How the fuck are the Forsaken considered "morally gray?"
LOL if you were the forsaken you'd be totally gay
>>638377582Wow writers are hacks
>>638377582Necromancy and mass murder are ok but homophobia and racism isn't
>>638377582because wow players are such BABIES they can't handle playing an evil race within an evil faction so now everyone is, at worst, morally gray, the rest are a bunch of "noble savages".God how I miss the horde from WC1/WC2
>>638377815I like the part where the blood elves aligned themselves with the forsaken.
Why do people want to play as rotten vermin?
>>638378591because its fun
>>638377996Vengeance for Greymane, kill every forsaken on sight, all are guilty for their crime of existenceIf the wow team had any spine at all the real plot right now would be the Gilneans reclaiming their rightful land and kicking the forsaken while they're down
>>638377996According to the tenets of the globohomo religion racism is the ultimate sin. Can't have the economic underclass getting the idea that they are better than anyone. They must know their place and life in constant shame.
>>638377996>kills retail>kills every private server they touch>but racism is bad OKAY?
>>638378748Imagine a Gilneas ingame, so I could park there my worgen character.It would be a glorious capital.
>>638377996They may bury humans alive in their plague fieldsThey may feed POWs experimental concoctions that make them explode o turn into mindless ghoulsThey made bring people back from the dead against their willBut the forsaken will NEVER be racists and always support the lgtbbq
>>638378839Is it really that hard to ban chinese vpn’s?
>>638378748if the WoW team had any spine at all undead would be their own faction with undead models of all the races and would be the sickest nastiest and baddest dudes around. Fuck the living, long live undeath!
>>638378867This was the gayest shit, it's world of WARcraft not happy best friends forever-craftGod I hate the modern wow team so fucking much, everything about Calia is so fucking dogshit and forced, she's the fucking opposite of absolutely anything a forsaken main wants from a leader
>>638379023Why ban paying customers? :^)
>>638377582The Forsaken, as a race, were never morally.grey. Theu were relatively sympathetic evil. I mean they were ran by a devil and a vengeful spirit. Individuals may be morally grey or even good, but the faction itself was always evil. It was the Horde's equivalent to the Night Elves, which in lore murdered anyone coming close to their territory and really hated every other race. They were suppose to be allied, but distant, which is why they started as neutral to the other races.The horde overall was suppose to be morally grey, which is defensible to some extent.
>>638377582They were never suppose to be. Their alliance with the horde is supposed to be one of convenience. the humans hate them because they see them as the scourge and the horde only wants them because they have no meaningful presence in the eastern kingdoms. They need each other too much for Thrall to give a shit about what fucked up shit they may be up to
>>638379085>undead if sylvanas died and Putress ran the forsakenLiving in the worst timeline
>>638379173Do you can have paying customers that wont kill your game :3
>>638378867What a fucking disgrace. Calia could have been an interesting character
>>638379460As my wife.
>>638379324Thrall being showed as le good guy was always funny.
>>638379286>tfw if garrosh was still alive the forsaken would have been invaded and ended up as a 3rd seperate faction>3 way world pvp between orcs, spooky skeleton and LotR wannabesWe missed out on kino, instead the game is basically just a monofaction at this point
The forsaken are forever held back by not being their own faction. Should have been horde, alliance and scourge.
>>638379513Thrall was good, but the Orcs were still largely corrupted. Frankly, the entirety of the Horde's morality stemmed from survival rather than any objective beliefs of good or evil.
>>638379552Orcs were in lotr too.
>>638379173>that one guy that got banned from Overwatch because he didn't pick the hero that his team wanted him to pick
>>638379513I mean by the standard of wanting your race not to be enslaved he's about the goodness character you could hope for in a faction of bloodthirsty savages squatting on rightful alliance clay
>>638379646That can’t be real.
>>638378839How did Chinese people playing the game (not even gold farmers in your pic) 'kill' retail and every private server they touch?
>>638379552Current lore is trash, and the killing of Voljin was disgraceful. I always wanted a 3rd faction centered around the murderous moronic night elves and forsaken, as both frankly hated all other races, but we never got it. Instead we got nonsense starting from legion. The Wrathgate was an incredibly good bit, but they blew it. And the night elves just got extremely boring. Frankly, Kel'thalas and Illidian shouldn't have been killed off either.
>>638377582ARE U AN IDIET???they were all raised against their will, their souls are literally just random normie npcs, they dont want to be evil they are just bound to do dark things against their will, when they break free they are just normie souls in fucked up bodies
>>638379634LotR orcs have nothing to do with wc orcs, whereas every alliance player was xXlegolasXx, gimlidwarf or gaandalf
>>638377582They mainly seek just "survival" at least early on.I'd say stiching bodies together to make an amalgamation that doesn't use their original souls is less evil than something like slavery.
>>638379762Play on chinese server Chiang. I don’t want to see your chicken scratches on my comfy european server in any game.
>>638379808If anything, Lotr elves look like belves more.
>>638379773There is no faction more likely to war with forsaken than night elves, one worships nature while the other is the antithesis of thatMaiev should have taken front and centre stage for the night elves and butchered every last orc in ashenvale, instead they keep having her get cucked by tyrande because bigotry is.. le bad!!!
>>638379762>suck ass at the game>cheat ramapantly (still manage to be bad somehow)>like 90% of them are completely unable to communicate in EnglishGee, I sure wonder.
>>638379916>light physically hurts themThis such a cool concept that I wish they would play with. The idea of undead priests putting themselves through torture to heal people is cool. There's also Sir Zeliek in Naxx that's so devoted to the light, his consciousness remains untouched and he can still wield the light despite being controlled by the lich king. Undead should have been able to be paladins. Seal of blood would have made perfect sense for an undead paladin
>>638379802So having experienced all that, why then do they invade innocents and raise them against THEIR will? It's almost like Sylvanas and her simps are hypocrites and psychopaths.
>>638378893things like this are funny now, but just like the POC orc lord of the rings memes, this will soon became reality instead of satire
>>638380040Belves came later and got their share of that, but D&D LotR larpers were basically all alliance players
>>638379286Just having forsaken start as unfriendly instead of neutral would've been much better. Make them butter up the orcs before they can accept most quests.
>>638379937Murdering people in order to stitch up their body parts into an abomination is worse than slavery according to non-retards.
>>638380083The orcs would've devestates the Nelfs of they didn't team up, plain and simple.
>>638380239The real answer from chad undead players is "yes."The answer from the cucked pathetic writing team is "UHHH UHHH WELL THEY WERE BEING CONTROLLED UHH UHHHHH.."
It's a game series about a race war. Taking the race war out of the game because it's offensive to your $0y religion is preposterous.
I WILL NEVER SERVE!
How would you instigate another War between Alliance and Horde in this current expansion or next one?Everything is just "redemption" now.I miss Metzen's "corruption".
>>638380194I mean that was their original lore, undead priests using holy magic were basically cast as masochists and it reflected in the spell and talent names a bit
>>638380194>This such a cool concept that I wish they would play with. The idea of undead priests putting themselves through torture to heal people is cool.glad to see that I'm not the only one that things this is a really cool concept that just gets wasted
>>638380194Undeads used to be tagged as undeads instead of humanoids in vanilla beta, so priests and paladins shat on them with shackle and exorcism.
>>638380490This is meaningless if it doesn't translate to gameplay.For example, have an undead priest lose hp every time they cast a spell and see how many players would pick such a combination.
>>638380607wow players are too casual to accept such cool and grueling levels of RP over optimization autism despite most being fucking awful at the game.
>>638377582They never used to be.Apothocary Keever says hello.
>>638380665Then it is meaningless, lore that doesn't affect game rules is pointless.Might as well remove it entirely from the game and make it a book.
>>638378591because being anti is fun
>>6383794481 Chinese botter makes more money for Blizzard than 100+ NA accounts.
>>638377582to not offend the snowflakes that make up the horde player base.
>>638380490>>638380607This. It would be a problem balance wise, but if undead priests had more potent healing spells at the cost of health it would be really interesting. They sort of had this with the original shadow word death in tbc. It dealt equal damage to you>>638380589They spoke common in the alpha as well so they could fuck with alliance players. I wish they did more with languages in the game too. I remember there being a glyph that made arcane brilliance give you the ability to understand all languages too. Just more flavor that was unfortunately removed
>>638380379Orcs only got into Ashenvale by chugging demon blood.They were helpless after killing Mannoroth and becoming dindus.
>>638380736yes anon stop being autistic we're saying its a cool concept but wasted on wow and its playerbase
>>638380424Everyone wakes up in a purple void nightmare-scape, everything in the past 2 expansions were just visions of madness and fever dreams and the player characters canonically lost to n'zothThe expansion is you fighting your way out of the shadow realms with a maguffin that only has enough juice to let one faction escape and face the old gods for round 2, lots of chances to build bitter hatred and backstabbing characters while also handing you an L for once, the only new character that wasn't made up is Bwonsamdi who continues to be a based sick cunt.>>638380379The entire horde war machine would have needed to come over, which means alliance backup would come over or take over other horde areas, all grounds for faction war that isn't just sylvanas being a retard
>>638378047>because wow players are such BABIES they can't handle playing an evil race within an evil factionI meanYou pick a faction called "THE HORDE"Made up of traditionally evil races - orcs, trolls, undead, ect. What are you expecting? You probably picked them because you wanna be the bad guy. But no, ever since WC3 the writers got it in their head that The Horde should somehow both be this massive, super threatening military juggernaut that forces the Alliance races to get their shit together or be wiped off the earth, but also should be these misunderstood morally gray underdogs who rape and kill and enslave people but "They're really sorry, guys!"
>>638380949And I am explaining why this is not a cool concept, because it cannot be integrated to the gameplay.
>>638377582And who are the "good guys" of Warcraft? Is the Alliance? Only the humans? Shall we pull the laundry list of the war crimes they're guilty of?
>>638381095How are trolls evil, they are the native residents of Azeroth, humans and orcs are foreigners.
>>638381095If Garrosh was written to be a warmongering orc supremacist without terminal brain damage so they could kill him off for fucking with old God shit he probably would have been a lot more popular at the time instead of just hindsightAt least he managed to escape the game for good while giving everyone the middle finger
>>638381209I said "Traditionally evil" anon. In Warcraft I know they do their own thing but in most fantasy stories (Except Discworld, off the top of my head) they're monsters at worst and dicks at best.
>>638381104it can be, its just wow playerbase is filled with faggots that care more about optimizing the fun out of things than having an actual mmo experience like anything that came before it.
>>638381195You can't be guilty of war crimes when killing orcs is justice and not a crime you filthy greenskin apologist
>>638381209Niggers and Jews are natives to Earth anon. Trolls are the former. Never developed a higher level of intelligence. Annoying. Does a bunch of weird voodoo shit. And go out of their way to fuck over the races of higher intellect because they didn't get handouts. They actively sided with foreign demon blooded warmongers over their own descendants (elves). Orcs also literally have no excuse for doing what they did. No one was threatening to wipe them out when they first landed, they were the ones who struck first. Did the Dwarves and Humans all of a sudden start mass murdering Elves and Trolls when they gained the curse of flesh? No, they just went about their days and started a community, fostering peace.
>>638380424Unironically just reset the timeline. There's no way to redeem it. They could easily weave it into the Dragonflight storyline by involving the bronze/infinite dragons. Hell, they could even have it so you go back and fight Deathwing or some shit, preventing Cata classic from happening because no one wants to play it. Then have retail and classic players move into classic+ or Wow 2 or some shit, and start the story over from the lich king.Too bad blizzard is incompetent, so it would just end up being a disaster anyway
>>638381195name 5 that come close to the shit the orcs and forsaken pulled
>>638381549>Niggers and Jews are natives to Earth>he fell for the aryan aliens psyop
>>638381549There is a lot to unpack here.Trolls have Zandalar, they were paladins before humans were created.They fought against the void.What you see now is their destroyed civilisation, barring Zandalar of course.Humans started killing trolls to steal their forests and build their kingdoms.Human settlements are built on troll lands.I agree about the invading orcs, they had no excuse.But the native orcs of Draenor didn't do anything wrong before being tempted by the burning legion.
>the forsaken exterminate all Dalaran citizens left in EK>2 years later they're accepted into new Dalaran, no questions asked
>>638381384>killing orcs is justice and not a crimebased
>>638381827It's not a crime to kill things that aren't people, wipe out all savage troll abominations from azeroth
>>638381827A whole lot of words to describe a bunch of non-canon retcon heavy shitshlop written by a female after all the original writers and devs left.
>>638377582Why the fuck did blizzard make Sylvanas into an annoying Mcguffin when she could have stuck to her own shit?
>>638381549HOW ARE THE BEAUTIFUL ELVES DESCENDED FROM UGLY TROLLS WITH THEIR KIKE NOSE AND TUSKS THE LORE MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER HELLO??
>>638381995Well this is the current lore, what can I do.
>>638381827>they dindu nuffinnigger
>>638381894Tor ilisar'thera'nal! Justice will be done!
>>638378893hehe that`s le funny
>>638382087Ignore it and write your own headcanpn, anything you come up with will make more sense than blizzard writing because you actually played the game
>>638382069They literally drank the blood of a titan, it helped them evolve.Also, night elves aren't exactly beautiful.They are closer to trolls than let's say blood elves who are human like.>>638382103They were a shamanistic society, caring about their own struggles and fighting against the ogres.Then the Draenei arrived, and with them the demons.Orcs were too naive to understand what was happening.
>>638378229Purely because of sylvanas. They had connections
The real question one should be asking is why aren't Tauren wives a thing yet?
>>638382282>Also, night elves aren't exactly beautiful.HERESY THEYRE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL AND FAIREST IN ALL OF AZEROTH
>>638382226It's sad how true this is. I bet I have more quests and storylines memorized from 19 years of playing the game than almost any writer at blizzard save for a few oldies that stuck around.
>>638382508That's one uncanny foot.t. footfag
>>638382508When will 3d models have actually good feet? Where is the arch? Where is the detail? Why is it just a flat surface with a flat color and nothing else?
>>638380239BECAUSE THEY WERE RAISED BY DARK MAGIC THAT CAN CORRUPT THEM OVER TIME THEY ARE CONSTANTLY FIHTING THEIR INSTINCTS TO DEVOUR THINGS LIKE THEY WERE RAISED TO DOHELLO???? ARE U DAFT???
>>638381195The good guys are the Alliance, Tauren, Darkspear Trolls and Frostwolf Orcs pretty much. Blizzard refuses to give any sort of "morally grey" to the alliance because players are boring and want to Tolkien Larp. Anytime you have bad humans it's some sort of already despised nobility or shit like Vancleef where they're justified.With Dwarves they literally have an edgelord sub race to put evil elements into, same with gnomes(because all the bad ones stayed in Gnomer)Nigh Elves were evil in the past, all the still living bad ones got turned into snakes. Draenei have their Manari but that shouldn't count because they're supposed to be the special "Eredar that didn't become demons". Blizzard had a chance for some moral grey shit with the Akunai priests but dropped the ball in BC.
>>638382575I dont think there's even oldies still working on wow at this point, anyone worth their salt was poached by riot and the rest would have retired by now, there's no hope for the game at this point because it's run by liberal arts students and marketers being bossed around by suits>>638382639Cope
>>638381995You're not wrong but also sort of wrong. That stuff was written in the WoW Chronicles while some of the old guard was still there (Except maybe the Troll Paladins?)Blizzard had also implied Trolls were descendants of elves since like WC III where they described them as a elven and that shit was implied as early as Cata if not earlier with Archeology skill having artifacts that show shadow trolls beginning to worship Elune.All that shit about Zandalar being the Troll Master race has been in the lore since forever, the now non-canon RPG books talk about they made a force field to survive the sundering and everything.
>>638381549>Niggers and Jews are natives to Earth anonThat's your opinion
>>638382668Calm down man, everybody was discussing this calmly
>>638379286>>638377582The forsaken have no reason to have regards for life, since they are dead themselves. So for things that come across as abominable to other races are basically whatever for them. Killing people so they can raise them as dead and bolster their forces, expanding their territory etc are things they do for survival.From the perspective of the living, they are very evil, but the forsaken probably only see themselves as doing what is natural for the situation they find themselves in.
>>638383005Zandalar's existence and them being the progenitors of Elves makes sense and is fine. The "we wuz kangz fitein dem void lordz n shieeet, light is gang shadow is op" is cringe hack writing.
>>638383119That would have been a good way to write it but the Cata writers were retards and pinned it mostly on Sylvanas being a cunt.
>>638383119>The forsaken have no reason to have regards for life, since they are dead themselves. Don't they have lingering human feelings and emotions or something? If so that's enough reason to have regard for life, at least to the extent it might affect their living loved ones
>>638383119Behead all forsaken, kick a forsaken down the stairs, break a forsakens bones, toss a forsakens eyes into a woodchipper, liquify forsaken, tear off a forsakens limbs to play catch with, burn a forsakens house down, set forsaken abominations on fire, feed forsaken to a live volcano, capsize forsaken in the maelstrom, break a forsakens fingers, kill all forsaken
>>638383465Retcons make it hard to keep track of but their emotions are suppressed last I checked. They can only really feel pain and suffering and don't really experience joy, at least from whatever shit described their state I last read. This is probably outdated though since I remember people citing this during cata when the "Death to Sylvanas" fags on the forums were citing how their state of existence is so shit Sylvanas making more of them is a war crime.
The Undead starting areas were so fucking comfy way back when I first played.
>>638383346To be fair, you can't have Sylvanas not be a cunt after the Wrathgate and ICC. She was making committing warcrimes and then tried to sudoku her way out of any responsibility from the crimes she caused and from leading her people. The true Undead are the Undead who joined the Korkron under Garrosh. Any of the ones who stuck by Sylvanas after that are stupid.
>>638383774>the true undead are the ones that betrayed their people to side with the greenskinslmao
If there truly was no racism in WoW Greymane would be standing in for Anduin instead of Turalshit, Greymane gave everything for the alliance and his best friend got disenchanted by gul'dan
>>638383303They were already kind of we wuz kangzing before Blizzard decided base them off of Wakanda. It was pretty much a circumstantial thing, they already had a negro-adjacent master race in the lore, might as well reference the then popular negro fantasy of the time.The first Zandalar in the Wow had a priest mob so they already had a means to say trolls could use the light. People only hate that because the Light was a big mystery religion Force rip off exclusive to humans and people expected more mystique than Vrykul ancestors of Ara'thor humans worshiping an Ulduar Guardian who embodied the Holy Light. But like, you could argue that was already ruined by the Wind Chimes from BC.
>>638382136Don't you have stormwind streets to clean, elf wagie.
>>638379552If Garrosh was dumb enough to try and genocide the forsaken they would have hired the goblins he canonically hires in Warlords of Draenor and started Stratholming six million orcs in Orgrimmar. This isn't headcanon, the new timelines update makes it clear if the Horde attacked the undead they would have solo'd both factions and like 90% of Azeroth.
>>638384140Realistically wouldn't Azarothians still have a slight resentment towards Gilneans due to the whole isolation shit?Stormwind sucked Lordaeron's cock like every other human kingdom so it makes sense a stand in regent would be Turl.
>>638384170I thought Trolls, like Undead, had lore appropriate reasons for Shadow Priests, because they were less priestly and more voodoo-y and used the power of the Loa to gain mastery over death, instead of "the light" or "elune"?
They're moral beingsAnd their skin is greyThus morally grey
>>638384324What is the basis of this claim? Is it just the fact that they can revive fallen enemies and they aren't afraid to just plague everything? Is the Horde holding the Forsaken back with morals when they could have slaughtered all the Alliance dogs already?
>>638383774Wrathgate was all V'Mathas and Putris. Yeah I'm ignoring the fact Dreadlords are J'lor agents because fuck shadowlands.The Forsaken are edgelords and having a slight supremacy tone with a number of them being truly evil was always fine. The real issue was Sylvanas being sent to super-hell and given an annoying rage bait plot strand for like 5 expansions.The Forsaken efforts should have been about finding a cure.
>>638384194Ashenvale is rightful elven clay, your time is short orc!
Home.....Fuck Cata for ruining it.
>>638378229I mean the forsaken were the ones who helped them secure the ghostlands.
>>638384324>This isn't headcanon, the new timelines update makes it clear if the Horde attacked the undead they would have solo'd both factions and like 90% of Azeroth.Their entire faction gets solo’d by the Argent Crusade if they ever act that retarded. As much as Blizzard tries to forget it, Paladins hard counter undead and Sylvanas doesn’t have a tenth of the power that the Lich King had.
>>638380424>horde is disbanded because it doesnt need to exist anymore>horde factions sort of keep in touch but do their own thing now>it wasnt anything official, everyone just drifted away>lightforged draenei from other dimension were watching and waiting for this>proceed to vaporize every horde capitol at once>alliance make controversial decision to not do anything because turalyon does not disagree nor does genn greymane>horde loses 90% of its population>they are a proper underdog again>wage war on lightforged which means alliance has to step in to defend their allies>scarlet crusade also return to power>worship lightforged as angels, subvert and attack the alliance from within
>>638384582Shadowlands is such a crock of shit anyways.>we have an other dimension death world>but it's only really for azeroth, even though other planets also have life>also even though dreadlords are ultimate demonic beings of deception that work for a titan that traverses galaxies, and we have our own death realm just for us demons, we actually are all just little errand bitch bois for the azeroth death realm satanWhat the fuck is this convoluted ass writing? The only dreadlord that could even have an inkling of being an agent for the Jailor would be Mal'Ganis as he played an integral role in Arthas' story. And even then, being a dreadlord, he could have been working against the Jailor for his own nefarious purposes. But no, they are all just little cuckold bitch bois for Papa Santana.
>>638384324They're welcome to try, it would have been way more entertaining than the absolute slop we got so they had an excuse to run out garrosh so they could claim a victory against 'bigotry'>>638384354At this point the 3rd war is so far back and gilneas has been helping the alliance for years so I doubt it, realistically people would be racist as fuck and say no to a "non-human" as regent on the throne, but blizzard claim there's no racism in WoW so....
>>638384374That has more to do with the Darkspear making use of shadow magic deliberately. Frost trolls and forest trolls for example have hexes but it's nowhere near as elaborate as shadow hunters, witch doctors, etc.
>>638384374Blizzard originally had undead priests be exclusively Spriests but decided it didn't work for balance reasons. They eventually came up with the concept that an undead can use the light but at the cost of extreme pain (saying they already did it with Sir Zelek of the 4 horsemen so it's canon).With trolls the loa lore was a big mystery for a bit because loa weren't properly explained until Chronicles simplified it so that Loa were anything trolls worshiped (Mostly Wild Gods, sometimes ascended dead trolls, other shit).Once Chronicles was out blizzard basically divided the forces of magic into distinct categories, so the possibility of other powers became less apparent. The only exclusion to this was Elune, because Night Elf Fans loved the idea that she was something that wasn't like any other cosmic being in the lore, not a titan, Wild God, Old god or anything even seen (Because Knaak wrote her as an actual cosmic level deity)
>>638384762So, the horde just instantly lose? There wouldn't be much of war in that case with 90% of each of their separate populations gone.
>>638384468>What is the basis of this claim?The update he mentionedThe Forsaken become the new Scourge in an alternate timeline where Garrosh Garroshes too hard at them and they blight Azeroth
>>638377582The fact that every initial race in the Horde tries to vouch for them is fucking hilarious. They are notoriously evil and sadistic and derive pleasure from inflicting pain on others despite the fact that their pleasure centers have likely rotted away. Undercity is like something out of a body horror snuff film but gets handwaved mainly because of Warcrafts cartoonish artstyle. The Horde really should have been Orcs, Tauren, Trolls and Goblins with Ogres coming in TBC. You have every parallel niche filled out to the Alliance and every Horde race dating back to WC1 thats in the game.
>>638384905They've periodically lost 90% of their population for decades.
>>638384905It's an MMO bro. Like 90% of nelfs already got burned in their tree but it doesn't affect the story beyond melodrama and certainly doesn't affect gameplay.
>>638379702Real as a heart attack. The way the report system is set up if you get enough reports you're auto-banned for the reason the reports say.
>>638384717see >>638384993Forsaken really were just held back by Horde treatise and moralizing
>>638384765Shadowlands was obviously a repruposed Sargeras vs the titan pantheon storyline. Drop the afterlife shit, put Sargeras instead of J'luur and the titans instead of the progenitors and everything becomes crystal clear.Just a gigantic mess
>>638384905Guerilla tactics are generally pretty effective, the big problem is that blizzard decided canonically every last rank and file soldier for both factions died in the 4th war to the point they were ready to start conscripting random citizens to the front lines, all so sylvanas could have her epic MERELY PRETENDING plotline
>>638384993Ah, I haven't kept up with retoilet since I quit
>>638385083>repruposedthey pulled the entirety of that shit out of their ass. the only part of WoW that has been according to the OG script since cata is Legion but that was supposed to be the finale, they just pulled it early because they were afraid the game was dying.
>>638384765They do imply at least that the Dread Lords aren't loyal to J'lor and are only in it for Denathrius. I get the general idea is that the Dreadlords were used to transfer the Crown and Frostmourne to Azeroth to sow a bunch of death for J'lor but then how does Ner'zhul or Arthas being free interfere with that plan? Shit doesn't make any sense.
>>638385064>The Horde really should have been Orcs, Tauren, Trolls and Goblins with Ogres coming in TBCfucking this. With blood elves going to alliance in tbc. I cant believe ogres still aren't playable after all these years. Is it because there are no female models? How hard is it to slap a pair of tits on an ogre? they were able to make female cows and trolls.
>>638384324>if the Horde attacked the undead they would have solo'd both factions and like 90% of Azeroththis makes it extra funny they gave nelves a yas queen moment in BFA
>>638385354it's because armor is mostly painted on. gotta share skeletons and general shape.
>>638385212Never understood why we didn't raid Sargeras.
>>638385412because the hacks were already in charge by the time Legion was made. it was all flash.
>>638385212They weren't wrong, the big problem with blizzard is their sheer arroganceI've never seen a company talk down to their playerbase more than blizzard does, they could have fixed all of legions problems with a single balance patch preventing the huge grind on your artifact weapon and giving legendary tokens as drops instead of cucking you with RNG on which one you gotBut instead they shit in players mouths and tell them their opinion is worthless every single time despite this being clear feedback from beta
>>638385083God I'm so fucking glad that Legion was my last expansion. Sure it had it's problems, but the raids and M+ was so kino that I couldn't hate it. I also liked playing my rogue a lot, the little rogue only content was pretty fun. Mage tower was also literally a 10/10 idea and I'm pissed they haven't brought anything back like it since. BFA came around, I was all ready to dominate it like my cutting edge guild did in Legion. And then it was so fucking trash. The zones looked cool, but played badly. The questing sucked. The grinds were awful. Islands fucking christ. Forced personal loot in raid, even in guild raids killed my entire guild's passion for raiding. I didn't even make it to Mythic Uldir. I quit playing the week Uldir came out. We got AotC and I said "yep, that raid was fucking shit" and I just stopped. I couldn't bring myself to grind all those garbage ass systems and azerite bullshit for shitty raids. In Legion, the grind sucked too I'll admit, but once you maxed your weapon you didn't have to focus on it too much and the raids more than made up for it. God fuck I hated BFA so much. Shadowlands was the first expansion I never bought. Dragonflight is the second. It's so sad. I played this game for like 16+ years, just before 2008. Over half my life. I played private servers whenever I wasn't having fun in mop and wod. I played classic for a bit, but then they fucked that up too. Fuck. I'm drunk
>>638385412Because Sargeras is the size of a planet. Deathwing is supposed to be the size of Godzilla in lore yet his size was condensed down and he wasnt even a raid boss.
>>638385519idk I guess you could argue Legion bought them a few more years but I think they would have coasted just the same if they kept that in the pocket. their biggest screw up was deciding war was bad in their pure war expansion. that sealed the deal.
>>638385410Ogres would be too big, was the dev excuse I last heard, mainly pointing to Tauren having trouble with certain doorways as an example of the problems with implementing the race.
>>638379808>LotR orcs have nothing to do with wc orcsThey are extremely different but it's kind of funny when you consider that they both were based on pre islam turks and mongols
>>638385567You aren't alone, I spent so much of my life in this game it lives rent fucking free in my head and I want to choke the moron suits in charge
>>638385519Legion did also have a timegating problem. Remember when broken shore launched and it was like 8 weeks straight of timegated content. Then it happened again when we went to Argus. I'll admit, Legion wasn't perfect, but it's good content was really really good. >>638385567
>the entire thread
>>638385609>pure war expacLiterally a retread of MoP, people call it the Kung fu panda expac but every single patch was about the faction war and pandas were irrelevant
>>638385593Oh please, like lore size was a valid reason not to do something to those hacks
>>638384667I have a love/hate relationship with Cata zone changes. On one hand Cata mostly fixed questing in vanilla zones as it was fucking awful before due to numerous zones being half finished questwise .On the other hand some zones like thousand needles being changed + flying were strictly negatives. Imo it was cool to see zones like EPL/EPL start to heal from the plague.
>>638384762>>horde loses 90% of its populationU sure?
>>638385658Pigmy ogers then
>>638383708I thought they were always "experiences most emotions in a repressed way" race
>>638385212I actually believe there was an outline for shadowlands, mostly because by WotlK you could see blizzard attempting to disassociate the Scourge from the Burning Legion. It was always kind of a stupid connection, the LK should have originated as some ancient death god evil or something, just not what J'lor ended up being.
>>638385674Time gating has always been a thing in WoW so I don't really care, I didn't get cucked on legendaries myself but other people were literally denied raid spots on dps checks like Krosus because they didn't have the right onesAnd blizzard learned absolutely nothing and somehow managed to make it even MORE grindy in shadowlands
>>638377582Because one of the main writers is a huge simp faggot who jerks off to Sylvanass
>>638385753that was before WoD almost killed them for real tho. then they busted out Legion as a last resort and gained a bit of steam (even though Legion was fucked too it has flash and grandiosity) and immediately fucked it up by having the horde burn the tree then deciding it was a bad thing. everything up through the burning was great. everything after was a travesty.
>>638385807Remember when dark iron dwarves had a good passive but it had to get nerfed? All the while boss fights are made around making sure blood elves passive will be able to skip mechanics in every raid.
>>638385609I love how not only did BFA say war was bad with the story, but the war content also sucked. PvP was at it's worst and there was no PvP vendor, like what the fuck lmao? But then PvP islands had issues too and also IIRC they weren't even out at first. Warfronts were so mind numbing that most players afked and still the game would finish.It's like in both story and gameplay the new tranny hires were saying "WAR IS BAD MMKAY?"
>>638379762They blatantly hack. PVP, for example, has been riddled with kickbots and all sorts of other scummy shit since the chinks migrated.Also you're fuckin delusional if you don't think that it opened the floodgates for chink bot farmers to destroy the economy.Chinks destroy economies wherever they go. It's a result of their communist roots.
>>638385768Horde player detected, all starting alliance zones in cata were butchered beyond beliefAzshara became a giant goblin zone full of cool goblin shit, Westfall became a fucking CSI meme the whole way through, redrisge became a linear fucking Rambo knockoff, absolutely RUINED.
>>638385871Sylvanas bitches about how she can't feel happiness, only pain or misery and or neutrality.
>each expansion takes place over a year or less somehow>there was nothing allowing the lore to skip ahead five, ten, even twenty years to allow some time to pass in Universe>supposed to just believe that most of the population of each race isn't completely decimated at this point and there's plenty of people for an army>even though WoW capitals are supposed to have fairly low populations, roughly 10-20k people in places like Stormwind in the loreProbably always been my biggest gripe.
>>638385991>WarfrontsGod, I had forgotten that fucking embarrassment
>>638386060those were always good desu.
>>638385709that was my taurenit's funny seeing that pic get posted years later
>>638385991It was such a fucking preachy shitpile of an expansion. God FUCKING DAMNIT I HATE WHAT THEY DID TO MY GAME
>>638385709>>638386209This made me chortle
Anduin impregnating every human, Draenei, Night Elf, Void Elf, Dwarf, Dark Iron Dwarf, and Kul Tiran woman on Azeroth.
>>638385768>EPL gets turned into "follow da caravan guis!" the whole way through Cata questing philosophy has permanently scarred the game all they had to do was add 1 or 2 more quest hubs to zones that were missing them not send you on a neverending theme park ride with guardrails everywhere
>>638386303>Anduin>womenI would bet money he comes back a homo. That's why they kept Wrathion from being the Aspect.
>>638381827Inside this retcon... I sense... the foreboding nature of... CORRUPTION!
For you legion/bfa fags, explain the sword. How did that not completely destroy azeroth or at least cause world ending apocalypse levels of shit to happen? That did way more damage than deathwing ever could have done. A meteor not even 1/20th of it's size would cause enough debris in the atmosphere to cause a second ice age, let alone the sword literally fucking stabbing almost completely through the planet's core.
>>638385935That was probably one of the weirdest things. Danuser was a waifufag for Sylvanas, who to be fair was pretty Waifu tier in TFT. However it seemed like the other C-devs were embodying the asshurt over Cata Sylvanas because they kept ramping up reasons to kill her.Horrible shit like Calia returning as a ruler was something those asshurt fags wanted back in Cata, so clearly they were anti-forsaken in terms of writing.But then Danuser was holding that back with his waifufagism. I think the guy is a faggot but the people who kept perpetuating the evil forsaken plotlines are also to blame for the entire mess. None of it needed to happen. Sylvanas could have been a much less spotlighted character and things would have worked better.
>>638381827>But the native orcs of Draenor didn't do anything wrong before being tempted by the burning legion.Don't forget that the demons were lured in by the dr*nei nogs in the first place
>>638386368>kill off the only good protoss character left at the very start of the protoss campaignWhat the fuck were they thinking
>>638385768Fuck cata. It killed so much cool shit from vanilla.>og Zul'gurub and Zul'aman gone along with all their loot and factions>vanilla class weapons like the hunter bow and benediction gone>Deadmines and shadowfang keep "revamped" (aka ruined)The only interesting thing is seeing progression in areas like you said. They should have that instancing bronze dragon npc to revert the world, dungeons and raids to vanilla. I don't give a flying fuck if you start seeing tier 3 warriors with corrupted ashbringer everywhere. Fuck you and your fomo bullshit
>>638386082Keep in mind that the orcs in Kalimdor around WC3 are supposed to number less than the survivors of Quel'thalas. And that the tauren and Darkspear are singular tribes. And the Forsaken are supposed to be vastly outnumbered by the mindless Scourge still in Lordaeron. And that Stormwind is a single human kingdom recovering from being razed.It's frankly baffling that any race besides night elves and dwarves can field any armies. There's barely been any time for a full generation to be grown from Warcraft 3 to what Blizzard acts like the current timeline is. But everybody keeps pulling fleets and massive armies out of their assholes.
>>638385984>Remember when dark iron dwarves had a good passive but it had to get nerfed?Pretty sure you mean Zandalari
>>638377582They aren't, they've always been mask off retard evil and their inclusion was added solely so Horde players would have coombait in Sylvanas and because the devs really wanted to wank off the Scourge but couldn't stretch lore that much to shove them in.
>>638386359>anduin is cauitous friends with wrathion, still doesn't completely trust him>everyone goes into "DEY BE BUTTHUMPING LOVEBOYS AAAAAWWWWWW!!!" modeYou people make me sick.
>>638386495The new Zul'aman wasn't bad desu, the problem was not fucking following through with it afterwards
>>638386409Every single player artifact gets depowered to deactivate the swordThe sword almost killing the planet is the entire underlying plot of BfA
>>638378893>Meanwhile, Alliance has canon sexism and racism in its groups
>>638386424Danuser is in the same tier as fags like Mac Walters. They were around when their studio was getting recognition, then when the big names gaining said recognition started leaving they gained positions of power. In that regard, he's one of the better ones. Still C-tier but at least he's not some uppity newfag.
>>638386424I think it was always sort of fated to happen just because the nature of the undead, but in a good story of a single player game where you don't need to keep races around, I think the real story ends with the forsaken being removed. Like if they ever did a WC4. The Forsaken's role was always as this sort of thing that was only in an alliance with the Horde for practicality and their own goals, rather than being in some sort of friendship like Tauren and Orcs. So many people even in the Horde didn't like them and only tolerated them. Pretty sure they also mostly kept to themselves instead of assimilating with Orcs like they do in WoW. Them having to be a force that is under constant watch even by their own allies because of their sheer power of being able to create more of an army and plague shit means it was eventually going to come to a head where the forsaken end up doing some evil shit that even the Horde can't abide by.I think they just did it in the most stupid way possible making it all about sylvanas.
blizz needs to revert their art direction to their vanilla/tbc era and just revamp their texture quality to what they've done in BFA. the improvements in the latest dragqueen flop expac has some questing improvements and nice zone changes, save for the faggotry characters and questing in it. i like the big zone as well - azure span is about 3-4 times larger than ewlyn forest. however the mobs/characters in there feels like some women's gay fatnasty book and women should be further milked as a punishment.
>>638386623I just want to know what kind of fucking power is keeping azeroth from not exploding.
>>638384667>most of the quests are people just dealing with a new unlife they never asked for and for you to put down scourge threats that are former friends and allies>some talk about the horrors of their undead bodies and just want whatever little comfort they can get and do what their body allows them to do>others accept their lot and go full evil, knowing the alliance wasn't going to accept them back anyways so might as well experiment on them to figure out the plague and a way to recreate it/possibly find a cure>a few of their allies such as a few Tauren are trying to find ways to help them but are otherwise understandably creeped out by themThe run down town aesthetic was so much better than big apothecary towns. Really the whole gloomy feeling their lore had always made me enjoy leveling a new lock or rogue.
>>638386409lol that was at the end of an expansion, you cant expect the writing team for the next expansion to care about what the other team did :^)
>>638386832that was a plot point until Cata. then they just had garrosh act like a hot head while sylvanas twirled her mustache.
>>638386846I agree but we both know this will never ever happenEverything looks like riot shit now except coom isn't allowed
>>638385991>It's like in both story and gameplay the new tranny hires were saying "WAR IS BAD MMKAY?"Nah devs were saying different "we see that Alliance are pussies and don't see reason to invent new forms of PvP"
>>638380424>Scrap wow completely>Develop new engine that can take advantage of modern hardware properly so my $1500 computer doesn't run the game at 30 fps>Fire all blizzard staff and replace them with normal people that like wow>Wow 2 starts right after Warcraft 3's founding of durotar campaign
>>638379773Illidan wasn't killed off they just left him on a ship in space. The issue is all the actual night elf characters weren't allowed to be part of the alliance.
>>638386891it has a soul but now that there's pantheons for every cosmic force who the fuck knows what the soul is for
>>638386891The literal titan soul inside of it? lmaoThis was the entire underlying story of BfA, the faction war was just filler garbage on top
>>638385768I have nothing but hate for cata changesQuest rewards went from related to their story to generic random greens so everyone gets something.Everything extremely railroaded, no discovering quests off the beaten path or visiting new areas to see what's there.Zones just fucked. They had the tech, they could have been restored after you did quests there, it would have been great. No, you get impassable chasms in the barrens, volcano in ashenvale, holes in westfall, chunk taken out of stranglethorn that'll just be there forever to ruin the aesthetics and make no sense to anyone who started playing after Cata.Quality of the writing? Even the biggest wow shills can't defend things like thrall's wedding or Uldum.
>>638386945Well yeah, I think it's because WoW by nature is an MMO and you can't just say "okay, no more undead players now!" and they didn't have the balls to make undead their own faction. So we got cartoon villain sylvanas.
>>638387076sylvanas was never cartoony when dealing with thrall. just garrosh. it's actually mentioned in the books garrosh had undercity under watch but, ya know, not shown or mentioned in game.
>>638386593Zul'aman was decent because it didn't change much. New zg is shit and missing half the bosses. They did the same thing with Scholomance. They axed most of the bosses and made it a linear hallway. That was my favorite dungeon too
>>638386960too much riot, need to revert it. new age artists at blizz also need a beating as well. beatings will continue until morale improves. also make all bloodelves and be-adjacent males to look like warhammer's high elves in Warhammer online, and turn all blood-elves females into bimbo elves..yeah...i think that would be kino
>>638387058>the entire 2nd half of Uldum is just a DOGSHIT Indiana Jones movieIHATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT
>>638381725truth, it's not like they feel any shame anyway. Just reset the timeline, say it was all a dream like the other anon suggested. It's not like a WoW lifer is going to complain. Rub it in their faces, say that nobody could have possibly believed such a ridiculous story about the afterlife etc.
>>638387160No blood elves were fine as crack addicted primadonna rock stars (which they took away), everything else yeah
>>638387151It was shown and mentioned, the abomination guards were replaced with Garrosh's personal orc guards from Cataclysm through Mists.
>>638381095>ever since WC3 the writers got it in their headI'd argue they were still rolling with the "evil" theme of the Horde well into even TBC. When the Blood Elves were first introduced they had slaves, mind controlled the general populace, were mana crack addicts and were vain, ruthless, and racist. Somewhere along the the line though Blizzard dropped all pretenses and stripped every race of the Horde of their uniqueness. That's when they really started leaning into that noble savage "misunderstood" characterization.
>>638377582Because they are just reanimated corpses with free will and all fear/disgust around death and decay removed. They are literally just a population of humans without laws. I don't think there are even laws in the under city. They just hangout and if you fuck around you find out. >>638386424Sylvanas was the only good horde leader lol. She was plot relevant to things in azeroth, but not the main character like thrall. As soon as they made her the main character she became terrible. She should have done more warcrimes though, its one of the only WAR things that happens in that game.
>>638387413yeah on second thought the book part was actually a retelling of baine shit from in-game so it had to be there.
>>638386504Basically. Even if you pretend NPCs like the chef and weapon merchant can put on footman armor, there still wouldn't be enough. And both sides have armies that are constantly dying in cinematics. Really, you can tell nobody in old Blizzard had an idea on population sizes for any of the races. They didn't want too much to make the world more dangerous, but put in too few so that realistically there shouldn't be much fighters left at all, adventurers be damned. Honestly makes you wonder why the Burning Legion with an infinite army would ever have troubles when a fraction of their army would beat the population size of all of Azeroth ten times over.
>>638387436Yeah I miss when blood elves basically just didn't give a fuck>light magic? Lmao we have some in our basement
>>638387436more "savage" races than evil, including blood elves. but yes they only leaned hard into the noble part across the board after thrall went green jesus.
>>638387667Yep cata fucking sucked, the only good thing that came of it was firelands
>>638387706now that I'm thinking about it it's straight up backwards too. thrall was always trying to be a noble savage surrounded by bloodthirsty cutthroats but then under garrosh, who could have directed that type fine, everyone decides to act posh. it's crazy.
>>638387667>>638387706Niggas what, the whole noble savage thing has been consistent since WC3
>>638387859it was literally just thrall. he tried but everyone around him just kinda reverted back to savagery when he wasn't around.
>>638387510>>638387667Which is a shame because for both the Forsaken and the Blood Elves, they didn't give a shit about the Horde proper, they only joined for mutual protection. It was an opportunistic alliance and everyone knew it. If they expanded on that idea we could have seen a lot of interesting development.
>>638387859Only with Tauren and the frostwolf, all the other orcs were bloodthirsty retards and that's fine
>>638387859To a degree, but it was usually only small parts of the Horde as a whole instead of what they eventually went with in later WoW. That's the difference.
>>638387925Yeah, they could have easily written the story into player characters becoming mercenaries while the greater powers of northern eastern kingdoms became their own thing
>>638387997>>638388012the reason they went to the horde instead of doing that is because the night elves started invading them, and the forsaken helped them out. that meant the alliance would be coming, so they clicked up with the other major power.
>have played on and off since vanilla>Have always and will always prefer Alliance to Horde>Every. Single. Friend. Plays Horde exclusivelyI JUST WANT TO PLAY A CHILL DWARF AND HANG OUT IN STORMWIND OR IRON FORGET AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>638388084Yeah but moving the story forward they could have broken off again so you could have the sex, drugs and rock and roll faction vs noble savages vs LotR fanboys at least storywise and just let players be mercenaries or whatever
>>638387925Forsaken and blood elves had interesting backgrounds. I enjoyed the forsaken beginning zone, everyone was just struggling to survive and make ends meet and doing whatever is necessary. their evilness is great as well. even the dark iron dwarves, have no idea why they're friendly with the alliance when they've been at war with alliance for years and got their king killed. should be pissed off even if the queen wants peace. should be another pain point and lead to some internal civil war/war crimes, just like the worgen would do to the forsaken because..it's only human to be flawed. current wow is too sanitized.
>>638387925Yeah I liked how the blood elves and undead were friends in tbc. They both didn't give a shit about doing dirty deeds. They both cared way more about themselves than the horde. And they both had a hate boner for the scourge. It really fit the Horde as a band misfits vibe.
>>638388218As a purist worgen player I was so fucking salty to learn that there was more storyline in silver pine but it was all from the undead perspectiveI want nothing more than to murder every undead and reclaim Gilneas
>>638388175the alliance would still be after them. they'd just be weaker. belfs were just chilling until the nelfs started acting up.
>>638388084The Night Elves never invaded them, but they were actively sabotaging their infrastructure and sending reconnaissance units, and the Alliance were sending spies. The main reason they joined though was primarily because of the scourge. It was still a large threat at the time.
>>638378047Its not that they are evil. Its just that there is no reason for any race to ever be allied with them. Whether they want to or not, they have to corrupt nature to exist and every race that ever existed has to jump through hurdles just to coexist with them.
>>638388363It would make for interesting 3 way conflict and keep things interesting
>>638388441the forsaken helped them reconquista the ghostlands. nelf niggers just couldn't leave well enough alone just like the snide nightborne commentary.
>>638388337>no face value alliance between horde and alliance>worgen and forsaken takes advantage of this situation and has a bunch of assassination assignments because fuck 'em>becomes a game of cunning brutality and spy warfare to straight up proxy warsits a doggy dog world
>>638388531Yeah the Night Elves have always looked down on the other Elves as lesser, or astray.
>>638380607That would be retarded for gameplay reasons.
>>638388619I would unuronically enjoy this except blizzard set up Calia because war is.. le bad!!!!
>>638388446>Its not that they are evil. Its just that there is no reason for any race to ever be allied with them. Whether they want to or not, they have to corrupt nature to exist and every race that ever existed has to jump through hurdles just to coexist with them.Belfs were fine with them. But they also needed to drain the magic of living creatures to survive in their starting zone so they are pretty unnatural themselves. >>638388531>>638388681I'm pretty sure the blood elfs went to the alliance (first?) and the nelfs chose not to vouch for them on account of them being at war for most of wc3 expansion.
>>638384993That tabard's been in the game since Cata, the Battle for Gilneas NPCs wear it. Would be nice to finally be able to get it.
>>638388681They're literally correct>world gets fucked by dangerous experimentation with arcane magic>a group of survivors say "THIS TIME ITLL BE DIFFERENT!!"banishment was too good for those retards they should have been pincushioned
>>638388619Unfortunately I think Blizzard has dropped the whole 'Horde vs Alliance' thing for good. People kept saying they wanted it back, and I think they did, but Blizzard always misinterpreted what they were really asking for. So instead every single time they tried to implement it, or set up certain story beats, they always fell flat. They never really did it justice, fuck I don't think a single time.
>>638384667>>638386058>>638386337>>638386495>>638387058Cata revamp fixed the vanilla world and the new DM and SFK are better. Seethe and cope, tranillafags.
>high elves joining the horde
>>638388913>THIS TIME ITLL BE DIFFERENTNothing bad has happened yet though has it?
post retconned shit you hatefor me, its>Gnomes existing (self explanatory) >High Elves joining Horde (their entire story after getting raped by Scourge is retarded)>Draenei looking like faggot goats instead of their original spooky wc3 look (AKA we want the middle east audience)
>>638389126Yes, it made the questing a whole lot better but it removed the soul from the old content>>638389132I would love this just to see alliancefags seethe
>>638389197anon blood elves are literally high elves just with a different name
>>638389126I mean they made some of the quests and quest flow better sure, but they made it even more stuck in time than it was before. All of that content is now pegged to Cata and it really shows, it aged horribly. They could have just done a graphical update and done some work on the quest flow without destroying all of the old zones, it was unnecessary. The revamp is always in part what really hindered Cata content, that's why they said they will never do a big revamp ever again.
>>638389185That warlock npc in orgrimmar that was secretly working with the burning blade. He had a questline where Thrall suspects him of being bad so you earn his trust and he gives you a quest for ragefire chasm. It ends with Thrall saying he'll take care of him. Fastforward to MoP and he's a corpse hanging from the ceiling in siege of orgrimmar and now there's a plaque dedicated to him>>638389313I know but I want them to specifically add the alliance high elves to the horde just to make alliance players angry
>>638389132>Undead joining the Horde
>>638389185>>High Elves joining Horde (their entire story after getting raped by Scourge is retarded)They literally have glowing green eyes from using too much fel magic. They also enslaved that light creature. The alliance is kinda against that sort of behavior.
>>638389379>tauren quest givers just hanging out in the same room they make abominations in
>>638388091>back in classic days had a private server run by the only ISP available citywide>the alliance population was so bad people made literal 2 minute adverts for Alliance to make people join and posted them everywhere >it got so bad admin had to make actual intensives for alliance players
>>638389185>High Elves joining HordeI cannot believe people still won't let this go after 15 fucking years. There were (and still are) threads on places like MMOcancer that are THOUSANDS of pages long. Blizzard has in all intents and purposes already put High Elves on the Alliance, but it's still not good enough.
>Trolls have enacted several attempted genocides on elves>Join the horde anyway
>>638389601>all trolls are the samedas racist mon
>>638389601you don't understand, some humans were mean to them :(
>>638389185>undead npcs in the undercity that enslaved and experimented on the human woman dialogue was nerfed>garrosh calling sylvanas a bitch, which was called for and completely within character
>>638389601The Elves have also genocided the Trolls a multitude of times. It's love through genocide.
>>638389162>blood elves at the beginning of bc are crack addicts desperate for their next fix to the point aome incurably turn into shuffling scrawny homeless hobosYeah, nothing bad happened lmao
>>638389389that's what i'm saying in the post, it's fucking stupidthe consequences of literal scourge genocide? a small little black line crossing the cityit's unbelievably retarded from start to finish
>>638389601they also helped the humans destroy the original horde
>Cool snake people that have powerful magic and a strong loa>Horde saves their god and their people from old god juju>Horde instead gets furfaggot foxes that are just a reskin of goblinsRetail is a furry game.
>>638377582>Implying humans don't do worse fucked up shit than thisAlliance OP.
>>638378839>idiots buy gold>more gold sellers show up>"WUH, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN???"it's lame, I agree. but this is literally a "you guys fucking asked for this." issue. welcome to supply and demand
>>638378839>forbid nationalism>not ethnonationalism, not hateful nationalism, just nationalismSo we are officially at the point that feeling national pride is considered offensive? World can't fucking end soon enough
>>638389582>Blizzard has in all intents and purposes already put High Elves on the Alliance, but it's still not good enoughit's not about that, you're missing the pointthe question is why is retarded shit like that is even allowed to happen in the story it doesn't make sense to anyone (not even writers lol, check their interview answers)
>ogres are still unplayable>broken are still unplayable
>>638389659NEVER TRUST A TROLL!
>>638386832After the LK's defeat, a means of finding a cure for undeath would have worked perfectly. They also had Shadow Cult ascension in the RPG book which could have given them yet another alternate goal (Escape undeath sort of by entering a new state maybe?)Sylvanas having the end goal of muh J'lor was just completely retarded, As was Sylvanas being a sociopath and not like the revenge driven person she was in TFT. The forsaken could have kept their borderline evil tendencies a bit more grey area'd and have been forced into the center.Even if you expanded the story into them becoming the villain, I don't think just killing them off would be a good send off.
>>638389705That stuff isn't really retconns though, that's just Blizzard removing dialogue because they leaned into the whole woke narrative, or whatever you want to call it. They Bitch line was removed because some dev said he was playing WoW with his daughter and it wasn't right and felt wrong. It was something along those lines.
>>638389768Sneeple belong to the alliance!!!
>>638377996You forgot literal human concentration camps where they harvest them like plants lmao.
>>638386945That was supposedly the Cdevs taking advantage of the cata writing to remove Garrosh because they hated him and only metzen and one other guy wanted the character to be redeemable.
>>638390031that guy was based but the horde takes him out anyway.
>>638389061>>638388793rate my fanfic>big evil comes back>horde and alliance leaders create friendship co. trucing>forsaken to send supplies to worgen, but historical border disputes lead to information warfare to assassination assignments/proxy wars financed by gobbo cartels>si 7 by their own will starts targeting gobbo cartels because they're a threat to the truce>gobbo cartel spins info warfare, and pays forsaken to gasbomb si 7. alliance begins attack goobo/forsaken>blood elves step in because forsaken and they share an ideological similarity and struggle>void elves step in trying to be the greater good, get told to fuck off>night elves telling void elves and blood elves to settle down since these minority elves are retarded, sending border forces>trolls tell night elves to fuck off and send their own, creating a pseudo north-south korea with border skirmishes>taurens get horny and cowdick their kodos, night elves get disgusted and attacks them via guerilla warfare>orcs get horny and orcdick nightelves because wood>truce collapses and big evil takes half of azeroth, causing migrations while war is rife
>>638389881For starters I think the main reason is because they would need totally new rigs and Blizzard is lazy. Secondly, if we're being honest, not many people would play either race. They'd probably be some some of the least popular in the entire game. I think they should still be added, but Blizzard probably doesn't see the benefit.
>>638390037I dont even care about garrosh being irredeemable I just hated that he was written as a complete retard the second anything blue shows up despite them doing literally nothing to him and living in nagrand his whole lifeHe's not like "fuck yeah alliance I'm gonna show them just like my pa", he just screeches and ignores every mission objective the second a human shows up.
>>638377996this is basically modern lefy/kike/jewish moralityyou can have LE DARK EDGY medium and show where some toddler is skinned and cut apart alive and fed to it's mother and it's le brave and dark and edgy depiction of the worldbut you cannot have someone say NIGGER or FAGGOT or even worse, be morally grey and not fully absurdly cartoony evil at the same time
>>638389840>it doesn't make sense to anyone (not even writers lol, check their interview answers)this, the writers had no idea what they were doing with tbc. Pretty sure metzen said about the whole draenei retcon that he had just forgotten the old lore. And they've admitted they fucked up with Kael'thas and Illidan, to the point they had to retcon their deaths. Tons of characters that should have been in Outland like Turalyon were just forgotten about.tbc in general was thoughtless, I'm pretty sure the devs said they didnt consider the ramifications of flying and that ended up being a problem in future xpacs. And introducing the endless vertical progression model of wow. Tbc pretty much killed the game, its more obvious in retrospect.
>>638390108Better than anything blizzard would write at this point so I'd take it
>>638379102Look at DF. Everything must be happy and quirky and fun. Sterile af.>Look a funny duck yay>Be respectulIts like wacthing some shitty pixar movie.
>>638389748>the consequences of literal scourge genocide? a small little black line crossing the city>it's unbelievably retarded from start to finishSir you are retarded. They rebuilt some of the city, but the entire rest of their kingdom was fucking ashes. There is an entire zone called the ghostlands that is literally scorched earth. Why are you still mad about this its been a decade.
>>638390217TBC also completely ruined dungeon design by making every dungeon a short linear corridor and wow has never escaped from this philosophy since no matter how pretty they made the corridor
>>638390315Yeah, I had my fun with df but after you're done with all the fun as fuck dragon racecourses there's zero reason to go back
The forsaken were not morally gray, they had horror movie morality and aesthetics. Basically, the were the bad guy from a slasher movie you liked more than the teenagers that were the main cast.The problem is that like the rest of the non human races over the years they were fucked because of a lack of cohesive writing idea.Same reason why the trolls went from straight up evil who kept their ways and lied to Thrall about it to the black friend of the orcs, why Tauren went nowhere, why the orcs flip flopped between WC3 noble savages and WC2 evil savages, why the night elves were nerfed etc
>>638388913In the older drafts of the lore where Arcane wasn't titan blood and the opposite of fel, but the cocaine to fel's crack this made sense. The Night elves were justified and High Elves and Humans using arcane magic was asking for demon cock.In modern lore it just makes Nigh Elves the annoying vegans of the magic community that are laughed at by all the other civilizations benefiting from arcane magic.
>>638377582They didn't create those, Lich King did. They just allowed them to keep living after leaving the Lich King.
>>638390108At that point you may as well have interrelational conflict as well and finally break off races like the Forsaken and the Night Elves. Perhaps even the Blood Elves. They then could slowly start to redevelop them back towards how they use to be. I don't know how that would work game mechanically though. That's the main reason I think they've never done anything like that.
>>638390532they won't do that because it's too costly simple as. too much time and money = no do. thats how the cookie crumbles
>>638380790Unbelievably stupid and nigger argument.Fucking retard nigger holy shit you are so fucking stupid retard nigger normie literally you are worse than all shitskins, chinks and pajeets(you) combined.
>>638390217pretty muchI was quite invested in WC lore but during TBC I realized it's all just a crack induced mess (not the good kind like TES)
>>638389185>>638389748For me, the RPG books really sold it though. They were a broken people an Kael had this grand new vision for how they would un break themselves.Go to outland, a new holy land, hunt down demons and drink their fel blood and become great again without the sunwell. All the things were the for the blood elf edge. It was even enough to make the horde joining look stupid because Thrall would draw the line at that kind of fel use but the Forsaken wouldn't give a fuck.Shame all of this was allocated to KAEL BAD and dead in the water by the end of TBC.
>>638390510Did the lich king even make those? Wasn't there like a whole group of human necromancers already on board with the plague plan? I don't think arthas was telling people to make flesh monsters. So really it was humans who were the real evil all along.
>>638390479even dragon riding is just their current cope against the old flying mounts.
>>638390407>and wow has never escaped from this philosophyAnd the worst part is that it contaminated every other MMO as well
>>638390260I think that everyone posting in this thread is more qualified to write for wow than anyone they've hired to write
>>638390510>ignores abom factory in UC
>>638389185>DraeneiI don't get the issue. They look like Eredar (which is what they are. The OG big mouth Draenei were in of themselves a retcon. I can't find the older sources but they were supposed to have looked similar to humans before draenor collapsed and they mutated. The idea was that Garona Halforcen now had a chronologically sound origin for being a half orc that looked closer to a human than an orc.The Eredar Retconn of course ruined it, but whatever, Garona was always retarded and Metzen made her Medivh's bastard child in the movie.Most people hated this retconn not because of the Draenei, but because the Eredar were retconned as the demons who corrupted Sargeras into mortals converted by him. Blizzard didn't really establish that demons were magic mutant ayys infected by space energy until BC so I can see why people had an issue with it.
>>638390984Which I'd say is bullshit, but the burning of Teldrassil proved that very point. I've said this for years, but the players came up with so many more interesting theories than what Blizzard ended up doing. It was so lazy I wasn't even mad, I was just disappointed because we all saw it coming.
Is there a full and unabridged version of WoW's story and plot events I can read somewhere? I'm genuinely fascinated by how awful the story is now and need to see how it happened.
>>638390949I think it's important to note that that is partly the players fault. Everyone whined about doing Mara or BRD back in the day. "It takes too long" "It's too confusing" "there are too many bosses". So they tried to change that in TBC. It was only years later that dungeons like BRD start to be looked at with nostalgia.
>>638389601It's kind of made a point that while trolls have a bond over being trolls and all worship and respect the Zandalari they are all distinct peoples and not friendly.The Amani are not inherent allies with the Gurabashi, two separate empires. The dark spear do not hold the same malice towards humans and elves that the Amani have, since Jungle trolls live in the way south far away from where most alliance races settled.
>>638391116>but the burning of Teldrassilwas based. MORE WAR CRIMES PLEASE. Its the only good thing the do.
>>638390505It's hardly veganism when you witnessed the borderline death of the planet firsthand though, it really pisses me off that they let night elves be mages again, ruins their entire point of being a nature society and homogenizes them with the rest of the alliance
>>638391536Anon I was talking about why it was burned, not that it was burned. Sylvanas just deciding to do it was incredibly lazy.
>>638391334Thank you, anon.
>>638389794>has never bought gold>ITS YOUR FAULT!!!! NOT THE BOTFARMING CHINKS!! YOU ASKED FOR THIS!!Okay...
>>638379085WoW should've been that from the start. Alliance is Human, Dwarf, and Gnome, the Horde are Orcs, Tauren, and Trolls, Night Elves and Undead are their own thing. Maybe just make the endgame raids something you can team up with other factions for to avoid fracturing the playerbase too much, or accept the player characters are mercenary and willing to work with each other in dungeons but not the world.
>>638391607The problem is under the newer lore the issue is more the Azshara and her highborne were assholes and arcane wasn't the problem. In the old lore, people using the well and channeling arcane got Sargs attention and through Xavius or whomever this fact got out to Malfurion. The idea that mages would always get addicted to magic and eventually side with demons was pretty present in WC III. The RPG even had shit about Dalaran teaching mages about the dangers or arcane addiction leading to fel. Shit like the blood elves going full fel drinker mode also supported it.In the Nu-Lore Sarg noticed Azeroth because it was a baby titan and he wanted to kill it, it had nothing to do with mortals using the titan blood pool beyond Sarg needing a pawn. Arcane is now order magic opposed to fel and the only addiction property it has creating zombie withdrawals to addicted races like BEs and Nightborne.If arcane isn't linked to fel, then it posses no danger of bringing the world destroying demons in. Thus the Night elves are just completely wrong in every sense. Doesn't help the magic lore is muttled so you can't tell what the wells actually do since human mages can use magic just fine without drinking it. Ergo "We must not let people use Illidan's new well" makes no sense.
>>638389881>Blizzard having to admit there is no such thing as an ogre female.
>>638391285People wanted to do them in a single sitting when they were designed to be returned too. BRD is basically the pre-raid concept of having a cool dungeon to explore over the weekend.
>>638377582The forsaken is a Christian reference the British being left behind because they were tyrants to America. Jaina and thrall go west to America , Orgrimmar and The Barrens, Tauren and new human settlements is all basically Indians, black people and white colonists as a fantasy medieval thing where magic is real.The reason wrcraft exists is it is created by feds to make right seem far right to move what is right further so they can try to elect faggots like Bush and DeSantis. If they actually fucking cared about their player’s wishes for the story they would have already given us good endings already instead of ignoring what we want and cursing everything to hell against what we want. They literally are behind the people that burn buildings to the ground and rob everything inside like targets and Walmarts (BLM, Antifa, trannies, gays, Marxists, anarchists).Any toddler could tell you that they are supposed to live happily ever after and resurrect the forsaken and lift the curse like a folk and fairy tale and end it. They won’t because it’s about delaying as long as possible. They are Satanist feds. Pure and simple. The Q shaman guy just made a video admitting he is a fed and loves being locked up for 2 and a half years. We already knew he wasn’t Christian, he basically said Jesus is equal with Gandhi and Buddha. Btw you might as well say that /v/ tranny jannies have banned Texas, it impossible to post anything from mobile across the whole state. The whole thing is ip range banned for abuse. IMO that proves 4chan is anti American. Just like Reddit is anti Christian even though it has Christian board. It’s like saying Starship Troopers movie was not filled with multiculturalism and gender equality. You supposed to watch saving private Ryan to cure your aids from watching that stupid shit. If your body is tattooed like Q Shaman then you aren’t a spiritual example because your body is stained with sin on your hands.
>>638392136God i hate nu RPG lore
cant believe they added this
>>638392486The only thing I like about it was the Loa and Ancient Guardians being the same being (Wild God). I remember bringing this up in the lore forums a lot because it seemed retarded that Troll's had big animals and NE's had big animals but they were never confirmed at all to be the same thing.A lot of players seemed to have wanted it that way for some reason at the time, even though from a world building perspective it was an annoying redundancy.
>>638377582They got resurrected into undeath against their will>>638378047Evil races are boring and stupid
>>638378591because wow has pvp and being the rotten vermin ganking the wannabe righteous faggots is very entertaining
>>638392136>Doesn't help the magic lore is muttled so you can't tell what the wells actually do since human mages can use magic just fine without drinking it. I thought it was supposed to be just really really really concentrated power. So much so that the night elves are immortal just from living next to it, and drinking it was supposed to make you much stronger but the feeling was addictive (also physically addictive.) Like magical steroids x10. Pretty sure the highelves were supposed to have godlike powerlevels from sippin. The queen transformed an entire race of people with one spell. But I'm not really caught up on the new lore.
>>638392496Pandashits were a mistake beyond WC3
>>638392751>>638392908Have gay sex in a room somewhere else federal gay mother fuckers. Go fuck your dad, the fucking devil and have your souls devoured by hell.
>>638392474>>638392993>phoneposting wannabe schizo /pol/fag election tourist2016 was a mistake
>>638380424A red vs. blue faction war can at any point be started with either one of the following:- Old grudges, unpaid debts and bad blood: For each instance where the factions united against a big bad they had an equal number of cases where they were at each others' throats. At this point there's a part of the population in both factions whose entire adult life fighting the opposing faction (such as since the Dark Portal's opening). Remember the Nam or Korean war veterans? How they were prejudiced/racist towards gooks even years after these wars (that lasted no more than 3-4 years)? Now imagine if they have been dealing with the genocidal tendencies of the opposing faction for decades. Realistically your entire life could be revolving around perfecting the ways to murder the Horde or the Alliance because that's what you've been doing for 40 years.With that in mind it wouldn't take much for another war to escalate. Territorial disputes, old grievances (Forsaken v Worgen, Calia not delivering on her promise and keeping Gilneas, Dwarfs desecrate another bunch of Tauren religious sites, whatever) can feed into the sentiment that the other faction can't and shouldn't be trusted and need to be put into their place.>ScarcityThe other big and easiest way to reignite old hatreds is a situation where Azeroth can't sustain both factions. As an example, the Primalists fuck with the elements to the point that crops, water and natural resources get ruined. Both the Horde and Alliance starve and suffer and the leaders understand that they can't realistically resolve this situation with cooperation. A war for resources can just occur out of necessity and the survival of their populace. Every Horde and Alliance member will prioritize their own over the other faction and it would be a fully justified war on both sides.
>>638393067/pol/? It’s allied religion you dumb fucking piece of shit. Kill yourself in Jesus Christ’s name. I don’t give a fuck. God is going to ram His fucking power from on High on top of your God Damn Fucking God Forsaken God judged God Destroyed places where you fucking live and squish your bodies to smitherines.
>>638392804The new lore doesn't go into detail about it all besides it evolving Dark Trolls into NE's and then NE's further into Blood Elves and Nightborne.This is actually more of an old lore issue that was never resolved. It's written like to use magic you have to tap into the well like how the BE chick absorbs the mana worm in the TBC intro. NE's trying to end arcane use by sealing Illidan's well in the world tree and the Highborne making the sunwell to continue using magic also implies you pretty much need a well.But then you get to the human troll wars and humans pick up magic without needing it.Now the interesting thing is the nu lore might fix this. Humans are titan creations. In Nu Lore, Ogres on Draenor are naturally attuned to Arcane because they're closer to the titan made stone giant that "Breaker" races descend from. So maybe humans, dwarves and gnomes don't need a font. But nu lore also states mages draw arcane from ley lines (Which the blue flight was suppose to suppress or some shit with the nexus).All and all, it feels like two separate trains of thought regarding how the magic works in the setting that no one realized was nonsense.
>>638393319you're a faggot and you worship a faggot jew, he wont do shit to hinder me and he wont do shit to help a faggot like you, kill yourself homo
>>638393427>itt. Trannie Feds think Politics is God after they became a fed they think they run the country.I don’t worhsip a fucking Jew you mother rucking devil cock sucker. Suck that demon cock gooooood you fucking fed piece of red Satan fucking filth. God damn your soul you fucking tran troon faggot ass eating cancer aids ridden FUCK.Amen in Jesus Christ’s name you fucking die.Jesus Christ is literally God and that makes us also after the fact.
>>638377582because they were forced to defend themselves and survive after getting released from the lich kingif they didn't they'd be hunted, if they didn't they wouldn't have a home or societyso they did them anon, they did the bad deeds
>>638393427God is going to ram eternity of hell right up your asshole you mother fucker. Your demon aids ridden cancer seed will writhe in the lake of fire where the worm dieth not. In life your body will endure horrible unendurable punishment and pain and suffering and agony and wrath to never end.
>>638393718It really is like that>War>Peace>War>PeaceWar in Warcraft was a mistake. The Alliance and Horde being in a cold war worked better.
>>638377582>didn't play WC3>didn't play undead starting zone
>>638391285BRD was the perfect dungeon, you unlocked keys that let you skip to the bosses you actually wanted to fight and it was full of cool optional encounters like the tavern
>>638393723>>638393601ur zoomer ptsd schizophrenia is so heckin epic and valid, please dont kill yourself at the earliest convenience that would be so sad lol
>>638378113DEATH TO THE SCOURGE
>>638377582This is what the average american will look like by 2050 and it's beautiful.
>>638394024I wish they had doubled down on that and made even bigger dungeons. Make dungeons that are the size of a zone.
>>638391536so you'd be okay with the Night Elves taking revenge by developing some kind of fungus that induced rapid onset rot in undead and bombed the Forsaken with it right?Or are the war crimes supposed to only be one-sided?
>>638377582>abominationshotYou guys remember this one?
>>638394024BRD was the peak of WoW's game design
>>638394281Too bad they scrapped azjol nerub zone
>>638394128Just because boomers have a mount or run 40mph diagonally in doom doesn’t make them zoomers.
>>638394281Fun fact, they can't do this anymore, because every dungeon's RP is done with talking head, and the dungeon must have 3 to 5 bosses, should be static without too many branching paths, and always take the same amount of time on any run to finish, and must be a single point in time during an expac, and must suspend the players disbelief about the happenings inside it, and fuck me I hate this game :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
>People literally play WoW on \v\
>>638394420Holy fucking based
>>638377582The writers are hacks and couldn't come up with a reason for the horde to keep existing past BC other than make the horde explicitly evil but write it as if they're shades of grey even though it requires doing things like fucking over characters like Baine which just makes them look even more evil.
>>638394682mythic+ is such cancer. every dungeon has to be a 15min speedrun and uberhard for the hardcore crowd. people would rather play ddr boss mechanics than have any meaningful exploration, atmosphere or anythingmind you dungeons have been corridors since tbc so whatever
>>638394327One of the major issues with the WAR shit is blizzard kept trying to have the factions trade blows evenly. For every loss there was a win. They also sucked at this though because the Horde was blatantly more fun to write, creating the perceived notion of a Horde bias.This is because the Alliance isn't allowed to deviate too much from basic non-offensive skin. The horde is, but the horde also contains the C-devs pet characters. The end result is the Horde kept having shit like Varimathras, Sylvanas or Garrosh stir shit up only to be disposed of in an apology. "The horde will be good in the end" became the perpetual meme of all conflict because blizzard won't make the horde evil and can't be pressed to make the Alliance do anything terrible.
>>638392681>Evil races are boring and stupidYou're boring and stupid.
>>638395004illithid would be more interesting if their machinations and schemes were far beyond human comprehension, not "evil"Forced alignment is just a boring restrictive concept to me, im sorry.
>>638394978burning of Teldrassil also was a fairly blatant "even blows" thing thoughIn lore there was literally a zero % chance of Sylvanas being able to pull that off, but she had to because the Alliance was going to attack Undercityand then they included Horde bias anyways by making Undercity a brilliant tactical move on Sylvanas' part costing the alliance thousands of soldiers, while having her casually stroll over with 0 losses in her campaign Horde shouldn't have been more fun to write, if they simply had kept writing the Alliance like they did in the RTS games as well
>>638395130nah that shit is for actual eldritch abominations, which the illithid aren't they always have been brain sucking assholes
>>638395004They're cool but>Race is actually the unnatural result of a worm being shoved in a mortals head.>The worms can actually survive independently of their host and become big psychic serpents.Seems kind of a weird thing to be a "race".
>like trolls>troll quests best quests>troll zone in wotlk best zone>troll raids best raids>troll dungeons best dungeons>troll lore best lore>all my characters trolls>entire troll focused expansion comes out>it fucking sucks cockAnd then I never played it again
>>638394954there was a 3-digit post-count neverwinter nights thread that included mostly pick-me-twitch sweaty shitheads talking about how their build will get owned by a min-maxed rogue / druid build... in neverwinter nights.society is lost.I used to do jeep donuts around the flag in bf1942 CTF at the enemies flag. You would get panzershreked IMMEDIATELY by dudes back then. Now, everyone is a silly motherfucker in FPS, and all the shitheads play RPGs.
>>638395228The alliance has brief flashes of interesting shit but Blizzard never delivers. It wasn't until Legion you had shit like some Draenei defecting to become Manari. It was probably the first time since BC's Akunai priests that the Dranei weren't painfully boring lawfully good space goats.Why the fuck weren't the Worgen the much needed edgy race that committed the war crimes for the alliance?
>>638394954Dungeons being corridor cancer since tbc was the first post of this reply chain so pretty much yeah
>>638395578Blizzard unuronically forgot that worgen as a faction exist
>>638395578>Why the fuck weren't the Worgen the much needed edgy race that committed the war crimes for the alliance?For the same reason the Night Elves weren't a race of war crime enthusiasts in vanilla they had all things set up for an interesting conflict between orcs and night elves with neither side being the good guys and both giving as hard as they gotbut because of the Alliance having to be the designated good guys in addition to the Horde being the designated interesting faction, the Alliance has largely served to make the Horde look good
>>638395321is a race that sucks brains sucking brains to survive really evil? Are you evil for being a part of what humans do to animals?
>>638395862Do they actually need to eat brains to survive, though? And they do lots of other blatantly evil shit like enslavement, torture and world domination.
>you play Horde, right anon?wat do?
>>638395862they're evil because they actively get off on torturing their victims first with horrific mindrape also you know, for actively continuing to create more of themselves and for not surviving on the brains of animals, which they can
>>638396043I dont know, I never played dnd, I'm just guessing
>>638396047Horde was only good in vanilla when they were the bad guy faction and little kids didn't want to play them. Same as how empire was better in star wars galaxies. Something happened with the zoomers though where they ended up wanting to play the bad guy faction while also being told they're actually good which is how you got to the modern horde and "morally grey" characters like Sylvanas who even Garrosh told to stop doing so many war crimes.
>>638379085>>638392129Actually undead are a core Horde race, being part of it before even trolls
>>638396095so you're telling me with an advanced race of potentially millions of illithid there isn't a single vegan faggot one?
>Revealed to be the ultimate villain of the WoW Universe before J'lor diminished him to puppet statusVoid bro's, it's not fair. It was OUR TURN.
>>638396097huh? why ion cry?
>>638396189It depends on the DMIf you're in a faggot vegan dnd group the ilithid will be a faggot vegan giving you quests to stop its evil brethren
>>638396189no because every Illithid that shows the mere resemblance of a moral compass is killed immediately as a tadpole before even getting implanted
>>638377582That's morally pinkish, there's grey ones too.
>>638380589Yeah and they had wotf and other buffs to compensate. Then blizz took away the downsides and left them wildly overpowered in pvp until...still are.
>>638381725>>638387228you both know the normie playerbase wouldn't accept "it was just a dream" as the plot concept though. The writers would never make such a bold move to alienate people who want simple feel good stories.
>>638396229It's AI. Learn the signs and don't fully trust new video anymore bruh (I'm not OPter and I've never seen it before)
>>638381195High elves, dwarves and humans literally just existed peacefully until the horde appeared and started genociding them. The only questionable alliance race are night elves.
>>638396229was something about how LGBTQ+ and the females were harassed etc etc.he tried and listened tho their cries but was unable to help, poor poor him.
>>638381195Garithos did nothing wrong
>>638379460Honestly the only way calia as Sylvanas' replacement wouldn't have been the shitshow it turned out to be was if the forsaken saw her as an insult to everything they went through (look at me guys the light raised me as a super special undead just to rule you, now I know exactly the things you went through when you were killed, mind controlled and forced to eat your loved ones!) And constantly have her assassinated, forcing the light to raise her on a daily basis.
>>638396295but isn't there some official ruling that certain races are just all bastards at birth? One of the reasons I never played dnd is because I wanted to play a neutral goblin and was told they can only be evilly aligned>>638396332how can you tell if a tadpole has a moral compass?
>>638389132Yeah that happened in BC and forever shifted faction numbers.
>>638378591Ganking and eating wannabe heroes is fun. Played Undead warrior for 9 years and nothing else. Stopped play for good a few years ago though.
>want new races? HERE YOU GO!
>>638396667>how can you tell if a tadpole has a moral compass?Elder Brains can, it's sort of their thing to know that shitalso the weak ones get ate by the strong ones
>>638381209They are constantly trying to summon their old gods to enslave everyone.
>>638396806People who have to make rage comics to get across a simple statement like "junk gnomes are lazy" should be euthanized
>>638379512>>638379460I just realized they gave Calia a ginormous rack and made her a pretty "holy" undead in an attempt to placate "PRAISE SYLVANAS MY DARK LADY" Forsaken larpers with another mommy.
>>638383465Pretty much the opposite, being undead numbs all the warm happy fuzzy emotions and leaves you a bitter cunt.
>>638396806Kul Tirans are peak male performance though, and I enjoyed my time playing a fat thug punching people as a combat rogue.
>Alliance players have been wanting High Elves for quite some time now>Yeah, I have an idea, lets give them dumb purple 'Void Elves' with 5 minutes of lore that no one asked forWhoever came up with Void Elves unironically fucking despised Alliance players
>>638383774>joined the kor'kron under garrosh>garrosh, a huge racial purist>letting non-orcs into his exclusive elite fighting force
>>638396875>>638396806not him but still pissed at junk gnomesI actually wanted mechanognomes, there would have been some actual storyline potential in it for the gnomeslike, gnomes figure out that with their low population, low birthrate and general crazyness of the world, organic reproduction is basically doomed for themso instead they start creating sapient mechanognomes, some even choosing to voluntarily revert to mechanical formstons of things you can do with that going forwards, not in the least an aggressive campaign to retake their home city and course, giving the alliance something that finally freaks out the forsaken because there's no blighting mechanognomes but no, instead we got "that"
They should have split factions into 3 or more parts at some point. The Blood Elves despite being Alliance material are in the Horde. Forsaken are in the Horde at odds with the motivations of all the other races. Tauren don’t fit the Horde at all. Night Elves are basically their own thing. WoW devs are painfully dull. They just want the game design to be simple. Faction 1 vs faction 2 for PvP but otherwise doesn’t matter. Burning Crusade is the big bad most of the time, can’t have anyone that isn’t going to die in a raid ally with them, no faction switching of races because game design reasons/laziness. It’s like someone interesting designed the game for launch and some suits took over immediately after
>>638397132it should have been 3 factions, alliance, horde and forsaken. it makes virtually no sense for a race that despises all life to be allied with anyone let alone the horde. but now in recent times because blizz refuses to have black and white factions they whitewashed the horde into being 'le noble outcasts' and the forsaken into, for some reason, wanting to protect life as its guardians. this is of course on top of blizzard censoring anything they might consider 'icky'
>>638381827>WE WUZ PALADINS
there should be fully animated sex scenes, gameplay, voice acting, and mythic/raid impacts. when you die you should get plap plap'd by your attacker, npc or player alike and you lose exp and eventually your levels. this will encourage the alliance to hop on warmode. this will encourage horde players to be more aggressive. this will make world pvp popular agian. everytime you get raped you lose exp. evertime you cum from being raped you lose even more exp. everytime you cum as a rapist you get more ilvl/raider io scores. thank you for cumming to my ted talk.
>>638387024The underlying story got changed like 3 times during development, they were making shit up as they went along.
>>638380389>The real answer from chad undead players is "yes."ThisYou don't understand what it's like to be undead: in short, they are smarter than you, and they don't give a fuck about your morals or your bitching and crying. Get plague bombed for funsies and because it would make for a good experiment.LOL.
>>638395395Nigger you're aware that there are IRL species that are result of hybridization? Like the grass desert whiptail lizards, which are entirely "female"?Also mitochondria used to be a separate animal
>>638397484>we swear its not an old god expansion>its an old god expansionphew, almost went back to the status quo of horde vs alliance, which was what the entire expansion was based around
>>638389375I did like that one warlock trainer in SoO who just summoned the biggest fucking doomguard he could to take the fuckers down with him.
>>638397615however when you lose your real information gets posted on world chat
>>638377582Used to be. Originally they were supposed to be Undead that got freed from the Lich King's influence (thanks to Illidan's shenanigans) and in order to survive they'd do many morally questionable things out of sheer necessity or because the situation is so damn difficult for them.There are good, bad and even morally ambiguous Forsaken...but the problem is the faction ceased to be morally gray after a lot of shit happened. I blame WoW itself for this. In a perfect world they would be the "GET OFF MY LAWN" type of guys but would allow you to pass through their territory as long as you don't stir up shit. Now they are something that you wouldn't call morally gray nor morally ambiguous at all.
>>638397615>getting raped>not tying down the orc after a successful raid and fucking him raw with your sistersthis is why human women are weak
>>638397782that wasnt stated before
>>638397874i fucking hate human women
>>638397286It’s just laziness. That approach would need another set of quests and the Forsaken couldn’t join the blob of doing the exact same quests after their starting zone. 2 factions allows them to homogenise the game. Imagine Alliance missions, Horde missions and Forsaken missions all being different
>>638396907Best is how forsaken players called out blizz on this and blizz went "no guys serial we weren't going to have her replace Sylvanas" then awkwardly had her stand around in every important event representing noone for two expansions before quietly dropping her in as Sylvanas' replacement.
Look at all the puritan pearl-clutching in this thread, over a fucking videogame. No wonder WoW got turned into sanitized garbage where every faction is led by a peace-loving council.
>>638378229Night Elves joining the Alliance is retarded too.
>>638396213they can't make black people the ultimate bad guys
>>638397662>hey you gotta use the necklace to save azeroth from the big sword wound CHAMPYUN>good going, you used the necklace as a targeting laser to fucking kamehameha n'zoth, azeroth is saved!But what about the swor->Azeroth. Is. Saved.
>>638398187>It's ok guys she's on a council with Lilian Vess, you like her right? :^)
>>638396047nahi like actual buildingsand shoes
>>638398362Wasn't Lilian Vess's entire character that she hated being a Forsaken and then they just kind of forgot about that in Battle For Azeroth when they made her an important Forsaken rep? Similarly to how they forgot that Garona's entire character was being remorseful about being part of the Horde and wanting to help make amends with the Alliance, but BFA just had her being a Horde cheerleader?I haven't played since Cata but I remember shitposting about that when BFA came out. I wonder if they ever pulled the same shit with Valeera "I would kill the entire Horde for a crumb of Wrynn Penis" Sanguinar.
>>638398576Vess was in because in cata people wanted her to replace Sylvanas just as they were telling Blizzard to bring Calia back. I swear those faggots actually got jobs as writers which is why this shit happened.
>>638398358dont ask questions just consume expansion and get excited for next expansion
>>638396739That was a good thing though. One of the main reasons they added them to the Horde in the first place was because of the massive faction imbalance. No one wanted to play Horde and it was starting to cause issues. I don't think they anticipated how massive of a swing it ended up being though. If they added them to the Alliance back in the day it would have been even worse. God who knows, there would be like 30 Alliance players for every single Horde player.
>>638398704I thought it was just because they realized that the Horde had no interesting characters left, so they were just pillaging any neutral characters after forgetting the faction conflict isn't supposed to be a literal race war.
I haven't played since Legion.Is Danuser still here?
>>638395228Honestly if you take all the fucking inconsistencies with the teldrassil storyline you can make an actual decent conspiracy plotline that makes alliance morally grey™>alliance were totally fooled and sent all their troops south to the azerite mines so they couldn't back up the nelfs>but malfurion held the horde off for weeks and noone showed (apart from players)>teldrassil gets burned down in moments by catapults. from the shoreline miles away.>the moment you report this news the alliance announce they're ready for the final assault against the undercity, a full scale seige is already at the gates having laid waste to all of tirisfal>surprise attack takes weeks, seige warfare is over in an hourHave the alliance aware of the ruse cruise but rather use the time to stockpile azerite and plan revenge than help the nelfs, the worgen burn down teldrassil using the extremely volatile azerite to frame them, and all the forces be already en route to undercity by the time the justification kicks off.
Why is blizz so utterly incapable of writing anything decent? Warcraft 3 was alright in terms of story but that's about it. Why with a multi million dollar franchise thye cant hire writers for shit?
>>638397042Didn't they give you the ability to just have a normal skin tone and blue eyes now? I think it's time to let it go. It's been 15 years.
>>638398882>yeah we're fine with burning down this giant fucking tree so that we have justification to bomb a run-down fucking hole in the ground that belongs to the people we're literally already at war withWhy would they frame the people they are ALREADY TRYING TO KILL IN BATTLE?
>>638390208>but you cannot have someone say NIGGER or FAGGOT or even worseRemember when all the troons freaked out because Pennywise used the word faggot in the last IT movie? "He's supposed to be our ally! How dare the director betray us like that!"Says a lot about a "community" that consistently adopts literal monsters and murderers as symbols of their community, and whole heartedly embraces people like Chris Chan, but claims someone saying a word like "retard" is committing literal genocide.
>>638378591who wouldn't want-desire to play-control as a glorious rat-vermin, man-thing?!
>>638398854Nah, people liked Vess's quest in Cata and thought she'd be a good Sylvanas replacement because they really wanted to kill Sylv in a raid.The desolate council is basically everybody's suggestions from those Lore forum rage threads. Obvious they blizzard prefers the Calia thing.
>>638398861Yes, and now he's the official head. All the lore from here on in is being directed from his vision.
>>638383119>4channel user discovers that morality is a social construct based on subjective opinion and narrative
>hey man we can make this cool new dragon race, there are tons of dragon npcs to reference and they look pretty co->oh, we hired a literal furry to design them?>he intentionally made them look like fetish material?>oh>oh no
>>638399114That doesn't explain Garona, though.
>>638399114Who is this Vess you guys keep talking about? I assume you mean Lilian Voss, or is this a new character?
>>638392129Every group should have had been its own faction, with the opportunity to gain reputation with each, but made Undead the faction that gaining any positive faction would reduce all other factions. Just like MMOs pre-WOW. The binary faction split has always been retarded, and existed only because Blizzard and autistic faggots went, "Dur, it's called World of Warcraft, not World of Peacecraft, so there has to be 2 factions for PvP," as if there was no other way to have PvP in the game.
>blizz hints on to something 'unexpected'>forum fags predicts everything on point>blizz panics for some reason and rewrite verything into complete retardation
>>638399037Because battle =/= total extinction war. Greymane is >>638383524 degree crazy and has been shown as willing to fuck over the alliance if it gets him a shot at Sylvanas (losing the skybreaker in an attempt on her life at the start of legion when they were under a truce). Burning teldrassil gives them a justification to go in and slaughter the undercity.
>>638399441>with the opportunity to gain reputation with eachBecause that would have made even less sense than what they went with. Seeing Gnomes running around in Orgrimmar, or Orcs in Darnassus, would have been ridiculous.
>>638399540Yeah, but the reason he feels that way is because Sylvanas and the Forsaken already perform chemical warfare and other horrific crimes against nature on the regular. This is like saying you'd shoot your friend to death so that you could frame Jeffrey Dahmer for it and have justification to kick his ass. He already has justification to fuck up the Undercity, and the Undercity's also a worthless fucking sewer compared to an enormous tree of life.
>>638399540you do remember that sylv indirectly killed varian?
>>638399359Lillian Vess is a MtG character, Voss is a parody of her but forsaken have so few living named characters that she has to take centre stage.
>>638399774To the same degree the airship pilot killed him, I guess?
>>638399816Interesting, after all these years this is the first time I've ever heard of that.
>>638399716He has justification for himself, but he can't mobilise the entirety of the alliance, and one dog running at the walks is just sad. Hence the frame job to make the moderates angry enough to let him get his revenge.
>>638399816>game is massive hordewank for several years>still almost 0 interesting characters
>>638386652Indeed. The alliance are all about ethnic cleansing since before the opening of the dark portal. And they are not even considered morally grey.
>>638400076>hordewank for several years>still almost 0 interesting charactersAnd why do you think that is? Blizzard only ever focuses on the Horde when they are either villain batting and killing off it's important lore characters, turning them neutral, or using them as a vehicle to move the plot forward. There are very few times when they truly focus on the Horde in any sort of constructive manner. That's why both factions feel so hollow.
>>638399247FixedIt isn't much better but alongside this they gave you the SHITTIEST humanoid forms instead of just letting you pick whatever race you want with some dragonkin accents and the gear barely shows up on your dragon form because fuck you pay them money
>>638400205Because Alliance players generally want to be seen as bastions of honor and righteous and "the good guys". Why do you think there are so many Deus Vult larpers? It still makes me laugh when I think about how many people lost their god damn minds when in the beta there were Alliance purge squads killing Vulpera.
>>638377582They aren't, and never were. Go make a Forsaken in Classic Era RIGHT NOW and listen to the opening narration. Then quest through their areas and tell me they were ever anything but (slightly sympathetic) villains.
>>638400076>kills off baine, vol'jin, kael'thas, varimathras, garrosh, saurfang, etc.>butchers thrall and sylvanas to keep the plot going>hordewank for several yearsHonestly I'd say everyone left on the horde is crying out for some ""alliancewank"". Maybe when both factions are left with nothing but three placeholders and one or two neutered plot devices we can agree that attention isn't a good thing.
>>638400205Killing demonic invaders is not ethnic cleansing.>>638400530>make faction act completely out of character>surprised when faction's players complain about it
>>638400530>complain about purge squads>now there's happy fun time squads burning down the only home, shelter and supplies these nomads have in the desert of no return, chaining them up.... And then telling them to straighten up and fly right before leaving them all completely unharmed
>the whole 'sylvanas dindu naffin' thing
>>638379085>BFA ending>All races have their happy end-of-war orgy>except undeadI would totally play current shit wow if it allowed me to be a guerrilla forsaken targeting horde and alliance in the name of Sylvanas or based Putress
>>638400763Even Gallywix wasn't spared. The only one who managed to escape Blizzard's clutches was Lor'themar, at least to some degree.
>>638400407Gross, lazy, ugly. Makes me not wanna play this game or know anything more about it.Ugly ugly lizzards, dragons are supposed to be huge fire breathing monsters, what the fuck is this furry goat skink?
>>638400768Things that are in character for alliance leaders>standing around saying noble things>DBZ power level wank>standing around tutting at the ignorant brutish horde>sitting down
>>638401307I'd still count lorethemar as a placeholder for kael'thas, the guy who should've led the blood elves.
>>638378591When a story lacks a villain sometimes you just want to fill the void and be the bad guy to make the story more interesting.
>morally greythis stupid shit ruins everything
>sex bad!>weird fetishes good!what did the modern industry mean by this?
>WoW has 8 furry races, and that's if you don't even count the Pandas and Lizards for both factions which would make it 10.
>>638396667>but isn't there some official ruling that certain races are just all bastards at birth? Again it depends on your DM, in this case if you have a faggot vegan DM with his faggot vegan illithid questgiver he'll tell you to go fuck yourself, but if you have a chill DM he'll find a way to make it work provided you aren't planning on outright ruining the game for the other players
>>638399631Not really. PvP in that instance could also contribute to negative relations with factions. Attack high rep Gnome player characters without provocation, get negative rep with Gnomes but positive rep with factions that dislike Gnomes. So you see maybe 1 Gnome in Ogrimmar, well that dude has fucked up every Human, Dwarf and Night Elf he’s come across. Let him into Ogrimmar, he is based as fuck. Give him an evil skin cosmetic or something like the evil dwarves haveIt could all be so much better
>>638377582They may be literal undead monsters at odds with the living, but at least they didn't enslave orcs like the humans did.And when Orcs did bad shit to the squid goats it was different because demon blood, except for when it wasn't demon blood but even then they were justified because apparently as soon as you leave that timeline the squid goats literally chase them off of their own world.Horde really should have been the bad guy faction.Instead the game goes out of its way every time to brand them as din-do-nuffins.
>>638395992Ok but what did the lava dredgers do? Why them?
>horde is 55% elvesi still dont fucking understand why people who wanted elves play horde
>>638401778>cow>wolf>panda>moose>fox>lizard>8Are you counting the jews and walrus humans?
>>638401894Squid goats killed half the galaxy by dragging the legion along with them from planet to planet while never bothering to use the fel detectors they canonically had to check if any of the evil squid goats had walked onboard with their own people (one of their high council was giving out locations and plans to the legion all along)
>>638402251Highmountain cows and Lightforged goats. They are essentially the same thing but are classified as 'allied races' so are technically another race.
>>638402054Because people don't want to be ugly races but they want to play on the faction with a raiding scene
>>638402242I just got the mental image of magni draping a regular sized tarp over the sword and calling it a day. Thanks anon.
>>638379916>menethil Imagine butchering your own lore so badly that you think the Forsaken would not immediately gas Arthas’ sister on sight
>>638402054It's their copout to wanting to play an elf, but alliance = fags.Ironic that they chose the gayest race to play as.
>>638401894Yeah, the humans made a mistake of sparing them instead of executing them when they fell asleep. And unlike the orcs the squidfaces that ran weren't niggers.
>>638402054Because a lot of people like the idea of the Horde, but didn't want to play what they consider ugly races. So when Blizzard finally added the Blood Elves to the Horde for population reasons back in the day, everyone who was interested in the Horde finally jumped over.
>>638377582The forsaken did literally nothing wrong and the amount of alliance seethe they are responsible for automatically makes them the best race in the game. If your enemies like you you're probably doing something wrong
>>638402392They did. Didn't work, the light made her special snowflake undead. After that blizzard just made her stand around with the other faction leaders until they decided people were used to her and shoved her in as the new forsaken lead
>>638399540Before j'lor every single bad thing that ever happened to him, his family, his friends, his people and his country was directly caused by sylvanasNobody in WoW is more justified than Genn in wanting to cause a scorched earth genocide
Power to the Forsaken
>>638402464>The forsaken did literally nothing wrong>lets just forget about that new plague thing
>>638402764I never said otherwise, I'm saying he'd not be able to convince the rest of the alliance to go along with his genocide without a major incident like teldrassil.
>>638402953The new plague didn't go wrong at all, worked entirely as intended. This is slander against the royal apothecary society
>>638402953A well-intentioned technology that was unfortunately taken over by traitors who were subsequently punished.I meant nothing wrong in the moral sense, not that mistakes and accidents don't happen occasionally.
>>638402764What? Besides the invasion of Gilneas almost every single misfortune Genn has endured has been directly or indirectly his own damn fault. Even his son's death wasn't Sylvanas's fault, she never intended to kill him, he protected Genn. It's also important to note that Genn totally cloistered off Gilneas, left the other Human Kingdoms to their fate and be destroyed, and left countless innocents to die at the gates.
>>638402346>draeneis being furryCmon manAlso I suspect what he wrote down as "moose" is already the HMTaurens
>>638403158>chemical weapon that was ivented to kill every living thing in the world icluding other horde races>well-intentioned technology
>>638403219Anon they have tentacles, tails, hooves, and horns. They are 100% furry. In that case regular goats and lightforged goats, that's where the 8 comes from.
>>638402964It's more like they had higher priorities than getting stuck in chemical trench warfare, but anyway the main thing here is as much of a vendetta he has, he's still honorable and would never ever betray his allies, especially the night elves since they're the only reason so many gilneans escaped alive.Also why he reinforced the night elves in the ruins of darkshore instead of the actual front lines where manpower was needed the most
>>638403267>plagues... kill people...?desperate times call for desperate measures, an axe also fits your description but you wouldn't call a smith evil. The new plague didn't spare the forsaken either
>>638403542>what have I created, oh woe, I never intended this>we understand your devastation at this news, chief apothecary festerblight, your colleague apothecary plaguedeath mcgenocide was also shocked at the application of his therapeutic face eating plague.
>>638395130illithid are just an allegory for jews
>>638402000Dredged lava. Hugely offensive to fire elementals.
>>638403198That is some Olympic level mental gymnastics right there>your country is invaded>your family killed>your people massacred and their flesh restitched together into disgusting abominations>the invaders use chemical warfare to render the country uninhabitable and the only reason you survive is deus ex machina elves>alliance graciously accepts you into the fold despite turning your back on them in their time of need until now and awards you your full station>the person that ruined your life isn't sorry and comes back for more, she stops the broken shore reinforcements at the legion invasion and let's gul'dan murder your new best friend in cold blood>now she's in charge of the entire enemy faction and murders 90% of the people that saved you in cold blood>now she betrayed everyone and kidnaps the son of your late friend and mindbreaks him into a servant of death>now she's roaming scott free in the maw doing basic physical labour, almost all your friends and countrymen are dead and the forsaken are recovering and reorganizing to be stronger than everJustice for Greymane
>>638403393Yes this would be a push to a more unhinged greymane, remember the word of the day is morally grey™
>>638404512Just about the only thing that would cause full unhinged greymane would be if he had absolutely nothing left to lose, in other words all the other night elf leaders and the rest of his family are dead, and anduin stays missing
>>638404380>stops the broken shore reinforcements at the burning legion invasion and let's guldan murder your new best friend in cold bloodDid you only play the alliance side of that scenario or something? The horde was dying there, at best they could have bought a couple of minutes at the cost of every one of their lives. Varian wasted all the time they had been given with empty bravado speeches. And even then Sylvanas intended to make that last stand until the dying warchief gave her a direct order to withdraw.