[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/v/ - Video Games

[Advertise on 4chan]


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: EdF_9_kUMAEDNGt.png (420 KB, 1200x918)
420 KB
420 KB PNG
>Be average and unskilled fan of video games
>Have a favourite from childhood, usually some 2D platformer
>Discover that it's actually quite easy to make games now
>Load up some YouTube tutorial and follow along
>Have a clone of favourite game running, identical mechanics, physics and everything
>Decide you've now put in sufficient work to sell it as a product
>Slap some generic pixelshit artstyle on top of it and call it "retro"
>Sell game with phrases like "inspired by X game" even though it's essentially all stolen from the original
How do we fix the indie problem? You shouldn't be able to succeed if you have 0 talent, skill or imagination should you?
>>
File: strawman.jpg (71 KB, 600x450)
71 KB
71 KB JPG
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
>>
>>554289931
>Be op
>Choke on dicks all day
>Be mad he didn't spend that time making a game
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
>>
File: 1619495121011.jpg (1.48 MB, 2700x2007)
1.48 MB
1.48 MB JPG
>>554289931
Post rain world
>>
>>554289931
Whoa, there's only 8 indie games?
>>
>>554290736
There's actually nine, but the ninth one is too obscure for casuals like OP.
>>
Don't forget
>don't have time or talent to make levels
>make them random its called "roguelike" XD

There used to be a saftey guard against this shit. It was called steam-green light, basically you needed to get a certain number of people to vouch for your game to get it on the store. There were still indie turns but not nearly as much. Indie fags tried to con the system by just going around and begging people to vouch for their game by cold calling. News articles in favor of indies said green light was bad and so steam took it down.

In short the way you would purge the indie scum is to make it harder to publish.
>>
>>554291010
>too obscure
you must be referring to undertale
>>
>>554289931
What gaames in your pic are "retro"? It's only Downwell and Fez right?
>>
>>554289931
Whites ruined indie games
>>
>>554290632
Woah
>>
>>554291181
That's not Yumi Nikki
>BRO THIS GAME IS SOO KOOKY AND THE FANDOM AND-
No thanks, I don't play SJW shit games.

Cave Story comes in third place for most annoying INDIE game after Yumi then Undertail.
>>
>>554291760
it was a joke. undertale is not obscure.
are you having a bad day or are you always like this, OP?
>>
>>554292434
>tale
I wasn't talking about Undertale, I was talking about Undertail.
>>
>>554289931
I'm a little amazed, because I think people actually think like this.
>>554290632
I'm about to play Rain World with 4 friends, where they were all introduced to Rain World by me. It has taken years and a playthrough with each, but it's finally time, hopefully.
>>
>>554289931
>You shouldn't be able to succeed if you have 0 talent, skill or imagination should you?
IRONIC

so you're saying that AAA studios that keep releasing the same old remake/remastered/sequel/prequel/enchanced version of the same IPs are the ones with skill and imagination and talent?!

seriously how are there so much dumb people in this world, its tiring..
>>
>>554289931
They all look like they fuck human men
>>
File: 1614551141506.png (702 KB, 879x968)
702 KB
702 KB PNG
>>554295143
>Be AAA dev
>Get given some rehashed shit or sequel to work on
>No say in it but still skilled enough to make something worthwhile

>Be indie
>Literally 0 management, can make whatever they want if they put enough time and effort into it
>Nope let's make another pixelshit 2D metroidvania because they're easy and make money
>>
>>554295465
The AAA companies produce mediocre derivative games with the occasional excellent derivatives.

THe indies produce shitty derivative games with occsional mediocre derivatives.
>>
File: Spoiler Image (29 KB, 610x345)
29 KB
29 KB JPG
>>554289931
>>554290270
>putting fez on there
We all know who OP actually is
>>
>>554293441
wont that be annoying with the camera moving all over the place
>>
>>554289931
I want to fuck 3 of these 8 characters
>>
>>554289931
>Ori and Hollow Knight
>generic pixelshit art style
Were you always this retarded, or did you have to work at it?
>>
>>554289931
I don’t see the issue. The ones you’re thinking of are the only ones that are successful. Tons of indie devs flood the market and most of them are worse. You can’t go into an indie game thinking that it’s going to be more than what the description says
>Nintendo eshop filled with vns and puzzle games
>>
>>554291076
if you think steam greenlight worked in any way whatsoever you're either underage or you've got mold in your brain
>>
>>554291076
Akshuly, roguelike level design is harder than prewritten, because it has to be replayable to "work".
Designing 30 OK levels is less work than designing one OK level generator.
>>
>>554289931
if its fun who cares
>>
ok OP, what indie dev touched your pp, be honest
>>
>>554289931
Pic unrelated? Or are you just retarded?
>>
>>554291760
Schizo
>>
File: BABA is .gif (642 B, 40x40)
642 B
642 B GIF
OP is HOMOSEXUAL
>>
>>554297463
>>554297463
>>554297463
>>554297463
I got schizophrenia at an IQ of 168, when I was 14. It happens when the mind has nowhere to go due to a strong belief system.
>>
>>554297109
I've neer played an indie action roguelike that produces anything but complete shit for levels compared to a proper game.

Designing proper hand made levels is a harder gap to clear since any jack ass seems to be able to make random levels but getting levels that are on par with the best platformers, shmups, or overhead shooters of the 80s and 90s is virtually unheard of in the western indie scene.
>>
>>554289931
Minit and Baba is You are good though dumbass
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
>>
>>554289931
Hey man, don't FUCK with Baba!
>>
>>554295465
You do understand that a lot of people LIKE pixel"""shit""" and metroidvanias, right? That's why they keep fucking making them.
>>
>>554289931
> clone of favorite game
None of the characters you've posted is from a clone of anything. The closest that I actually know the game of is Hollow Knight but even that's a fucking stretch. Unless you're going to claim "being a metroidvania" makes you a clone of metroid and/or castlevania, which is just fucking sad.
Also
> implying it takes 0 talent to make something that measures up even 10% to a classic/genre defining game
You have no appreciation for what goes into gamedev.
>>
>>554297830
>indie action roguelike
That's a significant narrowing.
I don't know about roguelites, I don't play those. I only played BoI and spelunky. The latter did have a shitty level gen for sure, the former is hard to grade.

I'm talking more about actual roguelikes.
Those literally can't rely on set pieces, because being able to memorize the map would ruin the challenge in many cases. And be impossible in many others, such as when the world is supposed to be unlimited.
For example, Caves of Qud has set pieces for some important locations and themed map generators for others.
>>
>>554290112
/thread
>>
>>554298392
> actual roguelikes
The term you're looking for is probably "traditional roguelike".
>>
File: 1586122824369.png (27 KB, 600x800)
27 KB
27 KB PNG
>be uni student
>no hobbies
>okay I'll just make a game cause I like them
>make a game to the best of my abilities
>people tell me it's shit
>I have my own game and they don't
feels good man
>>
>>554289931

At least 5 of these games are good, only one is bad, don't know about wuppo or minit. If you're going to bitch about something at least find something even slightly worth bitching about
>>
>>554298853
Which of these games would you call bad? I'm assuming it's not Rain World or Baba is You at least. You DO have taste, right anon?
>>
>>554289931
Either then FEZ being meh and idk about wuppo, all of these games are at least an 8. The art styles are also drastically different across all these games.
>>
>>554289931
Minut and Downwell are maybe the only two games on that list that qualify for the shit you're complaining about.
>>
>>554298392
"action roguelikes" are fundmentally bad games. A good action level is a tightly designed which is impossible for a procedual generator. Indie fags like action roguelikes because their perception is bad they can hardler appreciate the difference between a tightly designed level and the worst levels ever made (which includes all 'action roguelike levels' ever). The sole exception of Baroque, none of the "action roguelikes" have complex enough item tactics to be worth putting up with the shitty action for. And ironically indie fags never talk about Baroque because it wasn't made by a western hipster and its probably too overwhelming for them.

Real roguelikes are an entirly different situation. I have not played an such ones made by indies. I imagine they are better because while platformers simplicity appeals to the liberal brain the complexities of a real roguelike would turn them off. I once tried explaining how limited resources to identify items at the heart of roguelikes and the idea scared him.
>>
>>554299264
>8
Damn dude, you have some low standards.
I liked Baba and RW, but 8?

Still, good for you. It's better to have low standards than low fun.
>>
>>554299168

Fez

And then I guess it's not REALLY bad, aside from that pretentious ARG bullshit with the codes and shit in the endgame. I know you're supposed to separate author and art but I honestly think that the degree to which Phil Fish was stuck up his own ass came through in the game design
>>
>>554299443
> limited resources to identify items at the heart of roguelikes
> literal roulette wheel that can do anything from making your run twice as fun to essentially ending it is a good thing
I shiggy diggy.
>>
>>554299460
Baba and rain world are like 2 of my favs. Maybe not downwell, but I really did enjoy all those games
>>
>>554298617
He used the correct term. The opposite of a tradional roguelike is called an "indie abomination".
>>
>>554289931
>Player character is white
>/v/ still complains
You guys are unpleasable.
>>
>>554290112
Fpbp
>>
>>554299608
FTL, Nuclear Throne, and Lobotomy Corporation are great games. Most of the modern roguelike genre is bullshit though.
>>
>>554299443
>A good action level is a tightly designed which is impossible for a procedual generator.
Nothing is impossible here, it's just about it being a complex problem combining acceptable performance with acceptable fun.
If I had a hypothetical processor with infinite power and memory, I could write a generator that makes levels tightly designed just by considering all possible player paths and all possible levels, then narrowing it down to ones that require particular level of player mechanical skill and ability to predict probabilities.
With enough programmers working for me, I could write a limited version of that which works in reasonable time on normal computers.
So it's unfeasible, not impossible.

>I once tried explaining how limited resources to identify items at the heart of roguelikes
Not all roguelikes have identification.
Limited resources sure are important, but a great deal of them only have that as a part of early game, with end game expecting you to have a full "set" of the right items.
>>
>>554299568
That's what I was gonna say. Fez itself is pretty interesting as a game, and it's competent at least it's just the pretention surrounding it that makes it so hateable.
>>
>>554299862
>People go entirely out of their way to give the subgenre a separate term to soothe rectal pained autists
>The eternally assblasted spergs refuse to use it so that they can have an excuse to still keep getting mad at things 'not being real roguelikes'
Poetry
>>
>>554299862
No two of those games share a genre.
FTL is RTT+pause, NT is twin stick shooter (I think), LC doesn't really have a genre for itself and the closest would be RTS with pause.
"Traditional roguelikes" are a genre - a subtype of turn-based RPG.
>>
>>554300687
> No two of those games share a genre
Correct, just like Borderlands and BOTW don't share a genre. But they do share being open world, just as our games share being roguelike.
>>
>>554298146
Dumb customers are part of the problem for sure, but customers also don't know what they want.
Indies could give them a metroidvania with some unique elements to it and make a new experience that customers don't even know they want.
Instead Indies play it safe/don't have the imagination to craft something unique enough so they just copy paste super metroid + dark souls mechanics wow so original
>>
File: 1614365418828.png (458 KB, 1344x1128)
458 KB
458 KB PNG
>>554289931
All of top row + Downwell are good games though :-)
>>
>>554300389
Either you have no idea what a tightly designed level in the primitive genres even plays or feels like or you are totally unaware of what it would take to program it.

Without exception every single action roguelikes have had shit levels compared to the hand crafted ones. To the point where if you were reviewing the game soley based on level design every single one would be a 0/10 games. This has held true across all developers from the real companies to the small guys.
>>
>>554301443
> Dumb customers
No, you see, the people making pixel metroidvanias also like pixel metroidvanias. They make them because they like them.
> they just copy paste super metroid + dark souls mechanics
I don't know what the fuck kind of metroidvanias you're seeing, but okay I guess.
>>
>>554301443
>Indies could give them a metroidvania with some unique elements to it and make a new experience that customers don't even know they want.
Like what?
>>
>>554289931
Have you ever tried making a game? It's actually a shit ton of work.
>>
>>554289931
Wait, it gets better.

https://www.orangeislandgame.com/
>>
>>554290112
OP btfo'd
>>
>>554301612
>Either you have no idea what a tightly designed level in the primitive genres even plays or feels like or you are totally unaware of what it would take to program it.
I am aware of what it is and how to program it, but it seems that you probably expect something completely subjective from it, like "it looks good".
>>
>>554289931
i HATE pixels
>>
>>554298338
you wanna know how many games on steam are mislabeled as metroidvania's without actually being so?
>>
File: ﷽.gif (1.68 MB, 332x332)
1.68 MB
1.68 MB GIF
>>554289931
>most of the games pictured in the image were successful and original
>>
>>554289931
The top row are all great
Also name 1 game baba is a clone or even similar too. Rain world as well for that matter.
>>
>>554302782
>the actual game art looks ok
>promo art looks like utter tumblr trash
Conflicting
>>
>>554303127
rain world is a dumbed down and stripped down metroidvania without any of the things that actually make metroidvanias good
>>
Why there are so many replies to this lazy bait?
>>
>>554289931
Baba, HK, Minit and Downwell are all good. Idk about the rest looks like trash
>>
>>554289931
You make one then
>>
>>554289931
What game is Baba is You a ripoff of?
>>
>>554299862
>Lobcorp
>even remotely roguelike
?
You do one maybe two resets over the course of the game and most of those are skimming to the part you were at before that point.
>>
>>554302853
I'll use overhead shooters as an example. The tightest designs in overhead shooters are Outzone for the arcade and Nex Machina on higher difficulties. If you can play these with any degree of competency (getting far on one credit) it will be plain as daylight these are infinitly better then any procedually generated overhead shooters. Same if you compare high difficulty Cave games to shitty randomly generated bullet hell games.

I am almost positive your point of reference is just playing badly designed indie games if you think algorithmns have ever gotten close to real levels. Procedual games end up with levels that reward boring, passive playstyles while the proper ones make such playstyles impossible and push you towards aggressive playstyles. You can make huge risk moves all the time because you 100% trust the designer to not have a random hiccup appearing without warning that boxes you in. Because the games are so tightly designed the designer can give you very little in terms of hit points so things are always intense. This should be intuiativly true if you have any experience with proper action games of the arcade variety (which from I've seen inverserly correlates with liking indie games)
>>
>>554298837
based
>>
>>554289931
>how do we fix it

There is no problem, play indie games that aren't wildly popular or talked about on /v/ and develop an actual non-normalfag opinion.

There are millions of great indie games and all you faggots on /v/ ever fucking bother crying about is the AAA games and the most popular indie games possible.

If you don't like video games then go to another board.
>>
>>554290112
how will op ever recover?
>>
>>554293441
Wait, did they add multiplayer to it?
>>
>>554289931
You've obviously never played Rainworld or Hollow Knight
>>
>>554304080
i think you can do multiplayer in the arena
>>
>>554290112
obliterated, holy shit
>>
>>554302449
That's part of what makes any good artist. Creativity is part of what makes games fun and interesting.
Peddling the same game from 20+ years ago with some generic pixely graphics just shows how creatively vapid these Indies are.
>>
>>554289931
All 8 of those game are bretty good, desu.
Not the best games ever made, but they're still better than anything I've made (nothing).

>you shouldn't be able to succeed
What's it to you? This thread really REEKS of jealousy.
>>
>>554289931
There's a lot of indie 2D platformers with unique gameplay concepts.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fisholith/down-ward-game-owl-flight-pixel-platformer

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/9fingergames/zapling-bygone

You're probably just too stupid to look up anything that doesn't become really popular. And getting filtered by pixel art means you have no taste.
>>
>>554289931
>WHITE BAD
>>
>>554299460
I can't imagine having Baba below an 8. What's it like to hate puzzles?
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
>>
>>554297109
But this is how those games feel so soulless.
>>
>>554303748
>I'll use overhead shooters as an example.
I don't have much knowledge of those.

>I am almost positive your point of reference is just playing badly designed indie games
No, I'm talking about reference-free design at the moment.
>Procedual games end up with levels that reward boring, passive playstyles while the proper ones make such playstyles impossible and push you towards aggressive playstyles.
Because they do not take the exact route into account, due to dev time limitation.

Take platformer genre for example - it's simple and so good for this.
If I had infinite processing power, I could generate all possible levels and all possible routes, then filter it out to make levels that require any arbitrary amount of mechanical skill (precision, timings), time to win, item/ability use limitations and so on.
Since platformers are not heavy on logic and planning, this would easily beat most of hand-crafted games when it comes to generating levels that require skillful execution.

The problem is, writing this in real world would take more resources than writing a good platformer.
>>
>>554299613
kek
>>
>>554289931
Minit , baba is you , downwell and ori was good.
Don't care about the others
>>
>>554296313
which ones?
>>
>>554306205
I'm not saying with enough proccessing prower you couldn't have an ai do better then anything. Infinite monkies and shakespear.

It's just that it's not practical. So I'm not even sure why you brought it up? I assumed you were argueing it was practical and that's why you were makin the case.

Let's go with platformers since you know them. Think of all the different type of set pieces: platforms that move in a pattern, crumbling bridges, ice, wind, platforms that alternate between safe and electrified, water, grapple points. Then think about all the ways enemies can interact with them. Waiting near a platform for when you land, jumping at you to intercept you in mid air, patrolling to make pathing harder, staying back and shooting, homing towards you.

Think about the non-linearity of the pathing. Options when not running, options when running at top speed, options when you have a power up that gives you new mechanics. 'harder' routes that lead to extra coins or pick ups.

I could go on.

All of that already seems to exhausting to programming and test for. And God forbid you have high stanards for aestetics, making it look like a real location instead of a loose collection of tiles (compare Metal Slug or Strider to say Sonic 2D).

Then there is stuff that is difficult to quantify like the sense of 'flow'. Ninja Gaiden games have a great sense of flow, Crash 4 completly bombs at this, and figuring out why in a way that is quantifiable to an algorithmn is yet another task.
>>
hollow knight contrarianism is gay as fuck, it's a very good game in its genre with lots of content
>>
>>554290112
did op die
>>
>>554297549
seething indie dev.
>>
>>554290112
>no argument
>"fallacy" fallacy
I accept your concession.
>>
>>554289931
never played an indie game and never will
>>
>>554289931
If making an indie game is so easy, why don't you make one espousing your butthurt. Hipsters will eat up self-deprecating humor, after all.
>>
>>554303071
at least half of them are legitimately great
>>
>>554303309
/v/ literally relies on bait to have successful threads because it moves so fast.
>>
>>554289931
Indie games are the only remotely original games left. Everything now is open world garbage. We got a taste of greatness with the souls series, but the next time you see anything like Shadow of Colossus in terms of artistic merit, it's gonna be an indie developer that makes it.
>>
>>554307985
This creates a baits arm race where threads have to relay less on substance and more bait each day. It's getting to the point where its indecipherable from a Kotaku frontpage filled with clickbait.

That's what /v/'s taste lead to
>>
>>554303197
>diversity themes
>FIRST EVAR QUEER DEV

Yeah.....
>>
>>554289931
People who talk like this have never tried to create anything and have no idea the unbelievable amount of effort it takes to create anything
>>
>>554304371
Arena???
>>
File: indie devs vs artists.gif (410 KB, 1651x890)
410 KB
410 KB GIF
>>
>>554298837
Super based bro
>>
>>554289931
>Baba is You
Great
>Rain World
Great
>Hollow Knight
OK
>Ori
OK
>Wuppo
Bad
>Fez
OK
>Minit
Bad
>Downwell
Bad
>>
File: peace rat.gif (175 KB, 476x320)
175 KB
175 KB GIF
>>554302782
Orange Islands was peak PokeKino.
>>
>>554308692
>dude why does a person who has to do the art work and the coding use simple sprites?
Take a wild fucking guess.
>>
>>554308692
It's funny because the left unironically looks better than the right's awful shading
>>
>>554309062
You're delusional
>>
>>554309059
The idea of having someone who is good at art and someone who is good at coding team up is as old as gaming.

Thats actually what usually happpens '1 man teams' a rarity even in indie. Its just the artists they get all suck.
>>
>>554309320
Let's see your game dick head. If you hate indy games so much, make one.
>>
File: fotns.png (367 KB, 600x409)
367 KB
367 KB PNG
>>554289931
>>
>>554309409
Ok let's see your game if your so dissatisfied with indy games. Less bitching more deving.
>>
File: header.jpg (30 KB, 460x215)
30 KB
30 KB JPG
>>554309412
Here is my game, I based it off you.
>>
File: 20210226080250_1.jpg (291 KB, 1920x1080)
291 KB
291 KB JPG
>>554289931
Huh Huh. But you forgot one game with white character.
>>
File: 1561843786668.jpg (36 KB, 344x347)
36 KB
36 KB JPG
>>554309640
That's what I thought. You can't dev shit and you can only run you fucking mouth.
>>
>>554290112
OP and his shit argument have been nuked from orbit
>>
>>554309724
>YOU HAVE TO MAKE A GAME BEFORE YOU CAN SAY WHAT LOOKS GOOD OR BAD
>>
>>554309546
many artists are bad
>well you're point is refuted because you have not created something with good art

I think indie devs just prefer bad art. The ugliness of their art preference reflects the ugliness of their souls. It is not HARD to find talented artists (literally just go to artstation and pick an artist). Indie devs just intionally pass them up in favor of vomit.
>>
>>554309972
Wow if there was only some way to make indy games they way you want them.
>>
>>554290112
First post-san i kneel
>>
>>554307216
>It's just that it's not practical. So I'm not even sure why you brought it up?
You said that designing a good generator is "impossible" and disagreed with me when I said it's just "unfeasible".
By showing that a solution exists, I prove that it is indeed possible, just limited by implementation details.

>Think about the non-linearity of the pathing. Options when not running, options when running at top speed, options when you have a power up that gives you new mechanics. 'harder' routes that lead to extra coins or pick ups.
Routing is an AI problem. Relatively easy in this case, since platformers have limited state, so planning is very limited as well.
A route finder could be constrained by difficulty settings, like reaction time, input time precision and so on.

A generator could consider set pieces randomly, then check if a route from start to finish exists.

It probably wouldn't generate breathtaking levels, but when was the last time you played an 8+/10 level?

Randomly generated levels offer a different kind of challenge: you never know what you're going to get.
The platformer example kinda breaks here, since "platformer that surprises you" would pretty much be a separate genre, but in many games, the unpredictability and its management are a big part of the fun.
>>
>>554310110
No, because I know I would make a bad looking game, So i decide to just play fun and good looking games instead
>>
>>554310062
Literally just make your own game. It's not hard anymore and then indy games will be marginally more the way you want them to be.
>>
>>554289931
didn't the fez dev say that he spent something like four years developing it and that if it didn't do well he was going to literally off himself?
>>
File: shoa.png (392 KB, 610x435)
392 KB
392 KB PNG
>>554289931
>white characters are bad
>>
>>554290112
based, op btfo
>>
>>554308692
Most indie devs have better pixel artwork than left.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3SxYMu5qGY

Also right loses the novel-like imagination aspect from pixel art as a stylistic choice.
>>
>>554298837
this guy fucks
>>
>>554289931
and yet, they're the most soulful games on the market. op pic extremely related
>>
File: indie2010s-3by3expanded.jpg (833 KB, 1000x1000)
833 KB
833 KB JPG
>>554289931
at least some indie games are actually games. unfortunately, the majority of indieshitters don't WANT anything that isn't a generic metroidvania or roguelike with black-and-white silhouette mascots.
>>
>>554310669
Every game in that chart is bad except Battle Block which is ok.
>>
>>554310948
u srsly shit talking octodad and fuckin marble it up?
>>
>>554289931
>How do we fix the indie problem?
No need to do anything about it. The money will run dry eventually and the ones merely following a fad will move on, while the ones who were genuinely passionate about development will either continue making successful games that people enjoy or move up into corporate positions or other fields.

This situation was unavoidable, by the way. When you have a society where millions of kids worldwide grow up playing hundreds of games for thousands of hours because both their parents are working and they have no one to watch them, you're going to get at least hundreds of thousands of young adults with inadequate life experience who are convinced that they are "meant" to be artists or critics or whatever despite not having any talent for it. To an extent, you need some of these people, for three reasons: 1) they sometimes make for hard workers; 2) because not all of art can be masterpieces, masterpieces are made incrementally after many iterations of incomplete mediocrities prior; and 3) because the world is vast and tastes vary, and there will probably always be an audience who prefers playing 2D games or whatever, just like how there are still people who have no interest in video games at all and prefer to see live theater or whatever. Rather than see it as a "problem" or as a sign of "decline" or something like that, realize that evolution isn't a linear process, it's all over the place and there are periods of cultural recession and repetition here and there.
>>
>>554289931
At least six of those are good games.
>>
>>554310669
>Ace of Seafood
best taste ITT.
>>
>>554289931
AAA bootlicker
>>
File: Blue.png (245 KB, 303x319)
245 KB
245 KB PNG
>>554289931
You solve the indie problem by not playing shitty indie games made by creeps, for scrubs.
>>
>>554310143
>The platformer example kinda breaks here, since "platformer that surprises you" would pretty much be a separate genre, but in many games, the unpredictability and its management are a big part of the fun.

There's already ways to do unpredictability in these old genres. The hammer bro might throw pattern a or pattern b, it might jump, high jump or not jump at all. You might have arrived with the fire flower or not.

Random generation also removes the element of memorization and route planning. That's part of the fun.

I beleive there is room for random elements in platformers (not entirly different levels but minor tweaks on the levels). So far it's not being used to improve the game but as a way for no-talent level designers to make 0/10 levels for gamers that have such as bad appreciation for level design they can't tell the difference.

I am EXTREMLY skeptical about whether random levels can be good. So far I have not played a randomly generated arcade style game that hasn't bored me to the point of being unplayable. If you can make an algorthimn that consistantly makes 8+/10 levels it might be possible to create new design philosphies that work with it, but that's purely hypothetical. The technology does not exist.
>>
They can't keep getting away with it!
>>
>>554289931
>i'm just gonna post actual good games and bait replies
What an autist. Get a life.
>>
>>554289931
Such an aggressively stupid post from you OP.
>>
>>554289931
Seriously based OP, indieshitters will seethe because they've been sold the "my game is art because of pixels" lie for over a decade.
>>
hollow knight is a literal masterpiece. ori too
>>
>>554312131
It's hard to expect arcade games to have good generators. It's a genre that was popular back then when machines were pathetic and nowadays it's mostly indies, with tiny teams.
With popularization of AI, it may become a reality in next decade or so.

>So far it's not being used to improve the game but as a way for no-talent level designers to make 0/10 levels for gamers that have such as bad appreciation for level design they can't tell the difference.
The same no-talent level designers would create 0/10 levels by hand and the only difference would be that they wouldn't be replayable.
The problem here is level designers, not their tools.
>>
>>554289931
>>554302884
>>554313256
>>
>>554310948
I like Kero Blaster :-)
>>
>>554304080
There's mods for it:
"Jolly coop", meant for coop (duh), which means the camera for all players can only follow one player but switch between players. Has some godies like picking up other players on your back so they all can share a grabber worm or hitch a ride past platforming sections too hard for them

"Monk", meant for pvp in the campaign map, which allows players to wander around with their own camera but won't sincronize creratures, so you might find a player fighting something you can't see
lookup some coop vids, they're fun , and a reminder I don't have friends to play coop rainworld with
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
>>
File: nostalgiadelusion.jpg (592 KB, 1800x1000)
592 KB
592 KB JPG
>>554313710
>>
>>554290112
1
>>
>>554310669
Wattam is unplayable on console
>>
>>554304521
>Creativity is part of what makes games fun and interesting.
meme word
>>
>>554290112
BASED
>>
>>554313710
it's funny because most of the games on the left have better gameplay than the ones on the right
>>
>>554308927
Nah it was a godawful filler side arc that derail the story.

Just like thr Noah arc in YuGiOh
>>
>>554314125
> left uses the most deliberately dreary games and dreary areas FROM those games
> right uses games considered childish and juvenile
> as opposed to the original image where the left is just average levels and the right is moments intended to be highly "cinematic"
>>
>>554314125
gottem
>>
>>554304521
> Creativity is part of what makes games fun and interesting
Yeah, but you don't have to introduce a brand new mechanic every time you make a game. That's cancerous Miyamoto-tier thinking.
If you can take mechanics more or less the same, plus or minus QoL, as a game from 20 years ago and make enjoyable levels for it, then you've still made a good game.
>>
>>554314673
>left uses the most deliberately dreary games and dreary areas FROM those games
so... exactly what the original image does with modern games, then? thanks for proving my point.
>right uses games considered childish and juvenile
as opposed to mature games for mature gamers such as banjo-kazooie and toy story 2: buzz lightyear to the rescue.
>>
>>554314125
Games on the right are actually imitating the older style. Even with brighter colors, some of them look too polished and sanitized though.
There wasn't a movie game walking simulator problem 20 years ago.
>>
File: 1620077805884.jpg (3 KB, 125x125)
3 KB
3 KB JPG
>>554314673
>right uses games considered childish and juvenile
lmaooooooo the games on the left of >>554313710 are for literal children. fucking buzz lightyear and a bunch of cartoon animals
>>
File: 10_indie_games_tg.jpg (33 KB, 656x285)
33 KB
33 KB JPG
>>554315375
>There wasn't a movie game walking simulator problem 20 years ago.
You know who caused the walking simulator problem? Indie shitters.
>>
>>554315581
Funny how indie walking simulators get so little traction these days compared to the immense pull of AAA ones.
>>
File: shenmue2.jpg (58 KB, 466x473)
58 KB
58 KB JPG
>>554315375
>There wasn't a movie game walking simulator problem 20 years ag-
>>
>>554290112
This man single handedly obliterated OP's anus
OP has surpassed beyond a faggot with the amount of ass-blasting this dude brought out
He is now a Mega Faggot.
FPBP
>>
>>554314585
>bing bing wahoo collectathons
>better gameplay
>>
>>554315843
i liked how Batman did it with it just being a ton of puzzles to solve with different gadgets
>>
>>554315843
Than walking simulators? Yes.
>>
i was interested in rain world , should i get it ?
>>
>>554289931
>tfw the character of the game i want to make looks sort of like this
Does it still count if the empty blank eyes are a plot thing and after a certain fight the eyes get actual pupils
>>
>>554314125
NOOOOOOO DELETE THIS
>>
>>554316048
>open world action games
>walking sims
>>
>>554316114
Yes. It can be shit sometimes but it is fun if it "clicks" for you.
>>
File: gonehomelogo.png (2.18 MB, 1680x900)
2.18 MB
2.18 MB PNG
>>554315697
I know right? It really goes to show that indies can't hold a candle to the skill and craftsmanship of a AAA studio. Even modern "movie games" like TLOU2 have actual gameplay instead of just walking around and sad music like indie shitters try and pull.
>>
>>554316227
"Action" that amounts to a few press X to awesomes punctuated by the dreaded "walk and talk" cutscene (as if the thing from Half-Life anyone liked was the fucking unskippable not-quite-a-cutscene bullshit) is indeed a walking simulator, anon.
>>
>>554314125
damn he got BTFO
>>
>>554316417
Action that includes combos, stances, gadgets, etc. against multiple enemy types and bosses along with quests and traversal mechanics since it's open world.
>walking sim
>>
>>554316114
Pirate it first.
It's a frustrating game that requires many hours to properly appreciate, discard or consider mediocre.
>>
>>554316326
No, it's just that AAA studios have a makeup very specifically beneficial to the creation of walking simulators. They focus heavily on artists, writers, and voice acting talent, which is perfect for something mostly linear and narrative/visual focused. No amount of interesting gameplay can make it past the focus groups, so game designers, people with actual ideas, and so on are naturally filtered out over time.
>>
>>554313673
>0/10 levels by hand and the only difference would be that they wouldn't be replayable
The replayability of platformers is decided mostly by the quality of the level. I reject the idea that action-roguelikes have replayabilit. They are not worth playing once, let alone another time.

>The problem here is level designers, not their tools
Yes. I'm convinced no tools can fix a bad indie dev. They will misuse whatever tools are given to them.

The people making these indie arcade genres are not familiar with the old classics (or if they are only by save-state scumming thereby giving them a completly different interpretation). Their too cucked for them because they are hardcore. And being hardcore is essential to good level design (the entire point of a level in a platformer or overhead shooter is to try to kill the player after all).

They are mentally disturbed so they create ugliness instead of beuaty (hence all the artistic side of level design in indie games is bad).

Finally they are filled with so many other mental vices: hipsterism, ressentiment towards the successful, anti-japanese, that any lessons would be against their nature. Challenge gives them anxiety and the idea of learning from the Japanese rather then other hipster fags violates their group think.

All of this actually creates a culture that makes it harder to learn proper level design. If you search for examples of good level design in run n gun you will get garbage like Cuphead. How many people even know that Hardcorps Uprising exist? Let alone its the most evolved form of the run n gun ever made?

One of my life goals has is to gather up every decent arcade-game player and start a cabal dedicated to producing proper learning and design. Going to do that after I'm done with my game.
>>
>>554289931
white on dark background is best contrast and makes your character easier to follow.
>>554295750
Who is that?
>>
>>554316417
as opposed to no action at all and just hopping around to collect the glowing puzzle piece?
>>
>>554316326
i love that retards in these threads keep bringing up Gone Home like it's not nearly a decade old
you fuckers can't even name new "walking simulators" because "walking simulators" like Gone Homo and such being the hip and popular thing is nearly a decade old dead fad you're still hung up on
>>
>>554316676
>They are mentally disturbed so they create ugliness instead of beuaty
Stopped reading there, I don't want to waste my time with schizo babble.
>>
>>554316762
Which is twice as interactive as the absolute peak of most BIG modern games.
>>554316639
All that boils down to pressing maybe one or two extra buttons.
>>
>>554315581
No one gave this GotY awards or anything, and it was mainly journos that don't even like games who cared about this.
And it's okay for a solo dev to make a walker while they're learning how to make games, it's not okay for a AAA budget studio.

>>554315712
Shenmue is more of a simulator game in general, and was mainly revolutionary for its graphics.
>>
>>554316668
It's good that "ideas guys" and stupid indie gimmick features are filtered out so people with actual talent can create an immersive experience that people actually want to play.
>>
File: 1618845232639.gif (2.18 MB, 384x378)
2.18 MB
2.18 MB GIF
>>554289931
it's....almost.....as if......it's a g e n r e
>>
>>554316676
>If you search for examples of good level design in run n gun you will get garbage like Cuphead
Cuphead is specifically taking inspiration from Alien Soldier, not Contra, where the bosses are the focus instead of the levels. The devs themselves said as much in interviews and the only reason they even added levels is because people kept bitching about the lack of levels when they showed it at E3.
>>
>>554316895
>All that boils down to pressing maybe one or two extra buttons.
And bing bing wahoo collectathons don't even have that
>>
>>554289931
I don't know the ones on the bottom, but all of the games in the top row are very fun
also you sound like a massive faggot
>>
>>554314585
Yeah, that's the point of the bait, isn't it?
>>
>>554316997
> people with actual talent
Are the ones who get filtered out, anon. If you have talent you don't spend weeks of twelve hour work days polishing the main character's left asscheek.
> immersive experience
Immersion is for unironic cuckolds. I don't give a fuck about being "part of" the game or its story, I care about it being enjoyable.
> people actually want to play
"People" being journalists, hipsters, and normalfags.

What you call "stupid indie gimmick features" is what everyone who actually LIKES video games calls "gameplay".
>>
File: 1610989089971.jpg (5 KB, 320x336)
5 KB
5 KB JPG
>>554316676
>after I'm done with my game
>>
>>554316417
>as if the thing from Half-Life anyone liked was the fucking unskippable not-quite-a-cutscene bullshit
journos actually loved that obnoxious shit, which is why it started getting forced into every game.
>>
>>554317110
That's not even true for most games, and for those it is, they're still a hell of a lot more interactive than that. Basic movement in the shittiest 3D Mario is ten times better than the most advanced movement AND combat together in, say, nu-GOW.
>>
>>554316895
>Which is twice as interactive as the absolute peak of most BIG modern games.
Lmfao what a cope. AAA games make indie trash look like a joke gameplay wise and visuals wise. Indies literally can't compete.
>>
>>554290112
We need more posts like this one
>>
>>554317545
> Rooty tooty point n shooty is better gameplay than something where you have actual precise input, movement, and combat
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
>>
>>554317472
>Basic movement in the shittiest 3D Mario
WHOA he can jump THREE TIMES!!! and WALL JUMP EPIC STYLE!!!
>>
File: dear-esther.jpg (232 KB, 1600x740)
232 KB
232 KB JPG
>>554316778
>NOOO YOU CANT TALK ABOUT THAT GAME IT DOESNT COUNT!
I love how indie shitters seethe when you bring up that indie games are garbage shovelware that rely on an artsy fartsy gimmicks while being about as deep as a bowl of soup.
>>
>>554317876
This may be a foreign concept to you, but you have actual control over Mario's position, the jump isn't a cutscene specifically crafted for him to vault an obstacle.
>>
>>554290112
KWAB, how will OPetty ever recover?
>>
>>554317986
I pressed the button and made him jump THREE TIMES!!!!!!!!!
>>
File: 933055-pubg-2.jpg (111 KB, 1280x720)
111 KB
111 KB JPG
>>554317634
Yes? It takes more skill to play a shooting games than ones where you just hop around collecting coins.
>>
>>554317889
>Dear Esther
You're literally proving my point. Dear Esther, like Gone Home, is from near a fucking decade ago. For God's sake, Dear Esther is an entire year older.
You're seething over a fad from eight or nine years ago, here.
>>
>>554318123
Not when the game does half of the aiming for you.
>>
>>554318123
>point at the enemy
>press the button
>it dies
>>
File: pubgmiramarguide.jpg (502 KB, 1280x721)
502 KB
502 KB JPG
>>554318216
Turn on free aim scrub. Shooters require the precise input and movement as well as needing to predict opponents that boring bing bing games (literally designed for babies, mind you) don't.
>>
>>554289931
Obviously that image is funny OP, but I’m not sure your argument stands on all four legs. Games are completely derivative now but let’s not forget game studios are bigger offenders here turning just as uninspired stuff but at incredible budgets.
The best thing you can do, while increasingly burdensome, is dig through and find gems that avoid these trends, but more importantly point to older games that these offending games terribly rip from
>>
File: 1601561308287.jpg (37 KB, 320x391)
37 KB
37 KB JPG
>>554318198
>noooo stop posting those games they dont count
You're proving MY point lol.
>>
>>554291247
I get it, cause those characters are white right haha
>>
File: 1521133718940.jpg (28 KB, 384x390)
28 KB
28 KB JPG
>people unironically making the "if you can't make a game you can't criticize games" argument
just because i can't play the piano doesn't mean i can't tell when it's being played poorly
>>
>>554317080
Boss level=still levels

Their bosses are still nonsense where randomization plays a huge factor in success. Some of it just felt like nonsense. Had victories were I felt I didn't earn it and loses were I felt the deck was just stacked against me. Levels are still save-state like checkpoints where the fights last 2 minutes, and then its gone for good with no mastery involved unless you want to play for score.

I still think Cuphead is good relative to other indie games. It's obvious they at least TRIED to learn from the propre games and if they make a sequal or two might even master it. Doesn't look like they are interested in games anymore though.
>>
>>554318606
>point at enemy
>you were too slow because you only play indie garbage pixel games
>you die
winner winner chicken dinner/victory royale for me
>>
>>554319090
>too slow
>at aiming a mouse pointer
okay anon
>>
>>554318781
> Shooters require the precise input and movement
Shooters don't fucking allow precise movement anymore, it takes like a year to change direction and you don't have any universal momentum. Come back to me when you play something in Source engine, or better yet Unreal or Quake.
>>
>>554290112
absolutely destroyed lmao
>>
>>554318938
What point are you trying to even trying to make? That some indie games are basically just vehicles for lame stories instead of actually trying to be games? Yeah, no shit. Same goes for AAA games. The difference is that AAA games are still actively doing that, whereas all the games you're posting are from nearly TEN WHOLE YEARS AGO.
>>
File: 1576188456712.jpg (569 KB, 915x958)
569 KB
569 KB JPG
>>554319090
>>554319225
Both of you are unspeakably retarded.
>>
>>554319225
Yep, that's what happens when indie gamers play real games.
>>
>>554319535
Holy fucking shit this is the most retarded argument I've seen in all my years on this website.
I've seen more actual skill-based indie games than I have AAAs that require even the slightest modicum of effort.
>>
>>554319262
I pretty much only play shooters for their campaign.

If modern shooters are low skill what accounts for the skill gap? What makes one player win and another win if both can achieve a high level of aiming?
>>
File: LMAOOOOOOOOOO.png (305 KB, 1014x818)
305 KB
305 KB PNG
>>554319370
>NOOO THOSE GAMES DONT COUNT THEYRE OLD (for the third time)
as opposed to new indie garbage being churned out daily? cope your life away indie scrub.
>>
>>554319684
> I pretty much only play shooters for their campaign.
You're an entirely different breed of human that I've never seen before, anywhere. What the fuck.
> If modern shooters are low skill what accounts for the skill gap?
There's a lot of skill expression in how good you can get at aiming and predicting your opponent, it's just that both of them have gotten far easier with the modern lack of actual movement tech.
>>
>>554319672
Sure you have, and I'm the Pope.
>>
>>554319798
None of those are receiving any real attention, as opposed to the AAA walking simulators like TLoU.
>>
>>554289931
it's almost as if to make this shitty comparation you took wildly different character designs that only share their main color, from games that play different from each other, to tell one of the most retarded arguments I've seen on this fucking page, only then to shit on pixel art because "hur dur pixelshit very easy to make" even though is extremely time consuming to make good pixel art for a small indie team, sincerely go fuck yourself and never post shit like this again
>>
>>554319914
Please tell me how Nuclear Throne is low skill.
Now tell me how TLoU2 is high skill.
>>
>>554309412
After seeing op I was waiting to scroll to something like this.
It’s not like game producers or development team heads exist, you need to learn to code or your input is useless! lmfao
>>
>>554319798
>as opposed to new indie garbage being churned out daily?
It's an entertainment industry, retard. Garbage gets churned out every day en masse, and people rightfully ignore most of them. You're grasping at straws pretty fucking hard here.
>>
File: 1466280015616.jpg (23 KB, 640x559)
23 KB
23 KB JPG
>>554319945
ROFL so now your argument is that indie games arent shovelware garbage because no one is talking about them? GG I accept your concession.
>>
AAA studios have yet to make something as good as this. so i'll take indie games any day of the week.
>>
>>554320253
> indie games arent shovelware garbage because no one is talking about them
I'm saying that indie games aren't walking simulators because nobody talks about indie walking simulators. They do talk about other indie games, though. You know, like Minecraft.
>>
>>554320061
>dont touch the pre programmed enemy bullet pattern
Wow what a hard game pause NOT.
>>
>>554320510
By that logic no videogame is hard because everything is pre-programmed.
>>
File: Yoshi_Vomit.png (11 KB, 320x120)
11 KB
11 KB PNG
https://youtu.be/mTF9jKaGV38
https://youtu.be/F-BA-D3yCfE
https://youtu.be/OeSX0PivlYE
https://youtu.be/RfsifCT3h-U
https://youtu.be/iC1u_KJ31XQ
>indie devs
>>
>>554320360
They are, that's only a fraction of the entire list that goes on for PAGES. There are also indie 2d visual novels if walking is too much work for you too LOL.
>>
>>554320797
But the indie games people actually care about are the ones like Minecraft, which has more gameplay than any AAA game from the past decade.
>>
>>554320253
>>554320797
The vast majority of games, indie or not, are shovelware garbage. Just like how most movies/music/art is shit. That's the nature of a medium where it's theoretically possible for anyone to make something. Trying to argue that indie games are shit because people make shovelware is like trying to argue the PS2 was shit because it had thousands of garbage shovelware titles.
>>
>>554320640
>Player vs player is pre-programmed.
Delusional indiecoper, bye.
>>
>>554320360
>indie game
>Minecraft

Man that game is the most bureaucratic nightmare on earth now, that only leeches off it’s dedicated indie dev base
The base game is so incredibly atrocious, and it milks some of the worst aspects that came from the community’s contributions into it.
>>
>>554320510
Show me footage right now of you 1ccing Crimzon Clover or you lose your rights to ever talk about bullet patterns again.
>>
>>554321076
You can simulate player versus player by giving an NPC entity the ability to aim its pre-programmed pattern. Like Nuclear Throne does.
>>
>>554321014
So on steam right now. Put on the indie tag. Then sort by newest. Click the first 10 games.

Then go here https://www.bestrandoms.com/get-random-playstation-2-games

Tell me which you would rather play. Repeat as many times as you wish.

Indie is trash. (inb4 but those are not TRUE INDIE)
>>
>>554320895
Which Minecraft are you playing? Most kids with IQ have moved onto roblox, Minecraft is a hollow game where literally nothing happens, that game is all imagination, it’s like calling sticks and stones you found outside as the premiere AAA game design
>>
>>554321275
Just did that. I'd prefer the indie games.
Also, using PS2 when PS5 is modern is literally cheating.
>>
>>554320789
Jesus christ.
>>554321014
Wrong. AAA game studios can't afford to waste money on garbage no one will play. When they do make crap there are actual consequences for them and their shareholders while indies can just be forgotten until they churn out more garbage they hope is an epic hit.
>>
>>554321542
>AAA game studios can't afford to waste money on garbage
Incorrect. They put their money into garbage all the time. People just play it because it comes from AAA studios.
It takes a game being objectively, obviously, OFFENSIVELY bad, like fucking Anthem, for a developer to actually feel heat for developing garbage.
>>
>>554309062
lol
>>
>>554321542
But studios turn out garbage all the time, and try to make up the money for it on big tent pole projects, you’re an amateur kid
>>
>>554321275
owned lol
>>
>>554321275
That's not even close to a fair comparison and you know it. The PS2 was a console with a fixed lifespan that required at least a moderate budget to develop for; until the Wii came along, it was still the easiest to develop shovelware for. This does not mean it didn't get shovelware; that was my point. Steam, by comparison, is piss fucking easy to develop for because literally anyone can toss their game on there for a fucking pittance. Yes, there's going to be shovelware, but arguing that LITERALLY ALL INDIE GAMES are dogshit because Steam makes it easy to publish shovelware is fucking retarded.
>>
>>554289931
>several of the games you posted are some of the best games of the past few years

not really making any argument are we?
>>
>>554321776
Garbage by AAA standards is something indie devs wish they could accomplish. At least the AAA have fucking graphics that are not puke
>>
>>554290112
strawman-sama, I kneel...
>>
>>554310110
But I want them good, and good games already exist lol. Why would I want to play some shitty "indy" game?
>>
>>554289931
At least it’s not Undertale. That’s a terrible game.
>>
File: 1597785264225.png (28 KB, 492x638)
28 KB
28 KB PNG
>>554290112
good post
>>
>>554321873
This is the worst post I've read today. The worst indie games I've ever played are better than average by AAA gameplay standards.
>>
>>554309412
>he hasn't done any dev, he can't critique art!
lol. this is probably one of the stupidest things I've read this week. so here's my critique of the indy artwork. the color choice is fucking awful, everything is completely mediocre and it looks like a grayish blob because of the overzealous use of unsaturated colors.
>>
>>554291076
Fnaf didn't pass greenlight and that game is kino
>>
>>554321813
I'm replying to a guy who literally said random indie games are better then random ps2 games. It's as far as it fucking gets.

Also your arguement basically admits indie devs will create poop given the slightiest opportunity. AAA companies could do the same but they have an actual reputation to uphold.
>>
>>554321873
Bro Your arguments are incoherent
>>
>>554322000
Because eventually you want to play games that have gameplay, and AAA devs get more allergic to that by the second. Just look at the difference between old and new God of War.
>>
ITT: argues with people who never played the game they hate
>>
>>554322083
> a guy who literally said random indie games are better then random ps2 games
No he didn't. He said that the PS2 library is great in spite of being mostly shovelware, because people can ignore the shovelware in favor of the immense number of great games. It's the same as the indie scene in that regard.
>>
>>554322023
https://store.steampowered.com/search?tags=492%2C4400%2C3871

Here are the worst indie games.

If you say you would rather play them the worst AAA games you are either lying or eat your own feces for entertainment.
>>
>>554321681
>It takes a game being objectively, obviously, OFFENSIVELY bad, like fucking Anthem, for a developer to actually feel heat for developing garbage.
You mean like the hundreds of indie garbage games that are made until one that's actually halfway decent comes out? AAA flops are rare because their games are MADE to succeed and be enjoyable. Indie games are garbage because they're mostly made by people with zero talent and zero idea of what anyone wants to play.
>>
File: Retarded_or_trolling.jpg (33 KB, 300x392)
33 KB
33 KB JPG
>>554321542
>When they do make crap there are actual consequences for them and their shareholders while indies can just be forgotten until they churn out more garbage they hope is an epic hit.
This is the most incorrect statement I have ever heard and I'm convinced I'm being trolled, but I'm going to respond anyways because I'm literally autistic and I'll be thinking about how fucking stupid this was all goddamn day if I don't.
First, if an indie dev actually wants to put effort into the game they make (regardless of whether or not it actually turns out good) this is going to take them fucking years. A solodev will be looking down the barrel of 4-8 years worth of time sunk into the game their making before they can even hope to see pay unless they go for early access, which has its own risks. They have no marketing budget beyond what they can afford out of pocket, which means they're gambling entirely on word of mouth and social media marketing done by hand 99% of the time. This means that most indie devs, regardless of whether or not their game is good, are going to drown in the pools of pajeets spamming the stores of every game market with asset flips after spending 4-8 years of their time and god knows how much out of their pockets on their passion projects.
>>
>>554321776
>But studios turn out garbage all the time
The other poster already admitted that their "garbage" games actually sell and are desirable. Meanwhile indie trash is released and forgotten every day because it's just that - trash that no one asked for or cares about.
>>554321873
This is pretty much /thread and any replies are gonna be cope lmao.
>>
>>554322282
Whats even sader is that Anthem became a mediocre game after it was patched. Maybe not playable for months on end but you could play it for a few hours and have a good time.

Even bad AAA games are better then all but a handful of indie games.
>>
>>554322280
In short yes

In long, you sound like you would rather play sudoku than Tetris, and your arguments are incoherent
>>
>>554322282
> AAA flops are rare because their games are MADE to succeed and be enjoyable
MADE to succeed means it's meant to be just barely inoffensive to the largest number of people possible rather than actively appealing to a smaller audience. Of course AAA games rarely flop when they use this kind of strategy.
If you actually gave a fuck about video games for their gameplay, you'd find this more offensive than a truly bad game because at least the bad game is usually trying to appeal to SOMEONE, unlike the good game.
>>
>>554322083
>I'm replying to a guy who literally said random indie games are better then random ps2 games.
You replied to me and that's literally NOT what I said, are you an ESL?
>>554321014
>Trying to argue that indie games are shit because people make shovelware is like trying to argue the PS2 was shit because it had thousands of garbage shovelware titles.
Please tell me where I said Indie games are better than PS2 games, there.
>>
File: gi jaw.jpg (5 KB, 224x224)
5 KB
5 KB JPG
>someone out there is seething like a rabid madman every time I start up Hollow Knight, or do another playthrough of Terraria

Golly, as if I didn't have enough incentive to enjoy these games as is.
>>
>>554322280
Yes, I would rather play them than the worst AAA games. Look at that, they have actual mechanics. Some are skill based, most are puzzles. The worst AAA games are barely games, they're a few hours of holding the stick in a certain direction and occasionally pressing a button or two.
>>
>>554322540
Sorry wrong reply quoted, can’t be bothered to find it meant it for this fag anyway >>554322823
>>
>>554322506
Not reading your paragraph of indie cope. AAA studios are beholden to shareholders and there are legal consequences for them if they lie to investors and deliver a shit product that loses money. Indie devs can just say oh well and be forgotten in the wave of other shovelware shit that the other talentless devs churn out.
>>
>>554322805
Normally I'd call people who "like" things more because other people hate them contrarian faggots, but in your case the people you seem to engender the hatred of are even worse contrarians, so on this rare occasion I deem thee based.
Do people actually, like, REPLAY Hollow Knight? I find the start way too slow now that I've experienced the end.
>>
File: boner_stop.jpg (21 KB, 324x557)
21 KB
21 KB JPG
>>554320789
>that first video
Please tell me that's a girl.
>>
File: 1614640020390.gif (1.79 MB, 320x193)
1.79 MB
1.79 MB GIF
>>554322608
>its inoffensive and enjoyable so it's... bad
LMAO indie gamers are insane
>>
>>554323209
A bad but interesting game is always better than a mediocre but bland game.
>>
>>554290112
blown the fuck out
>>
File: Untitled.png (6 KB, 408x152)
6 KB
6 KB PNG
>>554323078
It's good for a playthrough once a year. In terms of rabid replayability, that title goes to Super Metroid thanks to the insane romhacking scene. Seriously, you should see how much content there is.
>>
>>554323209
> inoffensive is... good
No, faggot. A billion lukewarm games that were meant to appeal to 90% of humans are worth less than one great game that was meant to appeal to 10% of people. This is why people shit on games like nu-God of War, because they're fucking lukewarm garbage.
>>
>>554323326
>a bad game is better than a good game
Delusional.
>>
>>554323364
>games appeal to 90% of humans
>NOOOO THEYRE BAD
Indie cope.
>>
>>554323421
> mediocre is good
Mediocre is mediocre. Anyone who actually likes video games prefers unsafe, sometimes-great-sometimes-awful stuff to safe, focus-tested bland garbage.
>>
>>554323523
> games appeal just enough to earn a purchase from the drooling masses
> NOOOOOOOOO THEYRE GOOD
> games appeal to a specific audience enough to not only earn a purchase but get dedicated FANS
> NOOOO THEYRE BAD
AAA cocksucker cope.
>>
>>554323541
>anyone who actually likes video games likes bad games
Delusional.
>>
>>554323421
>mediocre and bland
>good
retard
>>
>>554289931
market forces will make bad indie games fail and good games, indie or otherwise, prevail. if people dont buy them much in the future, they'll stop cropping up
>>
>>554323782
> anyone who actually likes video games likes mediocre garbage designed to earn purchases from clueless parents under the assumption that people who actually like games wouldn't give it a second glance
Delusional.
>>
>>554323662
>POPULAR THING BAD
Indie gamers forever coping.
>>
>>554323523
McDonalds appeals to billions, it doesn't mean McDonalds isn't unhealthy tasteless garbage.
>>
>>554323886
> POPULAR THING GOOD
AAA cocksuckers continue to cope.
>>
>>554323871
>mediocre AAA games sell, and are enjoyed
>indie trash churned out frequently, are largely ignored and forgotten
Indie cope.
>>
File: 1620050198143.jpg (22 KB, 303x403)
22 KB
22 KB JPG
>there's posters on this board RIGHT NOW that has only ever played tripple A garbage
>>
>>
>>554290632
complementary colors cancer
>>
>>554324034
> mediocre AAA games sell, and are "eh'd" by millions
> indie devs shoot their best shot repeatedly, occasionally make hits
Keep coping, cocksucker.
>>
File: kotick.jpg (253 KB, 1024x1325)
253 KB
253 KB JPG
>>554323990
> POPULAR THING GOOD
Duh? Or else it wouldn't be popular.
>>
>>554323842
>market forces will make bad indie games fail and good games, indie or otherwise, prevail.
this demonstrably isn't true, it's usually the most generic and lowest-effort indie """games""" getting shilled into success.
>>
>>554324132
>indie devs shoot their best shot repeatedly
no they don't. they settle for the comfortable mediocrity of metroidvanias, roguelikes, deck builders, or open-world survival crafting.
>>
File: 1609107811109.jpg (16 KB, 400x400)
16 KB
16 KB JPG
>>554322153
>Because eventually you want to play games that have gameplay
>it's only gameplay when it's simplistic platforming, or simplistic side scrolling action, or simplistic [genre]
Just like the good old days when you were 10 eh?
>>
>>554324263
Provide some examples.
>>
>>554323935
Millions of people worldwide think McDonalds is good and eat it regardless of its unhealthyness. If McDonalds wasn't good it wouldn't be making money.
>>
>>554324209
> a thing has to be good to be popular
I've never read a falser statement in my life.
>>
>>554289931
>hating on white characters
>OP confirmed leftist
>>
>>554324401
None of those except for open world survival crafting is comfortable or mediocre, anon. They all take significant effort to make well.
>>
>>554322153
>the difference between old and new God of War
New God of War is actually way more complex than the old one. Not that it means much since it doesn't hold a candle to Platinum, but still.
>>
File: comfy shelter.webm (1.24 MB, 1100x618)
1.24 MB
1.24 MB WEBM
>>554290632
>>
>>554324493
Start reading your own posts.
>>
>>554324416
every indie metroidvania and roguelike from the past decade
every walking simulator
>>
>>554324662
I read all my own posts. It's just that, again, the idea of popularity requiring quality is so far beyond wrong I don't even know where to begin.
Have you witnessed... human history? VHS versus Betamax, for instance?
>>
>>554324631
there wouldn't be hundreds of them being made by amateurs every year if they weren't comfortable or mediocre.
>>
>>554324401
LOL I totally forgot about the early access survival crafting fotm trash that indie devs shit out. And the indieshitters ITT have the nerve to say that AAA games are mediocre and safe.
>>
>>554324747
Okay, now provide some actual examples instead of broad generalized statements.
>>
>>554324980
Do you not remember the period where every fucking AAA game had all the exact same shit, except even worse because it wasn't even made by a single person, instead by a committee designed to scrape away all the individuality and soul they possibly could?
>>
>>554290112
FPBP
OP BTFO
>>
>>554325000
every indie metroidvania and roguelike from the past decade
every walking simulator
>>
>>554324812
>Have you witnessed... human history? VHS versus Betamax, for instance?
Sorry I didn't realize you were a balding old man.
>>
>>554325078
Yeah, you mean games that are still beloved and part of successful franchises like GTA IV, Call of Duty, etc.?
>>
>>554325224
NOOO THOSE DONT COUNT AAAAAAA
>>
>>554325404
> call of duty
> beloved
Call of Duty is literally the first game everyone with taste learns to shit on. If not that, then Madden.
>>
>>554316778
>Gone Home nearly a decade old
T-that can't be true
>>
>>554325224
>>554325518
You're making generalized statements
Name some specific games. Name a game.
>>
>>554290632
how do i git gud at this game?
>>
>>554325559
It's the first game incel manbabies pretend is bad because they think it makes them more mature.
>>
>>554316778
>like it's not nearly a decade old
What does that have to do with anything?
>>
>>554325559
>everyone with taste
Everyone who wants to look like they have taste. There's a difference.
>>
>deckbuilder
an inferior clone of slay the spire
>action roguelike or overhead shooter
shitty dungeon or industrial environment. Enemies that appear and attack with no ryhme or reason. ugly hero character
>beat em up
streets of rage clone but worst
>platformer
Feels like one of those forgotten SNES platformers that were never worst talking about, only its even easier
>metroidvania
Copying decade old ideas from SotN but worst

>not showing the slightiest knowledge of how their genre was refined, experimented with or improved, across the decades. Probably doesn't even know the names of the greats in the genre beyond 1 or 2 names
>challenge is either piss easy, dependent on grinding stats up, or involves tons of RNG to succeed
>shitty character design, generic environments, ear rape for music

Cash grabs by talentless people with no passion.
>>
oribros where you at?
your favorite :
>soundtrack
>location
>weapon (in o2)
>boss / escape sequence
>have you beaten one life in either game?
>>
>>554325819
If you're trying to argue that indie games are shit, it makes you look retarded to be bringing up a game made during a fad from over a decade ago.
It's like saying all SNES games are shit because Bubsy was made during the mascot platformer fads.
>>
>>554295465

>be inexperienced dev
>do something that has been done before but with your own twist to it while still retaining key elements of the genre so people can play it comfortably
>generally sells well so long as it's not absolute garbage
>after learning, start doing more riskier things and see what happens

From a game dev perspective, platformers/manias are one of the safer and easy to balance things to make.

I do wish for more shit to have Castlevania's SoTN or DS games artstyles.
>>
>>554326070
>during a fad from over a decade ag-
>>554319798
>>
>>554326083
more like
>be inexperienced dev
>pick a genre you are not passionate or knowledge about but is easy to do
>throw in some stupid ideas from other games that don't mesh well. 20 other indie fags had the same idea
>Sells shit, realize you would have made more money working at taco bell with all the time you invested
>never make another game because you are burnt out, disillusioned, and just made it for money
>>
>>554325906
holy based
>>
>>554326070
I don't even need an example to explain why ""indie"" games are shit. I can tell by the way that the creator, or the shiller, or whatever is trying to separate themselves from actual game devs who have talent and worked hard to make super popular titles that stood the test of time, by saying that whoever made those titles was not independent.

Nintendo is not independent. Valve is not independent. etc. etc.

No, only tiny teams of inexperienced dudes, who haven't made anything good, are independent.

If you call your game an "indie" game, you are basically just calling it shit in my eyes.
>>
>>554326246
First, steam tags are user curated. All sorts of random unfitting tags get slapped on games.
Second, just because people still make them doesn't mean it isn't a dead fad. Going back to my Bubsy example, Bubsy got a new game a couple years back.
https://youtu.be/lXP8pgEivBc
it sucked ass, but I sure wouldn't argue that all platformers are shit just because people make garbage games in that genre, and I also wouldn't say that the mascot platformer fad is still "alive" because Bubsy got new games.
>>
>>554326410
you forgot
>another indie dev ready to take your place
>does the exact same thing
>repeat ad nauseum
>>
>>554326410
>pick a genre you are not passionate or knowledge about but is easy to do
The thing is usually that genre is NOT easy to do. Which is why the """indie""" dev fucks up so much.
>>
> thread is dominated by one or two persistent retards pretending they hate all indie games
When will this breed of contrarian trolling die? Soon, I hope.
>>
>>554326669
Anon, Indie as a term is just coined shorthand for "independently published", which in and of itself is shorthand for "published by a small team, not a larger publisher". If you think indie is meant to mean anything other than that, you're fucking retarded.
>>
>>554326703
>nooo those games dont count
Indieshitters don't have any argument except for this. I'm not gonna read the rest of your post but I'm sure it's full of cope.
>>
>>554289931
Don't tell me you picked character with white body + black eyes to imply they are all the same. Because if so you are fucking retarded
>>
>>554326669
Your entire argument rests on the idea that large publishers make good games, which is growing less true by the second. The further we go into modernity, the less gameplay AAA devs figure out how to put in. The more they figure out how to milk out of unsuspecting players with season passes and DLC. The less effort they manage to squeeze out of their legions of workers.
Indie developers are literally the only people I trust to care about gameplay on ANY level these days, because AAA devs can all make money with zero gameplay at all.
>>
File: vegeta kneel.png (239 KB, 335x506)
239 KB
239 KB PNG
>>554290112
>>
>>554289931
>Baba is you developers
>unskilled
It was made by one of the devs behind noita, which consists of a game engine written literally from scratch in c++, a feat which would in all likelihood fry your brain into oblivion

>rain world
built in an ancient engine that mostly serviced as a medium to generate the art and backgrounds, massively experimental methodology that took a huge mount of time and effort to port to something more servicable for the eventual release of the game, go find his early devblogs its really interesting stuff.

go fuck yourself.
>>
>>554291247
But then again, video games wouldnt exist without whites.
>>
>>554326831
>anyone whose opinion is different is a trolling contrarian
I guess the indieshitters ITT prentending Call of Duty is bad because it's from a AAA dev are just epic trolls then?
>>
>>554327632
The thing is, an opinion like "indie is AUTOMATICALLY bad" doesn't arise from anyone who actually likes or cares about video games. The only people who will claim to have such an opinion are lying, ergo trolling.
Call of Duty is bad because when it's not garbage rehashing itself for a massive yearly pricetag, it's garbage rehashing everything else from the past few years for a massive yearly pricetag.
>>
>>554326952
>Indie as a term is just coined shorthand for "independently published"
Which is why the term fails again, since Steam and Nintendo publish most of that garbage.

>noo it doesn't count despite the fact they created the storefront

lol

>>554327314
Yes, all good games have been published by a notable company.

>Wing Commander - Origin Systems
>Super Shinobi - Sega
>SID MEIER'S CIVILIZATION - MicroProse
>MGS - Konami
>Deus Ex - Eidos Interactive

etc. etc.

I'd list hundreds more if I didn't think you would just ignore me or use your stupid greentext on some minor aspect and then say some dumb shit that supposedly invalidates all of my examples.
>>
>>554327829
AAA Games = Bad
AA Games = Bad
A Games = Bad
Indie Games = Bad
>>
>>554327357
>look up noita
>shitty 2d pixels game
LOL you cant make this shit up
>>
>>554327829
Call of Duty games are good, it's one of the best selling franchises in video game history. You are absolutely delusional if you think otherwise.
>>
>>554328249
Eh, they're ok. I don't know about you but I don't enjoy a game more than another merely because it sold more. This isn't /biz/.
>>
>>554328010
> all good games have been published by a notable company because I can name some good games that were published by notable companies
FTL, Super Meat Boy, Terraria, Minecraft, The Binding of Isaac, Hotline Miami, Library of Ruina, ZeroRanger, Lethal League, Kerbal Space Program, Garry's Mod, Opus Magnum, Noita. Just off the top of my head, these are some of the best games I've ever played, none published or made by notable companies.
>>
File: 1612230642602.jpg (19 KB, 291x351)
19 KB
19 KB JPG
you retards replying to this guy are why people like him act this way.
>>
>>554328498
Compared to games in the same genre made by real companies those are garbage.

Just because the only platformers and overhead shooters you have played are indie turds doesn't mean they are good.
>>
>>554328498
>these are some of the best games I've ever played
That's just fucking sad
>>
>>554328249
Call of Duty games are aggressively mediocre at best. It's one of the best selling franchises in history solely thanks to branding and reputation; you are absolutely delusional if you think otherwise.
>>
>>554328249
>If game sells that means it's good
Normalfag opinion
>>
>>554328620
Lol no. Super Meat Boy is far better than any 2d platformer made by a major publisher. More fun, better physics, more willing to make use of its own mechanics. I'm kind of willing to believe you on Isaac since I don't play a ton of top-down shooters, but given that you think a game being indie makes it bad I'm inclined to believe you're just lying.
>>
>>554328387
People buy them because they're good, just like people buy the rare successful indie titles like Minecraft or Terraria because they're good.
>>
>>554328816
>People buy them because they're good
No, they buy them because they expect to enjoy them. That means less than nothing to me.
>>
>>554291760
Faggot, Cave Story and Yume Nikki are great. I'll give you Undertale though.
>>
>>554328816
Minecraft sold well because it attracted both those who actually care about and enjoy video games AND the casuals just in it to be like their favorite shills. Terraria sold well because it had easy multiplayer, lots of content, and was dirt cheap. Call of Duty sells well because of hype and literally nothing else.
>>
>>554328795
Super Meat boy is hedious, uses a save-state like checkpoint system for shitters, and is simplistic copy paste garbage. Didn't I mention it's fucking hedious? Wall jumps have been explored in many platformers in far more interesting ways. Isaac is probably the worst overhead shooter ever made. That should give you an idea of how bad your taste is.
>>
>>554328624
What, sad that you're missing out on good games because you think indie means bad? I've played my share of AAA, I'm not fucking enamored by a hundred hours of meaningless pickups and marginal upgrades to my main weapon anymore.
>>
>>554328651
It's reputation as a fun game that's well deserved.
>>554328668
>POPULAR THING BAD
Touch grass.
>>
>>554325095
You can stop replying to yourself now. We get it.
>>
>>554329204
Call of Duty is bad because it's popular.
It's bad because Call of Duty is a bad game.
>>
>>554329137
> If you die you need to go back a million miles and you can only die three times or you go all the way back to the start of the game
No, fuck you. If a challenge can't stand up to someone able to try it repeatedly, then it's not a good challenge, it's just memorization. Super Meat Boy is the opposite of that. It looks decent enough, the style is hit or miss.
Like I said, I don't really give a fuck about Isaac as an overhead shooter, I'm judging it as just an independent product. The shooting isn't very fun unless you have something that breaks the game in half, what's fun about the game is how you can break it.
>>
Are you really talking shit about Baba is You???
>>
>>554329458
Yes. This faggot thinks that if your game wasn't published by a major publisher it's because it's shit, because major publishers can only afford to publish sure hits and if you couldn't get your game through a major publisher that means it's shit.
>>
>>554328965
>>554328996
>people keep buying call of duty because theyre not having fun
You're both absolutely delusional.
>>554329137
Hideous* But you're right, there are zero consequences for failure in Super Meat Boy. It's not a very good platformer and worse yet, it's pretty much just a reskin of that flash game N.
>>
>>554329601
>people keep buying call of duty because theyre not having fun
They have fun momentarily because you can have fun with anything when it's hyped and all your friends are playing it.
Then those who keep playing get hooked by the skinnerbox that is matchmaking-only video games and their emotional manipulation hooks.
People continue to get tricked into buying the next one because those who enjoyed the hype want to recapture that and those who gave up their entire life to it because of emotional manipulation want a chance to "prove themselves".
>>
>>554329363
Congrats for proving indie players only play their shitty games because they literally cannot handle the difficulty of proper platformers. You only play these turd games not only because its all you can handle but its the only thing you know.

Your opinion on anything is totally worthless because it stems from ignorance and low skill. You're like a man who spent his whole life living in a toilet going on about how having people piss in your mouth is great.
>>
>>554329163
Homeworld >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FTL
Super Mario World >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Super Meat Boy
Shock Troopers or LoZ LttP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Binding of Isaac and Hotline Miami
Street Fighter 3rd strike or Last Blade 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lethal League
Half Life 1 & 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garry's Mod
Satisfactory or Factorio >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opus Magnum
Metal Slug 1 through 6 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Noita

This is just from what I've played. Not interested in playing shit like Minecraft at all, but I bet I've played better survival crafting games, on top of the fact that they didn't look like ass either.
>>
>>554330035
I beat the first four console Mario platformers, I beat Castlevania without save states, I beat the genesis Sonic games. I've played "proper" platformers. I just don't really think they're my thing.
It's not about skill, it's about quality. I prefer quality.
>>
>>554330089
>Shook Troopers

My man. Play Outzone for the arcade, one of the best overhead shooters ever but hard as balls.
>>
File: 1598636334510.jpg (135 KB, 612x611)
135 KB
135 KB JPG
>>554328795
>Super Meat Boy is far better than any 2d platformer made by a major publisher
It has like 20 second levels, and an ugly as fuck aesthetic
>>
>>554330089
Half of these are not even remotely comparable. Super Mario World is leagues below Super Meat Boy though. Most of the fun mechanics only reach their full potential in romhacks.
Also, Satisfactory and Factorio are still indie you dumb cunt.
>>
>>554329363
>Super Meat Boy is the opposite of that.
LOL no it fucking isn't. Super Meat Boy just truncates the span of actions you have to memorize between penalties to a measure so small that retards like you become convinced that there is no memorization involved. It offers the same breed of challenge as classic platformers but does away with all of the actual difficulty.
>>
>>554330183
The way you worded it makes it seem like Castlevania is the only one you beat without savestates.

Do you know what knowing "less then nothing means". It means not only do you not know anything but your preconceptions are so bad that you have worst understanding of the subject then someone that knows nothing.

That's what playing with savestates gets you. You know less about old school games then someone who has never played them because your perception is so warped.
>>
File: its shit.png (1.36 MB, 1291x789)
1.36 MB
1.36 MB PNG
oh look a rabbit!
>>
>>554329818
>muh emotional manipulation
lmao just like how 99% of indie games have some sad music and boo hoo storyline? indie copers are hilarious.
>>
>>554330364
>Also, Satisfactory and Factorio are still indie
They were published by Steam and EGS though, so no they don't meet your shitty indie standards. The Factorio devs don't call themselves an indie team either.
>>
>>554289931
>Discover that it's actually quite easy to make games now
If that’s true, then why do you need to learn coding to do it?
>>
File: 1243787899210.jpg (135 KB, 1280x960)
135 KB
135 KB JPG
>>554330089
Seriously good taste.
>>
>>554330426
Castlevania is the hardest one there, I figured it'd be best to specify there than say "without savestates" on fucking all of them.
I know plenty. I've been playing games for more than two thirds of my lifespan. I started with the classics and worked my way up. The classics are better than the modern AAA stuff, buy and large, but indies often take the right lessons from classics and then some.
>>
>>554330364
>Half of these are not even remotely comparable
Also I've just compared them bitch. What are you going to do about it?
>>
>>554329325
>Call of Duty is bad because it's popular.
lmao finally an indieshitter who's honest about being a contrarian
>>
>>554289931
Meds. Now.
>>
>>554289931
>4chan hates something
Must be great! I'll go download it right now!
>>
>>554330475
> sidesteps the rest of the points
Expertly done, retard. Yes, some indie games are also emotionally manipulative, especially the ones with a "meta" storyline that tries to include "you", the real player. But cawadooty and all the other games that push matchmaking endlessly are far worse. They're not meant to make you attached, they're meant to make you emotionally invested via anger.
>>
>>554320789
>second video
That disney/blizzard/mobile artstyle is soullessness itself given form.
They aren't trying to hide that they were "heavily inspired" by Recettear.
>>
>>554324579
>leftist
Most leftists are completely fine with White People.
You mean jew.
>>
>>554311202
that's an interesting take man. i like it
>>
>>554330770
Whats good about the AAA is they are beautiful and mechanically complex, even if not very deep (perfect example: Skyrim. Deep as a puddle wide as an ocean). What sucks is they are sloppy and easy.

Whats good about the classic games is they are rockhard and tightly designed. Every screen is quality. What sucks is the graphics and depth (many are two button games). Indies take the worst from both. Bad graphics, simple, sloppy, and easy.

I think you just like games that are simple and a little bit easy. So thats why you rank indies so high. The AAA games are too complex for your taste and the classics are simple but harder then you would like.
>>
>>554291760
>hating on cave story
>and yume nikki

>and undertale
Cave story is pure kino, single dev. and yume nikki is an rpg maker 2000 game, also made by one person. Undertale is overrated, although I respect anyone who can make SNES romhacks, but it was worth it to send Tem to colleg. (She is unironically an amazing artist that people only know because of the game)
>>
>>554316232
>>554316646
ok i´ll give it a try thanks
>>
>>554290112
OP completely BTFO, check IPs, new poster you fucking faggot, get fucked OP
>>
>>554290112
OP anally devasted
>>
>>554311202
Pretty based post in this thread. Kudos.
>>
File: 1569805148146.gif (248 KB, 200x200)
248 KB
248 KB GIF
>>554331070
>They're not meant to make you attached, they're meant to make you emotionally invested via anger.
>anger
Maybe don't get owned so hard indiescrub?
>>
>>554290112
FPBP. Just fucking end your pathetic life already OP.
>>
>>554331892
> you can only ever get angry when you lose
Never had a retarded teammate that you have to hard carry, huh? Don't worry, there are lots of retards on 4chan who never play the games they defend.
>>
>>554331432
AAAs are "beautiful" but often take the brute force approach of high fidelity. I think many classic games look better simply because they had to have art direction rather than relying on raw polycount or what have you; the ones that did now look terrible in retrospect. Also, Skyrim IS the perfect example. There are a lot of mechanics, it's just that very few of them actually interact. I wouldn't call that mechanically complex; "mechanically complex" means the mechanics themselves are complex. Morrowind is more complex than Skyrim.
I can think of a few classic games that ironically have more depth than modern equivalents. Despite having less buttons and less processing power, the mechanics they do have interact more deeply and satisfyingly. It's only when you get back way into the NES and Atari days that the games get to the level of simplicity you're discussing.
Indies take good parts of both. Art direction over fidelity, simplicity or complexity as the premise requires, tight design, a happy medium of difficulty.
I dare you to tell me Library of Ruina is "simple" just because it's indie. I fucking DARE you.
>>
What is even worse they steal the original game identity like starjew valley with harverst moon.
>>
>>554289931
Indie games are the only game left with white characters.
>>
>>554332472
>steal
You mean make it better. Harvest Moon was always a garbage game made for disgusting lonely weebfags.
>>
>>554332472
Didn't Harvest Moon have a huge slump in quality and ratings that Stardew Valley picked up the slack for when it was initially made?
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
OP has conceded by virtue of his existence
>>
>>554289931
If the market deems that 0 talent, skill, or imagination is sufficient, then yes. And if it is you are stupid for not making money doing it.
>>
>>554303205
>rain world
>metroidvania
Lmao what
>>
>>554289931
>You shouldn't be able to succeed if you have 0 talent, skill or imagination
If you could do that, you would be doing that. You clearly can't do that, so there has to be some kind of gate to success.
>>
>>554332686
>Ape talks about how much he loves harvest moon and how it inspired SDV
>ONLY DISGUSTING LONELY WEEBFAGS LIKE HARVEST MOON
HHAHHAHAAHHA indieshitters dont actually know anything about the games they play, they only buy games because of hype and then they accuse AAA gamers of doing the same. What a laugh.
>>
File: Untitled.png (488 KB, 1024x1384)
488 KB
488 KB PNG
>>554289931
>>
>>554333468
Kirby if he indie.
>>
>>554298837
based.
>>
>>554333468
>including dogshit like Undertale in an indie games image
>he does it twice
Fuck yourself Anon. You have shit taste.
>>
File: 1586534436341.png (264 KB, 612x444)
264 KB
264 KB PNG
>>554297109
>>554291076
>roguelike level design is harder than prewritten, because it has to be replayable to "work"
this is so blatantly wrong it made me angry

roguelikes by design are an utter mess. there is no balancing or design. a roguelike is designed to be fun for the length of "one run" and then the game is done. you have basically beat the game in "one run." if "one run" equals a 30 minute solid run, then the game is technically 30 minutes long.

despite the game being 30 minutes long, the player will die over because of the horrible RNG and the player will repeatedly justify it as "oh I had a bad run" or "im just not good at the game yet!". the more they die, then the roguelike will dripfeed metaprogression powerups and the player will slowly be tricked into thinking they're better at the game until they beat the 30 minute game 20 hours later and go "wow haha i got good at the game its so easy to win now!"

the reality of all these roguelike smoke and mirrors is that, there was actually zero effort to balance the game, because RNG tricks you into thinking there is depth to the roguelike. the RNG tricks you into padding a 30 minute game into dozens of hours, the RNG tricks you into replayability, ad nauseum. it is basically a dev crutch to make tons of playtime off a very low scope for small devs who can't afford to handcraft levels. compare the levels in bloodborne to the garbage chalice dungeons. a popular roguelike risk of rain 2 actually has handcrafted levels, and that decision alone saved it from being dogshit
>>
File: 1606034706169.png (1.21 MB, 870x981)
1.21 MB
1.21 MB PNG
>>554333346
>Harvest moon
>not just a weeb indie game
Dumb nigger
>>
>>554333876
Based ratposter with sense. Random generated shit is low-effort cancer. Also Risk of Rain 2 is sick.
>>
>>554333876
Too bad most of RoR2's design is anti-fun. Probably 1/3 of the items are useless as a whole and another 3/4 are useless if you get them first through third.
>>
>>554333876
>wahhh wahhh wahhh I don't play rougelikes!!!
Jesus just kill yourself.
>>
>>554334195
It was good enough for the dev of Stardew. Cope.
>>
>>554290112
fpbp
>>
>>554334316
anything random is the crutch of the midwit. always be wary of randomness in heavy dosages

gacha, roguelikes, farming random drops, turn based with heavy rng, etcetera. embrace determinism
>>
File: 1619727289315.png (10 KB, 507x401)
10 KB
10 KB PNG
>>554289931
>>
File: 1600942287707.png (395 KB, 536x566)
395 KB
395 KB PNG
>>554290112
>>554289931
Samefag.
>>
File: 5ae.jpg (59 KB, 234x226)
59 KB
59 KB JPG
>>554290112
this
>>
File: Screenshot_1.jpg (54 KB, 866x449)
54 KB
54 KB JPG
these three are real deal kino.

rain world > hollow > ori though
>>
Somebody noticed that all these games are always made by white people why white people can't make original games now? what went wrong?
>>
>>554334642
you're right

the closest to "roguelike" i'll ever play is RTS with randomly generated maps
>>
>>554334646
Why do I give a shit? He had trash fucking taste in video games, Harvest Moon was neckbeard trash. He probably knows this which is why Stardew Valley isn't cringe anime shit.
>>
>>554335171
Now ya malding.
>>
File: 1586303036551.jpg (49 KB, 300x300)
49 KB
49 KB JPG
>>554290112
Toasting in ebin bread
>>
>>554332686
How is it better? It's the same shit but with terrible character art and writing.
>>
>>554330267
it has like 300 levels tf you mean?
>>
>>554335606
Even Ape admits the character art is shit lmao.
>>
File: 1612382469091.jpg (19 KB, 346x360)
19 KB
19 KB JPG
This thread is full of people with such terrible opinions I think I lost IQ just by looking at it.
Bravo, all of you.
>>
>>554290112
>>
>>554335606
>terrible character art and writing
This is how I know you're a harvest tranny. No one gives a shit about that, it's a fucking farming game. The gameplay mechanics and building your farm are the main points. HM only exists to act as a dating sim to lonely weebs, which is why the actual gameplay is pathetic.
>>
>>554335979
you have never played a Harvest moon or Rune Factory on your life, have fun playing an inferior copy with your sjw indie gay games.
>>
>>554335979
>No one gives a shit about that, it's a fucking farming game.
Most of the mods for Stardew are portrait/cosmetic redos. Cope more LOL.
>>
>>554335979
>No one gives a shit about that
Then why is it in BOTH games that we're comparing dickhead?
>>
why my mouse wheel not work????
and click get worse either
is it usb power window 7 fuckity fuck?
i not know how fix it i REEEEE and cry.
want paint
not cry
pls remove coronavirus and give mouse
faggot pls
>>
>>554289931
As far as Metroidvania go. Bloodstained and Blasphemous are the only good indie ones. Metroid and Castlevania still shit all over the entirety of the indie sub-genre.
>>
>>554290112
Fpbp
Also kys op
>>
>>554333876
Depends on the game. Your example doesn't work for games like FTL.
>>
>>554336273
False. I've played 2 rune factories and 2 harvest moons. They're shallow as fuck. The girls are literally the only draw. Why do you think every thread on here is about the dating options? RF is better than HM however.
>>554336362
Lmao smooth brain, you just proved my point. Why do you think 90% are about shallow shit and not content? Because the game is feature complete and not mechanically garbage.
>>
>>554315032
Proving what point? You just posted an image with no text.
>>
File: 1558316043147.gif (1.47 MB, 382x308)
1.47 MB
1.47 MB GIF
>>554337558
>talk about how shit the art is
>dev admits he's shit at art, most mods are cosmetics trying to fix it
>NOOO WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER FEATURES?
lmfao stay owned
>>
>>554335052
All the smart ones are busy working and trying to dig themselves out of the poverty that corporate globalism has created.
>>
File: 1590258331542.png (104 KB, 242x208)
104 KB
104 KB PNG
>>554338534
>other features
Yeah, all those other features like playing the game.
>"I... I only play the girls!!!"
That's real beta, ngl. No wonder you download coomer mods.
>>
>>554325761
Learn when to attack and when to run. And learn to attack.
>>
>>554339280
>NOOO I DIDNT TRY AND CHANGE THE SUBJECT CAUSE I GOT OWNED TALK ABOUT THIS OTHER THING INSTEAD PLEAAAASE
corncobbed bitch hahhahahahaha
>>
>>554339948
>ESL nigger
Anons were always comparing gameplay. You're the one that brought in complaining about how your SV boyfriends aren't attractive enough. Stay seething troon.
>>
File: owned.jpg (21 KB, 680x387)
21 KB
21 KB JPG
>>554340508
>chud gets owned and immediately starts with racist slurs
>so out of touch he doesn't recognize internet slang that isn't 20 years old and thinks it's ESL
gg no re
>>
>>554334857
homo
>>
>>554322060
So we really need Greenlight back is what you're saying.
>>
File: 1415319192800.jpg (6 KB, 244x250)
6 KB
6 KB JPG
>>554340942
>confused about the subject
>so ESL he thinks I'm talking about the """"insults""""
Post country
>>
>>554339280
>>554339948
>>554340508
>>554340942
get a room homos
>>
File: 1602606606010.jpg (416 KB, 950x1358)
416 KB
416 KB JPG
>>554290112
fpbp, and OP is a fag who chokes on cocks in hell.
>>
>>554324646
is this place actually in the game? i don't recognize it
>>
>>554324646
I've never seen that shelter before. What region is it in?
>>
File: Whitecolorchange.gif (14 KB, 79x91)
14 KB
14 KB GIF
>>554290632
I love rainworld, but playing it turns me into a little a bitch through primal fear. I don't think I can remember a recent gaming experience that gave me a heart attack quite like first getting ambushed by one of these fuckers. Made me triple check for distortions in the background afterwards.
>>
>>554341614
>coping because he got owned and tried to change the subject
>throwing out accusations ESL and racist insults because he's a sheltered racist /pol/tard whose only contact with the outside world is 4chan and fox news
My country is the United States of America and we're Building Back Better.
>>554341661
Wanna join? Let's kiss.
>>
>>554342287
It’s from the better shelters mod
>>
>>554290632
>>
>>554298837
based
>>
>>554316696
OP
>>
>>554289931
op you're retarded
>>
>>554332345
>Libra
I'll play it.

My discussion on simplicity was limited to action games, not strategy/tactic ones

When it comes to arcadey action games the only ones that are even remotly complex are the last era of beat em ups (violent storm, punisher, DnD, etc) and the fighting games.

If modern games are deep as puddle, wide as an ocean, the classic arcadey games were wells: goes so deep you cant see the bottom but barely wide enough to fit in.
>>
>>554333876
That's certainly how the shitty indie ones are. They took a genre about incredibly complex item interaction and turned it into a slot machine.

The ones done by REAL COMPANIES you can achieve a >50% win rate if you have mastered the game and even the runs where you die you can still get pretty far. Even when the stars allign and you get several perfect drops early the game still has plenty of ways to fuck you over if you don't know what you are doing.
>>
>>554298837
Anon, I just want to let you know you're a goddamn hero.
>>
>>554298837
>pretend you're not butthurt because your game is bad
>look for validation online
lol
>>
File: 1585149345110.png (404 KB, 600x568)
404 KB
404 KB PNG
>>554348307
>win rate
disgusting
if you mastered the game you should have 99% win rate
>>
THE PAGIES
>>
IN CAGIES
>>
File: 1615836352183.jpg (35 KB, 622x541)
35 KB
35 KB JPG
>>554290112
>>
WHO'LL SET THEM FREE?
>>
>>554349227
That would be the ideal case but you can still win enough so it feels like your success isn't decided by a slot machine pull. Like I said if you mastered the game even if you lose you still get pretty far. Sometimes you will just get a serious of ridiculously unlikely events to happen all in a row.
>>
>>554289931
>500+ replies of talentless indie dev apologism
based
>>
I fucking hate platformers so much it's unreal. When are people going to come up with a new genre? Every fucking game always fits in some retarded cliche like turn-based, grand strategy, action, survival horror, racing, metroidvania, etc., etc.
>>
>>554349992
New genres come up as a result of new technology allowing you to do things that were not previously possible. For example Battle Royals were not possible in the past because maintaining 100 people on a server was impractical.
>>
File: 1617027884564.jpg (318 KB, 936x1312)
318 KB
318 KB JPG
>>554348307
But apologist will drink the s.0.ylatte and accept the shitty new orders of gaming.
>>
>>554349992
hating platformers is fine, but there's nothing wrong with tried-and-tested classics. execution matters more than jerking yourself off with some novel, never before thought of, turd
>>
Minit is so fun
>>
>>554350175
MMOs had been doing it for a decade.
>>
>>554350928
The collision info in MMOs are not nearly on the scale of whats needed for a battle royal character. Same with ballistics.

Lets also not forget that in the past most mmos had at least a quarter of a second latency which would be unaccptable for a battle royal.

If you want another example technology making other genres possible open world games were not possible until games could reach a certain level of size--at least open world as we know it today. Old Ultima was open world but its a completly different beast then GTA. Another example is danmaku games which were only possible once there was enough RAM to support hundreds of bullets without major slow down.

I could go on. You want more genres we need bigger technology. Imagine a genre based entirly on dialogue that deals with NPCs that have state of the art ai and can carry on conversations with anything you type.



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.