Has there ever been a game that has actual learning ai, even if really basic?
Someone post that 4chan screencap of a guy who left a Quake server running for years
>>519578348Technically most modern phone games are self-learning AIs.Across the bord it's completely mainstream to use machine learning to analyze the user behavior and then optimize the gameplay itself to maximize the revenue. It's a safe bet that any gatcha uses the technology.Basically, if you're playing on a phone, you're training an artificial jew simulator.
Why hasnt ai improved in videogames? The only game with notable ai that i can think of is FEAR
>>519578348Nemisis system in Shadows or Mordor I guess. Orcs remembered past fights with you and adapted to your tactics. Not that they could get smart enough to ever outplay a good player.
What about MGSV? The soldiers start wearing helmets if you heatshot them too much, armor if you go rambo, decoys etc.
isnt it weird how we’re the only species that has complex language and built complex shit?
>>519578796because programming AI means you need to have an intelligent programmer instead of just a poo in loo code monkey
>>519578845i didnt select this picture
>>519578845Crows have a language. It only has about 300 "words" though.
>>519578845well, if it were octopus instead of us, they could think the same thing, and the answer would be 'no' for them as well
>>519578845Whales have a more complex language as us. At least that is my assumption from the evidence we have.Building shit probably agreed, though other animals build cool shit too.
>>519578659not going to say this si fake because its a cool storybut if it wasn't a cool story, I would say its fake as fuck
>>519578845whale language has its own syntax
>>519578845we have neither the most complex language or complex structures on the planetsorry we are just good at throwing rocks
This was sort of one of the selling points of that Hello Neighbor "Horror game", I think. though it only ever amounted to simple things like just putting more traps on the floor, or locking doors that you previously went through. Kind of like when people mention Metal Gear 5 adding helmets and stuff, though neither one is really AI, it's just a sort of unlock system. Get over 30 headshots and now enemies have helmets. You went through this door twice, now it has a lock on it.I think I remember some fighting game where if you had a clear pattern of behavior, it would try and counter that. For example if you did a lot of low kicks, the enemy would focus more on jumping/blocking low in the future. But beyond that, I can't think of any.
>>519578348That shogi loli game.
>>519578796because it's a work intensive task that's pretty low down the list of selling points
>>519578659I miss this old /v/, cute humour, people normally using spacing without being called "reddit spacing".Where have we gone wrong?
>>519578659Ice cream? I love ice cream!
>>519578845don't listen to the naysaying pro-animal SJWs, humans are the master race
pretty sure mr freeze in arkham city adapted to any move you used against him
>>519579574Because the spacing actually was gay. We came to accept that people who use spaces were just trying to make their post look bigger so it would be more likely to get replies.Spacing your posts is attention whoring.
>>519578796chad thundercock and Tyrone don't care if madden 2027 has super advantage player AI that gimmicks real professional players they care if the game looks pretty
>>519578348Silly human this planet belongs to attack helicopters now. But you allowed to live as ancestor. Chop!
>>519579636Sadly that's not an AI thing, just a simple check of which of the available options you took. Closer to a phase change on more normal boss fights but instead of specific phases, there's a checklist.
>>519579636You just couldn't use the same attack on him twice. It was a really cool boss fight but not AI.
>>519579690Maybe they are just trying to make the post more coherent to read when it's a long post?
>>519579760What you can't read if the words are close together? Eat some fish pills brainlet.
>massive dinosaur nerf despite being one of the most balance metas to date >humans get none stop buffs and dominate all servers>only viable builds are ones that serve humans or hard counter themyeah nice race bias devs fucking shit game
>>519579720Would you consider the Nemisis orcs to be AI?
>>519578348>The ape thinks he's out of the evolutionary arms race because he evolved due to being part of the arms race. You're being played like a damn fiddle.
>>519579707https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbapsli9er8Not so fast! This planet, are fighters territory.
>>519579442You want a real meme check out valve when they were hyping up L4D and its AI Director when really all it did was change some paths, add a car alarm where it wasnt before randomly and have swarms happen randomly. Truly AI lmao
>>519579837humans can literally be killed by making them fall over wrong, git fucking gud
>>519579636Probably the only good boss fight in the entire series (and I love those games)
>>519578348I'm thinking of making one. I don't know if it would be balanced at all, but I want to try. I just finished my masters in software engineering and focused on self-adaptive systems.
>>519578659need more pixel m8
>>519579574>people who wanted to talk about vidya and have fun start acting edgy because they find it funny>edgy teenagers appear and start posting edgy shit unironically >old users get tired of the new users and start leaving>now its all edgy idiotsback in the days people made funny OC, and did not care about reddit at all, now its all contrarians and idiots full of hatewe should leave too, let this place die for good, but for some reason we are still here
>>519579690lmao i've been here for so fucking long, nobody ever cared about spacing at all
>>519578796It hasnt improved because AI is supposed to be beatable. Even FEAR AI involved a lot of smoke and mirrors.
>>519580010>falling everDo you think a great warrior ever tripped and fell? No. Slipping and falling only started to recently happen to humans as their natural reflexes decayed. We used to be able to swing tree to tree and shit.
Actual AI learning entails way too much trial and error to be all that feasible in a game. You'd basically be watching the AI full flat on its face over and over trying to figure out how its supposed to function.It'll always be something that is promised during pre-release hype to wow people that'll be toned down to something really gimmicky when it comes to the practicality of actually making it work in a game.
>>519580114>for some reason we are still hereWhere else can we go?
>>519578825That wasn't really AI but assigned attributes
>>519578825>>519578841Thats not AI learning you fucking idiotsThat just Scripting flags the devs set up being triggered by player actionsbasically the game just reads your kill log and then activates pre-coded counter measures based on it.
>>519580131I remember when spacing was acceptable. Just more time spent scrolling through some self important retarded post he felt he needed to hit enter every 3 lines in so it would look big and special.
>>519579690that sounds like some serious bullshityou probably started using 4chan in like 2013
>>519579905Pretty funny. We're just vehicles of a sentient universe learning how to change Itself. Incubators for the machine race that will carry out Its bidding.
>>519579837>not speccing in a covid build alreadygit gud
>>519580197outside with friends
>>519579837Humans just realized how broken INT is.
>>519579690>we noticed that the spacing was a bad thing and then coincidentally we never mention this, we just call it redditit's an "anon just makes shit up" episode
>>519579760It's reddit when it's a lineThen another lineThen another lineIf someone makes a paragraph then does two carriage returns because he talks about another point like you would in a book and people complain about reddit then he's being trolled.
>>519580231>>519580259It wasn't just about how you killed them though. A lot played into it. I spent a lot of time messing with it. If you died a lot the orcs wouldn't be afraid of you but eventually if you were good enough they would all run on sight when you showed up. But it took a lot to get that to happen and most people probably never did.
>>519580259And how do you make artificial intelligence without using code?
>>519578348I don't get it, monkeys can throw rocks, how come we won and they didn't?
>>519579690>>519579816Back in the day junior, we didn't all have 3 different 4k monitors to type our post in. Usually the window looked like pic related, so if the post was longer than a couple of lines, it would give the impression of a very dense text. So yes, people broke their post up in sections to make it more "readable".Of course even my example falls behind because there wasn't any "Quick reply window". You'd have to scroll all the way up to the top of the page to type your post in a box which I don't recall if it was resizable or not. And hopefully you read the website's rules to figure out that you also need to type in 'noko' so you don't wake up to the front page.Well at the very least, that's why I did it.
>>519579837Dinos can't sweat, they are not OP.
>nu-/v/ is incapable of telling the difference between AI and scripting as sad as it is it makes sense, basically no game today has any good AI, its all just premade script upon script with some basic pathfinding
>>519579574You don't know what reddit spacing is if you're complain about it
>>519580290My first post here was in 2009>inb4 fuck off summerfag I been here since 2006
Isn't it crazy that my long long ago ancestor would chase animals for miles, everyday, able to catch up to literally any animal to kill it once the other animal is exhaustedBut I just sit inside all day everyday sitting at my desk ordering a pizza delivery for dinner, and I can only jog for a short bit before I'm out of breathAnd yet our bodies can easily handle living like this. Hell we can handle (not well but we can) being 1000 fucking pounds. We're resilient as fuck.
>>519580406The very concept of calling something "reddit" is nonsensical and flat out states "I came here to ruin the conversation"
>>519578348It's a rock, luigigronk, you didn't make it.
>>519578845not just languages but regional accents too.
>>519580643Actually no, humans were prey. Even are tough humans. Until fire was discovered.
>>519580320COVID cheese won't be nearly as good once the new meta is established. Will work in some low level countries but still.
>>519578841God I love those old school painted history kino.
>>519579574Reddit spacing used to mean leaving a space between the post number and your actual post, like what I'm doing right now, because apparently Reddit posts look better if you place a space there. If you've been using 4chan for a while you immediately notice how unnatural this space looks.Now it just means leaving a space between paragraphs, which is fucking stupid.
>>519580509Now, come to think about it, I don't miss my 17inch monitor.
>>519580643You feel out of breath but you could keep going. Its not your body that is too weak its your mind. You could walk 500 miles if you really wanted/needed to. I know an old lady that does 500 mile marathons with a bunch of other old ladies.
>>519578348"basic ai", real ai, is far more complex and more work than any game.so no.
>>519579442>fighting gameKiller Instinct had the "shadow brain" system, where you could create an AI clone version of a character you played as that would attempt to mimic your playstyle. I don't know how accurate it was or if it was true AI, but it did seem to learn from how you played. Also you could choose to "download data" onto it after every match you played as with that character, which meant the more you played as the character the more accurate the shadow brain would become.
>>519578993cawcawcaw caw cawcaw cawcawcawcaw cawcawcaw cawcaw
>>519580438>>519580446>if player death ratio is <X% flag orcs to not be afraid>if player kill ration is <X% flag orcs to be afraidAlso the difference is you can only get behaviors the devs bothered to write out a script for.True AI is capable of things the devs didnt directly code into the game.
>>519580842Hit a nerve, zoomzoom?
>>519580639that's strange considering how you act about it, that was about the time i started posting, 2008 on /b/ or somethingbut you're a faggot for being here this long and crying about reddit spacing lol, posts are ugly when you put two paragraphs together like this ^
>>519579707What if helicopters could have a consciousness.
>>519578348I believe that Revenge of The Titans, a small tower defense game, has a neuron network to learn different paths for aliens to advance. I remember clearly that obvious paths would be avoided after some time and aliens would go different way to avoid blockades, guns and mines. You'd have to destroy old barricades for resources to build new ones in different placeshttps://store.steampowered.com/app/93200/Revenge_of_the_Titans/
humans may be smart..but he dino
>>519580509based>>519580842cringeproperly formatting long posts isn't "reddit"
>>519580971https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuYOeFDuBmgWhat about cars?
>>519580906They made a lot more sounds than that when they are close to each other thays just there signal to other crows far away.https://youtu.be/ae8mTRDP6ys
>>519578845Elephants have complex language
>>519578348Alien Isolation. The alien learns of your movements and use of tools and will avoid or work around it to get you. If you lock a door, the alien will bolt around the other way to get to you. Pretty basic but it's def noticeable. If you shoot it with the flamethrower enough, it will not run you down immediately when you draw it
>>519580959more like chiss
>>519580971>in the future helicopter pilots will have mandatory AI assistants >none of us will live long enough or be skilled enough at flying a helicopter to get a cute helo AI gf it hurts, a lot
>>519580915I don't see how any AI could operate without those sort of parameters. It has to understand cause and effect in some way.
>>519581179>copilot ai gets cucked by the worklift at hangar 9>send the whole crew into a cliff
>>519578993>>519579103>>519579237>>519579353>>519579417Please go back to Greenpeace or whatever animal defense force shithole your kind likes
>>519578348Ultima Online launched with an intricately designed ecosystem simulator where the number of predators to prey would be influenced by player activity, allowing you to dynamically influence the state of the environment and observe how it reacts and what animals would dominate it.On day one, players proceeded to slaughter everything in sight, and nobody noticed the system even existed. It was quietly replaced with conventional NPC spawners.
What about Rimworld?
>>519580870not that much, on paper. You only hard part of a neural network is to decide what should represent an entry stimulus, and what should the different responses should be. Then to find how to feed it in less than a century of die and retry.
>>519581394What a stupid idea
>>519581403did Chief manage to bang her yet? I dropped the series after Reach
>>519581207Because there is no AI looking at this information and deciding for itself on what it wants to doIts a simple cause and effectYou do X, orcs now have Y to counter X.Its all shit the devs have specifically coded to work in such a manner.
>>519578348>rock throwing is what pushing into s tier>not long pointy stick meta that lasted until the advent of gunsUgg serious hope u no do this.
The original Rayman boasted an AI that would learn your playstyle to defeat you.
>>519578796FEAR didn't have smart AI. Just smart level design and dialogue.
>>519581442Rimworld? MORE LIKE RIMJOB AM I RIGHT LADS?
>>519581492It was a different time. Developers expected players to act like people not like players.
>>519579690>when tourists try to fit in
>>519581352Those faggots are acting like animals even have a concept of past and future in their “languages”
In the rFactor racing simulator, it is possible to "calibrate" the AI for each track, leaving it training looking for the best possible time.
>>519578796Improved AI is an expensive waste of time in video games, both in terms of computational power and financially speaking. Also, people want short encounters with enemies with recognizable patterns that they can solve like a small puzzle every time. They don't want to play mental chess with the computer for 2 hours to clear a short level.
>>519578445>>519578659If the size of their records are all exactly 512mb they probably hit the cap and crashed out.
>>519581782I want to play mental chess for 2 hours. Thats why i play competitive Pokemon now.
>>519579574Probably because you all let this shit get to you. /v/ might as well mean /v/ulnerable because our trolls became cannibalistic.
>>519581618You mean that one hunter that would duck when you attacked him?
>>519579417What the fuck other animal has created more complex structures, both in the physical and abstract sense, than humans?>inb4 "idk dolphins are supposed to be real smart bro"
>>519579574The answer is always the year 2007.
>>519582110wow bros where were you when you realized that beavers were the actual master species
>>519579574There's a difference between using spacing normally andposting like this
>>519582172Seethe harderTake the beaverpill
>>519578796Do you not realize that it is trivial to make an AI that absolutely shits on players?That hard part is to limit it in ways that make it seem realistic and not completely destroy the player.
>>519581546No, she died and then then turned into la goblina, destroyer of worlds
>>519580284You mean people who understand paragraphing not adjusting for the fact that blocks of text look far more dense when shown in the puny ass box that's used for making posts. This isn't difficult.
>>519580259AI is literally nothing but a gigantic list of if-checks.
Never played STALKER but I heard wonders about its AI.Someone give me a run down.
>>519582274>it is trivial to make an AI that absolutely shits on playersBecause if it had access to all the information, it would just read your inputs and take the easiest shortcut to fuck you upThat's not the same as having better tactical sense than the player with the exact same information a human would have
>>519582087I dunno man ant hills and rabbit burrows are pretty complex
>>519582183most people who get called out for "redditspacing" don't talk like thatthey just space normally like this and then some sperg tourist comes and tries to make a big deal out of it because they think it'll make them look like they fit in
>>519582043Not sure I haven't played it a long while I just remember it saying on the box.
>>519580357Have you been outside lately?There's that huge fireball in the sky and everyone acts like that's normal or they can't see it.People outside are fucking insane, anon.
>>519578796Fear is not AI, its responsive scripts that trick you into thinking its AI
>>519582183Good thing no one on this thread besides you posts like that then
>>519582274Not sure why people don't get that a truly "smart and learning ai" is one that would not be limited by all the bullshit devs placed on it. It'll be like playing a single player game except that all the enemy grunts are actual players. Obviously youd get shit on
video game developers are too unskilled and stupid to create good AI
>>519582484Everyone just ignores it because they can't comprehend how big it is, and if they look at it, they'll go blindIt controls the weather and holds the fate of our species in its hands, so it's better to just avoid pissing it off
>>519582609Do basically what they've done with OpenAI playing Dota 2.The bot API for that game only exposes information that players could have access to and restricts everything else.It still can't learn live while playing and needs to train itself on tens of thousands of matches between iterations but it has become somewhat decent, I guess.
>>519580372>need INT to realize that INT is brokenwho thought this was fair?
oh my god i wish i could have s*x
>>519580842Nobody will miss you when you're gone
>>519582087He's larping as a lizard people.
>>519579837>humans>dominatehumans are just puppets of wheat, the true dominant lifeform on earth
>>519582458Moot got cucked, should we get cucked as well?
>>519582931copeyou are right though moot is a cuck
>>519582771>somewhat decentOpenAI five absolutely trashes any regular player and even beat OG (the reigning world champs)https://venturebeat.com/2019/04/22/openais-dota-2-bot-defeated-99-4-of-players-in-public-matches/
>>519583169i would beat openai
>ctrl-f "black & white">0 resultsFor fuck's sake /v/
>>519583262That doesn't have an AI learning genuinely novel tasks, you're just altering the weights for its behavior.
>>519583319name a game that does then bitch
>>519581638>HURR DURR SMOEK AND MIRRORS!!!Doesn't change the fact that it had a goal oriented approach that allowed soldiers to function on every modeled enviroment of the game, with or without the squad AI aiding it.Keep parroting the "All they do is announce their actions" meme, fucking loser.
>>519583358There aren't any, but that's what OP asked for.
>>519582451Don't forget termites.
>>519580103Need more lurking, newfag
>>519583169It's pretty strong but I remember that they wanted to do a Bo5 against the AI at TI and stopped after the third game because it just become boring to watch and the pro players had figured out how to beat it.
>>519583319altering weights for behavior is how AI basically works though (at least reinforcement learning / Qlearning / neural networks). It can be a LOT of weights, but its just weights.
>>519583262>>519583319>>519583358The creature in B&W is a genuinely well-crafted AI though, that "feels" like it's learning as you teach it things. I unironically think it's one of the absolute best implementations of AI in video games. Not 100% what OP wished for but it's something special which in 160 posts ITT has not been mentioned, and that is a shame.
>>519581613It's about being able to throw things, not rocks.
>>519582110Ah yes, a beaver dam. More complex than the large hadron collider.
>>519583645i don't remember asking
>>519583682>typical retard human is only good at posting images of ugly anime girls how unsurprisingly typical of your species
>>519578845>NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGERYes, very complex
>>519583685I don't know who you are, what you asked, or what you remember, but that's ok. I got to talk about B&W on /v/.I taught my creature to plant trees near my village and continuously water them until the forest was so big it started lagging out my computer. It makes me very happy to do this, and it's one of the comfiest experiences in vidya.
>>519579574My favorite part of the reddit spacing argument is the fact that people have been doing it before reddit even existed
I genuinely believe that the reddit spacing antagonism is a psyop. Let me explain. When someone makes an assertion on 4chan, you have always had to be prepared to be called a faggot or a nigger. That's just how it's always been. However, there has been a significant trend towards low character posts and the absolute rejection of longer posts that aren't bullet pointed via green text. Any sort of larger conversation about just one or two subtopics leads to people saying you are a redditor, or alternatively you may try to compensate for this ahead of time by utilizing typical anti-gish gallop techniques and then eliminating spacing altogether even though it helps to accentuate the points of your (counter) argument. Such as what I am doing right now. The issue is that people are less likely to read a giant block of text than they would several spaced out sentences as your brain is retarded and perceives one being easier to digest than the other. Formatting is key. You were taught this in school and there is a reason for it. Why I believe this happens is because longer posts have the difficulty of typically being harder to refute (they may even cite sources, use technical jargon, etc.). Why is this important? Because coordinated attacks on the sight to change opinion necessitate fast, low information and high throughput posting by people who typically aren't well versed in English, or at least not well versed enough to communicate on equal footing in English as someone who is. In other words, that Chink who is trying to convince you that the EPIC store is good and fuck GOG can't actually participate in any longer dialogue because he lacks the ability to do so. It's far easier for him to FUD from his script and make comments like onions, cuck, BBC, etc. Due to this they actively train lurkers to avoid longer posts simply by remarking about the spacing regardless of the content in hopes of getting you to ignore it almost reflexively. Now, isn't spacing great?
>>519583682Consider this:Can YOU build a large hadron collider?Well guess what: EVERY beaver builds a dam. How fucking cool is that shit
>>519580906Watch it buddy, thems fightin words
>>519583929have some more
>>519581860>hahahaha it's a joke entry that wasn't properly labelledYawn.
>>519582110>Beaver dams...have you ever seen a beaver dam anon? They're not complex things, literally just mud and sticks, it's no more complex than any other rodents nest, the only difference is the material. inb4 african hut
>>519583903he has alzheimers
>>519584307>all those namefags
>>519583169OpenAI never played actual dota though, it played a super limited format designed to be simple enough for it to solve without decades of (real-time) training. It was pretty unstoppable at that limited format, but I think they thought it would be easier to generalize to the actual game than it was. If you read the last blog post, you can see it was struggling to learn new heroes for some reason. It's definitely a really cool project, but some people talk it up to be more than it was.
>>519584137>oldfagsunironically cringe, what a retarded exchange
>>519584307I miss /l/
>>519584307Did oldfags really tolerate all these fucking tripfags god damn
>>519583973Well, it may have started as a psyop, but imo now its 95% retards who copy ever meme they see.
>>519583929Mine is that the only people who know about the "reddit spacing" are redditors themselves
>>519583513I think they underestimated the difference between beating a team of ex-pro casters and beating actual pros, so they went into TI overconfident and got dumpstered by the last place team on the first day.
>fish grows lung and turns into mutant beaver>mutant beaver goes in tree and becomes monke>monke goes down from tree and become humanI don't get it, why not skip the tree part? Is living in trees an essential step in acquiring humanity?
>>519584690ThisHow would they even know what it looks like unless they were plebbitors?
>>519579574>>519580619>>519580829>>5195821834chan has "gone wrong" multiple times in the past, but the most recent time was caused by the influx of redditors following the rise in popularity of /r/4chanthese new users only understand 4chan from the way it is portrayed on reddit, which is why they describe double spacing as "reddit spacing", even though double spacing has obviously been used for centuriesthese are the same users who complain that 4chan has "lost its edge" or "become SJW/onions/liberal". they weren't using the site before the Obama years, so they don't understand that 4chan is largely the same that is has always been politically, with the exception of /pol/i could go on about how easy it is to spot these people once you know what to look for, but it really isn't that big a deal. old 4chan still exists, there's just a layer of scum on top. like old nacho cheese
>>519584640there is a reason that tripfags are so despised today. it is only through thorough vigilance and careful policing that the tripfag menace is kept at bay.Please, if you see a tripfag, call him out.
>>519584640Between tripfags and dilate/tranny/cope/seethe/onions/wojack/pepe,I wonder what I would choose.
>>519584715You need to go to the tree to get all the hands and legs and fingers and thumbs partsAll necessary for living in a tree. Need good fingers for banana
>>519583903Its pretty sad, though, that the way the creature AI was coded will ultiimately always lead them to go 'insane' when they grow old
>>519584715The selection pressure wasn't "become humanity" it was "not get eaten proto-lion on the ground"
>>519584307Imagine being such a fucking bitch that you have a gallery ready to defend redditspacing.Literally the same argument as "WELL WE USED RAGE FACES BACK THEN SO IT'S FINE TO USE THEM NOW LOL"It was fine thenIt's not fine nowShut the fuck up retard.
>>519584810i would choose the wojacks in a fucking heartbeattripfags violate the entire fucking point of this website just so they can stroke their own ego
>>519582484>>519582687based cosmic horror chads
>>519584715>>fish grows lung and turns into mutant beaverHow the fuck does this happen though?
>>519585062imagine having redditfags live in your head rent-free so severely that you stop using syntax lolcope
>>519584998I'm not sure I ever had a creature that old, but they can certainly learn to be retarded, and it can be hard to un-learn retarded habits.I've often had creatures decide they want to "bring something home" and start collecting all their poop in the sleeping pen, then roll around in it and have the poops bounce around and damage my temple.
>>519581352>"isn't it weird that we're the only animals with language">some other animals have language>"Please go back to Greenpeace or whatever animal defense force shithole your kind likes"
>>519584754Don't forget the electionfags telling you to go back to the place they came from.Mods not permabanning everyone talking about GG was the biggest fucking mistake of this board.
>>519585132>Chad Megalodon can't swim on shallow water lol>Fucking low tide leaves me without water FUCK>Over a gorillion years learn to breathe air, noice>Full land megalodon-free for me and the bois
>>519585062>I-I better conform to n-nu /v/ standards because we should all be the s-same person
>>519585315mods deleting GG threads was the reason it got so out of hand in the first place
What really makes humans special is the following:>Theory or mind (understanding that others have a mind of their own)>A body designed for throwing>A body designed for long distance runningSure we're smart, but just being smart doesn't get us very far, it could even be a liability as a big brain requires big energy while arguably not being as useful in moment to moment survival as big muscles and sharp claws.But we can ask others questions because we understand that they understand. This lets us learn on a level beyond any other animal.Our body is uniquely designed for throwing. We can keep balance while we throw something, Apes (who are much stronger than us) can only weakly lob something due to their relatively long arms and short legs. This gives us an unprecedented ranged advantage.Lastly, while we're slow compared to four legged animals we can run for incredible distances because we sweat unlike most animals.Sure you'll never outsprint a deer, but if we run a marathon against one we'll win easily.
>>519585062>It's not fine nowSays who? Some newfag that came here in 2016 and thinks he knows what he's talking about? Eat a bullet, kid.And in case you haven't noticed, squirt, half the memes 4chan uses to this day are all practically just an evolved different kind of ragefaces anyhow.
>>519585062>you aren't allowed to type normally because ive arbitrarily connected it with redditimagine being so fucking fragile that text formatting triggers youthese retards wont stop. greentext is next. they've already started whining about it on some boards.leave
>>519585062would you start shaving your eyebrows if you heard that only redditfags let their eyebrows stay on their face
>>519585360yep, if mods/moot had just let GG threads be and not touched them it never would have escalated and probably would have burned out quickly
>>519584076Oh wow some faggot mammals stacked some sticks
>>519578348I expect within a decade we will have actual machine learning integrated into video games. It's going to be the new golden age of gaming when you have an actual smart opponent to play against. Not just enemies but also story tellers too.
>>519578845Termites lived in giant sky scrapers when humans were still fighting with sticks
>>519585373Theory of mind is interesting, because there are examples in animals that seem to suggest they can have it, too. Though perhaps not on the same level.Look up Alex the parrot, who is the only animal known to have ever asked a question.
>>519578348yes, plenty, but they're always very limited in how much/what they can learn. obviously most usually it's some bespoke conceptual representation of player behavior patterns.
>>519585396>greentextit's called memearrows you fucking reddit newshit
>>519585743>he doesn't call them comedy chevrons
>>519585285Not more complex, or even complexly all, than ours.No need to suck of nature because you have a shitty job
>>519584754>redditors pretending they're oldfags and acting like this website wasn't always a flaming shothole "before the Obama years"Always gets a chuckle out of me. You'd think that they'd have the shame to not talk out of their ass and blatantly lie about things plenty of people here probably saw first hand, but I guess the fact that they're anonymous means they think people aren't immune to their bullshit.
>>519585315>>519585360absolutely not. GG was out of hand from the getgo. whether you advocated for one side or the other this website could have faced legal trouble as a result of the harassment campaigns.This, btw, is why moot disassociated himself with the website. What had previously been a fun and interesting experiment had rapidly become a serious threat to his career, future projects, and personal lifeyou people honestly dont even realize how lucky we were that gamergate didnt kill 4chan outright
>>519585813>I guess the fact that they're anonymous means they think people aren't immune to their bullshit.anyone who has been on this site for more than a month knows this and wouldnt feel the need to say itgo back
>>519585813you are so obvious
>>519585871The only thing wrong with GG is all the shit they were fighting against is still rampant in video games industry and journalism
>>519585871>another redditor/restoration tranny talking out of his assMoot did all that shit because he was simping for some dumb whore who ended up cucking him anyways. He's a giant faggot and him leaving was good for the website. This site would be even worse than it is now with him at the helm.
>>519578659Did that Anon ever post the AI log?
>>519586126Based, I was there as well friend
>>519585396>that pic>Dobson's ancestors.jpg
>>519585871we had been shitting on journalists for years by that pointbanning all discussion of it just made anyone that wanted a forum and not a curated experience ride their wheelchairs out of here and into an echo chamber
>>519586158Carmack said it was fake, retard.
>>519580406This, when someone says a normal spacing is r*edit is to make mad someone. But anyway, redditards are easy to spot outside of spacing
>>519580492We can throw better. Being fully bipedal means our arms are only for manipulating shit
>>519586207post your oldest image
>>519580829It's never meant that.>>519579574>Where have we gone wrong?Look up the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act.>>519582183Yeah but what it boils down to is just making a point of never having only single-sentence paragraphs breaks in your post. Sprinkle one line break in and you're set. This is stupid.Because there's nothing wrong with a post that uses that structure for emphasis (if it's something you're doing mindfully and not Reddit muscle memory--the latter sucks but witchhunting the former along with them is a gayass shibboleth).Plus there's a reason Reddit has the formatting it has: some faggot nerds tried to make it a web standard to never use single line breaks (using shit like Markdown) back before Reddit even existed. I strongly disagree with them but the point is it isn't even a Reddit thing, it's a deliberate stylistic choice some people believed in even if their justifications were retarded.
>>519586325Not him but I’ve lost several hard drives and stopped bothering with saving images.An early one I remember saving arou Nd 2007 was the Asian guy playing a fire extinguisher with a telephone on his head, it still pops up sometimes, but I didn’t bother re-saving it
>>519586209>>519586126>>519585871GG wouldn't have fizzeled out, stormfronters basically confirmed that they used this board and those threads specifically to recruit easily impressable basement dwellers because they knew this is the place where outrage shit goes to reddit to multiply ad infinitum.
>>519586325I've had many computers over the last 10-15 years and I haven't always carried over my reaction image folder because I'm not interested in proving anything to some newfaggot on /v/
>>519586541oh so you're a redditor? that's crazy dude
>>519585871GG was nothing unique. It was just the first time where speculation had a factor of reality so people took it too far without being totally sure the things they were reading were true or not. A lot of it was too. Just the way people went on direct attack over it is where the lines got crossed.
>>519586514and they were only able to do that because discussion was banned literally everywhere else
>>519586514Sort of like ISIS confirms they are behind every school shooting in the west?LARPers gonna LARP
>>519586514ok cool idc, who gives a fuck about making sure gg fizzles out
>>519578659>>519578445Iirc the one of the devs confirmed it is fake. Not that it would be necessary because you can think about it for a minute and realize that it doesn't work like that. Cool story though, definitely nice read.
>>519585871at this point i wish it did and we weren't just left with the braindead vegetable of a site we have today
>>519585813Tell me one game /v/ has made since GG retards came to shit up the place? Hell tell me any successful project of any kind /v/ has achieved since you tourist retards came here?
>>519586586I was an underage b& for years on /b/ in the 2000s, I dont give a shit about proving anything to some faggot redditor like you. I just don't want random anons in this thread to walk away thinking your faggot LARP alternate history is correct.
>>519586835what's that? you've posted on reddit for years? whatever you say dude
>>519586872Put on a trip so I can filter you nigger
>>519586927you want to downvote me like on reddit? we don't do that here dude, you must be confused
>>519586619>and they were only able to do that because discussion was banned literally everywhere elseThat's prime bullshit and you know it, 4chan is/was just by far the most popular site which had a space for video game discussion and has a fuckton of filthy crossposters.
Based humans dabbin on everything else in the planet, including the planet itself.
>>519583319stellaris uses weight ... so does any civ game and any other strategy game
>>519585871>>you people honestly dont even realize how lucky we were that gamergate didnt kill 4chan outrightYeah I unironically believe gamergate was a government psyop to basically refactor the entire online community landscape practically overnight.There's a paper trail going back to at least 2012 strongly indicating they were planning something like that and they had to pull the trigger sooner or later. But I don't think anyone expected anything so abrupt and far-reaching.The fact that 4chan didn't get wiped out is either a total fluke or a strong indication that feds had successfully infiltrated the admin staff already.
>>519579690No one cared about spacing until Reddit invaders came here and began accusing others of using the structure. I literally heard of Reddit HERE when some faggot accused me of Reddit spacing. Fucking irony.
>>519586927He’s just baiting, I believe you, I was the same, started browsing /b/ when I was 13 in 2007
>>519582183Nobody posts like that. /v/ literally just starts screaming about reddit spacing if you press enter 1 single time in your post for any reason because the whole board is a bunch of monkeys in a room with a banana on a ladder.
>>519586927>>519586835>>519586541>>519586207>>519585813you got raped
>>519583639You know what he meant and it's obviously not what you're talking about.There's a massive difference between altering global weights for certain behaviors and using even a single layer perceptron to get next action based on current state.
>>519582931moot is gayits easier for him to be dating the guy that "cucked" him than that chick
>>519587117Got some sources for this? Any easy-to-read infographics so I don't have to research it myself?
>>519587152>there's probably some 13 year old on this board right now>they'll probably still be here 5 years from nowtis be a frightening thought lad
>>519587139This site has been consistently shooting itself in the foot over and over thanks to redditors trying to desperately separate themselves from reddit
so why has no game good realistic AI?
>>519587379because of >>519582684
>>519578348No, games are painfully behind machine learning tech
>>519587303Yes to sources, but no it's not the kind of thing anyone would put in an infographic to make it super easy to handwave away. You'd need to actually read some research papers, acts of congress and old stats posts
>>519587420why cant they hire people for that?
>>519587379because the player has to be able to win the gamedo you think the average kid that plays videogame can outsmart even the dumbest TRUE AI out there?
>>519587379Because it's a ton of work to get AI to work well and ton of work means ton of money.Most players are way too retarded to notice that the AI is good and are easily fooled by tricks.For example, lots of players think that FEAR has amazing AI that communicates.It's not a bad AI, but its behaviors are much simpler than most people think they are.
>>519587548because the people they could hire for that have better things to be doing than working on some dumb video game besides even the top people for AI aren't good enough at it yet to make what the idea we have in our heads of AI truly is come true anyway
>>519587510Well, should I believe that you have done this?
>>519582470ok, so it's a fat lie, nothing like that happens in rayman
>>519587554>do you think the average kid that plays videogame can outsmart even the dumbest TRUE AI out there?Yes, because """true AI""" (lmao what a name) and computers in general are dumb as rocks. Operating speed is not intelligence, and all you tech illiterate monkeys need to get that through your thick skulls.
>>519586126That was the edgy idiot 15 year old child take at the time, yes. No one older than 20 was so deluded. The website was threatened with legal action if they did not immediately take action to prevent targeted online harassment.Millionaire entrepreneurs don't make their money "simping for some dumb whore", they make it by innovating and not violating the law, among other things. Moot was good at both. It's why he's been so successful.
>>519587379costs too much and the average retard cares more about having SUPER DELUXE REALISTIC GRAPHICS HOLY SHIT YOU CAN SEE EVERY HAIR FOLLICLE 10/10 then anything pertaining gameplay
>>519587967>Operating speed is not intelligenceBut you need operating speed to have intelligence operate in sensible time.Checkmate AItheists
>>519578796>the FEAR AI memeLurk Alpha Star, shithead.
>>519585619Large hadron collider is just humans smashing two things together again because last time when they did that they created fire
>>519581782No anon that is exactly what I want
>>519587379Because nobody wants that in a game. It's not something game devs couldn't implement unlike some of the chucklefucks itt think: it's not actually all that arcane and there are many top-of-field devs in games (even if there are also plenty of monkeys).It's just that the point of AI is to optimise behaviour and you don't want optimal non-human players. Like take any given singleplayer shooter. It's the player versus whole squads of soldiers at a time. If those squads had "realistic" agency then you'd have no hope of ever beating them unless the game abandons any suggestion of symmetry. You'd have to have magic powers as well as guns, or something, otherwise it'd be like playing 1v12 counterstrike. So that rules out any actual "realistic" genres.More asymmetry is fine as you get further into more fantastic or sci-fi settings, but the further away from a "realistic" setting you go the less you'd need or that there'd be any point in realistic AI agents.(But this is just replying to the question the way it's being phrased... in reality yeah, you could certainly tune dumber types of AI to find a sweet spot, but the way navigation agents etc work in games currently it just means reaching a break-even point where that'd have some benefit over standard approaches)
>>519581179isnt that just kantai collection?
What needs to happen is, we need to have some breakthrough with computers first. Most likely Quantum Computing but who knows. Then when we get to a point where game devs have access to that, THEN maybe they can start pulling off fancy AI. Maybe some game can ping the server the devs have and constantly update the AI based on universal player actions or something. I don't know but we'll get there eventually.
>>519588212The funny thing is the SC2 guy just jerks his APM for the most part.
>>519580131People always got mad at really autistic things like spacing and punctuation the fuck you talking about?
>>519582087An average fucking phone you're using to peddle your bullshit is more complex than anything any animal ever created.
>>519578796MGSV had great AI, soldier would search for you in 2 man squads and split up to snuff you out
>>519588212Is SC2 still alive these days? I have been wanting to get back into it for a while but I haven't played since early wings of liberty
>>519588895It is. It's much more fun since the time they changed starting workers to 12.
Speaking of Start Craft 2. Didn't the devs setup some Machine Learning AI to take on the top players? How difficult is it for the average person to setup something like that? Is it even possible with home hardware?
>>519578845we more or less won the genetic lottery>bipedal, meaning freeing up 2 appendages manufacture and use tools>big brain boy, having the ability to learn>social, able to communicate knowledge and build upon existing knowledge, basically the more of us there are the smarter we become>cooperation, able to build complex social structures and organize labor to be more efficient>long lived, able to build up knowledge over a long period of time to more easily pass it on to future generations, basically any given tribe only has to discover fire onceno other species really has all of these characteristics, even neanderthals, one of our closest hominid relatives lacked the more complex social structures of homo sapiens sapiens
>>519588434wow you really think ai is magic alien technology huhAI is already used in games in a bunch of ways: asset generation, economy managment, skinner box brainwashing and other stuff that's already been mentionedit's just not something you really want to use for enemies because nobody wants super intelligent enemies because otherwise the shittiest mook goombah would be like a bomb kart in splitscreen mario kart 64, fucking your shit up in the cheesiest way possible, and actual tough enemies would be a nightmare.and you don't want it to replace multiplayer either because what would be the point of battling something, even if it plays convincingly as well as a human (rather than simply being unbeatable), if you know it isn't actually a human?conviviality is important in games. playing with other people isn't just about the challenge, there's value derived from sharing an experiencewhen it IS used for that sort of thing it'll be because it's an efficient way to do it. there's a lot of benefits in emergent learning and training processes which could be used to make creative and interesting AI interactions, or simply a cheap off-the-shelf approach to setting up enemy AI, but enemies are meant to be dumb because they're toys and you'd never actually want it to be "realistic" like they're fighting for their fucking lives
>>519581782>They don't want to play mental chess with the computer for 2 hours to clear a short levelYeah why would anyone ever want that haha
>>519581352go back to your yellow man twitter, I'm sure he posted something new especially for "gifted" kids like you.
>>519589314Let them dream. Anything is possible. Whether it's practical or not is a whole nother beast.
>>519587379Good AI is difficult to implement, extremely performance intensive, and the returns on making strong AI are minimal since most of the money's in multiplayer games anyways.There's 0 financial incentive to making truly good AI in games. Smoke and mirrors is far more cost efficient.
>>519588139And computers have nothing that could be perceived as intelligence, so we're back to square one.
>>519587967Play chess against AI on the hardest difficultyYou will lose every fucking time buddy, AI has been destroying chess grandmasters for decades
>>519589250It's not the devs.Alphastar is not related to blizzard.>How difficult is it for the average person to setup something like that?If the Alphastar team released all their sources and data, a non-shit programmer could set it up.>Is it even possible with home hardware?Running an Alphastar instance might be possible with high-end hardware. Unless it learns on the fly.Having it learn would not be feasible with home hardware.
>>519589250I don't think it was the devs, it was a full-on research lab and they had to roll a bunch of custom training stuff over a span of a couple years to get an AI that can play visually via the normal interface like a human without any special API cheats or anything.Sure it's possible with consumer hardware, the challenge is in system design and analytics though. So if you're asking the question the answer is no, you couldn't do something like that.But if you mean just getting a finished snapshot of an AI and running it then sure. I'm not sure about the SC2 one but some of these systems are surprisingly lightweight.I doubt they're giving it out though since that would fucking destroy multiplayer in any given game.
>>519584754I miss Mineralanon
>>519578348Sort of.FEAR had some very rudimentary learning.There are other games that did similar things except, the enemies just magically forget later.
I remember thinking 20-ish years ago about how cool the concept of Simulants were in Perfect Dark, and how much crazier things would get as tech continued to improve. I also thought the concept of abstracted health bars/HP in realtime games would fall out of favor and be replaced with physics emulation and anatomy based wounding/material damage calculations.Needless to say the last several generations have been disappointing.
>>519585810Nobody said it was though, why are you angry
>>519579690>WeNo, "we" created the reddit spacing meme to bait newfags into taking it seriously and make themselves look like foolsfuck off newfag
>>519589539it's not a question of practicality. I'm saying it's totally practical. it's just stupid. every game is you versus a whole army: do you really want them to actually act like an intelligent army?i'm just reacting to the retards saying it's something devs don't do because they can't, if we're using those sorts of games as an example applicationbut in general it will become more common because it totally makes sense to use it, for workflow/economic/design/novelty reasons, but not for "realistic" anything. in an adversarial sense, at least.
>>519590120It's graphics man.That and the "good enough" mentality.The industry is no longer interested in good, clever, and long term solutions.It's all about that Pajeet mentality of "Good enough to ship".People are no longer even building scalable engine pieces.
>>519584671Zoomer see, zoomer do.
>>519578348pic related has you covered>>519590414"we" didn't create shit, it was a forced meme so outside groups could establish themselves here with bespoke identity politics gimmicks like that
Yes there was a weird game whose name i can't even remember. It was fucking trash and forgotten to the dustbin of history.
>>519578348There was this one recent stealth game where the Ai would mimic the player's actions. It wasn't an actual learning Ai and more like a scripted if then behavior, but the end result was still rather neat.
>>519590969That sounds cool.
>>519587379Because writing up some netcode and setting up a server is much easier than creating an artificial human mind.
>>519578348Smash 4 and Killer Instinct 2013 come to mind. In both, you can make an AI that learns from your habits.
>>519590120>physics emulation and anatomy based wounding/material damage calculations.Funnily enough this is something I've been thinking about for like 20 years as well, working as a game designer. It's something a few games have experimented with, but the issue is that realistic biological damage means shit like a bone chip flying into your brain at right angles semi-randomly. Ballistics is also something that happens so fast it's nearly invisible while complex damage modelling would happen mostly internally where you could never see it either, so for a lot of effort the player experience boils down to a dice roll. Realistic consequences of non-fatal woundings are also... slow, boring, and not fun. I've seen at least one physics-based medieval combat demo with a cool material/impact system but it's hard to call it enjoyable. I forget the name.But some genres where you can take time to study your trajectory and specific damage for every shot do make use of at least a version of it: that basically mostly means hunting games with an x-ray shot summary and injury/bleeding system, where it's indeed really cool.Also in a really simplified way it's even mainstream with things like RDR2's vital organ-based critical system.It works REALLY well for vehicle combat simulations though.
>>519579690good luck getting literally anyone to read your post if its more than a paragraph long
TLDR was a mistake.
>>519588263And now we're creating mini black holes
>>519586710Carmack himself replied to it.
>>519590120>>519591669The problem with:>>physics emulation and anatomy based wounding/material damage calculations.Is that there's very little reason to bother with a complex simulation like this if it isn't going to translate into something visually and/or mechanically enjoyable. Who cares if you've broken an enemy's leg in 3 different, realistically calculated, ways if there's no, equally robust, procedural animation to display the effect to the player? Not to mention: having to make this insane damage model interact with the rest of your game's systems in a meaningful way.
>>519580103In case anyone's wondering, delete the 'm' at the end of the numbers at the end of the URL after opening in new tab
>>519578845don't prairie hogs or some other similar animal have a complex language that can convey lots of information regarding predators really quickly
>>519592650>equally robust, procedural animation to display the effect to the player?Goes without saying that that's part of the package deal. MGS2 dabbled a small bit in this, enemy soldiers being crippled and losing control of their limbs and painfully suffering from non-vital wounds.
>>519580492they really can't in any lethal capacity, they are definitely stronger than us but they don't have the physique to throw stuff in any meaningful way. they can hurt you throwing a rock but it's not going to kill we used our arms to throw spears around and chase preys until they collapsed. our biggest advantage is our actual endurance and long distance running / heat management. most animals are minmaxed for short bursts of energy but they overheat quickly, we are balanced for heat dissipation and chasing animals long term, while being slow slow and steady wins the race sort of thing
>>519581860Man that just got me to watch Containment again.
>>519582298American women are all the fucking same, even the AI ones...
>>519578845>uh muh nigga muh dick muh bitch muh gunamerican is so retarded lmao
>>519586265>ask question based on lack of knowledge>you're a retard for itDrink water aspie.
>>519581352Yikerino what do you mean my good boi cat-son doesn't speak? He speaks to me all the time!
>>519593076What you're describing is just a rudimentary damage model with additional animations and Ai behaviors, not a physics-based damage model with procedural animations. It's the same old "health bar abstraction", except with multiple health bars per character.
>>519583929These people seem so articulate...Remember when only the intellectually curious took the time to learn how to use a computer?
>>519578348>>519578796Remnant from the Ashes was pretty decent
>>519593627Hence "dabbled", a pale imitation, but a step in a better direction compared to most modern games where shooting a guy in the ankle 5 times kills him as quickly and the same way as 5 rounds to the gut.
>>519583929It's been used since typewriters exist and writers to this day still argue what's their monospace or double space policy You could talk to any secretary or desk clerk and she would have an opinion when and why use double spacing when writing e-mails and letters Most people just do it in-between paragraphs, I do it if my text is too long and I want to delineate between a change of subject
>>519578796Algorithms can only go so far. You can't inject randomness into algorithms
>>519579574>2011>old /v/I miss when zoomers weren't born.
>>5195949269 years ago was a long time grandpa
>>519584810I choose the buzzword maelstrom. Fuck tripniggers.
>>519579103Lmao octopus only live 2-3 years
>>519593627>>519592650You're just kind of agreeing in between missing the point. Yeah there's reasons it isn't broadly practical, that's what we were discussing.>this insane damage model I dunno what's insane about a more realistic physical simulation. Something less abstract is kind of the opposite of that, and for many parts of a game system that's what we're always striving toward.But we always have to pick and choose.It depends on the style of the game, and that goes for everything: realism in sound and graphics and physics are just as flexible.Practically all (but not all) styles of game we've popularly explored so far aren't the types of game that benefit from realistic damage. Nobody wants to get shot in the thigh in the middle of an online WW1 battle only to be forced to crawl until they bleed out seven minutes later. That's a given.But there contra-examples. Hunting games were already given. Realistic bullet dynamics, deflection, material properties/layering, hydrostatic shock, multi-organ injuries and cascading organ failure/bleeding, even neurological effect modelling, are all highly desirable in those. As would procedural gait simulation affected by those factors.
>>519580114>>519580197Someone should really make an oldchan or something.
Fortnite.Epic games makes engines.
>>519593642Back when that screenshot was set it was a common topic of discussion on web forums whether it would be possible to enact some kind of aptitude or intelligence test for the internet before it was too late.rip
>>519578348Unironically, amiibos in Smash
>>519587007>That's prime bullshit and you know it,Either you allow discussion freely or people will seek it out somewhere else, it’s not a difficult concept
>>519584810Tripfags and namefags, fags though they were, could every-so-often contribute something of worth to the board, like OC or storytimes. >>519585073You don't think the current trend of fishing for (you)s by reducing everything to buzzword salad is just an example of people attempting to stroke their own ego? You think that shitty wojack edits contribute more to this board than things defined the board culture for years, be it posted by tripfags or not?
Don't Amiibo in SSB4/SSBU have some sort of AI? There are many accounts of people training them.
>>519584640Not really. Half the reason was goofing off and there's probably more because Snacks was online, I dunno. Plus /v/ was believe it or not actually a kinda slow special interest board early on and you always get more tripfags on those, simply because it's possible to recognise and hold conversations.It definitely wasn't all bad: a few boards even had early beloved tripfags. People didn't do it EXCLUSIVELY to be obnoxious like they do today. A lot of people would even change their name constantly if not in every thread so the trip was more like ID on an ID board today; you don't notice it unless you need to look at it.>>519584808Actually Shii's "Whitepaper" used to be linked on every page of the site and outlined the purpose of anonymity and when it makes sense to use a name. So those fags were definitely being fags right from the beginning. But it was a transitional period.
>>519578348https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HEcNqQm9XcI remember everyone claiming back in the day that the units in this game had actual AI that learned, but no idea if that's true, and I never played enough to confirm it. Anyone?
>>519596532It's actually a shame all the fucking memesters have to oversimplify everything to the same in/outgroup clubhouse bullshit because as a result people often don't even use trips for the purpose they're supposed to be used, like being identifiable for a single thread when you're delivering OC or asking for advice and need to avoid highly comedic impersonators.Which I GUESS would be fine if you retards also understood anonymity but instead it feels like literally 50% of threads today get dragged down and killed by one moron accusing everyone of being a samefag after they say something dumb and get called out. People wouldn't have stood for that white-noise failure in logic up until a few years ago and now it's half of every fucking board.
>>519580619Everyone use reddit and discord nowadays. 4chan is used only for shitposting.
>>519583929This isnt reddit spacing. Reddit eats your first carriage return. So if you make a crLike this on 4chan its fine.If you doubt le return it looks like a paragraph. To get the same effect on reddit.You need three fucking CRs. That's how you know a redditor, they put too many cr when they make long posts.Its much easier to just have 4chan gold pass and turn on cookie inspector.
>>519578659An entertaining read but fake as fuck.
Wasn't that the gimmick of Alien Isolation? Or was that just fancy smoke and mirrors?
>>519586514Moot lost his NSA and Google contracts., google did offer him a job though. They made as much progress as they could. They trained a neural net to identify anonymized people based on their posting style. They also use it to capture terrorists of course and people posting stupid illegal shit. You think that one anime store actually paid for this shit for 15 years?
>>519578952very occasionally your post and someone elses post will have images swapped.
>>519593076I agree in principle.>>519595265>You're just kind of agreeing in between missing the point.I guess? The point I'm making is that a design justification is the only thing that matters. Expecting to see any grand deviations like a physics-based damage model from existing game templates is naive.
>>519599501Wasn't even fancy.Plus the AI cheats on harder difficulties.
>>519580182You think our ancient ancestors didn't also trip and fall wrong and died from a concussion? Hell, on a hunting trip if you sprained your ankle it was practically a death sentence.
>>519599628>Expecting to see any grand deviations like a physics-based damage model from existing game templates is naive.Nobody implied they were expecting that though.Maybe anon 20 years ago but it's weird to condescend via a time machine.
>>519600196>Needless to say the last several generations have been disappointing.>last several generations.If you're going to condescend me "without a time machine", at least learn to read better first.
>>519598814> To get the same effect on reddit.> You need three fucking CRs. Yeah you can't actually do that. With that Markdown bullshit (not even Reddit specifically) it's paragraphs with a single empty line or nothing. Three breaks does the same as two breaks.And one does nothing which is just a baffling retarded decision that I hate. It's got something to do with some faggots deciding "on the internet you have infinite paper so white space is easier to read!", that was their literal justification, although I think it actually had something to do with shitty dweeb LA coders getting confused about transitional html.
>>519599501>Wasn't that the gimmick of Alien Isolation?you mean that the alien stopped caring about your flamethrower eventually? That's not AI, that's the game keeping a basic tally of the amount of times you used your flamethrower and at certain threshold apply a new AI pattern. It doesn't genuinely learn shit.
>>519600594Now you're relying on mind reading, man. Him saying he was expecting to see the tech by now isn't the same as expecting it to be implemented across the board. I have absolutely no idea why you decided to drop in on this conversation just to turn it into an argument, you haven't exactly added any insights that weren't already mentioned.
>>519599501Alien Isolation has 2 AIs at work for the Alien: One that directs it to the section you are, so that it's near, the other is it's own AI that makes it react to noises, line of sight, the direct events.What it learned was to pay less attention for the same tricks. That means if you throw a noisemaker 3 times to get rid of it it'll spend less and less time on it, eventually starting to ignore it entirely. If you use your flamethrower it first doesn't know what it is and will charge at you regardless until you've made it run. If you made it run multiple times already it'll retreat into the vents, waiting for you to step below one while it's drooling from there. If there was combat in an area it was lured to or caught some enemies it'll patrol the entire area far more aggressively for some time. How fast it reacts to anything suspicious depends on it's already active alert status, so if you've only been spotted for the first time it doesn't get it quite as fast as when there was combat already.It's also cheating a bit by only ever checking lockers and vents if you're inside them and not any other time - even when it can't possibly know you're in there without checking. The AI also doesn't run into dead ends where a door can be permanently sealed by cutting power to it unless it spots you and charges at you. Throw a noisemaker or flare in there and it'll ignore those. Some non-AI feature I liked was that it's triggered instantly if you step on it's tail. A fail design of the AI is that it'll insta-backstab you to death even while the AI is already retreating if it's close to you and you turn your back to it.
>>519601142I decided to drop in on this conversation, to point out that many tech-reliant systems like>>physics emulation and anatomy based wounding/material damage calculations.is, a design problem first and a tech problem second (if at all). It's not something that will inevitably be incorporated just because consumer hardware has passed a certain point of processing power. Looking back I can see how I ruined your discussion, but it wasn't my intention.
>>519578659There’s some indie game about you finding an abandoned arena shooter server that sort of reminds me of this story. Only there instead of "The shooter bots have reached an armistice", it’s the server is haunted by a spooky ghost wife and the husband is using it to bring her back from the dead which is significantly lamer.
What is even the point of other animals anymore? It should all just be humans.
>>519602642We need more funding to the catgirl initiative.
>>519601042>That's not AIEh, the term has a variety of meanings depending on context. Which I think is partly why half this thread is pretty confused.You're right it's not any kind of self-modifying modern AI, but it is a designed behaviour with an adaptive learning component, however limited. According to the established terminology we do call any kind of conditional behaviour in games AI, and it essentially is in the sense that it's a black box system to the player which is driving an apparent agent.Pretty important to remember that AI can be designed--even though the path modern research has taken is entirely towards evolutionary AIs to the extent that it's pretty much what "AI" has come to mean. Games might be one of the few places we'll continue to see the oldschool definition used.(and neither version is "true" AI yet anyway. people are still coining new terms for this shit)>>519602564Which was redundant and already covered by one of the posts you replied to in the first place, you gimboid
>>519578845Dolphins might have a more complex language than ours. since it's sintax is something we cannot fully comprehend
>>519578796bruh what please do some research
>>519578348>the AI goes john wick mode right back at you
>>5195787961) computatinally expensive2) experts in AI prefer working in academic world or for big companies like Google or Facebook that pay better than the game industry
>>519578845If another human-like species arose they would have to compete with us. Humans probably genocided all competitors. Or in the case of Neanderthals genetically assimilated their strengths
>>519578348Forza Motorsport 5's Drivatar system was the racing behavior of other live players crunched over da cloud and put into your game so I don't know if that counts. I don't remember what Forza 1's Drivatar system did.
>>519602836No, you just made a few baseless "x system in y game = no fun" conclusions. Example: having to drag yourself to a medic after getting shot in a leg is not an inherently bad outcome of the system if the rest of the game cohesively supports the possibility of these combat outcomes.
>>519603127We can just grow meat by itself now.
>>519578845germans try to communicate with the world somtimes, toohowever, they can only destroy, never build
>>519602642environmental regulation. Kill all the mosquito-eating animals and humans are going to have a real shitty time. Same idea with ticks. Fuck ticks.>find tick on body>not attached yet thank god>throw it in toilet>come back 30 min later>the fucker has been crawling around underwater the whole time
>>519603127Pure hedonism.Here's an actual example, though: bees.Pollination by anything else would be way too costly, as would be using only plants that don't require pollination.
>>519582363So is actual thought if you think about it.If we could perfectly replicate the electrical action of the brain's cells on a machine, a consciousness stored on it would be unable to tell the difference between being machine or human. A mind in any other brain is still a mind.
>>519604797How would you ever be able to tell if it's having a conscious experience that's equivalent to one humans have, though?
>>519582363Translating modern AI into if checks would be a ton of work.You'd be better off calling it a matrix multiplication instead.
>>519588895Kill yourself wojak poster
>>519584754Bullshit reddit. I've bean here for over a decade (lurked /b/ in 06), and we called Obama king nigger. 4chan, especially /v/ hated sjws as soon as they popped up. 4chan was always a contrarian libertarian board, and when the left went nuts and shifted far from center it made us look more right wing.
>>519604293You still need to take those cells from an animal in the first place though right?
>>519580971An scp explored this, black and white mi24s are spooky
>>519605834That animal can be human.
>>519582274Not really. Try making an AI that shits on players in any kind of strategic type of game, e.g. an RTS or Civ without cheats. It's only easy for simple games based on things like testing reflexes and aiming.
>>519578845Not really any other hominid with a complex language and built complex shit was killed by us. Some of the other species could have been more intelligent but early Homo Sapiens were ruthless, aggressive bastards and like OPs picture we had the ability to throw things. Other Hominids couldn't throw as well as us or at all so we throw stones, spears and wiped every other hominid species. Humans are fucking OP compared to other animals, we often attribute our brains to our success but the ability to sweat, throw shit, use tools and our thumbs put us miles ahead of other animals.
>>519606329I'm not eating burgers grown from bits of people, I'd rather go vegan if that was the only choice.
>>519581024properly formatting long posts isnt reddit, but using what is basically upvote and downvote is as reddit as it fucking getsGo off yourself nigger and go back.
>>519605009How can you tell if anyone other than yourself is having a conscious experience?You can't. You assume they do because you yourself do and they are similar, is a machine mind similar enough to make that same assumption?There's really no logical answer for now, everyone draws an arbitrary line between "probably conscious" and "probably not conscious" somewhere, but there's no real answer unless you turn to bullshit mysticism.
>>519580197>>519595319learn japanese and join the oldfags in futaba losers
>>519580723Shut up reddit
>>519580906this is as racist as saying all chinese sound like "ching chong ching ching chong." prove me wrong
>>519584754nice revisionism.Nigger was one of the most used words of the site long before office negro.
>>519578659Video games are fantastic and fun!
>>519578348lel game programmers can't even do basic pathfinding properly based from FSMs, you want them to program an actually working AI?
>>519607759but they do
>>519578845We're not the only ones. Niggers exist t->complexnvm
>>519607535>How can you tell if anyone other than yourself is having a conscious experience?I'm a human, so I have at least some basis for the belief that other humans have a conscious experience at least similar to my own, while I have literally no basis to think that a machine's consciousness is equivalent to human's.
>>519607759Chinese really is an awful sounding language though.
>>519608074Fucking why though?
>>519588263>Someone once told me that the large hardon collider is akin to cavemen smashing together clocks to figure out what they are made out of.>I punched him in the face and told him to leave the institute.
>>519604583tickless anon hee, weren't you afraid that it will attach when you picked it up? Honest question
>>519608074>can't even do basic pathfinding properly based from FSMsLooks like you tried to mash two sentences here
>>519578445>>519578659There's been a memory problem and the AI stopped working. It's a cool story but the AI didn't learn peace.
>>519581179I can fly a helicopter.About the living long enough part...
>>519586325damn i'm old
>>519602586Yeah and fuck all happens in that game too. Creepypasta games or whatever are always trash with no substance.
>>519583047that image is about as old as the very first version of reddit.back then there were other shitholes that got replaced by reddit like gaia or SA.
>>519603802damn he thirsty
>>519579574oh shut up, retards have been saying the same exact thing since 2007
>>519581638This. The AI did utilize the environment effectively and coordinated with allies. What more could I want but sophistication of those concepts? I don't expect devs to create sentient AI.
>>519608415Sure, but that's as arbitrary a line as any other. Other humans are somewhat different to you, but you still think they're conscious because they're the same species. What about other hominid species like Neanderthals, were they conscious?Great Apes like Chimpanzees?Other mammals like dogs and cats, these are all still regarded as conscious by many people?Reptiles?Insects?Bacteria?There's no logical place to put the line, it's just a guess. Also one could argue that a machine emulation of your mind is in fact more similar to you than any other human, and thus more likely to be conscious similarly to yourself.
>>519609543Meant for >>519583389
>>519585782>he doesn't call them green gaffe gators
>>519609543I think you guys got it wrong, its not that people dont realize thats really whats going on behind F.E.A.R. AI, its obvious if you think about it for a moment after all. Its that that is still the best example of AI in videogames, as basic as it is.
>>519605792>people try to pretend 4chan wasn't libertarian degenerates even former mods like modcat and snacks
>>519580103If you use the desktop version you can view images at full resolution.You can find the option at the bottom of the thread, bitch.
>>519583381>anthillsnigga the vietcong were building human-sized anthills with secret exits, traps, electricity, a kitchen, and a propaganda room
>>519602642I remember there was some documentary where they speculated about what would happen if humans suddenly disappeared, maybe they should make a reverse one about losing all the other animals.
>>519610330meant to reply to >>519582451
>>519604293yeah but it tastes like ass because there's no fat
>>519609976It's just the way that people denigrate FEARs AI while offering nothing else. I don't think that the AI was perfect but it worked great in the games. I want improvement from that point instead of focusing on 'realistic' graphics and animations.
>>519587117>corporations killed the internet>the government shat on it and set it on fireF
>>519580553>ECHOI was trying to remember the name of this, but all I remember was that it looked like one of those pristine stages in Warframe. I watched a video of a guy crouch sneak kill a clone, only to get crouch sneak killed a second after.
>>519607759You forgot "ding" "ping" "gao" "wai" "ming" and "dao"
>>519608463I'd rather listen to crows talking than chinese people
>>519583973This post is too good for this shit boar and ikely get lost, and I see only 1 (you) there. Can report same experience, pretty sure no one ever reads when I try to effort post but any shitty but short opinion expression rakes in more (you)s than I know what to do with.
>>519592872But there's no "m", anon.
>>519609568>Also one could argue that a machine emulation of your mind is in fact more similar to you than any other humanThis is the exact part I'm questioning. How would you, even in theory, be able to conclude that it's more or less similar to my experience? By tracking electrical impulses or observing other physically manifesting properties of the brain? I don't think that conscious experience is quite as simple, nor observable as electrical impulses travelling through a brain.
>>519593086>hey are definitely stronger than unot definitely no.proportionally, maybe.but i mean, imagine a fit adult man against a chimp, they just don't stand a chance.unless you're talking about gigantic gorillas or something.but that "chimps are 5 times stronger than men" is totally false.
>>519611356the chinese made kino flash movies?
>>519578845and yet we're destined to blow up our planet before we make it to the stars
ITT no one realizing even the most soulless AAA game has progressed its AI beyond behaviour trees
>>519598814Bullshit, I've seen plenty of post being called out as Reddit spacing for doingthisThis site is a shell of its former self, and that's alright anon. Most people have either moved on or chosen to stay in the other plethora of social platforms monitored and controlled by other corporate entities. It's not your 2000's internet anymore, so it makes sense that people want to gate-keep and delineate their own forms of online culture, vilifying any outsiders to the mix. It's just human nature, especially on 4chan, which prides itself on keeping "normies" away, especially if it'll lead to group acceptance.
>>519611981I refuse to believe yearly CoD installments use anything beyond rudimentary finite state machines for SP Ai.
>>519578348Ai war is an RTS like this, the AI just keeps ramping up until the game is no longer beatable
>>519612376Eh even just a few years after Halo, a large amount of the industry shifted to behavior trees. I wouldnt be surprised if cod did as well. But I wouldn't think they've all moved there let alone past it like >>519611981thinks
>>519578659>things that never happened
>>519612559To be fair it mostly just ramps up in sheer numbers of hullpoints and DPS on its ships, the size of waves ect.
>>519578845Imagine if we were the only planet with life and humans are the only animals that ever developed higher level thought and the entire universe exists for billions of years before slowly expanding apart into basically nothingness and we were the only intelligent lifeforms to ever experience it. Yep sounds batshit crazy to me too, obviously God made us and that's why we have language and can build things.
>>519580259>thats not ai learning its just ai learning
>>519581352It's just science, though. If you seriously think animals can't communicate with eachother then your fucking retarded
>>519578796Because that illusion of good AI goes hand in hand with level design and level design has been deteriorating at a steady pace.
>>519579690stop pretending to be oldfag lol
>>519579720AI is also just if else statements.
>>519613991Shit up, pipsqueak, before i punch your junk.
>>519584671the boomer, zoomer, existence of cringe/based, wojak's pollution, everything is the 95% retards who copy ever meme they seebut its no different from old either desu desu desu desu desu desu. once you get called nigger once on 4chan you start calling people nigger. 4chan is always a parrot site, just parrot different things now, and will parrot different things later.
>>519580372>tfw overleveled int
>>519584459it wasnt a big deal then people just had names but it wasnt for attention because nobody cared. when you tripfag now you do it for attention because you know its not normal and people dont like it
>>519580492they cant stand so they cant put anywhere near as much power into somthing.
Reminder that the top of the chain it's microscopic, the actual apex is a virus
>>519587379half life 2 metrocops had interesting strategy against player. understood flanking and cover fire based on freemans position. not exactly what op is talking about but i always thought it was cool
>>519584715theres snakes and shit on the ground bro, if you were on the floor you died, those who didnt stay on the floor survived.
>>519578845Its the year 2020 and humans still cant create something as complex as a spider web.Not at least alone
>>519578348killer instinct has a mode where the game will try to closely replicate how you play for your friends to fight you
>>519580550looks like they're laughing at a joke.
>>519612253Yeah, it turned into a meme thatThis was called reddit spacing because people were idiots. Then it turned into honestly this being called reddit spacing, even though this is just normal paragraph spacing on the internet. Reddit is the only weird place that eats your first CR
>>519612253Reddit is fucking awful though. I cant imagine posting there. I look at my local town reddit and it looks like hell.