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>disloyal, impulsive piece of shit who is responsible for every bad thing that happened in the show
>normies and redditards think he is literally saint because he "has le soft spot for kids" and blame Walt for everything
>>
>>167997937
>no bro you don't understand waltuh MANIPULATED him he a good boi who dindu nuffin getting jane back on cock etc
>>
>>167997937
There are people who think this?
I tried re-watching the show and I couldn't because literally everyone is a piece of garbage
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>>167997992
>getting jane back on cock
well, he DID do that too
>>
>>167998008
only worth it for Saul and Hank.
>>
>>167997937
Show would have been better if they killed him off in season 1
>>
>>167997937
Jesse is a fundamentally good person who acts rash and and has his mind clouded by drugs, thus being always perceived as bad by those around him.
Walter is a fundamentally bad person who is clear headed and has a reputable place in society, this has everyone perceive him as good and mild
It's the whole point of the show, and also the reason of Gus' fuckup, he bith understood too late Jesse was more trustworthy than Walter AND underestimated his moral compass
>>
>>167997937
Its a show about how hard it is to start a small business. Of course reddit relates to the character meant to represent the absolute bottom of the barrel scum you have to hire at the start and then get stuck with because he knows all your trade secrets
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>>167998110
Fundamentally good people don't do drugs
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>>167998110
>Walter is a fundamentally bad person... Because he just IS, ok??
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>>167998241
Sure they do, or can. That’s why there are fundamentals and then there are the details
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>>167997937
All meth dealers deserve the rope
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>>167998110
>and has a reputable place in society
???
Are you just repeating something you read on reddit?
>>
>>167998296
Just don't buy it
>>
>>167998322
Yeah Walt was a schoolteacher and a father who had a house and friends and such, even if he was an insecure basket case.
>>
>>167998110
>Jesse is a fundamentally good person
>sells and manufactures drugs
>preys on drug-addicts at therapy sessions
>swindles his own flesh and blood
jessefags everyone.
>>
>>167998280
There has never been a good methhead.
>>
>>167998323
I dont

Doesn't change the fact they are a blight
>>
>>167998110
Go back
>>
Man /tv/ is just controversial for the sake of it now. Any point Reddit holds, they must hold the opposite. Rent fucking free.
>>
>>167998440
Feel free to argue your points anytime.
>>
>>167998381
JFK
>>
>>167998482
>murdered by his own goons

There has never been a good politician, either.
>>
>>167998322
The guy is loved by the D.E.A. he's seen as a pussy sure and mocked by his students but he's always got support from his family and everyone he knows, he's considered enough of a friend by multimillionairs they offer to pay his medical bills
>>167998258
He is, had EVERY chance to get out and stop fucking up instead
>Couldn't swallow his pride and accept Gretchen and Elliot offers for two times, he instead decides to make drugs
>Couldn't accept to sell methylamine instead kills 12 guys in prison + Mike
>>167998373
He is good in spirit, but the situation he found himself in, had him go mad, every time he convinces himself he's bad, he can't go all in: even when preying on drug addicts he ends up just liking Andrea and protect her and Brock.
All he wanted to do was to cook and sell drugs to whoever wanted them, not to kill people and become Tuco like Walter was pushing him to
>>
>>167998373
He also wasted Badger's hard earned pseudo because the meth wasn't le pure enough and tossed it away despite his protests, then left him stranded in bumfuck nowhere.
>>
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>>167997937
The only wrong thing Walt did was not killing his ungrateful family and friends
Manufacturering and selling drugs, killing people and harming them, creating a meth empire etc=based
Being a hypocritical queer faggot small time dealer who sells shitty dope to feul his own addictions and ruins lives but feels guilty about it like a pussy and is constantly bitching and fucking with the operation, being a junkie, being a simp, being friends with Subhumans and caring about them, wasting 5 million dollars on homeless junkie faggots etc=gay and faggy
Of course plebbit is going to relate to this homo
>>
>>167998110
>fundamentally good person
He's a drug dealer. He's better than Walt but he was a shit person too
>>
>>167998558
>He is good in spirit
And you base this on what? Selectively weeding out his faults and only looking on the few good aspects?
>bro he thinks about the keeds
Didn't stop him from fucking up his little bro's life by fleecing his parents.
>>
>>167998626
I haven’t really gotten into breaking bad but from what ic and tell thats kinda the point, fuck by this logic skyler is the best person because her crimes are fucking minor compared to the rest of the cast, everyone is a piece of shit.
>>
>>167998110
finally a level-headed anon
>>
>>167998689
His bad aspects are bad as in "low quality" not bad as in "fraudolent", he's kind of like Jimmy McGill in this aspect
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>>167998558
Are you being obtuse about the fundamental core of walts character that is a good man turning bad due to extreme circumstances. Meanwhile Jesse started off as a scum bag and comfortably stayed there the whole series only to dip into loathsome at times.
>>
>>167998763
Are you? Walt refuses an easy way out after killing a man and understanding this was the path he was going in in episode 5
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>>167998742
Of course. Jesse's fuckups and shortcomings are just "low quality". He's a hecking gud boi deep down and so everything he does is excusable while everything Walt does is heinous and manipulative.
>>
>>167998855
Is it such a difficult concept to grasp, fucking shit up out of evil vs fucking up unintentionally or out of ignorance?
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>>167998602
You're so edgy anon
>>
>>167997937
Jesse is an illogical but moral person.
Walt is a logical but immoral person.
>>
>>167998950
Which parts were evil?
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>>167998811
He decided for once in his life to not take the easy way out. And all the consequences with it. He's in over his head and clear goes from good to bad but he does not start fundamentally bad and Jesse does not start fundamentally golf. But Walt actually has an arc Jesse is just Jesse from beginning to end and he stays continually scummy.
>>
>>167998963
What's moral about trying to get former drug-addicts hooked again?
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>>167998971
The part where Walter drinks wine, grins like a comic book villain and says he doesn't care about anything he just kills people because he wants to be a criminal druglord
>>
>>167998811
dubs of truth
>>
>>167997937
Yeah I hated Jesse more than anyone else in the show.
Skylar is 2nd most hated.
>>
>>167997937
I only watched the first three seasons. How does the show go after that? Whats the end moral?
>>
>>167999022
The end moral is "apply yourself".
>>
>>167999022
>Whats the end moral?
Crime never pays
>>
>>167998516
If they were his goons they wouldn’t have murdered him
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>>167998258
only beta males think walt was right. he was a LARPy nerd.
>>
>>167998997
Drugs aren't immoral, they don't violate the NAP.
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>>167999022
Ego is the root of all evil and suffering
>>
Seeing Hank smash his face in was the most satisfying moment of the show, and seeing him chained up was good too. Hated him nearly as much as Skylar.
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>>167999081
>>167999046
>>167999033
Yeah thats all gay, whats the real moral?
>>
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>>167999069
It wasn't a question of the drugs being moral/immoral, it was jesse's actions.
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>>167999157
bee yourself
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>>167998381
You don't know any methheads. Lol
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>>167999157
Women are scum
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>>167999162
I hate this grifter so much. Remember 5 - 10 years ago, people used to push him everywhere (when he was an anarchist). He used to tell people to abandon their families if they weren't anarchists, because they wanted to kill him.
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>>167999157
Older white men who efficiently run a business are evil and as a young person you have a better moral compass and need to sabotage them any chance you get
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>>167998450
He is arguing his point. /tv/ is contrarian
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>>167999281
I didn't see any arguments.
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>>167998440
Who is reddit?
>>
>>167999216
He also pushes leaving your family members if they are at all any sort of dysfunctional. People ain't perfect. Forgive and forget. But nah just fuck off and disappear from them. Obviously some situations are worse than others but damn.
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>>167998110
jesse is not a good person lol
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>>167999162
Jesse's actions in relation to drugs are not immoral. Buying or selling them.
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>>167999497
Nigger detected
>>
I think Jesse is a person that ended up on the wrong side of the law because of poor life choices and shitty parenting. He's a criminal sure, a murderer even for killing Gale. I however think intent, circumstance and current state of mind is important when judging someone's character. I would judge Jesse as someone who only killed to save a life, and who is unlikely to cause harm in the future. That is something most people would consider a "good" person.

I personally don't really believe in good and evil as anything more than a concept, or an opinion. I think "good" is just what a person considers to be morals close to their own, and "evil" are morals different from theirs. But morals are also just opinions, and not facts.

You can see Jesse as a good person for being protective of kids. You can see Jesse as a bad person for being a drugdealer. You can see Jesse as a good person for being young and naive and not realizing the what he was getting into would harm anyone. You can see Jesse as a bad person for being a murderer. You can see Jesse as a good person for killing a man to save his friend. You can see Jesse as a bad person for influencing his girlfriend to start doing drugs again and dying from an overdose. You can see Jesse as a good person for refusing to kill a child to avoid detection by authorities.

All in all it depends on your own morals whether Jesse is a good person. If you're like me then maybe you don't believe that good people exist in the world, as there also exists no evil. All that exists in the world are people considered good, or considered bad. All living things in this world do things one could consider good or bad, but they are inherently neither of these things.
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>>167999538
They don't violate the NAP.
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>>167999572
>selling naive people a harmful drug that they will get addicted to is not a violation of the NAP
>no I don't know what informed consent is
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>>167999296

There's no argument to be made, because /tv/ doesn't have one, nobody on 4chan does. This place got it's last orders at the bar with the advice dog meme, and then Reddit came along and it flipped it's shit so nothing /tv/ says has any fucking point outside of pulling a basedface at a Reddit opinion.

What the fuck do I even have to argue here anyway? The first line states Jesse is responsible for every bad thing happened in the show. How's that even debatable considering the show is about Walt taking action and then reaction to every little thing he does. Jesse isn't the protagonist, he's the Robin. Nobody thinks he's a saint or didn't do anything wrong, it's simply that of all the characters in Breaking Bad, Jesse is the one that can be argued deserves absolving and finding redemption by the end, but this board is too fucking stupid to understand that because it's a CRINGE OPINION FROM LEDDIT and they couldn't tell a character arc from their their own pathetic downfall in their own lives. His whole concept is finding forgiveness and dealing with what he did. It's the same retarded opinions of people who think Walt did nothing wrong and Skyler was the problem.

Edgy edgy edgy, get a clue lads. All you had to do was fucking ignore the place but you all chimped out because normies got their own 4chan. Well you shouldn't have broke rules 1&2 for fuck knows how many years, wore stupid Guy Fawkes masks in public and attracted the current influx of zoomer retards enticed by /pol/ from, you guessed it, Reddit.
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>>167999157
don't use nazis as business partners
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>>167999681
Who says they are naive?
It is up to them to be aware of what they are buying in a free market.
Is selling alcohol immoral if the person buying doesn't know what it is? Should bottle-os quiz every patron to ensure they have "informed consent" to what they are purchasing?
Please don't bother, your argument is ridiculous.
There are plenty of ways to argue drugs are immoral, that is not one of them lol.
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>>167999782
If you know something is harmful and sell it to someone who doesn't know its harmful without informing them of its dangers, that is a violation of the NAP
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>>167999815
Children know drugs are harmful before they learn what your dick is for
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>>167999782
>this nigga over here arguing as if he's a in a free-market environment
Should've stuck with the NAP-meme dummy.
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>>167999847
Weird way to justify selling drugs to kids but ok
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>>167999890
Show me when Jesse sold meth to kids
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>>167999815
No it isn't lol. It's up to the buyer to know what they are buying, the onus is entirely on them. The only reason the seller could be considered morally culpable is if the buyer is underage.

>>167999854
The choice to buy drugs is the free choice of the buyer.
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>>167999739
>noooo how can you have a different opinion than ME!?
Autism.
Incurable.

To think you use this many words to say so little is impressive.
None of the things you stated are facts. It's just your opinions.
Jesse DID fuck up and practically set events into motion that drives the whole show after season 1. Start arguing any moment. But spare us your autism.
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>>167999937
The choice to buy is there, but the informed buyer is absent.
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>>167999937
Under which age?
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>>167999973
Yeah I'ìm sure whoever buys meth though they were just buying curry and smoked it without knowing they were drugs
Honestly the most retarded shit I have ever read
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>>167999973
It is not the moral duty of the seller to ensure the buyer is informed of the product they are receiving.
The onus is on the buyer to inform themselves before they part with their money.

>>167999983
The legal age to buy said product.
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>>168000049
>It is not the moral duty of the seller to ensure the buyer is informed of the product they are receiving.
Yes it is. Or you're in violation of the NAP.
>>
should have stuck with the original plan of killing him off in season 2
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>>168000069
No it isn't.
A bottleshop is not morally accountable to question and quiz every patron that enters their store to ensure they are "informed" on the alcohol they are purchasing, never mind how on Earth you would quantify informed consent like that.
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>>168000176
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of libertarian values and free market ideals for you to hold this position.
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>>167998763
they had a way out in season 5. a clean, clear way out to sell that train liquid

walt was a retard over and over
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>>167999157
Don't get so greedy you forget to flush
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Certified list of BB universe good guys who did nothing wrong:
Hank
Marie
Steve
Gale
Andrea
Jane's dad
Chuck
Howard
Werner
Erin
Clifford
Rich
Dr. Cruz
Nacho's dad
Mr. Acker
Irene
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>>168000397
>Gale
He's a meth cook
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>>168000397
Marie confused minerals with rocks. Unforgivable.
>>
>>168000397
>Hank
Father/Son-relationship ruiner
Loose cannon/violator of private domiciles in which people may not be harassed - Bitch
>Marie
Cleptomanic
Manipulator
>>
>>168000218
>You have a fundamental misunderstanding of libertarian values and free market ideals for you to hold this position.
I feel the same way about you.
Your argument is a joke mate, I said it before.
There are no reasonable methods to ensure every single customer is properly informed on what they buying, nor could you possibly quantify a level of informed consent and draw a line between moral and immoral. Your moral compass is an impractical mess that is incompatible with society.

If you own a store that sells kitchenware, and I come in to buy a cutting knife, was it immoral for you to sell it to me?
>>
>>168000397
>Andrea
Has a nigglet
Is a woman
>>
>>168000575
>There are no reasonable methods to ensure every single customer is properly informed on what they buying
You already have lots of information available when buying simple items such as a food and textiles.
To think this is an impossible feat is your retardation showing itself.
>>
>>168000434
I don't necessarily agree with him, but Gale was a libertarian who believed in absolute personal freedom concerning drug use. And he wanted to provide drug users with a clean, professionally produced drug. He wasn't a bad guy.
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>>167999571
That's a good, interesting take.

Did the show have a larger theme or point, and if so what was it?
>>
I dunno how anyone hates Jesse, Walt and Jesse's dynamic is my favorite thing about breaking bad
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>>168000624
Yes, you retard, and it is up to the customer to ensure they read up and research the information they need to inform themselves. The onus is on the buyer, not the seller, to inform themselves about what they are buying.
The seller has no responsibility for the matter.
If you think the seller is responsible, how do you suggest a seller trying to be moral goes about ensuring their customers are informed before they sell the product? Should they have each customer complete an aptitude test every time they purchase something? Should they sit an exam or write an essay?
How do you quantify an informed state? At what level does it cross from immoral to moral? When they are 50% informed? 100% informed?
>>
>>168000658
>And he wanted to provide drug users with a clean, professionally produced drug.

The show's visit to a crackhouse exposed the dubiousness and willful blindness of such a stance. Gale's hands may have been fastidious, but they were not clean.
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>>167998110
its not that jesse is a good person its about that the viewer expects jesse to be more ruthless than walter is but he is actually much more sensitive.
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>>167998241
>hurr durr drugs are inherently evil
Lmao get a load of the fag with the closed-off early 90's brain. bet you were part of dare and everything you dumb bitch.
>>
>>168000624
>>168000919
You said it yourself, the information is available. Being available means it is able to be obtained and used by the public so they can inform themselves about the product. The onus is on the buyer.
If you want to go purchase drugs, it is up to you to research and sift through the available information regarding the effects, both positive and negative, before you go and purchase them.
If you go and purchase the drug without doing the proper research, that is on you. It is absolutely not the moral responsibility of the seller, nor does it violate the NAP because you chose, of your own free will, to purchase something without being informed.

Thanks for the conversation, I have to go now.
As I said before, there are plenty of arguments to make where selling/buying drugs are immoral, like virtue ethics for example, but libertarianism is not fucking one of them lol.
It shows a real lack of understanding of libertarianism - one of the most common positions of libertarianism is the legalisation of drugs.
>>
>>167997937
funny ting is that the writers actually intended to make walt a bad guy from the beginning. But as the show went on they couldn't commit to it because it would make walt too unrelatable and he was many's favourite character.

yet for some reason fags like vince still think things transpired how they originally intended when you see them talk about the show in interviews
>>
>>168002040
Yeah I always got the impression that they wrote Walt as if he had actually been doing way more evil shit than he really did.
Like they never comitted to making him genuinely psychopathic to the degree where people's reactions to him felt more believable.
Like the """worst""" thing he does is poison a kid with a non-lethal dose of poison, and he's fine afterwards.
Like.... really?
I feel like if the writers had bigger balls they'd have had Walt just straight-up kill Brock instead.
Watching Death Note at the same time as BB highlights just how badly the writers of BB failed at making the protaganist believably psychotic and ruthless. I was disappointed that we didn't get more of Walt being on top after taking down Gus, and fully delving into his status as the top-dog in the meth game. Like there's barely any time where he's actually the kingpin, before he bitches out and tries to quit.
I wanted to see whole SEASONS worth of him ruling his meth empire. The show needed that to make his downfall feel more impactful.
>>
>>168002145
>Like the """worst""" thing he does is poison a kid with a non-lethal dose of poison, and he's fine afterwards.
https://youtu.be/NYcOl33-mI0
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>>168000397
Pretty much the only people i felt bad about were Nacho's dad and Jane's dad
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>>168002322
I wanted more of this type of thing - Walt ruling his empire as a cold, ruthless kingpin.
We only got a couple of scenes of that type of thing, sadly.
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>>167998984
Based
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>>167999019
Also based
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>>168001752
Wrong
>>
Do Waltfags not realize that Walt is the absolute epitome of the reddit personality type? Smug, narcissistic egomaniac who is simultaneously bitter, resentful, and insecure. Walt is the type of person who will be completely cold and ruthless when he has the upper hand and cowardly and deferential when he is confronted outside of his sphere of power.

He is literally the personality equivalent of a Twitter they/them journalist who would have no qualms ruining someone's life over a racist post from a decade ago but would also cry and beg for sympathy if they themselves were doxxed or genuinely threatened.
>>
>>167998960
And you’re a faggot
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>>168002696
Your point being....?
What, you think the show would have been better if Walt was a fearless uber-chad that was never scared or weak? That's boring. Go watch fucking faggot anime if that's the type of character you prefer. Walt behaved like a fairly realistic human being, unlike a lot of other characters in Breaking Bad.
>>
>>168002696
Literally me
>>
>>168002800
No, Walt being a ruthless killer when the odds are in his favor and a sniveling coward when they aren't is realistic and it still makes him a compelling character. But it SHOULD make him compelling in a "love to hate him" sort of way. Seeing anons ITT calling him based or admiring his character and identifying with him is pretty strange because Walt is basically the meth kingpin version of Taylor Lorenz.
>>
>>168002969
Walt was genuinely brilliant at getting out of tough situations through sheer cunning and improvisation, which is fun to watch, and worthy of admiration.
I agree that he isn't "based", but he does have traits that people can praise.
>>
>>168003105
I agree Walt's intelligence and strategic cunning make him a very entertaining character. But I also think it's almost impossible not to hate him when you see him crying and sniveling at Gus's feet when he thinks Gus is going to have him killed and then like one season later coldly ordering the execution of like 10 guys while acting like he's some hotshot drug kingpin badass. A narcissistic sociopath who is simultaneously an abject physical coward should be an easy personality type to hate and a tough one to identify with.
>>
>>168002696
This. Nothing worse than slimy pieces of shit
>>
>>167997937
Jesse was originally intended to just be some junkie loser Walt was forced to team up with, that got killed off early in the series. Executives liked his character so much, they kept him alive for the rest of the series. By Season 3, he's completely unnecessary and only kept around for plot contrivance.
>>
>>168003447
Jesse should have left the show after Jane's death, like he either kills himself/dies of heroin too, or just disappears with the rehab thing. His role in the story felt natural and believable for the first two seasons, but as soon as Gus shows up, he feels so ridiculously out of place. Him being Gus and Mike's apprentice in season 4 is the cringiest, lamest shit ever, and one of the many reasons why that season sucks.
>>
I wish they killed off Jesse early like originally planned.

One reason I liked BCS better was they killed off or jailed the annoying characters.
>>
>>167997937
Nobody thinks he’s a saint. He’s obviously a shitty person and makes loads of bad choices. The reason people feel bad for him is because he’s stupid and naive. Walt absolutely knew what he was doing, and he actively tried to manipulate Jesse and ruin his life. Jesse’s life would’ve already gone to shit without Walt, but he wouldn’t have become a slave or had to dirty his hands as much as he did. Walt came in and MADE everything his fault.
>>
>>168003609
Chuck was the best written and most interesting character in the series, though, and his death removed the last ounce of unique identity from BCS. Now it's just discount BB filled to the brim with fan-service.
>>
>>168003810
Jesse wouldn't have become a slave if he hadn't have become a pathetic rat in season 5b. No one forced him to be the DEA's bitch.
>>
>>168003818
Yes and he was placed long enough to be roughly 3-3.5 seasons where he could contribute his best before he overstays his welcome like a lot of BB characters.
>>
>>168003994
I definitely agree. I have the rather unpopular opinion that BCS should have ended in season 3, since the Jimmy/Chuck storyline was the heart and soul of the series. Everything after that has felt like "Breaking Bad 2.0", which is what I DIDN'T want.
>>
>>167997937
He's not responsible for Walt getting with Skyler
>>
>>168000397
>Andrea
>Jane's dad
>Chuck
>Werner
>Mr Acker
Sure they aren't bad people but they all did the wrong thing and screwed over themselves and/or others
>>
>>168000919
>>168001752
You seem to be confused.
In one sentence you're making a mountain out of a molehill in insisting on the buyer being impossible to sufficiently inform on the purchase from a sellers perspective.
And in another you insist on the buyer putting in the required research.

How do you suppose it's possible to do research on a topic if the seller is not required to supply the information needed?
>I have to go
Of course, just like I couldn't be bothered to hold your focus on the topic.
>>
>>167997937
honestly the most annoying character in TV history. I will never understand why Breaking Bad was so acclaimed when one of the main characters feels like a boardroom of 50 years olds tried to write what they imagine a 'hip young drifter' is like
>>
>>167998065
Forgetting someone?
>>
>>167998117
Well they don’t make it look very hard, walt becomes the king of meth within a year
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>>168001433
Way to prove his point
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>>167997937
The worst character in the entire show. He has no charm, there is nothing interesting about him, he never gets better. He exists purely as a plot device.
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>>167997937
He is a drug dealer, anyone who thinks he is a good guy is delusional
>>
>>168007821
>but bro he's like sorry about it and shit tries to give money away for free bro he's so selfless and caring yo
>>
>>167998110
>It's the whole point of the show
You're a retard. The show is a cartoon meant to entertain and it was written season to season. It's not meant to be deep.
>>
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>>167998110
>>
>>168006683
That nigga dindu nuffin
Unironically tho
>>
>>167998241
Nigger gus with nigger ideas.
He just saw nigger druggies and assumed all druggies are like them
>>
>>167998100
>Show would have been better if they killed him off in season 1
That was the original intention hence why Jessie sucked after s1
>>
>>167997937
What never made sense to me is how jessie reacted over jane.

They dated for like what 1-3 months lol? She OD's and he spirals into a heroine junkie over a chick he dated for a couple weeks?
>>
>>168009104
Dude I'd reace much worse after only 3 days of dating Kristen Ritter
>>
>>167998602
He really should have killed his family and friends tho.
He could have wiped it clean, and started over. He could have started a new family as a billionaire. Could have even gone after his science friend with good lawyers. He thought small
>>
>>167998566
I honestly don't understand this, why didn't he just give the "le not pure enough" batch to badger to do whatever with and just try again anyways? What prupose was there to just throw it all away in the fucking desert?
>>
>>167998558
>The guy is loved by the D.E.A.
No they fucking don't the DEA just respects Hank so much that some of that respect rubs off on everyone in his immediate family.
>>
>>167999069
Nice dodge, faggot.
>>
>>167997937
Facts. Both of them were pieces of shit in their own way
>>
>>167997937
>dude it's so crazy he never took acting classes
>literally incapable of playing as anything other than jesse
>has to sell liquor with his surrogate daddy actor because everyone got bored of seeing the same character in shitty movies and shows



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