i want to move to the us, i live in italy, im 22, getting a green card is almost impossible.-i have subscribed to the green card lottery-i have a skilled job that is in high demand (at least in italy) but i've been doing it just 9 months-i have no relatives in the usi was thinking of sending a job application to some companies in my field hoping that the job is in demand there too and they're willing to sponsor me, otherwise i could try to come to the us in person and find a job but i doubt itd work, i dont think id get sponsored by randomly going there but idk, more likely to get an illegal job.or i could marry an american but its not like im going there for 2 weeks and marrying someone.otherwise there are some job agencies that organize work abroad, idk how it works tho.
>>2574602Italybro why would you leave our beautiful country for that shithole?
>>2574602it's not any better here. stay in your homeland, don't be another parasite sucked into the cultural garbage disposal that is the USA
>>2574602whats your question?
>>2574613because the us is better -geography-job opportunities-taxes-culture (outdoors, hunting, freedom, etc in rural parts, i know there are leftists too, independence)-low population density-better laws-less bureuracyand it just feels like it has a different soul than italy>beautiful countryyes if youre a tourist going to specific places, otherwise the fact that there are old building in the cities or good seaside wont do you any good
>>2574622how can i manage to live in the usa
>>2574623>culture>job opportunities>better laws>and it just feels like it has a different soul than italy>good seaside wont do you any goodAnon are you for real...Italybro you are brainwashed by that shithole. I can't believe you are actually saying all of these. I can't believe.
>>2574627its true, americans aways shit on the us but in reality its the best country in the world, in fact if you looked online theres videos of italians that live there and they all have only good things to say, the ones that complain have never experienced how italy is, i mean its not thst bad and its still 1st world but the us is way better
OP, I was literally in your shoes over 10 years ago. I am from Norway and ended up working for big tech on a whim. The US is absolutely unmatched for class mobility. The easy access to great beaches and a variety of nature is also a huge plus to me. Don't listen to the losers on here, it's the best possible choice for you if you are willing to put in the work.
>>2574602One problem you'll face as an european is that america has much less paid time off days than europe. In italy you can get like 5 weeks easily while in the usa is only 3 and in some cases 4 weeks after working in the same company for years.
>>2574653not a big deal to me, definetley wouldnt renounce against moving just bc of muh paid time off
>>2574655For what it's worth, this is getting better. More and more companies are offering more time off. Actually some are even forcing people to take time off, the company i work for makes us. Apparently they have realized its better fore employees to take off because they suffer burn out and produce less without it. Go figure.
>>2574636>anon trust me its the best place to make more slave dollarspoor people are patheticuse the fucking internet and sell nonsense to retards from somewhere thats not a shithole. retard. you dont have to be anywhere if ure not an npc turd
>>2574623>less bureuracynot a burger but i dont think you know what the US govt is like
>>2574672you dont know italy
>>2574661Dunno what your problem is with what I said. Perhaps use your big boy words to express an argument instead of revealing how much of a bitter loser you are.OP take note, people like these do not wish for you to succeed.
>>2574602Your best bet is to become rich in Italy and buy your way in.>>2574623>the us has better job opportunitiesYou are already thinking about it wrong. H1B and illegal immigrants have shit jobs in this country and they are not rich.They are in the 'working poor' class and believe me, being apart of the working poor class is way better in Europe than it is in America.You need to go big or go home.If you can't start an 7 figure side hustle in Europe where health care is fucking free and you have shit tons of time off then you're not going to make it in anywhere.America is all about hustle culture, rise and grind bullshit now.
>>2574717>shit tons of time off then you're not going to make it in anywhere thats a meme people have on the internet anyway if i had a green card id join the muhreens
>>2574602Easiest way in is to get into a PhD program
>>2574723>muhreensIf you are that risk tolerant, why don't you just come here illegally?
>>2574623>-geographyThis is one of the strong points of the US, but Italy also is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. The architecture is also mostly beautiful in Italy too but in the US it is the most soul-crushing in the world unless you are in like Manhattan or San Francisco.>-job opportunitiesThis is basically the only second strong part of the US. If you can land a remote job and live somewhere else then by all means, but it's not worth living in the US, it is a miserable place. Also that high salary will be gobbled away by insane cost of living.>-culture (outdoors, hunting, freedom, etc in rural parts, i know there are leftists too, independence)The US probably has the most soul crushing culture in the world. As an Italian you can't understand how neurotic and dystopian the culture is here. Have you ever wondered why Italians are good at flirting but Americans aren't? It's because there is an extreme social stigma even to talking to women in public in the US, flirting with an American girl in public is seen as almost as bad as whipping your cock out, I'm not joking.>-low population densityIf you want this go to some beautiful small town in Italy. Better food and people, much prettier architecture, much cheaper, etc. Small town America is not like Kansas in the Wizard of Oz, it's basically just empty towns with McDonald's Walmart, junkie fent addicts, and fat people. There are no pretty women at all in these areas, you don't understand. Imagine English genetics + obesity and you'll get an idea.>-better lawsIn the US you can't even drink a beer in public, lmao. Also the laws in Italy ensure that the food is not the poison that it is in the US. I guess if you want to shoot guns it's ok for that.>-less bureuracyTOPKEK. The level of micromanaging of life by unbearable fat women in the US is insane. Italians cheat on taxes and shit all the time if you try this in the US they will kill your family.
Every time you say something positive about America or its people, these fag come crawling out of the woodwork to seethe
>>2574741It's this post again lmfao. Dude has the biggest America hate boner on this board.We already know you were bullied bro, no need to lash out with a doompost.
>>2574742It's just one or two extreme losers. One of them is some absolute non-white faggot in Argentina. He thinks no one can see through his agenda.
>>2574745It's not even just this board though. It's basically this whole site. Although, it seems to have died down a little in recent times.
America is great. It's just seething poors and American leftists who have never even left that country that say otherwise.
>>2574717Is it even legal to work a 2nd job in Italy? That's why the US innovates things and Italy doesn't. The place has crab-in-bucket mentality, if you work harder or figure out a smarter way to do things than someone else, people get mad. They don't even have Uber in Italy because the taxi drivers get mad that someone will outcompete them and go on chimpouts over it.
>>2574728because i got a job in the top 20% of salaries as my starter job and dont want to leave it even tho i dont even like it, im pondering my life and wheter to stay at this job and career for some years to make bank and try to move to the us through a visa, or follow my dream and try to join the army even if the italian army has alot of negatives to it, i also applied to the ukrainian army, my dream would be to live in the us which i deem the best country in the world, and join the marines, but i need a green card for that. so if i came illegally i wouldnt be able to join but only do tradie or wagie jobs illegally, and risk getting banned from ever re entering the us. so before i want to try the other options
>>2574749No shit I'm the same fucking guy retard. I thought that was obvious enough. Just like how obvious it is you're the butthurt non-white Argie that had to move countries just to literally have sex because you couldn't pull at home. Your loser stench is so obvious I almost immediately knew it was you.
>>2574736>that high salary will be gobbled away by insane cost of living.lol i make 1700 euros a month x14 payments a year so 2000 on average and thats barely enough to survive where i live, and thats already considered high, most people make less and cant afford shit and have to perma live with parents>you can't even drink a beer in public???>The level of micromanaging of life explain>Italians cheat on taxes and shit all the time if you try this in the US they will kill your family.dude in italy you pay 40% taxes min if youre a poorfag and 50+% if you make a barely decent wage, plus 22% vat, and wages are low so if you go live alone, which most dont do until theyre 30, you have almost no disposable income and if you go out the weekends youve bruned through it already.for the bureucracy you dont know how much paperwork and wait time and fees and limitations on what you can do there are to do anything, from simpler shit like driving license for car or bike to opening a small businessalso the culture of the people in italy is to get muh safe job and stay there forever, understandable given the situation but i dont appreciate it, plus italians are almost all urbanites and i dont like that much, but its not that big a deal
>>2574758Why not just join the Italian reserves? I mean that. Giving up your career and moving continents to join the military seems kinda silly.
>>2574763It's not if he can swing a security clearance out of it.
>>2574763they dont exist as they do in the us, theres only reserves of retired officers to my knowldedge, and anyway nothing like the us where you can do the army part time.i want to go to the us not only to join the marines but in general i want to live there, and i dont even like my job i do just because i have to work anyway so if i leave this ill just do another job that pays like shit and work all the same, ive been retarded in the past not to direct my life in a better direction career wise but i wasnt even thinking about it, so for now i have to stay here, usually you make 1100 to 1400, my salary is 1700 and its a stater salary that can go up to 2000+ with experience, most people in italy will never make even 1900 a month in their entire life to give you an idea, i just got a good opportunity and i took it, but i dont want to do a job i dont care about for all my life and then regret not doing what i liked
>>2574762>>you can't even drink a beer in publicThat one is actually true. Where I live in the US you can get arrested just for having a beer at the beach. It's not the end of the world but it is stupid and soul crushing when you see europeans enjoying themselves freely doing something that isn't harming anyone. Look on wikipedia about who the puritans were and what they believed. Their history still heavily influences American culture today. Italy IS one of the least business friendly countries in europe though. That is 100% correct. And their justice system is arbitrary and backwards. There's a reason most multinationals don't put their european HQ there. European policies like VAT also discourage you from being a consoomer but in the US its heavily encouraged by both the culture and the tax code to buy stupid shit. >>2574765Try to get into the US on any kind of permanent employment visa then join the military. Italians are eligible for the Diversity Visa lottery and have pretty good odds since not a lot apply, you should apply for it every year.
>>2574613>>2574620>>2574717> America is a third world country in a gucci belt because I can't be a leech on society!1!!!!!!!1!You're a dumbass who didn't put any effort into becoming better and now you're an adult with no skills, go figure your life sucks
>>2574602>was thinking of sending a job application to some companies in my field hoping that the job is in demand there too and they're willing to sponsor meI used to do hiring for a fortune 500, this is exactly what you should do. It's just that easy, and usually tech companies will sponsor you
>>2574800I am actually a software engineer and that 200k salary only comes with 2 weeks of PTO and 60-80hr work weeks, and shit healthcare.Italians get paid less because they work less.
>>2574724This.Get your foot in for whatever you can, and a PhD in anything is a resume builder or you can just sign up and skip out like so many others do and just be an illegal. Nobody here cares, trust me on that.
>>2574627>cultureNote he elaborated on what he meant by culture and it wasn't food and classical music and drinking wine at sidewalk cafes while looking at 500yo architecture.
>>2574812that because your resume suck/you are a junior :^)>t. wagecuck coasting 35hrs/week making $350k
Bro, why would you want to move to Muttmerica?
>>2574800Seattle is crazy expensive tho. A mediocre home is $900k. Decent one bedroom apartment is $2900/mo
>>2574613>>2574620don’t get the>usa is a third world shithole meme you always see here. america has unrivaled geography/climate diversity, incredible work opportunities, and almost everything works better and more efficiently than the rest of the world
It is best to save up money in the USA then go back when you can outright pay off a home in Italy.
>>2574870it costs one thousand dollars a month for a studio apartment in the subthousandperson town in the flyover state i grew up inthe most i made with a month of full-time employment was $1800everything is far away, you have to use a caryou are legally required to have insurance for the caryou have to have health insuranceif you don't have a degree you are worth literally nothing and a degree is two hundred thousand dollars of debteverywhere that's good is on the coasts. don't say "unrivaled geography/climate diversity," because all of the places that are not the coasts suck with low wages and high costs of livingthe entire center of the country is a memestop shilling it
>>2574602Paint your face brown, go to Mexico and cross the border illegally, you get a bunch of free shit this way, to boot
Best City if you move and can afford it.
>>2574623Anon, I'm also 22 and am leaving the US despite agreeing with and enjoying many of these things (besides less bureaucracy, it is NOT better)The fact is that all of these come with a tradeoff.> geography and low population densityAlmost impossible to travel in the US on a reasonable budget compared to any other continent>job opportunities Jobs pay more here because it costs money to work - you pay hours of your time every day and thousands every year to commute many miles to almost any job. Also, they pay more becayse things in the US, even other than housing and healthcare, cost monumentally more than in Europe or Asia>taxesAs a well-off young male you will see ZERO result from the 30% of your income that goes into taxes somehow, except roads. No public safety, no public transit, no public healthcare, no public university, so this is more ideological (do I want private or public services) than practical>cultureThere are many, many unlikeable cultures in America, friend...>better lawsPretty broad but a few are terrible: borderless taxation means if you're a US citizen you still pay taxes if you live overseas you have no protection from warantless search anymore drug laws are very, very strict and retarded in some places the US has nearly the highest amount of regulation around housing causing some of the highest housing prices in the world (similar to EU but still) paternity tests will not absolve you of child support, you can get removed from the labor force even if a rape charge is falseLastly, unless you plan to exercise or need these freedoms like going outdoors, hunting, owning a gun, starting a business, speaking very freely, etc, then you are larping and it won't be worth your time to go to the US. If you are fine with the drawbacks and do plan to the utmost to engage in activities you only can in the US, then endeavor to move there and try it out. If not, figure yourself out before assuming that moving will fix your life.
>>2574802i dont work in tech, im a technician on drilling machinesatm I'm a novice so I cant do troubleshooting independently, but I can replace spare parts or do periodic maintenance which is simpler>>2574813PhD is not something you just say it takes tons of work just for the hope of a Visa in 8 years >illegaldude what do you mean nobody cares?incant have documents, cant have a car, cant buy a house, can't have a bank account, cant hoin the army/marines, if I'm busted I'm banned from entering the us for like 10 years iirc
>>2574863just read my posts dude>>2574870it's because some people have only lived there and have no understanding of how different it is elsewhere plus they have a whiny agenda against some stuff in the us that is politically related like muh rent
I get the sentiment bro and I think it is worth a try for you but you’re gonna be in for a rude awakening. I actually experienced the reverse of this as a muttimerican. I romanticized europe for a very long time and finally got the chance to go for 6 weeks. Spent half in France half in northern Italy. I firmly believe that europe has reached the height of “living”. Your buildings, towns, cities are exceptionally beautiful, historical, and human friendly. I understand why Walt Disney modeled his parks after it. We do not have anything like that in the US. Your women are on average more attractive. We have good stock here too but a ton of fatfucks with no class. But after a few weeks I started to realize how American I was. Things are so slow in Europe. It’s like an open air museum. If you have any ambition then you will feel trapped there. And that is my first point why it makes sense for you to move to the US. The second is that you have no true wilderness. This may not be important to a lot of people but it is to me. I don’t want to see gondolas and small towns everywhere all the time. So America is great for money/ambition and wilderness. We don’t have “culture”. Doesn’t mean there aren’t good people but there isn’t charm to how people live here generally.
>>2575069So if you are an ambitious person America is hard to beat. There really is no glass ceiling here.On the other hand if you are average then it’s a nightmare. I don’t understand why an average person is here honestly. We do not have the safety nets you guys have in Europe. Anyways I think you have valid reasons to give it a shot. You will miss your culture though because there is a charm to Italian life albeit it is slow and is restricted if you are young and bright. As someone who has lived across the country I think west coast is generally the best. California will give you access to best geography and weather while slowing you to find a job. From there you can explore the mountain states. Midwest and south are shitholes. East coast is meh compared to west coast.
>>2574724Yes go $100,000 into debt.
>>2574602are you a hot chick? i'll marry you if you are.i'm guessing you're a dude though. maybe we can work out a deal where you introduce me to one of your female cousins and i'll introduce you to one of mine.
>>2575075why are they shitholes?btw in Italy there are no safety nets basically, just unemployment money and pensions but pensions are a pyramid scheme scam dependent on demographics and it would be better to have 30% more of my monthly salary and do whatever I want with it
>>2575069>wildernessexactly everywhere is antrhopized, even in the middle of the laps you're always 1km away from some town anyway I get what you say, I've never been there so until then I cant know for sure but still my decision has to be made on the info i have beforehand>give it a shotit's not like it depends on my choice, otherwise I'd be already there, getting the documents is hard as fuck
>>2575075>So if you are an ambitious person America is hard to beatlike some else said earlier the class mobility on the US is one of the best in the world, if you're willing to put in the work. I hate the hustle culture but I can't think of any other country where you can move "up" as quickly as you can in the US
>>2575083Just trust me on this. Also if you haven’t noticed our borders are wide open. Just walk in through Mexico.>>2575099I think the best path is you make it in the US and then go take your money to places that have better living styles. Remote work is making this more feasible.
>>257498923 year old here, mostly in the same situation but I bought a house last year at 3.5% interest so I'm going to be saving up cash while fixing it up to sell for more later. My hope is to sell it in 3-5 years and take $150kish to buy a house wherever I want to move to. I'm currently learning Japanese at my local community college(I work full time as an electrician, I just wanted to be in a classroom to practice speaking while I shitpost on /djt/), but I want to learn Spanish once I'm confident and maybe a fourth language, probably something from Eastern Europe or another SEA country. I don't think I'll move to Japan, but it's a fun goal to work towards and I think any skills I pick up along the way will come in useful anywhere I go.
>>2575149I'm the dude you replied to, also learning Japanese while working on hard skills (in tech/remote tho so I'm already in Japan). 空き家が大安いThis is a weird time in life since we're capable of doing shit but don't really know what we want yet, so best bet is to maintain flexible lifestyles while saving as much as possible. Full-on moving to another country while at this stage in life is investing a lot more than one should invest, imo
>>2575078Are you stupid? PhD students get a stipend.
>>2574736>It's because there is an extreme social stigma even to talking to women in public in the US, flirting with an American girl in public is seen as almost as bad as whipping your cock out, I'm not joking.This is all in their heads, though, and won't apply to a decent-looking laid-back Italian. Unless you're on a college campus or something there's almost no risk of blowback for violating any of the absurd feminist social expectations. Steal a soicuck's girlfriend if you want, he won't do shit.
>>2575211Is that shit actually true?Like normally you’d either talk to shirk that’s already in your social group (easy mode) or just go to a girl and talk, better if in a social context like a place where people go out to drink at night compared to randomly on the street or the metro, but I mean it’s not stigmatized, ofc ppl will talk about it and huh you know x guy approached y girl and gossip but it’s not like you’re a molester, if you’re awake as you’ll be laughed at behind your back by said girls and their friends for being an autist but that’s it
>>2575603Awkward>>2574736Anyway this stuff about girls sounds like cope
>>2574736>The architecture is also mostly beautiful in Italy too but in the US it is the most soul-crushing in the world unless you are in like Manhattan or San Francisco.lol Manhattan and SF are soul crushing compared to New England small towns (the ones that are still all white at least)nothing beats old colonial homes, its peak American architecture
>>2575625Virginia is nice for this reason, lots of colonial style houses
>>2574602>or i could marry an american but its not like im going there for 2 weeks and marrying someoneYou could easily find a fat american heifer-woman who idolizes marrying a suave Italian, especially if you have money (or a lucrative career path) and cooks for her.
literally just left. so odd seing south american migrants travel thousands of miles just to be homeless in front of trump tower and falling asleep in a folding chair looking at billions of dollars of realestate welcome to debt based economies
>>2574636>class mobility??????the gini-coefficient is fucking worse than thailand. i couldn't even get a job after i graduated and they tightened the labor market recently to 'fight inflation' after printing trillions of dollars.the government debt is completely insane and approaching 200% to gdp in our lifetime. if anything America IS OVER and this process can only really be sped up. creative destruction
>>2574800>place that houses world's largest tech companies has bigger tech salaries than the one that doesn'tWoah.
>>2576168That's better than the Wastach Front, which also hosts major tech companies
>>2576147gini coefficient has nothing to do with mobility at all.
>>2576253it means more people work harder to pay for less things, including investments
>>2574602I'd say look for a job. What kind of work do you do I might be able to point places to look if it's tech.
>>2576532It doesn't mean that at all.
>>2576833i could literally pull up papers that say a higher gini-coefficient is strongly correlated with lower class mobility
>>2574613>America is a 3rd world shithole!Ever been to Naples??? Jesus Christ the whole south of Italy explained to me why I hate Italians in my own country and why I always though they were stupid. When I was traveling the north and central areas I just thought I had a bad stereotype in my head and that Italy was the low key home of the #masterrace. Nope. South of Rome and you’re dealing with inbred Greco-Arab cunts.
>>2574602Best of luck to you OP. Everyone deserves to travel and live somewhere else. Each play you live in gives you a idea of what you want out of life and what values you are willing to truly live by. Don’t rot in your home country. You have the right attitude.
>>2574602We have too many Shitalians here, anon. In all honesty, look into Slovenia or Croatia, instead.
>>2574602Learn some Spanish, fly to Mexico, and then walk across the border into California. Claim to be a refugee from south america and they'll give you an apartment and sign you up for unemployment welfare indefinitely.
>>2574653European employment operates under a very class-oriented assumption, in that "you are Working Class and will always be, and therefore should be comfortable and happy in the first job you ever had". So you get that situation where some minimum wage starter job pays the equivalent of $20 an hour and has 5 weeks holiday, but the catch is you will NEVER get a raise or promotion, so you'll be stuck at that level for the next 40 years until you retire. The US doesn't really have such a rigid class system and so our employment works more on the assumption that you can move up the ladder as long as you're willing to put in the grind, so as long as you work smart you can end up with a net worth north of a million dollars by the time you're 45. I think the issue is so many young people, especially now, are so dangerously impatient that if they haven't got enough money to afford a Ferrari in cash by the time they're 25 they want to burn society down.
>>2576931>are so dangerously impatient that if they haven't got enough money to afford a Ferrari in cash by the time they're 25 they want to burn society down.It's not impatience, it's verifiably worse outcomes for the same age group as compared to 50 years ago. This country is squeezing the young dry
>>2574736>most soul-crushing in the world unless you are in like Manhattan or San Francisco.What the hell are you smoking? SF is 3rd World tier, as is Manhattan. Are you some trust fund baby who bounces around the luxury hotels or something?
>>2574762>???Depends on the state and location. We have "Drunk in Public" laws that you can't violate. >The level of micromanaging of life Entirely dependent on your circumstances, as is true for nearly any 1st World country.
>>2576931>starter job pays the equivalent of $20fuck you talking about, i make 16 euros an hour pre tax and im already in the top 10% of earners
>>2574602As a fellow Euro (Poland) I understand you. I've loved the US ever since I saw it with my own eyes. Not all states are the same. I don't like the north. Florida is fantastic. In fact I am in Florida right now. But I have to say... the US is SO EXPENSIVE. It blows my mind. I understand why so many people are homeless here. It's mind boggling.I may live here one day, but first I will earn the big bucks while living somewhere else.P.S. I also understand why people on this site dislike, ekhm... ethnic basketball enjoyers, let's call them. Nobody gave me any trouble except for those.
>>2576868Correlation isn't causation.There are many factors and if you're only looking at the gini coefficient you are definitely midwit at best, don't understand the issue at all (or how to tell a good paper from a bad one or even what the good ones are actually saying as opposed to what the clickbait bloggers explain for you)
>>2576931>European employment operates under a very class-oriented assumption, in that "you are Working Class and will always be, and therefore should be comfortable and happy in the first job you ever had".If you are going to use terms like "European employment" you better make sure what you're saying applies to all of Europe or at least all countries in the EU. That's hardly possible though, so at least say which part of Europe you're referring to.
>>2577147You’re a Pole so of course everything seems expensive. Prices are similar, if not a little cheaper than Northern/Western Europe.
>>2577320US has good social mobility regardless of its gini coefficient. That's still the argument and you haven't refuted it. No goalposts have moved.
>>2577296You are jumping to conclusions based on your idea of what being a Pole means. I'm well traveled and financially secure in the western sense. For a traveler in 2023, US is much more pricy than western Europe.
>>2577338In my own experience, Western/Northern Europe is way more expensive than in an important North American city, for about the same quality. Quality went downhill in Europe, that’s for sure, especially for the pricr you pay. I say it as an Western European who grew up in restaurants, you now eat better in the US than in Europe nowadays. Restaurants nowadays are absolutely shit compared with 20-30 years ago, while the opposite is happening in the US. I am not talking about some flyover city. Hotel prices are absolutely raping in Europe, especially in some countries (France, UK). Take in account the weak salary you get in Europe.
>>2577367I definitely agree regarding food - I never understood all the memes about US food. Every time I was here I was satisfied.But I have to take a step back and acknowledge that the last time I was in a major Western European city was 2022, perhaps things changed since then. I was in Antwerp, Rotterdam, Hague, and Barcelona. That was just when the war was beginning. I am in the US right now - a lot might have changed in a year with inflation and all. Here in the US I've been to New York, Boston, and Orlando. I am shocked by how expensive accommodation is. I am being told there are some large cultural events taking place now hiking prices up, so maybe that's one reason. Ubers and food are more pricy than I remember from my prior trips (2018), but still comparable to Europe.Overall, it made me miss SEA.
>>2577379I think a lot of people were shocked about prices in the US because most people in Europe haven’t been there since at least 2020 because of covid. And the same can be said for Europe from the opposite point of view. Food in US, Canada, and Australia have MASSIVELY improved, to the point that I remember having genuinely good meals in those countries, even though great food didn’t come cheap. Even the wine from New World improved a lot. The same cannot be said with Europe. I live here, but it has gotten more and more annoying and crazy expensive to get good food, and by that I meant, great meat cuts, great seafood and the likes. The only Western Europeancountry that still retains great food quality and decent hotel quality for an overall honestly good pricing is Spain (and not in theVillage restaurants still serving with tablecloth, full service at good “normal” rates. You can no longer find these in most villages elsewhere. Villages in non-touristy France are absolutely dead and serve vile food, or kebabs.
>>2574623>yes if youre a tourist going to specific places,well guess what, the US isn't all burgers and 300k jobs either, that's something only a tourist retard would believe in
>>2574623i really think you will be homesick and regret your decision. like others have said, unless youre making serious money youre going to have a bad time. dont underestimate the things you take for granted, because you wont get any of that in the US. community is non existent, beauty other than nature is non existent. everything here is designed to extract your money from you. americans, myself included, will act like youre the first person theyve spoken to in weeks if you engage in conversation with them. Why? because no one sees each other other than shopping, say goodbye to your convenient walk to the store. this place truly is a dystopic shithole if you have any brains.
>>2577441Hey you're back, how was your ban?
>>2577443im not who you think i am. never post, just lurk
>>2574989>Almost impossible to travel in the US on a reasonable budget compared to any other continentI know plenty of highschoolers and college students who were able to travel the country on a reasonable budget . >Jobs pay more here because it costs money to work - you pay hours of your time every day and thousands every year to commute many miles to almost any job. Also, they pay more becayse things in the US, even other than housing and healthcare, cost monumentally more than in Europe or AsiaUnironic euro lies , even if you account for the cost of living Americans still make more then their Europeans counterparts . (also shit like healthcare is always covered if your working for a company ) but yeah we do work more but thats more a cultural mindset problem .
>>2574869>European policies like VAT also discourage you from being a consoomer but in the US its heavily encouraged by both the culture and the tax code to buy stupid shit.then go live in the suburbs and rent nigga . I doubt euros are buying houses with their own housing crisis .
>>2577330>US has good social mobility>spending power of average person has been going down for decades>government debt to GDP will reach 200% in our lifetime>options are secret inflation tax or fuck over the banks>USA has high social mobility you say>China is investing in countries through BRIC while USA about to be pulled into another 8 trillion dollar war or pussy out and can't protect its investments>jamal literally robbing people at gunpoint in Chicago almost DAILY, like 20 times a week.wow such a great country totally not the topby all means psyop yourself and immigrate, if you can get a job its good for GDP
>>2579382https://www.chicagotribune.com/immigration/ct-migrants-leave-chicago-winter-20231112-xdyymx6fvza6hkftqxb3nybzg4-story.htmlsuch high social mobility
>>2579382>>2579383What does some unskilled shitskin asylum-seeker from Venezuela have to do with OP? Yes it's true you can't come to the US with literally nothing and homestead your way to a better life or work on the railroad or coal mines to get middle class. Reality still limits mobility hit can't welfare your way to a big home in the suburbs and 2 cars. If you are a lazy shitskin chasing the American dream through handouts, do everyone a favor and go back.
>>2579416>ad hominem attacks against disadvantaged immigrants who literally can't even do labor jobspeople have become billionaires after arriving to the USA with pennies almost 100 years ago (Rose Blumkin). after all that growth... how much is left? obviously the empire is crumbling, only thing to do is speed it up for the next form (whatever that may be, creative destruction).
>>2574602You basically need to get a sponsor for work, problem is you won't get one at only 9 months of experience. Keep playing the lottery and keep trying to get sponsors. If your job is actually high skill (not bullshit social media management) then you can hopefully get something and come in that way then try to angle for permanent residence. You'll want to speak to a lawyer too to make sure that you don't have any issues that can fuck up your stay.>>2574736>the architecture is badThen don't go for architecture and go for natural beauty. I live in Salt Lake for a reason and it's because I don't give a shit about no architecture when it means gorgeous mountains everywhere I look.>the US is miserablemaybe, if you're a wingcuck retard who obsesses over politics instead of having a real social life>there's extreme social stigma to talking to women in public, flirting is as bad as whipping your cock out, i'm not jokingYou are an autistic loser with zero social skills who never interacts with anyone outside, ever. There is literally no issue whatsoever talking to anyone, man or woman, out in public. You'd know this if you weren't terminally online. Your next travel destination should be your nearest downtown area because god damn you need to touch grass after saying this nonsense.>>2574812>I have to actually work a lot to receive a big salary!Around 6-7% of all US households make over 200k, earning that as a single man puts you in the beyond fucking rich category. So yeah, if you're earning what two of the top earners combined make on your own, you're going to haul ass for it.
>>2574989>impossible to travel in the US on a reasonable budgetPatently false, you can find flights as cheap as $40 between major cities in america. I could go to las vegas right now for about $49. >taxes suck you lose 30% and won't see it anywhereAs opposed to europoor where taxes are even higher, wages are lower, public services are shit (how's that waitlist over in bongistan?), cars are unaffordable... You've basically only got cheap uni. As for crime/public safety, if you don't live in negroville USA you'll be fine. Actually, you can pretty much exclusively avoid crime by just staying away from the non-white parts of town. This is true for Europe too after the rapefugee crisis.>laws can be bad, like drug lawsthe US is up there for some of the friendliest drug laws though, almost no other place worldwide is as liberal with it as the west coast. >no protection from warrantless searchesNo, it really ends up being that you either tend to waive that right or you get to use the constitution to exclude all evidence obtained from an illegal search. The layman's love of the 4th is ridiculous, as if an entire country wants criminals to go free because "sorry need a warrant after my drug dog says you're hauling coke in the trunk, you're free to go now." There's no better place to be criminally prosecuted than america either.>housing regulationsvoted in mostly by homeowners who don't want to live in Houston type shitsprawl.>pricesPlenty of cheap places to live in the midwest, you don't get to whine when the whole world also wants to compete with you for housing. That being said, fuck califags overpaying.
>>2579685Learn what ad hominem means.
>>2574602You're Italian, so brown. Just pick up some Spanish, throw a rug on, and cross the southern border. Claim that the cartels killed your family and want you dead. Easy enough.
>>2579960>Shannon et al. (2017) show that while the share of the total U.S. adult population with felony records is about 8 percenthard to even emmigrate after that oof
>>2579962>ad hominems me again
>>2580100>>2580099
>>2580099>8% of burgers have a felony on their recordHalf of all violent crime is 13/52 (and rising), most violent crime is just low iq impoverished shitholes too so avoid those areas and you're fine. As for the remaining felons, white collar crime that won't violently affect you and is avoidable if you aren't a moron. The reality is very simple: whiter areas are as safe as europe but wealthier.
>>2577147youre there on vacation i imagine right?what differences do you notice comapred to your country?
>>2580342No one in the US is homeless unless they have a drug or alcohol problem or they are completely insane and refuse medical treatment. You'll find sources that claim otherwise, but the largest homeless study ever conducted in Los Angeles found that 75 percent of the homeless population abused drugs and 74 percent had mental health issues. The cross over was almost 100 percent, meaning they could not find a single homeless person in LA who wasn't either addicted to drugs, insane, or both.
>>2574812Im actually a software engineer. Made 200k out of college and I don't work more than 35-40 hours a week. the wlb entirely depends on the team, not the company esp if we're talking big tech
>>2574677this but for all europe
>>2580323>the biggest cities are low iq impoverished shitholes, and should be avoidedlike 10-20 people get robbed at gunpoint near downtown chicago weekly, and everyone from a 400k TC SWE at a HFT firm will hear a gunshot occasionally
>>2580439like 20k migrants just flooded in who aren't any of those thingsthis thread is so weird
>>2580518why is it weird? because it disagrees with your narrative?
>>2580518Ok so 95% of homeless are schizos who self-medicate using crack and the other 5% are unskilled economic migrants that don't belong here. That better?
>>2574736>flirting in pubblico is seen as badI find that hard to believe
>>2580966Flirting in public is seen as bad when the male doing the flirting is a basement-dwelling creeper who watches anime all day.Alternately, the social violation is a come-on from a leering feral shitskin, women are not allowed to complain about swarthies this so instead they take it out on the one beta nerdboy who timidly says 'hi' in the coffee shop.The solution is to not be a pathetic loser.
accidentally studied CS in America….completely unemployable. lower tier jobs think I’m overqualified, not specifically trained for most IT work. CS entry level evaporated.aMeRiCa
>>2574736>It's because there is an extreme social stigma even to talking to women in public in the US, flirting with an American girl in public is seen as almost as bad as whipping your cock out, I'm not joking.nigga wtf are you on about, most of the good dates I've gone on have been the result of talking to a girl in public. Talking to strangers is highly normalized in the US compared to many european countries where people will just look at you in bewilderment or annoyance if you try to strike up a conversation with them at a cafe or whatever
>>2581318Your job was automated the moment LLMs became mainstream lol. Skill up nigga.
>>2574636Every study on this shows social mobility in the US is lower than in other first world countries. You would have been better off staying in Norway bro
America IS the best country in the world... if you're part of the 1% informal aristocratic class or an UHNW (Ultra High Net Worth) individual that can zip around the world anyways.For wagies aka regular people, it's a hellhole.The real blackpill is that everywhere else isn't better either.There are no good places to live, work or raise a family anymore. Welcome to Kali Yuga.
>>2581342not even close, but it was automated when CS became the most popular major.Tech is growth stock, and we were in low rate environment for previous decade and now we’re not… so double fucked
>>2581395*long duration growth stock
>>25813510.01% otherwise quality of life gets worse every year
>>2581350That mobility is mostly from lower to middle class, which is easy in Europe because the gap between classes is much smaller. In absolute terms it's far easier to reach higher levels in the US
>>2575151I passed N1 and want to keep working for my American company as a infosec eng for 250k. There's a company called remote that let's them Hire from all over the world, but idk if they do visa sponsorships in japan. Is there any way I can keep this comfy arrangement while moving there (in the worst case that they don't sponsor me)
>>2574752pretty much this us has the most money most opportunity there is reason why we have most the planets gdp it would make sense to move heresomeone in my family thought the same idea and made the leap gl
>>2577147>ethnic basketball enjoyers, let's call them. Nobody gave me any trouble except for those.Yeah it's hilarious, I went to Europe a year ago for business in 2022 and they started talking about US oppression of basketball Americans, their words suggest these guys have never met one in their life. I asked them over dinner later about European opinions on Romanis/Gypsies and they all had VERY strong views, it's funny to me how much Europeans cuck for whatever mainstream progressive idealistic view when they don't have to deal with the consequences but become vitriolic racists when they do. Granted not all in either group are bad but they as a group cause a disproportionate amount of ruckus.
>>2574736He watched too much Peter Zeihan. CIA psyops are real
I like the US :)
Fuck off, we're full
I want to move to America, I have no discernible skills but I am white and once fired a gunLET ME IN
What I dont get is how there are people like OP who are willing to go that far to improve their life just for the endgoal to be more wagecucking.
>>2582891It's his goal, you have no right to critique it.
>>2582708>planets most GDPthe ponzi dollar regime is closing pajeet. china, japan, etc.. have been backing out of their treasury holdings for over a decade.
>>25835302 more weeks
>>2574602>>2574613>>2574623Don’t come to America. Age gaps are extremely taboo even 18 and 23 is considered “predatory”. Culture is declining here
>>2575211College girls are the only group worth dating
>>2584922> Age gaps are extremely taboo even 18 and 23 is considered “predatory”Where are you seeing this?
>>2584925Everywhere on social media and real life. Not to mention the “muh brain develops at 25 you can’t date under that”. In Europe you can be 30 and date 18 year olds without any problem
>>2584926>Everywhere on social mediaKnew that's where you picked it up. Highly doubtful you hear about it IRL unless you're hanging around a bunch of GenZers. Doesn't exist in the adult world.
>>2584927How are you going to date 18-23 year olds without hanging around gen z
>>2584933Idk that wasn't really the topic of discussion tho
>>258492730 year old millennial women are the one most angry about age gaps in America
>>2584936roasties gonna roast
>>2574602Lmfao, I'm looking to do the total opposite. I'm American, but I can get Italian citizenship via Italy's very lax citizenship-by-ancestry laws (my great-grandparents were from Lucca). I just gotta save up the money to pay some Italian lawyers to make it happen. I want out of the U.S. But if you really do want to move to the U.S., tell me which kind of job you have. Maybe I know somebody who could sponsor you? I've helped a Turkish friend of mine get sponsored by an American company.
>>2584922>Age gaps are extremely taboo even 18 and 23 is considered “predatory”.Don't confuse "predatory" with the roastie mix of seething and projection. And even then, "Peter Pan" accusations are far more common than "predatory." Jealous roasties aging out get mad at eligible bachelors in their age bracket giving attention to young girls barely out of college.All that said, if your goal is to find a committed life partner, the western girls in the 18-23 range tend to be really flaky and immature. Some are ready to settle but most aren't and are often even more emotional and impulsive than other women. And when you're dating young girls it's easy for hotness to cloud your rational judgement as far as wife and lifetime partner suitability. Roasties massively over-emphasize this point but they aren't entirely wrong. I've known non-zero number of men IRL who married a hot young girl only to wind up divorcing a few years later because the girl turned out to be a really shitty wife.
>>2585182that's why you mold her into a good wife
>>2574736>In the US you can't even drink a beer in public, lmao. Also the laws in Italy ensure that the food is not the poison that it is in the US. I guess if you want to shoot guns it's ok for that.Not OP but this is probably one of the main reasons I'm going to immigrate to the US. People really underestimate how much of a selling point this can be for people, and the EU has lost out on that demographic big time.
>>2585270you want to immigrate because you don't want safety protection on your food? Also the EU demographic isn't changing as much as America. The population in EU is declining since native people don't want to have kids. In america people want to, but it's far too expensive
>>2585276I think he meant own guns but the EU is increasingly anti-car, anti-gun, and seems to think your living standards should be reduced. It's pretty bizarre how people are so complacent to it there. In the US in most states there isn't much "safety protection" on anything. If you want to ride a dirtbike with no helmet with a gun on your hip and a beer in your hand, nobody is going to stop you. And that's a good thing. Americans do not need nor want the government telling them what they can or cannot do.As far as food, consumer choice is a big thing here. You have people that eat absolute goyslop covered with cheese flavored emulsified oil for every meal and you have whole economies based around the idea of "health food" and stores and restaurants catering to that. Navigating this requires "due diligence" you can pick up too loaves of bread in the supermarket and one will have flour, water, salt and yeast as ingredients and the other will have an ingredient list 30 items long. In the EU people seem to eat what their parents ate and don't really think about it.
>>2585276No, it's what >>2585279 said. Between the ever increasing laws regarding things like speech, political activism, private ownership of arms (and general self defense), increasing centralization and so on, the EU (Or UK, or any EFTA countries) just isn't really for me. Those things aren't going to change anytime soon because of what the average Euro is like, so I'd rather hedge my bets with the US.I appreciate the standards of healthcare and data protection, but that just won't cut it for me.
>>2574672All of Western Europe is more bureaucratic than America. Big government that interferes with your life. Closest thing USA has is California
>>2574869What you do is you live in a VHCOL area while you're applying for tech jobs, get VHCOL salary, and then work remotely somewhere cheaper. FAANG has started adjusting salaries based on COL, but non-FAANG remote-friendly companies tend not to care.
>>2574960>if you don't have a degree you are worth literally nothing and a degree is two hundred thousand dollars of debtkek I'm making $200k overemployed working non-technical jobs in tech without a degree. Just lie about having one and if you get called out, go somewhere else that won't check. Just say it was some random state school near where you grew up.
>>2576147Gini coefficient means classes exist, and you're not stuck in mediocrity.
