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File: h74d03a-e1618494531817.jpg (915 KB, 2493x1400)
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Which would be nicer to live in?

Bonus Question: Is Hong Kong really that dirty? I've been there and it didn't seem as dirty as New York City.
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>>2100645
Hard to say. I've been to both and they both felt very similar. Maybe Hong Kong is slightly colder in winter while Singapore is sunshine all year long. Monsoon season isn't terrible either except for occasional 2-days long non-stop rain. Both have good infrastructure. Singapore have more racial diversity while HK is getting increasingly infested with uncivilized cockroaches from the mainland. Some things in HK are cheaper than in Singapore. For example, you can get Haagen Dasz ice creams for half the price in HK than compared to Singaporean price. English is more widespread in Singapore than HK. HK got the best view and skyline in the world while Singapore look like a generic primate city.

That being said, I don't know much about their property market. But I do know that many people in Singapore commune from Johor Bharu, Batam, or outskirts of Changi, while people in HK commune from New Territories or Shenzhen. If you want to find cheap housing and compare price/cost of living, start there.
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>>2100645
Forgot to add. Singapore is definitely a lot cleaner than HK. Why, because the fine of getting caught littering can make any wagecuck broke instantly.
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>>2100653
Based
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>>2100645
HK is infinitely more interesting, living conditions are better in SG. Also, salaries seem higher in SG (at least in my field). If you just want a comfy and comfortable but boring life, go for SG; if you want something more fun and/or enjoy hiking, go for HK.

5 years ago I would have recommended HK by a mile, but now I'm not sure because of the political bullshit going on. Personally, I ended up choosing Singapore just because the job was better. I do hate SG now but that's just because I was stuck there for the pandemic.

t. worked in SG for 2.5 years
>>
Stay away from Singapore. Same as >>2100706 I have lived here through the pandemic and there is no end in sight, and the restrictions are ridiculous compared to Europe and the US. The population is scared shitless and government is too pussy to tell them the truth (ie that vaccinated covid is the flu).

The place is well on the way to going into the shitter and it's a shit place to live right now. Think again in 12 months.
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>>2100645
Hong kong is clean anywhere you'd go intentionally
>>2100653
Walk behind any of the hawker centres in singapore and tell me how clean it is, retard
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>>2100834
Walk around Mongkok and tell me how clean it is, retard. Also, hawker centers are considered as private property and the responsibility fell on the one who owns the place, not the town hall. The feds won't fine the owners as long as no one file a complaint. And there were numerous complaints filed against these dirty hawker centers but they just don't give a fuck because they can afford to pay the fine. Look everywhere else. You won't find a single speck of trash in the middle of Orchard Road, which arguably on the same level as Mongkok in terms of business, fame and social activity.
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>>2100847
>Walk around Mongkok and tell me how clean it is, retard
Cheap trinkets aren't dirt, seething copelet. And orchard road is more analogous to des voeux road, not that you'd know since all you could afford was a bedbug bed in chungking mansion, filthy backpacker scum
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>>2100860
>cheap trinkets aren't dirt
Sure bud. Whatever you say. Don't smoke that copium too much, you hear me?
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Before 2020, I would've recommended Hong Kong. Now, not so sure.
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>>2100645
>>
If you just want to make money in a clean, soulless city, then Singapore.
If you want a chaotic mess with SOVL then HK.
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>>2101115
Hmmm well I guess this is true. Pick your poison OP
>>
I lived in HK 2016-17
ama

NYC def seems dirtier than HK, especially the public transit
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>>2101155
Best noodle shop?
Best shop/restaurant that serves roast goose?
Have you ever tried the questionable room-temperature Indian food in the Chungking Mansions?
How many square feet was your apartment, and how much did the rent cost?
Did you have to learn/speak any Cantonese to live there? I know that there's a ton of English support in Hong Kong, but I was only there as a tourist, I have no idea how different it is as a long-term resident.
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>>2101162
>Best noodle shop?
>Best shop/restaurant that serves roast goose?
>Have you ever tried the questionable room-temperature Indian food in the Chungking Mansions?
>How many square feet was your apartment, and how much did the rent cost?
>Did you have to learn/speak any Cantonese to live there? I know that there's a ton of English support in Hong Kong, but I was only there as a tourist, I have no idea how different it is as a long-term resident.
Not sure on the noodle or goose questions. I'm more of a rice than noodles guy.

Didn't try room temp Indian food, but you should go to Tulsi in Quarry Bay. I got their lunch A LOT. I would also give you my favorite hot pot place, but it unfortunately closed years ago.

I was in 2 apartments over my time there. One with 2 roommates in LOHAS park for perhaps $1200 and then ~$950 with 1 roommate in sai kung. If I wasn't a new grad and/or made more money, I would have liked to up the budget and live closer to the city center, but I opted to live pretty frugally for HK. Rent is the biggest expense; just about everything else can have a cheap option. There's a huge used item market and many places can come furnished.

Didn't learn any cantonese. I could have tried, but told myself I was more focused on the tech startup I had joined. Pretty much all the young pros speak English, so that's just how it went. Most of my direct team didn't even know cantonese either, as they were also foreign.
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>>2101200

I'm actually living in Hong Kong right now. AMA

I live and work here and I'm pretty much a local, been living here the past 7 years now.
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>>2101449
How is life post-NSL?
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>>2101449
>I live and work here and I'm pretty much a local, been living here the past 7 years now.
t.
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>>2101450

Yeah things here are a lot quieter now, some media tycoons got jailed and everyone involved with the protests got arrested or fled to other countries.

The government now is really pushing patriotic education on the kids, even the international schools here now required to raise the Chinese flag. Any flag, badge or slogan related to the protests is illegal now.

Police are more brazen now, they know they can operate with impunity. But they're still not on the same level as US cops. Majority of people DGAF and just carry on with their daily lives, the protesters hide at home and seethe.
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>>2100645
>Which would be nicer to live in?
I've lived in both, albeit briefly (a little over six months each). Both can be very nice to live in. I think Hong Kong is a lot more interesting/exciting and has a slightly better climate. Singapore has slightly better food and infrastructure, much better transit, and it is in my experience a better hub for regional trips, assuming you like traveling in Southeast Asia. Hong Kong is less expensive for most things. Rents can be very high, and my experience may not be 100% representative since I was using furnished corporate/serviced apartments, but I found them slightly higher in SG. Lots of people take issue with this assertion, so perhaps it's easier to find an affordable apartment in Singapore than it seemed to me, but I signed more expensive purchase orders to live in Singapore than I did to live in Hong Kong.

>Bonus Question: Is Hong Kong really that dirty? I've been there and it didn't seem as dirty as New York City.
Neither HK nor NYC are anything like as dirty as they used to be. Manhattan is downright clean compared to the 80s and 90s. Singapore is cleaner than HK, but virtually all of Singapore is almost unnaturally clean, especially by Southeast Asian standards. I have been to few cleaner major cities anywhere in the world (parts of Tokyo can hold their own, but there's a lot more wear and tear on buildings and infrastructure in Tokyo, so some places seem dirtier than they are, and, like in some other otherwise clean places [urban Switzerland, I am looking at you], people still find lots of places to leave cigarette butts where they shouldn't).
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>>2100645
Still would choose Hong Kong. Singapore sucks
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>>2101449
best way to get a job there as a foreigner
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>>2101477
>unnaturally clean
lmao, every time you clean something it's unnatural cleaning
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>>2101491
Naturally clean: dirt taken off by sea waves. Naturally clean city: Venice. Unnaturally clean city: any other clean city.
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>>2101488

Hong Kong is short on programmers, front end developers, data scientists, doctors, nurses and construction engineers.

So the job market for foreigners here is really only for highly specialized fields. You could try teach English, but it's like any other Asian country where it's basically poverty wages and shitty schedules.

It also helps of you are bilingual, you'd get shortlisted if you know an Asian language. If you know Japanese, Thai or Korean you're guaranteed to find a job.
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>>2101467
>just ignore widescale propaganda, the legal system being completely run by the CCP, and cops arresting people under bullshit pretenses, it's still fine bro
yeah sounds like a great place to live
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>>2101497

It's not like there's anything anyone can do about it. It's a police state now pretty much, it's like any other mainland Chinese city in the political/enforcement sense.

The slogan that government here pushed out after the protests was, "it's business as usual!", Bunch of cunts, kek.
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Singapore is a nice, but soulless place.
Hong Kong is a grimdark, but sovlful place.
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>>2101495
>construction engineers.

oh nice I'm in a construction/architectural engineering program now I will finish next year, do I need Cantonese/Mandarin?
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>>2101491
>>2101493
OK, autistic smartasses. Abnormally clean. Weirdly clean.
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>>2101502
does "soul" just mean grimy decaying buildings? I'm happy without them then
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>>2101495
Shit I should start learning a language right now.
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>>2101507
who the fuck is so desperate to get a job in HK out of all places to learn a new language? especially a language that's not even spoken there
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>>2101505
Relax, I was just joking (sea waves guy). I know what you mean. However, being raised in Poland, I am used to spotless cities so I am biased against dirty places. London and Paris were really disappointing for me. So when people say that Hong Kong can be dirty, is it on the same level as the two European shit holes I mentioned?
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>>2101504

Learn Mandarin out of the two, Cantonese is a waste of time since it's only spoken colloquially and it's written in vernacular, so it's a pain in the ass to translate on Google.

If you're non-Chinese, just flex a few phrases in Mandarin and that's good enough. You won't be expected to speak it anyways since there's enough locals who can do that. What's more important is your engineering skills, I'm not an engineer so I can't help you in those details.
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>>2101509

Why are you so mad? I think learning Japanese or any language is beneficial to a job candidate wherever the are. I think your mom is calling you by the way, your tater-tots are ready.
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>>2101506
I've been wondering about that as well. People always seem to claim something has/hasn't soul based on how run down and dangerous it is and I just don't get it
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>>2101509
HK has comparable salaries to New York and London if you work in a specialized fields. Particularly if it's STEM

You can earn 6 figures in HK but surrounding you are destinations within 2 hours plane ride where the local salary is like $500 a month.
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>>2101515
I see, but in that case it applies to Singapore too
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>>2100706
>>2101200
>>2101477

How the fuck do you work in HK or Singapore...

From my research it's almost exclusively reserved for finance corporate drone jobs only or Software Engineering working 996.

Both are always extremely high work loads. I used to know a guy from uni working for Blackrock in HK and he's barely on £50k a year equivalent.

That combined with the insane rental prices, you're saving next to nothing and because the work loads are so high it's not like you can really sit back, relax and enjoy the place.
>>
This has nothing to do with what's being discussed right now, but last time I was in Hong Kong (2019), I actually saw a white homeless beggar. He was middle-aged (mid-40s or older), and he had a cardboard sign written in both English & Cantonese explaining that he lost his job & apartment, and running low on diabetes medication. He didn't brazenly approach people, though. He just kowtowed on the ground, with his sign out.

I don't really have any particular opinion on this guy, I just thought it was weird to see a white homeless guy in Asia.
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>>2101558
I worked in Singapore as a researcher. Most of the foreigners I knew were either in research (whether academic or industrial) or, as you say, in finance or IT. Pre-rona there also used to be plenty of interns, working holidayers, long-term visitors, etc.

I don't think the working conditions in Singapore are terrible, even in the big companies. Expats are usually not affected by the bullshit that locals are subjected to. I don't think I've heard any foreigner complaining about working conditions much, save for the occasional crunch time overtime.

And yes, rent is expensive, but just to give you an idea: I was able to live in a high-rise (40+ floor) apartment in a pretty central location, with facilities such as a gym and swimming pool right in the building, for like $2k USD. This is really not much when the salaries are also high. Pre-rona I travelled a couple of times every month and used to eat out all the time, and I still managed to save around a 1/4 of my salary, sometimes more. And I didn't even have one of these ridiculous salaries that the guys in finance had!

Seriously, living in Singapore is outrageously comfy, but fuck does it get boring.
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>>2101560
I dunno man, it didn't really make sense when I ran the numbers..

Software engineering jobs for about 5 years experience are around $9k a month SGD. Maybe more I dunno, that's just what I hear from locals who work there in the same industry.

The tax is low which is great, take home around $7400 SGD. But then like you said... still gotta shell out almost $2.6k SGD just on rent alone...

I'm fully remote right now and can save a lot more than if I was in Singapore. Now granted, I'm fucking miserable... but just from a financial standpoint it doesn't make sense for me to move.

What were your friends in IT on?

I do miss SG though, I was there when things were a lot more fun (Clarke Quay Bridge drinking / Orchard Towers)
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>>2101568
Your take-home salary on $9k is $8.5k in Singapore. Also, you get at least 13 salary payments a year (the smallest bonus is typically a month's salary, but can be much higher). The money in SG is seriously good.

I don't know the global situation for software engineers very well, but it seems that nowhere will pay as much as the US. For me, Singapore was the highest-paying country. So our situations are clearly different, but I hope that you find a good place.
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>>2101575
Is it true that SG IT is swarmed by Indians?
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geylang > fuji building
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Singapore is by far the superior choice. Better and cheaper food, less crowded, generally friendlier. Both are expensive af for housing but slight edge to Singapore.
Source:
我是个住在中国八年的老外
Source for my Sinofriends
在抢掉窝针惠鞋汗自
>>
Hong Kong is nowhere near as dirty as New York
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>>2101593
I'm not the anon you're talking to, but I did software work in Singapore for a couple years. I've heard that there are "two Singapores" when it comes to the work culture, you're either living the comfy life like that other anon or you're worked to the bone. I was in the latter group.

I went to Singapore looking for a change of pace and ended up working in what was essentially a bucket shop. I guess I was just too naive or sold myself short, idk, but I ended up doing it for a couple years. The work culture was 996, as you'd expect from that region, and yes, the place was crawling with Indians. Not just that company, but every IT company, it's basically India. Singapore has a policy called CECA which effectively opens their borders to India, so India has been exporting their people en masse to flood the country. The meme on EDMW is that they come by the planeload several times a day, but that's actually not far from the truth. And of course, they work for dirt cheap, so if you're doing dev work over there, there's always a fear that you'll get replaced. I ended up getting CECA'd, as they call it. Had an opportunity to take a new gig over there, but decided I had enough and moved back to the States.

I'll admit my stance is incredibly biased, but I'm not of the opinion that the average expat in Singapore is going to have a much better life than the locals. I like to think I met a good mix of natives and expats in Singapore, and it seemed like just about everyone was pulling 60-70 hour weeks. During my two years there, all but one expat I met had moved to some other Western country, the UK or Australia or NZ or the US. Most people were disillusioned from their time there. I didn't want to "give up" so I stayed longer than I should have. But it doesn't matter. If you don't leave from disillusionment, you'll leave by force once you get CECA'd.

I can't speak on Hong Kong, but if there's any chance it's better than this, then roll the dice and go there instead.
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>>2101641
Thanks for details, anon, I appreciate it.
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>>2101575
Ahh right my bad, the after tax salary calculator I used said $7400 here: https://sg.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=9000&from=month&region=Singapore

I guess CPF is pension? so technically savings?

The US is definitely the best place in terms of salary for Software engineers, followed probably by Switzerland.

$8.5k sing is around £4579 which is decent.

I'm on £70k remote with almost zero expenses living at home, so £3765 + £1000 in pension.

So once you take away the rent and other living expenses from Singapore I'm out of pocket financially, but yeah like I said I'm a fucking bored coomer sat in my childhood bedroom so yeah... pros and cons.
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>>2101493
>Venice is clean
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>>2101558
I found a software startup on LinkedIn easy apply.

Did their interview process, got an offer and accepted.

Flew there.

It probably helped that the CTO was American and former Microsoft
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>>2101655
you don't pay CPF unless you're a permanent resident or citizen. you only pay the basic tax, which is around 5-6% on a ~S$100k salary. everything else (healthcare etc.) will be covered by your employer separately.
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>>2101449
How easy is it to access the Mainland. I want to study in Hong Kong next semester but would also like to watch the Beijing Winter Olympics
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>>2101510
>So when people say that Hong Kong can be dirty, is it on the same level as the two European shit holes I mentioned?
Interesting question; I never thought to compare Asian cities to European ones (and I am quite surprised to hear that Polish cities are spotless). I think HK is similar to London and slightly cleaner than Paris, but I don’t find any of these three offensively dirty.
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>>2101514
I think grimy/rundown usually implies poor enforcement of rules/underground society shit is still alive. I don't think that's the case with HK anymore so I'm not really sure what other sovl it could possibly have besides meme references to Ghost in the Shell
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>>2101728
You know it was a joke right?
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>>2101980
>I am quite surprised to hear that Polish cities are spotless

Compared to western capitals... Well there's no comparison really. It'd be surreal to someone who grew up say in London.
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>>2101981
Sovl is difficult to explain. But it's just there ...
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>>2101568
If you're spending 2.6k on rent you're a fucking moron. Singapore's rental market is cheap as fuck.

> I do miss SG though, I was there when things were a lot more fun (Clarke Quay Bridge drinking / Orchard Towers)

All dead, sadly.
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>>2101593
Yes it is swarmed by Indians, and it is causing big trouble with the local population.

The poster >>2101641 is also completely right except that CECA is not the cause of this issue, it's lazy Singaporean companies hiring cheap managers who hire other cheap (Indian) labour. Singapore is a very racial based country where many local or indian bosses hire based on race. Work in a top tier IT/Tech company and you won't have a big issue.
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>>2101655
A good Software Engineering job with 3-4+ years of experience in a western company (FinTech or Tech) can land you 120k+ per annum easily. Compared to the UK you will live like a king.

The issue is Singapore with borders shut and covid restrictions is that it's boring as fuck.
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>>2102013
>Singapore's rental market is cheap as fuck.

Really? I've just took a look at prices for studio condos and I couldn't find one cheaper than $1500 that wasn't sharing with the landlord or someone else.

Where are these cheap condos, or do you mean slum it in a HDB?

Honestly without Orchard Towers and the bar scene where you can get in for free on Wednesdays etc, there is fuck all to do in Singapore.
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>>2101560
>but fuck does it get boring.

how boring can it be? I live in Toronto and it's pretty boring
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>>2102016
I think the issue is more down to what >>2101641
said with "two Singapores".

I'm kinda a shit engineer desu, I couldn't give a fuck about linkedin, tech blogging, programming after work.. and my work is enough to get by barely. So the worry is kinda not meeting expectations and getting fired for not keeping up with the grind. I know quite a few local Singaporeans working in the industry and it sounds a lot more intense than where I am now (American Startup).

Also yeah... after factoring in expenses I'm still better off in the UK even on $120k in Singapore.
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>>2102175
Yeah, $1500 is pretty reasonable when you're earning >100k with Singapore's tax. For less than $2000 you can live in a very nice condo, or share a very/top tierr premium landed or condo property with others.

You don't need to pay 2.5k to get a nice place here.

Also yes you can 'slum it' in a HDB, although given that 80%+ of Singaporeans live in HDBs I wouldn't describe it as 'slumming it'.

> Honestly without Orchard Towers and the bar scene where you can get in for free on Wednesdays etc, there is fuck all to do in Singapore.

Largely agree. Singapore is a fucking dead place to live right now. It's not getting better either, the government are paralysed as 4G leadership isn't fit to lead the country.
>>
Daily case is increasing spontaneously. Their R-naught is definitely more than 2.0. Curbs will get tighter. The government is already in panic mode right now. It won't be long before they go full New Zealanded. If you love being cucked by an authoritarian state, please choose Singapore.
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>>2102013
>If you're spending 2.6k on rent you're a fucking moron.
living in a 2.6k apartment was one of my best experiences in Singapore and a great memory. to each his own I guess, I don't regret a single cent I spent on accommodation. the living conditions in SG were probably better than anything else I'll ever get in my life
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>>2102538
If you're on 9k per month and paying 2.6k of that on rent, imo, in singapore that's dumb as fuck.

I'm on 12k paying 2.4k for a fucking nice place. Agree with you that the living conditions in SG are very good. I am told that UAE is better though, as land is less expensive.
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>>2101449
Did you notice any significant forms of censorship recently? I'm talking about anything media or pop culture related. Maybe a few best-selling books that are no longer sold, or popular movies that had scenes cut out due to not complying with the national security law. Stuff like that.
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>>2104486
>Paranoia schitzos expecting CCP to march in and burn bookstores.

The only thing notable was that a 'museum' dedicated to tiananmen square was taken down.

HK locals are less obsessed with 'independence' than Amerimutts are despite calling them bug ppl.
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>>2104518
Disagree with this.
There are certainly fewer people involved in public protests, but recent district voter results say otherwise.

Sure, voters may have voted on policy, but which parties gained seats, and which parties lost seats?

>>2101593
I haven't been in Singapore, but I have worked with Singapore expats, and I'm employed at a company that has an office there.

Yes.
There are Indians, and yes, the majority of them are Pajeets.

>>2101162
If you make a decent wage at a western company, there's a good chance you don't need Cantonese. Of course, that's presuming that you live in a modern building closer to Central and you shop there as well.

If you work for a local company, and live further from Central, there's a higher chance you'll encounter Cantonese/Traditional script.

I sometimes try food at Chungking.
I don't have a point of reference, but since you mentioned 'room-temperature' and are inferring questional health, you could always try a private club (but you'll be surrounded by Indians/Sri Lankans/Africans/Etc...) or eat at a place which seems to be popular: When you enter from the main entrance and reach the security desk, there's a restaurant/kiosk to the right that seems to be busy.


>>2101162
I've tried whole roast goose from Kam's, Yung Kee, and Yat Lok and they were all decent. Of course, those are considered 'premium' locations.

I just deleted a wall of text regarding roast goose. Safe wager is a place that primarily sells roast goose, or BBQ.

>>2100653
Hong Kong doesn't have litter on the street.
Singapore also has pajeets, and their hygiene is questionable at best.

>>2100645
Lots of variables...
Presuming you don't have citizenship, get to either place where you can get a full employment visa and start from there.
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>>2102986
>If you're on 9k per month and paying 2.6k of that on rent, imo, in singapore that's dumb as fuck.
Some REALLY nice apartments in SG start in the high 2k - low 3k range. I don't see a problem with spending a third of a salary on rent, hell I'd spend even more to live in a cool place especially in the current 'rona WFH times.
>>
Singaporean pajeets and singaporean chinks are based though. Spending 100 years far away from their original shitholes where they were born did them good.
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>>2101084
Reddit moment.
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>>2105064
Impossible, Reddit loves gommunism
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>>2100860
mong kok is dirty man, don't bullshit

Sibgapore is cleaner, but the grittiness of HK does have its charms
>>
I'm a r&d engineer specialized in RF and applied electromagnetics. do you guys think there is room for me ?

i'm also hsk3 in mandarin.
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>>2105094
>Highly trained & specialised in a sought after field
>Conversational local language

They'll roll out the red carpet for you
>>
>>2104602
>Disagree with this.
>There are certainly fewer people involved in public protests, but recent district voter results say otherwise.
>Sure, voters may have voted on policy, but which parties gained seats, and which parties lost seats?

I'm disinclined to look at any election before the upcoming gen since minor elections lower than this don't reveal much about national sentiment given that they're oriented to local issues (I.e. littering). You know this.

But we'll find out on Sept 19, the first ordinary elections since the new law. If ppl choose more separatists then I'd be inclined to believe you. There's also the legco gen in Dec and chief exec in March.
>>
Anglos like HK because it reminds them of Empire days, they always swoon about how it is so wonderful and has "soul".
In reality it is a city with Anglo past-poorly designed urban spaces, crampy decaying overpriced buildings. Claustrophic atmosphere and people in constant rush and anxiety due to poor living conditions. Just like London or New York-cities designed by the inhuman Anglo money chasing mind, which instinctively creates a atmosphere of competition and rivalry in living spaces that populace can be divide and at each other's throats.

Singapore-now this is a marvel and jewel of the Asia. Clean, efficient, high tech. Fabulous gardens next to shiny chrome skyscrappers. A whole domed garden complex by the ocean. myriad lights on the waves at evening with each ship telling you a story. People moving at easy and relaxed in fast paced ultra efficient public transport that is spotlessly clean.
At every place you feel relaxed, chilled out, despite the city being a commercial hub and trading nexus. People do not worry about housing as in Anglo countries and it reflects on the population. If you are tired of high tech modern buildings, just step in the relaxing cozy green gardens, surrounded by orchids. If you want to see the glimpse of the future just walk into Marina Bay Gardens where you see domes like in future Martian cities.

Singapore is the future, Hong Kong is the stinking cadaver of failed Anglo empire(may it be dead forever).

Glory to Asia, Glory to China, Long live Singapore, may the Anglosphere perish forever and humanity will be free !
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>>2105260
Based. Fuck anglo monkeys
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>>2101560
>And yes, rent is expensive, but just to give you an idea: I was able to live in a high-rise (40+ floor) apartment in a pretty central location, with facilities such as a gym and swimming pool right in the building, for like $2k USD. This is really not much when the salaries are also high.

In comparison in London you
A-most people won't get that money
B-for that money you will be able to afford a damp crampy studio, with leaking cold water, rusty bucket for a shower with bed bug infested bed
C-it will be crime swarmed niggeroid ghetto where people get stabbed daily and trash is playground for the rats

West is shit.
>>
>>2105264
>niggeroid ghetto

Actual blacks in the UK are the least of your concern. They mostly come from Africa are peaceful and nice. The worst shit you will have to put up with comes from pakis, afghans, and north africans.
>>
>>2105293
>Actual blacks in the UK are the least of your concern. They mostly come from Africa are peaceful and nice. The worst shit you will have to put up with comes from pakis, afghans, and north africans.

Actually a huge subset of Africans in UK come from Caribbean and have crime/gang culture
>>
>>2105350
>Actually a huge subset of Africans in UK come from Caribbean and have crime/gang culture

I haven't considered that. All blacks I dealt with where from Nigeria, Kenya and such. Very nice people.
>>
>>2105260
Singapore and Hong Kong are extremely similar, schizo.
>>
>>2101978

The border is still closed, good luck even trying to get into Hong Kong. We have a 21 day quarantine, meaning you'll need to fish out of your own pocket 21 days at a hotel. You can't leave the room for that entire time either.

But when things open up again it's fairly easy to enter the mainland, it's just like crossing an international border so get your passport ready.
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>>2105385
Wrong.
Singapore is much cleaner and relies on public housing.
Hong Kong is dirty and cramped because it follows disharmonious ways of the Anglo, rather than harmonious cultural ideas from China.
Hopefully the city will be purified one day and regain its Chinese character, casting the chains of of Anglo corruption away.
>>
>>2105387
I see have a contender to the throne currently occupied by the anti-french Brazilian. The best thing both gentlemen is that they are right and insufferable at the same time.
>>
>>2105260
lmao, based
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>>2105387
>harmonious cultural ideas from china
Singapore aren't either, you stupid mainland bugman. We have superior culture since the beginning while your's already died during the communists cultural revolution, which never happened down here. Fuck off
t. Singaporean.
>>
>>2105385
You'd know better if you've been there. S'pore is ridiculously more clean than Hong Kong. The city is feels less cramped, and is way greener.

Sure, Hong kong is green too, but only outside of urban areas. if, say Mong Kok, looked singaporean, it'd be green as fuck, the pavement would be twice as large, and the walls wouldn't be blackened with pollution.

There is no kowloon in singapore, for better or for worse, but there are other, cooler, nicer things.
>>
>>2105222
applied EM is a sought after field in HK ? well that's something I didn't know
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>>2105257
Although the population of Hong Kong is in tight quarters, you have raised a good point.


I haven't been following along as I'd like, and I'm unsure if there have been any rulings that may have disqualified candidates or parties.

For citizens that have left Hong Kong for places other than China, they voted with their feet, but they can also send a ballot from their new pastures.
>>
>>2100645
neither, go for taipei instead.
better in every way, while entirely comparable.
>>
>>2105738
Both Hong Kong and Singapore have a larger presence of western companies that you're probably looking to be employed in.
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>>2105738
Not really "better in every way". Taiwan is just a moderate choice with equal risks and benefits. Like this anon >>2105747 says, if you want to work with western companies, better pick either SG or HK. But if you want a less hectic, natural lifestyle, slightly less chances to succeed but definitely won't end up as a street beggar, choose Taiwan.
>>
One thing is similar in both places though-

The 2 populations are primarily made up of aggressive little gooks that lack imagination and takes things at face value being squeezed into tighter spaces for the benefits of their rulers yet passively cannibalize each other over an increasingly small pie.
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>>2105734
Yeah along with most stem. They're trying to develop the city into a scihub rather than just a financial island. They recently made special employment and biz programs for locals and mainland and Macao ppl to work easier in the area and get stimy and other shit for certain fields, particularly stem tho.

>>2105735
From what I've seen most of the fringe separationists were kicked out unsurprisingly.

And apparently there's not that many HK people actually moving abroad.

https://johnmenadue.com/heres-how-many-people-are-really-leaving-hong-kong/

Ignore his whinning.

But also HK ppl can't vote from abroad, even if they could, usually ppl abroad don't participate in voting as much compared to when they lived locally, unless it's required like Australia, so I don't they'd make an influence. Most HK abroad are older generations who would probably vote for Beijing friendly candidates anyway.
>>
Hong Kong people are fucking rude and live in their own tiny little world and believe they are right all the time.

Same goes for Singaporeans.
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>>2105923
>t. seething winnie supporter
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>>2105761
True for Hong Kong

Not true for Singapore. Singaporean living conditions are surprisingly spacious and comfortable for such a tightly packed place. Singapore also has an extremely high home ownership rate, resulting in broad wealth distribution

Hong Kong, on the other hand, is turbocapitalist and has fairly dystopian living conditions and very low home ownership rate
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>>2105928
Kind of funny how Singapore has incredibly relaxed financial restrictions compared to most western countries yet has state run housing that isn't only to quarantine gang ridden criminals, while also being one of the least free for freedom of speech in the world.

If Americans weren't so contradictory and arbitrary, it might be the wet dreams of conservatives minus the Jesus/Trump worship.
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>>2106031
>relaxed financial restriction
>free market
>state-run housing programs
>no LGBT or racial issues
Based.
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>>2106031
because the state run housing has no social stigma nor state restrictions based on who you are (provided you're singaporean of course). It's okay to live there, should you be rich or poor.

West European and North American housing projects are anything but that, focusing on solely poorfags. And poorfags living together = crime, gangs, organized crime. Singapore is the perfect place to house such things due to its multicultural society and its localisation right in the middle of SEA, yet still steers far away from this bullshit.

We should really take notes.
>>
>>2106043
>>2106204
Seems like an absolutely based place to live. Heard it's so harmonious it's boring, which is fine by me.

Anyone know how the youth culture is? Students actually study or be productive? Or they just act like edgy cunts wasting time on drugs?
>>
Why not Macau?
>>
>>2106415
>Singapore
>drugs
you could not have asked a dumber question about the country if you tried
>>
>>2100645

Why do people keep saying Singapore is soulless and boring? Because it's clean? Because it's safe? You want it to be like Baltimore or Portland with lots of exciting crime and riots in rundown areas for the sensationalist news every night?
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>>2106444

Only the casinos and prostitution is keeping that economy afloat, not really that much to do.

Especially now with COVID it's a complete shit hole.
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>>2106490
I think this is the same phenomenon when people talk about "soul". They always somehow claim that dangerous shitholes have soul and safe prosperous places don't. At this point when I see someone talk about the "soul" of a place, I assume they mean crime and poverty.
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>>2106453
Nice that's what I was hoping to hear.
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>>2106595
You must be suicidal if you ever thought about doing drugs in Singapore
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>>2106453
>>2106673
Probably make decent money arranging importing substances into Singapore.
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>>2100645
I'm from Singapore, and I have relatives in HK so I used to go there regularly too. Both places are rubbish, if you can pick literally anywhere else do it. Otherwise HK is a better choice since you can access and visit China really easily. Plus it's more convenient for trips to other neighbouring countries. HK people are rude as fuck and the streets are definitely dirtier but at least there's some history and culture there.

On the other hand. If you enjoy a soulless, robotic environment and if you don't mind sweating your balls off constantly and having absolutely nothing to do (especially with the never-ending lockdowns and restrictions), come to this god-forsaken shithole and I'll gladly show you around. It'll take barely two days and you'd see the entirety of the "country."
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>>2106737
I've been to HK, not to Singapore, which never interested me. The reason HK has a lot of soul is not because its poor or unsafe (its pretty safe and prosperous for the region) but because it is organic. It developed without a lot of central authority as the british were very "hands off" towards running it. So you find things that you don't see anywhere else. Singapore, though I haven't been there, gives me the impression of being a very controlled and "curated" place that tries too hard to appeal to what asian people think westerners are like.

I'm not sure how easy it is to access China in HK either since crossing into the mainland seemed like a hassle plus the interesting parts of China are much farther away (Shenzen is not very interesting).

How easy was it (before 2020) to explore Malaysia, Indonesia or even Thailand from Singapore? Those countries don't seem very far away.

Funny you mention rudeness since I thought Chinese were all like that, 1st generation Chinese in the US are always stuck up and rude as hell.
>>
>>2106766
>Singapore, though I haven't been there, gives me the impression of being a very controlled and "curated" place that tries too hard to appeal to what asian people think westerners are like.

That's absolutely correct. Singapore as a country is an ongoing performance art. We scratch our heads hard just to come up with little things we can call our "culture" to sell to tourists. It's all about looking good on the outside to attract the global rich to relocate at the cost of the local poor. It's an empty shell at best.

>I'm not sure how easy it is to access China in HK either since crossing into the mainland seemed like a hassle plus the interesting parts of China are much farther away

It's pretty convenient by ferry. It takes about half an hour to get over. Guangzhou is pretty accessible and is an amazing place to explore.

>How easy was it (before 2020) to explore Malaysia, Indonesia or even Thailand from Singapore?

It was pretty easy to get to Malaysia by car, or to Indonesia and Thailand and other parts of SEA by budget flight takes a couple of hours. It's almost a national past-time since people here are always looking to get out of the country whenever there is a chance to. Half my family in Malaysia and we drive over to visit whenever we could, but safety and security there can be an issue. There isn't much to explore other than cheaper food and entertainment imo. All in all, I don't think it justifies living in Singapore where you pay a premium on everything.

>Funny you mention rudeness since I thought Chinese were all like that, 1st generation Chinese in the US are always stuck up and rude as hell.

It's true that Chinese people are aggressive in general, especially the older folks. But I believe that that's a result of their circumstances growing up poor and having to fend for themselves and seeing things in black and white/friend or foe, but that's just my impression. HK people are pretty high on that ranking from my experience.
>>
>>2106774
Interesting. I'm American, Malaysia often comes up under "which countries did you not like?" when the question is posed to people here who have been a lot of places. Americans who have been all seem to either hate or love Indonesia. I would like to go there though.
>>
>>2100645
I've never been to Singapore so I can only vent about Hong Kong, it's a good vent though.
I only spent 3 days in Hong Kong, I had 1 layover when I flew to Australia, and another layover (on my way back to Europe) where I booked one night after falling in love with the city on the first layover.
From all the big cities I have visited, Hong Kong may very well be the most interesting citiy I have ever been to, where I could feel like a proper traveller again. Cities like New York may be nice, but they have the definite advantage of the North American entertainment industry which is the world wide monopole. A lot of those cities desirability come from having seen those cities in movies, music videos, shows etc. throughout your life from the moment you could open your eyes. Hong Kong does not have this from a westerners pov, except if you watched Jackie Chan movies like crazy. But Hong Kong did not seem isolated or small in anyway, it was quite the opposite. Hong Kong felt like the asian counterpart to New York, home of the big banks and global players.
Hong Kong gave me the feeling of exploring again. Foreign characters everywhere (even though most was translated in english) and completely different looking people. But to be honest, I can't really say if one couldn't say this for every other country that is not based on christian heritage or adapted it. I do not remember how I felt when I visited african cities. Most of the countries I visitted when I grew "fully" conscious were christian or at least western based countries.
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>>2106805
I'd also like to add, like other people in this thread wrote, that HK felt really organic. Of course you had the squeaky clean patches around the expo center with your tyical tourist attraction, but I think every larger city has those places. The rest of the city were beautiful, the did not seem to TRY to be something... they just were. The city had edges and rough patches, it literally looked like straight out of a movie. You had the typical back alley type of street, with street vendors, run down house entrances but also the LED screen ridden roads that are packed with people.
>>
I avoid singapore just for the weather alone, the moment i stepped out of the airport i started sweating. It was very unconformable without ac. Tropical weather kinda sucks ass unless you’re on a beach or something
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>>2106766
>It developed without a lot of central authority as the british were very "hands off" towards running it.
Lmaoooo
The Brits were absolutely ruthless with the place, you're nuts. HK developed out of the enormous money passing through it, Chinese culture mixing with British culture, and that's it. It's slowed as a cultural center since late 80s as China opened up and less money went through HK.
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>>2106812

I live here in HK and it's nothing like you described. Sure it's 'organic' the same way mold growing on fetid shit is organic.

This is lost in translation tier garbage
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>>2105703
i live in eastern europe, ive been to singapore and it is my dream to move there, i think that it is literally the perfect country with only negative aspect: faggots like you
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>>2106737
please tell me how this "history and culture" has any practical meaning on a person's life?
and please tell me what stops you to go to bars, clubs, dancing lessons, art classes or do any other hobby that you can do elsewhere? if you can't make your life interesting, how moving somewhere is going to help?
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>>2108241
I think anons believe culture is cities with dive bars where ppl died and anti govt grifters opening edgy contemporary art galleries featuring anuses that look like landmarks.
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>>2102509
That's something I never got about expats and i'm one myself. What the fuck is wrong with HDBs ? I'm earning 10k and I've NEVER lived in a condo. Before i came in i thought HDBs were harder to rent but it endede up just being your average classist bullshit.

HDBs have nothing to do with public housing or projects *at all*. They're great, clean, most of them are chill and they're often located in nicer places that condos. I used to live in a 800sqft appartment in yishun for 900 sgd. Never in my life have I paid as low as a tenth of my salary for such a surface.


> Honestly without Orchard Towers and the bar scene where you can get in for free on Wednesdays etc, there is fuck all to do in Singapore.

You guys have to learn how to live a normal life. If dating fucking, working and masturbating are the only things you guys are doing how's about opening up to new concepts ?

I've recently started to take the time baking and cooking shit, and getting into reading books way more seriously than I used to. Turns out drinking and eating is a lot cheaper (compared to bar snacks, nothing homemade comes as cheaper as hawker centres obviously) and more fun when you're doing it at home with some friends.
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>>2107267
honestly having an anarchic looking city has its charms. Singapore is too perfect looking to not be boring.

Taipei and Seoul and Tokyo seem to be good tradeoffs, but Taipei is tiny, and Seoul and Tokyo are a way less expat friendly.
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>>2109166
I think euros or Asians complaining about nothing to do in sg might have some perspective but certainly not Americans, Aussies, kiwis.

At least in the US we typically have this for entertainment:
>Bar
>Club
>House party
>Movie theaters
>Plays if you're a new yorker
>Mall
>Dave and busters type places
>Strip clubs if you're degen
>Theme parks
>Museums of other countries' histories
>Museums of our short 200 year history
>Weird indie galleries
>Beaches (depending where you are)
>Hiking trails
>Occasional odd shop (I.e. axe throwing game store, indoor rock climbing, anarchist bookstore, hookah lounge, secret silent cinema, etc idk.)
>Traditional activities (i.e. ice/roller rink, bowling, football/soccer/baseball fields)
>Holiday shit (stores for holiday gifts/celebrations, "haunted" mazes, Christmas markets, holiday parades)
>Summer camps and clubs for youth (I.e. Jew camp, BSA, special interest youth clubs at colleges like robotics or something idk I never did that stuff)
>Local parks to grill/have small parties.

Obviously this list is probably only the first three things if you live in bumblefuck texas. But I can't think of anything else that most ppl would do aside from what everywhere in the world has like Starbucks and libraries.

I assume SG has most of these things so I never know what anons are actually complaining about.

Anything about this list that anons feel absent in SG?
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>>2109219
You can find a variation of pretty much everything you have on your list, Singapore included, but that's besides the point in a time of lockdown since most of the places are closed. If you don't have a good life hygiene composed of healthy hobbies (cognitive of physical activities), you're either drinking with the boys, or dating. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that, but if that's the only thing you do besides working and watching porn, it becomes a big problem. Because Singapore is but one city, you're pretty much done visiting anything novel after the first year of staying, so now is really the time for home-oriented activities. Or outdoor ones, if you don't mind the heat.

It's not like the US or the EU where you've got a continent worth of shit to see without worrying about borders closing.



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