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File: new trv map.png (544 KB, 4972x2517)
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MAP UDATE 4.0

In anticipation of the New Caledonia referendum, I started working on another update of the Real Traveler's™ map. That referendum failed, but it turned out to be a sizeable update nonetheless. As usual, many changes are in African countries I've yet to see anyone visit in these threads. South Sudan changed their subdivisions just days after I posted the previous African update, I was thrilled as you can imagine. Another major change is the Nagorno-Karabakh war which saw them lose three provinces and Azerbaijan gain two new ones.

I also changed the text of the color categories to avoid confusion when filling out the map, and a version and date of last update in the upper left corner to better keep track of which map is the most recent.

Pic related is the new complete template. In the next post I will also include a simple .png file that you can copy and paste over your old map in MS Paint so you can update the map without having to fill in everything again. This requires that you have the most recent map though.
>how do I know if I have the most recent map?
If Norway has 11 counties, South Sudan has 32 states and there are two islands attached to Taiwan's southern Taitung County, you have the most recent map. If any one of those three is wrong (18 Norwegian counties, 10 South Sudanese states OR no Taiwanese islands), you do not have the most recent map and copy-pasting the .png file over your map won't help. All three has to be present, just two of them means the map is outdated. You'll have to use the new complete template.

CHANGELOG (1/2):
Europe:
>added Lefke Province of Northern Cyprus
Because Cyprus is too small on the map, I had to add a few pixels to the island to fit a new province.
>added Slovenia's 12 statistical regions
I have no idea which borders were used before, only that they were wrong
>slightly adjusted the borders between Basque Country and Navarre, Spain
>slightly adjusted the borders of Republika Srpska's mesoregions
>>
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Open MS Paint, make sure "transparent selection" is ticked, zoom into the upper left corner, and copy-paste this image onto your old map.

CHANGELOG (2/2):
Nagorno-Karabakh/Artsakh:
>Artsakh lost three provinces: Shahumyan, Kashatagh and Hadrut
>lost parts of Shushi province, including their second largest city
>lost the Agdam district
>consequently, added Upper Karabakh and Kalbajar-Lachin regions of Azerbaijan
>added Stepanakert province, the capital of Artsakh
That last one is not a consequence of the war, it was missing from the map from before. Armenia still has land access to Artsakh via the Lachin corridor, not present on the map as it would divide Kalbajar-Lachin in two. Note that Agdam district is part of Upper Karabakh, but the two can't be joined on the map for practical reasons.

Oceania:
>Macquarie Island was errounously marked as beloning to New Zealand, when it's actually Australian
It's technically administered by Tasmania, but I put a black dotted square around it because of its remoteness

Africa:
>added 10 new regions of Algeria
>adjusted the borders of Angola's provinces, most notably Luanda
>added Sidama Region of Ethiopia
>added two new regions of Mauritania, as apparently Nouakchott is divided into three separate regions now
>South Sudan has reverted back to its original 10 states, plus two new administrative areas
>added Songwe Region of Tanzania
>adjusted Zambia's internal borders
>adjusted Zimbabwe's province borders, as Harare is in fact not an enclave, but bordered by three provinces

Americas:
>added Malpelo Island of Colombia and Cocos Island of Costa Rica to their respective subdivisions
>the Dutch islands of Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius now has a dotted line as they are dependent territories
>added a black border line between French and Dutch St. Martin
>slightly increased the size of St. Barthélemy
>added the Federal Dependencies of Venezuela, their many offshore islands that are not part of another state
>>
>>1912681
>>1912682
Thank you.
>>
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Currently living in Istanbul. Planning to visit Albania some time in late winter, then probably moving to India in April or May.

TBQH I should have moved to India in July, but the consulate stopped processing student and project visas through October. I'd also wanted to take a motorbike trip from the Rust Belt to Panama over the summer, but coronavirus stopped that from happening, too. Can't complain much, though--I'm fairly happy here in Turkey, though I wish the government hadn't decided to implement the half-assed restrictions that they did.

>tfw can't sit in a restaurant or grab a drink from a bar
>tfw can go to the fucking gym or spend the day shopping on Istiklal Caddesi
>>
>>1912718
What do you do for work?
>>
>>1912732
I'm a graduate student and receive a maintenance stipend. However, I fund my travels through several remote-work contracts--I make a few thousand dollars per month writing, and several hundred doing administrative tasks for a friend's business. Not a fortune, overall, but more than enough to sustain myself in countries like Turkey and India.
>>
>>1912735
Nice. I work in data science and am gearing up to leave my corporate 9-5 and live off freelance remote contracts.

I'm planning to base myself out of India and explore Central Asia in between contacts. Any reccos on where to live in India? I was thinking somewhere in Kerala or maybe Goa but I haven't done a ton of research yet.
>>
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>>1912681
Since last time been to Oryol and Yamal.
>>
>>1912681
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Slovenia#Regions

Which are better than the statistical regions meme imo, and actually used irl. 12 regions are overkill for a cunt as tight as Slovenia anyway.
>>
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Nothing new since last time.
>>
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>>1912783
>can't find what the old Slovenian regions were based on
>look everywhere, google everything, can't find anything
>whatever, I'll update it to the statistical regions
>someone points out my mistake in just a little over two hours
I dun goofed...
>>
>>1912810
Do you prefer the statistical or historical regions?
>>
>>1912810
4.1

FOUR POINT ONE
>>
>>1912815
If the historical regions are the ones people actually use, I would prefer those. I only updated it because I couldn't find out what the old ones were.

>>1912817
Should I make it straight away or wait a few days? I've fucked up regardless, lol.
>>
>>1912825
How about next thread? Or put up a poll.
>>
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>>1912831
I could do it next thread, sure. Just a long time to wait. Can anyone enlighten me how I should draw the borders with this information from Wikipedia though?
>[Gorizia and Istria] are usually considered together as the Littoral Region
>White Carniola, otherwise part of Lower Carniola, is usually considered a separate region, as is the Central Sava Valley
How many regions are there? I count anything from 7 to 10 based on this.
>>
>>1912806
What did you do in Komi, Arkhangelsk and Naryan-Mar?
>>
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postan
>>
>>1912767
>Yamal
Anything fun to do there?
>>
>>1912866
Only if you get fun from natural gas, reindeers or neverending waste lands covered with taiga and tundra with shitty climate.
>>
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>>1912834
Here's a colored version of the regions and their overlap.
I'd lump Goriska and Slovenian Istria together but keep the Carnolias as separate units, which are sizeable enough on is own.

https://slovenia.si/this-is-slovenia/slovenian-regions/
Slovenia's official tourism website promotes these regions as well for what it's worth.
>>
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>>1912835
I cycled to Naryan-Mar last year to unlock dem fat Russian subdivisions for my map.
>>
>>1912834
Do it now norbro so I don't have to make two new maps in one thread, just call it 4.1
>>
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mostly did domestic travel the past 2 years, hoping to get back into it soon
>>
>>1912932
You forgot to specify what part(s) of China you've visited, anon.
>>
>>1912934
Taipei
>>
>>1912935
Samefag and bad bait.
>>
>>1912935
Taiwan isn't China.
>>
>>1912932
If USA is your homeland, why is Hawaii green?
>>
>>1912939
Japan took over Hawaii in 1941 and never gave it back
>>
>>1912938
Republic of China. Taiwan is not PRC, but it's still China.

>>1912935
Lmao, why didn't you colour Mongolia and Arunachal Pradesh?
>>
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>>1912983
>Republic of China.
>not PRC
>>
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Played it kind of loose with the "going soon" but it doesn't really mean shit anyway.
>>
>>1913014
You lived in Russia but you never left Moscow even once?
>>
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>>1912745
Dunno, dude, depends on what you're after. Do you want to live in a big city or along the beach or what?
>>
>>1913014
Why Nizhniy Novgorod and Kalmykia?
Well, NN is quite nice in some aspects but what the hell to do in Kalmykia? It could be interesting only if you're Buhddhist and unable to go to Mongolia or any true Buddhist locations.
>>
>>1912888
Awesome. I even haven't known there is summer road to Naryan-Mar, I thought you can reach it only during winter or by plane.
>>
>>1912681
How the fuck do I open this image while maintaining the high resolution on my phone so I can edit it?
>Inb4 phonefag use your PC
The future is now grandpa, you along with your archaic table mounted computer-machine will be dead soon.
>>
>>1913278
How do you live without a laptop? Do you type work reports or university essays on your phone too?
>>
>>1913282
Yes there is a 'virtual keyboard' on my portable electronic device.
>>
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>>>1912681
I've not been many places
>>
>>1913278
>the future is now
>can't do basic image editing
Your future sucks, kid
>>
>>1913238
>I even haven't known there is summer road to Naryan-Mar
There isn't. You can go very far North though, up to Ust-Tsilma in Komi. Nearby there is a "port" of sorts, where, maybe once or twice a week during the short summer season, boats take passengers for a ride to Naryan-Mar on the Pechora river for the remaining ~300 kilometers.
>>
>>1913278
>The future is now grandpa
If you can't do something as basic as this, the future is not now. Isn't there any app you can download that lets you do this?

Also, why the fuck are you so rude for no reason at all? Go fuck yourself.
>>
>>1912879
So exactly like it used to be before I "updated" it then. Ffs.

>>1912927
I'm gonna do it in the next thread, this one's already gaining traction. If you want it now you can just copy and paste Slovenia from one of the maps in the previous thread since it didn't have to be updated at all apparently. Sorry for my incompetence.
>>
>>1913278
This map was designed specifically to deter people like you :)
>>
>>1912718
you ,missed out not going to the west fjords in Iceland bro best part
>>
>>1912767
>svalbard green
isnt it split ownership between you and norway?
>>
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updated
>>
>>1913486
>an American who visited all but 6 of the United States
Based!
>>
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Request
we add a achievement for traveling during corona
>>
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>>1913488
i would of had more but my mom and grandparents got into a fight over something and i couldn't go to Oregon and i missed a uncles wedding down in the Carolinas in 2014
>>
>>1913489
Objection
I fully agree that traveling during a pandemic (or "pandemic" for non-believers & skeptics) is reasonably impressive, but the /trv/ Achievements Poster should be timeless. If someone happens to miss this proposed achievement of yours, they'll never have another chance to do it. Everything that's currently on the poster is theoretically achievable anytime. Also, I believe this poster deserves its own thread.
>>
>>1913496
well then you can use the pandemic as ez mode to get the Fuck the police achievement because every country was on that list this year
>>
>>1913498
>>1913496
also it dosnt have to be a official add in it could be a bonus slot or something
>>
>>1913489
>>1913498
>>1913500
you guys really don't have a lot going for you, huh?
>>
>>1913513
>you guys really don't have a lot going for you, huh?
I spend most my income on guns stock motorcycles and traveling idk what else there is to life inb4 family. No
>>
>>1913522
Bitcoins
>>
>>1913524
I had a few gs in btc and ltc I used it to buy drugs with I sold for even greater profit
>>
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t. pleb

Id add norway and japan to soon™ but no clue when ill actually be able to
>>
>>1913607
Given the current global situation, I don't think anyone would fault you for using yellow more generously.
>>
How has the Armenian war changed the map?
>>
>>1913612
Literally the first reply of the thread:

>>1912682
>>
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I plan to visit south-east asia once the covid shit is behind us
>>
>>1913483
Yeah. I'd definitely go there if I had another chance. Unfortunately, I was only 20 when I visited Iceland, so I didn't have the budget to do much other than hitch-hike around the Ring Road.

Anyway, thinking about leaving Turkey for Pakistan in another couple months.
>>
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>>1913288
>>1913489
>>
>>1912681
>tfw I'm in Mexico right now , but I won't add any new regions because of covid so I'll just spend 4 weeks in my abuelita's house watching Fox news.

>>1913614
Same
>>
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Added Michoacan since the last one.

>>1912767
Any good stories from Siberia or are you just there on some kind of work?
>>
>>1913489
Is 'cradle of civilization' ever going to he correct to 'cradle of hummanity' or requiring travel to the middle east not africa?
>>
>>1913762
What an odd asortment of places you've been to. Is it with work?
>>
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>>1913762
>some kind of work
This.

Nature is great but except that nothing to do there.
>>
>>1913762
Also I thought to go to Ethiopia this May (before corona), is it actually worth?
>>
>>1913485
It belongs to Norway, there are Norway's governor and Norway's law, but Norway has to share it with any country that carries out economic activities there, so the only country uses this feature is Russia that (very formally, only for continue being there) digs coal.
>>
>>1913485
So if, for example, one Russian miner beats another one in Barentsburg, they both would be carried to a court at Norway's mainland, even if they nave no visa.
>>
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>>1913762
>a scientists of some kind
>>
>>1913767

Haha never had it summed up that way but when I first filled in this map I did think it looked a bit funny.

Work (travel industry) has taken me to Argentina, Uruguay (one day only), Brazil, Antarctica, and Iceland. Colombia and Peru as well but my traveling there has largely been independent.

Everything else is just holiday.

>>1913789
Depends on what you're after but I'd say yes. We did the 'historic circuit' with a few days of trekking in the Simiens which I would say is the highlight but the churches in Tigray were also beautiful.
>>
>>1913798
>but Norway has to share it with any country
Kinda misleading. The Svalbard Treaty states that Norway has full sovereignty over Svalbard, but that any signatory can do commercial activity there. Russia mines for coal there, but Svalbard is definitely 100% Norwegian.
>>
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>>1913489
Green = Definitely did it
Yellow = Did it, if technicalities count
Red = Didn't do it, and cannot do it
>>
>>1914024
>Cannot do it
I believe thats spelt: NGMI
>>
>>1914024
>cannot
Why you can't rent a boat
>>
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Doing pretty well on Europe...
>>
>>1913489
How would you guys do 10 countries in 10 days? I think balkans, as in from north greece in a loop up and turning back around at hungary to return Into bulgaria then north macedonia.
>>
>>1914321
Caribbean islands is the only sensible method.
>>
>>1914330
How does one Island hop? The most efficient way seems flying. Boats take way longer in most cases.
>>
>>1914333
Yes, you will mostly fly. There are boats only between St Lucia, Guadeloupe, Martinique and Dominica
This is how I unintentionally got his achievement:
1 USA - Puerto Rico
2 Puerto Rico - US Virgin islands - St Martin (Dutch)
3 St Martin + St Martin (French)
4 St Martin - Curacao
5 Curacao
6 Curacao - Trinidad
7 Trinidad - St Vincent - Barbados
8 Barbados - Miami
9 Miami
10 Miami - Haiti
>>
>>1914278
>Bolivia
Good on you, friend.
>>
>>1914330
Maybe if you have your own boat. Have fun not seeing anything. Or having fun paying out of your ass for flights, and still not seeing anything. What this anon discribes is much more realistic. >>1914321 Especially if you already live in the area and drive your own car. But I still don't think it makes sense. This is just something you'd do for bragging point. And what's the point bragging about this if all you did was drive a car?
>>
>>1914337
>~10 flights just to get from the US to haiti
Is it really this difficult or are you just retarded?
>>
>>1914337
You can do usvi to bvi in a afternoon
>>
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this map is going to go apeshit in the next four years
>>
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Every time I post this map I feel like I haven't traveled nearly as much as I thought I've traveled. The Dominican Republic, Brazil, and Scotland is the next thing on my list as soon as corona restrictions loosing up due to the vaccine. (hopefully) I just don't feel like dealing with the extra hassle even if I know some countries are more open than others. 2021 I'm definitely going to a new country.
For now, I'm just traveling domestically to places I've mostly already been to.
>>
>>1914391
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Brazil doesn't really have any restrictions, so it wouldn't be much "extra hassle"
>>
>>1914398
You're right. All you need is a negative health test. Still I assume some things are shutdown and it is a risk getting sick in a foreign country. I'm just waiting after the pandemic cools down to more shit. Plus I got other finances to take care of before I leave the country
>>
>>1914404
Fair enough, Brazil is sketchy enough as is without the risk of getting covid. I'm planning trips but I wouldn't bother with Brazil either.

You could do an Alaska trip or a PNW trip and check off some new states, though.
>>
>>1913057
based, how was tanzania and zambia? I'm planning a trip there this summer with my friends, 4 of us planning on renting a 4x4 in Uganda and overlanding through those countries.
>>
>>1912848
mad respect to niggas who will color in all of central asia before any of mainland europe
>>
>>1913960
>travel industry

what specifically, if you don't mind me asking
>>
>born in X, live in Y
>lived in Y much longer than I have lived in X
>hold Y citizenship; X citizenship got revoked
>speak Y language fluently, X language poorly
>find Y culture far more relatable than X
Which country do I color red?
>>
>>1914586
>Y is colored red due to it feeling like your homeland more
>X province in X country colored blue "lived in"
>>
>>1914586
You obviously colour Y red, but you might colour X red too.
How old were you when you left X? How often have you returned since? Do you still feel some kind of bond to X?
>>
>>1914588
>X province in X country colored blue "lived in"
Yup, I was 100% intending on doing that much, at least.

>>1914592
I left X when I was 4 years old. I became a Y citizen when I was 10 years old. I have returned to X once when I was 9 years old; I was visiting extended family for 2 months. I hold no attachment whatsoever to X; I don't hate it, I just have no interest in it. I have no plans to visit X in the future.

Looks like I will be coloring X green, and Y red.
>>
>>1914340
Thanks, it's a great country would highly recommend, I also ran across the border to Chile but not counting that on the map
>>
>>1914547
I work for a tour operator. I usually go on two or three trips a year for around 2 weeks at a time.

Currently on a sabbatical so not sure what I'll be going back to in 2021.
>>
>>1914893
I've been there myself, as well as a few other countries in the region. My comment was more about the fact that I don't think Bolivia is many people's choice for a first South American country, even though it should earn a top spot.

>>1914598
What are X and Y, if I may ask?
>>
>>1914586
Are you a refugee? I'd just color both X and Y as your homeland, or just Y if you genuinely feel no connection to X at all.
>>
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I want to do a coast to coast trip across all 6 inhabited continents - 3/6 done so far
>>
>>1915120
I have a plan laid out for a road trip from Kampala to Cape Town, which I think fits your description
>>
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I wish I had money
>>
>>1915120

How was Svalbard?
>>
>>1912718
What part of Arkansas did you used to live in? NWA?
>>
>>1915741
>>
>>1915596

Awesome. Went in summer so eternal day. I got off the plane and was going to walk to Longyearbyen but a guy stopped me and said it was illegal to walk there without a gun as I would be going through "the polar bear zone". I later saw a bear by a glacier. There are old Soviet settlements to go visit and it's surprisingly cheaper than you would expect.
>>
>>1915821
Very cool. It's been high on my list for a few years now. A couple years back I had the choice of sailing around Svalbard in September for a bout a week or Tromso in December. Ended up going for the latter for the aurora so need to go further north next time for the bears and ice.
>>
>>1915741
I'm from Michigan but briefly lived in Searcy, in Central Arkansas.
>>
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>>1916919
all the way to GBAO but no wakhan?
>>
>>1916965
Not him but the Aghan visa is probably a mess to get.
>>
>>1916975
Very easy to get in Khorog actually.
>>
>>1916965
gf was scared lol, also visa is kind of expensive just to say youve been to afghanistan, gbao seems pretty similar
>>
>>1912681
Just checking, Lord Howe Island is technically apart of NSW in Australia. It's an unincorporated territory so I guess it's up to you?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Howe_Island
>>
>>1916998
One day it's easy to get, the next day it's impossible. It changes very fast.
>>
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How did you partition the UK? (and can you do the same to Vietnam, kthx)

My next destination is either Jordan/Lebanon or more of Africa, can't decide which.
>>
>>1912681
>That referendum failed
Hopefully. We managed to btfo the flnks this time again. Still one to go before they get buttblasted into oblivion
>>
>>1918406
Sending Europeans to New Caledonia to keep the natives down is China tier.
>>
>>1917744
Some territories are separated from their mother territory if they are remote or unique in some way. There's no clear rule for this, but I've done it a lot with islands.

>>1918383
>How did you partition the UK?
Regions of England, Wales and NI act as a single territory, and the high- and lowlands of Scotland. I never did anything to it, it was like that on the old map. Only time I suggested changing it, the consensus was no. Vietnam is divided into their official provinces and I see no reasons to change that.
>>
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>>1918469
If US states, English regions, and French regions are appropriate subboundaries (which I think they are) then why Balkans, Vietnam, some places in Africa and Central America -- you know, places that people visit much less often than the US or Europe -- divided into such geographically microscopic areas? 13 regions in mainland France but oh we have all 28 provinces of fucking Bulgaria? It doesn't make any sense to me. Be more consistent.
>>
>>1918601
The map is for the absolute most part divided by first level subdivisions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_administrative_divisions_by_country
Some of these are small, some are large. Some countries have few, others have many. The only exceptions are for countries that have so many subdivisions that they literally can't fit on the map, like Latvia. It's about as consistent as you can get it.
>>
>>1918650
>The map is for the absolute most part divided by first level subdivisions.
Is that a logical way to divide the map? Yes. Is it a good way? No; everyone hates it.
I asked about the UK because those territories seem arbitrarily drawn around political divisions which are typically grouped together. One could easily do the same to Bulgaria or Thailand.
>>
>>1918677
>No; everyone hates it.
What makes you think you can speak for the rest of us?
>>
>>1913489
I made this map (jeez, 8 years ago) and I tried to be democratic by including pretty much ever suggestion in the thread, even dumb ones like >>1914321

Fun fact; I made it in Adobe Illustrator which I didn't know how to use and couldn't figure out how to snap to grid, so each element and block of text was manually placed.
>>
>>1918682
>map
list, that is
>>
>>1914337
>This is how I unintentionally got his achievement:
technically speaking, you only visited 9 countries in 10 days
>>
>>1918678
People are constantly bitching about it in these threads furreal
>>
>>1918690
It is kind of an obnoxious map, especially for those of us who've been to more than a couple dozen countries. I more or less just guess which subdivisions I've been to, especially when it comes to tiny-ass countries that have a shit-ton of counties or whatever the fuck
>>
>>1918781
There's no shame in leaving the thread if you can't handle the map. You're not the first one to be humbled by it. Not everyone can be a Real Traveler™ after all.
>>
>>1918445
>keep the natives
yeah right thats why most europeans didnt get the right to vote in the referendum while the place is NZ tier thanks to france?
>le ebil frenchie is so evil it prevents itself from voting in referenda it organizes
>>
>>1918781
>Can't cross reference the map with places he's visited.
Either you're a zommer who's shot his attention span, or you're a faggot who just goes to the tourist spots for the gram™ and so you can say you've been without having any idea where you are. Take this guy's advice >>1918850 and fuck off.
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>>1918781
Don't try to ruin this for the rest of us just because you're not autistic enough to appreciate this map. If you don't like it, don't use it. You can suggest improvements, we all appreciate that, but they should be exactly that: improvements.

Alternatively if you're not completely happy with the map, you can change the map to your own preferences. That's exactly what I did. I use the old subdivisions for France and Artsakh, I use different colours and I add flags.

>especially for those of us who've been to more than a couple dozen countries
Again, speak for yourself.
>>
>>1918688
10 including the US, which is a foreign country to me
>>1914350
Yeah, unfortunately I need a visa to BVI so I couldn't go there.
>>1914344
I wanted to visit different Caribbean islands
>>
>>1914337
1 USA: Puerto Rico - Miami - US Virgin islands
2 Netherlands: St Martin (Dutch) - Curaçao
3 France: St Martin (French)
4 Trinidad
5 St Vincent
6 Barbados
7 Haiti
I only count 7.

>>1918852
If France really cares about the native population they would grant them independence instead of unsuccesfully trying to buy them or guilt them with a high standard of living.
>>
>>1914342
Speedrunning Caribbean makes much more sense than Balkans. You can't really see Albania or Montenegro in 1 day, let alone larger countries like Hungary, Croatia or Romania. They have plenty of stuff to see.
Caribbean islands, on the other hand, are very small, so it is easy to see the whole island in 1 day. You can drive around most of them within 1-3 hours.
In the trip that I described, I only feel that I spent little time on Trinidad, it's actually pretty big. 1 day was quite enough for smaller islands like St Thomas, Curacao, Barbados or St Vincent.
>>
>>1918890
Obviously overseas dependencies count as separate countries.
>>
>>1918891
If you atually live in the Balkans and do a quick road trip, speed running the Balkans is not a big deal. Say you live in Greece and you need to drive to Triest Italy for whatever reason. You can still visit individual countries on their own at another time.
Of course, if you live in New Zealand or whatever, I suppose you're right.

>>1918896
I disagree, but okay, up to you.
>>
>>1918897
My opinion about what counts as a 'country' is based on the level of distinction between mother country and dependency, and the experience that provides the traveler. Legally, the Isle of Man is a separate country from England, but culturally there's almost no distinction. By comparison, Gibraltar is distinct culturally, linguistically, historically. I'd absolutely count that as a country.
I think to count New Caledonia and French Guiana as provinces of France just because it says so on paper makes as little sense as any other criteria I can think of.
>>
>>1918889
USA and puerto rico are the same country dipshit
>>
>>1918896
cope
>>
>>1918890
>If France really cares about the native population they would give them independance
Hypocrite. You dont care about muh natives apart from muh fake oppression.
They got
>droit coutumier
>local and national election
>french citizenship
>welfare and decent living standards
Meanwhile in your "liberated countries" like vanuatu and png
>shitty governance
>corrupts governments controlled by australia/china in terms of economy
>africa tier living standards
>no say in their countries future.
Caring about the native=keeping them as part of france.
>>
>>1918930
Why did the natives overwhelmingly vote for independence? Are you a nanny?
>>
>>1918932
>muh natives voted for independance
Ok so you definitely dont know what you are talking about.
The referendum is open only to kanaks of all ages (cause they can register in nc easier) and old caldoches who were already on the electoral lists in 1990 whoch means caldoches are a minority of voters for the referendum which means that to win to you need to get part of the canaques+ the wallisians/tahitians to vote for you. This excludes the zozos from the métropole. But nice job throwing meme words around.
>>
>>1918910
Is Corsica its own country too?
>>
>>1918934
Am I interpreting this wrong?
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>>1918936
Yeah all those electorates are very sparsely populated. I am not even sure it represents the majority of the canaque population nor does your meme graph tell you how much of these communities voted for or against.
Fact is of you ve been or talked to canaques that te society is divided in clans supervised by patriachs (vieux).
The ones around hienghene took part to the first insurrection in the 90ies and have been backing the flnks ever since. Basically you do what your vieux tells you or get into major troubles.
Thats why you get isolated villages in loyauté and around hienghene to vote for that meme independance.
>>
In that case I stand corrected.
Do know that I only reacted so strongly because you showed a total lack of respect for New Caledonia. It's as if you think Austronesians are too stupid to govern themselves that they need Paris to do it for them. Besides, money isn't everything. You're the one who sounds buttmad. This is why I don't like the French.
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>>1918945
>you showed a total lack of respect for New Caledonia
Nice meme. So if you hate the flnks you hate the locals ? Lmao the flnks is a psyops its only supported by some vieux in the north and backed by australia who cannot stand having a successful non anglo territory at its borders. They never cared about the indigenous population which is whu they want to turn a wealthy island into a third world aussie backed state like vanuatu
>It's as if you think Austronesians are too stupid to govern themselves that they need Paris to do it for them
Show me where i said that.
Once again its some random foreigner telling me about a territory i have family in and spewing shitty talking points without knowing shit about the subject.
>>
>>1918948
>Show me where i said that.
>>1918930
>>1918852
>>
>>1918949
Yeah thanks for proving my point. I never said they couldnt govern themselves.
They already have a parliament on internal affair. The french presence just increases good governance and keeps the aussie and the Chinese at bay. Which is part of the reason why your austronesian utopias in vanuatu/png/solomons arent working.
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>>1918953
You did imply it. You were being unnecessarily rude and condescending.
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>>1918955
>muh you implied it
No you just see what you like to see. I think this thread has proved it quite well.
>muh rude
How sheltered are you to become offended after somebody reasonably addressed all of the memes you spewed.
I didnt even insult you.
>>
>>1918960
Let's end this conversation. I was wrong. I misinterpreted the limited information I had. Your negative tone here >>1918406 gave me a false impression. My bad.
>>
>>1918962
I blame the flnks for their shitty governance, i blame them for offering a non solution to an inexistent issue, i blame their victim rhetoric and their lack of proper reform to actually improve the life of those who are truely in difficulty on the rock, i blame their inaction when vale wants to tear down one of the lakes and only the loyalists are there to defend it.
If you think i am too hard on them then you shouldnt open it on politics in melanesia.
>>
>>1918886
>I use the old subdivisions for Artsakh
Based and redpilled. How was it there? Also mind you, Artsakh had a minor error on the old map, Stepanakert was missing. It should be just north of Shushi province. I can make a small mini-update for you tomorrow if you don't mind doing it yourself.
>>
>>1919042
I don't care for city regions, but thanks anyway.
The new map does not reflect my travel experience.
It was neat. Have you been to Armenia? I stayed in Shushi instead of Stepanakert and I also went to Aghdam. There's something about destroyed buildings that attracts me.
>>
>>1918965
fuck you nigger
>>
>>1918965
>>1919084
Well this very nearly ended respectfully
>>
Between subdivision autists and seething baguettes this thread went to shit real quick.
Meanwhile I'm just here waiting for Norwaybro to realize Bir Tawil is not part of Egypt.
>>
>>1919083
>Have you been to Armenia?
No, I almost went a few years back, had planned a trip to every Caucasus country, including Artsakh, but it never happened. I regret it now, as I'm sure you can imagine. Both Shushi and Agdam was conquered by Azerbaijan during the war, so what you experienced literally isn't possible anymore. Got any pictures?

>>1919219
I know Bir Tawil is terra nullius, but some Anon wanted me to put it on the map in a previous thread, so I did. Wikipedia states that "Egypt arguably still administers the territory", so that's how it got there. I don't care if I remove it or not, the Anon who wanted it never replied after I updated and no one's ever marked on their maps that they've been there. I'll let you guys decide.
>>
>>1919110
this wasnt me though, somebody else answered you.
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>>1919219
>make some post about the referendum we won
>121232424 triggered new worlders whine about colonialism
and im the one seething lmao
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>>1919475
>Got any pictures?
Not of Aghdam, the Armenian soldiers made me delete those pictures. I'll upload some pictures next week if you want, when I get back home, I'm currently in Mexico and my abuelita's wifi is quite slow. Not that my pictures are of acceptable quality anyway.
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>>1919487
Your tone signalled butthurt from the very beginning. You're obviously upset about it.
>>
>>1919531
Damn, that's a shame, should've swapped memory cards. Enjoy Mehico, I'll be looking forward to your images when you get home :)
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>>1919708
>should've swapped memory cards
They made me hand over my phone and they watched as I deleted the pictures.
>>
>>1919711
Why didn't they want you to have pictures of Agdam?
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>>1919722
Because it would be proof of the war crimes they committed.
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>>1919723
That's grim, but would make sense I guess.
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>>1919475
>Wikipedia states that "Egypt arguably still administers the territory"
But Egypt doesn't even recognize it as part of their territory. I feel like whoever edited that just pulled it out their ass. The citations they use even confirm Egypt doesn't count it as part of the country.
I know it's as simple as painting 4 gray pixels black in the border, but I find it weird to have them keep both Bir Tawil and the Hala'ib Triangle in the map when showing the former as part of Egypt would go against their claim of the latter.

Also fun fact for those who don't know, a dude went there in 2014 and claimed the land to make his daughter a princess, pic related.
>tfw your dad never conquered african lands to make you into a God emperor
>>
>>1919753
>tfw a pajeet took it over in 2017
>>
>>1919754
Be the change you want to see in the world
What are you naming your country, Anon?
>>
>>1919756
niggerkiller99stan
>>
>>1919571
>t.let me tell you about how you oppress your countrymen like in evil turkestan despite me not knowing shit about the subject
and you call others butthurt lmao
>>
>>1913762
Tell me more about Northern Peru and Brazil, especially anything about the jungle
>>
>>1919902
If you're interested in the Amazon don't use Manaus as a base. The city is fucking huge and sprawling and so just getting away from civilization is a huge time suck. There are better points to depart into the jungle from in Brazil but that requires more time to get to. Just go to the Pantanal instead.

I'd recommend using Leticia, Colombia as a base. That's how I did that northern Peru trip. Spent three days on a canoe around the Colombian and Brazilian border area then got dropped off in Santa Rosa, Peru to get stamped in. From there it was a 12 hour boat ride to Iquitos. Spent two days in town waiting for another boat. You can use Iquitos for day trips or as a whole other hub but we just checked out the town since it's a bit of an odd place. Then it was 3 nights on a cargo ship until we got to Yurimaguas and this was the highlight of the trip. Just slowly heading down the river stopping at the occasional little village to drop off supplies or pick something up. Otherwise just playing cards, taking in the scenery, then star gazing after smoking a joint. We then went to Tarapoto and Piura to eventually get to the Ecuadorian coast. Those cities are shit so don't go. We only went due to very poor planning. I'm planning to go back to the north one day for Chachapoyas, Gocta, etc.


I always think it's worth noting that the Amazon isn't really a wildlife destination despite what people think (again, go to the Pantanal for that) though being in the canoe/boat for a few days was very good in that regard. It's much more about being surrounded by vegetation, staying with people who call the jungle home, navigating the waterways, and taking in the ambience - the sounds of wildlife at dawn and dusk is amazing.
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Yellow is more like "would like to go there at some point".
Is there any place in yellow that's just not worth it?

To those who have been in the dakotas and minnesotta, is it nice?
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>>1919887
I admitted I was misinformed and I apologised.
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>>1919923
Did you sex a native woman and if not, how difficult do you think it would be?
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>>1919753
Fair points, I can remove them in the next update. They're both part of the Red Sea governorate in any case, I just added them for fun since that one guy asked me.

>>1919940
Oslo is okay (depending on your interests of course), but I think your time is best spent elsewhere in Norway. Some nice museums, contemporary architecture and hiking trails just outside the city, but otherwise not a whole lot to do. Nightlife sucks ass and is expensive too. Something that's one of the best things to do in Oslo that no tourist knows about, is taking the bus up the start of the Aker river (IIRC it's bus #54) and walk down to the harbour (about 10 km walk). It's really a walk through the history of Oslo, in the industrial, hipster, immigrant and finally modern areas. Lots of nice nature on the way too. What's your plans for Viken county? Not saying it's not worth it, just don't know what's there for a tourist. Finally, Aqaba in Jordan is a dirty and unimpressive city, good for looking at a flagpole, snorkeling, and nothing else. If you want to see Petra, you should color the neighbouring Ma'an governorate yellow instead.
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>tfw never been to latin america
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>>1920137
>I can remove them in the next update
I'm not saying you remove them. Just paint both of Bir Tawil's borders black and leave the Hala'ib Triangle as part of Egypt.
>>
>>1920139
>visited most of China, including the really difficult/inaccessible parts
>even lived in Guangdong
>been to all these parts of China, but never been to Hong Kong
Impressive
>>
>>1920152
He hasn't been to Peking either.
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>>1920152
Forgot to colour HK in the darker green! Used to go there farily regularly for visa runs.
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>>1920152
>>1920154
Updated
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>>1920147
I'm not sure. While it shows its status as terra nullius, I think it would confuse a whole lot of people who aren't aware of the situation. I'd rather have it just be a part of Egypt or Sudan, but I'm open to suggestions.
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>>1920171
>I think it would confuse a whole lot of people who aren't aware of the situation
>Not wanting to fuck with people
Make it white like Antarctica
>>
>>1920157
Looks like a pretty massive overland trip through Europe and Asia if I'm reading this correctly - any good stuff to share?

How was Guinea?

What are your plans in ROC?
>>
>>1920176
Nah, I want to either remove it completely or keep it as it is. I made a strawpoll for those who want to share their opinion:
https://www.strawpoll.me/42271904
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>>1920182
Actually, I quite like this anon's suggestion.
>>1920176
Black border, white like antarctica.
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>>1912681
unironically
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>>1912682
Unspeakably based
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The yellow is mainly for tier point runs. Hope covid doesn't fuck everything (again)
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>>1920418
Damn. How old are you? Poor or just not into traveling?
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>>1920181
Yeah, have done trans-siberian and also done a train/bus/hitchhiking trip overland through central asia whilst at uni.

Used to work in China and again managed to find time to travel to every province overland with the great train network in the PRC (bar Hainan as it's just tourist hell according to other expats).

I went to Guinea for work (epidemiologist by trade) pre-pandemic to work on the clear-up of the Ebola outbreak, and it was actually surprisingly fun. Lots of "it's all so tiresome" moments in Conakry which is close to hell in the outskirts, but get out and there's a lot of cool jungle and mountains. (pic related, a view from the highway out of Conakry)

Got a plan to go to ROC for work as well but hoping to get time to see the gorillas and hire a jeep to travel around,
>>
>>1919923
Yeah I've actually been obsessively looking into the options for experiencing the jungle during the last year, and it seems like Brazil is not the best option unless you're looking for a high-end lodge. I'm actually planning to go from Yurimaguas (or maybe even further back if possible) to Manaus by boat. Before that I'll spend some time packrafting down in the Manu area with a guide, so I'll probably skip doing anything organized in Leticia to save money for splurging in Guyana later on. I'll definitely go see Gocta and Chachapoyas and maybe see if I can find some lesser known place that's cool up there, it seems like a more wild and untouched part of the Peruvian amazon (outside of the national parks).

I'm aware that wildlife is hard to spot and I'm mostly going to just experience the lushness and the ambience. Though it does seem like you'll easily see a lot of snakes, monkeys, weird critters and even mammals like capybara and tapir if you go to some smaller rivers in a non-motorized boat and spend a lot of time there, which is what I'm planning to do. I'm even considering bringing my own packraft and going to explore some rivers on my own, but I'm not sure if I'm too much of a pussy to camp by myself inna jungle, though I kinda want to force myself to do it.
>>
Proposal:
Divide the UK into counties. They are well recognised, have significant meaning for travellers as well as locals, and would put the UK on a similar division density to Vietnam et al.
>>
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>>1921008
OR put vietnam into region level (UK is currently divided by region) - see image.
>>
At this rate within a few versions the map will have so many subdivisions it'll be too much of a hassle to use. Just use provinces/regions to break up countries, not counties. Having to color in 5 different things to represent ten square miles doesn't make you a Real Traveler (tm). Outside of the few very autistic people, no one is marking down each individual county they travel through and is trying to visit every county of a region.
The particularly bad offenders on this map are SEA, Portugal, and Algeria.
>>
>>1920950
Sounds awesome. Would like to get to Manu one of these days and was hoping Guyana would reopen without the PCR nonsense but that hasn't happened yet.

I'm sure you're already aware but it can be pretty dodgy in the jungle so get all the latest info about wherever you're planning on going solo. We heard quite a bit of gunfire en route to Iquitos and my girlfriend and some friends were held hostage at gunpoint for about 12 hours somewhere outside of Iquitos. I don't know what the latest is on the logger situation either but I know around Puerto Maldonado the military took a pretty trigger-happy approach to them a few years ago because the loggers were getting pretty violent as well.
>>
>>1921062
I don't get these posts.
If you don't like it, don't use it? There are plenty of Real Travelers™ invested in this map as you can tell by the responses ITT. Not everyone can join the club. It's a trademark for a reason.

>>1921008
The thing with England is that technically England itself is already a first-level administrative subdivision of UK, along with Wales, Scotland and North Ireland. Due to its size and autistic screeching by bongs ITT England was split into regions.
>>
>>1921009
Don't do this. This is way too big.

>>1920950
>Chachapoyas
Good call.
>>
>>1921147
They are equivalently large to the UK regions currently used.
>>1921121
That's true. I would agree that dividing by constituent country would make the UK awkwardly blocky. But 'regions' exist for a number of countries and are used semi administratively in a similar way to the UK. In Vietnam and in Thailand for e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Thailand

Seems most of the complaining is about the overly tiny divisions in a number of asian countries and this might make a good compromise.
>>
>>1921219
>But 'regions' exist for a number of countries and are used semi administratively in a similar way to the UK.
The Thai and Vietnamese aren't used for administrative purposes at all.
Generally I don't really see the point in reducing the number of subdivisions. We've only done this for countries where the official first-levels are abysmally small in relation to the country's size (Montenegro, Moldova, Latvia, Slovenia), literally pixel-sized or downright impossible to represent on the map.
Vietnamese subdivisions are relatively small but hardly to the point that it warrants removing them in favor of regions. Why take something away others may enjoy?
>>
Looking at this article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_of_the_United_Kingdom
It seems fine for the most part, but some parts (Scotland and northern Wales, to name a few) feel a little bit overkill.
I do agree that seeing Ireland subdivided into oblivion right next to single-click Northern Ireland is jarring, but I think we need a middle point between 14 subdivisions and 100 (actual number of counties in the UK).
Not sure what to think.
>>
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>>1912767
I'd love to see Irkutsk and Lake Baikal, is it just not very "exotic" for Russians to see it? To be fair I've seen the Great Lakes in both summer and winter, and they aren't the first place I'd recommend a tourist go.
>>
>>1921219
>Thailand for e.g. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Thailand
For God's sake. Don't do this. This is way too big.
>>
>>1921337
Ireland could be split into historical provinces.
I'm not advocating for this though. Ireland isn't an issue.
>>
>>1919940
I’m from Minnesota and spent 30 days hiking the superior hiking trail a few years ago. Northern Minnesota is pretty & can be nice to visit but I’m not too sure it would be different from UP Michigan or Upstate New York/Vermont/New Hampshire. Lake Superior is impressive though but it’s cold so you just get to enjoy the view, really.

Dakotas I have driven through but haven’t spent a bunch of time. There’s some decently interesting stuff & geology there like Teddy Roosevelt nat. park, old time cowboy-type towns like Medora, ND and the Black Hills in SD (I would like to go there). Maybe you’ll feel like a real prairie nigger out there, looking up at the stars in the vast prairie grasslands.

These places probably won’t completely blow your mind but there’s definitely stuff to see, you might have a great time, and if you’re in the area it’s worth a visit.
>>
>>1921377
What part im from mankato
>>1919940
MN is really nice up north
>>
>>1921530
I'm in the north suburbs of the twin cities right now, but I worked in Le Sueur for a while and knew some people in Mankato. Are you there for school?
>>
>>1921062
You dont need to finish the map in 20 seconds. And part of actually revising your exact routes and journeys os part of the fun for me. If you dont actual bother with the subdivisions like you claim then its not effecting you. Like another anon said, real travelers™ is a select group.
>>
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>>1921008
>>1921337
Norwegian map autist here. I see the arguments both for and against editing the UK tbqh. On the positive side, it would make it more detailed, which arguably is a plus on a map like this, and the counties in question aren't as obscure as e.g. the regions of Algeria. Everyone's heard of Norfolk and Cornwall. On the negative side, there would be A LOT of subdivisions for such a small country, one hundred of them to be exact. That, I think, would be the highest subdivision count of any country on the map. Other countries of a similar size is divied into macroregions instead of their actual subdivisions because of size, like the Philippines with its 17 regions instead of 81 provinces. And finally it could deter people from using the map properly. London is babby's first holiday, and if everyone has to fill in 100 tiny subdivisions in light green just because they went to London, I can imagine a lot of people won't bother.

In my opinion, the cons outweigh the pros, so unless there are some really compelling arguments, I'm just gonna leave the UK as it is. Another alternative would be to make two different updates, one where I leave the UK as it is, and one where I divide it into counties. Version 4.1A and 4.1B, for example. That way people could choose themselves which version to use. It might complicate future updates though.

I don't know. You guys decide. I like working on the map, so for me, adding 100 new subdivisions isn't a big deal. It aint work if you love it!
>>
>>1922146
I'm against it, but I think if you would post two crops with two different versions, it would be easier to assess.
>>
>>1922146
Having to update two maps at the same time is gonna be a pain in the ass, you might forget to update something on one of them, making you go back to working on it more often, and people will start demanding more versions for other stuff whenever any changes are discussed.
I say we just keep it to one map, but may I suggest you try adding the counties to see how it looks and then putting it up for a vote?

Also what do we do about Bir Tawil
>>
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>>1922169
Not Norwegian autism pro but German autism mega pro. Here's how it would look with English counties, Scottish shires and whatever the fuck Northern Ireland and Wales have.
It's a mess imo. Other countries that have a similarly ridiculous size/first-level subdivision ratio have been streamlined too (Moldova and Montenegro off the top of my head). I see no reason why the UK should get even more special treatment than it already has received, especially considering its actual first-levels are England, Scotland, Wales and NI.

>>1922169
Nobody cares about Bir Tawil because nobody is ever going to go there. Any option works. In the strawpoll the black border solution won with an overwhelming three votes. I don't like that option thought because black lines clearly represent country borders. Personally I'd just cede that shit to Sudan since the Egypt de facto controls the Halaib triangle.
But then again, who gives le fuck?
>>
>>1922195
The right one looks way better and more streamlined. Same case with Slovenia that was had earlier.
>>
>>1922195
I don't actually dislike it that much. Would showing Northern Ireland's counties, splitting Wales in two, and making Cornwall its own subdivision be a good compromise? Or is it a rule to stick to official borders? I'm just throwing ideas around to see what people would prefer.

Also
>Nobody cares about Bir Tawil
I and my massive autism do.
>>
>>1922207
Sadly Northern Ireland doesn't belong to Ireland but to the UK and should get the same treatment as the UK.
What makes Cornwall so special by the way?

>>1922169
>Also what do we do about Bir Tawil
Bir Tawil doesn't belong to anyone. There's only one other such case on our map: Antarctica. Antarctica is white and has a black border.
>>
>>1922226
Also, if someone wants more depth to the UK they can change this on their own accord. All they have to do is copy this >1922195
>>
>>1922226
>What makes Cornwall so special by the way?
Nothing. As I said, I'm just throwing ideas around to see what sticks.
>Bir Tawil doesn't belong to anyone. There's only one other such case on our map: Antarctica. Antarctica is white and has a black border.
So we do what we proposed to do, then? Norwaybro didn't say anything else on the matter, so I was asking him in particular.
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>>1922207
>Or is it a rule to stick to official borders?
The official rule is: stick to first-level subdivisions, unless:

1. the subdivisions are simply too small to fit on the map (e.g. Latvia, North Macedonia)
2. the subdivisions can be represented on the map but are so small due to number/country size ratio that they all end up being pixel-sized (e.g. Montenegro, Moldova)
3. you're the UK with massive first-levels (England, Scotland) that may warrant more subdivisions

In these cases historical/traditional regions (e.g. Latvia, Slovenia), statistical regions (e.g. North Macedonia, Montenegro) or other regions that in some way enjoy official or public use (e.g. development regions of Moldova) ,ay be used.

>I don't actually dislike it that much. Would showing Northern Ireland's counties, splitting Wales in two, and making Cornwall its own subdivision be a good compromise?
Would be a completely arbitrary mess within a single country. Big no.

>I and my massive autism do.
if you were that much of an autist, you'd change Bir Tawil to your liking yourself. :^)
>>
>>1922252
>Would be a completely arbitrary mess within a single country. Big no.
Alright, got it.
>if you were that much of an autist, you'd change Bir Tawil to your liking yourself. :^)
I already did :^)
But we're talking about the map that everyone is going to use, it kinda defeats the point to have everyone using a different map and hand waving possible changes with "just change it yourself bro".
>>
>>1922253
Personal changes to the maps are encouraged actually. Anything that gets more people to use the map is good. Some people prefer using the old regions of France before the mergers in 2015 which is absolutely INSANE imo but we're all on the spectrum here, and a spectrum of maps is fine as well.
>>
>>1922264
I can understand that, I just like discussing changes to make the map more accurate.
Also France's current regions are fucking massive for the amount of places people visit in them. I'm surprised we aren't using departments instead.
>>
>>1922268
>departments
Let's compare like we did here! :D
>>1922195
>>
>>1922271
Nope. No chance france is getting departments.
>>
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Probably fucked up somewhere but here are the countries everyone in this thread has visited.
No way I have the patience to make a version based on OPs map.
>>
>>1922296
>no Kosovo

Bruh
>>
>>1922195
German autism mega pro-sama... I kneel! But yeah, that doesn't look good at all. If anyone REALLY wants to use that on their own maps, I can fix it up for them (I see pixels that aren't connected!), but I won't add it to any official update. If I do, then it's only a matter of time before Americans want their counties added too, and it's just gonna snowball from there. No thanks.

>>1922169
>Bir Tawil
I agree with Germanbro, while having a black border around it won the vote, it's not a good option. Not only does black borders indicate a country, one of the major things I fixed about the map is that it's supposed to reflect the real world. That's why unrecognized countries like Somaliland has a black border and their own subdivisions, while Morocco occupies most of what Western Sahara claim as theirs. That's how it looks IRL. I'm gonna do some more research to see which of the two countries have the best de facto claim over the area, and if I can't find anything, I'm just gonna give it to Sudan.

>>1922226
>Antarctica is white and has a black border.
Antarctica has a black border because it is a continent, and is white because it's covered by ice. Saying Antarctica doesn't belong to anyone isn't entirely true either, it's only because a treaty says so. Seven countries claim the majority of it, as opposed to Bir Tawil which no one wants. I'm not gonna add a random white spot in the middle of Africa.

>>1922253
>it kinda defeats the point to have everyone using a different map and hand waving possible changes with "just change it yourself bro".
If I'm not mistaken, there's only ONE person here that uses a different map, not counting those who can't be bothered updating, and that's the Belgian with flags on his map. It's quite simple really: If an official change to the map bothers you so much that you don't want to use it anymore, change it back. The map is easily edited in Paint, I can even do it for you if you ask. I just want people to use the map.
>>
>>1922653
>Antarctica is white because it's covered by ice
That doesn't really make sense. I don't mind Antarctica being white, but by the same logic you could colour Indonesia green or Libya brown or Greenland white. It's not really an argument. Why can't Antarctica be grey? I always assumed Antarctica to be white because it's pretty much terra nullius. There are other islands in the world without permanent settlement, but at least everybody agrees to which country they belong.
Also, what's with the clear spots on Antarctica's coast?
You shouldn't consider the black border around Bir Tawil to be Bir Tawil's border, but Sudan's and Egypt's borden.

>the map doesn't reflect territorial claims but the real world
And the reality on the ground is that Antarctica and Bir Tawil don't belong to anyone.
We don't acknowledge Polisario's claims, or Mogadishu's claims, or Sudan's claims. So why should we assign a region to a country that doesn't even claim it?
Bir Tawil doesn't belong to anyone, this should be reflected on the map.
Also, Egypt considers Halaib to be part of the Red Sea region, so it should not be its own thing on the map.
>>
Hold on, I'm just reading this.
>Egypt arguably still administers the territory, but it is not marked as Egyptian on government maps.
What do they mean with arguably?
>>
>>1922296
Holy shit I've been to myanmar, do I win a coconut or something?
>>1922195
>>1922252
>>1922264
People making their own DLCs for the base map so people who are autistic enough to want 30+ subdivisions for moldova without requiring everyone else to use it sounds good.
>>
>>1922695
>Egypt arguably still administers the territory, but it is not marked as Egyptian on government maps.
Wikipedia

>In reality, Bir Tawil is mostly under the control of Sudan.
>The area is claimed and controlled by the Ababda tribe, and there are lots of miners that live in Bir Tawil, some of whom come from as far as Darfur.
YPT

Goddamnit, which is it?
>>
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>>1922705
I might make an imgur folder with the base map and various DLC for people to superimpose on the map.

For instance there are both statistical and traditional regions for Slovenia. The current map uses statistical regions but the next update will return to the traditional regions the map already had previously. But if anyone actually prefers the statistical regions for whatever reason, you could get that DLC from the imgur folder. Pic related is what I imagine the DLC packs would look like.

That being said, DLC options for a personalized Real Traveler™ map experience are cool but having a consensus for the vanilla map is still important.
>>
>>1922732
I support this.
>>
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Yo Norway OP, small suggestion for the next update: Compare county Louth IRL with its location on our map. It should border Northern Ireland but currently doesn't. It's blocked by county Monaghan, which takes up way too much space in the East.
>>
>>1922743
In fact county Monaghan is way too big in the West as well; quite a bunch of pixels there should belong to county Cavan, which IRL is way larger than county Monaghan; not so on our map.
>>
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>>1922653
>I'm gonna do some more research to see which of the two countries have the best de facto claim over the area, and if I can't find anything, I'm just gonna give it to Sudan.
Oh, come on.
What was the point of making the poll if you're just gonna do whatever then?
>>
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>>1922690
>Why can't Antarctica be grey?
To be honest, I just updated a map that had already existed for ten years prior to that, and Antarctica was already white then. I have always assumed it to be a fun detail because it's covered in ice. The sea ice surrounding it only supports that theory, I assume that's the "clear spots" you talk about. There are no other land areas nearby to contrast it (Greenland) or a border that would disrupt the color (Libya). The entire continent isn't even terra nullius, just Marie Byrd Land. By your suggestion, the majority of the continent should be grey, with just the western parts white.
>And the reality on the ground is that Antarctica and Bir Tawil don't belong to anyone.
Antarctica is one thing, but Bir Tawil does. The other Anon >>1922706 points out that Young Pioneer Tours has been there, as recently as last year, which is very helpful. They have several entries on it, as it turns out:
https://www.youngpioneertours.com/strange-tale-bir-tawil/
https://www.youngpioneertours.com/ypts-inaugural-tour-to-bir-tawil/
https://www.youngpioneertours.com/faq-on-bir-tawil/
The main points are:
>it's populated
>there are towns there
>there are mines there
>the Ababda tribe claim it for themselves, but Sudan is effectively in control
With this very recent information from a reputable company that actually went there, and provided pics to prove it, I say it's a case closed and I'll cede it to Sudan in the next update. I'll remove Hala'ib too unless someone feels very strongly about it. As for Antarctica, I'll keep it white for aesthetic reasons, and if that REALLY bothers you, just color it grey on your own map.

>>1922732
I support this too.

>>1922743
>>1922744
I'm on it.
>>
>>1922867
>it's populated
>there are towns there

My knowledge on Bir Tawil is limited but I'm inclined to call bullshit on this. It's in the middle of the desert without any infrastructure and I can't find any signs of human habitation (roads, settlements, mines) on Google satellite whatsoever.
>>
>>1922871
The people who went there literally says it is:
>We checked out a mine, then explored a place called Wadi Tawil, which is a lake during the rainy season, before meeting some locals from the Ababda tribe, who “invited” us back to their settlement. The day was spent in the “capital” of Bir Tawil, which let’s just call Bir Tawil Town
>Despite what Wikipedia says there is a population and indeed a small town in Bir Tawil fit with shops, satellite phones, and restaurants, all run by the aforementioned Ababda tribe.
I'm sure it's not a metropolis, but apparently there's something there. If there isn't, why would they lie?
>>
>>1922875
>all run by the aforementioned Ababda tribe
So why does it say that Sudan's government controls it?
If it's the Ababda tribe, then Bir Tawil's borders would effectively have to look all black.
>>
>>1922878
Are you actually suggesting the map should be redrawn according to de facto tribal control?
>>
>>1922878
Those guys are probably Sudanese citizens. The border with Egypt is probably closed while the Sudanese one isn't.
>>
>>1922875
>I'm sure it's not a metropolis, but apparently there's something there. If there isn't, why would they lie?
To get people to buy the tour I guess.
>>
>>1922879
I mean, if nobody else is claiming it..
>>
>>1922867
>The entire continent isn't even terra nullius, just Marie Byrd Land. By your suggestion, the majority of the continent should be grey, with just the western parts white.
No. The map isn't supposed to reflect claims, but the reality, and the reality is that Antarctica, none of it, doesn't belong to any country, despite claims. Bir Tawil, seemingly does kinda belong to Sudan despite claims, and Halaib does not, despite claims. You should look at the reality on the ground and completely ignore claims.

My opinion about the two triangles, Halaib should be removed as it's part of the (Egyptian) Red Sea region for all intents and purposes. But you should not remove Bir Tawil as it's not part of the (Sudanese) Red Sea region.
>>
>>1922888
I doubt it, Bir Tawil is not on their list of Africa tours and not even on the itinerary of their Sudan tours. YPT make most of their money from North Korea tours anyway, I don't think they have financial motivations.
>>1922889
Nah, there has to be a certain standard beyond just "de facto control". Can't have every tribe and resistance movement on the map just because the central government doesn't have control in that particular area. The People's Republic of Donetsk or even fucking ISIL has a better claim than the "Ababda Emirate".
>>1922891
>But you should not remove Bir Tawil as it's not part of the (Sudanese) Red Sea region
What is it part of then?
>>
Regarding regions and whether they "belong" to a certain country or not: There will always be disagreements on all sides. One will say it belongs to Country A, not B. Another will say it belongs to B, not A. Others will say it doesn't really belong to either. These regional disputes will always make someone unhappy, and OP/Norwegian Map Autist will just have to put his foot down. There are many other regions with similar disputes, but still solidly defined as "belonging" to a specific country nonetheless. Bir Tawil just happens to be the freshest on our minds.
>>
>>1922919
>What is it part of then?
It's its own thing.

>>1922928
There is nothing like Bir Tawil. Other territorial disputes cause no problems for our map because they tend t have a very clear de facto line of control, without gaps and overlaps.
>>
Alright, screw it, I agree with the Imgur DLC idea, seeing as how we can't come to an agreement on fucking anything and I maintain that the UK looks like ass in the current map and Bir Tawil is it's own thing.
Also Peter I Island should be connected to antarctica as it falls under the Antarctic Treaty unlike Bouvet Island.
>>
>>1922933
>It's its own thing
>There is nothing like Bir Tawil
I don't know if you're trolling at this point or what. It's evidently Sudanese, as proven by people who literally and physically visited the place last year. If we recognize their "independence", what other places should we add to the map? Rojava? Taliban-controlled areas? North Sentinel Island? The Navajo Nation? If you want, you can color the border black on your own map, but I'm done with this discussion.
>>
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>>1922939
>If we recognize their "independence", what other places should we add to the map? Rojava? Taliban-controlled areas? North Sentinel Island? The Navajo Nation?
>>
>>1922939
You misunderstood. Hell, I am the guy who posted the YPT link. I mean it belongs to Sudan, but not to the Red Sea region.
>>
>>1922942
So you think it should have a grey border towards Sudan rather than Egypt?
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>>1922946
Yes.
>>
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>>1922949
I thought you were the guy who said the borders should've been all black. I don't know who the fuck is who ITT anymore.
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>>1922952
I did say that, but I changed my mind based on the YPT thing.
>>
>>1922937
>I maintain that the UK looks like ass in the current map

>t. mad bong
>>
Going to bed now, but here's a final poll on Bir Tawil:
https://www.strawpoll.me/42297027
Remove both and have the border be a straight line, or keep both, with the border still a straight line, Hala'ib with a grey border towards Egypt and Bir Tawil with a grey border towards Sudan. The latter option is basically keeping it as it is now, just giving Bir Tawil to Sudan instead of Egypt. They're significant regions so I don't mind having them on the map, but they're not administrative divisions in any way, so I don't mind removing them either. Sorry for ignoring the results of the previous poll, new information in the thread made the results obsolete. I will definitely adhere to the results of this. If it's a draw, I'll remove both.
>>
>>1923022
But I want to keep one and remove the other ;_;
>>
Would there be any asinine interest in breaking Australia into local government areas?
It all looks very vague currently.
I acknowledge it would be a bitch to do though.
>>
>>1923035
For reference
>>
>>1923035
>>1923037
Some of those wouldn't even be a pixel wide, I don't think it can be done at all.
>>
>>1923035
Let's not venture into that rabbit hole. It's a first-level administrative subdivision map.
>>
>>1923022
I voted but the results are now showing. :(
>>
>>1923072
I assume you mean "aren't"? Same happened to me.
Strawpoll is kinda shit
>>
>>1923039
Afro-Euro centric map strikes again
>>
>>1923115
The map is about first-level subdivisions. Get your government to abolish the Australian states and you can have your local government areas.
>>
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>>1913489
>>
>>1923072
>>1923074
Not showing for me either. Never had an issue with them before, but here's another:
https://strawpoll.com/rokpbjhrd

>>1923037
That's not "a bitch to do", it's literally impossible. Some areas around Sydney and Melbourne even on your detailed map are less than a pixel. Doing that on the Real Traveler map without completely warping the shape of the country, absolutely no chance.
>>
>>1923501
But I want to keep one and remove the other ;_;
>>
Working on the UK DLC for the next update, and can someone please tell me what fucking subdivisions are used in Scotland and Wales? Shires? Council areas? Lieutenancy areas? Historic counties? The actual fucking preserved counties of Wales? The UK has way too many different subdivisions man.

>>1923605
Why? They come as a pair, if one of them exists, so does the other.
>>
>>1923614
Halaib belongs to Egypt's Red Sea region, therefore it should be removed.
Bir Tawil does not belong to Sudan's Red Sea region, therefore it should remain.
>>
Bump
>>
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>>1913489
I agree with this
I got to go to Portugal and Greece during Corona and it was something else
Being able to just walk to the Acropolis without a huge line is very chill. I wanna see if i can do Venice while tourism is still on the low burn
>>
Actually putting it on a map makes me uncomfortably aware of how little I've traveled in my life.
>>
>page 10
>>
>>1927684
Merry christmas! Your gift is a dead thread!
>>
Bump
>>
>>1921560
No I live here all my life
>>
>>1912681
best editor to fill this on a mac?
>>
>>1930254
>using Apple products
>can't even into paint

Not surprised in the least.
>>
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>>1913489
A few to complete
>>
Bump.
>>
>>1922296
i have been to a vast areas but its not on the map. how should i just make a green circle?
>>
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I'm not clicking paintcan on every single tiny region.

Currently living in Longyearbyen. Thinking hard about wtf I'm doing with my life.
>>
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>>1920418 feels same man
>>
>>1932507
Lazy nigger
>>
Bump
>>
>>1932507
>Currently living in Longyearbyen
What are you doing there?
>>
someone needs to make a coomer version of this for travel conquests
>>
>>1938878
what, like "regions I've fucked in"?
>>
>>1912681
yo OP what program do you use to create the map?
>>
>>1939878
Just good old MS Paint. I draw the borders by hand with the pencil tool.
>>
>>1939884
I use graphicsgale fwiw. Way superior to paint for pixel work.

>>1939878
The original first-version map was probably made by some dude on wikipedia. I have no idea if he used any special tools or did it all autism-mode pixel-by-pixel.
>>
>>1939862
>>1938878
for girls or places? One for girls makes sense
>>
>>1939884
Can you do something about visibility? Even all the way zoomed in, major cities/countries/destinations like Singapore, DC, and Macao or Hong Kong are totally invisible.

Maybe do something to simplify regions too? For example, do we really need all 500 little tiny three pixel provinces in Croatia or Guatemala?
>>
>>1939924
>For example, do we really need all 500 little tiny three pixel provinces in Croatia or Guatemala?

Are you new to this thread?
>>
>>1939927
I've been on this board long enough that I don't want to fry my eyes looking at tiny details. It's a fun map/concept but it needs to be improved.
>>
>>1939940
Just stop being a smartphone cuck.
>>
>>1939924
>do we really need all 500 little tiny three pixel provinces in Croatia or Guatemala?
yes
>>
>>1939924
>>1939940
The current map is 4972x2517 pixels, and is 544 kilobytes.
The maximum allowable image size on /trv/ is 10000x10000 pixels, and up to 8192 kilobytes.

If visibility is such a problem, then how about we just make the map bigger? We don't "simplify" regions here. The whole point of the map is to be as autistic as possible.
>>
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The thread hit bump limit, so I'll make a new thread with the new update soon. Just to be sure, the map of Slovenia should be reverted to look like pic related, right?

>>1940584
Scaling up the map in Paint would also scale up the borders, so I would have to redraw every single black and grey line on the map. It would take forever and not look good either. There's probably an easier way to do it with another program, but I only know Paint, lol.
>>
>>1940584
>>1940330
why not create more visible features for HK, Singapore, etc? Maybe just a bubble circle.
>>
>>1941734
Singapore is too small, it's literally just one pixel between it and the Riau Islands of Indonesia. As for HK and Macau, they're part of China (not a political statement, they just are) and no other coastal subdivision get dotted lines. Most island subdivisions don't. I realize it's a problem when so many people just visit HK and have to color all of China, but that's what the light green color is there for. That in combination with just writing in your post which tiny subdivisions you've been to solves the problem, IMO.

Anyway, here's the new thread with the new (small) update:
>>1941742
>>1941742
>>1941742
>>
>>1941745
Hong Kong is not China. It is a semi-autonomous enclave with "two governments, one system". It's like saying the Vatican is part of Italy.
>>
>>1941772
>"two governments, one system"
It's "one country, two systems" actually, with emphasis on "one country". I'd personally like to see the CCP crash and burn, but the map wouldn't be very good if I edited it according to my political beliefs. Sorry m8.





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