In case any of you were holding out for hope Todd confirmed in his latest update there is no ab articulation
>>8561253And to rub it in your face here is a check list of the articulation it does have
>>8561260I don't remember the original having waist articulation. Is that what he calls hip articulation?
What you haters got to say now huh?
>>8561253KEK MY FUCKING SIDES
>>8561269Ya. It actually makes more sense to call it waist, and I'm pretty sure many do call it that.
>>8561253i like the headsculpt
Can't wait for this to come in. Looks great
>>8561253Scoliosis Spawn, how progressive!
Is this a joke?Mass produced Mortal Kombat figure is several times better than this shit.
>>8561253Is the base of the neck the only point of articulation for the head or is the head also going to move at the top of the neck?
>>8561283I-I KNEEL TODD-SAMA!! THAT TORSO TWIST IS JUST TOO DAMN SEXY!
>>8561431Shartimus has a video of it, but I don't feel like going through that again. I can't recall, though some recent McFarlane figures, notably Rebirth Batman and MHA Stain have articulation just at the base of the neck. Not really sure why, but it is what it is.
>>8561431It will move at the top of the neck, yes. The joint at the base of the neck is mainly there because the unmasked switch-outs have their own neck sculpts and will need to be plugged there.
>>8561459Yeah. The MK11 Sub Zero's only got it at the bottom of the neck and that's why I'm concerned.>>8561471I'm glad to hear that.
>he can kiss his own footdude, wtf
>>8561253>burnt corpse is "sexy"Todd needs professional help
>>8561687I think only on that leg, because there was a swivel underneath the pouches.
>>8561253AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHSpawn collectors are so dumb
I knew there wasn't going to be. Not like I'm really going to take these out of the packaging anyways, funded it for the novelty more than anything.
>>8561283I got second hand embarrassment from this.
>>8561951It does look pretty damn sexy in the package
>>8561253>post yfw you didn't back scam mcfarlane
>>8561849They're not dumb, they're just battered housewives, not as bad as Savage Dragon fans, that comic turned into porno that nobody reads.
>>8561997It looks better than I was expecting. I wish more companies did re-sealable blister packaging.
>>8561253Lmao the twistPeople wasted so much money on these
>>8561253It's so weird to think that after making a handful of normal action figures he really couldn't help himself and made a statue that he cut up and forced joints in like the old days. To what purpose? What was the mental process behind doing that?
>>8561253boy that is one sexy fucking twist
>>8561253I’m so fucking glad I didn’t order this dumb shit He should have made it a statue and shut the fuck up about it
>>8561253It's a statue then. Into the trash it goes!
>>8561849>>8562030>>8562088>>8562222>>8562786> lol what a waste of mon...The rich get richer, sorry you don't know what foresight is poorfags
>>8561283Damn great soi face todd, very shoopable!
>>8562841Bubble will burst soon after this comes out and people are underwhelmed.
>>8561260>Todd counts articulation as yes/noNot a surprise desu
>>8562883welcome to 2008he never counted the actual PoA, just the joints.
>>8562841I knew it would appreciate, but not by that much. I backed a modern and classic two-pack, but regret not getting a couple trils for investment purposes. Been out of the loop with Spawn for so long that I forgot how nuts the fanbase is.
What the fuck
>>8561253Why is it so hard for Todd to just make a classic version of his MK Spawn?
Behold, Hell's truest evil, Scoliosis!
>Subjecautist defends this shitKEK
>>8563693>>8563730>those cheap shades
>>8563693Well shit, I guess the unmasked heads aren't poseable at the top of the neck. At least the masked ones are. Still a bummer.
I feel better about not backing it. I'm plenty happy with the MK Spawn. Just wish he had guns.
>>8561253Lmao, is there nobody in his team that tells him he's doing articulation wrong? Or nobody over there knows either? >>8563730What a shame, the colors and the sculpt are real nice, too bad it's poorly engineered and is the wrong scale. Better luck next time.
>>8563818>wrong scaleShoot yourself, bud.
>>8563824Someone had to tell you Todd.
>>8562892I have this piece of shit, I got him for £4 and I still feel I overpaid.
>>8563730T-thanks Todd. I love spine problems.
>>8563693What is that at the base of the neck?
>>8563840Let me guess, 1/12?
>>8563916No, 1/18, stop letting the scale you don't like live rent free in your house.
>>8563949You expected Spawn in 1/18?
>>8563949I'm a 1/18fag but Spawn is exactly the character design that doesn't usually work there>not massable>relies on intricate paint and details>organic design = needs smooth looking articulation>a cape
>>8563949Are you dumb? You're the one who called this Spawn "in the wrong scale". Sounds to me like you're the one coping with the scales in your head.
>>8561253I'd laugh if he releases a basic retail version without all the bells and whistles, with a straight torso and diaphragm joint like all the modern McFigures. There's no way that sculpt isn't geeting reused somehow.
>>8561253Everyone hates is and rightly so. Literally every comment on Sharts video is negative. LMAO not even people who backed it are able to defend it. What goes through Todd's mind when he sees the overwhelming disappointment in the final product?
>>8563960I have to disagree. I'd love a 1:18 Spawn. I really should get another black bfs blank and try making one.
>>8564159That's a great customs project, but I don't think it would get the kind of traction it needs at that scale for production.
On eBay the 3 pack is selling and being sold for 600+, modern and classics going for over 250 a piece.
>>8564175Probably not. I love 1:18, but it's really in the stranglehold of military toys. My main disagreement was with the comment about sculpt vs articulation. I just would love a line of all the different Spawns, big, in-scale Violator, Vindicator, the whole -ator clan, Malebogia, a Hell and Alley playset. Not to Mention all the cool early 90's comic military tech.
>>8564178shock and awe that people like the figure and that /toy/ exaggerates the hate to the point it sounds like trolling.
>>8564226Fuck off Todd
>>8564249>Empirical evidence provided>Fuck off Todd
>>8564156>What goes through Todd's mindProbably wondering what he'll spend his $3 million on. Most of the people bitching about it now were bitching about it when the campaign first launched. If they still backed the KS knowing it wasn't what they wanted in a figure, they deserve to feel bad.
>>8563916Oh never mind it's 7", that's an acceptable scale.But yeah 1/12 IS the perfect scale, objectively.
>>8564255>most successful toy related KS>singles and sets are reselling out at 300% mark up on ebayoh, i get it.You're just trolling, because you're butthurt over people liking something you don't.
>>8564265meant for >>8564249
>>8564265You're trolling right? Nobody likes it. People are already saying they regret buying it. It's a garbage figure.
>>8564276>trolling because so lonelyhere's your (you)
>>8564284Not him but you don't need to shill, you're convincing nobody
>>8564276>People are already saying they regret buying it.I'm sure they won't regret the amount they'll get for it on the aftermarket if they get tired of it.Cope harder. This is one rare case where you're actually better off having bought something you changed your mind on.
So what scale is this thing exactly? The same size as MK11 Spawn or larger?
>>8564322you think you will be able to sell at a profit? lmao I can't wait to see all of those eBay listings sit there forever. >>85643317"
>>8564345I mean it's better than 10 years old figure, but the MK one is still so much better.
>>8564322The best part is that it's probably just a vocal tiny minority (magnified on /toy/ thanks to butthurt trolls), because this thing was sold to 24k peopleAnd 24k is the average sale for a collector figure. NECA, Figma, Revoltech, Diamond Select, etc all sell figures where this is the middling number for sales.Most collector toys do not sell $1 million worth of units.For many companies, 5k is around the minimum number to be sold to make a worthwhile profit. This is why convention exclusives are usually limited to this number, though some companies (like Hasbro) make ~10k mostly due to demand.Actually, if you consider this Spawn kickstarter, they only needed 100k to hit that worthwhile profit point and 100,000/$40 is 2500. So for an indie company that isn't publically traded, 2,500 is the magic number. .. but not really.The Spawn figure was priced at $40 because McFarlane didn't think he was going to sell as many as he did. So if it had been sold at a convention, it would likely have been priced at $30-$35. So around 3k.
>>8564334>he doesn't check sold listings in the eBay filters
>>8564368Question is how will the next KS campaign go? Will he raise prices? Will he still make only as many figures as there are pledges? Will more scalpers, energized by what they've seen here, come into the fold and drive up the production numbers so that the aftermarket is flooded with figures that can no longer sell?Or will it be just about the same? I imagine medieval Spawn will be quite popular, but is there a chance that will be overestimated by potential backers/scalpers?
>>8564414i think he'll just do the same. Single figure with variants through redeco and different heads, plus accessories. He may lower the price if he thinks he'll sell more than his first KS.And yeah, it's likely there will be more people who will buy it just to resell (this is not scalping, because there is an unlimited number that can be produced to meet demand, thus can't be scalped). This will likely bottom out the resale market.Depending on the character selection, price, and exclusivity, hopefully he does release the basic figure to retail. Who really knows on this, but if he makes medieval shit like he used to, and he has brought this up in the past year as a potentially being sold through his store (or KS), this would very important.He shouldnt repeat the same mistakes 4H does, where people would love to buy more, which 4H doesn't because stupidity.
>>8564345lmao the fucking $20 mk11 spawn looks better
>>8564406Yeah NOW, I want to see them after it releases lmao
>>8564426Yeah, heaven forbid people actually order a figure during the month+ it’s up for preorder.Fuck off
>>8564426You'd think Todd, who was part of the comics business and part of the reason that comics nearly died in the 90s due to the limited edition speculation market, (and specifically almost had his own company die) would realize that this is a dangerous and retarded path.
>Remake an old figure >Not only is it almost completely different, it's arguably a worse action figure I don't understand why this was a Kickstarter project, there's nothing special about it except for the backer rewards. It's like he went against every aspect of common sense when it came to it's design, like the torso is baffling for a guy that's been in the business this long. I genuinely don't understand what he was trying to accomplish here, it's an awful tribute to an old figure and just an all around terrible spawn figure.
>>8564366>>8564428Body mold and articulation maybe.Should I fucking remind you though that shitty rubber cape is not only GLUED to his back, but even if you tear it off you'll end up with ugly fucking HUGE SQUARE PEG?>inb4 KS figure also has it
>>8564486I think "better" in this case is a pretty low bar.
>>8561253You can say that it's a perfect spawn figure... with a twist!
>>8564445UH, there's a difference between being able to produce millions of units directly to consumers and companies like Marvel selling a chromium "limited edition" bagged with trading card that are individually numbered from 1 to 500,000.1. Marvel/DC incentivises retailers buying large numbers by giving promo/premium/variant comics that they can resell for an even bigger price.2. retailers get an even larger discount for ordering more comics3. Kickstarter doesn't offer discounts to retailers/distributors, unless it's directly stated on the kickstarter page and usually requires a business license or some other proof of the business (if it isn't sold by the case)4. McFarlane's own intention is selling directly to consumers, actual fans. If some reseller buys it, its on his own head because he wants to treat the toy as an investment. These toys aren't meant to be used as stock or other commodity.Who gives a shit about resellers anyway? Let their market collapse. It's better for us.Fuck speculators for artificially inflating numbers beyond the actual market. But it doesn't affect Kickstarters for reason #4>>8564439I don't really understand your complaint. You saying that it's bad that a product can be sold at retail?If so, fuck off.Preorder and Kickstarter only models are shit, if a line can be army built. Completely retarded, and thankfully, most companies aren't retards like 4H.
>>8564483>I genuinely don't understand what he was trying to accomplish hereare you retarded or retarded?The KS existed because retailers like TRU, KB, and Suncoast went out of business, and there's no retailers who would order enough figures for a standalone Spawn toy.So he sold his toy directly to people who wanted a Spawn toy that is only based on his comic, not some video game.People liked what they saw, gave money, and the KS succeeded.Ain't big think.
>>8564526>mk spawn sells like hot cakes>THERE BE NO MARKET FOR SPAWN TOYS Bruh
>>8564531Todd's word against yours.
>>8564531But MK Spawn was part of an existing MK line that retailers were already buying. Getting stores to buy and carve out a space for a single line consisting of a single figure was the challenge. Doesn't matter if Todd is confident it will sell, it's not part of a larger "franchise" of toys in the current year.
>>8564531Retailers ordered the Mortal Kombat line, that sells millions of units in just the US.Retailers aren't ordering a toyline based on a comic that sells 15k units on a good month.If TRU or KB still existed, they'd make orders like they usually did, and would have allowed McFarlane to produce their Spawn toyline without turning to KS.If TRU or KB still existed, we'd be on the second or third wave by now, which would have 3-5 figures every 3 months.
>>8564178>Is sellingSelling shit that you don't have to yourself trying to "raise" the average price in the market only works in Transformers and Hot toys because Japanese scalpers do it, not even 1 single japanese seller is interested in this shit because the product is so bad that nobody is willing to pay more than 30$ after Shart's vid, and also if you want a Spawn statue there are tons of better figures without articulation that Todd made for 20 years
>>8564345I...I don't understand. Why wouldn't you just get the MK figure? Am I missing something glaringly obvious?
>>8564622I'm so happy you got a trip so I can finally filter you.
>>8564722Well if you're not retarded you might still want to get that cape and accessories.And some people genuinely prefer original spawn suit to his upgraded one (with more red and less armor)But figure itself is objectively worse, even before we get to twisted torso.
>>8564486A giant square peg is better than a hinged fuckhuge cape that apparently is also glued on
>>8564265>>most successful toy related KSLol no it isn't. The Haslab Sentinel and Razor Crest both beat it.
>>8564758The Sentinel and Razor Crest were on Kickstarter?
>>8564798They were crowdfunded. They weren't directly on Kickstarter sure but they definitely were vastly more successful crowdfunded projects. The most successful crowdfunded toys ever actually.
>>8564818Then they’re not the most successful kickstarters then, as they were not on kickstart?
>>8564758>>8564818>derpIf you want to create a new goalpost, you might as well get it right. More people backed the Spawn figure than the Sentinel.
>>8564831Fair enough. I guess when I see Kickstarter I think of "crowdfunding" as a whole. Which was what Todd was bragging about for about a month and a half, until the Haslab Sentinel launched. I guess he had to move the goalposts lol.
>>8564836That doesn't make the Spawn figure good
>>8564836And the Haslab stuff made more money. What's your point?
>>8564839IT means a lot of people liked what they saw though, which is roughly the amount of people who buy the average Mafex or Diamond Select figure.
>>8564842And people ate up MK11 Spawn which isn't even accurate to the original comics. Maybe the reason that the KS was so successful was because the market is dying for Spawn toys, not that the figure itself is good. (it's not)
>subjectanon comes in and ruins another Spawn threadevery fucking time.
>>8564887It was ruined far before that.
>>8564887Oh fuck off. Stop fucking ruining threads with your boo hoo bullshit. YOU don't give a fuck. You just want to ruin it yourself. Fuck you.
>>8564851100% thisIf it weren't for McFarlane being the only one with the license since he owns the franchise outright, and there not having been any Spawn toys at all for almost a decade, nobody would have ordered this piece of shit.
>>8564911But, I'm not the one being confrontational and spewing made up bullshit to try and sound like I'm right.
>BB.BUT AT LEAST THE CAPE LOOKS DOPE! I CAN USE THE CAPE FOR MY MK SPAWN!!!! S.S.STAY MAD POORFAG!!!!OHNNONONONONONONONOONNONONAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
every single fucking aspect of this figure is meme-tier
>>8565018Did you misread that? The cape has also always been removable.
>>8565022that's the point monkey, a figure with 200 issues >BB.BUT THE CAPE IS REMOVABLE DON'T WORRY!
>>8565026Wtf are you even saying?
>>8565026You're a retard
>>8561253>>8563730>>8565020Like watching a train wreck in slow motion
>>8564445Todd is a manchilld who doesn't understand the market anymore, he's like a corporate boomer who still thinks kids are into beyblades and pogs or something. >>8564851MK11 Spawn is a nice upgrade for a modern spawn and is in scale with most 6 inch figures while looking damn fine and being one of the good McFarlane releases. It's no wonder it got bought up. I think this did well because the markethas wanted a classic spawn, but mostly because there hasn't been a decent classic spawn since the og line IIRC. I don't trust re-Todd Mcfarland to do anything right, but he has his loyal fans who will buy anything he puts out about his comics. >>8564911You ruin every thread subby, it's about time your 42+ year old ass moved out of his mom's house and stopped posting here like you pinky promised you would, loser.
>>8564851>is dyingYou're right that it's fans of Spawn who want whatever they can get, but Spawn toys have BEEN dead, they aren't 'dying'.
>>8565107That's not what he said. He said that the fans are dying FOR Spawn toys, as in they're clamoring for them. Is reading comprehension that difficult?
>>8565093It’s also nostalgia. Say what you will about Mcfarlane today, but he revolutionized the collector figure market in the very early 2000’s. A lot of us bought Spawn figures even though we never read the comics just because they looked so good. A lot of people bought the MK 11 version and this one because of that.
>>8565020>Put in a stretch goal for steel chains >Keep the retarded plastic cape
>>8565064kill yourself Todd maybe then Spawn's rights will be in better hands
>>8565564Something with paws typed this
>>8564754wasnt it a stick insteand of a huge peg? something like a backhole for a stand i think
>>8564722I like the MK spawn better but i fucking hate the MK aesthetic, the KS spawn at least has a better comic appearance.
>>8564722for one they are all scalped up.
>>8564345I really wish they would just update the i10 Spawn
>>8564491kek fucking got me
>>8561253it's strange how shitty that joint cut at the base of the neck is... It's funny because whenever they say thi sis to preserve sculpt... It's even more apparent that this is a statue cut up to be a toy instead of being designed to achieve a balance of both.
>>8566061The worst part is that it's not actually strange at all. It makes perfect sense as it's the exact type of retarded shit Todd's always done.
>>8565093swing and a miss, shitposter.
>>8566061>this is a statue cut up to be a toyBut it is! Do you saw the first prototype? It was a statue, a literal statue and Todd was adding joints for months like "rewards" for their Kickstarter project I'm not even memeing, he added joints as "gifts" his first prototype was a statue
>>8564428Yes but the new one costs MORE so therefore is is BETTER
>>8564345I'm glad I bought several of those MK Spawns, ima be rich!
>>8564345The original looks better than the new one
>>8566232Stop making shit up. The campaign dropped and the video showing the articulation layout was up. The "gifts" were additional accessories and what not.
>10 year Spawn has more articulation.Wow.
>>8566528The figure was literally made as a statue and shown of at Toy Fair or some other show last year before Covid hit. No one's making shit up, pic related
>>8566557That's fine (in the sense that it is what it is), what's made up is the guy saying adding articulation was done as a "gift" or "reward", which it wasn't.
>>8566566Just filter that retard. He's just some South American creature that somehow learned figured out how to type with his paws.
>>8566574>South American creatureYou might as well call them a southern american... spawn.
>>8566579Pretty sure he sucks goats
>>8566557I don't understand why Todd did this.
>>8561253Why is the articulation so much worse on the much more expensive figure?Fucking flappy peg hands when the $20 figures have import style wrists? No chest joint?Hell even the alt heads have weird pre-pose shit going on.I don't really understand why anyone would do this when they are raising the bar for cheap retail figures.
>>8561253i love Todd, he's deluded, but he really believes in everything he does
>>8569005Seems like abit of a narcissist honestly.
>>8569015That was basically the whole reason Image was started and slowly died by the end of the 90s, until they effectively rebranded and got a few hits operating like a real indie instead of an exclusive clubhouse when it was founded.>>8568997I genuinely believe that all the other McFarlane figs are made by his employees and have been since the brand started putting out real toys a year or two ago. This fig has all the same problems his sports statues and the like had from the 00s and seems to be his baby that took zero criticisms or reworks, so it makes sense that he's the main or only dude designing it.
>>8569020He has final say about everything, but yes, as Tye had mentioned, he was more hands-on with KS Spawn and it being his adopted baby boy, he has final and unwavering say on everything about it.
>>8566557Just looks like such a boring figure, even as a statue,.
>>8569331You know, loss of taste could be a symptom of Covid.
>>8569641You might be retarded, anon.
>>8569647I'm a doctor, and yes, I agree with you, he's clinically retarded .
>>8568997The KS Spawn was purposely made to be like his old figures. It got modernized with the articulation, hence "remastered"And having fewer figures being made ups the price, just like with convention exclusives.
>>8569686>I'm a doctorI hope that's true. Missing out on half a grand of resale value would really sting otherwise.
>>8570009But there was no torso twist!The shut you posted looks better simply because it doesn't have torso twist!
>>8570130>purposely sculpted to be as blandly posed as the original>in an era of dynamically posed McStatues>less articulation than the figure from 7 years earlierMcFarlane loves "remastering" his shit and has done it many ways over the decadessee pic to know how McFarlane was doing the rest of his figures during the time of that figure to understand McFarlane's methods.
>>8570009>The KS Spawn was purposely made to be like his old figures.>"IT'S MEANT TO BE SHIT YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!"
>>8570107>half a grand of resale valueYou're hilarious
>>8570218how stupid are you?The guy I replied to even asks why the rest of his toys are neutrally sculpted with more articulation, while that very specific figure that is literally called a remaster, is sculpted to look preposed, which is how McFarlane had been doing toys for ages.It's very purposeful and you're pretty stupid and/or a troll for not realizing that, especially because of how it was marketed and advertised for about a year before the KS even started.If you want a neutrally sculpted toy, then get the retail figures McFarlane produces.The Mortal Kombat Spawn gets a lot of love here on /toy/
>>8563730the more days go by, the more surreal it feels about how it's a figure made in 2020
>>8570251>is sculpted to look preposed, which is how McFarlane had been doing toys for ages.Except for the very figure the KS is based on.
>>8570324you don't seem to realize how many versions of him there are, but that's to be expected from a stupid person who is likely just a troll. https://i.4cdn.org/toy/1605689679630.jpgand pic
>>8570335Except the KS Spawn isn't based on ANY of those. It's based on the original figure which is in a nuettal pose. Why does pointing this out make me a troll?
>>8570341oh, so you really are stupid and not pretending for the sake of trolling?Since you're stupid, i'll even point out the differences between them. Hamburger head Spawn didn't exist at this point. He also doesn't have the spikes on the legs. Spikes on the arm also aren't paired up on the arms. Different amount of chains too.It's almost like McFarlane is adding a bunch of little things that are found on later versions and why he isn't calling it a remake or reproduction.
>>8570347Ok. Now you're moving the goalposts from>Other Spawns were preposedTo>But he changed ither things too!!!I think you're the one being reTodded.
>>8570354see >>8570009>The KS Spawn was purposely made to be like his old figures. seems like I've been saying the same shit over and over to someone stupid who needs shit to be repeatedYou claimed that it was based on some very specific figure and that's not true, but again, you've proven yourself to know nothing because you're stupid.
>>8570364>>The KS Spawn was purposely made to be like his old figures. Except for the actual figure it's based on. The first Spawn. The one that wasn't pre posed.
>>8570364>You claimed that it was based on some very specific figure and that's not trueTodd literally said it's based off of the first Spawn figure. It's a literal remake of that original figure. Where did you get it in your head that it isn't? They even displayed the original along side the prototype statue at Toy Fair.
>>8570371>ignoring the fact it isn't based on a specific figureoh, you're doubling down with your stupidity and claim blindness too?you're one trait away from being a straight up monkey
>>8570374never watched his interviews, huh? https://youtu.be/SUDTGtjlSFQ?t=952
this thread is comedy gold
>>8570251Why make a pre-posed figure in the first place when that kind of figure has been obsolete for years? Either make a proper action figure or make a statue. Half-and-half bullshit belongs dead in the past. I don't care if It'S a HoMaGe, it's a shit homage to a shit way of making figures.
>>8570386people still like preposed bullshit.Even lines like Revoltechs that have a crazy amount of articulation can look downright hideos if you try and pose them neutrally.In short, you're autistic if you don't understand people can like things you don't.
>>8570388>Even lines like Revoltechs that have a crazy amount of articulation can look downright hideos if you try and pose them neutrally.Not in quite a long time. Pretty much every Yamaguchi figure released in the past 2 years can pull off a nuetral stance fine. >In short, you're autistic if you don't understand people can like things you don't.Pot calling the kettle black. Typical subjectanon. >>8570376Sure does sound like he's talking about remaking that original figure. Seems like they were even going to make the packaging on the new one similar to the original. You aren't helping your argument subjectanon.
>>8570375It's literally based on the original figure. If it wasn't why did Todd display the original along side the prototype KS? Why were the packaging going to be similar?
>>8570397thank you for confirming you're a troll who's just incredibly lonely
>>8570401Nice argument smooth brain. I accept your concession.
>>8570388>Even lines like Revoltechs that have a crazy amount of articulation can look downright hideos if you try and pose them neutrally.Pic unrelated I guess?>people still like preposed bullshit.No, they don't. There's a difference between sculpting/engineering figures to work well in dynamic poses and having a LITERAL PERMANENT SCOLIOTIC TWIST IN A FIGURE'S TORSO FOR NO REASON. It's the difference between a convertible car and a car with no bodywork. One's a matter of preference, the other is totally useless.>In short, you're autistic if you don't understand people can like things you don't.I can understand liking things I don't, I can't understand anyone liking- let alone spending that much money on- a figure made with engineering that was obsolete 15 years ago. Like, as a cheap novelty item like a ReAction figure maybe, but an expensive KS project? I'd want Revoltech-tier engineering for that price.
>>8570400>It's literally based on the original figure.>literally two different designsok retard.watch the interview and how he says he didn't like his 50-100 first figures and wants to update them all
>>8570410>I can't understand anyone liking...congrats on being autistic then.guy sold over 3 million dollars worth of toys to over 20,000 people who bought the preposed McStatue that Mcfarlane advertised.even when he said he'd look into adding another torso joint, it still kept that "sexy twist"
>>8570411You mean repainting it and adding swappable parts after the Kickstarter started? Shocking. Obviously he added shit like alternate paint jobs and a bunch of different prices. He's Todd McFarlane and likes to fly by the seat of his pants. You could tell by what a cluster fuck the actual KS was when people couldn't even figure out what tier got them what items. Just because he's included more accessories and variants after the fact doesn't mean that this wasn't originally based on the original Spawn figure. I mean why else talk about similar style packaging to the original one if it wasn't directly inspired by it?
>>8570422>ignoring mcfarlane's own comparison between the old and new figures to type a mountain of blahblahblahblahblahok retard
>Todd makes questionable decisions that some people dislike>subjectanon comes in and tries to justify those odd choices>gets mad and resorts to straw manning and throwing around insults when people call out his bull shit argumentsEvery fucking time. You do know Todd can't identify who you are in an anonymous image board right?
>>8570418>guy sold over 3 million dollars worth of toys to over 20,000 people who bought the preposed McStatue that Mcfarlane advertised.>even when he said he'd look into adding another torso joint, it still kept that "sexy twist"So there's 20,000 retards with bad taste and too much money, what else is new? It is objectively bad design. The fact so many people fell for this scam only proves that Spawn fans are either so starved for actually good figures that they'll buy whatever scraps come their way, or they've got such atrocious taste that they'd buy Todd's toenail clippings if he signed them.
>>8570427I already accepted your consession. No need to reiterate your lack of actual argument. You should really answer >>8570400 though. Why did he display the original at Toy Fair with the prototype? Why did he talk about homaging the original packaging?
>on the internet nobody knows you are a todd
>>8570388>Even lines like Revoltechs that have a crazy amount of articulation can look downright hideos if you try and pose them neutrally.Not really you're just autistic
>>8570442Kek, I propose we make this a thing.
>>8570455Motion passed. We will officially start calling idiots who suck Todd's dick so blindly reTodds. Subjectanon may be the most reTodded of them all.
>>8570460i mean i love the guy's work and mentality but lack of criticism is unhealthy, people have a right to have opinions
>>8570434>people are wrong to like toys i don't like>image of bandwagon fallacy where health issues stemming from cigarettes should be ignored because people like smoking>comparing opinions about toys people like to factual health issueslolyou deserve a medal
>>8570518way to take it uber literally subjectreTodd
>>8570388Did you intend to post an image contradicting your statement?
>>8570442Op here I take credit for this
Wait, so I'm confused. Subjectanon is defending a figure that looks awkward in a standing pose, despite that being his main criticism of Revoltech figures for years now? I guess it really is OK when Todd does it.
>>8570946Sorry, OP you don't get to claim credit just because you created the thread. That one is mine.
i'm witness that "retodd" was proposed by Anonymous and not "Anonymous"
Member when Subjectautist claims KS Spawn was as articulated as MK Spawn? Good times
>>8572022Or the time he argued with /co/ for 18 hours straight about whether or not Carnage had a mouth.
>>8564486>>8564754The Production figure will have a removable cape. It was in the KS and Shart mentions it in the comments of his review.
Why is the cape not cloth with a wire for posing? Wouldn't that be cheaper and better than a sculpted one with hinges?
>>8578126from what i understand todd hates cloth goods on figures, but even ignoring that it definitely wouldn't be cheaper to to make one that looks anything like the usual over the top capes spawn has.
>>8578126mcfarlane says that fabric on toys makes it dolls
>>8578155Has he seen 1/6 scale figures?
why does this kick starter matter? go buy the $20 MK Spawn
>>8578214I wish all the accessories that came with this KS Spawn were in its own pack and I would just add those to my MK Spawn. And it would be the most perfect Spawn figure in existence.
>>8578323have you considered going on twitter and asking him?
>>8578130>>8578155Cloth on plastic toys is indeed shit and makes them doll like.Except batman.I like cloth capes on batmans.
>>8578126Because McFarlane doesn't make toys for posing. He makes statues with joints to trick people who wanted toys into buying them
>>8578214most of the bitching comes from trolls, so it's mostly just nitpicking to create arguments.
>>8579334Are people criticizing with valid arguments is trolling just because you have buyer's regret?
>>8579367why does this kickstarter matter?
>>8579367Valid criticism is fine, but you have people here who are shittong on the figure that don't even know that the KS figure isn't actually a copy of the original figure and wasn't meant to be.Nevermind that guy said that why not just get the MK figure if you don't like the KS version? Their designs are pretty similiar, so everyone can be happy, right?Nope, because there's literally trolls in this thread that are just shitposting (like you are) thinking people are having buyer's regret for McFarlane to produce the McStatue he had been showing off for nearly a year and had shown it off every step through its production and how it will be on Kickstarter for an entire month before the KS ended.
>>8579474>Valid criticism is fine, but you have people here who are shittong on the figure that don't even know that the KS figure isn't actually a copy of the original figure and wasn't meant to be.Except it's directly homaging the original toy. Todd even had the original with him in his latest video showing off the KS packaging. Not sure where you are getting the idea the KS isn't homaging that original figure. >Nope, because there's literally trolls in this thread that are just shitposting (like you are) thinking people are having buyer's regret for McFarlane to produce the McStatue he had been showing off for nearly a year and had shown it off every step through its production and how it will be on Kickstarter for an entire month before the KS ended.So basically anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? I dunno man, that sounds sus to me.
>>8579493>didn't watch the video that was posted about him explaining his idea for the online/crowdfunded toysjust stop talking instead of making shit up.
>>8579505The one where he talks about homaging the original toy? This one? >>8570376 The one where he talks about putting the old and the new side by side? Why is he comparing the KS to the original if the KS isn't an homage? What relevance does the original have if the KS isn't homaging it? Why not compare it to any other pre posed Spawn figure?
>>8579525yes, the one where he said he'll revisit all the old figures to make them better, hence the KS being as different from the origina as the MK figure is to the KS figure.but again, you didn't watch anything and are just a shitposter.
>>8579541>yes, the one where he said he'll revisit all the old figures to make them betterYes, that's what homaging is. Glad you know the meaning of the word. This means you must understand that homaging something means referencing something from the past, not necessarily outright replicating it. The fact that the cape is still hinged like the original is outright pointed out to be an homage.
>>8579552so despite the fact that they literally ahve two different designs, ever since it was first shown off, you want to pretend it was supposed to be exactly the same just updated.can you be any crazier? Aside from the fact that you're literally just a shitposter anddoing this because you think anyone gets mad at stupid lies?
>>8579562>you want to pretend it was supposed to be exactly the same just updatedIt's funny to me that this is something you're now calling any criticisms "shitposters" for when this is how you were justifying all the shitty decisions while it was being funded.
>>8579562>so despite the fact that they literally ahve two different designsThe KS and the original figure? No they don't. They have a different sculpt but the actual design is the same. Todd has a repainted variant of the KS that has the modern color scheme and part swapping paces for the gauntlet and boot to make it a modern Spawn, but the paint job with the red and without the additional pieces has the same design as the original figure, down to how the cape functions...
>>8579576>same design>apart from the spikes>the chains>accessories>mask designmight as well pretend that this is the same design too https://is2.4chan.org/toy/1605700345484.jpgand im just repeating myself, because you guys are crazy shitposters who jsut want to argue
>>8579585What a strange horse to die on.
>>8579585Once again, an homage doesn't need to be an exact replica of the thing it's homaging.
>>8579613too bad mcfarlane didn't cail it that, otherwise you wouldn't be a shitposter who doesnt knwo what he's talking about and is making shit up just to argue.
>>8579625>figure is clearly based on the original one>has been shown alongside it as clear inspiration>NO IT'S NOT AN HOMAGE HE NEVER SPECIFICALLY SAID THE WORD HOMAGE
>>8579625>Everyone who disagrees with me is a shitposter>Despite me not being able to answer why Todd keeps comparing the KS Spawn with the original.Whatever you say subjectanon. You may just be the biggest reTodd of them all.
>>8579637>still ignoring the video because you don't actually care and are just shitpostingno shit?We're talking about a character who has had 320498324 reiterations and they're all slightly different from one another. This Spawn figure is no different.
>>8579664Where in the video does he say it isn't an homage? Why does he compare it to the original figure if it isn't?
>>8579666Don't bother, you're arguing with Subjectanon. Also checked.
>>8579666>prove a negativelolYou prove he said it's an homage.Again, you're nothing but a shitposter who doesn't really care about anything, otherwise you'd be quoting exactly what McFarlane said.The guy's shitting on retro shit throughout his video and talks about crowdfunding or doing an online store series just being based on his spawn series, and also his Dragons, and Tortured Souls, etc etc etc, because he has been asked for decades to continue all these series.Whereas your arguments have been a game of constant goal post movements >Todd literally said it's based off of the first Spawn figure. It's a literal remake of that original figureto>the one where he talks about homaging the original toyNevermind the fact the fact you dont know how comic book designs work.
>>8579696>You prove he said it's an homage.https://youtu.be/SUDTGtjlSFQ?t=92415:24>>Todd literally said it's based off of the first Spawn figure. It's a literal remake of that original figureI said it's an HOMAGE. I even pointed out how homages aren't direct replications of the thing they're homaging. You seem to be deliberately missing that part.>Nevermind the fact the fact you dont know how comic book designs work.Like how Carnage has a mouth?
>>8579736>doesn't say homage>says he'll reuse the old packaging>brand new sculpt>same hinged cape>from 13:50 - whenever it ends: about going back to their old series and restarting his dragon, souls, and spawn series and needing a new place to sell them at because stores won't>KS spawn is literally a different design from the original>not even based on Spawn #1 comic as on the cardback>still pretending its homagelolso not only are you a shitposter, but you're also desperate to prove nothing that you're trying to pretend is going on.just like how you pretend that carnage thread wasn't a loaded question and ignored all the posters that did agree with me when i pointedly asked them about the Maximum Carnage Carnage.
>>8579777>>doesn't say homage>>says he'll reuse the old packaging>>brand new sculpt>>same hinged capeThis, is an homage. I don't know why you can't wrap your head around it but it is. How is it not? The sculpt is new yes, and the chains and spikes may be slightly different, but that doesn't make it not an homage. I mean shit, the default accessory you get is the same fucking one that came with the original toy. >just like how you pretend that carnage thread wasn't a loaded question and ignored all the posters that did agree with me when i pointedly asked them about the Maximum Carnage Carnage.The thread was created using an image you yourself posted on /toy/ to try an argue your point. There was nothing loaded about it. Stay salty that /co/ btfo'd you for almost a full day straight. Here, I'll even post the link for you to remember.>>>/co/117798802
>>8579845>lies that Mcfarlane said it was an homage>posts link to specific time where McFarlane doesnt say anything about homage>continues to say it's an homage, while ignoring teh fact that Mcfarlane is considering it a restart of all his old linesdo you even know what an homage is?Or is this just more of your shitposting and you're only pretending to be retarded?Nevermind this is just your new goalpost movement from the earlier claim that it was a literal remake.If you want to continue your shitposting, you should at least say you meant something else. You have no shame in moving the goalpost, so just do it again, because you're just going around in circles now just like with your loaded question thread that you need to ignore that people agreed with me in it.
why does this kickstarter matter? I haven't received an answer to this.
>>8579916It matters about as much as any other Kickstarter, but it also happens to from an established toymaker. Could be setting a precedent for how toy companies can sell certain hard to sell products.
>subby while the piece of shit was being kickstarted>IT'S SHITTY BECAUSE IT'S AN HOMAGE! IT LOOKS THE WAY IT DOES AS A THROWBACK!>subby now>IT'S NOT AN HOMAGE NOBODY EVER SAID IT WAS AN HOMAGE IT DOESN'T LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THE ORIGINAL TOY SO IT'S NOT AN HOMAGE
Oh no that's terrible.
>>8579916It matters because Spawn toys won’t sell in stores, so it was a way to sell an articulated classic Spawn toy directly to consumers.
>>8579936This might have been a better point for him to make before having three releases of the MK Spawn all sell out almost immediately.
>>8579923like how ethan van schiver set a precedent for how indie comic book crowd funders should operate given he has made millions of dollars?>>8579936>Spawn toys won’t sell in storesexplain, the MK Spawn sells extremely well and has multiple variants.
>>8579925let's see how it wentSome guy claims it's supposed to be like the original Spawn, thus needed to be neutrally posed.There's no source on this and every single image and interview showed that McFarlane wants to restart his old lines due to demand.and this gets repeated for a while by your shitposters... and repeated... and repeated... and repeated and repeated, until the new goalpost was created to say it was supposed to be an homage, because apparently this is where your knowledge and argument endsNo proof.Just circles over the same tired argument without any proof, muchless knowledge about the character, toys, or anything McFarlane has said.
>>8579916>McFarlane says he's making a "remastered" high-end Spawn Figure, throws it on Kickstarter>it ends up accumulating roughly $3.45 million dollars, making it the most successful toy-related project on Kickstarter >For the price Todd is charging ($40 USD per fig) the offerings are very shabby, including but not limited to:>>The aforementioned twist in the waist>>Single-jointed elbows in 2020>>Only 4 extra hands when similarly priced figures these days come with at least 6 extra hands>>One or two exclusive accessories depending on which version you get, meaning if you want to get all the accessories you're gonna have to buy the same figure three times>>The fucking cape, jesus christ this fucking capeIf Todd's getting close to $3.5 million dollars for this thing he should have taken the criticism backers were giving when it came to the design of the figure.
>>8579923Mythic Legions exists anon. Those toys are fully posable. Are you a fucking retard? Is the efforts of Mauraders Gun Runners and Boss Fight studio gonna be in vain because McFarlane made a statue? Are these plunderlings gonna be statue now because Todd made 3 billion dollars?
>>8579958Damn, you sure seem mad a guy who worked hard for his dedicated following isn't taking orders from some anonymous smuck. Why can't you producing your own action figure kickstarter since you're such a genius? Is it really much easier to shit talk Todd over and over like it'll make a difference when he's on twitter? Why can't you fuck off to twitter and telll him everyday how shit this mcstatue is because it didn't fufill your wishes? Is the MK Spawn not good enough for your 1/12 tarded brain?
>>8579952That's a neat creature.I'll answer for that guy, because that isn't what it was for. This was a way to sell this specific figure because in what line could they sell it in? Todd had mentioned that retailers aren't often going to want to buy into a line that's a one-off, especially when there's no accompanying media or some such thing. The MK Spawn made it to retail because he was part of the MK line. All that said, we have 2 different Mandarin Spawn coming, one in Gold Label and the other we don't yet know, but it would make sense for it to be the start of a new Spawn retail line. He's also mentioned that the KS got his phone ringing, both for the Spawn movie, and probably from interested retailers as well.
>>8579964I don't care about Spawn as a series or McFarlane as a brand, I just find these threads entertaining because they attract low IQ people like SubjectAnon that try to defend a shit figure for the wrong reasons.
>>8579965why do you give a fuck about spawn? is he your baby? can you not, you know, move on and be happy with the MK Spawn? Its so fucking tiring seeing every Spawn thread on /toy/ devolve into the same fucking shit posting over a dumb fucking statue when so much more is out there.
>>8579964>Is the MK Spawn not good enough for your 1/12 tarded brain?McFarlane makes 1/10 scale toys you mongoloid
>>8579970I'm not sure your problem with the post you're addressing. There was nothing negative there.
>>8579972So does Neca, yet 1/12 tards treat them like they're 1/12.
>>8579952stores like target basically only want to carry toylines supported by popular media: hollywood movies, cartoons, and video games.The Spawn comics sell maybe 15,000 issues a month. So stores wont order a line based on the comic or any of McFarlane's old toylines.See this post for more info: >>8564557
>>8579992>The Spawn comics sell maybe 15,000 issues a monththat must be great, given how the comic book industry is fucking dead because of retards like this fat white man
>>8579997marvel and dc comics sell ~50k, but the more popular ones sell hundreds of thousands depending on what's going on.The Spawn 300 issue had a hundred thousand something sold, i believe, because it was a milestone issue.Most small publishers sell around 10k-20k, and even lower, along with all the indies.And who is that guy? Only fat guy i know who can be that old is John Byrne. What's he done lately that made shit dead?
>>8580009Marvel and DC comic books are fucking dead anon. The movies will follow suit.
>>8580015these fucks saturated the market and devalued a gold mine, i'll never forgive them for making what i once loved becoming a fucking bland and redundant bore that i can't escape in any corner of the internet.
>>8580021Who would these fucks be?
>>8580023idiots that think this game was a good idea.
>>8580023investors and shareholders wanting an exponential curve like their big brains showed them on powerpoint
>>8580028kek, they look like their self-knock-offs
>>8580015>This image againCapeshit movies are dying for a lot of different reasons (People not giving a fuck about the MCU after Endgame, oversaturating the market with MCU films/TV shows, WB's inability to make a good comic-book movie/franchise over the last decade), but the toys not selling is definitely not one of those reasons. Likewise, comicbooks are dying due to a constant push for new events every few months, constant reboots/Issue #1s/introduction of Legacy characters instead of actual new blood, but the real reason why comics are dying isn't because of toy sales or movie synergy or pandering to an audience that doesn't read comics. The real reason why comics are dying is because it's easier for a new reader to grab the first volume of a manga than it is to figure out what the best point to start reading Superman across his 80+ years of being in comics.
>>8580044>Capeshit movies are dying for a lot of different reasonsbecause the toys are ugly and shit?
>>8580047Did you even read the rest of my post, or are you just shitposting?Yes, the capeshit fad is in a decline in theaters right now (Partially due to the pandemic keeping people out of theaters currently), but there are way more factors involved before you even get to the toys. Disney and Warner Bros aren't going to stop making movies that rake in hundreds of millions of dollars for them just because a Walmart overstocked on a wave of figures.
>>8579910>do you even know what an homage is?Yes, we've established that numerous times in this thread. I thought you did too but apparently that itsn't the case.>Nevermind this is just your new goalpost movement from the earlier claim that it was a literal remake.I never typed the word remake myself. I always referred to it as an homage, but really at this point the two terms are pretty interchangeable, at least in terms of this Kickstarter.>You have no shame in moving the goalpost, so just do it again, because you're just going around in circles now just like with your loaded question thread that you need to ignore that people agreed with me in it.How was it a loaded question cum brain?
>>8580052capeshit toys always looked ugly, retard
>>8579956Keep sobbing you fat tub of lard. Or are you going to brag about underage female retail workers jumping on your dick. I guess we can add pedo to the list, right subjectanon?
>>8579991Rent fucking freeeeeee
>>8580059Alright, I can say the same for a multitude of other properties that have toys rushed out to meet a specific street date for them to hit shelves in time for their movies/shows (Transformers, Star Wars, etc). Super hero stuff is not the only guilty party here.You're still ignoring my claim that toy sales aren't an important factor as to why the capeshit trend is dying out.
>>8580066You're arguing with a dumb fat monkey, just drop it.
>>8580066Super hero stuff should fuck off and die.
>>8580009That's Dan Slott
>>8580056>plz continue my endless circle of shitposting claims without any proofagain, just move onto your next goalpost, because you're boring now.>>8580090ah. i forget why we're supposed to hate him.
>>8580103>ah. i forget why we're supposed to hate him.You must not be a Spider-Man fan
>>8580103>again, just move onto your next goalpost, because you're boring now.I've moved not a single goalpost. I've always said the figure was an homage based in the original! Figure. And you did too when it was being funded. >ah. i forget why we're supposed to hate him.Because you don't read comics. Pretty much anything aside from Superior is awful. And Superior was only good because of what a wild ride it was.
>>8580135sorry. manga is better and way more diverse
>>8579942You said it yourself, the MK Spawn. It’s not a Spawn line, it’s a Mortal Kombat line with Spawn on it. If this kickstart was successful (which it was) then mcfarlane can make others for other characters from spawn that stores won’t carry.
>>8580315It's just that Mandarin Spawn throws a bit of wrench in that, as the red one pretty clearly belongs to a Spawn line and wouldn't fit anywhere else. I think the KS Spawns will be relegated to characters too big for retail or pricier deluxe type releases (and also potentially breaking child safety laws for retail) like the upcoming metal armor and weapons Medieval Spawn.
>>8561253i will never understand you people. it's a beautiful sculpt and you want to cut it up with hideous articulation seams.no taste at all.
>>8580503taste is subjective, some people prefer having more poseability options
>>8580503It's a very average sculpt, and it's only ugly becase it wasn't engineered with articulation in mind. Statuefags have no taste, they like the most generic boring shit and don't even have the eye-hand coordination to play with toys.
>>8580531Statuefags can't even take interesting pictures, they're up there with hottoys fags in terms of dull.
>>8580503>doesn't appreciate engineeringbased tasteless smoothbrain
>>8580044Comics are dying because they're shit. 80+ years of the same shit made progressively worse over time. Capeshit needs movies, animation or Japanese adaptations to be good.
>>8580561Spot on, comics are a chore to read, they don't exploit the medium at all, walls of text with serviceable to mediocre to terrible art, even the best of the best are still just walls of slighly better text with slightly better art with so called "unfilmable" concepts. Whatever stories were good are now long gone and they're only regurtitated today by people with even less writing and drawing skill, not only capeshit, indie and euro comics are no better. To be fair, manga is headed there as well, but at least they reached the apex and maintained it of a good while, while Comics never really evolved as a medium.
>>8580561>>8580641i can't stand manga and anime. too much cringe in one package
>>8580648Both have highs and lows, and there's the cultural differences, but manga's highs are higher than comics', and in its current state, manga is much better.
>>8580641Probably helps that IIRC one of the smaller Japanese manga publishing houses has more artists signed up to them than the entirety of the American comic industry combined.
>>8580707Yeah, it's not a criticism toward the art form itself, more of a criticism towards the industry, writers and artists are for sure talented, but boy the comics industry is shit.And manga is probably better because of its borderline a sweatshop conditions and its murderous Japanese work ethic.
>>8580641Read more comics outside Marvel and DC.
>>8580715Like I said, indies and yuro are no better; it's either soap operas or off-brand capeshit but bloodier, american indies are even worse than the big two. Older yuroshit can be great tho,
>>8580503Just a reminder, most of the people who are hating on it are just here to troll, so don't take them seriously. There's a reason why this KS raised so much money and has as many backers as it does.
>>8581563>Anyone with taste is a troll, nobody could possibly take exception with a figure with a permanent twist in its torsoOK retard.
>>8581595>t. shitposter who has no idea McFarlane is rich because fans loved his McStatues and doesnt care anyway because he's just trolling
>>8581636>ReTodds>Having tasteLmaoReminder McFarlane can't even package his shitty figures with the right bases.
>>8580503Then just make it a faggy McStatue like the 1000 that killed Spawn at retail to begin with. The reason people threw all of that money at the Kickstarter wanted something like the modern McFarlanes but more high end. A weird in between isn't ideal for anyone.
>>8579970Wait wtf is that a custom? If not where can I get?
>>8583301>weird inbetween>KS literally showed what the articulation and accessories you could get before the KS endedI think you might be an ignorant child, but you can back out of the KS before the KS ends, so there were plenty of chances for a span of 30something days for everyone who didn't want a McStatue to back out without any consequences. Also, what's the 1000?AFAIK, KB and Suncoast's demise in the US is what led to the Spawn and other lines getting canceled.
>>8587266So there's lots of reTodds with no taste and too much money, gotcha.