Tell me about Jeff. Why does he retcon the lore?

>>90963664
Not another Jeff general…

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If you were playing a Lunar campaign which god would your character initiate to? I think Polaris would be neat as a minor war god.

>>90963761
Then tell me about Cragspider. I'm skimming through the Glorantha sourcebook at my FLGS. It says she became a spidermonster deity after completing an "impossible" Arachne Solara heroquest. Why was it impossible? Is she Solara's avatar or something now? Since when do heroquesters stay gods after their quest is over? Why would Glorantha's greatest deity honor a dirty tr*ll with such recognition and power?

>>90964093
There are no known Arachne Solara HeroQuests; she's generally not even a deity that can be approached for worship. So, whatever Cragspider accomplished took some crazy mojo just to set up for the attempt.
(Also, somebody takes the time to carve her story in 'foot-deep pictoglyphs across twelve miles of stone' under a mountain somewhere.)

Something I’ve seen in recent RQ posts on places like RPG.Net is they jump right in the deep in via RQRG and fail to understand that the game went from a straightforward if slightly complex set of myths and mythology to a deep and broad set of mythologies back to a hybrid where the core story from the 70s and 80s is correct but we pretend it isn’t and all the other cultures are also valid even though Chaosium hasn’t given one fig about them for 50 years.

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Going back on the few questions about Unlife and Zorak Zoran last thread, how are Zorak Zoran cultists able to create zombies, skeletons, and revenants without the undeath rune? Is the undeath rune only for “hungry” dead that need to feed on others (vampires)? If a spirit/ghost was put back into a corpse like in RQ3 are they undead without the rune or something different?

>>90965682
>where the core story from the 70s and 80s is correct but we pretend it isn’t
As long as Nick Brooke draws breath, there will always be at least some pushback to the old core story.
And to be fair to RQRG, I keep getting the impression that the book 'reads' less well than it plays, because every in-practice actual play I've heard about seems to feature people grokking the system and setting pretty well, while people talking about browsing through it have trouble grasping things.

>>90966058
I do think its interesting that gloranthan threads are one of the few generals where "grokking" is thrown out and mostly understood.

>>90964965
>There are no known Arachne Solara HeroQuests;

Lightbringers. Depending on your interpretation of GInna Jar either most of the deal or only the final parts.

>she's generally not even a deity that can be approached for worship.

There’s a shrine to her near Smoking Ruin.

So do Lunars have legal nobility? Or is it more of a rich elite where the same hyper wealthy families tend to be in key positions of power?

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Found this in my printings of old Different World articles. It the RQ2 Tiger cult which is for weretigers (Tiger-Sons) who get no mention beyond the occasion listing in old monster lists and were retconned as drifting from Kralorea since they decided saber-tooth cats are the feline apex predators in central Gernetelea.
This sort of can function as a loose guide for RQ2 Telmori and has a wicked cult Runespell that if Chaosium had bothered to think about, could have given us Mysticism about a decade or two earlier than RQ6”

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>>90966157
If you look at Tiger Claw, it turns a weak priest or initiate into a martial arts movie star.
This is by Steve Perrin too, the guy who came up with the rules for RQ and all of BRP by extension and Prax.

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>>90966165
The last thing to note is this cult does have Moon rune associations and sometimes is a secret police in some cultures.
That sounds like an excuse to run into them in the Lunar Empire or more obviously to run into them in Teshnos or Kralorea.

>>90965885
I think it comes down to some minor Chaos being a matter of social opinion rather than a truth of the universe. Trolls both commit cannibalism and reanimated their dead, and these are things that the orlanthi in particular think of as chaotic, but at the same time it is undeniable that the uz are some of the fiercest chaos-foes in the world.

The differences between obviously chaotic vivamort/nontraya/gark undead and somehow not chaotic zz undead haven't ever really been hammered out mechanically

>>90966146
there are large family houses or clans that have a hereditary higher status and privileges, almost always connected to a provable descent from gods, usually Yelm. These sort of families have been dominant in Dara Happa since the dawn, monopolizing city, temple and regional governances, but not always in line with a strict line of descent. Rulership is tied to the cult of Yelm, which only demands a patrilineal descent from another member of the Yelm cult.

Since the moonrise, these families have been effectively tied to the red emperor by mutual marriages, and many new families have started with a branch off moonson's family tree

>>90966217
It really comes down to the nature of the god granting you the rune spell. Sorcerous zombies aren’t chaotic either.

>>90966217
>>90966247
Makes me wonder if it has anything to do with him being Illuminated.

>>90966165
Following on from Tiger Claw, in another couple of articles I printed is the spoof god Indlas Somer. Whose creator is still active on Chaosium’s Discord channel.
They have a Runespell called K.O. (knockout), which is supposed to represent surfer dudes in movies fighting, but also easily doubles as a martial art move where they strike pressure points to disable limbs.
Apparently Zorak Zoran cultists on the beaches of the Holy Country can learn it and Summon Shark thanks to strong intercult ties.

>>90965885
If I remember correctly Zorak Zoran Undead are reanimated by the Disorder Rune, not the Chaos rune or Unlife rune.

>>90966399
>the Disorder Rune, not the Chaos rune

wtf is the difference

>>90966058
this has been my experience at the table.
we read the rules. they are confusing. we try it out until we figure it out. we realize it makes sense.
except for movement

Other Runequest/Gateway cults from Different Worlds:
The Three Feathered Rivals Cult - A recent fusion of settled Orlanthi ideas and Praxian theology. This would probably be a bunch of shamanist stuff in RQRG.
Apollo - Not that suitable as they left out Runelords because Greeks didn’t have them. Maybe reuse as a civilised god somewhere.
Gestetner - A chaos god and an extended spoof. Pretty much restricted to underground cults in literate societies.
Zelan the Beast - Would be a spirit cult in modern Runequest, this cult only works as Telemori or if you strip the Chaotic aspects, as a Huschen Revenge society.
Cult of the Tiger - Already discussed
Cult of Kali - Noted to be the pulp version, this is going to need lots of renaming and can function as any organised murder cult.
Cult of Erlin the Harper - Considering this guy mentions other Glorantha gods by allusion he probably already exists under a different name. If not he is mostly there for specialised rules and skills about musical instruments.
Indlas Sommer - fun cult to throw on any beach to remind people that RQ should not be all serious clan and myth stories.
Enuk Manamee, though RQ lists the Uncoilings as Huschen reindeer people, this guy fits on the contact zone between Peloria and the tundra people of the north. A Fire god of the regions adjacent to the White Sea.
Dionysus - No Runelords but could work as a more philosophical Orlanthi or Pelorian god in a civilised region.
Odin - Use as Vadrus or one of his sons, bit of everything leading to a kingly leader but also death.
Taigaluk the Hunter - Could easily replace with Foundchild but offers a regional variation for tundra to the North of Peloria and Pent.
Crom Cruach (White Dwarf) If goblins and orcs in Wyrm’s Footnotes were Chaos-mutated Trollkin/Trolls and removed except for their god, then this goblin god is just a Trollish god for mutated trollkin.
Kernu - Same thing.

>>90966678
You know the chaos from greek mythology? The primordial void. That is what chaos is.

>>90967711
Not really. That is just void. Chaos happens when void leaks into the universe.

Anyway, anybody ever used Loper People in his campaign, it’s such a minor yet oddly well developed part of the setting.

Rereading old Diff World mags has made me nostalgic for older RQ editions.
Since early RQ was built more on King Arthur and S&S than rigorously Bronze Age research. I’m trying to figure out how to use Pendragon 1E as a basis for higher-tier gameplay. Not going to look at Arms & Equipment, that’s inauthentic to the older editions and cheating since someone did the research already.
Some adjustments are needed. Knights are too common in Pendragon so there is enough to fill the theme. So they become mid-level warriors, what KoDP called Thanes/professional warriors. The people with nice gear and may be initiates since RQ2 had much lower numbers of initiates. Going to have ditch squires as a concept otherwise there are too many.
1 tenant family farms 1 hide or herd so you get minimum 10 families of I assume 5 people to get a Baronet. Who has a minimum of 10 hides and 3 Knights plus himself. That is 50 people and 4 professional warriors. That’s like Apple Lane. Now Drolanth Swordsharp was the “Thane” of Apple Lane in RQRG but called the Sheriff in RQ2. So the actual term doesn’t matter much.
This led to the next issue. Pendragon measures urban population and taxes by POP, with 1POP being 480 people. That’s too much for Glorantha so we need to adjust it down. POP and hides make the same amount of money so you can’t have them be more people than 5 and are just going to have to represent specialised craftsmen.
So a Thane/Baronet with 10 Hides and POP of 2 has 50 farmers and 10 craftsmen in his stead/market village and has to split up the hides with his 3 warriors. Maybe he controls 6 hides and the profit of the 2 POP craftsmen, two of his warriors each have 2 hides each to support them and he pays for the third out of his pocket.

>>90968217
The problem is you have somewhere 0 to x5 men at arms as there are knights. If the Fyrd is maybe 1/5 so 1 per family then you could somehow end up with more men at arms than families.
So treating the number of men-at-arms as the amount you call up for the fyrd simplifies this. If the fyrd outnumbers the 1/5 ratio then you’ve probably got Vingans and bold younger brothers/sons but losses are going to be crippling. In less than 1/5 then you’ve got lots of poor families and you hire mercenaries or splash some cash around. The Pendragon rules do say you can recruit men at arms equal to hides and POP per year but that seems really high regeneration.
This all comes down to money.
Pendragon measures things in Pounds but we need to convert that to Lunars.
RQRG does list its own thing for wealth, generally saying about 80L per hide worked split 40L between tenant family and administrator each. And a free family needing about 60L and a noble needing 200L.
That sort of dovetails with what I had thought where one hide income was 10 Wheels in RQ2 money, 200L. Now Pendragon assumes a much more exploitable form of taxation where the lords gets it all. We can keep it as simple by saying it’s the lords share and not go into detail. Since prices in RQRG generally were slashed by a factor of 4 or 5. But mostly because 20 shillings to a pound was used for Lunars and wheels. That gets 10% for the Earth temple (church tax) and 10% to the clan (RQRG said this is a storm cult temple tax but I think they are the same).
Since Pendragon splits the wealth up by land vs industry, you could just take 10% of both.

>>90968222
So Sheriff Beren the Tester (formerly Baronet Tester) controls 10 hides, 2 POP and gets 1d6 Pounds yearly from tolls on a bridge. He has 3 knights.
He has 60 people working for him and 3 professional warriors he has to keep happy. He commands (1d6-1) 5 x 3 = 15 members of the fyrd consisting of tenants, nephews and brothers. A call up and major battle could kill most of the population. Every year he in total makes 2000L in agricultural surplus which he pays 200L to the the Earth Temple and 600-1600L in material goods and tolls which he pays 60-160L to the clan and the Chief. Theoretically the 1800+ L surplus is redistributed around the clan and most of it goes back to him to keep him happy but that’s a pain to simulate.
There is probably a bunch of other Pendragon things he has to do but that’s a rough idea.

>>90967740
The void is still Chaos, and is the highest goal of Chaos.

What’s wrong with Chaosium’s Discord?
It just feels like a blank wall for dumb questions are Lore posting. But so does /tg/ RQ threads.

>>90968711
> dumb questions and Lore posting
And we like it that way.

>>90968785
Not true, sometimes I make posts about editions people don’t play anymore.

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>>90968711
dont forget reposting memes

>>90966247
>Sorcerous zombies aren’t chaotic either
So if Delecti were a Zzaburi rather than a vampire, he wouldn't technically be considered Chaos?
Not that this would help him with the local durulz, but still.

>>90966732
>any organised murder cult
Thanatar? Humakt? Babeester Gor? Zorak Zoran? Storm Bull? Or are those not quite the direction you meant?

This is going to sound like a weird nitpick, but it's something that's always confused me.
So, there's four different 'approaches' to understanding the world of Glorantha - Theistic, Shamanistic, Humanistic, and Mystic. (Genertela divides neatly into quarters containing these beliefs; or at least, it did at one point.) From Theistic, you get Rune Magic, from Shamanistic, you get Spirit Magic, from Humanistic, you get Sorcery, and from Mystic, you get (in theory) Mysticism.
I've never played around with earlier versions of RuneQuest; I came in during the HeroQuest days, and never looked at RQ6, so I have no idea to what level the rules supported Sorcery and Mysticism. But clearly, from RQRG, the idea has become that Rune Magic and Spirit Magic are fairly blended (ie, people have access to both), Sorcery is complex and not very conducive to player characters, and Mysticism is written off, as 'getting cool powers' runs contrary to the mystic goal of severing ties with reality.
On one level, this all makes sense, but, on the other level, does this mean that Humanistic and Mystic cultures don't have access to the same abilities that Theistic cultures do?
Like, in the west, does everyone just live out mundane lives without the aid of Bless Crops or Bladesharp, and call in a Zzaburi if they need magical might? In the east, do they talk a big game about enlightened detachment, but then just dip down to the local temple to worship as normal?
In a world where it's a fairly casual action to ask a spirit to make your blade a bit sharper, it's good to know who does and doesn't have access to that sort of ability.

>>90970084
Renaming battle magic "spirit magic" was incredibly unhelpful. Think of it as minor sorcery and it works exactly the same way. Shape your vital energy in a specific way to achieve a consistent result.

>In the east, do they talk a big game about enlightened detachment, but then just dip down to the local temple to worship as normal?
Yes. Achieving spiritual enlightenment is a thing other people do so you don't have to.

As to specifically how people use magic in the west, that has been an battle of opinion for decades. There is no explanation for the current edition. So pick yourself if you want to play there.

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>>90966678
>Illuminates are fond of stating such things as "Chaos is necessary to creation," or "You cannot have law without unlaw, or light without darkness, hence one must have Chaos as well," or the infamous "just as when you stare into absolute darkness you see nothing, so when you stare into absolute light, you see nothing." All these ploys are naked attempts to make Chaos, or at least bits of it, acceptable to the world. They are wrong. Chaos is not the same as destruction. Chaos is not necessary to creation. Chaos is not the antithesis to "Law". Chaos is oblivion.

>>90969455

Here's a fresh one for you.

>>90971158
Not remembering Hero Wars-era stuff, what's the actual name of the god on the right? Kargzant?

>>90970676
So really, it's best to think of it as 'in the early days, how people saw the world is also how they drew power from the world, but over time, Greg and co disconnected these concepts from each other'? That's simple enough.

>>90970676
The commoners grant their MPs to sorcerers to allow them to exceed INT limitation on size of spell.

>>90951343
>they were humans who teamed up with darkness to survive the darkness. it is said they have some shapechanger magic maybe?
Kitori gain the runespell Become Other through the Nightcult (probably an Argan Argar subcult). It lets a non-troll become a troll or a troll become a human. The ffect last from sunset to sunrise or sunrise to sunset.

>>90966142
>There’s a shrine to her near Smoking Ruin.
Doesn't mean that she listens. She's the kind of goddess that you can worship and sacrifice all you want but she won't return anything. Those with a connection to Arachne Solara like Cragspider or Sedenya seem to have gained it through experimental heroquesting to meet her in person.

>>90965885
Seeing how Zorak Zoran is fond of stealing stuff it wouldn't surprise me if he stole the power to raise the dead from Chaos, butmade it his own way. Undeath rune undead need to feed while most other forms of undead are maintained by magic.

>>90966678
Disorder is when you break a pot. Chaos is when the source code of the pot glitches and deletes it.

>>90971662
A lot of the myths and philosophy of Glorantha started as objective truth then got reassigned to either the opinions of the Westerners or Orlanthi later.

>>90972642
I can kinda understand Zorak Zoran stealing the powers of undeath when fighting against chaos, but him putting in the effort to change or rebuild how undeath works doesn’t seem to fit well with a god described as “a mindless explosion of fear and frenzy“. I think it’s more a little likely that undeath, while certainly arose from the chaos of the Great Darkness (no pun intended) it’s not something entirely chaotic, there are other ways to come back from the dead or avoid dying after all.

>>90973517
It might also have to do with the connection between Darkness and Death.
There's no mythic difference between 'in the underworld' and 'dead' when it comes to surface gods, and their descriptions.
So, the place where troll gods naturally live is already full of the dead, without needing to put any effort in. Exactly how that works, I dunno.

>>90973637
>There's no mythic difference between 'in the underworld' and 'dead' when it comes to surface gods, and their descriptions.

My personal favorite is the version of the LBQ where Humakt "shows Orlanth how to reach the underworld".

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Some days I lean back and wonder what the consequences of Kyger Litor being pregnant will be.

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>>90967740
I'm actively using the Loper people in my current campaign. A player of mine rolled Darkness, Moon, and Water for her runes and liked the idea of Annilla but it we couldn't figure out how she could have gotten into that cult. Then it struck me that the Loper people, being devotees of the Goddess of Secrets, being capable of invisibility and teleportation, being infamous for their stealth and ambushes, and being generally considered extinct except for persistent rumors of sightings in distant places, could still exist as a sort of Hide-Behind people. They're nomads who live just out of sight of the rest of human civilization, living invisibly in parallel to the settled peoples, drifting from place to place covering their tracks so well most people will never even catch a fleeting glimpse and those that do assume they're imagining things. They live by stealing and raiding in the dead of night but maintain their ancient religion and their Lopers.

>>90971158
And yet the Chaosium is the absolute font of raw creation from which the world is even still being continuously created and renewed.

>>90971631
i think its elmal

>>90970084

The empires, kingdoms and sorcery of the West are objectively stronger to the theistic magic of cenral Genertela.

Mysticism summons giants dragons that made the Dara Happans their bitch.

How that gradient of powers would translate to game mechanics is fuzzy, because of the fucked up power levels described in the lore. I imagine an extremely powerful westerner like Arkat would be basicaly the Elric of Melibone of Glorantha without the disease hampering him. I always thought the Chaosium Stormbringer books could translate well into a Westerner sourcebook. But it never happened because of Chaosium's tumultuous history.

>>90974098
Me too brother. Me too. Another new god? Or maybe a demigod/avatar? Can the gods even have kids after the cosmic compromise?

>>90975320
That would be the joke yes.

>>90976660
>The empires, kingdoms and sorcery of the West are objectively stronger to the theistic magic of cenral Genertela.

Sorcerer can cast spell as long as he has MPs.. Single casting of sorcerous analogue of Bless Crops will likely be significantly weaker than the theistic version, but the sorcerer can get it off potetnialy daily, or even hourly if he taps something.

In some unused rules for Sorcery, which languished for the entirety of RQ2 until they were rewritten for what became RQ3.
Sorcery spent no temporary or permanent POW on spells. Instead they could cast Runespells with a successful General Sorcery roll or Ceremonial magic roll. With the catch that General Sorcery was nearly as expensive to level up as the General Knowledge Skill and gates so you needed 25% to cast 1 POW Runespells, then 50% and 75% for 2 and 3 POW.
Ceremonial Magic added +5% to this chance but took 1 hour per 5% and was capped at your current Ceremonial Magic skill.

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Casinotown supplement when?

>>90976660
>Mysticism summons giants dragons that made the Dara Happans their bitch.
But the Murder Astronaut conquered the East and was only beaten by the Lunars.

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>>90970084
>Like, in the west, does everyone just live out mundane lives without the aid of Bless Crops or Bladesharp, and call in a Zzaburi if they need magical might?
You have to keep in mind that "the west" is a very broad category and malkionism is likewise a very varied hodgepodge compared to most theist religions since they don't have the luxury of just asking the gods directly for guidance.
Among the hardcore humanists like the brithini and the rokari then yes, the zzaburi does all the magic, that is their assigned job.
Among the less orthodox, but not heretical, malkioni that's not the case, with some casts having their own magic. Dronars, unless specified they can not have magic, usually dabble in spirit magic as spirits are everywhere and you don't need to be a shaman to bargain with them. Horali have warrior societies which provide battle magic by emulating heroes, how exactly they differ from cults lorewise is unclear but mechanically will probably be the closest equivalent (some hero specific spells can be found in Red Book of Magic, like Humor for Talor the Laughing Warrior and Flamesword for Gerlant Flamesword). Talars in the meanwhile are allowed to worship their ancestors and use them as a repository of knowledge relevant to their work (the Trader Princes abuse this as Issaries is an ancestor of theirs and thus can legally worship him by malkioni law).

>In the east, do they talk a big game about enlightened detachment, but then just dip down to the local temple to worship as normal?
While mysticism is the most prevalent in the east it's ultimately something only dabbled in by mystics, monks, nobility and heroes. Your average kralorelan farmer won't know shit about draconic mysticism and will worship the rice goddess and set a bowl of food for their ancestral spirits as usual.

>>90976660
>Mysticism summons giants dragons that made the Dara Happans their bitch.

admittedly there is the minor cost of "having your entire civilization devoured by dragons" but who's counting

>>90982847
To be fair they had it coming.

>>90981574
Wasn't Murder Astronaut a mystic who got kicked out and took over the nomads?

>>90985229
Not quite. He was a Pentan Nomad that attempted to invade the Dragon Empire in the East and lost. He got captured and enslaved by the Dragon Emperor, but after 100 years of torture was achieved enlightenment and was offered a choice: Freedom or the World.
He chose the world.

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Why is Valind so powerful? I don't think he has many worshipers, and yet Valind's Glacier is huge and most of Genertela suffers winters.

>>90985975
And the funny thing is that Valind is kept weak for centuries by the Lunars doing heroquests to beat the shit out of him.

>>90985975
So is Vinga Orlanth in drag or his daughter via parthenogenesis?

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>>90985975
>On the Storm chart, Voria is listed as Ernalda and Orlanth's child
>On the Earth and Solar charts, Voria is listed as Ernalda and Yelm's child
What did they mean by this?

>>90986108
Depends on the particular Orlanthi culture.
Sartar now leans towards 'female aspect of Orlanth', but the Storm book acknowledges that other people treat her as a daughter, and that her cult is sometimes more independent.

>>90986108
Yes

Depends what stories your community tells, or what cult secrets you know.

>>90986160
This resolution is fucked. Post a better one!

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>>90985975
I assume both because he accumulated a huge amount of power during the Lesser and Greater Darkness, literally in the sense that his glacier is thousands of years of snow piled up, and probably because the propitiatory worship he gets from people trying to keep hard winters away. He's like Xentha in that regard.

>>90986108
Vinga was originally his daughter but there was a more recent push for her to be a female aspect of Orlanth.

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>>90986250

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>>90986408

>>90986260
Valind did nothing wrong.

>>90986325
It was Jeff wasn't it? What's with that guy?

>>90986160
God damn who hasn't Ernalda had kids with?

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>>90986260
That's basically it yeah, ages of building the glacier and propriative worship, though he has a dedicated base of human and troll worshippers. Even the famous Kalikos heroquest that keeps him at bay ultimately gives him power, which is why when the Kalikos quest finally fails his winter hits like a freight train.

I imagine everyone who cares about winter provides some worship to Valind.

Even a Sacred Time ritual about spring coming still incorporates "winter is real big" as part of the cycle.

Plus he gets a slice of all sacrifices to air (aka orlanth religion) since he's an aspect of that.

Greg answered a similar question about ZZ once, which might help

>Zorak Zoran is a good example to illustrate the phenomena of enemy gods in a pantheon. In pantheistic worship, all of the deities in a particular pantheon are “fed” by the sacrifices to anyone in the pantheon, even when the sacrificer is a devotee or priest of a particular deity. Thus, a worshipper of the Celestial pantheon may sacrifice only to Lodril, but Lodril in effect “shares his worship” with everyone that he is associated with, such as Oria, his sons and daughters and even his enemies. This is the nature of pantheism. Zorak Zoran thus receives worship whenever any of the trolls engage in communal worship. Furthermore, he gets plenty of propitiatory worship in his own right. Everyone who is afraid of him makes some sacrifices to keep him away, essentially by “buying him off.” [This includes not just trolls, but anyone else who lives near where he or his worshippers are active.]

>Finally, he even gets power when he is defeated by his enemies. He is necessary to the nature of the world, and thus gets some sacrifice for it.

>>90987522
>Even the famous Kalikos heroquest that keeps him at bay ultimately gives him power
How so?

>>90987875
Oops, I see this answers my question.
>Finally, he even gets power when he is defeated by his enemies. He is necessary to the nature of the world, and thus gets some sacrifice for it.

>>90987293
The goddesses

>>90987641
Supposedly Valind has a shrine in almost every Orlanth temple, or atleast the ones located where cold, snowy winters are a thing. Lightbringers emphasize that they both have a more rivalish relationship than bitter enemies as some previous works implied.

>>90989175
Valind is a kinslayer and a villain. He is only acceptable as Orlanths thrall

>>90989352
Who did he kill?

>>90990723
well, death was not around yet...

>>90989352
If Orlanth had Ragnaglar executed for rape of Thed a lot of bad events would have been avoided. Perhaps he killed some relative of his who deserved it and his exile is the softest possible.

>>90991099
If he outlawed rag algae and then had humakt kill him it wouldn’t even have been kinslaying.

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did you help him?

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>>90986160
Orlanth is posing as Yelm, Dendara as Ernalda.
Yes, it's difficult to keep the world afloat.

>>90989175

Most Heortlings propitiate Valind on Tribute Day, one of the moving Holy Days that falls on the first day of winter. He has a small cult in its own right, but his followers have to live on the fringes of Heortling society because the cult forbids recognizing normal authority.

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>>90993641
outlaws, bandits and crazy survalists

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So did Rashora become Rashorana? And was He/She still killed by Ragnaglar, Malia and Thed? I recall this from the old Hero Wars: Glorantha Introduction to the Hero Wars book. Is this still all cannon? In the new Prosopedia it says that Rashorana "was either last of
the gods made or the first Chaos deity
created' So she would predate the Unholy Trio doing the whole Chaos ritual. BUt in the God Time events happened at once since there was no time. Also why did the Unholy Trio kill Rashorana? Power?

>>90995889

It made it into the Guide, so it's still canon:
>One god who lived at this time is said to be the last born of the Young Gods or the first Chaos deity created. He was called Rashoran, and none know his parentage. At first Rashoran went about calming the frightened gods, teaching them to be unafraid. It is said that of all the cosmos only he did not fear what he did not know. He taught this knowledge to some of the other gods; most of them succumbed to the Darkness without a struggle after learning from Rashoran, though a few seem to have been fortified, such as Humakt and Uleria. Three others found that they were not afraid, and that they could use the fears of others to their own ends. One of the first things they did was to destroy Rashoran to keep his secret to themselves.
>These murderers were the Unholy Trio. Hatred, selfishness, greed, and jealousy motivated them. These short-sighted emotions are now considered to be symptoms of Chaos in the world, and they were originated by the three, who concentrated their forces and wills to create something new.

Was the city of Alone ever fully detailed like say New Pavis? Or is my best bet the area gazetteer in the Pegasus Plateau

>>90996043
>Illumination leads you to decide nothing matters, resulting in self-destruction
>Illumination helps you get a greater 'perspective' of the world, but you ultimately use it to support your place int the world.
>Illumination is a cheat code, which you use to manipulate chaos to do whatever you want whenever you want
Yeah, basically the three major results of Illumination, all existing right there in the God Time.

>>90996043
This event is actually something you can see in the Lights Going Out game.
And you can have a noble get Illumination from it.

>>90996043
>>90996216
What I always found interesting is that the effects of Rashoranian Illumination sounds very similar to the Star Heart from Orlanthi Initiation.

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>>90996137
behold, in all its glory

>>90996305
Kino. Thanks.

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>>90996137
I have a hq era alone, and another map with local surroundings outside the walls. It doesn't match up with that new in-progress map though

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>>90998896

>>90996247
give tips to activate the illumination questline

What’s are some good cults for an executioner? I guess Humakt but who else.

>>91000736
what culture?

ZZ
Shargash
Maran/Babeester Gor
Valind maybe

Old pelorian joke: traveller from Alkoth goes on trip to Raibanth, gets into brawl with guards over littering, sentenced to death.

Goes home.

>>91000875
I dont get it but lol

>>91000778
Whagt about Waha?

>>91000941
I don't see the connection. As I understand it, Waha is a generic male cult everyone joins in Prax, kind of like Orlanth in the Orlanthi lands. He might be a warrior god, but I think he's more associated with virility than he is with death.

>>91001063
Waha is god of butchers/slaughterers, is probably the logic here

>>91000918
Alkoth is in hell, the underworld, where to go if you die.

>>91001108
well are you gonna eat the guy?
no?
doesnt apply then.
In any case, socities like that dont have excecutioners. they outlaw people.
The Lunar empire and maybe Pavis has excecutioners.

>>91001570
>In any case, socities like that dont have excecutioners. they outlaw people.
It is not uncommon for such societies to kill someone after outlawing them. Certainly they always outlaw them beforehand if they are to be out to death. Of course with the Orlanthi it is almost always going to be a Humakti that does the killing in that circumstance anyway, as Humakti sever their family ties and thus can never cause kin-slaying.
Waha isn’t just the god of butchers though, he is the generally leadership god for the Praxans, their khan god. But he is so broad to them that he wouldn’t be the “executioner god”.

>>91001753
once a person is outlawed they are no longer kin, so they can be killed by anyone. Humaktis might be the coldest dudes in the clan so they are thus more likely to do it.

>>91000778
>ZZ
>Shargash
>Maran
It is interesting that these three all have the same Runes, except for their Elemental Rune.
Gagarth is the same rune combo but for Air too.

>>91001782
>once a person is outlawed they are no longer kin, so they can be killed by anyone
Yeah that is what I had thought but wasn’t certain if I was misremembering.
Orlanth really should’ve outlawed Ragnaglar earlier. But I guess with Ragnaglar, with his failed initiation, wasn’t really a proper adult so normal laws had trouble dealing with him in addition to Orlanth’s obvious family favoritism.

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>>91001824
oh man, I didnt even consider the fact that ragnaglar was a shota.
Man, that whole situation sure is fucked up. Hope Ragnaglar and Thed never gets jeffed

>>91001869
On the one hand, Prosopedia lists Thed as 'Mother of Broos' and 'Wife of Ragnaglar', avoiding the whole 'goddess of rape' thing. And their Bestiary entry does some amazingly deft tap-dancing around the idea of sexual assault. ('Don't worry, they don't kidnap people to rape them, they'd much rather just fuck your cow and run away.') And Thed is just a 'jealous goddess' who doesn't want female followers, but is otherwise undescribed there.
On the other hand, the Mythology book gives the 'Orlanth and his brothers' myth the ways it's always been given before, with Ragnaglar's madness being the result of the Sex Pit.
Gonna have to wait for the Chaos book to see how they thread that needle in the modern publishing landscape. (Not a decision I envy.)

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>>91002028
People sure are cowardly these days.

>>91002028
Broos prefer cows and sheep because they're easier to abduct and rape, that's the implication in the Beastiary. They don't need to kidnap humans, they just also can and do abduct humans.

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why is there so little glorantha fanart compared to other games?

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>>91001753
I think I can see Waha being an executioner in the sense he's the lord of death on the plains. He separates the living and the dead (of the herd-beasts) with the peaceful cut. I don't know how Praxian 'justice' works though, but I'd guess that if someone has to be killed as a point of reinforcing the social order then Waha is not far from the decision.

>>91001824
Orlanth's mistakes when it comes to Justice do form part of his whole mythic cycle. Orlanth broke the world so he ended up having to then go and fix it. Yelm wasn't the only victim of his fucking about, just the most important. After Yelm comes the judgement of Thed's rape, which creates rape as an eternal threat in the world. Yelm wouldn't have stood for that shit he would have Sun Speared his brother if he had to.
Orlanth did do some good as King of the Universe of course, perhaps most notably defeating the Sky Terror which is probably why he's friendly with Polaris, an outlier among the Sky Gods. Of course we all know about the Lightbringers Quest, which justifies his rule through his humility, abasement towards the universe and his effort and suffering.

>>91002466
Oh, it's 100% more practical for them, and always has been, but I just find it interesting the way they phrase the portions of the sections to try and minimize the possibility of sexual assault as much as possible.
(Of course, at the same time, the Red Book of Magic still has that Morokanth spell for changing 'Herd' to 'Non-Herd', and vice versa. I feel like, when people talk about the bits of the setting that make them uncomfortable, Broo and Morokanth have always been the two things at the top of the list)
Not that I'm throwing judgment, or calling it 'cowardly', or anything, it's just interesting to see the decisions made.
(See also, watching Paizo have a big old meltdown because they left slaves in their equipment lists without ever thinking about it, and then plunging ahead in the RQ equipment guide to provide slaves, but actually have a big ol' sidebar about it as well.)

>>91002905
>Yelm wouldn't have stood for that shit he would have Sun Speared his brother if he had to.
I don’t know about that, were there ever any examples of such a thing? It seems Solar tellings just have Yelm prefer a perfect stasis of absolute rule where none of his subjects ever disobeyed and thus no such punishment was needed, with all that instead coming from outside forces such as Umath and the Storm Tribe. Had water already invaded the sky by that point (as much as a point can be in timeless godtime) or was that post-tell too?
The only one I can think that might’ve qualified was Shargash but even he seemed to have been a willing follower of Yelm’s will that only went mad after his death, though Shargash did have the title of rebellous terminous prior to solars designating Orlanth as such during Gbaji’s Bright Empire when the pantheons were blended.

>>91002905
With Waha having previously had the Mastery and Death runes, being the god of khans and lord of death in Prax I suppose it could make sense for his cult to see to both the pronouncement of death and the carrying out of such a pronouncement. But Waha is so universal in prax that it is like saying that initiate of Orlanth kill people in Orlanthi culture. Or at least that is my understanding, although I also recall the Orlanthi custom of having EVERYONE initiate makes them a bit weird compared to other cultures.

>>91001869
>>91002096
>accidentally stumbling into a player’s magical realm
Anon, no

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>>91003404
your consent in this matter is not required.

>>91002918
>Slavery in Glorantha is nothing like the modern concept of slavery. It is never based on race, religion, or ethnicity. Instead, it is the product of being in debt, criminally prosecuted, or becoming a prisoner of war.

I guess all that stuff about race based slavery in the Guide doesn't exist then. Good news for the blueys in Fonrit I guess.

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>>91003495
>Instead, it is the product of being in debt, criminally prosecuted, or becoming a prisoner of war.
thats also most of real life slavery.

>>91003518
Don’t worry Spartans, Helots aren’t real, they can’t hurt you.

>>91003072
It is the role of the emperor to hand out good justice.

>A man was troubled by quarrelling between his wives. Murharzarm ruled that henceforth a man must have only one wife, and that the punishment for bigamy was to have multiple wives.

>>91003495
>It is never based on religion
Uh, that is really Ompalamiphobic??? Cancel this book!

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>>91003604
tfw the yremoved the kitori helots from Sundome vantaar because of modern day bullshit

I do find it weird to defend including slavery in your setting by saying
>Oh don't worry, it's not the BAD kind of slavery

"Racism bad, slavery OK" is a very strange position to stake out. It's not a huge deal or anything, but it does stick out a bit.

But if you wanted to pick at stuff I'd start with the prevalent love for the concept of the koryos - which is entirely nazi pseudoscience with no basis in fact.

>>91003682
weird that native americans had those then.

>>91003607
An old joke but in this case it serves to illustrate the stasis of the solar age.
>There is a problem
>The solution is to say don’t do it with the punishment for doing so being the thing you did itself
Yelm was wrong to not recognize Umath’s right to exist and have a place in the world.

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>>91003607
is this proof Yelm has a sense of humor?

>>91003700
fascinating that it travelled across the atlantic from neolithic europe

"Young men like to do violence in groups" is not evidence of a globe spanning continuous tradition responsible for colonisation practices. Not even when you include such stunning ideas as "some people like animals" or "these two words from a thousand years apart (that I made up by guessing) sound kind of similar if you really stretch it".

>>91003769
wait a second. Young men band together to take wealth, women and land from other people in prehistory is nazi propaganda?

>>91003682
>Koryos is totally bullshit
It isn't. We see this sort of thing in a variety of indo-european culltures, where young men undergo an initiation and are grouped together for war or other activities. Sparta did it in an extreme example of the practice, we see it in literary records, in historical records of the migratory period and even in archeological evidence from the bronze age (roaming groups of mercenaries and young men who criss-crossed Europe. The debate is very much 'how and why was it done' not 'was the warband isn't a consistent thing across indo-european cultures'. The question is if it's some universal phenomenon and a general human cultural practice vs strictly indo-european.

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>>91003827
>>91003769
If we are gonna do debateclub we better see some sources.

>>91003768
Well he did laugh at Orlanth’s bagpipes, though he didn’t realize that was the point of them and that Orlanth was only PRETENDING to be retarded.

>>91003495
Fonrit is a modern society not a traditional barbaric slave state. Any blueskin can pull herself by her own bootstraps. The fact that so few do is nothing but personal failure, not institutional racism. Statistics show that 80% of priest-kings started at the bottom or near it and got where they are by hard work and dedication.

>>91004219
top kek

Speaking of slavery definitions...
>Trying to figure out what Grazelander women do for professions
>Look online
>find this old thread: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/15465-grazelander-lifestyle/
>Jeff explains that vendref aren't enslaved thralls, they're just two mostly-harmonious castes with a mutually-beneficial relationship
>Does his usual condescending response of 'you shouldn't be relying on old material!'
>OP points out that, yeah, RQG doesn't portray it as outright slavery, but it's still very exploitative, and doesn't match what Jeff just said, despite being the most recent info on Grazers
>Nobody responds to this.
I swear, I want to like Jeff, but there's a lot of unforced errors.

>>91004654
Jeff wishes to be the Mask of Greg, taking up the mantle if repeatedly changing shit based on his whims at the time and denying anything prior was right if it goes against anything in his head that day.

>>91004654
they are trying very hard to be, well, PC

>>91001793
Yeah the only element without Death/Disorder god is Water, who has Wachaza instead and replaces Disorder with Darkness. Presumably this is partly because Water makes Disorder sort of redundant, in an oblique way, and because Wachaza is more of an emotionless, remorseless force of nature than a slavering berserk.

>>91003639
So was Sheng Seleris’s god Jolaty the same god as Ompalam? They both seem to teach that Life is Slavery.

>>91004871
It seems like Water gets treated like a forgotten pantheon in general compared to the others, perhaps due to having less potential for human interaction on account of being in the water.

>>91004911
It's more that water by its very nature if it isn't in harmony it is in disorder. It goes where it wishes to flow and flexes and bends around things.

>>91004409
How much does the lunar blue moon cult care about Artmal?

>>91005005
>It's more that water by its very nature if it isn't in harmony it is in disorder. It goes where it wishes to flow and flexes and bends around things.
That isn’t harmony vs disorder, that is Movement vs Stasis. But even that isn’t inherent, it is a separate rune from water itself.

As long as we are asking questions, what is going on with Godunya? He is the dragon emperor of the east… but he is a god and current holder of the Dragon Rune? That seems pretty important for a guy still walking around inside time.

>>91005368
have you ever tried telling a dragon what to do?

>>91005110
It doesn't really at all. The Lunar/Troll Blue Moon cult only worships Annilla and appears to have started after she was destroyed and the big chunk became the Plateau in the Great Darkness so they don't have much if any connection to the human Artmali, though probably know a fair bit about them and their secrets.

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>>91005368
The True Dragons that live in the world are the same True Dragons that fought with the Gods before time, they're already on a higher tier of existence than anything else still in the middle world of Glorantha. As for the Rune, it seems like it probably gets passed down from Dragon Emperor to Dragon Emperor, though there is some funky stuff going on with that whole succession vis a vis how much every Emperor has been actually been a dragon or even draconic.

>>91002905
>Orlanth's mistakes when it comes to Justice do form part of his whole mythic cycle

You kind of see this reinforced with the stories of Tragic King Errarth, whose misfortunes are often framed as a consequence of his softheartedness:
>Errarth, the Tragic King, failed to act against an enemy in his own clan. That enemy turned out to be mad; she triggered an avalanche, and many of Errarth's tribe were buried.
>Errarth, the Tragic King, judged adulterers innocent. The next day, a stray arrow killed his newborn child.
>Tragic King Errarth failed to outlaw his nephew, Jotarth, and Jotarth made war on him.

>>91005389
>have you ever tried telling a dragon what to do?
Yes.

>>91005514
Wasn’t Godunya a dude with a Dragon’s shadow that was trying to become a true dragon?

>>91005743
Sheng Seleris pls go

>>91005764
>'If our rulers were not True Dragons, surely they would be devoured as those interlopers of the Third Council were.'
-Some random post on the Well of Daliath at some point in the last five years

>>91005764
You might be thinking about Ingolf the Dragonfriend
>>91006075
Sounds more like the Guide to Glorantha to me. Something like actually happened once in Kralorea, during the fall of Godlearners and Godlearner-aligned New Dragon Ring and since it happened only this one time, rest of the Kralorean Emperors is seen as fully accepted by the true Dragons.

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>>91005900
No.

How come trolls didn’s steal Mostali secrets when their second most important wargod has everything needed for such a feat? Kidnap a dwarf, bind its ghost and command it to spill the secrets. I guess they might not be super keen on iron but training a man or a trollkin to use sling takes years while the same can be done with musket in mere weeks. And that’s only the military bebefits.

>>91011034
A musket produces fire and light, two things trolls hate, plus the noise will screw with their darksense and reveal their position, and trolls are big on ambush. I don't know about other dwarven tech, but muskets are as uz as voluntarily fasting.

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>>91011668
>A musket produces fire and light, two things trolls hate

>>91012048
> the gunslinger is a champion of Elmal
> travels from place to place to protect the helpless against darkness and chaos
> rides into the sunset

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>>91012112
>Send Fire Sister through the time rift at the hill of gold
>Send the Fire Brother off with Elmal later
Both show back up in Lights Going Out and proceed to dunk on the Great Darkness with their Heroic stats

>>91012207
Absolutely solar.

>>90999941
It isn’t really a quest line but
if you send the Woodcutters that follow no god through Gods War rifts you can encounter certain events. Namely, you can encounter Rashoran about to be murdered by the unholy trio or you can encounter the Gorpgod consuming the land.
You can have the woodcutters try to learn the wisdom of Rashoran or they can tell the Gorpgod to exist in another way. Neither is guaranteed to succeed but if they do then strange wisdom fills their mind and they become Illuminated.
This changes lots of their dialogue and impacts other events featuring them.
He does have a a quest line though, where God Learners show up on a Hero Quest to take him with them.

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>>91012653
gotta do a illumination-run then. should I make the carpenter king, just because?

>>91012112
Our GM said he will move away from uisng published adventures to more sandbox style gaming. Guess I am investing some POW into ZZ and then be off after some Mostali fucks. Mostali are evil little monsters and the world will be a better place without them, but their secrets aren’s tainted by chaos and can be very useful.

>>91013703
They do have a tendency to send small armies of elite fully iron armored commandoes after people who do this to kill them and anyone they may have spoken to.

>>91013763
They can try. Third eye blue were tiny group who intended to keep the secret for themselves and I suppose get rich. We have powerful allies and are willing to share stolen secrets.

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ah shit chaos is really fucking with the world now.

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>>91014431
Yep. It gets worse.

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>>91015673
how can it get worse than there being two of me?
truly, we are all us...

>>91011034
In addition to what was said about sound, light and fire trolls generally don't seem to like high maintenance weapons. They have easy access to bows and crossbows already through human contact yet they still stick to slings and throwing rocks for ranged warfare. Muskets also probably involves a degree of industrial smithing that only the mostali have access to.

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You VS The Guy She Told You Not to Worry About.

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>>91009701
So this is the guy who destroys the Lunar Empire in the age of heroes? What happens to the red goddess? Someone's got to kill her so she's reborn as the white goddess right? And like to save the compromise.

>>91018003
The goddess isn't a problem to the compromise, her place within it was secured at Castle Blue.

It's the Orlanthi rebel and warlord Argrath who brings down the moon with horrifying dragon magic as part of his plan to destroy the compromise and feed the gods to the Devil. This, fairly predictably, causes the apocalypse.

>>91018357
>The goddess isn't a problem to the compromise, her place within it was secured at Castle Blue.
Incorrect.

>>91018357
If she wasn't breaking the compromise then Argrath wouldn't have been able to destoy her inside Time like he did. Just like Nysalor and Zistor before.

>>91018451
hmm, I think "being cast down" is essential enough to the moon's identity for it to still work

No one says Yelm is breaking the compromise because the sun sets.

>>91018674
Yelm dying and being reborn is part of the compromise. Sedenya being physically torn to pieces inside time after centuries is obviously not.

>>91018694
but she was torn to pieces outside time as well, just look at the blue moon plateau

>>91018706
>but she was torn to pieces outside time as well, just look at the blue moon plateau
The Blue Moon and Red Moon are not the same thing.

>>91018755
>Her changes have sometimes been so radical that in ancient times, many beings, even powerful gods, did not recognize Her from one mythic age to the next. She has previously been white, a different red, two different blues, black, and invisible, and in due course will change again to the other white.

>Verithurusa cast off Her joyous red dress and donned one of blue
>She was called Lesilla, Protecting Mother
>[...] the Emperor bent the magical bow and with it drove an immortal arrow through the heart of Lesilla, their Mother in the Sky. The Goddess, weak and old, stumbled and fell from the Sky. A part of Her is still visible as the Blue Moon Plateau, haunted and devastated, inhabited only by ghosts, demons, and trolls.

>>91018357
>King of Sartar
>Book of many different, conflicting, narratives
>Also, right at the end, we have two random stories about apocalypse
>And after that, a small section talking about the chronology of a future age, and hinting about cyclical demon return
>It's really weird
>It's also the only section of the book a certain portion of people talk about, despite it being so minor
>In case you happened to think this future age sounded interesting, don't worry; whenever Greg's asked about it, he just shrugs and points out at the 'real world'.
>Because 'and then the magic went away' is always the most satisfying ending
>(also doesn't really match any of the Harshax Age discussion)
>But it's okay, because now, we're told the entire Stafford Library was just released for money, and none of it is to be taken seriously
>So all of the Old Guard will assure you that it isn't canon
>...Unless they need to use it to win an argument

Honestly, I've grown to kind of hate this book

>>91018808
The blue moon continues to still exist, this is more nonsense than the goddess-switch.
Are you going to start pushing that Umath is the same as Orlanth?

>>91018706
Being torn apart in god time is not at all the same as being torn apart inside time, what nonsense.
By this logic the Sun stopping during the Sunstop wasn't a break of the compromise either. Quit being retarded, you are no gbaji riddler.

>>91018897
>Being torn apart in god time is not at all the same as being torn apart inside time, what nonsense.

It's exactly the same, that's the whole point of the godtime. The sun didn't stop in the god time, it went to the underworld. So it isn't supposed to stop now, it goes to the underworld.

The moon fell and changed forms in the god time, so therefore in time...

>>91019006
>The sun didn't stop in the god time
Wrong, there was a time period where it didn't move. Therefore if it doesn't move that's fine, right? Maybe for 400 years? Maybe 100,000? Hell, time didn't exist in god time so time itself stopping is also not a compromise break!
>The moon fell and changed forms in the god time, so therefore in time...
No you idiot, hanging around for 400 years and then getting destroyed by a dragon is not an example of god time mirroring. There is literally no where that it is said the Red Moon is part of the Great Compromise despite your insistence and plenty of places where it is said that it isn't.

>>91019037
The Red Moon's place is...delicate.
On the one hand, after the conflict at Castle Blue, Arachne Solara has seemed to accept her.
But...that's not the same thing as joining The Compromise.
See:
https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/conflict-in-the-middle-air/
The fact that, if the Red Moon ever stops fighting for dominance of the Middle Air, her position will be erased like all of the various God Learner shenanigans after they were wacked.
So, she both does, and doesn't, belong, at the same time.

>>91018841
Greg was a Shaman so he probably means spirit cults everywhere. Like how Six Ages portrays spirit curls as the go to for surviving when the gods die or RQRG beefing up spirit cults so they are actually tempting to play in game.

>>91019802
Greg might have called himself a shaman but it's alright for the rest of us to be honest and call him a hippy

>>91018841
>But it's okay, because now, we're told the entire Stafford Library was just released for money, and none of it is to be taken seriously
It's really convenient for Jeff to say that.

Do we know for sure if the Red Goddess becomes the White Goddess. And if so when does that happen? Or is the double dragon dicking she receives her "end"?

>>91020577
>Dragon Pass and the Red Moon have moved far from us now. The ancient chroniclers left biased accounts of those times. Generations of historical philosophers and allegorical poets clouded the issue with new truths. The outcome differs with each telling. What really happened? —the only way to discover that is to experience it yourself.
>A gathering of Heroes, as in these battles of Dragon Pass, brings back forgotten places and events. Muster your unconscious: see the glitter of spearpoints, hear the clash and cries of battle, and know the threat and excitement of facing a deadly foe.
>The importance is in the doing. Play it now, not then; here, not there: enjoy.

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Wait I just realized Arkat and Argrath are different but now I'm reading something that says no actually they're not. But Nysalor/Gybaji don't share Sedenya's runes, the dawn age isn't the age of heroes, and the empire of light isn't the lunar empire. Or are there like godtime shenanigans at play here or something?

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I'm new to Glorantha but the setting instantly intrigued me and after getting some books cheap off of Ebay I feel like I don't have an excuse for not running a campaign in it anymore.

I think I've grasped the basics for the most part and played a bit of King of Dragon Pass, but my players are completely clueless, so I thought it might be a good idea and probably pretty fun also to start them as children and work towards their coming-of-age ceremony to ease them into the ideas and mechanics.

Has anyone of you ever done this?
Do you have any advice for doing it this way, or runequest newbie advice in general?

Also, which additional books would you recommend?

>>91021618
shut up fag I'm trying to get my question answered

>>91021399
there might be some reincarnation going on or Argrath is the natural dark and disorderly hero that always rise to destroy those who get too enlightened for the their/the universes own good

>>91021618
Six Seasons in Sartar is a campaign where the players are youths who go through their initiations at the start, it's been pretty popular.

If you dig through the author's blog you can find some older game reports where they ran it with the initiations happening a little later.
https://andrewloganmontgomery.blogspot.com/

RQ has a bit of trouble with characters that young, the basic pass/fail d100 system makes them pretty useless so you'll probably end up going mostly freeform.

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>>91021618
Six seasons in sartar goes through what initiation rituals could look and play like and gives you some adventures for kids/young adults.
If you dont want to use the clan that book provides you could use the varmandi, https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/varmandi-clan/ who are very small. Or make your own, maybe the clan you played in KODP.

>>91021846
what I would do for kid characters is having them make stats as normal but they are in the context of kids. that is to say, a kid's 60% sword skill not comparable to an adult's 60% sword skill. It's not a perfect system, but they are not supposed to go around challenging adults anyways.

>>91021846
>>91021874
Yeah, I did have my eye on SSIS.

>>91021883
That's pretty much what I thought as well.

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Idea for kid quests:
The spring is here and it is time to choose a Springmaiden, a girl to play the role of Voria in the spring festival.
You must sabotage that bitch Jessikalla and make sure that it is YOUR girl (female PC or whatever) that gets the role.

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>>91021967
another:
The kids are watching the sheep up in the hills. Yawn. boring.
Then another group of kids show up with their sheep from the local asshole clan your clan is feuding with. Turns out these hills are contested.
No one here really knows why you are supposed to hate it each other, but you wanna be a good kid, right? so you hate them.
Conflict! drama! insults! low level fighting!
but then WOLVES ATTACK.
will they team upo to save the sheep?

>>91021967
>>91021987
Very cool ideas.

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>>91022348
I have also been working on, no wait that is not true, I have the seeds of an idea for two more.
1. The clan trader takes the pc's with them to a market in another clan or market village. There, many things can happen.
>the high-borniest of the PC's meet a smoking hot girl from another clan, but she is of incredibly low status.
>bullies bully the weakest PC's. PC's get help from an older, cooler kid. This kid takes a shine to one or more of the PC's but is a real bad influence. Will become a Lanbril initiate as an adult and keep bringing problems to the PC's doorstep.

2. on the way back home they enter "texas chainsaw massacre" but with ogres.

>>91019037
The Sunstop happened within time, in 375 heralding the birth of Nysalor, or Gbaji

>>91024804
Yes and it broke the compromise, that was the point. However, back during the Golden Age the Sun didn't go into the underworld. If it was fine to mirror the events of the God Times instead of all of it then there would be no problem with the sun stopping in the sky since it was just mirroring that part of the god time.

>>91024804
What is a sun stop? Fancy name for an equivalent to a time stop spell?

>>91024873
The sun stopped in the sky, hanging there. Time broke and you couldn't even tell how long it stayed that way before it resumed.

>>91024873
sun literally stops as Yelm stops to look down at earth saying "what the FUCK is that!?" when Nysalor was born

>>91024873
Nysalor being born inside of time was such a compromise break that time just fell apart for a bit and Arachne Solara had to give it a couple of smacks with her broom handle to get it rolling again.

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>>91022447
Japanese Argrath is CUTE!
CUTE!!!

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>>91021618
>start them as children and work towards their coming-of-age ceremony to ease them into the ideas and mechanics.
>Has anyone of you ever done this?
>Do you have any advice for doing it this way, or runequest newbie advice in general?
>Also, which additional books would you recommend?
i used their coming of age ceremony to introduce my new players to the idea of a heavily tribal society. I had it so they used blunted weapons to engage in a mock battle so they could see who combat and spirit magic worked and then i gave them a grace period to tweak thier characters stats and skills (they are very new and only played D&D i wanted the to not get turned off my not understanding how the games core mechanics work by making poor choices at character gen.) And after that was done and they had a grasp on the core mechanics I made them choose a cult to join and since Rune magic works kinda similar to Spirit Magic they understood what the spells where saying. Also i started them out in Applelane so they are Hiordlings of the Colymar. One player is playing a woman and women of the Hiordlings get a swan feather cloak when they pass initiation into adulthood which they really loved. Since i started them in Applelane there is plenty of pre made adventures centered around it like the Grey Crane.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/notes-on-the-hero-wars/
>the played experience is always more real than the published guidelines (which in turn is more real than internet fan arguments).
...I swear to god, how does Jeff manage to feel more like That Guy than the actual That Guys hanging around this board?

>>91021399
>>91021809

Arkat as a deity has seven avatars, and he returns during the Hero Wars, but only five are accounted for.

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So how do I start *getting* the deep lore?
Some specific book?
Or shrooms?

>>91026781
What are you babbling about? Jeff is clearly This Guy in this case.

How do you resolve multiple gods of the same thing? A dozen sun gods, random war gods, the goddesses of the ground. How can there be so many gods of the same thing?

>>91029610
have you tried taking heroic doses of hallucinogens and/or burying yourself in a hole?

>>91029610
Kill everyone who believes in the wrong ones.

>>91030209
If the gods re real, it isn’t belief.

>>91030599
Out of sight out of mind.

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>>91029610
Easy, they all exist. The God Time is not rational or finite in the same way the middle world is. Consider that even within the same pantheon/mythology different myths can happen weirdly out of order or without a necessary order. For example, Argan Argar is (probably) the son of Yelm but was also there when Aether, Yelm's father, was born. Do not attempt to rationalize this, accept it. There are no contradictions.

>>91027552
Stafford Library, mostly. You read it, don't understand a shit, read it again and then it finally clicks.

>>90986160
The equation of Dendara and Ernalda in Cults of Runequest is peak God Learnerism.

Hey boys. Black elves. The mushroom ones. I got.an idea for an adventure and I want to use them and enemies. But I have a problem. Where they ever stated out in any edition?

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>>91025066
Japanese Orlanth was nice too.

>>91032447
RQ:G Bestiary p22

>>91032447
Shannon's voralan stuff for MRQ was in Signs & Portents Roleplayer issues 51+53, which are still available as free downloads in drivethrurpg

Brian Duguld released a Voralan Pack book recently but I don't know what it contains in terms of npc statblocks ($10)
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/439149/the-voralans-runequest

>>91032006
You know Dendra didn’t exist when Greg first wrote the Wooing of Ernalda.
That’s part of what makes it a plot of the Bad People. It reveals Greg was making it up as it goes along.

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>>91032447
Officially no I don't believe so. The current edition implies just refluffing/tweaking green elves. There's an excellent Jonston compendium book about them though with stats for lots of different types and a cool dive in to their culture and mythology. It's on sale now and I think some anons have also posted it in the share thread so could ask there too.

>>91019177
>Can’t the compromise be amended? That’s not how it works. The only way I could imagine it is to force every deity to agree – even Zorak Zoran, Kyger Litor, and Storm Bull. Every single one. And do it on the God Plane. Last time that worked was because the only alternative was the annihilation of everything.

If you eliminate 99% of the gods and leave only coupple that hat pratty much always agree on everything, then you could ammend the compormise overy other week. Argrath, you sly fox!

>>91033621
I think you need Arachne Solara to be in on it too and I dont think she is neither very approachable nor willing

>>91033652
>Uh, hello miss. Solara. Here we have this weeks batch of proposed changes to The Compromise. Yinkin, Anilla, Dayzatar, Zola Fel and Voria all signed them already. Of course we can just end the world, personally I don’t care either way.

I dont buy this shit that Sedanya is within the compromise. She used chaos to shake things up.
She could probably have done more if she didnt become bogged down in the dara happan empire though, lol

>>91033823
>I dont buy this shit that Sedanya is within the compromise.
That's because she obviously isn't.

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>>91034368
now listen here, pal...

>>91033823
I wonder if Mostali are happy about red moon because the compromise is preventing them from repairing the world machine.

>>91035009
The main reason they're happy about it is that it's a step forward.
The plans say there's supposed to be a Moon up there, but we haven't had one since the God Time.
It's the wrong color, though. But they're working on that.

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>>91032006
Well, that's the thing - the Sky Pantheon chart doesn't say Voria's the child of Yelm and Dendara; it specifies that she's Yelm and Ernalda's child.
Sky even lists Dendara and Ernalda at the same time, with different kids coming from each. (Including a Lhankor Mhy, who elsewhere is listed as having parents among the celestial court.)
All in all, there's more ambiguity than I expected, which isn't really a bad thing.

>>91036108
part of the Compromise includes "Yelm is not a cuck"

>>91036108
>(Including a Lhankor Mhy, who elsewhere is listed as having parents among the celestial court.)
That is just Jeff Jeffing it up again. The son of Yelm there should be Buserian however Jeff has been trying to push that Buserian and Lhankor May were the same god.
Buserian has the Truth and Stasis runes in the guide, while Lhankor May had Truth and Law. However Jeff removed Law from Lhankor Mhy by replacing it with Stasis like he had back in 1979. This gave them so same runes so Jeff said they were the same god. He did the something similar with Dendara for a while by giving her the exact same runes as Ernalda.
Jeff has backed down on the Godlearnerism slightly on those two, which now have different runes from Lhankor Mhy and Ernalda. For example, Jeff added the Light Rune to Buserian. Not Fire like Buserian actually had at one point in the past, because Jeff loves giving everyone Light instead of Fire because he doesn’t understand how the Fire/Sky rune is meant to work.

>>90974098
WOULD

>>91035975
I am pretty sure there was never a moon there before. There was no middle air and Veldara was just one of many planets. Besides, we don’t know how much of it was blown off, it might have retained 90% of its original mass.

>>91036516
>He did the something similar with Dendara for a while by giving her the exact same runes as Ernalda.
So, does that mean the bit about God Learners 'switching' Ernalda and Dendara to prove they're the same thing is relatively new?
Which might explain why switching two Grain Goddesses caused massive issues, but switching those two apparently had no repercussions whatsoever.

>>91032006
>>91036108
Dendara and Ernalda are extremely similar but explicitly not the same despite all the attempts by the God Learners to prove otherwise.

>>91036646
True. Until they were, until they weren’t.

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>>91036625
It's easier to work on it while it's in the Middle Air; we can push it higher once it's fixed.
Sorta like having it on struts, but in reverse.

>>91036646
every method of comparing them reveals they are identical, excepting one:

when challenged to a riddling contest, they deny it

>>91036677
They weren’t even able to fix Lhankor Mhy.
Which, by the way, gives me one of my favorite Glorantha myths. The Dwarf version of that part of Making of the Storm Tribe is great.

>>90991146
Why would I do that?

>>91037214
Orlanth helped Yelm.

>>91037268
More that that, Orlanth and Yelm became friends.

The idea that everything that happened in Godstime gets mirrored in Time seems odd, since there were gods that died and stayed dead.

>>91039442
The ones killed by chaos stayed dead.

>>91039724
Umath is dead and he was killed by Shargash. Would he be proud of his sons I wonder...

>>91039724
>The ones killed by chaos stayed dead.
Like Ernalda, killed by Nontraya?

>>91036646
>>91036693
ernalda and dendara are each other's jungian shadows. That's it, that's the whole idea. The arkat to their nysalor, the stormbull to their wakboth

>>91036516
>he doesn’t understand how the Fire/Sky rune is meant to work.
Can you elaborate? The link between the High Heavens and Fire is one of the more unique things about the setting, and one that I think I fail to grasp sometimes.

>>91032712
>Voralan Pack book
>>91032731
Thanks gents I picked this up off of Drive ThruRPG and it's a very cool little book and thanks to it the session went off without a hitch. My players where awed and greatly enjoyed them as enemies, especially when they found out they are technically elves.

>>91042057
>Monogamous Tradwife Ultimate Edition
>vs
>Polycule Girlboss Extreme

>>91042059

From The Glorious Reascent of Yelm:
>When the world was given over to the Artheric Principles, the Three Good Brothers divided it among themselves. Therefore they all dwelt only in heaven, and none had ever left their natural realm.
>First Dayzatar, the pure god, descended slowly and gingerly, the way an old man approaches a cold bath. He but touched his toe beneath the sky and found it to be not-sky, and said it was polluting and foul, and withdrew immediately back to the Sky World, where he stayed.
>Then Yelm descended to the surface world, and when he touched upon the earth it was changed for the better. This proved that the world was not impure. Where he touched, he created the Harmonious Realm.
>Then Lodril, the third brother, touched upon the earth with both feet, and then both hands. He was gross and indulged in the physical, and he had no shame. He buried himself beneath the fertile dirt to be beyond the sight of all his kinfolk. There he grew knowledgeable of the Lower World and at the same time was polluted. Thus by his own actions Lodril exiled himself from the pure heavens forever.

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>>91032505
Don't forget Japanese Humakt.

>>91036108
>>91036516
The funniest part is that Dendara is treated as semi-separate goddess with Light Rune, but in Mythology on p. 81 there is still a passage that says "Dendara is a vacant and hollow Ernalda, stripped of selfish interest and power by her bright husband’s oppression."
As we know that in CoR preview Dendara had the same runes as Ernalda, it could be safely assumed that Jeff backed down on this somewhere between 2019 and 2022, and this passage is a leftover from an original Mythology write-up.

>>91035009
>>91035975
The dwarves say they made the red moon. It is part of their repair of the world machine. Its a blinking red light in the sky. It means the machine is partially turned on. It just needs to get out of standby mode.

>>91036625
You keep saying "was" but there "was" nothing. The godtime is not a time, the godtime is now. Those who have gone to the heroplanes have encountered the white moon and red moon, so they certainly are parts of the godtime even if not physically present at certain historical times.

Is Lodril the enemy of modern Orlanthi and the Storm Tribe, their friend, or what? The bits and pieces I read about him are somewhat confusing. Also, is he the father of Ernalda in the Orlanthi worldview?
>>91043158
>spoiler
lol

>>91043158
Godtime is different from the past. History is real and happened. There is Godtime, but there once was earlier world with intact world machine and back then there was no middle air or moon.

>>91043198
I guess he is mostly neutral, albeit somewhat unpredictable due to his character. He is of little importance and more of a background character in Sartar, but in Esrolia he takes a central part in some myths (his defeat by Argan Argar, his marriage to Asrelia and their quarrel, fathering the Twins). Also he is considered a husband-deity to Ernalda, and his shrines are said to be included in most Earth temples.

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>>91042958
I think that passage is meant to say she's like Ernalda and not just literally Ernalda.

>>91043198
As per the newest stuff Lodril is actually friendly to Orlanth. Lodril is a very sort of god and he was one of the gods that convinced Yelm that a friendship with Orlanth would be more benefitial for everyone.

>>91043198
There are Orlanthi that have Lodril as their most important god, some weirdo volcanic island savages I think.

>>91043777
Why is Orlanth Hostile to Pamalt?

Which god has the biggest dick?

>>91043894
Lodril

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>>91043792
Probably because Orlanth, under the name Baraku, did a whole bunch of "bad stuff" and raiding in Pamaltela and Pamalt hasn't forgiven it.

>>91043894
Lodril definitely. Or atleast he's the one most prone to show it off and talk about it to everyone.

>>91042958
Also funny since, in the Guide, the section on the God Wall talks about how any goddess conflation with Dendara is just as likely to be with Entekos as Ernalda, depending if you're in the north or south end of Peloria (and a brief mention of temples in Saird that worship both Dendara and Ernalda, but don't conflate them). And yet, in the God Learner section, while there's brief discussion of the Goddess Switch and its bad consequences, there's zero mention of this supposed and much-hyped conflation of two rather major goddesses.

>>91042551
So, previously, the idea was supposed to be:
Dayzatar - Light
Yelm - Sky
Lodril - Fire
Something like that? And in theory, which rune a lesser god would have depended on which of the brothers they were more like? But we're now using a different rubric?

>>91045006
The way I see it is:
Dayzatar - Light
Yelm - Fire
Lodril - Heat
Dayazatar refused to have anything to do with the world and stayed pure. Lodril engulfed himself in wordly matter and lost the light of purity. Yelm is pure but capable of engaging with the wordly without losing it.

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Which of the Runequest books do you consider most useful?

>>91045403
Core set, the new mythology book. The game master kit is really great, huge amount of material.

>>91045006
Something like that, but dayzatar always had fire anyway and lodril has heat. Now lodril has fire