>>>IF YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION, PLEASE SPECIFY WHICH GAME YOU'RE PLAYING<<<Trouble at the Lab Edition/pfg/ (pathfinder 1e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T/p2g/ (pathfinder 2e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/1zySxwm3/sfg/ (starfinder) link repository: https://pastebin.com/5yp9s2U3/3eg/ (D&D 3.X) link repository: https://pastebin.com/VMRsxB2mThe T̶r̶o̶v̶e̶ Vault (seed, please!):bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4MdPrevious thread: >>88954771TQ: How to roleplay a smart Orc (or Goblin)?
Wake up babe, worse cone of cold just dropped
>>88989521
>>88989521wow you can do literally 50% less damage than cone of cold for the same slot while still having the same annoying aiming issues of cones, or you could do 50% less damage than a Fireball at the level you get it! All for an Uncommon spell you had to fucking fellate your GM for access to in the first place!electric arc does 3d4+4 as a fucking cantrip at this level. Spending a spell slots to do 4d6 is downright insulting. You need to be hitting 3+ people with the cone for it to be better than a cantrip? While also endangering any allies or putting yourself at risk to aim this awkward shotgun blast? Fuck off.Seeing shit like this is actually just fucking insulting to the playerbase
>>88989666>>88989521Don't forget the two (2) persistent bleed damage on critical failure!
>>88989666But think of the bleed damage! They can't make spells too overpowered. We don't wanna return to the scary 1e days.
So Warpriests get master proficiency in their deity weapon and you can refocus to 3 focus from lvl1 with all classes. Fucking finally.
>>88989521Is there some reason why Paizo considers slashing damage better than bludgeoning when it comes to ability budget
>>88990051They also get master with martial weapons, no?
>>88990051At level 19? So its fucking worthless.
Magus (and kind of summoner but not really) has gotten master in both spellcasting and weapons since secrets of magic, the people who have been bitching and moaning about the possibility of warpriest getting master are straight up schizos. Magus is far from the best class in the game, having Master doesn't make you OP, it's the fucking baseline level of competency you need to function as a weapon hitter in 2e.I can't wait to see all the fags that have insisted "warpriest is good and fine, actually" have a goddamn meltdown over this though
>>88990072Resistance to slashing is very common.Resistance to bludgeoning is less common.Then vice versa for weaknesses.If somehow you fight a 60ft cone full of zombies this is a pretty good spell.
Pathfinder Remastered Panel write uphttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q_NyA75fUx86Aw1uk1AzSb78gfg2UfVydRg2yt5prpw/preview#Pretty good stuff
Im honestly surprised there was no mention of spell attack runes. Its such a glaring oversight.
>>88990378>Aasimar and Tieflings merged into NephelimAlright, cool, you got me>It's cool because a lot of celestials have animal featuresGod dammit, Paizo
>>88990414because according to Paizo spells failing more than they succeed is working as intendedlike "druid is fine and everyone loves it" is pretty much not what I've experienced, especially not for the poor souls who want to turn into a bear
Any starfinder stuff yet in Paizocon?
>>88990414is it even confirmed that we're getting spell attack runes? half the casters in the book are getting substantial changes. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see spell attack runes until player core 2 or later, if at all.>>88990562All I changed about druid was letting handwraps of mighty blows work with wild shape, and my druid player's ecstatic about the class now.
>>88990378>Alignment Removal>It's been a hot button issue for literally decades. >It's time to let alignment go and come up with cooler and newer ways to express these ideas.Terrible idea. Only retards take issue with alignment.
>>88990378Mostly small changes that I don't care about. Stuff to cut out OGL. I appreciate that they didn't nerf anything, but instead tried to buff underperforming things. The changes are over all so minor, though, that I imagine it won't feel much different in play. This did stick out though:>They now have a shield rune called "Reinforcing" that can be etched on shields to improve its hardness and durability. Sturdy Shields are still the best at blocking, but the Reinforcing Rune lets you make Magic Shields better and enables you to use shield blocking more often if you want. Paizo found that players were often frustrated that their cool new shields made them feel like they couldn't actually use the Shield Block action as often as they would've liked, so Paizo wanted to address this.I don't get the idea here. Sturdy Shield is required gear for all shield users specifically because it's the best at blocking and that's literally the job of the shield, so that's so heavily weighted that basically any other magical property is going to be a distant second. Unless this shield rune is *very* close in power to the Sturdy Shield, it's never going to be used--Sturdy Shield will still be a must-take. And if it does end up being very close to the Sturdy Shield, then you just invalidate Sturdy Shield instead. Why not just errata out Sturdy Shield entirely and move all of its mechanics to the rune? This seems like a half measure.
>>88990611>is it even confirmed that we're getting spell attack runes?No and thats the problem. Spell attacks being -3-4 behind a regular attack at some levels is so ridiculously large in 2e it has to be an oversight. If it isnt then its just Paizo just admitting that they fucking despise casters attempting to deal single damage.
>>88990378>no more magic schools>no more spell components>no more metal anathema for druids>everyone gets weaponsOh fuck yes
>>88990742>Mostly small changes that I don't care about. Stuff to cut out OGL. I appreciate that they didn't nerf anything, but instead tried to buff underperforming things. The changes are over all so minor, though, that I imagine it won't feel much different in play.The change to refocus is gigantic for all focus classes. Being able to refocus back to 3 focus after every single fight from lvl 1 without having to waste high level feats for it will have a huge impact for classes such as monks, that can easily have 3 focus points starting at lvl 2. I don't even care about any other changes, since this one is such a game changer.
>>88990378>>88990826Consecutive refocus is going to juice the fuck out of pretty much every caster that isn't wizard, champions too.Monks will become rather deadly as well.Some pretty significant changes will need to be made to oracle though.
>>88990839>mfw GM told me to take a psychic dedication on a Magus for plot reasons>mfw 3 focus points at level 4
>>88990742Because now you can have a shield that does something else too, and the job of that shield is no longer "block", but instead "block and do something else too". If you want a shield that can just block the option is still there. If the sturdy rune proves to be worthless I'll print this post out, tie it to a brick, and throw it through a window at Paizo HQ.
>>88991055The obvious question to ask is why not simply reinforce a sturdy shield?I imagine the wording will be something like shields with less than x hardness and y hit points increase their maximums to those values.
>>88991055>If the sturdy rune proves to be worthless I'll print this post out, tie it to a brick, and throw it through a window at Paizo HQ.I appreciate that Anon.
If the reinforcement rune isn't a fundamental rune, it will be an accessory rune?That means we won't be able to equip it in magic shields with investment, no?
>>88990717Isn’t it for legal reasons with wotc ?
>>88991292I wouldn't doubt it, and from all the renaming they're doing it seems like they're trying to move away from DnD as hard as possible, but I have no faith in whatever they use to replace alignments if anything.
>>88991292it's both a shit system and a legal issue, no reason not to cut it.
At least we won't have people asking for neutral champions anymore. They'll probably just let you choose your cause and then pick if you do holy or unholy or if you want to be unsanctified.
I'm glad they're moving away from DnD and 1eshit. Maybe then we can filtered out the 1efags and have a nice general.
Pawn anon that was figuring out storage here, I opted for binders. 3" binder fits a bestiary well and I combined some of the smaller sets together in one binder
https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizoGod this is grating, I just want info
>>88991122Because shields that do other things are cool. And it's probably going to be "can't be placed on a sturdy shield"
>>88991497That looks pretty good
>>88991686Thanks anon. I've still got 9 binders to add pawns to but it's fairly slow to do and I'll probably need to get another box of tobacco pages. I tried the shorter coin pages for the small pawns but it didn't work too well.
Wonder how Pathbuilder is gonna go along with this. If the app updates to the new remastered options, but doesn't leave a way to access the old (current) version, and the remastered rules do turn out to be mostly shit, anyone who stays on pre-remaster content will have lost a great character-building tool>"But nobody would be so stupid as to entirely delete the old functionality from an app without way of accessing it!"I've seen it happen once too many times, unfortunately, I can't trust app developers anymore
>>88991728It already has options to toggle books and alternative rulesets. It'll just be a big load to add all the info, but other than that it shouldn't be that bad imo
1eWhat classes count as full casters?
>>88992021Anything which goes to 9th level spells. So your Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, Arcanists, Shamans, Oracles and Witches.
These fuckers seem incredibly annoying to deal with. They got resistances, multiple conditions, range, a fuckton of hp, flight, grab, and a reaction to COMPLETELY NEGATE the damage from a hit
>>88992054Also Psychic
>>88992132Water kineticists are going to have a field day with these! And by that I mean they don't have bludgeoning resistance.
>>88992021Read nigga read https://aonprd.com/Classes.aspx
2eHow broken would it actually be to let casters regain all spellslots just by refocusing so long as that spell was used in combat and doesn't have a duration?
>>88992054Thank you>>88992300I hope a mite eats your favorite package of cookies
>>88992371Chain Lightning, Chain Lightning, Chain Lightning, Sudden Bolt, Sudden Bolt, Sudden Bolt
>>88992456*passes the reflex saves*They're still only casting a few spells per combat because of how short it is
>>88992371Pretty broken. I'd call it about as broken as letting martials spam Flourish moves or ignore the Press trait. Just everybody spamming their highest-powered abilities every fight. That being said, that could be a fun mechanic to introduce during a particular dungeon or something.
Merging Aasimar and Tieflings into one race is retarded.
>>88992622I wonder if there's a way to make a system that's like a Shonen battle where combatants are required to use combat options in increasing levels of power as the fight progresses, so you're forced to use the weaksauce stuff first but then as both sides get "more serious" they start to dish out stronger maneuvers.
>>88992666Kind of reminds me of the Striker class (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/striker) or the Henshin Hero class (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/henshin-hero) where you have to build up your resource through specific actions. It could be interesting to apply to a whole system
>>88992724>>88992666Thats literally the Prodigy (also a Spheres class). It does just that and you can build it out basicallt however which way you like.
>>88992810Right, knew I was forgetting one. Never looked that much into the "Champions" classes
>>88989343>>88987185
>>88992888Archives aren't being updated for a reason, having working links there was a leading part of why a lot of Troves and similar repositories got nuked.
>>88992860Most have a little bit of powercreep and you can definitely whiteroom optimize them into the stratosphere. If your GM actually enforces and restricts casting traditions then they all get pretty dramatically weaker
>>88992888i know the one's in the op aren't them, but i also know the share thread one hasn't been updated in a while and this was as good a place to try as any
Anyone played/read through stolen fate 1/2? Fairly new gm to pathfinder and I can’t yet tell if encounter pacing is good, loot is fair, enemies are balanced etcHeard a few of the other APs have weird balance issues or loot distribution not matching their own recommendations
>>88993291You probably shouldn't be running an 11-20 adventure path if you're new to gm-ing. When it comes to balance, most of the complaints are about the first few AP's released for the system, the newer ones should generally be fine, but I can't say from experience whether they actually are.
>>88993324I’m planning on running a 1-11 first, probably Alkenstar since I’ve heard not great things about gatewalkers Just thinking more for the future
>>88993324>>88993337Also sorry to clarify, not new to GMing, new to pathfinder though and don’t want to tweak or change balance without knowing exactly what I’m doing
>>88993291It highly depends on the AP in question and if you let your players loot everything not nailed down.AP balance is all over the place sometimes. You'll see your party steamroll 2 or 3 then go into an encounter that will stomp them.
>>88992644They have to because WotC owns the terms Aasimar and Tiefling, anon.
>>88993337Alkenstar is maybe the worst 1-10 of the bunch, I've seen two different groups bail on it
>>88993493My problem is not that they changed Aasimar and Tieflings to be legally distinct, my problem is that they decided the best way of doing so was to merge them together.
I love Pathfinder!
>>88993748They're just different flavors of the same thing, though.
>>88993748Aside from their traits and lore, its not like they're functionally different in 2e. You get the trait, can pick feats from the list, and can get upgraded vision (normal -> lowlight -> darkvision). While they're at it they should merge all the geniekin together too. Distinguishing between the breeds is literally what the ancestry feat system is for.
>>88993827Hey, I'm glad to hear that! You keep that positivity, dear.
>>88993827Cute lil anime
>>88992132They seem pretty vulnerable to monks and hideous laughter.
>No Alignment>Alignment Damage switched with Spirit Damage>Metal Anathema gone for Druids>Witches have a heavier Familiar focus>Easier Refocus>Shield RunesPretty great desu
>>88994271We pay for arbalest rangers with bladed scarf rogues.Is it worth it? Too early to say.
>>88994302I for one am very excited to make a crossbow ranger that doesn't rely on being raised by magic tree people, although the Taw Launcher is a hell of a weapon.
Did they mention Errataing DA, SoF and G&G to get them all in line with the rule changes?
>>88994271>Talismans not being useless>More ancestry feats>Crafting attempt #3>Reposition action>Promise of more teamwork-oriented spells
>>88994753>Crafting attempt #3When did they mention that?Not that I am complaining.
>>88994672Yes, they will.>>88994753>Reposition actionAnyone know wtf it does?
>>88994812At some point during the stream they off-handedly mentioned "crafting changes">>88994827We don't know, but there's no way it isn't the drag option everyone has been homebrewing since release.
>>88994827Some sort of athletics skill advantageous to fighters, so perhaps a way to relocate an ally or swap squares with them.We've all just been houseruling medium creatures as six bulk items for that purpose this whole time.When your rogue gets downed by a spear trap they nat 1ed you can drag them outside before administering cpr.
1e. Are there any rules for implanting a PCs soul/consciousness into an item? Basically creating an intelligent item, but it's effectively the PC. Would class abilities and/or spellcasting not dependent on physical components still be usable?
>>88995062Eternal Apotheosis
lmao at the CR fan who thought Matt Mercer invented hags who use candy to entice children in the livestream. I'm glad even the cucked Paizo fanbase called him out for being a retard.
>>88994827>Yes, they will.Proof?
>>88995673They said they need to errata magus because of the changes to spell schools. Arcane cascade has effects based on the school of magic you use.
Any word on Alchemist changes? I'm a year or so out of the loop but this new stuff is sounding interesting.
>>88995699No, they haven't started on the second book yet.
>>88995699Warpriest getting master proficieny indicates that bomber Alchemist might be getting master proficiency in bombs and Mutagen Alchemist might be getting master proficiency in unarmed attacks.
>>88995639>Matt Mercer invented hags who use candy to entice children in the livestreamMercer worked at paizo confirmedhttps://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Witch%20Gingerbread%20Witch
>>88995735So Barbarian and Champion won't be core as well then?
>>88995980Correct, they will also be in the second book too.
>>88995931Mercer wrote Hansel and Gretel confirmed.
>>88995909If its at level 19 like the warpriest then its a literal nothing burger.
>>88995980Barb and Sorc not being core feels weird.Champ is more understandable.
>>88996380It does but somebody had to be cut and i guess it was them. I think barb and sorc need some of their subclasses fixed because of the whole ogl monster situation.
>>88996441Why did someone need to be cut?
>>88996441>>88996380There are some classes that are gonna be able to cope without a rewrite and that's two of them.Something to think about with spirit damage and consecration is that divine sorcs either break further or are perfectly fine, probably the latter.>>88996463Probably to get it all out the door pronto to rip out OGL content.
>>88996463Only so much space in a book anon. Core book 2 will be only a few months later and honestly im more interested in that.
>>88993500Oh really, how come? Do you know why they bailed?I read through and it seems like plot reasons for going everywhere tend to just become “get the formula, oh no it’s somewhere else” which shouldn’t be too hard to rewrite into something interesting >>88993425Sure so just keep an eye on how players are handling stuff and if they’re lagging behind then throw them a bone
>>8899266613th Age has the Escalation Die: every turn of Combat after the first, players add a bonus to their attacks, starting from 1 and going up to 6 in the 7th round (shown as a d6 with the corresponding side up).Many abilities can only be used or get special effects when the die is above a certain number. This means fights get more dramatic as the turns pass.If players try to cheese the mechanic by running around or hiding, the GM is encouraged to not advance or even revert the die.
>>88990044I mean go back to 1e if it's so much better? I don't get this mentality. 2e is so bad I have to keep on playing it and bitching about it. 1e is a tumor that grew on 3e's smelly ass. I'll take an underpowered optional spell over that any day of the week.
>>88997167>everything is good Paizo cant make mistakesI dont understand this attitude either
>>88995639I'm not laughing. It's sad how uneducated the average person is these days. I bet they can tell me what all thirty plus letter stand for in the gay rainbow alphabet though!
>>88997189Yeah, never made the claim that PF2e was a perfect game. It's simply better than all the alternatives. You can simultaneously be better than dogshit and also smell like it because you stepped in it.
>>88997167Spells in 2e would be fine if casters had any way to get better at casting a certain type of spell just like how martials can get better at doing a certain type of action in combat through feat and item choices
>>88997220>Yeah, never made the claim that PF2e was a perfect game. It's simply better than all the alternativeslol
>>88997220Then why are you defending completely useless spell that is not worth the ink it was printed with?
>>88997224Battle form and summon spells kinda suck. Incap is complete overkill for alot of spells.
>>88991728This is sadly gonna be the case for the Foundry system by the looks of things.
>>88997402Incap mostly works in players favor.Only firm barrier against shit like ghouls and creatures with the blindness spell being remarkably deadly. Even phantasmal killer's critical failure fort save or die has incap, and it's a remarkably common spell on published monsters.
>>88997402Allowing specialization would solve that too. Just print feat or items that reduce incap effect on certain spells or boost the battleform spells.
>>88997402yeah true, battle form inheriting handwrap runes or armor runes would give it a huge buff and let you build around itsummoning is hard to fix because they still rely on spell level, maybe some magic item that lets summoners treat their summon spells as +1/2/3 higher for what creature can be summoned?Incap on single target spells needs to be removed because it's just a double nerf It should stay on aoe debuff spells as a form of providing protection to the boss of an encounter while still letting that spell mess up adds
>>88997441It serves its purpose correctly on that front because a monsters abilities scale to its level and monsters dont have to care about preserving spell slots because they are usually one and done fights. It is not fit for purpose for PC spellcasters as it forces an even bigger premium on your top level slots. Having incap just purely go off a creature's level instead of spell level allows for a caster to have more useful spells per day while still stopping them from nuking bosses.
>>88997596Classic argument repeated many times, but no one playing or writing 2e cares as its fundamental to the game that high level monsters are intended to menace players and low level monsters are there to be fodder.Spells are meant to reward planning, that's the foundation of vancian casting as lifted out of Dying Earth.
>>88997454They completely fucked up with summoning honestly. As much of a shit show Tasha's cauldron was, they actually got summoning down correctly in it. Summon spells should of been templates that you slap onto a statblock that is a animal companion level in strength. Ripping monsters straight from the bestiary is impossible to balance against and paizo chose to make them on the weak side.
>>88997677>Ripping monsters straight from the bestiary is impossible to balanceAlso encourages the players to study the bestiary, which is pretty shitty thing in a game where PCs are not supposed to know monster abilities without checks.
>>88997661What the fuck are you talking about? Did you actually read what i said? Having Incap pulled solely from your character level instead of spell level x 2 will still stop you from crippling monsters higher level than you. The only difference is that casters can use their lower level slots to cast incap spells on mooks and same level targets.
>>88997742Precisely.
>>88997596Surely a boss' higher saves already prevent casters from nuking them as only crit failure effects would really have that kind of devastating effect and most bosses are already in the "only crit fails saves on a 1" ball park before applying incapthe real killer is that incap means you're hardly likely to apply ANY effect as even a less than 50% chance of failure turns into success and the likeliest outcome is critical success so it's just this crazy double nerf which feels like all of casting in 2e has in general>>88997677Yeah I strongly agree, the previous systemic risks or issues of summoning is action economy breaking and that's been handledThe current iteration of summoning feels like a token place holder because they'd rather kill this sacred cow but then caster players might actually just never play 2e without serious homebrewLook at how the summoner class handles their eidolons, generally they fall into one of two "standard" statblocks and have a handful of abilities based on their type, turning summoning overall into picking a statblock, then picking a "type" of creature for abilities would be perfectOffer less capable players pre-made recommendations of stuff to summon at each level, ensure that prepared casters have to pick the statblock combo when the spell is prepared so they don't spend 10 minutes on their turn, and wow summoning is fun now
How would you build Ivy in PF1e? Give me the dips and/or prestige classes. I'm actually serious and not hornyposting.Whip as a focused weapon is obligatory ofc.
>>88997760I'm telling you it is fit for purpose as selection pressure on your best slots and monsters following the same rules the player does are goals which incapacitation as written achieves, and all proposals to address incapacitation treat it as a problem rather than intention.
>>88997852NTA, but I actually kind of agree that Incap should just be based on character level. Most of them already come with heightened effects, the Counteract rules already provide good reason to use high-level slots for them (Counterspell really should be more available on mons to begin with), and it provides congruency among martial Incap options.I don't disagree that it was intentional and that I like spell prep, but it does run just a tad hallow when Flexible Spellcaster is right there and nothing was stopping you from having Incap spells be Signature. There's both plenty of mechanics to incentivize using top slots already, and mechanics that slip around preparation. All for spells that are...pretty mid overall, Incap or not.
>>88997796>Surely a boss' higher saves already prevent casters from nuking themI sort of agree but im trying to meet Paizo halfway so to speak and i do prefer boss fights to be epic climactic battles. I think with my changes to incap and spell accuracy runes added makes casters feel alot better.> The current iteration of summoning feels like a token place holder because they'd rather kill this sacred cow.It does feel that way with Paizo sometimes. They built these things because they had to but nerfed them into the ground because it didnt fit the incredibly narrow view they have for casters. Its clear their mindset was "this was broken in 1e so how do we nerf it." when their mindset should of been "how do we make this concept work in this game and create a strong gameplay style".>>88997852Its fit for purpose for everything but PC casters. Paizo treats spells like class features and feats so why do they not get treated like feats by this rule? You are arguing for a rules that is simply unfun in its current state, It forces casters into very limited spell lists and for the entire adventuring group to engage in shorter adventuring days because the wizard only has 8 spells worth a damn in a difficult fight.
>>88997872>>88998033What you'd have to be satisfied with is banking an extra hero point for when a 4th level phantasmal killer gets aimed at you, regardless of your level.To say nothing of all the other ruinous stuff you'd face like blindness critical failures.It would be considerably nasty to most players to tinker with this rule, in order to enjoy color spray and sleep at lower levels of investment.Adventuring days hardly matter either. Just go to sleep. It takes no table time.What takes table time are large combats where everything is making two saves a round.
>>88997817Just play a fighter and pick up weapon finesse and the whip feats. The whip feats even let you grapple so that is taken care of and you can even trip or disarm with Serpent Lash. You will want Agile Maneuvers to do Dex to CMB. Since you probably want to wear the bodysuit I would recommend Spider-Silk Bodysuit. If you pick up Drow Racial Heritage feat (don't know how that would work lorewise but whatever) you can get like +8 on the dex bonus when wearing it. Then just go all in dex with Weapon Finesse. Your fighter abilities will jack up the damage with Weapon Specialization and such so you don't have to worry about your low strength score. But feel free to pick up Agile weapon enchantment to add dex to damage. With all this you can trip, grapple, disarm, reposition, and deal damage. Can't do much else though but Ivy just does whippy whip stuff so you get what you ask for.
>>88998090>What you'd have to be satisfied with is banking an extra hero point for when a 4th level phantasmal killer gets aimed at you, regardless of your level.Ok so you just didnt read my alteration to the rule and are just sperging out like i said i wanted to fully remove it.
>>88998090>Adventuring days hardly matter either. Just go to sleep. It takes no table time.Literal no game take.
>>88998138I read the part where you want to privilege players over monsters and dismissed it out of hand as antithetical to the rules the same way using a d12 for checks would be.>>88998168Do you guys rp getting in to bedrolls and blowing the fire out?What do you roll for that.
>>88998090>Adventuring days hardly matter either. Just go to sleep. It takes no table time.Actually now that you mention it, I have to suggest my GM that we take full rest after every combat so that I always have my highest level spells available.I have been dumb to not realize that it does not matter.
>>88998243You certainly could if you somehow managed to empty every significant spell you had in one encounter.
>>88998271To think people have been making all sorts of suggesions about letting casters regain spells between fights, when it actually was in the game all along.
>>88998224>I read the part where you want to privilege players over monstersI really dont know what you are talking about as my rule change would affect monsters also and from your comment of adventuring day being "Just sleep lol". Im not sure even you know what you're talking about.
>>88998319Apologies if I'm slow to grasp exactly what you suggest.To make it clear we're discussing pathfinder second editions incapacitation trait and altering it to use player spellcasters levels as the determinant for spells rather than the level of said spell doubled. I'm describing the issues this would cause when granted to monsters, and the source of contention is unclear as you claim this would not occur or that I'm misconstruing your proposal.As for the second point.When you complete eight hours of rest you're able to prepare and regain expended spells. You can do this once per 24 hours.People seem unaware of this, or think that the 24 hours is realtime rather than in the game. I don't know.
>>88990765Well its less "no more spell components" and more "we moved the traits that were on spell components to be directly on the spell instead"
>>88998132Thank you very much anon
I feel like these games have a problem nobody talks about. The literacy of your players has a real impact on the game. I've had two players recently misread their feats or spells. Then argue about how they actually work. These players have not actually read the rule books. They haven't even read the section that breaks down how to read their feats or spells. However, they insist that their interpretation makes sense. The GM naturally has the final say, but you still have to deal with players being upset you took their toy away. I can't help but feel that giving players any say or control over rules in these kinds of games is a mistake.
1eAny suggestion what would be the LOUDEST spell or effect you could make with lvl 7 or below character without using higher level scrolls, or wands, or such.
>>88998033>I sort of agree but im trying to meet Paizo halfway so to speak and i do prefer boss fights to be epic climactic battles.The issue is that these boss fights are only epic for non-casters, casters won't be able to hit the boss' AC and even if they do their single target spells just don't do much damage at all, they can't effectively debuff a boss, so what's left? Just buff your martials and cantrip spam in an epic boss fight?>They built these things because they had to but nerfed them into the ground because it didnt fit the incredibly narrow view they have for castersCasters being hard locked into "general utility" and forced to be universalists goes in the face of every single caster class fantasy that's existed for years, they nerfed every angle of them and haven't let them gain any power despite years of showing that they've been neutered and players complaining>I think with my changes to incap and spell accuracy runes added makes casters feel alot betterWhat are your changes btw? Sorry if I missed them posted earlier>>88998393>People seem unaware of this, or think that the 24 hours is realtime rather than in the game. I don't know.I'm not the anon you're replying to but every martial being able to continue fighting pretty much non stop while the caster begs to go home and rest isn't a fun group dynamic, the 10 minute refocus/repair/treat wounds break between rooms in a dungeon is excellent as every class interacts with it and gives your group roleplay opportunityLong rest spamming either involves handwaving how safe it is to rest somewhere, travel times, distances, or just the time scale of an adventure itself
>>88998491Once you get out of low low tier the wizard tugging on your armored sleeve and saying no more stoneskin/haste/fly, or the cleric telling you no more heal is usually enough provocation to abandon the adventure for the day.I have never ever seen these strange tables where the players decide to tell one another to go fuck themselves to put it bluntly. Nor would I want to.I would never so much as play snakes and ladders with them.Besides which you have to long rest on a 16 hour alarm clock anyway or fatigue sets in. You are not able to spam long rest. But you are not able to neglect it either. It must happen, daily. Perhaps people are not playing the game as intended.
>>88998558And yet they wonder why it gets called a wargame
>>88998393>I'm describing the issues this would cause when granted to monsters, and the source of contention is unclear as you claim this would not occur or that I'm misconstruing your proposal.Then what is your problem?Only monsters of the same level as you or higher can cast incap spells on you which is exactly the same as the original rule. Yes it does mean they can use lesser incap spells but why would they when they have access to stronger higher level spells? If a strong monster wanted to spam Phantasmal killer then they could do that in the existing rules anyway.For PCs, it allows them to have far more varied and longer lasting spell loadouts that they can use on weaker or on level monsters while keeping the big gun non-incap spells for the big boss fights. Boss monsters are still protected by incap.>When you complete eight hours of rest you're able to prepare and regain expended spells.I dont know what type of game you play but if im out in the wilds or in a dungeon, it can be quite dangerous to set up camp and sleep. This also doesn't cover time sensitive missions.
>>88998558Stoneskin and fly are level 4 spells, haste is level 3If you're spending all your spell slots casting those each day then you're not casting anything else worthwhile with your biggest spell slots, so what level can you use those regularly and still have higher spell slots to actually do something yourself instead of being a buff bot? 9+? Almost at the end of your 1-10 campaign?>I have never ever seen these strange tables where the players decide to tell one another to go fuck themselves to put it bluntly. Me neither but it still adds nothing to the experience, if you start getting ambushed while resting, ambushed while travelling to or from the dungeon by anything that might be a challenge then you're burning more spell slotsSo what then? You're 5 rooms into a single dungeon floor and your caster is out of spells because they're anywhere from level 1-8, do you just handwave a free long rest with no changes? Nothing in the dungeon reacted to half the rooms getting wiped out 24 hours later? Your concept works fine for some urban campaign where players are usually dealing with 1 or 2 fights a day and initiating them on their own but what about anything that has time constraints? Chasing down a villain? Rushing to protect a town? Racing to find the magical cure/item/whatever? Casters can't just plop down for 8 hours and snooze
>>88998132>>88997817Agile maneuvers can be a bit of a trapRaising both DEX and STR lets you take fury's fall which in turn lets you apply both DEX and STR to tripping maneuvers fighter alternative weapon training also lets a STR + DEX build shine pretty hard, trained grace for example lets you apply double your weapon training bonus if you use DEX to attack and STR to damagealso, ask your DM if you can use the EITR rules, it's one of the most common houserules but helps a lot to cut down on mandatory feats
>>88998491Incap now goes off character level instead of spell level x2 like it does for class feats and monster abilities. This allows you to use lower level incap spells on same level or weaker monsters. This makes incap spells much more desirable and gives spellcasters more varied and longer lasting spell loadouts. The Spell Mod accuracy items just nudge spell math into a fairer success rate.
>>88998658>Agile maneuvers can be a bit of a trapIt can be. But if you go all in on Dex for AC/hit/damage strength does mean a lot less and you can get away with just a dex belt to save on item costs. But yeah if you can afford and want to lower your AC and to hit to bump your strength up at the cost of dex this is more efficient.
>>88998739>>88997817True enough, but as a whip user AC isn't as important since you've got reach oh rightalso if you like combat maneuvers, literally nothing measures up to lore warden shenanigans you can get some fairly insane CMB numbers
Rolled 17 (1d20)Claimed for bards.>TQ: Most goblins just need a push to find their calling in a way that expands their sense of scale. Here and now are often a goblins first thoughts but what if they could set it all on fire or stab an even bigger beast?
>>88998658>>88998777Just an off question anons. Should I dabble with Swashbuckler at all, since her style is mostly elegance - DEX than STR? I want to suggest some things to my DM for that.
>>88998928Swashbucklers have a very particular "swashbuckler" style and don't really deviate from it muchwhich doesn't quite fit whip usersreally, 1e fighter is great, don't let memories of 3.5 or hell what fighter was in early PF fool you, it's an incredibly versatile class that can do almost anything good
>>88995980>>88996380I know they claim it’s because of edicts and anathemas, but really champ needs a complete overhaul because they were garbage.
>>88999179Good Champs were incredibly powerful and great.It was the Evil Champs that were garbage.
Anything about Starfinder Enhanced yet?
>>88999244You're right but even still Good champs felt a little lacklustre because they had features poached off of them and given to fighters instead
>>88999268Just gut the Champion archetype and they're fine
>>88999306I meant more like the anti fear ability that's just a fighter class passive nowAlthough you are right with how some archetypes give way too much and some far too little
>>88999244Except levels 2-7 were dreadfully boring. Technically there was fun stuff at 6, attack of opportunity says no.>>88999268>Masters of armor and defense>Fighters have their shield always raised 8 levels earlier.
>>88999389Attack of opportunity is one of the things that needs to be made into a passive on classes that are obviously going to pick it over anything else, or maybe at least on defensive focused classes that want to protect other party members?
>>88999336Agree that Champion could get a small boost at least. Been giving them Aura of Courage/Despair for free at 5th level to do that, it's pretty potent at higher levels, an ally could go from getting hit with frightened 3 to not being frightened in a full round.
>>88999431>>88999389Champ is like the one class that can't even use Attack of Opportunity, their own reaction takes up that slot. Plus you can just play Paladin for a defense + attack.
>>88989343>"Oh no, that ooze broke out of its tank!">Throw cold grenade>All the other tanks and bottles break
>>88999450>>88999462With the discussion on summoning earlier, champion does feel like one of those sacred cows that's in here to tick a box but doesn't really shine at doing anything else in particularPaladin could well be turned into Warpriest Cleric as that seems to be the niche that paladin wasIt'd be cool if Champion could be powered by something other than divine beings too, like witches or sorcerers, creating room for a martial pick-your-spell-list type of class
>>88999554True but the same argument could be used on Ranger/Druid with a martial Druid Order or Wizard/Magus with a more martial Wizard school.Champions aren't even required to have deities, and once the alignment changes come they'll probably let "Neutral" champions exist by letting you either do Holy, Unholy, or Spirit damage. Making way more room for fluff for what you're actually a Champion of. Arcane, Occult, or Primal Champion could be interesting tho...
They talked some more about Kineticist at PaizoCon in the past hour. Not too much more info, but they confirmed that>Elemental Blasts are now 1-to-2 action attack rolls that run off of CON>Dual Elemental Impulses now exist>Kinetic Aura is still around, though something called Base Kinesis exists over Adapt Element.>A feat called Versatile Blasts let you add additional elemental damage to your base blast, so cold for water, electric for metal, so on and so forth.
>official centaur art looks kind of like Maeshiningchads win again
Does the 2e beginner box have errata?
>>88997220>It's simply better than all the alternativesIt's not, Paizo-fans are just retarded.
>>89000014Minotaurs are large by default! Yes!
Flat-footed seems to have been replaced by "off-guard".
>>88998090So basically you're saying that no-one should ever play a caster.
Interested to get my play group into pathfinder 2e, however with the new core books coming out is it worth purchasing the existing books or would it be better to just wait until october when the new core book releases?
>>88998658>if you can use the EITR rulesWhat's EITR?
>>89000688Great, now we will mix it up with the Starfinder Off-target and Off-kilter
>>89000688Did someone complain? Flatfooted people get out of selective service, they don't need more pandering.
>>89000918OGL term probably
>>89000918>>89000967Most likely OGL ye, would be funny if they just took every term and ran it through thesaurus.
Minotaurs and Centuars being large is cool
>>89000354Errata for what?Lots of stuff in the beginner's box isn't the same as the actual versions, i.e. the rats don't have disease but the mechanics are the same
>the goddess of prostitutes looks like THAToh no no no no
>>89001467A giant wasp?
>>89000878Elephant in the roomGives people a bunch of basics like Weapon focus or annoying shit like Combat Expertise for free, but it's also a bit dexfaggy as well
>>89001592>>89000878biggest one though is consolidating the "Improved maneuver" feats honestly
>>89000688I hope they did a little more with the conditions to make them more caster friendly.
>>89002133They're doing something about the condition removal ones at least. Some underperforming spells were tuned and or combined."They changed condition removal spells. They made them stronger and focused it around larger slews of conditions, like a mind condition thing vs. a body condition thing. Now, even if they don’t counteract, they can shut them off temporarily, which makes it easier to use".
>>88999431I would rather AoO just be fighter only and every class getting a strong thematic reaction instead.
>>89002133>more caster friendlyI guess it is important to have hope.But you should remember that the Hope was sealed inside Pandora's box for a reason.
>>88998406Dear god she is perfect
>>89000856Neither book are technically worth buying because all the rules are posted up on Nethys, but I would buy the Core Rulebook thanks to the fact that, while poorly organized, it contains both Player-Facing and GM-Facing rules. It is a good deal for first time GMs, then you can just read up the errata changes once it drops.>>89000688Another change noted in the Water Impulse section is that Positive/Healing tags have been replaced with Vitality.Also in a strange thing, there's plenty of Manipulate tags right next to Impulse, making me question if Impulse still have innate Concentrate/Manipulate with it.If it doesn't, it is a buff to Extract Element.
>>89002514Their talk about spells made it seem like they wanted to go away from components and keywords that are hidden behind other keywords. So there's a very real possibility that's what's going on."There’s a rules bandaid to rip off here: spell components were an OGL holdover, so they're being reworked. Paizo realized they could pull them out to make them more individual to the characters and put the manipulate and concentrate traits on the spells themselves so you don’t have to do weird things like look in the trait to discover a secret trait. It's more of a presentation change, nothing really changes, they just present it differently".
>>89000856I like the current Core Rulebook and that will be what I continue to use in my games. However, if I was just getting into the game I would wait for the new books. You can read the rules free online. Or pick up the Beginner Box as an introduction.
>>89000524You assume I'm a Paizo fan. I'm not. One can like a product and still not care about the company. You seem to give Paizo a lot more thought than I probably ever will in my lifetime.
>>88997305It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not playing a wizard and if I was I'd pick another spell probably.
>>89002823>me meYeah, you really do seem like some powerplaying fightercunt
>“Is there any good reason why PF2 design decided to be afraid of fly speeds at low levels to the point where it makes lore-abberant winged ancestries with no fly speed until much later, while starfinder has level 1 fly speeds and it has such a little effect on encounter balance?”Jason Bulmahn (Dir. Game Design) — Today at 5:19 PMI think we were very conservative about flying due to what it can do to a lot of encounters, especially against foes without much ranged attacks. That said, in Starfinder, that is far less of a concern, as guns are far more prevalent.>“Followup: Aren't the prevalence of thrown weapons, bows, and creatures with ranged natural attacks an almost identical parallel, though? Even back in the AD&D days, having a backup ranged weapon was always a standard suggestion”Jason Bulmahn (Dir. Game Design) — Today at 5:30 PMBy and large yes. But we did not know that at the time. Changing that is frankly too "big" for the remaster, so we will stick with it for now.
Makes you think when printing identical copies of spells just with a different element/flavour would be genuinely worth more than printing worse options lmao
>>89003021Just homebrew a catalyst that changes a spell to a certain damage type. I have enemies like elementals and other types of enemies like that drop them from time to time.
>>89003016>But we did not know that at the timeThe actual fuck?
>>89003068If one of my players wanted to reflavour any spells as anything else, I'd be fine with that, like chain lightning being a ball of flame jumping between foes or whateverAs long as anything mechanical remains the same other than element idc
>>89003078You see, Paizo were actually caught up in the Gap themselves too, and apparently have absolutely no fucking memory of designing and releasing Starfinder years before 2e and its APG/Ancestry Guide and later book releases, so Jason "Mousecord" Bulmahn has to act like a fucking moron and claim they didn't know lessons from Starfinder when making 2e. :^))))))))))
>>88989343>2e>wanna play a battledancer swashbuckler, background being a dancer with some puckish rogue flair so I pick entertainer>except both battledancer and entertainer give fascinating performanceUnbased. Musical Prodigy it is I guess? Or maybe charmer would be better.
>>89003016Am I the only one that likes long duration flying to be restricted to higher levels? It's such a powerful mobility tool
I know if I play too many games during the week I'll burn out, but at this point Pathfinder is the highlight between all the drudgery these days.How many games each week/month do you anons do?
>>890036881 pf2, 1 other system per weekthank god we're close to wrapping up that campaign because I would much rather be playing more pf2
>>89003688One!As an observer. For the past two years, it was zero. My schedule is a wreck. I want to run a game but I'm not sure how to fit it in.
>>89003688once or twice a month, kind of a pain in the ass to coordinate with everyone working shifts
>>89003688none because it's so hard to find a game that isn't 5e.Unfortunately I don't have a local game shop or friends nearby that play TTRPGs either so I have to settle for online and it's been hell just trying to find a 2e game. I'm so sick of 5e it hurts
>>890036803D combat is also an utter chore to run, both digitally and physically. Distances are a pain, calculating AOEs gets more complicated, 2e's "upwards is difficult terrain" shit is a pain in the ass, its all just a massive pain.
>>890036881 PF2E game, 1 PF1E game usually a week usually. But schedule/life shit can cause the PF1 games to go on hiatus sometimes.
>>89003919just have a trigonometry calculator handy
>>89003919Some systems take the “pick whichever length or height is longer for distance” system but then creating a height difference is always a good thing if you outrange the enemy and other messy thingsHaving wings and flight is a valid character fantasy but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be level restricted
>>89003688was gming 3 playing 2, but now one of the games is swapping to the other gm's campaign so it's gonna be gming 2 playing 3. weekly
where did the memegames go.
>>89004684Memegames died years ago anon.
>>89004714But why? What killed them? I need to know!
>>89004723A combination of cabals no longer making it fun for the rest of us to keep track of what new nonsense the latest eceleb in training was trying to cook up as well as the simple fact that as all the good players got taken up by the existing games there weren't any left for any new games.
>>89004747what if there was a new cabal, for newfags
>>89004756gargle my new caballs
>>89003688I was doing 2 PF2e games a week for a while. One offline. One online. I found it a bit much to handle though. I'm not a social person and I have trouble handling all the back and forth between sessions. Honestly if I could get one more player that was really chill I'd be happy. I don't want another player that feels like homework. I'd rather not play the game at all than make it stressful.
>>89003680No, you're not the only one, but I've noticed younger players tend to like superhero stuff a lot, so it's no surprise unrestricted flying is popular. I've even seen some old guys have fits over magic being restricted at lower levels. The whole mentality of the hobby has changed over the years. Low level play isn't what it used to be.
>>889893431e. How do I make a flamethrower in an early firearm environment? Gunchemist loading bombs into scatter guns? Duct tape a wand of burning hands to a musket?
>>89004994https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Alchemical%20cartridge%20(dragon%27s%20breath)there's even a gunslinger archetype based around using itbut it's horrible
>>89005010>but it's horribleJust how bad is it? Anything else I can do to more efficiently shoot loads of sticky white phosphorus onto disgusting orcs?
>>89004935What kind of stuff do they message you about that drains ya? I get questions once in a blue moon from a player and kind of wish they messaged me more between sessions. I'd probably feel more comfortable doing downtime in a discord chat if I knew they were tuned in pretty well.
>>89004714No way, Trouser Serpent's Skull just started up and it's a certified banger.
>>89005036dragon's breath cartridges misfire if you roll a 1 on any of the damage dicethe archetype turns that into needing 2 rolls of 1 for a misfire, seems like a bonus no?EXCEPT it adds dice as you level up to the dragon's breath without increasing the number of 1's you need to roll, so by the time you hit your final damage upgrade you have a 33% chance of misfire on every single shot you take Misfire that cannot be reduced by any means what so ever ontop of that it also gets rid of gun training so you're not even going to hit things properlyoh and the big "high damage" ability it has adds even more dice to the attack, which just makes you misfire even more
>>89005113What the actual fuck, how does anyone write something this bad?
I wonder how extensive these changes will be.I was looking forward to making a character and hunting for a group but I really would rather not have to re-learn the system after only 2 months or so.
>>89004994Gunchemist is just flat out the best/most fun gun archetype in 1e
>>89005128someone thought "hey adding more damage dice is fun"without even trying to do the mathas it stands it's literally the worst gunslinger archetype in existence, replacing your WIS dependency with a CHA dependency is another cherry ontop, so not only does it fuck itself over in offense, it also fucks it's Will save and Perception over oh and you get bombs, which would be cool, if it wasn't at character level -4 and you didn't get any alchemist discoveries other than explosive bombsoh and on further top of that they don't add DEX to damage with firearms, and they need to spend a grit point to get CHA to damage on even a single shot which they can only take with dragon's breath, which has 33% chance of misfire
>>89005131The way things are shaping up, I think if you really wanna start now without relearning much later, just play a low level game and run one of the martials that isn't likely to change too much.
>>89005146>>89005158Other than obvious shit to enhance normal alchemist bombs, is there anything that helps alchemical ordinance/gunchemist more than normal?
>>89005195Mage Shot is your bullet of choice against harder targets once you've got levels and money under your belt. They qualify for Cartridge Savant
>>89003449I would just eat the redundancy or ask to take a different performance feat like virtuosic.
>>89003016I'm not gonna bitch and moan about it, I mean the books even have variant rules for low level flight.What I do hope they get rid of is all the retarded acrobatics checks for flight. I can't imagine ANYONE uses them. Bring back the Hover trait too, it's weird it's missing. Without it things like Ghosts are technically meant to use a single action a turn to not fall to the ground.
>Dwarves have 20ft>Elves and Half-Elves have 30ftThis seems fucked balance wise
Now I'm not saying this is busted but a five level dip into the actually useful part of being a Cleric in return for full spellcasting is pretty OP especially considering it's an archetype which replaces nothing meaning you could take it with any version of the Cleric you want just for the shits and gigs.
Using rods instead of traditional weapons in 1e intrigues me. I know the aerialists rod and rod of lordly might have adaptable forms suitable for combat, but are there any other fun options? Would you allow someone to enhance the rod itself as a weapon? Any archetypes that enhance rods?
>>89005997Lesser Merciful metamagic rod with the Shikigami Style feats, you don't need anything else
>>89006175Why that rod specifically?
It's so over. Actually cringe that they've decided to go this way instead of pulling up other crit specs. Well, I guess clearing up bow crit spec is still on the table with making the "could otherwise escape without effort" more relevant.
>>89006349No, this needed to happen. Fighter power needs a heavy slap down.
>>89006349Based, maybe someones actually going to use a fucking sword for once now. Maybe a spear. Wowee.
>>88998401Which is good. We don't have spells yet, but look at kineticist's impulses, a bunch of them doesn't have manipulate trait.
>>89006467>overflow is still in>on 3 action impulses no lessWelp
>>89006537We don't know how gather elements works though, and given the removal of manipulate from some impulses I fully expect it to not have it either.I just want kineticist to be good and fun
>>89006543>We don't know how gather elements works though, and given the removal of manipulate from some impulses I fully expect it to not have it either.Manipulate doesn't matter in this case. If Gather Elements is in which I fully expect to be with Overflow being referenced and Extract Element still being a thing, then Kineticist is still fucked by action economy when a lot of damage impulses demand 2-3 actions + 1 action to Gather Element. It was the shittiest part of the playtest Kineticist and it looks to be still in, with damage of what's presented not comparing favorably to even casters.
>>89006579Follows the magus mode of spellstrike + recharge being an ideal, turn but the reality of play being such that you are going to break that up over multiple turns and be forced to weave in strides and strikes as factors allow.
>>89006607Except magus is not a good model to follow, his optimal action routine is the most rigid in the game that prides itself on flexibility. Even if we were to take lessons from it, magus gets a lot of reward for following this repetitive playstyle and gets tools to relax it somewhat in case of melee magi. Contrast it to what's been shown and known. There are no ways to relax the Gather Element requirement as of yet. These water impulses are on the level of spells but scale worse and extra action doesn't bring any extra payoff. Look at Tidal Hands, it's the same shit as Burning Hands with worse damage and the same positioning issues that come with cones, meaning that you would need to move to place it well, making it impossible to recharge on the same turn. Driving Rain sort of has extra utility but takes you 3+1 actions and has piddly damage for that cost. Call the Hurricane is on par with the Fireball of the same level, but scales worse and emanation brings targeting issues meaning your ass will need to move, and once again is 2+1+maybe move. Impenetrable Fog is just Solid Fog but with less AoE until 14th level and costs you 3+1 actions. Glacial Prison is powerful but as a single target incapacitation effect AND overflow will see absolutely no use. Ride The Tsunami is 3+1 impulse that you can't actually use because you can't move to aim its cone\line and it's not party-friendly AND it's worse damage than a basic Fireball of that level. Barrier of Boreal Frost is just Wall of Ice for 3+1. The only mildly positive thing about water impulses I see is that its AoE heal is on the same level as the default 3-action heal and cone is a bit better than emanation as you might be able to make it avoid enemies. The cope will be "but he can do it all day!" which is just an excuse for poorly thought out gameplay.
>>89006733Im hoping they added a burn mechanic that lets skip gather elements.
>>89006733What do you mean with magus? Are you one of the players who thinks you should spell strike every turn?
>>89006765>implying you shouldn't>implying spellstriking every round isn't what props up ranged magus
>>89006797Obviously it props up ranged magus because you’re just a worse eldritch archer and ranged martials want to be in turret modeIn melee you’re going to cause more problems for your team than solve them by spamming spellstrike while immobile
>>89006810>you’re just a worse eldritch archer
>>89006751It would be reasonable. The playtest had a once per ten minute reaction that allowed you to counteract and gather from an effect hitting you with the matching trait.Restricted to dedicated gate though so you couldn't just nullify whatever you wanted, you would have to be a fire kineticist counteracting an alchemists fire for example.Some sort of restricted burn would be fun enough for the class considering it is con key score anyway and with giving up burn a lot of that thematic identity goes away.What I imagine is you will inflict drained on yourself.A kineticist on drained 4 is more or less any other class on drained 2, but drained still sucks.
speaking of magus, I imagine focus points will come into play here to condense something. Maybe even remove an action from impulses considering how many of them are 3 action
>>89006733It’s so weird that they’re terrified of letting aoe be good or cones not suck or even damage not to fall off a cliff with those scaling numbers, is kineticist just going to do fuck all because we’re not allowed to take fighters niche of doing damage?
>>89006867>doing damage?Doing damage with weapons. A fighter without a weapon, or with an ineffective weapon can't do damage.Most of the selling point of kineticist is going to be the impulse feats like walking on water or flight. Or that fire one where you explode, die, and are reborn.
>>89006887Oh so they get utility light that a fighter can replicate with a single wizard dedication and scrolls? NiceYet another class dies since nothing can do more damage than a retard with a flail
>>89006887Oh it's another "it's a support class!" episode, love me some reruns.
>>89006887Yes, but those impulse feats are from the Spell Design Ghetto, which means they'll be vastly undertuned in one or more of damage, accuracy, or action economy, rather than the Chad Fighter Feat Palace, where you may pay a single action to do a Strike + effective spell effect targeting AC with the best accuracy in the game.
Might as well call it fucking pathfighter. Codzilla bros not like this.
>>89006917Debating on homebrewing removing the fighter +2 to hitting everything and seeing how that affects balance
>>89006825It does suck but i would make it a special after 10 minutes of rest it fucks off type of Drained.
>>89006949Despite popular belief it isnt the +2 that makes the fighter super broken. Its the fact that it has no fucking weaknesses. The rest of its kit and the power of its feats is just head and shoulders above every other class. If the fighter had the +2 but the rest of it was pretty meh then it would be fine.
>>89007007No it's just the +2, and fighters being the God-Kings of crit riders like the crushing rune and phantasmal doorknob.No one gives a shit about getting fighter dedication and picking up dazing blow.Taking away the +2 just makes them boring champions/monks.
>>89007007Personally I’m fine with fighter feats being really good and strong, being versatile and good at whatever you want to specialise in is good fighter designJust having a flat +2 chance to hit and crit over every other class annoys me because why do they also need that?Tbh I’d rather bump every other class up to fighter progression, and add a native +2 on guns as they’re already worse bows and gunslinger gets fighter proficiency Should weaken dedications tooNow if only casters had a single decent feat in their entire selection
>>89006887>Doing damage with weapons. A fighter without a weapon, or with an ineffective weapon can't do damage.Please dont fucking pretend that this would happen more than once in an entire campaign.>Most of the selling point of kineticist is going to be the impulse feats like walking on water or flight. Or that fire one where you explode, die, and are reborn.The monk has access to most of these things and is still treated like a full martial. Enough of this "but its a versatile class so it shouldnt do normal levels of damage" shit. People wanted a ranged elemental blaster but we cant have that because the bow fighter will fucking bitch about it.
>>89007036>Taking away the +2 just makes them boring champions/monks.Hmmm wow it sure does seem like someone who just picked up weapons and started training being weaker than a God’s champion or someone expertly trained at a monastic order sounds about rightNot to mention that both those classes have strict codes they have to follow
>>89007036No it isnt. The fighter having a +2 would be fine if it also didnt have AoO at level 1, being basically immune to the frightened condition, access to more and better feats than other martials, high hp, great saving throws across the board, high ac and gaining psuedo legendary perception while the fucking druid is stuck at expert.
>>89007038The new feat where they gain all focus points back after 10 minutes?
>>89007110If you’re talking about what’s in the remaster, every class now gets 3 to start and can spend 10 mins getting one back if they haven’t used one, i.e 30 mins for them all back Spending 10 minutes for 3 back hardly matters if the whole party is waiting 30 minutes
>>89007100You just described a paladin with aura of courage?Oh you're the druid faggot. Sup I guess.
>>89007121Do they start with 3? i did not know that.
>>89007126Ah your a no game retard.And no im a GM who thinks its retarded that a druid only gets expert in perception for committing the crime of being a caster.
>>89007121I don't think they get 3 to start, that doesn't change.The only thing that changes is now you can refocus up to 3 times in a row without feat tax.There will probably be balancing changes to help this.
>>89007127>>89007143Oh my bad sorry, you don’t start with 3, still though it’s very easy to get up to 3 and the refocusing feats are even less useful now
>>89007139Newsflash, you can change that at your table so it's a non issue.You've forgotten that the first rule of pathfighter is to have fun.
>>89007148I'd go so far as to call them trap feats.
>>89007139Caster perception being locked to shit is yet ANOTHER stacking caster nerf because they don’t want casters to cripple an enemy with a debuff before they get a turn, except high saves, low proficiency, incap, etc etc means none of that is possible anyway
Im pretty sure i heard micheal sayre say that fighter was perfection. So its clear that the design time are a bunch of fighterfags who intentionally choose to have fighter supremacy over all other classes.
>>89007151I honestly don't know if thats sarcasm anymore.
>>89007195It means it shouldn't be getting any buffs.
>>89007195He's right and it is. The class exists to expose powergamers and to prop up Timmy.If you have to regularly remind a particular player to use their feats, then them playing a fighter as published is ideal.>>89007200I think all it's getting in player core is the open trait removed. Which is a non-trait that exists on like three fighter feats.
>>89007195>>89007200Unfortunately for you fellas, it’s getting buffed!Apparently the “open” tag (has to be the first open or attack action of the turn) was commonly ignored (?) because players can’t read I suppose (?)So open is getting canned because fighters need more versatility
>>89007218>it’s getting buffed!It's a fucking nothing buff.
>>89007243It’s still a buff
>>89006234Can someone please elaborate on >>89006175?
[2e] What are some good feats to take as a fighter with a bastard sword?Dual-Handed Assault seems like an obvious choice (since it's specifically designed to work with weapons with the Two-Hand trait), but other than that I don't know whether to take feats for one-handed weapons (e.g Combat Grab, Dazing Blow) or two-handed weapons (e.g Power Attack, Improved Knockdown).
>>89007536>I don't know whether to take feats for one-handed weapons or two-handed weaponsThis is basically just the choice you have to make, due to putting another hand on being an action, you're only ever really going to swap from 2h to 1h during combat and not visa versa, so in that case do you just want big fucking damage 2h or 1h sword and board/free hand?
>>89007218There are like 20 things with the Open trait and half of them are Stances and the other half are 2-3 actions that you don't want to do with MAP anyway. If a trait is useless and doesn't really do anything then they should remove it to reduce trait bloat.
>>89007536One-handed all the way, Dual-Handed Assault lets you have the power of Two-handing while having the versatility of One-handed feats
>>89007571I was mostly planning on beginning every fight two-handing, and only ever swapping to one hand if I feel the need to Grapple, Shove, or Trip somebody. Based on what you're saying, it sounds like I should just take the typical two-handed feats?
>>89007597Probably yeah, and go with a trip/shove weapon instead
>>89007647But I like swords, though.
>Druid and Cleric focusi require you to blow an action to take out your focusThis is outright worse than the material pouch, what's the point?
>>89007656Based, fuck the 2h and just go with a free hand then if you want to stay versatileTake note of the dual-handed assault feat for big smacks
>>89007536Wrestler dedication at 2 is a bump to expert athletics and a free titan wrestler and then opens up whirling throw later if you want to go hard on using actual skill actions like trip and grapple rather than knockdown or combat grab.If you want to play predominantly 2handed then it's better to have a weapon with the property you want like a scythe for trip.>>89007659You should be holding your focus. Take emblazon armament.
>Blasting! The playtest analysis for the kineticist gets into it, in short they use the same class dc of everything else, there’s an impulse attack roll like spell attacks that uses your constitution. Some elements also have healing ability, Water and Wood have that sort of thing. >There’s a versatile blast feat that lets you use electricity or cold, a wood kineticist could wield poison damage, metal could deal electricity. Water can be bludgeoning or cold
>>89007710>Take emblazon armament.I'm playing a druid.
>>89007857Real shit now, do you think kineticists will get fundamental runes or naturally scale as they do?
>>89007874Verdant Weapon
>>89007874Were both wrong!>A focus is an object that funnels the magical energy of the spell. The spell gains the manipulate trait and requires you to either have a free hand to retrieve the focus listed in the spell or already be holding the focus in your hand. As part of Casting the Spell, you retrieve the focus (if necessary), manipulate it, and can put it away again if you so choose.Page 303. Seems you just need a free hand.
>>89007424>>89006234it's the cheapest CL17 item in the game, only shared by other 1500 cost metamagic itemsas for the reason why Merciful in particular? Because slapping someone around in a very much lethal fashion with that rod is hilarious
>>89007939Check the sidebar above that.
>>89007925Apparently the damage dice will auto-scale without runes, no idea on the accuracy. Handwraps probably...
>>89007971Only relevant if you need to substitute material for focus I think, for instance if you lose your pouch.There's a single spell in the primal list that has both focus and material components and it's plane shift.
>>89007925>Gate attenuators are a magic item for kineticists that act both add grant 1/day spells to the kineticist and give them up to a +2 item bonus to their impulse attack rolls.
>>89008103jesus christ do they need to add more jank 1/day magic items to bandaid shit instead of flat out incorporating fundamentals into natural progression?
>>89008008No, It's written badly as fuck, but the POINT of a divine and primal focus is to substitute material components. However, unlike using a material pouch, taking out a primal focus takes an action.For some fucking reason.In fact, I don't think I understand what the specific "focus component" is, written under spell components. What if a Wizard wants to cast plane shift, what the fuck does he use as a focus?
>>89007925>Class DC goes up to Legendary, attack is based on class dc>two action blasts add CON to damageLooks okayish for now
>>89008112Just a magical doodad that's expensive."Foci tend to be expensive, and you need to acquire them in advance to Cast the Spell."
>>89008137Nta but wow how useless is that line for both players and GMsShould a GM be setting a cost? Do you need to go out of your way to find one?
>>89008103>>89008118So what your telling me it gets the Spellcaster's jank ass proficency to attack but also gets item bonuses to attack rolls? So paizo are just admitting spellcasters need spell attack runes and are still not releasing them?
I really fucking hope the remaster just ditches all the fucking material shit for spellcasting.
>Play druid>Have a shield and a weapon>Want to cast 3 action spell>Need to spend 2 actions to get out focus, effectively wasting my turn so I can cast the spell on the next turnSeems really shit.
>>89008213Verdant Weapon
>>89008112Yeah I see now. Focus components are their own thing and a focus isn't meant to sub for a material component, it merely can do so in a pinch.Like a cleric casting heal with three actions can swap their holy symbol in for the material component rather than using a free hand to access their component pouch. It's either or.Material just means have a free hand.Somatic in pf2e doesn't require a free hand either.A wizard would use the tuning fork associated with the target plane that the spell requires.
>>89008155Nooo anon you don't understand! Spellcasters were allowed to have their *checks notes* FUN in pf1 and 5e! They have to be exclusively buff bots that are replaceable by magic items and run out of spells after 2 fights!
>>89008213Releasing an item is a free action.
>>89008235>Material just means have a free handIf you have a Material Pouch, yes.If you aren't already holding your focus as a druid or cleric though, you're fucked. Wait until next turn for your 3 action heal.
>>89008281You have a material pouch.This is like asking what to do when the fighter leaves his platemail at home.
>>89008213Why do you have a weapon anyway? You ain't Cleric, you ain't PRETENDING to hit jackshit.Just hold your mistletoe or don't cast a 3-action spell.Sometimes y'all make your own problems.>>89008169That's actually pretty likely to happen, as when they were talking about the Spell Component removal, they didn't actually brought up the Focus or Material traits.It is likely that spells that have specific components like Raise Dead will still have them, but any 3 action spell will just have Concentrate and Manipulate, especially since Material was just redundant anyhow.>>89008155it only going up to +2 might actually mean that there is something for spellcasters, cause it actually doesn't much sense for them to stop one point behind real martials. There isn't a logical reason why Kineticist would have a smoother progression than full casters otherwise, so crossing my fingers.
>>89008213STOP TRYING TO USE SUMMONS ALREADY GOSH
Anyone can confirm what people say when they bring up Warpriest would have Master weapon proficiency at Level 19? I feel like I am watching a game of telephone in real-time, cause I don't think Paizo said when Warpriest would get Master Deity Weapon Proficiency, and 19 is not only an insane level to get any proficiency boost, it doesn't even make sense in terms of scaling. Casters don't gain weapon and spell proficiency at the same time and Warpriest progression always been faster than normal casters.
>>89008155We don't know how kineticist's progression will go. I hope they don't get Legendary at fucking level 19 or at least get Master at 13
>>89008389Maybe they thought they said it would be part of the final doctrine. Pretty sure it will be earlier, maybe put it at 15th and move Juggernaut to 11th is my bet. Only found this in the writeup and can't be bothered to watch through the VOD to find it."They had the opportunity to address the warpriest too: “what can we do to make it easier and more attractive”. There was a perception issue because the cloister cleric could use resources to get armor, so they gave the warpriest more unique things. People are going to be excited that the warpriest's doctrine gives them master proficiency with the deities favored weapon and expert in martial weapons. They added a bunch of new feats and spiced up existing feats. “Why play a warpriest when I could be a sentinel cloistered cleric?” There’s now a warpriest heavy armor feat inside cleric so you don’t need an archetype to get that anymore."
>>89008389People saying it's at 19 are fudding. Could be the same dude having a fit even.
pf2can you Avert Gaze from a hidden creature?
>>89008492Yeah, closing your eyes or looking down at the ground doesn't require you to know what you're trying to avoid seeing
>>89008492Yes, but I'd probably rule that a hidden creature can't really use most abilities that would require you to look at something since they are well-hidden, and most of those effects have the visual trait. If it's a passive effect they might have to do the save when they succeed the perception check.
Hey, i'm playing a Dwarf Mountain Stance monk in Pathfinder 2E and i've got a Free Archetype now that i'm level 2. Question is, is there an easy way to see which of these lead into useful stuff? Something like the Martial Artist dedication would sound right but as far as I can see it's completely useless to me baseline
Has there been anything about Starfinder on Paizocon yet?
>>89008594https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=67Yeah
>>89008594Yeah martial artist dedication as a monk is redundant.Hit up archives of nethys. Good pick is probably wrestler since its a bit more resistance to grab and swallow, and some skill stuff, then it has some unique grapple attacks like suplex.
The hand shit is way worse if you're a bard.
>>89008449>>89008458They specifically said master in diety weapon as a final doctrine which is level 19.
>>89009159Bard-fags don't get to complain; their focus components provide stat boosts, Summon Instrument lets them make them out of thin air, and there's an entire weapon dedicated to being used as one -- the Battle Lute.Y'all motherfuckers been eating since launch, shut the fuck up about starving.
Your caster is never making an attack with weapons ever and you don't even get AoO. I fucking hate 2e as a game but even I know this hand switching for focus nonsense is complete bullshit.Your druid is never holding a weapon ever. You're never making AoO. You're not even using the shitty spell attack cantrips like gouging claw. You're holding a shield in one hand and that's fucking it, you've got Gloves of Storing on for consumables like EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ENTIRE GAME because the action penalties for taking shit out mid fight are so hilariously punishing.If your druid is holding a weapon and whining that he needs actions to switch hands to grab a focus or material component pouch or something, the solution is to drop the useless fucking weapon that you can't even afford to keep updated with fundamental and property runes and throw it in the goddamn trash because if you wanted to hit shit with weapons you would be playing a class that doesn't get stuck with Expert only forever.>But I want to play a druid/cleric/Bard and still be good with weapon attacks and use them!so do I, that's why I play fucking starfinder or 1e.
New thread>>89009437>>89009437>>89009437
>>89009335Starfinder handedness rules also suck pretty bad. I mean, a fucking swift action to remove one hand from your rifle and another to put it back?Though it helps that there are races with six fucking arms, and that you can slap on armor mods that hold your weapons for you.
>>89005103Memegames without the memes are just games, anon.
