What is worse, HFY or Eldritch cthulhu lovecraft insignificance of humanity
>>88973408Neither, both are great and so is mixing them.
>>88973408>insignificance of humanity>Implying people actually use this very important theme when they have anything to do with anything "Lovecraft"
>>88973408>What is worseRandom shitpoting on hobby boards by blatant outsiders.
>>88973408Both have their place. I like the idea that humanity is just a blip in existence and everything will go back to some nightmare hellscape when we've gone.
>>88973408>for beginning readersI assume they took out the part where the evil cult is made up of mixed race people and how the protag's uncle ran into a black person and was never seen again?
Neither of them are fully comprehended by the people using them.
>>88975044Surprinsgly, no.It's written like a Dr. Seuss book, and the drawing clearly depict the characters as they are described in the original. But the whole thing is in verses and what not, so it mostly just gives you the essential of the book. Pretty good stuff.
>>88973408Both have potential, both attract colossal brainlets who squander said potential.
>>88973408Lovecraft is worse because too often the result is creative sterility.
>>88973408The latter, easily.Derleth did it right though. Seemingly insignificant humans playing a prominent role in the war between extragalactic beings.
>>88973408insignificance that ends up playing into hfy is the bestI would say delta green is a good example of that, yes, the enemy is cosmic, beyond comprehension, seemingly inevitable and impregnable, but good men willing to give their lives can buy us just a little more time, continually struggling in the hopes one day we'll make it
>>88976374In DG humanity is also far from incompetent, as is the case in actual Lovecraft tales as well. Mythos horrors are often hostile and powerful but humanity has ways of dealing with them, and it's always been a meme that they "drive you crazy". What is meant by that is that nobody believes you and society institutionally gaslights you for speaking the truth, so you seem crazy, but you're completely sane and rational in reality. Of course there are some feeble minded people in the world and in Mythos stories but that's not the norm. Lovecraft just has incredibly purple prose that obfuscates the intelligence, courage, and fortitude of his characters.
>>88976423>Purple proseI've always preferred blue prose.
>>88975987Derleth was an idiot that missed the point of the cosmic horror in HPL and the rest, and inserted a retarded good vs. evil gods background that did not belong.
HFY to me always ends up seeming way more asspull/obnoxious because its us writing the stories, and we usually win anyway even when its not explicitly HFY.
>>88973448Fuck, I opened this thread just to say this. Both are fine, but absolutely fucking mixing them.
>>88976746That's your opinion. I think the "Mythos" is unusable without him. Not just quality-wise, but literally. Without Derleth Lovecraft may've been wholly forgotten.
>>88977202Without L Sprague De Camp both HPL and Robert E Howard would have been forgotten too, yet his own work was mediocre.Derleth was decent, but his christian-inspired dualism dilluted the setting and missed the point of cosmic horror.
>>88977547Derleth preserved Lovecraft's stories and gave people who want dualism or optimism an option. You aren't required to like his stories or use his version of the Mythos.There are a dozen or more different Lovecraft canons.
>>88977134I recognize that brat. Did the zombie chaperone finally subject her to correction she deserves?
>>88977602>gave people who want dualism or optimism an optionHe wasn't writing fanfiction or alternate stories, he inserted his own biases in the setting that went against the core themes and presented it all as "The" mythos.Sandy Petersen is a mormon but he was smart enought to not let that spoil his work in the TTRPG that popularized the Mythos again in the 80s and onwards.
>>88975044The evil cult stays in, but the nautical looking negro is changed to just a regular sailor. Though giving he meter its hard to blame him.
>>88977623Based ToT poster
>>88977806I don't get the sense he ever tried to pass his work off as the only Mythos fiction, but then again he's the main creator of said Mythos. He preserved LC's work and stitched it together. I guess it's subjecticve. I want a dualistic, optimistic Mythos so it doesn't bother me. Those who don't don't have to have it. There are many different "canons" to Lovecraft. Derleth's is what I personally prefer.
>>88973408Lovecraft is typically a better writer than internet power fantatists so I'll say he's better. But then again, poser "lovecraftian" bullshit like August Derleth is worse than reddit tier.
Derlethchads rise up.
>>88979270Based. I find the "default" mythos asinine.
>>88979504I find the very concept of a "mythos" insipid. Lovecraft's stories only focused on one thing at a time, tossing references to each other for atmosphere and verisimilitude, not because it pleases your autistic "worldbuilding" habits.
Using Outer Gods as unbeatable campaign/story antagonists is incredibly dull and there's a reason why Lovecraft almost never did it.If the point of Nyarlathotep, Yog-Sothoth, etc. is that they are too vast to view humanity as significant, then their actions should not have an intentional significant impact upon humanity in all but the most unique of circumstances. Most of the story/campaign should instead be devoted to fighting their worshippers, who are contrasted to the Outer Gods from the start by the fact that they can be beaten.The alternative, which is both a better source of dramatic tension and more philosophically interesting, is that the Outer Gods are so vast that they DO care about even individual humans, because they view each sentient being as equally significant rather than equally insignificant. The horror of this approach therefore emerges from the futility of combatting a nigh-omnipotent force who, in spite of its power, sees you as a potentially dangerous obstacle to be manipulated or removed. This was the approach taken in Through the Gates of the Silver Key, and there's a reason why that's one of the best works Lovecraft helped create. Dream-Quest is the same way.
>>88979270>>889795044chan will be contrarian about fucking anything. You annoying niggers probably drink saltwater because fresh water is for reddit.
>>88979890Go back to Calcutta, Joshi.
Dead Space 2 basically cribbed Call of Cthulhu's notes but with STEMfags rather than artfags. Only artistically-minded people are meaningfully sensitive to Cthulhu's emanations, to horrible effect. Only mathematically intelligent people are meaningfully sensitive to Marker-building instructions, to horrible effect.
>>88975044>tfw when the negro is nautical looking
>>88979916Its also worth noting, that CoC had normalfags be entirely ignorant to the stirrings of Cthulhu, and thus more or less unaffected by it.Whereas Dead Space had normalfags be too stupid to understand the markers messages, and thus the most susceptible to its mental invasions. To gruesome, necromorphic effect.Sort of like how in the CoC TTRPG high intelligence is bad for sanity rolls because you can better understand what exactly is going on.
>>88979916>Dead Space 2 basically cribbed Call of Cthulhu's notesThe game practically screams at you that it's a 2001 rip-off. Why do you fags keep saying this? Did you simply never read a book that wasn't harry potter? Or did you watch a video essay that said as much?
>>88973408Bad HFY is definitely worse than bad lovecraft ripoff.
Apples to oranges, but I sincerely doubt there's any HFY or HFY-like work that's even close to as good as Lovecraft's own writing.Before I read Lovecraft I didn't think words written on paper could ever be scary. He's the one author who can actually make me feel fear. The scene in "The Other Gods" where the protagonist is climbing up a mountain whose peak is covered in light and mist, hearing his old master, who climbed to the peak of the mountain to see the dance and hear the song of the gods of earth, scream in terror bout the presence of the other gods as he falls into the sky is fucking horrifying.
Aye, you elves live tenfold longer than us. Your greatest warriors and wizards tower over ours. You know the ancient ways of the forest and all its spirits.But it matters not. We outnumber you. For every child you bear, we birth ten. The death of one elf is a devastating loss that brings you inconsolable grief. The death of one human is a drop in the pond, rectifiable with some fucking.We are humanity, and we are legion.Oh, and by the way? You elves have such frail bodies. One of us walks into an elven village as healthy as a horse, and a hundred of you come down with a fatal disease. You call yourselves long-lived, yet the mere presence of a human casts down your cities with plague? Pathetic.- The King of Humania, before massacring the elven capital with an army outnumbering the elven citizens 10:1
>>88984600Aye, you orcs outnumber us. Your greatest warriors and masters are more vicious than ours. You steep to depths and ruthlessness that can only be described as demonic.But it matters not. We will overcome you. For every ten warriors you field, we only need one. The death of ten orcs is a result of a single charge of one our mounted men-at-arms. The death of one human warrior requires a lake of blood for your kind, rectifiable with some fucking while you will no longer be able to replace your forces without your masters.We are humanity, and we are superior.Oh, and by the way? You orcs have such aversion to sunlight. One of us walks into your camp during day as triumphant as a demigod, and a hundred of you cower in fear. You call yourselves fighters and warriors, yet the mere presence of the sun halts your advance like a raging river? Pathetic.- The King of Gondor, before massacring the orcish forces with an army a hundredth the size of the orcish host
>>88979715>I find the very concept of a "mythos" insipid.So did Lovecraft. 'Yog-Sothery' was a tongue-in-cheek term.
>>88984583Different strokes, but while HFY can be annoying at times too, I never found Lovecraft's works especially scary. "Cosmic, fatalistic insignificance" is annoying too, and unlike HFY, it comes off as pretentious to me. I'm sure in Lovecraft's day it came off differently, whereas now you can find any number of writers online with avatars of Mario or Sonic emo-ified talking about how nothing matters and humanity is worthless.
>>88992287Have you actually read
>>88979860What do you think of 40k where the Ruinous powers are never actual characters but more like an ambient corrupting background force, like radiation, that manifests itself into the lives of different characters, tempting them with easy solutions. (In the good stories at least, not battle-brother chadius shot the slaaneshi human centipede 37 times)
>>88993889Chaos is a bit different in that it owes its existence to humanity. It's incredibly powerful, but isn't truly alien in the way traditional Lovecraft-inspired antagonists are (or attempt to be). It's a decent middle ground, especially since the Ruinous Powers' goals usually boil down to perpetuating their own existence. The reader always knows why Khorne does what he does, a far cry from Yog-Sothoth impregnating some rando in Massachusetts and the reader being forced to accept that there was probably SOME reason for it.
>>88993945Thats in the grand scheme of things, but usually when we see it from the perspective of characters it is just as incomprehensible as Yog sothoth.
