kill Lunars, behead Lunars, roundhouse kick Lunar into Magasta's Pool, slam dunk a Lunar baby into an uz's mouth, crucify filthy Lunars, defecate into Lunars food, launch Lunars into the sun, stir fry Lunars in a wok, toss Lunars into active volcanoes, urinate on Lunar's chariot, Judo throw Lunars into an elf forest, twist Lunars heads off, report Lunars to the Tax Demons, karate chop Lunars in half, curb stomp pregnant Lunars, trap Lunars in quicksand, Crush Lunars in the trash compactor, liquify Lunars in a vat of acid, eat Lunars, dissect Lunars, exterminate Lunars in a sack, stomp Lunar skulls with bronze boots, cremate Lunars in the hearth, lobotomized Lunars, mandatory abortions for Lunars, grind Lunar fetuses in the garbage disposal, drown Lunars in fried chicken grease, vaporize Lunars with rune magic, kick old Lunars down the stairs, feed Lunars to dinosaurs, slice Lunars with a broadsword.
>>88915537A pretty long way to say "We Are All Us".OP is a perfect example of a madman, a moony, someone that is one with the Lunar Way.
>>88915537A question for gloranthafags:What's it like to be so relentlessly mogged by mythic earth rq? I bet you wake up sweating, you duckfuckers.
>>88916525I've never heard of it in my life or seen it discussed anywhere
>>88918316>he's never played a fukken viking and died twice to a mammoth in one sessionmany such cases
>>88918341So it's just historical fantasy?
>>88918356it was just Vikings, Land of Ninja, and maybe one more because Avalon Hill bought the rights to RQ but not glorantha. Design Mechanism's Mythic setting books for Mythras are the sucessor. All great stuff
>>88918356Yes. Chaosium, Mongoose, and Design Mechanism all put out a bunch of historical fantasy setting books for RQ. Pretty easy to mix in stuff from Pendragon or Call of Cthulhu historical setting books too.Merrie England for robin hood.Wind on the Steppes for mongolia.Celestial empire for ancient China.Mythic Britain for 8th century britainMythic iceland.Multiple takes on Vikings and Japan.Pirates.I think there's a 3 musketeers france one.A couple for rome.One for greek myth IIRC.Just dig through archaeology and history and mythology books and repackage it as a game.Pretty good shit.If you pick another one with the right tech you can also grab a GURPS2 or GURPS3 earth setting book to use on the GM side if you want more details about japan or rome or whatever.As the other anon suggested, I agree they historical fantasy settings are more fun than Glorantha.
>>88916495Kill yourself Lunar
>>88919040I have asked mutiple people about how they convert GURPS stuff into RQ/BRP and they all say wing it, which makes th GURPS books just more expensive libary books intead of something useful.
>>88916525>>88919040What a great theory anon. Except for the fact that Runequest sold its best when Glorantha was the main setting. So while I agree mythic earth is also fun, why do the sale statistics suggest otherwise?
>>88921702I just wish they had proper products instead of setting art books, a farmed-out third party website and a long list of "In Production books which haven't moved for years" becuase they are too busy being old men who write CoC for the cash.
So which one of the Cults books are you most excited for, if any of them?
>>88916525>mogged by mythic earth rq?lmaoIf you actually want to upset Gloranthafags with RQ, you have to mention something less outrageously stupid.E.g. you have to focus on how RQ has been holding back and distorting Glorantha from the start and the brief revival the setting got coincided with them ditching RQ.But now that Stafford is gone, they are doomed to RQ until the end of days.
>>88921746The way I see it, they released their first few books then got hit with the death of Greg, the death of Steve, the distancing of Sandy, corona and shitty supply chains. I'm actually more surprised that we are getting 10 cult books all over the course of 2(?) years. I don't know if its because it was backlogged because of the aforementioned, but that's a lot of content all at once, even if it is all cult related. The plus side is that its all system agnostic so as >>88923713 says you can use it with any of the other systems that are centered on Glorantha.They still need to get the GM's guide out though. Regardless of reason or what else has been released in the meantime, the lack of a GM's guide 5 years in with no timeline in sight is a cardinal sin.
>>88923678None. They're all pozzed
>>88924849>I'm actually more surprised that we are getting 10 cult books all over the course of 2(?) years. I don't know if its because it was backlogged because of the aforementioned, but that's a lot of content all at once, even if it is all cult related.It was originally going to be one big book which was then changed to 2 books as they kept adding content. Then they realised they'd have a Guide to Glorantha 2: electric boogaloo of a huge and expensive set of books that only the most hardcore fans would buy so they were split into 10 books (which I honestly think they should have done from the start). All the written content for the books is done, it's just a matter of splitting it into each book and the work of layout and additional artwork for covers. They really want to finally get it out but are spacing it to get extra time for finishing touches and to give fans time to save money between each release. I just hope nothing goes wrong with the printing so we can finally get the books within the alloted timeline.
>>88925352The idea that they should devote effort to 10 full colour hardbacks is stupid when they can knock out a CoC black & white book very 3 months and actually generate content for players.At this point RQ is just a nostalgia thing for the old men who run it, and all we have to generate interest is Six Ages, which still only comes out once every 6 years.And the current head keeps regarding as Not Quite Canon.
Jeff said Six Ages is not the same level of canon as his/Stafford’s other works which is stupid because it’s literally drawing from them and filling a gap they never would care about.Yes KoDP doesn’t follow setting history, but Six Ages purports to.I think Jeff’s sick of people complaining about Elmal now that Six Ages squares the circle.
>>88930227Six ages is god time anyway. Its not even real history because it doesn't happen within history. KoDP is far more canonical than Six Ages ever could be.
Either have Yelmalio as the lesser sun forever and the gods as defined people who are individuals you can’t changeOr have gods as cultural entities who are malleable and there are many overlapping gods with Elmal being a Orlanthi sun god.Don’t half arse it by only insisting that some are real but they are pale reflections that coincidentally resemble your favourite part of older game canon. And only that bit has the power and how ignorant are you that you think that your canon could stand against his own canon in and out of the game.I think Six Ages squared this circle by implying the sun and fire gods are city gods who have a trinity-like relationship with each other.The Emperor Sun, his son Lightfore and his many variations.
Is this what RQ has become with no content?People angry about lore since no new scenarios are put out.
>>88930227Supposedly Elmal will be a subset of Yelmalio in the coming Solar book. Same base magic, different cult skills and associate cults/spells.
>>88934164That figures, I invented an elaborate explanation as to why Elmal is weaker than Yelmalio in the current age but no Jeff insists it’s his way despite him himself having written about how the Luanda had a hand in Yelmalio’s cult revival.My version is since in Glorantha, older and more pure rites have more magical power, Elmal couldn’t match the more pure Lightfore rites that Yelmalio still could and his cult among the Orlanthi wasn’t getting the full fire powers as his authority was increasingly subsumed by the other air cults over Time. He also couldn’t do the Rider rites because you need to be semi-nomadic for that.The Elmali were revolting against the Orlanth priesthood/kings, couldn’t live like Riders/Wheel and Yelmalio was more of Lightfore than Elmal was.
Alright, can someone explain the whole fucking Elmal-Yelmalio bullshit for me, please? I know I'm not the first to ask about it, but I just don't understand the reasons for it - in-universe, and out. I don't have the most in-depth, extensive understanding of Glorantha, but, from what I remember, the reason people in-universe changed to Yelmalio, is because he gave stronger magic - which seems like a weak-sauce, bullshit, completely-out-of-left-field reason for someone to change the object of their worship, in a setting like this. And, out-of-universe, it's because (Some) of the writers hate Elmal, for some reason? I really don't get it - despite seeing the arguments play out, again and again. Is there something I'm missing?
>>88934340Out of universe: Originally there was no Elmal, only Yelmalio. Greg added Elmal, which created some controversies in the Gloranthan lore and player community of the time. Current head of RuneQuest, Jeff, wants to remove the complications Elmal added, also they have a huge nostalgia boner for older RuneQuest which can be seen in some of the rules.In universe: Current lore paraphrased from posts by Jeff, so bear with me. Worship of Yelmalio spread in the Darkness all across Genertela, where he picked up different names. The Orlanthi called him Elmal the Loyal Thane, and did so for millenia until the revelations of Monrogh Lantern. At the time of Monrogh there were Lunars trying to convince people that Elmal was actually Antirius, a loyal son of Yelm to sow discord. Monrogh decided to heroquest to ask Elmal directly to sort shit out. As he heroquested he ended up discovering that the Defence of the Stead that Elmal is famous for was just a small part of his story and eventually ended up on the Hill of Gold where Orlanth beat the crap out of him to take his weapons. So he learned that Elmal was never the loyal thane but just helped the Orlanthi for a short while and that the title was some kind of distortion/propaganda of what actually happened. Having seen and met Yelmalio personally he returned with this knowledge which he spread. Revealing the whole mythos of Yelmalio opened up access to new magic previously unavailable to the Elmali which is why that died off and nowadays there's only Yelmalio. There were Lunar involvement with this revelations but this was cause they hoped that revealing the whole truth would make the new Yelmalians willing to follow the Lunar Empire and cause discord among the Orlanthi. While the latter happened the cult of Yelmalio remained independant.Also Elmal never had fire magic in this lore.
>>88932355Its just a bunch of newfags larping as oldfags because they played King of Dragon Pass or Six Ages. Greg fucked around and baked us with the lore way more than Jeff, and too many people treat his half-baked thoughts as gospel rather than exploratory work.>>88934340This >>88934884 anon is more or less on the money. Its important to consider that Jeff has been more of the mindset of consolidating deities and being fairly god learner with depictions in official material to make it easier to get into Runequest. This is not because these other cults don't exist, but because they aren't large enough to warrant specific reference over any other minor cult. If you want to focus on Elmal in game, its totally viable to do so in some kind of isolated community which doesn't have much contact with the main Sun Dome temples. Its just that Yelmalio is now the current most populous cult similar to Elmal ever since Monrogh did his heroquest. And if you want to change that, sure, YGWV anyway.Orlanth has also had a lot of consolidations, but no one gives a shit because its a non-issue. You can just add in the complexity for whatever locality you are playing in.Perhaps to add on to the other anon's post, Yelmalio was generally a god who went around and defended a whole bunch of people in the Darkness. Some of those happened to be Orlanthi who came to know him as Elmal. But those Orlanthi didn't realize that this same god was also going around helping other people as well and wasn't solely a staunch defender of Orlanthi. This is what Monrogh discovered. It gave the previous Elmal cult access to a much wider variety of myths and a more complete understanding.There is some extent to which heroquesting "changes reality", so you could argue that Monrogh changed Elmal by performing this heroquest, regardless of whether or not you buy the narrative. There's that, and also that the Yelmalio cult is usually at its strongest towards the end of an age.
>>88934884Now Six Ages, the video game is based on older lore, where Elmal is a seperate Sun god.There he is one of many lesser suns serving Yelm, after Orlanth killed Yelm, the empire breaks apart, Elmal has a beef with several other lesser suns + the emperor and his people leave.They later join the Orlanthi.
>>88935044This I feel "squares the circle"Elmals is both a seperate god and a member of the generic lesser sun god group, Lightfore.In joining the Orlanthi, he bring fire and sun stuff but eventually starts losing it becuase all Lightfore gods suffer on whatever the equivelent of the Hill of Gold is.With less Fire magic, a lesser status and no access to the purer ritual and so stronger like Yelmalio has. Switching to Yelmlaio gives them power and independence.
>>88934340in and out of universe, there's been a thing called the Many Suns Problem that is basically analogous to real world monotheism problems - if you believe there's only one god, and those heathens you hate also believe there is only one god, doesn't that mean that you are both worshipping the same entity? (assuming their is no mutual demonization going on)Within Time there is only one Sun. If you are worshiping the sun and getting magic from it, your beliefs have to be true for some value of truth, but all those other sun worshippers must also know true myths of the sun no matter how weirdly they conflict, because there's still only one sun (ditto for Lightfore, the counter sun). The modern Chaosium take is to call the True entities that are being worshipped here Yelm and Yelmalio, regardless of any cultural distortionThis is an unsatisfying conclusion for many people for various reasons that other replies have pointed out, and like a few god things makes you have to bend your mind around a bit to agree with. It *feels* like a retcon, even though Elmal himself was the retconPersonally, I think the best way to think about it is that the Many Suns Problem is only a problem in Time, anything before that is still fair game for pre-syncretized deities
so that diablo clone set in glorantha is never coming out, is it
>>88937001It was only shown off last year by some Irish devs, I don't think they've made an offical annocuemnt yet.Se Chaosium, this is what happens when you don't release products, people spin around the lore and seccondary stuff not actually engaging with your product.
>>88937001I don't know how long game development takes and I'm not sure for how long they've worked on the game. You can't really complain about a game taking too long to come out until they atleast officially announce it.
>>88935253For me the main problem with Elmal/Yelmalio is that as it stands Orlanthi have no solar deity which didn't happen in real-world mythologies. This wouldn't be a problem if some Orlanthi simply worshiped Yu-Kargzant and treated him as a separate entity from Yelm.
>>88940980Well they do aknowledge Yelm as the Sun, the problem there is that his relationship with Orlanth is mostly antagonistic. If you approach it from an Ernaldan perspective, like the Esrolians, the relationships with Yelm and Yelmalio are better.
>>88942885I think is more of a problem with the shift in how the setting is presentedFor RQ 2E, the idea the Sun personally hates your ethnic group is a little cool and Sword & Sorcery & Mythology, helps seperate the cosmology from D&D on top of the use of Cults.From a Glornathan/Heroquest/RQRG perspective it doesn't make sense because it wants to live in the world, and the idea of a life-giving sun personally hating you as it warms you and grows your crops feels wrong.
So how many here have tested the Six Ages 2 demo and what do you think of it so far?
>>88947341Going to be very jucier becuase it's a war against entropy as the world ends and now everyone is on the same page, the KoDP people know they are playing Orlanthi and the Six Ages RltW people know their clan's story is at stake.Lots of Glorantha myths talk about this time, now it gets to be seen in person.
>>88942885>>88945783the mythological relationship between orlanth and the y/elm/alio complex seems strained, but a lot of that is literally ancient history, bygones were made bygones in the compromise, and the cults are in now times listed as mutually neutral on the compatibility chartthere are political reasons to be opposed to each other, but they're not "kill on sight" or anything
>>88947658Then the text for the original RQ2E has an Orlanthi merchant, who doesn't even worship orlanth as his main deity of choice be kidnapped and forced to fight a Yelmalio for a cult rite, since Issaries is a Liughtbringer.They were Prax hicks but for a long time that was all we got on relationships.Also the challenges which were mandatory for Runelords, which everyone wanted to be.
>>88935067My 1clacks: Yelmalio, the prince, is the son of Yelm, the king.What is the son without the father when time and thus succession doesnt exist?thus Yelmalio without yelm becomes Elmal
>>88948642Riders don't recognise Kingship though, they have an Emperor and chiefs, that's why a faction in lights G Out want to ditch the whole Orlanthi thing and go back to riding horses 50% of th time and get shouted down by the tribal King who is sick of having his authority urpsed.
>>88948794all the other solar cultures do though
>>88915537When are we getting another actual game book.
Elmal could just be an ancestral story by the Runegate clans who hold to their ancestry as descendants of a sun god and Orlanth.But regardless this whole dance about Elmal and Yelmalio is because we have nothing else to talk about since it takes so long to make stuff by Chaosium.
ELMAL works as a battlecry. YELMALIO does not.
>>88956673Probably after the Cults books, but if we're lucky they'll put something out inbetween them. We know atleast they're working on things like non-human character sheets to be released soon-ish.
>>88923678I hate what they did with the Runes associated with the gods.
>>88930227Jeff is an annoying Yelmalio oldfag hardliner and now that Greg is gone he is working overtime to remove Greg’s more mystical Elmal stuff. A damn shame, and one that he will forever be frustrated by due to the Video Games, which is the introduction most people get, be from an Elmali or Orlanthi perspective.>>88930315I wish that Six Ages Ride like the Wind and the new one were even more non-linear since time doesn’t exist yet. That would be really hard to work into a playable game in the style of KoDP though, unless perhaps you worked it into how reloading older saves functioned. Could’ve been a good opportunity for a “new game+” option too.
>>88963550wat did they do
>>88940980>>88945783>For me the main problem with Elmal/Yelmalio is that as it stands Orlanthi have no solar deity which didn't happen in real-world mythologies.>it doesn't make sense because it wants to live in the world, and the idea of a life-giving sun personally hating you as it warms you and grows your crops feels wrong.That was Greg’s big problem and why he invented Elmal, who wasn’t the Lightfore to the Orlanthi, he was the Sun with all the warmth, fire and life-giving that entailed. Elmal having the Fire Rune is no mistake.https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/the-birth-of-elmal/
>>88963660It reverted a bunch of the rune set ups from the Guide to Glorantha to older ones or new ones. For example they (under the excuse it is the pure horse people version) have Yelm back as life, fire, death instead of mastery, fire, stasis.Lhanker Mhy no longer had his Law rune, Issaries no longer has the Communication runs (which he had all the way back to 1978) and Storm-Bull no longer has the Eternal Battle, Anti-Chaos Rune. Obviously he also took away Elmal’s Fire Rune to better force the idea that he was always just Yelmalio, even before the heroquest “discovered” that. In the quest for consolidation more gods were given identical runes too, since they are pushing the god-learner idea that multiple gods and goddesses are really the same ones and expanding the equivalences to even more gods… completely missing the point of the infamous Goddess Swap story.
>>88958832I mean they keep publishing articles pushing the Yelmalio ONLY stance and acting like that was always the truth at all points in time rather than (in-setting) retroactive. It is no wonder people keep talking about it.
Oh my god SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT YELMNOBODY FUCKING CARESEVERY FUCKING THREADFIND A NEW DUMBFUCK OUTRAGE BUZZWORD>>88958832>But regardless this whole dance about Elmal and Yelmalio is because we have nothing else to talk about since it takes so long to make stuff by Chaosium.Nope, it’s because you’re a bunch of braindead uncreative secondaries with shallow political ideologies in the place of personalities
>>88964087You seem to care. Fancy that.Jeff should’ve left well enough alone instead of trying to force his preference, bringing the debate to the forefront.
>>88964023They've said Elmal exists. What are you even talking about.>>88964007You do realize that they are changing the runes to fit the new game system, not because lore wise the other runes don't exist. They're not going to put every possible rune on the character sheet and put functional support for it just because some autist doesn't realize that they are just playing a game. Even though it sells itself as "system agnostic" the book title is Cults of Runequest, not Cults of Glorantha.If they were trying to delete those runes, why did they include them in the sourcebook, why do they still show up in the art? Greg oversaw the writing of RQG up until its publishing. For what possible reason could Greg have decided to not include them. Rub those couple brain cells together, I'm sure you can do the math.
>>88916525I learned about Glorantha by playing King of Dragon Pass. I learned about "mythic earth rq" from an anon on /tg/.To this day there has never been as soulful an introduction to a setting than KoDP
>>88964358>They've said Elmal exists. What are you even talking about.Ha, they downplay Elmal and the complexity of the situation at every turn. They even removed Elmal’s fire rune to further support this viewpoint, which I don’t think was due to the requirements of the game system at all.>https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/use-of-the-old-name-of-elmal/>https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/light-in-the-sky/Meanwhile if we go by Greg, we can see he was still referring to Elmal as the Orlanthi Sun, not just the lightfore ONLY approach that Jeff wants to push back into being valid at all points in the timeline.>https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/greg-sez-yelmalio-mar-2000/>https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/greg-sez/the-birth-of-elmal/For someone that doesn’t care and doesn’t want to talk about it, you sure are interested in doing so. Shouldn’t you just be ignoring it if you don’t care at all?
>>88964358>You do realize that they are changing the runes to fit the new game system, not because lore wise the other runes don't exist.So that is why Yelm doesn’t have Stasis but Lhankor May does? And why Yelm doesn’t have Mastery but Orlanth does? >Even though it sells itself as "system agnostic" the book title is Cults of Runequest, not Cults of Glorantha.Yet the previews and articles on the website repeatedly refer to it as “cults of glorantha”. So that is even more revisisionism.
>>88964503It is funny, they even went so far as to remove any mention of Elmal from their Orlanthi pantheon on the website, now it only links to Yelmalio.
>>88964087>NOBODY FUCKING CARES>EVERY FUCKING THREADWhich one is it?
>>88964677>>88964687>https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/y/yelmalio/Looking at the Yelmalio page, it looks like they had even given Yelmalio the same runes as Elmal, Fire and Truth, in the Runequest roleplaying in Glorantha guide in 2018 before changing their mind once Greg died and reverting Yelmalio (and Elmal when he even gets any mention) to Light and Truth.
>>88964687They also removed reference to Dayzatar from the Yelm Pantheon, since he is also light(formerly fire in the Guide to Glorantha) and Truth, but he is even the owner of the Truth Rune. I get the guy pulls away from worship but not even including the god at all…
I'll be honest, the sheer amount of contradictions and uncertainities in the lore of Dragon Pass just makes me want to kill myself. It is much easier for newfags like me to set up a game in the less-described regions like Teshnos or Fonrit, adapting older rules and making up cult details on the way. That would be, if any of my friends did not run away after being presented with the rulebook.Also, I find it fascinating that in "Genertela: Crucible of Hero Wars" it is stated that cult stats of Calyz, Furalor, Dayzatar and others would appear in the following books, but that simply never happened.
My preference is RQ2 where the gods are distinct entities in an antiquity/bronze age world who everyone has to deal with and Yelmalio is just the cold sun.My second preference is the malleable and varied pantheons where there are thousand of gods that change depending on the culture and time period, like real life. There both exist in different contexts.I don’t like the half way position they are in now.
What do you think of the tendency to make elves more tree-like (to the point of a walking birch) in the modern RQ?
>>88967719Getting increasingly harder to have old modules where they were just as weird as trolls but now are harder to have in game.
>>88964503I'm a different anon. Don't lump me together with the other screecher, I've only made one post.I didn't know that they removed the fire rune for Elmal and Yelmalio in the latest cults books, can't say that I have any of them. In the RQG it had Yelmalio with the Fire rune as >>88964823 says, but it looks like they've pushed that back into light for both Yelmalio and Elmal (which also has a separate entry) in the Prosopaedia. I'm somewhat less convinced of Jeff's position after seeing the Prosopaedia entry especially. It does look like it was just included to sweep Elmal under the rug. Elmal not having fire is a pretty big deal.>>88964677Product names change all the time. The name of the cult books have changed several times over the course of their development. Your point about Yelm is semi-fair, especially since they pushed it in the Prosopaedia, but the moment you mentioned Lhankor and stasis you lost all credibility. >>88967686YGWV. It's not a suggestion, it's integral. You are meant to take the parts you like and do with it what you like. You might find this talk by Sandy helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WcW874HbOc
>>88970123>Your point about Yelm is semi-fair, especially since they pushed it in the Prosopaedia, but the moment you mentioned Lhankor and stasis you lost all credibility. How so? Lhankor Mhy has has Stasis along with Truth in the past, but he has also been Truth and Law for a long time too, dating back to 1985 and stayed that way more often than not. The point wasn’t even about Lhankor Mhy being stasis, it was about Yelm no longer having it. The excuse of not representing every every rune being the cause of changes falters when those runes themselves are still found elsewhere like this. https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/l/lhankor-mhy/And I am unfortunately away from my computer at this time, but are you trying to say that NO god available In the runequest guide has the law rune? That sounds farfetched.
>>88970852Because stasis and law have been so mutably interchangable for various gods for the past few decades that its not at all controversial. From what it looks like, they want to move Law to be a rune for the most part associated with sorcery for RQG, and so are moving other cases to stasis so that the player gets a rune is on the character sheet. As for which gods have the Law rune in the Prosopaedia: its the Invisible God, Invisible Orlanth, Path of Immanent Mastery, Chariot of Lightning and Zaktirra. So for the most part, various renditions of the Invisible God. Note that not even Mostal has the law rune, he has a double stasis and earth.
>>88947341I played the demo and as much as I wanted to like it I just couldn't.
Random thing I found, SIZ in BRP and possibly the modern version of RQ is logarithmic progressionEvery 8 SIZ above the previous number, starting from 10 has twice the mass of the previous.So a SIZ 18 person is twice the mass of a SIZ 10 person, a SIZ 22 Cave Troll is 3 times as massive and a SIZ 26 giant is 4 times the mass of the smaller human.
>>88915537why is the initiative mechanic so fucking atrocious.Even GURPS is simpler
>>88971159Strike rank system is somewhat reminiscent to the older D&D initative system, desu. I guess these were the standart back then.
>>88967719Hasn't that been a thing since the olden days of RQ? Canonically their appearance can be anything from vaugely humanoid trees to Groot to green Legolas. But I do like the more tree-ish elves, makes them stand out more.
>>88972239Your image was made by Jeff Laubenstein around 2013-2014 for Guide to Glorantha. In rulebook for RQ2 elves are much more human-looking (p. 43 and p. 80). However, their write-up suggests that the concept of elves as tree-people has not yet been developed. Quote, "They are tied to their forests in ways incomprehensible to other races. It is possible that certain trees must live for elves to live. It is also possible that they are mobile guardians and gardeners for the mysterios forest deities"
So I did so hasty calculations for GURPS Size Modifiers based on some forum questions (+1 SM is a tripling of mass which is +12 SIZ) and a direction to GURPS 4E BiotechGoing from x1 to x1.5 scale in GURPS is +1 SM, which is +12 SIZ in BRPGoing to x2 scale, which is +2 SM is an additional +16 SIZ, for a total 28 SIZ increaseIt almost looks linear because both are logarithmic, but I think each number adds to the one beforex3 scale is +3 SM which is +24 SIZ, total +52 SIZx5 scale is +4SM which is +40 SIZ, total +92 SIZx7 scale is +5SM which is +56 SIZ, total +148 SIZx10 scale is +6SM which is +80 SIZ, total +228 SIZ
>>88967719They’ve always been tree-people>>88969122tf are you talking about
>>88974911Elves in recent RQ and Glorantha media always emphasis how strange and unknowable they are even if they are man shaped.Older depictions of elves and of trolls still show them as not human but not fundamentally unknowable to the human mind. Trolls still can get along with humans even though they have different priorities most of the time and can be adventurers with them.
>>88973395A big part of it was the music. They guy they hired to replace the original composer has not done nearly as good a job.I also have never liked (since Ride with the Wind) how the game literally takes place in the God Time, and yet you still have to "heroquest". I know there's a silly BS explanation, but I find it weak and a cheap justification not to do anything overly creative.The art is beautiful as always, and I love the conceit of the short packaged decisions with often unintended consequences, but I feel like the interface and mechanisms really impede the sense of vibrancy that the game is trying to convey.
>>88979169I hadn’t thought about the music, that is a concern. I haven’t played the demo yet so I’ll pay attention to that.
>>88978283Gbaji won.Seethe, Arkatfags.
>>88979760Nysalor did nothing wrong.
>>88979829What's the inspiration behind Arkat and Nysalor story? Some kind of Shiva and Vishnu (Krishna?) myth? I know little about the intricacies of Hinduism, but those characters look distinctly Eastern in art.
Does anyone even play RQ anymore?
>>88971159Its honestly not that bad, its as complicated as any other part of the system. Calculate it once and then its always the same. Unless you've also been retardedly recalculating every skill number on the fly too?>>88979169This also irks me about Ride with the Wind. It should've just done some early first age story in Peloria. The whole point of the God Time is there can't be a saga or chronology. I enjoy the game on the whole for similar reasons as you say, its still an enjoyable experience, but the cognitive dissonance means I can't engage with it on anymore than a surface level. But I do generally use the games as inspiration for sessions I throw at my players, so it works its way back in anyway.>>88980257That's just one depiction of them. There is a general sense of dualism to them which shows up in many belief structures such as a yin and yang in the duality of Arkat and Nysalor. If the hill is Gbaji, then Nysalor is the sunny side of the hill and Arkat the shady side. And when the light is doused and the whole hill is covered in shade, Gbaji still remains all the same.
>>88982674Maybe God Time was much more boring than everyone in later ages thought.Yes the occasional valley-sized dragon fell out of the sky or messenger from the past or future ride past but what if the great mythical age was just as shit as the current one except causality flowed in one direction and there was less magic?What if Glorantha was actually more like Earth where the glorious lost ages merely resides in half-remembered stories and not in pretentious anthropology grad’s fan-fics?Feel a lot better without Greg slavering his half-baked degree and nonsense shamanism over everything. All we need to do is get rid of Jeff as well.
>>88981764I'm currently running a non-Gloranthan Griffin Island campaign using my old GW 3rd Edition books.
>>88984905>non-Gloranthan Griffin Islandhow?
>>88985174By just not including any of the LORE, which the Games Workshop editions didn't have, as it was based on the Avalon Hill 3rd Edition, which separated out the Glorantha setting into its own book in the Deluxe Edition boxed set. Getting players to read the rules is hard enough, never mind reams of setting lore and all that Y/Elm/alio schism/heresy.Griffin Island is a self-contained location anyway, so it's fairly simple to just feature the on-island gods etc, and not worry about anything much from outside. The players all decided they wanted to keep it simple and start as spirit-magic using Barbarian Norsemen, so they had no baggage about bringing their own gods to the island. The elves, dwarfs, trolls (and a duck) that the PCs have encountered are all 3e RQ Glorantha-styled.
>>88982872I'm fine with the God Time not being the non-continuous soup of causality that is always vaguely inferred but then ignored.What I don't like is how the game just feels exactly the same as KoDP. The God Time is supposed to be when the gods literally walked with men and did their great deeds on the earth. I just wish more of that was replicated in the actual game mechanics.I also really wish they had retained the settlement view from the original PC version of KoDP where you could see the improvements of your clan village. That made it a lot easier to connect with your clan. And how cool would it be to see the gradual slow decline of your village and your people's condition over the course of the Great Darkness?
>>88982872>What if Glorantha was actually more like Earth where the glorious lost ages merely resides in half-remembered storiesI do love that in Ride like the Wind you can get an event where Beren, your son of Elmal, gets blinded. You can’t cure it completely yourself, but if you take him to the Orlanthi then their priestesses of Chalanna Arroy can cure his blindness. It later gets brought up when you are joining your clan with that of the Orlanthi.Hmmn, Chalanna Arroy curing the Blindness of Elmal so that he joins the Storm Tribe sounds rather familiar, doesn’t it?
>>88986989It would’ve been nice if the game had give with one of its earlier ideas where the clan was less semi-nomadic and more nomadic, meaning you could actually pick up and move somewhere else in the Valley.Overall though I do think the Gameplay of Ride like the Wind is improved over KoDP and better balanced too. There is much more to do and to grab your attention at any moment, meaning you need to consider your approaches more carefully and more approaches are viable. As much as it annoys me that they made the game have a much more narrow, semi-strict time limit based around one guy instead of letting anyone become the Beren like how KoDP let anyone be Sartar, the stricter limit also meant you had to be more conscious of your choices even despite there being more to do.
>>88987054as with Elmal marrying Orlanth's horse loving daughter.as above so below
>>88987206Or perhaps>as below so above
>>88987440it is the same. Elmal marries Redalda because Beren marries Reydalda vecause Elmal marries Redalda because...
Do Brinthi fuck?
>>88988794Only when they have to, so the prelude to war or natural disasters
If you go to the forums or discord, Six Ages makes people seethe because they have their own version of the time and events and now a video game that is in the vein of the era that contradicts both the new Jeff Glorantha and the old Greg writing nonsense Glorantha.Since it actually has to have a story and a logical chain of events, not just random mythological anecdotes.And it will be the more remembered one.
>>88986989>The God Time is supposed to be when the gods literally walked with men and did their great deeds on the earth. I just wish more of that was replicated in the actual game mechanics.The justification for the gods not being around all the time is the Gods War. They're either off fighting or trying to keep the world from falling apart.But you can still have a lot of encounters with various gods, especially if you focus on exploration. You can walk into the Hill of Gold battle or come across Zarlen as he explores the lands.
>>88989126elmal also just straight up visits you some times
>>88989160And the trend will continue in Lights Going Out. Like having Wakboths giant foot stomp on your village like a Monty Python animation.
>>88989840Wakboth did nothing wrong.
>>88989126Yeah, I know the justification. I still think it's lame.
>>88989840It could be worse.It could’ve been Kajabor’s foot.
>>88990177Then your savefile would have gotten deleted.
>>88990600What save file?
>>88990905Wait, what were we talking about?
I hate what Jeff is doing not only because I am a proud Elmalfag, but also because for all his knowledge of ancient history that man seems painfully out of touch with the metaphysical/mystical framework that Greg had. His open god-learnerism, attempting to consolidate the gods into a handful of core, "real" deities misses the point of Glorantha as a setting and even more of the Second Age. He and his ilk seem completely disconnected from the actual, IRL, mystical and philosophical basis of Greg's work, and it shows in almost every single piece of modern material they make.
>>88991282Paradoxically, by trying to accentuate the strange aspects of the setting they've in fact managed to grind it down into something mundane and boring.I think part of what is to blame is RuneQuest, which I believe Greg is on record as saying it was not how he intended Glorantha to be in the first place. Jeff and the other guys in control now all have a hard-on for old RuneQuest, with everything quantized and granularized. And it's all just kind of sad and boring.They say they want to let you be heroes -- but where is the book to let you be a hero? You could do more with HeroQuest than you could with RuneQuest, and at least HeroQuest, for all its vagueness, still had that wonderful mix of reality and fantasy that made the game feel real.
>>88991368Heroquest as a system wasn't perfect, but imo peak Glorantha exists precisely in that era, with the Guide as the basic setting bible the players and GMs could built upon. Also, is during this time period in which we can see the PEAK orlanthi aesthetics, with a mixture between celtic, mycenaean and just a few drops of northern european and vedic influence. Jeff then went overboard with the hindu stuff and now you can hardly differentiate between heortlings and lunars.
>>88924849>the lack of a GM's guide 5 years in with no timeline in sight is a cardinal sin.I just had someone tell me that any system that needs a GM book is too complicated to bother with. Maybe RQ would like to cater to this kind of audience, considering they still published their new edition with issues intact since the 80s.
>>88992079I don't necessarily disagree with this sentiment -- but there is lots of stuff that supposedly was to be included in the GM's guide that isn't really "how to be a GM"
>>88934884>Out of universe: Originally there was no Elmal, only Yelmalio. Greg added Elmal, which created some controversies in the Gloranthan loreThis is completely false.The rest of your post takes this false premise and runs all the way with it, to the point of completely forgetting how the setting works.RQ-fags really can't spend 5 minutes without trying to rewrite the setting and then complaining that the original author's "half-baked throughts" get in their way.
>>88989855Wakboth did everything wrong like he had a checklist. It's his entire reason for being.
>>88992120Because they don't understand that Greg actually believed the stuff he wrote down, and try to approach the multiplicity of gods as if it was a puzzle to be solved by their post-modern, rationalist, materialistic tools and not an invitation to read the very obvious IRL inspirations of the setting (Campbell, Eliade, actual hinduism, etc)
>>88992161>CampbellAh yes, the supposed "inspiration" of the setting that had an entire era devoted to showcasing how and why he is wrong and how his hubris offends.
>>88992176...Anon you are confirming what I am saying. Campbell's ill-fated quest is ultimately a core part to understand why the God Learners failed, and why what Jeff is trying to do is stupid.
>>88992184Well sure, if by "inspiration" you mean "not at all an inspiration of the original setting, but an object of mockery along with the portion of the playerbase who can't stop acting like him and talking about him", sure. Also, by Greg's own words, a "post-modern, rationalist" mindset is perfectly fine if applied to the setting, as long as it's applied correctly. He was willing to entertain the idea that perhaps "all myths are true" is stupid as anything other than a way to make fans shut up and it would be more correct to say "all myths are horrible misinterpretations of true events".
>>88992154>It's his entire reason for being.Wrong, he chose to do it because he enjoyed it.
>>88992272The difference between "everything wrong" and "the inclination to gladly do everything wrong" as one's essence is subtle but significant.
>>88992079As >>88992109 this anon says, its partly because they intend to release the GM guide. In the products they've released, they've often been forward facing and say refer to X book for a more indepth treatment of this, but book X doesn't exist yet. So the problem is not that it doesn't need a GM's guide, but that it was planned to come out but hasn't.Its for that reason that I'm most interested in the Mythology book in the upcoming cults series. From how it sounds it will provide a whole bunch of useful content on how to deal with the God Time and Heroquesting, which is definitely useful for GMs generally, even if its not a GM's guide.>>88992161>>88992176>>88992184>>88992235If you think Campbell was not an influence and inspiration in the creation of Glorantha you are retarded. Its not the only influence, but to pretend Glorantha doesn't address or touch on it in any way is just stupidity, straight up.
should the yelmalion greeting be "YO" or OY"?
>>88994984Both. You reply with the other.
>>88991282>I am a proud ElmalfagSame.I have noticed that there are a lot of people who really, REALLY like Elmal. Thus, it is a bit strange to me that he is being sidelined in the current edition. Economically, you want to lean into popular parts of your game. Spiritually, this suggests that there is something lovable about Elmal and I don't understand why the rulers that be seem to not want to look into why that is.
>>88992120>This is completely false.Can you point out exactly what about the post is false? And the rest is just paraphrasing Jeff, not anything I made up.And by the way, I'm not pro-RQ or pro-Jeff, just stating the info I find.
I fucking love sorcery, an Aolian taught my Pol-Joni Humakti a spell and let him become a lay member of a cult
>>88997129Now you only need to be a peasant too to become a proper Man of All
>>88982872>All we need to do is get rid of Jeff as well.What a charmless dull lukewarm soup that Glorantha would be. Not even a Trickster around to stir it. Do you consider Nysalor to be your spiritual teacher?
>>88997636My tastes have always run mopre toward Steve Perrin's Glroantha, which is a S&S dungeon/society crawl.Stuff like Snakepipe Hollow and City of Dangers are good becuase the gameplay loop eventually lead to Lore and Mythology which brings in more Rune magic and treasure to makes the gameplay loop better.
>the emperor declared that Elmal's name should be stricken off the records and that he shall be forgotten>the power of the emperor's word transcends even the game into our world as chaosium tries to forget ElmalI stand with Hyalor and Samnal in delcaring Elmal's might.
>>88998223I just bet Jeff as annoyed that Six Ages managed to figure out how to resolve the issue while he was being very blantent about making his vision a reality.
>>88998579Six ages didn't figure out anything, it just (loosely) follows canon.If you think this is bad for Yelmalions, there is a snippet in one of the Moon Design books that suggest Yelmalio is the false deity adopted by Solar Amish too conservative to deal with reality and Monrogh was a trojan horse that managed to take over the cult from within, triggering mass Sun Dome rebellions within the Lunar Empire.
>>88995169>Spiritually, this suggests that there is something lovable about Elmal and I don't understand why the rulers that be seem to not want to look into why that is.There are dozens of pretty obvious reasons why people liked Elmal and Jeff has to be authistic to not realize any of them:-He's the "dependable friend" archetype. And these kind of characters are usually popular.-He's a solar deity and these had always been among the most popular even when they don't head the pantheon-In KoDP his Heroquest was the best or at least second best, and so fat it's the most accessible source of Gloranthan mythology.
>>88998946And Elmal's favorite band is Protomen
>>88997636they’re just zoomers memeing, ignore nogaems posters
>>88999717NO MATTER HOW DARK THIS WORLD GETSTHERE WILL BE LIGHT!
>>88995169The elmal meme is literally just secondaries being contrarian over something they think is a grog meme from an era they never experienced
>>88995169Yelmaliofags will all die soon, no worries.
>>88981764I’ve run it three or four times and played the old solosStarted my group with the Broken Tour, then Apple Lane, then some random regional stuff, then covid was kill
Which goddess makes for the best waifu and why?
>>89000665I don't know, I keep having strange feelings about my squire...
The Doubting Wheel was right.
>>89001325I have doubts about that
Remember that many gods count as spirit societies for other cultures even if there is no support and Greg got very incoherent about shamans.
>>89003466Shamans are always weird.
>>890006654 out of 5 gods say Ernalda.
Why is Ernalda such a slut?
>>89004051Cause anybody with a plow can put it in her
>>89004152Even her son!No wonder he's Barntarded.
I wonder if the discord is any good?
>>89004469It's a hive of pozzed degenerates