Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321Previous thread: >>87450320TQ: What are your favorite alternate and/or house rules?
>>87481744>TQMax HP at first level.Still roll 3d6 straight of course.
>>87481854This the only house rule you really need.
>>87481854>Still roll 3d6 straight of course.I played 2e a lot, and we used 4d6 drop the lowest, roll 7 scores and drop the lowest, then arrange to suit. The idea was that adventurers were exceptional people, obviously.
>>874819172e makes attributes really important. One of the multitudinous reasons it's given the stink-eye around here.
>>87481950Only if you use NWP. The ability scale is 90% congruent with 1e. Which is lame because the AD&D ability scale is shit. Exceptional Strength as an ability score as opposed to a fighter special ability is shit. Minimum/Maximum known spells per level is shit. Divergent Dexterity AC and ranged attack bonuses is shit.Gygax had to create a unique IP to separate himself from Arneson's material and he went hyper-autist. We got some great stuff out of it (80% of the DMG) but we also got some fundamental garbages (ability scaling, demi-human variable level caps with no coherence, psionics (underrated and unexplored but fundamentally broken), WEAPONLESS COMBAT RULES mark I and mark II).2e gets a lot of hate for the things it did wrong but it did more than a few things right.
I realize that It just for my own pleasure, but ended up tonight doing a complete rewrite of a retroclone I made. Its nothing special, Holmes style 0ed, Ascending AC, and just the barebone rules. Wanted to get it out htere before any 1.0a revoking.
>>87481744>TQ: What are your favorite alternate and/or house rules?I remove level limits, but Humans get a extra 1d6 hit points.
In regards to AD&D 1e is there much of a reason to choose a two-handed weapon over a shield and one-handed weapon? The damage increase is pretty low, they tend to have slower weapon speed, and keep you from gaining possibly huge AC bonuses from magic shields.
>>87482473Weapon damage in AD&D is a tactical consideration because of the variable damage against large creatures. It's a stupid rule but it's easy to exploit.
>>87482408Thief is a race?Check yr tables bud
>>87482408>undermonetized games for undermonetized gamers
>>87482630>Thief is a race?That's pretty based. Is magic user a race too?
You ever wanted a master villain who could show up as the nefarious leader of multiple plots, but the PCs never let any NPC baddies live? I present the Necroloid. The PCs can kill him a dozen times and he can be a different guy every time!
>>87482408Fucking comfy dude>OGL 1.0uh oh
>>87482630>Thief is a race?That's why the Thief table has the "Blackstab" (sic) ability
How to convert land ranges (20 feet, 15 feet, 100 feet etc) in theater of the mind?
>>87483927"Here" and "there" zones.
>>87483944speaking of>players enter zone which was completly unprepared>end up with two dungeons, 3 towns (one of which is goblin), large lair, haunted cemetary, den of bandits and a few lesser lairs with monsters that have price on their heads>all on equivalent of one hex
>>87483927"It's right in front of you" for 5'–15'"It's about thirty feet away from you" for 20'–40'"It's about twenty yards away from you" for 50'–100'Etc.Most people should be able to visualize the distance if you give them an approximate range.
Why do dungeons exist in your game?
>>87484000Because my players want to play the game. Also, checked.
>>87481744>TQDeath & Dismemberment
>>87484000Because the "Move Earth" spell makes creating dungeons very easy.
What system would you guys use for running an OSR game in the Giantstep setting? https://crumbling-giantstep.fandom.com/wiki/
>>87484102For gold and glory or ACKS
>Magical bracers that offer protection and a small list of cleric spells that you can cast once per day.>It's actually cursed! Slowly transforms you into a female egyptian looking Jackal-girl.>Magical amulet of the spider queen. Lets you summon spiders and grants immunity to webs.>It's actually cursed! Slowly transforms you into a female Drow.When the first one happened I wrote it off. But two cursed magical items that turn you into women in the same game? DM is showing his power level.
>>87482630Races go vertically on that table, classes horizontally. It is what class each race can be.
>>87482970Its why the spells are in another document, and as soon as ORC or S&W gets a non-1.0 SRD I will swap it over. as spell lists appear to be one of the things that going to get gummed up by the 1.0a change.
>>87482988KEK, Well I fixed it. I was rather tired last night.
>>87482430I remove level limits by just saying that human XP requirements go linear around name level like normal, but demihuman XP requirements continue to double ad infinitum. Probably my favorite house rule right now.
>>87484377No idea why that PDF got garbled.
I was thinking of implementing a house rule that nat 20's upgrade weapon damage by 1 dice (i.e. d6 -> d8) and so on. You think it will work or does will it break the game? (OSE)
>>87484459It won't break the game, I used it before.
>>87484459That's functionally the same as "+1 point of damage on a critical hit." Hardly game-breaking, but also a bit transparent.A sneakier method (if you don't mind pulling the wool over your players' eyes a little bit) is to say that on a nat 20, the damage die becomes corrected-exploding. That means that if the damage roll is maximum, you subtract 1, roll again, add the result, and continue accumulating (but also subtracting 1 every time) so long as the continues to explode. The "subtract 1" step ensures that the result is uniform across all die-sizes (even 1d2), and the actual impact on the expected damage-value is only +½ point per damage die involved. Smaller impact on game-balance, but psychologically it fools players into thinking that crits are super-deadly.
>>87484345Then what class thieves can be?
>>87484512Human and Halflings can be Thieves
>>87484512Thief, barbarian and goblin.
>>87484498That does sounds very good actually. I like the recursive aspect to it, I think I will use that instead. Thank you!
Torches occupy your hand and don’t let you use a shield, correct?
>By using Our Licensed Content, you agree to the terms of this license.>Our Licensed Content. This license covers any content in the SRD 5.1 (or any subsequent version of the SRD we release under this license) that is not licensed to you under Creative Commons. You may use that content in your own works on the terms of this license.>"We are looking at adding previous edition content to both the CC and OGL 1.2."Potentially a big deal for retroclones depending on how previous they go
>>87484911What’s to stop me from making a functionally identical RPG rule system and changing names around to make it original?WotC can’t trademark a geometric shape. Or orcs or dragons for that matter.
>>87484890I would say you can hold the Shield and the Torch at the same time in the same hand/arm but you don't get the Shield AC bonus since you can't effectively use the shield while holding the torch.
>>87484939Nothing, which is also stopping WOTC from suing you.>inb4 hurr dey can'tYou guys also said they can't revoke the OGL and they are in the midst of doing it AND they've got popular opinion on their side now
>>87484984>get sued>post PDF on multiple sites and let it spreadOkay, now what?>AND they've got popular opinion on their side nowNo they don’t. Even Twitter and Reddit saw through their corporate BS.
>>87485124>chud>flooded by culture warriorsYeah, we’re already there. Doesn’t effect my table so I don’t care.Simple as.
>>87484525Reread your own table, man.
>>87484459"The "critical hit" or "double damage" on a "to hit" die roll of 20 is particularly offensive to the precepts of D&D."- Gary Gygax
>>87484984>AND they've got popular opinion on their side nowAt least pretend to be genuine.
>od&d>stats have little impact>most monsters deal only 1d6 damage>high level fighters can mow down mooks>awful d4s are never usedI think I like it more than BX
>>87485536Your purity level has increased.
>>87485509"Critical hits are something me and my players enjoy."-Anon
>>87485536D4's were a mistake. Hate how the little niggers roll.
Critical hits statistically favors the monsters over the party, only brainlets enjoy them.
Who cares who critical hits favour?
>>87485536>awful d4s are never usedWrong on both counts.
>>87485620Then it's not true OSR.
>>87485690Greyhawk supplement is not OSR
>>87485725Dude, OD&D tells you right up front you need 2d4 to play. Are you retarded? Didn't you read it? It's used plenty in the spell section to determine number of targets, for example.
>>87485761I'm running Whitebox:FMAG
>>87485725To be fair to you, it's not written as d4 in the books, but as 1-4. So d4 are used for spells, number of enemies, etc.
>>87485779That's not OD&D then. Why did you say OD&D?
>The OGL is a trap!!!!>We need a new, different OGL to yolk ourselves to! Everybody write one!Can retroclone authors spend one second of critical thinking before leaping into action?
>>87485811Anon, none of them are that smart. If they were they would work on Shitfinder or Nu-dnd producing woke tripe that actually sells.
>>87485811>write rulebooks and adventures anonymously>distribute them freely>no PWYW bullshit>just free>people take my stuff and hack it>they ask for money>I don't give a single fuck>ttrpgs are free>ttrpgs are pure>besides, I already have a job
>>87485799It's literally od&d
>>87485825This. Even though the OSR is superior in every way to their tabletop MMO horseshit. It's what's popular with the kids that have short attention spans and lack of critical thinking skills these days. Which is ironic to me because these games are far easier to play without the mountain of bloated nonsense this newer shit has.
>>87485884Been thinking of writing my shitbrew and donating as many as i can afford to random consignment shops. A modern martin luther, but instead of pamphlets nailed to churches, ill just toss my shitbrew around until it finds itself in the hands of some poor sod.What are they going to do? Sue a nonexistant company?
>>87485898If it doesn't use D4, it's not.
>>87485811You use a license to prevent harassment lawsuits,. And srds so you don't have to reinvent the wheel.If 1.0a goes into legal limbo I will just port over my stuff to another license or do a creative Commons. Sure I could rename a ton of spells, but I rather just write a module
>>87485811Also, no one stopping you from making a non ogl retro clone. Mine will likely just use cc in six months
>>87485811As the Anon who wrote the Richard one that was posted up thread, it's mostly due to the cover your ass aspect of what is actually copyrighted and what is not.Some spell names but not all are copyright protected. Some monsters but not all are protected. In addition some of the specific details are protected while others are not.As an example having a kobold in your game is not a copyright violation. Having them somewhat lizard like and with scaly skin might.That's the specific reason why I excluded spells and monsters from my retroclone right now, as the plan is that between wizards of Coast creative Commons release, and what basic fantasy RPG he's going to release I will have mine without a license outside of using some creative Commons material.
>>87486098The important thing is to work with material that is completely scrubbed of content from the SRD, and iirc Castles & Crusades is not scrubbed. I may be wrong on that though.If it's not scrubbed, Troll Lord could be sued by WotC. I don't see how any of that could affect people publishing adventures for Castles & Crusades, though, unless they were reproducing whole spells in or something. As I understand it, as a former third party publisher during 3e and 3.5e, just using the names of spells like Magic Missile when talking about what spells an NPC has prepared or something like that isn't likely to result in legal action, even if WotC decides to try to kill Troll Lord.
>>87487579>... unless they were reproducing whole spells in or something.I meant to say "unless they were reproducing whole spells in a list of what spells an NPC has prepared or something." I accidentally'd a few words there.
>>87484446I give humans +50% bonus XP, which has a similar effect.
>>87487626It's all good I understood what you're getting at. And it said my goal is to make my retroclone a solely on creative Commons and my own work.But I'll use the 1.0a till it gets into a legal gray area.
>>87481950You are so fucking retarded. Why the fuck do 90% who shits on a specific system dont actually know anything about it? Is it thay hard to form your own opinion instead of vomiting pure schizophrenia that you were fed from some reddit post?
>>87487902>2efag has a shitfit
>>87488054What's wrong with Advanced OSE?
>>87488130Hehe, good one Anon. What a fine jape!!
>>87484000a dungeon is anything abandoned (by civilized folk) that still has something valuable leftand my hexmap is basically fantasy detroit
>>87484000Rather depends on the dungeon doesn't it? >abandoned library of arcane power with cursed book at the heart, top floors taken over years later by violent artist cult>sanctuary of last titan, decapitated in battle but hidden by followers underground and used as an oracle, losing coherency over time, longing for death and sending out minion to draw in his demise>dream structure of plutonian crystal beings that emerges from the sands when the stars are aligned Why do people think there has to be 1 reason for all of them?
>>87488675I dunno men I dont think it needs to be abandoned. I will absolutly send my players on a spec ops mission to infiltrate enemy castle, or assassinate some asshole wizard in his lab
>>87481744Which OSR game has the best rules for guns and firearms? I'm really interested in doing an early modern/age of discovery campaign.
>>87489032There's b/x firearms rules in one of the Carcass Crawler zines that I like. Has rules for matchlocks, wheel locks, and flintlocks, and handles misfires, using it as a club, etc
Gonna play railroady heroic fantasies with BX or one of its retroclones, and you won't stop me!
>>87489131Use ACKS instead with Heroic Fantasy supplement.
>>87489131Okay, but it's a bad system to do that with.
>>87489032I like to keep it simple.2d10 piercing damage. Takes a full turn to reload.Keeps them great ambush weapons but you quickly loose tempo if you rely on them in longer fights.
>>87482526All these different polearms is the most pointless part of adnd. They stop meaning anything when you start getting +1 items because lets be honest, have you ever found a magical bill-guisarme in dungeon?
>>87487631Mathematically speaking, that's not even vaguely similar.Just taking a fighter with no prime requisite adjustment as an example, in your campaign, for a fighter to reach 15th level, a demihuman would need to earn 960,000 XP, and a human would need to earn only 640,000 XP.In my campaign, the human needs 960,000 XP to reach 15th level, whereas a demihuman would need to earn an intentionally unattainable 15,360,000 XP. (Except that I also penalize demihumans −20% XP, which I didn't mention earlier; in actuality, they'd really need 19,200,000 XP to make 15th level as a fighter.) A demihuman in my campaign won't hit 13th level before a human hits 36th.
>>87489990Only above 10th or 11th level, when they ought to be retiring from play and ceding the high-level game entirely to humans anyway.
>>87490080Because DMG pg 21, that's why.
>>87489225>piercing damage>full turn what?
>>87490152>tfw anon thought he'd post his "cool gun rules" and accidentally revealed himself to be a FOEkek
>>87489463OK, similar in kind not in degree. A human character will start to pull away from a demihuman character in experience levels after name level. The effect on the game and player choice for race is similar, and I don't need to highroad anybody or demand 20 million XP. I'm not attacking your playstyle, but in my experience you don't really need such a hard touch.
>>87489032Standard missile damage and maybe ignore a couple AC worth of armour? If that? Prior to the Minie ball guns were shit, you don't need a separate set of rules for them really.
>>87481744TQ: Tension Dice are pretty cool, mostly since it gets players to consider the cost of their dungeon actions immediately when they can see the time ticking away.
>>87484000Typical precursor collapsed civilization beneath the ground, plus a war with elves that's left humans scattered and weak, plus the raw forces of Chaos manipulate anything left in the dark for long enough.
Does B/X use ability scores to determine what level of spells a magic user, clerics, elves, and any other classes that use magic can cast? What about BECMI and AD&D?
>>87490586I'm not attacking you and I'm not feeling attacked, don't worry about that.But I will say that in my experience, you can heap every mechanical disadvantage imaginable on demihumans and make it as painful as possible to play them, and you'll still get players who will only play nonhumans because they can't conceive of any other way to make their characters interesting. I might be a hardass about it, but given the players I routinely deal with, I do come by it honestly.
>>87490957No. B/X places little importance on ability scores beyond their bonus functions, class qualification, and pre-requisite XP adjustment.AD&D has some limits to amounts of spells known and max level for MU classes. Cleric type casters can gain bonus spells or suffer possible spell failure depending on Wisdom score. Not sure if the spell level is capped by ability score, I think only the power of the deity determines that.
Does it deserve the hype?
Have an OC shitbrew. Tell me what you think of it. I tried to follow the internal logic of BX's strength chart for it.Feel free to suggest edits or other ideas for it.
>>87485223>practicing a hobby without paying mind to be whims of multinational is copeAnon, you know that rule books and copyright laws arent enforced by magical djins, right? All you need to play ttrpgs is a pen and at least one paper. Enven chalk and some asphalt will do. D&D products and IPs could vanish from the earth tommorow and it still would affect this guys table or mine.You are in a mind prison.
>>87491651Urg. Just noticed the editing mistakes. I'll go fix it.
>>87491651>>87492089Updated. I think that's all the errors removed, and a little clarification added.
>>87491622It doesn’t do anything revolutionary. The formatting is slick I will give it that. There’s an awful lot of space dedicated to advice which could be helpful for a new DM but otherwise it’s filler. The adventure itself is just adequate.I think for someone new to running the game it could be a good template for how to create your own material but as a work in its own right it’s only average.
>doing dungeon23>still 6 days behind>was 10 at the start of today>dungeon doesn't really feel like it has a theme>sleep schedule is utterly fucked for years now, get like 5 hours of sleep>don't have much imagination anymore>try to think of things>that "spark" that used to be there in my mind, pouring out ideas and names and whatever, is gone>still have a few ideas here and there but I know I would have had no problem sticking to it 4 or 5 years ago.I don't know if fixing my sleep will help, or not working in a factory anymore, or not being 29 anymore, or if it's too late and the damage is permanent.
>>87492351>5 hours of shitty sleep for years>wonders why his brain is mushAnon please, this is literally how you get Alzheimer's when you're older.
>>87482473>choose a two-handed weapon over a shield and one-handed weapon?A long pokey polearm to be used from the back rank would be a good defensive decision too. If the DM is using the combat sequence and not being a take turns guy, fighting in formation is good.
>>87482473How did it go from rather rules light B/X to this level of autistic detailing?
>>87493143>how do you go from 1983 game to 1977 game?
>>87493143Advanced = More Polearms
>>87493143B/X came afterwards. Though after 81 many people played B/X mixed with 1st.
>>87481744>TQ>low hd enemies that roll max hp get some minor ability, like barbarians go berserk and survive 0hp until the end of their next action>rewards for blowing large amounts of gold on mechanically useless shit like week-long black lotus binges>letting my modern-accustomed players cheat a bit with racial classes and attributes so they're willing to play my stupid OSR games
>>87493518AD&D 1e wasn't finished until '79 when the DMG finally came out -- '77 you had the Monster Manual and nothing else. B/X came out in '81, not '83 -- 1983 saw the release of Mentzer's Basic, Expert, and Companion set.
>>87493723Honestly I don't understand how DND had the staying power it did when it's production was so slapdash.
>>87493808OD&D was self contained and the other editions weren’t released with massive fanfare like today. The market was a lot smaller and if a D&D book didn’t come out one year then you had things like RuneQuest or Arcanum or Traveller. The original release of Basic started as a fan revision.It was a different time.
Hey fellas. I'm a couple sessions deep into my group's first OSE campaign that I've been running, and during today's session I ran into a situation where a group of enemies rolled winning initiative and closed in on the ranger to attack. When the players' turn came around, the question came up: In the instance where a player is put into melee range after the announcement phase but before his movement, is he able to perform any manner of retreat without having announced it, or is he simply stuck there and has to deal with it? I ended up ruling that he could perform the full retreat that he wanted to, and that he would take defensive penalty in the instance that the enemy won next initiative and chased him down, but the whole thing felt kind of weird given that there wouldn't have been a reason for him to announce his intent for melee movement at the start of that first turn. Ultimately, I get the feeling I made the wrong call here, and my reading of the book seems to agree. How do you guys tend to handle this? Also, how do you guys like to handle new characters and XP? Just level 1 and 0 XP, or something different?
So I give all PCs max HP at first level, and let them reroll if they get a 1 rolling their new HP at a level up. I also let them roll 7 ability scores, and drop their worst total, then arrange to suit, because I want people to get to play what they want to play.What do you anons think of these house rules?
>>87494377Sounds like you're gay for your players, but otherwise it's fine.
>>87494193It seems to me the ranger would be caught. The situation you’re describing is exactly why I don’t like group initiative without alternate phases. Also if the ranger was far enough away from his own party it may have warranted him rolling his own initiative and getting the DEX reaction bonus if he had one. There’s a reason rangers have a better surprise/reaction chance in AD&D. It’s not so they can attack get the drop and attack, it’s so they can get the drop and return to the party.As for your XP question it’s a whole can of worms. I have a few approaches but the caveat my campaigns don’t tend to go much further than 6th level.First, I use and accelerated 1st level track. It’s usually only 250xp to get to 2nd level in my game. So if everyone is low level then 0 is the default start. If the average level is higher I might start the new character with enough XP -1 to advance to next level. That way they have to go on an adventure to move up but they get a leg up. Some people like to allow the other PCs to give the new PC their gold and power level them until the new PC gets within range of the party.I recommend starting new PCs at 0 until you have a feel for how your game plays. Other PCs might could be generous and help out with starting wealth or the gear of the dead PC.
>>87491622I ran it as an island in a pirate game, and the miserable nearby town was full of castaways living off of subsistence farming. As-written it's pretty cool, but giving it a new coat of paint that's more specific to your particular game/world will make it many times more enjoyable.The island was also full of pywawas, but I don't even remember if that was original to the adventure... Still, the players are fucking terrified of pineapples now.
>>87492252I like extending the Force Door roll to knocking over stone statues and so on. However, you mention that the social feats might "derail the DM's planned encounter" which is not in the spirit of sandbox gaming Also, Force Door is a low 2/6 chance of success, but the stakes are not that high. If it fails the PCs can try again, worst case scenario they get a Wandering Monster. In any dungeon there will be plenty of stuck doors, so plenty of rolls. So it would be a perfect fit for e.g. climbing a cliff, where failure just means getting stuck and risking a wandering monster, but I'm not sure this is a good mechanic to fit situations that come up rarely and have higher stakes. I think some of your examples are more life and death, like running across a tightrope, and on top of the low base 2/6 chance you give a -1 to -3 penalty. Even with a high dex mod that's not good odds for the PC
Why does literally no one talk about it anymore?
>>87494558When was the last really good module released for us to discuss?It's a solid B/X variant, I like the idea of making to-hit increases a fighter ability, the encumbrance is a nice, usable alternative to coin weight. Summon spell is too involved and dangerous to be useful.
>>87494540Quality reply. Thanks anon. I'll consider it.
>>87494558I mean, it's just one more version of B/X. It's a really good version, and I personally use it for my Yoon-Suin campaign, but the core rules are basically B/X with some of the best rules for firearms and maritime I've seen as of yet.We do talk about LotFP adventures sometimes. In fact just last thread we talked about Better than Any Man, so...What are you on about?
>>87494861Probably referring to it being unable to drum up shitstorms of controversy because the highest profile author is cancelled, heavy metal is about as problematic as a stubbed toe, and Raggi is so wholesome he might as well shoot his videos with a pipe while wearing a cardigan.That’s the problem with building a shock brand. Eventually everybody’s been shocked.I’m fine with LotFP. The system is solid enough, the modules are more miss than hit with me but when they’re good, they’re good. There’s just nothing left to talk about. The last truly controversial thing I remember from them was the teasers for 2e rules in Eldritch Cock and Vag Are Mag. And that fizzled, what, four years ago?
>>87495058You just reminded me of an old Onion article about Marilyn Manson going door-to-door in conservative old-money neighborhoods, trying to find someone in America left to shock.
old school D&D campaigns were the original minecraft servers
>>87495058Which modules would you recommend?
>>87495058>and Raggi is so wholesome he might as well shoot his videos with a pipe while wearing a cardigan.That would be one hell of improvement over watching that cavemans fat body
>>87494377This path leads to darkness. Your players will get too attached to their level 1 characters, they'll slowly morph into powergamers talking about "optimization" and writing elaborate backstories, and sooner or later you'll be fudging dice to keep them alive.This is not OSR.
>>87494377That's roughly equivalent to the recommended character generation in AD&D.
>>87495183The God That Crawls is probably the best adventure to illustrate the 'combat as a fail state' meme. It's stripped down dungeoneering. Worth running or playing at least once.Scenic Dunnsmouth is really fun to DM. You build the village with die drop and a deck of cards. Sounds gimmicky but it's just plain fun. I'm a little lukewarm on the timefreeze plot device but it doesn't ruin the adventure. I'll excise it if I run it again.Better Than Any Man looks great. Sadly I have not had the opportunity to run it yet.Fever Swamp is a gross, goofy, small hex crawl. I must have liked Forgive Us because it's still bookmarked in my 'to run' folder. Looking over it I can't say why it grabbed me. Seems like a mystery centered around the plague. I'm not sure. The art's a bit twee.Black Blade of the Demon King looks phenomenal but I might have stars in my eyes because it's obviously an homage to Moorcock's Eternal Champion. I'll have to read it again to know I'm not fooling myself.Thulian Echoes is really ambitious. It takes place in two different times with the events of one affecting the other. Another one on my 'to run' run list.I'm forgetting one or two. There's a weird, gross mystery that revolves around demonic possession that I can't remember the name of and an haunted house that I'm pretty sure is the Cursed Chateau. I'd have to review it to be sure but reading the synopsis I'm pretty sure that's the one I played in and enjoyed.
>>87481744Are there any games out there similar to Warhammer Fantasy RPG 4e, but minimalist?
>>87496006Not an OSR question anon, feel deep shame!But DCC is about all I can think of.
>>87496006Nothing official and not much commerical. There's a B/X hack called Small But Vicious Dog that does the Old World adequately. I don't know that I'd call it minimalist but it's based of B/X so it's pretty straightforward. It does have some flaws. The status rules are surprisingly stupid but the worst bits can be shaved off.There's a book from Running Beagle Games called Comes Chaos that is meant to be a WHFRPG analog but it's just a skew of B/X to a darker setting with some modified classes. Not bad but a half-measure.Warband is about being in Chaos warband. That's it I guess.I want to say I saw a career advancement system hack based off of ACKS but I think that was a fevered dream.
What would OSR D&D 4e be like?
>>87494861>>87494558I run Lotfp. But yeah it's just B/X with some really nice house rules. Love the specialist class. There's not much to talk about though as far as the ruleset though, and the adventures ar good, but definitely not for everyone.I like setting books though and they haven't put a new one of those out in a while.World of the Lost and Frostbitten and Mutilated we're still available on Amazon though last time I checked, both have a lot to offer.
>>87494377In my whitebox game characters roll a d6 and get the following:1-2: 3 HP3-4: 4 HP5-6: 5 HPSame average but less swingy.
>>87496141The 4e style is unfortunately the anti-OSR.
>>87496141HD to ACMonster types (brutes, mooks...)All classes have same power resources
re: licensing chat i'm thick as muck, let me know if i've got this right:- whether game rules and terms could be copyrighted, trademarked, or patented was always ambiguous.- using the OGL was basically agreeing to a contract with Wizards that you could use their material under their terms, and they wouldn't sue.- retroclone authors skirted around specific terminology and tables until B/X Essentials.have the authors not basically shot themselves in the foot by agreeing to the OGL in the first place, since they're then agreeing to those Wizards terms? instead of just relying on bog-standard copyright law?were any retroclone authors ever actually threatened or sued by Wizards for having D&D-style rules but NOT using the OGL?
>>87496703>have the authors not basically shot themselves in the foot by agreeing to the OGL in the first place, since they're then agreeing to those Wizards terms?Kinda, it depends on if Wizards can revoke the licence or not. If they can then everyone who signed the OGL fucked themselves HARD.>were any retroclone authors ever actually threatened or sued by Wizards for having D&D-style rules but NOT using the OGL?No, but TSR did threaten to sue various companies and as far as I know all of them were settled out of court.
>a dwarf hold that has become home to a dragon after it evicted the previous residents>an isolated manor with a mysterious lord that tries to lure adventurers into his service with promises of riches>a treasure map written in ancient script that seems to lead to a previously undiscovered continent>a lord hosts a grand hunt where adventurers track down rare and dangerous beasts for rewards and a chance to take part in the greatest hunt of a lifetime>a strange door has appeared in the cellar of the local inn and the sounds of furious warfare can be heard from withinRate my plot hooks so far. I need smaller rumors to work with as well.
>>87496730cheers anon.>if Wizards can revoke the licence or notthis is where we're at, right? and where my brain is smooth. i understand it comes down to *whether* they can do this, but even without the 'in perpetuity', 'non-revocable', whatever, language: can a company really decide a published document changes after the fact?the OGL at the time seemed like a nifty idea, and i think the designer's intentions were solid. definitely boosted WotC's sales. but it feels like they're mapping a software concept to art. the closest example i can think of would be sampling in music.>TSR did threaten to sue various companies>all of them were settled out of court.so is it fair to say TSR created this problem (to keep/maintain a monopoly) then Hasbro's response was a we-won't-sue-you agreement?if this was challenged in a court of law (Paizo Inc. vs Wizards of the Coast LLC, 2025) would it set a precedent for all future publishers?
>>87496822>can a company really decide a published document changes after the fact?Depends on the judge at the time. The law is deeply, deeply retarded and based upon the whims of powerful and largely ignorant people.>so is it fair to say TSR created this problem (to keep/maintain a monopoly) then Hasbro's response was a we-won't-sue-you agreement?Yeah pretty much.>if this was challenged in a court of law (Paizo Inc. vs Wizards of the Coast LLC, 2025) would it set a precedent for all future publishers?Yes. Such a case would change everything in all of gaming, not just tabletop. For better or for worse.This case is very important but if anyone tells you they know how it will play out they are lying. As far as the law is concerned, Hasbro has a case to be made here.
>>87497020>all of gamingIt would affect open software as well.
>>87494558It was replaced as "NOT YOUR DADDY'S D&D" by MARK BARK>>87496703http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=dt20010417h>Q: There's a lot of material in the SRD that seems too simple to copyright or comes from the public domain. Why does Wizards of the Coast call the whole thing Open Game Content (OGL)?>A: One of the objectives of the OGL/d20 project is to create a "safe harbor" that clearly identifies material that can be used, derived from, modified, and distributed without fear of litigation. To that end, the SRD contains material that is public domain, copyright, and somewhere in between. But using the OGL, it all carries with it the same, uniform set of rights, thus creating the safe harbor.
>>87494193Group init works better with phases like a wargame, where the group that won init does the phase then the group that didn't, rather than a group doing all their activities for the round then the group that lost init. Its a problem in b/x, where it is simplified because its Basic, but the simplification is less good or at least swinngier. New characters tend to be level 1, no xp bonus, but I have 1000xp to get out of level 1. Higher level adventuring has much higher rewards and quickly makes up the gap. There should be some penalty for character death though, otherwise it takes away from a variety of things such as cautious exploration and thoughtful player actions. There is some debate about starting the characters at higher levels if they have already played the game several times, I'm not sold on it entirely. The idea being that they won't have fun with a lower level character, which seems to highlights a problem with the player rather than the game. I'm sure there are circumstances where it would be fine, use your judgment, but handing out freebies is a generally sticky precedent.
>>87497020thanks anon.>>87497103>>87497119yeah this just seems really shifty in retrospect. i get why shovelware d20 system authors were into it, but it comes off restrictive rather than permissive. a "safe harbor" from your own lawyers? how generous.
>>87496141Strike! is the 4e clone. It woudln't look like osr at all, its starting from a very different position but there are clones and homage in various other games. Not everything has to be, or can be even, osr. Doesn't make it not good or whatever, its just not the same thing.
>>87497311>a "safe harbor" from your own lawyers? how generous.In the aftermath of T$R suing you for posting stat blocks on usenet, it kind of wasThe OGL was Magic Circle of Protection from Lawsuits
>>87496819Why do you need so many different hooks at once? They seem fine, high fantastical whimsy vibe if that's what you're into. I've found that the start of the campaign goes a lot more smoothly if you start the group in front of the dungeon you have prepped and then accumulate rumours about other events as you go rather than giving them a bunch of options and a starting town, but ymmv. I have found running the elevator pitch of the different dungeons I have in mind past them like your hooks and then preping the one they say they want works though. I've been using a variation of this for rumours, let the players say what sort of rumour they are asking about>specific dungeon or >areaand adding a D4 for veracity, 1: false, 2-3: partially true, 4: True and accurate The group gets a free roll whenever they return to civilization or encounter friendly groups because people gossip. Further rolls cost 1d6X10sp of legwork, schmoosing, bribes, etc.
I want to kill a Gold Dragon
>>87497526That’s some good advice, thanks.
>>87495959ntaI've ran Forgive Us a while ago. It was pretty fun, the encounter with the other looters turned into a great running fight that lead into the guard animals. The secret entrance to the underground section is a bit out-of-nowhere so I telegraphed it a bit. Fun adventure.
>>87495183To add to the other anon, No Rest for the Wicked is a great little side to have for wartime sessions. More settings than modules but there's varying degrees of useful stuff in Vornheim, A Red & Pleasant land and Veins of the Earth. ymmv. An anon here run Quelong(sp) and said it was pretty good. Looks like a decent vietnamish hex crawl.
>>87497597>things I want but am unlikely to do, maybe someone else can run with itI want to run a Carcossan Marches game.
Any tips on making good puzzles?
>>87497955Go to a six year old, if they can solve it, it will be a tough puzzle for your players.
>>87498753I like that artwork
>>87485620would your players settle for crits being a max roll instead of double damage
>>87497751I like AR&PL but I didn't put it on my list because it does suffer a bit from artpunkism. It's very nice to look at. The game information is on the sparser side, or at least it's far outweighed by descriptive text, and it's a bit limited in utility. It's not the worst of Zak's books in this regard, that dubious honor definitely goes to Blue Medusa, but it doesn't have the same value as Vornheim or even FB&M. FB&M suffered from being rather dull but at least it was a pretty straightforward adventure setting.I bought AR&PL because my wife likes Alice in Wonderland and I've never had the opportunity to use it because it's such a goddamn dangerous setting. Everything is a vampire. It's brutal. The current party seems to be moving forward with a pretty good head of steam though so if they can keep the witch-hunter under control they might be able to get by in Voivodja. I'm not sure how well my wife's patchwork living flesh golem will manage in the courts of the vampire kings and queens though.
>>87481744My rules set is like some musty, decades old quilt you find in granny's linen closet>LL Revised as a base, though Advanced is the book I reference along with Ad&D dmg and RC (Druids, Paladins, Half-Elf/Orcs occasionally are options based on where in the campaign world new PCs are created)>Ability Score Gen from Worlds without Numbers. Assignable array of 14, 12, 11, 10, 9, 7 or roll 3d6 in order then change any one to a 14. This was basically just to get some huge skeptics from past 3e/5e groups to join the game later on, now only the most autistic still choose the array>Minimum starting hit points, Encumbrance, scroll/potion creation from LotFP>Thief skills done using 2d6 House Rule by Dyson Logos (with Dex mod)>Goblin Punch Death and Dismemberment table for when players hit 0 hp>Fighters (and only fighters) have essentially 3e Great Cleave, I think its called Chop Til You Drop or something (I dont know who came up with it)>Dutch Courage: Any character may heal themselves by spending twenty minutes binding their wounds, catching their breath, and consuming a pint of wine. Doing so heals the character of 1d6 points of damage. This method of first aid may only be used once per day. (Dont remember the source, possibly Tower of the Archmage)>Carousing and Mishap Table to gain extra XP from Jeff's GameblogThere's more, but most of it isnt player facing like this stuff and I dont have my House Rules doc on me
>>87499324>Minimum starting hit points,wait what?
>>87499375Role, add/sub Con mod, if its not at least this number, take this number Roll normally for all future levelsIt's a decent compromise to just saying max hp at level 1, and unless dwarf rolls really well, it maintains fighter supremecy
Is there a repository for cool trap ideas?I’m running out of steam for this dungeon.
>>87499448Ohhhhh I'm retarded. A set minimum rather than just "1" on a dice.
>>87497955>>87499453I've had good times going through this list https://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2016/03/1d135-osr-style-challenges.htmlThey're not all winners but there's likely something you can use. CC's Tricks, Empty Rooms and Basic Trap design has been useful too. I feel like there's a few good blogposts of puzzle/trap design I have read but don't immediately recall them. I'll post if it emerges. I sort of think it was on Hack & Slash but it might have been the Alexandrian.
>>87497452>In the aftermath of T$R suing you for posting stat blocks on usenetlmao did this actually happen?
>>87499571Yeah, although usually it was just a C&DIt's why the faggots who keep acting like anyone worried WOTC will frivolously sue are schizos cause seethe
>>87497955The only way I’ve ever had players solve puzzles is to give them visual representations. Any puzzleYou conceptualize in your head is going to be very difficult to verbally explain. So I’ve resorted to props. Physical (paper/cardboard) puzzle pieces or giving parts of a coded message to translate, invisible ink messages, writing backwards in mirrors. Riddles that my mentally disabled brother who is forever age 5 can solve. One of my players has a PHD in Math he always plays magic users and lives for riffles and code breaking. He made a translation wheel for ancient Dwarven runes so he could translate super fast.
Correct me if I am wrong but after looking into some of the nu-osr, it seems to me that the common factor among them all is that they offload 99% of the work (including world building) to the GM. I am talking about things like Mothership, Electric Bastionland, Into the Odd and Troika!.It is true that some of the old rpgs had simpler mechanics but also gameplay was also simpler and there was not need for a complicated setting to play them. That is not to say we did not have a huge amount of shared lore from literature to call upon when playing.These new rpgs are missing that shared lore and they don't seem to make any effort to build something that takes its place. To me they seem husks of rpg systems.
The last time I DM'd I ran B/X, and I had a blast. My players liked the simplicity compared to stuff like Pathfinder. Now that I'm DMing again, they said they liked how basic and freeform/houseruley it was, and the less heroic playstyle, but didn't like the lack of char options. I'm looking at ACKS or AS&SH now. Probably not going to do the weird fantasy stuff in AS&SH, and I've heard the setting is pretty baked in. I'm also not sure we'll get to name level to do a lot of the stuff ACKS is focused on (though, in every single game I run, my players drool over the thought of making a stronghold/town, setting up trade routes, etc.), so I don't actually know what to pick. Can I get a QRD on these two systems. I also see that AS&SH has multiple editions, should I worry about those?
>>87499659Most of them are crass cash grabs by a certain ilk of bespectacled hipster archetype.
>>87499726ACKS 2nd Ed should be out this summer. All of the AS&SH stuff is compatible. Jeff just kept refining and adding to it.
>>87499726Hyperborea is basically streamlined AD&D, you can use it without the setting. The book doesn't have fantasy races like Elves and Dwarves though.ACKS has a great class system and even rules to create your own, but dislike the feat system. You can run without it however.Another option is Advanced Fantasy Tome for OSE, it's basically B/X but with AD&D classes and options both for race-as-class and race-and-class.
>>87499726Try Castles & Crusades. Stripped down version of AD&D with stupidly simple skill system without sacrificing any of the rich setting.
>>87499726>but didn't like the lack of char optionsGuess I shouldn't be surprised seeing they are pathfinder shitters.
>>87499611Threatening people is one thing, actually taking things to court is another, much more dangerous, prospect. A judge could very well say "you don't own that" and fuck WotC over completely. And they know that.
>>87500207C&C is not a stripped down AD&D, it's a reverse engineered 3e-to-sort-of-AD&D clone. And its saves are busted.
>>87500347That's how I feel. But atleast they accept race-as-class. I don't understand them.
>>87500462Maybe you could try to talk to them to understand that in B/X you're not limited to what's on your character sheet but what you can do in the game? If you think about it like that, the character options are endless.
>>87500408How the fuck it is a "reverse engineered 3e-to-sort-of-AD&D clone" when the reason it was made in the first place was because the authors disliked 3e. It is AD&D and AD&D2nd inspired with simplified skill system. Even Gary Gygax developed for it because it no doubt reminded him of AD&D but with simpler system.
>>87500634>How the fuck it is a "reverse engineered 3e-to-sort-of-AD&D clone"Nigger they took the 3.5 SRD and changed shit to be AD&D-likeAre you one of those retards that also insists DCC isn't a 3e shitbrew?
What are your favourite places to find d&d art for your games besides google?
>>87500710DCC aimed to be a streamlined version of 3E without the fluff.C&C aimed for the fucking opposite. Yes to the fluff but no to the 3d retarded system. They designed a 1st/2nd hybrid with the Siege System as skill/feats simplification.The very intend and design was the opposite of what you believe it is.
>>87499324>>87499448Please post the rest of the house rules when you can anon, I'm interested.
>>87500844The intention is one thing, how they arrived at it is another -- they arrived at it by taking the 3e rules and reworking them to resemble AD&D without being too similar to AD&D because it was a common belief back then that WotC would sue you if you did that. (Then OSRIC happened and people realized that no, they won't.)
>>87493808>Honestly I don't understand how DND had the staying power it did when it's production was so slapdash.Because it was, and is, fucking awesome.
>>87501208Wrong, dee-en-dee is heckkin BADASS
>>87500388and if WotC wins they sue you out of existence, with that lesson quickly noted throughout the entire gaming world.This is why these things settle.
>>87494586>Summon spell is too involved and dangerous to be useful.I just quit an OSE game and one of the major factors contributing to me quitting was the DM adding the Summon spell. It was being cast for every fight and was just annoying as fuck.
>>87500520That's an understandable take, but I've explained that to them. The more I think about it, I realize they want something tangible off the start, something to go off of. It's like writing a book. If you start (especially as an inexperienced author) staring at a blank page going "I'm gonna write a fantasy book" that makes it incredibly hard to start. You don't know what to do. Similarly, looking at "Fighter, M-U, Cleric" has so much possibility that it's hard to think about. Especially not knowing how exactly it's going to work out, and being afraid of me telling them no. (Which has only happened with one player who absolutely can not imagine dnd not as an anime).
>>87499726They way I personnally got my more modern minded players onboard is using a point buy system I found for LotFP in an online zine. Mathematically it boils down close enough to doing it by classes, but they get to pick and choose if they want a little bit of specialist skills or some cleric lvls or maybe just making their saves really good. The game plays the exact same way outside of character creation since the mechanics are completely untouched, but it allows my players to feel like they can tailor their experience a bit more.
>>87501909>online zineWas it Black Dog? I've read some good stuff in there but I've never taken the time to implement any.
>>87501875ntayrt but I added a D50 Background/failed previous career table to character gen and it seemed to help give everyone enough of a nudge for inspiration that had some mechanical backing.
>>87501935Undercroft. It was in number #4 I think. I got it off of the osr trove years ago and kept it since. Im at work right now but maybe I can dump the pdf when I get home.As an added bonus, it facilitates any for of house ruling you might do that concerns character creation. And for your irreductible turbo grogs, they have templates that emulate classes as they are in the book.
>>87501562That's remarkably bad DMing to allow a single introduced element to become such of an interference. He should have used this thing:https://summon.totalpartykill.ca/That spell RAW is not great anyway. Having it be a single round casting time leads to the problem you've described. It should take a full turn and have more penalties the faster you try and cast it. I like the meat of the spell but the procedure needs to be reworked.
>>87501989Found it. I'll have a look through them all later but I did look at the system you described. It's close to, if not exactly, the classless LotFP system I've seen floating around elsewhere. I've dabbled with it before.
>>87502063This DM had us hexcrawling using the Expert wilderness tables at first level. He seemed to interpret "encounters are not guaranteed to be balanced" as "encounters are guaranteed to not be balanced (and the disparity always favors the monsters). It took 11 sessions to get to 2nd level and 80% of my XP came from running away from encounters.And then, in week 12, he introduced Summon. The next three fights went:>1st level MU casts Summon, his only spell.>Party wastes resources fighting the uncontrolled summon.>Wounded party now has to face monster, MU has no spells to assist.We ended up not having a session for three or four weeks because of the holidays, and when the game finally came back I didn't because I was not missing it at all.
any good youtube letsplay you like?
>>875022873d6 down the line is nice. They're running through Arden Vul at the moment.
>>87502287Do people really watch these
>>87502281Holy shit that sounds dumb. Bad moves on the DM's part but the nitwit who kept using the summoning spell as his only resource sounds like a real braintrust too.Better luck next time.
>>87502287>>87502381I'm still puttering through their Dolmenwood. It's pretty good. They're all obviously long time players so there's not a lot of dicking around. It's humorous watching them find ways to preserve the Fighter with a 5 CON from becoming a complete liability.
>>87501875You're the DM, you call the shots man. If they don't like it then they can go play pathfinder instead. What B/X system are you using? Maybe you can add the mechanical stuff by adding some of the gazetteer classes, shit like Mystic/Paladin/Ranger/Scout/Assassin/Bard/Illusionist/etc. For plain fighters you can read up on the Rules Cyclopedia and add Weapon Mastery rules or you can even add the Background skills if you want, though that's going closer to BECMI than B/X (still OSR though).
>>87502287>>87502422Questing Beast's Winter's Daughter video is solid.feels like how people actually play D&D.
>>87499726WWN also has some added crunch.
>>87502527maybe too much
I just realized OP didn't post the "contribute to the thread" post. Here's a monster of the monster-as-trap variety and my own personal revenge on players who leave cheeto dust stains on my books:>Orange Duster>Alignment: Neutral>Armor Class: 9 >Hit Dice: 1hp*>Move: 0' (0')>Attacks: 1 spore cloud>Damage: Special>No. Appearing: 1-20 (0)>Save As: NH>Morale: NA>Treasure Type: None>XP Value: 10>9” orange fungal tower. These seemingly harmless fungi present a surprising hazard, releasing a cloud of incredibly fine powdery orange spores that cause a mild itch. However, if not immediately washed off, the spores migrate to areas of the body where sweat pools (neck, armpits, crotch, feet) until they react violently to their host's sweat and grow explosively, consuming their host as a new bloom of Orange Dusters is created.>Spore Burst: If a warm creature approaches within 5', the Orange Duster releases a 10' cloud of spores. All subjects covered in the itchy spores take a -1 to hit and ability checks for 1d6+1 turns (save vs poison negates). It takes 1 pint of water and 1 turn to wash off the spores, plus any additional time to remove and don armor.>Sweat Bloom: There is a 2-in-6 chance each round a spore-covered subject spends in combat that the spores bloom, dealing 1d8 points of damage. The subject takes an additional 1d4 damage each round until death, at which point the character becomes 2d10 Orange Dusters. Once the spores have exploded, their growth can only be halted by a cure disease spell. Other forms of extreme exertion may trigger the bloom as determined by the referee.
What the fuck
>>87496822>>87496822the problem for wotc is that it's an incredibly hard case to make even when you own the best jew lawyers in town. Literally almost everyone who wrote the actual ogl works in paizo, including the lawyer who drafted the document. How do you argue intent about the potential perpetuity of the license in a court against the very people who were responsible for the drafting of the document. It's basically the reason that Paizo came out with a statement immediately after the new ogl leaks that they are willing to fight it in court if necessary.I m not saying wotc would be unable to win eventually with the hasbro's deep pockets but if they lose they will have fucked themselves so fucking hard.It's probably why they pulled back and took some time to publishing the new ogl. They need a concrete way to invalidate the old ogl and fighting it out in court with paizo is not the simple solution in their minds (if they though that they had this in the bag it, the new ogl would be already published and they would already be in court)I think the old ogl is kinda safe but who knows
>>87503229Angry applehead cowboy is angry
>>87502287Yes.https://clericswearringmail.blogspot.com/search/label/actual%20play%20cast%20reviewsI also like my own... but I need practice - knocking the rust off the Ref belt and in producing the video aspect - to make it worthy of recommending. Really should have done the podcast format.
>>87492531I guess it's over for me then....
>>87501959I could give that a shot. I remember seeing the big background table in DCC. I might steal that.>>87502488>What B/X system are you using?We were just running straight B/X, by the book (with houserules, of course. Just no extra "published" material). Thinking about switching to ACKS because it fixes some of my/our problems.>Gazetteer Classes, etc.Hmm, haven't looked at those before. I'll have to check them out. It might be exactly what I need, instead of hoping someone's clone will fix it instead. Thanks
Has anyone tried playing an OSR game through play by post?My schedule is very limited these days so I was thinking of giving it a shot. Is it possible to have an enjoyable dungeon excursion given the natural delays in pbp?
>>87503038Some DMs take enforcing cleric and paladin restrictions very, very seriously. For those DMs, there is the Aleax, a combat encounter that says "Stop ignoring your alignment, idiot!"
>>87503038This guy always makes me laugh since the description mentions that every god “only has one”When you ascend do you just get a goodie bag + complimentary aleax? Do you have to remember to feed it?
>>87504223It should be, especially if you're doing turn-based procedural dungeon crawling. It'll just be very, very slow. Especially if you're doing a turn a day or less.
>>87504275one combat round takes a week minimum
>>87504275>>87504289It sounds like I might be better off doing solo adventures for a bit when my schedule allows.I like to think that keeping turns in a dungeon on a tight schedule would make things possible, but it sounds like a slog. Randos online are prone to flaking and I haven't found a discord server for OSR PBP, which comes as no surprise.
>>87504289You don't have to do back-and-forth in play-by-post, you can have players set a combat strategy and then the DM interprets it and runs the combat."My fighter will take a front rank and hold the enemy back; if I drop below 15 hp I'll want to do a fighting retreat," that sort of thing.
>>87504182The classes are all in the Rules Cyclopedia so you don't have to go hunting down the PDFs trying to find them.
>>87504398My mistake, only Druid and Mystic are there.
>>87504382It's fine for trashmobs that the DM just wants to gloss over but I've played games like that in pbp and no one likes it.
>>87504182Index to what classes are available in Basic/BECMI and where: http://pandius.com/becmicls.html
Is this a tatzelwurm? >>87502490You know that channel’s not for me but its not offensive either. I think I might get the appeal
>>87503229MR. HAT (frown mode)Armour Class 1 Hit Dice 11** (49HP)Attacks [3 × PUNCH (1d6 + 1), THAC0 11 [+8]Movement 180’ (90’) Saving Throws D10 W10 P10 B10 S12 (7)Morale 9Alignment ChaoticXP 1,450Number Appearing 1d1 (1d1)Treasure Type H
>>87484000Earth Dawn rpg has the best reason dungeons exist. Called “Cairns” They were giant are bomb shelter/vaults built to survive the magic demon apocalypse which just ended a few hundred years ago. Traps and Labyrinthine architecture were to keep demons out. Some are sealed, some breached, some houses great treasures of the civilizations that built them.
Well. I bought the Basic Fantasy hardback. Now I have to try to justify buying OSRIC to myself. It's $52 usd on Amazon right now.Does OSRIC contain everything from all the supplemental 1e books, like Wilderness Adventures and Manual of the Planes?
>>87496006Shouldn't you ask the Warhammer thread?
>>87504926iirc they call the cover monster a Lybec in that module but I have the older copy.
>>87505311>Does OSRIC contain everything from all the supplemental 1e books, like Wilderness Adventures and Manual of the Planes?I don't think so. You should find a pdf online and check it out yourself though. There's really nothing wrong with that if you're ordering it sight unseen.
>>87505311It doesn't even contain everything from 1e coreAD&D needs a faithful, complete retroclone
>>87504182http://aaronrpa.blogspot.com/2020/11/occupations-for-osr-pcs-wipplaytest.htmlTry this out. Gives the backgrounds more of a mechanical flair and tailors to BX.
My Holmes style 0ed clone I cobbled together was nice enough that I done some revisions. I am writing it so I can likely just make it CC if 1.2 happens.
I've been re-reading OA, and it seems like there's an idea of a specific structure of play when the party is in town. It's interesting to me.
>>87506287this does sound kindo neat
>>87506343When I read it, I frankly want to throw out the demihumans. Human only offers a lot of verisimilitude.My main concern in practice is that the high attrition rate of AD&D doesn't quite gel with what feels like OAs implicit idea of using martial arts in town instead of swords, the yakuza's special subsystem, and the honor/family generation stuff.Although I haven't played true AD&D in a while, and maybe full HP at first level and negative HP make PCs survivable enough that these feudal intrigue elements can be introduced from the beginning.
>>87481744A mechanical question, when the players wish to retire, say that it is their turn, would disengaging with the enemy simply give such enemies a bonus to attack on their following action if the players tried to ran away? Meaning there is no proper "attack of opportunity" like in later editions?
Might be a bit late in the thread, but what is the absolutely most stripped-back mechanics-only retro-clone of OD&D and/or B/X? I'm talking mechanical fidelity, but cut out all the fantasy-jargon and just give me the raw rules.
>>87507788Why do you talk like a fag? I'm not sure I understand your question. In B/X when you retreat, you move at half speed. Enemies don't out of turn attacks.
>>87508005For utmost mechanically fidelity of OD&D you want Delving Deeper, but you'll want to check both 2nd and 3rd edition since some changes for even more fidelity made the game too fiddly imo.There's also Whitebox which is much more streamlined
>>87485825Maybe people just actually make stuff they think is cool.
>>87508296These are corporations. You think they're doing it out of some kind of genuine passion? That type of thinking is squashed right out of you when you work for a company like that, because it's overruled and you're even sometimes punished for suggesting new things or working on something in an unexpected way. Hope is crushed and you continue working at your faggot job until you can't take it anymore or you're laid off, or something more lucrative comes around again until your hopes can get crushed all over again. This is what it's like working in anything resembling a creative role at a company with more than 40 or so employees.The woke shit is purely because the people at the top either believe it is profitable, or because they are ideologically driven to the point that they value their crusading and whatever self-validating feelings they get by having the company engage in what they believe is some kind of force for productive social change.
>>87486098Hell yeah, I'm releasing all my shit Creative Commons Zero
The player character died in the dungeon. At what moment I should introduce his new character? Immediately, on the next encounter or in town?
>>87508482The next room they enter has the new character somehow.Could be a goblin captive. Could be someone trapped in stone with a stone to flesh scroll wrapped around the face by a spurned lover. Could be someone who was separated from their party and was lost in the dungeon. Anything that creates a little story and breaks the ice so the characters can slip into the party with ease.
>>87508005For BX it's gotta be ose
>>87508482wild magic causes one of the henchmen to swap places with a different guy from miles away, who happens to be an adventurer and decides to play along with the group. nobody questions why this happens every time someone in the group dies. maybe the gods do it.
>>87492351>I don't know if fixing my sleep will helpit will. Christ your brain is probably acting at 50%
Love me dungeons, love me ruins. Gunna make everything ruins. Cities are built in ruins, ruins have to be cleared to make farmland, underground is all ruins, seemingly endless floors of ruin. Some ruins extend thousands of floors into the sky. Inhabitants can only guess at the function of some ruins. Others are utterly incomprehensible or perhaps merely so ruined as to be impossible to identify.No one knows who built the ruins. Nor how they were built. But there are whispers that somewhere in the ruined world there is a core library filled with all the lore of the ancient builders. The nation that controls such knowledge will no doubt dominate the world.
>>87503954Go to a sleep clinic, anon. Please. I waited until I was over 30 to do it. I've had chronic sleep issues and sleep apnea, and the moment it started to improve my life got better dramatically. You are fucking yourself over so bad, you forget and lose conception of what it was even like to have good sleep. I hadn't slept well since I was a kid. Now my life is totally changed. Do it, don't put it off, even if you don't have insurance or whatever and have to take on medical debt, you will be happy you did.
>>87508482An often overlooked use of traps is to have a replacement character trapped in the most near by one. Hireling field promotions is good too.
>>87508874Life of the english "people" after the fall of Rome.
>>87509439>Life of the englishItalian*
>>87509498The italian knew that Rome fell, they know who build all that shit 100 years ago it was their grandpas, or well their slaves.
Is it spell slots (max number of prepared spells) or known spells (number of spells from spellbook)?
>>87497311>i get why shovelware d20 system authorsD20 was a separate, more restrictive licensing agreement and trademark.
>>87509566spell slots. You can have pretty much infinite amount of spells in spellbook. The only limit is difficulty of transcribing them and amount of pages inside the book
>>87509507>100 yearsnigga we are talking about over a thousand years. There were still cities where 80% of it was uninhabited ruins across Italy in the 1500s.
>>87509439i love the post-roman english vibe with communities built into the ruins. roman or post-roman era britain would be fun setting too. heart of darkness has a fun bit early on imagining the experience of romans first exploring britain. traveling halfway across the world to a giant island made entirely of swamps and snake-infested forests, both of which are full of blue guys who want you dead
>>87509650>he doesn't know
How much social interaction does your game have? I mean when the player speaks on behalf of his character. For example, when players meet a group of NPCs in the wilderness, or a non-aggressive monster who knows a common language in a dungeon.
>>87510243A lot. It's hard to give you a good estimation but if I have anykind of thinking creature I will have them roll for disposition and play that out.
>>87510243I think it's important to not cargo cult reaction tables everywhere. Have some monsters be hostile, territorial, aggressive, non-plussed, chill, bored, or curious without rolling.
>>87485633I like the crystal caste d4.
>>87510580>crystal caste d4FOE
I like ad&d 2e
>>87505311just buy it its so cool
>>87510436yeah. it's like wandering monster tables to me. water boils on discontinuities, if there's a smooth space in your prep, because something was randomly generated or just not thoroughly prepped out then reaction rolls can create some texture for your ideas to grow on, but if you've got already got a good idea of the motivations and mindset of the monsters/NPCs in an area then you don't necessarily need to add a random element to it, you can just use your existing prep to make a judgment call>>87511065i had the boxed 2e starter set with the audio CD with the embarrassing nerds and bonegnasher the ogre who's doing a macho man impression. i haven't played 2e outside of that but it's very nostalgic for me anyway, and the vibe playing that set gave me back then, if not the mechanics of 2e, is what i'm chasing with OSR
Does /osrg/ still like Kevin crawford
>>87511919why wouldn't they. SWN and WWN are cool, godbound is cool, scarlet heroes is cool, silent legions has some cool stuff but i'm not as big on that one
>>87511667> had the boxed 2e starter set with the audio CD with the embarrassing nerds and bonegnasher the ogre who's doing a macho man impression.I fucking love that Intro set. Cheesy in the best way. And the adventures are pretty good too
>>87511065I like For Gold & Glory better
>>87481744anyone has a cheat sheet that includes the saves and shit?
How much visual aid do you give your players when running dungeons?Do you show them artwork, drawings, maps, adventure art,... Or do you run pure theater of the mind?I have spoiled my players with lots of art from 5e adventures in the past, now that we are playing OSE i'm looking for a new approach.
>>87512379I find that visual handouts greatly increase player immersion. Give them everything but the map
>>87512283For what edition or retroclone?
>>875124661st edition, not the 0e
>>87485633You can buy roman-numeral labeled d4s with 12 sides (three sets of I - IV). Same with d6s (two sets of each pips).
>>87512496OSRIC Appendix A
Should I buy Basic Fantasy or Old School Essentials?>Which is presented better?>Which has better writing?>Which has better art?>Which is most faithful to BX?
>>87512751OSEEh, hard to sayAlso hard to sayOSE
>>87512751>presented betterNo idea what you mean by this. People say OSE because the tables are with the player classes but the reason why BFRPG doesn't do this is because the DM is going to be looking at it every session while the player will only be looking at it once during character creation and when they level up. So if you're a perma player, I guess OSE. If you're a forever DM, BFRPG.>writingDon't know, they seem pretty even. Though OSE is bloated with a bunch of optional rules.>artI'd say OSE has a more consistent art style.>faithfulnessOSE
>>87511065I like a select few ideas from it, mainly specialized priests and to some extent the idea but not the mechanics of wizard schools, but not the whole package. >>87511530What's annoying about 2E settings is that the games actually do them better than the actual TSR supplements which are by and large neat ideas with terrible execution. Planescape has tons of planes that are just downright worthless in terms of adventuring and a lot of the cool ideas like the gith stuff is more down to Avellone in PS:T than anything in the actual setting books. Dark Sun by RAW has that terrible char stable system and higher numbers syndrome, 2E psionics and stuff that makes you wonder if they thought anything through like clerics casting water spells fairly easily without even getting into the halfling-wanking setting revision. I don't care enough about Ravenloft to critique it much beyond them shoving shitty WW-style metaplot villains everywhere.Pretty much every single 2E setting will give you the feeling of "I need to fix this shit" if you're going to run it.
>>87512751>>87512789>>87512812>>87512954Naked elf chicks for fast responses on /tg/, I see.
>>87513103I didn't even notice the naked elf chick, I was focused on the post lmao.
>>87511065I was a big fan of specialty priests
>>87511919? Why wouldn't we, he is just not the personal prefered one for lots of us (in my case I love beyond the wall).
>>87513103I prefer Artigas and his orcs myself, but then I try to keep my coomerism from my /tg/.
>>87512973>terrible char stable systemYou don’t like the character tree? Why’s that?
>>87512751Whitebox>pdf is free just like basic fantasy>paperback is 5 bucks like basic fantasy>better presented the basic fantasy, most things are presented in two pages spread like OSE>still has examples and actual text unlike the bullet points frenzy that is OSE>better art than basic fantasy, more consistent than OSE since it's all from the same artist>can choose between three coversIt's not BX though
>>87513544No thieves mean it's better than BX
>>87513575this nerd's high school crush ran off with a slick thief
Thief is almost as bad as cleric. Hell, thief and cleric should be one single class called something like Cancer Knight so that i would only have to ban one class.
>>87505268Sounds very cool. Did they make modules for Earthdawn?
>>87513859Warrior, expert, magic user.
>>87513958Warrior, prostitute, magic-user
>the thief is....le badstop running them badly and they won't suck
>>87514103>no the thief is actually good if stretch every single reading of the rules to the breaking point so they become batman + spider-man + a ninja who can turn invisible and steal the armor off the person wearing it!
>>87513891Aye it was made by FASA back in the day. Same people that did Battletech and Shadowrun.
>>87514136>stretch every single reading of the rulesIt's hilarious that you think interpreting the skills to do what exactly they say they do is "stretching" while reinterpreting them to mean "roll a 20% chance or eat shit" is the proper way to run thieves, and then get mad that they suck and they take basic adventuring stuff away from the other classes -- when you run them with your houserule bullshit.
>>87514373>interpreting the skills to do what exactly they say they doWhere does climb walls say you can spider-man climb. Provide a citation.
>>87514645>He reads "climb sheer surfaces">His brain substitutes "climb walls"This is the crux of the problem. Reading it like that takes basic adventuring competency away from other classes and gives it to the thief as a special ability with a very low chance of success, as if it were something unusual or exotic. And it's all because your brain malfunctions when presented with words like "sheer" or "in shadows."
>>87514772Show me where it says "climb sheer surfaces" nigger
>>87514136>>87514772In the same way you need lockpicking tools to open a lock, you need climbing gear to climb walls as a thief.>>87515042He's an OSE player that's why.
>>87509041>>87508828alright. I was just wondering if anyone had had a similar experience and fixing themselves.
I'm about to run OD&D for my 2 brothers. I settled on B2, with B4 adapted to be the Cave of Wonder.Following an anon in this thread, I am thinking of moving B2's various monsters farther away from the Keep and expanding the Caves of Chaos a bit so the various warrens aren't right on top of each other.Anyone have any advice on DMing these modules?
>>87515042>>87515060>MUH B/X IS NOT REAL DEEUNDEEHow about supplement 1, page 4, you double niggers.
>>87515130I should also say I was thinking of letting the 2 players have 2 PCs each, then hiring retainers normally beyond that.
>>87515147>nearly sheer surfacesJust use your brain for a second retard. Does it seem realistic that someone could climb a flat surface? No it doesn't. If it's a cliff face or an old wall that has some foot and hand holds available then sure. Nowhere in the books, OSR or original B/X, does it say that thiefs can spideman climb a flat surface. That's the job of the referee to take that rule and making a ruling on it. God you're so braindead, just go back to 5e.
>>87515147>accuses others of bad reading comprehension>casually ignores the "NEARLY" part so he can stan B/X again
>>87515184>>87515185Now you're splitting hairs on "nearly" and asking "is it REALISTIC?"Nearly there just means it can't be literal glass.Your position is basically that the thief skills are for bog-standard adventuring tasks, and that the thief's terrible chances are because everyone involved from Gygax on down was either stupid or incompetent and just didn't notice the disparity between the mundane nature of the tasks and the poor chance of success. Everyone involved in designing, writing, playtesting, editing, revising, re-revising, and re-revising the thief over a good 10-15 year period. Hell, Frank Mentzer apparently thought thieves were overpowered, since he nerfed the shit out of them. Also you're claiming that people like Mike Mornard and Rob Kuntz and others are all telling bald faced lies when they say thieves at Gygax's table were quasi-supernatural badasses, not hapless scrubs who couldn't sneak without tripping over their boots and alerting every monster on a level. Maybe that's why you're grasping at straws like "NEEEEARLY" and "MUH REALISM" here.
>>87515288You're beyond help.
>>87515307Well maybe if you had some arguments that weren't working at cross purposes to themselves and proposing ahistorical nonsense. At least you backpedaled from "it doesn't say sheer" to "nearly!!!" so that's minor progress.
The thief was never a good idea because it is a class based around the archetype of a loner. Most of the thiefs key strengths concentrate things such as being able acrobat their way into otherwise unaccessible areas or sneak into otherwise unaccessible areas.And all those activities neccesitate loner gameplay, sections of gameplay where all the spotlight is on one character rather than the group. That is simply poor game design.What remains after the thief when that is removed, is a "skill monkey".>Pick that lock, monkey!>Take the guards keys, monkey!And all of these skills could instead belong to eithera) a slightly specialized fighterorb) (which is the more vanilla option) spellcasting. Not to mention that both acrobatics and sneak can be facilitated by magical levitation or invisibility.BUT WAIT, you cry!>The thief can "levitate" and be "invisible", or pick locks/traps and pickpocket on demand as much as the situation demands it. No need for spell slots!The problem with this, is that if you design a dungeon to be challenging to a group with a thief, it becomes near-inaccessible to a group without a thief. If you design dungeon to be accessible without a thief, the thief-player will feel near-useless in the dungeon.The conclusion is that thieves represent cool tropes but make for bad gameplay. The solution is actually to ignore the class completely, or merge all it's abilities into a more-or-less fighting man class, which is like 15% thief and 85% fighter.I will however concede ONE thing however, and that is the potential for a group of theives to be an intresting type of game. Then noone needs to be left behind and outside the ability to act for certain portions of the game, and all dungeons can be designed to be near-inaccessible to groups without even several theives. I will also note that dnd works perfectly fine even with poorly thought out gameplay sections here and there, your milage running thieves will be worse, but far from terrible.
>>87515344Good God you're fucking dumb. I never said it didn't say "sheer surfaces." It's the direct job of the referee/DM to decide what that means and I doubt any will interpret it as climbing a wall like spiderman like the retarded ass interpretation you had. Saying think about it realistically isn't a cope, it's a direct mechanic of the fucking game. Now fuck off retard you're ruining the thread with your RAW retardation that makes no sense here.
>>87515369Any class system beyond fighting man and magic user with subclass/variants is a mistake.
>>87515381>I never said it didn't say "sheer surfaces."Are you not this guy? >>87515042 Then that wasn't aimed at you, settle down.
>>87515381And yes, there are multiple interpretations that can be done. But one common interpretation makes the thief shit at his job, and also makes all the other classes bad at sneaky shit, too. And one interpretation, backed by multiple sources, makes the thief not that, so why people would get mad and say "NO, you can't interpret it that way!" while simultaneously bitching about how the thief sucks (when interpreted the other way) is a fucking mystery. Like, stop shooting yourself in the foot.
>>87515344>"ahistorical", he says, arguing that 1983 interpretation based on a bad paraphrasing of the 1975 original and contradicted by its 1977 successor is actually the objective right and true way>>87515420>backed by multiple sourcesThat you fail to list
>>87515386That actually how I reasoned too in my homemade osr-dnd ripoff.Fighters, and Esotericists, was what I called the two classes.Three sub-variants of those two classes exist, that just tweak the function of the class a small bit. All esotericists can cast all types of magic, but lacking proficiency in the "holy" domain as a regular wizard compared to a clerical type of caster, just gives considerable drawbacks to the casting.
Speaking of retard-fights about Thief abilities, has anyone tried some of the periodical OSE classes that use Thief-style abilities for the magic-using classes instead of spells? Seems to me that it might make for an interesting experiment, although I think I'd be persuaded to smush them together into just one Magic-User.
>>87515438Mike Mornard and Rob Kuntz among others have attested to the quasi-magical nature of thieves at Gygax's table. It's not a secret history or anything, despite people (who are usually claiming the thief sucks and pushing some "fix" they cooked up) constantly acting like nobody alive knows how Gygax intended thieves to run.
>>87515420I literally don't give a fuck about the "thief is bad/good" debate, it's irrelevant to me because it's not about being a powerful hero. All the thief skills any other PC classes can do just that the thiefs do it better and need the tools to do so, whether improvised or proper, with a realistic expectations. So no running up walls like spiderman and no stealing armor off of enemies like skyrim. It's not that hard. They're shit at fighting and can't cast spells and that's fine with me.
>>87515501 Well that's totally fine, it's your table. Just understand you're slightly nerfing them. They should be roughly equivalent in power to other classes, and should absolutely be heroic at high levels like the other two.
>>87515531(I guess clerics can come too)
>>87515531Their nerf is offset by the fact they level up faster than the rest of the classes and backstab/sneak attack so it's not a huge deal.
>>87515450There’s more than one? I only ever saw the Gandalfy Wizard, or was it Mage? I hate percentile abilities so I wouldn’t do it as is but it sounds intriguing.
The only time thief skills should be rolled is when there is active opposition to the thief’s success. So pick pockets, alwaysOpen locks, only if time is a factor which it usually is in the dungeonTraps, alwaysMove Silently, only if there is an active sentryHide in Shadows, only if there is an active searcherClimb, only when it is a surface a normal person can’t climb or if trying to do so at normal speedHear noise, as open lock, time being the deciding factorNow quit arguing like a bunch of retards and use the obviously superior Warlock zine Thief.
>>87500043How much do I need to strip out of ASSH to use it for AD&D.
>>87516043I don’t know about v1 or 2, but Hyperborea 3e isn’t much like AD&D at all. It’s basically it’s own OSR system at this point
>>87515646There's a Cleric-like called the Acolyte as well. Sort of makes Turn Undead feel a lot more... cohesive? Since it's just following other mechanics to begin with.
2e Fixed the clerics with Specialty Priests, they are still pretty strong but much more in lines with other stuff and more flavorful too.
do you think more OSR DMs want to play their own settings or buy one to run?
>>87516620I've never really wanted to run anything but my own setting in D&D. It is a bit of a pain having to convert modules to fit, but I feel like it's usually worth it if the module's any good.
>>87516620I think OSR DMs tend to play their own settings.
>>87516620I'll run settings if I think they're cool, but usually I think my own are cooler, because I put only cool things I like in them, and I don't include lame shit I don't like.
>>87516620Running a setting means I actually have to read the book and learn how it works and its internal logic may be different than mine which could cause problems. Far easier to just make up my own shit, because inevitably when I have to riff on something it won't be off the mark.
>>87516620It depends on how much I steal from existing published settings for my own setting.
New thread here:>>87517812>>87517812>>87517812
Do any of you guys use Inkarnate or Wonderdraft?
>>87518004I've been using the free version of Inkarnate. I'm considering buying the year but I haven't had much time for map work so it would be a bit of waste right now.I like it but it's kind of a toy. A fun, useful toy but a toy nonetheless.