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Maximum Mike Edition

Spoilers for Cyberpunk Edgerunners ahead. Proceed at your own risk.

-Cyberpunk 2020 vs. Cyberpunk RED?
Cyberpunk 2020 is the second edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG that focuses on simulation gameplay and has a black trenchcoat aesthetic.
Cyberpunk RED is the fourth edition of the Cyberpunk TTRPG that is set after Cyberpunk 2020 following the Fourth Corporate War, focuses on more balanced gameplay and is more streamlined but has less content.

-Cyberpunk Rulesets (The Vault) (May not have all updated rulebooks, check official sources for updates)
bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4Md

-Resources for RED:
https://datapool2045.net/

-RED free-DLC and extra content
https://rtalsoriangames.com/downloads/

-Information on the Games: RED Easy Mode is available for FREE.
https://rtalsoriangames.com/cyberpunk/

-Errata Pages
https://rtalsoriangames.com/errata/

-Character Sheets
https://rtalsoriangames.com/downloads/

- Shadowrun and other cyberpunk genre games welcome
Please specify when you're talking about something other than Cyberpunk to avoid confusion.

Thread Question:
>How would you interest your group in Cyberpunk, if they've never heard of the genre before and have no knowledge besides media coverage of CP2077's launch?

Previous thread: >>87347023
>>
Hey choombas, noticed the old thread had dropped off the bottom of the board and into the archives. Had so much fun hanging out in that one, hope nobody minds I started a new one.

So. Welcome back to Night City. Or some version of it. Who remembers this?
>https://hunter-seeker.obsidianportal.com/
Wish it was still in active development, the streamlining to Interlock seems pretty good.
>>
>>87471879
>TQ

I did this exact thing! To hook them, I told them the same thing I tell people when I try to sell them on good SF in general: Cyberpunk is, at its core, taking the real world and extrapolating the line a bit. It's compelling because it's an examination of where we're heading (or, in some ways, where we already are).

All good fiction is in some way a reflection of the real deal, and while you may find the adventures of elves and dwarves and whatnot relatable, you already pay rent, you may or may not work a job you hate but feel you can't escape from, and you've undoubtedly felt before that the gap between the haves and have-nots is insurmountable. Therefore, when you roleplay in CyberPunk, you're able to embody your character far more easily than most other games- except you get some catharsis out of the fact that it's not real!
>>
>>87471879
I get them to watch the anime?
>>
>>87472481
talk about false advertising
>>
New DLC dropped
https://rtalsoriangames.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/RTG-CPR-DLC-HornetsPhramacy.pdf
>>
>>87472142
>an examination of where we're heading (or, in some ways, where we already are)
You're not wrong there, anon. I think the only updating cyberpunk (in general) needs is some tweaking to reflect developments in tech, aesthetics, and history... not too close to where we are now, but if you look at Gibson or Bethke, some of their ideas of the net are badly dated. Not to say there is no place for retro in cyberpunk, but it was always meant as (like Max Headroom) "five minutes into the future"...

It does feel at times like we are living in Night City, given that our lives are shaped and monitored by megacorps, and YouTube is full of rockerboys and medias. Prosthetics are advancing leaps and bounds each year, Musk is working on linking brain to computer, and whilst we may not have flying cars we have Uber, and that's the next best thing. Fortunately there aren't any solos - at least not around here!

In fact - you have hit the nail on the head about why I still love it as a genre, even the dated stuff. About the only thing I'm on the fence about is Gibson's notions of "voodoo gods in the net" and "transmissions from Alpha Centauri" - and even then the former might work if I was splicing the Ianos Games stuff into my campaign.

>>87472481
>I get them to watch the anime?
I haven't seen Edgerunners yet, but in general I like cyberpunk anime. I've not seen a lot, and even then only the really obvious stuff - Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Cyber City Oedo 808 and such. Wish it was more readily available, I love the ideas and the aesthetics.

>>87473510
Also a sneak peak at the new chromebook Black Chrome...
>https://rtalsoriangames.com/2023/01/20/black-chrome-peek-mark-1/
>>
>>87474044
>Musk is working on linking brain to computer,
Complete with the risk of brain damage! *gets a note* ...Sorry, I mean 'Core Damage'!
>>
>>87474498
>Core Damage
I'll bet you 5 eddies that "core damage" leads to humanity loss, anon. Also, calling it now. Musk is this timeline's Sabura Arasaka - hell, he's already tried to get his hands on nukes, if the rumour mill is true (wanting SpaceX to revive Project ORION)
>>
>>87472481
To be fair the Deibido x Ruci anime got a lot of people into the 2077 video game, and quite frankly I wouldn't be surprised if it has made people curious about the 2020 TTRPG. So maybe having your friends watch the anime will get them interested in trying the TTRPG.
>>
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>>87472481
When you need the Japanese to mop-up your PR disaster, and kicker is that they do a good job.
>>
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I bought Cyberpunk RED but have quickly lost hope that I'll ever find players for this. People just don't give a shit about anything.
>>
>>87473510
404 :-(
>>
>>87475860
Look on the bright side, anon. If you bought it in dead tree, you can take advantage of the fact it's currently out of print and go play scalper on eBay.

>>87475325
>Deibido x Ruci
You'll have to explain that one. I can't find either a series, film, or studio of that name.
>>
>>87475903
>If you bought it in dead tree, you can take advantage of the fact it's currently out of print and go play scalper on eBay.
I suppose that's a small comfort. I did get a cheap copy second hand (in good condition).
>>
>>87473510
It looks like they've made a quick update and changed the URL.
https://rtalsoriangames.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/RTG-CPR-DLC-HornetsPhramacyv1.11.pdf
The working link has "v1.11" at the end.
>>
>>87474498
Are you referencing Nisei's decision? Or is that already a thing in Red?
>>
>>87476014
>There is no Dex drug
Sadness
>>
>>87475921
At least yours was in good condition. Only one I could find was shop soiled - the front cover had been badly damaged, I think with a box cutter.
>>
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>>87474044
>BC
I haven't used Foundry until recently. Does stuff like this get added to it eventually, or am I going to have to do it by hand?
>>
>>87476453
Sorry anon, I had to Google that. I've never used Foundry VTT before - if I'm honest I don't really like the idea of it (because I'm kind of a friends round the table, beer and pizza kind of guy), but if it meant playing some Cyberpunk I'd give it a try.

Unfortunately this means I have no idea about how things are run in or added to the platform.
>>
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>>87476490
I use it for my /tg/ friends mostly. Since RED has a more or less official module, it handles a lot of the math and expedites everything. Thanks anyway.
>>
>>87476534
Hope you're all enjoying it. Is it actually worth engaging in? I can't decide if it sounds like fun or not - time with people was half the draw of RPGs for me, but I guess it beats being a /nogames/ (well I've got board games club, but I asked and they are not interested in Cyberpunk - or indeed any other RPG beyond 5e. FML.)
>>
>>87476598
The module works very well imo. It accounts for everything you need, including automatically measuring ranged DV, debuffing rolls appropriately, keeping ammo counts, etc. So as GM your only real worry if the occasional hiccup, and you can focus wholly on storytelling.

I have to use it because my /tg/ group is in America and I'm in the UK. We can't meet up.
>>
>>87476664
Ah. Well, nice to meet another Brit anyway. I did look at VTT briefly a few years ago (Roll 20, I think it was called) but couldn't find a group that met at a decent time. Honestly... GMT -8, there's no way I'm staying up until 6am gaming as I work 9 to 5!

I wonder how British cyberpunk differs from American cyberpunk. Trying to remember if we have any British authors in the canon.
>>
I'm interested in running a cyberpunk game, but I am not so concerned with writing a big narrative. Is 2020 well built for a more simulation sort of experience?
Coming from OSR systems, but want to design a new sort of setting
>>
>>87476764
That's how I run Cyberpunk 2020, to be honest. Almost "episodic", with the big picture adventures happening around the characters' daily lives.

The key to that kinda game is making the players give a shit about their characters and their stuff. Make them rent a home, pay rent, keep their gear in working order. Money is everything in Cyberpunk, and it's a natural motivator to go out and pull off criminal capers or otherwise take high risk jobs.
>>
>>87476804
That's interesting, OSR roleplaying motivations are pretty similar so I think it should be a natural style to practice.
I guess dungeons are still possible in cyberpunk, just a very different set. Trying to imagine what the players will actually do that I'm need to make materials for.
>>
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>>87476739
To me it's also just appealing to be able to make maps, make them look (relatively) good, and be able to set the mood visually. Having a record of everything said allows me to double-check anything I might want to add so it doesn't conflict with the story and decisions players have made in the past.

I was gonna suggest John Wagner but he's American born lol.
>>
>>87476983
Ooh, that actually looks kind of nifty. And journal functionality? Guess it saves taking notes and then having to write up a file of (say) how you've described a given character that might crop up again, and their interactions with the PCs. Or at any rate easier than doing it old-school style (pen and paper)

John Wagner... think I've read some of his Dredd strips.

>>87476804
That is exactly my dream campaign. Kind of a living, breathing Night City. PCs you can invest in, their families, their contacts. You never know when that street kid you saved from getting sliced up by back-street organleggers is going to turn up as a Maelstrom ganger or a BD vendor or something...

Heh. Living Night City. That'd be a heck of a thing, multi-group campaign setting. One party ticks off Militech, next thing you know everyone else has to contend with Militech doubling the security on their facilities (and at least one of them is planning a run). Probably won't ever happen but an anon can dream.
>>
>>87476983
>Crpg
>Trpg
Choose wisely
>>
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What's the name of your rocker boy band?
>>
>>87475860
Meanwhile I am a member of a group that played Red for about a year and after a break we are now coming back around to season 2 of a much anticipated campaign that has been some of the best roleplaying I've been a part of.
>>
>>87477053
I can only work on the campaign milieu in that way. Every time I have tried to build a world around a railroad or metanarrative, I lose what I like about rpgs. A world that has enough consistency that you care about your actions in it. Adventure only feels good if you feel like you need to do it.
>>
>>87477125
Based games-haver. A rare sight on /tg/.

How does RED play? I have it sitting on my shelf somewhere, but it seems to miss some of the stuff I love about 2020. How easy is it to die, and did I just miss the part on how cyberlimbs are treated differently or are they just not?
>>
>>87477125
Tell us about the story and characters, sound interesting.
>>
>>87477156
Red is a blast. Our GM is comfortable with the rules and has really gotten his stride in managing the game. Haven't done a ton of hacker space time, but it's coming in season 2. One thing I'll say is that it runs fine out of the book, but we heavily houserule things to spice it up.
The core book doesn't have nearly enough purchasing/upgrade items so we tend to homebrew interesting and exotic things into the game. Our GM trained in martial arts, so he overhauled that system to be much more rewarding.

Game play is not too complicated, and so far very complex encounters have been managed very gracefully -- though I'll lend and credit to that smoothness to our GM. He's passionate about Cyber Punk and has his design for the campaign properly trained on "take it to the extreme," just like Pondsmith.
>>
>>87477312
different anon, anything specific from how he overhauled martial arts?
>>
>>87477312
>The core book doesn't have nearly enough purchasing/upgrade items
This is the biggest problem desu. Chipware especially got eviscerated.
>>
>>87477383
*Cough*
Black Chrome
*Cough*
This March
*Cough*
>Dies of covid
>>
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>>87477479
>This March
But I want it now!
>>
Cyberpunk inspired me to write porn
>>
>>87477762
Post it.
>>
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>>87478095
https://ehsex (dot) blogspot.com/2023/01/neon-taiga-full.html
>>
>>87478176
Based.
>>
>>87477124
Konichiwa
We are Idol band run by Tygers.
But hey, I did manage to end up on international news after threating to blow up Michiko Arasaka at Danger Gal gala. Sad thing I can't ride this clout because both DG and NCDP would end my ass.
>>
>>87477575
You got gunmass this Christmass and fun drugs today.
>>
>>87471879
To the anons in the other thread who gave me advice on which version to run, thank you. Decided on Red after reading/watching some reviews, reading both core books, and doing a quick "test" of how combat goes solo.

Going to need to make some houserules to make the ruleset for combat a bit more comprehensive but since it sounds easier than trying to "fix" netrunning in 2020 that's fine.
>>
>>87478325
But I want new chipware.
>>
>>87477479
It needs to be really fucking good desu. I want to be able to ignore the core book item lists and just use it instead as a much more comprehensive alternative.
>>
>>87478516
Got you senpai
>>>Hormone regulator chip<<<
Install N/A
>Chipware. When installed in chipware socket, user gain +1 COOL, and +1 WILL stat. Such stat increase does not provide additional HP.
Requires chipware socket and biomonitor.
>500eb (Expensive)
>7 (2d6) Humanity loss
>>
>>87478516
>>>Multicultural boost chip<<<
Install: N/A
>Chipware. When installed in chipware socket, user gains generic knowledge on most of European cultures. Chip provides complementary skill +1 in basic social situations on GM discretion.
Requires chipware socket.
>100eb (Premium)
>3 (1d6) Humanity loss
>>
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>>87477365
It's my bud's build, I'll tell him about the thread and see if he wants to share his work. Not sure what exactly is different about it but here's the rundown:

>The more you rank in a given martial art style the more perks you unlock
>When you get to higher ranks you can earn a signature move for that style, or shared specials available to all of them
>Damage adjustments based on half your martial arts skill, applied to attacks w/ unarmed or specific weapons

I think that's basically it. The secret is in the sauce, and the guy just wanted it to be a more robust and rewarding option. My character took Aikido, which GM has a lot of respect for.

>>87477239
Might come back and do a story time. Stay tuned. Here's a teaser:

I'm playing a hotshot nomad and going full tilt into the role of Wheelman. My edgerunner survived a corporate strike that devastated his family and left him scrambling to find the remaining members. He climbs into the flagship ride of his clan and makes a break for Night city, the location of a few of his blood relatives and the last of the members to his clan. Little did Hot-Wheels know that the very company that laid a hit out on his kin was also unlawfully imprisoning vagrants outside of the city to toss them into cages at remote testing facilities. Of course he gets himself picked up, the famous flagship impounded; this leaves him with no choice but to plan an escape with four other would be edgerunners. That was the start of our adventure and it took us into so many exciting twists and turns in the corporate powerstruggle between the OC Corp and Arasaka. Our crew would eventually swear themselves to doing everything they could to exposing this dreadful company's dirty laundry to the rest of the world, and warn them of an impending biological plot to take over the world.

One interesting thing my GM made me do was go for many episodes without access to my moto rank vehicle, but in so doing allowed me to completely trick it out.
>>
>>87479099
I recognise this one from Euro homebrew an anon shared.
Now write me Stepford Wife Behavioural chip.
>>
>>87477479
I'm prepping a game right now. I was actually gonna start it in two weeks, but I guess I'll just delay it until Black Chrome comes out.
>>
>>87473510
sexo ninja
>>
>>87474549
If he's taking volunteers for an Adam Smasher, I'm putting my name down.
>>
>>87477124
Tainted Steel
>>
>>87480647
>martial arts homebrew
If your friend is inclined to write it up and is happy for it to go online, he may well become an internet legend. I'm not (yet) well up on the equivalent RAW in Red, but I like the sound of your summary and I hope he appreciates the interest from a bunch of anons.

>>87482395
Heard out of context, "an Adam Smasher" sounds like the sort of thing mentioned in the same breath as "donkey punch".

Got to say though... it's a powerful name. Ever noticed how some of RTG's really noteworthy characters sound like pulp-era heroes and villains? Adam Smasher, Johnny Silverhand, Spider Murphy... they could all be straight out of Batman's early rogue's gallery or a Doc Savage novel.

(And my mental shorthand of Smasher is that he's kind of the anti-Robocop. But that's just me.)
>>
I'm tempted to save up my ed for black chrome in my current game
>>
>>87475860
Timezone? I know of a group of NA players looking for more members.
>>
>>87476739
>British cyberpunk
2000ad?
>>
>>87483668
It's got elements, I'll give you that. Very out of date on 2000AD, but used to absolutely love Dredd back in the day. Of course he's got his own RPG, and one very good movie (and one bloomin' awful one - who thought that Stallone as lead and Versace uniform were a good idea?)
>>
>>87471879
>How would you interest your group in Cyberpunk, if they've never heard of the genre before and have no knowledge besides media coverage of CP2077's launch?
Cyberpunk, dark future, high tech dystopian civilization fiction has been around a long time. It's not hard to just mention some of the movies and say that the game is set in a similar world.
As far as attracting people to play it, I just pull out the CP 2020 core book and let people look at it. I've gotten non-gamers to try it out like that.
>>
>>87474044
>if you look at Gibson or Bethke, some of their ideas of the net are badly dated.
No, they were wrong, not "now dated." Gibson is the clearest example of how Cyberpunk authors deviated from reality because he's been so open and honest about it. He has acknowledged that he knows very little about computers and how they network. All of the core elements of networking and security that we use today existed when Neuromancer was written. If he'd researched it, he could have gotten it a lot closer.
That said, I am not criticizing him for that. He was writing a piece of fiction that was exploring the social impact of computers and the slowly emerging internet, not the technical development of them. That part he got right, too close for my comfort.
>>
>>87476764
I though that's how everyone DID run it. The fixer brings a job, we go out and do said job, get paid for said job, deal with the fallout of where we fucked up, rinse and repeat. There's always the possibility of a metaplot in the background that the GM is running and some jobs themselves could be big enough or complex enough to take months of playing to complete.
>>
>>87484584
>Just pull out the CP 2020 core book and let people look at it

Man, to this day, no one does rulebooks and splats like RTG back then. The cheesy yet cool art, the down to Earth and relaxed explanation of the rules, the endless lists of cool shit to outfit your character with. It's enough to make anyone want to play.
>>
>>87485125
OTOH, CP RED feels like what Apple would make if they were making Cyberpunk. It's pretty but a little too slick.
>>
>>87484729
I admit I've not looked too deeply at the actual tech side of Gibson's writing - just more things that feel wrong, like the small amount of RAM one of his characters intends to fence for big money, or the primitive wireframes and polygons of cyberspace. If I was an actual techie, maybe I'd have thought more deeply about that.

Not that those things in any way, shape or form detract from the quality of the writing, but they do catch the eye a bit. Totally agree with you that cyberpunk is more about the social impacts of technology and of big business, and in some cases (Mona Lisa Overdrive, Idoru) touches on what it means to be human.

>>87485487
You've got to admit, Jony Ive would design pretty slick-looking cyberware. Dunno if I'd trust Apple though - built-in obsolescence, and you pay through the nose for the name and the UX.
>>
>>87486188
>Not that those things in any way, shape or form detract from the quality of the writing, but they do catch the eye a bit.
Yeah... That's the problem with a lot of scifi for me. The more I'm educated in the real science and tech of things the less the fiction stands up. It's a real treat for me when I come across solid fact supported fiction.
>>
>>87486349
I'm not so stringent as long as they don't get into sheer fantasy or "it just does". Expanse-style handwavium is OK, just because they do try to have at least some hard science operating.

That said, bad writing - "characters do this just because they do" - kills it for me more than bad science.
>>
>>87482114
https://montreal.dataterm.ca/netshop_product/3046/doll-chip/
French already done it better than me.
>>
>>87486516
>That said, bad writing - "characters do this just because they do" - kills it for me more than bad science.
Absolutely. To bring it full circle, that one of the reasons that Gibson's work is good. He does a good job of using his characters to explore his theme while keeping them consistent and true to their nature.
>>
>>87476983
What module is that for the dialogue pop ups?
>>
I want to run a Cyberpunk game. Is RED a good game for a group of players who are mostly familiar with DnD?
>>
>>87486787
Theatre Inserts. I'll do you a favour and say that if you hate the default text for characters (I do), just go into the module and swap the fonts.
>>
>>87487401
*the module's app folder
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>>87487049
It's different kind of game mechanically, but not that much. RED is much easier to learn than 2020 at least, so it should be fine.
>>
>>87487526
I played Cyberpunk 2020 when I was 13 or 14. I guess a grown adult with a semi-working brain should be able to master this system.
>>
>>87487049
The players don't need to know the system. All they need to know is how to perform a skill check, what their special ability does, know what's an initiative roll, know how to use the health monitor (KO and Mortal checks), and what effect their cyberware has. If there's a netrunner he needs to know the Menu and what effects his programs have. That's enough. Heck, I even ran games at conventions where people didn't even knew all this and it went fine.
>>
My Shadowrun to 2020 project has just stalled around Magic, Shadowrun really has too many rolls involved.
>>
>>87488616
SR has a great setting, I've NEVER liked the mechanics.
>>
>>87488632
No one has, it's one of the biggest gripes from SR players. Personally, I adapted the system to WEG D6 and everyone loved it. (To head off any requests for my conversion, I used SW D6 and just left out the parts I didn't want to use. I then just renamed any gear or PC options to be in line with the SR books I had and it worked.)
>>
>>87488743
I have seen a Shadowrun WEG conversion online but nowadays it’s by a web archive link. I’ll dig it up after work if people want it.
>>
>>87488803
All of the SW D6 is available at http://www.d6holocron.com/. They have rules for almost every activity you'd do in SR except net running. (There is a fan made hacking book though.) Aside from that, IDK what "conversion" you'd really have to do beside dropping ships and reflavoring things.
>>
>>87487049
I don't think they will struggle.
DnD: Roll 1d20 add stat and magic items to total
CPR: Roll 1d10 add stat, skill and some items to total
Thing to watch for is the character build system you use. If you let player use point buy, just keep on eye on players that push reflexes or dexterity to 10 because those (mainly reflexes) have been the god stat in RTS games.
>>
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What do you think of the theory that Angel from the Black Dog story is actually Alt (another construct piece that managed to hide and clone herself a body) and that she acquired Johnny's body to clone him and put a construct into his new body?

I wonder if construct Alt and Johnny are out there in their cloned bodies, and what would happen if they ran into the Johnny that was given V's body, with his memories altered and some life changing experiences under his belt. A construct based only on the old Johnny and being the way he was at the moment of his death and perhaps happy with Alt, and a construct that was fed false memories and then ate a lot of humble pie and lost a friend.
>>
>>87489779
>Somehow, Palpatine has returned.
ftfy, anon

This thread is making me nostalgic, but also remorseful. I wish I'd been a more selective game buyer, instead of filling shelves with anything and everything that caught my eye. And I wish I'd kept my Cyberpunk books.

I really, really want to dive back into that world. Anyone know a good way to find a group, virtual or otherwise, that might be looking for a rusty old grog who wants his glory days back?
>>
>>87490028
i know of a NA group looking for an additional retard to a RED game, if your grognard bones do not ache at the thought of a somewhat simplified system in the same universe
>>
>>87490120
Honestly? Red ain't 2020 - but even a simplified game is better than no game.

Really depends on what time they play. Way back in the days of roleplaying over IRC I joined a group that played on PST and it wound up playing havoc with my sleep (and making me struggle with timekeeping at work). I'm on GMT, so GMT or CET works best - but I'm not going to say an outright no.

Just been looking at Roll 20 again (first time in a few years) and I'm shocked that the only ones at a reasonable hour are "pay to play"; the rest all start at deeply antisocial times between 1am and 4am. What's with that? No idea where else to look...
>>
>>87490214
Jump in, see how it goes.
https://discord.gg/kmq6feWw
>>
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>Look up what's country like in this setting
>All corps left due to high taxes
>>
>>87490496
>what's country like
what's my country like*
I should go to sleep
>>
>>87489779
Female V or male V?
>>
>>87489450
You cannot buy past 8 in character gen for RED. Still the book does suggest you keep an eye on character gen; though it's suggestion is more 'look to how your players make their characters to gauge their familiarity, and then tailor difficulty to that. 8 REF 8 DEX is simultaneously great, but also a bit of a rookie trap (dodging won't always make TNs higher, and can end up making you take hits that would miss; it is also impaired by critical injuries and wound state, as well as critical failures).

If your players are fast learners or experienced, consider looking at the Hardened Mooks/Lieutenants/Minibosses PDFs on RTG's website to keep them from popping off too hard.
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>>87490470
Thanks anon, I'll check it out.

>>87490557
Either way it's going to be weird. The cognitive dissonance of two copies of the same person, at different points in their lives. But it'd be even weirder if the clone was hitting on female V before realising who the personality is.

(it is after midnight and I am trawling eBay for reasonably priced rulebooks. Send help. And coffee.)
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>>87490496
>Go to check on the homeland
>They actually lowballed how fucked the Yugoslav would be

Just casually reading through the history, NATO is out of the picture and the EU (EEC) is completely bitchmade, if this had actually happened, oh man. That would've been some next level internecine chaos. Hmm. Would it be internecine or sectarian? I guess both.
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>>87489779
I actually had a theory before the game came out that V was actually two people (probably siblings, the male and female Vs) who were both operating simultaneously. Because the cyber-eyes made recording faces impossible, it would've been a fun direction to go, different characters would assume that they're talking about the same V, they always used "they" anyway probably to save on voice line costs.

Of course it became obvious that I had completely misread the situation as soon as I was playing it, but it's what I would've done.
>>
I really thought there would be mods to let Valerie finger herself in her apartment by now.
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>>87489779
I'm sick of Max Mike's retard Doctor Manhattan netcummer being jerked off in every fucking book. Get rid of the cunt already, you dozy bastard. The two worked alright for Never Fade Away as an example of generic teencringe cyberlovers but they're just fucking preposterous going forward.
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How're you guys liking our cyberpunk reality?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1617445866201141248
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>>87491200
>Because the cyber-eyes made recording faces impossible
Despite which, it never comes up again, and people still manage to identify V as the person they're looking for and track them down.

>>87491369
In one of the endings, you get to watch V fingering her guitar. Wonder how her technique compares to Johnny's?

>>87494650
Well it looks significantly nicer than the Tesla Cybertruck, but I don't even want to know how much filament he used to 3D print that body kit - or where he got a printer big enough.
>>
I’ve been working on a modern cyberpunk setting based in Australia (specially NSW for now) for a long time. I’m finally beginning to turn the notes into a setting bible and then a sourcebook.
Would you fags be interested in that kind of thing? I’m trying to make a setting that is as unpalatable to an Aussie as traditional cyberpunk was to an American
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>>87494776
Could be fun. What are we talking about - nomad families roaming the Great Sandy Desert on walkabout, replicant koalas (because the last one died decades ago), a properly ocker boostergang with venomous heel-spikes a la the platypus, and corporations engaging in a Tank Girl-esque water war? And all the while, Paul Hogan beaming down from the ads, endorsing Foster's Lager while chucking another shrimp on the barbie? Visions of Dreamtime in cyberspace. And heck, maybe in 2077 they're still watching Neighbours.

(Actually, a Crocodile Dundee posergang would be pretty fun. Or something based on Barry Humphries. Imagine getting curb-stomped by a hulking guy with a purple rinse, cat-eye glasses, and a bunch of gladioli in one hand who keeps calling you "possum".)
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>>87494776
Do you have cyberdropbears.
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>>87494954
More like Australia is one of the only nations to whether a series of ecological, pathogenic and military crises over several decades and has turned into an odd combination of nationalist, closed and very controlled society and playground for the international hyperwealthy, with baggage of decades of refugee crises and barely held in check climate change. It also features a lot more “genetic modification” stuff, kinda in the vein of eclipse phase but there’s also extinct megafauna brought back.

Oh, and of course Rupert Murdoch is still alive.
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>>87495016
>More like Australia is one of the only nations to whether a series of ecological, pathogenic and military crises over several decades
I find it absolutely bizarre that this first element (only this one, though) is shared with the Australian mega-city from Metalhead, a Japanese setting from the early 90s. Is Australia enduring while the rest of the planet goes down the shitter a common idea or something?
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>>87495086
For me it appealed for three reasons
>australia has historic tight customs controls and they only tightened during Covid. It pays off
>Australians panic about refugees on both ends of the spectrum and pioneer…. Unique ways of dealing with the problem
>Australians would hate becoming internationally Important more than almost anything else. This is the big one for me
Though now I am going to look up metalhead. Cheers anon
>>
>>87495009
>cyberdropbears
That's too perfect.

>>87495016
>Rupert Murdoch
Of course he is. Does he move bodies using Arasaka relic tech, or is he just immortal due to being a FBC?

>>87495086
I guess Australia is quite an isolated country anyway, with overall low population density. If you control entry and exit, an you have tight biosecurity at points of entry (as Australia and NZ do at present) - well, that's two out of three. crises they can already deal with.
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>>87495102
Checking, I find I wasn't quite right. Metalhead's Aus government still fell apart, but it managed to hold on a lot longer than pretty much every other country (mostly by bunkering down and absolutely refusing to help anybody else).
>now I am going to look up metalhead
I dunno how easy it is to find the translation, so here: Mega
/folder/N0pVFKrD#jK6lBw0Al8OW1whLxiSGTQ
The Australia stuff is in the book Virtual City, starting p40. It might come off as a bit of a creator's pet city at times, the major threats in the area are poachers and Perth selling all its resources to the Japs, rather than the wars, comically hostile weather, and shitty living conditions that plague all the rest of them.
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>>87495144
Thanks anon, but I think you linked the wrong mega?
>>
Are vuvuzelas cyberpunk, or just annoying?
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>>87495175
I did, yes.
/folder/Zp5kyYCR#zfKbGu272A7KDemW2Wu0sg
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>>87495219
Nice
You are God’s gift to autists, anon
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>>87495016
>and has turned into an odd combination of nationalist, closed and very controlled society and playground for the international hyperwealthy, with baggage of decades of refugee crises and barely held in check climate change
Ah so you're going for realism
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>>87495250
>You are God’s gift to autists
no autism is involved with this project, haha
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>>87495278
Yep. We’re already headed toward a cashless society.
Imagine if you had no (or basically no) option to buy anything but by card. Now imagine that in the interest of national health and security travel was restricted. Imagine needing to use your opal card (linked to an account) to not just ride a bus but to, say, enter a Westfield. Get into certain neighbourhoods. Go to the beach.
Imagine if you were automatically denied access to, say, the ferry to Manly because your opal card dinged you as a criminal. Or just povo. Imagine if it was all tracked, everywhere you went. Imagine a hundred Christmas islands on one hand and a hundred Star Casinos on the other.

The least realistic thing about the setting, as I have it sketched out, is that tens of thousands of American refugees brought guns into the country. But you can’t have a game like this with 0 guns
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>>87495330
Wew, yeah I went through customs in Oz once, I thought the TSA took their job seriously.
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>>87495391
Kek Aussie customs officials are something else.
They must recruit the only cunts in the country who take themselves seriously
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>>87495330
>Now imagine that in the interest of national health and security travel was restricted. Imagine needing to use your opal card (linked to an account) to not just ride a bus but to, say, enter a Westfield. Get into certain neighbourhoods. Go to the beach.
Haha yeah imagine
>The least realistic thing about the setting, as I have it sketched out, is that tens of thousands of American refugees brought guns into the country. But you can’t have a game like this with 0 guns
Maybe make them all 3d printed or something, or if you're having military crises they can be left overs from the caches and black market corpo guns
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>>87495429
The tl;dr of guns is that a lot of American military and their families were in Australia for the War. Australia also had to expand its armed forces and even formed a TDF of local pseudo-militias with hand-me-down AUGs etc. and then America collapsed and during the collapse some of that military did a bit of people smuggling and those people brought guns. And the militia guns weren’t all kept track of properly. And other refugees have snuck in since.

But I think I will add a bunch of 3D printed guns. Adds a lot of flavor and mechanics options to acquiring guns
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>>87495105
>I guess Australia is quite an isolated country anyway, with overall low population density.
We also have a staggering amount of natural resources and primary industries - it's why we can escape most global financial crisis relatively unscathed. We go iron ore, we got gas, we got gold and diamonds, we got minerals, we got sand, we got sun, we got uranium, we got it all (except a lot of fresh water...).
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>>87491170
Frankly surprised the Greeks took the Albanians side in the CP2020 timeline of events.
>That would've been some next level internecine chaos. Hmm. Would it be internecine or sectarian? I guess both.
Definitely both.
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>>87495330
>cashless society
I see this problem in my job all the time. I need to make payments to people; the legal framework that applies says I can only pay to an account held at an institution that has a banking licence; but so many people now are rejected by banks due to bankruptcy, poor credit scores, or having markers on their record for fraud.

It's a pretty awful way of excluding people from society, and also pretty cyberpunk. Gibson's Sprawl trilogy had something similar, but it was about not having a state-issued identity number.

>>87495443
>Adds a lot of flavor and mechanics options to acquiring guns
I'm thinking of pictures I've seen of jury-rigged "Saturday night specials", rusty and badly welded, that might blow up in your face...

>>87495533
Got to laugh. The UK deported all its criminals there and it looks like their descendants got the better end of the deal. If you ignore the fact that Australia has no indigenous cats, and the wildlife is all out to kill and/or eat you.

(You've also got a dirt-poor indigenous population who, reportedly, aren't treated well and have serious social issues around crime and addiction behaviours. I wonder what they do in the run-up to your cyberpunk Australia?)
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>>87495637
The situation around indigenous people is pretty complicated irl. They make Native Americans look temperate and sober, literally. It is a very, very sad state of affairs where extreme poverty, rural (and inhospitable) infrastructure, low education, few opportunities, severe substance abuse, and genuine discrimination has lead to a situation no one sees a way out of.
But hey, maybe if we say they should have a Voice in parliament it’ll work out. Details? Nah she’ll be right mate.

In game it’s much the same, desu. It feels weird to magically Fix It and gauche to make it much worse.
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>>87495637
>Got to laugh. The UK deported all its criminals there and it looks like their descendants got the better end of the deal.
Mostly. Our government is still relatively totalitarian for a democracy - we don't have any enshrined rights, just privileges which can be taken away with the snap of a finger should the government of the day decide it (e.g. the 1990sGun-Ban, the 1910-1960s Stolen Generation policy of forcible removal of indigenous children, the Covid-era vaccine mandates/lockdowns/passports etc).

>If you ignore the fact that Australia has no indigenous cats, and the wildlife is all out to kill and/or eat you.
It's not so bad - mostly just stuff like spiders, snakes, jellyfish, sharks, and crocs to be worried about. All the land mammals aren't predators to humans.

>(You've also got a dirt-poor indigenous population who, reportedly, aren't treated well and have serious social issues around crime and addiction behaviours. I wonder what they do in the run-up to your cyberpunk Australia?)
Honestly, who knows? They've been pretty much fucked since day 1, and no amount of government intervention and tax-dollars has solved any presiding issue facing the aboriginals. I'm not certain a techno-dystopian future would even include them. You could go all "return to monke", but that just buys into some nativist tropes which would come off as trite. Many still live in remote communities (by choice) and have little to no access to education, health, technology etc.
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>>87495714
>It feels weird to magically Fix It and gauche to make it much worse.
100% This. No matter what you write it'll come off as offensive or tropey or trite to someone.
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>>87495880
>All the land mammals aren't predators to humans.
I've just had the weirdest idea for a cyberpunk setting. One of the noteworthy local foodstuffs for the elites is platypus custard. They are farmed for their eggs and milk, which are then used to make this very expensive dessert - or variations upon (creme brulee, or perhaps omelettes?)

>>87495891
Totally agree. A realistic representation is good, though, and I do wonder if there have been some small changes or significant protests? You can imagine corp clashes where they're living on top of mineral rights, for example.
>>
Test
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>>87495880
>All the land mammals aren't predators to humans.
Two-thumbed paws typed this post.
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>>87496373
... sorry anon, but it's painfully obvious that you are just 3 koalas in a trenchcoat.
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>>87494650
Very gay compared to fiction, aesthetics all over the place
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>>87494650
Weres my cool cyber arms. I want cyborg stuff if we are getting a cyberpunk dystopia
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>>87494650
>>87499133
>tfw got every negative without even the bonus of cool cyberware or VR hacking
The future turned out so gay and lame.
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>>87499949
>VR hacking
Eh, I can live without VR hacking. It'd basically be like Pokemon, but with neon coloured wireframes. Now, if it was more like the VR training missions in Metal Gear Solid...
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>>87499949
>>87499133
Somehow, I don't think people will be lining up to get their limbs removed for these.
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>>87500012
Can't fit a grenade or assault rifle in one of these, no good.
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>>87500012
There's also smart lenses. See better, zoomable vision, record videos, get info, etc.
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>>87500012
Putting lack of Mantis Blade aside, this is really impressive.
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>>87501085
Yeah as sad as I am I can't put guns in my arms the fact this is available for disarmed people is amazing. We really take our hands for granted I can't imagine living without them
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>>87501453
Not to mention that the casing in the top photo simply looks cool. Still not as fashionable as cyberpunk implants, but we're getting there.
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>>87496124
>I've just had the weirdest idea for a cyberpunk setting. One of the noteworthy local foodstuffs for the elites is platypus custard. They are farmed for their eggs and milk, which are then used to make this very expensive dessert - or variations upon (creme brulee, or perhaps omelettes?)
Delightful. A lot of Australian fauna isn't in the Anglo-Saxon diet, but the Aboriginals traditionally have eaten anything they can get their hands on (colloquially known as "bush-tucker"). There's definitely room for some kind of elite gastronomy focused on "Native" foods, and since in Cyberpunk it's normal to make the elites very snobbery-gauche you could run pretty hard with the concept.

>Totally agree. A realistic representation is good, though, and I do wonder if there have been some small changes or significant protests? You can imagine corp clashes where they're living on top of mineral rights, for example.
Those clashes do exist already, so yeah can totally build on that. Not unlike the Canadian Aboriginals or the American Indians there's a lot of land rights/title issues when it comes to private or capital projects on Traditional Land. One of the political concepts currently under hot debate in Aus is the Voice to Parliament. Effectively, the Left of Australian politics want to enshrine an Aboriginal advisory body into our constitution so that any legislation which may adversely effect Aboriginals can be specifically spoken to.
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>>87496373
>Two-thumbed paws typed this post.
On the internet, no one knows you're a marsupial.
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>>87502403
Yeah we are slowly getting to the actually cool cyberpunk future not this lame one we are in now. Cant wait to quit my job to take on merc jobs and die at the age of 25
At least people are getting fun with prosthesis
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>>87502465
>colloquially known as "bush-tucker"
"Tonight, on I'm an Edgerunner - Get Me Out Of Here!..."
I'm pretty sure Morgan Blackhand would make you eat the witchetty grubs and take the meals for camp anyway. Very much doubt the Aboriginal community wants to make a creme brulee, even before you bring the platypus in.

At the risk of sounding absolutely crass, I've heard that one of the biggest substance abuse problems in the Aboriginal community outside of alcohol is petrol. If there's any truth in that, I wonder if they'd switch to CHOOH in the dark future.
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>>87502942
Ah yes, the anus snake, for cleaning your ass out
>>
>>87502465
Yeah and the thing about the voice is that it’s not at all clear what it would do or what powers it would have - meaning it would either be completely toothless or have enough power to destabilise parliament. It’ll probably be a combination of worthless tokenism and corruption.
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>>87503542
I'm not sure what the point would even be. I'm assuming that the Australian government, like most first-world democracies, holds public consultations about its policy proposals before implementing them and carries out equality impact assessments.

Is there something stopping Aboriginal residents and interest groups from downloading the consultation document and submitting a response like any other person or organisation is able to? It sounds like they just need to be treated as stakeholders by the civil service, rather than given a dedicated quango.

(Sorry... ex-civil servant digression into /pol/ territory)

>>87502942
That arm looks... spinal. Probably handy for unblocking a drain, or possibly as some kind of flail-like weapon. (Actually, it looks tentacle-like too; is that getting into anime territory?)

Some more random thoughts about Cyberpunk Australia and possible cultural references that could be slipped in as light nods to provide flavour rather than substance: the rural highway patrolmen who wear black leather and drive souped-up Ford Falcons. A rockerboy band called Dingoes Ate My Baby, who become infamous for staging a guerilla gig atop Uluru. Botany Bay as a Westworld-esque LARP, where the rich and famous can spend a week slumming it as 18th century convicts - albeit with clean water, decent food, and a distinct lack of diseases (including social ones). Trauma Team as the Flying Doctors. Amongst the megacorps are the Irwin Foundation, a family-run ecological preservation charity, and the Lassiter Corporation, headed by the Robinson dynasty and providing various services (including hotels, Home James limousines, and a chain of coffee shops called Harold's).

(But don't mind me, this is just my brain unwinding... it's what I'd throw in, but ignore the lot if you want. Just what I remember of Australia from the media - never visited, though three of my cousins have emigrated out there.)
>>
>>87503842
There’s a bit of disenfranchisement as a result of the way the NT is set up. I think a fair way to frame the argument is that extra representation is necessary to correct the current marginalisation
I do think someone would have a hard time arguing that aboriginal sovereignty doesn’t take a backseat to mineral exploitation. I think someone would have a harder time arguing that the conditions of most aboriginal communities is anything but dire.
Again, though - no one has a plan for what the Voice would do, exactly, nor does anyone have a plan for how to “resolve” the conditions of aboriginals. I think it’s a token gesture that will backfire on labor when the left perceives it as worthless and the right sees it as a dangerous overreach
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>>87503970
>I think it’s a token gesture that will backfire
... when the group it is intended to represent doesn't engage with it, or engages with no real unity of view from the different areas feeding in, and so the Voice has to decide what representations to make and is accused of being a "white man knows best" colonial throwback. Yeah, this could get messy.
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>>87504002
https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/dec/05/what-is-the-indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-australia-how-would-it-work-why-should-we-have-it-explainer
This is the best 101 summary imo and it includes more relevant links
I think the best comparison is a Senate or House advisory committee if that committee chose its members completely independently from the rest of the legislative branch.
I think there’s good odds of it becoming reality.
>>
>>87495429
I think I've needed to use my jab certificate once when I went into the city a year and a half ago to see a comedy show. Do they still require you to show that shit?
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>>87495637
>You've also got a dirt-poor indigenous population who, reportedly, aren't treated well and have serious social issues around crime and addiction behaviours.
I say this without any bigotry or malice but you're making a mistake by assuming they're just a different colour. They're not. The vast majority are profoundly mentally disabled by Western standards and the only people who will disagree are coastal leftists who have never lived near them.
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>>87505461
>the only people who will disagree are coastal leftists who have never lived near them.

I live in rural victoria and most abbos I encounter are normal people and pretty similar to white trash derros. Never met a full on outback abbo tho.
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>>87505461
>The vast majority are profoundly mentally disabled by Western standards and the only people who will disagree are coastal leftists who have never lived near them.
Computer illiteracy isn't a disability anon, it's the norm. You didn't evolve to use computers.
>>
>>87495330
>>87495429
>>87495443

Bikies apparently make a lot of Luty SMGs. They were quite a problem for a while.
>>
>>87503842
>A rockerboy band called Dingoes Ate My Baby
Use TISM instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENnAa7rqtBM
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>>87503123
>Petrol
Oh man, like you wouldn't believe. Shell and BP down here have had to actually work on things to make their fuel undesirable to sniff, it's much of a problem here.
>>
>>87503842
>>87503970
>>87504002
Even the Aboriginal Green Party senator Thorpe described The Voice as tokenistic - she said if you want real power, get elected. Even though I'm polar opposite to a Greenie, she's right about this.
>>
>>87503123
>t the risk of sounding absolutely crass, I've heard that one of the biggest substance abuse problems in the Aboriginal community outside of alcohol is petrol. If there's any truth in that, I wonder if they'd switch to CHOOH in the dark future.

Yeah huffing thinners/paint/fuel/glue is an issue in a lot of remote and marginalized communities. Is CHOOH similar enough to diesel or petrol to give you that oxygen-deprivation head high?
>>
>>87503842
>Some more random thoughts about Cyberpunk Australia and possible cultural references that could be slipped in as light nods to provide flavour rather than substance: the rural highway patrolmen who wear black leather and drive souped-up Ford Falcons. A rockerboy band called Dingoes Ate My Baby, who become infamous for staging a guerilla gig atop Uluru. Botany Bay as a Westworld-esque LARP, where the rich and famous can spend a week slumming it as 18th century convicts - albeit with clean water, decent food, and a distinct lack of diseases (including social ones). Trauma Team as the Flying Doctors. Amongst the megacorps are the Irwin Foundation, a family-run ecological preservation charity, and the Lassiter Corporation, headed by the Robinson dynasty and providing various services (including hotels, Home James limousines, and a chain of coffee shops called Harold's).
These are all great and on-point for Aussie-Cyberpunk. I think if you didn't lean into the Mad-Max elements it'd be a missed opportunity.

I think it's easy to rationalize that a warming/destabilized climate could flood the prosperous coastal cities pushing everyone inland to the rural-deserts. People have to cluster around de-salination plants for water, nuclear plants for power (or super-massive solar arrays) etc.

We also have these already-existing MegaCorps like Rio Tinto and BHP - mining and resources groups which are mega-wealthy and constantly embroiled in controversy.
>>
>>87505352
Most if not all covid-era restrictions are done now. It was a horrible, anti-human time and I'm glad it's behind us, but I'm not glad that none of the politicians or experts involved wont see the noose any time soon.
>>
>>87505461
A life of low-education, broken homes, rampart drug abuse, and inter-family rape will do that to ya. Bloody sad state of affairs.
>>
>>87505579
>I live in rural victoria and most abbos I encounter are normal people and pretty similar to white trash derros. Never met a full on outback abbo tho
Depends. I met a fair few rural Aboriginals and they're normal if simple people. Clever bushmen who can and do live off the land. They cant use a computer but they dont care nor really want to. Issue arises when the younger generation aren't able to get away from the remote communities and are thus trapped in the cycle.
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>>87506354
Anon, we're discussing Australian politics in a cyberpunk-themed thread in the traditional games section of a Mongolian basket-weaving forum. Look around you. There's nothing but distilled 'tism here.

>>87504206
>>87505461
>>87505789
>>87506910
>>87507651
>>87507668
>>87507708
>>87507699
Jeez. That is pretty rough. Who needs a cyberpunk dystopia when you've got all that? I don't know how you'd give a balanced fictional portrayal but it would make me very wary of picking an Aboriginal character background (even as a Nomad - can't imagine a computer-illiterate Netrunner - can't even imagine anyone under 60 being computer illiterate, desu) as I'm not sure I could do it well and respectfully.

>>87507686
Have a read of Paolo Bacigalupi's "The Wind-Up Girl". Cities surrounded by giant sea walls due to rising oceans, and pumps for emergencies. Also watch the Tank Girl movie - sure, it's got mutant 'roos and Lori Petty doing a reasonable job of playing a British comics icon, but it might give you some ideas on how Big Water behaves.

I can almost imagine the largely-empty centre of Australia becoming a battleground for space between the displaced, the Aboriginal settlements, the sheep farmers, the nomads, and the corps (mining, solar farms, whatever).

One of my cousins who emigrated to Australia is a mechanic. He's gone from working on cars, to working on mining vehicles the size of a house. So literally the mining is "mega"corps!
>>
>>87507686
I’ll post an actual design doc sometime
Tl;dr a lot of Australia is fucked but the cities are mostly very clean with a stable climate - maintained by giant weather control machines to make it pleasant for all the international visitors. This causes a lot of flooding and fires in other areas. Average joe Aussies barely get to enjoy this though as their travel is so tightly controlled, it’s mainly just a playground for wealthy foreigners
Agriculture is maintained by a man called King Dave who runs Royal Agriculture (think the sugar refining company but cyberpunk) who maintains a series of climate-controlled bio domes maintained by his agri barons who are largely his vat grown progeny.
The outback is a mix of crazed mad max types who raid shipping between the biodomes and the other main group in the outback, the mining fortresses which are staffed by prison and refugee labour.

For the most part the players are seeking freedom and comfort in a world which forces you to trade one for the other
>>
>>87507848
>I can almost imagine the largely-empty centre of Australia becoming a battleground for space between the displaced, the Aboriginal settlements, the sheep farmers, the nomads, and the corps (mining, solar farms, whatever).

It would be an interesting role-reversal if the Traditional Land which (at least through lip service) is owned by various Aboriginal tribes suddenly becomes hot property. A lot of conflict between the Government trying to appease the Left by respecting Aboriginal lands, and the sudden need to claim it all as Crown Land for resettlement.
>>
>>87507886
>crazed mad max types
Needs more bogans. Seriously, can you imagine a boostergang whose uniform is shorts and flip-flops, wife-beaters, and corked hats?

>For the most part the players are seeking freedom and comfort in a world which forces you to trade one for the other
This is called "do I want to have a salary or would I be happier being self-employed?" - aka the reality of living in late-stage capitalist society

>>87507992
Traditional Lands under siege campaign? That would be an interesting corp war.
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>>87507693
>It was a horrible, anti-human time and I'm glad it's behind us, but I'm not glad that none of the politicians or experts involved wont see the noose any time soon.

Calm down m8. It wasn't that bad, not like China and Japan where the lockdowns and rules never end.
>>
>>87507693
Honestly, I miss the lockdown. I had plenty time for myself, could play games, read books, watch movies. At the same time I saved money (no restaurants, bars, no trips...).
>>
I got into TTRPGs about 6 months ago with D&D 5e, and recently started to really get into it after my second real session. I finally feel like I figured out how the whole TTRPG thing and 5e specifically is supposed to work, and honestly I enjoy it despite some of the contrived/limiting game design. I find a lot of the enjoyment in making and optimizing characters (within reason) and seeing how it works out from a roleplay, background and synergy perspective.

With this said, is Cyberpunk RED something you guys can recommend to someone like me?
Basically all I am asking is if this 4th edition is well made and mechanically sound. I like the general idea of it, but learning another system is a bit intimidating after struggling with 5e first.
>>
>bought the first two Red books in my native language so that my players could read them
>still no word whether or not new post covid books will come out in languages other than english, waiting for a reply to a message I sent them
Fuck, I'd rather have all the books in one language.
>>
>>87509392
>(no restaurants, bars, no trips...).
You can still not spend money on those things
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>>87507693
>a horrible, anti-human time
>none of the politicians or experts involved wont see the noose
Extroverts sure are a delicate, bitchy lot aren't they
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Might as well post this here. Fed Danger Gal's logo into NovelAI.
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>>87512318
And this was it after some tweaking, and adding tags for 80's anime.
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>>87510797
Not with my waifu
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>>87510513
>New RED books in any language
Lol.
>>
So after a slightly darker than intended diversion into Australian social and political issues... I admit I'm stoked for the setting anon is writing.

>>87512318
>Danger Gal
Had to look that one up - first thing my mind went to was the old Danger Girl comics. Turns out there's a Danger Gal splat in the works, as well as a weapons one (which will include cards)/

Just a FYI from a sales tax point of view: at least where I am, books aren't subject to sales tax (VAT). However, games are. RPG books generally fall into the books category, whereas the Red jumpstart kit would be a game.

Anyone remember The Babylon Project RPG? Their first supplement was meant to come with counters, but on learning that it would get the book reclassified as a game, they were taken out... and issued to retailers as "a promotional item, one free with each purchase of this book". I doubt RTG will get round that with a deck of cards, so expect Rogue's Street Weapons to have tax on top.

>>87512474
We're getting new Red books. It ain't 2020, but like the Stones said, can't always get what you want. At least we're getting new Cyberpunk.

>>87510245
>With this said, is Cyberpunk RED something you guys can recommend to someone like me?
You're asking the wrong anon. I can't get into 5e at all. Haven't tried Red yet, but 2020 was one of my absolute favourites back in the day (along with Traveller).

>>87509392
I miss the lockdown a bit, but now it's over I've finally (after a lot of looking) managed to find myself a board games night. So I'm happier and less lonely for having done that.
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>>87513064
>books
we’re going to get one book. A book that has been in development since before RED was released… and which is only finally introducing APPS! to the game. But only five of them. And then they’re working on an edgerunners starter set to strike while the iron is very very cold, because maximum mike is extremely bad at doing things in good time.
I’m not trying to be a hater, that’s just the reality of the situation. If your first splat - which is just equipment btw - takes multiple years to come out it is not a good sign for the pace of the rest of the development cycle. He honestly needed either an equipment book or a campaign book out inside of 12 months of initial release.

I don’t give a fuck because I don’t really use supplements for anything but mining good ideas for my own stuff.
>>
>>87513173
Perfectly valid point. Lockdown and resurrecting the brand probably didn't help (which is ironic, because if you can't sell tabletop RPGs when everyone is confined to their homes, when can you?). But yeah... here we are a couple of years down the line and the material out there is sparse.

I can't decide if Red has been a runaway success, as it's sold out and gone for a reprint again, or if they are just making very small batches.

But yep - not having Edgerunners stuff in place in time, that's crazy. It'd be like Dr Who in 2005, where the kids were clamouring for toys in March and April, but the licensees were going for the Christmas market and very little was released until September.

It is hard to not want to cheerlead for Red. I mean, it's new Cyberpunk. But while I've not played it, I've started reading the PDFs, and... it doesn't feel the same. Not just mechanically, but it just doesn't excite me like 2020 did. Even though I want it to.
>>
>>87513288
Red has some good ideas and some great ideas. It also fumbles a few key pieces like gunfights and stealth - though it’s melee combat is pretty satisfying and well balanced, compared to most modern gun fighting games with swords. I also enjoy that it’s a poverty simulator that forces you to take jobs or starve, and it’s role system is really nice imo.

The setting is mostly modernised - but you can still feel the boomer behind it. Drones are barely in it and not available to PCs. It really doesn’t reflect the modern ubiquity of coding and programmers. He’s only just now adding smartphone apps. His social media in universe is based on Facebook. It doesn’t seem to even have occurred to him that a modern “rockerboy” would probably be a cyberpunk twitch streamer

Now this is my own personal rantpinion but cyberpunk, as a genre, needs to stop replaying the fears and tropes of the 80s and 90s. There’s so much anxiety in the world about corporate control, poverty, crime, gun violence, war, celebrity worship in the age of social media, technology and its effects on people and society. It seems silly to neglect those for tropes
>>
>>87499133
Wanted metal 'neath my skin
Got plastic in my blood.
>>
>>87513498
SLA Industries does those themes but is still mired in 80s Glasgow. Where all the same fears of the 80s were present but with class instead of race being the big dividing line.
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>>87508355
>Calm down m8. It wasn't that bad
Your mileage may vary, I suppose. I was this close to regicide when they brought in the mandates.
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>>87509392
>Honestly, I miss the lockdown
There's a certain novelty to a complete disengagement, but for the self-employed like me it quickly wore off when the money ran out.
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>>87513696
I quite like the idea of combining cyberpunk and Glasgow. Lovely city, must visit it again soon.

Way back in the day, about 20 years ago, I was bowled over by the cover art for SLA Industries. Never managed to find a copy, though.

>>87513498
It does sound like Red and broader cyberpunk hasn't kept up with the times. Sure, cold wars and proxy wars are still a thing, but O agree there are new and more pressing anxieties today. That said, it will always be hard for a product or genre to keep up with trends, new platforms, and changing geopolitics, so I can cut that a bit of slack.

"Modern" coding and programming was ubiquitous 40 years ago, so I'm surprised it's never really been included. Who didn't have a Commodore 64, a Spectrum or a ZX81 that they coded on in their spare time?
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>>87508355
>China and Japan where the lockdowns and rules never end
I'm not sure being just slightly better than China when it comes to trampling all over natural rights is much of a win.

Also, I'm pretty sure Japan had incredibly few restrictions? They never had mandates for the clot-shot or masks.
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>>87510801
>Extroverts sure are a delicate, bitchy lot aren't they
No, I just don't like seeing my friends and family; lose their jobs, lose their houses, be forced into a medical experiment against their will, be gaslit by the media. I do like it when the politicians/elites who advocated or forced the covid-era policies get dragged through the street, pelted by vegetables and rocks, and eventually hanged by the neck until till dead in the town square.
>>
>>87507693
I was in america during the lockdowns, which sucked because it was almost completely impossible to get into australia as a fully vaccinated CITIZEN. It’s tedious to even talk about. Only a thousand people allowed in NSW a week and no way of knowing how many had been let in until your airline told you to get fucked at the gate. Airlines selling you tickets knowing full well they would throw you off in favour of anyone first class who bought tickets later. Three fucking THOUSAND dollars you had to pay the government for the privilege of being locked in a hotel room for two weeks if you did manage to get in, and figure out your own food.
I haven’t gotten a reliable picture of what lockdowns were like here, honestly. Everyone who tells me it was a second holocaust has been a completely insane yank wannabe or dilettante and everyone who said it was no big deal is the kind of green who isn’t bothered by any government restrictions. All I know is almost twelve months after the shutdown finally ended I still see at least one in ten storefronts completely shuttered, and no one wants to talk about the last few years.
>>
>>87512474
Just got a message back from the publisher, they'll releasing the translated GM screen soon and working on translating the new book so there's that.
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>>87513498
Drones are available to PCs but with some work. You just need a portable Net Architecture, which is expensive, but can fit in a backpack. Then they can either be controlled by a Netrunner, a demon, or just someone with a remote (control nodes have a physical expression too.)
>>
>>87514004
This is honestly retarded cope. Yeah you can sort-of hack together a way to carry a drone, but it’s very much not by intention and requires at least a loose outlook on the rules by the GM. And it is still harder and more expensive than it is to operate a drone IRL, when drones are near ubiquitous at a civilian and military level for us and are quite forward in the public consciousness.
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>>87514125
>very much not by intention
How so? The most recent DLC includes an assassin drone, specifically stating it's range if used from a portable architecture. That's how they meant it to work.
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>>87514166
Literally the first drone they added. In the core book drones are an afterthought at best and no mention is given to players utilizing them. I’m glad they’ve realised that’s retarded as fuck, at least, but the drone rules are still pretty jerryrigged. Hopefully black chrome makes drooning more concrete, it’s very silly that no cyberpunk game has really gotten drones right or even properly tried to. Boomer mentality. I hear cy-borg has a fun drone class at least
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>>87514267
They had an entire DLC release devoted to drones; half of them on NET Architectures, the others paired with and ran from an agent. The only rules that are really fuzzy on Drones are the effective range of a NET Architecture to control them (no concrete range, or explanation of method, or whether the range can be reduced or increased or control jammed, etc).

I know this because it was all my Tech is focused on. The agent-operated drones are pretty lackluster however and more organized explanations of drone operations couldn't hurt.

I do have high hopes for Black Chrome giving it a polish and content pass however.
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>>87514703
Wait, which dlc release was that?
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>>87514990
It was a bonus packaged in the Interface RED PDF. I'm sure one of your players or the Ref probably has it floating about, but if not it's 8.50 on DTRPG.
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>>87515246
Oh right, I ignored that because everything else in it was so gay. That sounds based as fuck though
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>>87471879
Is it just me or is it hard to find Cyberpunk RED? I’ve been looking all over and I can’t find it. Must be thanks to the high demand
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>>87513814
Everyone's going to have a different response to the Covid-era policies. Some will have loved it, some will have hated it. I have friends who lined up to get their clot-shots, and then never got their boosters. Others have had 5 of the fucking things. Some were forced or coerced over threats of losing their jobs. Some are vaccine-injured (heart problems mostly, strokes too, fatigue, ruined immune systems etc), but you can't talk about that. I was lucky that I wasn't under the mandates so I dodged that poisonous shit.

>All I know is almost twelve months after the shutdown finally ended I still see at least one in ten storefronts completely shuttered, and no one wants to talk about the last few years.
That's me alright - I'm one of those shuttered small businesses that got completely fucked by Covid-era policies. Australia has zero care for small business - completely on the teat of massive megacorps like Westfarmers, Rio Tinto, BGC, BHP etc.
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>>87510801

Introvert Australian here.

Being a hikki is different to being an introvert. The lockdowns were a horrible, anti-human time, since even for introverts that like to hang out in person with a small handful friends, that hanging out was suddenly """illegal""". Taking an uber was a roll on the die whether you would get someone who just wants to do their job, or someone so into The Current Thing who would refuse to take you if you weren't wearing a mask.

A bonus is, that meeting up for illegal Church made the grace of the holy spirit fill the air even more densely.
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>>87507992
>It would be an interesting role-reversal if the Traditional Land which (at least through lip service) is owned by various Aboriginal tribes suddenly becomes hot property.

Isn't this already an issue with land out in the desert having mineral wealth?
>>
I'm confused about RED's cover rules.

>Solo runs behind a bar counter or something that height
>It's about waist height so he's not in cover
>He takes a shot, then decides to end his turn
Can he just declare at the end of his turn that he bends over, or takes a knee? Do I have to design my maps around pillars and human sized stuff? Or litter them with lots of human shields?
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>>87517018
>or someone so into The Current Thing who would refuse to take you if you weren't wearing a mask.

I really don't understand why masks were such a sticking point. Wearing one was a token gesture at best and I'd take mine off constantly and no one gave a shit.
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>>87513752
>Also, I'm pretty sure Japan had incredibly few restrictions? They never had mandates for the clot-shot or masks.
Japan haven't had restrictions ease until recently. Intially the jap government weren't to concerned about COVID like every other Neo Lib government, but it bit them in the ass and COVID has dragged on longer there because the huge population density.
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>>87517187

People found an opportunity to power trip over something. It's discord moderator syndrome IRL.

I was getting something from a bottle-o, and the guy that worked there told me to put on a mask with a strong sense of wanting to exert authority over me. When I said the magic words "I have a medical exemption", he visibly deflated.

If you want to get more schizo about it, the symbolism of masks is relevant here. Here's a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heEMyxyCsX0

After I watched the above video, about how masks, like wedding veils or hijabs, are not necessarily for the protection of it being worn, but for the feeling of relief when it's removed. I remember watching some UN video where they were showing pro-UN propaganda at a conference, and everyone there was instructed to remove their mask for the duration of the propaganda, and to put the mask back on when it was over.

From a purely materialistic perspective, it makes no sense - but from a psychological manipulation perspective, it all links up. You want to condition people to associate the relief of taking off the mask with your manufactured ideals.

Easy cyberpunk hook for the same type of idea: [Totalitarian place characters live in] require that all legal cybereye manufacturers include face-jamming features, and cyberear manufacturers with voice-editing features, that will be managed by the [totalitarian place], to "promote the value of anonymity and treating your fellow human being with respect regardless of who they are". They are not required to be turned off when you're home with family, OR when viewing corporate-approved propaganda. The relief of actually being able to put a face to a person is then weaponised for propaganda purposes.
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>>87517286
nigger just put the mask on for 5 minutes and take it off when you no longer need to wear it. It's a basic precaution not something schizo psy op jfc.
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>>87517358

>Choomba, just turn on the anonymization features on your cybereyes and cyberears for 5 minutes and disable them when you no longer need to. It's a basic precaution to be a decent human being not some corp psyop jfc.
>>
>Oh wow, the /tg/ Cyberpunk thread's been busy, let's see what cool things they have to say about their experiences with the game!
>just some retarded aussie /pol/sters shitting up the place with their antivax and "oh my liberties" bullshit
>great
>>
On the topic of cyberpunk not modernising - I recently watched a great “cyberpunk adjacent” show. Severance. It’s definitely firing my neurons.
>wake up in office with no memories
>you apparently agreed to elective surgery to bifurcate your brain
>your “work self” is only conscious and aware during work and has no memories outside of work
>your “real self” has no memories from work
>corporate abuse ensues
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>>87517783
Severance is mindblowingly good. I hope they don't fuck it up in season 2.
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>>87517474

>I want to engage with people who like the same game I do, a game about the dangers of megacorporate technocratic capitalist abuse
>Why are these same people paying attention to when these themes play out in the real world, and talking about it?
>>
>>87517783

I think one area where cyberpunk fails to modernise, is that it expects corporations to actually retain their ethnic identities and flavours.

Cyberpunk was born out of an era where there was fear that Japan would economically overtake the world - and part of that aesthetic involved a cultural Japanification of the world

However, the opposite has happened - corporations are losing their ethnic identities, and converging into identical globohomo scop, with different skin colours & languages but completely identical cultures and aesthetics.

There is one angle that I'm not seeing being addressed in cyberpunk media, and that's another converging element in mainstream megacorp culture - corpo-spirituality, meditation, and making the corp the cultural centre of your life. The movement in contemporary corp culture, is that corporations are attempting to supplant the position of religions, complete with co-opting religious practises. Pure materialistic cocaine-fuelled 80s greed simply doesn't last - corporate culture is branching out into how to weaponise spirituality for corporate gain.
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>>87513498
>cyberpunk, as a genre, needs to stop replaying the fears and tropes of the 80s and 90s.
Those tropes are cyberpunk as a genre. There is absolutely no reason for dystopic science fiction based on the fears and anxieties of modern society to be called cyberpunk, other than as a cynical marketing ploy to leech off the popularity of 80s/90s-derived media.
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>>87517875
>YWN be told facts about yourself by a sexy Asian elfin milf who threatens you when you react
Why
Even
Live
>>
>>87518640

>There is absolutely no reason for dystopic science fiction based on the fears and anxieties of modern society to be called cyberpunk

I disagree - there's a bigger scope of essential cyberpunk themes that can be separated from the accidents & window dressing of its historic origins. So long as corporate control and ubiquitous tech remain threats on the horizon, cyberpunk can and will be a relevant genre that can be updated to match the times.

I love pink mohawk Jap-corp fax machine cyberpunk as much as the next guy, and enjoy consuming 80s/90s cyberpunk media and modern cyberpunk media that is intentionally throwing back to 80s/90s cyberpunk, but if I want to write new cyberpunk, then I have to actually address the issues of today, which is increasingly becoming actual cyberpunk and giving increasingly more fuel for cyberpunk stories, and making it more clear what the problems with corporate control and ubiquitous tech are, as we continue to see examples. That as a springing board, can be fuel for more well-written cyberpunk.

For example: Mirror gazers in VR chat. That sort of stuff I would've expected to read about in some psychological horror splat about cyberspace, but it's happening IRL.
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>>87517106
>Isn't this already an issue with land out in the desert having mineral wealth?
Yeah but with Cyberpunk you can scale up the stupid. BHP or Rio Tinto having private armies - the Green Party seceding from the Federal Government to enact/support an autonomous Aboriginal Land Zone etc
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>>87518758

>the Green Party seceding from the Federal Government

Hot damn there's a lot of spicy potential in that idea.
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>>87518640
Lame way of thinking tbqh
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>>87517286
>It's discord moderator syndrome IRL.
Savage, yet true.
>magic words "I have a medical exemption"
I tried that on with anyone who tried to get me to wear a mask - in one instance they demanded to see my exemption (despite by law they having no authority to ask), and when I challenged them on their ability to verify a medical exemption they proudly stated "Our bosses told us we do, so we will". Bloody NPCs.
>>
>>87517358
Some parts of Australia had state-wide mask mandates, as in even outdoors you were forced to wear them, even during exercise unless it was deemed "vigorous". Hundreds of thousands in fines were issued over mask-mandate violations.
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>>87518826
Wasn’t it just VIC and the capital territory? Not that it’s not dumb as fuck
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>>87518347
Cause like all Leftists, the only good government overreach is their government overreach.
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>>87518442
>>87518640
For what it's worth I feel that Cyberpunk has lost a lot of its aesthetic and draw by being too modern and abandoning it's 80s/90s vision of the future. It's rapidly feeling like every other SciFi-thing.
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>>87518839
WA did for the second lockdown? It's all a bit hazy. It later become an indoors-only mandate. It's still retarded that those powers allowed the state to tell us what we could/could not wear.
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>>87518881

Because cyberpunk has gotten more mainstream, it has attracted more middle-of-the-road creators who are locked into the currents of modern trends, which cyberpunk as a genre predicted, rather than predicting future trends.

I'm working on something that I hope will inject some life into the genre, and am very confident I'm able to bring something new to the table, completely out of left field.
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>>87518442
>corpo-spirituality, meditation, and making the corp the cultural centre of your life. The movement in contemporary corp culture, is that corporations are attempting to supplant the position of religions, complete with co-opting religious practises.
That's a great observation and addition to a Cyberpunk setting. The older works assumed that everyone would hate the MegaCorps but be forced to buy from them thanks to Hyper Capitalism Monopolies. But instead, like you pointed out, MegaCorps are objects of worship these days, with entire personalities being built around specific brands.
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>>87517783
I didn't realize mainstream TV was ripping off Delicious Tacos stories now.
>>87517358
>It's a basic precaution
It was until it got cargo culted by becoming the Current Thing. Remember how we went straight from authorities saying "don't wear masks, they don't help" because they were scared shitless of a shortage to "if you do not wear a mask at all times when outside your home you are literally a danger to the public"? Importantly, both those statements are lies. Quality masks actually do work reasonably well at protecting the wearer and if you absolutely cannot afford to get rona you can wear a P100. It's a moot point now that we have extremely effective treatments for rona anyway, paxlovid removes nearly all of the danger that was left in the newer, less deadly variants.
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>>87518963
>I'm working on something that I hope will inject some life into the genre, and am very confident I'm able to bring something new to the table, completely out of left field.
I wish you luck.
I'll be doing the inverse and trying to make a cut-back retro-Cyberpunk game system heavily inspired by/aping 70s and 80s visions of the future, vaporwave, and cassette-futurism. Bulky Cyberdecks like Nintendo Powergloves, David Bowie haircuts, CRT screens, and biker jackets with just ridiculous shoulder pads. To quote Mandalor Gaming "You can fly to space but your computer wont have a taskbar".
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>>87518963
Same desu
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>>87517144
Yes, I think, there is nothing against it RAW iirc.
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>>87518347
Is this the original comic?
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>>87517144
>Can he just declare at the end of his turn that he bends over, or takes a knee?
Yeah, pretty much. That's the idea. They just didn't want to get into silly amounts of detail re: cover. Now the Solo's enemies can start hammering the concrete bar counter and trying to strip away the 20HP it offers of cover. That Solo better have a good plan to get to more cover soon - 20HP won't last long against those Maelstrom goons and their Heavy Pistols.
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>>87521006

I believe so
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>>87518976
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>>87521006
Holy shit, it doesn't even have JPG artefacts, I've finally found it!
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>>87517875
>>87517783
I didn’t think I’d be moved emotionally by an old gay romance done by Christopher fucking Walken
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>>87521017
If one of his enemies is particularly clever, they can also hold an action to shoot him when he pops out of cover.

RED really does offer a lot of functional complexity for all its simplifications from 2020.
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>>87510513
Who is the guy on this picture?
>>
For anyone who's interested, latest Black Chrome preview has dropped from RTG:
>https://rtalsoriangames.com/2023/01/27/rtg-and-open-gaming-black-chrome-sneak-peek-mark-2/
Kind of underwhelming - nothing detailed, not a preview of a single item, just a list of cyberware that will be in the book.

Also an interesting commentary on OGL and their stance on a possible future. Fuzion... I remember that, touted as great but never seemed to go anywhere besides some third party supplements.

Hot damn, though. This thread has got my brain itching. As much as time (and tech) has moved on since the beginnings of the cyberpunk genre, and since its heyday, and as much as its preoccupations have evolved... there's a part of me would love to see a game (or even just a splat) with pixel art. Because nothing says 80s to me like pixel art, and that's where its true roots are. Just maybe without quite such a heavy lean-in to purple, as modern art with an 80s vibe seems to have.
>>
>>87526843
Translation:
>We'll let you know when it's not longer relevant, lol.
>>
>>87526843
100%. I want my Cyberpunk to look like a weird combination of Snatchers, Blade Runner (the isometric game), and Hotline Miami.
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>>87528841
20 years ago I think they would've been all over it. But their two big properties right now are The Witcher (which they don't own), and Cyberpunk (which they do own, but big-money licensees are playing in the sandbox). So I get that they can't go OGL on the former at all, and that they have to tread carefully on the latter. I still think their fanworks policy is reasonable - and in all honesty, I don't keep up with D&D enough to know whether an OGL setup is actually a good idea. For all I know the marketplace could be flooded with low-effort crap.

>>87529052
I'm not sure about Hotline Miami. I'd go with Blade Runner (both movies and the adventure game), Johnny Mnemonic, Snatcher, the retro-future look of Alien, little hints of noir-esque architecture (I guess like the use of the Bradbury Building in Blade Runner)... and then contemporary things like capsule hotels, container markets, and some of the aesthetic of The Matrix (the weirdly retro touches in the virtual world, the lashed-together and worn look of the Nebuchadnezzar interior, and especially the big multiscreen rig they had for their runs). Maybe some touches based on Bubblegum Crisis (especially the police and their weapons, and some of the vehicles) and other classic cyberpunk anime. Demolition Man had some good visuals too, even if it was not a great film (those suits are just so perfectly corporate, and the police uniforms!). Lee Sullivan's art for the Marvel comics adapting William Shatner's TekWar - yeah, that one's obscure. And 2000AD, mostly Judge Dredd (plus the Karl Urban movie). Elysium, Chappie, Repo Men, Strange Days... plenty of things to take inspiration from, even the designs from the remake of Total Recall (otherwise a pretty indifferent film).

Bit of a melange of influences there, but...

Hey, speaking of cyberpunk film, how am I only learning in $currentYear that there's a film adaptation of Gibson's New Rose Hotel!?
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>>87529858
>Demolition Man
>not a great film
t. doesn't know how to use the three seashells
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>>87483668
>British cyberpunk
Other than 2000AD, the other barely-counts I can think of is Vurt, by Jeff Noon, which is more trippy/drugs than cyber at all, but it had some aesthetic
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>>87529858
>how am I only learning in $currentYear that there's a film adaptation of Gibson's New Rose Hotel
It's pretty bad
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>>87530076
>>87483668
*blocks ur broadcast*
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>>87530123
>pirate broadcast
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_signal_hijacking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjeUuakHsLw
>tv movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZY-yQYVf38
>>
>>87530123
>tfw read that filename as MaxheardroomMpregMan.jpg
I seriously don't remember that episode!
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>>87526843
What kind of borg goodies do you think we're getting?
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>>87526843
>squirt cyberfinger
The jokes write themselves.
>>
>>87518826
Yeah but in my experience those rules weren't strictly enforced. I think people really overstate how strict autralia was with it's mandates, that every city was like melbourne (which got fucked by covid anyway). I took mine off constantly and never got fined. If I didn't have a mask usually I could find one pretty easily or just get in and out before someone complained.

>>87518800
>and when I challenged them on their ability to verify a medical exemption they proudly stated "Our bosses told us we do, so we will". Bloody NPCs.

What do you expect a wagie to say? I doubt they personally care what you do, but company policy is company policy and they don't want shit from their bosses.
>>
>>87532880

>which got fucked by covid anyway

Which got fucked by covid *cases*. Do remember how they redefined "covid case" to not mean "A person that has confirmed covid" but to mean "Literally anyone who has stepped within 5 meters of a testing kit". 10,000 new cases meant 10,000 people have taken the test. It was blatantly and transparently bullshit, and I'm frankly shocked that people head-in-the-sanded about it.
>>
>>87519058
Yeah that's my point, I never got why they became such a sticking point for some people. Being anti lockdown I get, but so much hysteria behind a simple piece of cloth or plastic that could be easily removed. It was like the Skub of the 2020s.

I wonder if the pandemic wouldve gone down easier in previous decades where media was more consolidated and people trusted talking heads more?
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>>87533003
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
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>>87533003
Easy to understand, really. It got politicized. Moment that happened the whole thing was doomed. Setting aside the efficacy of the various types of masks, what gets me is how the anti-mask/anti-vax crowd make the flat earthers seem wise in comparison. Weird shit like "masks starve your brain of oxygen" from people whom, I imagine, don't demand their doctors remove their masks. Or calling the vax the clotshot. Sure there's an increased risk of clotting due to then nature of the covid protein spike, but what else has the same spike? Oh right, actual fucking covid, and in much higher numbers due to actively replicating itself on top of all the other tissue damage being caused. And I STILL see claims that natural immunity is superior because, "I only got the 'rona twice but my vaxer neighbor got it three or four times!" Motherfucker, once they caught the 'rona THEY had natural immunity too on top of the damn vax.

I wouldn't even vent on this topic except the thread is pretty close to autosage. Sure it's politically driven (and no political party anywhere is innocent) but set that aside because the pandemic is just an example of the problem. Whether it's this issue or another, whether it's manipulation by politicians or corpos, it is fucking terrifying how quickly people resort to picking a preferred reality out of a hat. And whether it's a political or corporate think tank running an algorithm to manipulate the public they'll likely find some way to fuck it up. The herd doesn't always behave as the shepherd wants.

Using the pandemic example again take China. They convinced their people the mRNA vax is designed to kill Chinese people. When their own vax turned out to suck and you can only weld people in their homes for so long, now they've let 'er rip and are back to playing hide the bodies. That after getting caught trying to steal how the mRNA vaxes were created.

We've got all the shit of a cyberpunk hellhole without any of the cool tech.
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>>87533548
Russia also was responsible for a lot of anti vaccine propaganda in the west which ironically made their own population super anti vaccine so they had to have huge campaigns to get people vaccinated - which were by and large failures.
The politicising also means it’s going to be very hard to get earnest and accurate assessments of various Covid policies. Another poster outlined how australia had a bizarre policy of batch testing but you had other places which pushed the other direction to downplay Covid numbers. There’s way too much political capital tied up in either hyping up the effectiveness of measures or in saying it was all pointless and or worthless.

Oh well, at least we didn’t fuck it up as badly as the Chinese!

Side note: you can find people who still think Covid is as bad RIGHT NOW as it was in 2019 and that we need lockdowns and mandates again, and possibly forever. This largely comes from agoraphobic misanthropes online, however, who are predisposed to freaking out and enjoyed the lockdowns, and they have negative influence politically
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>>87533608
>Side note: you can find people who still think Covid is as bad RIGHT NOW as it was in 2019 and that we need lockdowns and mandates again, and possibly forever. This largely comes from agoraphobic misanthropes online, however, who are predisposed to freaking out and enjoyed the lockdowns, and they have negative influence politically
And political actors who want to exert forever power since it already worked so well with Covid. There'll be Climate Lockdowns next. Mandatory Carbon-emission monitor devices. Social credit systems tied to social media posts. All that lovely dystopian junk.
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>>87518442
>There is one angle that I'm not seeing being addressed in cyberpunk media, and that's another converging element in mainstream megacorp culture - corpo-spirituality, meditation, and making the corp the cultural centre of your life. The movement in contemporary corp culture, is that corporations are attempting to supplant the position of religions, complete with co-opting religious practises. Pure materialistic cocaine-fuelled 80s greed simply doesn't last - corporate culture is branching out into how to weaponise spirituality for corporate gain.
>product made by corpos doesn't want to talk about the creepy practices corpos in the current era but rather just reheats 80s japanophobia
Realistically speaking, modern cyberpunk megacorps should be a mix of western "brand as religion" globohomo corporations and Chinese "we totally aren't just a front for PRC intelligence services to undermine your society and spy on you" corporations.
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>>87534118
Yeah that’s what I liked about severance. The corpo nightmare felt very “Amazon fulfilment center meets Mormons”
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>>87533720
>There'll be Climate Lockdowns next.
Nah, that would cause too much backlash from the idiots who claim to be suffering from climate crisis-related stress but still have to fly abroad for vacation every other month and buy the new seasonal NERPS (same as the last season's NERPS but now in a different color).
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>>87530076
>Vurt
Has its own RPG I believe. And it's on the to-read list.

>>87530081
I've sat through worse; I used to write Star Trek fanfilms for a hobby - aside from Hallmark Christmas movies and the last 20ish years of Bruce Willis flicks, those are pretty much the nadir of motion pictures.

>>87530123
Old enough to be aware of Max Headroom, not old enough to have seen it on TV. Have to see if I can stream it anywhere.

>>87532115
Probably exactly what's in the list. But if it was me writing the preview I would've given an illo and one or two stats, show people what they are actually getting. In this day and age of "buy it online", you can't flip through a splat like you would in your FLGS to decide if you actually want it.

>>87532240
Yeah, I'm sure there are other things people will come up with, too. Personal massager finger, probably. Or "pull my finger" gas capsules.

>>87534118
>Modern cyberpunk
I think Snow Crash nails it. Sure, it doesn't have quite the same corporation angle as you described, but look at our reliance on Amazon and Deliveroo and tell me that's not Hiro and YT personified... And the modern tendency to build estates with no amenities (shops, schools, doctors' surgeries etc) and the requirement to have a car to access them - proto-burbclaves? And then there's the metaverse... Zuckerberg, you unoriginal hack.

(And Gibson's Bridge trilogy is good too. Container markets, VR/AR, drones, SWATting, and a million other things besides)

But I agree - brand loyalty has changed in 30 years. We have virtue signalling, greenwashing, brand-as-lifestyle (what your chosen brands say about you and your values), influencers as brand ambassadors...

>Various anons on lockdown
It was different everywhere and it sounds like some were pretty awful. I enjoyed working from home and reduced social pressures. Especially not having to listen to the prat at the next desk waffling on about Love Island or the Kardashians. But better without lockdown, all in all.
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>>87533548

>"I only got the 'rona twice but my vaxer neighbor got it three or four times!" Motherfucker, once they caught the 'rona THEY had natural immunity too on top of the damn vax.

You know, at some point, I hoped that people would realise that if getting vaccinated four times against a disease doesn't prevent you from catching it, then the vaccine is bullshit, but I'm slowly coming to feel that basic pattern recognition is stigmatized in fear of being labelled a conspiracy theorist.
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>>87534293
>I hoped that people would realise that if getting vaccinated four times against a disease doesn't prevent you from catching it, then the vaccine is bullshit
Vaccine that just hides or lessens the symptoms but doesn't actually stop one from getting the disease is pretty normal stuff. If you want some real stuff look into how the oral polio vaccine can turn a person who took it into a polio typhoid mary.
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>>87534359
Agree. A virus isn't a static thing - they evolve and mutate. So a vaccine can't be 100% effective. Scientists do the best they can, and it has mitigated - not eradicated - covid. It's the same with the winter flu vaccines, where they formulate it based on the most common strains - you might get a milder infection or a variant you're not vaccinated against.

Anyway. Not here to argue science, or lockdown politics. I'd rather be discussing Weird Stuff (TM) in cyberpunk literature, like Wintermute's mysterious transmissions from Alpha Centauri, or the voodoo gods in the matrix from Count Zero. Or, hell, watching Walken and Dafoe chewing the scenery. (Or even Bruce Willis in Surrogates, which is a pretty cyberpunk kind of movie with a hikikomori twist)
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>>87534420
>Wintermute's mysterious transmissions from Alpha Centauri, or the voodoo gods in the matrix from Count Zero.
Doesn't MLO tie the two together, with Wintermancer getting its shit slapped by the Centaurians so hard it shattered and the fragments decided to LARP as loas?
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>>87495307
This will be a nice brisk translation job. Over in a week at most, I'm sure.
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>>87534509
Is that what happened? I can't say I remember that - but it's been a lot of years since I read those books. Schizo AI LARPing as voodoo gods... sounds like an episode of Star Trek TNG. (Maybe one where there's a Kardashian warship off the starboard bow.)

Actually, Count Zero is the reason I like CP2077 making the Voodoo Boys a netrunner gang. Kind of ties the two together. And makes me wonder if Ianos Games were onto something trying to bring paranormal elements into CP2020. Even if that's way off base for most people, voodoo and santeria and similar religions might find a toehold in the underbelly of Night City - and in new ways too. "Fit this sanctified capacitor to your deck and protect yourself from the imps of darkness lurking in the grid!", "Anoint your jacks with holy oil", etc. A pastor in London tried the holy oil scam at the start of covid, after all...
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63872317
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>>87534543
>makes me wonder if Ianos Games were onto something trying to bring paranormal elements into CP2020

I think it's the endgame of cyberpunk, since the materialist conclusion of cyberpunk has been played out - "Whoa, you can get your brain rewritten/copied/resleeved, who is the *real* you? Maybe your identity is an *illusion*? Maybe nothing actually has any meaning because we're all meat puppets in a meaningless universe? Whoooaaaaa". Yawn. That's been played out to death.

The next stage of cyberpunk is actually tackling with the consequences of cyberpunk in a universe that actually has objective cosmic intrinsic meaning.
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>>87534896
>the consequences of cyberpunk in a universe that actually has objective cosmic intrinsic meaning
Okay, that sounds interesting. Any further thoughts on how to execute that? Because I'm not sure I want either Ghost in the Shell to involve literal ghosts (and ectoplasm would be a pain to clear out of your cyberarm servos), or the cyberpunk version of that Star Trek movie where Spock's brother hijacks the Enterprise to go in search of Heaven, and Kirk kicks God's ass.

>resleeved/meat puppets
Someone's been reading Richard K Morgan. Not that I'm complaining, I like the Kovacs trilogy. Hell, I even like Market Forces.

I've a funny feeling there are similar ideas going on in some of Alistair Reynolds's Revelation Space sequence... been a while since I've read them but there was certainly immortality as engrams (cf. Alt Cunningham, Soulkiller, and Johnny Silverhand), and one novel that revolved around a protagonist whose memory had been so heavily edited that he was trying to hunt down and kill *himself*. Also a novella about explorers who become more and more cybernetic to challenge a lethal maze...

With the technological ability to separate consciousness from flesh (netrunning and Soulkiller), and the more mystic realms of things like the soul, ghosts, astral projection and out-of-body experiences, I suppose it's only natural for the two to collide. Is there a hidden Architect at the centre of the Matrix who defines reality, purpose, and the meaning of life? Maybe we'll find out. The "playing God"/time travel aspects of The Peripheral seem to touch upon that a little, the future manipulating the past into an alternate timeline...
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>>87534896
The most interesting exploration of the idea of intrinsic meaning in a universe, for me, was the second apocalypse series. But the best metaphysical cyberpunk is probably EYE divine cybermancy,
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>>87535235
Are your legs okay, anon?
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>>87536273
BWAHAHAHA!!!
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How do you all feel about being able to dodge bullets in Cyberpunk Red?
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>>87537981
I've run two short campaigns for two separate groups and both times everyone took REF8, and most people kept their BOD very low and just borged up. Don't really know how to feel about it, but it seems like there's an obvious way to "win" the combat. I had to just throw out straight up fights and make everything a spectacle where they'd only have so many turns to reach a place, or safeguard a VIP, etc.
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>>87537981
It's only if you've got a REF of 8 AND are able to pass an Evasion Check, which, to me, represents having the reflexes of a character from a John Woo movie. Totally fine for Cyberpunk, in my humble opinion.
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>>87536273
I'm not going to ask...

>>87537981
Granted, it's under very specific parameters, and since CP2020 came out we've had "bullet time" in games and movies... but I'm not a fan. Sandevistan, and being able to move faster than people can see, are just a tiny bit too far for my tastes. It's one thing to get a reflex boost, but otherwise feels a tiny bit overpowered to me. Still - depends what suits any given GM's tastes and game.
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>>87537981
Dodging bullets is fine, but I don't think you should be able to dodge the blast radius/shockwave of a grenade going off in your face.
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>>87534269
>Modern cyberpunk
>Snow Crash
>1992
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>>87537981
It's narratively equivalent to the shooter just missing.
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>>87538251
Doesn't feel 30 years ago. But it does seem to have been quite on-the-nose about a few things.

Of course, if you've got a better nomination for a good modern novel, we're all ears.
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>>87535021

So I would do that in a confessionally Orthodox Christian setting. I've been wracking my brain for quite a few years how to:

1. How to write Christian fiction that isn't the propagandistic feel-good then-everyone-clapped cringe that mainstream confessionally Christian fiction is known for being. This involves going back to and reading the best Orthodox fiction writers, in particular Gogol and Dostoyevsky. They wrote poignantly about their present, and Dostoyevsky predicted the future of Russian society - all from a brutally honest perspective of what it's like to be a fallen human, warts and all.

2. How to write Orthodox Christian fiction that doesn't betray the foundations of the faith, by say, writing in a setting that has fundamentally different metaphysics to reality as understood by Orthodox Christianity. Writing a fantasy setting with a pseudo-trinity and a pseudo-Jesus is dumb, and a fiction-parable where Christianity isn't true or on-screen in-setting but characters are named after Christian concepts is lame and obviously preachy.

cont. (1/2)
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>>87539358

3. The modern struggles of the Orthodox Church give ripe inspiration for cyberpunk - in the cyber element of the question of technology/modernism/philosophical atheism taking over the mainstream Church, and in the punk element of the non-mainstream Church being declared schismatics/heretics/state criminals, for not confessing Orthodoxy 2.0, which aims to leave behind the core of the faith in favour of joining The Great Globohomo Melding. There's no shortage of examples of this already happening in history - the mainstream Russian Church in the Soviet Era, that declared its alliance with the Soviet State and its Communist goals, was persecuting the Catacomb Church, to the point of signing them off as enemies of the State, to get shipped off to the gulags.

4. Cyberspace and decking is astral projection, but the in-setting mainstream understanding of it is that it's purely technological in nature, even though it is a realm of soul and thought. The Matrix is an elaborate demonic deception, Matrix programs are demon-thoughts that demons allow humans to "program". Obvious problem - If someone could manage to truly pray in the middle of the city, the Matrix would crash. But, even more obvious problem - is there a single person alive in the city who can truly pray, even ones that think of themselves as Christian, and even if they're in the true Catacomb Church? "These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me."

Earlier I also posted >>87518442 , so those elements would factor into the setting.

So, in my view, there's no shortage of opportunity to write good, non-propagandistic, confessionally Orthodox cyberpunk literature, since that fits perfectly into the cyberpunk & Russian literary tradition of seeing the current trends and extrapolating the future, and in this case, from an angle that I don't think anyone else is going to even try.
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>>87505352
It was never supposed to be used.
Its purpose was to tag obedience.
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>>87540617
>It was never supposed to be used.
>Its purpose was to tag obedience.
And prime everyone for mandatory climate check ins.

"I'm sorry, citizen. You've used your allocated carbon credits this cycle. You may not complete this purchase"
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>>87525024
Eric Sparrow from the intro video to Best Friends Play Tony Hawk's Underground 2. Eric was a character in the first game who was a total bastard and cheated the protagonist the whole game. He made a comeback in 2, thus the villain entry for the intro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V6IW-HJ3pk
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>>87540710
>"I'm sorry, Red-clearance citizen, you are not permitted to own Blue jeans"
t. Paranoia

>>87539358
>>87539377
Orthodox Christianity is quite alien to me, as is Russian literature (I've heard of Crime and Punishment, of course, but never read it), so I am intrigued by this. But you raise some rather interesting ideas and I think it is something I would choose to read. One of my favourite things in literature is using it to explore different cultural and philosophical frames of reference - and the idea of Christian cyberpunk feels pretty different and fresh.

>a pseudo-trinity and a pseudo-Jesus
Insert obvious Matrix joke here

>>87540853
I had to stop and google that... not sure if it's different age or different culture, but "Tony Hawk's Underground" conjures up a mental image of the comedian Tony Hawks trying to navigate the London tube. He does a sideline in ridiculing people who mistake him for Tony Hawk.
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>>87471879
I think its cool
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>>87494650
Wish I could get a gun without having to prostrate myself to the system and lose my rights for whatever reason they can think of.
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>>87540880
>>"I'm sorry, Red-clearance citizen, you are not permitted to own Blue jeans"
>t. Paranoia
Little did we know that Paranoia had correctly predicted our fake and gay future all along.
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>>87540880
>He does a sideline in ridiculing people who mistake him for Tony Hawk.
I mean...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlNmPlMVHU4
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>>87540880
>mistake him for Tony Hawk
That's just Tony Hawk's life.
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>>87540906
There are other ways to get a gun - whether that's from some shady fixer in a dive bar, or cobbling together a single-shot bolt-action Saturday Night Special from scrap metal. Of course, then you risk it blowing up in your face, or being busted by NCPD for not having a licence to carry. (We are talking in-game here, aren't we?)

>>87540953
>>87540997
>http://www.tony-hawks.com/skateboarding/
>pic related
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>>87534293
Vaccines aren't magic bullets, or force fields. They teach the body to fight the virus, and fighting it requires the virus already invade the body. Not to mention coronaviruses are extremely adaptive. This is why China's vax failed, because it was made the traditional way. It was reasonably effective against the strain it was made from, but lost efficacy sharply with each mutation. The mRNAs did as well, but to a lesser extent. That's why they tested if boosting helped, and then came up with updated boosters.

Now on a more edge of the future point more fitting to the thread, the US Army has been testing a "universal vaccine", the spike ferritin nanoparticle. Essentially it's like a 20-sided die only imagine that each face has a different variant of the viruses' spike protein. So it's not a magical bullet again, a one-time shield against all viruses, but it can teach the body to fight a lot of different variants from a single shot. Of course it's possible for a mutation to produce a protein spike that isn't covered, but then you either booster update or hope that the spikes you did use are close enough to provide reasonable protection. My point is, though, if people are already worried about the vax rewriting DNA, or BIll Gate's magical tracking chips, imagine when the word nano gets tossed in. I can't wait for Fox to start declaring the beginning of the gray goo apocalypse.
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>>87541119
>(We are talking in-game here, aren't we?)
Of course, in Minecraft.
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>>87537981
>>87538636 (me)
Also, remember that if you choose to dodge, you can just fumble into bullet that would not hit otherwise.
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>>87537981
A lot of people that I've played with seem to hate it for some reason. I don't know why.
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>>87536273
Rebecca Smasher [s]would make a good nickname for Adam[/s]
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>>87541259
I think the idea with the nanoparticle is that if you get a broad spectrum approach early on, based on either existing known variants or even potential variants if they can make their own changes, you can smother the next pandemic before it really takes off. Limit the number of carriers and severity of illness. Of course a lot of these approaches require widespread vaccination and good luck in this current climate.

>>87533720
I'm not sure about this. China has a lot of social pressure points they use to control their population but even they reached a boiling point, after all. People should know you can only push things for so long, or in the use hardly at all. For instance our lockdowns were more suggestions. People still went out and about without mass arrests, but more business were shuttered, no indoor dining, etc. Asking people to use alternate methods for grocery shopping like curbside delivery or shipping. Politicians should know (but you never can tell because they can be a particularly stupid animal) that you can only push the fear button so long before people become complacent, and are less likely to listen next time around. The economic hit was also pretty severe, so much so we're still dealing with it. Hard to imagine a government wanting to shoot itself in the foot, but then again we're heading into a new crisis with the debt ceiling in the US where a default could bring on a full blown recession. Last time they played chicken with the country's debt the US had its credit rating downgraded. It's weird because it isn't just the homefront that would be hurt, in order for the US to maintain its monetary grip on the world the dollar has to remain stable, or at least more stable than the alternative.

It's the part of cyberpunk that's hardest to capture, I feel. The government and corps (but I repeat myself) are basically super villains but ultimately their schemes are ruining everything. The environment, their customers, everything.
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>>87542890
Once you understand the labour theory of value and the tendency of the rate of profit to fall the inevitability just slides into place.
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>>87533608
That's an interesting comparison, and it is amazing how often the powers attempt schemes that backfire. This example is probably safe since a lot of countries have jumped on this bandwagon, but claiming elections are rigged/stolen. The people who believe this are overwhelming the same team as the person making the claim. Whatever short term gains this has a side effect is dampening their own voter base, since when people think the game is rigged they are less likely to play. It may not be enough to effect a national popular vote, but can upset tight local and state races, change the party of some capitalcritters, and could shift a presidential race by flipping a state where even with narrow margins winner takes all the electoral votes.

Sadly real world political examples stand out more. There are others, but Moderna jacking up the price of their vax to get more delicious government monies is just standard corporate greed. It's like corps convincing people that unions and universal health care are damn dirty SOCIALISM but whenever there is a crisis they're always first in line for government handouts. "Don't blame us, we're too big to fail and there's nothing you can do about it!" But what about AT&T's breakup- "NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!"

>>87542890
pic related
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>>87542890
>Politicians should know (but you never can tell because they can be a particularly stupid animal) that you can only push the fear button so long before people become complacent, and are less likely to listen next time around.
The last time that the labor force saw a corrollary increase in income relative to GDP was 1970. All of American media since has been focused on making you willing to live with less and accept more bullshit.

Where are we now? Corporations are people, minimum wage growth (minimum wage being a concept invented in the United States) is now soviet communism, and the retirement age is about to be increased while American health access is going into the crapper.

They want you to die poor. Resistance means nothing if you've starved to death by the time you're ready to fight.
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>>87543108
It's been interesting watching Netflix struggling after selling their investors on the idea that somehow their brand would just keep growing forever even though the number of potential viewers is finite. Now every fucking studio seems to have their own streaming service. Who wants to pay for 4-5 different streams just to watch the newest fad show that only has 8 fucking episodes anyway? AND many of them are or will be adding commercials (lowest tiers to start but we'll see how long that lasts).

I'm waiting for someone to say, "Hey, why don't we collect all the studios together in a single package, with commercials, and we can even sell them special devices to watch it on. We'll call it 'television'!"

>>87543177
An important distinction is that corporations are people in terms of free speech (as in money to campaigns) but not people when it comes to things like personal responsibility for their wrongdoings. And their top execs aren't liable anyway. Maybe some low ranking middle manager who didn't even have the authority to do the crime but did order someone to xerox copies will be sent off to jail. Problem solved.

Speaking of management, anyway else hear how the newest darling ChatGPT passed its MBA exam? Delamain is comin' for you, assholes! Automation isn't just for line workers anymore!

Oh, and there was also this story:
>A robot was scheduled to argue in court, then came the jail threats
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/25/1151435033/a-robot-was-scheduled-to-argue-in-court-then-came-the-jail-threats

tl;dr? A guy was going to use an AI as his lawyer and several state bar officials threatened to sue his ass.
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>>87543256
Streaming services removing stuff with little notice and fairly randomly, while spreading content across over a dozen platforms is removing the greatest asset of streaming: convenience. I’m getting back into pirating because sometimes it takes as long to find a streaming service for a movie or show as it would to torrent. They don’t realize that the movies and the shows are the draw, not the brand of the streaming service
On the other end, the anti royalty scheme and the mass cancellations are just going to push the people who make the movies and tv shows away from certain distributors. Why would literally anyone choose to pitch their show to Netflix or animate for Cartoon Network?
And you can trace almost all of this back to the writers strike.
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>>87543256
Regarding AI automation and “intellectual or creative” careers I would recommend reading “art in the age of mechanical reproduction” and then think about those ideas extrapolated into the age of mechanical production we appear to be entering. I don’t really think the arguments that AI will elimate whole professions (at least mid term) is realistic but I personally think it will redefine them and shrink their workforce. Some will become more professional but some will become less, like the shift from artisans and craftsmen to labourers and designers.
But I’m just a faggot on the internet
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>>87543591
>the greatest asset of streaming: convenience
Damn straight. If you make it easy and affordable people will pay. Hell, they're more likely to cut their food spending before entertainment. Make it hard? They'll just put on the eye patch again.

Reminds me of how corporations don't want people to own anything anymore. It's all just temporarily licensing and they can revoke your access to shows, films, music, and books you've paid for at any time with no warning. Or the right to repair struggle against Apple, John Deer, and so on due to restrictive proprietary tools, software, or just soldering in parts so they can't be removed without breaking shit. You buy a new car with all these features built-in but to access them you have to pay a monthly fee. You buy, oh, let's say a home security system or other integrated smart home shit and then the company folds bricking all the devices because they need to call home or some shitty cloud service to work.
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>>87543654
If it helps all of our AIs aren't really intelligent, just trumped up pattern recognition systems. A lot of ChatGPT's output turns out to be well packaged garbage, as in it can parse together convincing arguments but the actual data it provides is often pure shite.

In theory there is no reason we can't create an AI. The human brain, after all, is a relatively small package for all its capable of and also runs on meat and veggies. In practice, like fusion for errybody, true AI is always just around the corner.
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>>87543654
As a grudging Forever GM I for one welcome our new tabletop chatbot overlords.
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>>87543760
>If it helps all of our AIs aren't really intelligent, just trumped up pattern recognition systems.
Uh, anon?

That's what intelligence is.

Now there's a lot of potential debate so far as self-awareness and sapience. But so far as basic intelligence is concerned there are three primary elements; physical coordination, pattern recognition and data retention.

Ironically the one that robots are the least-skilled at (physical coordination) threatens the least-valuable jobs.
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>>87543792
Well you certainly don't rate intelligence very high. Not even the merest inkling of sentience or sapience? No capacity awareness? No ability to consider its own answers as opposed to just regurgitating responses?

It's especially egregious when most modern AI has actually been "taught" by crowd sourcing like Amazon paying pennies for people to identify stop signs. You consider intelligence mere pattern recognition? So goddamn captcha is an AI to you?
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>>87543686
The smart home fad is basically companies convincing people to pay for the installation of more surveillance devices so their fridge and washing machine can spy on their habits and report home. Like with social media where the userbase aren't customers, they're the product. The true customers are the advertisers and anyone else willing to pay for datasets on what people are eating, reading, watching, where they shop, who they vote for, their network of contacts, etc.
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>>87533003
They became a sticking point because public health scum had the brilliant idea of turning everyone into cops by spreading the idea that you wear a mask to protect others rather than yourself. If you believe that, it's not enough for you to make your own decisions about what level of risk you're comfortable with, anyone who doesn't take the same precautions as you is a threat to you and you're justified in either ostracizing them or forcing them to comply. That is what turned masks into a culture war issue.
>>
>>87544074
>That is what turned masks into a culture war issue.
What turned masks into a culture war issue was that some morons thought that masks protecting others was just an "idea", and not a simple fact.
>>
>>87543916
>Not even the merest inkling of sentience or sapience?
I literally referenced this with regards to
>Now there's a lot of potential debate so far as self-awareness and sapience.
Intelligence exists throughout the animal kingdom, and recent research shows that a form of it even exists for plants and other seemingly simpler organisms. So far as humanity is concerned it is the only sapient intelligence on the planet.

>No ability to consider its own answers as opposed to just regurgitating responses?
Does the lizard ponder why it wants to eat flies?

Is it intelligent enough to hunt flies down?

>You consider intelligence mere pattern recognition?
All of cognitive science considers pattern recognition the fundamental precept of intelligence.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

>So goddamn captcha is an AI to you?
Why do you think Captchas were used to see if you were a robot? Because intelligent beings are good at it. That it was also being used to train artificial intelligences is seemingly an obvious conclusion to that, because of course you would use the behavior of intelligent beings to train machines to mimic intelligent beings.
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>>87544074
Jesus, it's not even like masking is the only part of public health that revolves around protecting other people. Fucking hell, even Employees Must Wash Hands isn't about self-preservation. As if basing policy around selfishness is somehow better. My god, how bleak. As if it wasn't bad enough that the people shouting that we should open everything and rush to achieve herd immunity were also refusing the vaccination which would help rush herd immunity without, you know, actually catching the fucking virus.

America is such a beautiful example of dystopia. One political faction declares, "My body, my rules!" except, of course, when it deals with abortion or recreational usage of drugs. The party that wrung their hands at the heavens over medical "death panels" decided it was fine. Just take one for the economy and anyway grandma lived a long life and is now surplus to requirements. At least she's no longer a drain on medicare which we also want to gut.
>>
>>87544294
I think where you are fucking yourself over is here:
>recent research shows that a form of it even exists for plants and other seemingly simpler organisms
When we talk about AI we aren't talking about the computer equivalent of ants or plants. Not even sure why you'd think so.
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>>87544317
I'll grant anon ants or bees at least in terms of nanobot swarms, as in low individual capacity for thought/awareness while typically slaved to a more intelligent system or otherwise form a hive intelligence, both of which far exceed anything found in the insect kingdom.
>>
>>87544317
>You consider intelligence mere pattern recognition? So goddamn captcha is an AI to you?
We're literally using ant research to create microdrones, so... you're just plain fucking wrong.

The problem is you seem to be hinged on the concept of sapience being important to the artificial intelligence that corporations are trying to create. Quite the opposite. They do not want machines that feel, that suffer, that would want for better treatment. They want a perfect workforce, unquestioning in loyalty and consistent in productivity.

Does that sound like a human-like intelligence to you?
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>>87544396
>drones
>ai
one of these things is not like the other.
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>>87544306
I’m 90% certain that anon is Aussie
>>
>>87544448
>I don't know what drone researchers are doing
Not every drone is a remote control taco delivery device, anon.
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>>87544396
You're arguing the paltry endeavors of reality versus a hundred years of pop culture going back at least to RUR. When people think of AI, so called "true" AI, it's something approaching human level intelligence. It's Skynet becoming self-aware, nuking the planet, and then building terminators. It is NOT the staplers in the smart office going rogue and foraging among the filing cabinets for loose leaf paper.

I'm sure if you dig around some fiction exists with smaller scale AI, but generally speaking when we talk about AI it's smart, self-aware, digital intelligence, even if it's just that damn kid who sees dead people. It may or may not be installed in a body, or be a centralized or decentralized intelligence, but it's certainly not what you're going on about. It's why a lot of fiction makes exceptions for systems closer to what we have, dubbing them "Dumb AI" or shit like Mass Effect's Virtual Intelligence, purposefully made less capable and aware because they fear true AI becoming our software overlord.
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>>87544475
Nevertheless I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who believes a drone is the same as an AI. An AI, on the other hand, may employ drones, especially militarized murder drones as it proceeds to Kill All Humans™.

Also Delamain would like to say, "Kindly go fuck yourself, sir," because there's nothing wrong with an AI running a people delivery service. He'll even take you to the badlands where someone will grill you a nice fried rodent and roach enchilada.
>>
>there are unironically 'people' posting in this thread that got vaccinated and supported lockdowns
>they consider themselves punks
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>>87540997
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>>87544560
Anon, people in cyberpunk dystopias get vaccinated all the time. The punks that choose the corpos background might get theirs as part of their premium platinum health package, however, the rest will get theirs from a back alley doc providing dosages hijacked off of trucks/loading bays by solos. If you're feeling ritzy you might even spring for a doc who runs the needles under hot tap water before reusing them.
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>>87543108
>labour theory of value
Communist nonsense which has no relation to reality.
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>>87544178
>What turned masks into a culture war issue was that some morons thought that masks protecting others was just an "idea", and not a simple fact.
Orrrrrrr they just wanted to be free to make the decision for themselves?
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>>87544306
>The party that wrung their hands at the heavens over medical "death panels" decided it was fine. Just take one for the economy and anyway grandma lived a long life and is now surplus to requirements. At least she's no longer a drain on medicare which we also want to gut.
Tbf Chinese bat flu is usually only dangerous if you are morbidly obese, old as fuck, and/or have ruined your immune system or lungs some other way; if you aren't, it most likely won't be any worse than strong influenza. The problem is that the majority of the American population belongs to at least one of those high risk categories.
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>>87544617
There is plenty of shit you're supposed to do as part of basic common decency when engaging in society, such as wearing pants in public. Is a bit of cloth over your mouth during a pandemic really so difficult?

>>87544603
He probably also thinks they wouldn't wear masks when it's one of the easiest ways to foil the omnipresent smartcams.
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>>87544306
>without, you know, actually catching the fucking virus.
lol. People still believe the clot-shot actually stopped anyone from catching Covid.
>As if basing policy around selfishness is somehow better.
We didn't want policy. We were happy with general guidelines and then leave us alone.
>One political faction declares, "My body, my rules!" except, of course, when it deals with abortion or recreational usage of drugs
Abortion and drug use are moral considerations, not just legal ones. Shocking that a Conservative party would have moral objections to murdering babies and destroying societies through rampart drug use.
>>
>>87544506
>You're arguing the paltry endeavors of reality versus a hundred years of pop culture going back at least to RUR.
Quite the contrary, you are arguing over a pop culture conceptualization of artificial intelligence, as seen here:

>When people think of AI, so called "true" AI, it's something approaching human level intelligence.
This is shit you learned in movies. It's a trope. The reality of artificial intelligence is that it's a tool to be used to either supplement or replace human labor. And while idiots like you were coaxed by media to fear robots that rebel, the reality always was that you should have been afraid of the robots that were ever loyal. The ones that will replace defiant employees, free-thinkers and all threats to hegemonic rule by those who own most of the world. While you were always shaking in your boots afraid of murderous robots, your world was being taken over by economy-manipulating stock market AI, next-gen military AI that will be central to mosaic warfare and monitor AI that creates online profiles of you while observing your internet behavior.

>>87544535
>Nevertheless I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who believes a drone is the same as an AI.
They aren't the same, anon. Drones are hardware. AI is software. Hardware runs software, ipso facto drones will run AI.

>>87544604
>Communist nonsense which has no relation to reality.
lmao https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
>>
>>87544691
>if you are morbidly obese
So like 70% of Americans were fucked?
>have ruined your immune system or lungs some other way
Even more so when you add in the smokers?

Nevermind the risks of long Covid and stories of athletes who can barely walk down the street without resting a year after their "recovery", what about the reports of lost IQ points? Average Americans already have so little to spare!
>>
>>87544617
If you just choose to be a cunt that's fine. But if your selfish cunt ass endangers others then your selfish cunt ass will face consequences. It's not a novel concept.
Drinking, home alone? No one cares. Society as a whole will even pay for your health issues. Drink and drive, get fucked.

Being "forced" to wear a fucking mask during a fucking pandemic is only an issue for selfish cunts and absolute morons. Because they're the only ones that need to be "forced" to do the right thing.
>>
>>87544506
Gay post. I don’t give a hot gay fuck what scifi had prepped people to assume “AI” is.
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>>87544705
>People still believe the clot-shot actually stopped anyone from catching Covid.
NTA, but your reading comprehension is fucked.
>>
Let’s all politely agree to not discuss REAL LIFE covid vaccination efficacy next thread and let the conversation die here. Give it a clean slate, save the derailing for after the bump limit.
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>>87544756
You're in a cyberpunk thread. They're always getting overrun by /pol/sters and RL burger politics. And now apparently by roo'tards as well.
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>>87544722
France found that smokers were less likely to get Covid for some reason. This was early days though
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>>87544763
>roo'tards
Now that's a good one.
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>>87544707
I hate to break this to you but as with robotics the idea was widespread in fiction long before science tried to make it a reality. That scientists are struggling to do so is another matter entirely. Your own problem is you're trying to weasel out of your missteps by playing an obvious game of semantics, and generally arguing in bad faith because the end result of what little progress has been made towards achieving AI isn't going to stop at "microdrones" or whatever shit you're trying to pretend is the real deal. Nobody is saying, "Well we have this fucker at stores now, so no bother trying to make Mister Data."

Hell, it's you falling victim to corpo speak PR campaigns that you believe the shit we have is anything close to the dream of digital intelligence. You're the same kind of sucker who would have fallen for the mechanical turk. Ironically Mechanical Turk is the name Amazon used for their crowd sourcing attempts to "train" a lot of their software by getting it to regurgitate on command what humans had already done for it. Do you even remember all the laughs we had at the "click on every image containing a bus" captcha system to train self-driving cars?
>>
>>87544763
>roo’tards
Yeah I’m gonna have to use that in the future kek
T. Aussie
>>
>>87544317
>>87544396

This is one of the reasons I wanted to approach cyberpunk from a perspective of Orthodox Metaphysics as I mentioned here >>87539358

In Orthodox ascetic literature, the holy ascetics write that sensory pattern recognition, imagination, and calculation, are all faculties of the the lower, animalistic part of the soul, tightly connected with the body. The higher part of the soul is the spirit, which is the part that can have the direct experience of God, and also the part that directly perceives the inner first principles of things, and where the free will is.

I'm a programmer by trade, so I know the limitations of computers: Computers are HARD limited to their hardware spec. When they run programs, programs are like a seed, and the flowering result of a program is limited to the hardware and design of the program. Computers act deterministically according to these initial parameters, designed into them by human souls, according to inner first principles like the laws of logic.

Since the human spirit is what can directly perceive the inner first principles of things, you would need to build a hardware analogue to the spirit. The problem is that computer hardware & software is fundamentally like a surrogate body, since human bodies act according to principles and impulses in the human soul, and computers do the exact same, but at another layer of abstraction.

Because of this limitation, it's fundamentally impossible for a computer to ever be able to directly perceive the inner first principles of things, and achieve true human-like intelligence. It can only ever act according to the understanding of inner first principles that its human programmer understood, and programmed it according to.

Now, if you had a demon possess a computer running an AI, and convince people that it's sentient, that's a different story.
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>>87544791
Gay post.
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>>87544730
Fuck you, gonk, nobody wants your goddamn Amazon Cloud assisted blowup doll, we want the dream of actual sexbots. Just because you've decided to settle doesn't mean the rest of us have to!
>>
>>87544813
Based actually interesting post. I recently watched a short YouTube video explaining the gap between is/ought statements and it’s application to intelligence as an idea and AI. In your setting the essential idea is that AI can perceive and recognize patterns, but fundamentally cannot have insights based on those observations?
Linking the video because it’s relevant to certain people getting butthurt ITT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEUO6pjwFOo
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>>87544855
>it’s application to intelligence
>it’s
>>
>>87544734
Forget it, Jake, It's Chinese spambots.

No, seriously. I'm convinced a large portion of the anti-vax crowd online are low social score keyboard peasants slaving for Dragon Emperor Xie the Pooh who feels that if his country is still suffering with covid because Chinese vaccines suck then the rest of the world must, too. Especially when its assholes claiming they're forcing this on US soldiers. Who else benefits by having a sizeable portion of the US armed forces sick?
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>>87544869
>its assholes
>its

What's wrong with you people?
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>>87544763
>roo'tards
I seriously haven't been paying attention, what did Australia do now?
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>>87544880
'stralia did nothing, some 'stralians are being tards though. For days now.
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>>87544862
Ok.
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>>87544891
From the thread context I'm guessing this is Canadian Freedom Convoy levels of tardity? Although I think the convoy imported a large number of idiots from their southern neighbor? Ausies don't have that excuse.
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>>87544910
The number of Aussie anti vaxers is actually very low. The most infamous ones go around chanting about how they are pure bloods who will inherit the earth, and live on off the grid compounds in the boonies. Got in the news for killing some cops recently. It’s no where near the scale of, say, america.
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>>87544879
Choom, this's 4chan. We donut tolurate Grammar Nazis hear, only axtual Nazis.
>>
>>87544924
My second guess was going to be something about soccer. Whoops, I mean the footie.
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>>87544791
>I hate to break this to you but as with robotics the idea was widespread in fiction long before science tried to make it a reality.
No shit, moron. That's why the reality of robots is completely different from the fiction we've been fed.

>"microdrones" or whatever shit you're trying to pretend is the real deal.
lmao how retarded are you when I gave a list of various AI implementations in my last post and not a single fucking one was microdrones but you're so fucking salty that your childish understanding of computer research (ie jacking off to terminator) wasn't adequate to keep up with the cutting edge of neural computing and machine learning.

>Hell, it's you falling victim to corpo speak PR campaigns that you believe the shit we have is anything close to the dream of digital intelligence.
Ah yes, cuz me specifically being fooled is the sole reason that China was capable of developing the AI-driven social credit system. You caught me, faggot!

>You're the same kind of sucker who would have fallen for the mechanical turk.
lmao yes cuz coordinated drone swarms flying in unison is totally something that a midget in a box could replicate without assistance.
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>>87544945
Footie isn’t soccer mate. Footie is either “Aussie rules” or rugby league.
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>>87544763
Time for OP to finally take a stand against that. And to remove the part about Shadowrun.
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>>87544969
Let’s just change it to “other cyberpunk games welcome” and add “please keep real life political sperging to a minimum.”
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>>87544756
This is fair, but I am happy it gave me an excuse to bust out the images I saved from a /tg/ cyberpunk thread back in 2021.

>>87544763
This is also fair. As someone who contributed to the politics shit, I'll apologize. Though it is hard to separate the two since it feels as if we're well on our slide into a true cyberpunk dystopia, only one without military grade augs for everybody and our best hope for VR apparently rests in the hands of Zuckerburg. Fuck this gay ass no-fun timeline.
>>
>>87544951
>China was capable of developing the AI-driven social credit system
Why pretend that China would want their system to be intelligent, or even fair? It's something to keep the peasants in place. The reason you're getting nowhere in this conversation is you're bringing this weak shit to the table and pretending it's the real deal. Wake me up when TikTok achieves sentience and produces its own mashup of launching all the world's nukes to a nauseating pop song soundtrack.
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>>87545019
You’re genuinely not intelligent enough to understand what he’s saying. You have no idea what AI means or what intelligence is and how it’s defined. It’s honestly embarrassing to keep falling back on what is essentially
>but that’s not how it works in comic books
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>>87544951
You bought into the corporate propaganda that they've created real AI as opposed to gussied up chatbots, but dress a whore in fine silks and pearls and she's still just a whore.
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>>87545065
>what he’s saying
Stop pretending you're other people agreeing with you, schizo.
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>>87545069
This feels like a missed opportunity to say, "teach a whore some new tricks," but whatever.
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>>87545077
>>87545069
Embarrassing.
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>>87545088
>when you run out of even shitty arguments and have nothing else to fall back on
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>>87544822
>gonk
I do appreciate these tertiary identifier slang terms.
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>>87545128
Coming up with nuspeak is half the fun of the cyberpunk genre, imo. Not that it's limited to cyberpunk, but definitely integral. Again imo.
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>>87545117
Why would I argue with you? I think you’re an idiot and immature, and those posts were embarrassing. /v/tier.
I’ve been on 4chan long enough to disregard retards rather than debate someone who is genuinely too stupid to understand what is being said to him.
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>>87544699
>just do it, bigot!
A brilliant move of social engineering, I must say.
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>>87544306
>My body
>abortion
What about the baby's body? We've seen it fit to give unborn babies legal personhood in cases of inheritance, for example.
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>>87545404
If/until it is able to survive on its own it's kind of a moot point. Hell, it's a moot point when the message is, "You must carry the baby, but we don't really give a shit what happens after it's born, so no social safety net, decent education, healthcare..." But then there is too much riding on convincing people that promoting the general welfare is actually communism.

Helluva way to end the thread, tho.
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>>87545343
>Why would I argue with you?
Says the anon who spent a lot of time and effort trying to argue. That you're falling back on personal insults says everything we need to know about you. "If the facts are against you," and all that.
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>>87545473
I never argued with you, that was actually another guy. We have very different typing styles. Another gay post.
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>>87545514
>We have very different typing styles
This is the cutest statement in the thread.
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>>87545548
Anon-sama, stop… we’re both boys…
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>>87545579
>we’re both boys
Not right now you're not.
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>>87545452
>If/until it is able to survive
You can also die right now before you can collect an inheritance. Point is that if you knock up a woman and die, that fetus has the legal right to inherit as your child. It has legal personhood, even when unborn.
>"You must carry the baby, but we don't really give a shit what happens after it's born, so no social safety net, decent education, healthcare..."
Is it easier to dismiss arguments by building strawmen around it so you can throw it out with the baggage?
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>>87545604
>Is it easier to dismiss arguments by building strawmen around it so you can throw it out with the baggage?
No no, it's throw the aborted baby out with the bathwater, silly. But seriously if the pro-life crowd cared about the quality of life in general they probably wouldn't come off like hypocritical assholes. There's a lot of shit that should be fixed for actually living people outside the womb, I have zero problems calling people out who demand more life be created while washing their hands of what that life is being born into. It would indeed by far more tidy and convenient, at least for you, if these things could be separated. Especially at the same time when you're playing up this weird inheritance angle as if it's universally recognized.
>>
>>87544855

>but fundamentally cannot have insights based on those observations

Yeah, it cannot have fundamental insights like we can. It doesn't have the metaphysical "hardware" to do it - it's a dumb heap of metal with no soul for the direct perception of immaterial and transcendant principles. It's pure dumb body, programmed by a disconnected soul.

Another consequence of this, is that AI can never do arbitrary levels of abstraction and idea compression. There's no clear limit for how much information a human thought can imply - You can hold roughly 5 to 8 bits of info in mind at once, but how complex each bit is, is not clear. For example, you could keep 5 low-level details of a single RPG setting in mind, to look at more detail how they work together, or your whole understanding of that RPG can be conceptually compressed into a single bit, and use "That RPG" as a whole thought, and free up the other 4 slots with other RPGs, and do conceptual comparisons between 5 whole RPGs at once. You'll get very high-level, intuitive and abstract insights, which you will have to then find words express in more detailed and piecemeal form.

This arbitrary thought compression is only possible because we're not doing conceptual compression with hardware - concepts aren't material, they're fundamentally thoughts in the soul.

That's one reason I think the trope of "If I become an AI and upload myself to The Net, then I will transcend the limitations of the flesh and be Godlike!" is backwards. Computers and programs are more fundamentally and purely body-like than humans - and significantly more fragile because of that.

(1/2)
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>>87545650
>some people who don't want to murder babies are hypocrites so that means it's okay to murder babies
>>
>>87545657

(cont)

An easy thought experiment to demonstrate it: Take magic like in Mage: The Awakening, or something equivalent. A programmer mage with high levels Forces/Mind/Time/Space figures out a way to freeze time at a moment, and comprehend the electrical configuration of an AI in the hardware systems it's distributed across. He then casts a Forces spell across all of the systems which manually, through forcefully flipping each electronic bit in memory, completely reprograms the AI to a spec the mage desires. The computer-AI is a total slave to its materiality, absolutely a slave to its hardware, and is significantly less metaphysically capable of continued survival as an entity. It's a rock that's been tricked into calculating - and is as metaphysically stable as a rock.

The exact same thing would be true for humans, if materialism was true, but if it's not and souls canon exist in the setting, then this type of brute body reprogramming is not possible to do on humans. You can certainly maim a human brain and destroy the physical memory that the soul uses to link ideas together while in the body, but that's only relevant insofar as the soul is inhabiting the body and thinking through it. Sever the soul's connection to the body and the soul is free to think very smoothly, without the limitations that the fallen flesh imposes on it.
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>>87545678
Ah, see, now you've just presupposed that it's murder. But I digress, you are indeed hypocritical when you're arguing that personhood for a child is de facto because of inheritance laws, which again aren't the same in every location, while at the same time some areas have legal abortion and thus abortion is not murder there.

You've made a house of cards and you're getting pissy that I keep knocking it over. I'll apologize if it makes you feel any better. I won't mean it, but I'll do it.
>>
>>87545682
>>87545657
>>87545657
>It's pure dumb body, programmed by a disconnected soul.
I just wanna latch onto this for a second - it is programmed by a disconnected soul. A sword is also a material object made by a disconnected soul. And yet when another disconnected soul uses that sword to kill, there is no material “sin gap.” That soul has killed and thus sinned. But has the sword maker himself sinned - note that he knows what swords are for.
Would someone programming a robot to sin be accountable for those sins? What if those sins arose from second order actions by the robot? What if they were u foreseen and undesirable by the man programming - is manslaughter a sin and is this manslaughter?
And what if he programs a machine for war and another soul uses that machine to murder - is that first man a sinner?

I know there’s complicated nuances to sin and killing but ignore that for now and focus on the root here - is a soul responsible for the actions of a machine it programmed in a metaphysical sense, karmically or however it works? What are the real metaphysical consequences here?

Not trying a gotcha, I’m genuinely interested in how this works in your setting
>>
>>87545702
>sniffing your farts this hard when you're not even talking to the same person because you're incredibly desperate to claim a 'win' in a thread near bump limit
absolute state of baby murderers
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>>87545702
I'd be happy if they instituted universal healthcare at least for children, along with guarantees to free, decent education and even college. Keep them healthy, educate them in math, science, the whole shebang, and allow society to reap the benefits. But alas it's easier to instead ensure that corporations add more zeroes to their bottom line and the 1% must be kept fed and happy. Plus Jeff Bezos needs more expendable fodder for his warehouses.
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>>87545761
>in a thread near bump limit
We crossed that line hours ago, dude. I guess /tg/ isn't your regular haunt. Fuckin' tourists.
>>
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Jeez, this thread got weird overnight. It's one thing to talk about 2020, Red, 2077, literature and film, but at least 50% of this thread seems to be /pol/-tier covid discussion.

The 'roo-fuckers don't help...
>>
>>87545717

The nuances will necessarily come back to haunt us, so I'll address some up front.

The actual judgement of sins, their consequences, and culpability, is a humanly impossible calculation. That's one of the reasons only God can properly judge others sins and forgive sins, and why making claims about your or other people's state of salvation is immoral - Only God has the perspective to make that judgement.

Practical human morality is a lot more ad-hoc, because it has to contend with limited human information, the conscience, a person's environment, and their opportunities.

Sin is only secondarily a recorded immoral act - it's more fundamentally damage to the soul. This damage is manifested as separation from God, and silence of the conscience. So when it comes to questions of "What counts as a sin?", the most important question to ask his "How does this action harm the actor's soul?"

>is a soul responsible for the actions of a machine it programmed in a metaphysical sense, karmically or however it works? What are the real metaphysical consequences here?

If someone has intentionally designed an AI to kill people, and psychopathically relishes this, then unambiguously, it would be clear that this act damages their own soul, and they are fully culpable for what this AI does.

However, what about a person who has developed visual processing soft for detecting counterfeit medical goods, but this soft just so happened to be useful for the Murderer-AI programmer's purposes. Is this second person culpable for the actions of the first?

It's difficult to say that this second person is culpable of the murder-AI, since his product has been intentionally misused. A man can make a hammer to build furniture, and it's not necessarily his fault if it is stolen and used to cave someone's head in.

Grill me with some more questions. I want to flesh my thinking out about this, too, and there's only so much one post can record.
>>
>>87545901
I think it's time to take a lesson from Red Dwarf, anons.

Next thread, how about we don't talk about religion, politics, or toast?
>>
>>87545858
Won't be the first time, won't be the last. No amount of "please try not to" is going to change it, sadly. It would be nice, however, if people would stop feeding the obvious trolls.

I'm more impressed the thread has 81 unique ips. That's pretty decent for /tg/, though maybe it means we got raided.
>>
>>87545943
Do you know if anyone out there still operates an old-style forum for 2020? Might be a tad quiet but at least it'd filter the raiders.
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>>87544723
>If you just choose to be a cunt that's fine. But if your selfish cunt ass endangers others then your selfish cunt ass will face consequences. It's not a novel concept.
>Drinking, home alone? No one cares. Society as a whole will even pay for your health issues. Drink and drive, get fucked.
>Being "forced" to wear a fucking mask during a fucking pandemic is only an issue for selfish cunts and absolute morons. Because they're the only ones that need to be "forced" to do the right thing.
You're just buying into the precautionary principle. We take that to its logical conclusion and you suddenly find yourself not being allowed to own and operate a motor vehicle (you may cause an accident), live unhealthily (you are a drain on the medical system), use central heating (contributing to climate emissions), and so on.

I just don't buy what you're selling.
>>
>>87544869
>Forget it, Jake, It's Chinese spambots.
Sure, bud. Because no one could possibly be against gross government overreach.
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>>87545932

The RL politics has skubbed this thread, true, even though it started as a reference to "This is how cyberpunk themes are literally playing out in our lives".

The religion speak however hasn't degenerated into skub yet - it's still relevant to writing cyberpunk with set metaphysical commitments. Cyberpunk has always been a naturally philosophical genre, so touching on confessionally religious elements as metaphysical commitments has potential to produce new and different cyberpunk, combined with the modern megacorp trend of putting themselves in the place of religions in people's lives.
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>>87544734
>NTA, but your reading comprehension is fucked.
Super good argument.
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>>87544763
>roo'tards
Hey, I resemble that comment.
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>>87544979
>please keep real life political sperging to a minimum
It's hard when real-life dystopia bleeds into make-believe dystopia.
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>>87545985
If it makes you feel better, I only said, "a large portion". I happily allow for the possibility others are just self-centered assholes and/or complete dribbling idiots. I mean damn, son, the gov didn't even do mandatory vaccinations which the Supreme Court ruled was kosher all the way back in 1905, but heaven forbid you can't get a haircut or eat in a Denny's for awhile. The lockdowns in the US were so fucking soft it's not even funny. So many places did so much worse. Cry me a fuckin' river.
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>>87546009
>To a minimum
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>>87546009
Damn, I am right there. I love this genre, but I play games to escape shitty reality. The bleed through is ruining the fun.
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>>87546049
Not a Seppo - our lockdowns were pretty rough.
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Anons have been talking about metaphysics in cyberpunk so next thread I’ll try to make a couple detailed recommendations. It inspired me to finally watch GITS Innocence which is exactly what I think certain anons would find refreshing (though it suffers from a reliance on cost cutting CGI, despite excellent animation in a few important scenes. It feels like two seperate teams animated it tbqh)
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>>87546052
Pretty sure anon's comment still stands. If parts of real life were the plot of a movie I'd laugh my way out of the theater, but since it's real it's not fucking funny. But truth is it still doesn't need to be brought here. I'll try to keep my own contributions to a minimum in the future.
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>>87546091
>GITS
I'm still trying to slog through 2045. It feels so off, and not just because it's all CG now.
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>>87546105
Don’t bother. GITS Innocence is flawed but when it shines it shines. It’s also got a very interesting idea at its heart and it’s both metaphysical and very dark even by GITS standards
Only GITS, Innocence (maybe), GITS Stand-alone complex (mainly the laughing man plot but S2 is interesting) are worth it.
Though i was required google to understand fucking standalone complex. TL;DR standalone is what Japan calls autonomous or drone systems. So a predator drone or a Terminator are stand alone systems. After that the points it was making clicked
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>>87545989
>The religion speak however hasn't degenerated into skub yet - it's still relevant to writing cyberpunk with set metaphysical commitments. Cyberpunk has always been a naturally philosophical genre, so touching on confessionally religious elements as metaphysical commitments has potential to produce new and different cyberpunk, combined with the modern megacorp trend of putting themselves in the place of religions in people's lives.
Check out Sacrament.
https://awastudios.net/series/sacrament/
It's a comic set in 2999 about the last few Christians in space being persecuted until they're needed to solve a demonic possession. It's got some Cyberpunk elements (like a device the priests use to give their followers a religious experience by tickling their frontal lobes).
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>>87546100
>Pretty sure anon's comment still stands. If parts of real life were the plot of a movie I'd laugh my way out of the theater, but since it's real it's not fucking funny. But truth is it still doesn't need to be brought here. I'll try to keep my own contributions to a minimum in the future.
Look, fair. I'm a salty bitch over Covid-era policies as they completely derailed me and my family's lives. I get stroppy when state-bootlickers show up to defend them (especially in a fucking Cyberpunk thread).
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>>87546167
The last thing I’ll say about Covid is that Americans should realize that their Covid policies were not representative of the world at large and Australians had some of the longest and most severe restrictions in the world.
Try to keep that in mind, maybe even educate yourself on the various policies across the globe.
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>>87542884
Hahahaha.
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>>87546243
>Australians had some of the longest and most severe restrictions in the world.
Don't need to tell me - I'm a roo'tard. I fucking lived it, mate.
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>>87546156

>It's a comic set in 2999 about the last few Christians in space being persecuted until they're needed to solve a demonic possession. It's got some Cyberpunk elements (like a device the priests use to give their followers a religious experience by tickling their frontal lobes).

Yo, time to check this out. Completely not at all the direction I would've gone - I'm interested.
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>>87546350
It is interesting. And I say that as someone who has absolutely zero affinity with religion, and often bites down the urge to quote Laurence Tureaud* to anyone discoursing at length on theology.

* - better known as Mr T. As in "Quit your jibber-jabber, fool!"
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>>87546410

What do you find interesting about it?
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>>87546350
>Yo, time to check this out. Completely not at all the direction I would've gone - I'm interested.
It's nothing crazy good - just a few interesting ideas to steal.



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