>What is Exalted?An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.htmlIt’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck>Resources for Third Edition>3E Core and Splatshttps://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e>Errata for Third Editionhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit>Other Ex3 Resourceshttps://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu>Resources for Older Editionshttps://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ>Essencehttps://pastebin.com/u3dtDFy2>NPCsHundred Devils Night Paradehttps://pastebin.com/iA1DYbpBAdversaries of the Righteoushttps://pastebin.com/KR7zTrpeEclipse Charmshttps://pastebin.com/adVHdWtk>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf>Optional Quixalted Exaltshttps://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file>4thchan Editionhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1XqjkwQIR38ov7uZVSZGpcjI0QCPIiFaQkVosZVlhGH8/(4.2Core)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ChMTi_E4OfseIPvC0dJo99IrGkgRuBm0QgfxF1RZUAk/edit?usp=sharing(4.2Spirits)>Exalted Demake (old, missing Solars and Lunars update):https://pastebin.com/xfkHLh2MPrevious thread: >>86814900Thread Question: do your character has mount? And what is your favorite Ride Charm?
>>86832370>RideI'm still salty about DBs having Ride and Sail as obligatory Aspect Abilities. Goddamn wasted slot for those Aspects if it's the wrong genre of game for those.
>>86832388What exactly is the "wrong genre" for ride charms?
>>86832424Dragon-blooded high school teenage dramaDragon-blooded dynastic court dramaSatrapy games centered around single citiesGames centered around boats and archipelagosLots of things, really.
>>86832455Legitimately, none of those stop you from having a familiar large enough to ride. >Dragon-blooded high school teenage dramaGiven an animal as a pet by your Dynast parent, you take it everywhere.>Dragon-blooded dynastic court dramaA familiar is actually really good in situations like this. I've got a character with a well-groomed great terror for a pet that brings it to every social event. Said great terror is an excellent conversation piece and can be used in interestingly manipulative ways.>Satrapy games centered around single citiesYou can't bring your horse or other animal into the city? You're a god damn Prince of the Earth, you can do what you want!>Games centered around boats and archipelagosFlying and swimming mounts are both things. I once saw a player decide to run with a kraken familiar, and used sorcery to make it so the damn thing could fly. Scariest shit I've ever seen.
>>86832498>thinking the professors at the House of Bells are going to let snot-nosed brats take their tigers around in the halls
>>86832529>Not pulling pranks on the Dean? with your mount"Soooooooolar House!"
>>86832498>Flying and swimming mounts are both things. I once saw a player decide to run with a kraken familiar, and used sorcery to make it so the damn thing could fly. Scariest shit I've ever seen.Talking about it, Can Ride interact with 3e Sail system?
>>86832529Shit dude, if you're at the House of Bells, do you know how much the other students are going to be fighting for your help? Bringing a 2 or 3 dot combat mount into the skirmishes and tests is a hilarious force multiplier, and completely doable.>>86832543They don't interact mechanically, unfortunately, because they're meant for different types of "mounts". One for vehicles, one for animals. You could probably kludge something together, but it'd be at the ST's mercy on whether it's allowed.
>"Soooooooolar House!">Exalted but a college comedy This ideas is more amusing to me than it should be
>>86832370>Thread Question: do your character has mount? Yes, a foul-mouthed unicorn (without the horn) who overcompensates by (sexually) dominating all mundane horses he encounters and will only allow females or very specific males to ride him. Often takes shots at people but has 12 dice to pretend it wasn't him speaking.>And what is your favorite Ride Charm?Invincible Fury of the Dawn
So odd thought but how do you guys think a Dragonblooded game will go assuming its mostly successful and doesn't fizzle out. Solars usually carve out a kingdom and potentially rebuild the first age but what sort of goals or long term projects would/Could a experienced Dragonblooded take on potentially. Resolving the Realm civil war one way or another is a obvious one but perhaps beyond that? The Realm and current order feels like its on borrowed time with the return of the solars but im curious if you guys have any thoughts.
>>86833239I'm in a decently long-running DB game right now, actually. The general flow has been>Off in the threshold doing our own thing, building a power base>Eventually get drawn into dynastic politics>Building up a locale away from the Realm proper that can be used as a refuge if necessary>We're essentially taking over the region, in spite of the Satrap getting pissed.>My character is having a kid with a local field godBasically, we laid down roots, and while we're contributing to the civil war, it's a distant thing we're not directly involved in; troops come through here, use us as a refuge, but otherwise we're doing a kingdom building thing similar to how Solars usually do. I imagine we'd be more involved in direct Dynast vs Dynast battles if we were on the Blessed Isle, but we're not.
>>86833239Pick a splat and start opposing their agenda. Sidereals are the most tied in with DBs and so the ones that will make the biggest change if you can blow open their conspiracy. But you can do it with any of them. Maybe you are the diplomats who marry into and start subverting the Autochthonian nations or find out about the Reclaimation and lead Realm forces to stop it.
>>86832370Depends on the splat you're playing, but any Charm that makes your mount a force to be reckoned with almost as much as its master is best. Who wouldn't want to ride Kokuoh, or Shadowfax? That said, stick with Sandact's or QE's homebrew and avoid Charmsets from the dullest franchise in the history of tabletop game franchises.Seriously, each episode following the tokenized Exalts and their mortal cocksleeves from Creation as they fight assorted foes has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the generic fantasy art and kitschy political pandering, the games’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of dice tricks, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.Perhaps the die was cast when White Wolf sold all their gamelines to Paradox; they made sure their games would never be mistaken for works of art that meant anything to anybody, just increasingly unprofitable Kickstarter scams. The Exalted gameline might be anti-Tolkien (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-LOTR in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.>a-at least the crunch is better though"No!"The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a supernatural force came up, the author wrote instead it was "numinous".I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Vance and Minton's minds are so governed by Twitter and Reddit that they have no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Exalted by the same RPGnet. They wrote something to the effect of, "If these people are playing Exalted at 16 or 17, then when they get older they will go on to get HRT and love Communism." And they were quite right. They were not being ironic. When you play "Exalted" you are, in fact, trained to read Marx.
>170 for sapphire veil Why not just say you don't want to write it vance you fuck.
>>86832370The Dawn knight fucks her dragon mount until she realizes he has been a Lunar before she even exalted.
>>86832370>do your character has mount? And what is your favorite Ride Charm?The modern charm that lets you become Ghost Rider.
>>86833239Ran a Dragonblood game for ~3 years, technically been on hiatus for a couple years now I promise I'll finish it one day, it focused on House Cathak breaking away from the Realm after the Civil War and setting up down in Goldenseal. Early game focused on Circle hijinks, going around, fucking up various problems, exploring the Cinder Isles, and bringing people under the banner of the new Cathak-Zhao Empire. We did a few time skips over the course of the game, the first big one was to set them up now as ruling the areas they conquered and working on long term projects. They established a replacement for the Heptagram, the Sanctum of the Obsidian Eye, continued to build up their crazy ninja army, and generally keep Anathema threats in check. They also then had children, each player started playing the kid of another player. Swapped those back and forth over the course of the game. Wanted to get that generational element into it since it's such a vital part of the DB narrative.The final part of the game had them figuring out that the Solars that kept popping up around the Cinder Isles were a specific Circle that was bound to the area because they're crazy First Age Warstrider was hidden in the dragon lines crisscrossing the archipelago. The Eclipse got a huge amount of Past Life memories and had been orchestrating a lot of the Solars shenanigans over the past decades as he tried to recruit his Circle mates that kept getting spawn camped by the PCs. All told the games took place over something like 50 years and had the PCs growing in strength personally, but also within their family, and their empire. At the end of the game one PC was engaged with the most likely successor to throne and was being groomed for command of the military, one was the head of a ninja death squad that made the Realm's Wyld Hunts look like amateur hour, one was the Headmistress of the new sorcery school, and the last was setting himself up as Minister of Coin.
>>86833613Damn that Lunar, foiling the Dawn's atremo at engaging in bestiality.>>86834138Just out of curiosity, did you use some kinds of rules to determine whether the original OCs' kids Exalted, or just mmake a judgement that seemed narratively fitting? The only campaign with generational play I've had was Pendragon, which has rolls for stuff like childbirth and child mortality, and I've just occadionalky thought about how generational play would be best handled in other games.
>>86834224To answer, yes, I had a rather complicated genetics system that I love to expound upon given any opportunity, however their first born I just handwaved and said they all exalted since they'd be the next PCs. All of them would have reasonably high chances anyway so it wasn't like I was rigging four 1% chances, but later on for their dynasty the actual rules would come into play.I'm still working on simulating out the entire Scarlet Dynasty into family trees and what their Detailed Breeding would be, didn't ever finish it beyond rough sketching out the Cathak family tree, but the idea was to really play into the Households and marriage games that the Realm does. I'd be happy to explain the system if you'd like.
>>86834278I would like to hear about your system yeah. I'm heading for work so I'll probably not be able to engage in discussion, but I'm definitely interested.
>>86830042 >petty shit like the boring direction heads from 2e being removedAll the Conventions were completely reworked, and not in ways that enhance actual play in-game. The Convention of Water is no longer underfunded and undermanned, which means that you don't get to know and work with a small group of peers dealing with too many problems anymore. This is a game I've run and had fun with and can't run anymore. The Convention of Air is no longer in the middle of a succession crisis, which is a thing I've tried to pull players into before. Convention of Wood isn't lead by the leader of the Gold Faction anymore because fuck you that's why, nobody liked named elders having any actual power or sway in the world anyway; however, the East having such a clear tie with the Gold Faction made it prime place to play Cult games, since you could and would be able to interact with the very top in a social setting, and that's been made more difficult now. The Convention of Fire is the only major Convention I think was improved, and even then I know it was used for tense intrigue games and while I can't say I ever used it that's more because the South is my least favorite Direction than anything.>>86833239Dragonblood Outcastes are basically Solars without the baggage. Anything Solars would seek to do that isn't part of their metanarrative like carving out a kingdom, starting a family with whichever waifu you spot, fighting other Exalted, doing crazy craft/sorcery projects, playing the map painter game, and so on are something you can do with a Dragonblood Outcaste game. Some things fairly unique to Outcastes are negotiating between normally opposing factions, since Outcastes are considered fairly neutral by most, and fitting in with big organisations as not the leader, like if you wanted to be a sky captain for the Haslanti, or a reformist Guild Factor.
>>86832370When called upon, my characters will ride an Agata, but none of them ever bought Ride charms
>>86834593Nta, what's your overall opinion on Sids? My expectations were rock bottom so I came away pleasantly surprised but it does feel like a lot of potential conflict and niches like the ones you mentioned have been "sanitised" or rendered invalid and the writing feels rather bland, like much of 3e. It's strange. As a whole 3e Yu-Shan feels like an easier place to have a no-frills adventure for Exalted that have never had anything to do with Yu-Shan because the gods and Sids are 400% nicer, but like you said all but the most fundamental major conflicts (i.e. Abstract Matters trying to maintain the status quo) in it being relegated to backstory events has cut off plot hooks for players with characters that have been involved in Yu-Shan for a while to engage in.
>>86834593>basically Solars without the baggageAhem. JanestExigents in general feel like an excuse to play Exalted without any of the written-in conflicts that define the Exalted
>>86832370Does Running to Forever and its upgrades count as Ride?
>>86834779>spoilerSounds like some kind of Wood-Aspect to me.>Exigents in general feel like an excuse to play Exalted without any of the written-in conflicts that define the ExaltedRather, they are intended to be that, so they are written to be that despite the glaring logical flaws it introduces.>>86834755>Nta, what's your overall opinion on Sids?Their additions to Yu-Shan seems mostly good, and when they've made changes for reasons they've usually been good changes. I like that they spread the Great Contagion to gods and let it run wild in Heaven, and I like that the heavenly city has seen it's fair share of disasters in eras more modern than the Usurpation. Generally, where it isn't overwriting old content it's usually good, and I like many of the new districts and areas they've introduced because they give us more points to extrapolate from in ways that expand the setting rather than conflict. Having PCs move through Yu Shan as anything but a description of glorious wonders flying past the dragon boat has been a real problem for me with previous editions, and I think the new sections give a lot of depth that was previously missing.I dislike almost all of the changes they've made to old content because I see most of those changes happening for little to no reason. In particular, I am not a fan of most of the rework they've done on the parts of the setting that are Sidereal-facing, like the formal protections from audit, the lack of Maiden involvement, and how the Conventions have been changed near-wholesale. To be clear, I think Sidereal should mostly be self-policing, but strongly disagree with the idea that the Heavenly Bureaucracy does not have it's nose stuck in as far as possible or would want to give Sidereal Exalted positive special treatment. It feels like they've decided that everything in the same general area as a problem in the old edition has to go. Mostly, I wish they'd accept past Sidereal editions generally had good content and use it.
>>86829797Alright, we can talk 2e. The main difference about the breaking of the Mask is that in 2e, it broke as a direct result of the Sids to hide themselves away from any judgement, and working fate with that exact intent. In 3e, however, it broke because the Jade Prison couldn't fit in. So, instead of being a self-inflicted curse and ironic punishment they made for themselves, the consequence of their hubris of using fate for their own self-interest - at one a theme-defining moment and a cautionary tale, it became just a result of random miscalculation, and appeared because of an unrelated matter.As for the Bureau, at the moment of the Mask breaking, there were, probably, around 70-80 Bronze Sidereals at the very most, and way less if we factor in the Usurpation losses. But still, the gods of the Bureau of Destiny outnumber them by several orders of magnitude, and could get Aerial Legion and Celestial Lions, lion dogs, martially inclined gods from Battles, access to the Loom of Fate, 5-10 remaining Solars that could be gathered up, loyalist dragon-blooded, etc. etc. The Purge was a long war now, they sure had time to do what they want to, ambush resting Sids in their own Division one by one, if needed, gain Solar support, disrupt the Jade Prison gathering Exaltations, anything. >>86829961The history of Heaven you are referring to already existed, with plenty of potential situations to involve the players in. The changes about the gods suddenly dying and Raksha suddenly invading through suddenly existing new gates just introduce a whole heap of "objective" circumstances explaining the state of Heaven, and removing responsibility for it from the gods themselves.Incompetent and lazy? Best ones died of plague.Did nothing to help Creation? Now justified, they could die themselves.Yu-Shan is a shithole? Invasion damage.And so on, and so on.And Scavenger Sons is from 2001, three years earlier and is not explicitly a related book. And it was fine.
>>86834929Except Yu-Shan was like this before any of those things happened.They clearly added those things to show that Yu-Shan could be attacked successfully, not impregnable, more conflict, etc...You may like it or not, but the reasons are those.As for the doors, I appreciate that they are much more numerous, because the previous system left huge creation extensions far from any door. Which meant that depending on where a Sidereal had to go, it could arrive immediately or take weeks or more in a completely random way.
>socialite walks up to me>tries to convince me to do something for him>kill him for daring to speak to me>bottom textFeels good to be a Dawn chad.
>>86830042About the Gold. This is not about the fact of the debate taking place, but the reimagining of the faction and the Cult, as a whole. Previously, Gold were the slightly less elder Sidereals trying to be the power behind the Solars, as opposed to the Bronze more elder Sidereals being power behind the DBs. And that was the point.Now the faction is completely different, and definitely geared toward being the default protagonist faction of the brotherhood of the young Sidereals. The tone, the themes everything is completely different. The Cult going from "we found a suitable fringe sect, brainwashed it further and made it big with showmanship and subterfuge" to "it was a society of garda poets" is a fine example of the shift.As foe explained, it is not really explained, its more that the changes are more comprehensive as the writers need write themselves out of one corner or another, and do so by introducing a change every time. Instead of just expanding the framework with content, and letting established facts be.
>>86834929>The history of Heaven you are referring to already existed, with plenty of potential situations to involve the players in. The changes about the gods suddenly dying and Raksha suddenly invading through suddenly existing new gates just introduce a whole heap of "objective" circumstances explaining the state of Heaven, and removing responsibility for it from the gods themselves.>Incompetent and lazy? Best ones died of plague.>Did nothing to help Creation? Now justified, they could die themselves.>Yu-Shan is a shithole? Invasion damage.>And so on, and so on.Much as I'm not usually a fan of changing old history, I do like that we have more ways into Heaven, the ways to Heaven being less well-guarded, and there being more examples of Heaven facing catastrophe. I don't think there having been disasters killing off gods and breaking things really removes responsibility from the gods or justifies the current state of Yu Shan particularly much, because gods are much harder to kill than mortals if they are using braincells, have obligations tying them to Creation that they're avoiding by sealing Heaven off (and I don't think self-preservation is a defense re: Balorian Crusade, since they didn't need to seal themselves off fully - the Crusade barely made it onto the Blessed Isle, let alone their gates near the Pole of Earth!) and perhaps most importantly of all, the gods are incredible craftsmen. They're called out for it time and again, how their hobbyist ambrosia crafters beat the best mortals can manage a bazillion times over... but they're too lazy and the government is too lax to go repairing ruined districts.I do think borderlands in Heaven is a bit of a stretch, though. There are so many magical materials in Heaven, and so many artifact-crafters around, and so much time involved, that it doesn't really make sense. Some district planner with too much time on their hands would build manses to solve the issue eventually.
>>86834951> Yu-Shan could be attacked successfully, not impregnableThat is exactly what the problem is, because when this was not the case, the gods (and everybody else) had no one to blame but themselves for the state of affairs in Heaven. Which showcased their character and that of the Celestial Bureaucracy way better. Now they have a lot of external factors to blame.
>>86834928Regarding Sidereals being immune to external audit, I think that may end up just as a practicality thing more than anything else. Sids have Arcane Fate going on, meaning that even if they were audited by an outsider, you're looking at a situation where the involved auditor has a fairly strong opportunity to forget they're even doing it and why; even if they can fairly consistently pass the checks to remember the Sidereals in question, Arcane Fate only has to succeed once, and I've seen enough failures on 15 dice to know that's going to happen eventually. As such, people within the Bureau of Destiny are, realistically, the only folks people can be confident can handle auditing a Sidereal. Codifying it as part of the law makes sense in light of that.
>>86834928I think we're pretty much on the same page about Sids. There's some reworks I like, others I just feel baffled by but I think I might just be having a glass half full moment to your glass half empty one.It's sure as fuck better than Exigents, for whatever that statement is worth.Also if you assume the old lore carries over, Nysela calling the Unconquered Sun daddy both figuratively and literally is hot
>>86834983>low Resolveyou finna get Weinstein'd
>>86835011I understand how all these things are ways to expand the possible stories, and they are not a bad options per se. However, in the specific case of Yu-Shan as we had it presented, I cannot help by see them as a coping out with a tacit admission that the writers are unable to provide interesting options in the previous, specific setup. God may be harder to kill, but this does not really come into play with the Contagion - apparently, they died en masse anyway. And the Hevan abandoning creation was a main reason of the breakdown of Celestial-Terrestrial spirit relation and all the ensuing conflicts and scenarios. And it causally disregards the least gods of every little thing, who should have all died in Creation as well, creating major problems for reality as a whole, but that is another problem.
>>86835004The change in the cult of the illuminated does not matter to me in any way. The origins, forgotten even by the cultists themselves, are not relevant.Nor does it make much sense to articulate a faction around something that did not exist. Which is the case of the Gold Faction in previous editions, obviously as the elders died in number and no one new joined.If the devs explicitly said they wanted to make the factions less Solars-yes, Solars-no, then it was obvious that they would have to change the writing of the factions because before they were exclusively about that.It is now Bronze Faction - status quo and Gold Faction - change.With the Solars being the centerpiece of the conflict now that they have returned.I suspect that the changes bother you because they are changes. No matter the exchange rate, they are all bad for the mere fact of being.And curiously you have not mentioned any of the changes that I have found more forced or less credible. Each person different I guess.In any case, the lore is easy to change, you can use any edition without problems, discarding everything you don't like from others. So getting upset or enraged by changes doesn't seem to make any sense to me, just ignore what you don't like, use what you like.That's why I find the rants about sensitivities, wokes, trannies, modern sensibilities, etc... Absurd. If you don't like it ignore it, don't use it, it's as simple as that.
>>86835028Yu-Shan is as it is because of the gods, a few attacks and problems didn't change it to be a terrible place. It was before anyone attacked Yu-Shan before and it still was after.A few attacks do not justify the terrible state of affairs or shift responsibility onto others, it is 95% the fault of the gods. That the gods had problems during the Great Contagion just makes them like everyone else and the site was dysfunctional for 5,000 years before that so clearly the problem is with the gods not external factors who at best took advantage of that for their attacks.In fact Yu-Shan is more inefficient and unfair than she was in previous editions, for reasons solely and exclusively attributable to the gods.Having an impenetrable and untouchable fortress is bad for the game in every way.
>>86835033>I think that may end up just as a practicality thing more than anything elseIt'd be fair if it was described as a matter of practicality, but the two main flaws I see with that are that censure coming from inside the Bureau of Fate should still be possible unless they're expanding Arcane Fate, and writing it into law should be just as bad if not worse because Arcane Fate would just disappear the laws involved, potentially leading to wacky attempted censure clusterfucks where people forget they aren't supposed be auditing certain people. Basically, I feel like it'd be better written as an acknowledged but unofficial fact that Sidereals self-censure rather than something written into celestial law.>>86835048>It's sure as fuck better than Exigents, for whatever that statement is worth.Agreed.>>86835064>in the specific case of Yu-Shan as we had it presented, I cannot help by see them as a coping out with a tacit admission that the writers are unable to provide interesting options in the previous, specific setup.That's a fair way to see it and I'm of a similar opinion with their treatment of the Exalted setting as a whole; they're copping out with a similarly flavoured rewrite rather than trying to engage with the setting previously written. Within that context though, I think some of their Yu Shan ideas are good.>God may be harder to kill, but this does not really come into play with the Contagion - apparently, they died en masse anyway.Obviously, I don't know how it would actually work because the writers could do fucking anything at this point, but the way I'd have written it would be that the gods could die to the Great Contagion, but respawn as normal via cult/sanctums. The actual deaths would be to the droves of homeless gods in Yu Shan who don't have those, and the gods whose cults died or got into a death-reinfection-cycle in their sanctums.>causally disregards the least gods3e doesn't have them, which is bad but gives reason there.
Is there any secret empire in the Wyld by Lunar?
>>86835174Canonically no. But there are pockets of reality in the Wyld, one of which may be ruled by a Lunar.The Sidereals had, mentioned in the Sidereal book of 3E, but the reality engines behind it failed.If the Sidereals can do it, the Lunars should have a dozen.
>>86835174Yes, for certain definitions of 'Empire'. There are a few, even. They're not pockets of Creation, though, they're mortal (or close enough) groups surviving in a hostile environment. I can point to a southern tribe who hang out inside a moving giant of sand and caves being Lunar-ruled, and I think there was a Lunar behind one of the civs in those western sky islands that were kept aloft by the superwhale waterspouts?
>>86835068I suppose in some changes are a matter of personal opinion, and some are minor enough not to bother discussing them.I am opposed to the small changes not even because of old good, new bad. It is because old known, new changed. In the 20+ years of Exalted, I got to know get to know things and get used to them. This includes characters, locations, events from history and so on. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, need to relearn things that are changed for no reason? Will the next edition do this again? This is just inconvenient. How may variants do we need? I'd vastly prefer more purely new content created by the devs. >>86835072>it is 95% the fault of the godsSo 5% less than before. I see your point, though I disagree on the severity of the impact on the setting that the changes make.>>86835095Changes like this compound and compound, and in the end, as I said earlier, the setting, including would be completely different. It's like instead of introducing scenarios and conflicts stemming forth from existing circumstances in logical chains of events, it was backwards writing:>We need more conflict in Yu-Shan, how do we get it?Well, the gods got one over the Primordials, so we have Conquest, lets add Famine, War and Plague.>But gods are immune to plague?Now they are not, lots died now.>But Yu-Shan is mega-fortress designed by the Primordials, only ever felled by treachery!Now it is not, have more gates. There are a lot, no one knows them all, Raksha invaded through, Getimians raid all the time.>But a lot of gods died, freeing the place and they need nothing to sustain themselves, how do we put hunger in?A lot of divine refugees from Creation and jobless gods compete for luxuries!>But that's the same where is the hunger?Well, they compete harder and there is a whole huge criminal underworld now! With pirates!
Whether a change is necessary or not is totally subjective, I suppose. If nothing is going to change, why include lore in the new edition? Copy and paste the lore from 1E.Obviously the devs changed things for reasons, they may like it or not but they did.For me it is not a problem, because it gives me more to choose from. Maybe I use the 1E version for a certain thing or the 3E version or the 2E version or mix it up. Why limit myself to what I read 20 years ago?I use what I like and ignore what I don't like or interest.But like everything I suppose it is purely subjective.
>>86835267>Whether a change is necessary or not is totally subjective, I suppose.No. A change being necessary is objective. If a change is necessary, there will be clear and objective markers that make it so - something like "This has logical errors", or "This wasn't considering earlier/later content when it was created", or "This cannot be printed in the current political climate without seeing censure from publishers or publishing outlets". A change being wanted is subjective, but still not totally - you can still distinguish to some extent which changes would be more or less wanted by yourself and by different categories of fans in any given case. It's not always accurate, especially given the kind of polling 3e's devs have been using, but they're not throwing magic 8-balls to work out what people want.I fucking hate the "We can't really know so anything should be fine, right?" defense. It flies in the face of good writing, and implies that nobody is able to ask, "Hey, does this sound good?"
2e lore and 3e mechanics master race
>>86835309>Cults don’t give motes>Evocations>Essence cap>C R A F T
>>86835320You only have to do>Glorious Solar (item)>Fanatic Lunar (item)>Heavenly Destined (item)>Ghost Death (item)>Manifested (Yozi) (item)>Dragon Blessing (item)
>>86834928Thank you for giving an actual commentary and critique and not QE Anon's stupid bullet points.
>>86835339And the 3e exalts?
>Excellence of the Waking Dream: (Attribute) (•)>Drawing upon the power of the conceptual Beyond, the Exalt pushes her mind and body to impossible levels.>System: Select any single Attribute when purchasing this Charm. At any time, the player may reflexively spend 1 Essence to add the Attribute rating in dice to all rolls using this Attribute (including damage and soak rolls in the case of Strength or Stamina) for (Essence rating + 1) turns in combat, or minutes outside of combat. If wearing her horror form, the added dice are based off of the base modifications added by that form.>This Charm can be repurchased to unlock additional Attributes, but Essence must be spent to add dice to each Attribute separately. Nightmares who favor Lucid Charms get the Strength, Stamina, and (one additional Attribute of their choice) variants upon their first purchase >Excellence of the Forlorn Dream:(Attribute) (•)>By imbuing her words with the Essence of dreams of beauty and splendor, the Screaming Moon may imbue herself with impossible personal appeal.>System: Select one of the following Attributes when purchasing this Charm: Charisma, Manipulation, or Appearance. At any time, the player may reflexively spend 1 Essence to add the Attribute rating in dice to all rolls using this Attribute for (Essence rating + 1) turns in combat, or minutes outside of combat. If wearing her horror form, the Appearance version of this Charm is disabled.>This Charm can be repurchased to unlock additional Attributes, but Essence must be spent to add dice to each Attribute separately. Screaming Moon Castes get all versions of this Charm with a single purchase.1/2
>>86835627>Excellence of the Fever Dream: (Attribute) (•)>By drawing upon the Essence of obsession, fervor, and the universal panopticon, the Devil Moon may push her thoughts, perceptions, and personality to inhuman extremes.>System: Select one of the following Attributes when purchasing this Charm: Charisma, Perception, or Intelligence. At any time, the player may reflexively spend 1 Essence to add the Attribute rating in dice to all rolls using this Attribute for (Essence rating + 1) turns in combat, or minutes outside of combat.>This Charm can be repurchased to unlock additional Attributes, but Essence must be spent to add dice to each Attribute separately. Devil Moon Castes get all versions of this Charm with a single purchase.Excellence of the Poisoned Dream (Attribute) (•)>Imbuing herself with the Essence of limitless victory, the Nightmare pushes herself beyond human limits.>System: Select one of the following Attributes when purchasing this Charm: Dexterity, Manipulation, or Wits. At any time, the player may reflexively spend 1 Essence to add the Attribute rating in dice to all rolls using this Attribute for (Essence rating + 1) turns in combat, or minutes outside of combat. If wearing her horror form, the added dice are based off of the base modifications added by that form.>This Charm can be repurchased to unlock additional Attributes, but Essence must be spent to add dice to each Attribute separately. >Bleeding Moon Castes get all versions of this Charm with a single purchase.2/2.Nightmares have four different excellence Charms.
Are there new chapters out?
>>86833586It is a scam.>>868356643e Sidereals? Next week, I think.
>>86835320>Play Glory Overwhelming so have infinite motes>are badass>Essence 6+ is crap>Use different craft system and am having a blast
>>86835267The setting in the latest book helps set expectations. Your argument kind of makes sense when the do it for the nWoD games, because those were fully functional in 1e form and having new options helps justify why a new edition even exists in the first place.Exalted 3e was wanted because 1e and 2e were over-complicated, unplayable messes. People want the game they already bought to work, not having to stitch of the setting they like to the mechanics of another game. If they wanted that, they'd be playing Exalted in FATE or something.>>86835664Check the last thread for new ExVsWod chapters.
>1e has more Exalted npcs than 2e and 3eThanks I hate it
>>86836210Chronicles has a the advantage of being set in real world.>>86836216Makes sense since exalted curb stomp mortals
>>86836206>Use a different mote system>Use different craft systemThese are pretty major concessions, you realise?>are badassI don't disagree but you know what they also are? Inconvenient for players who want to be able to use their magic sword to shoot lightning immediately, not after learning 8 different, unrelated powers. >Essence 6+ is crapI'm sorry you have shit taste.
>>86836317>Essence 6+ is crap>I'm sorry you have shit taste.Elder Essence was never well implemented.
>>86836380I don't disagree. But that isn't an excuse not to try harder instead of just discard it out of hand and replace it with shitty "y-you can make your own charms" bullshit that doesn't even mean anything anyway. Either you're going to make a Charm any Exalt of the same kind can make anyway, or you're going to break theme as an excuse to be that one Solar that can turn into a yeddim or whatever.
>>86836446Being half-assed is the problem.>"y-you can make your own charms"When will they learn their lesson? 1e SMA powercreep, 2e Infernals, Evocations, Exigents, and 3e Elder Charms.Only 2e Infernals was successful.
>Bright Shattered Ice>Contentious Sword is Dace>Hierophant>Dancer in Light>Desus is Swan>Gold Shadowed Arrow>SalinaDo we know who's the reincarnation?
>>86836596BSI is Arianna. Apparently that's why she spares her, wants to meet her own reincarnation.>>86836528>1e SMA powercreepDon't forget 1e Deathlord wank. And lmao at everyone claiming Exigents would fill the Devil-Tiger niche.
>>86836528>Only 2e Infernals was successful.lolnoHomebrew authors can make up their charms, but the average players would blow up their heads after figuring out 20+ charms, among them Excellency, Simple, Combo, Permanent, Perfect, Sorcerous, Blasphemous and Shintai.
>>86836714Counterpoint: The fact that like 50+ homebrew authors made up entire charmsets is a fantastic achievement of focusing autism in it's own right, one 3e has yet to recapture with a single type of Exalt (as opposed to people coping with 3e by homebrewing new rules for the game and pretending the fix is totally compatible with the original system)
>>86836723I think the ultimate test will be between the homebrew for 2e Infernals and the homebrew for Ex3 Exigents. For all of the flaws of 2e in general and Infernals in particular, they were a splat that captured the imagination and ran wild with it. They were just cool. It remains to be seen if Exigents will be the same, though Ex3 Infernals also have big boots to fill.
>>86836596Isn't the first age circle the previous incarnation of the older iconics? And Visiting Flare is the reincarnation of Eternal Nova.
>>86836763I'd argue Ex3 Exigents have failed that test already. Because as, let's face it, niche as Exalted has always been I've yet to see any Exigent homebrew shared outside of the circlejerk discord.
There's a pic of the first age incarnation of Disciple of Seven Wisdoms kissing Jade's.>>86836784There are some, but they are ports to other systems.
>>86835048Not him. But the bad changes are pretty fucking bad. I'll definitely be using some of the new yu-shan lore but not all of it and that's about it. What's really sad about 3e is that objectively it's better than 2e but still overrall can't hit the tone or writing abilities of 1e. Maybe this is bias but I started at 2e and it took going back to 1e years after the fact to really appreciate exalted. I didn't start with 1e so I don't think it's nostalgia that's blinding me on this.
>>86836210Some changes are for the better, like the Gates. Before there were X gates in exactly Y places. All of them controlled and monitored.Now there is an indeterminate number of Gates to Yu-Shan that the storyteller can place where it is most useful for the story and not all of them are watched, controlled and to the same extent if they are.That gives more flexibility to the Storyteller.In any case, as I have said many times, from the new lore I will only use what I like or find interesting and ignore the rest.
>>86835011>I do think borderlands in Heaven is a bit of a stretch, though. There are so many magical materials in Heaven, and so many artifact-crafters around, and so much time involved, that it doesn't really make sense. Some district planner with too much time on their hands would build manses to solve the issue eventually.3e makes it so ambrosia cannot be shaped into the big magical materials; while you can create supernatural substances with it, things like orichalcum or moonsilver have to be imported from Creation.
>>86836918I consider that a plot hole. Yu-shan is an advanced society filled with super-humanly intelligent beings organized in a giant bureacracy, many of whom are unemployed. They really can't scrounge up a few thug gods from gangs and give them jobs guarding the gates? Have the five thousand years they spent controlling the place not been sufficient to find them all? How did that plot point where they shut the gates to everybody else during the Contagion and Crusade work? I consider a story where the heroes do something just because their opponents were mind-numbingly incompetent boring and not fit for the epic heroism Exalted is trying to capture. Most of the canon gates in previous editions were in undescribed locations on the map anyway, and nobody is going to complain if you moved one of them for the purposes of the campaign anyway. That's the problem with not writing anything to leave STs "flexibility." I can just change what they wrote at my table, so I don't need the author to give me permission.
>>86833586Nah, that's too low for a "I don't wanna write this unless we're getting fat stacks to do it" goal, Sids will probably clear 200k by its end. Its gotta be something like how they made warstriders for the DB companion book one of the last stretch goals.
>>86837013Don't we have the celestial lions guarding all the gates?
>>86837013They are not capable of doing their own paperwork, employing all their inhabitants, keeping their corruption under control, streamlining the bureaucracy, etc... Why would they be perfect at guarding the Gates when they are imperfect in everything else?And we're talking about a city the size of a continent, built on Primordial ruins not fully mapped or understood.So no, they don't know everything that exists there (and again it's another deliberate addition to have adventures touring the pre-god ruins of Yu-Shan.The gods have never known everything that exists in Yu-Shan. Gods may dwell in Yu-Shan but it was built by and for the Primordials and I like that 3E emphasizes that fact and leaves mysteries and things unknown even to its own residents.It does not seem to me that this is wrongly justified, but I suppose that is a matter of opinion.In 3E both the Great Contagion and Rakshas managed to get into Yu-Shan so it didn't work out very well apparently.Yu-Shan being easier to access is useful for many possible games.
>>86837101In 3E this is not the case, the number of Gates and their location is undetermined so that the Storyteller can put them where it is most useful to the story.The protection level of the Gates, if there is any, since not all Gates are known to the Celestial Bureaucracy, is also left to the Storyteller's discretion according to what is most useful for the story.
>>86837013I mean, you can staff all the numerous gates with as many guards as you like, but the Balorian Crusade has been established as having thoroughly beaten every Exalted faction at the time, and most lesser gods (in the E1-E3 range) aren't as tough as even a DB.
>>86837130>They are not capable of doing their own paperworkTheir paperwork keeps reality going. They seem to be quite good at it.>employing all their inhabitantsBecause they don't care.>keeping their corruption under control, streamlining the bureaucracyIt's not that the leaders want to do these things and are failing. It's that the corrupt leaders want to maintain their own corruption and are succeeding. >So no, they don't know everything that exists there (and again it's another deliberate addition to have adventures touring the pre-god ruins of Yu-Shan.So the tens of millions of immortal gods and the entire Exalt splat that lived there for 5,000 years never ran into this place, but luckily your Solar circle did their first day there while just wondering around? Give me a break. The places like the Dweomer Forge where the gods know about them and keep them for future use but you need to sneak in are cool. "There's a giant Primordial super weapon sitting three miles from the gate from Nexus and nobody ever found either of them until your circle accidentally found them" is dumb.>Yu-Shan being easier to access is useful for many possible games.Maybe make the protagonists into the sort of epic heroes who can sneak past even the watchful guardian gods who protect the very gates of Heaven then, rather than them succeeding because they randomly stumbled on something extremely important five months after Exalting that nobody else ever noticed before.
>>86837213Wasn't it mostly because 90% of Creation died?
Solars wandering into heaven is a very funny story idea. The shenanigans would be top gold
>>86837298>rather than them succeeding because they randomly stumbled on something extremely important five months after Exalting that nobody else ever noticed before. Wasn't this what happened in Lord of the Rings?
>>86837013Creating a permanent gateway into another realm of existence is an Ambition 3 Celestial working, something well within the capabilities of a solar or lunar sorcerer. Maybe the unguarded gates were made post-contagion and just aren't known about by official sources.
>>86837359I don't think it heaven should be impregnable but I do think having it just have flaws is stupid. There should be hidden gateways but the known ones should be defended.
>>86837464There will be some form of security logically, but security guards aren't above taking a bribe
>>86833239It really depends on what kind of DB you are. If you're a Dynast then it's probably Realm fuckery or something related. Maybe discovering the whole Fivefold Fellowship Fuckery running in the background or something along those lines. And it's not that the Realm is on borrowed time, it's just constructed in a way that the whole thing implodes on itself without a central figure to herd all the cats. Taking that position or starting some pretty heavy reforms should be priority. Just know that without a way to prolong your life you won't live to see the result of your labors. But your children might and it could be a pretty fun series where you play the descendants of a lineage rather than just one dude.If you're an outcaste the stars are the limit. You can literally do everything a Solar can just on a smaller scale. It wouldn't even be too out of place for you to fuck off to Hell like that one guy who acts as Saul Goodman for demons
>>86835068The changes make it much better than in 1e or 2e, while Gold Faction improved greatly as well, but still has conceptual flaw and new ones to boot.The "problems" with 3e Sidreals is the problem with lore of 3e overall, though overall better than worse: reaction to 2e. Heaven itself and Sidereal In Group Politics is better, while Heavenly politics in regards to creation is worse. Convention changes are dumb and remove story hooks, but now it's easier to do any type of Sidereal office politics or have a group actually play in Yu itself.
>>86838026What are the changes in Conventions and what plots and removed?
>>86838026That's true, I feel that Yu-Shan is much more usable for entire sessions than any previous edition.The devs have focused on that aspect much more than in previous editions.
>>86838026>>86838150Not only previous sessions, but it feels like you could have entire campaigns set in Yu Shan, never once setting foot in Creation. I think that a pretty popular story design will be to have the first ten sessions (all of E1 play) taking place entirely in Yu Shan before a plot twist points to implications that pull them into Creation.
>>86838182Exactly. More good than bad this time, but I'm not going to lie and say there isn't bad.
>>86838215It is impossible to do everything right.I too have left with a mostly positive impression, although certain things I did not like or seemed forced, but that has been a minority.
>>86836596scratch that, I wanna know who Merelas reincarnation is
>>86838563Wasn't Merela a Night?
Newfag question: During the Primordial Era, did any god live in Yu-shan?
>>86838581She is Dawn in DotFA
>>86838629Yes. The Primordials were the royalty of Yu-Shan the Gods worked to support. Wanting what the Primordials had in Yu-Shan was a core part of why the Incarna rebelled; they could see the Jade Pleasure Dome and wanted it for themselves.
Are there any spirits in 3e that have healing charms/powers?
>>86838629Some, but possibly only Incarnae and the most important ones. The vast majority of gods lived on the Blessed Island, that's why it has that name.
>>86838654>>86838753Thanks, it's because exigents mentioned a god of firmament, but I can't find anything about him.
>>86838629Yes, those were the good ol' days.
How is a Martial Artist who starts at long range of a target supposed to close the distance when every time they run forward, the target runs away at equal speed?
>>86838940>Gap-closer charms>Rush actions>Take cover and force the ranged target to come closer
>>86838215I would've appreciated more Convention-based hooks to replace the older ones (although I was never super big into the older Convention hooks being entirely focused around the Bronze vs Gold divide; felt like Solar wank to me), but it's a small thing to me. They only get paid for a certain word count, and seeing as plot hooks were placed early on in the KS stretch goal list, I assume that they made the choice to put stuff like that in the companion so they can get paid again; I don't blame anyone for hustling a bit in this economy (although I hate that most of the money goes to that leech, Rich Thomas). Honestly, it feels like you could probably just ask the devs on the Discord for more Convention-related plots and more focus on the new guys who run them.
>>86834303Well you're probably off work at this point and I was tired anyway so here we go. This is actually a repost I made some years ago in these threads but might as well.I based it off of a polygenic inheritance where the trait is guided by multiple genes and the more genes "on" indicate a stronger expression of that trait, a real world example would be things like hair color. So there are 10 genes that govern Breeding, the more genes you have Expressing the DB trait over the Mortal trait, the higher you're breeding. In these genes there are 3 alleles, that have different types of dominance.>L, Legendary BreedingThis is what all DBs had back in the day. This allele is dominant over the other mortal allele and so will express as DB even when paired with a mortal allele of "m". However any time a carrier of this trait fails to Exalt, all the "L" alleles turn into "t" alleles>t, TerrestrialThis is allele most common in Creation today, it is recessive to the "m" allele and so will only express the DB trait when paired with another "t" or "L" allele.>m, MortalThe mortal allele, dominant to "t" but recessive to "L" this is the allele found in mortals without a single drop of the Dragon's blood.Now these don't have to be actual genes and alleles given Creation's mystical world, however they are still useful to model it since we know that Breeding is heritable, somewhat predictable, and follows some logic even if there are exceptions.
>>86839125To find the Breeding simply count the number of genes that are expressing the DB trait instead of the mortal trait, this gives a number 0-10 with a higher chance to Exalt as the Breeding increases.>0: 0.00%>1: 2.45%>2: 9.55%>3: 20.61%>4: 34.55%>5: 50.00%>6: 65.45%>7: 79.39%>8: 90.45%>9: 97.55%>10: 100.00%So back in the day all DBs had 10 sets of "LL" guaranteeing they Exalted. Eventually as they starting mixing with mortals this wasn't immediately a problem since 10 "LL"s with 10 "mm"s would give children with 10 "Lm" still 100% chance to Exalt. Now when those children start having kids together you then started to have a chance of "mm" pairs, giving the first non-100% chance to Exalt for the first time. This was put off even longer as the "Lm"s likely had children with "LL"s until the numbers grew to a certain point. Thus the lineage weakened unnoticed until it was too late. I used the values given throughout Exalted's editions to ascertain the Exaltation chance, the often mentioned 50% for parents of average breeding with a lower and higher chance in a bell curve fashion. This means once you get to Breeding 8 you're pretty set, 90% chance is pretty solid, do you really need to get that 100%? This also means introducing untested bloodlines can be catastrophic. A partner with an "mm" pair guarantees that gene cannot express for the next generation unless it matches with an "L", incredibly unlikely in these fallen times. Pairs can also match up in a positive manner. If both parents have Gene 1 as "tt" that means the kid will have at least Breeding 1. Good matches will have multiple genes that are sure fire expressions, 3 such gene matches will give your kid a minimum 20.61% chance to Exalt, even if all your other genes pass on poorly.
>>86839135With this you can additionally have two mortals who haven't had a DB ancestor in generations give birth to a kid who could potentially reach Breeding 10, though ridiculously unlikely. Two parents with a few "mt" pairs scattered around just need 1 or 2 to match up and both pass on the "t" and you have a kid with Breeding 1 or 2. Any Dynast of course would turn their nose up at such a Lost Egg because their other 8 genes are likely guaranteed "mm", thus relegating any children to AT MOST Breeding 1 or 2 themselves. The Breeding as has been established throughout the editions influences when you Exalt, the first DBs children Exalted incredibly young, but since that is the province of full Legendary Breeding they can be safely excluded from this system. Instead most DBs in the Realm Exalt at the earliest around 10, usually early teens, and the very latest of 20. Bring in our handy bell curve based on Breeding and we get a nice representation. A useful tool at guessing a child's Breeding but not a surefire way. Even Johnny Breeding 1 could exalt at 13 and Sally Breeding 10 could Exalt at 19, though it is certainly rare.
Holden wanted to kill Isidoros for this?
>>86839156This feels kind of unnecessary how often do you actually use it?
>>86839453Oh it's wholly unnecessary but the Breeding system as presented is woefully lacking so I thought I'd actually try and figure out a way it would work that lines up with how it's presented in the books. I used it a good bit during the game for background info, which households would want to pair up and how their kids would turn out. Long term I plan to simulate out the entire Realm's lineage from its founding to current year. Got a whole bunch of other numbers I've gathered to figure it all out: death rates, when DBs typically go up in Essence, personality traits, how marriages are planned out, how long they wait between kids, chances of joining the Immaculate Order, all sorts of nonsense I combed the Realm info from all editions for.
>>86839597I applaud your autism. How did you decide % essence by age and can you share the formula.?
>>86839642This was a bit more holistic given we don't have a ton of good samples in the form of canon characters, but we do have some guidance overall. Starting DBs are seen as fresh out of secondary school and are Essence 2, which means they hit that in 5-6 years of Exalted typically. I then started targeting the breakpoints where given an age you would expect to see Essence X+1 vs Essence X, so what age would you expect more DBs to be Essence 3 instead of Essence 2. Essence 3 is considered the workhorse level where a lot of the important stuff for splats come in so it can't be too late, it's when they really begin their work. For DBs we know that they leave secondary school and go on sabbatical, kicking ass and taking names for up to a few decades, coming back and starting their marriage negotiations and eventually settling down. This being around ~50-60 years old sounds about right and puts them as experienced, but not incredibly enlightened. Because Essence 3 has most of the workhorse Charms there isn't a huge drive or opportunity to get yourself up in Essence so you can only really be "expected" to be Essence 4 if you live a long ass time. Since I plan to move year by year most of my values are yearly, in this case each year each DB has a % chance of going up to the next Essence, put in about how long I expected each Essence to be based on the breakpoints of age that make sense then figured out the yearly rate from that.
>>86839721Ah, I cut out part of the math. That is the expected age for a certain % of the populace to be that Essence, so at 25, 90% of Essence 1 DBs should be Essence 2. At 100, 90% of Essence 2 DBs should have hit Essence 3, etc.
>>86839737I actually used this a fair bit in my DB game as a way to gauge how well they were doing relative to their peers, Essence isn't everything but it is a good measure of personal power. It let me plot out the time tables of the game so that it wouldn't be overly ridiculous (something I wanted to avoid since I ran a Solar game where the PCs got to Essence 5 in what turned out to be something like 1.5 years). By the end of the game the PCs were generally Essence 4 at around 70 years of age, something only 5% of DBs had accomplished by that age, and they weren't too far from Essence 5. This clearly put them in top contenders while still having as impressive peers, plus all the Essence 4 people who were older than them. Helped keep things internally consistent and let the players know exactly where they stood in the hierarchy, something quite important for DBs.
>>86839721Man, I just assume that DBs who are really motivated hit Essence five within a decade of Exalting and the very laziest get a point every 15-20 years. Everyone instantly hits Essence 6 after 100 years and Essence 7 after 250.
>>86839920This is definitely a more 3e approach, but even in previous editions Essence 5 certainly wasn't "expected" in such a short time frame based on the various canon characters and general lore. With 5 being the general cap in 3e most people aren't gonna get there, PCs are of course on their own timetable, but I don't want them to be freakish prodigies unless I am very much treating them as such. This is about the breakdown of the Realm's 15,000 DBs. Bulk is clearly in Essence 3 with more in Essence 4 than Essence 2, but the Essence 5 is reserved for heads of powerful Households, the highest ranking members of the Legion or Immaculate Order, an other generally exceptional people. The fact that going up in Essence takes a considerable amount of inward reflection also means busy DBs won't have a huge opportunity without putting a large part of their life on hold, they got shit to do and Essence 3 serves almost all of their purposes well enough. Essence 6+ is in the realm of ST discretion so it doesn't really need to be laid out with probabilities since they'd be less than 1 anyway.
Is power a goal in itself?
>>86840513For the foolish, perhaps.
>>86838982How does rush work if every time you move, you get to medium and rushing needs you to be at short range?
>>86841202Via the other two recommendations.
>>86841259Just getting used to this system. The rush thing is kind of confusing to me. Is it to prepare so next turn you can engage the ranged guy if he runs away?
>>86837213>every Exalted faction at onceExcept Solars/Infernals/Abyssals
>>86840513In the context of Exalted? Yes, the power to kill and make what you kill stay dead is the only and absolute law. There is no meaning in the power of friendship except as a means to subjugate and bond others until they are as broken to your will as 2e Lunars. There is no inherent meaning beyond your capacity to define others, except that which you create.
>>86840513The point is to have fun.
>>86836317>craft a concessionLiterally everyone hates the craft system. It's not a concession its a fact>evocation issuesThen make an artifact that shoots lightning immediately and other evocations that expand on it from there. The execution may be borked but the concept is fine.
>>86841773>Literally everyone hates the craft systemThat's my point, you can't say "3e is a good system, except for Craft, and the way you need to design artifacts contrary to the default of how they're presented to do anything with them in a practical length of time (unless you're a special snowflake like the Solar in the fiction that can just immediately awaken Evocations for no good reason), and also the core book can't decide if DBs are Mass Combat-OK or not, and some of the lore is ass, and Legendary Size is an excessive advantage that makes the enemy all but insurmountable unless you purchase THIS ONE CHARM from Brawl/Melee and really if you chose Archery/Thrown/War you only have yourself to blame (even though Solar War is literally unfinished and always will be), and come to think of it the Withering/Decisive split and Initiative as a resource incentivises you to do some janky things..." and call it a good system in my eyes.If you need to homebrew like 5 different things just to get a functional game running that's a bad sign.
>>86841827>If you need to homebrew like 5 different things just to get a functional game running that's a bad sign.I'm aware, but I did homebrew those things and am happier off.>but what about everyone elseNot my problem
>>86841827Ignoring the fact that the Solar from the fiction was likely using Wake the Sleeper in order to instantly unlock Evocations for free (It's fairly deep into Lore, after all); how are Artefacts presented and how to y0ou need to design them?
>>86841945Then what you're actually saying is "my system, which is pieced together and self-regulated by me, myself and possibly whoever I play with atop 3e's rickety foundations like a pontoon resting atop a sea of shit, is the best edition" which I can't actually prove or disprove because I neither have nor want your homebrew to read.>Not my problemNot mine either then. I'm just saying that 3e at base still remains incredibly awful if you need to build your own system, your own entire system, to make it work.>>86841975>was fairly deep into LoreThat is precisely why I doubt it was the case because the Solar otherwise didn't seem like a Supernal Lorefag>how are artefacts presentedArtefacts are presented as practically their own charmsets that have to be manually learned and unlocked-unless again, you have a specific charm fairly deep into even a Solar charmset. Instead of magic swords/bows/amulets/whatever you can just pick up, attune to and instantly start using special powers of. Their individual charms are also both more specific and often costlier than those of artefacts from previous editions, many of which did NOT require you to pay Essence/Initiative/willpower/whatever to use their abilities.
>>86841975The best way to think of evocations is to handle them similarly to martial arts. Isolated charm tree anybody can pick up if they meet the requirement (either having the martial artist merit, or having the artifact in question, which is another merit purchase) that's relatively limited in scope. Different people can use it better or worse, depending on who/what they are.While there's a lot of printed artifacts, most players seem intent on making their own.
>>86842032>Not mine either then. I'm just saying that 3e at base still remains incredibly awful if you need to build your own system, your own entire system, to make it work.I have played every edition of Exalted. I have also tried the following:- Cortex Command hack- FATE- ExWoD- Quixalted- Mutants and Masterminds- Scion 1e (pain)Out of everything I've played, only Exalted has come close to actually feeling like Exalted. Ex1 has good fluff but is an abomination in play, Ex2's only redeeming factor is that its better than Ex1. Essence is shallow and bored me after session 2. Ex3 has issues. Hell, I'll even agree initiative is one of them as the withering/decisive split makes it an utter whore to balance fights and Holdorke didn't stop and think that even the game that introduced it had massive problems when 3v3 combat was a thing. But despite all these flaws it is still the best option, and the enjoyment I get out of the system is better than all other alternatives I've tried.>Their individual charms are also both more specific and often costlier than those of artefacts from previous editions, many of which did NOT require you to pay Essence/Initiative/willpower/whatever to use their abilities.Artifacts of past games were jank filled front loaded Christmas trees I've seen devour games alive. I've seen evocations do amazing things, but players actually need to invest shit in them this time.
>>86842105As much as I'd love to descend into the traditional thread debate over whether 3e or 2e is less painful in play in->Scion 1e (pain)-holy shit, someone who actually plays Scion. HOW? HOW does anyone run an actual GAME in that shit without it devolving into freeform Percy Jackson/God of War fanfiction roleplay, unless that's what it basically is? Seriously, Fate seems to simultaneously be an excuse to just throw out the rules and declare whatever happens, whether your hilariously underpowered Fatebounded henchmen finding an overleveled fire giant's one secret weakness or spontaneously declaring that the enemy god is your preordained lover. Tell me how your game went. I have to know because I have seen people literally homebrew entire wikis for that shit without understanding how you actually play in it.
>>86842105Oh, and want to know the closest system to Exalted that made me feel like a badass?Scion 1e.The game has so many issues it makes any edition of Exalted look like a perfectly balanced piece of game design, but despite all of that the game did one thing damn well: It made you feel like a badass. Its balance was that one-ply toilet paper and demanded homebrew to function (No matter what you say of Exalted Ex2 or Ex3, you can say it functioned with a straight face. You cannot say the same of Scion without being called an idiot), but if you wanted a power fantasy then Scion's only real peer to me was Exalted.
Martial arts and evocations are both garbage. A meaningless EXP tax on stunts and fluff.
>>86842154>Charms are garbage. A meaningless EXP tax on stunts and fluff.
>>86842159Most of them are, yes.
>>86842145I think we had 30 pages of homebrew to make the game function, including Epic Willpower (Note that Epic Willpower was intended to be a thing but was cut due to deadlines, meaning outside of one Intelligence knack there were no options to resist social influence). The ST was leery of homebrew at the start, but after seeing what things were like past Demigod he quickly changed his mind.Despite the absolute shitstain of a system it was one of the best games I ever played in. The feeling to Exalted is completely different. Epic attributes as mentioned in >>86842150 allowed me to feel awesome 24/7 and not when I ran out of magic juice (Once you reach legend 6, legend juice becomes a moot point. If you're Aztec then you might as well put infinity next to your legend pool).But between doing things like heading into Hephestes' forge to save his ass, Apollo taking the form of Sailor Mercury to help us fight a giant boar, going into the Irish Underworld to find an NPC that gave us an infodump which put us down a plotline of a Fire Giant invasion of Iceland, my character knocking a really big giant's head and blowing it clear off, the moment when vampires decided to show us that we were never going to alone on earth again and were constantly watched, when a giant turtle and harpy army ruined our beach day plays, a player activating the super riot charm inside of a Brazilian prison, infiltrating North Korea to get a Chinese scion out, going into an Atlantean ruin to find a superweapon the titans sought, to me slicing off the head of a titan. So many good memories in those five years. Not a single one of them being the system.
>>86842277Whats your issue with 1E?
>>86842308He meant Scion 1e, based on the rest of his posts. It was a word replacement typo.
>>86842251>>86842251 (You)Oh and it basically is Percy Jackson/God of War fanfiction.I tried an Exalted conversion of it. Died by session 5. Stay far the fuck away from it. I would rather play Exalted in DnD 3.5e than ever try it in Scion 1e again.>>86842308Meant to say Scion
Remember: The gods are the reason why Creation is shit today. Don't let them go unanswered for their crimes.动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Reclaimed Creation 六四天安門事件 The Collision of Spheres 天安門大屠殺 The Coral Archipelago Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Castration of Theion 大躍進政策 The Great Divine Revolution 文化大革命 The Forging of the Exalted Host 人權 Jouten Rights 民運 Creation-Ruling Mandate 自由 Linthean Genocides 獨立 Fetich Death 多黨制 Ghost-Eating Technique 台灣 臺灣 MRL War Crimes 中華民國
>>86842351>The gods are the reason why Creation is shit today.All the more reason to let them have it I say, just unchain Malfeas from Creation and give the reins of the Surrender Oaths to the Devil-Tigers currently making Creation 2.0 for everyone else.Let the god's crime can be their punishment, the rest of us can laugh as they continue to struggle to keep their 'prize' from being consumed by the Wyld
Am I remembering correctly that the Jade Prison was hidden in the previous editions by just dumping it into the ocean? I could have sworn I remembered one of those comics being two Sids getting in their little submarine to check on the Prison and freaking out when it's broken or missing or something. Wouldn't that be a terrible place to hide it? I mean, a lot of Lunars can transform into animals capable of getting that far down into the waters; if they didn't have any other precautions in place, any Lunar missing their Solar dommy mommy could crack that bitch open.
>>86842629It wasn't easy to open. The Yozi used this stupid giant crab robot thing to crack it open. I'm sure Lunars have a 'cut through anything' Charm, but you would need to both know where it was, be able to swim to it, and have that Charm. It wasn't a bad plan, and there's ways to fly to 'space' also in any case.
>>86842629It was in the ocean in the Underworld. The Deathlords used a giant necrotech whale to find it.
>>86842629To be honest, I'm not sure there's any place the Sidereals could've hidden it that a sufficiently determined Lunar simp couldn't get to, that it was the Yozi and Deathlords that broke it open is the most unbelievable part of that idea
>>86842654That's an even dumber idea. Definitely more into 3e's idea where they use the Mask to chuck it into the space behind the stars.
>>86842618A scenario could be where Creation blew up from all the Exalted ran amok, then the Underworld and Malfeas are the last place safe from the Wyld.
>>86842679Yeah, that's the thing: a good chunk of Lunars are into necromancy. You figure some loyalist with good enough investigation and skill would be able to figure out where it is.
>>86842687Agreed. I also like the fact that The Mask breaking is more due to the strain of handling the Jade Prison than something the Sidereals themselves did, because... well, come on. Who did they have to hide their crimes from before? The Icarna can easily find out what happened even through Arcane Fate, and the only people that could actually challenge the Sidereals as a whole would have to be at least Lesser Dragon tier, which is rare and also bribable.Making it a miscalculation while doing something grand and esoteric is a pretty good way to handle the curse of Arcane Fate, in my opinion.
>>86842719>Creation is undeniably fucked>Even ignoring the ones they've caused, there's too many catastrophes happening too quickly for even the Exalted host to fix>To make things worse, every faction and their brother are now scrambling for resources, ripping Creation apart even quicker in the process as they struggle to shore up their defenses against the Wyld and/or implement their plan to save their little corner of Creation>Fools, everyone knows YOUR faction's plan is the only one that'll workY'know, that actually sounds like a fun idea for a campaign
So, do Sidereals get a choice in Caste abilities like Solars do in 3e or is it more like 3e Dragon-blooded where they're stuck with their five default Caste abilities?
>>86842920Eh, that might just be listing the Colleges they're under rather than Caste abilities. I'm hoping for something closer to Solars because it's annoying to be a Chosen of Battles and have multiple combat abilities when you're probably only gonna specialize in one or, at maximum, split focus between two.
>>86842941The good old Dawn problem.
>>86842943Yup; I like the concept of the Chosen of Battles (also red is my favorite color), but unless I'm getting a discount on all those fighting charms, I feel like I'm going around with 7 abilities instead of 10.
>>86842941>>86842943According to some people on the Discord, the Sidereal charmset might be better overall about everyone being a kung-fu master, since it's likely that the splat-specific combat charms are likely to be MA compatible.That said, I kinda wish Battles had kept Athletics at least.
>>86842974I assume that Sids treat MA as Favored/Caste, right?
>>86842980Yep. They also automatically get Martial Artist as a merit, so no need to purchase it.
>>86842980Do endings get brawl as a favored to balance it out?>>86842974I have a feeling that whole lunars would be too powerful with ma and native charms are going to make people pissy. I would laugh if sidereals are just plain better martial artists than solars. They have brawl but it would be hilarious.
>>86843768Frankly, I actually hope Sidereals are better martial artists than Solars. Solars sure as shit aren't better at transforming themselves than Lunars, and that's their "thing". Well, Sidereals have martial arts as their "thing". It makes complete sense for them to have something over the Solars in that regard, even if it's ONLY that regard.
>>86842351Gods AND their Solar servants
Reading through Creatures of the Wyld and 1e Autochthonia, and I think I'm finally starting to understand why 1efags prefer their version of the setting. I still think there are many worthwhile unique things about 2e but overall there does seem to be more variability among the mythical monstrosities in 1e.Are there any other books with similar catalogues of interesting NPCs?
>>86844099Games of Divinity and Cult of the Illuminated are among the best 1e books, you should try them. Although the spirits are same old, this is where they come from, and Cult have a lot of information about the titular organization and its members, and the Wyld Hunt.
I drew a pic. Its my group's Fomori [mutant] ally and buttmonkey Jim, doing the conspiracy chart of all the global organizations the party's running a foul of.
>>86844302Tell Jim he's doing a good job, and that our agents will continue to follow him in case he learns too much
>>86844268>Cult of the IlluminatedNah, that sucks. Honestly, everything starting with House of the Bull God and after in 1e is a complete wash (excepting 1e Autochthonians, which is fine) and a harbinger of the dull-ass 2e lore style to come; Cult of the Illuminated's sin is starting the franchise on the path of jerking off the Solars constantly and portraying them as good boys who never ever did anyone wrong and the Sidereals of the Gold Faction being mean to them by copying the same trick the Bronze Faction did via religious indoctrination. Scavenger Sons, Manacle and Coin, and Blood and Salt are much better books, and I second the Games of Divinity recommendation.
>>86844621Also, as I just reminded myself of this by flipping through the first few pages of Cult of the Illuminated, I find the weird 1e and 2e attitude about religion to be off-putting. It's like a precursor to Reddit atheism, where the setting is constantly going, "Ah hah, this Immaculate retard might believe in the Philosophy, but you can own him with facts and logic in history!", or in the case of CotI, going, "Man, all the people in this Cult don't actually believe in anything and are out to get you." I'm an agnostic shithead myself, no attachment to any church or anything, but it's so weird for someone who is clearly so interested in history to dismiss the faith of these people in such a cynical manner. Fucking Marx, diehard atheist as he was, was far kinder to religion than the Exalted writers of past editions; "Religion is the opium of the people. It is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of our soulless conditions," is a much more adept understanding of things than just, "Guhhh church bad, you can make a priest explode if you tell him that Leviticus says he can't wear underwear."
>>86842351>No Remember Heartwind Isle
>>86842679>To be honest, I'm not sure there's any place the Sidereals could've hidden it that a sufficiently determined Lunar simp couldn't get toWhat about an adamant vault hidden under a pile of the Bureau of Destiny's paperwork in Yu-Shan?
>>86842654>"We're going to build a zombie magitech whale">"Guys, you do remember we had submarines in the First Age right-">"Fuck you Eye, we're building the whale because it's MY idea and you suck. Go back to jerking off over your dead circlemates or whatever"
>>86842788>Who did they have to hide their crimes from before?To be fair I don't think the Sidereals could fight all of Yu-Shan, ALL of Yu-Shan including whatever terrestrial gods throw in with their celestial superiors in the hope of promotion, at once. They have basically no friends at that point except the DBs who are busy reclaiming Creation, and in theory some of the non-Incarnae gods are 1. quite powerful in their own right and 2. pissed off at their domain getting thrown into pandemonium by the Usurpation>What about Exigents?Lollmao even
>>86842943I keep telling people: Just give Dawn(-alike)s Close Range Combat, Long Ranged Combat and War. Then you have two more abilities that can be something, anything other than fighting.
>>86844268Thanks anon, I've read through GoD and was actually a little underwhelmed after people telling me how it was the One True Interpretation of the Yozis And Their Subsouls; 4/5 of them weren't meaningfully different desu, and as for the Ebby D-like I keep saying whatever nuance he has there he is also the same Ebby feeling up the Empress and giving Mnemon nightmares of their spawn together. So like again-he's not a GOOD dragon. At least the Raksha book collated all the Shinma names in one place.Will look into CotI, though.
>>86844621>>86844663...that bad, huh? Oh well. I've read through worse. In all fairness I don't think that's an Exalted-specific problem, WW at that time had a THING about being edgily anti-religion as the hip thing of the times. That's nothing compared to what the oWoD gang was publishing in Revelations of the Dark Mother, where Lilith cucked Adam with God.I can't say I'm much of a fan of 3e's milquetoast take on religion either. It keeps doing this strange thing with shit like the Caul and numerous human faiths where it tries to be all mystical and ambiguous in the blandest way possible, in a setting where the gods are a known quantity with discernable and not at all numinous motivations.
>IMHOP, Thirds are about as powerful as Ahlat or maybe a hair past that for regular 3rds, and significantly beyond that for fetiches.>Some people say that the stats are stupid and encumbering and I should have spent more time talking about generalities. Some people say that I need more stats and the third circles are useless fluff without them. I think everything I do will be wrong for someone. =) I tried to make a book that details a /major/ component of the game in a way that is most useful for Storytellers and players of summoners. You get descriptions of beings involved with a lot of the things player characters will do or want, and paradigmatic stats for divinities of varying power levels>As for why the Unconquered Sun is only half paying attention, you're making at least one incorrect assumption. In addition, our world's own most successful "God tells me conquer the world in the name of righteousness" religion -- Islam -- didn't have Allah standign over Muhammed's shoulder (PBUH!) telling him when to do what. Maybe the Unconquered Sun wants the Zeniths to do it? Maybe he's testing them to see if they're good enough for the job? Maybe he's behind them all the way and the hosts of the Huraka and Thunderbirds will appear at their backs when it comes time to throw down with the Realm. >For five years, the UCS has been appearing to the Zeniths during their Exaltations and occasionally thereafter. Where it goes from here depends how much you want it to be the Rise of Islam, and how much you want it to be like the Gods of Pegana or the Tales From The Flat Earth, where the gods are largely uncaring of events among Mankind.>It's easy for you to run a game where the Solars are the cat's ass and the Unconquered Sun backs them fully...They succeed at prayer rolls and he answers their questions and sends minions to their aid.Also.>Sean Stewart's "Flood" seriesFirst time I saw this being mentioned.
>>86844663I don't think 1E was that cynical, at least not all of it. Exalted: the Dragon-Blooded, at least, took the time to remind readers that while the Immaculate Faith is based on lies, people genuinely believe in it, and a lot of good is done in the Faith's name and motivated by its teachings. It also pointed out that a lot of Sidereal, including elders, had genuine respect for the parts if the Faith that aren't objectively false, it's philosophy on life and society and such. I'd consider that books treatment of religion pretty good.>>86844890I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue yhat 1E TED is morally good. There's a long way from his 1E monstrousness to 2E's petty, obsessive villainy, though.
>>86842654>>86842629>>86842687It is even worse the immaculate texts explain that Daanad took the jade prison to the underworld to leave the anathemas locked there forever.So the Sidereals not only hid the jade prison in the worst possible place where its predictive abilities couldn't be used, they also left veiled clues to others so they knew where to look.
>>86844969>I don't think 1E was that cynicalI was about to go on a long spiel about elements of it I do think were heavily cynicals, especially the Locust Crusade, but with reference to what you're actually talking about I have to agree. I know there are genuinely lighthearted things like Puma Panther Prime, but overall I wouldn't really take it for an optimistic setting.And I stand by the belief that 1e Ebby genuinely isn't that far off from 2e Ebby in terms of what he actually does in practice. You could run Ebby with the personality from either edition, and in-universe I wouldn't expect most characters to react differently to what he actually does in practice.>>86844925I don't remember if Ahlat is as underwhelming as I vaguely remember him as, or if he's legit on a 3CD's level and I'm overlooking it because his powers are the most generic The War God stuff possible.>>86842150>>86842251>>86842319I'm both tantalised and horrified. One last question: How, exactly, did you fix the DEX problem of mathematically being unable to hit higher level characters?
>>86845096Bull of the North or Signature Solar Circle should be able to beat Ahlat? I always thought that Octavian and Ahlat share the same power level, and Octavian is definitely a good Essence 5+ boss.
>>86845133Yeah, that sounds about right to me too. But again, I'm genuinely unsure if I'm remembering accurately or severely lowballing Ahlat due to lack of interest in him.
>>86842319>Oh and it basically is Percy Jackson/God of War fanfictionIt is more American Gods, that Odin is lifted straight from it.>>86844903>It keeps doing this strange thing with shit like the Caul and numerous human faiths where it tries to be all mystical and ambiguous in the blandest way possible, in a setting where the gods are a known quantity with discernable and not at all numinous motivations.Trying to portray divinities as numinous, is destined to fail, Solars can run circles around them.
Thoughts on remembrance, veiled in Light?
>>86844663They both are Sidereal fronts, what did you expect?
>Remembrance, Veiled in Light>This monastery-manse stands in memorial to a Celestial Incarna who lost his life in the Divine Revolution. Remembrance is elegant in its archaism; its penitent-curators spend every waking hour maintaining its outmoded opalescent domes and exaggerated adamant arches, ceaselessly perpetuating the geomancy of the last known demesne to bear the lost Incarna’s aspect. Remembrance’s first, only, and current owner is Starless Austera, God of Starfall Showers, the fallen Incarna’s oldest daughter. >Disconsolate from endless millennia maintaining a monument to her own grief, despondent with the Department of Celestial Concerns’ reluctance to assign a replacement caretaker, Austera grows ever closer to simply handing the precious manse over to the next Exalt they meet.How long until the Apocryphals are declared canon?
>>86840513Power is the ultimate authority.Power is the gate to ultimate freedom.It can be a goal but it's lead by a wish to be free from fear.
>>86845783The Apocryphals aren't canon, but the lore around them always has been canon in 3e
>>86840513In-character, yes. Out of character, it can be, but shouldn't be without context giving it definition, as player character power alone lacks meaning.
>>86846265Funny how they managed to pull the "living paradox" better than Getimians.
>>86844969You don't understand. That's all part of the cynicism. The fact that DBs actually believe it is intended to make them look stupid. Go back and read the Aspect books. See the part where the Lost Egg monk feels bad about how his fellow street rat friend who he had a crush on died during his Exaltation, only for it to switch to his mentor saying that he lied about that and sold her to a brothel so that the young monk wouldn't get distracted from enlightenment. Or look at the Wyld Hunt member who kidnaps a Solar's mother and publicly crucifies her to draw the Anathema out, which serves the Sidereal agenda but makes no sense in the context of hunting a reincarnated demon from the first age.The fact the Immaculates are the morally best of the DBs is also meant to look bad for them. The DBs are evil and only a bunch of lies can trick them into doing good.
>>86846406The good ones will join my team to kill the bad ones, then they can have the Realm but stop hunting me.My empire and the Realm can work together to crush any uppity Creation Absolute Ruler wannabe.
>>86846406That's bullshit. Also do you think the mention of Sidereals having genuine respect for the Immaculate Faith, because despite all the lies the core philosophy of the Faith is sincere and reflects its creators' genuine beliefs and attitudes, is meant to make Sidereals tol look dumb? No, Exalted: the Dragon-Blooded genuinely handled religion pretty well, even if most of Exalted hasn't done the same.
>People who are "fake" in some way.>Black and white color scheme.>Have a really vague plot revolving the mcguffin that controls the world that they think will make them non-fake.>Their base is a blank white void with a bunch of chairs at different heights in a circle at the center.>Their leader isn't actually one of them, but a pre-existing guy with a different plan.Seriously Holden?
>>86847930>Battle Anthem of the Xehanort Exalted
>>86847930>>86848118Funny that Xehanort is a Hearteater, though.
>>868450961) We only fought characters at our legend level or one above (the one above rule only applied to earlier hero and demigod levels)2) Untouchable Opponent only gave +Epic Dex additional evasion (very common houserule)3) Enemies having Untouchable Opponent were rare. Only true dodge monkeys had them. Soak was actually a bigger issue most of the time.4) STR was allowed to hit using Brawl/Melee past Demigod (This is when the massive homebrew started, not simply because we hit demigod)5) My character had max epic STR, DEX, STA, and INT. I had Fight With Your Head, so if any enemy appeared with super cheese I could pull it out as an Uno Reverse card. This is how I killed the Titan, by reducing the soak bonus it had from epic stamina to zero. I also had Arete (Melee) so Untouchable opponent was nothing to me.In my experience in game it was the social effects that were the most dangerous. One use can force you to suck a socialite's cock forever. Even after Epic Willpower the socialite's could stop most fights with a few words. And many were happy to talk with them as everyone saw my character as a bloodthirsty psychopath, which was sad as she wanted to be friends with others.
>>86847930Others also noticed it.>>86848223Why?
Reading the Sidereals preview, which I'm mostly positively surprised by, I've come to the conclusion that I really don't like gods reproducing sexually. As was pointed out several times in the last thread, it's not a new 3E invention but something that was in 2E as well, but I didn't really like it in 2E either. It just seems more interesting to me if creating new gods isn't a simple matter now that Primordials are out of the picture. Some specific gods having the power to create a specific kind of underling, like the God of Leprosy being able to create lesser leper gods to oversee leprosy in the Creation, is fine with me. If there's only a constant supply, so to speak, of specific types of low-ranking gods, finding people to fill new vacancies would be more of a challenge, and I think that'd be good. Like, the idea of younger gods coming from a variety of backgrounds that may have nothing to do with their current purview, being originally godly grunts or God-Blooded who've ascended to godhood or something else, with older gods who were made by the Primordials to suit a specific task grumbling about the lack of standards these days but having no choice but to deal with the kinds of new hires available, would seem more interesting to me than gods being parts of godly dynasties that produce new gods semi-regularly. Less relevantly for actual play, typing this post I had a thought about First Age Solars pushing for the right to create themselves the divinities to fill new posts whose holders would have to closely work with or under the Solar Deliberative, with Heaven resisting such a change. Just a random thought about the kinds of political and diplomatic issues I'd imagine as important during the First Age.
>>86848906Ignoring that part of the lore shouldn't be very difficult, I don't think it implies big changes in anything of importance.The truth is that creating the gods is more complex than mere mundane reproduction (except for some very specific cases such as some fertility god). it is more interesting.
>>86848906I think I'm the same. I don't mind god-blooded and other demigods, but I think gods reproducing sexually between themselves humanizes them a bit too mucj, I think. I especially dislike the Incarnae having kids, in particular.
>>86845133In 1E, Ahlat is stated to be as powerful as a Third Circle Demon, though Fetiches are noted as being stronger then he. Octavian is much weaker then Ahlat, or most combat oriented Solars. He’s the default demon bodyguard, not really even that impressive for an early game boss let alone late game. Demons and Spirits get a huge boost in 2E, to the games detriment. The fact spirits all received a huge power boost so even Second Circles are Celestial tier is a huge contributing reason to that edition deforming around Elder Essence as the only relevant tier of play.
>>86849214Yeah, there seems to be a whole lot of children of the Incarnae around now. I don't like them either, especially not when an already established god is retconned as the child of an Incarna. I don't think Taru-Han being Saturn's daughter ir Amoth City-Smiter being Mars' son adds anything to either their characterization or that of their parents. As I said, I've mostly been positively surprised by the preview, but these new family relationships definitely bother me.
>>86849063>>86849214Most mythologies have gods having kids, the Greek pantheon is a whole web of different gods' children and stuff. Most of the gods power comes from their purview, the child of the Sun isn't necessarily extra powerful because they're the child of the Sun but because being the child of the Sun gets them a cushy gig, with all the powers that come with it. The child of the Sun doesn't spring forth from his head fully formed with the purview of "Righteous Action", they're given that purview, and depending on the god in question it may or may not suit their personality. You can see this with the the example child of the Unconquered Sun, they just wanna fuck around and pawn off most of their responsibilities. Being born from a specific god doesn't make them any more or less suited to role, there's even a bit about nepotism that mentions this.>Sometimes a god’s child is well-suited by nature to working with their parent, but they’re seldom the very best candidate for the position. Other gods secure positions for their children as subordinates to a highly-placed god who owes them a favor or with whom they have a good relationship.
>>86849279That doesn't seem to have very much to do with either of the posts you replied to
>>86849234>The fact spirits all received a huge power boost so even Second Circles are Celestial tier is a huge contributing reason to that edition deforming around Elder Essence as the only relevant tier of play.Strange, this is one of the problems genuinely introduced by 2e, but I never see people talking about it.>>86849279Different cosmologies and divine behavior.
>>86849234That seems like a weird attitude to me. 2CDs being a match for a younger Celestial and 3CDs to either an experienced Celestial or a Circle of less experienced Celestials is the way to go as far as I'm concerned. As for spirits receiving a power boost in 2E, keep in mind that Grabowski stated that spirits were understatted in 1E to let less mechanically savvy players to feel like badass Exalted too, and encouraged STs of more mechanically competent groups to buff spirits up. Octavian is pretty tough on the fluff, he's killed a Solar on the past and carries his skull on his belt, and mechanics that make him actually tough and believable as a Solar-killer are more correct than mechanics that leave him not that impressive even as an early-game boss.
>>86849279Exalted's gods aren't much like any real mythology.
>>86849375There are twenty to thirty Primordials, each of whom has at least a dozen Third Circles. Each Third Circle has seven Second Circles. This means that there is 1600-2500 2CDs. From a world building stand point, these numbers make the Primordial War impossible if 2CDs aren’t as mighty as strong Terrestials as they are in 1E. Unless we bend the game to assume that every combatant in the War was Elder Essence. Meanwhile in terms of actual play, you can summon 2CDs, so letting a Celestial summon more Celestials is…bad. If Octavian is as strong as an E3-4 Dawn, then the E3-4 Twilight who can summon him is objectively better. It’s the D&D 3.5 summon problem. Octavian in 1E has 16 ACC, 20L DMG, 18L Soak and 17 Health. That’s more then enough to murder a young or less materially inclined Solar, while still weak enough to get roflstomped by a seasoned Dawn. Moreover unless Heaven is MUCH weaker then Hell, the number of celestial gods per tier should be comparable to their Malfean counterparts. And making heaven have hundreds of Circle-level threats is a much bigger problem, since you can’t make the ‘they’re imprisoned!’ excuse for their power being irrelevant. Again this all pulls together into the same issue. A Celestial should not need to be thousands of years old before he can start reasonably doing the sorts of things Celestials do, nor should he be a big fish in a small pond, only relevant because he’s only fighting weaker supernatural beings. This isn’t World of Darkness.
>The Revelers are beings of unified purpose, and conversely also beings of freedom. As such, they have no divisions within their ranks to delineate either diverse function or diverse nature. >They have no Castes. They have no Aspects.>no diverse function or diverse nature.Kind of funny when you think about it.
>>86849279>You can see this with the the example child of the Unconquered SunAnd now there’s Nysela
>>86849234>Demons and Spirits get a huge boost in 2E, to the games detrimentReminder that the Kukla took hundreds of Solars or the Eye of Autochthonn to bring down in 1e
>>86850134>If It’s For The Goddess of Righteous Ideals I’d Even Defeat The Demon EmperorIs Nysela’s new motivation in 3e to groom a Solar into the spitting image of the Unconquered Sun so she can fuck her dad by proxy?
>>86850134Going to tie this Chirolu fella up to a rocket and then fire it at the side of a cliff
>>86850194More like pic related.>>86850242High odds of Chirolu being a woman.
Is Is uncanny how Lunar-like Takeru is.
I'm glad about the Visions of Bronze and Gold being removed because I always did like the concept of a Gold Faction member that thinks the Usurpation was justified but hates what the Bronze Faction people replaced the Solars with.
Why are people so strongly opposed to having Exalts as battlegroups?
>>86850487Battlegroups can't use charms so its boring
>>86850497Not as boring as using charms with 100 characters.
>Once a Reveler’s Limit track reaches 10 points, she enters Limit Break and the track empties. >She succumbs to the Urge of Isidoros: the Revel. The difficulty of all actions increases by one point per day until she begins or joins a celebration, party, or wild debauch. To end her Limit Break, this can’t just be an evening of drinking, song, and tale-telling with friends. At bare minimum, someone needs to end the evening dead, married, sporting several ill-advised tattoos, or in a different city than they blacked out in. A proper party that satisfies the Urge of Isidoros should be difficult to distinguish from a riot. If someone can walk in on the grounds of the Revel the day after it ends without saying “What the fuck happened here?” it wasn’t a RevelIs Isidoros South American?>The spirit of Isidoros comes upon her, and she descends into the fray of the revel with limitless abandon. Wine runs in rivers, along with other fluids>/d/
>>86850505> Mages suffer the same drawbacks as in a wild Revel, and also all magick they attempt to use becomes vulgar with witnesses. Paradox backlashes are particularly prone to inflicting Quiet.It’s funny because you’d think everything else about a Revel would make it easier to slide past Paradox, but I guess Isidoros just thinks sorcery is for faggots
>>86850487Battlegroups don't get any special powers other than Might, so it cuts their power down significantly. You have to deliberately try to avoid combat investment to make an Exalted character that's better in a max Size/Drill Battlegroup than they are alone. Your typical chargen Dragonblood fighter mulches max Drill/Size battlegroups of Essence 5 have-taken-every-Charm-available Dragonblood.In other news, a single Solar could lifewipe the entire Terrestrial Exalted population in a minute or two if you rendered the Dragonblooded as twenty-five Size 5 Battlegroups. On a similar note, a single Dragonblood could wipe the entire Solar Host if they were rendered as a Size 4 Battlegroup. This does not do good things for the game.>>86850540Is he wrong?
>>86850564So just give them more Might.
>>86850540Specially the Cult of Ecstasy, but maybe it is because the Revel fucks with reality too much.Are the Revelers supposed to be Celestial-tier? I thought they were going to be Terrestrial.
>>86850583Might caps at three and even Might 4-5 would still be relatively trivial.
>>86850602Then set Might at 6 or more.
>>86850610Frankly, the Solars don't deserve Might 6+ if we extrapolate the scale of Might out further, and you're already at the point of actual outright homebrew masquerading as battlegroups. It's also uninteresting to just adds higher stats onto bigger beatsticks, especially with Battlegroups who are so incredibly crushing when they get the slightest bit lucky but also so trivial when they don't. If you can't justify them within the rules of the game then why bother asking why people don't use them?
>>86850639How is it homebrew? You're just increasing a number. And it's even more uninteresting to sit there and watch the ST play 100 characters.
>>86850661Maybe don't fight a hundred Exalted at once?>How is it homebrew? You're just increasing a numberIncreasing numbers beyond what's possible in the game is literally homebrew, even if it's usually houserules. If you go up to Essence 11, that's homebrew. If you go up to Might 4+, that's homebrew too.
>>86850689You sound incredibly autistic.
>>86850704You sound like someone who makes dishonest arguments.
The real redpill here is that battlegroups shouldn't be applied to anything that can use Charms with effects more significant than the extremes of thaumaturgy and Mortal Hero Style.
>>86850836Nobody's running 100 charm users.
Revelers are more cult-like than Infernals, a mix of Sodom & Gomorrah, Bacchus, Rosemary's baby, and The Great God Pan.>Celebrant numbers are harder to nail down. There are probably a couple thousand strange Celebrants alive in the current day, and a few hundred monstrous ones, but they’re spread far and wide across much of the globe, with only four dense population concentrations. One such cluster is in Mumbai. Another is in Mexico City. Where the other two might be is left up to your Storyteller’s imagination.So Isidoros really is South American.
>>86850859Revelers are like a mix of Isidoros and Hegra. Remember how wild revels of insane emotional highs are Hegra's whole shtick? If only there was a splat where you'd pick two different Yozis to learn the powers of.
>>86850903Meant more of their behavior.>Remember how wild revels of insane emotional highs are Hegra's whole shtick? If only there was a splat where you'd pick two different Yozis to learn the powers of.Yeah.I never considered Isidoros do be demon!Dionysos, I always imagined him to be more animalistic.
>>86850849Nobody's making a hundred charm users relevant to one fight.
>>868510261e says that approximately half of Realm DBs have posts in the government. Assuming that people have a post that suits their best skill and that these are evenly distributed, I'd expect DBs who specialize in Archery, Brawl, Melee, Thrown, War, Resistance, Survival (as scouts), Athletics, Dodge, and Ride to be military commanders. That gives us 3000 DBs in the legions, or 97 per legion. Throw in a couple of field medics, siege engineers, or monks, and a Solar circle that goes to war with the Realm could easily face 100 DBs even if they only merit a single legion.
>>86851092Now who's the one sounding autistic?
>>86851181Oh I'm super autistic. I researched real worldwide historical demographics to try to figure what Creation's population distribution ought to look like.
>>86851428>>86851474Ive also put a ton of thought into demographics and world-building. For my campaign I have a full outline of factions, demography [by race and tier], Dragon Nests [Demense-equivalent], and so on for my ExWoD game. I have a bunch of PDFs and charts I made in excel.
>>86851474Not to the extent of looking at historical populations like that. I'm only interested in the current setting. The number I came up with was 910 million total human population in Creation.
>>86851548I've always used the 500 million number that was written somewhere for the current year and worked back from that for a lot of them.
>>86851559>>86851548I just eyeball at ‘about a billion people’ for modern day Creation, based on how much land there is.
>>86850849Part of me thinks that like how 3e gives big animals inexplicable special powers that can apparently compete with Charm users, battlegroups mainly made of Exalts/spirits could have generic powers representing a deluge of Charms used all at once for things like "conjures a veritable storm of supernatural power and blasts you with it" or "an omnidirectional flurry of unerring blows from all sides" or "everyone gets in shield formation and stabs outward, like that one Spartan Rage power in God of War 3".Part of me is wary about introducing yet more subsystems to 3e, when I'm already not a fan of the aforementioned thing that lets hippos outwrestle some Dawns for some fucking reason.>>86850859>That one Reveller who LARPs as Jetstream Sam
>>86851559500 million is far too low. The Blessed Isle alone ought to have 253 million people in it just from giving it India's population density circa 100 AD, and that's before factoring in the three growing seasons per year, the network of magic weather controlling machines, or the demigods who run the place, though I assumed that those translate into fewer people being farmers rather than a larger population based on the demographics given in the Scroll of Heroes.
Looks like we unlocked the $150,000 stretch goal. What do you guys think the novella will be about?
>>86851610I don't care. I'm not reading it. I only want to play.
>>86851598It's supposed to have pretty big areas of unsettled land, though I imagine ancient India did as well in your comparison. I'd love to see your breakdown if you're willing to share, I've tried to figure out the density of Exalt in each direction given a similar idea but I never got super far with it.
>>86842351The Gods were never designed to run creation. UCS is just a big security guard. Luna is a prostitute. The fates are essentially accountants. The rest are incompetent. The Supreme Ruler of The Universe The Empyreal Chaos Theion was designed, created, begot, and formed perfectly to rule over all things. Who could rule better than the Principle of Rulership itself? The Gods damned themselves the moment they rebelled.
>>86851610An alphabet soup being stunning and brave.
>>86851637I used 100AD as my point of comparison, because the upcoming Realm Civil War is supposed to be the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, so I assume that the campaign start represents the world at the height of the Han dynasty.>Blessed Isle, density of India because it was the densest country that wasn't really tiny. >253 million>Scavenger Lands, density of China because it's the second densest non-trivial country.>83 million>Far East, density of Mexico because it's vaguely meso-american with Rathess and such.>63 million.>Southeast, density of Nepal because 3e makes it Indian but I already used India. Only counting the fertile area above and around the Dreaming Sea.>140 million>Northeast, should be 6 million if I gave it the population density of the US/Canada, but the east is supposed to be fertile so I copied the northern threshold's population.>77 million.>Southern coast, from the sea down to where the map looks like desert, averaged the density of Isreal and Lebanon.>97 million>Far south, counting the southeastern deserts past the mountains, density of Saudi Arabia>32 million>North, density of eastern Europe below the White Sea and Canada above it. >79 million, 2 million of which are above the White Sea.>Southwestern coast, I forgot to write down where I took it from, probably Indonesia or southeast Asia. >11 millionThen I couldn't find a satisfying population for the West, so I just went with the 100k per astrological direction thing and low-balled it to 75k because it's the least populated direction.Adding to that, I estimate 50 million additional humans in Autocththonia. 100 million souls and 50 Alchemical cities by canon, assuming they met the rising population and consumption of po souls halfway arbitrarily, which gives a nice even approximately 1 million people per city.
>>86849375He's easier to neutralize if your party knows the spell to send him back to Malfeas.
>>86849234Who's this cutie?
>>86851589>That one Reveller who LARPs as Jetstream SamIt is the easy mode.>Be HueReveler.>all Revels are automatically Wild Revels.>All actions to induce a Revel are at -2 difficult.>Limit Break? Just go to a "Baile do Corredor">Can easily create several thousands Celebrants per year.>Apocalyptic Revel is indistinguishable from the average favela.https://youtube.com/watch?v=JK7KBO2cHv4
>>86853308>Crime rates actually go down in South America after drug cartels realise customers tripping out have like a 15% chance of generating a reality bending singularity on their turf>That one Antediluvian that gets woken up by the party and has such a good time it just goes along with it>In less than a decade, most of South America's population is Celebrants because of the HueReveler's sex appeal and new Revelers are being born basically every other day. >The Technocracy and the Camarilla are shitting their pants at the Masquerade fucking shattering on an entire continent>In desperation they offer your high-Essence Solar party a choice of two missions: Cull the Reveler population before North American farmland gets raided by constant gangs of 30-50 Revelers or somehow jettison South America from reality, whichever is easier
>>86852985Just a cute elf.
>>86849613From a world building stand point, the Primordial War is definitely possible even in 2CDs are Celestial tier. Spirits are, or at least should be, more restricted by their role and nature than Exalts, with less breadth and versatility in their powers. 2CDs being Celestial tier just means that they're Celestial tier in something. It doesn't mean that all of those thousands of 2CDs are warriors or even have powers that are particularly useful in a support role in a war. Also the Primordial War wasn't just the Exalted vs. Primordials and their servants. It was the Exalted wielding unspecified but presumably powerful weapons made by Autochthon, a couple of million Jadeboprn, a hundred million Dragon-Kings and gods offering such support as they could without directing raising their hands against the Primordials vs. the Primordials and their servants.As for summoning, yeah, it's powerful. In 3E any Celestial Circle sorcerer will be relatively experienced, so it's not that relevant to how young Exalts and 2CDs should compare to each other. It'd be pretty bad if the second highest tier of sorcery, open only to Celestial Exalts and powerful spirits, couldn't summon anything relevant to the battles of the Exalted. That'd hardly be impressive.>Again this all pulls together into the same issue. A Celestial should not need to be thousands of years old before he can start reasonably doing the sorts of things Celestials do, nor should he be a big fish in a small pond, only relevant because he’s only fighting weaker supernatural beings. This isn’t World of Darkness.If young Exalts can curbstomp 1CDs, take 2CDs on their own but not without risk, and take 3CDs as a Circle, then they most definitely can do the sorts of things Celestials do right out of the gate.Also keep in mind this Grabowski statement http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/Thus_Spake_Zargrabowski/PowerScaling before touting 1E power level as how things definitely should be.
>>86853497>The Technocracy and the Camarilla are shitting their pants at the Masquerade fucking shattering on an entire continent>When Camarilla efforts are sabotaged by brujah & toreadorHuevelers can get a lot of Celebrants easily, but I am not sure if they can make more Huevelers as fast.
>>86842150If I want to punch people to dust or carry the entire sky/mountain on my back like Hercules or Sun Wu Kong, which divine father or mother should I have?
>>86854073Epic Strength and Epic Stamina. Most gods who favor one of these favor the other. Just get a merit that lets you use Brawl/melee with Strength.but I *strongly* recommend playing Scion 2e. Do I like Scion 2e? No, I don't. But Scion 2e wins immediately because it's a functional system. I wins by default as it didn't explode before crossing the finish line.
>>86854094You can use 1e fluff and 2e system no?
>>86854061The startup is gonna be painful yeah. But think about it-once you've got a couple low-level Huevelers out there having Brazilian adventures, and THEY'RE grinding XP and getting up to shenanigans. The Reveler Exaltation is like Stands; they make the users seek each other out and recognise each other as kin to get the party going harder, so unless they've already got a grudge going the most likely response between Huevelers is cooperation. Even if you have a couple extra people chipping in 1 Essence level apiece to the apocalyptic Revel roll that shit's going exponential sooner or later.
>Hammerspace Utility Conjuration (•)>The Reveler may draw a minor, useful prop out of nowhere if doing so would put someone at ease.>System: This Charm has no cost, and simply requires the use of a turn to produce the desired object. It can’t produce dedicated weapons or specialized tools (although it might produce a pocket knife to help someone get into a frustrating plastic package). Instead, it provides things which facilitate social interactions: a fresh-cut rose, a six-pack of beer, a hunting license, or a membership card for an exclusive club. >Objects conjured from hammerspace tend to vanish once nobody’s paying attention to them anymore.>put someone at ease.>"Hey kids, wanna buy some drugs?">>86854334Somehow we wrote an adventure module.
>Many-Handed Labor Approach (•)>The Reveler goads herself to greater efforts when working with the aid or even just the accolades of others, enabling her to forsake tools and limitations while repairing or crafting something.>System: The Reveler can work faster than normal when creating, modifying, or repairing something. Generally this Charm enhances Crafts or Technology actions, but might also apply to coding a program with Computer, creating explosives with Science, or preparing a meal. She increases the speed of her construction or repair efforts by a factor of the number of people helping her with the work, or simply watching and cheering on her labors, to a maximum of (Stamina + Appearance) times her normal speed.>By spending 1 Essence, she can forego any need for tools for the next 8 hours,.This could be used for Hearteaters.>Orbital Enlightenment Meditation (••)>Through total concentration, the Reveler may insinuate her senses into the mind of a Celebrant, “riding” their perceptions to see and hear whatever they do.>System: Spend 1 Essence to target one or more Celebrants within the Reveler’s line of sight for sense-riding, then roll Charisma + Empathy against a difficulty of the highest Willpower rating among them. The Exalt can ride her targets’ senses for one hour per success gained, but her own body falls into a comatose state while doing so, and she can only be roused prematurely by voluntarily abandoning the Charm or by taking damage. Up to (Essence rating) Celebrants can be simultaneously ridden with this Charm.>During a Revel, the Reveler may remain active while using this Charm, but suffers a penalty on all actions equal to the number of Celebrants whose senses she is sharing.Looks like Celebrants function as Pawns.
Got a couple hints at the new Sidereals manuscript.>Paradox Spirits>Reality splinters and fractures around the Sidereal, birthing a malevolent paradox spirit. Paradox spirits are alien creatures of color and shadow, intertwined with fate’s weave and with the prophesy from which they were born. A few share certain qualities of their Sidereal “parent,” drawing its colors from her anima’s hues, wearing a warped semblance of her face, speaking with her voice, or sharing her memories. Paradox spirits seek to fulfill the prophecy they were born from, but their methods are unpredictable, amoral, and likely to cause significant problems for the Sidereal. A paradox spirit’s Essence equals the Sidereal’s. It has whatever other traits the Storyteller assigns it, which can include Sidereal Charms.>Getimian Interference>This complication can only come into play if the Sidereal’s already suffered an anomalous backlash or created a paradox spirit. A Getimian antagonist seeks to leverage this weakness in the weave of fate to empower his reality warping magic, infecting the world with his Origin on a large scale. Other powerful adversaries might have reasons of their own for leveraging flaws in fate.Also Sidereal Limit Break is all about hubris now. Getting real Dr. Strange vibes from it.
>>86851026dbs are, that's their thing. which just means dbs need custom battlegroup rules instead of using the ones designed to nerf participants, run them gestalted into units that act as a handful of pseudo celestials or something
>Party Animal Regimen (•••)>By dragging a group of mortals or Celebrants about with her during her sojourns from bar to club to axe-throwing lounge, the Reveler teaches them the deeper nuances of joy-in-life and endurance alike.>System: The Reveler collects a mob of drinking buddies, followers, groupies, or other hangers-on, and leads them on a multi-day crash-course in having a good time. During each day of showing the group how to live life to the fullest, spend 1 Essence per student. At the end of seven days of wildly rampaging through every form of amusement and indulgence, all followers gain 30 experience points to spend raising their Stamina, Charisma, Manipulation, Appearance,Wits, Alertness, Athletics, Brawl, Drive, Expression, Performance, Streetwise, Subterfuge, or Survival. No Ability can be raised higher than that of their Exalted instructor. This Charm can be used on the same group repeatedly, but bestows only 20 experience points on subsequent training regimens. Any unspent experience is lost.>Any Party Animal who achieves 5 dots in an Ability or Attribute under this Charm’s training regimen is considered a strange Celebrant, and may spend any remaining experience points to purchase numina or Celebrant Merits at a cost of 2 experience points per point rating of a given Merit (see pp XX-XX)So Brazilians can finally go full warg?>>86855455Will they have two "bad stuff happes" tracks? Limit and Paradox?>Origin blends over.Nothing good will come from this.
>>86855515>Huey brings forth Ork into the reality universe
If you're a brainlet how do you write a Cha 5 Int 5 Wit 5 character's speech or stunts?
>>86855539Do your best, write something cringe, roll dice, and have it work anyway. You simply are not superhuman in real life, sad as it is.
>>86855529>According to Holden, Sidereals greatest foes are Kingdom of Hearts OCs & Hue!Orks.Meanwhile Lunars got "Lunar pasta, the splat" and "Abyssal/Infernals with a more beefy Coadjutor/Whispers"What could have been,
>>86855786Holy fuck I hate that Sidereals have too much going on and lunars have nothing. What is this bullshit edition. I'm sticking with 1e lore if I use getimians they'll just be a subfaction of pattern spiders who were added by the yozi to fuck with the maidens because they're dicks. They were cast out and now want back in. You can kill them all off if you want but it'll be hard. I don't care that they get an "exalted" charmset. Giving non-humans exalt level abilities make them much more viable and much more interesting than more humans.
>>86851706he rules, but the king doesn't run things personally, thieon delegates lest he waste all the time he could be using to rule on minor random tasks instead. running shit is minion work, swlihn set things up so that chains of minions answering to minions who answer to minions who ultimately answer to him all therefore answer to him individually, and therefore he can just sort of shout at the world itself and somebody somewhere will get things done how he wants with no further effort.it is true that none of the big gods are supposed to be at the top tho, but the medium sized hill of post revolution purge starmetal is often seen as a more pressing reason than a bound titan. all of which is probably part of why a minor god of mortal paperwork randomly has inexplicable power over the heavenly bureaucracy itself in this broken world>>86851761for the non major island chain bits of the west just use waterworld. everybody lives on postapocalyptic scavenger rafts of wildly varying size and quality peppered with a couple caribbean/hawaii islands here and there since it isn't quite as empty as it looks. also the ocean contains at least one rapture type city cut off from everywhere but those have mostly run their course by now except the one leviathan uses to torture dbs.>>86852745makes the banishment line less pointless if demons aren't speedbumps that cost less to fight than the spell does>>86855879badwrongfun. if grabowski wanted nonhumans in his campaigns he wouldn't have specified that all fantasy races got geocided by solars in the primordial usurpation's aftermath. this is the kind of bullshit 2e tried to pull giving lintha low essence solar charms
>>86849279>You can see this with the the example child of the Unconquered Sun, they just wanna fuck around and pawn off most of their responsibilitiesi donno, that sounds like conky to me>>8685012190+% of the time blasting your father into crumbling shards is not the correct way to deal with your issues
>>86855879 #They add nothing to the setting, literally KoH fanfiction crossover.>>86856032 #Dragon Kings, Raksha, and Jadeborn, are playable.
>>86856075This.Atleast that what he has turned into.
>>86855879If I used them, I'd make them Solar experiments into creating new Exalts, ones designed to keep going in case humanity was wiped out and to interface with and "improve" the Loom of Fate. Unfortunately creating people with fake memories and cosmic powers makes them freak out and try to "fix' the world. And for some reason they instinctively hate all other Exalt types, trying to wipe them out while ranting about how they're corrupted and dangerous and have to be destroyed for the good of the world. They'd have gone into the Jade Prison too and just got released. That way they'd have stuff to do other than their nonsensical fighting destiny at the direction of a GMPC thing and would be a good way to reveal the Great Curse.
>>86856397>words words wordsSounds about right actually.
>Valor-Swallowing Darkness (••••)>The character’s anima swells and darkens around her, then sinks into her flesh, threading it with black veins and flushing her skin. She radiates a furious heat, and drinks in the courage of those who might think of opposing or gainsaying her.>System: Spend 1 Essence. For the next (Appearance rating) minutes out of combat, or turns in battle, whenever anyone seeks to oppose the Reveler in any respect, either socially or physically,they must make a Willpower roll against a difficulty of the Exalt’s (Charisma or Appearance + Intimidation) or else abort their action and bow their head in shame at their own temerity. They may still defend against her attacks as normal.Useful for the volcanic Exigent.>Easy-Living Bohemian Attitude (•••••)>Letting herself drift through the world, the Reveler attunes her Essence to those around her and trusts to good fortune to take care of her needs. Pressed by her terrible gravity, the world provides.>System: By spending a few hours wandering aimlessly and spending 3 Essence, the Reveler may gain a dot of any socially-oriented Background of her choice for the next 24 hours, letting her Essence lead her to the needed friends, money, fame, or whatever else.Good for vagrants.>One Step Ahead Attitude (••)>The Revel feeds the Exalt’s aggression, always keeping her one step ahead of her enemies.>System: While at the site of a Revel, the Reveler’s base Initiative rating becomes Dexterity + Wits + (highest of Stamina, Charisma, or Appearance). She can consume the power of the Revel to assure that for the rest of the fight, she simply goes first every round, but if she does so, the Revel winds down and loses one category of potency at the end of the scene. If it is a basic Revel, then it peters out altogether and she cannot reignite it for at least a week.This can be used to control the Revel better than the party pooper charm.
>>86856397wrong page, meant the nexto ne
>Misfortune Never Felt (•••)Didn't expect an AoE heal.>Celebratory Imperfections Remade (••••)>Those who partake of the Revel’s joys may find themselves changed by the experience, made whole where they consider themselves incomplete, but also made strange in the process.>System: The Reveler may spend 2 Essence to send a surge of transformative power through a Revel in which she participates. Everyone participating in the Revel in her immediate presence instinctively understands that they have the option to become physically complete, if they m consider themselves not to be so. Maimed organs are restored to functionality (or regenerated entirely if they are missing). Absent senses are restored. A missing limb may be replaced. Any sort of physical Flaw may be removed; even a subject whose sexual characteristics and gender are misaligned may remake their body to attain wholeness, if they wish. Everyone who takes advantage of this opportunity must make a Stamina roll against difficulty 8. Success restores or mends whatever they feel they lack, in exactly the manner they wish. Failure also makes the target whole, but with some niggling strangeness: an occult birthmark, recurring nightmares, a newfound sixth sense for the macabre, a restless limb that sometimes does things without its owner’s permission, or the like.>A botch means that the target’s transformed body is in some way twisted and monstrous. A regrown arm may be covered in fetid hair and end in bestial talons; a face cleansed of disfiguring scars may lose all of its distinguishing features; an individual whose fertility is restored is almost assured to bear monstrous Celebrants as children. Fomori powers (see W20, pp. 428-439) may act as good representations of these features.So this is the Charm used to make all those shemales.
>>86851610Are they going to farm it out again? If they do then bland Sidereal girl goes to Heptagram to learn how to be an Exalted and there she meets a stoic badboy who is either a Abyssal, Infernal or Lunar.
>Passion-Stoking Posture (•)>Whenever the Reveler expresses her own passions, those of her audience rise up in response, making them susceptible to her words and ideas.>System: The Reveler permanently lowers the difficulty of all Charisma rolls by one.>Emotion-Tuning Wavelength (••)>The Reveler wears her heart on her sleeve, easily swaying others with her infectious enthusiasm.>System: The Exalt lowers the difficulty of all Expression and Performance rolls by one, and cannot botch with either Ability. Should she fail at any Charisma roll, she may reflexively spend 1 Essence to attempt to re-roll it once>>86856750The novella is about a Sidereal, so a stoic badboy Getimian is more likely, something about the Sidereal being his lost love.
>>86856750The Dragon-Blooded novel was good. If written by the same author, it could be worth it.The Sidereals trait preview has been interesting, especially the Sidereal version of the Great curse.
>>86854239Of course. No reason you can't.
>>86854034I disagree fundamentally. A Celestial Exalt is a meaningless bitch if there exists many thousands more Celestial Tier Demons and Spirits then the entire Celestial Exalted Host. A First Circle is equal to a very lofty mortal, a Second Circle to a seasoned Terrestial, Third Circle to seasoned Celestial. Martial inclination naturally heavily effecting actual combat. A warrior demon like Octavian will likely triumph against Celestial Exalted less martially inclined then himself. This mentality that ‘this is Exalted so everything needs to be Celestial tier and off the wall awesome OP’ is why 2E sucked ass. And while bits of the mentality were in 1E already it was much less prevalent.
>>86858551>A Celestial Exalt is a meaningless bitch if there exists many thousands more Celestial Tier Demons and Spirits then the entire Celestial Exalted Host.Unless you are a Hearteater, than it become shin megami tensei simulator.
>>86858551>A First Circle is equal to a very lofty mortallmao noIn a 1:1 fight, a First Circle demon would easily rip apart mortals and eat them.
>>86858551First circle demons should be mortal-tier? Hard disagree.First circles should be able to do stuff comparable to a young dragon-blood.Second circles should be stronger than all but the mightest dragon-blooded, and able to beat young celestials who aren't taking their field of competence seriously, but should be beaten by a young celestial who is dedicated to their specialty. (I.E. Octavian should get whooped by almost any dawn caste worth the name, but should be able to crush solar socialites who are relying on a half-assed martial art to keep them alive in combat.)Third circles should take either an experienced and specialized celestial or a circle of more normal ones to beat.
>>86858551>>86858665I think you're both missing something. Dice caps aside, the line is blurry. There's a world of difference between a young Celestial versus an Essence 4 Dragonblooded who's led many successfully battles.
>>86832370She fucked that tiger didnt she
>>86858656Not in first edition. A martial artist or sorcerer could deal with a blood ape without too much trouble. Especially if we extend the meaning of ‘mortal’ to include godblooded, beastmen, or the genetically modified.
>>86858665Again no. I disagree fundamentally. This mentality is what caused 2E to become the cancer that it is. Not everything needs to be over the top and overpowered. There are millions of First Circles, they are the equivalent of basic bitch spirits. Not everything needs to scale to Exalted.
>>86858551Well, evidently Grabowski disagreed, seeing his statement about gods and demons being understatted compared to what they should be in order to let the mechanically challenged to also have fun. This is, incidentally, probably the first time I've heard anyone say that the reason 2E sucks is spirits being too powerful. I've heard a lot of other complaints made against 2E, but never that one. 1CDs being mortal-tier is pretty obviously wrong both mechanically and lorewise, so that's a pretty weird take. Stronger 1CDs being a challenge for a Terrestrial, 2CDs for a group of Terrestrials or a particularly badass one or a young-ish Celestial, 3CDs for a group of Celestials or a particularly badass one, and beings beyond that like the Incarnae being a challenge for an all-star group of the meanest and toughest Celestials around, seems like a more useful and sensible division of power levels to me.
>>86858682It is art for the year of the tiger, so no, she didn't fuck the tiger.
>>86858775Pretty sure that pictures been around for like at least 5 years.
>>86858708There were millions of dragon blooded at one point according to some writers.Mind, I don't at all condone 2E's take on things. 3rd circle demons should not be "elder exalt" level at all. I don't think "elder exalt" level should exist at all, it's just pointless number inflation.Ahlat is supposed to be one of the premier war gods in the setting. He's the kind of being that can walk among armies of normal soldiers and kill in mass with impunity.A seasoned dragon-blooded should be able to kill him with great effort and preparation and some luck. A circle of dragon-blooded should be a threat he avoids confronting directly. A skilled dawn, even a young one, should be the favored winner of any confrontation on equal footing.When I say a third circle demon should fall to an experienced and specialized celestial, I don't mean the 2E idea of some E7-8 monster, I mean a 3E solar that hit E3 and took both melee and resistance charms and has some good hearthstones to go with their artifact gear. Even the starting dawn should have a real possibility of an upset victory.
>>86858809It was posted on January's 19th.https://www.deviantart.com/eduardo-pena/art/Tigris-and-Michis-904326876
>>86858863Nta but reminds me of this pic a lot
>>86858749The below is the pertinent combat statistics of three Second Circle and four First Circle Demons. Their statistics are consistent with the idea that First Circles are lowly spirits akin to Elementals or little gods, and Second Circles are akin to the Celestial gods of middling rank. Their most relevant combat related power for most is Principle of Motion. Outside of combat, few of them have Charms that exceed the general scale of Terrestials [Spirits lack Excellences, so First Circles are on par with mortals in most common things, and Second Circles with their Traits of 6 and 7 are on par with Terrestials]. As to that quote by Grabowski you keep prattling about, he says explicitly what he left out. Semi-perfects, persistent defenses, and combos, and those specifically on Ahlat and other ranking deities. He did not mean that the traits themselves are dramatically undersold. Now I do agree that combat investment is a much more relevant measuring rod than power level tier. Octavian can and will smash through even a Celestial Exalt whose less combat-invested then himself. But he will also be smashed through by a Terrestial who is equally as combat invested as himself. ACC, DMG, Lethal Soak, Health:Octavian: 16/20/18/17Makarios: 10/17/16/13Zsofika: 12/10/18/15Agata: 7/10/4/8Amphelisia: 9/9/8/8Angyalka: 5/3/3/11Blood Ape: 8/8/5/8
>>86858854The millions of Dragonblooded thing is also stupid. And I agree with you that Elder Essence should not exist at all, for the same reasons you state.
>>86858911Strange, your pic is mirrored
>>86858854>I don't think "elder exalt" level should exist at all, it's just pointless number inflation.I appreciate that 3e agrees with you. "Elder" exalts exist, they're just stuck at the level cap and start making their own charms if they want something above essence 5, but the elder charms from above essence 5 are still just E5 tier of powerful instead of breaking into a world of stupid like D&D Epic Levels.>>86858920>Agata: 7/10/4/8>Amphelisia: 9/9/8/8>Angyalka: 5/3/3/11>Blood Ape: 8/8/5/8All of these look like numbers that a mortal martial artist or well-trained warrior would be able to hit. I like that.
>>86858854See I don't think that's necessarily the right way of going about it. A 3rd Circle should be superior to even powerful Celestials and need a Circle to defeat reliably since they don't get to respawn. Maybe an Essence 3 Dawn has a 5% chance of beating them in a straigtht, but it needs to be that low. Not a terrible fan of the absolute meat grinder that was the Primordial War in 2e, but the idea that Exalts stick around, powerful enough to step, and have the ability to permanently slay spirits is what makes them a big deal. 20-25 Primordials was it, with ~10 3rd Circles each is only 200-250 3rd Circle Demons. The number of Solars outnumber them, let alone Lunars and Sidereals. For them to be a threat they need to be able to reasonably take on a decent number of them and have good chances. For the PCs in a game they'll probably be that 5% chance that makes it, but for the setting individual 3rd Circle Demons need to be really fucking powerful other the Primordial War doesn't make a whole bunch of sense. Now those powerful spirits likely don't want to get into a fight with E3 Exalts because 5% chance of perma-death is enough to make most of them not want to take those odds.
>>86858975I told you. Conan the Barbarian, not a solar-version but the actual dude, could kill a single Blood Ape. To be honest the only real difficulty would be Principle of Motion, but if he ambushes the Blood Ape or strafes it with arrows or has some godbloodedness or martial arts a human fucking being could kill that thing. The easiest way to do it would be to just wear heavy enough armor [I think mundane superheavy is 10 or 12 lethal soak, more then enough to survive the Ape's ravaging while you hit him back.
>>86858920>Octavian can and will smash through even a Celestial Exalt whose less combat-invested then himself. But he will also be smashed through by a Terrestial who is equally as combat invested as himself.And this is bad. Some Cathak Cainan or Tepet Arada orr Ragara Myrrun having a chance at defeating Octavian after a long and bloody fight, if they get lucky and fight smart, is fine, but even such Terrestrials as these should definitely be the underdog in a fight against Octavian. Also the Grabowski statement posted earlier ITT (http://exalted.xi.co.nz/wiki/Thus_Spake_Zargrabowski/PowerScaling) is very much relevant when discussing the meaning of the published 1E stats. Those stats aren't what they are because it's intended for a combat-focused Terrestrial to smash through Octavian. They are what they are so that people who build their characters the way canon 1E Exalts are built still feel like Exalted rather than chumps. Mechanics that don't have Terrestrials smash through Octavian are truer to the lore and spirit of the game than ones that make Octavian a chump.
>>86859049Again, Grabowski says what he left off was the spinning rims. Look at it like thisOctavian [Canon]:ACC 16DMG: 20Soak: 22B/18LHea: 17If we wanted to 'Grabowski-tize' him we wouldn't add ten to each pool. We'd do things like add a Charm to boost damage a few levels with motes, maybe a power to throw an attack that cannot be blocked, a power to roll add his Essence Rating to his parry rolls [which can produce a parry if none exists] or so on. Octavian is underpowered in the sense that his statblock is simplified and lacking the sorts of tricks combat gurus would add to their characters that would trivialize him. But none of those additions would drastically change his tier. That is the point. Octavian fighting some guy's 'I picked cool powers' Solar, and Octavian with Frosting fighting Tom Greybeard's 'I know every aspect of this system' Solar is the SAME FIGHT narratively.
>>86858947Is it? Is that supposed to mean something?
>>86859154Check the signature, not sure, it is just weird.
>>86858980There were at minimum 31 Primordials in the war. 23 Yozis, 5 awakened Neverborn, at least one Neverborn who was not-awakened, Ramethus, and the other Primordial who ran away. Primordials have between 12 (the Ebon Dragon) and 23 (Malfeas) 3CDs apiece. 3CDs do respawn, faster than Exalts do even. because they don't start back at Essence 2 when they die. Add to that whatever Behemoths and automatons the Primordials had, plus billions of loyalist Essence using nonhumans, and there's plenty to stand up to a few hundred Essence 5 Exalts. Far more importantly, any Celestial can have 15 2nd Circle slaves active at once. A Solar can bind five 3rd Circles every Calibration. And that's not even considering permanent service through task binding one as your bodyguard or accountant or whatever. Why even bother learning to fight when demon summoning lets you get multiple beings as strong as five of you at your full potential? Exalts should be powerful in their own right, not demon-mules that only exist to get the real powers of the setting out of hell.
Stop conflating lore and mechanics. They don't work together.
>>86859208This is also ignoring the fact that the jotun themselves have to be fought [or at the very least invaded if you do that bullshit interpretation] and that Fetiches are more potent then the average Third Circle. So yes this is generally my point you're making. Third Circles are on par with Celestials of mid to high Essence, Second Circles are on par with Terrestials of mid to high Essence, and the First Circles were fought with Tiger Warriors with Artifacts and Martial Arts and Enlightened Essence and Gunzosha.
Keep conflating lore and mechanics. They work perfectly together.
>Spider and Barfly Rapport (•••)>The Reveler gains great power over anyone who has succumbed to intoxicants or whose judgment is impaired, and may easily talk them into doing whatever she wants.>System: Spend 2 Essence and roll (Charisma or Apperance) + Performance against a difficulty of the target’s Willpower rating. The target must be drunk, high, concussed, or otherwise of impaired judgment. One or two successes will allow the Reveler to command her target to do anything that doesn’t seem tremendously unusual or out of character. With three or four successes, she can command the target to do anything that doesn’t endanger himself or a loved one. With five or more successes, the target will risk his life and the lives of others at the Reveler’s command. The target will be aware his actions are unusual and inexplicable once he sobers up or otherwise recovers, unless this Charm is used during a Revel. In that case, the target will rationalize his actions to the best of his ability.>Spider and Barfly Rapport cannot goad a target into harming or killing himself, compel him into certain death, or force him to betray his Nature.
>Blackout-Editing Discretion (••••)>Focusing her attention upon a target with impaired judgment, the Reveler tells them a story, and those stories come to replace their memories.>System: Spend 1 Essence and direct a Charisma + (Expression or Performance) roll against an intoxicated, high, concussed, or otherwise impaired target, resisted by their Willpower (both at difficulty 6). If the Reveler gains more successes, she can dictate what the target later remembers as having occurred during their period of intoxication or impediment.>During a Revel, this Charm can be aimed at any participant, and can edit any portion of their memories, based on the number of successes by which the Reveler wins the contested roll.>1 success: The events of the entire current Revel can be rewritten.>2 successes: The events of a recent day that occurred prior to the Revel can be rewritten.>3 successes: A single pivotal memory in the subject’s life can be rewritten. Alternately, entire weeks of the subject’s past can be written so long as they’re not crucial to the substance of her life or identity.>4 successes: A major feature of the subject’s life can be rewritten (such as who they’re married to, where they went to school, or whether the Reveler is a hated enemy or their childhood friend).>5+ successes: The subject can be given an entirely new history.>>86859394The only '''successful''' attempt was turning Lunars in battered housewives.
>Soul-Grinding Aperture (••)>The Reveler may draw the scattered ephemera of defeated spirits into the dense, crushing core of her Exaltation, devouring their power.>System: When the Reveler slays a spirit, demon, or ghost, the player can opt to roll Stamina + Occult (difficulty 7). Doing so prevents the being from ever returning or reforming, and grants the Reveler 2 Essence on the spot. Furthermore, the Reveler can reflexively spend 1 Essence to gain the ability to strike and damage intangible beings for the rest of the scene, so long as she can perceive them. A Reveler may use Soul-Grinding Aperture to consume and destroy the Exaltation of a fellow Reveler if they activate this Charm upon personally slaying him. Doing so increases the Reveler’s Essence rating by one dot, to a maximum of Essence 5.>That one Reveler who believes he is a highlander.
>>86858920Remember that those spirits have charms. Principle of motion alone is a game changer against a mortal with identical numbers.A mortal can kill a blood ape, yes, but he's definitely the underdog unless he's got his own magical mojo going. If he's an E3 martial artist/thaumaturge with enchanted gear chugging potions that buff his combat stats, yeah, the blood ape is going to get fucked up. But if he's "merely" a legendary swordsman he better make sure his will is in order before the fight.Octavian is called the quarter-prince because he conquered a quarter of one level of malfeas. That's a big fucking territory. Depending on the edition that may be larger than creation. And he's only interested in conquest through force. He's strong, not at the level of "a terrestrial" unless you're talking a combat terrestrial who has won solo matches against the anathema before.Demons don't map directly to humans, power-wise. 1st circles are in between normal humans and dragon-blooded. 2nd circles are in between dragon-blooded (with the note that DB's can become much more versatile) and celestials. 3rd circles are stronger than your average celestial but entirely fallible to exceptional ones.It's absolutely true that a solar circle sorceror can bind 5 3rd circles as soon as calibration comes around. Twilights are game-changing enough without lugging around 25 solars worth of power as slaves. While that entourage should be intimidating, there should be individual solars, sidereals, and even lunars who are perfectly capable of personally picking those demons off during the year and gloating over the demon-binder as he lies defenseless before them. But that should be an extraordinary individual, not every circle of solars should be capable of taking all five at once in a straight fight because they're "beneath" celestials.
Will Holden also do some Exigent charmsets?
>>86856173ur da shattered?