Imperial Glory editionPrevious thread: >>86813876A thread for discussing the 'Star Wars' franchise and its various gaming adaptations.Fantasy Flight Games’ X-Wing, Armada, and Legion>https://pastebin.com/9puqx1ze (embed)Star Wars Roleplaying Games (d6/d20/FFG)>https://pastebin.com/iUriRfaA (embed)Other FFG Star Wars tabletop (Imperial Assault, Destiny and the LCG)>http://pastebin.com/ZE4gn0yN (embed)Old links>https://pastebin.com/yUVx32wB (embed)Latest AMG news:>New Battle Force documents.>https://www.atomicmassgames.com/star-wars-legion-documents>https://www.atomicmassgames.com/star-wars-legion-transmissions>https://twitter.com/atomicmassgames/Latest Edge news:>https://edge-studio.net/a-new-hope/>https://edge-studio.net/star-wars-edge/>Thread question: What's your favorite Star Destroyer variant? (Venator, Victory, Imperial, Executor, etc.)
>>86826895Good old ISD probably, but I have a soft spot for the Venator.
>>86826895That's a hard one, while I love senators and theres something to be said for the fuck you size of monsters like the Executor, I actually kinda like the supremacy as the FOs mobile capital, I just think it should have been in a good movie, but if I had to pick a fave, the Nebula class Destoryer used by the new republic.
>>86826895So does Shatterpoint mean end of the line for Legion?
>>86825363Except Andor did a perfect job of humanizing and showing us the point of view of imperial character, like Dedra ; yet you don't really sympathize with her, and she remain undoubtly evil, not only because her actions support and help maintain a evil system but also because she does evil action herself. They show us why, it make sense, but it dosn't change what she is.The posts I answered to where having a meltdown because they can't accept the precense of thing like stormies shooting a crowd (something far from new in Star Wars) because yeah, no shit, a violent, oppressive militarist junta react violently to crowd movement they lost the control off. The other complain about the Empire being presented as racist, and yeah, it's one of it's core element, the Empire isn't big fan of aliens.There is nothing "retardly evil" that the Empire did in Andor, that real life human didn't do, in fact thing like using violence to repress popular movement, torture of people arrested for dubious motive, disappearing, slavery and parody of trials is pretty standard for dictatorship. Pick your choice of USSR, Nazi Germany, Communist China (or Imperial china really), Nationalist Imperial Japan, Khmer Rouge.
>>86827037Officially no, if it sells better practically yes
>>86827037It’s gonna come down to sells. Ideal situation is both games sell well and they can reuse art asserts and possibly even certain mechanics for both.
>>86827194>Pick your choice of USSR, Nazi Germany, Communist China (or Imperial china really), Nationalist Imperial Japan, Khmer RougeAs much as all of those regimes did evil things (EVERY nation in human history did evil things) all of them, even the most wicked and evil, did try to do good things, or did their evil in an effort to lead to something. The USSR, Japan, and Germany are the top three evil regimes in your list, yet they all tried to do constructive things. Hitler revitalized the Germany economy, built unheard of infrastructure, and was an animal rights activist. Stalin brought railroads, electricity, and schools out to places that never had them, and also revitalized Russia's economy. Japan went from a literal medieval feudal nation to a major world power in a few decades, and its people had insane prosperity.I'll admit I'm biased, I'm an impfag who generally likes portraying the Empire as being better, still doing some evil shit but overall trying to be Palpatine's idea of a perfect society that needs to crack some eggs to make an omelette, but even if you see it as pure evil from top to bottom, I think what that anon and others mean is that the Empire should have some constructive elements, some things that can make it obvious why people would support it.Take Caesar's Legion in Fallout, which is argued a ton over whether or not it's good or evil. Regardless of which side you fall on (assuming you give a shit), it's objective fact that there -are- things about it that are good. Even people who hate it in-game say it does some good shit. The Legion's lands are safer than anywhere else around, free of drugs and raiders. There's minimal corruption, and Caesar's leaders are all seemingly selflessly devoted to the cause. Traders from the NCR itself often prefer business with the Legion.(cont)
>>86827302The Empire has or had some of that, but Disney's erased it, and there are multiple anons who prefer it that way. They want the Empire as awful and comically evil as possible, and that's fine, no one's trying to stop them, but many of those same anons aren't the same way, and think anyone who thinks the Empire's in any way even slightly good, or anything that makes it even slightly good, is some kind of nerd wrongthink.
>>86827302>>86827309Though I meant to put Communist China as being in there too, and it may even be the worst on the list in terms of sheer number of innocent people massacred. But even Mao in all his self-centered sadistic narcissism at least -thought- he was making China better, and didn't see himself as a villain.
>>86826895If we're talking about non-SSDs only, the Tector. SSDs included, it's the Bellator for me.
>book version of rise skywalker apparently puts the potential number of xystons on exegol to 10k>each has a crew just short of 30k>just about 15 hundred million short of needing 300 million people to crew all of it it>all of it wiped out in one day>huge portion being effectively sith jugendApperently they were still in the process of doing the last touch ups and supplying the necessary crew so some of them probably ran on skeleton grews, but even if it was only half that number, we're looking at about 150 million dead teenagers. Then throw in the likely massive casualties on the space angry mob side, because you don't attack 10k capital ships shitting out 720k ties and get blasted by space magic without taking a lot of casualties.If Exegol wasn't already haunted as fuck, I'd imagine it is now.
>>86827194>and yeah, it's one of it's core elementEmpire being racist was never a thing before some lefty EU writers got worried people would support it, so they started coming up with inane reasons to make it seem more evil.
>>86827302>The USSR, Japan, and Germany are the top three evil regimes in your listI don't know anon, I would say purposefully killing like 5% of their own population then starving another 15% (again, semi-purposefully) make Khmer Rouge a good contender, they are less often talked about, but living under the regime was soo mindblowingly miserable and horrifying, when communist vietnam invaded, the population runned toward, then past the invading army because whatever was on the other side, it was better than living under the Red Khmer.
>>86827347Yeah, the Khmer might've been the most deliberately, senselessly sadistic, between them and Japan anyway.
>>86827332The utter scale of stupidity of Disney's canon will never stop being astounding.
>>86827394Shit like that is why ignore most hard numbers in space operas. Shit gets retarded. Apparently according to the book, there where also other huge winning smile powered fleets rising up and taking out first order forces across the galaxy off screen. To the NR and FO were both defeated in huge but short off screen galaxy spanning wars.The ability to destroy a planet and the power of the force are insignificant next to Lando's winning smile.
>>86827332It's just a phylactery juice.
>>86827394They can’t World build, which is fucking them up. They already need to consider a reset just because they’ve botched the setting to a point it makes no sense and they have writers stepping on each others toes.
>>86827497>>86827524It's like literal kid playing with toys-tier.>and then the big ship blowed up but the BIGGERER ship showed up with five BILLION ships and fifty GAZILLION dudes
>>86827547Not an issue ostensibly, in this case.Or at least were it to be handled properly.
>>86827555Nah, the scale's just unjustifiable.
>>86827564Not justifiable by what metric? Did you try to at least approximate?
>>86827571By the metric of reason. An uninhabited planet with thousands of giant battleships cannot possibly be reasoned.
>>86827302I think you're confusing the concept of nuance with the idea of a faction being evil. Hitler making the Autobohn doesn't make him not evil. It does make the Nazi regime slightly nuanced- since we wouldn't really say the Autobohn itself is evil, even though the Nazi's made it.>>86827316Nicest thing you can say about Mao is he stabilized China. Which yes, China suffered a lot under Mao, but China had been in a state of civil war and anarchy since Yuan Shikai tried to declare himself Emperor. The Chinese were desperate for any government to just keep all of China (or since Taiwan is independant, 90%) and keep the Japanese out. >>86827524I really feel like the Sequels are an exercise in the exact opposite approach to modern day franchise building. Like it was generated by an AI who saw what the hallmarks were of big budget franchises, but didn't understand what made them good or why they were done in the first place.
>>86827500Can't list every crazy regime out there anon, I would never be finished and I would need to delve into all the crazy fucked up shit Mesopotamian king with weird names did to each other every sunday.
>>86827617I think that's what that anon and myself were talking about, wanting the Empire to be nuanced. To have good, bad, and neutral parts to it instead of just evil, and to have its goals be something beyond "muahahaha im gonna go kick a puppy."
>>86827581Anything can be reasoned. Surely a tabletop player like you can understand this?
>>86827665I prefer logical, well-constructed settings, and details within those settings.
>>86827672So do I, but just because logic isn't necessarily shown, doesn't mean there's none.You're talking about a man more capable than most who made a galactic empire and tried to make a shot at making life on more than one occasion.We never seen true extent of anything he did or any of his installations, so there's room for humongousness.
>>86827641I mean to me the goal was simple, complete control of the galaxy, where the very idea of revolt no longer exists and where Palpatine and his chosen cronies are the only ones who even know what the force is. Everything is in service to this goal, or a reaction to not attaning this goal. The death star was a classic sith lord effort at achieving total subjugation via fear, and a great deal of the empires cruelty was a means of funneling labor and resources into the project. That Sidious was also a sadist was also a factor, but not the only one, he wanted to control the galaxy, not destroy it. But he also had no intention of the galaxy carrying on without him, hence the lack of any succession plan and his various efforts at immortality. The Galaxy was his toy, nobody else's, issue is many sith habitually break their own toys when left alone too long.
>>86827690A giant fleet of ISDs around Coruscant I could buy. A giant fleet of ISDs on an uninhabited ocean world with no means of supply, repair, or manufacture just sitting there for decades I can't, or ships larger than multiple planets like the Supremacy made by a faction with barely any manufacturing capability or manpower.It's called "asspulling".
>>86827707I can, if it's some Palps personal resource for emergencies, but there better be a reason why they weren't around during Yavin or other important times.
>>86827707The supremacy is only the size of a city, but it really should have been the biggest thing the First Order Had. They really should have focused on bigger punch in smaller package for their hardware, learn the rebel lesson, stormtroopers would have been actual elites while droids would be used as the fodder
>>86827702>I mean to me the goal was simple, complete control of the galaxy, where the very idea of revolt no longer exists and where Palpatine and his chosen cronies are the only ones who even know what the force isThe goal was complete control to shepherd others to a better existence. Palpatine saw himself as a savior, legitimately, and thought he was doing everyone a favor.>The death star was a classic sith lord effort at achieving total subjugation via fear,Fear and awe, specifically instead of violence as well. Every government requires the fear of reprisal to exist, and his was just on a galactic scale. It's not a Sith thing either, the Jedi were much more subtle, but they did the same thing. You fuck around too much, you get a lightsaber through the gut, and we can read your mind, so don't lie.>That Sidious was also a sadist was also a factor, but not the only one, he wanted to control the galaxy, not destroy itI think he was somewhat sadistic, yeah, but not an outright sadist. His goal wasn't to inflict cruelty, he just had no issues doing so to further his goals.>But he also had no intention of the galaxy carrying on without him, hence the lack of any succession plan and his various efforts at immortality.Disney stuff. He had lines of succession planned before, he just never intended to die. He considered the possibility though, and the succession efforts were pretty sloppy at best.>The Galaxy was his toy, nobody else's, issue is many sith habitually break their own toysNever an interpretation I've liked, and mostly Disney from as far as I know. Palpatine shouldn't be a petulent literally autistic manchild, he should be a masterful Machiavellian schemer who embodies the full extent of the ends justifying the means, "I will save the galaxy and everyone in it and they'll all thank me one day, seeing me as the hero I am, even if I have to drag them kicking and screaming in the present." It's not a matter of "The galaxy is my toy it's mine mine mine."
Uh, is it red, red, green, or red, green, red.
>>86827741I have never gotten any inclination that he had any care for the galaxy beyond possessiveness, even the pre-Disney works he wanted immortality, and in the plagus book we see in his youth he was a cruel boy who would run over pedestrians with hes swoop bike just for fun. All of my interpretation is based on pre-Disney info.
>>86827721>personal resourceYes, because Palpatine just had a gigantic doom fleet sitting underwater on a remote planet fully manned and operational at all times despite having no clear means of supply, maintenance, or food and drinking water, and it remained fully manned and operational for decades after the Empire ceased to exist.
>>86827762>in his youth he was a cruel boy who would run over pedestrians with hes swoop bike just for funNo, he accidentally hits two people and while he's not guilty about doing so, he doesn't think it's funny, he worries it'll hurt his chances at becoming a professional racer. It's more him being a shitnosed spoiled kid than a sadistic psycho-in-the-making.
>>86827748And he's supposed to be the demolition expert....
>>86827741>I think he was somewhat sadistic, yeah, but not an outright sadist.Yes, he was an incredibly vanilla man. Really, a classics afficionado, very 70s-80s.
>>86827771Okay fair point on that. I was misremembering, but I really never get any altruistic vibes from his goals for the galaxy, he says alot about safety and security, but in my read it always came off as an excuse, a justification he was inventing, especially as the empire was routinely bad at keeping anything secure for the people.
>>86827735>The supremacy is only the size of a cityMaybe a state. It's many times the size of an Executor and probably even stupider and more impractical and inefficient than nu-Palp's gigantic waterfleet.
>>86827763Local supply means, naturally.Literally a separately constructed area, droid factories and all.
>>86827796My main forgiveness of it is that the first order having one single uber ship as their mobile capital makes sense, at least for the original junta interpretation they had before all sense was tossed out
>>86827309I'm really not seeing this alleged population who want the Empire to be professionally comically evil as you suggest. I think the problem is that the stories we see in Star Wars will always be stories of someone whose life is changed for the worse by the Empire, or will be on the unpleasant coalface of the Empire. We won't see the story of Phil Informs, Alsakan Bureaucrat whose comfortable Core World desk job is well financed by Imperial taxes, and his whole life insulated from the cruelty imposed on others because he simply never hears of it. For such a person, the Empire likely has been a net positive over the Republic as it was towards its end. But he sits nearer the top of a pile, with those further down it being held down by force.I think Andor as a whole did a good job of portraying the Empire as an unfeeling institution built on a foundation of small evils, which accumulate to a much greater evil scheme. Take Aldhani; the Empire displaced the locals from the Highlands, forcing them into lowland settlements where they just so happened to find work in newly establish enterprise zones (convenient!). The Imperial garrison present hates the deployment and by extension the locals, the commandant boasts of how they've been suppressing local traditions, and you have Imperial fighter pilots sweeping over the few people who still live in the Highlands. The prison complex is the same, a series of small evils which stack upon each other to become a terrible machine, but one where a conscious choice has been made to have it be so. Such a prison could have been positively humane (by comparison) had proper medical care been available, if being shocked was only for flagrant disobedience etc, but the Empire doesn't care, and those enforcing the system either don't care or feel powerless to change it.
>>86827814Honestly cold bureaucratic evil scares me more than flashy space wizard evil
yril became a man , in taking action and almost (and probably in future) taking the girl. Speaking of Dedra , it is obvious that she was as clumsy as Syril in field operations. Getting inside a possible hot zone action with a white Imperial Gestapo uniform and coat ? Was she trying to get herself killed ? She was almost lynched. She and Syril deserve each other in darkness though it was amusing she did not even know how to thank properly.
>>86827791No problem.>he says alot about safety and security, but in my read it always came off as an excuse, a justification he was inventingIt might've been. A lot of cruel leaders do the same thing. He could've been legit, I think it's up to the reader/viewer and what they do or don't consider canon.>especially as the empire was routinely bad at keeping anything secure for the people.I think that's more of a consequence of the Empire a) being the antagonist and having most stories putting it into a villainous light for the purpose of conflict and b) very few stories dealing with anything but the wartorn, frontier, or otherwise contested planets. We never get much insight on how the average day to day civilian lives under the Empire. My personally preferred source would be the FFG games, which also don't deal with peaceful, closer-to-Core worlds, but generally it seems for most people life didn't change much under the Empire thanks to the laissez-faire policy of planetary governing, infrastructure, trade, and industry saw improvements, and piracy and crime were significantly reduced depending on where you were. Not like the Empire became a paradise (nor were the Old or New Republics) but it does seem more believable and reasonable than nucanon, which portrays literally every world as under a violent military occupation.
>>86827741Dark side corruption is still a thing.
>>86827302Something to nuance, is that for exemple, nazi germany "economic revitalization" was due a lot to thing established before they reached power, reaping the fruits of things they didn't do. Also it was kind of a bubble they intended to solve by pillaging their neighboor. Japan industrialisation was the work of the Imperial restauration, the nationalist was just the consequences of a military junta taking power and they proceeded to ruin everything by fucking up their diplomatic relationship with everyone and runned their economy in the ground with a retarded war based on crazy racial ideology.But anyway, to quote the showmaker>But I’m stunned by how much I enjoy watching ISB Supervisor Dedra Meero (Denise Gough). So why did you want to put the audience in the shoes of a fascist?>G: Well, I want to be in everybody’s shoes. The whole gig is empathy. I mean, that’s what the gig is. If you’re going to do it well, you’ve got to be with everybody. I can’t imagine writing a character where I couldn’t get behind their point of view for the moment I was with them. When we wrote her and built her out, we had the exact same experience that the audience is having. We were like, “Oh my God, she’s this woman who’s trapped in this thing, and there’s only one other woman who works there. She’s also working harder than everybody else, and she’s getting no credit. She’s a freaking underdog. We’re rooting for her. How do we make her strong?” And then we got to Ferrix, and we’re like, “Oh my God, look at her. What is she doing?” There has to be another term for walking in someone’s shoes. You don’t have to endorse somebody’s thinking, philosophy, sadism or whatever, but you’ve got to get in there and be with them if you really want to have a strong character.
>>86827814>I think the problem is that the stories we see in Star Wars will always be stories of someone whose life is changed for the worse by the Empire, or will be on the unpleasant coalface of the EmpireWhich is what's unfortunate, and what some people want to change or wish was different, hence why we run games or see the setting differently.>I think Andor as a whole did a good job of portraying the Empire as an unfeeling institution built on a foundation of small evilsThe Empire being largely amoral and bureaucratic is the way it should go IMO, not "oh look at the empire being evil for no reason in different areas because it's evil." The protest attack makes sense, the stormtroopers were literally attacked first and there are many historical examples of soldiers opening fire on civilians who instigate a fight and the rightness or wrongness of it's debatable. The rest I can't say much on. I don't like any of Disney's setting and I've not watched nor plan to watch any of its shows. I saw TFA, I saw snips from comics and books, and some scenes from RO and the Mandalorian, and it's all I needed to see to know it's definitely not for me.
>>86827826You should love Andor then.
>>86827853>why did you want to put the audience in the shoes of a fascistThat question alone makes me both lament modern media and disregard the whole rest of the interview. I'm not even a fascist, I think it's just communism with a different multiplayer color, but what "fascist" actually means and what it means to people who go "hurrrr why u make us watch fashist gurl????" are two completely different things.>was due a lot to thing established before they reached power, reaping the fruits of things they didn't do. Also it was kind of a bubble they intended to solve by pillaging their neighboor.Not really. The Weirmar Republic was in shambles for its entire existence. It was only under the Nazi party that it started rebuilding, and went from one of the poorest countries in Europe in the early 30s to the second richest country on Earth by 1939. Again, not a fascist, nazi, whatever, it's all communist shit to me, but just saying.
>>86827837The FFG Sourcebooks do a good job of explaining that in the Core, the Empire is much better established & integrated into government, so it doesn't *need* to have jackboots on the street as it does further out, which combined with tight media control and the economic benefits of the Empire meaning those 'back home' are comfortable with the New Order. In that regard, I don't think NuCanon is any different to the old.>>86827826I entirely agree. I also appreciated Andor showing the ISB to be a competitive but not oppressively vindictive organisation. It is good to know that even in the Evil Spy Agency you can still have a good line manager (even if he really needs those reports on his desk by Monday).
>>86827911Low key the political conflict in star wars always boils down to the disparity between the core and the rim, with the core Invariably serving as a bloated tumor on the center of current regime.
Friendly reminder that nuWars is gay and not canon
And the we have the other end of the bell curve DARK GREETINGS
>>86827856>Empire being largely amoralI think that's part of the thing, alot ofbpeople consider amorality itself a form of evil
>>86827878Facism is a term that exist in a historical context and is often misused (both because it is generaly innacurate and irrelevant ; and because revendicating facism in 2022 is as retarded as simping for a 19th century leader), on that I agree, but you should not get your panties in a twist over it, especially not to the point of ignoring the actual important part of the interview.
>>86827959Trioculus works as an over the top anomaly, an example of the remnant slurping up darkside cult kool-aid to its own detriment.
>>86827911>In that regard, I don't think NuCanon is any different to the old.For some reason most nucanon material I've seen involving the Mid and closer rims portray everywhere as a military junta at pretty much all times.>the Empire is much better established & integrated into governmentThis does make me wonder. I've read an argument before that most, if not all of the Empire's supposed evil is in response to people rebelling or fighting it. That's not to say responding with overwhelming oppression is a good thing, but it does make me wonder if the galaxy just accepted the Empire, how well off would it be. The Republics, old and new, never tried, both because they lacked the strength to do it and because they didn't wanna bother, seeing it as a lost cause to try to secure the whole galaxy - which maybe it is.>>86827847Dark side's not inherently corruptive or evil, depending on your interpretation and which lore bits you follow anyway. It does open you up to more extremes of thinking and feeling though, but that's not always evil. For one Sith lord it made him ultrapassionate about reading and knowledge to the point he spent all his time amassing a library and being a bookworm.>>86827979I looked at the rest of it, and it just seems like some pretty bogstandard corpo virtue signalling, largely focusing on (their idea of) feminism more than anything else, or acting like audiences would be shocked and dumbfounded that an Imperial character isn't being portrayed as a bloodthirsty lunatic as if it's unthinkable, when there've been "the Empire is right" fanboys since 1977. Shit, when there've been normal, not-evil Imperial characters onscreen since 1977 even.
>>86827836Ironic, considering that in episode 4 Major Partagaz comments that she came to them from "enforcement," implying she had field experience. Maybe all that time behind a desk dulled her senses.
>>86828003Imperial Officier where breed and tamed to obey insane dark wizard like figure and their mind was trying to fill a Palpatine shapped hole with anything that would fit.
>>86828029>Dark side's not inherently corruptive or evil
>>86827856I think the challenge with trying to present the Empire in a 'better' light is that is requires a severe rewrite of how the Empire fundamentally works. Just going by the OT, it is an institution which wanted a planet-killer, and once it was ready disbanded the civil political body and replaced them with directly appointed military governors. The course of an amoral bureaucracy can be altered by non-military means, but the Empire can't be swayed by such an approach because it rules by diktat.>>86827878When the general public look at the Empire, they see fascism, even if the ideological underpinnings and politics are not a direct fit. The average person isn't going to do a deep dive to get the exact terminology correct. They see a dictatorial government, fancy uniforms and an overabundance of military force, and go "Eh, close enough".
>>86828029>Dark side's not inherently corruptive or evilAnd opinion discardedThe whole point is that the darkside lures with the promise of control and power and agency over the force, only for the use of selfish passions and impulse to turn you into the same boilerplate template supervillain every time someone tries it. The one time the sith were functional was when there were sith knights who were only sith out of factional loyalty and were functionally just jedi on the wrong side.
>>86828029>largely focusing on (their idea of) feminism more than anything elseI'm sorry anon, but I have no idea how anyone could look a Dedra arc and come up with "It's about feminism" as a conclusion. It's LITTERALY the false-flag the show intend you to fall for before pulling the rug under you with the actual point of her arc.
>>86828045Yes, it isn't. All the two sides of the Force boil down to is self-restraint and peace, and self-expression and passion. One deadens you to the extremes of emotion, but also can deaden your regular emotions. The other enhances the extremes of your emotions, which can either result in triumph or disaster. Neither is good or evil on the surface.
>>86828040That much is true. The successful remnants were the ones who only held professional loyalty to the emperor, and ideological loyalty to the empire itself.
>>86828064So you're saying that, rather than murder a couple dozen children, Anakin could have increased his power in the Dark Side by... singing show tunes?
>>86828091He's missing the point, the selfish posessive aspect of the darkside is built around corruptive influence, like a drug you always need more, and more until you have destroyed all that you loved for it.
>>86828064No, they are powered and controlled by those, but they have strict operational definitions, and dark side is literally an inverse of it, that eventually consumes all but the strongest, and warps those who're left alive.Dark side isn't about passion, dark side is about applying passion where one shouldn't, until it creates feedback loops.
>>86826895when I was a kid I liked the basic triangle star destroyer the best because it was the one I never had any micro machines of, whereas I always had the super star destroyer onenow though I like the super star destroyer the best, with venator a close second
>>86828104I've said this before, youth is wanting to use dark powers without being evil, maturity is recognizing you dont need them.
>>86828107>micro machinesA true connoisseur.
>>86828029Honestly, from all my reading the situation in almost every story both old and nu I've read can be summed up as this:>Things were fine in our Mid/Outer Rim world. Not perfect, but fine.>Empire rocks up, gives us Diet Oppression (some land seizure, nationalisation etc etc)>People protest by peaceful means. Letters are written, public meetings are held etc.>Empire progresses to Oppression Max (all of the oppression, none of the calories). Boots are on the street, public figures arrested, civil liberties curtailed>STORY STARTS HEREBy the end of a story, the Empire will typically have progressed to Full Fat Oppression in response to the failure of whoever is in charge to clamp down on whatever is happening, but the problems started all the way back when the Empire rolled in, did whatever the hell they wanted, and shat on everyone on the planet. We aren't seeing the Empire consulting with local leaders to deliver new hospitals or to replace aging infrastucture, we're seeing Imperial Govenors setting production targets and relying on force to ensure compliance. To say "Oh, it would all be fine if no-one resisted!" is effectively saying "Don't cry, or I'll punch you again."
>>86828054I don't really agree that a lot of work has to be done. The Empire being an authoritarian organization doesn't inherently mean it's evil. Government system alone doesn't dictate morality, or general rightness/wrongness.> it is an institution which wanted a planet-killerThat can and has been reasoned as being the equivalent of a galaxy-nuke, also doubling as a battlestation and research station.>and once it was ready disbanded the civil political body and replaced them with directly appointed military governorsThat was in response, at least ostensibly, to Rebel infiltration of the Senate, which whether or not you believe Palps would've done it anyway, we know for a fact the Rebels -were- infiltrating the Senate and some of its most influential members were secretly Rebels.>When the general public look at the Empire, they see fascismFair.>>86828063The interviewer/interviewee keeps talking about how she's a woman, and the only other woman, and how is this woman here, and oh man why is this woman here, she's the only other woman, and so on. It's very obviously a (modern) feminist puffpiece/virtue signal, to me anyway.>>86828089I think it does seem clear, even in the minds of some EU writers who were dead set on Empire = evil, that when separated from its original top leaders, led by men who believed in its core principles, it could make a good, stable, secure, and orderly society, so the inherent tenets of the Empire aren't evil even to those writers I'd say.
>>86828091>murder a couple dozen childrenA couple dozen child soldiers.>Anakin could have increased his power in the Dark Side by... singing show tunes?Maybe. Probably. Palpatine was big into drama and stage plays, maybe he would've been a playwright if he hadn't gotten political power.>>86828104Again, at the base of both is just passion vs. self-restraint. That's my preferred interpretation anyway, there's others you can draw from, and if you care about Lucas's own word he flipflopped on whether the Light and Dark were sides that needed to be balanced, or if Light was balance, or whatever. I prefer what Kyle says in JKA>(after mentioning dark side powers the player can take) The Force is neither good nor evil, it's how you use it.
>>86826895Secutor, it is my boi
unironic imperial fanboys are weird as fuckthey create this whole other setting in their head and insist its canon
>>86828195Force operates on mental mechanics, there's no room for interpretation or grey jedi as imagined by most.Either one works in its paradigm, uses a corrupted variant, or tries to get overcome both to get out.
>>86827787Since they’re only pulling against air resistance and static inertia, could those Stormtroopers pull a Star Destroyer?
>>86828171To be fair, while there was some peaceful protests and petitions, that's not what sparked the Empire's increasing oppression, it was the violent military resistance or terrorist-tier dissent that did. Like I said before other people resisting doesn't give you the right to just go full balls to the wall on them, but at the same time, I'm not sure how you could say it's completely evil. Writing letters and such is one thing, but is it right - even if they're ignored - to step up to violence and attacks? And even if it was right, can you blame the ruling power for responding in kind? It's not like you should just be able to gun down some stormtroopers and have the Empire go "oh shit u right senpai guess we were a lil too bad dw bout it we'll pull out and your planet can do w/e it wants."Again, whether you think the Empire's totally evil or not, it retaliating against violent resistance shouldn't be something you consider evil about it IMO.
>>86828171I mean, you could just stop crying
>>86828212Pull? Yes, Pull with results?If its repulsorlifts are in the right setting in relation to surroundings, so yes.
>>86826895The Venator and the Imperial are both cool for me.
>>86828206>there's no room for interpretation or grey jedi as imagined by most.In your opinion.>>86828204Tbf that's what everyone has to do. If you really took all of Star Wars' content as canon, either EU/Legends or NU/Disney, you'd be left with a bloated, nonsensical mess of a setting that borders on total incoherence. If you don't take different pieces of lore and pick and choose, you're doing it wrong I feel.Sure, you have to ignore a lot to say the Empire's not evil, but then again, that's what you should be expected to do by default. Ignore the canon you don't like, or rather, ignore all canon and only pick what you do like, because at the end of the day, if you stick to all the canon you have to also accept Jefferson Starship does tours, Chewie's dad jerked off in his living room to an erotic music video, there's a mountain with a giant face that cries, and there was a Resistance fart fetish wedding.
>>86828218yeah, lick the boot
>>86828175There is no 'reasoning' the Death Star, aside as a terror-weapon to wield against a disenfranchised population. As for the Senate, the only reason 'Rebels' were present in it was because the Empire crushed any and all avenues for legitimate political dissent. If you make disagreeing with Imperial policy a crime punishable by having a Star Destroyer landed on top of you, you've crossed a threshold between amoral and uncaring to malice and evil.As for the successor states; they were led by men who realised that mindlessly copying the Empire would get them killed because it wouldn't work, so there was no harm in actually trying to apply the values the New Order claimed to follow in its propaganda.
>>86828241>i'm too enlightened to lick palpatine's boot>that's right anon, now go do what i say until it's pegging time>y-y-yes mommy mothma whatever you say
>>86828241>punches againI said stop crying!
>>86828238No, not in opinion. Force is consistently shown to be the same in all works.There's room to implement things in spite of it, or make personal force analogues, but it doesn't operate on balances between light and dark, as the latter came later, which in turn may very well create the former, and practically both can be extinguished.
>>86828254>There is no 'reasoning' the Death Star, aside as a terror-weapon to wield against a disenfranchised populationAny more than a nuke is a terror-weapon to curtail dissent.>As for the Senate, the only reason 'Rebels' were present in it was because the Empire crushed any and all avenues for legitimate political dissentNo it didn't. While the media was generally censored, you could protest and write letters and shit, and the Senate could make proposals or give advice to Palpatine. What got it full of Rebels was a mix of decent folk seeing the Empire as oppressive but their requests for redress getting ignored, along with a large number of Old Republic senators who wanted their old power and influence back, general opportunists seeking to gain something from a Rebel victory, and a few straight-up terrorists. It wasn't that the Empire forbade any expression of disagreement, it's that those expressions of disagreement were ignored.>so there was no harm in actually trying to apply the values the New Order claimed to follow in its propaganda.Men like Pellaeon and Kane didn't follow the Empire's tenets because "oh well, nothing else worked, let's use this BS propaganda I guess", they genuinely believed in them, as did many. Shit, even Tarkin and Palpatine did depending on the source, they just saw no action as too far to secure those tenets.
>>86828299>Force is consistently shown to be the same in all worksI'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. It might be THE most inconsistent thing in the entire setting.
>>86828305>Any more than a nuke is a terror-weapon to curtail dissent.nukes have never been leveraged against a country's own civilian population
>>86828030Of course "enforcement," could mean many things. Like you could say Cyril also came from "enforcement,".
>>86828323Do you think if half of the US or Russia seceded from itself and declared war on the other half that nukes wouldn't be threatened?
>>86828312And where did you find those inconsistencies? Name at least one that didn't fit in what it could do.By mere kinetic manipulation alone there's little that the force can't do, and in actuality it might as well be limitless, however mechanics on light and dark were always consistent.
>>86828334Only if leadership is incompetent. When the Union fell, the matter was handled with care.
>>86828216I don't think anyone would argue that the Empire wouldn't retaliate to open armed uprisings. That would be dumb. The problem is that the Empire as an institution doesn't have the 'release valves' to prevent such incidents occurring. They don't listen to the people they hurt with their actions, or consider their opinions before acting. The Empire wants something, it takes the thing. There is no method by which the people can change this, outside of force of arms. There is no court of law, no accountability, and civil disobedience is crushed.It would be a bit like me driving a bulldozer up to your home, and slowly but inevitably moving towards it. You ask me to stop, I decline and crush the fence. You *tell* me to stop and threaten to call the police. I laugh, saying the police work for me as I flatten your front garden and edge towards the building proper. Am I evil for firing back at you when you grab a gun to defend your home, or am I evil for setting this entire mess in motion in the first place?
>>86828337The idea that Light and Dark aren't inherently good or evil is repeated across multiple pieces of media, with the only thing consistent about Dark being that it can draw you to more extremes of sensation/emotion, but even then that's shown to not always be bad - see Darth Vivus or whatever his name was.As far as Light and Dark being a self-relying balance, that's been said as well, including by Lucas (though he changed his mind constantly, and is also the ewoks guy so). The latest example I can think of from before Disney lore was that Clone Wars cartoon where Anakin meets actual embodiments/avatars of the Force, with a single neutral father and two kids representing Light and Dark. Dark is well-meaning but becomes fixated on his ambitions, but without him Light becomes distraught and feels empty.
>>86828354inb4 its the republic's fault
>>86828354>There is no court of law, no accountability, and civil disobedience is crushed.There are courts though, tons and tons of courts and laws, and accountability varies. Remember in the majority of cases under both the Senate and Moff system most planets were allowed to self-govern, receiving Imperial protection when needed so long as they paid taxes. Otherwise, they could call their own shots. Contrary to Disney's worse - IMO - canon, the Empire didn't literally send military forces to every single planet in the galaxy and force them at gunpoint to join or die. In the majority of cases, people just joined willingly, and in the FFG books I think it was said that in some Outer Rim places, a lot of people didn't even know they had a new government for a while. I'm not saying the Empire wasn't heavyhanded, it was, but it also didn't just up and forcefully subjugate everyone in the galaxy. Almost everyone who came into it did so willingly, and the majority of them weren't even placed under heavier authority. Pay your taxes, we'll defend you and let you be. It's actually mentioned in the WEG books, where the Empire is several times made cartoonishly evil, that they didn't even restrict gun rights on most planets, and were actually even less restrictive on frontier worlds because they encouraged planetary defense militias.>Am I evil for firing back at you when you grab a gun to defend your home, or am I evil for setting this entire mess in motion in the first place?If I move into your city and agree to your authority, repeatedly ignore your requests, then threaten you when you show up, I dunno if that makes either of us good or evil, but you're well within reason to retaliate.
>>86828365Light excess leading to corruption is similar as dark side mechanically, it's a deviation. It's not about an inherent moral character, as that would instantly run into odds with natural life, which is all over the place, but rather the way dark side breaks away from the force at large.The reason why Sith say dark side is stronger is because they through their will take force into their own reigns, which leaves them in control with more resources, whereas Jedi can only call on when things are right.You can see it when Sidious died (somehow he didn't, but that's beside the point), an explosion of light happened.Taking that light, warping it until it's only a shadow of itself, a self consuming hunger that does all that force does, but ultimately emptier, draining, like a warping point, predicated on means and foundation by which it was corrupted from the main line, is what the dark side is.It's a partially artificial construct, at least concerning actual Sith methods, rather than whatever inherent emerging sides there are in the inherent boundary between the force and an individual sapient mind.
>>86827641Wanting to see good and neutral people in the Empire is fine, since yeah it'll be hard to staff it with exclusively evil people. But in terms of having real goals, we should remember the whole thing was orchestrated by an evil space wizard. The Empire didn't arise naturally from it's circumstance, its circumstances were engineered by a Sith Lord to create his own personal fiefdom.>>86827836The panic she displayed made it clear she'd never been close to real danger before. Cyril by contrast was a pencil pusher who while he made a bunch of wrong calls trying to apprehend Andor, did everything by the book, and exercised what I think was reasonable caution and good leadership during the whole situation. If anything he should have been commended since he did everything right according to the information he had available. It's just that even if you do everything right with the information available it doesn't mean you won't still outright lose, but the Empire doesn't tolerate failure.
>>86828354This all comes from the Empire arguing everything it does is legal, because the Empire writes all the laws. The next question is whether it was legal or not for the Republic to be transformed into the Empire.>>86828411"That is impossible. How will the emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?""Regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line."
>>86828365If you recall those aren't merely embodiments.Those are the last celestials that haven't left and picked up roles, one can say. There were more once, the pool that made Abeloth is still a thing, and removing those ostensibly deities will do nothing to the force at large, it'll still shall exist.
>>86828443I disagree. It's more that the majority of calm, well-meaning people probably don't care so much about passion or going to extremes to do something, good or bad, in life, so either no side at all or Light draws them. Meanwhile, generally people with strong wills and limitless ambition are who want to impose their ideas on other things, so they're drawn to the Dark. Neither side is good or evil, both have their downsides when taken to the extreme, but while Dark isn't evil, it's more useful for evil people than Light. It all comes down to the individual and what they use their abilities for. The Force itself is a basically-mindless energy field. It knows nothing but existence, let alone a concept of morality, and it's not even particularly supernatural, even before the midichlorians shit being able to be studied and observed in some cases. I personally prefer it more supernatural, but still.That's of course all just what I intepret and choose to believe based on my understanding of the setting, and I don't at all wanna claim you're wrong or shouldn't disagree with me yourself.
>>86828477Majority in SW is not force sensitive and doesn't needs to worry about a psychoreactive force floating over them like a metaphorical napalm bomb, necessitating some to adhere to strict dogmas and causing the other to toss it all aside and go nuts with passion. Jedi and Sith exist in its domain.
>>86828458>its circumstances were engineered by a Sith Lord to create his own personal fiefdom.It was created by a Sith Lord to form his vision of the ideal galactic government, where order and stability are placed above all else, and where Force-sensitive people can guide non-Force sensitives to achieve prosperity - whether they want it or not. Whether it's a morally righteous goal or not, it's still a goal that offers morally righteous opportunities to achieve it - truly keeping the peace, bringing order, bringing stability. Improving the economy. etc.>>86828464>"Regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line."Which, with further explanation, was referring to Outer Rim or other remote territories like Dantooine that had minimal, if any organized government, as well as rebellious territories, not all territories everywhere.
I don't want to be the anon who cried fascist, but you guys are arguing with a sincere, unironic fascist
>>86828477Morality isn't good and evil, and the force knows sufficient on its scale to discern its naturality and general natural order in its existence, as opposed to what some consider unnatural, which is something that can be even felt, so it's however mindless it may be, it's not bereft of structure.
>>86828501It seems difficult for you to imagine someone could have goals other than the benefit of other people.
>>86828477It is also more or less supernatural in it's operation, that's why it operates with material law the way it does.
>>86828507I'm not a fascist.>>86828523Not sure that's fair. You seem to be assuming the opposite, that there couldn't have been a single reason for the Empire besides one man to have a big toy to play with.
>>86828507nothing new in star wars threads
>>86828477Concurrently, no matter the reasons or motives some agent has, feeding an egregore that needs negative emotions more than not, and has a spiritual weight that more often than not subsumes all else, will eventually cause a degradation spiral, making it ultimately evil. Light has passion as well, but Dark is very specific in how those passions are experienced or applied.
>>86828411But you see, you never moved to my city. Hell, your family has lived in your home for generations! I'm just a guy with a bulldozer, slowly grinding up the flowerbed your grandmother cared for. This is why stories in Star Wars all tend to fit in the same niche. We don't hear the story of some guy across the country whose house is unbulldozed, because what is there to tell? He can quite happily comply with whatever I tell him to do, because I'm not imposing on him any more than the previous guy in charge. Such a story would be dull or pointless. You, on the other hand, are facing your home being demolished because I've decided that is the case. The police, the courts, every avenue you could exercise to appeal this impending flattening are under my control, and will agree my decision is correct.Am I evil yet?
>>86828238can't forget>EU>a force-sensitive droid is responsible for setting the entirety of the films into motion>a green cartoon rabbit is running around>minutes before confronting luke palpatine was frantically running around the death star which had been hacked by a droid who was closing doors in his face>also 5 other factions were fighting at endor>NU>there's a gay nudist imperial officer who tries to seduce a gay transsexual imperial officer>there's a pirate crew that bought a super star destroyer
>>86828539Every government claims it is based on this that and the other and that it exists for edifying reasons. You have to look at what governments do to understand why they really exist. In the case of the Empire the actions we see them take do fit with megalomaniacal conquest, but they do not fit with a sincere desire to improve the lot of ordinary people.
I think we should break up all central governments and live in feudal war times again
>>86828554>But you see, you never moved to my city. Hell, your family has lived in your home for generations!I'm clearly choosing to stay in your city despite your legal authority granting you the ability to do this.>Am I evil yet?You're an asshole, but you're not evil.>>86828547>vatnikCalling people vatniks is meaningless and makes you sound like a redditor who's only trying to stir shit up. Also, Ukraine's losing.
>>86828598>Calling people vatniks is meaningless and makes you sound like a redditor who's only trying to stir shit up. Also, Ukraine's losing.
>>86828598Oh, so you want to leave? Sorry, you aren't allowed to. I've declared your home is to be demolished, and you are to be moved to a new apartment, conveniently placed next to a business I own, which is good because you'll have to pay me rent for the home I've so kindly provided you.But I guess that's all fine, because I declared myself Grand Space Poohba, right?
>>86828674That sucks, but does it give me a right to murder you?
>>86828674All of it is perfectly fine, Grand Space Poohba! But have you considered the excessive luxury this plan allocates to the new apartments in the New Economic Development Zone? It would be much better for the plans to use these more cost effective furnishings from my cousin's space furniture emporium. They would be much more in line with the reasonable expectations of a Class 14 subject. Of course it might be too late to alter the budgeting of the plans, so we would have to perhaps split the saved money, yes?
>>86828705Given that my plan is to destroy your life and enslave you with no compensation or consideration? I think a jury (not selected by the Grand Space Poohba) would likely consider it self defence.
>>86828705when people say "Devil's Advocate", they don't actually mean "defend the Devil"using that "if you kill them you'll be just like them!" shitlib loser batman mentality against actual literal Satan marks you as one of two things: a buffoonish psychopath or a disingenuous troll, neither of which are good company to fellow humans
>>86828744>we're evicting you from your property and giving you a new residence>SATAN *opens fire*>later in court>"what do you mean it was murder?"
>>86827500>t. follower of Ahriman
>>86828758we're not talking about random dipshit assholes here, we're talking about Emperor Palpatinealso>giving you a new residenceUnmarked mass graves and zipties around your wrists do not constitute "a new residence", Herr Dirlewanger
>>86828571fucking this, actions louder than words, you need only see how comfortable they are looking at the pile of bodies to see, that the corpses are not the means, but the ends.
>>86828768The anon literally said "we're giving you a new apartment.">Herr Dirlewanger>anyone who likes the empire must be a naziThe nazis were corrupt communist shitheads who took one of the greatest nations in human history and ran it into the ground as part of a backroom deal. They traded with Western corporations the whole war. They were shit, and you need to stop thinking that because I root for a fictional government of spacemen that means it's part of your dumbass culture war. I'm anticom and that's the extent of my politics.
>>86828758>Wait, so they were going to demolish the home he owned.>Yep>How much were they going to pay in compensation?>Nothing.>And this new residence?>A small box bolted onto a business owned by the Poohba.>And they were going to force him to live there?>And make him pay rent.>....yeah, fuck the Poohba.Oh wait, sorry guys, we're supposed to be fine with this. ALL HAIL THE POOHBA!
>>86827853>You don’t have to endorse somebody’s thinking, philosophy, sadism or whatever, but you’ve got to get in there and be with them if you really want to have a strong character.Really I feel this is lost on many these days, not just in star wars.
>>86828780>you need only see how comfortable they are looking at the pile of bodies to see, that the corpses are not the means, but the ends.Good thing that never happens then.>>86828805>if i don't like something the government does it's completely justified to attack it with lethal forceOkay anon, whatever you say, but I wouldn't recommend trying that RL.
>>86828802You aren't being 'given' an apartment. You are being put in it. You don't have a choice. You will be in the apartment, you will work where the Poohba tells you, for the wages the Poohba gives you.The Poohba has brought order, peace and stability. Do not question the Poohba.
>>86828811>if i don't like something the government does it's completely justified to attack it with lethal forceyes, weren't you paying attention in school?
>>86828811>Good thing that never happens then.you are either trolling or have clinical brain damage, possibly both.
>>86828818>You are being put in it. You don't have a choice. You will be in the apartment, you will work where the Poohba tells you, for the wages the Poohba gives you.Good thing this doesn't actually happen very much at all according to the canon and is just a farcical scenario you cooked up in your head to justify your continual anger that somebody online likes the spacemen you don't like.
Does anyone give a shit about the new miniatures game by AMG?
>>86828811>if i don't like something the government does it's completely justified to attack it with lethal forceLiterally how the founding fathers intended it.
>>86828825Show me a scene in the movies where stormtroopers mow down civilians, throw them into a pile, and all the Imperial governors stand around and laugh at the sight of it.You're making increasingly farcical and disconnected situations up in your head to push a point that doesn't exist, that won't work to begin because the party you're trying to push your discombobulated point on don't care because they disagree with you in the first place.The proper response is "That's cool anon, what's your favorite ship? Anyone run any fun games recently?"
>>86828818I hate to be That Guy, but the term is "Pooh-Bah", named after the mock-Japanese name/title of a character in the Gilbert and Sullivan comic opera The Mikado, who, after the simultaneous resignation of the town of Titipu's government, ascended to all of those separate offices simultaneously (and their separate salaries) in his single person.
>>86828837The founding fathers were more corrupt and self-serving than you could possibly realize.Also>america does it so that means it's rightAlso>it's right to fight the government with lethal force if they do something you don't like!!!>...b-but not if you're a southerner in the 1860s, then you're just a traitor!!
>if i don't like something the government does it's completely justified to attack it with lethal force
>>86828844>Show me a scene in the movies where stormtroopers mow down civilians, throw them into a pile, and all the Imperial governors stand around and laugh at the sight of it.Goddamn you empire-apologists are the most obnoxious dumb niggers on the planet
>>86828822>>86828837>>86828854Remember the time a group of Continental Army vets gathered to protest against the new government not giving them the pensions and whiskey rations they'd been promised after the war? And the Founding Fathers' response was to send one of said Fathers with an army out to tell the protesters they'd all be shot and killed or imprisoned if they didn't stop protesting?
>>86828854>The founding fathers were more corrupt and self-serving than you could possibly realize.Correct>>america does it so that means it's rightCorrect>>it's right to fight the government with lethal force if they do something you don't like!!!>>...b-but not if you're a southerner in the 1860s, then you're just a traitor!!Correct
>>86828854>he's a Lost Causer tooAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
>>86828861>no stormtroopers around laughing>no imperial governors around laughing>two people>ignoring the source that says owen attacked the stormtroopers and was nonlethally restrained, and when they reported it to vader he ordered them killed under the false pretense of them being high-ranking rebels because he blamed them for his mom's death, but it was actually only half-false because both were actual rebel collaborators
>>86828885>but it was actually only half-false because both were actual rebel collaboratorsI think we can just cut that part out.
>>86828873>>86828879>time to larp as an exaggerated amerifag on 4chan
>>86828846ARREST THIS MAN FOR QUESTIONING THE GRAND SPACE POOHBA.>>86828830I mean, if we just write off the few cases of a species being declared non sentient, or entire populations being displaced, it is fine, right? I'm fine with people 'liking' the Empire for looking sweet in their uniforms and being the near-textbook definition of power-for-the-sake-of-power, but I find it odd how some people look at the way they wield power and say "Yep, I'd be fine with that being applied to me.">>86828831My Legion group is interested in it, because as cool as an 800pt Legion game is it takes up a fair bit of time in an evening, and the new game seems to be pitched at more the hour / hour and a half space allowing for more games.
>>86828885>Unironically defending the murder of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beruisn't it bedtime where you live Kirill Kirillovitch
>>86828873>if the government did something you don't like, attack it>but everything america does and says is right, and if you question it or don't like it, you deserve deathI know it's a shitpost but what if it isn't.
>>86828901>calling traitors and their sympathizers fags is exaggerated
>>86828906>if we just write off the few cases of a species being declared non sentient, or entire populations being displaced, it is fine, right?Because a few races out of hundreds and a few compulsory movements equate to "haha the empire kills everyone it sees and laughs!">>86828915I'm not defending it, I'm saying it wasn't just a casual mass killing by the Empire. And it wasn't entirely unjustified either. If you were a soldier going to investigate a possible high-level Rebel agent and the first thing you see is a dude running out trying to kill you, what would you do?
>>86828921>fight the government if it does anything you don't like>but never betray your government because you'd be a fagI say again that I know it's shitposting but what if it wasn't.
>>86828952>it's ok for the Empire to genocide whole planets as long as it's just a few of them, so that the Benthamite Utilitarian prerogative is maintainedPlease stop pursuing this train of thought, you are only embarrassing yourself and providing nothing of value to the thread. Everybody can see through your baldfaced and transparent pilpul tactics because we've seen them a million times before.
>>86828972>moving people is genocide>declaring a handful of races nonsentient but not killing them is still genocideYou also think I'm defending it. I'm not. I'm saying it's wholly different from the madeup scenarios you keep running through your head trying to reach for one-ups in the discussion.
>>86828986>moving people is genocide>declaring a handful of races nonsentient but not killing them is still genocideWhere did I say that in my post? Can you point it out to me? Because I'm having trouble finding it you dumb fuck gorilla vatnik cumguzzler. I'm sure the Lasat, Geonosians, and Alderaanians are fine with being "moved" as you euphemistically call it. Shut the fuck up.
>>86828952Hey, I'm Grand Space Poohba driving a bulldozer. I never said the Empire was murdering for fun and laughing. I just want to demolish your home, and force you to live in an apartment I own and compel you to work in a factory owned by a mate of mine.As for the Lars; you are fine with a government official ordering the execution of a family for an alleged failure in the past, with no due process or evidence of actual wrongdoing?
>>86829019>you are fine with a government official ordering the execution of a family for an alleged failure in the pastNo, but I'm saying it wasn't like the stormtroopers just walked up and started shooting, and they themselves didn't even want to carry out the execution, it was Vader's order. Even after Owen attacked them, the squad lead knocked him to the ground and restrained him, reporting to Vader they'd been attacked. Vader also claimed they were high-tier wanted-dead agents of the Rebellion.>with no due process or evidence of actual wrongdoing?To be fair, he did attack them, and if you consider RL, I think if a squad of troops found a man in the Middle-east who attacked them, and when they radioed to high command and got told he was a terrorist leader who needed shot on the spot, I don't think they'd question it either.>>86829013If you're not gonna civil, I'm not gonna continue the discussion.
>>86829019>>86829064It should also be mentioned that (I think in the same source) the reason the same stormtroopers gun down the Jawas is because when they asked to search their sandcrawler, the Jawas got violent and didn't just attack them, but started shooting at them.
>>86829064I've no idea where you are getting this "Owen attacked them" from. I've done a quick search, and the closest I can find is that Owen *might* have spat at the stormtroopers. This clearly warrants executing all present and burning their home down. Other sources list their deaths as either being a direct order from Vader, or as a result of a standing order to leave no witnesses for their hunt for the droids.But please, if you can direct the me to a source for this I'd be greatly appreciative.
>>86829106What I read was that Owen threw a punch at the Sergeant, who knocked him down and reported it to Vader. I'm not making it up, but I don't remember where it's specifically at, so feel free to take it with salt. If I remember it I'd tell you.
>>86829132The closest I've found (because hey, a mystery!) is from the Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina book, which tells events from the perspective of Mr "Look Sir, Droids!", where the Stormtroopers searched the Sandcrawler *then* killed all the Jawas after learning of the sale of the droids, and then proceeded to search the Lars Homestead before executing Owen & Beru after discovering Luke had vanished along with the droids. No mention of any violence from either the Jawa or Owen.
>>86829169After a look around I actually can't find anything that definitively says the Jawas attacked first, that seems to just be a theory some people have in discussions about it. The story about it doesn't say why they attacked the Jawas, but it seems the theories are>they believed the jawas knew about or may have downloaded the DS plans>they believed the jawas would spread the word that they were looking for something and alert rebel cells, intentionally or unintentionally>the jawas attacked them>the stormtroopers wanted no witnesses to their search (though this doesn't line up with how they behave later)
>>86828091>Anakin tries to stop dark side eating at him with increasingly chaotic behavior, singing strange tunes, talk like a madman, engage in seemingly random acts that serve some unseen far away purpose>as time goes on he goes from making others raise eyebrows in wonder or worry to straight up running away, calling military or medical services or shoot him out of fear>Palpatine is starting to get seriously disturbed
>>86828567>a force-sensitive droid is responsible for setting the entirety of the films into motionThis was never canon in any sense.
>>86829223The Tales account has the killing be due to not wanting any witnesses, with their captain ordering that they leave evidence it was a Tusken attack to cover their trail.
This kind of hours-long arguing is bad for anyone and everyone's mental health.Happy Thanksgiving, to all anons.
>>86827836Honestly thought he was gonna try and give her a awkward kiss, but I guess his tism isn’t that bad.
>>86829309I bid Dark Thanksgiving to all followers of Tioculus!
At what speeds space fighter combat actually happens? It's fast in the movies, but feels rather slow.
>>86829396I'll take Jedi Prince over this argument
>>86829258The same people who use this defense will immediately go on to say FACPOV proves Tarkin is gay
>>86828040you had me at>Imperial Officerand >Breedbut I'm not sure what you're talking about.
>>86826895>What's your favorite Star Destroyer variant? (Venator, Victory, Imperial, Executor, etc.)I like the Interdictor and immobilizer 418 the best.Should the Imperial Navy use 'Action Stations', 'General Quarters', or something else entirely?
>>86826895>What's your favorite Star Destroyer variant?I don't think the Raider counts, but it carries the spirit
>>86827309Only a short sighted fool would genuinely find the Empire good in setting lol, it's a failed state that speedran its own collapse in every continuityLike, Imperial copium is basically lost cause fanfiction, it never worked as a system despite starting with every advantageall of the fuck ups of the old republic but none of its pros
>>86826895Is Eclipse an ISD variant?
>>86827514the best kind of juice
>>86829592They use “Battle Stations” once in Rebels.Aside from that I think General Quarters is what the NRDF uses in the X-Wing books.
>>86829695How much of that is due to the rebels/NR getting shittons of plot armor and writer favoritism though?
>>86829501Never read it myself.
>>86829787Death of the author only works as an argument if literally everything about the faction didn't already suggest it was fucked.The Empire at no point really has anything to offer even by its own metrics. It's not competent to maintain order, it doesn't even understand how to actually do so other than "have we tried more murder and war crimes" and "what if we keep underming local authorities". It has a biggaton addiction without actually being efficient at leveraging the single most ridiculous industrial base in the history of the setting or the rebels would have been buried under a mountain of anti-dogfighter measures rather than increasingly silly star destroyers that ended up blowing more of each other up in the warlord era than rebels. Its political structure was set up wrong by Sheev, as a joke.The Empire's actual selling points are limited to... pretty uniforms and a reasonably competent impstar core design...that managed to be part of a Navy trying to refight the Clone Wars. After they were over. Against an obviously different enemy.The Empire isn't a bunch of clowns, it's the whole circus. It's not plot armor when from day 1 it just doesn't work as an idea and failed at every level.
>>86829840You're ignoring that literally 9/10 stories about the Empire are from either comic books or cartoons, and the other 1/10 had them contractually be the antagonist in every story.Obviously a comic book about fighting the Empire isn't gonna have the rebels run into a city to blow up the local charity orphanage hospital or something.I'm not saying you're wrong but take into account that most of what tells us the Empire is bad are stories where either by need of plot or by literal contract they have to be bad.In the first two movies the Empire blows up a planet, but it doesn't come off as ludicrously incompetent or stupidly evil in everything it does and we know nothing about it beyond the events in the movies nor we do know anything about the rebellion or if it's any good itself.Return is too shit to count but if you do then I guess you do have them be bumbling retards.
Man are you people bothered by this Empire debacle.
>>86829903for each side, seeing the other's stance is wrong on a morally concerning level, thus inhibiting the logical responce of dropping the topic and moving on.
>>86829870Are you the crazy Imperialanon perchance?Here's the thing, appealing to media doesn't actually mean anything lol.You do remember the scene where they pause the movie- after murdering some locals- to talk about how the Emperor's basically just mooned the entire galaxy by dissolving his own Senate, right to the point even the Imperial officials think he's lost his mind? How Tarkin is so power drunk he just says "lol fear of the death star will keep them in line"?How in ESB even being a bootlicker won't save you from the Empire?Alderaan literally, explicitly gets called a peaceful planet with no weapons that gets blown up because Tarkin wanted to wave his dick around.Seriously if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, is described with the anatomy of a duck, and every story is about its duck-like properties, it may be a duck.By which I mean a hated shitshow of a failed government that coasts along on inertia and by trying to shoot anyone that has concerns.
>>86829924>By which I mean a hated shitshow of a failed government that coasts along on inertia and by trying to shoot anyone that has concerns.And you don't think that makes for an insanely boring and shallow faction?What harm is there in headcanoning otherwise? If it's how you get enjoyment from the setting?
>>86829932Nope.Because your headcanon is shit and you should just write your own setting at that point honestly since it has nothing to do with star wars other than ripping off a few designs
I believe that Tarkin said it best.This bickering is pointless. And I say that as the Grand Space Poohba with a bulldozer.
>>86827302> The USSR, Japan, and Germany are the top three evil regimes in your list>America and Israel not sole entries in S class of evil regimesISHYGDDT
>>86829963Name another setting that has anything comparable to the elements of Star Wars.Where you can cruise a galaxy in a big beautiful warship and fight pirates and rebels.Where there's a bunch of weird unique planets and races. Where there's laser swords and turbolasers and shit.I can only think of one Star Wars-like setting that funnily enough was made by a guy who wanted the Empire to be good, but there's no vidya, no RPG, nothing of the sort for it.It's literally easy to headcanon the things I don't like and play the setting my way. No it's not canon, but who cares? I'm having fun.
>>86829924>Alderaan literally, explicitly gets called a peaceful planet with no weaponsNTA, but its from a character whose first appearances in that movie is her blatantly lying. Why should we trust her about alderaan being peaceful and without weapons when one of the first things we see her do is lie?
>>86830002You have described...basically the most generic sci fi elements possible.I find your lack of imagination disturbing.
>>86830007Because Tarkin agrees that it's not a military target immediately afterwards.
>>86830021Also NTA but he doesn't confirm it, he just responds to her by asking if she'd prefer another target. Suggestive but not exactly a confirmation.>>86830017I'm so sick of over the top zany gonzo-tier unique-for-uniqueness'-sake settings that something generic is a breath of fresh air to me.
>>86830002>>86830017Unique aesthetics isn't the same as concepts.
>>86830032 He literally says "you would prefer...a military target?" lol
I honestly can’t find the western “good vs. evil” conception of the world or of stories interesting anymore.My interpretation of Gundam, and Char specifically as an antagonist is that his motivations were arguably morally good from the western perspective: he wanted people to evolve into Newtypes, psychics, whose enhanced capacities for compassion and empathy would pave the way for socialistic utopias.He wanted people to evolve into Newtypes by moving them into space where the conditions of living induce Newtype evolution, but his methods to move populations were cruel: although justified because people were ignoring his more peaceful efforts.In other words you have in Gundam an antagonist who literally wants greater compassion, empathy, and enlightenment for the human species, and a protagonist who stands in his way for the sake of an amoral government and an immoral status quo, against an antagonist who is threatening the status quo with violent revolution for the possibility of a better future...Neither are “good” - Amuro is fighting for peace in the name of what is essentially a police state, and Char is threatening violent revolution for the sake of an ideal...This is more interesting and simply more realistic in Star Wars. It’s very rare for there to actually be moustache twirling villains tying girls to train track for the sake of pure evil. That archetype is usually reserved for comedy.
>>86830078you could have just opened saying you don't actually like starwars, we could tell
>>86830021That isn't relevant to the what I'm saying. Alderaan might not be a military target, but that doesn't have any bearing on whether Leia is telling the truth about them being peaceful and having no weapons.
>>86830043That comes off as more sarcastic than an actual confirmation imo.
>>86830078>it's a 'real Zeon has never been tried' episode
>>86830078Char was a fool, enhanced empathy can still be ignored, you cant evolve away from humanity being assholes
>>86830078The thing I don't get is people justify the Empire being evil as "that's what real regimes are like" but at the same time assume the Rebellion's perfect, even though by a cursory look at history most rebellions and revolutions are as bad if not worse than the regimes they fight. The Empire's bad and should be bad, cuz Nazis, but suggesting the Rebellion's bad, because Taliban, is just a bridge too far.
>>86830128because in fiction land, its nice to have good guys to actually give a shit about.
>>86830134>its nice to have good guys to actually give a shit about.Have you stopped to think that's why I feel the same way about the Empire?
>>86830183I fucking give up, you are the most insufferable faggot I have ever seen. I wash my hands of this bullshit argument and am pissed at myself for having entertained it for this long
>>86830203It's a serious question. For me having an empire in a fictional setting that's actually worth a shit rooting for is what I want, so that's what I decide on.I don't know why it gets you so pissed off man.
>>86830078Counterpoint: Char was butthurt that Lalah died in the OYW, and he actively sabotaged his 'cause' to set up a one on one duel with Amuro which he then lost because Amuro was the better pilot and Newtype.
'Scuse ya, but why are you all so hung up on something that was more or less the same by design since the original SW episodes?SW never pretended to be even Dune, it is a somewhat serious story, yes, and more work by other authors made it more fleshed out, but it never made showing a serious political operation in depth its purpose.
>>86830207>I don't know why it gets you so pissed off man.nta, but it's because you're cheerleading a goverment designed on purpose to be a distopia by a self serving sorcerer and cult leader of the Dark Side of the Force. There was never going to be a peaceful and stable empire, because that wasn't the point. It's like 1984, it was about power for power's sake, eternal strife, and stormtrooper boots stamping the face of civilians forever.If you want to root for a fucked up empire that actually has some justification for his many crimes, go to learn about Warhammer 40k and the Imperium, because you're missing the point of the SW's Galactic Empire created by Palpatine.
Remnant > hand > fel > rebellion > republic > empire > new republic No I will not elaborate.
>>86830395CIS.That is all.
>>86830128The Taliban are literal heroic freedom fighters fighting against the most evil empire to have ever cursed mankind with it's existence. You are obvious TV race.
>>86830407OK, can you explain to the thread why the USA is the evil empire to everyone?
>>86830434The Mongols would raze your city if you didn't pay them tribute and acknowledge them as overlords. America will raze your city if you don't allow gay pride parades and genital mutilation of children.
>>86830465>he thinks the entire nation is in lockstep with that
>>86830407Is this a joke? US literally payrolled them into being and lately left them with a gift for free as well.
>>86830492don't care what you hear about from cowards who say they oppose, the fact the people responsible still breath mean it's been accepted by all.
>>86830473Doesn't matter what the quote unquote American nation thinks because the nation doesn't get a say in how the state/private power nexus (regime) is run.
>>86830503No, it doesn't mean acceptance in the slightest.Passing tolerance or pretense at such perhaps, but not acceptance.Political and military actions are costly and may create events that ultimately will be unfavorable, which is why those rebels are created at all in the first place, as per US policy, strife agents.
>>86827721>>86827763>>86827796Going by what palp said the upscaled doom isd1s were built after the fall of the empire over a decade. Apparently Exegol is also a desert planet, which surprised me since I thought it looked like an ice planet.
>The Sith want to get rid of this
>>86830648>Going by what palp said the upscaled doom isd1s were built after the fall of the empire over a decadeVader comics seem to make it out that he had them after empire.
>>86830770Here it is.
>>86828501>the ideal galactic government,Yeah, one where Palpatine has supreme authority over everything. Palpatine wasn't an idealogue who had strong principals that we simply find objectionable. He was an asshole who made up principles to make his rule seem legitimate. The Republic had problems, but those problems didn't become intractable until Palpatine pulled at strings to put himself in power. He sabotaged Valorums response to the Naboo crisis. He stoked divisions leading to the Seperatist alliance. Dooku thought that he was fighting for a stronger and more efficient Republic, and he got backstabbed by Palpatine at the eleventh hour, with Dooku showing genuine shock and confusion. You make the smoothbrained mistake that many in authoritarian regimes make. Confusing propaganda for truth. Just because someone cites some value as the motivation for their actions doesn't mean they aren't lying to you, or even to themselves. You want to see a governments principles look to their actions, not to their words. Like the Nazi's said they believed in survival of the fittest. Does that mean that when the Soviets overran Berlin they turned over and said 'Well I guess the Slav's are genetically superior, and we should submit ourselves as slaves to them, since that's what we've been preaching for years'? No, because the whole bit about 'genetic superiority' was shit they made up as an excuse to be assholes. Likewise the Empire by most metrics was way more inefficient than the Republic owing to it's rule by committee and police-state apparatus, and constant encroaching of authority on local regions.
>>86830465Really? Which countries were bombed for lack of gay pride parades?
>>86830216He admit it too. Then half his soul wander and keep shitting the galaxy until his waifu told him to stop his bullshit and go to the afterlife with the rest of his soul.
Why do you engage in your political tirades?They serve no purpose but to ruin the thread and routinely expose incompetence in political, moral, ideological, technological and other areas, both yours and literally everyone else's.It's unproductive, unintelligent, lacking, and generally a waste of time. Try reading some actual books.
>>86830854If you want a single proof the Empire was shit and their pretense of "Order" bullshit is the simple fact, that, while the Republic had 1000 years of peace and prosperity, with increasing problems at the end of it's existence ; the entire rule of the Empire was plagued with instability, unrest, revolt, civil war, internal crisis at the highest level of the state, attempted coup and constant backstabing at all level of the hierarchy from people trying to climb their way up.There is a reason the Empire used violence so much, despite bragging about bringing order to the galaxy, it was in fact unable to maintain it and was only "orderly" in it's earlier period compared to the absolute shitfest that is a galactic-wide total war.
>>86830989I'd guess for the purpose of ruining threads, likley out of a spiteful hatred for star wars and all its fans
>>86830994Sounds unreasonable. SW fans aren't particularly egregious, practically irrelevant barring small ideologue bunch, and disregarding latest film fanbase because I've no idea by and large, though imageboard variant of those is annoying, as are shippers.
>>86830869Don't bother, you are talking to an actual vatnik (or a "rooster" as russians call them), and you won't be able to get a coherent answer out of his FAS/HIV/"cologne"-as-ersatz-vodka/heroin addled brain
>>86826895>What's your favorite Star Destroyer variant?Interdictior, through and through. Love the ambush predator/antlion ability it possesses.
What are you rebel scum going to do when the Empire comes for you?
>>86830093On the contrary, I grew up with Star Wars and love it.I subscribe to the idea that George was trying to bring some depth to Star Wars with the prequels. Whether he was successful or not is not an interesting debate anymore, but the Jedi *are* depicted as a fallible pseudo monastic army serving a corrupt government, unable to see that they’re being swindled by Palpy. In other words the prequels depict the Jedi as more complicated than a totally morally good underdog force who always deserve to, and always will win.The prequels have some of the moral texture I like from shows like Gundam.
Resistance could have just used these X-Wings and it would have been fine
>>86831118It's great and all, but never were the Jedi shown to be in always win state.Not once.
>>86830989is Andor to blame? I haven’t seen Star Wars threads this bad in a while until Andor started wrapping up.
>>86831151Nah, this was happening before Andor
>>86831137Read my post again.
>>86829556You realize the Empire has a special bureau for this?Better hope they do not select you, becaseu you WILL have to perform on a nightly basis, freshly bacta'S broken pelvis from yesterday night or not.
>>86831115Should I be concerned? Empire are pretty damn incompetent and self-destructive, and they're led by a force troll who wants to burn everything down.
>>86831163Yes, yes, but the only time Jedi were shown to be always good is maybe in some fanfic, actual works always showed them to be just humans, in the end.Or aliens, but you get the idea, SW was always complicated when one actually pays attention.
>>86831182Anon, it came across to me like you were saying I had implied that the Jedi were depicted as “always good” in the prequels. If you read my post, I’m saying almost the direct opposite. Do you want to clarify what you’re trying to say?
>>86831118>In other words the prequels depict the Jedi as more complicated than a totally morally good underdog force who always deserve to, and always will win.No, I'm saying that there never was such an impression in the series, it warrants no particular mention, so who would mistake it as such?Jedi are generally good, but not without problems.
>>86831115submit to mommydom
>>86831094I like the bridge design of it too with the 'tulip style' control consoles rather than crew pits. 10/10 bridge- would command from
>>86831245I think you are taking a contrary opinion just for the sake of it. You have no stake in this conversation and you don’t really believe it, you just want to argue that “oh well Yoda and Obi-Wan lied to Luke and tried to get him to betray his friends so that he could complete his Jedi training and be more powerful to defeat Darth Vader: clearly making them morally complex” because you can and you feel like shitposting, not because the original Star Wars films actually support the idea that the Jedi were morally complex.
>>86831244rock and stone
>>86831297Are you stupid or what? My point is that jedi always were complicated, why would that need a mention as if somehow it ever was not so?
>>86829840>Its political structure was set up wrong by Sheev, as a joke.based
>>86831284Yes, the unique style of bridge is superb. Futuristic enough to showcase the advanced style but still recognizable as imperial tech.I'm liking the Cantwell class cruiser too.
>>86831324I’m quite intelligent, thanks for asking.The Jedi being trickster monks is far from moral complexity. Sure, in the OT, they use mind tricks on their enemies (the deceitful and the wicked, like Stormtroopers and Jabba) and Yoda and Obi-Wan are singlemindedly focused on Luke’s training and his learning the non-attachment necessary to become a Jedi to the point where they tell him to abandon his friends to Vader, but their goal is to defeat Vader, a tall wicked man in a black cloak who stomps around choking people with the force and helping the Emperor make life miserable for everybody.This is, relative to the Star Wars prequels and to Gundam, morally black and white. There’s no complexity to mention: unless you want to try...In the prequels you have the Jedi as a religious collective with multiple conflicting schools of thought, including Qui-Gon’s focus on the “Living Force“ as a guide to the actions he should take, leading him to gamble (and cheat) in a podrace for the life of a slave boy who will be inducted into the Jedi monastary (and like the other children in the Jedi order he won’t have much of a say in it). The Jedi are depicted as being allowed to have sex, so long as they don’t develop attachment to a partner: which of course is a mostly ridiculous idea and raises several moral questions. They’re effectively a military and police arm of the Republic, which even without Palpatine is a morally grey organization, making their peacekeeping efforts questionable: and then on top of that you have Palpatine’s ability to blind the Jedi to his nature as a Sith lord, and to his schemes, which casts the Jedi as somewhat decadent and out of touch (the literally live in an ivory tower) in addition to whatever moral good they might be bringing to the galaxy.Again, I understand what you’re trying to argue, and the reasons why. Unless you prove otherwise, you’re basically just shitposting.
>>86831368yeah, it's a fun spin. I associate the consoles with the Death Star so it has that kind of unique tech and unique danger vibe working for me. The Cantwell is a new fave, seems like a good anti-pirate ship to keep on scene. And the bridge from Andor was a good smaller scale version of the traditional Imperial arrangement. Almost wish that was how they did Arquitens.The redesigns of the Light Cruiser for the Mandalorian and Interdictor and Quasar-fire for Rebels have all been well done. There's suddenly a lot to love in the size category one or two down from Star Destroyer.
>>86831444It's an action movie about galactic events for crying out loud, it's simple and complex in an elegant way where it needs to be, first three movies are about a young Luke early forays into things, that only become more detailed just right as he gets stronger, the later three are about a different perspective, which naturally showed far greater action.Does self-evident, apparent and implied complexity of things not exist where you are from or do you need any possible moral complexity to be stated to you in plain terms and all implications about the world at large are to be dismissed?
>>86831451I've been a fan of "Star Destroyer, but made for a certain niche" designs from the empire. Even the arquitens are fun.
>>86827617>Like it was generated by an AI who saw what the hallmarks were of big budget franchises, but didn't understand what made them good or why they were done in the first place.That's just JJ Abrams.
>>86831244>>86831314I need more images of imps getting stoned.
For me, it's the Venator.
>>86831524I'd say that 99% of the disney canon spaceship designs have ranged from solid to great, better on average than the EU, apart from 2 or 3 REALLY stinky designs that are sun-crusher tier bad
>>86831696the majority of ST ships aren't bad, just kinda boring usually, that said Clone wars and Rebel era ships are consistently great.I'd love to see a star hawk flanked by nebula class star destroyers
>>86831696Disney can do some pretty good new designs at least for the OT era. Main issue is most of the sequel designs are just OT design but slight difference. And I'm not sure if they actually made any clone wars designs since buying the IP. Can't comment on the high republic.
>>86831151I think the guy just saw that Star Wars had a show that just ended and decided to pop back in to shit the threads up again, we've been dealing with this arsehole for years.
>>86831714I think it's because ILM still has the same staff since Lucas was there. But the issue is JJ intentionally fucked over the designs for the ST. Much like how they had John Williams but then told him to do generic movie music instead of letting him do what he does.
>>86831740>Much like how they had John Williams but then told him to do generic movie music instead of letting him do what he does.They did not have John Williams, he was 120 years old at the time and clearly not composing anything.
I just came here for the ON PROGRAM memes. Do you guys have some?
>>86831716the sequel ship designs can be really good...if you consider them as adjacent to the Galactic Civil War era rather than next-generation shitfor example the Finalizer double dick dreadnought would be good if it were some random Moff's pet project super weapon that Rogue Squadron had to blow up, or the hot-rodded BTA Y-wing would be a sidegrade to the standard Y, that sort of thingI mean look at shit like this, that would be great for padding out Rebel fleets, but instead it's all just specks in the background while the movie focuses on gay little basic TIE fighters but with the color inverted
>>86831774Uh. No. They're all pretty bad. Every design of the sequel era is trash.
>>86831774the upper middle one looks kinda like a MonCala Variant of the Recusant
Everything to do with E9, I just file away in the Reboot ST movies.Yes, the ST fandom three a fit as JJA managed to fail even the most basic astronomy and scale, and it was forced into canon by the inclusion of Old Spock.But they ignored them all and focused on arguing about new material and writing off the reboot stuff.
>>86831793Niggers tongue my anus.
>fuck up crowd control operation>about to get beaten to death by an angry mob>get abducted at gunpoint>it's that guy who was stalking you on a completely different planet>maybe the mob was a better choice
Why are bounty hunters always portrayed as evil in Star Wars?
>>86831774I like the "V-wing" one and the Mon Cal Recussant one. The mon cal ship on the left is kinda fugly though.
>>86831889Dyn seems like a pretty positive portrayal to me.
>>86831889Because they kill people for money, you're already attracting a bad crowd with that job description, and then on top of that you're dealing with people who kill for MONEY and the people who have money to spend on hitmen are usually evil
>>86831924Hitman =/= Bounty Hunter
>>86831884I like her look of horror as she realise who he is.>Wtf Nigga really ?
>>86831926a distinction without a difference, at the end of the day the Empire has all the money and they're the ones hiring paid killers to try and kill the protagonists
>>86831926Honestly not that different when the hirer is the Empire.
>>86831953Bounty hunters existed before and after the Empire. I understand why they'd be villainous in the Imperial Era, because their job is to hunt dangerous criminals and who the Empire terms as "dangerous criminal" are 99% of the times rebels, but they should be much more neutral in other eras. Instead, bounty hunters are always evil, while the good guys rely only on Jedi, which coincidentally, are why things end up getting so bad outside of the core because Jedi numbers are too low to actually do much.
>>86831976Again, the people who hire other people to kill a third party of people are not likely to ever be anything but evil.
>>86831980What you're thinking about is a hitman or assassin. Bounty hunters typically work for some law authority. They don't typically kill people, and if they do it's likely to be considered murder. They try to return fugitives to justice for a monetary reward. Sometimes, the fugitive is wanted dead or alive. Hitmen and assassins are killers for hire.
>>86832018Anyone who accepts money for tracking down others, or hires someone else to do so, is Dark Side aligned and thus evil. That person they're hunting down could be a hero or evil as fuck, it doesn't matter.
>>86832041Actually, they faggified bounty-hunters in a lot of the EU material, on go e-hentai and search for the bounty hunter's guidebook.
What was her problem?
>>86831924It’s like Deathstroke the Terminator/Slade Wilson from DC.Even though he started as a villain, writers try to make him more heroic without mentioning most of his jobs are probably stuff like killing state witnesses and prostitutes who know too much about the deeds of criminals/rich and famous.
>>86831889Bounty hunters are typically anti-heroes when on team good, and anti-heroes do not exist in Star Wars because morality is binary thanks to the Force.
>>86832041What are you talking about, there is nothing really wrong about catching say murderer as a job. It's the whole point of law-enforcement. Bounty-hunter, properly regulated, are just a tool for justice to bring criminal to face their judgement in area law-enforcement is unable to operate properly (either because of means, distance or juridiction issue).
>>86832087This is SW morality, mate, not IRL, and in SW, bounty hunters are always dark siders.
>>86832081Can't tell if your trolling, retarded or false flagging. Good job.
>>86831889One thing I noticed about the Clone Wars series is that bounty hunters are presented as a pretty big deal. Aside for Cad Bane going around and Cad Baning people, the Republic hired bounty hunters to train their clones, and the Hutts employed bounty hunters for protection so competent they were able to go toe-to-toe with Sith and Death Watch, the same group who had literally decapitated the Black Sun leadership.
>>86832096>and in SW, bounty hunters are always dark siders?
>>86832096Din isn't a darksider
>>86832106It makes sense for the republic. Odds are they don't have much in the way of people with combat experience that aren't jedi, who will not be the best at training soldiers.
>>86832106Well Hutt are a anarcho-capitalist conglomerate of states that mascarade as a mafia (unlike Russia who is a mafia that mascarade as a state) so it make sense they would hire some pretty elite gun for hire for personnal protection.
>>86831889Stereotypically, they're Mandalorians and Mandos tend to be the generic baddies of SW throughout history.
>>86831889Fuck bounty hunters. My blood boils when I see fuckers like Cad Bane, Boba Fett, getting praised. These sons of bitches get a lot of praise, people licking their boots, people finding them cool. I have to literally skip any content they're in because I can't stand them. I could only watch The Mandalorian because it was clear they were doing it with a purpose, for survival. These i've just mentioned have no objective, they're in for the money, for greed, for personal glory. That is so fucking despicable. I can't respect them.
>>86832195Bobba (well new and to be fair, EU Bobba because even then people where sucking his dick and whitewashing him) is a giga fag because he pretend he got a code of honor or some shit like that, that he is moraly superior in some ways. Cad Bane is a despicable, cold hearted son of a bitch, but at least he has the decency to not pretend to be anything else. He is a killer, and the only thing he is interested in is money, glory and being the best. The kind of guy that think anything other that pure egoism is weakness. He is a good vilain, the great design help a lot.
>>86832065hemmed in, wanted to be free
>>86831774I'm with you, easy to pick out and re-contextualize for a campaign- or ignore.
>>86832347You fapped to this, didn't you?
Why were so many of them just ok with just throwing out democracy?
>>86828633Holol nigger vatnik has been with us on /swg/ longer than this restarted war of late has been a thing
>>86832890Well coruscant was just attacked a week ago So honestly I see a lot of people really concerned about galactic security
>>86831889Nah, there were lots of cool and not evil bounty hunters in Clone Wars.
>>86832890Keep in mind that these guys were all of the loyalists of the Clone Wars and all of the Seppie senators probably never made it back to their seats after the Empire took over.
>>86831115I follow Korean artists
>>86832895He was gone for a couple of months after the war started. I had assumed he got deployed to go fight for his shithole country and got shot, but I guess we weren't that lucky.
>>86827641 Are you questioning COBRA Commander's validity? Sure he kicked puppies but look at the contributions to SCIENCE
>>86833113Vatnik is a self-loathing anglophile American whose tongue is so addicted to bootleather it's been stained black
>>86828846 I'm little Buttercup, sweet little Buttercup
I'm not sure why people here are arguing that The Empire is a willing force for good. and that Pappa Palps was just looking out "for the people" The Empire is Evil. There may be those within it that are good but the key players at the top of the food chain are all about subjugation of the people. Were mid-level managers evil? yea and no. Read the Banality of Evil - but add to that those infected with real mystical spiritual corruption. Also this "The Jedi and Sith are just the same" no, they are not. Just like the Dark side is not "natural" it's a boil. a puss-filled canker. Life and Death are not good and Evil but the disruption of those by unnatural means. The attempt to control those and bend them to personal will .. that's the Dark.
>>86832593yeah, just a little bit though.
>>86833409 Also it was "written" to be evil. it's not fucking real therefore it "CAN" be evil. it's like some sort of shit apologists saying "The orcs of the Hand lost their way and should be shown how the orcs of the Eye." Sauron just wanted centralized control over Middle Earth and the rings were just a method of achieving his goal. Some lives might have regretfully have been lost during the unification but The Dark Lord of Barad-dûr was just misunderstood. in his policies. - fucking mongs.
So was it just a way to weed out the ones loyal to a fault?
>>86833658It's a non canon, sorry.
>>86828906Honestly, good shit, Moff Puub-hah is getting a sector in my homebrew corner of the galaxy right next to Moff Benis
>>86830207Because its baffling that you feel the need to have this discussion in this thread on repeat, particularly when your personal vision of starwars is so far removed from a plain and common reading of the setting that its pretty much an AU. Get on some blogging site or fanfic site and write out your vision of the Galactic Empire, talk with the people that comment on it about it, because if one thing is sure its that if some lunatic writes an incredibly long overwrought fan project at least half a dozen likeminded lunatics will find it and love it, and you’ll be in a better mood for it, might even find a group to game with. But for the love of Christ, stop shitting up these threads trying to get people to see your vision in the actual text of starwars, films, EU, whatever, because it hinges on a willful reinterpretation of the material. Your vision of the setting diverges from that of the writers on pretty much every level, maybe excluding the technobabble, you think the winners of battles and wars won because author fiat and aren’t actually the winners, and you make up rationalizations about events and characters that fundamentally diverge from anything actually shown. Its not that this isnt allowed, theres absolutely nothing to stop you, but you seem so bemused when other people don’t also see things this way and want to discus an understanding of the starwars setting that corresponds to the material as written, rather than as you, anon, personally imagines it. You also come off as a total aspie who literally cant understand the concept of people using their authority to legitimize actions that are wrong. Like, the whole “I’m living in their city” thing, just absolute nonsense given the context, and you still didn’t seem to grasp the argument being made when it was explained to you as one would to a small child. To be clear, in context that paraphrase amounts to “well I’m living in the empire’s galaxy”/
>>86831094I like the Interdictor because they’re built from Vindicator hulls, and SFS makes the Vindicator instead of KDY
>>86833658It was pappa P "if I can't have it, no one can" plan.