Post your favorite examples of stupid rules as written rulings for abilities or effects, any game or edition is applicable. >Another player takes the Telekinetic feat>Player takes his first turn this session and wants to use his BA on it>Player: Ok, I’ll use telekinetic to move myself 5 feet away. >DM: So you want to shove yourself away from yourself?>Player: Yes>DM: Are you sure?>Player: I said yes!>DM: Ok, you explode with all of your chunks falling five feet away from your previous location
>>86821279>Old Horus Heresy Wargame>Moritat has two pistols>Can keep firing his pistols until he misses a shot with each pistol>Blood Angels have a pistol that auto-hits>Players claim that it automatically kills anything it shoots at because it gets infinite hits
>>86821279Invisibility and disadvantage on hit being seperate effects of the Invisible condition, meaning that even those with the means to perfectly see the 'invisible' creature will still have disadvantage on their attack rolls.
>>86821420That aspect of invisibility was always stupid. The justification crawfish gave was even more stupid. >Picture it like a magical shimmer around the creature that makes them hard to hit. That description also fits Fairy Fire
>>86821312No, no, the math checks out
>>86821279>>DM: So you want to shove yourself away from yourself?"No you want to shove my entire self five feet away, you fucking retard racer."
>>86821420>>86821462Typically, anything that would make an invisible creature lose the evasive benifit of that invisibility states that the attacker doesn't have the disadvantage that said invisibility would normally cause. Blindsense/Blindfight or whatever the fuck it's called now, I'm pretty sure is worded in a way that quite directly states that the disadvantage that character would have trying to strike a-specifically-invisible or otherwise hidden enemy doesn't apply.If there is a gap in the RAW, it's because WotC are chodes, but we already knew that.
>>86821462While it is retarded, it doesn't match Faerie Fire. Faerie Fire essentially creates a magical glow/highlight around you. For the shimmer Crawford was referring to look at Predator or pretty much any movie or show with invisible characters
>>86822414>Blindsense/Blindfight or whatever the fuck it's called now, I'm pretty sure is worded in a way that quite directly states that the disadvantage that character would have trying to strike a-specifically-invisible or otherwise hidden enemy doesn't apply.It actually doesn't. You know what else doesn't? The spell "See Invisibility"
There's a bit in the KonoSuba! official tie-in TTRPG that states that after one takes damage, their remaining HP is equal to the HP before they took the damage minus the damage they took.
>>86822457I feel like there’s something stupid about the wording here but it should work as intended even if the wording is fucking klunky
>>86822562AFAIK, it does. It's just so fucking redundant. Alternatively, while GURPS is usually good about this, it's possible to do an affliction that permanently bestows upon you character points.
>>86821279> Black Crusade weapon drawback Noxious Discharge creates smoke in 1m radius> Fire gun you got more easily for having this option> Get concealed by this optionAs for least favourite, anything Jeremy Crawford has said about 5e. He clearly either hates it as a whole (understandable) or the people asking about it.
>>86822673Shield master moment
>>86821279>Creation Bard’s song of creation lets you create a “item” within a certain price range>Item isn’t a defined term in the game>RAW you use the the dictionary definition, in this case Item has several >This means the feature can create anything from a list, anything worthy of concern, a newsworthy event, or a pair of creatures in a romantic relationship >Past a certain level you can create a pair of level 20 wizards with a second level spell slot
>>86821312Does the pistol have infinite ammo?
>>86822697I would agree, however, I argue that determining the price of a newsworthy event or any other esoteric “item” would be difficult if not impossible, therefore excluding them from being created in such a manner.
>>86822803Debatable. If the concerning object or construct has a price that can be determined then it would be a option. But if it’s something that can’t exist and couldn’t have a price applied then I agree. And newsworthy events are the same. Of course the price limit stops applying eventually so that becomes a mute point
>>86821651Have you stopped sucking dicks in public?
>>86823121Have you tried playing a good game?
>>86822838>a mute pointa moot point
Someone in a Pathfinder game arguing that the Dead condition doesn't prevent characters from taking actions because it doesn't specifically say it
>>86822435oh shit, fact check, you're right! does the DnDone blindfighting mention it then, I remember it detailing more concretely somewhere, and of all places it should be in DnDone playtest material at the very least.I will fucking dye laughing if DnDone still has these fuckups in them.
>>86823222I houserule that players can't take any actions if they have the Dead condition to solve problems like this.
>>86821279In Shadowrun pre-4E, every TN that was divisble by six was mathematically equivalent to the same TN+1 so if you hit TN 6/12/18 and couldn't get it lower, there was no reason not to do something to raise the TN by 1. Likewise there was never a reason to do anything to lower your TN by 1 if they were 7, 13, etc.
>>86823586You shouldn't do that, you should let the player take actions while dead, then have their dead enemies also taking actions while dead.
>>86823676Reminder that loading a crossbow is a swift,
>>86823586>>86823681Desu zombies are a thing so they’re kinda right
>>86823704But that is undead not dead dead
>>86823704Until Arantham and his morons get their druthers, Undeath is distinct from Death.
>>86823412I can't imagine that DnDone will have any degree of playtesting
>>86822583Well yes, you could recreate JRPG leveling or DBZ's zenkai with that. Even though GURPS has a fuckton of balance issues, exploiting them is a player problem more than a game problem.
>>86822703Yes, because 40k (and HH, which uses a modified version of 7th edition 40k rules) doesn't track ammo for any weapons not listed as one-shot.
>>86821279Explosivo spell in Warmachine.Turned your ranged weapon attack into a magical ranged weapon attack and gave it an 3 inch AOE. The AOE could did not get the weapon's special rules.1. This meant that the aoe wasn't magical since the magic weapon was attached to the ranged weapon and the aoe can't have the rules.2. If the ranged weapon was already an aoe with special rules, the aoe would no longer apply the special rule since the spell overwrote the aoe rules and no longer could attach rules to the AOE.3. HOWEVER, if the model itself had special rules that affected the gun, then it would be fine because it wasn't the ranged weapon's rules that the aoe was negating.It became the king crimson tier of "it just works" among the rules discussion with the spell being exclusively used for making a bullet into an aoe OR getting a direct hit magic weapon.Later they changed it so that spell works by turning the victim of the ranged attack into an aoe bomb, so the gun itself was untouched.
>>86821312>>86824264you dumb fucking apeit explicitly says "to a maximum of twelve hits in total from both pistols combined."the reading comprehension of the average warhamoid still amazes me to this day
>>86825288>it explicitly says "to a maximum of twelve hits in total from both pistols combined."that was a thing added later precisely because the infinite flame pistol worked that way to generate infinite hits.
>>86823676what's even the point of such item if it's the same action to use a cord or to pick up the weaponIn the Savage Pathfinder version, it's a limited free action to do so, which is the whole point of it, even if it's not "realistic" compared to what we, as average nerd should be able to do isn't the same as a trained fighter or swashbuckler.
>>86822295Ignoring the GM having a character tear himself apart, this is the actual language of the effect.>As a bonus action, you can try to telekinetically shove one creature you can see within 30 feet of you. When you do so, the target must succeed on a Strength saving throw (DC 8 + your proficiency bonus + the ability modifier of the score increased by this feat) or be moved 5 feet toward or away from you. A creature can willingly fail this save.The movement is clearly and plainly defined relative to you. You cannot be moved closer to or further away from yourself. A correct RAW ruling would simply be to say no.
>>86821279Monks aren't proficient with unarmed strikes in 3.5.
>>86825713Wasn’t that errated somewhere with a statement that all creatures are proficient with unarmed strikes or something?
>>86825713Nothing can be proficient with unarmed strikes because you can only be proficient with weapons and unarmed strikes can be CONSIDERED weapons for a lot of purposes but they're not weapons.
>>86822697Iirc it creates mundane items from the phb and other sourcebooks with listed prices. My group are assholes and refused to let me summon hundreds of chickens with it but RAW it fucking should
>>86825960That’s the issue. It uses the list as a example but no where does it restrict you to that.
>>86825713Oh in that vein, needing arcana skill to make scrolls was a rude awakening in our 5th ed campaign as divine casters don't get arcana as default option. Our GM hastily allowed religion as substitution for the cleric
>>86823161So the answer is no. You're still gargling cock. Got it.
>>86823663How did THAT rule mess emerge?
>>86824136> Even though GURPS has a fuckton of balance issues, exploiting them is a player problem more than a game problem.Sounds like both.
>>86825424Prevents enemies from kicking the weapon away or grabbing it and leaving perhaps?
>>86821279Hm, I usually follow RAW as long as it doesn't make the game unplayable, so I should have a lot of these. But it's been such a long time...Ah, yes. Furious Assault in the 40KRPGs allows you to use a reaction to make an additional attack if you hit on your first one - except you can't use reactions on your own turn.Following on from that, dodging is usually the most effective way to defend yourself from attack in 40k - at certain levels of play, getting hit pretty much means getting dead. Therefore, it is optimal to always ready an action (or delay, or whatever it was called in the game) to attack during your opponent's turn.Oh, and also, in the same game, I do believe that basic fuel packs more of an explosive punch, weight for weight, than any actual bomb or missile.
>>86823676I fucking hate that guy
>>86829754It's not a problem at all. Balance is irrelevant to GURPS design and trying to balance things out would just make it the same boring garbage that everything else is. GURPS is about verimisilitude and simulationism, not about autistically struggling to make all options and builds equal. If Batman dies when hit by a bullet in the head, things are working as intended. Go play FATE or something if you don't loke it.
>>86830226Gurps really is a game you don’t want to play with a power gamer
>>86830226Nothing wrong with making use of the powerful options of there is nothing wrong with those options.
>>86825960Creatures are not items, even if they CAN be purchased.
>>86821279Theres a guy on youtube called pack tactics. Uses a kobold as his avatar..his entire chamnel is full of these UM ACHTUALLY style things he uses to claim he can break dnd. Like because the book says you choose an item for genie warlock you can just choose a ring of 3 wishes. Or how the rules say rope trick rope goes perpendicular to the ground, since the ground is always moving with the earth you can rope trick to send people to space.
>>86831573You can just shut them downUnless you're dealing with that one autist from here who thinks the GM is specifically shitting on him because he won't allow everything from the books in his medieval game
>>86831901>Item, noun: a couple in a romantic or sexual relationship. Other meanings include >a distinct part in an enumeration, account, or series>an object of attention, concern, or interest>a separate piece of news or information
>>86832112>>86831901Hit send too early. A creature can be a item if it’s on a list or series and any pair of creatures in a romantic relationship are also a item. This is what I mean when I say they fucked it up by not using a game term like object and used item instead.
>>86822697that pic remember me that in yugiohwhen you xyz a monter and you detach one cardand it hit the graveyard it's "when this card hits the graveyard" effects dont activate
>>86825713loltrueI love 3.5's weird shit
Rogue Trader. If you make the right dynasty and have a good handle on the system, along with 6+ players, you can make raider which is the rival of a grand cruiser through liberal interpretation of the starting acquisition rules. Also, with enough the same amount of players, you can never lose any ship battle because the action economy will be so weighted you can't loose. This is also an issue in the ffg star wars systems. Every character over 5 makes any encounter exponentially easier.
>>86832158Dumb logically but there’s a good reason for that. That rules ng was required because XYZ material being on the field and being sent to the GY caused a lot of broken combos.
>>86832294Also don't forget that all it takes is the RT maxing out Command with talents, training and items and you can win every boarding action ever.RT is jank as fuck, but I love it.Don't forget that in chargen you can pay experience for a mutation, usually limited to the lower tier ones but one of the options you can pick is Ravaged Body which gives you 1d5 mutations that can be any of the ones on the chart, meaning you can start the game with shit or be a literal borderline daemonprince.
>>86832655Ffg made some pretty fun but broken games. I will sorely miss them now that asmodee ripped them apart and then got itself ripped apart.
>>86832682Afflictions can give either an irritating condition (Itching, pain, etc), an incapacitating condition (sleep, vomit, etc), a heart attack, a stroke, a penalty to an attribute, a disadvantage, or an advantage to its target.There's an advantage called Modular Abilities that gives you a few points that you can freely swap out, letting you re-assign a skill point from Swimming to Climbing once you're off the sea and off to the mountain. Now this normally wouldn't be an issue, as advantages granted by Afflictions go away after a few minutes... except with the Permanent Duration enhancement. Granted, it multiplies the Affliction's cost by 4, but with that enhancement it'll stay on permanently.
In Shadowrun 5th edition, silencers have an option to alert you if somebody hears you. This alert is transmitted over the setting's equivalent of *broadband*, removing any stealth you had in the first place.
>cats can't jump>cats can easily kill normal humans in a fight to the death
>>86832966Thats a gross mischaracterization. It alerts you via augmented reality. The only way it would hit your stealth is if a hacker was watching or had compromised you already.
>>86832655Don't forget that, RAW, Overwatch gives you as many attacks as your weapon has clip size for in exchange for a -20 to hit, which you can easily mitigate by firing full-auto for a +20 or just by using weapon attachments. And most vehicle-mounted weapons don't have a clip size.
>>86833556Correction: most vehicles *do* have clip sizes - of 100-500. Overwatch with a Sentinel's Multilaser is going to make pretty much any combat encounter eat a gallon of shit.
This is an oldie, but in the gaming abortion known as Racial Holy War (or RaHoWa) that was about white ubermensch slaughtering lesser races by the dozen, non-whites were the objectively superior races. They were all given bonuses on rolls according to stereotypes, so you had Mexicans be really good at climbing fences and swimming, Chinese people acting as living calculators, Jews being skilled at lying and making money, etc. However, the author never bothered to make white people good at anything. They didn't get any bonuses to any rolls. He just forgot to do that bit.That could have worked if the game was about the oppressed white man fighting to survive and beset on all sides by cartoonish minorities, but the author leaned hard into the power fantasy about how obviously better white people are at everything... then made a world where whites are painfully mediocre but every Mexican is a veteran triathlete, every Asian is a polymath, and every Jew is a master manipulator billionaire that can easily make the white man his plaything.
>>86825774They're listed as simple weapons.
>>86829509Floating TNs and exploding dice.
>>86829509Exploding dice. If you rolled a 5 on 1D6, you got a 5. But if you rolled a 6, you automatically got to add an extra D6. As such, any TN of 6 was the same as a TN of 7, because if you rolled a 6, you automatically added at least one because impossible not to roll at least a 1 on the extra D6 you got. Similarly, 11 was possible, but 12 automatically meant an extra die again, and so the possible range of results went 11-->13, not 11,12,13. And so on.
Play Changeling: The Dreaming.Become the Ocean Man.
>>86833861I don't understand
>>86833868They forgot the 'l' in 'seal,' so under hyper-literal RAW a selkie can transform into a sea. Seas are quite big, so being able to transform into one would be quite disruptive.
>>86833868Thanks to a typo you can change your character into over 3 cubic kilometres of water.
>>86833757Exploding Dice are such a fucking mess. I love them mechanically, but after doing the maths for another project, I can say with confidence that there is not a single RPG with exploding dice where the game designers had any thought other than "Exploding Dice are kinda cool, what's the worst effect they could have on results?"
>>86834150*Thematically, not mechanically. Words are fucken hard.
40k had a lot depending on the edition. My favourite was the Night Scythe in 6th edition. >The Night Scythe is an aircraft Necron transport.>Now, it's particularity is that while mechanically it works like a transport it doesn't actually transport anything. What it does is having a portal generator that your troops can use. >So when you "embark" something in it the troops don't go inside the Scythe, they get teleported in the Necron base, from which they can be recalled. >For this reason the Scythe had a special rule that, if the Scythe got destroyed, the units inside it didn't get casualties or the chance to disembark, but instead they were put in reserve, representing the troops needing to reach the battle from the Necron base through other ways.>Unfortunately the 6th edition core rules update changed the timing of a bunch of things, which meant that now the damage from the explosion of the Scythe happens before the unit being put in reserve.>So what happened was that if you shot a Night Scythe out of the sky the pilot suddenly decided to teleport all the passengers in mid air from the Necron base, letting them all fall to the ground, and then teleport them back into the base before exploding. >Why? Spite I guess.
>>86821279In DnD 3.5 you could stabilize a mortally wounded character by dunking their head in a bucket and holding it there until they start to drown. That's because RAW if a character takes negative hit points from drowning or suffocation their HP is restored to 0 (incapacitated but in a stable condition, and) if they stop drowning before they die. Since it doesn't specify that only negative hit points caused by drowning are restored, a character who was already at negative HP before starting to drown would also be restored to 0 HP.The exact same situation for the same reason occurs in some videogames, like Mario 64 where you could restore your HP to full by diving in a pool of water, staying below the surface long enough to take 1vl damage, and then resurfacing. In that case it's because the devs didn't bother (or possibly couldn't because of memory limitations) making the game track HP lost by drowning (which is restored when Mario is no longer drowning) from HP lost in general. I find it funny DnD ended up having pretty much the same "glitch" in the rules.
>>86833735Kek. In the opposite end of the spectrum Thirsty Sword Lesbians has a rule that said using a X card gave bonus XP so the meta is being as offended by everything as possible.
>>86834624The problem with the bucket of water healing is that nowhere in the rules it's stated that once you begin drowning removing you from water stops the process. The rules are explicit about the fact that once you fail the Constitution check, you die in three rounds (turn 1 0hp, turn 2 -1 HP, turn 3 dead). No method to stop this process exist in the rules. So it's one of those things where going RAW for a little benefit actually has a lot worse consequence.
>>86834542Some other funny 40k rules interactions that come to mind:>Marneus Calgar used to have a rule that lets a unit he joins automatically pass or fail a morale check to see if they break from melee, and if you chose to fail it tge unit can't be overrun and automatically regroups. Basically you can use it to get your shooting unit that's been tied up in melee out of combat and shoot at the unit that had charged them on your next turn. IG commissars have the famous summary execution rules, where if a unit the commissar is part of fails a morale check, you kill one model from the unit and reroll the check. If there is another character in the unit, that is going to be the model that gets killed (if it's just random troopers you randomly select one). Later wordings of the rule specify this only applies to IG models, but before that you could have a situation where Calgar, the Chaoer Master of the Ulteamarines joins an IG squad and orders a tactical retreat to disengage from melee, only to get a bolter round through his skull by an over-eager commissar who too the whole "not one step backwards" thing a bit too seriously. >5th edition Dark Eldar codex had Lelith Hesperax include armor saves on all her attacks, to reflect her being so skilled at fighting that she can kill even the most heavily armored enemy with an ordinary knife by finding some weak spot in their armor. The important bit here is that the wording originally said "all attacks", not "all melee attacks", which didn't originally matter because Lelith didn't have ranged weapons. However, in 6th edition grenades were changed to not just negate the initiative penalty from charging through cover but also function as a short range aoe ranged attack, and fortifications that had weapons other units could operate were added. That meant Lelith could now wipe out a squad of terminators with an armor save ignoring grenade, or turn a flak gun into a 4-shot s7 ap 2 weapon.
>>86834799Remember that time that GW had to release a FAQ that said that you can't give your Hive Fleet the name Ultramarine to benefit from all the effects that benefits Ultramarines, because RAW if you did that you could have Calgar leading hordes of Hormagaunts into battles while giving rerolls to them?Remember that time GW had to release a FAQ about the fact that if you concede you lose the game?
>Mimic can turn into any object>RAW says it doesn't have become same object per action as it was previous>by RAW DMs could turn Mimic encounters into prophunt puzzle
>>86834924Isn't that how mimics are supposed to work? With the difference being that in prophunt the prop players aren't trying to eat the seeker.
>>8682127940k 8th edition removed aeo templates from the game, with blast weapons now rolling to hit as normal but dealing damage to 6d models (or more in case of larger weapons) and template weapons like flamers changed into automatically hitting. This ended up making flamethrowers some of the best anti-air weapons, as most flyer-type units were fairly fragile and relied on the flyer rule granting a penalty to hit them (in previous editions flyers were specifically immune to blast- and template weapons to avoid this issue, but apparently they forgot that in 8th efition).
>>86831940Never cared for him that much but recently I saw the oversized weapons video where he claims that enlarge spell makes your weapons oversized on top of the extra 1d4.He's one of those rules lawyer RAWtist you don't want at your table.
>>86829973>>Ah, yes. Furious Assault in the 40KRPGs allows you to use a reaction to make an additional attack if you hit on your first one - except you can't use reactions on your own turn.Pretty sure it's just a case of "specific trumps general", there are a lot of effects that allow you to use Reactions during your turn.
>>86835117Handwave it saying that according to RAW only the target increases in weight while the weapon only increases in size
>>86835192I handwave it by saying 3 fucking lines in the MONSTER CREATION SECTION don't change how spells or size rules work.Also I personally make a distinction between "large weapons" and "oversized weapons" in the same vein regular weapons have Light, normal and Heavy. A Large weapon is a weapon made t be weilded by a large creature, not that much different than a regular one. And oversized is a weapon that's large even for a large creature. Like an ettin carrying a big tree or a minotaur with an ace twixe his size.
>>86834859>Remember that time that GW had to release a FAQ that said that you can't give your Hive Fleet the name Ultramarine to benefit from all the effects that benefits Ultramarines, because RAW if you did that you could have Calgar leading hordes of Hormagaunts into battles while giving rerolls to them?That’s some YGO-ass rules, goddamn.
>>868340883 thousand, you retard
>>868340883000 cubic kilometers even
>>86821279In D&D/PF if you are very good at jumping you'll always fall prone after doing so
>>86835117He also screams and rants on reddit about how he is always objectively right due to raw.
>>86823586>>86823222I had a player that facetiously argued that once and I just ran with it. They died but it didn’t change most things but it was also true for everything the party or other people “killed”. Enemies would keep fighting, even butchered animals would try to keep going about their business. As things died they knew that they should still be here but were. Some lashed out against the world of the living while others departed, seeking the underworld and afterlife where they belonged, and still other groups tried to take advantage of it to cause more chaos or even fight back with groups that could annihilate people so that they died and were deleted or shunted from reality entirely. The world became a huge mess and the players had to set out on an epic journey to the lands of the dead to make right their mistakes and remake the world.I basically made them play through the world myth of Glorantha without them knowing it. Good times.
>>86835207Hes one of those people who tries to use real life physics to game the system and then scream that the book doesnt say he cant. I actively despise him.
>>86821279>you explodeThere is nowhere on the rules that says that you explode if you try that. This is literally RAI.
>>86835367>>86835333that is, in fact, over 3
>>86832294>Also, with enough the same amount of players, you can never lose any ship battle because the action economy will be so weighted you can't loose.I usually never say this, but in this case I don't think it takes that much effort for the GM to simply add more NPCs to the enemies' ships.
>>86836788>you move yourself 5' away from yourself
>>86837356Where's the rule saying moving away from yourself makes you explode?
>>86837356Worst case scenario it does nothing. No reason to explode.
>>86837523>>86837533ITT: joyless retards.
>>86823222IIRC DnD 3.5 also had a similar thing, where the effects associated with being dead were technically tied to droping to low enough HP to kill the character. So if you could end up with a character that was dead but also had a positive HP total you would RAW be able to act as normal except you wouldn't be able to be affected by any spells and abilities that specifically affect living creatures.There wasn't any way in the rules for this to happen, though, so it was a purely theoretical matter. At least untill Dragon Magazine released the Peasant class in an April Fools issue, which was an intentionally terrible joke class that, among other things, had a random peasant trait trable you could roll during character creation, which included an entry that simpyl read "Dead: you are dead". Since it didn't mention anything about reducing your HP or applying any of the effects dying normally causes, RAW the character should still be technically playable. Though between the Peasant class being dogshit and you unable to be affected by any healing (which requires a living target), "playable" is probably pushing it.The Peasant is more infamous for another result in the same table, chicken-infested, which gave you a chance to pull out a chiken whenever you tried to retrieve an item from your inventory. People found all sorts of ways to break the game using your ability to create theoretically infinite amounts of chickens.
>>86833861Obvious typo, should be, "...take the form of a *seal* or sea lion".But you're going to pretend they meant 'body of water' until you see printed errata, because you're an obnoxious contrarian who wants to score nerd points on a fucking anime board.Get a job, pendejo.
>>86837829It just doesn’t fit the criteria of RAW issues. DND has plenty of those, that one is just a DM being dumb.
>>86837931Retard, that is the point he is making.
>>86837847Wouldn’t effects that kill you without hp loss cause that same issue, or did the rules include things about your hit points dropping if something kills you rather than starting dead like with the Peasant?
>>86837847My favorite feat is Elf, that’s right feat, not flaw. Keep that in mind>Requirement: Kobold, This feat can only be selected by mistake>You immediately turn into a Elf before being killed by KoboldsYou catch that? No duration. No rule that says you revert to being a Kobold after death. This means, assuming you had flaws and took the Dragonwroght feat, you could be a elf with the dragon type. Plenty of uses for that assuming you have the cast to pay for resurrection at level 1 somehow
>>86837931Why even bother coming into this tread when you knew it would make you angry? Eat something and relax
>>86837523If every part of your body was suddenly moved 5' away from any other part of your body it would very much resemble an explosion.
>>86838293But being pushed by a force in one spot in one direction is not that. Unless you want to argue mage hand can now explode anything.
>>86838368The shove and mage hand are desperate effects.
>>868212795e Warlock Invocation Grasp of Hadar or the later released Repelling Blast.Both move target hit 10ft toward or away from caster respectively. No save, instantaneous effect, size or position does not matter.Normally won't be an issue in most cases. But say your DM likes to place lots of deep holes on the map for you to be pushed or pulled into every fucking encounter. Spiked walls and floors for you to be shoved up against. He'll even pushed or pulled into gelatinous cubes or black puddings!But when -you- decide to try to use Grasp of Hadar or Repelling Blast. Suddenly things like "Oh he was holding onto the ledge so he isn't pulled". Or "his friend grabs him before he falls in the pit you pulled him toward" and whatever other bull shit reason to prevent you from using the ability.Am I the only one who had to deal with this?
>>86838368That's a RAI interpretation though. This thread is about RAW interpretations.
>>86838413>size or position does not matter.>10 ft of movementHonestly? I'd have used it on buildings. Or the planet.
>>86838503Show me where in the rules as written it says you explode.
Am I remembering incorrectly, or did one edition include RAW drowning rules where it would *set* your HP to zero and then begin ticking down? Which resulted in the very best first aid being a bucket full of water?
>>86838516Works on creatures only. >>86838413That’s not a raw issue so much as bad GMing. If you can’t handle some low level forced movement then don’t slap hazardous terrain on the map
>>86838518How else do you rule moving away from yourself?
>>86838577Nothing happens, mahe hand doesnt have enough force to move a person which is what the feat uses as the motive force.
>>86838571>Works on creatures only.[philosophically] and what is the planet, really, or a university, but a great living thing?Anyway, really, if you could indicate *any* direction, why not allow someone to, say, spin something on its axis, or at an angle? Get like four or five Warlocks, have them all prep actions on an elephant, suddenly the elephant is moved 50 feet away from the crowd of casters diagonally and up (I suppose in this case they would have to be quite close, maybe even adjecent), probably towards something or someone they really don't like. All the enemy hears is "PULL!" and the trumpeting of a surprised pachyderm.
>>86838608The wording of the abilities does specify that the creature is either pulled toward the caster or pushed away from the caster in a straight line. There is so little written on what is or isn't possible with this intention so in theory.. launching elephants may be possible.
>>86838598It also doesn’t have enough force to push a Tarrasque 5 feet but the feat can
>>86838088>>86837847There was the opposite. The spell disintegrate said that if you reached 0 HP from the damage of the spell you instantly turned into dust. Nowhere it said that you were dead, and in fact you didn't die at 0 hp, you died at -10. So technically you could take still spell and silent spell and use disintegrate to turn yourself into a living, spellslinging cloud of dust.
>>86838598It's not mage hand tho.
>>86838690But what happens if you get inhaled by something else? Or if there's a stiff wind? What about falling into water? Honestly the whole situation seems rather more horrifying than useful.
>>86838668Only if it fails a str check of 8+ your proficiency mod. In other words no, it cannot push a terrasque.
>>86821279man if my player did that id have em blast their brain outof their meat suit and play the rest of the game as a telecenetic brain. replace all ability scores with your int or cha mod, base ac off it too give em extra for being small and nimble. limited to only 1 hp due to being a brain, and no helmets. thatd be like a tin foil hat and make their psychics not work. they could do a sheet tho. to look like a ghost. idk how they are gonna eat tho, might have to absorb mineral salts through osmosis in a stew pot
>>86838732Honestly I would just allow this since its a bonus action added 5 feet, doesnt that mean he cant cast any more spells that turn?
>>86838939Yes it can.
>>86838980So they became an intellect devourer?
>>86838988How are you stunning the terrasque?
>>86838993maybe if they are of an evil alignment. but if they wernt into that or were good natured id have to think of something else. maybe like basking in magnetic/sonic waves, or like eating bad memories out of people. oh, or dreams. that would be wild. i think there are some dream walking spells i could steal from somewhere that would be good for em
>>86839029I mean that just sounds like a fun character to play.
>>86839000It's not immune. Also you add your ability mod to the DC, worth noting.>>86838984Free to cast spells.
>>86839038id have to work out stats and fairness with the player post session but thats what id probably improv in the session. and yeah it does sound kinda radonce they get higher level and start missing being able to effectively attune to magic items id have him stumble upon a bit of mercury in the ground, then learn he can control it with psychic rays. that would be sweet for higher level
>>86838690Becoming some kind of a dust-lich is pretty metal. I can totally see that as an actual DnD monster.
>>86838984It’s not a spell so he can cast spells normally. It’s a good feat mostly for that reason, that and because any action economy friendly forced movement is good be default.
>>86838293Where does it say that RAW?The raw is that you can’t pull or shove yourself with the feat.
>>86838413No that isn’t a RAW issue that is a DM being a little bitch.
>>86838984As the others said, it isn’t a spell.RAW, you can’t shove yourself with it. However it is still a super powerful feat. You can, for example, use it to pull character out of enemy grapples since the save is for the character targeted rather than the guy holding them and the character can just choose to fail.Can also use it to move enemies into or through harmful areas. A classic is with a cleric’s Spirit Guardians where you pull them into it for damage on your turn and then they take more damage on their turn too.I’ve seen a DM allow the shove to be used for knocking enemies prone too, which is awesome but absolutely NOT the RAW or RAI.
>>86839000>how are you stunning the terrasque?With style.
>>86839175>The raw is that you can’t pull or shove yourself with the feat.Wrong. RAW you only need to see the creature. You can see yourself.
>>86838690What about power word kill?
>>86821279Cool the PC is now a mob of limbs, organs, and such that can act as normal since the feat does no damage on its own, only moves target. I will now describe how my large intestine makes the gestures necessary to cast a spell.
>>86839056Player slowly transmutes into being an elder brain carried around in a jar by the party.
>>86839528Sounds rad, go full horror party
>>86838413your GM is a dick, creative use of terrain should be rewarded not punished or disregarded
>>86821279>DnD5e >Vuman Divination Wizard with Lucky and Silvery Barbs spam>Turns every roll from advantage to super disadvantage, even other players to a lol quirky That Guy>Leads to GM throwing creatures with a lot more legendary resistance points just to keep up with his shenanigans>When everyone else is fairly balanced but suffer when they no-sell our save or sucks too.This was from a recent high level one-shot in Eberron crossed with Strixhaven where everyone where everyone was playing 1/4 caster martials or half casters stuck in remedial classes Breakfast Club style until they had to save the multiverse.>One player had a Custom Lineage notVuman L15 Maverick Artificer with Metamagic Adept for Subtle/Quickened tricks>GM lets us all have 1 uncommon item for the Oneshot>Artificer takes Bloodwell Vial>GM thinks he can't use it until he sees the L14 Artificer ability>Artificers can attune to any item at L14 ignoring class, race, spell, or level requirements for attuning to an item.>GM thinks it won't be an issue because you only get it when you spend a hit dice and that's often done at short/long rests>Until the Artificer starts spamming Wither & Bloom so it can get to spend hit dice, making them fairly tanky along with a nuisance based on them using eldritch blast and Twinned Silvery Barbs Spam too.While technically DMs Guild, everyone swore up and down that Exploring Ebberon was a great book since Crawford himself wrote it and it is on a lore/fluff aspect. but t's infusions and classes get even more borked with canon rulebooks. When the GM made them switch to another subclass they just took Armorer with Fey Touched to get Silvery Barbs and got the Arcane Trickster Rogue and Eldritch Archer to cast Wither and Bloom and Join in on the Silvery Barbs spam.
>>86839692yeah i can make them choose it by giving them wicked bonuses when they eat a brain. like if they eat a goblin brain they have advantage on all goblin related checks. maybe even give other players bonuses too if they accept the covenant of the mind or whatever.tell em "youd probably be safer and not to mention maintain your moisture better if you lived in a jar full of brine"if you let them choose each step they wont even realize whats happening till they are too far down to turn back. sorta like taking out college loans.
>>86839324No the target needs to be within a distance of you and you are not within a distance of yourself.
>>86840848>you are not within a distance of yourself.well then where the FUCK are you my dude?you ARE within a distance of yourself; the point at 0,0 is within 1 unit of 0,0
>>86821279In dnd 4e it's specified that you are not an ally of yourself (it's done so you can't target yourself with effects that target your allies) but they also define enemies as "every creature that is not an ally".So technically you are your own enemy.
Shoutouts to all systems that don't specifically explain that being dead means being incapable to keep fighting.
>>86840899It is just how the rules work, you are not within a distance of yourself. And it makes sense, you can’t be “within” 0 because there is no distance. It is why spells have their own section on targeting which mentions that you can target yourself with them.>Targeting Yourself>If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you. If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself.But as people are keen to point out, telekinesis is not a spell and so RAW cannot target yourself because you aren’t within a distance of yourself.Some DM’s allow it but it is just a house rule when they do it, and one that makes a powerful feat even stronger.
>>86841090There are lots of other things like this where effects happen to things within a distance of something but they don’t impact the thing itself. The lightning arrow spell for example doesn’t have the secondary effect impact the original target because it isn’t within 10 feet of itself and the wild sorc surge that does necrotic damage to everyone within 30 feet of the sorcerer doesn’t hit the sorcerer.
>>86821279Because of movement speed limitations, Jump is near enough useless if you have 20str already because each foot of jump costs 1 foot of movement.Long jump horizontal movement- standing: 10ft jump- running start: 10ft run + 20ft jump- standing w/ Jump: 30ft jump- running start w/ Jump: 10ft run + 20ft jump- Real Life world record long jump w/ running start: 29ft 4.25inch- running start w/Jump if 5e wasn't shit: 10ft run + 60ft jumpHigh Jump vertical movement- standing: 4ft jump- running start: 8ft jump- standing w/ Jump: 12ft- running start w/ Jump: 20ft (10ft running start caps vertical movement to 20)- Real Life world record high jump w/ running start: 8ft- w/o 5e movement cap: 24ftDon't tell my DM though, she doesn't read the rules so my warlock with a belt of giants strength is currently leaping across the battlefield like fucking Warwick
>>86841328What about if you Dash?
>>86841573dash explicitly increases your speed for the turn so you can increase the cap to 60ft total, but that either takes being a rogue or a standard actionlong jump 10ft run + 50ft jump
>>86841643What if you toss athlete feat on there?
>>86841643Well that isn’t so bad then. You mention a running start but if you aren’t dashing is it really a proper run? Seems more like a brisk jog otherwise.
>>86830226mindbroken by gurps
>>86841127They both should though.
>>86822562>>86822583I might be wrong but it seems like you missed the joke.
>>86840993>Trust no one, not even yourself
>>86821279They told me RAW I douldnt do 3000d8 damage with a bag of ballbearings using catapult. Fucking control freak dm.
>>86840993>you are your own enemythat's pretty zen, is that why 4e has the best monk?
>>86845697Thats not pedantic thats just common sense
>>86821279I know in FATAL it’s possible to have negative anal circumference
>>86845697>Choose one object weighing 1 to 5 pounds within range that isn’t being worn or carried. The object flies in a straight line up to 90 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface. If the object would strike a creature, that creature must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the object strikes the target and stops moving. When the object strikes something, the object and what it strikes each take 3d8 bludgeoning damage.The ball bearings don't weight 1 pound each, if that was the case you'd only get to fire one of them with the spell. The object is the bag of ball bearings so the entire bag hits the target at once.Read the fucking spell.
>>86847897The bag holds them. They dont stop after moving.
>>86847897>choose one objectYou may choose the bag of ball bearings as your one object. That would make it one object, not 1000 objects.
>>86845855No, it's because - like much of 4e's design - they decided to make it so that classes other than dedicated spellcasters get Cool Things To Do instead of "I dunno, just swing at them and describe it, I guess"
>>86839936Seconded, I went out of my way to make interesting terrain, and it made me very sad that so little effort went in to take advantage of it last time I played. If your DM isn't allowing creative solutions he's officially no fun. The best time I ever had DMing was where the barbarian was power gaming to fastball our rogue as an improvised projectile, and the rogue was taking his turn while flying through the air.
>>86848606"Hulking Hurler Goliath with a party of halflings" is objectively one of the most fun builds I've ever played.
>>86847994>They dont stop after movingThat's explicitly the point of "after moving" moving is done, ie stop
>>86848764Bag goes flying bag opens, bag dumps balls, each ball hits for 3d8.
>>86848894The object effected by the spell is the bag, the balls do nothing.
>>86848932Balls are part of the spell anon, the bag contains them.
>>86839976Your play group sounds atrocious and full of autism.
>>86848998the object being cast upon is the bag. "The bag and the contents" is clearly more than one object by any sensible definition. Sure the bag's acceleration will be transferred to the balls but RAW only the object targeted by the spell deals the damage
>>86839976>>GM thinks it won't be an issue because you only get it when you spend a hit dice and that's often done at short/long restsI think you accidentally a word, but are you trying to say that he would spam rolling hit dice to get a ton of sorcery points? Cause if so...>In addition, when you roll any Hit Dice to recover hit points while you are carrying the vial, you can regain 5 sorcery points. This property of the vial can't be used again until the next dawn.
>>86849307And the object is a 2 lb bag of ballbearings.
>>86834924You say bug, I say feature.>player scouts ahead, encounters a mimic>retreats through a doorway I make explicit lacks a door>party runs in from outside to gang up on the mimic>mimic is gone, party razzes pc for not keeping an eye on it>pc gets grumpy, slams the door shut so the mimic can't sneak out past the party>scouts hand sticks to the handle>door violently objects to the attempted slamming, begins slamming the scout into the wall instead
>>86849749Yes, and the bag of ball bearings collectively do 3d8 of damage.
>>86834924it really makes sense if you think about it, if they could only shapeshift into treasure chests they'd never make it out in the world.
>>86849755>the warrior prepares to draw his sword>there are two, identical swords
>>86834150legend of the five rings 4th do it pretty well in my opinion. Technically, "11" as a dice result doesnt exist without bonuses. but since TNs are all multiples of 5, its no big deal.
>>86852170In l5r you summed the results, while in Shadowrun you count the dice that are equal or more than the result, no? Not really the same thing.
>>86851236Not after they split into hundreds of balls on the way.
>>86848894The entire bag counts as the object and holds enough inertia to do the 3d8 of damage. If the bag opens and the balls fall out, each ball will carry a degree of that energy, but not nearly as much as the entire bag. You can try that yourself.Put metal balls in a bag, tie it and throw the bag. It will leave a considerable mark and a good throw to the head can even knock someone out. But if you instead grab a handfull of the balls and throw it to someone, you'll at best cause some superficial blunts, but spreading the force across several smaller balls will make it overall weaker as a weapon.
>>86854831>The entire bag counts as the object and holds enough inertia to do the 3d8 of damageYes exactly full stop. Now since every ball is seperate they keep that inertia and each do 3d8 damage.
>>86823704Shut up nigger
>>86822697>>Past a certain level you can create a pair of level 20 wizards with a second level spell slot>As an action, you can channel the magic of the Song of Creation to create one nonmagical item of your choice in an unoccupied space within 10 feet of you. The item must appear on a surface or in a liquid that can support it. The gp value of the item can't be more than 20 times your bard level, and the item must be Medium or smaller. Don't see how two wizards can count as non-magical and worth 20 gp or less, even if you accept your definition of "item".
>>86854989Can you point me to the paragraph on the manual that talks about the existence of inertia? Can you point me to the paragraph on the manual that talks about how an object split itself if thrown?The spell affect the ball of bearings, which is one object. The object splitting itself while flying is not a thing that happens by RAW. You need DM fiat in order for it to do it. And if DM fiat alter the spell then it's left to DM fiat to decide the damage. Either you use raw or you use physics and common sense. Trying to use both is just dumb and lets you get fucked over by any sensible DM.
>>86855362He's just trolling.
>>86821279The stupidest readings come, not from RAW but from RAW mixing with some idiots idea of what happens. Best example is the peasant railgun. Yes, you can transport a rock from one end of a long line of peasants to the other at a very fast pace but when the last peasant goes to throw it, it still counts as an improvised thrown weapon with a shitty damage die & low range, not a hyperspeed velocity projectile
>>86854989You can't selectively choose to use real physics AND game rules together whenever they benefit you.
>>86836553Ha nice one
>>86840993>So technically you are your own enemy.I mean. Statistically you are the person the most likely to kill you.
>>86855670The truth is most game breaking RAW shenanigans require ignoring other rules to pull off
>>86822435It does in the good version: "Blind Fighting - Being unable to see a creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it, provided the creature isn't hidden from you."
>>86837847>>86838690Both of these arent a problem if one just goes over character creation rules (tho TBF, i think that was covered in 3e, but in 3.5 the phb skipped a lot of side text thus might remember wrong for .5 specifically).If its no longer a character, but a object or nothing, you cant play it without really smart shenanigans+lenient DM like other PC crafting sentience, template stacking prior to un-existing, etc.
>>86854760Nope, they are all destroyed.Cope and seethe, but you cant fight RAW because its a small and lots of tiny objects that are fragile that minimum take more damage than their base hp (3 and 2 respectively).
>>86855682>>86856559RAW says they go flying, they dont stop flying just because it hurts your feelings. They impact with 3d8 damage each. Roll me 1000d8.
>>86855362Point to mw where it says they dont have inertia.
>>86856604Inertia doesn't exist.
>>86856447Arguably a dead character is still a character. Normally such a character would still be unplayable, but technically most effects associated with being dead are tied to being at -10 HP, not the "dead" condition itself, so a character that is at positive HP should RAW be playable, even if they have the "dead" condition applied to them.
>>86854989Rule book doesn't day that the contents of an object thrown does damage, only the object itself numbnuts
>>86856785Rule book doesnt say contents of an object do not do damage either.
>be pro mtg player>play pithing needle to shut down your opponent's combo piece>opponent being a faggot plays and uses its ability>call judge over>well you said Borborygmos and not Borborygmos enraged so you didnt stop his ability
These stories remind me of a time as a rookie playing wargames. Apparently, in AoS, line of sight meant that my characters had to be able to see most of the other model. I argued so long as I can draw a line from my model to any part of theirs, I could make the shot. I read the rulebook out multiple times, but apparently I was a dumb, stupid rookie who didn't know the rules.Meanwhile, those assholes pulled everything they had on me in return.I don't play wargames anymore. Fuck those assholes.
>>86849749that's more than one object, dicknips
>>86856597Rules as Written; 3d8 damage worth of KE is conveyed to any single object that weighs less than a pound.A ball bearing deals 3d8 damage. A 1lb bag of ball bearings deals 3d8 damage (More mass, less speed) unless you select a single ball bearing from the bag which fires as above.The spell is very clear that it's imparting 3d8 damage worth of force to an object (since the damage is not dependent on the weight of the object thrown).Now, the interesting outcome is based on the damage to materials, any typical bag would burst, dropping a bunch of ball bearings into the 5ft square. This would likely work with most alchemical components (or at least a prepared vessel for more exotic compounds and adventuring tools.
>>86857339See this is fine, you want to fling some acid/alchemical fire/ poison to make it worse? Perfectly fine way to use it. Trying to juryrig a metalsyorm bullet? Fuck no. That's like saying if a splinter which flew off from a crate you threw should cause the same impact as yhe crate itself
>>86857859Not really, raw it does only impact damage of 3d8
>>86857339That's one way to do it. Ruleslawyer back>so you cast in on a bag with a bunch of ball bearings in it, yeah?>yes gm so all the bearings should do damage too>sure. and the bag is between them and the target? So the target takes 3d8 damage from the bag, and the bearings hit that bag with 3000d8 damage. The bag is gone.>haha gm but the shockwave hits the target too, right?>sorry, RAW gives no ruling on shockwaves so I'll have to disallow it.
>>86858264Wouldnt that mean you can negate any fall damage by hitting a paper tarp first?
>>86858255Yes but also by RAW, if said substance comes into contact with a target it does x
>>86858274Spell it out for me, anon. Also remember that RAW I could land on cotton candy clouds and unless the material is specifically called out as reducing fall damage, it doesn't reduce fall damage.
>>86858274No, by that ruling you would suffer x damage when you hit the paper tarp, then continue falling, after you sundered the tarp
>>86821279When 40k 5th edition introduces true line of sight, it led to some exploits. The rules stated that wounds had to be allocated to the models that the unit that inflicted the wounds would be able to see (i.e. if some members of a squad are standing in the open and others are hiding behind a los-blocking wall, the guys in the open are the ones who die from shooting). However, that led to people using their own tanks to strategically block the line of sight of their own models so that the only enemy model that could be seen, and therefore would be the one to die if your opponent failed any armor save, was the model carrying a heavy weapon or some other important piece of wargear that you wanted to remove.Also, since los was supposed to be measured from the model's eye level and the explanation on what counted as a visible model specifically excluded things like wings, antennae, or weapons (so if all you could see of an enemy modle was a wing or a sword poking from behind a wall, you wouldn't count as having los to it), I remember some people suggesting modeling their Chaos Space Marines with eyes on the end of long stalks so that they could see from behind terrain while remaining out of los, or modeling a winged model so that the wings enclosed the body, RAW rendering it invisible since the wings don't count for los but would be the only part you could see.
>>86858330>I remember some people suggesting modeling their Chaos Space Marines with eyes on the end of long stalks so that they could see from behind terrain while remaining out of los, or modeling a winged model so that the wings enclosed the body, RAW rendering it invisible since the wings don't count for los but would be the only part you could see.Ironically that was a real life trick for ships. If you wanted to observe a static tatget like a fort without being seen you could position your ship so that the lookout was just above the line of the horizon, so that it could see the target without being actually seen.
>>86854760Yes, even after splitting, they collectively do 3d8.
>>86858785Good to see grapeshot doesnt work in 5e. Guess ships have to use only cannonballs.
>>86858330>I remember some people suggesting modeling their Chaos Space Marines with eyes on the end of long stalks so that they could see from behind terrain while remaining out of los,That would be pretty funny it they also modelled them holding their guns above their heads as well.
>>86858968Grap shot doesn't roll for damage on each pellet individually, you mong. It does a collective amount of damage.
>>86859082Is it more or less than 3d8
>>86859114So a cannon the equivalent of the catapult spell?
>>86859200If it throws the same amount of lead.
40k Pythagoras deepstrikingEngagement range in 40k 9th edition is 1 inch. When you perform a charge, you roll 2d6 and have to end with at least 1 model from the unit within 1 inch range of target unit.Deepstriking (or teleports) almost always have you deploy your unit more than 9 inches away from other units. Since you are 9 inches away, you have to roll a 9 on 2d6 to make it to within 1 inchHowever, when a model is on a second level of a building, they are in engagement range with a model on the first floor of a building, if they are within 1 inch horizontally and 3 inches vertically. Furthermore, the distance between models is measured base to base, but it says nowhere that this is from a top-down perspective, so you measure diagonally from a model that is on the second floor to a model on the ground floor. This means that looking at it from the top view, you can deepstrike your units closer than 9 inches from a unit on the second floor of a building, and make the charge on an 8
>>86859227Anon, my arm and a gun can launch the same amount of lead, that doesn't mean they'll do the same amount of damage.
>>86821279Using the ruling on channel energy's seperate stacking being identical to animal companions in pf1e by RAW implies that prestige class and similar sources stack with independant sources, meaning you can, in theory of the dm that allows it, advance animal companions up to 6x your character level with enough patience.
>>86837931I don't play with no fun allowed spics.
>>86859302Are you throwing it fast enough to matter? Cause catapult is.
>>86859356Anon, please show me where Catapult says it launches the item with the force of a cannon
>>86859446Show me where it says it doesnt.
>>86859478Show me where in the rules putting a cat into water doesn't turn it into gold.
>>86859636Good to know that at your table anything not explicitly forbade by the rules works.
>>86825288>Let me tell you how stupid you are>Reveals how stupid he is
>>86833861OCEAN MAN TAKE ME BY THE HAND LEAD ME TO THE LAND
>>86858330You're thinking of 6th. 5th was very permissive, and your sergeant, flamer and missile launcher were always the last 3 units alive.
In PF2e, getting Stunned 1 during your turn ends your turn immediately and makes you unable to take reactions/free actions until the start of your next turn, when Stunned wears off.This is because the Stunned condition says that you can't act while stunned, and the Stunned condition can only be decreased when you regain actions, which normally only happens during the start of your turn.
>>86860055Doesn't that make sense? It seems hard to get stunned on your turn anyway. But if you were I think opening a chest with 2 actions left, and a flashbang stun 1'ing you and leaving you, well, stunned for the rest of the turn and then losing 1 action next turn is fine. Easy enough to house rule if you really hate that, though.
>>86821420That's just horseshit from crawfish. I'm not even sure he's the one who wrote up invisibility and see invisibility for 5e. There were a lot of devs working on 5e and crawfish is a horrible lead. Almost all of his rulings are just no fun bad rulings.
>>86860167There are some rare edge cases where the balance of it becomes questionable, primarily involving readied actions.It is true that this is trivial to fix by houseruling it so that any stuns applied during your turn immediately subtract your actions and only remain in effect if they exhaust all your actions, but that's not really the point of this thread is it. It also makes one wonder if this is deliberate design or just an oversight.
>>86821462>Picture it like a magical shimmer around the creature that makes them hard to hit.That's literally just the definition of Blur, also a second-level spell.https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Blur#contentThe invisibility giving disadvantage is an actual bullshit ruling
>>86860055That's the case in pretty much every edition of D&D where immediate actions or reactions exist.
>>86860237My money is on oversight. Normally with stuff like that, they'll mention the exceptional case like "this means that if you get stunned by a readied action, your turn essentially ends!" or something like that. The legalese trend for rules and removal of these personable asides makes RAI much harder to suss out, honestly. And additionally gives power to RAWtists.
>>86860362Stunned in PF2e works differently from D&D.
>>86856597Literally not how RAW works for that spell. Retard. The ball bearings don't leave the bag on impact, or if they do the force from catapult ends as soon as the bag connects and all the ball bearings have a velocity of 0ft per second.
>>86856844Yeah it doesn't say they do so they don't. You're only casting a spell on the container. Spells in 5e only do what it says on the tin by RAW.
>>86858274Fall damage if anything would negate half the damage with a successful check, see XgtE. However it's not causing falling damage which is its own special type of damage in 5e.
>>86860632>You're only casting a spell on the container.So the container immediately impacts with it's contents not moving and dealing 3d8 damage to the ball bearings.
>>86858968Grapeshot still works but not using the spell catapult for it.
>>86859478Spells only do what they say they do.A canon does 8d10 damage according to the DMG. Far more than the 3d8 of catapult so it strikes with much less force.
>>86859478>>86859636Oh you're one of those types. Let me break you>gm, it doesn't say if my character moves up down, up down, left right, left right, and then says B A select start they get made king of the world and you have to do everything I/my character says, so that's what I have them do. Spread those asscheeks, GM, I'm going in dry
>>86855200>Don't see how two wizards can count as non-magical and worth 20 gp or lessYou can't put a price on a human being (unless you are Evil).Ergo, non-evil characters could summon humans wizards lacking inherent monetary value.You don't understand this cuz you are Evil.
>>86860889We have a way of determining the economic value of people, and it's called a slave market.
>>86860889You can't put a price on a human being because they are valued infinite, not zero.
>>86860889>summon humans wizards lacking inherent monetary value.A human wizard is worth the value of their spell casting services they could perform.
>>86860974Is there a price on casting cantrips? If not then this isn't a great counter-argument because you could say you're summoning then with 0 spells available, and thus their current value is 0.
>>86839692I think one of the undead focused books for 3.5e actually had rules for playing as a brain in a jar.
>>86856604> There's nothing in the rulebook that says a donkey CAN'T play basketball> There's nothing in the PHB that says my halfling's mount CAN'T be a Star Destroyer
>>86861013All wizards have at least level 0 spells. Their value is potential value during a day, regardless of what he has as that exact second.A level 1 wizard can cast 2 1st level spells so has a minimum value of 20gp plus any equipment they are wearing.Also it only lasts a number of hours equal to your proficiency bonus and it takes 8 hours to long rest, so if you summon one without spells it can't rest long enough to get them back. This isn't to count the fact that they are not non-magical as they can cast magic.
>>86861124Shit meant "at least level 1 spells"
>>86856604Don't have to prove a negative, retard. You need to prove the positive. If it's not listed it doesn't exist.
>>86861103i bet. now adays there is a zine for every system and 10 blogs too. im sure someone has rules for it in whatever system.maaan i saw a whole conversion for 4th edition to the mass effect universe. that was pretty rad too
>>86831940God I fucking hate this shit. Isn't that the same nonsense as that retarded peasant railgun thing i've heard about? I dunno, i'm a new TTRPG player.
>>86854760How, in your mind, do the ball bearings leave the bag on the way to the target?
>>86860212It checks out RAW. Not being able to be seen and the advantage/disadvantage features of invisibility are separate clauses of the condition in the book. Something like See Invisible only counters the 1st part of the condition but not the 2nd. It is horribly designed and they should have errata’s it so the advantage/disadvantage came from not being able to be seen like normal rather than a separate function of the condition.
>>86856411>It does in the good version: "Blind Fighting - Being unable to see a creature doesn't impose disadvantage on your attack rolls against it, provided the creature isn't hidden from you."Nope, still won’t RAW prevent disadvantage when attacking something invisible or stop their advantage on hitting you because the “you can’t see me” part of invisibility that causes normal advantage/disadvantage is separate from a 2nd clause that unnecessarily just gives disadvantage to enemies and advantage to you. It is very stupid but that is what this thread is about, stupid RAW.
>>86862827Pretty much. All his videos are some stupid rules lawyering bullshit. He loves going WELL THE RULES DONT SAY YOU CANT! while doing things like claiming casting enlarge on a creature makes any weapon damage it does go up over what the spell says because he claims it would move all weapons up into huge size rating which makes monsters stronger or some shit.
>>86860264Here is the 5e Invisible condition for reference. The 1st bullet point deals with the "not being able to be seen" part of being invisible which then will cause all the expected interactions including advantage on attacks against and disadvantage on attacks by things that can't see you.However, the boxed 2nd bullet is the problem. The invisible condition just directly gives advantage on attacks and disadvantage on being attacked with no conditions to it other than the invisible condition itself. Most things that deal with invisibility only address the 1st clause, "not being seen" but not the 2nd. See Invisible would need to say something like "you can ignore the invisible condition of things within x distance of you" which would counter both parts but as written it only addresses the "can't see them" part, the 1st bullet.It's absolutely retarded.>>86821420>The invisibility giving disadvantage is an actual bullshit rulingIt is a bullshit rule, not a bullshit ruling. Knowing the RAW is important and any good DM should house rule it because the RAI is clearly different here. Of course a good DM might also be wise to try not playing D&D.
>>86858264Don’t forget that the spell has the object stop or it hits anything. The air is full of microsolids such as dust and pollen, meaning that the bag will not be able to go anywhere because it will immediately hit dust, bacteria, pollen, etc in the air and be stopped. Means that if someone tried to be a retard like this troll and ignore the RAW and RAI of the spell by pulling things out of thin air you can immediately shut them down even harder.
>>86865367That's what it did in 3.5.
>>86834924They make for very interesting enemies.
>>86865634Im not talking about what the spell actually says Im talking he claims it adds more than it says it does.
>>86861107>> There's nothing in the rulebook that says a donkey CAN'T play basketball
>>86861107There is a entire series of movies proving you right so I agree.
>>86858264>>86858274>>86858292This thread is making my blood pressure spike. I'm new to this kinda stuff as a GM and my players are either totally new too or average experience in this stuff and not the most creative.If I ever have to deal with this kinda stuff I might lose my shit. Does anyone as a GM explicitly have experience with a player trying to pull this shit on them with something really fucking dumb?
>>86865738Generally, if they're your irl friends, you'll be alright. If it does happen, don't even bother with this bullshit, and just invoke rule 0.Rule 0: The GM always has the final say, because they are arbitator for the game. If someone does not like your ruling, they got two options: accept it and move on, or run the game themselves. You're putting the most work into the game, after all.But really anon, you'll likely be fine. /tg/ is just a gathering of the best and worst players all at once, so we could come up with hypotheticals to make your blood curdle.
>>86865821Fortunately my players and myself included only have each other to play so they'll have to accept my rulings I guess, and vice versa if any of the lazy bastards ever GM and I get to play. Everyone wants to play but no one wants to put in the work for GM'ing, man.
>>86865853GMs do get a raw deal, I get that. Based on some fast estimates from the offical 5e discord, there's about 1 gm to every 300 players out there. Baffling ratio. However, it does mean you hold the power. Use it, and have fun. GMing is very rewarding in it's own right, and makes you all the better player for it.
>>86865738Almost all systems have a rule 0 that says the GM can change or modify any rules. You want a player to fall onto a tarp that breaks their fall without breaking their bones? It happens because you say it happens. Don’t want elephants to be able to climb sheer cliffs? You can say they don’t. The key is being sensible and consistent, and keeping the players informed at the earliest possible opportunity. So if a player takes the invisibility spell let them know you will tie the advantage/disadvantage to the not being seen portion rather than waiting until a player tries to use it separately and frustrating them. Players should also be encouraged to let the GM know their plans in advance, keeping a secret from the GM and then hinging their plan on something that you interpret differently leaves them to blame for their own frustration. This is especially true if a player tries to ignore RAW and go with a whacky nonsense self serving interpretation like the troll is doing with the Catapult spell here.
>>86865882I don't mind GM'ing as I love world building, story telling and I have some okay amateur improv chops from years of improv jokes with friends. But I don't get why other people aren't as enthused for it sometimes. Like some of my players are very enthusiastic about character creation, we got an upcoming game and i've gone over character creation with them and they love that part, they love making OC Donut Steels and edgy badasses but no one wants to run and develop a world.All I want though is for them to have fun though, i'm not a dictator or nothing. I just want them to enjoy living in and adventuring in the world I pull the strings in.>>86865903>Players should also be encouraged to let the GM know their plans in advance, keeping a secret from the GM and then hinging their plan on something that you interpret differently leaves them to blame for their own frustration.This is exactly something Spoony would brag about in old Counter Monkey videos like he was a genius.
>>86865738To be honest while I love bouncing stupid shit ideas like this back and forth with my dm we never take it seriously. Stipid shit is fun to think about but dont ruin everyone elses fun.
>>86849749okay, then as the bag opens in midair, the one object "2 lb bag of ball bearings" ceases to exist, replaced by the thousands of objects "ball bearings and empty bag". "ball bearings and empty bag" were not the target of the catapult spell, and so do not deal 3d8 bludgeoning damage to any targets they may impact. additionally, the object "2 lb bag of ballbearings" no longer exists and therefor can not impact a target, and so also deals no damage. you win, and get absolutely nothing.
>>86867949Thanks for dragging up a day old post. Great job. Everybody clap.
>>86865738The most important thing about these things is DO NOT DISCUSS IT IN GAME.I can't say it enough. If one of your players try to pull it say no and then say "we we'll argue about it after the session". Do not, for any reason, argue about it in the middle of a session. These things grinds the game to a halt and always result in a ruined session. Trust me.
I was told that in pathfinder first edition, dogs are listed as "Environment: Any" and so RAW, wild, feral, or tamed dogs can be random encounters even at sea, in the sky, underground, or other places
>>86821279In 3.5 an artificer using metamagic shenanigans can load three Twinned Quickened Fell Drain Magic Missle or Sonic Snap into a Rod of Wands to absolute devastate foes with unstoppable level drain
>>86865738I once had an enemy cast Cloudkill and one of the PCs (kind of a newbie, I don't think he realised the box he was opening) was like, "Oh I have a special ability for holding my breath, can I use that?" Immediately the rules lawyer went to the section for breath-holding and was like, "Hey with our CON scores we can all hold our breath for like a minute, so we can just do that and not breathe in the cloud." I had to nope it right out the window, because a fifth level spell being completely negated by a free action is retarded. I let the newbie PC bypass it (it shouldn't have, but I wanted to encourage him to use his abilities more since he had a tendency to forget them) and otherwise ruled without foreknowledge of its coming the rest of the party still took it. Not the worst example in the world, but generally it's pretty obvious what is reasonable and what isn't, and as others have said the most important thing in the middle of a session is moving things forward; listen to an argument once, then make a ruling. If someone disagrees with that ruling, tell them to make a note of it and address it after the session.Sometimes some players also need reminding that metagaming is a two-way street. If they wish to exploit some poor wording in an obscure rule to do something ridiculous, so too can the enemies. And if they want to enter that nuclear-arms-race with you, the DM who holds absolute power over the world they are in, they are not going to win (to be clear I'm not suggesting you enter that arms-race, just that you remind them of where such a path leads).
>>86868595Cloudkill does actually explicitly state that creatures are affected even if they hold their breath or don’t need to breathe. I don't know if other editions than 5 do that, though.
>>86868953It was PF2, and it does not. It does specify 'breathing creature' (without specifying whether the creature is currently breathing, so could be taken as any creature capable of breath, or only any creature currently breathing) but such fiddly distinctions are gay. I just rule that we know what the spell intends, suck it up and move on.
>>86869214It was the right call.
>>86868112>As you said deeper into the ocean your lookout notifies you that he spots a pack of wild dogs swimming towards the shop, what do you do?
>>86869447Damn. Sea dogs.
>>86868112This means that Air Bud is legal.
>>86869522One might even go so far as to call them salty. Salty sea dogs.
>>86868112>>86869447>>86869483>>86869522>>86869578it's not as unlikely as you think
>>86870014Yeah but did this dog go swimming with an entire pack of other dogs in an effort to hunt down ships?
>>86821279Exalted 3e crafting XP>need to make basic stuff to build up reserves of tiered special XP spent on crafting>can't just make advanced stuff, HAVE to make a hundred shoes before you can make a sword>repairing items also uses this XP>repair XP uses same tiered XP>potential to get on a boat, hull gets damaged, literally cannot pick up tools to fix the hull because you didn't make enough shoes to let you make enough swords to let you have the tier 3 crafting xp needed to fix the boat>everyone dies
>>86870112We are talking about the same Exalted where you have a charm for shooting people full of health with the archery, right?
>>86821279what is "BA"?
>>86821279How did the DM reach that conclusion? He didn't say what he wanted to move himself away from.
>>86821420Wow, what a shitty system.
>>86831573Or anyone else.
>>86860055Ok? Should you be able to take actions while stunned?
>>86865738Don't use systems with retarded rules like dnd.