Dragoons are cool and I'm tired of pretending they are not.
True. But sadly you're referring to some dumb weeb bullshit and not to what a dragoon actually was.
Classes are for adventurer archetypes. Dragoons are not an adventurer archetype, they're a military unit.
>>86815315Dragoons? That's just mounted fighters.
>>86815326>>86815338>>86815567>/tg/ in a nutshell
>>86815338Dragoons were useless and phased out accordingly.
>>86815315>I'm tired of pretending they are not.Were you ever pretending they're not, for some weird reason, or are you just incapable of communicating without using memes regardless of whether they're relevant?
>>86815315FF dragoons are retarded and so are you for liking them>peanut brained retards who jump around a lot and wear spikey armour to taste less appealing when dragons inevitably eat them.
>>86815315Classes that fit in with the rest of the setting, instead of just throwing in whatever pop culture references the developers (or their predecessors) personally enjoy.I rarely see those classes in games.
>>86815750>/tg/ group consensus ends up being right>"/tg/ in a nutshell"If this bothers you, leave. These trash threads don't belong here.
>>86816454>""right""While cavalry with braces of pistols is fun in its own right, so is the ""weeb"" idea of fighter acrobat.
>>86815326Guy in dragon themed armor looks cool.Guy that looks like a band geek on a horse looks dumb for most settings.
>>86815315It's hard to figure out just what their deal is when Square never figured it out.>Guy in armor that can jump real good>Guy in armor that rides a cool dragon>Guy in armor that has a little dragon friend>Guy that really likes spears for some reasonMost of the time they do not stand out other than having cool looking armor. Then they are just any typical armored fighting guy that sometimes likes dragon stuff. Bot otherwise does things that any armored guy can do.Like the Blue Mage, they only really work out due to video game mechanics giving them a niche. Which for a dragoon is really wrapped around being taken off the battlefield when a boss mob does a kill everyone attack. Take them out of the video game and they are just a fighter that has a dragon friend or likes 2 hand piercing.
>>86815326Then go to /his/ or go to Google and search for historical tabletop RPG forums.
>>86817081>muh video gamesYou're retarded if you think a tabletop game couldn't represent Blue Mages copying powers and Dragoons jumping.
>>86815315What if I told you you don't need to have classes to play the character you want to play?I know, mind blowing for a DnDrone, but so is not trying to insert a round peg into a square hole in your case, so...
>>86815315The very idea of classes is a cancer upon TTRPGs
>>86817133>Non-visual media>Dealing with something that only makes sense when not only displayed, but in 3D environment modelYou could get a point when talking about battle minis. But all you are doing right now is just showing your no-game power level.
>>86817238>I don't know how to use tokens or write things down!
>>86815315What is a dragoon and why do you like them? I genuinely want to know.
>>86817081None of the traits you mentioned are mutually exclusive though. Dragoons are defined by all of them, in fact they all feed into each other. They jump a lot because dragons fly and they need to reach them. They wear spiky armor because that makes it harder for dragons to attack them, and because they can shape them in aerodynamic ways. They use spears because it's a penetrating two handed and also aerodynamic weapon that they can use to pierce dragon scales or aim for their weak spots. They often ride dragons because either they're fighting them by hopping on them or they had the "Dragons ain't so bad, let's team up" character development.If we go by XIV job standards, there are jobs which are way more of a mess thematically. Like Scholars where they're trying to combine a military general, academician and mystical fae theme all at the same time, together with a sailor background, and the obvious result is that they can never represent all of them at once and they all clash with each other.
>>86815315This is your dragoon for tonight
>>86817628Fuck off furfag
>>86817628Outfit looks like a SMN set from a X2-X6 dungeon.
>>86817628thats a blue mage retard>>86816443this, classes should have a specific reason for existing in a setting, their own place. many say that classes don't exist in-game but i think they should exist and have reasons for existing. "i read some magic books" or "i trained in a fighting style" don't make sense as classes, those should be skills. i don't like those games but things like the vampire clans in vtm or the castes in exalted make sense, the classes couple mechanics with actual, important parts of the setting instead of having mechanics that you try to ignore because "levels and classes don't actually exist, even tho they are 99% of what we care about in the character sheet"
>>86817133Oh so you have never once played a pen and paper game before. Got it
>>86817514Dragoons are defined by whatever stupid a SINGLE COMPANY says on a whim depending on the fucking weather. None of it matters. and none of it fits with any actual tabletop game of any kind.Time to fuck off obvious Nogames
>>86815315>Fighter player writes down that their armor is really dragoney looking>Fighter puts all skills into Two Hand Piercing>Ranger has favored enemy Dragon, and also writes down that their armor looks really dragoney>Fighter switches to DEX and jumps a lot while also writing down that their armor looks really dragoney>Monk with SpearOh look I did the thing, I added Dragoons to the game. Fuck off nogames
>>86817436They are warriors that combine high attack, high mobility and armor within a knightly archetype with always cool designs. Slaying dragons is as cool as riding them. Also, characters that autistically center around a specific fighting style are dumb-fun.
Would it be too cheeky to have my setting's dragoons be inspired by the historical mounted infantry of our world, but with the justification the their name came from their signature firearm, the dragon gun (dragun, for short)?
>>86815315Someone explain to me what dragoon he's talking about, I've never played eastern games much.
>>86817870Oh look, another retard incapable of writing things down and using tokens.
>>86818027That's just a fighter with different fluff.
>>86818446fuck off Nogames
>>86817081It's a fairly good point but in FFT they had breath attacks plus the jump could still be useful I'm and out of combat. I agree about Blue mages though, it's easy for a video game to have multiple super special spells flying around but that's hell for a dm to track
>>86815315What makes them different from a fighter holding a spear that can jump well?
>>86819367>in FFT they had breath attacks They didn't though. Unless you're talking about one of the FFTA games.
>>86817792Do you only play in settings pre-built for specific systems?
>>86819709no, i mainly play generic games that can be adapted to the setting rather than the opposite. but if there have to be classes, make them make sense.
>>86815315ESTINIEN!!!!! (He's the Azure Dragoon!)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deGvSwWQlEw
>>86815326Please go back to r*ddit Mr. Semantic "ACTYUALLY" Faggot.
Ascetics.Not monks, no druids or clerics. Just spiritual sages with strange powers and a surprising durability based on their mental strength.
>>86815326>Can't hang with heavy cavalry>Main duties get outperformed by Light Cavalry and Light Infantry>Main used because nations can get away with paying infantry salariesThe weebs turning them into dragon knights or sir jumpsalot was honestly for the best.
>>86815315What exactly do you mean by a dragoon? The anime man in your pic looks like a generic knight
>>86818027>They are warriors that combine high attack, high mobility and armor within a knightly archetypeSo it's literally just a knight. I thought you meant some kind of armored melee/ranged hybrid with a blade and a pistol, which really could be pretty cool I guess, but you're just copying mindless japs who picked the name just because it's related to "dragon" and didn't even bother to check what it actually means.
I'd rather have hussars/lancerswhich system has good mechanics for charging and outranging opponents?
>>86825771They're an order of dragon hunters who become super soldiers by absorbing the magic of the dragons they kill.
absolutely worthless nogaems thread aside, no one seems to have pointed out that they're called Dragon Knights in nip and "Dragoon" exists because early translators couldn't figure out what abbreviations weremake way for the real deal
>>86817890>X are defined by whatever stupid a SINGLE COMPANY says on a whim depending on the fucking weather. None of it matters. and none of it fits with any actual tabletop game of any kind.Congrats, you just defined 90% of 40k. I await your mad, scrambling goalpost move.
>>86818366There is a recurring Final Fantasy class called the Dragoon that is defined by being a dragon slayer class. They accomplish this by using magic to jump REALLY good, as in hundreds of meters into the air or more and even capable of midair direction changes. They wear spiky/bladed armor so that when they meet their inevitable end, they might cut up the dragons throat/get stuck and choke the bastard when they get swallowed whole. Their weapon of choice is a spear, which they use with their insane jumps to perform big plunging attacks. 90% of what makes a Dragoon a Dragoon can be done in most fantasy systems, the weapon and the armor and sometimes even the dragon-focus. But the JUMP is the key detail and defining power, and one that is rarely available to players because its Fly at will but situationally better because in a straight line its way faster. And you can see the appeal it holds for players, not only is it a cool JRPG class but there is so much more you can use that giga-jump for than just big plunging attacks, its a versatile power that would really flourish in a tabletop environment because it lets you pretty much drop in and jump out of situations at will. Who the hell is going to be able to keep up with you when you can just fuck off into the sky at a moments notice like you were shot out of a cannon?
>>86815315Based, its kinda impressive how much seething this thread created
>>86815315We don't need floor tanks in TRPGs, anon.
>>86815315Speaking of FF classes, I wouldn't mind seeing something akin to the Gambler class in more games.Super-meta luck manipulators with Casino themed abilities, somewhere between a Bard and a Wild Mage/Chaos Sorcerer, often with weird money affecting powers too.
I guess I’m out of the loop but I had no idea the word dragoon had a stupid weeb definition. When I read that word I instantly think of cavalry.
>>86828208Maybe you can fathom the concept that the same word can be used for different things?
>>86828217No shit retard, I’m just saying that I had never heard of it until now
>>86828208The real world Dragoons were mounted infantry (travel by horse/fight on foot) not cavalry (fight and travel on horseback). So you have been running on the wrong definition as well.The name comes from the "Dragon" class of firearms which are basically blunderbusses that have been shortened for ease of transport similar to how carbines are muskets that have been shortened for use on horseback.
>The job's Japanese name is Dragon Knight (竜騎士, Ryuukishi?). Dragon knights are commonly found in Japanese editions of western fantasy novels as a translation for terms such as "dragon knight" or "dragon rider," referring to knights and warriors who ride on dragons.>The term was likely originally localized as "Dragoon" due to the job name length restrictions, and to avoid confusion with the Dark Knight class, which was localized as "D.Knight," though it may have also been confused with the Japanese term for the Dragoon (竜騎兵, Ryuukihei?, lit. Dragon Cavalry). Through the course of the series, it has been localized as Lancer and Dragon Knight, though Dragoon has become the generally accepted term.
>>86828395Actually, Mr. Actually, Dragoons ended up consisting of a wide variety of roles and equipment, and had both infantry and cavalry. It's similar to how Grenadiers were originally just big guys who lobbed literal grenades, and eventually developed into some weird chimera of roles, ranging from assault leaders to elite guards.Both were named after weapons and originally were specialists, but it's kind of just the natural evolution of anything that's successful to slowly adopt more varied roles, like how KFC doesn't just do chicken anymore, but also make Dating Sims.
>>86828521Dragoons did not start as specialists like Grenadiers; they started out as mounted infantry companies. The reason "Dragoon" units have such a variety of roles currently is in order to maintain historical unit legacy and honors. The French 2nd Dragoons are not actually a dragoon company but an NBC unit.> like how KFC doesn't just do chicken anymore, but also make Dating Sims.That was a marketing stunt. Just like how the French 2nd Dragoons are not actually dragoons, KFC didn't actually make the game.
>>86825771>you're just copying mindless japs who picked the name just because it's related to "dragon" and didn't even bother to check what it actually means.Thank you for outing yourself as the retard here. And racist, but I repeat myself. In Japan they're Dragon Knights. Calling them Dragoons was a choice by the translation team because they were short on characters thanks to the limitations of old hardware.
>>86815315HYTNPDD?You can have a system that does have valid mounted combatants OR knights that emulate dragons OR super mobile spear warriors! Either with classes or not with classes!
>>86823685Please go back to /a/ or /v/ with your weebshit then.
>>86827163Uh, what? The only thing 40k defined is their own shit, and GW in fact is moving away from genericized names like Tau and Dark Elves to replace them with T'au or Drukhari. Considering 40k ripped off Star Wars (which ripped off Dune) and Dune directly, 40k doesn't have its own unique brand identity. Idiot.
>>86828168Gamblers are the worst class in every game they've ever been in.Also, Tifa having Slots makes no fucking sense. She works at a bar and doesn't have any money to gamble with.
>>86829287Corsairs in XI are one of the best classes in the game.
I've been enjoying Fabula Ultima recently, which is a fairly light-weight rpg for Final Fantasy games. I was pretty disappointed that the dragoon representation was one jump spell for a casting class. Maddening. They've got fucking Blue Mage rather than my jumpy brooder job. I'll be homebrewing one when I get a better understanding of balance, but I'll need things they can do other than jump and I'm a little stumped. Another job has access to a pet and multi-classing is encouraged so XI dragoon would already be covered. Any ideas what else might be good? What else does a dragoon do?
>>86817011Then call it a fighter acrobat???Thats like me calling my goblins "giant snakes" then scoffing every time someone tells me they are goblins not snakes or giants
>>86827163Yes??? 40k is a tabletop game? And so they can put there stuff in a tabletop game? Are you retarded?
>>86828845Still just a knight. I dont understand you, the things you want are fluff for a normal knight archetype, they arent a class.
dragoons are dumb
>>86829866Anon, they don't just jump. They JUMP. It's closer to having jump-pack infantry in the middle ages than feats of acrobatics. In most games wearing a different kind of hat consitutes a different class but you're honestly out here arguing a supernatural ability isn't. Why are you content to be this loudly ignorant?
>>86829884I did a Dragoon one class run and thought about this in nearly every indoor fight.
>>86830154Simple solution is to JUMP off of a wall.
>>86830062It'd then be satisfactory, perhaps, that they could be ruled as an Acrobatic focused Fighter, Warrior or Knight whose function in combat is disruption and advanced maneuvers using the spear as a pole or, mayhap, claws for climbing and attacking from above or at odd angles enemies cannot easily defend against? Incorporating skills into classes for new archetypes works in old and nuDnD as well as other systems.We ARE talking about actual TTRPGs in this thread, right?
>>86827326In FF 2, 3, and 5 they were a dragon riding class, not a dragon killing one.
>>86832796Dragoon has bounced around between being opposed to vs fighting alongside dragons.Hell, even in XIV, where the "anti-dragon" element is the strongest, the original version of of the Dragoon discipline were warriors that fought alongside dragons, rather than against them.
>>86818027>warriors with no weaknesses are fun!>also characters with gimmicky combat approaches won't inevitably leave players bored after 2 sessionsThis is your brain on 5e
Sorceress Catwife class, I would like that in every tabletop game
>>86815315>classes that need to be in more games None. More games need to stop using classes.
>>86832916You just think that because systems without them are easier to break by min/maxing.
>>86832938So I hit the bullseye.
>>86832916Frankly I think we could stand to cut a few. Let's make Elf a class of it's own again.
>>86832914The best part about Y'shtola isn't the catgirl bit, its the fact that shes a total professional. Everyone else gets distracted by personal drama, having crises of faith, sidequests and interwoven plots and shit. Meanwhile Y'shtola has her eyes on the fucking prize every step of the way. "Are you children going to keep having tea parties and dressup, or can we get on with saving the world?"Every time Y'shtola speaks in a scene, the plot advances.
>>86832914>>86833344this lil lady needs IMMEDIATE marriage correction, for did not the lord Jesus Christ decree that all strong noble knights must be wed to snarky girl mages?
>>86832938You sound like a faggy little spotlight hog that hates it when he has to complete a few adventures before he can break the game by abusing corner case ability interactions.
>>86833544Marriage wouldn't change anything, WoL and Y'shtola are already ride or die. Both of them are driven by unrelenting autism (for the WoL its to explore and save people. For Y'shtola its to learn EVERYTHING and uncover as much as hidden knowledge as possible, including interdimensional travel). WoL will inevitably bring very interesting puzzles and ancient secret shit to Y'shtola, and Y'shtola will always be heading into dangerous situations where the WoL will be needed as her sword and shield to get things done. Whether or not they ever share a bed is largely irrelevant, for as long as the two of them are alive they are headed in the same direction with reckless abandon.
>>86829884>masonry construction>flat ceiling
>>86815315Isn't that just a fighter with a mount? Am I misunderstanding something?
A Gambler class, but actually fun like Ecaflips are in Wakfu, where special attacks are a small game of chance, and your supporting abilities revolve around making wins and crits hit harder while mitigating the risks of losing. Some attacks even double as heals depending on the roll of the dice, and there is enough reliable self-healing to always risk yet another gamble. Basically an all-rounder that needs to take big risks to stand out from the other classes.Also, they've got smokin' hot catgirls, and we can always use more of those.
>>86832914>>86833344>>86833544>>86833700I swear I see the same fucking posters across every board.>>86833451Even the same Runarfag still desperately in denial and huffing copium in industrial quantities.
>>86817133Blue Mage only works out for two reasons in video games. First you can roam around out in the wilderness and grind for a while to build up a spell list. That is kind of weird in a tabletop game, and most groups are not really going to jump on board with simply wandering around looking to pick fights with totally random animals, especially since DnD fights take a long damn time to get through and normally clean out party skills for the session after maybe 2 of them. Good luck convincing a table and the GM, >Hey lets all wander around in the forest for a couple sessions just so I can maybe grab some spells! and for no other useful reason that helps anyone else or progresses the game!Second, FF Blue Mages work because monsters have a completely different spell list than all player classes. Most tabletop games just spread the same spell list among all characters and creatures. you want the spells, just make a damn wizard. Add fluff that he wears blue. This stuff is really easy to do in a video game where it's okay to waste hours of your day circling around for random encounters. But good luck ever getting a group on board with that nonsense. Either roll up a wizard or fuck off..
>people whine at op and even call it no games.>None I then actually point out mobility is always pretty damn stagnant in ttrpgs and poorly simulate a dragoon/dragon knight.The point of the dragoon is using jump both as a defensive and offensive tool. I can't think if any ttrpg that actually does plunge attacks at all.
>>86834151I always felt like anyone asking for or mentioning a gambler class was soft form of declaring themselves to be Nogames. When one realizes that in a typical tabletop game, ALL skills, attacks, crits, damage, and defenses are performed by a roll of the dice. Everything is already chance and luck based so some special dice rolling class makes zero sense. Just roll up a fighter and name then Gamblin' Joe or something. Fluff that they like playing cards and paint spades on all their clothes.
>>86838041Prior to 3e D&D, wandering around collecting spells was one of the main motivations of adventuring for magic-users. A magic-user/sorcerer that learned spells by encountering creatures with spell-like abilities and watching them use them would actually be a character setup.>>86838145The closest I can think of is 3e Pounce and Fly By builds.
>>86815567They didn’t fight while mounted.
>>86838198A gambler works better as a class that interacts with a game's meta elements like the actual dice.You could give a Gambler class abilities like: >On a successful hit you may roll to hit again. If the result is the same or better deal x2 damage else deal 1/2 damage.>Roll X amount of weapon damage dice. Deal various effects based on Yahtzee style dice combinations.>adjust the die result of enemy/ally rolls by +/- X
>>86838041>>86838205Ironically I think the closest D&D has had to a Blue Mage is Druids when they can wildshape into animals they've seen. Even that only really works out when the Druid starts with only some basic animals and has to luck into anything more exotic by adventuring, and even there it isn't anything too fancy since animals themselves rarely have any abilities that are too special.You could potentially design a class built around "shape-shifting" into a wider variety of monsters and temporarily using their statblocks, but it's probably be a mess in practice because monsters are designed so differently than players and even other monsters. Even if you do sort it out so that the Blue Mage can't just turn into a goblin wizard, there's lots of weird options out there. For 5e, being able to turn into a Pixie or a Unicorn can get you very high level magic that outstrips the CR of the monster. That puts the DM in a difficult position where he has to be even more considerate about which monsters he throws at the party.The reason it works better in Final Fantasy is because MP is a resource players and monsters both share, and thus can be used as a way to put a bottleneck on more powerful monster abilities. But for a tabletop game it'd need to be designed from the ground up to define the different costs of using one monster ability over another, which is hard to put in retroactively.It'd be far easier to simply make a Wizard and choose your spells based on what you've fought, explained as it inspiring your spell research.
>>86838442I was thinking maybe of you refluff the sorcerer needing to go out and retouch with their roots as part Fae, Dragon, or Devil and then through interaction with those things they learn a bit more about their abilities and learn spells from them. Or figure spells out by watching them. Then you might get a DnD styled blue mage.
>>86838536That's sort of what it boils down to, where it's a lot easier to do as roleplaying and flavor, where you pick abilities that reflect what you've encountered, rather than trying to mechanically translate the exact abilities of enemies into your capabilities.
>>86821958My God, this is a Borderlands intro.
>>86818063>Is that a Dragon? >I'M GONNA DRAGOOOON