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Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this play style.

>Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128 (embed) (embed)

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321

>Previous Thread:
>>86781539

>Thread Question:
Why the FUCK do you niggers wait until the thread gets pushed off page 10 to make a new one?
>>
Seems like a good amount of time to wait, if you ask me. It's not like we'll miss out on some important conversation if the thread gets archived before someone posts a new one.
>>
>>86808073
Same reason you did, and the same reason you left "embed embed" in the OP: laziness.

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Tag your post with [OC] if you want it archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a city setpiece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>9. Make a trap or dungeon hazard
>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
>>
Rolled 4 (1d10)

>>86808124
I'm not actually going to do anything.
>>
Rolled 2 (1d10)

>>86808124
I'm actually going to do this. I promise
>>
>>86808124
Fuck it, rolling
>>
>>86808124
>>86809037
>2. Make a monster
[OC]
Cave Reacher
AC: Leather
HD: 3
MV: 45(15)
SV: Fighter 3
ML: 4
AL: Neutral
XP: 120
NA: 1 (1)
>Description
A tall (~8ft.), skinny humanoid, with sticky skin the color of murky water and a featureless face. This predator lives in cave rivers/ponds/swamps, though may occasionally make its lair inside of a dungeon.
>Behavior
Cave Reachers spend the majority of their life motionless and fully submerged in water. When a target approaches its hiding spot, the monster will attempt to grapple and drown it. After partially consuming the victim it will implant an egg inside it. Upon hatching the juvenile Reacher will feed off the corpse, migrating to a new body of water after maturing.
>Combat
Cave Reacher will start the combat by attempting a grapple and dragging the target underneath the water. The grappled victim has -1d4 to checks to break the grapple and will take 2d4 damage at the start of each round.
Cave Reacher will always target the weakest enemy. Upon the victim dying/escaping the monster will retreat and hide under the water.
In water the Cave Reacher moves twice as fast as on land.
>Lair
The lair will have 1d10 corpses of creatures native to the area and/or unlucky adventurers submerged in water with their equipment/treasures on them.
>>
Rolled 8 (1d10)

>>86809640
Dammit I'm retarded, this time for real
>>
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Rolled 9 (1d10)

>>86808124
>>
>>86809838
This is one from the ol' megadungeon
>A red beam of light that horizontally bisects the room at approximately chest height. For every person that enters the room, a node forms and follows their position. With every person that enters the room, the nodes get smaller and smaller—for one person the node is the size of a wagon wheel, for 10 people they would be the size of a fist. The nodes block passage across the beam; they expand as their respective individual gets closer and release a burning shock on contact, dealing damage to anyone trying to traverse the red beam and forcing them back, even if they are short or try to crawl over or beneath the beam. The nodes deal 1d6 damage if there are three or fewer people in the room, 1d4 if there are five or fewer, 1d2 if there are 7 or fewer, and 1 if there are 8+. The beam can be bypassed if at least eight people attempt to cross at the same time.
>>
>>86808073
I've been trying to create a magic item for several weeks now but haven't come up with anything original, does anyone have brainstorming tips?
Is my brain fried, or am I just lazy?
>>
>>86810061
>Is my brain fried, or am I just lazy?
There are 1000+ tools and generators to make magic items available online, plus we have plenty of examples for free in books, modules and blogs that can serve as both guidelines and inspiration. You're probably both.

You can start with a theme (ice, the ocean, the sun, etc.) and go from there
OR start with a simple dungeon/wilderness problem (darkness, locked doors, getting lost, poor weather) and go from there
OR start with a magic-seeming item (a mummified hand, an insect trapped in amber, an ancient coin) and go from there
>>
>>86810061
an easy way to make a magic item is to take something ordinary and make it extraordinary.

another way is to take something highly technical, and bring it down to be magical. If you add a quirk to it, or a problem, it makes the device seem more interesting.

Example: I'm thinking of a printer. Printers print paper, and the most common thing on paper in fantasy games are either maps, or scrolls. A quirk to it could be that it prints a random scroll daily. An even better quirk could be that it's a random scroll that is unidentifiable, and can only be seen when using the scroll to cast something. So, let's just make that into an item.

Scroll of Randomness

This magic item generates magical symbols and glyphs at dawn. These glyphs correspond to a random spell. Once cast, the glyphs disappear from the scroll.

You can add other downsides to it, but that's usually what I do for making magic items.
>>
>>86810153
>>86810193
NTA but these are helpful procedures, thanks
>>
>>86810153
I'm aware of random generators and such but when I look at a list of things that already exist I find it hard to take my mind away from the things that I've just looked at.
Those seem like good suggestions though, I probably tend to self censor too much if I start to feel what I'm making is trite.
>>86810193
Thanks.
That random scroll idea is brilliant
>>
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>>86808124
>>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
I made this a few months ago but I wouldn't mind more feedback on it.
>>
>>86810383
With the exception of the plate restriction you have a superior fighter for the same XP cost. Unless you have house rules improving the fighter the skald is better.

Here’s the changes I’d make:
Requirements STR and CHA 9
Prime Req CHA
Weapons Any
Armor no plate or shield

Still not sure that warrants the equal XP cost but the reduced AC potential would be significant at higher levels.
>>
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>>86808073
>(embed) (embed)
>Why the FUCK do you niggers...
>>
>>86804514
Now that’s a good idea
Next week when the session is on I’ll go buy some in town

With how the session went we managed to escape the catacombs with our lives and two full sacks of mixed silver and gold treasure
Dismemberment isn’t a permanent solution but our talkative DM spilled the beans that they regen approximately one hit point per dungeon turn with some additional compilations
Because of our cleric in the group we know that they are only one or two hit dice
>>
>>86810670
>XP cost
Differing XP tables are only a balancing measure when you get into dealing with the likes of elves and other multi-classes.
On their own, their purpose isn't to help balance strong and weak classes, it's to stagger level-ups and encourage players to roll up extra PCs while their existing one is training.
>>
>>86810790
>it's to stagger level-ups and encourage players to roll up extra PCs while their existing one is training.
First time I'm hearing this. Where did you get this information?
>>
>>86810906
>muh ass
>>
>>86810906
I made it the fuck up!
>>
>>86810906
Years and years of play. Or you could believe what Chucklefuck A >>86810972 and Chuckelfuck B >>86810992 are saying. No skin off my nose if you learned play D&D wrong, it just makes my game look higher quality in comparison.
>>
>>86811087
appeal to authority
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>>86811449
You think so? I’d be more inclined to say anecdotal.
>>
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>>86810992
Armstrong
A brute of a humanoid that embeds himself within the power structures of prominent kingdoms and organizations, driving them to conflict and brutality. Believed by some to be the cause of the last civilisational collapse.
AC 7, HD 20+20*** (110), Att 2x Fists (3d8) OR Boulder (3d6),
THACO 6, MV 150'(50'), SV (as lv.15 Fighter), ML N/A,
AL Chaotic, XP 4300, NA 1, TT Custom
Boulder throwing: Up to 200'
Nanomachines: Reduce all damage caused by the first attack that hits Armstrong to zero every round. If the attack is a critical hit committed by a Vorpal sword or similar effect this also prevents the decapitation effect.
Son: If allowed to speak for longer then 1 turn, anyone hears his speech must save versus spells or be charmed: will move toward, defend, cooperate with, and will not attack Armstrong. Is unable to cast spells or use magi items. A character who saves is unaffected for the rest of the encounter. Killing Armstrong does not break the charm.
>>
>>86811598
>anyone OF CHAOTIC ALIGNMENT who hears his speech
Fixed. ffs.
>>
>>86810193
This is some deck of many things tier quirky bulshit item.
>>
>>86810700
Then you do it next time, nigger
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>>86808104
Because YOU didn’t get off your fat ass to do it
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>>86811087
>chuckelfuck
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>>86810790
>tfw you thought all these years MUs leveled slower because they get catastrophically powerful at higher levels but it's actually just to stagger level-ups
>>
>>86812182
Now that you have seen the truth you too can play high quality D&D.
>>
>>86810790
While the impact of the XP differences are often exaggerated, thieves are a full level ahead of magic-users (a bit more early on), and this amounts to more than staggering. It's not staggering at all once they hit 5th/6th level, because they're leveling up on the exact same XP total, except the thief's one level higher. And while you did say that demihumans are the exceptions, if staggering was, in general, a concern, why would they set halfling XP to equal a fighter and elf XP to equal a fighter one level higher?
>>
I know that this is an incredibly stupid question, but I honestly spent last night at work looking and could not find a ready answer either on the internet or anywhere in the scenario pack.

In T1 Village of Hommlett, there are several hills denoted with elevation lines, such as the hill with Burne and Rufus's tower on it. How tall is each "level" of elevation supposed to be? My normal assumption would be 10 ft elevation per elevation line to match 10 ft grid squares, but the grid squares in this map are actually 20 ft.

>The PCs have spent a lot of money to buy the land rights to the hilltop north of the stream and build an (unfortified) estate upon it, and they want to make sure that their building ends up being shorter than Rufus's tower for extremely petty diplomacy reasons.
>>
>>86812300
I've been playing high quality D&D for years and years now, thankyouverymuch
>>
>>86812314
Based response
>>
>>86812621
Are you sure? Have your levels been staggered enough to encourage rolling up extra PCs? That is the core principle of high quality D&D.
>>
>>86812614
That's a good question...have you tried looking at revised editions of the module to see if the revisors answered the question?
>>
Are there any other OSR (meaning compatible with BX) superhero games out there besides Guardians and Sentinels of Echo City? A few years back there was this trend of adapting different genres to old school dnd, im sure there are more out there. I need raw materials to make a frankengame.
>>
>>86812614
I took a quick look at Monte Cook's Return to ToEE, but I didn't see anything that would clarify.

I would say they are 10' elevations. More just seems too steep to me, and I don't think the 20' squares mean the elevation lines have to be 20' too.
>>
>>86812789
I checked a conversion to 5e by Brian Rideout (attached), and looked through Monte Cooks RtToEE, but haven't found anything. I know that Goodman games flat out made a 5e version of the scenario, but as far as I'm aware there isn't a PDF for it.

>>86812908
>I would say they are 10' elevations
It would make sense. Probably the most I could see would be 15 ft per elevation line, but I found it odd that there wasn't any sort of elevation key anywhere which I could find, and wondered if anyone else would run the scenario had found something I had missed.
>>
>>86812895
Godbound...?
>>
>>86813152
I'm familiar enough with Godbound that I could probably use it to model something like an optic blast, but I'm looking for superpower lists or build a superpower systems to save myself some work. Might have to use Godbound in some way anyway since the Effort system is simple and it works.
>>
Godbound 2e when
>>
>>86810061
I like to pick 1-2 random spells from 3.5 (because it has a lot of spells) and use those to make a magic item.
Another option is to grab 1-2 MtG cards.

That's not truly original, but your players won't be able to tell.

>>86813211
Given what KC has been doing with his other 2e versions, are you really sure you want that?
>>
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>conversation with player of mine about OSR
>explaining the concept of megadungeons, how they can be multi-biome/faction
>"what if the world itself was the massive underworld though?"
>sudden nostalgia strike
...I have no idea why I never based any tabletop on this before, but I intend to fix that mistake.
>>
>>86813223
>Given what KC has been doing with his other 2e versions
NTA but what has he been doing? I haven't read any of his 2es but I love Scarlet Heroes and WWN
>>
>>86813223
>Given what KC has been doing with his other 2e versions
His latest version of Stars Without Number is miles better than the first one.
>>
>>86813267
He is an apostate now :(
2e versions are no longer OSR. SWN, WWN, WoG, all use his weird homebrew system now.

I mean, I guess it's okay aside from not being OSR, but it's not something I'd want to play over most other games.

>>86813295
Who pays you to come here and tell lies?
>>
>>86813295
>ascending AC
>martial arts gone

>miles better
>>
>>86813305
SWN has martial arts? How outdated is my book, holy shit?
>>
>>86813350
It's in an SWN 1e supplement. Mandate Archive Martial Arts I think.
>>
>>86813378
Oh, it's a free supplement
I thought they'd released an updated core book or something
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>>86813301
Listen, WWN includes material of more value to an OSR game than 90% of all official, bona fide, true trvd OSR products. I'll give that one a pass.
Crawford may not be making explicitly OSR game material anymore but he's one of the vanishingly few actually talented indie designers out there today and his body of work is by far a net positive for the OSR, regardless of how tangential is current material might be. If he were to stop making stuff all together he would still deserve to go down as one of the greats.
yes I am simping for him but some things are worth simping for.
>>
>>86813437
Really? I thought WWN was a complete waste of money. WoG had some neat stuff in it and a lot of research on Anglo-Saxon England, but about the only thing I remember liking in WWN was the pseudo-Christianity thing. I don't deny he has a lot of good ideas but I'm fairly unimpressed by their execution, overall, even before he started using his own system. Like AER was patently useless for example.
>>
>>86813481
I don't know, maybe I'm just easily impressed, but the (exhaustive) tools for campaign generation and prep were worth the price alone. I've read a lot of material that was very much in a similar vein, from the Classic Dungeon Designer’s Netbooks to the Oldskull stuff even going so far back as what Judge's Guild came out with and WWN stands head and shoulders above all of them—from a campaign usability perspective. We've all seen countless tools for making a fantasy civilizations and settlements and adventure locales or what have you but Crawford is the only one who can cut to the heart of what those things are really for and what purpose or roll they ought to play in a regular campaign, and give you the easiest, path-of-least-resistance way to set them up in your campaign so you have all the necessary bits and a couple of unique interesting qualities without having to sift through a bunch of bullshit generation options and low-effort random tables.

I guess he's like the Jordan of campaign tools. I noticed this with Scarlet Heroes too, which is the first KC product I ever read. He's not reinventing the wheel when it comes to campaign prep materials but he's so god damn good at it that he makes the other guys (who also aren't bad!) look like amateurs.

Caveat here is that I think the setting of WWN is whatever (as I do with most of his products) and I didn't read the game mechanics too closely. I'm personally drawn to him because I love rolling on tables to create stuff for my game and what can I say, he's got the best tables.
>>
>>86813556
based kc table appreciator
>>
>>86808124
>>9. Make a trap or dungeon hazard
Wall Imps. Every time a strange, small colony of Imps hear somebody coming down the hall they quickly come running out of tiny holes in the walls and lay down a wet, cement like compound which causes to PC's to get stuck in it as if it were mud, then on ten feet down they apply a temporary lacquer to the stone work which makes it have the properties of ice. If these imps are caught in the act they can be bribed with candy to do it to your enemies that come through the hall at a later point.
>>
the number of feet per elevation line is way less important than the fact that there is a hill. In game, the actual number of feet will not come up. If it does I’ll buy you a beer.
>>
>>86813716
>In game, the actual number of feet will not come up. If it does I’ll buy you a beer.
Didn't actually read what that anon wrote, did you?

His PCs are trying to make a building on the larger hill, but need it to be less tall overall than the castle tower on the southern, smaller hill. That's a reasonable thing, since the wizard who owns the tower is fundamentally the local lord. The south tower is said to stand 40' tall in the scenario. It's on a hill of indeterminate height. How high can the PCs build their estate building, *also* on a hill of indeterminate height (which is 1/3rd taller than the local lords hill) while still ensuring that it doesn't stand taller than the local lords tower?

In the situation that anon is describing, the elevation lines absolutely matter. Maybe not for combat purposes, but knowing whether you can build a 1, 2, or 3 storey building is pretty important to know when you're paying out a budget for the project, right? Also of importance: not pissing off the local lord by whose sufferance you're allowed to build there in the first place.

>>86812614
A vote for 15' here, anon. A 15' rise over a linear distance of 20' is still steep enough to be a good obstacle for defensive purposes, but a 10' rise really isn't (roughly a 22 degree slope). If that's all the steeper one elevation mark was, the lords castle wouldn't be built where it is.
>>
>>86813301
Making your own weird homebrew system is actually the most OSR thing you can do
>>
>>86813437
I feel like WWN tried to be too much all at once, though I absolutely adore the game. Feels like having tools to generate a campaign world plus a canon world ended up forcing more useful stuff out of the book.
Still my OSR game of choice. Just implement gold for XP and multiply XP requirements by 1000. The rest of the procedures are all there, backed up by solid referee advice.
>>
>>86813886
How very NuSR of you to say that
>>
>>86813556
I tried rolling on the WWN tables for a society and got completely nonsensical results. I do like the class build stuff in it, but it seems so overwrought and complex as a system that I can't see myself ever running it compared to B/X or OD&D. At most, his books seem to be things to pirate and occasionally pull one small thing from them.
>>
>>86813305
>ascending AC bad!
Cry harder ya dildo
It’s an additive system. Obscuring the function behind thaco and matrixes is pure hipsterism. AC 1 literally refers to the first class armor for battleships. You got any battleships in your dungeon?
Embracing innovations does not mean dismissing the principles of traditions.
Do you still wash your clothes in ashes and lye?
>>
>>86814096
>he doesn't saponify his own soap
ngmi
>>
>>86814133
My woman makes all our soaps
>>
>>86812614
In this case, I would rule in favor of the characters.

Reason being - even if the players and DM IRL don't know the answer, the characters in-game definitely had an expectation when they purchased the land (assuming they have seen it, which I expect they have?)

As such, even if they don't know to the exact foot how tall things are, they must have had an idea how many stories of building they were getting into here.
>>
Kevin Crawford will always get a pass from me since he's a based Tékumel enjoyer. Shame that the Tékumel Foundation didn't want to pay him to make this, but it's already half-complete anyways. Just need to finish the bestiary.
>>
>>86814290
His WIPs are great to look at
>>
>>86812908
>Monte Cook's Return to ToEE
What a garbage module. I got an advance copy back when I was a 3e shill and I tried to run it three times with three different groups. It’s just as boring as the original except with more stats and a shittier third act.
Mentzer ruined the reissue with his rooms full of monsters autism and Cook is just Mentzer with a modern gloss.
T1 rules
>>
If dwarves live underground then why dont they have the skin tone smeagol and falmer?
>>
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>>86814547
dwarves are cute
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>>86814547
Darkness gives dwarves a healthy and ruddy tan complexion while exposure to the sun causes them to become deathly pale.
>>
>>86814584
>Living in caves has the largely overlooked side effect of getting rid of water being really fucking difficult and, due to basically living in mud for their entire lives, the mud has seeped into their skin in a manner similar to tattoos.
>>
>>86814290
No one will touch Tekumel at this point since it came out that the creator was an unironic Third Reich-loving Nazi apologist.
>>
A lich has a magic crown, amulet and ring that are its most prized possessions. What do they do?
>>
>>86814818
Yeah, anyway, back here in this reality no company is ever going to attach their brand to that.
>>
>>86814290
I read somewhere that TSR published a Tekumel setting back in 1975, bu I haven't found it yet
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>>86814837
They are magic items representing his mastery over body, mind and soul he had to achieve for his ascension, corrupted terribly by his own dark powers
>crown lets him read minds, as well as resist any charm
>amulet can control undead (for players boosts turn undead to command)
>ring used to grant regeneration and full body control, but now its powers are harnassed to give debilitating mutations to lichs enemies

Good enough? I am actually porting magic of Self from Might and Magic series of video games over since I hate divine casters.
>>
I hate Urban games so much bros.
>>
>>86810061
Seriously just read about magic items from mythology, you'll get tons of ideas
>>
>>86813859
lmao not reading that. It doesn’t matter,guaranteed.
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>>86814926
Why?
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>>86814922
The crown letting him read minds is cool. Resisting charm might be less useful since a lich is already immune to that. Although I could say that it's something he wore before he became one.
The amulet can contain a sealed and enslaved devil, since I found out recently they can cast Animate Dead at will (what the fuck?). That works pretty well too
From the description of the ring, I'm not sure how it works. Does he just point it at someone and they get cursed with mutations?

Thanks for the input. I like them, but so far I feel they don't really make the lich stand out that much; they mostly give it abilities that I already associate with a lich. Does that make sense?
>>
>>86814813
>If Plato was handsome and stalwart, must I set myself to becoming handsome and stalwart - as if this was necessary to philosophy, because a certain person happened to be at once handsome and a philosopher? Will you not perceive and distinguish what are the things that make men philosophers, and what belong to them on other accounts?
-Epictetus

But idk if greek philosophy will convince a corpo to associate with nazis tho.
>>
>>86814887
Empire of the Petal Throne, 1975. Hit the share thread.
>>
>>86814953
>From the description of the ring, I'm not sure how it works. Does he just point it at someone and they get cursed with mutations?
Yeah.
>Thanks for the input. I like them, but so far I feel they don't really make the lich stand out that much; they mostly give it abilities that I already associate with a lich. Does that make sense?
Yeah I guess so.
>>
>>86814887
Empire of the Petal Throne - 1974, self published, 1975 TSR.
It was one of the first things TSR put out, interestingly: allegedly, Gary was mad at first because it innovated and deviated off of D&D for profit. But then they brought it into the fold.
>>
>>86814939
They always feel less defined and what things the players can do is more floaty. Logically this does follow since there are manifestly more resources in an Urban Area then a Rural one but it just leads to more DM fiat then I like.
>>
>>86808124
R
>>
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>>86779543
Late response, but it seems weird to me for these two weapons to be mechanically identical (other than the first being less encumbering, less expensive, and potentially capable of being thrown). Like, if we're dueling and you've got the dagger while I've got the arming sword, I'm feeling pretty good about my chances of coming out on top.
>>
>>86815308
This is where weapon adjustments by armor class came from. Gary stopped using Chainmail for the ACS, players stopped using the obviously inferior weapons. A two hander in Chainmail hits on a 5 or 6 on 2d6 and tends to strike first - compare that to Holmes, where a 2 hander always strikes last, precludes the use of a shield, and does the exact same damage as a dagger, which weighs a fraction of the weight.

This came up *immediately* in the history of D&D - and you can tell because Greyhawk, the first supplement, addressed the problem with both variable weapon damage and to hit adjustments by armor class.
>>
>>86814938
>lmao not reading that. It doesn’t matter,guaranteed.
You don't have to be here, >>>/b/ is right over there.
>>
Is B2 the best long-form module for introducing 5Elets to the old school gameplay style?
>>
>>86815366
I mean, as long as the bigger weapon has some advantage (although here we are talking about two different one-handed weapons), though I think the individual weapon adjustments for AC are all kinds of clunky.
>>
>>86813886
While in a sense true, the idea is that it's supposed to stay compatible, not be an entirely different game. If you make an entirely different game, it's not OSR anymore.
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>>86813244
...I'm getting quite tired of every day seeing something on /tg/ that makes me feel really old.
...I know it's baffling to say this on /osrg/ but still.
...I'm not old, I'm 39...
>>
>>86815679
personal solution:
>big fuck off weapons roll 2d6, keep highest
>regular weapons roll d6
>small weapons (club, dagger) roll 2d6, keep lowest
>>
>>86815845
Do you have gray hair yet?
Are people who just meet you calling you "sir"?
Welcome to the club! Here's some advil!
>>
>>86815866
>2d6, keep lowest
Oof, this always feels bad. Once you've decided weapons are allowed to deal other damage than exactly 1d6, I'd just use d4's instead.
>>
>>86813244
I definitely have one world like that, although I haven't gotten a chance to run it yet.
>>
>>86814922
>>86814953
>Doesn't stand out enough
Add
>The Crown has its own intelligence, alignment and aims, trying to gain control at times but is vulnerable to charm.
>The amulet gives undead control boosting but the boosted undead begin regaining memories from their lives. Not will to resist but scattered bits and pieces.
>Ring of mutation is given to the lich's mortal champion/apprentice/renfield, grants regeneration but also mutations. Can't remove it without cutting off the finger.
>>
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>>86815460
Its one of the more classically set up vanilla modules. Not vanilla bad, just what it is. B4 is a good alternative.
B1 is strangely overlooked.
There's a bunch of good modules for introducing people to osr though.
>>
>>86815308
I'm agree, this doesn't account for real differences in how weapons work. But, I don't want to account for real differences. (You end up in a world where pike-formations of henchmen/PCs is the best way to deal with almost anything)

Maybe you wanna play like that though.

On the topic of daggers specifically however, I tentatively hold that a dagger might not even be considered a fighting weapon other than as a sidearm or offhand. It is a tool with deadly potential, like many other tools. What I'm trying to say is that using a dagger as a main weapon should not be a valid option as a fighter. But I wouldn't bring this up at the table most of the time, I'd just let my rogue-ish fighter dual wield daggers to full potential just like someone using real swords. Or let someone single-wielding a dagger fight on the same terms as the one using a single sword, it's arguably the most glaring weakness of the system but I tolerate it.
>>
What’s your favorite inventory / encumbrance system?
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>>86817019
The DM may ask you list your inventory at any time. If anyone laughs, you're over encumbered
More seriously, I like LOTFP's system a whole lot. My group isn't one for bean-counting things such as chalk or matches and I like how it forces heavily armored characters to commit to fighting
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>>86817019
I like slot-based. I've been using half-stone slots, where some items take up less than or more than a slot, but it's getting to the point where it's too complicated to do that so I might switch to pure slots. (with the exception of coins and gems)
>>
>>86815124
In my experience urban adventures only work well when the party is really self-motivated and driven to pursuing their own ends or goals.
More conventional dungeon/wilderness adventures have sort of their own inertia that can carry players along, but urban-focused campaigns require a good deal of buy-in that isn't right for every table.
>>
>>86817019
I was so afraid of coin encumbrance that I tried a bunch of different methods (stones, slots, bizarre homebrew size measurements, etc.)
But eventually I realized that B/X encumbrance really isn't that difficult once you understand that the only variable that changes over the course of an adventure is the amount of treasure carried. Weapons and armor occasionally change during an adventure, but rarely enough that it's not a hard consideration. And everything else just weighs 80 cn, give or take some weight depending on what's carried.
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>>86814837
The crown can function as an external hard-drive brain—it can store up to 4 spell-levels worth of spells, as well as record sense-experience and play it back, fast forward, rewind, zoom in, etc. wearing the crown also halves the time requirement for spell research.
For every hour of sense-experience recorded by the crown, there is a cumulative 1% chance the information overloads the wearer's brain, causing them to become permanently stupefied as per the feeblemind spell. Deleting information recorded by the crown can be done instantaneously, but has a 1-in-10 chance of also removing some of the wearer's original memories.

The amulet contains a tiny reality marble within which exists a darkness so complete that light is merely its absence. Anyone who looks upon it must save vs. spells or have their consciousness sucked into the harrowing void, becoming numb and catatonic for 1d4 hours. Avoiding looking at the amulet imparts a -3 penalty to hit and grants the wearer +1 on attacks against them.

The ring causes whatever finger that wears it to exist in all dimensions simultaneously. Once per hour, the wearer can use its power to do one of the following:
Tear through reality and open a dimensional door (as per the spell)
Cast finger of death (spell must already be memorized) on a target, thus obliterating them in every dimension and erasing them from the multiversal continuity
Open a flickering portal to the ethereal plane (works like the blink spell)
Pull forth a creature from the astral dimension or the lower planes.
There is a 2% chance every time the ring is used that the wearer will be shunted into the empty space between realities, leaving behind nothing but the ghostly imprint of their finger.
>>
I've always believed that monks were an idiosyncratic inclusion in D&D meant to appeal to '70s proto-weebs and kung fu movie fans but recently I had the thought that they were potentially designed in part to be a counterpoint to paladins.
With the inclusion of paladins in Greyhawk, fighters who rolled good stats got the option to be a definitively more cleric-y type of fighter. It makes sense then that the introduction of monks in Blackmoor was partially done to give clerics with good stats a definitively more fighter-y option.
Monks may still be thematically misguided, but if you're using OD&D-style bonus classes the intention behind their inclusion may make more sense if you think about them as the cleric's response to the paladin.
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This is my homebrew ranger class. I wanted to make an overland travel expert like the thief is a dungeon exploration expert. I always felt unsatisfied with rangers - this is my attempt at a more focused, grounded approach to the class. Skills based on Carcass Crawler Issue #1 d6 thief skills.
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I also ruined the druid.
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Is OSR trove down?
>>86819877
> They can wear any armor, but their skills suffer -1 penalties for each size of armor worn
>ranger skills have 1/6 chance of working
So basically if you wear armor of any size you cannot track. Poor wording.

I also thought that getting favoured enemy every two levels but honestly it should be fine with semi-fighter progression.
>>86819962
Thats not very druidy.
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>>86820009
Like thieves, rangers begin with 4 points to raise their skill chances with, and they gain 2 more points every level.
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>>86820041
I dont actually play DCC, I am ACKS guy. Gomen.
Please forgive me senpai.
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>>86820009
>Is OSR trove down?
If you mean the one on treasure island I was just up in it a few minutes ago.
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>>86820227
Like me and your mom's puss, gottem
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>>86820276
Go home dad, you're drunk and have a hex crawl to prepare.
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>>86819877
This ain't bad!
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>>86811777
Cope harder
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>>86820777
>>
Any OSR youtube channels that aren't massive faggots?
>>
I’m gonna run Maze of the Blue Medusa using LOTFP in a week, this’ll be my first ttrpg experience and first time refereeing. I chose maze because it’s very thorough and fits the kind of environment/gameplay my players are interested in. Any tips for running it? I think I’ll start them players at level 2, and have them bring in a level 1 “retainer/apprentice” to the first room as a backup character in case they spring the first trap, get stuck in, and then die in the maze before the portal opens again. I’m also going to have treasure dragged back to the initial room count as secured for xp purposes. How should I handle rests in the maze? This is probably something I missed on my initial read through. Should they have to walk back to the entrance?
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>>86821329
I've been enjoying Bandit's Keep for the past couple of days now. Lots of good tips and tricks from the old school mindset.

The Dungeon Minister is a recap channel about a BECMI game the host runs for his kids and is pure wholesome content. Thankfully, the kids are never part of the video, but you can tell he's really enjoying himself.

Finally, Mage's Musings has a mix of recaps of two games he's running (one OSE and the other AD&D) as well as occasional informative videos on basic things like character creation. It's good background noise if you don't like his puppet schtick.
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>>86821415
>I’m gonna run Maze of the Blue Medusa
>LOTFP
>this’ll be my first ttrpg experience and first time refereeing
>I’ll start them players at level 2
Extremely cringe trainwreckpost
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>>86821484
what do you recommend? I was gonna do either DCO or Maze, but DCO seemed harder to referee. I saw someone recommend tomb robbers of the crystal frontier as a first go, which also looked nice. LotFP I chose because I like the specialist a lot.
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>>86821538
B1 or B2 , Moldvay D&D Basic Set, pregens (especially from B4)
You're doing the equivalent of jumping into neo-noir deconstruction films without laying the foundation by watching noir classes
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>>86821538
Not that guy but Maze is generally regarded as a shitshow and not fun. There's a lot of reviews you can google of it being bad.
Generally starting with a megadungeon is tricky unless everyone is already pretty on board with the idea, ymmv but its a fairly specific setup. Likely better to work with an intro module, sounds like you already found one you liked.
Long term, pull the parts of maze you like and think will be interesting and break it into parts or other things.
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>>86821558
The players are people who like weird fiction way more than fantasy, to give an idea of why I wanted the deconstructionist stuff more. But it does make sense, I’ll start them with B1/B2 and have the painting be a treasure they steal at some point that they can choose to look into. What downsides does LotFP have? I just like the magic-user’s spell list and the specialist class instead of the thief, but I also looked at black hack briefly.
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>>86821538
Tomb of the Serpent Kings is good for your first ttrpg experience if playing LotFP. You can use the same system for the modules >>86821558 mentioned as well with no issue at all.
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>>86821630
B1 or B4 do have a good amount of weird in them when you look. You could also add in flavour with the blanks for B1,
Crystal Frontier is also not a bad choice.
LotFP has an unusual approach to fighters in terms of advancement that is a bit more geared for horror/lower powered characters. Its not a deal breaker, but will play out differently over time.
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>>86821647
>Tomb of the Serpent Kings is good for your first ttrpg experience if you're retarded and think it should be like playing mario
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>>86821603
Makes sense. Thanks, I appreciate the tips from both of you. I’ll run an intro module and see what the players like/dislike before I drop something potentially annoying on them.
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>>86821677
You post has nothing to do with reality. Embarrassing.
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>>86821329
I will not shill my own - but from those that I enjoy watching, Red Dice Diaries is pretty good, both podcast videos and actual plays; Tim Kask's Curmudgeon in the Cellar, I enjoy; and Lord Gosumba - both for the actual plays with live minis, but also for the interviews with industry figures.
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>>86821715
>nou
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>>86821647
ToSK is explicitly not for new OSR DMs, but rather for new players. IIRC Skerples says this right in the introduction
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>>86819877
I like it fine. I think you accomplished what you set out to do—although I think the armor restriction thing is a bit too finicky, especially when some of the skills have nothing to do with mobility or encumbrance (I don't see how wearing plate makes it harder to follow tracks or know lore). I'd say just restrict them to chain and leather and leave it at that.
>>86819962
This one is sort of less to my tastes. It kind of just seems like a palette-swapped ranger with a shapeshifting ability. I like how you adapt certain legacy druid features like the languages and charm resist but without spell casting I'm not sure there's enough to the druid to justify its inclusion alongside the ranger.
If you don't want to make a whole druid spell list, you might want to do something similar to the OSE mage and acolyte(?) classes, where in place of spells they get x-in-6 abilities similar to thieves. Maybe the druid can have something like control plants, charm animals, and neutralize poison
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>>86822123
Hey anon thanks for the feedback! Very helpful, I think I agree about the ranger's armor restrictions. The druid is still a spellcaster, refer to OSE spell list or whatever - I just didn't want to reformat parts I have no problems with.
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>>86819169
>I've always believed that monks were an idiosyncratic inclusion in D&D meant to appeal to '70s proto-weebs and kung fu movie fans
I thought this as confirmed to be true
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>>86821538
Seconding Tomb of the Serpent Kings. System-wise LotFP with S&W saves if you like LotFP because the saves are not obvious. It's not necessarily designed for new referees but it's at least not too bad of an option, and it's good for new players.
>>
>>86822123
>>86822255
On the other hand, if I arbitrarily restrict the ranger to certain armor types, that seems less justifiable fictionally versus setting out some rules why a ranger might avoid heavier armor. Also, I had thieves and magic users able to use any armor but with similar penalties, so they all parallel each other. But you might be right, it's all too fiddly.
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>>86814813
Based beyond belief
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>>86814813
well I will now!
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I'm looking for pictures of elf rangers (or fighter/thieves, anything like that)
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>>86814813
I've yet to see sufficient evidence for this accusation. People still buy clothes from BOSS and praise Von Braun ffs, why should I condemn a respected academic over hearsay and conjecture?
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>>86814813
Awesome.

I'm going to buy it if I can, and if not, use it in my next campaign.
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>>86814813
>I don't read Grognardia
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>>86822799
It’s not really hearsay and conjecture, he straight up admitted to it, referring to it as his “nazi book” at one point. (He was also on the board of directors for a stormfag-tier history journal). Regardless, like lovecraft, he’s dead, so it shouldn’t really matter to normal people what he thought or wrote. CoC still gets content written for it, obviously.
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>>86822757
Not really the right thread but I can post a few elves.
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I'll make sure to false flag some drama about my political affiliations if I ever publish content for sale wew
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>>86822757
>>
>>86822799
>over hearsay and conjecture?
The back of the book literally calls nazis the good guys
https://deltapress.com/serpents-walk-p-2041.html
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>>86822757
Here's another.
TIL that posting duplicate replies has a slower timedown.
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>>86822757

>>86822944
What's that book got to do with M.A.R. Barker?
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>>86822757
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>>86822839
The pushback about it still being an issue now, despite him being dead, basically seems to be that the Tekumel Foundation knew for like a decade while he was alive, and kept it hidden.
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>>86822757
Celegorm, called Celegorm the Fair, was the third son of Fëanor and Nerdanel.
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>>86822961
Barker wrote it under a pseudonym.

>>86822978
I don't think there's any evidence for that
>>
Is Five Torches Deep considered a topic for this thread or for the 5E one?
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>>86823030
Neither honestly, but talking here may be slightly more productive
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>>86822757

>>86823030
It's not OSR, so most of us probably don't know that much about it. But then I suppose neither do people who play 5e because 5e gives you brain damage.
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>>86823007
A dude (I forget who) claimed that he'd told them years ago, and they did nothing.
Granted, same dude *also* said nothing all that time, so who the hell knows?
I'll admit, I've never read the man's works, but from everything I've ever heard about Tekumel, it feels like he compartmentalized his Nazi leanings pretty hard. (Or he just started drifting that way late enough in life that his creation already had a life of its own, I dunno.)
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>>86822922
None of the people posting le based are actually going to buy it (nor do they even play games)
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>>86823075
People are weird, especially professors of language who convert to Islam because it’s the “most logical religion.” Academics are just kinda like that sometimes, the Turner Diaries guy was a physicist and a professor
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>>86823030
Mulattos belong nowhere
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>>86823088
Maybe we should. How long have they lived in your head rent free?
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>>86822974
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>>86822799
There's only a single book, which has an Indian protagonist even, and that someone with his birth name was part of a holocaust denial club, well after he changed his name. It's amazing how little passes for "concrete" these days.
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>>86822757

>>86823168
Helps if you don't think of them as "African-American Elves".
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>>86822757
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>>86822757
Go make an elf thread about it.
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>>86823256
Be sure to ask "wat do"
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>>86822919
>>86822933
>>86822961
>>86822974
>>86822998
>>86823066
>>86823214
>>86823240
you dingdongs, I meant osr art
>>
>>86817019
I like slot based because its the fastest for my players to deal with. I havr taken to giving them a large index card to write their gear on, first three items not worn or in hand are easy to get at, everything else takes a round to get out.
Stones or coins or weight is fine with me but takes some of them forever so we settled on this.
>>
>>86822839
It's disingenuous to compare Barker to Lovecraft since the latter was just xenophobic and edgy but never genocidal or anything. There's a difference between going full Heil Hitler and saying (in the context of early 20th century america) "you know how we all hate black people me too they're scary and nautical"
>>
>>86817019
I use coin based encumbrance with a few house rules.
>add up armor and weapon coin weight + 80 coin weight for misc gear + any additional weight penalties
The abstract 80 coin weight for misc gear includes;
>a backpack or sack
>1 water skin
>1 pack of rations
>3 additional pieces of gear
>anything beyond this and the PC takes additional coin weight penalties at the DMs discretion
It works pretty well. Although I need to do a DM audit. I know one of the PCs is carrying more than he should and needs to take an additional weight penalty.
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>>86809982
What does the beam do?
>causes cancer
>negligible problem for humans in ye olde world
>big problem for elves tho
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>>86824168
Silly anon, dont you know that elves cant get cancer? Tumors are put inside humans by faeries over percieved slights.
>>
Rolled 5 (1d10)

>>86808124
lets see.
>>
>>86824044
Lovecraft also softened with age, and found his early self kind of embarrassing. He was a 20-year-old autistic shut-in regurgitating shit he picked up from 100-year-old books by quacks.
>>
I did some digging around re the Barker question and came across this post:
https://fabledlands.blogspot.com/2022/03/was-professor-m-r-barker-nazi.html
Pretty interesting to me
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>>86824111
>DM audit
Its sort of shitty but another advantage of the index card and slot system is its easy to randomly ask for their inventory and check. I have 1 player who flat out can't be trusted to accuratly track his encumberace. Otherwise great player but he'll "forget" or otherwise miscount in his favour every time if I don't check sometimes.
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>>86824200
People seem to forget that he completely denounced his old views and admitted he was totally humiliated by them in some of his later correspondences.
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>>86824200
Im not following the conversation, but I just wanna say that I find the idea of Lovecraft imagining Buddhist monks, and their penchant for non-Christian enlightenment, as sinister oriental sorcerers to be extremely amusing.
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>>86824218
Pack rats always need to be reigned in.
That's why we have encumbrance systems to begin with.
I like you index card idea but I already have to many index cards scattered around the table between my dungeon turn tracker, NPC mini character sheets and other odds and ends.
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>>86824198
>Gibbets bridge
under the great bridges that connect the city to the mainland hang thousands of cages, exposed to the elements. prisoners are hoisted across the bridge inside these cages, having food hoisted to them from above, and otherwise are exposed to the elements.
the greatest torture enacted is occasionally the cage will be loosened slightly, having the cage fall then come to a dead stop. this takes the place over days or weeks, slowly getting lower and lower until a trigger in the cages floor commences, tumbling the prisoner to his death. the incredibly lucky few will have the floor trigger early and fall, pleas for mercy are rarely answered. the spikes lining the cages insides prevent any from clinging for life when the floor swings out from beneath them.
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>>86824228
Yeah, old man Lovecraft was a far better guy than young incarnation-of-/pol/-shitposter Lovecraft.
>>86824232
It is pretty funny. I also love how turbans hide weird mutations and non-human anatomy in a lot of his stories.
>>86824236
You sound like you're butthurt and should probably put some salve on it. Ignoringdopamine-addicted twitter users in need of an outrage fix (who nobody should give a fuck about), real people generally recognize that somebody can change.
>>
>>86824236
>oh em gee the writer born in 1890 used le "N word"
>this is unforgivable
Settle down retard. It was literally a hundred years ago.
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>>86824216
His defense of the book sounds plausible, but his defense of Barker sitting on the editorial board of a holocaust-denier magazine feels really weak.
>Maybe he joined the editorial board as a goof?
Writing the novel as a goof I could buy, but not that.
>>
>>86824216
Good read, thanks. It’s too bad Prof Barker will always have this stain on his legacy but at least some of his contemporaries have made an effort to debunk the claims and examine the evidence instead of assuming the worst. Progressive canceleers are allergic to nuance and rarely take the time to consider context or any gloss that doesn’t support their narrative.
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>>86824236
So if people can’t improve or find redemption what is the progressive philosophy progressing to? Where is the empathy and acceptance that are supposed to be pillars of that worldview.
Sounds like a foundation of hypocrisy to me if you can’t allow for personal growth and course correction of problematic beliefs.
>>
>>86824469
That is because they are stupid
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>>86824236
all the replies to this are actual victims of autism
including me
>>
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>>86824111
>DM audit
Put a well-designed inventory space on the character sheet and audits become a thing of the past.
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>>86824508
There’s no evidence of that. Show me the proof that I am autistic.
>>
>>86824508
The doctor said I was "high functioning"
>>
>>86824533
Describe your feelings on dinosaurs.
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>>86824533
What's your favorite train horn?
>>
>>86824550
The Nathan Airchime K-Series.
>>
Rolled 9 (1d10)

>>86808124
Let's ride
>>
>>86824404
I agree. What was particularly flimsy to me was the "was Phillip Barker, Ph.D really MAR Barker?" thing. A cursory search shows that the Phil Barker who was on the editorial advisory committee lived in Minneapolis, which is where MAR lived. Sure there might have been two Phil Barker, Ph.D's living in Minneapolis and one just happened to be on the board of a holocaust-denial magazine and the other happened to have a noted fascist father and write a speculative fiction novel calling the nazis the good guys but that is quite a few wild coincidences.
>>
>>86818229
>thus obliterating them in every dimension and erasing them from the multiversal continuity
Brutal
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>>86824510
>modern designed character sheet in old school D&D
>saving throw (singular)
>kindred traits
>not using loose leaf or the historically accurate official character sheet from the time period your rule set is from
GYG and take your FOE character sheets with you.
I could just have players make a hard line after they fill out their equipment. Then I'll know at a glance when I need to apply additional weight penalties
>>
>>86824200
I'm unironically gonna have to sourcefag you on that. I've seen several old links of redditors doing the same cope but never seen anyone provide any source.
>>
>>86824510
So just one item per line? What if it's a backpack that contains multiple items or a pouch of coins?
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>>86821415
Bro fucking don't

Use a nornal starter module
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>>86825282
Lovecraft biographer ST Joshi refers to it in his works. I Am Providence: the Life and Times of HP Lovecraft would probably be the best source.
The gist of it is in his early life Lovecraft thought Anglocentric culture was superior to every other culture and later in life this softened to a belief that cultures should remain distinct and of themselves. So he was anti-miscegenation but also a multi-culturalist. His anti-semitism had definitely softened as he married a Jew and had regular friendly correspondence with a few Jewish authors and poets whose names I can’t recall.
It’s not debatable that he held racist beliefs but he did admit, as anthropological science produced more and more evidence, that his beliefs were rooted in emotion and not the pseudo-scientific teachings he held in esteem when he was a younger man. Any embarrassment he has was probably a product of knowing he had been duped rather than holding condemnable beliefs.
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>>86824218
I am shitty with keeping track of stuff so I just bring enough mules and hirelings to not care.
>>
>>86822035
>Skerples says this right in the introduction
So fucken what, there's nothing in there that's particually challenging for a new DM. I'm running it as my first one right now. None of my problems had anything to do with the module itself. It's definately fine for beginners.
I would have had more trouble with B2, honestly.
>>
>>86825473
Good post. I'd also challenge anyone who thinks he was an incorrigible racist his entire life to show me where the racism is with Hannah and Asa in The Strange Case of Charles Dexter Ward. Theyre a black couple and are portrayed as warm and decent human beings.
>>
>>86817019
I like the system they gave in Carcass Crawler.
>>
>>86819962
Where's the "Intuitive spellcasting" or is that the shapeshifting?
>>
My players are approaching lvls 3-4 and amassing a sizeable sum of gp. They're looking for property right now to store it in and I figure it's a good opportunity for them to hire some henchmen and start amassing a warband if they want to. Does anyone have any good ideas for mid-level threats that bluntly encourage the use of hirelings? e.g. For encouraging fleeing when necessary and lateral thinking, I've used a metal colossus to bluntly get the point across that normal "hit man with sword" won't work.
I was thinking of using more "fortress" dungeons where enemies will coordinate more responding to noise and actually using the intended # of appearing monsters in parentheses in wilderness encounters. I'm worried that that will just come across as a sudden difficulty spike in the campaign though rather than teaching my intended osr principle.
>>
>>86825350
Then it takes up multiple lines. An arming sword or buckler takes up two lines, a gambeson takes up four, etc. Tamps down on the potential absurdities inherent in slot-based encumbrance.
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>>86824510
I always prefer the whole THAC0 matrix, it doesn't take up that much space (Or rather - it takes up a whole column or line, which means it doesn't leave weird space over to fill in, it acts like a separator)
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>>86826177
Basic, but a younger dragon could do the trick. A hit from it's breath weapon could reduce many a hireling to goop, even if the save succeeds.
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>>86824851
>saving throw (singular)
Extremely good design and works fine any old edition - there's no difference between a class having 1 save and a class just having the same value for each of five saves, and there's nothing important in the game that tests on your PP and RSW being different value.
>>
>>86826177
>Does anyone have any good ideas for mid-level threats that bluntly encourage the use of hirelings?

Minor threats that tend to split up - yeah your party can easily BTFO any group of three goblins, but (overland) can they defend the 5 different places the 15 goblins are trying to raid at once? And can they (dungeon) defend the front, rear and both flanks at the same time as the goblins swarm from their hidey-holes?
>>
>>86826109
Just a way of explaining that the druid doesn't cast from a spellbook, and they learn spells as they level not necessarily from spell research (like a cleric? correct me if i'm wrong).
Druids have their own spell list, use the one in Advanced OSE or wherever you like, I just didn't feel the need to rewrite it.
>>
>>86824510
>1 line = 1kg
Explain? Seems weird, you could write out inventory that isn't that weight in those spaces.
>>86826180
Oh. That's not a well designed inventory section then is it?
>>
>>86825486
>would have had more trouble with B2
>I don't know I'm retarded and you can too
lmao
Its a linear parachute parent handhold of a module that 'teaches' all the wrong lessons, has shit random encounters and factions, totally incorrect treasure quantities for anything except his gloghomebrew and aims at boss fights and quirky dmpc patrons.
>>
>>86826177
Just fucking tell them your 'principals' outloud, then proceed with your more organized enemies and difficulty.
Weird they didn't have any sort of hirelings to begin with t b h.
>>
>>86826256
>there's no difference between a class having 1 save and a class just having the same value for each of five saves, and there's nothing important in the game that tests on your PP and RSW being different value.
doubt.jpg
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>>86808073
I'm asking seriously, what did the "artpunk" stuff like Mork Borg and other stuff like IntotheOdd or stuff like that miss while doing OSR?
Also why did they do it, as in why did they create this stuff and publicize it as OSR?
>>
>what did they miss?
OSR is not a term for lazy game design. They expect you to fill in the blanks. Nu-SR is the same shit with early-access games.

>>86827025
>why did they create this stuff and publicize it as OSR
associate it with a well-established brand to milk money

Go to reddit's /osr/ and when someone asks for an OSR game they dont even talk about the OLD-SCHOOL games, but old-school-styled games. Those people are into the "retro" thing, more than the games themselves. And we know what -styled means in advertising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=83
>>
>>86827116
https://youtu.be/X08upzdwejg?t=83
>>
>>86827116
OK, because I gave a read at the previously mentioned mork borg and it basically takes B/X and removes anything that would allow you to make more complex than a potato, besides the quirky and for the fun less stats and different magic system, fine by me, I can accept some new things, but there is now dungeon procedure, no proper weight system, no mercenaries, no greater game managment.
Basically they made it like 5e where there is just a fighting system and no ability system.
Is this it? Did I miss something?
Why did it get so succesful? Besides the very cool looking art (please don't tell me everyone got blinded by the art)
>>
>>86827025
>what miss
Largely long term play procedures, or procedures that stand up to long term play, often removed for the sake of expediency and ease of use for short games. The dm advise sections tend to work with the assumption of preexisting background in osr, or have gotten far enough from god's light that they no longer even know that background exists. Its been a long process of telephone from early ultralights like Searchers of the Unknown, seeing how little you could get away with, to things like OZR, that don't even know what has been removed.
Some of this is due to a shift in gameplay being more and more compressed/compartmentalized as free time becomes more commodified and broken.
Some is due to high production values and overdesing masquerading as minimalism is a lot easier to do than functional minimalism.
Some is due to the zakening and G+ dissolving around the same time and the general drifting of the various osr groupings.
They do it because it sells. Look at exhaulted funeral. Or they make it because they don't know or wouldn't care to know, look at unconquered.
Side note while we're speculating on tendencies of authors, its quite likely Mcdowel was on /osrg/ a while ago testing his Bastion game. There were rough drafts of a very similar setting with overcomplicate rules that become simpler over time. A lot of the artpunk use to be here. Michael Raston, false patrick, zak, probably more.
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>>86827154
>Why did it get so succesful? Besides the very cool looking art (please don't tell me everyone got blinded by the art)
Its easy and hip. Most rpg book sales aren't for playing, they're sold to collect or be novelty items. Sucks but its been the norm for ages. Marketing as 'cool' to nerd has also been a thing forever.
Its annoying in that it makes more grift to shift through to find interesting matieral, now having to go through the low effort shovelware like fillibar and the high gloss shovelware like mork borg, but happens. It might fad a bit as a fad once the recession hits.
>>
>>86827159
>zakening
?
>exalted funeral
OSE? Dunno seems a straighforward B/X clone? Nothing bad with that I guess.
>unconquered
Dunno what that is.
Anyway thanks for the analysis.
>>86827205
Ah so it is how I suspected, you don't play them you collect them for fun.
I mean kinda loosely related, gave a look at the cy_borg game and it's good only to steal tables for, the rest is as a reskin of their previous product with lots and lots of random words and no explanations.
>>
>>86826926
>explain kilograms
…burger or brainlet?
>>
OSE box-set kickstarter still hasn't arrived. I'm getting worried, consoomer bros
>>
>>86827253
>you don't play them you collect them for fun.
Not what I do, but its the majority of book purchases in general.
You seem new.
tl;dr there was a somewhat more centralized osr grouping (that was also an attempt to control resource flow) which helped maintain some semblance of consistent rules with some variation, that has fallen apart for various reasons common enough to small groups of cool kids.
Exhalted Funeral is the market friendly lotfp that has filled in post various social problems with the previous cool kids. Look at the rest of their catalogue and advertising.
Unconquered or OZR are just examples of newer 'osr' that I'd looked at most recently, there's lots.
Reskinning, reprinting, releasing new and improved editions, etc. is a very lucrative marketing strat. Pirate the stuff you want, pay for the books you'll get good use out of.
>>
>>86827154
>Why did it get so succesful?
LoTFP got blacklisted by the nuSR Taliban so the clique needed a new edgy artfag system tom latch on to
>>
>>86827125
good link, good post
>>
>>86826956
>Its a linear parachute parent handhold of a module
It's only linear in the beginning
> 'teaches' all the wrong lessons
No it doesn't. It teaches observation, pattern recognition, and the notion that not all encounters should end in combat. What are the "right" lessons?
>>
>>86827253
Lurk more
>zakening
You should figure this out on your own
>exalted funeral
Did not publish OSE (that's necrotic gnome), but rather high-prod value modules and small RPGs. They're sometimes accused of putting flash above substance.
>>
>>86827270
NTA but I think it's kind of weird to have one line equivalent to exact weight units instead of just nebulous abstract item slots. If I'm using slots I want to do so precisely because I don't want to have to think about item weight.
>>
>>86826914
>Druids have their own spell list
Are there other things from the default druid they reuse that you didn't feel the need to specify?
>>
>>86827270
>Instead of using precise weight everything is just a line, that's simpler
>but also a line is a kilogram so things that weigh more take more lines
>if you don't think my ridiculous bullshit is simpler than normal encumbrance surely you are American
No mate, you're just retarded.
>>
>>86827674
Besides their spell list, the spells per level progression. The default druid's is a little slower than the magic user's - seems fine.
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Would this be a quick way to create more memorable/ 3D NPCs?
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>>86827671
You can't really play OSR without thinking about item weight. Logistics is half the game. Anyone using nebulous slots is a FOE.
>>86827691
You don't get it. That's fine. I'm not here to spoonfeed you best practices. But I've gotta say, the fact that I never have to tally up coinweights or ever audit a player's sheet feels pretty good man.
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>>86827932
>He thinks my system is retarded
>He probably doesn't get it

I see this cope from bad programmers all the time. We get it bro, your solution works. We're not saying it doesn't. We're just saying it's retarded.
>>
>>86827932
LotFP has a slot system I've used before that I'm quite partial too. It works almost identical to yours except without the notion that 1 slot equals 1 kg. That's ones not FOE.
The OSE slot system is also very similar. I wouldn't say that one is FOE either.
Also fuckin' B/X abstracts item weight to 80 cn, and if you're going to call B/X FOE then you have worms in your brain
>>
>>86827922
I really like this. I was thinking of doing something similar with Nicomachean Ethics but I like how you streamlined it.
>>
>>86827116
>Go to reddit's /osr/ and when someone asks for an OSR game they dont even talk about the OLD-SCHOOL games, but old-school-styled games. Those people are into the "retro" thing

Why are they like this bros, why do they have to be faggots about everything that they pretend to be interested in?
>>
>>86814813
>the creator of a SOVLful setting possesses a SOVL
>this is worthy of remarking on
>>
recommend me some underrated meatgrinders ala tomb of horrors
I know people shill death frost doom but its pretty ass given that you have very minimal reason to interact with anything even if your goal is just to get through the dungeon
>>
>>86828918
Tomb of the Mud Sorcerer from Dragon (or was it Dungeon) is favorably compared to TOH
>>
>>86827922
Potentially, though you've got to roll at least 6(?) times per character. I made a personality generator that works on two card draws. A shame there aren't 6 card suits it would reduce your system to three card draws.
>>
>>86828918
>recommend me some underrated meatgrinders ala tomb of horrors
There are no underrated meatgrinders. They are all either correctly rated ("dogshit") or overrated (Anything rated higher than "dogshit")
>>
>>86829403
have you been diagnosed for autism yet?
>>
On the topic of meatgrinders
>main dungeon entrance features powerful monsters that could easily TPK (golems?), fake-out exit trap, and two almost hidden exits
>secondary entrances are safer but need to be discovered
Would you call bullshit or nah?
>>
>>86829622
for something meant to be a meatgrinder? Yeah thats fine
For something meant to be a regular dungeon? Way overkill. Multiple deaths or likely TPK because someone didnt explore the right way is pretty excessive. It would need to be really REALLY well telegraphed.
>>
>>86827628
>newfag uses shit module, doesn't even know what it does wrong
It specifically has no wandering monsters until the 3rd fucking level of the dungeon, no active factions, he had to be called out by a variety of people to include telegraphing at all for the first trap to add in whatever the fuck you think pattern recognition is, and yeah its a serious problem when the first 8 rooms of a dungeon are a straight line when one of the core ideas of osr dungeon exploration is not being a straight line.
>oh but he says you can do whatever you want if you don't like those things
Then fuck off when everyone wants to do something else instead of defending your shit dungeon.
>>
>>86827932
>weight is important
>anyway here's my bad design that obfuscates weight
lol
>>
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>>86827253
>>zakening
>?
>>
>>86829472
>have you been diagnosed for autism yet?
Absolutely, I have the kind of autism where all your opinions are always correct, it's a great diagnosis to show people who disagree with me.
>>
>>86826177
>My players are approaching lvls 3-4 and amassing a sizeable sum of gp
Are you using training costs? Because they shouldn't have much money that early.
>>
>>86826256
>>86827932
Wait? You actually use that FOE character sheet?
>>
>>86830121
Which edition has training costs in the rules?
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>>86830221
I'm away from my library right now (holiday), but at the very least, the Efreet cover AD&D 1e DMG absolutely has the training rules included, so the earlier books should have them as well. They're DMG rules, though, not PHB, which is why a lot of people miss them.
>>
>>86830053
please touch grass
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>>86830189
>I should shit up the thread with more "FOE" bullshit calls
Do, or do not. There is no try. (When it comes to KYS yourself)
>>
>>86830409
>please touch grass
Absolutely not my bed is too comfy
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>>86830280
NTA but my group has never used training rules, we just level up once we get a chance to rest in town.
Am I missing out on much if I dont include this in my game?
>>
>>86830735
No, it's an option if you want to keep your players poor, but if you want to do domain-level stuff they're going to need large sums anyway for hiring soldiers and building strongholds, or for building wizard's towers and doing magica research
>>
>>86830640
Your character sheet has "intuition" modifying "saving throw (singular)" and calls race "kindred"
That's FOE. Now GYG.
>>
>>86830788
That's just renaming intelligence and race. Dumb, but hardly FOE. It might fuck up balance a little if "Intuition" is still useful for magic users, it would mean they tend to have the best "save" in the party.
It's kinda shit, but I wouldn't lump it in with Morka Borka or Avel Knavel
>>
>>86830788
>Your character sheet
It's not mine fagtron, I didn't call out your faggotry because it was directed against me, I called it out because it's faggotry.
>>
>>86828200
Ultima 4 rpg here we go
>>
>>86830735
It's a way to pull excess money out of the campaign, which then in turn motivates the PCs to go adventuring again in order to get more money.
>>
>>86830053
It seems more like you have the kind of autism where you act like a faggot
>>
>>86830923
>It's not mine fagtron
Then declare yourself NTA
>>86830847
It's FOE nuOSR bullshit and it needs to GYG.
>>
>>86830788
>house rules are FOE
>Swords & Wizardry style saving throw is FOE
Keep digging, chum.
>>86830847
Take note of the order of stats. The first three listed are Strength, Wisdom, Charisma. I retain Strength as the prime requisite for fighting men; but I use Wisdom for wizards and Charisma for clerics. Int gets renamed Intuition at my table purely as a message to players unfamiliar with the old-school style that no number on the sheet represents their character's intellect, they have to provide that themselves.
>>86831858
>It's FOE nuOSR bullshit and it needs to GYG.
I was here before the OSR, I was here to help get it off the ground, I'll be here long after you're bored with your tourism and have leapt off the bandwagon.
>>
>>86831894
>I was here before the OSR
Then you should know that most FOE accusations are just light hearted jabs.
>>
>>86830735
Missing a lot
>training time and costs add dynamism
>searching for mentors and maintaining relationships with them add depth
>>
>>86831982
Of course.
Except for accusations directed at Mjørk Bjørk, that shit doesn't ever get to be let off the hook.
>>
>>86824510
Another
>wish I was playing T&T
Player
>>
>>86831999
>Except for accusations directed at Mjørk Bjørk, that shit doesn't ever get to be let off the hook.
Trips of truth.
>>
Recently started playing b/x with friends, but Im just wondering if its normal for the ERP sections to be longer than the dungeon craws?
>>
>>86832037
Ya caught me. The Chainmail fields are actually where players are supposed to record their Luck, Power, Personal Adds and Saving Rolls.
>>
>>86832109
That's probably unique to your table.
>>
>>86828918
Slaughtergrid
>>
>>86829651
Completely talked past the post you were responding to but alright whatever man
>>
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>>86828666
>>86822578
>>86822741
>>86822827
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>>86832723
follow your leader?
to the sunny shores of Argentina?
>>
>>86832723
also, Le Holter allegedly shot himself with a Walther PPK, not a revolver from what looks like the late 1800s
>>
>>86832757
You don't think he'd use a schofield?
>>
>>86814813
>wears Adidas
>wears Hugo Boss
>drinks Fanta
>’EotPT? UGH!’
>>
>>86832124
>modifies D&D so much it is not compatible
>too dim to get the analogy
Tracks
>>
>>86832803
If you think that character sheet breaks compatibility I'm surprised you could figure out the captcha to make the post.
>>
>>86832847
>reduced to a single save
>changes which characteristics apply to which class
>eliminates Character intelligence and uses Player skill instead
It is not the piece of paper that makes it non compatible
>>
>>86832109
If your ERP isn't centered around dungeon crawling you're doing it wrong.
>>
>>86817019
Adapted from Dragon Quest but
40', 8 slots. 30', 10 slots, 20', 12 slots

Light armor is 1 slot, medium 2, heavy 3. Items available in the Expert set occupy 1 slot for listed group, slots do not change when they are being used (but do when they are gone.)

100 coins = 1 slot.
>>
>>86832962
Unironically I occasionally think about homebrewing something up for a Corruption of Champions-esque OSR game.
If I had a cute girl to play it with I totally would.
>>
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>>86832723
Impotent seething :)
>>
>>86832799
He used a large cock.
>>
>>86833160
You people are unhinged. Get help mang.
>>
>>86832906
Seriously, if you can't run KotB with those three nigh cosmetic changes, off the top of your head, I don't know what to tell you. The only thing unclear to me is the Wisdom/Downtime relationship which I assume has something to do with magic research.

>>86824510
Do you have a house rules document? I'm curious about some of the alterations.
>>
>>86833160
Based schizo
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>>86833160
>>
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>>86833160
>>
>>86832690
Funny, you already did that with your first reply you disingenuous fuck.
>>
>>86828918
SLAUGHTER GRID
>>
>>86816272
>B1 is strangely overlooked.
B1 is half of a very mediocre module that you can expand into an incredibly mediocre module by doing a lot of work that is done for you in other modules that cost exactly the same.

It's literally "A magic user and a fighter went in on a stronghold together and now they're dead and it's a dungeon. We drew two pages of map and lazily stocked one of them, you can stock the other."
>>
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>>86833307
B1 is OK, not really the best module out there. I don't know why people THINK it has an untouchable reputation, that's generally reserved for B2.

>>86833125
lmao eat shit subhuman.
>>
What excuse should I use for why all the small time low level dungeons havent already been cleaned out by the locals?
>>
>>86833402
Because small time low level dungeons are horrifying.
>>
>>86833402
The locals have grown up seeing adventurers head out to the dungeons and are very aware that far fewer come back. They know better than to risk their necks -- besides, every time someone "clears them out," a few months later some fresh horror has moved in.
>>
>>86833402
You don't really need excuses.
Most people aren't the right mix of brave, stupid, desperate and skilled.
Most dungeons have mean bad shit in them at will kill you.
Those two things combined should be reason enough but points of light takes care of the rest of it while providing room for the players to make little empires and you to fill in blanks as it comes up.
>>
>>86833307
>>86833398
I'd be interested to see all the various things kids who filled in B1 came up with. Probably lots of it would be predictable but some of it would be unusual outsider art sort of material.
>>
>>86833496
Goodman Games OAR version has a selection of stocked rooms from different writers/designers.

But yeah, it would be neat to track down some used copies with notes and record them for posterity.
>>
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>>86828918
>>86829217

The Mud Sorcerer’s Tomb, Dungeon #37
>>
>>86833514
I'll check those out, thanks anon.
Its not a thing I have time for but someone making a blog of older hand written bits in classic modules and rulebooks where people can mail in pictures of the stuff they've found and it gets posted with some commentary would be neat.
I've got the houserules from someone's campaign in the back of my ad&d dmg, some anon here found a map in theirs I think. Must be a good amount of it out there given the number of copies sold.
>>
>>86832799
The grip and frame does remind me of a schofield but top break revolvers like the schofield do not have ejector rods
>>
>>86834131
Fuck.
>>
All hobbit party. How will the game go?
>>
new
>>86834450
>>86834450
>>86834450
>>
>>86834422
To Mordor, obviously.
After a big party and stopping for second breakfast along the way.
>>
>>86834422
The whole game is taming/befriending an eagle and creating delicious food.



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