I'm a filthy secondary that just binged the Cyberpunk Edgerunners anime and I loved it. I think Night City and the world is interesting and I would like to learn more. Is the tabletop interesting (both lore and mechanics wise) and worth my time? Which edition would you recommend? I have not played the videogame and do not really plan to in the near future.
>>86122394The anime had pretty much nothing to do with the tabletop game, apart from being cyberpunk as a genre and lifting corp names. And the name of the mcguffin protagonist gets in the beginning, which doesn't even work in any way similar to how it works in tabletop.
It's "Genre: The Tabletop Game!"Give 2020 a read if you want. If you're new to tabletop games and you actually want to play them, your first goal ought to be to find/coerce enough friends/strangers to play with you regularly every week for 4-6 hours. After you have a group, talk with them about what game you'll all be comitting at least a few months to, and then if you need a second opinion come back here and ask.
>>86122807>It's "Genre: The Tabletop Game!"Sure, but in this case genre is extremely focused. There's very very little media that's actually cyberpunk. Much stuff gets slapped with the label, sure, but even the superficially close ones like GitS is far more about transhumanism and lack the punk aspect altogether.
>>86122807OP here. I'm not new, I mostly have played Vampire and Call of Cthulhu and thankfully it seems I have tricked some new people already to run another VtM chronicle.But I do enjoy RPGs and cyberpunk media, so this seemed like a good fit. If I also get a cool game to play in the future all the better. I will read 2020 as you suggest. Thanks, anon.
>>86122394>Is the tabletop interesting (both lore and mechanics wise) and worth my time?Yes much more so than that stupid video game.
>>86122394I like that the dude who originally made the table top game is the voice of the radio host in the video game.
>>86122394It's really good, mostly. There are some flaws. For one, the world is very dated in Cyberpunk 2020, as some of the technology you see is shit like a cell phone (no, not a smart phone, but a tactile button cell phone) because that was seen as futuristic back then. By far the worst part I've heard is the Netrunner class. You'd think it'd just be a tech magic user but they actually went full tilt into an entire sub-game. You're playing a different game entirely with the Netrunner class and that's really bad since you're trying to keep everyone engaged, not just the Netrunner character. The Netrunner minigame is very clunky itself.I've heard that Cyberpunk 2020 is very good if you substitute some of the tech with the Cyberpunk R.E.D. tech, and also use the Netrunning from Cyberpunk RED.
>>86122394CP2020 is really great if you enjoy a crunchy TTRPG, its only REAL downside, the BIG downside, is that the rules are written kind of ameturely, some rules have really in depth clarification, others have barely a sentence. Cyberpunk RED is written a lot clearer, and is a bit more streamlined too, less crunch but still crunchier than say, D&D5e.The lore is awesome, and learning some of the major adventures that CP2020 has to offer actually sets up 2077 for quite a few characters.
>>86123184The "one type of character is playing a completely unrelated subgame" issue is pretty common across many games (even outside the Cyberpunk genre) and Cyberpunk struggles with it too.
>>86122394I wouldn't play the old system nowadays, but the sourcebooks still are gold, night city is the best scenario book of any rpg, the gm guide gives real tips on how to run any game, chromebooks and corpobooks are full of ideas
>>86123253>crunchyIt really isn't though. I was able to figure it out quick, and I'm a fucking retard.
>>86123627Yeah, but youre some sperg on 4chan, you're probably an idiot savant when it comes to math, not everyone can add up 6 different modifiers in their head quickly to see if that value is more than 15. besides the point, 2020 is definitely crunchier than RED or more standard TTRPGS
>>86122650Tbf, that’s how it works in the 2077 game. It’s way more busted in the game because you can use it way more often and for longer without any side effects
>>86122394I've played Cyberpunk 2020 almost since it came out in the early 1990s. It's an absolutely simple system, that any imbecile should grasp within a session - I used it as introduction game for kids. Is the lore interesting? Honestly, no. Are the mechanics elegant and streamlined? Not really, but they're mostly simple and easy to run.
>>86123076The vidya is great, stop being a cunt.
>>86123184There's nothing wrong with retrofuturism, anon.
>>86123891>not everyone can add up 6 different modifiers in their head quickly to see if that value is more than 15.If you can't do that you're a retard.
>>86126678I doubt it, everything CD Project has put out since Witcher 1 has been either meh or subpar.
>>86126747If you don't try to play it on a subpar system it's amazing, even my PS4 Pro ran with almost no bugs from launch day. It's no Deus Ex or New Vegas when it comes to multiple solutions to your problems, but it's not far off either.
>>86122394I love CP2020, it was one of the first systems I've ever ran for a group of people as their very first TTRPG and frankly, it's really quite basic and simple. Not crunchy at all as some people claim.That being said, it's very dated both as a setting and a system so some inconsistencies in lore and rules do arise.Like anon >>86123184 says, its an 80s vision of the future and so flip phones and shit are the height of technology. Honestly, this isn't really an issue if you and your players are aware of it before hand and I love playing this retro style of future.Second, a bunch of the rules are unbalanced and janky. One that many people note is that Netrunning is basically another game altogether with the netrunner and GM running through a dungeon by themselves while the rest of the party just sits there doing nothing the whole time.Another is that the balance of weapons to armour is off, even starting level armours will make you impervious to nearly all pistols and later power armours means that only anti tank weapons can take you on.Hit locations are retarded, you have a higher chance of shooting someone's legs than their torso.Since fumbles are a 1 on D10, you can expect to fumble about 10% of the time, which turns a lot of sessions into clown shows.Thankfully, they are all easily fixed:>NetrunningEither port over the Netrunning from RED, the fan made mod "Interlock Unlimited", limit the Netrunner to using "The Menu" commands, or just not have a netrunner at all.>ArmourUse Dimiscul's armour values, basically just take 2/3s of the armour value that is printed. Have more dudes carry AP rounds.http://dimuscul.clon01.net/CombatArmorHR.htm>Hit LocationsDimiscul again rebalanced thishttp://dimuscul.clon01.net/CombatLocations.htm>FumblesInterlock Unlimited has this one solved, basically, if you roll a 1, roll another D10 and if you roll OVER the skill you just failed, then its a fumble.Otherwise, it's a great system with EXCELLENT sourcebooks.
>>86123184>shit like a cell phone (no, not a smart phone, but a tactile button cell phone)i want those to circle back around and be the future thing again, smart phones are dumb
Not the OP but related question: I've seen people saying "grab Netrunning and some minor stuff from RED and put it in 2020" but what if I wanted to run RED with some stuff from 2020? What should I put in it?
>>86127815all of Cyberpunk 2020 minus the netrunning?
>>86127815the guns in 2020 were more flavorful and distinct. download old guns never die https://rtalsoriangames.com/downloads/or just get Interface vol 1 which has that and more stuff if you prefer having it in print
>>86127542How the fuck does lowering armor value help ANYTHING in 2020? And if armor is lower what's the point of using AP rounds at all? This is such a retarded take I'm genuinely baffled. What kind of soulsborne-addicted twat likes rocket tag combat this much? You do know part of Night City is cyberpsychos walking through hails of gunfire and needing military grade weapons to stop, right?
>>86122892>Much stuff gets slapped with the label, sure, but even the superficially close ones like GitS is far more about transhumanism and lack the punk aspect altogether.I usually hear GITS described as "Post-cyberpunk" since in many ways it's a response to a lot of the ideas prevalent in the cyberpunk genre, it's like "yes the future will be rife with political turmoil, rampant megacorps, increasingly prevalent blending of human and machine and the emergence of AI but that doesn't mean we are necessarily on a downward trajectory or that we need to entirely burn down society, that's naive!".
>>86125815My thoughts exactly it's a system where a lot of the charm comes from not being overly crunchy mess like Shadowrun even if the lore is meh. >>86122394Outside of lore and terminology like Cyberpsycho both the video game 2077 and anime have very little to do with the actual game rules. The anime takes place closer to the game year of 2077 rather than the year 2020. So CDPR made up a bunch of lore and stuff for their ticked forward setting. That all well and good but I feel like the game largely missed the aesthetic and vibe of the source books. The show does a better job and even feels like a "animed" version of a 2020 campaign. Just don't go into it thinking it's some anime bullshit, 2020 is a very lethal game where players WILL die. If you do run a game use the core book only for the first couple of sessions/runs and then slowly branch out to the splat and chrome books.
>>86134095GitS also falls short of being actual cyberpunk because while there is a bit of a dystopia, the characters the series revolves around work for the government, they're not fighting a tyrannical authority, they're not defying anything. They're the ones fighting for the status quo, because it keeps people safe, even if also keeps them docile, like sheep. But, that's because it's Japanese, that's kind of their whole thing.
>>86134217GitS is plenty cyberpunky, it's just the story from the perspective of the cops. The punks are (sometimes) the antagonists.
>>86133827Have you played the game? It's MEANT to be deadly. The Core rulebook mocks other RPGs where the heroes are Hollywood action stars who take dozens of bullets and fire SMGs with one hand. Even the official GM's guide from R.Talsorian (Listen Up, you Primitive Screwheads) laments players who try to play macho western gunslingers offering fair fights.Take a steel helmet has an SP of 14. The most damaging Medium autopistol is a 10mm that does 2D6+3 of damage so you would need double sixes to do 2 points of damage on a HEADSHOT (1 point of regular damage, 1 point of double damage for headshot). The Heavy autopistols are 11 mm and have 3D6 so they have about a 15% chance of doing any sort of damage.This isn't touching on the fact that Nylon helmets have a SP of 20, making you nearly immune to headshots from any submachine gun and with a 70% chance of shrugging off 5.56 Assault rifle rounds.And this is all from gear PCs can get straight out Chargen. Regular gangers are no threat to them AT ALL and anyone less than MAX-TAC is gonna go down easy. You can literally delete the pistol section from the rulebook because they don't matter.I'm baffled that you don't think this is a problem since this is probably THE most house-ruled thing in all of Cyberpunk 2020 with many other people having their take, eithier reducing armour, increasing bullet damage or making some sort of damage always go through armour:https://www.cyberpunk2020.de/2007/07/21/variants-on-the-combat-system-in-cyberpunk-2020/http://users.jsmorisset.com/~davidm/NuYork2020RefInfo.html#House%20Ruleshttp://www.ambient.ca/cpunk/alternatebulletdamage.html
>>86122394Going on a purely mechanical basis, what's better, Cyberpunk(2020 or RED, your choice) or Shadowrun(edition of your choice, feel free to strip fantasy shit out)?
>>86135659A literal pile of rotting dogshit is a better system than Shadowrun on a purely mechanical basis.
>>86136229Shadowrun 2nd was good.
>>86122394My problem with cyberpunk is that you have extremely clunky but thematically on point systems or ones that cut the useless crunch but are just generic "cinematic" games...like no weapon should have 7 different traits to define it, but it isn't as bad as abstracting money out of cyberpunk
>>86136321The setting was, but the mechanics were still shit.
>>86135659God, I played a lot of SRv4 and I have to say the system kinda sucks. Crunch, arbitrary, unbalanced, and straight-up ridiculous in a lot of places. Later editions did not make it better.
>>86135659Cyberpunk,Shadowrun is garbageCyberpunk 2020/Red, Neon City Overdrive, GURPS Cyberpunk, all better.
>>86134217GitS is cyberpunk, its just a story from a different perspective. Protagonists being the punks is not at all a requirement. As long as the core themes are present, are first and foremost amongst themes and interact with a setting that compliments them, it can be cyberpunk.
>>86135659Try Cyberspace. ICE does decent rules, historically speaking.
>>86135659I'm a huge shadowrun fan. Mechanically shadowrun is like delivering a lecture on the difference between soap brands while feeding your dick into a meatgrinder.
>>86134894It's very cyber, but it's got no punk.
>>86135600Moron, I have played and run 2020 many times, but this shit you want is just retarded. Also, don't type 'headshot' in all caps like you're making a relevant point, because you're not. Yes Anon, armor does things, ooooh, amazing. If armor was as shit as you want, why would anyone wear it at all? If that's what you want (and it's a God damn stupid thing to want) then just remove it from the game, don't add some dipshit ruleshack and give every enemy AP rounds so armor might as well not exist.>nearly immune to head shots>15% chance of doing any sort of damageGood, that means playing a tank style character who's job it is to draw fire and absorb bullets is viable, nothing wrong with that. And the existence of things like acid and AP rounds means he's still not invincible, but his style of play is still *viable.* What's wrong with having more options for characters that actually work? Did it never occur to you that the availability of armor that does a God damn thing is how you curb Solos in combat? Winning initiative doesn't automatically win the fight if the other guy can take the bullet and still fight back.I'll pause while your brain recovers from that revelation.Okay let's continue.>And this is all from gear PCs can get straight out ChargenYeah and with the right choices and some luck a full borg conversion is also available right out of chargen too, and there's nothing wrong with that. >I'm baffled that you don't think this is a problem Your confusion is unsurprising, intelligence often looks like magic to stupid people. 2020 already has very lethal combat, what kind of brain damaged dipshit wants to make it worse? >many other peopleI guess having a power drill put through your brain is more common than I thought, because holy shit there's a lot of idiots out there. Many people agreeing with something that's stupid, doesn't make it less stupid.
>>86137600The "punk" aspect of a genre is a breakdown or radical change of established order, and GitS is all about averting that, it barely actually happens.
>>86135659If you want Shadowrun, use the Genesys setting layer, it's infinitely better mechanically.
>>86138706Alright man. Stay in your magic fantasy conversion with "tanks" where a Nylon helmet means you can resist 5.56 assault rifle rounds. Where every street ganger can just pull a WW2 M1 Steel Helmet from a milsurp store and overwhelm the local police precinct.
>>86139258Here's another reason it's stupid. When you make armor pointless, do you know what else you do? Make heavier weapons pointless as well. No one needs to upgrade their iron when a basic SMG has all the punch they need. You bitch that heavier armor invalidates lighter pistols? The nonexistence of decent armor invalidates the need for anything bigger than an SMG, numb nuts. Also, know what going around wearing that MetalGear all the time gets you? Attention, from everyone, including the fucking cops. There are reasons edgerunners might choose to not strap on full riot gear every time their leave the house. You are seriously mentally impaired.
>>86139258Your method means the best SP a player can expect to actually get from the heaviest armor in the core book, is 9. A medium SMG does 29 damage on average. Even with AP rounds doing half damage to flesh, and after you account for BTM, one shot will still tear off any limb it hits, head shots are instant death, and you're still absolutely going to fail the stun shock roll and drop, alive maybe, but out of the fight. Because you got hit once, with a basic submachine gun, while wearing the best armor in the core rulebook. That is what you're advocating.
>>86138733This hack, plus a cyberpunk setting of your choice, lets you turn it into Shadowrun in all but name.
I think armor always losing a point when hit is a fair trade. Sure you blocked the hit, but whatever got hit is still damaged..
>>86126678Not compared to the source material. It's an extremely watered down take on the game. Its like comparing the PC game Rolemaster Magestorm to the actual Rolemaster game.
>>86139770I've played 2020, RED and the vidya, I have no complaints.
>>86123891You think Rifts is to crunchy huh? Hahaha>Spoon feed me daddy i cant into maths
>>86139258>a Nylon helmet means you can resist 5.56 assault rifle roundsA 5.56 bullet in 2020 averages between 29 and 34 damage, a nylon helmet, which is described as being steel or kevlar, not actually the stuff they make windbreakers from BTW, has an SP of 20. So, it basically has a 1.62% chance of fully stopping the bullet, as in the 5d6 comes up 10 or under. Head shots do double damage, remember?
>>86140561The double damage is applied after armor isn't it?
I think that all Cyberpunk 2020/RED material should be used as inspiration for the environment or run the setting with the Fate Core system. I saw that there was a supplement to make cyberpunk campaigns.
>>86141005The book doesn't say when.>>86140561Your averages are wrong, BTW. If you apply SP before the doubled head damage, it's a 49.98% chance the helmet stops all damage from the bullet. If it's after, it's 1.62%.
I chose kerenzikov as my first cyberware and I wanna roleplay the character right. Any idea how someone suffering permanent slow-mo would act? Also how slowed down is time for them?
>>86139594>>86139672It doesn't make the heavier weapons pointless. When the players progress to facing off against the most dangerous enemies in the game, like MAX-TAC, Full Borgs and the best Corpos have to throw at them, then the heavy weapons come into play. You don't need to wear metal gear to absolutely tank assault rifle rounds with the rules as written.As for the rest of your post, it confuses me because it completely ignores Armour layering and cyberware commonly taken by players (Skinweave and Body plating) which means PCs often have SPs in excess of 30. Not just the base printed SP in the rulebook. That and how is a Medium SMG gonna do 29 points of damage on average?? If you're counting damage to armor doubling by AP rounds then the most damaging Medium SMG is 2d6+3 which gives an average of 10 damage with regular rounds or 20 with AP bullets (against armor only).You also seem to think that MetalGear armor is some sort of power armor. It's not. 24SP is pretty much nothing. Riot Cops get SP25 armor and even regular Police patrol helmets are 25SP. Pictured is what SP25 armor looks like in game. Large trees are considered having SP of 30 and armored cars SP40. Actual power armor in the Maximum Metal book has SPs of 50.>>86140561Average of 5d6 is 17.5. Doubling for headshots is done when applying wounds, the final step of damage resolution, so it's not doubled until it pierces armor. The sidebar on Pg.101 of the Core Rulebook clearly shows what they mean by "Armor". In game terms, stopping power means absolutely NO damage got through, not even a bruise.
>>86143361Interesting. I'v chosen to run a PC that had high starting empathy (8) and also generally likes everyone. But I'm guessing now I should act condescendingly but in a nice way because I feel everyone me is slow.
>>86143442>It doesn't make the heavier weapons pointless.It does, what's the point of larger, more powerful guns when there's no meaningful armor to get in your way? Why does the psycho squad matter when they have shit armor too? Full borgs would also have less protection.>You don't need to wear metal gear to absolutely tank assault rifle rounds with the rules as written.lol so what? Armor not keeping pace with weapons is so boring and realistic.>completely ignores Armor layeringA trap option. Also, leave out the U, use real words, not the Euro versions.>cyberware commonly taken by playersWhich also gets the axe with your method, and those AP rounds you love affect them as well.>24SP is pretty much nothingThen why are you so hardcore to make it even lower?
>>86135659>feel free to strip fantasy shit outI have two unwritten remixes in the back of my skull with regard to "Shadowrun, but with magic not omnipresent". One take on it is that iron hard blocks magic, and so it can be functionally removed from tables simply through building construction with a steel framework acting akin to a faraday cage. The other is just hard Arcanum rules where magic exists, but it causes technology to cease working properly.
>>86122394I'd use Infinity 2d20 as a base with Cyberpunk lore. You still get the focus on stylea and decently lethal combat while not having to suffer bad d% derivative skill system.
>>86143461>I'm guessing now I should act condescendinglyIt's one option, but you shouldn't feel shoe-horned into it. Acting fast doesn't necessarily mean thinking fast or acting smart.
>>86144181Good point but I have one more question. Does kerenzikov help someone drive better? It slows time down from the user perspective meaning they have more to react but it doesn't necessarily affect driving skills.