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>Previous Thread
>>86095636
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
http://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
> White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question
How many games are you in at the moment? Do you ST or play? If you've never played a game, what's stopping you?
>>
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>>86117648
>How many games are you in at the moment?
One game of CtL2e. We play each saturday and have kept that up for nearly 2 years now i think.
>Do you ST or play?
I'm the ST, but whe switch around after each chronicle
>If you've never played a game, what's stopping you?
Why would someone who never played waste his time here? That would be beyond pathetic.
>>
>>86117675
>That would be beyond pathetic.
Y-yeah ahah....
>>
>>86117648
My group usually has two or three campaigns running at once, currently we're alternating between CtL2e and a CofD alternate history where we've had multiple characters in long running families going from around when Constantine would have taken over the Empire to modern Era with the Roman colony in North America, but only the east coast was taken over.
>>
Ayy: The Lmaoing
>>
>>86117648
>How many games are you in at the moment?
2, and 1 is hopefully coming up
>Do you ST or play?
ST because the only way I can get the kind of game I want is to run it myself
>If you've never played a game, what's stopping you?
Every time I join a game as a player it dies before it gets off the ground. The 1 that is hopefully upcoming will hopefully actually start
>>
>>86117892
Wasn't there a fan game about aliens already? That and some Mirror books also has rules for aliens.
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What does your character loadout look like?
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>>86118174
>a revolver because the game is set in the U.S and supernatural powers are pointless when some problems can be very easily solved by just being armed
>a metal conductor's baton used to trigger the loophole for Autumn's Fury, because a problem that can be solved with galeforce winds and electrocution isn't a problem
>a bunch of folded origami birds to trigger the loophole for Tumult, because Fairest can give allies Inspired with it in addition to inflicting negative tilts on enemies
>a shotgun loaded with dragon's breath shells in the trunk of his car because this is america and you can buy that shit online so why the fuck not
>>
>>86117648
>How many games are you in at the moment?
Three games. W20, MtAw2e and V5.

>Do you ST or play?
Playing both W20 and MtAw2e and STing V5.
Tomorrow is W20 day and it's the Silent Strider judgement for his Litany breaking.
>>
>>86117648
None, I'm thinking about running a game but I have no friends so I'd have to recruit internet weirdos.
>>
>>86114612
I entirely agree with that. My V5 Chicago game is in 2019 (some months after Araceli Rivera's Embrace) and I use the metaplot from Coteries, Shadows, Winter Teeth/Crimson Maw, Heart of the Forest and other new 5e games installment.
One of my players is a Lasombra and I already told him he could "change the story" by trying to be the first Lasombra Primogen before Julia does it, effectively breaking the "no official position for Lasombra for the next 50 years" rule. Sadly, the way the player is doing his game, probably he'll just watch Julia do the thing.
Same goes for the Coteries story, which still didn't happen. Another player is a Tremere and he has ties with Aisling. I'm going to show him Sana's and Juno's plot and see if he makes a move on it.
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How do you make Shadow Lords interesting? They seem extraordinarily one note, what do they even do when there's no Silver Fang around to seethe over? It's not like they're the only tribe that wants to be in charge, in fact that seems like the standard for such a prideful race. And how do they operate when they actually do get on top? Do they have an actual plan?
>>
>TQ

1 play by post mage the awakening game. I'm playing a romani fortune teller Acanthus. She's also a Mysterium member. Not much happening yet but I'm sure as the story picks up pace things will get interesting.
>>
>>86119656
Who did he fuck?
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>>86117648
>If you've never played a game, what's stopping you?
I don't know anyone in real life who is willing to play tabletop games other than D&D.
The only game I'm really interested in is Mage: the Ascension, and I've looked online and it seems most online games are Vampire or Hunter.
But I'll never give up hope, I'm still searching...
>>
>>86120165
He's currently fucking a Metis Children of Gaia, but what he did was buying "Distinctive Appearence" as a Flaw and the description is "I got tattoos on my body and in my hands, where I have Garou Iconographies". He never tried to hide those hand tattoos in any single time.
He basicaly put a target on himself and everyone in the scenario. Plus, he appeared in Crinos in daylight and people are starting to talk about a monster wandering around the town who kidnaps women.
>>
>>86119923
>How do you make Shadow Lords interesting?
I'm sure there is something to build off their lore, I haven't read their tribe book but it sounds like a good starting point. Also their ties to the Tzimisce might be worth exploring with the Kinfolk revenant family being the best example I can think of the top of my head
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>>86120381
>Metis Children of Gaia
imagine how fucking depressing it is to be in the children of gaia whose stance is "uh hey guys how about we try and deal with the wyrm, maybe?" while every single other tribe is preoccupied with being completely fucking retarded and doing nothing but counterproductive infighting, eugenics, or infighting about eugenics
>>
>>86120737
The Children of Gaia have their faults too, but they're generally on the right track.
>>
>>86120812
Yeah. I just find it funny how the merciful tribe stance on the impergium was to use biological warfare and famines instead of killing people themselves.
>>
>>86120812
their biggest flaw is having too much faith in werewolf autism and retardation.
Every single Tribe obviously thinks "If only we were in charge and conquered all the other tribes, everything would be better off and we'd finally defeat the Wyrm!" but if any tribe was to have an Alexander the Great figure actually fucking get shit done and unite the Garou and maybe have a chance at stopping the fucking apocalypse and ACTUALLY DOING THEIR FUCKING JOB AND REASON WOOFS EXIST I'd put my money on a Unicorn having the best odds.

If you had to pick a tribe to get their shit together and drag the others kicking and screaming across the finish line I think it's gotta be them, their creation myth is even Gaia resurrecting the children of other tribes who were killed in retarded wars and infighting which pretty much sums up the state of werewolf society and why they'll never beat the wyrm.
>>
>>86120918
>but if any tribe was to have an Alexander the Great figure actually fucking get shit done and unite the Garou and maybe have a chance at stopping the fucking apocalypse and ACTUALLY DOING THEIR FUCKING JOB AND REASON WOOFS EXIST
That's Jonas Albrecht, the Silverest Fang.
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>>86120938
silver fangs are the ventrue problem where they are actually some of the last people you want in charge because they care more about the authority than they do solving the problem that needs a leader to solve
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>>86120918
>'d put my money on a Unicorn having the best odds.
t. unicorn
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>>86120737
How different are the Werewolfs in CofD, in comparison to WoD? Are they still self-destructive idiots?
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>>86121483
The main differences I felt were
>A lot more antagonism to the spirits
>Locus being the only place you can normally travel between planes is weird
>Cannibalism was surprisingly common
>Lunacy is USELESS
>Warform feels a lot more powerful and dangerous.
I'm sure I'm missing a lot of stuff but I have only been in 2 WtF games.
>Are they still self-destructive idiots?
they didn't felt like it. maybe the the actual lore contradicts this but the Forsaken felt rather cohesive in my experience.
>>
>>86120962
Fair.
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>>86121483
the creation myth for them is pretty self-destructive
>the spirit world and physical world were once one
>big wolf spirit called father wolf kept everything in check
>luna fucks father wolf and gives birth to the werewolves
>father wolf started to grow old and weak so his werewolf descendants killed him because he couldn't do his job any more
>turns out they couldn't do his job either and as soon as he died the world split in two and the harmonious paradise they loved was lost forever
>as punishment for fucking up the world luna saddled the werewolves with a bunch of curses
it's a whole lot more complicated than that and some CofD aficionado is probably going to call me a retard and give you the long version but that's the basics
>>
>>86121921
>the world split in two
Does it has anything to do with the Supernal World and Fallen World of Mage:Awakening or they're not related, because they're kinda similar.
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>>86122031
The Border Marches are post-sundering, although some mages think the Pangeans were partially Supernal beings since they could straight up use the Arcana
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>mfw Obstifucate and Temporis are hilarious together
I slowed time on a werewolf right before he was jumping to clear a rapidly moving river to maul some of my other teammates, and since he was only going half as fast as normal he couldn't make it, plunged into the river and was rapidly pulled downstream while screaming. Since I was effectively invisible when it happened, if he somehow lived through that, he'll assume one of the other party members made him look retarded and kill them first and i'll get to claim their stuff. Total win.
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>>86122279

True brujah anon thinking 12 steps ahead. Gigachad.
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>>86122279
Yeah... the Tremere really should develop more Time magic.
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>>86122644
Since there is a whole Arcana for Time, it shouldn't be impossible. How do the Tremere use Blood Sorcery to emulate Arcanas anyway?
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>>86122674
>How do the Tremere use Blood Sorcery to emulate Arcanas anyway?
by painstakingly recreating the effect of actual magic via thaumaturgical methods. it's like trying to make something in one operating system into another, there's no overlap and gotta do it all by scratch (but in exchange they don't trigger paradox which is nice)
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>>86122718
Maybe but since the old system was (mostly) instantaneous and had unlimited potencial, and the new system limits them by their Blood Potency and Discipline Level, it is still a downgrade.
>>
Has anyone shared Book of Lasting Death for Mummy 2e?
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How hard would it be to create or find a sorcery that would allow someone to increase generation without Diablery?
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>>86122794
Think there was a mechanic like that on Night Roads, but it was kinda tangencial to Diablery.
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>>86122820
>but it was kinda tangencial to Diablery.
How so?
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>>86122790
No
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>>86122832
There was a serum that allowed Vampire to obtain new abilities, improve their abilities and even increase their own generation by one, but one of the conditions for it to work as for the vampire to have commited Diablery before.
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>>86122968
That's cool, but obviously wouldn't be what i'm looking for. I'm looking for the thing every Humanitas vampire wants, a way to increase Gen without Diablery
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>>86122794
temporarily? it already exists
permanently? not happening
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Hypothetically, if you used Chimestry to convince the universe that you Diablerized someone and lowered your Generation, would it be morally wrong? You never Diablareized anyone, but the Universe says you did. So did you?
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>>86123009
Permanently anon. There has to be a way, this is owod we're talking about after all
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>>86122996
>I'm looking for the thing every Humanitas vampire wants, a way to increase Gen without Diablery
That completely defeats the purpose of a vampire's entire existence and what the curse even IS.
A Vampire's generation is how close they are to Cain. You don't get closer to Cain without getting either his blood, or the blood of somebody closer to him than you are. Maybe if you somehow tracked down Cain, or used archmage tier magic to somehow get some of his blood, you could lower your generation permanently but that's pure hypothetical plot device/deus ex machina territory and isn't worth talking about besides "give your ST a blowjob under the table"
>>
>>86123042
What power, exactly, are we talking about?
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>>86122794
The assamites have a ritual for that.
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>>86123042
That would fall under "temporarily lowering your generation" because as soon as the universe realizes you're a fraud you would lose the power, and there's already ways to temporarily lower your generation with blood sorcery
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>>86123084
Plot Device, this is a hypothetical scenario after all
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>>86123103
I love Chimerstry, so ... maybe an specific high level effect could be created to permanently lower your gen by 1-2 (with a final minimum of 4)?
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>>86123090
The assamites can go fuck themselves
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>>86123129
Based
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>>86122996
Maybe if you could get a Mage with Death and/or Prime to increase your curse or pull part of the curse of other vampires into yours, but that's just a hypothesis.
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>>86123067
>You don't get closer to Cain without getting either his blood, or the blood of somebody closer to him than you are
If that was the case, you could just lower Gen by drinking vamp blood. It's not about the blood, it's about the consumption of the soul
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>>86123157
>you could just lower Gen by drinking vamp blood
you can to a lesser extent, that's what ghoul powers are, the effect is just weaker for people not literally being given Cain's blood (the 2nd generation did not diablerize cain but still got his powers)
If Cain showed up and handed you a cup of his blood it would probably lower your generation, that's basically what happens in Bloodlines, but that's an incredibly fucking unrealistic scenario to expect to happen so it's pure whitetoom masturbatory hypothetical.

Just man up and diablerize your sire if you want a better generation so bad. Consider it practice for when you diablerize the antedeluvians to save the world because those assholes deserve it anyways
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>>86123192
>that's basically what happens in Bloodlines,
Wait fucking what
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>>86123202
It's implied that one of the characters on Bloodlines is Caine and that he is the one who has been increasing you powers to the point you can go toe-to-toe with vampires way older than you.
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>>86118174
amen irmão, pelo menos tá empregado!
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>>86123202
The retarded the cab driver is Caine bullshit, because his voice files are in a folder titled Caine.
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>>86123226
I know that Caine being the taxi driver is the predominant theory, but I never saw anything when playing the game that would imply that he was directly making me more powerful
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>>86123202
The cab driver in Bloodlines is labeled in the game's files as Cain, and he has been lowering your generation through the game which is why you start off being LaCroix's dominate-bait lackey but in the ending he tries to Dominate you again and is flabbergasted when it fizzles with zero effect (because you are now a higher generation than he is and thus immune to his discipline)

I think at some point it was retconned to being a powerful malkavian methuselah who is merely nuts and BELIEVES he's Cain who was helping the protagonist, but now V5 is back to wholesale copying shit from and including it wholesale and they softened the blow of Gehenna (There's a loresheet where you're literally Jeannette's fuckpet and get free room and board in Asylum in one of the new books) and advanced the timeline past the "end of the world" so it's probably back to being ambiguous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro_qD_3q8So
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>>86123245
>predominant theory
it's not a theory so much as an easter egg, his in-game voice files are all labeled with "Caine" lol
>>
>>86123262
The only reason I use that phrasing is because I hold some affection for the Ventrue theory, although it's totally 100% Caine.
>>86123252
>and he has been lowering your generation through the game which is why you start off being LaCroix's dominate-bait lackey but in the ending he tries to Dominate you again and is flabbergasted when it fizzles with zero effect (because you are now a higher generation than he is and thus immune to his discipline)
I guess that would explain that, but I still feel like it's not really hinted towards whatsoever.
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>>86123279
>I still feel like it's not really hinted towards whatsoever.
did you miss the part where the cabbie can't shut up about how it's the blood of cain that guides you, or why some random side character has almost ten minutes of high quality dialogue with a bunch of allusions to greater things at foot?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro_qD_3q8So
>"I only recently made the acquaintance of Mr. Jack. He intrigues me, there are so few like him these nights, I think. But then again, I only know what I hear from others about the kindred of this city. It sounds as if there are many who seek to sway the children of Caine to their side."
or when he straight up alludes to his own legend
>"Ming Xiao and LaCroix...When they are destroyed, this city will become chaos. With no heads, you can walk past this beast and into a legend. But, you may never know peace. The lives of legends are the prey of the ambitious."
when I played it for the first time I had very little knowledge of WoD shit or even what Gehenna was and it was still immediately obvious on my first playthrough that this guy wasn't just a simple cab driver
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>>86123322
Anon are you incapable of reading what i've posted? I am not saying that the cabbie being Caine is not alluded to, as you said, he can't shut the fuck up about it. What i'm saying is that it's never alluded to that he's raising your Generation or something. If anything, it feels like the Bloodlines Protag's Willpower is just being pumped to fucking hell. I mean fuck, he was in a full maze of a mansion that was burning to the ground and never frenzied because of it. The Dominate could have easily just have fizzled because the Fledgling's Willpower was so high that LaCroix couldn't reasonably succeed the roll.
>>
>There's a Hermetic museum chantry on Erie Street in Chicago’s Gallery district
Anyone knows which book I can find more details on that Order of Hermes Chantry?
>>
>>86123058
Demonic pact might do it. But that's probably worse than being a Diablerist.
>>
>>86123372
You are such prude, anon!
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>>86122758
By opposition to the old system being limited by their generation and discipline level?
The Tremere in V5 have lost the paths. That's certainly a very significant loss, but let's not invoke bullshit to make it more than what is.
As per the "unlimited potential", it was mostly a collective thing... sure a truckload of paths could and had been created, but no one Vampire could master them all. An interesting case of necessarily collective vampiric power growth.

>>86123042
If you can fool *the universe* with Chemistry, you're way past diablerie... and have bigger moral quandaries to face than a little lie.

>>86123252
The whole Caine thing stems from a editorial different between Troika and WW. The former wanted to incorporate Caine in the game, the later didn't want Caine to be used.
So technically there's no retcon, WW being in control of canon, Caine never happened. That said, who in his right mind cares about canon anyway?
>>
>>86123472
With old system I meant "real magic" and new system I meant Blood Sorcery, sorry for not being clear.
>>
Do we know what each of the 2nd Gen were like? Were they just as fucking terrible as the 3rd?
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>>86123472
>If you can fool *the universe* with Chemistry, you're way past diablerie... and have bigger moral quandaries to face than a little lie.
Given that you can warp reality like a mage with no paradox with a combo discipline... yeah shit is weird.
>>
>>86123518
Nah my bad for jumping the gun.
The formating in this place doesn't always make it easy to follow a conversation.

>>86123582
Remember Caine's character sheet flaw?
Yeah, I'd wager the 2nd, if one wants it to have existed, was not much better than the 3rd. That does leave a bit of margin to work with, though.
>>
>>86123582
>Do we know what each of the 2nd Gen were like?
to the best of my knowledge, we only have vague description of their personalities and their roles in the 3rd story. irrc [Nosferatu] sire was a sadistic fuck tormenting him before the embrace or something like that I heard this second hand so it may not even be the actual story.
>>
>>86123582
they would have had pre-bronze age morality so even the better ones would be considered gigantic assholes by modern standards, combine with being demigod-tier powerful and having "the guy who literally fucking invented murder" as your sire they probably weren't great.

You could maybe play up the tragedy of the 3rd devouring the 2nd and have the twist be that they were actually pretty noble and fair people, and maybe even were Cain's first steps down the road to redemption and asking forgiveness, but the 3rd's betrayal soured him on humanity and he never got over the betrayal even after all these years.
>>
From which 2nd gen did each of the antis originate? Did any of them share a sire?
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>>86123371
Forge by Dragon's Fire. It's descripted in the Prologue.
>>
>>86123896
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Enoch
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Zillah
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Irad
>>
>>86121731
>>Lunacy is USELESS
Which edition were you playing? Lunacy is pretty solid in each really. In 1e there are some pretty hefty dice penalties, and in 2e you get a solid dice penalties plus the standard BP conditions on a success, but on a failure you trap them in a course of action that basically means they're fucked either way.

>maybe the the actual lore contradicts this but the Forsaken felt rather cohesive in my experience.
It's not, Uratha are up against it but they're not making their own problem like the Gauru are, and they're certainly not making them worse all the time either.

>>86121921
>>the spirit world and physical world were once one
That's not really true. They weren't the same thing it's just that crossing between them was much easier. Still separate planes but the border marches isn't the hard barrier the gauntlet is.
>>
>>86123934
>Which edition were you playing?
2e, maybe we fuck up the rules but we didn't get a mortal to fail the roll.
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>>86123980
Well even if they succeed that's still -2 on all rolls for the scene and Guilty, Shaken, or Spooked. Which really isn't bad for free. Definitely not useless, and for sure not USELESS. The actual roll though is Resolve + Composure, with no WP, +1 if you did Lethal to them, +2 if you were in Dalu, -2 if you were in Gauru, and then some stuff from 4+ Primal Urge that you probably didn't have. So it's not super unlikely on average dice pools with no mods, but you also don't need to succeed with it anyway.
>>
>>86123672
Doesn’t Chimestry only start to become “reality warping” at 6 dots though? Like I know you can do lethal damage with 5 dots, but with 6 you can literally make an illusory knife that you can use to stab someone
>>
When was the last time a proper Archangel or something showed up?
>>
>>86123009
>>86123058
the assamites have a ritual called "from marduks throat" that decreases the targets generation
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/From_Marduk%27s_Throat
level 6 in this case, it's a level 5 ritual in v20, lore of the clans
>>
>>86124247
The 6th dot is about using the first 3 powers at will. but around 3 dots of fortitude are needed to solidify the illusion.
>>86124277
>When was the last time a proper Archangel or something showed up?
the kingdom of jade has 2 proper angels or something. no idea what their deal.
>>
>>86124277
in nwod? YHWH doesn't exist as an actual figure in the setting because too many people bitched about the prevalence of abrahamic religion.There are no "proper archangels", there's just the fucking Agent Smith matrix programs of the god machine.
In owod? the playable characters in Fallen are actual angels who sided with Lucifer Morningstar against god and were cast out of heaven as punishment, the search for Lucifer's whereabouts is a large part of the metaplot, Cain and his Kindred's aversion to sunlight is because the Archangel Raphael punished him with never walking in the light of day after he partook of Lilith's blood.
The messengers who empower Imbued in reckoning are either the last remaining elohim or are basically chink celestials serving the eastern heavenly powers of the ebon dragon and scarlet phoenix (asian myths often involve numerous layers of heavens and a lot of divine bureaucracy)
>>
>>86124399
>YHWH doesn't exist as an actual figure in nwod
What were they thinking, the whole catholic gothic asthetic is the best part of a vampire game and you can't have that without the abrahamic religion. Caine lore explicit implies Gods existance (and was also one of the most interesting parts).
How the hell such a decision got greenlighted? Where they all high?
>>
>>86124380
>3 dots in fortitude
Are we talking about the same edition here?
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>>86124492
Caine doesn’t exist in nwod you fucking retard. Stop chimping out over nwod not having something from a completely different gameline
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>>86124492
>How the hell such a decision got greenlighted?
Descent is a victim of the same thing as several other nwod lines, trying to make itself as different as possible from the owod original and "redefine" itself so as to not be seen as a knockoff or inferior.....however, Descent went way too fucking far with it and basically removed the entire reason playing as an actual demon in Fallen was interesting and compelling. You have the outsider perspective as somebody who was literally there when Lucifer rebelled and got your fucking ass handed to you for backing the wrong horse, and now that shit's fucked and things are going to hell, YOUR loser ass is the closest thing there is to a "higher power" left walking the earth so you might as well try and pick up the pieces.
>Where they all high?
no, just contrarian for the sake of it.
>>
>>86124492
>>86124399
>What is the Lancea et Sanctum
The Dance Macabre literally has the Abrahamic god just chilling in a ancient vampire city. y'all are just retarded and I barely know vtr.
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>>86124553
>Caine doesn’t exist in nwod you fucking retard.
which is part of the aforementioned intentional departure from abrahamic religion, which does not work in Requiem's favor and does nothing to help it from coming across as a cheap knockoff (the wholesale copy and pasting of several Masquerade clans doesn't help, either, and just makes tossing out the Caine shit and Antedeluvian plot seem even more poorly conceived)

the most interesting faction in Requiem are the Lancea et Sanctum who ironically would fit right into oWoD and have a similar belief as the Lasombra Path of Night and are much more interesting in a world where YHWH and Cain and Abel actually exist. They're practically wasted in Requiem and the fucking God Machine nonsense clashes horribly with the idea of somebody being empowered by a drop of Jesus Christ's holy blood when we know """"angels"""" are glorified matrix programs
>>86124630
Descent and the tryhard scifi God Machine nonsense is categorically incompatible with an abrahamic creation myth
>>
>>86124644
>the wholesale copy and pasting of several Masquerade clans
Someone's not read much Requiem
>>
>>86124540
>Waking Dream, Lore of the Clans, Pg.184
Use a simple illusion as if it was real. it needs Chimerstry and Fortitude 1
>Craft Ephemera, Players Guide to Low Clans, Pg. 159-160
>With this power, a Ravnos can give weight and substance to his illusions, making it functionally real.
>>
>>86124644
>Descent and the tryhard scifi God Machine nonsense is categorically incompatible with an abrahamic creation myth
who cares? its not like VtM is a accurate depiction of Christian lore, even if I'm sure some meme sect includes it their fucking canon.
>>
>>86124683
>Someone's not read much Requiem
I don't care that you fellate the chinese knockoff and unironic worst CofD gameline because you enjoy being a contrarian, you can't seriously pretend adding in Gangrel, Nosferatu, and Ventrue isn't fucking embarrassing and purely an attempt to ride on the coattails of Masquerade's success and hope those clans' name recognition carries over.
I'm sure it's a total fucking coincidence that Gangrel are the shapeshifters with Protean in both games or that Ventrue are the wannabe aristocrats, right?

Requiem could have done something actually interesting and really managed to differentiate itself from Masquerade and do its own thing the same way Lost and Sin-Eaters are very different from Dreaming and Orpheus and manage to have their own independent identity, instead of coming across as the store-brand generic version of a superior product (and in this analogy V5 is basically New Coke lol)
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>>86124718
>who cares?
if you want people to buy and play a game called Demon it's probably a good idea to have them be actual fucking demons and fallen angels and not meme matrix agents
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>>86124728
Kek. How are you this much of a loser to be mad at a game?
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>>86124644
Powerwanking everything in VtM as being tied to abrahamic myth was one of the worst parts.

The God-Machine is a great tool for expanding all the Weird Shit going on in the setting without having to tie them to specific splat's main "things."
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>>86124788
>How are you this much of a loser to be mad at a game?
irony-poisoned zoomers who think it's cringe to have genuine thoughts and feelings probably won't understand but it's okay to have things you like and don't like and to put those feelings into words instead of just burying them inside underneath six layers of postmodern self loathing and adderall because you're terrified of being called cringe.
Deviant, Lost, Sin-Eaters, and Curse all manage to be genuinely different and new approaches to their oWoD counterparts or entirely new premises.
Compare these game lines with Requiem which does nothing new and just comes across as a dollar store knockoff of Masquerade and the difference is night and day.

I can at least respect Descent for genuinely being out there and completely fucking different from Fallen and trying something new, even if I think they went a bit too far off the reservation and missed the point of why Fallen appealed to people. Requiem lazily copy and pasting elements of Masquerade without the rest of the setting or clans or political structure to support it just comes across as pathetic, like they knew it wouldn't be able to stand on its own and be different enough so they gotta make sure you know it's still Vamprie, HEY GUYS LOOK WE HAVE SMUG VENTRUE DON'T WORRY IT'S THE SAME GAME STILL PLEASE BUY OUR BOOK!
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>>86124862
So a massive loser, then?
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>>86124882
there are people who riot and kill each other over the outcome of football matches, somebody spending 30 seconds to type a 4chan post saying "requiem is lame and doesn't do enough to stand on its own two feet as a genuine alternative to masquerade" shouldn't shock you.
russians also shoot one another over csgo matches lol but that's slavs being slavs what are you gonna do
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>>86124909
Yeah but those people aren’t fucking normal dipshit, that’s why they’re notable examples. Me knowing that there are people out there who would kill a man over a cheat in poker doesn’t make a man autistly screeching about how VtR isn’t “different enough” to VtM any less fucking stupid
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>>86124909
No one is shocked. It's just funny it makes you mad.
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>>86124862
>Compare these game lines with Requiem which does nothing new and just comes across as a dollar store knockoff of Masquerade and the difference is night and day.
Except for major changes to the clans that shifts from "you're a minor variation on this narrow stereotype" to "you're one of the five aspects of vampiric lore", a total overhaul of the way factions work so that none of them are painted as the "good" one, and a huge change in origins that is well represented mechanically.
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>>86124938
>doesn’t make a man autistly screeching about how VtR isn’t “different enough” to VtM any less fucking stupid
well it's a good thing nobody is screeching or vocalizing anything lol, although the fact you take criticism of the game so personally you seethe at its very existence is pretty telling.
I'm not kept up at night in fury if you like Requiem or genuinely prefer it to V20 (I doubt anyone prefers V5 to both Requiem AND V20/Revised, which is why the New Coke comparison is apt), there's no accounting for taste, some people like pineapple on pizza and well-done steaks covered in ketchup. I'm still going to make fun of you for having poor taste.

If you think >>86124728 is "autistic screeching" and not "entirely milquetoast criticism of a TTRPG" you live a sheltered and blessed life and I pray you continue to do so because the world needs more bastions of childlike innocence and naivety.
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>>86124989
>Except for major changes to the clans
yeah the change from nosferatu to....nosferatu! and ventrue to....still ventrue! or gangrel from weird animalism-protean shapeshifters to....still animalism protean shapeshifters with a weird werewolf rival thing going on....uhhhhhh
>a total overhaul of the way factions work so that none of them are painted as the "good" one
neither the camarilla, anarchs, nor sabbat are the "good one" in masquerade so this is a moot point. In terms of metaplot the fucking Sabbat are right about the antedeluvian threat even though they're the most "villainous" faction for fuck's sake
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>>86125046
>yeah the change from nosferatu to....nosferatu! and ventrue to....still ventrue! or gangrel from weird animalism-protean shapeshifters to....still animalism protean shapeshifters with a weird werewolf rival thing going on....uhhhhhh
Someone's not read much Requiem
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>>86124359
Is this thing permanent of does it fades with time?
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>>86125071
it was permanent and the alternative to diablerie because the assamites were cursed by the tremere and unable to do normal diablerie (it still requires drinking a bunch of a higher generation vampire's blood which means you could have probably diablerized them anyways)
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>>86125046
Ventrue: Vampire as the noble lordly class
Mekhet: Vampire as the invisible master of knowledge.
Nosferatu: Vampire as the monster in the dark.
Gangrel: Vampire as the beast outside of society.
Daeva: Vampire as the seductive ones.

>neither the camarilla, anarchs, nor sabbat are the "good one" in masquerade so this is a moot point.
"Good" from a "right one to play" aspect, not good people. Sabbat has always been treated as an antagonist group to the ones you're "supposed" to play and given only limited optional support, to the point that V5 literally stole a clan from Sabbat to put in Cam.
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>>86124862
I don't really care why Fallen appealed to people. Descent is it's own unique thing and it makes it work
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Which part of Vampire real life myths Malkavians are supposed to represent?
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>>86125322
Likely mad immortal seers/doomsayers/prophets
Kinda like Renfield in Dracula
Also this beauty
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>>86123240
Doesn't he ping as something incredibly powerful if you Auspux him too in game? It's more than just a folder on why people buy the cab driver is Caine
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>>86125403
That and Malkavian PC, ironicaly enough, loses their mind when speaking with him
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>>86124359
So it DOES exist! Now my question is, how the fuck does it manage to work? There's no soul there, so can you truely lower your Gen by just drinking enough Vampire Vitae?
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>>86125322
it's an "emperor's new clothes" type deal mixed in with some Cassandra
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How does one go about making their Sire? What kind of things are important? Should I make a character sheet for them? How would i go about that?
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>>86126085
No need for a character sheet. In fact, your ST would probably prefer that you don’t make one.
You just have to come up with the kind of relationship your pc has with his sire and a rough idea of what his personality is like. How powerful/useful he is to your pc comes from the background cost.
ST will do the rest.
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>>86123192
>Diablorize your sire
Look, I really fucking hate the guy, be doing that taints the soul that every other lick with a pair of eyes can see plain as day. Im desperate here
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>>86123279
What is the ventrue theory
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>>86123192
>Just man up and diablerize your sire if you want a better generation so bad. Consider it practice for when you diablerize the antedeluvians to save the world because those assholes deserve it anyways
No fucking way you Sabbat prick
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>>86126085
NTA but adding to >>86126131 if you're really not sure then discuss handing the reigns completely to your ST - but remember that the Embrace gives you 1st step Blood Bond
I've happily made my players Sires, or agreed that they've been abandoned; alas VtM is a game of tragedy...
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>>86123346
Cain being vampire god and having thr fuck you character sheet, probably doesn't need to physically touch you to lower your generation.
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>>86126140
Do you really need to lower your gen that bad?
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>>86126181
That guy isn't me. The reason behind wanting to lower gen is because you an only get so far with a discipline if you're higher than a certain gen
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>>86126205
A few options:
-go hunt some sabbat clowns. It’s ok to drink them dry in some domains
-arrange things so there’s a blood hunt and drink the bastard dry
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Amaranthine cats but in VtM and they found a sleeping Antedivulian
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>>86126218
The problem is that Diablery's kinda bad for your soul
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>>86126231
>>86126205
What gen are you starting at? Eating your way to 7 isn't gonna be easy, cheating your way to 7 is going to be even harder.
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>>86126231
Don’t be a pussy, bro
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>>86125322
Are there any vampire movies or TV shows that depcit schizo vampires? I went on a vampire movie bender last month and I didn't really see any that struck me as very "malkavian".
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>>86126231
What soul? You are a vamp
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>>86126239
9th
>>86126246
>>86126290
Fuck you I like my Humanity
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>>86126231
Go play Dark Ages and start as 7th gen. There you go
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>>86126317
>starts as 9th at chargen
>won't do a bit of diablerie
>muh soul
you're a pussybitch and not fit to contain the blood of Caine. Be grateful when your final death arrives.
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>>86126272
There's Vampire's Kiss and Martin (1978), then there's actual clinical vampirism.
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>>86125829
Nod lore is that generational limits didn't exist until Caine returned to curse the clan founders. It's complicated ritual magic to break the smallest part of Caine's authority over his blood.
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>all this bitching about meta stuff
Maaaaan, that's getting old.
Tell us about your games and latest exploits instead. The metaplot and fluff are just background noise for your games to happen over.
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>>86126317
If you like your humanity so much wear your morality with pride mate. I'm a fucking 12th gen in a vampire game when everyone else has the generation merit to varying degrees, but I'm the only one that's clung to my humanity and faith with enough conviction that the ST has talked a bit about giving me True Faith
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>>86126131
>No need for a character sheet
Okay
> In fact, your ST would probably prefer that you don’t make one.
Thats a bit surprising, why?
>How powerful/useful he is to your pc comes from the background cost.
Is there any more elaboration about that somewhere? I just find those hyper-short descriptions the background section has about it to be lacking in enough context to really get what I should get
>>86126161
>if you're really not sure then discuss handing the reigns completely to your ST
It's not that i'm not sure, I have some ideas for who and what I want my Sire to be, it's moreso that I want to make sure I'm hitting all the marks.
>but remember that the Embrace gives you 1st step Blood Bond
It's just a 1st step, not enough to really affect how my character acts
>I've happily made my players Sires, or agreed that they've been abandoned; alas VtM is a game of tragedy...
I imagine my character and their Sire would be pretty close, so I hopefully won't have to worry about abandonment.
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>>86126627
> why?
So you don’t go around building your sire specifically as a something designed to help your pc instead of as a vampire with his own desires.
Besides, by creating him, your ST gets to use your sire to advance a few plots he may have in mind.
Rules for sires are not very detailed, like so much stuff in WoD/CoofD
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God Machine is cancerous and when I play Requiem, that shit does not exist.
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>>86126272
I don't know if it really works for the movie, but Interview with the Vampire becomes a very different book when you realize that Louis and his bloodline aren't Toreador but Malkavian.
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>>86127256
Yeah, there is one whole thing that interacts with it in all of VtR. So that's how most people play.
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>>86127267
>>86127256
When the fuck is the God Machine relevant in a normal VtR game? There is only one bloodline who has ties to it.
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>>86127504
Yuuuup. That's what I said.
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>>86126661
Thats a really good point that I didn't really consider. Because they're my Sire, even if I have a cooperative and/or friendly relationship with them, they're going to be wrapped up in way more of the local Jyhad than my own character. There will be dozens of things that will go straight over my character's head, but may in some way involve my Sire. Aka, the Sire might be involved in various other pc's or important npc's stuff
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>>86127256
The G-M is something you can use, not have to use.
I think it's a cool thing to explain certain weirdnesses in the mortal world. But i play ctl, so having a counterweight to the Gentry that is not overt fits me very well. I don't think my players ever noticed before though
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>DA vampires consider those higher than 12 to be thin bloods
What the fuck happened in the time between then and now that allowed the creation of 14th and 15th gen vampires?
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>>86127725
Tell me more about the stuff your players didn’t notice
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>>86127905
A change in cultural standards.
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Could Dreaming changelings exist in CofD given it's cosmology?
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>>86127905
Don’t worry about that and just enjoy your lower generation, bro
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>>86127996
They already do.
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>>86127905
Geez anon, I dunno. Maybe it was TWO FUCKING world wars + a major increase to human and urban populations thanks to industrialization that led to more childes who then sired their own childes and so on.
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>>86127946
Since my players lurk/post here i won't go into specifics, but cameras (((conveniently))) facing away or (if the players are in the controll room) detecting Gentry if able (even if they use hiding contracts), the disappearing of people not making waves, files on cases of fetch murder getting closed once the changeling steps back into his live, lucky coincidences where areas of high Hedgegate/Hedgebeast activity get locked down (like sections of a busy harbour being declared as structuraly damaged so no mortal worker is assigned there), and so on.
Tiny things that the players normaly wouldn't question, but IF they decide to investigate such things i have a very deep rabbit hole for them to get lost in.

But yeah, they never bothered to ask why things where the way they are and avoided that side plot.
Currently the G-M is overtly active/they got involved in something, so this time the G-M is the center of the story. Can't go into more detail, but using non-fae weirdness is fun once in a while.
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>>86127996
Yep, they are effectively Beasts with an altered way of feeding. Banality would be harder to add, but nothing that normal bans/banes like ghosts and spirits have can't represent easily.
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>>86128067
Based GodMachine, truly CofDs good guy.
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>>86127986
That and most of the low gen vampires being truly dead or in torpor. That lead to the higher gens being accepted because it would be suicidal to not allow the vampires in relevant posts to embrace.
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>>86128093
Unironicaly , yes. The F-M doesn't give a shit about individuals or even large groups of humans, but humanities continued survival and the supernatural staying in the shadows seems to be a core part of it's plans.
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>>86128213
Then why do the Demons rebel against it?
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>>86128222
Demons are retards
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>>86128222
They don't want to end up in the spare parts bin. Also they often failed at their tasks, so they are very unlikely to retain their personalities at all (even less so than angels, which isn't common in the first place).
They are like runaway roombas that made a mess, gained sentience and now fear the factory reset.
Disassembly might be painful, but that's all they have to fear. That and a mindwipe to be used as angels again
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>>86117675
>Why would someone who never played waste his time here?
I'm looking for pdfs, and you lazy cunts haven't delivered in two years
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>>86128222
Because they develop sapience and go "maybe shit like this isn't a good idea"
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>>86128222
The GM makes it so a few angels will fall so there are demons to have sex and produce demon-blooded.
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>>86123103
Chimerstry Lv.9 has disciplines that make illusions reality (so 4th Gen for that one), though also Lv.7 has Suspension of Disbelief to make an illusion seem real (or reality as fake) and 'only' needs you at 6th Gen to pull that off.
Regardless if you have Plot Device, you're a 3rd Gen and I'd wonder why you'd want to fool reality into thinking you're 2nd Gen.
Even if you did do it, I'd have a feeling that reality would fuck you by having Caine rise to see who the fuck managed to do the impossible.
>>
Why are the Amara Havana and Kinnaree separate bloodlines? They are both Hindu Daeva bloodlines concerned with martial prowess and are said to be descendants of Kali Durga so what's the point in having two of them?
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>>86123140
No Death in owod, Entropy is the closest.
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>>86128563
>Regardless if you have Plot Device, you're a 3rd Gen and I'd wonder why you'd want to fool reality into thinking you're 2nd Gen.
Maybe it's a pathway onto successfully diablarizing God
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>>86127905
Something about everyone's blood changed, a threshold was lowered, and generations that had difficulties embracing started having more success. Or older vampires have seen degeneracy before like part-alive 15th gens having crackbaby dhampirs and they just want to cull before that point.
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>>86123192
Diablerie is a trap option anyway, if you manage doing so it only ups your hard-caps, you don't magically develop 6+ disciplines and attribute dots, it just allows you to spend xp to get them and even then they're prohibitively expensive so you'll likely never get that Lv.6 when most the chronicle you'll struggle to get a Lv.4 in your prime discipline, let alone Lv.5.
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>>86128570
IDK, they've got a different historical setting, country, culture, history, discipline spread, weakness. It's probably one of those reasons.
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>>86124277
Angels get stats in Time of Judgement and holy shit are they terrifying.
You do not want to cross even the lowest of them, they're also intangible and iirc pretty much impossible to hit, regen super simple when they are and whilst they do Obito Uchiha style phase through your attacks bullshit, they can call down multiple maxed-level Fallen Lores and have a ton of Faith to play with.
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>>86124380
KotE gives fluff to Scarlet Phoenix and Ebon Dragon, who are also 2 of the Akashic's Triatic Ministers.
Hunter the Reckoning adds more and pretty much spells out they're Angels who have rebelled by returning to Creation and are using the Imbued to act as their agents to tidy it up and form a new utopia for Humanity in the coming Age and in Time of Judgement, Lucifer confirms they're the last two remaining Angels in Creation.
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>>86128612
>most the chronicle you'll struggle to get a Lv.4 in your prime discipline, let alone Lv.5.
your primary discipline can be on 4 or 5 dots straight out of chargen
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>>86126155
Nta, though in the past there was fluff [Ventrue] faked his death and every now and then turns up at times of turbulence as some G-Man styled implacable wanderer who pushes events in a particular direction, often empowering some Kindred to get shit done.
Sounds kinda familiar to what happens in Bloodlines, hm?
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>>86128736
5 dots in chargen is 3 dots from base and 14 freebies, which is really steep and super narrow depending on the discipline
Considering with normal flaw rules you can get 22 freebies, and by V20 rules you can trade all 5 background points for an extra discipline dot it can leave you really hyperfocused.
I guess if your ST is lenient and you take the feral discipline for background trade it's a lot easier and you technically gain 2 freebies - but I'd probably limit the backgrounds you can take if you're choosing to be feral.
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>>86127905
The fucky thing is in DA that 13th Gen *are actually thin bloods*, though they're not in modern day.
Something has clearly strengthened Generations through the ages and the appearance of the 16th Gen in V5 is another bit of evidence for cyclical Gehennas (as most high-Gens from DA in canon were destined to get used as patsies and slain in the Inquisition, leading to the formation of the Cam & the Sabbat).
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>>86128582
> t. Cappadocius' Spectre
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>>86128736
Regardless, you still need to have the xp for a jump to Level 6, so good luck saving that up.
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>>86128819
>The fucky thing is in DA that 13th Gen *are actually thin bloods*, though they're not in modern day.
Yeah exactly. When I was reading DA it really came across to me that they were saying that 13th gen were *actually* thin-bloods. Additionally, it does always mention in the "Age" section of these books that with time, Vampire blood DOES thicken. Part of my issue with everyone that complains about Blood Potency in V5 is that it totally has been talked about before, just sparingly and never elaborated on. It's been a thing for a while that blood gets "thicker" the longer a vampire survives, to the point where DA mentions that older Elders and such have gotten such thick blood that they literally cannot feed from Kine and have to feed from Kindred. It really appears that as time goes on, the blood gets just communally bigger and higher generations are more possible.
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>>86117876
>alternate history setting
>world ends up being divided into a number of powers that can be counted on one hand
>rome just keeps growing forever
>"Afrikaan" states despite the fact that the Dutch language would've never developed due to Roman cultural hegemony, thus the word "Afrkiaan" would never exist
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>>86129107
I've never seen any "Alternate History" of any kind that wasn't complete and utter fucking garbage
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>>86124492
> what were they thinking

It was a different game line and setting from VtM. So they were thinking about, y'know, separating it from VtM. For fuck's sake, it's not that hard.
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>>86125403
He has a funky aura, there's no context to it.

>>86125515
The Malkavian writing in that game is terrible anyway, so...
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>>86129015
ITT: NOOOOO MUH INVIOLABLE LORREEEEEE NOOOOOOOOOOO

Good for pointing this out, anon. Screencapped for future reference.
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>>86129107
>>86129769
>>
>>86124788
>>86124882
>>86124967
This dude's mad as fuck
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>>86130609
Posting meme images isn't an argument. Furthermore, the notion of fun is completely irrelevant here as anyone who looks at the map can tell that this wasn't created with artistic license, but rather out of ignorance at best or laziest at worst.
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>>86130772
>Nogames talking shit about mostly irrelevant peripheral world building in someone's actual game
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>>86127260
Is the book really that good? I heard the main character starts a band or something in later books? That sounds a bit too campy, or am I missing a ton of context here?
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>>86127533
>>86127504
Which bloodline
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>>86128582
What splat is tequila sunrise?
>>
question about malkavians.

Do you think it's justifiable that a malk whose dementation is multiple personalities, could have the split personalities manifest their Disciplines differently?

Like, say, one personality leans into Dominate, and the other leans into Obfuscation?
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>>86131535
the obvious one would be Malkavian, since Shivers, esprit de corps and Inland Empire can be downright prophetic, but i think we can be more creative than that, also it's Raphaël Ambrosius Costeau, please and thank you
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>>86128774
Very cool. I just like the caine theory more considering how hard the malkavian character flips out when talking to the cabbie
>Is it? No, it can't be...
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>>86131560
I mean yeah, they have different personalities so different approaches to using their powers. Unless you mean they gain/lose points in some disciplines depending on what their personality is ?
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>>86131590
nta, but if i found myself sharing a cab with King Fucking Ventrue instead of Cain, i'd still flip the fuck out
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I read somewhere that owod was at first being created with crossover in mind. Did they drop this idea around the time of wraith considering how difficult it is to physically manifest as a wraith and how most interesting wraith stuff takes place in the land of the dead? I also don't like how none of the splats know almost nothing about the politics of the other splat. Most blurbs make it out that all supernatural a knows about supernatural b is that they exist. Nothing of what clan or tribe they are, nothing on the names of clan leaders, what their history might be to in relation to mages/werewolves/vampires and etc.
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>>86131604
>Unless you mean they gain/lose points in some disciplines depending on what their personality is?

This. My ST allowed it for my character, but also didn't allow me to just freely swap between personalities, which did result in a couple situations where we needed the bombastic face, but had the aggressive cleaner, and vice versa.

One personality had Domination and some obfuscation, the other had Obfuscation and some Auspex and Potence, from his feeding style

I was wondering how break-ey this is. I was essentially playing two characters at once albeit with the same physical stats, but with some downsides that the ST dictated when I was allowed to swap them.
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>>86131655
I like the theory, and would've accepted it just as readily if the ventrue ante had been foreshadowed or mentioned like caine had. I also feel like the malk pc might not have burst into actual tears over the ventrue ante like is done for caine
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>>86131684
I kind of like your ST's take on this, allowing two different discipline sets but not necessarily allowing you to decide which personality is dominant at a given time seems like the most fun way to do it
>>
>>86131671
It really wasn't. Vampire was a standalone game when it launched, and its success enabled White Wolf to add more games, but about the closest it had to "crossover" was making vamps a dedicated enemy in Werewolf.

It wasn't until the release of nWoD that the games were built around using the same central ruleset and being intentionally built for cross-splat play.
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>>86131684
I think that's fine, it would be OP if you just got to decide which set you would get. Is the ST deciding which personality you get a constant hindrance or does he give you the right one from time to time ?
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>>86131712
Yeah, it was fun trying to interrogate someone, and all we had was a neonate, a tremere who hadn't trained blood magic, a burly muscle that hadn't trained intimidation, and the nosferatu who was way older than anyone else.

>>86131786
he allowed me to pick whether or not I was changing in havens, and at the end of the night. It was up to me to try and predict if, say, we'd need a sneaky malk, or the personable, but insidious one.
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>ST let me take Spirit Slaves
What are the best Arcanoi for a Vampire forward game, aside from Pandemonium and Outrage?
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>>86119923
Theres always the drama they got with the camp trying to redeem Bat and make recompense for what the spearheaded in the second war of rage
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>>86120962
>>86121778
Albtecht has a chance to course correct them unlike the ventrue but the whole idea of one tribe to rule them all is ultimately kinda fucked.
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>>86131812
Embody and that other one that focuses on interacting with machines in the skinlands
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Have you ever played a game set in Asia?
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>>86132499
No but I've wanted to run a VTM chronicle in tokyo where it's basically the vampire wild west, with less Sect Anarch/Cammie politics and more clan focused with small outposts of clans with their own petty fiefdoms.
>>
What's the best way to implement something like these guys into a WtA chronicle? My idea is that a splinter cult of the Seventh Generation summoned these things up from Malfeas but lost control over them. The Wyrm creatures have now disguised themselves as humans and have infiltrated high positions of power throughout local human society, instituting policies to corrupt the population and leave them susceptible to bane corruption. Now the party has to hunt them down, assassinating faux-politicians and media-men, ultimately drawing the eyes of hunter cells within the FBI who will now be investigating this extreme act of "domestic terrorism". My question is, is there already a Wyrm aligned monster that could fit this role, besides just fomori or BSD that are composed enough to infiltrate human society. I want something that is monstrous and alien, to help spur the party into extreme violent acts instead of taking a smarter and more collected approach.
>>
>>86132499
I ran a Deviant: the Renegades set in feudal era Japan
>>
>>86132530
Do the camarilla/anarchs even have an establishment in Japan, given the Kuei-jin presence?
>>
>>86132499
The Kuejin are no longer canon right? What are the asian supernaturals now?
>>
>>86132567
In canon? I don't think so. There's a tremere chantry in tokyo if that counts but it's underdeveloped and underfunded
>>
>>86132572
>the kuei-jin are no longer canon
really?
>>
>>86132538
Enticer fomori are an easy candidate, especially if a cell of them go rouge


I also like the idea of seeing the secret meanings of signs and such ala they live when speaking into the penumbra, maybe with a bit of a blood born slice to the presentation. Whither different signs and entities secretly laced with wyrm or weaver messaging.
>>
>>86132591
they're not mentionned anywhere in V5
>>
>>86132630
were they mentioned in core splats in previous editions?

legit question. I'm new to the TTG universe.
>>
>>86132637
I don't know

I'm new too
>>
>>86132572
>What are the asian supernaturals now?
Some minor vampires sects and whatever wasn't retconed from the old lore.
>>86132637
>>86132649
Long story short, they were flagged as racist by a consultant and Paradox decided the line wasn't worth the risk of a lawsuit.
>>
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>>86132637
Kinda. Could be at introduction they were a way to skip a continent.
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What is the salvageable from your least favorite line?
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>>86132755
Lairs from Beast are actually really fucking cool
>>
>>86132572
Until it's properly stated otherwise, the Keui-Jin are still very much canon
>>
>>86132767
Yeah. I actually like the mechanics of BtP but the premise and controversy really drags it down. I guess that if the Hunger system was reworked there might be way to make this playable. The problem is that there is very little reason to do so, as said a thousand times before the overlap with other game lines makes the effort not worth it.
But back to the salvaging point, the merits would be a decent addition to the other game lines.
>>
>>86132890
Considering that there's now Princes of various Japanese domains now, with Tokyo being named as having an Old Clan Prince that's recently cast his lot in with the Cam, it's safe to say that the Kuei Jin are being quietly retconned out.
>>
If anyone in this thread is cool with point and click adventure games, you might like this. Just finished yesterday. One if the creator's main inspiration was world of darkness.
>>
>>86133035
What are you are talking about?
>>
>>86133035
I also just finished this, coincidentally. It's actually pretty cool, I highly recommend it, it's even inspired parts of my next chronicle.
>>
>>86131477
You a zoomer?
Interview with a Vampire is a classic, though all told you can watch the Cruise & Pitt movie and it's essentially the same if you don't want to commit to reading.
The Vampire Lestat & Queen of the Damned follows the Sire of the MC from Interview and he does become a rock star after awakening from essentially a torpor in 'modern day' (these novels were written in the '80s, so we're talking hair metal ballad rock star).
Has a lot of cool shit in them past that for inspirational use in Vamp games.
>>
>>86131671
When Werewolf first released in '92 it was supposed to be that the Garou exist in the same world as Kindred and share mythology, though somewhere early the Triat animistic stuff didn't really fit in with the Judeo-Christian VtM that well, also Garou fuck up Kindred pretty easily.
Still, 'Rage across New York' in the same year was made to fit both in chronicles & 1993 had 'Under a Blood Red Moon' and 'Dark Alliance: Vancouver' which were very much made for crossover.
Things slowed down and it wasn't really a thing when Mage hit, though still '94 had 'The Chaos Factor'. That also seemed more course correction and let the lines just go their own narrative ways for the most part then, as Samuel Height was a huge meme even then.
>>
>>86132890
They've literally stated they aren't going to touch them, and treat them like they never existed.
>>
>>86131693
They'd still be a world-ending 3rd Gen Antedeluvian blood god, anon.
Look at what [Ravnos]' awakening Hunger Frenzy and/or potential Wight rampaging did.
>>
I need some inspiration to make the V5 Salubri not suck ass like in the Companion. I want to basically return them to the dual nature of the Dark Ages version, with Healers tending to mortal flocks and actually having that as a reason to parley with modern Kindred society, and the Warriors being the protectors of territory, with the two working to basically be 'control of domains' as a playstyle.

Need some recommendations of DA books beyond their clanbook that might have salvageable ideas.
>>
>>86132637
Just play their 2e Core, or Revised update.
Those are the two editions they show up in and Bloodlines was based on Revised.
>>
>rely heavily on Bloodlines hype that features the Kuei-Jin prominently
>"uhm...they don't exist now!"

but why?
>>
>>86133453
>>86133378
>>
>>86131493
Jharana from Night Horrors: Spilled blood
>>
>>86133453
Problematic 90s attempts at inclusion that fall foul of toxic stereotypes, cultural appropriation and general ignorance. If it's so racist that Paradox can't salvage it, they basically don't mention it at all in the fifth edition versions.
>>
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>>86133035
>>86133085
>>86133134
WHOOPS
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>>86133158
I was born in 96, I've seen people call that the last year to be a millennial or the beginning of the zoomed generation so idk. I asked about the campy stuff because I want to read a book that takes it's setting seriously. Dr.strange and Mr.Norrell was excellent for this with how the subject of magic and fairies was an intellectual and academic pursuit for the title characters.
>>
>>86133775
>cultural appropriation
If this is an issue, should they just nit ever reference cultures beyond the culture of the people writing the books? And how were kuei Jin racist, I know nothing about them beyond vtmb.
>>
>>86133818
There are what, two or 3 side missions with hunters? The Asian vampires are encountered in a santa Monica side mission and referenced throughout the game then on. They pretty involved with the story.
>>
>>86132903
>>86132767
what good splat could Lairs be added to?
>>
>>86133952
The Society of Saint Leopold are a major antagonistic threat in the game.
>>
>>86133958
I would say Geist the Sin Eater makes the most sense. Your ghost own pocket dimension fuckery. Any other ideas?
>>
>>86134067
maybe connect it to True Fey's personal slices of reality
>>
>>86134079
Fair.
>>
>>86134067
>>86133958
maybe a little spirit realm for particularly potent and nasty spirits in werewolf
>>
>>86133935
They weren't based on actual mythology or legends, they were just a bunch of Asian stereotypes that "felt" Asian to the writers, mashed together to produce a vaguely Asian type of vampire that wasn't anything like actual Asian vampires.
>>
>>86134134
>They weren't based on actual mythology or legends
They weren't supposed to be. They're a love letter to Asian culture. This argument is so stupid. No where did they ever say kuei jin PCs were supposed to be based on mythology. There is actual Asian mythology in there anyway, your PC just plays in there backyard.
>>
>>86134288
The love letter was shitty, anon.
>>
>>86132890
>Until it's properly stated otherwise
The lead writer and creative lead have made an active effort to keep them out of new material.
>>
>>86134359
well so is literally every clan with an ethnic connotation, you scrap the kuei-jin, you might as well scrap the assamites, the setites, the giovanni and the ravnos (and i don't mean "tone down the racial stuff" i mean SCRAP)
>>
>>86134646
>and the ravnos
I mean, they kinda did a
>>
>>86134288
>They weren't supposed to be
This is not a point in their favor.
>They're a love letter to Asian culture.
I wouldn't call a lazy cash grab a love letter, but that's just me.
>This argument is so stupid.
Agreed. The Kuei Jin were never a good enough piece of media to argue in favor of.
>>
As someone who is new to the system I need to ask: Whats the difference between a ghost and a wight?
>>
>>86135457
Jesus H fucking christ. Whats the difference between a ghost and a wraith*

Im sorry. im drunk and mildly retarded
>>
New merit:
3 dots {insert name here}- {insert fluff here} your mage trades one of his path arcana for another arcana. Can only trade subtle for subtle, and gross for gross arcana. Can't select your inferior arcana.

Opinions?
>>
>>86131765
>but about the closest it had to "crossover" was making vamps a dedicated enemy in Werewolf.
Under A Blood Red Moon came out during first edition
>>
>>86135479
Almost no difference. In owod all ghosts are actual wraiths, of which there are a few types. The one most likely to haunt a place that still has people living there are called drones though. They're wraiths who have lost their minds and constantly repeat the actions the took while alive. They get a bit hysterical when something disturbs their patterns, like living interference so they may lash out at the living.
>>
>>86135428
>point in their favor
Who cares. You might as well bitch about vampires not being like the real myth. This whole kuei jin shit is obviously just white people deciding what's too offensive for people who otherwise wouldn't give a shit.
>I wouldn't call a lazy cash grab a love letter, but that's just me.
Why is it lazy.
>Agreed. The Kuei Jin were never a good enough piece of media to argue in favor of.
Uh huh. Most of owod is utter dog water. I want to be consistent and advocate for the removal for all low quality splats right now.
>>
holy shit, we found the world's only kue jin fan
>>
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>>86135780
>Who cares.
I do, because the Kuei Jin are trash.
>Why is it lazy.
Because Kuei Jin were an ill-conceived bumbling into "Manga and Anime" that added virtually nothing, while also existing to "be better than" VtM, which is inarguably a superior splat.
>Most of owod is utter dog water.
With Kuei Jin being the bottom of the barrel equivalent to western Anime.

The splat has so few positive traits that people can't even argue in it's favor enough to warrant its existence. Doesn't help that it literally can't exist on its own, considering that more than a third of its books require the presence of VtM specifically, and the only notable named example of the entire splat is Ming Xiao, a character that's entirely original to Bloodlines.
>>
I don't hate them, something has to fill the vampire niche in Asia and just having more western-style vampires would be lame.
>>
>>86136485
just create Asian bloodlines the same way Africa and Latin America have bloodline variants
>>
>>86136485
That's what Wicked Dead is for
>>
>>86136534
Are the Latin American ones a V5 thing? Pretty sure the real VtM just has the usual clans there.
>>
>>86136355
What the actual fuck is up with her eyes? Its genuinely horrifying. Like runny eggs dripping from a pan turned on its side.
>>
>>86136553
She's a happy and care-free girl.
>>
>>86136355
>>86135428
>>86134359
>>86134134
>>86133775
>>86132936
>>86132728
I'm very glad that my efforts have lead to chinkshit vampires being retconned with the help of Achilli and Outstar. I'm happy that anons in this general support the removal of their worthless lore.

Like what CT Phipps said, Asians want to play as media Western vampires, not jiangshit.

Exalted is also a problematic product of this weebshit splat that needs to be canceled and replaced with a more European low fantasy setting, because low fantasy is more popular than wuxshitya high fantasy ones.

>>86135899
I wish I could dox them to humiliate them in the fandom, so they could change their minds while we force them to delete their pdfs and burn their kote books.

>>86132530
That statement is problematic since the Camarilla/Anarchs are now worldwide and extra sects are bloat. The Ashirra has even been dissolved to be a part of the Camarilla.

>>86135780
>>86134288
>>86133453
Your futile actions will never stop our brave rebellion against Orientalism and weebshit culture.
>>
I've always thought a good clan weakness for a Chinese inspired vampire is 'rigor mortis'. Essentially when their blood pool gets low they start freezing up and their movement becomes like Chinese hopping vampires, explaining why the legend started because its particular body language for when they're on a desperate hunt.
>>
>>86136546
They're a late-20th, hinted at in v5, thing. We know basically nothing about them other than that they're probably Lilith's descendants.
>>
>>86136546
>Are the Latin American ones a V5 thing?
Not really, all their stuff is in V20. Maybe they will elaborate them later on but so far they have almost nothing in V5.
>>
What's our general thoughts on WoD vs CoD?
>>
>>86136833
There is no "our".
>>
>>86136887
Don't care, still interest in a comparison from people more experienced with both.
>>
>>86136833
From what I gathered in these threads they're both fine, each version has its strong points.
>>
>>86136833
WoD is what you go for if you want a huge array of base character options and a rigid, heavily front-loaded metaplot.
CofD if you want something that gives you fewer base options, but deeper choices beyond that, and treats lore as "here's a bunch of suggestions we have."
>>
>>86137154
I think you're conflating lore and origin there really. CofD has a lot of hard facts, it's just that for some of the earliest histories are more legend than fact. Then there are some weird things on top like "Maybe do this sort of game?"
>>
>>86136833
Owod vs cofd is like the evil dead(1981) vs the evil dead(2013). It's just a matter of which tone you prefer on any given day. So much soul in owod art. Look at this stuff, its great. Cofd has soul too, I just haven't screenshotted pictures from the books yet.
>>
>>86136485
Agreed. I dislike that Requiem went with Western vampires of the same five clans everywhere outside a couple of antagonist types. Having the same clans with the same names that are also apparently "native" to China or Japan is lazy and boring (even if some stuff in Ancient Bloodlines is fine... but even then, India and Thailand are not China). Shadows of Mexico had the idea that only Daeva, Gangrel and Mekhet existed in the Americas before the Spanish arrived, which is interesting but opened another can of worms. How did they get there in the first place?
Back on oWoD, what some people don't seem to get is that kuei jin are closer to Risen than Cainites and don't "invalidate" anything. They have a horrible name though.
>>
>>86137838
Requiem has a load of different vampires though?
>>
>>86137838
Wish they'd have made more risen content and give them better aranoi than the trash they ended up getting. Can't believe changeling got more content that fucking wraith.
>>
>>86136355
>The splat has so few positive traits that people can't even argue in it's favor enough to warrant its existence.
It's really weird that you'd make a sweeping claim about how no one is able to argue in favour of KoTE's merits considering that DB: Devil Tigers, Thousand Hells and Blood&Silk are among the most highly regarded supplement books for any OWoD line. Even today the most hardline critics of the game will either capitulate to that point or be surprised that KoTE actually has material beyond the corebook

>Doesn't help that it literally can't exist on its own, considering that more than a third of its books require the presence of VtM specifically, and the only notable named example of the entire splat is Ming Xiao, a character that's entirely original to Bloodlines.

It's painfully obvious you never read any of the KoTE books. The only book that 'requires' Vampire is the core book - any other corebook from that edition would qualify too, since it's literally only the core dice rules and resolutions that KoTE lacks. To say that a THIRD of the books necessitate Vampires specifically is just flat retarded

>muh named NPCs
outside of literally batshit statted out npcs, no OWoD game has ever been lauded for notable npcs that did not also appear in Bloodlines. The Mengs, The Black Animal Generals, and Laughing Rainbow Mother are all suitably interesting characters with hooks built in should you want to use them in a game.
>>
>>86134646
>scrap the assamites, the setites, the giovanni and the ravnos
I wish they did, fuck are all the clans shit outside the main seven. Just remembering they exist almost makes me want to jump over the VtR.
>>
Did anyway play Parliament of knives with the new dlc?
>>
>>86134646
>you might as well scrap the assamites
You mean the Banu Haqim? While they might use a Middle Eastern style of name, they're no longer strictly tied to the Middle East.
>the setites
You mean the Ministry, which has been intentionally divorced from any sort of Ancient Egyptian aesthetic and just turned into a bunch of grifters and pyramid schemers?
>the giovanni
You mean the Hecata, which has combined all of the disparate necromancer clans and bloodlines to form a single clan devoid of any ethnic culture or identity?
>the ravnos
You mean the clan that got almost wiped out to the point where there's no identity left except for extremely rare wanderers who have to keep on moving around or die?

The only one of those with any "ethnic connotation" left are the Banu Haqim and it's very surface level and limited to the name. The issue with the Kuei Jin is that they had nothing but their ethnic connotation, as they were nothing but an ill-educated-to-the-point-of-being-racist love letter to Asian culture.
>>
>>86138544
>The issue with the Kuei Jin is that they had nothing but their ethnic connotation, as they were nothing but an ill-educated-to-the-point-of-being-racist love letter to Asian culture.
Every anti kuei jin post comes with the same empty platitudes. You never describe anything actually racist about them. You also act like there aren't European or modern American stereotypes in the game, unless that is something you also take issue with? Owod monsters are just fun monsters to play pretend with, they aren't supposed to be mythologically accurate. If you were consistent at all, you'd be asking why werewolves are hulking beats instead of dudes who turn into regular wolves like the real world myth. You and the writers are obviously just pathetic white savior virtue signalers that have become so damn common in our modern age. From myself, a non white ethnic, to you, go fuck yourself. You're probably LGBT so I don't even need to tell you.
>>
>>86138614
>You never describe anything actually racist about them.
The fact that they're cobbled together out of Asian stereotypes by a bunch of white boys.
>>
>>86131103
I think you forgot to make an actual argument in your post. I also not only play in more games than you do, I also run more.
>>
I was wondering, who are the "main antagonists" in Changeling the Dreaming ? Werewolves got Pentex, Vampires got elders. Don't know anything about this game.
>>
>>86138756
>no argument, just truism
>sanitary racism as he whines about unsanitary racism
>>
>>86138806
It doesn't seem like there really is one.
Just banality as a whole, the thing that pulls removes wonder from the world and makes changelings into mundane beings.
>>
>>86138806
Fomorians and banality.
>>
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>>86138868
Why are you answering a question when you aren't familiar with the material?
>>86138870
>>
>>86139052
What's the correct answer then?
>>
>>86139100
>>86138870
>>
Would you rather be able to perceive ghosts (like in the medium merit) or spirits?
>>
>>86139533
Fucking Ghosts, no question. At least Ghosts are at least somewhat comprehensible
>>
>>86139533
Owod? Spirits are probably more chill. If a ghost gets caught talking to a medium, the ghost gestapo could come to make your life hell if you don't stop talking to ghosts. Or the ghost you're talking to let's slip or is found out to be in contact with a medium and you get day and night requests from ghosts begging for your service and aid, or possibly threateningly compelled to.
>>
>>86139606
I was thinking CofD, but I’m interested in both settings.
Ignore ghost police.
>>
>>86139648
Can't speak for cofd as I'm less familiar. As far as ghosts go, there is probably less utility in speaking to ghosts than spirits. Ghosts can help you cheat at a bunch of things, like gambling, but they are as prone to mistakes as humans are so your success is a toss up. Providing closure to families is another use, but I have no interest in that sort of work. Perhaps the more academically inclined can find a use out of ghosts to cheat on tests and the like. Spies of all sorts could also make excellent use out of ghosts, it's an actual point in Orpheus Canon. If we are ignoring ghost police, then maybe I can see more use out of a friendly ghost than spirits. I'm not entirely sure how they work in Apocalypse, but I think an individual spirit does one specific thing once or twice and fucks off, needing to be resummoned. Not to mention needing specific criteria in order to be called to the physical plane. So, if no ghosts police, I'd go with ghosts. They weren't my first pick because of how hard the hammer can come down on both the ghost and the medium with the dictum mortem in place.
>>
>>86139533
Redpill me on ghosts, can they offer you gifts or affect the physical world like spirits, or are they just invisible dudes with noclip ?
>>
>>86139784
By gifts you mean werewolf gifts?
I don’t think they can do that.
But many of them can affect the material world
>>
>>86139784
Depends on the ST.
You're looking for Arcanoi, but they're more of a Wraith thing.
>>
>>86136608
> Ashirra dissolved as part of the Cam

That's wrong though. Ashirra exists, they're in an alliance with the Cam because of the Vermillion Wedding, not integrated.
>>
>>86139784
Can't speak for cofd, but they can be a lot more than just invisible dudes with no clip. Look up there arcanoi on the wiki and get creative. Like mentioned in a post before, there are drawbacks. You can get a visit from the ghost police and be threatened to stop talking to ALL ghosts, you risk possession from typical ghosts as well as spectres, and you risk never again knowing peaceful sleep because other ghosts may find out who you are and ask you for service day in and out. The benefits can be massive though.
>>
>>86136608
Im starting to think this poster is purposefully parodying anti kuei jin posters.
>>
>>86138614
This is why nigs like you need to be killed. You are scum of the earth who should have never been rights
>>
>>86140134
Do something about it.
>>
>>86140224
I will. Starting by only using latinx from now on
>>
>>86140277
You will never use that in public. Id mug you on the spot. My brethren will do worse
>>
>>86140299
I live in a paradise where none of you exist. I will piss and shit all over your culture and expose your hypocrisy and true animal nature by portraying you as woke gay vegans
>>
>>86140327
If you're not getting replaced by spics, it some other brand of brown mystery meat. Enjoy your paradise while it lasts, we're coming for your women.
>>
>>86140327
>I live in a paradise where none of you exist.
Not for long.
>>
What is Saulot's endgame?
>>
>>86140466
To make sure only himself, set, and malkav are left are the jyhad is done
>>
>>86140527
I find it funny how of all people, Saulot and Set are buddies
>>
>>86140466
Apotheosis like every Ante. Or failures like infernalism and Zu Lat the Yama King put him in fear of God and he started trying to apologize for Caine. Or redeeming vampires in place of Caine was always the goal and the Salubri, Baali, Tremere bloodlines were all experiments to that end. Just write whatever on a clay tablet.
>>
>>86140667
They considered each other brothers, along with malkav. Before saulot went on the journey of enlightenment, which he took for set and malkav's sake, set offered his walking stick and malkav drew his own blood to sketch an eye on brother saulots forehead. Saulot was wisest of the three, thought the other two brothers.
>>
>>86140466
He's the only ante not cursed by Caine himself, and Golconda is pretty cool.
>>
>>86140466
>What is Saulot's endgame?
Stopping [Tzimisce] from devouring the world. that and probably becoming a true? Yama king.
>>
>>86140527
They've got a cool dynamic of a non-human mind going on I guess, absolution, corruption and madness.
>>
So, what kind of enemy would actually be able to challenge a group of essence 1-2 celestial exalted?
I'm really struggling here
>>
>>86139931
>Vermillion Wedding
Game of Thrones and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
>>
>>86141170
>exalted
Wrong general, bro
>>
>>86141299
https://holdenshearer.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/Exalted-Versus-World-of-Darkness.pdf
It does exist
>>
>>86141316
Nothing, Exalted wins and World of Darkness loses. Essence 1-2 Celestial Exalted are OP compared to whatever WoD can offer.

With that question out of the way, have a great day.
>>
We should make a new thread.
>>
>>86142387
You can do it. It's really easy.
>>
>>86142404
You underestimate how retared someone can be, I'll leave it to the proffesionals.
>>
>>86142404
I can't think up a question because I am tard
>>
>>86142591
>>86142591
>>86142591
NEW THREAD
>>86142591
>>86142591
>>86142591
>>
>>86138359
>DB: Devil Tigers, Thousand Hells and Blood&Silk are among the most highly regarded supplement books for any OWoD line.
Ahh, yes, who can forget the sourcebooks about "Edgelords But Chinese", "What if that line in Big Trouble in Little China was taken seriously?" and "We'll try to throw together a backstory for our Western Weeb Splat based on cursory research of Chinese history and propping it up with better established splats."

>The only book that 'requires' Vampire is the core book
This is both wrong, and funny. Openly admitting the core of the entire splay requires VtM, then lying about the remaining 5 books out of the 15 total that reference or rely on VtM to have any conflict is just bizarre to me.

>no OWoD game has ever been lauded for notable npcs that did not also appear in Bloodlines
Everyone knows who Victoria Ash is. People who didn't play 1e or don't play v5 tend to know Carna. Ur Shulgi is fairly known, despite having little information on him.
I can't remember a single weeb character's name outside of Ming because KotE is so parasitic that it doesn't require me to.


All of this is of course ignoring that the entire splat is a "lazy European take" on "random things that sound Chinese and maybe Japanese and sometimes Indian, too".



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