>played an 87% game against a GM>lost>spergs out, drops out of the tournament and proceeds to watch the kids career burn to the groundhe's literally worse than redditmure
>makes a living playing a gameThere is literally no adult that can be described as such that isn't a complete and total faggot.
>>86082165More like Anus Fecalson amirite
>>86082165This faggot should be lifetime banned from the game.
i'm extremely glad i don't understand a single thing in this thread
>As of 2016, Carlsen identifies as a social democrat and mostly follows a vegetarian dietlol not surprising he's a bitch.
>>86086052>Reigning King Faggot of Chess loses his winning streak to some kid nobody has heard of>instead of celebrating the new talent he instead throws a tantrum about it like a bitch
>>86086066I mean, he has always been a petty bitch. Now if he celebrated the new talent, that would be a huge shock.
I don't think anything could ruin chess for me more than the realization that the players are autists who literally just memorize board states and follow mental flowcharts.Movies and TV always portray chess as this high IQ game for tactical geniuses, so it was demystifying to find out how untrue that is.
I was right anout Lance Armstrong and Magnus being shitty people and frauds. Its tough being right over long term but its a weight I can carry
>>86087616That's pretty much every game though. Eventually the meta autists win. The only games that are immune to it are the ones nobody cares about enough to master. If you consider how old chess is and how popular it is it's pretty impressive how high the bar for mastery still is, it's not like a strategy video game where any idiot can learn the most efficient rush for the current patch and be able to beat anyone.
>>86087616I've seen chessfags try to defend it but yeah.A turn-based strategy game is kinda shit if the first like, 20 turns are just a mental checklist followed by checking for memorized boardstates.Chess is more fun when its two players have a very weak understanding of it.
>>86087616This is why I like games with hidden information, they just feel more creative to me.
thoughts on using anal morse code to win a chess tournament?
>>86089182I sincerely doubt he did that. Even if he did cheat. it definitely wasn't with anal beads.I think it's just advanced cope from Fagnus and his dick suckers.For some reason, it's common on the internet to write up elaborate sexual fantasies about people you hate, and this is exactly in line with that.
>>86087616It is really just that. There was a test ran between average people and GMs where they'd be asked to see board states for a few seconds and count how many pieces they'd memorize. If it was a known position, the GMs would memorize almost all the pieces, normal people would memorize like 2 or 3 pieces. But if it was some random scramble of pieces impossible to do irl, they'd get the same results as average joes who never played chess. They're just memorization autists.
>>86082224A reasonable assessment as long as games like football - either kind - basketball, baseball, hockey and such are included.
>>86087807>Eventually the meta autists win.I thought I was safe from this by selecting Strongman as my thing to watch. Now the reigning champion for the 2nd year in a row is a literal giant autist, obsessed with lifting perfectly round stones, because Atlas Stones has been the meta for 12 years.
>>86089754Man. I wish football players only got up to boring shit like this.
>>86087807>The only games that are immune to it are the ones nobody cares about enough to masterProvide a few examples please?
>>86088466Same! It puts your creative reactive thinking and risk management to testThe moment I begin to understand a game in terms of "follow this flowchart of actions exactly for success" my interest just vanishes, never to be seen again
>>86088466>>86089837I find games most enjoyable when you still don't understand them.As soon as you start to learn the system in-depth, then any further "improvement" would either be monotonous practice or painful memorization of pre-made, meta strategies.Its why one of my favorite video games is SS13, because there's so much autistic information and mechanics to learn, and you never know when some of it might come up.Shame most tabletop games avoid this though, since autistic rulesets tend to put people off. Closest to the autistic detail I'd want that I know of is PF 1e, and it has some issues.
>>86087616Just don't play solved games, or at least play games that involve random chance.
>>86089815Just so you can master them and ruin everybody’s fun? Admit your evil plans!
>>86087616Every game of skill requires some memorization of board states. If it didn't, then experience would be of no value. The same criticism can be levied against fighting games (which require muscle memory) and RTS games, which have similar build order timings/flowchart memorization. Even in real war, tacticians must memorize general battlefield states to know when to push and when to retreat. Just because chess requires more memorization than other competitive fields doesn't mean the ability to read the opponents and mindgame them isn't important. Also, the ability to see novel strategies and map out how the enemy will likely move is also important, which is why chess prodigies are identified as such as children, long before they've had a chance to study board states.
>>86086066Not that big of a surprise that he's acting childish as he has a lot to lose but what's weird are all of the simps that just can't accept that maybe he isn't as strong of a player as he once was. No, it must be that someone shoved beads up their ass to win.
>>86095385He is still strong. His 53-win streak shows that. Even Nemann said after the game that he was just lucky to know the opening Carlsen played that day. The longer it takes and the more Carlsen behaves like a child, the more it'll hurt his reputation.
ITT: People who have never been good at anything disparaging chess for requiring effort to be good.Yeah? That's the point?>chess is just memorization!Play e3 as your first move, you will be out of anyone's preparation in an objectively even position.
>>86096025>disparaging chess for requiring effort to be good.i prefer games that require talent. but i guess the appeal of chess is that anyone who isn't mentally impaired can get to a high leveli used to play counter strike, which has the same appeal. memorizing recoil patterns in a video game is an utterly braindead activity, but it lets people feel like they're good at something for once.
>>86096961cs is more about memorizing timings and betting on which skew and what loadouts the enemy tookyou run the same minutelong doorkicker simulation up to 25 times with minor variationsthe shooting is tertiary to knowing who can be where and when for optimized movement and pressure>guess wrong angle avoiding a peek and lose movespeed having primary out over knife and know the guy who is one powerposition over is flanking because you were one hallway late to pressure him>misjudge the mid rotation and loadout and get caught by an optimal range econ buy in a transitory path and lose your buy and the round to an uncontested flank>fail to recognize the habitual routing of your counterpart and get rolled every round>this is all before we get into gear like smokes and flashesthe shooting aspect is almost incidental and was far more important in 1.6 than GO where the game is won or lost on a tactical level
He's completely buckbroken. Any rat still on the Fagnus/Niggermurs ship needs to jump off fast.
>>86096961>i prefer games that require talent. but i guess the appeal of chess is that anyone who isn't mentally impaired can get to a high levelt. someone who has never and will never be good at anythingnothing requires "talent". everything worth doing in this world is hard as fuck. ask any "talented" person in any field how much they had to practice, you will be shocked.
>>86097905Some people can work incredibly hard at things and do badly at them. Magnus got beaten by someone with less experience than him. This is what humans call talent. While hard work is incredibly important, some people are naturally better than some other people at some things. You could not train a stupid child to beat a GM no matter how early you start teaching them to play.
>>86095451I want him to keep tantruming because it's funnier.
>>86087807Yes, but because chess has been around so long, I can agree with that anon and say that it and a few other very old games (Go, Shogi) exist in this weird state where the meta-game and meta-data is more important than the game itself in some weird way. Like, yes, if given time the meta-monger will "Solve" the game, but very few games have had the combination of social prestige, time, and attention Chess has.
>>86087616You're actually wrong though and you couldn't beat a 1000 elo player
>>86088416The % of chess games played on earth between players who don't have the first 20 moves memorized would be 99.9999999% or so Real big issue
>>86089837>if there's any learning in a game to improve my interest vanishes, never to be seen again Stupidity
>>86096961>I prefer games that require talentAnd which of these are you good at?
>>86089923to me the most enjoyable part is when you grind for a while and get a certain amount of mastery and start to get the sense that it's like anon was saying here >>86087616 where it seems like the game is narrowing to a point, and then you cross a kind of skill event-horizon and it opens back up in to a vista of exploration again. it's like the reverse of a dunning kruger curve where being before a certain point prevents you seeing the forest for the trees. I know that happened to me with go before I got dan rank on kgs. maybe it's similar with chess people, I dunno.
>>86082165We don't have enough info yet.
>>86087616It's fun to go to tournaments and throw random moves at some 2100 kid and watch them melt down trying to figure out which set you're playing.I'm never going to make GM, so this is a great way for me to amuse myself.
>>86086066Carlsen has always been a little bitch when it comes to losing or whenever the perception oh him losing rears itself in his mind. How was it any surprise that he'd throw such a huge hissy fit over losing after having a nearly 60 game winning streak. Also:>Goes up against someone he lost to two weeks ago>Colors and starting turns are swapped this time around>decides to play exactly like his opponent did the last time he played against him>Opponent sees this and decides to copy Carlsen's moves from their previous game>Carlsen rage quits and vaguely hints at his opponent cheating because he can't stand the banterDude needs to fucking chill and touch grass
>>86099389>It's fun to go to tournaments and throw random moves at some 2100 kid and watch them melt down trying to figure out which set you're playing.What does this even mean?
>chess e-celebs defending Fagnus>implying his opponent was cheating>nobody will suggest howwhy do they dickride him so hard? why is chess so gay?
>>86099954They said he had a vibrating computer in his ass.
>>86099954hans is a shit talking incel + a young up-and-comer. he never stood a chance against established chess divas. most of them are going after him for personal reasons. they don't even know or care if he cheated. magnus knew this would happen, which is why he just lit the fire, sat back, and let everyone else spread it.
>>86087616lol, it's probably the least tactical game ever made at this point. it's less outsmarting and more trying not to make a blunder that stockfish would rate as a -4 value move and hoping you can spot your opponent making one
>>86099954Chess seems to be more about sucking off the players ala every other kind of sport than actually anything to do with the game itself. Game of kings my arse
>>86099165>you don't enjoy rotely following the same, optimal set of actions? Surely you must be too stupid to remember them
I've said it before, but Hans should get the woke mob going after Magnus: "Magnus is on record claiming to be a Trump fan, and although I'll always admire his chess talent, my fear is that the next target for his abuse of power won't be someone like me who's made mistakes and who can take the heat but someone who's a member of a vulnerable demographic."
>>86099947Chess players don't think ahead, and only play by memorizing board states.Against a completely incompetent opponent, they have no idea what to do because they're straying from normal board states.
>>86099243I'd imagine go isn't similar, seeing as it has far too many possible board states to memorise.Also how did you get good at go? Just the lose one hundred games meme?
Not my fault Fagnus has been buckbroken by a 2600, sold his failing businesses to his jewish puppetmaster Danny (((Rensch))) for pennies on the dollar, and vacated his world title. If you ignore him, which is easy to do since he's a washed retard at this point, chess is fine.
>>86102916But that isn't true, your story is completely fake lol
>>86103363I'm sorry, are you the national/international master here or am I?You get to this level by memorizing sequences of play. Not because you're necessarily trying to use them yourself, but because you need to understand how to defend against the result of the sequence.Chess is a game that rewards rote memorization. Playing a non-sequence of moves is almost always a losing strategy, but it can throw your opponent into a panic if they can't figure out you're not actually playing a sequence.I can afford to lose, because as noted, I'm not going to make GM.
>>86104352>I'm sorry, are you the national/international master here or am I?Chances are that none of you are. You can obviously evaluate a position you haven't seen before; that's how the whole opening theory has been growing since the 15th century. You still have the "opening novelties" in most grandmasters games; the difference between them and the amateurs is that they face them at move 15th not 3rd.
>>86104352You don't have a rating as you don't play chess. Claiming that you play random moves vs 2100 players and beat them because they can only play against what they're familiar with is a fabrication. Chesslet seethers really are bizarre.
>>86096025but opening with E3 is what every noob does since you can move out your queen and rookt. plays chess during lunch break
>>86089923A lot of games change in time though, and figuring out the meta every three to six months is part of the fun for me. TCGs are fun that way. RPGs are mostly random anyways, and I prefer RPGs where builds can be equally fun and efficient. A certain amount of swinginess where you can fail and overly specializing fuck's with you in other places while being a jack of all trades makes you not special in anything. There are a few RPGs I've played. Board games like that as well. I have my ownp preferences. Fireball island, the Betrayal at games, Tokaido, Camel up... I like SOME chess style games. Stuff like some Pai Sho variants (especially those that place tiles as part of the game rather than a preset game). Chess, Chinese chess, Shogi, and the like don't really do it for me. Shogi maybe more than the others, but even that's less than others.>>86097905Talent is more important. Someone who is talented and puts some work in will ALWAYS be better than someone who isn't. Of course a lot of talented people waste their talent BECAUSE they're talented and put no work in. It's a balance of things really. I wasted one of my talents but worked on another and have made a living using it.
>>86087653All your penis size went to brain size.
>>86106408Have you ever tried go/baduk/weiqi? I found it after the deepmind event where an AI beat a top human professional and found it way more enjoyable than chess cause the opening theory is way more abstract comparatively.
>>86088466>>86089837Hidden information games can be just as memorization heavy. There's still a Nash equilibrium and optimal strategy to memorize. Poker is as solved as chess at this point.
>>86107033So how do we make a game that is inherently unsolvable?
>>86100084Elon Musk said that
>>86082165Pretty sure he's a sperg, to become so good you gotta be autistic
>>86107064Chess and poker are both unsolved. All of these gripes are just bizarre, if you go online and play chess you're not playing a solved game, you could practice for decades at any of these games and not even dip your foot in the ocean of solving them.
Fagnus might be a bitch but at least he isn't a literal cheater. Anyone on the side of Niemann is a fraud and a disappointment to the game itself.
>>86089754Those aren't games, they're sports. If an 18 year old and 87 year old can compete at an equal level, it's a game. If they can't, it's a sport.
>>86087616This is true, which is why Bobby Fischer wanted to remake the game to where no one would have memorized it. I used to play regularly online like 7-8 years ago and back then once you got to class A you'd face autists who memorized the board almost exclusively. Thinking back on it, I'm surprised I got that far considering I was only familiar with a few 3-5 move openings
>>86107033>Poker is as solved as chess at this point.Not if you use a non-standard deck.
>>86108207lol, by your definition tag and musical chairs are sports while golf and NASCAR racing are games
Regardless of if he cheated in this tournament or not, Hans shouldn't be allowed to play in major tournaments again. It speaks volumes about the corrupt nature of the top level chess organizations, that a guy can cheat his way into playing the biggest tournaments. It makes chess look worse than it already does>inb4 how will hans redeem himself?By playing more minor tournaments where top level players don't show up. Only after he can prove by over the table success alone should he be allowed back into major tournaments
>>86109191If he can beat the ass of chess's top guy so hard he runs away crying at the start of their rematch he deserves to be there.
>>86087616Mtg is probably higher IQ than chess.
>>86107033>Poker is as solved as chessThe amount of information that you have available at any given time is variable though. Even if you know how to run the odds like a real mathematician, sometimes chance will slap you across the face or your opponent will be just as big brain as you and playing "optimally" won't be enough to guarantee a win.
>>86109214Of course, MTG relies upon card combos, risk management, and probability stacking.Chess is a two player puzzle game where the only challenge is remembering how to solve each puzzle.Which is why they have been forced to add time pressure to try to make it entertaining, it's basically Tetris without the skill
>>86088466>>86089837>>86096961"Hidden Information" is what chess actually utilizes a lot of. You can't read your opponent's mind.The "flow chart" is essential to ANY game. Knowing the flow chart sounds simple, but the reason you aren't an Airbus Pilot is because that shit takes literally decades to learn.Passenger Airline Pilot is a lifetime career, the most reliable ones are in their middle ages, easily into their 50s, because the sheer amount of information you need to learn and remember off by heart requires lifetime dedication. And that's just for ONE PLANE!Chess at it's highest level is more complex than flying a plane. Any game uses "hidden information" in the same way that chess does, but Counter Strike hasn't been around for generations of history.Even then, the flow chart comes into play for Counter Strike, with head glitch and shit, or learning to smoke throw through a map seam in the sky, learning how to control recoil, bunnyhopping in some versions of Source still works.All this, and Chess Robots are making plays nobody has ever seen.No matter what game you play, the only ones that can't be formularized are the literal games of chance, like the ones in Vegas, which by the way, you can still figure out and cheat!Believing that there's a "pure" game with no "formula" is dangerous, and thinking that a "formula" is the death of creativity undervalues the creativity needed to have made and found that formula in the first place.
>>86107064Have a constantly evolving meta and RNG like Magic. Magic is easily the better competitive game than Chess at this point.
>>86109514Meta isn't designed, it's discovered.MtG's RNG can be manipulated into being close to a non factor, and you'll find the best performing decks in any iteration of tournament play are usually the new power cards tucked away neatly behind a gamble of box purchases.Powerful combos are found, sure, and combos arise, but any that break the game open are banned months later, because it results in a game where the only way to win is to play the infinite.The game has a lot of depth inherently, but the incentive of the company behind the cards is money, to sell high and hard with power cards that are rare.It boasts the illusion of having more depth than chess, and builds hype with every new card published, but the game actually needs a fresh rotation of new bullshit and bans in order to live. MtG without frequent new power cards and ban rotations dies tomorrow.
>>86107064Define "solved". Rock Paper Scissors is technically unsolvable, in a vaccum it's basically a game of chance. In order to beat someone consistently you've got to play the mind game and make a prediction.
>>86109489>Chess at it's highest level is more complex than flying a planeThis here is a troll ladies and gentlemen, do not feed ham>>86089923I agree anon, I love when I'm learning a game. But I also like playing games against bots/solo/coop/turbocasual, because then there is no pressure to play the most effective way. It allows me to still enjoy games that I've mastered. I only enjoy chess with friends casually. Shame for SS13 that there's no version with full bot support. The community in that game is a mixed bag
>>86109489>Hidden Information" is what chess actually utilizes a lot of. You can't read your opponent's mind.While I agree with the rest of your post that's not what hidden information means in this context. Hidden information means there are relevant parts of the game state that you are not aware of. Poker and most card games have hidden information because you don't know what your opponent has in his hand, or his deck if you're playing a TCG.By contrast Chess does not have hidden information, because at any point you can look at the board and see all the pieces. The position and state of all relevant game elements is available to both players at all times. Whereas in Poker a player does not know everything about the current board state and in fact the entire game is based around trying to figure out the information that they do not have.
>>86106218No no, he’s claiming that he loses but does it for fun anyway.
Chessfags coping cause the only Queen they can touch is liable to being taken.
Chessfags coping cause the only Queen they can touch is easily taken.
>>86100128This. They don't like him because he's not one of them. It's the same reason why no one wants to publish my book. The cathedral has taken over chess too.
>>86102633The protocols of what? Of the elders of zion?
>>86087616>I would be good at chess guys! I'm just too intelligent to memorize the positions!!!11!Nobody who says this ever posts their chess960 ELO. Really makes me think
>>86099138>The % of chess games played on earth between players who don't have the first 20 moves memorized would be 99.9999999% or soThere literally aren't enough people on Earth for that to be true.
>>86109214>>86109424MTG isn't even the highest IQ card game, that would be Yu-Gi-Oh
>>86087616I tried getting into chess but the higher I got the more it became like your post and I just lost interest
>>86121329Only because you need a massive brain to understand its shit-tier rules like “missing the timing”
>>86121329ah yes yugioh the game where every mechanic is incredibly parasitic and types/themes have so much internal support that any deck auto generates itself with all the obvious synergies
>>86108828We need tag in the olympics
>>86109489That's not what hidden information means at all.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_information>>86095324Games where you can bluff don't require memorization and flowcharts means nothing. Unless you can somehow make a flowchart of how to control another human being, a simple game of poker can show how even a statistical bad hand can win games.
>>86082165I can't wait for the moment some AI manages to solve chess.
>>86086066All top players had suspicions about Neimann even before the Magnus loss.
>>86082165>people acting like gm is nothing This is what's confusing to me as a bypasser. Even if they aren't the top gm surely being a gm at all puts you at "capable of winning against the best players"?
>>86125633Niemann is a fraud. He's not a true GM.
>>86108828Both golf and nascar are physically demanding to the point an 87yo can't really beat a decent 18yo.
Humans can't beat computers, so if Niemann is a cheater, then anyone who beats him is also a cheater.
>>86108207StarCraft is a sport by your definition.
>>86087616>literally just memorize board states and follow mental flowcharts>What is IQ