Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade – less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/80674659/#80722465>Previous thread:>>85502973>Thread Question:Do you often modify existing monsters or create new ones? What is your process doing this?
Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!Tag your post with [OC] if you want it archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com.>1. Make a spell>2. Make a monster>3. Make a dungeon setpiece>4. Make a wilderness setpiece>5. Make a city setpiece>6. Make a magic item>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon>9. Make a trap>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
Rolled 4 (1d10)>>85544988I'm going to give this a try
>>85545394>Mettylgrier Bridge>A large stone bridge with broken crenelations spans a great gully NW-SE some 100' wide. >NW end is capped with a ruined stone tower that stood 3 floors tall upon a shear cliff that makes access to NW end difficult >Nearby cave full of on NW end is now inhabited by 3 ogres and a small treasure of trade goods like barrels of grains, alcohol, furs, etc including an old tapestry bearing the heraldry of the lord that once controlled the Mettylgrier (used as a napkin now)>Debris from tower thrown by ogres at trespassers in the region, some with nasty bits of old wrought-iron zoomorphs or window casements, -2 to hit due to irregular shape, +4 damage due to spiky bits
>>85545474Ahh, this is garbage. Sorry y'all. Can we just make OC this thread and criticize each other until I can figure out how this is properly done?
>>85544984I just realised Grognards never had player's handbooks... how did players know the rules? Did they read the entire rulebook too, even if there was only one copy?
I'm looking forward to Autarch's new By This Axe splat. Tons of shit on dwarves. I think my table tried an all-dwarves campaign last year but it lasted for... two sessions, so a real attempt at it sounds good.
>>85545811They asked the ref
>>85545811>how did players know the rules?Why do you think players need to know rules? You say what you want your guy to do, the DM tells you how that turns out. Roll a die only if asked. That's the entire game.
>>85544984>TQI usually look for something that looks like what I want, modify it if it is the result of alchemy or mutated (either literally or by experience/enviroment), or in the case of something really weird just make one from scratch. For example, once I made monsters made of paper, with one or two less HD than what they are based of and some attacks changed to fit the paper theme, like replacing a fire breath with a barrage of cutting paper. They were also obviously weak to fire and water
>>85545811Gygax goes through a lot of pain in the first DMG to get it through everybody's head that players are NOT meant to understand the inner workings of the game, I think he was worried that players would start to treat everything mechanically and reduce their experience to +/- and stop roleplaying (that is, use out of the box solutions and trying to figure things out through regular language not dictated by game terms.)
>>85544984If I wanted to use the OSR playstyle, but update the setting to a modern-day one (think older Tomb Raider games), what would you say would be the most important things to include and what is acceptable to leave behind?For instance, while time tracking is still sensible, modern light sources should work just fine for hours, perhaps even days depending on what type.
>>85545907>the most important things to includecomplex and detailed teledildonics rules>what is acceptable to leave behind?social media. it was a mistake.
>>85545907ammo tracking becomes a must
>>85545907maybe change the scale to conserve resource management, like making an exploration turn take 2 hours so flashlights last 6 turns just like a torch. this would also mean the place would be big, like a battlefield or a whole ruined city, which is not that bad since guns have a long effective range.though i would just look for a game perhaps a non-OSR one that already have these procedures figured out, not that i know many games in the first place
New actual play review today: the Legend of the Bones - a B/X solo play audio experience. https://clericswearringmail.blogspot.com/2022/08/the-bones-look-at-bones.html
>>85545892>I think he was worried that players would start to treat everything mechanically and reduce their experience to +/- and stop roleplayingHe was right, that's exactly what happened in later games.
>>85545927For sure.>>85545974Good points. I haven't found a game that actually does what I'm looking for, to be honest. I'm looking for a tomb exploration game where it can be relatively serious, and acrobatic freeclimbers can team up with grim-faced engineers and nervous scholars to dig up mythical magic doodads while chased by gun-toting enemies and in the third act there's something supernatural.I don't know, there's something novel in the players bringing breaching charges and power tools instead of ten foot poles and Knock spells.
>>85545907>modern light sources should work just fine for hours, perhaps even days depending on what type.You can quite simply reskin a bullseye lantern for a modern hi-beam torch. 6 hours battery life is fairly believable. I use one every day (I'm a night person) and lemme tell ya it wouldn't add up to whole days of battery life.
>>85546153Sorry, I should have phrased differently. You can definitely get a day out of a modern pen light and tritium lights last for ages. So it's more like "bright light for 6 hours, and candle-equivalent light forever, in the space/weight of one torch."
>>85546047Yeah, this is why I like B/X. You can't game the system if there IS no system.
Finished the map for my campaign today. It's a heavily modified version of a part of Greyhawk
>>855463443 mile scale? I like it a lot man.Where them dungeons at?
>>85546130Explosives and even suppressed firearms are very loud. One you go loud the whole adventure would become a running gun battle to the extraction point.
>>8554637410 mileDungeons aren't there, I'll add them on my VTT when my players get to know about them. This also allows me more flexibility and less retcon
>>85545892>>85545869I don't disagree with this line of reasoning but the sticking point I always run into is that I find often that new players typically don't understand what they can or ought to do in a dungeon without having at least a general understanding of the core mechanics. For instance, IME most players don't even think to drop food/gold during a chase to put off their pursuers, or don't understand how a loyalty score might impact what a retainer is willing to do. Obviously all of these things will become clear over enough time, but I always feel like it's easier to just tell players that, say, searching a 10'x10' takes 10 minutes and has a 1:6 chance of success instead of waiting for them to figure it out themselves. Perhaps this becomes easier when one has more experience DMing new players. I assume slowly teaching the game play rules and procedures over the course of the game is as much a DM skill as anything else.
>>85546344Also one of my players drew the party's only survived character with two NPCs (Elmo and Furnok from ToEE). Wanted to share cause I think it's cool
What are some good old school systems that have distinct race and class options rather than race-as-class? I'm wanting to go with an old school feel and want to avoid systems that encourage "optimal character building" because I want to encourage players to just roll for stats and go for it, and if a situation where it happens arises, not feel too bad about rolling a new one.The idea of the campaign would be a party of dwarves (and maybe halflings, still deciding if I want them to be included from the beginning or not) on a quest to recover dwarven artifacts and reclaim old dwarven sites as dwarven culture is finally starting to recover from a long dark age.I just want to make sure I'm using a system that doesn't force everyone to be fighters.
>>85546381That's an interesting trade-off. Raising the alert level vs combat and obstacle bypass.
>>85547107Rather than searching for a system with distinct races and classes, I would run b/x and assume dwarves as standard. (So a cleric is a dwarf, etc.) Give them some bonus saving throws vs posion or some other goodies. >I'm wanting to go with an old school feel and want to avoid systems that encourage "optimal character building" because I want to encourage players to just roll for stats and go for it, and if a situation where it happens arises, not feel too bad about rolling a new one.Don't encourage them, just tell them to do it. "For this campaign, we roll 3d6 down the line". >The idea of the campaign would be a party of dwarves (and maybe halflings, still deciding if I want them to be included from the beginning or not) on a quest to recover dwarven artifacts and reclaim old dwarven sites as dwarven culture is finally starting to recover from a long dark age.To set the mood, I would left halflings out at the beginning. If they encounter some in game, and are joined by some halfling hirelinga, they can run them. But they better be careful not burning them, as they can't be chosen as new character class.
>>85542904>>85543253Are there any good interviews about that process? Or do I need to start reading 97-99 Dragons?Like how people have written about the history of TSR D&D, I kinda want to do the same for 3e - but it's a history that starts with late 2e, since iirc everyone who designed 3e was a writer for TSR.
>>85547210I was thinking of tweaking the classes available to dwarves in AD&D so they could be clerics, fighters or rangers, and then allowing halflings to be thieves or illusionists. So making halflings only available from hirelings would be neat for the exotic nature of the class options they provide. I'm mostly thinking of including them just because I like the idea of halflings being natural allies for the dwarves, living in the hills and working the surface, while the dwarves live in the mountains and work the caverns. I don't want to let either be typical magic users, but I think allowing dwarven clerics and halfling illusionists could be fun. Using B/X doesn't sound like a bad idea though, though I think you'd still be limited to just cleric and fighter while keeping in theme, and granted, letting them have ranger isn't much better but it's something.>just tell them to do itWell yeah that's what I plan to do. It just feels better when you aren't doing that in a system that has arbitrary requirements to use your class features or anything like that.
>>85547230BAB/AAC were almost certainly because of AdkisonThe OGL is also 100% his thing without a doubt
>>85547424I believe the last TRS Gamma World (before it became an Alternity setting) used an AAC, and a saving throw simplification similar to Will/Reflex/Fort
>>85546484>most players don't even think to drop food/gold during a chase to put off their pursuers, or don't understand how a loyalty score might impact what a retainer is willing to do.Neither of these are strictly mechanical. The DM will decide the context of the situation. I would not roll dice to see if the monster goes for the thrown food if the monster is just attacking the PCs because its hungry (which is more a motive for normal animals but can be a monster's as well). Likewise, I would not roll dice if the players only ask the hireling to do reasonable things given the situation.It's not useful to tell them the odds of success either because the odds can and will change behind the scenes depending on situation and context.Telling your players the exact odds can actually harm them that way, and it may discourage them from future actions they think will force a roll on a table, but are actually automatic successes.
>>85547210B/X cucks needs to be shot holy shit
>>85547172If you look at deep penetration LRRP and MACVSOG reconnaissance and clandestine (sabotage, assignation, raids) operations during the Vietnam war you will see as soon as Recon Teams started shootings they would be mercilessly hunted. It was a down and out run to get to da choppa! One of the coolest tricks was the “nightingale device” which was a bunch of firecrackers tied to a mesh wire backing. They lit this off on a timed fuse to throw off the enemy looking for them. The D&D equalvilent is a whistling kettle filled with water over a fire. When it boils it will whistle attracting many enemies.
>>85547125>>85547411>>85548094I was already heavily considering AD&D, what exactly is OSRIC? Is it just an expanded library of AD&D compatible resources? What does S&W got going for it? I'm not too familiar with it.>>85548184>BlueholmeOr this one.
>>85548244Here’s the pic of the nightingale device I forgot. It was fused to sound like a firefight once lit. Another dirty trick was that the Recon Teams would dress their pointman like he was VC. That is black pajamas and pith helmet armed with an AK. The Americans tried to find boots like the BX wore but their feet were too big. So they often pulled 2 pairs of socks over their obvious American boots to hide foot prints. We were fighting evil black robe wearing swamp cultists in my D&D game so we started dressing the point man in their robes to help gain surprise.
>>85548244What an interesting parallel. I'll do some reading. Thanks anon!
>>85547107It sounds like you don't want or need a bunch of crunch, so you might want to try a B/X derivative. Basic Fantasy takes B/X and splits race and class. It also uses ascending AC, though I'm not sure whether that'd be a plus or a minus for you. A couple of pieces of advice if you do decide to use it though: first, it might not be a bad idea to give humans +20% earned experience rather than a mere +10%. 10% is rather paltry, and doesn't really stack up against the advantages the other races have. Honestly, I'm not sure +30% would be out of line, but +20% boosts them while still playing it safe.The other issue is that Basic Fantasy does a couple of things that strengthens clerics (cleric weapons do the same damage as non-blunt ones, and the percentage of magic weapons that are swords is cut dramatically, even if they're still ahead), and given that B/X fighters are already pretty weak, relative to fighters in other editions, and clerics gain levels faster than fighters, clerics are in danger of muscling in on fighter turf, while also having their spells. There are a number of ways of addressing this, but I frankly favor boosting fighters rather than gimping clerics. One thing you can do for fighters is give them +1 damage for every 3 levels they have. Another is to allow them to attack twice if they take a penalty of -4 or -5 to-hit when they do so. If you really want to have fighters progress, you can have this penalty start at -5 and go down by a point every third level, so that by the time they reach level 12, they're only suffering a -1 penalty. This puts them more in line with the power of AD&D fighters. But even if you just give them the +1 damage per 3 levels, that's enough to significantly set them apart from clerics.
>>85548268OSRIC is just a better organized version of AD&D and it contains 99% of the original rules. Btw shilling it here but I made an srd for it>leveldrain.com/srd
>>85545856>>85545998We need OSR people who don’t play solely to shill their products.
>>85548937>OSRIC is just a differently organized version of AD&D and it contains 79% of the original rules.FTFY
>>85548524>doesn't really stack up against the advantages the other races haveTo be fair, I'm only planning for dwarves and halflings and maybe some other non-standard races later possibly depending on what the players do, but if I choose this system and like it, I'll definitely keep that advice in mind.>clerics are in danger of muscling in on fighter turfWhat if I stole the deed die and extended crit range from DCC? Pic related (keep in mind every class gets extra action dice as they level up in DCC, warriors just start getting it a level early, while other classes start at level 6 and cap out at 1d20+1d20)I've always liked that part of DCC, I think it keeps warriors feeling interesting and exciting even as the magical classes continue to get more and more spectacular. Probably going to steal the critical hit tables from DCC too because those are always a lot of fun.
>>85548003RAW, both are actually strictly mechanical.
Demihumans single class onlyHumans can multiclass or get an XP bonusHuman supremacy fuck youPlaytesting is for gays
>>85549432Aug can be annoying with the shilling but he's earned his stripes as a true poster. Calm down.
>>85550025If you think this you've completely missed the point of the tables. Context can absolutely change the results of the roll, or even if there needs to be a roll in the first place.Do you also think that "a dagger only does 1d4 I'm fine, lol" if it's held to your character's unprotected neck? This is the same mentality.
>>85550043I like every demihuman having two potential classes. Like Elves being able to be Battlemages or Rangers, or Gith being Antipaladins or Monks.Each of the demihumans can have an option for one of two unique classes (which include their usual race-as-class setup), whereas humans can be one of their usual 4.
>>85550083Ok they're not "strictly" mechanical, they're just both explicitly outlined in the rules complete with discrete procedures and mechanics.Context matters only insofar as you still being within the framework of the system. Once you decide that, for example, you're going to ignore the rule that intelligent creatures who value treasure have a 50% chance of stopping for dropped treasure and instead just determine each scenario using DM fiat you are departing from the rules of the game. Which is fine, it's up to you to choose which rules you wish to abide by, but you still need to recognize that you are inserting your own personal house rules into a discussion about the game's mechanics.
>>85550169>but you still need to recognize that you are inserting your own personal house rules into a discussion about the game's mechanics.If you're not the guy who advocated telling players the exact odds of something happening, why are you responding to me? I'm specifically talking about that guy who thinks the videogame mentality of having advanced notice of roll table odds is a good idea for a tabletop game.
>>85550043Then you must love to playtest.
>>85550240Where is anyone advocating letting players know the odds of any roll? I read the reply chain and couldn't find what you're talking about. If you're referring to >>85546484, it's clear to me that you're mischaracterizing and/or misunderstood the post. Read:>new players typically don't understand what they can or ought to do in a dungeon without having at least a general understanding of the core mechanicsDoes not translate to>guy who advocated telling players the exact odds of something happeningand now it's hard for me to take your perspective seriously.
>>85550043Demihumans get one unique class each.Humans get to choose from 4.
>>85550252Damn I got btfo, unironically.I was thinking about this the other day though. Why the hell do demihumans, powerful enough as they are, also get the option to multiclass? Human dual classing is comparatively janky in my experience and just seems like a weird restrictive way to allow humans to diversify their abilities.Why exactly does the elf need [elf traits], fighter level 1, and wizard level 1 all at once when humans generally have to choose fighter level 1 or wizard level 1?The game has worked well enough for decades and it’s not like I’m offering groundbreaking thought. I just don’t understand EGGboy’s thought process.
>>85550309>"but I always feel like it's easier to just tell players that, say, searching a 10'x10' takes 10 minutes and has a 1:6 chance of success"What do you call this?Why should the odds of success be known? Sometimes the odds are 2 in 6 if the GM believes the thing has a higher likelihood of being found.
>>85548003>>85550240>If you're not the guy who advocated telling players the exact odds of something happening, why are you responding to me? I'm specifically talking about that guy who thinks the videogame mentality of having advanced notice of roll table odds is a good idea for a tabletop game.I think an advance notice of odds is many times a good idea, and a good way to simulate a character sizing up a situation before trying it.What makes OSR play good in my opinion is that it actually is a game (gamist) and not just some guess-what-the-dm-is-thinking (no rules ever shown to players, no mechanics ever made obvious) or ERP-simulator a-la 5e. You can call it a videogame if you like. Videogames are fun.NTA.
>>85550500>not just some guess-what-the-dm-is-thinkingIf you don't trust the DM to provide a fun experience, why are you playing with them?The DM is not your enemy and is not out to kill your character (ideally).
>>85550496At some point you do have to give players some idea of what to expect from their actions. You can't just sit there laughing into your sleeve like a smug little geisha.
"the players don't need to know the rules" =/= "the players must never know the rules"
>>85549887I personally love the Deed Die, it's probably my favorite part of DCC, above even the magic system. But it does rely on DCC's weird dice, which I dunno if you want to introduce to your game, especially if they only end up getting used for Mighty Deeds and the critical hit table>>85550532Who said anything about the DM trying to kill your character? He's just saying it's a game so it's fine to relax a bit about OOC knowledge.You might as well just hide ALL the numbers from them. Why should a PC know exactly how many experience points they have, or hit points, or their exact Strength score? If you're going for MAXIMUM IMMERSHUN I could see that, but that's not a game I want to play
>>85550894>ou might as well just hide ALL the numbers from them.This is absolute hyperbole. I would keep a monster's hit point total and armor class a secret from the players as well, and I doubt you would have a problem with that.Things that are on their characters sheet are fair game for them and it's silly to claim otherwise.
>>85550894Oh, DCC happens to be one of the main systems my friends and I play, we have weird dice in stock. We were playing 5e one time and the DM brought out the DCC fumble table on us. You don't think it would be too much to just graft the deeds system onto a B/X or AD&D inspired fighter class though?
>>85546194I work with one of the better petzle rechargeable headlamps available and its 8ish hours of light on the lower setting. After about 300 recharge cycles the battery is fucked too. That being said, how did Weird Adventures handle light sources? Its not an era I'm interested in but it might have a starting point. There was another more recent pulpy adventure osr setting, I forget what it was called but I saved it for maybe using the dinosaur rider stuff in something else.
Have you ever been part of a party that's slain a Tarrasque, Dragon Turtle, Ancient Gold Dragon, or something similar? What level were you? How'd the fight go? Why were you doing battle with it?
>>85550921I don't have a problem with the way you or anybody else plays the game.Yes, characters technically should not know their exact odds-out-of-six chance to succeed on any given task, but there's a lot of shit that the characters technically shouldn't know an exact number for (like their XP total) that just isn't worth trying to obscure from the players. It's up to you where that line is, personally I also don't tell them exact AC for monsters but they're going to work it out for themselves pretty quickly and I don't consider that a problem. I'd rather just tell the players the odds so they can use player skill to plan accordingly, rather than play a guessing game about how generous I, the DM, am feeling.
>>85544984Confession time: I convert tsr compatible material to traveller.
>>85551059>You don't think it would be too much to just graft the deeds system onto a B/X or AD&D inspired fighter class though?I dunno about AD&D but the Basic Fighter feels like one of the weaker versions out there. At low levels Deeds are only going to work like half the time anyway, and the higher levels where it's more powerful are also the levels where casters start to turn invisible and fly around like demigods so I wouldn't worry too much about it.Then again I am a hopeless Fighteraboo so maybe I'm biased.
>>85551477oh and if you're just plopping the Mighty Deeds system right on top of the B/X fighter then you'll probably want to find a way to throw Thieves a bone, too
Since we're talking about DDC Deed Dice I'm going to share what I've done to fighter. >fighters get 1d6 per level of combat dice (CD)>use them to add to attack/damage rolls or absorb incoming melee damage >each CD can only be used once per session or in-game day/week, whatever your fancy >ranged damage cannot be added to or absorbed by CD stole this from Dungeon Crafts Deathbringer game, tweaked a bit and instead of giving it everyone only the fighter gets them so he can feel like a Conan every once and while
>>85551391I'm sorry for being a race [Spoiler] as class [/Spoiler] traitor.
>>85551546That’s how it worked in Chainmail-OD&D too, right?
>>85551546I liked it. Ive always been found of the idea of a proactively applicable resource point for armored fighting individuals. Think it makes armor and skilled arms feel like a very proactive thing rather than a static defense buff. the idea of using it offensively or defensively once per session adds a level of tactics and frugality to it.>>85551619Is it? it does have a wargame feel to it.
>>85551546That's pretty terrible and obviously unplaytested because mathematically it's pretty much useless past level 3
>>85551546That's a fun new one for me. It certainly seems quicker than Mighty Deeds.Off the top of my head, a few competing hacks I've seen for giving fighters more oomph:>Mighty Deeds>Extra attacks and/or extra damage at certain levels>Sweep attacks: 1 attack per level against 1 HD enemies>Divide their attacks proportionately to the strength of their target(s), so a level 4 Fighter makes one attack vs a 4 HD enemy, or two attacks vs 2 HD enemies, or four attacks vs 1 HD enemies>Against enemies with less than 1 full HD, they auto-kill 1dX of them per round, where X = PC'S level>ACKS: When you drop an enemy in melee, you can move and make another attack, repeating a number of times equal to level>Black Hack: 1 "Damage Die" per level, split them up among available targets and make one attack roll per target to apply the damage dice>Literally just throw out the entire combat system and use Chainmail instead. >>85551619>>85551710Maybe if you squint but it's a bit more complicated than that, Chainmail uses a completely different combat system to D&D.It seems more similar to the one from black hack imo>>85551878>because mathematically it's pretty much useless past level 3How so? It seems like at level 4 the ability to absorb 4d6 incoming damage is still pretty damn good. That's almost like doubling your HP pool!
>>85551878idk about that. that could be the difference between death and life.though of course it does seem to get less effective as levels go. however, if you are using some rulesets all weapons do d6+mods anyways.
>>85544984Anyone got age of worms converted to B/X or any other OSR? I love the setting and arc but don’t wanna play it in 3.5
>>85551477>>85551485So I've been reading through it a bit and I like the look of Basic Fantasy I think. But at least for this particular campaign, thieves are going to be inherently halflings as far as the player options are concerned in the beginning of the the campaign, so they'll have the racial bonuses of halflings, and I intend for their thief skills to have a lot of opportunities to come up in dungeons if the players want to recruit one.But for a more typical campaign, because I think I might stick with Basic Fantasy if I end up liking it, how do you think thieves could be buffed up in a B/X inspired system? I might just give them 1d6 hitdice instead of 1d4 as they get in BF. That way halflings get 1d6 hitdice regardless of class choice.
>>85551546Stop watching professor storyshit he's an idiot and Not OSR.
>>85551926>It seems like at level 4 the ability to absorb 4d6 incoming damage is still pretty damn good. That's almost like doubling your HP pool!Great, now you've made it broken>>85552034>converting a Paizo railroad to B/XIs this a joke
>>85552082>railroadOpen sandbox gaming sucks balls. I want to live in a story.
>>85552089Read a book nigger.
>>85552063I agree hes kinda tryhard, but he does have some gems. hes repeating the same shit by now though.>>85551926a lot of these seem a good deal less elegant. not the other guy but the idea does seem to hit that sweet spot of tactical yet simple as well as almost universally aplicable.
>>85552095I do read and I’m a published author. I need everything to be a story. My life depends on it.
>>85552063It came through my feed, sue me. >>85552082>Great, now you've made it brokenIt's obviously going to need some more tweaking. Maybe cap how many CD can be used in one roll? The fighter at my table is only lvl 1 so I'm not worried about it yet.
>>85552174some potential solutions could increase it every x levels. every 2 or 3 maybe. or maybe increase how often you can do it, reflecting skill.
>>85552174Only allow one combat die to be applied at a time. No matter how skilled you are, you can't dump 6d6 damage into an enemy with a single blow, because they're presumably trying to make things hard for you. You can apply combat dice to either boost damage or soak damage from a hit a number of times per day equal to your level. Higher level fighters spot more openings as they grow more experienced.
This may be a really stupid question.When people say "OD&D + Chainmail", that's the same as the "LBB" with "Chainmail" as a supplement, yeah?
>>85552862OD&D can include the expansions but doesn't always. LBB explicitly excludes them.
>>85552174Sorry you fell for the this guy but the Dungeon Craft dad literally doesn't track HP so don't expect his mechanics to even work for actual games.
>>85550894The deed die system can be pretty easily simulated with a normal set.
>>85552862What he said >>85552882 plus you could always use Chainmail as a supplement to handle mass warfare, but when people say "OD&D + Chainmail" they usually mean using Chainmail for ALL combat, replacing the d20 system entirely. At least that's how I take it to mean.
>>85552035I like the Thief Adjudications + 1-in-6 skill system introduced in here.Makes him feel more useful from the get-go + give players some options of how to develop him besides some kind of a Spiderman.
>>85552983You sound like to you've watched more dungeon craft then I have. It's an average of +3.5 to attack, damage or absorption. Not exactly game breaking. >>85552266That sounds reasonable. >>85552226>some potential solutions could increase it every x levels. every 2 or 3 maybeI was thinking that but I decided against it because leveling up is slow and I want the fighter to have a little pool of CD to play test. I might put a hard limit on them if he survives long enough to reach higher levels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Y9xMHa2SIWhat do you play that is trve for OSR?
Excuse the cross post>>85553215Anywhere I could peek? Don't mind buying books, just wondering if such a resource even exists.
>>85553496For traps - not as much.For Monsters - well, most base books have a monster Encounter table for each area type, you can definitely base yourself on that.For events - there's metric shitloads. Here's one of a series. I also recommend looking for 'Raging Swan' on the OSR trove.
>>85544501>Any old-school hexcrawl primary examples?Get thee to the Library of Ye Olde Judges Guild.>>85544967>I forget which blogger took a PF series and condensed it into an actually useable hex crawl but that was neat too. Against the Wicked City. Great series of posts.>>85546130>I'm looking for a tomb exploration game where it can be relatively serious, and acrobatic freeclimbers can team up with grim-faced engineers and nervous scholars to dig up mythical magic doodads while chased by gun-toting enemies and in the third act there's something supernatural.OSR: Raiders of the Lost Artifacts by Night Owl WorkshopNon-OSR:Pulp Cthulhu or BRP plus the Astounding Adventures sourcebookHollow Earth ExpeditionThe d6 Indiana Jones game by West EndAnd there tons of old modules that you could easily reskin for this type of game: The Lost City, Hidden Shrine of Tomoachan, etc. See also Lands of Mystery by Aaron Allston, a lost-world campaign guide supplement multi-statted for CoC and a few other systems; it is excellent.
>>85551354I convert traveller(and WEG/FFG Star Wars) material to be TSR compatible to use in SWN.
>>85552089In emergent game play a story occurs organically through play not because you wrote a plot railroad for players to ride.
Can someone correct/confirm:AAC attack bonus = level + str mod (dex if missile)
>>85555877Nope. Each class has it's own attack bonus chart and stages.
>>85556200Damn .. okay.
>>85557409It works for monsters, though, for what it's worth.
>learn about the OSR, buy all the B/X reference books from Exalted Funeral>finally can play D&D again>"hmm these other games sound interesting">each one is a skin deep house ruling on top of B/X with like 90% of the pages dedicated to settings/mindset fluff and only a few pages showing the actual content>they still expect you to houserule mechanics for the new contentReally pisses me off how Death in space is all "yeah an arc bolt rail cannon sounds cool, huh? Sorry but it's really just a 1d8 missile weapon and you'll need to house rule any special properties it has!" Feel like a lot of these "nuOSR" games seem to think old-school games were just games where your character had like 5 stats and the rest of the mechanics were just based on gm fiat when one look at the B/X reference shows the crazy amount of mechanics that are available under the hood. Luckily I did pick up Dwarrowdeep so should have fun with that hopefully
>>85550828You can do this through clever description.For example "You fail to search the area but you feel if you were to search it 5 more times you'd find something."
>>85557409Go look up the OSE SRD for the different class progressions, it's simple enough.
>>85557775I can't tell if you're joking or not, that sounds awful. I really hope you don't GM like that.
>>85557775>>85550496...you dumb bastard! It's 1-in-6 per CHARACTER! Anyway, I don't think there's anything wrong with letting players know how most of the stuff they're rolling for works (Monster AC nonwithstanding, they can figure that thru combat). The game's balanced enough to dissuade the metagaming ol man Gygax was afraid of.
How many spells do you guys consider to be too much? And with how many spells would you like to start with?For example i like starting with a variety of spells, 3 of them, but having more than 10 starts to be counterproductive because i forget many of them and have to check the list constantly, slowing the game.What would you say is the sweet spot where you can keep your spells organized while having fun and doing cool shit with your spellcasting character.And the same question for class skills, how many of them are too much for you?
>>85555877AAC attack bonus = 19-THAC0AAC = 19-descending ACFind out THAC0 by consulting the class attack progression charts and adjusting for str/dexIf you want to keep descending AC but still use attack bonuses instead of the chart/THAC0, just modify each attack roll with the attack bonus, add opposing AC, and if the result meets or beats 19 the attack lands.
There is literally nothing wrong with speaking the mechanics out loud. The ghost of immersion is not going to shit on your table and curse you forever if you say "I have 2 HP left" out loud.
>>85557911Agreed. Everyone at a D&D table recognizes they're playing a game. If you want to try to hide those game-y elements as much as possible for the sake of keeping the players immersed in the narrative, there are better systems for that then old school D&D. Being dogmatic about not sharing mechanics or waiting for players to figure it out themselves is just bog-standard no-game navelgazing.Anyone who tells you that there's something wrong with handing a player a dice for a consequential roll, telling them what they need to succeed, and then getting that sweet tense moment when everyone at the table is engaged and holding their breath clearly should not be listened to.
>>85544608>>85544796These are absolutely superb, but I have a couple questions.Why are some of the names switched around (Arekasadra the Great) and some are not (Agamemnon)?Why is Agamemnon still alive when the Trojan War was storied to take place literally a thousand years before Alexander the Great was born, and in this hexcrawl, "Arekasadra the Great" is already an ancient conqueror that has a burial site that's already a megadungeon?
do you guys let players sleep in their armor? I'm torn on how to handle it
>>85559255The way I see it, it's either a meaningless choice on whether or not you have to remove your armor (they have to take off the armor to avoid fatigue penalties or to even sleep at all, but nothing happens to the party, so no consequences), or it's just a set-up to a dick move (tee hee you got ambushed in your sleep enjoy your 9 AC - or - tee hee you got robbed in the dead of night - OR - enjoy penalties all day because you were afraid of the last two things happening).I handwave it because I can't be bothered to care.
>>85546344What did you use when making this?
>>85559255I heard from LARPers that if you sleep in chainmail you wake up fucked. Here's a lifehack: Mercenaries are cheap, so just buy a band of them to protect you at night.
>>85559361They're fucking with you, people use weighted blankets heavier than mail for comfort.
>>85544984Currently running Stonehell dungeon in AD&D and have tried to make it user friendly. I also warned everyone OSR is very hard with lots of deaths.I've basically used the Keep from Keep on the border land as a base of operations for them and gave them a few non-combat activities like hunting to use skills and get a little bit of XP etc.Everyone comes close to dying at least once in the first session; for example taking on the mountain lion in it's cave and almost all the players act with caution.But one player died three times because they kept rushing into rooms and caves on their own with zero caution or common sense and then got arse pained when they died.Is there anything I can do as a DM or is this person just retarded? All the other players at the table were modelling good tactics and common sense but this one player just ignored it. They also pissed and moaned about having average stats like 10 and 11 for various skills.The only women in the player group felt I should have soft served the player that kept dying and fudged rolls in their favour. What does /tg/ think? Was I too tough or should I haven given slack?
>>85559517Nope, it sounds like you were absolutely fair. Especially considering the simple fact that ppl who acted smart survived, and the guy who acted dumb got his ass killed. It's in the game's nature. If he can't comprehend that that's on him. Did you point that out to him?>The only women in the player group felt I should have soft served the player This is a genuine wom*n moment and you should treat as such IE ignore
>>85559587>Did you point that out to him?Yes I explained in a way that he would understand - I referenced Dark Souls as a comparable example.As a player he always wants to power game and make Chad Thundercock. Every character he makes has a ridiculous backstory which would comprise the events of a high level adventures whole carrier.He also has terrible imagination as every character he makes is a not-Viking with some space wolf name ripped form 40k fluff.It also didn't help that everyone at the table laughed so dam hard every time he died because it was always so ridiculous. The third death came at the hands of a single rabid racoon in the caves near the entrance of Stonehell.
>>85559678Fuckin "Thorgrund Frostmane" sort of deal?>The third death came at the hands of a single rabid racoon in the caves near the entrance of Stonehell.THAT fucking thing? lmao it only fits desu. If that fuzzy friend didn't teach him the lesson, nothing will. At least the others got some kicks out of it.But hey, do keep in mind that this style of play is relatively unique, and doesn't fit everyone. If he doesn't like it, what can you do. I would encourage him again to try a different, more cautious playstyle, as a 'challenge'. But if he still won't budge, that's that.
>>85559741>Fuckin "Thorgrund Frostmane" sort of deal?Yes, his first character of the session was a cleric from Icewind Dale who was a "wolf priest".The rest of the group had a blast. It was also hilarious because the gnome fighter rushed in when he heard the screams and smashed the shit out of the racoon and I put the Conan opening music on as I narrated the epic battle ending with the gnome standing top the savage beast with severed head in hand.
>>85559255This is only ever relevant (in my game) when players are camping in the wilderness. The way I rule it, if a random encounter is rolled at night, whoever is keeping watch is wearing armor but no one else is.It actually is not as rough a penalty as you might imagine. A lot of times, the PC(s) keeping are able to navigate nighttime encounters without even having to wake up the rest of the party
>>85559436Weighted blankets have a soft fabric exterior and the weight is distributed over a much wider area. chain mail shirt made out of hard metal that falls directly on your chest and ribs when laying horizontal. The two are not really comparable.
>>85557717>hates system because it handwaves and put the onus on him>loves Dwarrowdeep because it handwaves and put the onus on himweird flex but okay
>>85560747How can i love something I haven't yet played
>>85560779How can you hate something you haven't played yet?
>>85559351I used Worldographer
>>85552882>>85553084I've been looking through the OSR section of the sharethread archive to try to find it with no dice. The document labeled "Compleat Chainmail Combat System' even has references to Chainmail! I want to find the Chainmail this is referencing!Failing finding the original, is there a retroclone that encompasses these chainmail rules like how OSE does B/X? A broader question, but are there any retroclones of white box era DND? I know OSRIC is BECMI (I could be talking out my ass and OSRIC could be AD&D)
>>85561402OSRIC is AD&D
>>85561402The original Chainmail should be in the tr0v3 - or is available on DriveThru, if you're willing to part with $5.In terms of clones - there's pic related - or you can use Aug's.https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-WnsLdOMLCHNZrU80WYuJcWFpEvchFoK/view
>>85559255Yes I allow it. The negative effects are over stated imo. I’ve slept in modern Kevlar and ceramic trauma plate (SAPI) plenty in field conditions. I do not allow natural healing if you sleep in armor however.
>>85561402you can just google "chainmail wargame rules pdf" and you'll find links to scans of the 3rd edition. Fair warning, it's a crusty old 1970s wargame so the rules can be a little opaque, but it's definitely more clearly written than OD&D.>Failing finding the original, is there a retroclone that encompasses these chainmail rules like how OSE does B/X?None like OSE that I'm aware of. All the Chainmail hacks I've seen require you to separately reference Chainmail, or make way more changes than a typical retroclone like 27th ed Platemail. Delving Deeper v5 seems promising, but it's still in development and hasn't been updated in a few years now.>A broader question, but are there any retroclones of white box era DND?A lot but I don't know of any retroclones that go for 100% white box accuracy the way OSE does for B/X. The way those books are written it's probably impossible.Two (free) ones that I like are Delving Deeper v4, which is fairly accurate. Whitebox FMAG makes more changes but is simpler and faster to get into.
>>85561785>>85561402Seven Voyages of Zylarthen and Delving Deeper are the only ones I'd reccomend
>>85521367>The Strategic Review implies "fights as four men" - in man to man for 0e - would roll to hit once, then roll 4d6 for damage.necroing from the dead thread but I've been thinking about this and I'm starting to really prefer this idea to the Compleat Chainmail method of "# of men = number of attacks" in Man-to-Man. It gets a lot closer to the original Chainmail balance, where who gets to swing first is really important. If you've got a short mace then you REALLY want to think hard before you close on that Hero with the polearm and take 4d6 damage.The only issue then is that higher level fighters are no more likely to hit, they just do more damage on a hit. I was considering just using the difference in FC/HD as a bonus or penalty to the hit roll, but then even a level or two difference suddenly becomes an overwhelming advantage when you throw parrying and magic armor into the mix. Maybe I'll try out your idea about splitting attacks across multiple targets and see if that's a better solution.
>>85560413Chain and ring mails are backed with leather or piled cotton padding, they don't just go over your bare chest
Is this too elaborate of a dungeon for a party of five players with limited oldschool experience? Still wip, got carried away while drawing.
>>85563478It's not even as complex as B1, y'know, the intro module for children
>>85563516I like B1, but I think some aspects might be complicated for new players (i.e. the teleporters).
>>85562749Yeah you're right when I said "directly" I should have specified the weight is falling almost completely on your body in contrast to a weighted blanket.
>>85563478That looks beautiful. Who cares if it's too elaborate. If the players have trouble mapping there's nothing wrong with giving them a little help
>>85557717>buy all the B/X reference books from Exalted FuneralI have a bridge you may be interested in purchasing? Post your mail.
>tfw the default setting of early TSR D&D finally clicks and everything makes perfect sense the way it is
I started getting into my first OSR game (OSE classic) and a have a few probably dumb questions before I try to run a game tomorrow.For magic and armor, I'm assuming that magic users can't cast spells at all while wearing any (in fact, what would happen if they tried wearing armor at all? I assume they just can't put any on at least in the basic rules). On the flipside, I assume that clerics can wear armor and cast spells. What about elves though? The rules say they can wear armor but doesn't say if it impedes spell casting.Also, I couldn't quite find a rule clarifying half damage. Do I roll half the dice or do I roll all the dice but then divide by half? Do I round up or down for that if so?Lastly, do the advanced OSE books address any rather dumb questions like the ones I asked above? I wanted to keep things simple but occasionally I get a little confused and would like more clarification on rules. I'll pick them up in either case but I was hoping to hold off until I ran some games first.Thanks in advance I'm really excited to play.
>>85565183Clerics can cast in armor because they're powered by JesusElves can cast in armor because they fart magicMagic Users can't since they're bookish nerdsOf course, they can 'put the armor on', but it would be so cumbersome for them it'll make them an easier target, and disrupt their magic circle bullshit.As for half damage, just roll the damage and half it. Round whichever you feel like, just keep it consistent for youraelf and players. Ruling on the spot is important, be flexible!OSE Advanced doesn't really address the stuff u mentioned but adds a bunch of classes, items and mechanics. I generally like them.
>>85561546Re-download, my dude - uploaded a fix this morning! Was mid re-org and half of the rules weren't there!Grognard is good stuff though - lots of SOVL, though written by someone with a ... technical mindset.>>85562675Let me know how it suits you!I'll keep sharing my own results and will look forward to hearing yours!>>85563478It will take a few sessions, but they'll figure it out. Getting carried away is fine - that's how mega dungeons are born!>>85565183>>85565322Further on the Advanced OSE - its purpose was to bridge the AD&D / D&D gap and put them on one power tier. So it introduces race-and-class to B/X, among other things - adding a bunch of material, like you mentioned.
>>85563644>>85565481Thanks anons!I'm working on the second floor atm, and after that the dungeon level below. I'm still experimenting with stocking procedures - I've tried bx/ose, labyrinth lord, adnd dmg, as well as delta's and courtney campbell's from his treasure book. I have a question while we're at it: do you keep track of wandering monster patrols, i.e. do you keep them assigned to a particular "home" room, so if they're defeated while wandering, the room is found empty? I like the idea of making factions constrained in terms of numbers to generate more dynamic faction warfare.
>>85559255Simply have them too sore to move the next day if they can manage to sleep at all, making them totally useless. This is realistic. Then roll on the disease table from the DMG. This is semi-realistic.
>>85563478>too elaborateNo such thing. It's good and I'm stealing it.
>>85565752This is bullshit. Not sleeping for one night doesn’t make your useless. Slower to process and tired sure but totally useless? No. Make a con check with stacking difficulty for every night you go without sleep after the first 24 hrs.
>>85565183>in fact, what would happen if they tried wearing armor at all?They would get all the downsides (reduced speed) but no AC improvement.Never say 'you just can't do it', make it a useless thing to try to do.
>>855658011 night without sleep makes me useless and I will drag everybody down to my level, so there.
>>85565792Please do, will post the updated version itt once it's done!
>>85565820If you were in a life or death struggle vs supernatural monsters you would just lay down and die? Of course not. You wouldnt perform at your best that’s to be sure. But the adrenaline dump would sharpen you up enough to swing a sword or sling a spell.
>>85565850People can perform most tasks while sleep deprived, just worse and at a larger risk for injury. You could reduce all stats by 1 until they have a good nights sleep for example.
>>85565991Fear of impending death? No sleep disturbance. Sleeping a padded gambeson? Penalty!
>>85559255I find that from a gameplay perspective that the sort of dilemma that sleeping in armour penalties create isn't worth it. I'm rolling ever night for random encounters, and it's just a big discouragement to wilderness adventuring if you insist on either armourless sleep or applied fatigue penalties. I just say that it's not the most restful, but part of being hardy adventurers is that you can get by with some grumbles and soreness when you awaken. Everyone stretches and walks it off while the mage is diddling about with their spellbook each morning.
>>85564825Care to elaborate?
>>85565736>do you keep track of wandering monster patrolsNo, doing this is really tedious for little payoff. When I'm stocking rooms and roll a "Monster," I treat the room as generally like the monsters' lair, or at least their current base of operations (ie they have a reason for being there; they're not just passing through). When I roll a random encounter, I consider those monsters separate from the ones in pre-stocked dungeon rooms, extenuating circumstances notwithstanding. This isn't a hard-and-fast rule for me though and I always do whatever would make the most sense in context.
>>85563478Only thing that I can see being a problem with this map is that the walls don't always align with the grid, which can become a real pain in the ass for the players and whoever is trying to map
>>85565183As far as magic-users wearing armor goes, the main point is to generally not let it help them. My approach is to halve armor's effectiveness for them, and not let them cast spells when they're wearing it. So leather would improve their AC by 1, chain mail by 2, plate mail by 3. That's getting a bit involved though (it's easy enough to do something like this for one thing, but if you have a game full of things like this, and it can get cumbersome, unless it's pretty much all reflexive to you), and the easiest thing to do would be to just give them no mechanical advantage from it at all (but obviously still encumber them).
>>85565322>>85565481>>85565814>>85567783Very helpful thank you everyone! That clears things up a lot.
>>85551546I kinda like the idea that each class has an expendable dice for their given class domain. something like:>Figther: add to damage or to damage reduction, if reducing effect causing damage to zero, they are unaffected>Theif: can use dice to add to initiative or to attack>cleric: can use dice for damage reduction or to imbue an item with cleric spell (that is to say, bless it. Always liked the idea of a cleric pulling out some chaulk, and drawing a line or circle of turn the dead)>Wizard: idk something interesting. anyone have idea of generally useful, but not boring benifit for wizard?things that arent just bonsuses, but action you usually cannot do
>>85565736I tend to not but for exceptional monsters/apex predators on the less likely ends of an encounter table I sometimes have a lair room for them and note something like>If not slain, 3:6 chance of the Stone Candle Wyrm in this location. Don't remember which module I picked that up from.
>>85565991>day 1 no sleep, -1 to all rolls, or +1 if that is bad instead. >day 2 no sleep, disadvantage to all rollsX;6, attack, saves, surprise, notice traps, everything.
Since AC is mostly dependint on armor, does anyone make a character sheet where ac is not presented as a core stat, but instead is a value next to the armor in your equipment list?If you got a long seperate one where its unweildy to consult it, I get that, but it does seem like something that can be recorded in the item itself rather than in your stats.
>>85568612AC is just as much dependent on your dexterity adjustment as it is on your armor. That's why it's considered it's own discrete score and not just a quality of armor.The logic behind having AC be presented front and center on most character sheets is that it's one of the numbers that's consulted the most. It ought to be near the top in the information hierarchy
What adventure do you most recommend for a total newbie to OSR?
>>85568381The wizard dice could be like metamagic, where it can change the range, duration, # of creatures affected, etc.
>>85568879b4 the lost cityjust a really well done module
Should i buy OD&D if im familiar with retroclones?Or if not, should i be intrested in any other D&D edition? (b/x, AD&D?)
>>85568907B/X is the best one tbqhwyfampai
>>85568907>Should i buy OD&DNot from WOTCEveryone should read Moldvay or Holmes Basic, AD&D 1e DMG, and finally the LBB
>>85568907You should be interested in all the editions.you can find PDFs of all the early TSR rule books with some quick Google searches if you want to take a look before purchasing.
>>85550475remember that in OD&D and AD&D demihumans had a level cap, so multiclassing was a way to balance that
>>85568879Of these I have run:>Tomb of the Dragon's Heart10/10 would recommend if you want a mythical feel. Shoter but still has good factions, exploration set up and possibilites for becoming a campaign centre megadungeon or world map faction. >Prison of the Hated Pretender Only ran the older version. Fun, interesting movement and light puzzles, combat against the guardian spirits can be very nasty for a new group. A bit small, I added exterior ruins with a bit of looting and such for a larger dungeon. The magical astolabe is neat but also pretty potent for a level 1 haul. The newer version seems better looking but haven't dug into it. >Tomb of the Iron God Lots of undead, so less reaction rolls. Didn't like that part. Otherwise neat dungeon. I added a faction of wandering humanoids to the table which I think gave it a bit more life. >Tower of the Star Gazer A few cool ideas but still doing the subversion of expectations lotfp shoots for so less good as an intro dungeon. Discourages interaction with the environment as nothing is benificial to mess with really. No wandering encounters. There's an older labyrinth lord version of the tower that is much better. >not listed but good Through Ultan's Door #1 is a solid intro adventure. Interesting fantastical dreamland vibe mixed with sewer life. Good map, early traps and treasure in a way that works well. Encounter frequency felt a bit light but doesn't seem too bad. >Haven' run yet but really want to Tomb Robbers on the Crystal Frontier seems really well made and thoughtfully put together as a learning dungeon. Lots of material to work with too. B1. Its a classic, seems like it might have problems but ought to try it. Purple Worm Graveyard, haven't done a pulpy conan sort of game yet, seems good for that. B4 would also likely work. Incandescent grottos, hole in the oak and evils of illmire all seem good, anons here have mentioned them positively. There's a lot of options.
>>85550475You're not wrong, but there are some caveats. If you roll high on your stats, you could qualify for a comparatively powerful human-exclusive class. And then there are the level caps for demihumans, which can sometimes be rather low in 1st edition AD&D (2e significantly boosts them). I personally dislike level caps, because they either haven't come into play yet, or they completely shut you down, but they are clearly intended to limit the power of demihumans. There's also the fact that a human-centric civilized world is the norm, and some people just want to play humans because they're familiar and easy to identify with. Oh, and multiclassing hits you hardest at low level, when you're most vulnerable. Single class characters are hitting 3rd level at roughly the same time you're hitting 2nd, meaning that you're sitting on the equivalent of a single die of hit points for twice as long as they are.Basic Fantasy gives humans a +10% bonus to earned experience, which is inadequate compensation, but it's at least a nod in the right direction. It also dispenses with level caps. Honestly, one of the bigger issues with demihumans is the fact that multiclassing is a wonky mechanic, and tends to be overly powerful (would you rather be a fighter 10, or a fighter 9 / magic-user 10? because the same number of XP will get you there). 2e is, at least, more restrictive with armor for magic-user multiclasses.>>85550043Oh, I see you already mentioned bonus XP. The main issue I have with humans being the ones that can multiclass is that it runs directly counter to the way shit normally works, so it's sort of like elves being short, stout beardmeisters. It's not necessarily a bad mechanic on its own, but it would just throw me for a loop.>>85550475The mechanics for dual classing are dumb enough that it hardly ever gets used, effectively eliminating it as an option.
>>85568879Palace of the Silver Princess>>85567203The "default" implied pre-greyhawk setting is post-apocalyptic deep England with a population density similar to Greenland; think Wars of the Roses, Black Death and The Anarchy happening simultaneously.
>>85569430Was there a D&D setting before Greyhawk? Both Greyhawk and Blackmoor predate the LBB. Or are you referring to the "Great Kingdom" from the Domesday Book?
>>85569964Not him, but published Greyhawk changed some preconceptions and implicationsThe LBB Wilderness Survival Map setting is much sparser and without real cities
>>85568879I really liked Hole in the Oak. Simple, concise, lots of interesting encounters inside. Showing parts of the map makes it easier for the DM as well.
>>85567692Good point, although I find mapping is a tough sell for my players anyway. I'm thinking about giving them partial maps as loot, while encouraging them to draw node-based maps for practical orientation. Although, this might make it more difficult to discover secret rooms through mapping.
>>85569964>Was there a D&D setting before Greyhawk?Yes, 'Outdoor Survival' was pre-Greyhawk and was much more uncivilized and weird, it wasn't developed nearly as much as Greyhawk but it was a completely separate campaign setting.
>>85569964>>85570003>>85570159There's quite a bit of headcanon in here but using straight LBB, there's every reason to expect to run into martians in the deserts and dinosaurs in the swamps
I've always found it particularly strange that Chris was allowed to co-opt and steal the "Misty Isles" name from Wee Warriors and nobody seems to have a problem with that?
>>85568381>>85568881an idea i was thinking about for wizards is “control dice”the idea is that if you naturally roleat or below the level of the spell you get a miscast of some sort. mutation, backfire, summon a deamon, etc. but if you do role low for casting, you can use the control die, a d6 to add to the natural role. thus you get the danger of miscasting magic, and the need to use it sparinging, or else you risk using up your control dice.
>>85570510"Misty Isles" is hardly a unique or original name—it's hardly the kind of term that could be "stolen." Plus the two products are distinct enough that there's no real risk in people confusing the two. It's just not that big a deal.
>>85570866true. isles, by their nature, are often misty.one term ive always liked in reference to nantucket island is “the grey lady”has a nice ring to it.
>Chainmail receiving more and more attention on /osrg/I dare say these threads have been improving lately
>>85572511I'm still convinced we haven't approached peak chainmail integration, It could be improved by such a massive amount with a few extremely minor alterations; I'm personally bias against shields, removing them would clean everything up although AC running from 2~5 would be quite alien.>>85569007ACKS
>>85573417The fag who posted it was probably trying to start an argument and decided to delete when no one took the bait
>>85573417Bigotry is not allowed here.
>>85570510>misty isles of the eld My players are borderline high enough level for that, 3 PCs level 3+ hirelings. Might wait a bit longer. Has anyone actually run it? Its been sitting on my shelf for ages and I might get to use it this year.
>>85573479Acks isn't bigotry its game realism.
>>85573039My biggest issue so far has been man to man. It's such a clusterfuck dealing with (potentially) multiple attacks and the attack priority system. I've just been messing around with it in solo play tests so far, but I know as soon as I drop it in front of players it's going to be like "uhhhhhh so who goes first again? How many parries do I have left? What actually happens if my weapon breaks, there's no entry for "fists" on the attack chart???"
>>85573516I haven't ran it but I've ran the other two adventures set in the same setting and they both use the same mechanics throughout, It's a mixed bag, the "weird chaos" rules will destroy your campaign if used as written very quickly, the optional rule of rewarding exp for gold spent on customs is inferior to the actually decent carousing rules already included in the book and adds a lot of additional load onto the DM, despite being a self-declared communist the union shit is embarrassingly neoliberal cringe, zero verisimilitude because despite him being 'muh Slavic heritage' the setting is very generic American gonzo with funny names.
>>85572511give me the basic rundown on chainmail mechanics and how they differ from b/x and whether i should switch to it, and convince my players to switch to it.
>>85574038Pro-tip: If you using CM to resolve OD&D just pretend parrying doesn't exist for the most part, it's great for 2 fighters of near equal strength duelling each other but clerics can break the game with it and it's a trap for MU's and Thieves.
>>85573592So acks is game retardation.
>>85574192>give me the basic rundown on chainmail mechanics2d6 resolution, armor adjustments make weapon choice matter and heavily encourages you to carry multiple weapons, return attacks speed up combat and punish retards attempting to get free chip damage, multiple fighter buffs that rewards them playing offensively rather than defensively, halfling thieves will fuck shit up and should probably be level limited to 4, pass-through fire and split-move and fire give you a reason to roleplay as legolas.
>>85574296>just pretend parrying doesn't exist for the most part, it's great for 2 fighters of near equal strengthHonestly I don't know if is *is* great for that. I notice in the original rules, it doesn't explicitly say you have to sacrifice an attack to parry, but that's the interpretation most of these hacks go with.If we go with that reading, there's pretty much one situation where you'd actually want to parry: if A) one hits kills, AND B) you've got weapon short enough to give you priority in the second round of combat, AND C) it's now only the very first round of combat: I know the guy with the spear is going to go first, and if he hits me the fight is over, so it might be a good idea to give him a -2 to that attack. Even though I lose out on my return blow I'm still going to go first in the next round anyway so it's important to make sure I survive that first swing.When you add Hit Points and multiple attacks by Fighting Capability into the mix, it's just a bad deal. I'm losing one attack to give him a CHANCE to lose one attack? Best case scenario, the parry works: I wasted an attack, he misses, wow great it's a tie. Counter-blows are even dumber: I lose an attack for a CHANCE to gain... one extra attack, and also a decent chance to have my damn weapon break.I want to just pretend parrying doesn't exist, but I think Counter-blows are an important balancing factor between shorter and longer weapons, right?Sorry to clog up the thread with wall-of-text Chainmail pondering. It's very, VERY possible that I'm just missing something. DESU the Mass Combat section of CM seems like a clever, balanced, relatively well-tested wargame, especially for the era. The Man-to-Man supplement, while very cool, kinda seems like something Gygax hastily banged out in an afternoon of inspiration.
>>85574192this >>85574522 plus the mass combat just uses a big dice pool of d6es to resolve attacks, so you can handle big skirmishes between large PC groups and their mercenaries vs 30-300 bandits very quickly and easily, vs the d20 system where it would take you all day
>>85574684Humorously, I got the opposite impression. Melee combat is an elegant and simple system, effective and quick: akin to something a habitual wargamer will intuit. Man to Man reeks of having done meticulous research into period tactics, weapons, and armor - then attempting to hammer them all together in a way that discards the possibility that there might be *two* fights going on this combat round. There was a super long thread that I'm having a hard time finding that I saw a while back, quoting from a firsthand Medieval account about which weapons were good for what purpose: ended up praising bill hooks and other polearms of around 5 or 6 feet in length. Will keep looking - was a good read.
Oh - parries: parries make more sense in 0e, methinks, at higher levels when you have attacks to spare, preventing a slower but deadly attack from coming through.
>>85575005The MtM matrix is absolutely the star of the show - but to the detriment of everything else. "What's the ground scale? How long is a turn? How far can a bow shoot? Meh, who cares about all that boring wargame crap, just copy it all over from mass combat. What, bow ranges don't make sense then? Nevermind that, look at this cool weapon vs armor matrix I came up with!!!" To me it looks like he had one cool idea that he spent all his creative energy on, then everything else was thrown together as an afterthought. It stands out to me that the MtM supplement is a grand total of three pages, including jousting rules.>>85575029I see what you mean but even then, wouldn't it be smarter to just use your attacks to try and kill the enemy? By killing them faster, you're proactively preventing the attack from happening at all. By parrying, you're just kind of treading water - sure you made him miss, but you also didn't get any closer to beating him. Next round he's just going to attack you again and then you're right back to where you started.I'm sure there are situations where parrying is useful, but I worry that it's going to be a struggle for players to decide which attacks to trade out and how many. Or at worst, a trap where they're going to waste attacks parrying because the system is too opaque for them to fully understand. Plus the added wrinkle of counter-blows interrupting the usual blow -> return blow rhythm in a system already complicated by weapon-class initiative.
>>85575499I like the missile rules for M2M. That is, 2d6 against target number based on range. I'm not sure why the mass missile rules work the way they do, rather than dice pooling like Melee does - especially in the couple points where the casualty rate is set in stone - no roll needed. Likely speed, truthfully. Faster to knock on casualty counters.Makes me want to ask Perren about which elements were his inspiration versus which elements were Gary's.
>>85570371This was a really enjoyable read and headcannon or not I'm in love with it. Have any further reading along these lines besides outdoor survival which i guess I should go find and read
>>85568879Tomb of the Serpent Kings worked pretty well for a group I was running for. Only got one session in before covid struck though, so I don't know about the rest, but the part they went through definitely taught them how to do OSR well.
>>85575614iirc Outdoor Survival is just a completely unrelated board game about camping or something; the only relevance it has to D&D is that Gygax called it out because it had a big hex map you could use as an overworld.
>>85575595I actually don't mind the 2d6 resolution mechanic, it's just the ranges that are crazy. 150 yards for an archer is fine if it's a mass formation shooting at another mass formation, but for an individual bowman shooting at a moving target that's absurd. OR you reduce the range by 20 times to match the new MtM figures:men scale, in which case your archer is now completely useless past seven yards! You can just try to not think about it too hard (the author certainly didn't) but it smacks of a lack of care and attention toward everything except the attack matrix.
As a rule of thumb, undetected traps like pit traps or crossbows in the walls, should go off 50% of the time, right?
>>85576219What does it say in the rule book you're usingConsult it and then do what it says.
Anyone know where i can find the full size of this art. I remember there being portrait ones as advertising in magazines
Noob here. What are some early game moneysinks? PCs need a lot of money to level up so how are they gonna spend it? Put it into the bank or hide it for later? Taxing is obviously an option.
>>85577027I don't play on a gold standard so it's not an issue for me, but... Building/buying property, carousing, bribery, influencing local politics, buying magic items if you're playing a game which has that (many don't), buying supplies for the dungeon, buying supplies for long trips, buying a boat, investing in profitable business ideas, bedecking their armor in solid gold filigree, buying plate armor in the first place, donating to their church, building temples and shrines...
>>85546344There's a road to "The Stump" but there's no road between Enstad and Hardby? That doesn't make sesne. It also seems like the road would run from Angleboar to the road south from Badmouth (great name).The farm hexes seem too numerous (assuming it's 6 mile hexes?). Otherwise it's nice and cozy.
>>85577027A good early moneysink can be basic one-use magic items such as potions and scrolls.
>>85576099>Outdoor Survival is just a completely unrelated board game about campingYeah, it's a totally mundane boardgame. Apparently it's the worst game Avalon Hill ever made.https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/121959/outdoor-survival-it-really-bad>>85576666It's the cover of I11 - Needle. It may also have been used on one of the divider cards in the 2e Monstrous Compendia looseleafs, but I'm not sure about that one.
>>85558361more than 12 is too much because I can't roll for them unless it's exactly 20
>>85576176At 150 yards, he'd be at -1 to hit, though, for what it's worth. Even against light armor, he'd only have a 41% hit chance.You could go for the 0e scale - scale it down to 1"=10' - so, you're firing at a 150 foot range rather than 450. Much less dramatic than the 1:20 approach - but should have the effect you're looking for. >>855762192-in-6, rules as written. >>85578261You can find it online in PDF if you look: it comes with a real life guide to survival in the woods - which I'm told appears to be legitimate survival advice.Much easier to "touch grass," as they say, with OD&D!
>>85577027Level-up training is always the solution to early abundance of money. It's 1500 gold x current level in AD&D, might want to lower it for Basic or OD&D.
>>85575499'Who cares' is a good approach though, who really cares at a round being 6 seconds or 1 minute it doesn't change or effect anything, bow ranges don't even matter you're gonna be firing in corridors at close range 99.9% of the time.
>>85578261What a ignorant "review", completely ignores the context of why it was published.
>>85578821What? If you have a d20 you can roll any dice under 20 by simply rerolling until you a have a number in the desired range
>>85579209i am not a fan of having to re-roll on an X result, especially since you get in average 3 spells at first
>>85577027Hirelings, training, misc upkeep, a house (to keep your money in)
>>85579334You can fake it with multiple dice.D8 + a coin flip for 8 or 0 produces 1-16 on even probability.
>>85579129b-but muh verisimilitude...
>>85577027Hiring and equipping henchmen & hirelings, consulting sages, 100gp/level per month minimum player character expenses, elaborate plans to build crane systems to loot the awkward treasure, pack animals, spell research.
>>85579195What was the context of why it was published?
>>85577027Honestly for the early game you should just let players do what they want with their money. 'Moneysinks' don't become relevant until players are getting into the higher levels, where they are potentially getting so much treasure they can't reasonably spend it in like a basic village or town. "How are my players going to spend money" is a better question for your players than for anons in a message board.
>>85579129> who really cares at a round being 6 seconds or 1 minute it doesn't change or effect anythingidk i usually have time very much matter in games.
Dungeon Meshi is getting an anime adaptation. We might be getting some new friends soon!
>>85581318>Dungeon Meshi is getting an anime adaptation.Wow, didn't expect that. I still remember when I thought there was an anime, when in fact it was just an animation to promote the new volume of the manga. Particularly excited to see it, I had some ideas inspired by the manga.
>>85581318We'll have to add a reminder to the OP explaining hundreds of people have already tried a butchering/eating mechanic and failed, it doesn't work outside of a manga don't waste your time.
>>85581452Come now, this is relatively good.I can imagine it now. Have another resource on hand - spices. When used in conjunction with the meals, it gives you a +1/+2 to the effects roll so you're less likely to detonate from eating a Dragon.
>>85581432It's incredibly popular both in Japan and the US. An anime adaptation was more or less inevitable. I'm just happy it's with Studio Trigger — they're one of the few studios who could do the series justice. >>85581452What the hell are you talking aboutLetting your players eat monsters is awesome. granted you need the right kind of table for it
>>85581486Wrong, it doesn't list the required equipment nor weights, fuel, times, etc. obviously cooking should attract monsters. Skerples didn't apply himself while writing this.
>>85581771>required equipmentfire, pan>weightscooking gear is neither treasure nor weapon/armor, so it falls under the flat misc. equipment and provisions 80 cn load>fuelsame as any campfire, or perhaps you can use lantern oil>times 1 turn to cook, 1 turn to eat, adjusted as necessary based on the size and complexity of the monster>obviously cooking should attract monsters.Bump up random encounter chance by 1-3 depending on context and/or roll an extra random encounter roll on the turn spent cookingThere you go, have fun
>>85581953>1 turn to cook, 1 turn to eat>turnAre you a duck?
>>85581997I'm not sure what you mean by that but I suppose something longer would be more reasonable. Perhaps the whole process should take one hour, which includes preparing, cooking, eating, resting, and cleanup. Similar to how combat always takes a turn regardless of how many rounds pass.
>>85581486I like this but it's a little cumbersome for me. I would prefer just to have a single table to roll on whenever the PCs want to eat a monster, similar to the potion miscibility table. Results would include food poisoning, bonus health, limited use of the creature's ability, mutation, that sort of thing.
>>85581452The only time something like this has come up in our games has been skinning dragons to use their hides to make armor. But now that the topic is brought up, I don't think we've really ever considered eating anything besides rations, fish we catch while camping, tavern food and whatever is served at diplomatic feasts we're invited to.Wow, adventurers have shitty diets.
>>85582390If we're going down the realism route eating anything grown or slaughtered in a dungeon is a very bad idea, you would almost certainly get very sick very quickly and food poisoning would be the least of your worries.
>>85582455>anything grown or slaughtered in a dungeon is a very bad ideaWhy? Kobolds, goblins, orcs and all other manner of sentient creatures live inside dungeons, they need to get by too, if anything I'd imagine there'd be plenty of edible forage to find inside a dungeon if you knew what you were looking for, humans just aren't used to identifying dungeon flora for that purpose.
>>85582683You'd be essentially transferring any diseases and possibly creating a 'super-strain' of it; want to be horrified? read about prions. There would also be a strong concentrating effect due the limited ecology, flora and flesh would contain high levels of toxins.
>>85561258is there a crack?
What old school systems are most likely to frustrate my prospective powergaming player? What systems would force him to interact with the world and roleplay more (as opposed to not at all), attempt creative problem-solving instead of using ability checks for everything, and worst of all, have him start his character on par with everyone else's?
>>85583080any of them if you do it right. altough beware of demihumans, they are usually stronger at first
>>85582825That just depends on how you view dungeons—if you treat them like sprawling mythic underworlds there's no reason why they couldn't be vibrant ecosystems (which is essentially the direction dungeon meshi goes in). Obviously from a realism perspective eating a dungeon-dwelling monster is not the best idea but if you continue down the realism road the whole concept of dungeons falls apart.I'm not saying that eating monsters belongs in every milieu or setting, just that realism is the wrong lens with which to examine the feasibility of implementing that in your game.
>>85582683acclimation is a thing.humans get sick from unfamiliar food. before we even get to the 'dungeon' part, consider that armies used to have significant diarrhea problems just because their men walked a few hundred miles from home and robbed the local peasant's larder.can you afford to spend days in a 'dungeon' as in a dangerous environment, constantly woozy from lack of sustenance and fluids yet also on the verge of shitting yourself?and once you get past acclimation, again there is a reason why we generally do not hunt carnivores for their meat. 'You are what you eat' isn't just a saying. The risk of getting disease crossover increases significantly.
>>85583197The carnivor thing is misleading. We don't hunt them because they areuch harder to hunt. Predators are cleaner animals then scavengers and everything except dedicated herbivores.
>>85583080Any of them. You can't go wrong with B/X and it's derivatives>attempt creative problem-solving instead of using ability checksMy brother in christ, ability checks are called for by the DM, not the players
Funnily enough although it wouldn't solve all hygiene problems consuming only the blood after cooking would eliminate a lot of immediate disease vectors.
I don't want to waste map space with boring civilised star systems with lots of cops for my SWN sector. Should I just put a neutral trade system at one edge and tell them:>the next sector is boring and has tax collectors, hire some space mercs and go loot ancient alien dungeons or smuggle stuff.
Since when do we care about diseases? Players eat in situations after fighting a horde of monsters (Probably full of their blood all over the body) with no source of water to clean themselves, they shit and probably don't clean themselves with water either, unless you want to spend a canteen which is nothing clever.There are so many shit situations inside a dungeon to catch diseases, but only now that it's about having a focus on cooking monsters we started to worry if the players are going to have a problem? When did the fantasy get lost and we started to treat it with unnecessary seriousness?
>>85584008>When did the fantasy get lost and we started to treat it with unnecessary seriousness?1986.
>>85584008Realismfags will be realismfags, nothing we can do about it. And in a game built to model fantastic pulp stories, of all things. Pah!I'll stick to my Stirge Stew and be happy with it
>Thread is going to be full of weeaboo faggotry again>It'll probably be worse than Goblin Slayer
Why is progress so slow in osr games? Everyone seems worried about giving too much money or siphoning it away from players, but it takes ages for them to get any in the first place.I've looked through blogs and APs and it's rare to see a character level 5 or higher, even 50+ sessions into a campaign. Most of these parties are mixed with lower level characters replacing others who died, meaning most players would never reach level 5 in a year-long campaign played weekly. I know some PCs should die, but I thought some of them should survive to name-level which I never see in the write-ups.As a player too I don't understand it. Level one characters are worthless, replaceable, and free, so there is no reason to chip away session after session trying to make level two. I want a high reward heist to hit it in one session/adventure.I don't want to play monty haul, but I understand why there are so few adventurers in these settings and so many NPCs collecting copper and silver. It's safer and more lucrative in the long run. I know I can put as much treasure as I want into my own games, but I wonder if others have advice or experience adjusting these things. Does the treasure distribution from the base game need changing? Is part of the reason new players won't try osr because they want to level up before they die in real life? How fast should progress be in B/X-derived games?
Rolled 4 (1d10)>>85544988
>>85584148It's weird, but I guess it really depends on the kind of modules you run. I participated in an a series of adventures through Incandescent Grottos + Black wyrm of brandonsford and ended up at lvl 4 In a couple of months.>How fast should progress be in B/X-derived games?I think about 4 sessions per level is 'around right'. Of course, it's dependent on how daring the players are.
>>85584148Far too many tables have to many players, play way too slowly and more often than not everything is being ran incorrectly.It doesn't help that B/X doesn't have OD&D's exp rules.
>>85584271Care to share the main difference between the two?
>>85558860Names: Just felt like it, the more cultural osmosis names got changed to preserve more mystery to the milieu. Like using "Nephelegeretas" instead of "Zeus"Chronology: I was struggling with making a Knossos Megadungeon so I just made it Alexander the Great's tomb instead. More material to work with across his campaigns. Hit me up on Discord: Lungfungus#8844if you want the first 4.5 levels of the Palace, pic related.
>>85584306100 EXP for each HD of each enemy defeated plus dangerous modifiers. You also get the exp for the gold value of gems, jewellery, magical items you recover.
>>85584378I see, thank u
>>85578261>>85576099So where did the post >>85570371 get all that info about the fantastical world?
>>85584445It's studied conjecture based on what is in the 3LBB (specifically the encounter charts) and how the map is laid out. That's why anon described it as having "quite a bit of headcanon."
should a zombie be able to climb up and down upright ladders. Or should they be too clumsy and stupid for such coordinated maneuvers?(trying to figure out if a necromancer's minions will be able to follow him around a dungeon)
>>85584353Guy who asked about it, I may or may not steal some of this for a Mazes and Minotaurs campaign. Holy shit it rules.Thank you.Do you have this keyed btw?>>85584378>100 EXP per hit dieThat seems like an awful lot, anon, but I may try it out.
>>85584608>should a zombie be able to climb up and down upright laddersNo.
>>85584608I'd say yes. Zombies are more interesting as semi-sentient undead thralls (a la voodoo zombie or even hollows from Dark Souls) instead of the turbonormie early-2010 walking dead-style mindless shambler
Yo, I'd like to see something I made played at someone else's table. Is anyone here in need of a dungeon or something and wants me to make it and report back to me?
>>85584747Do you have any examples of things you made?
>>85584786https://www.leveldrain.com/tags/originalAnd some random unpublished dungeons and quests. You can ask and don't use if you don't like it + i can adapt to the theme of the campaign no problem
>>85584634Levels 1-4 are fully keyed, Level 5 has super minimal notes, Level 6 is untouched.
>>85584826Are the "s" indicating this is indeed based on M&M since in that setting silver instead of gold is the monetary standard? Just curious what you based this on.>>85584807I would like to see an older hand than me take a stab at a dungeon generated with the AD&D DMG Appendix A. Though that's just me being curious.
>>85584647what about climb a rope than?
>>85584884This was based on early drafts/notes of Actual Dungeon Mastering. I just use a silver standard to make gold more exciting for players.
>>85562675had more random thoughts about parrying in Chainmail. In addition to my earlier doubts, the highest level of parrying (8 WC difference) seems kinda busted as well. You sacrifice the second strike for a -1 to the enemy's attack roll, so the only situation where it actually helps you is if they roll the *exact* number they would've needed to hit... but if they do that, your weapon breaks. For example:>My first attack misses, I then decide to abstain from my second to parry>the attacker's target is 9+ to hit me, but takes a -1 to his roll>if he rolls 10 or more, he hits me anyway so I just killed myself by letting him swing first>if he rolls 8 or less, he would've missed even without the parry. I then get an extra counter-blow (possibly, the rules are unclear) but I also traded out an attack, so the parry accomplishes nothingSo parrying only helps if he rolls exactly 9, but if he rolls exactly 9 then my weapon is shattered, leaving me defenseless.I mean... presumably defenseless? Gygax helpfully neglects to tell us the actual consequences of being disarmed.
>>85585157>I just use a silver standard to make gold more exciting for players.based, I don't want to go full mudcore but I don't like the idea of GP being so common that basic necessities like food are worth literally more than their weight in gold
>>85586753Mudcore is when you use a copper standard like I do lolIt's fun but if I had to start over I'd probably do silver standard just so that my party would play things less safe
>>85584884>I would like to see an older hand than me take a stab at a dungeon generated with the AD&D DMG Appendix A. Though that's just me being curious.I've tried using for a little bit for solo gaming and I gotta say it generates a LOT of corridors on diagonals that intersect other regular passages and then do a Y-split into more diagonal passages and side passages that shoot back at 45 degree angles that then lead into rooms at weird angles and more. I ended up ruling that diagonal corridors straighten out right before they go into rooms because I hate drawing entire rooms diagonally on a square grid. Also I ignored a lot of the "side passage shoots back at 45 degrees" results I got because I just couldn't be bothered.If you're better at drafting dungeon maps than me the end result would probably look pretty good.>>85586821I seem to remember some guy who used to post pixel art of his party here who was running a copper-standard mudcore game. It seemed neat.But I think when a lot of people say they're moving to a silver standard, they're ALSO adjusting the prices of everything to match (e.g., a week's worth of rations now costs 5 *silver*, it takes 2,000 sp to get to level 2, etc). So nothing's really changing in terms of game balance, it's just making gold 10x more valuable but they're finding 1/10th of it to compensate. At least that's how I do it.
>>85586821i guess if we are using the term mudcore to mean so grim that its grimmer than real life, since at least in medieval europe, silver was the currency of common trade.
>>85587024He's playing in a copper-standard game iirc, not running it.Also, at least how I mean the term, I don't change the prices. Rations that cost 5 silver still cost 5 silver. I feel like it's about 50/50 whether someone means "rename coins" or "make everything 10x as expensive to buy".
>>85585093Climb a rope? Maybe not. Perhaps 1 out of every 6 can. A lot of adults have trouble climbing rope, zombie or not.
>>85585157Do you adjust treasure EXP if silver is the standard? More stuff like spices or funerary urns in dungeons that is valuable but only to the right hands? More monster EXP?
>>85587136If he's really just cutting treasure down that much but not adjusting prices that's pretty nuts. Look at Keep on the Borderlands. If you convert that treasure to copper then by searching carefully you might find like 50 to 200 copper in a dungeon room when it's 200,000 cp per player to get to 2nd level? And a week's worth of food costs 500 cp for a single person? I mean more power to him if that's the way his group likes to play but if things got to that point society would just stop using currency completely
Jason if you're here that hydra should have done at least d8 per head man. Let the bodies hit the floor.
>>85587222oh I just realized that in OD&D it's actually only 50 copper to one gold coin, so it's not as bad, it's only 100,000 coins to level a fighter or 250 for a ration. Still the whole problem with the price lists as-written is that things already seem absurdly expensive. Effectively jacking up all the prices by an additional 50 times just makes it worse
>>85587222No, the XP costs are moved down, it's just the prices that stay the same. So a plate armor might not be something you get until you're like level 9 or 10 or so, maybe higher. In silver standard it would probably be level 5 or so. (using 400gp/plate armor and 1gp=10sp=100cp)
I run silver standard and I adjust prices to match. I’ve had no issue with it and it does make gold more valuable and lucrative. One thing you notice is just how many coins players can get in lair treasure.
>>85584148>Everyone seems worried about giving too much money No not everyone. If you look at old prewritten modules + quests in Dragon Magazine you'll notice that the treasure hauls are generally pretty large. In premade modules it goes well above and beyond the limitations of the "treasure tables" listed in the manuals.That's probably due in part to they want people to run those modules (players are always happy with loot, therefor buy more modules)But that could also be a part of the factor of "place desired treasure" in that particular section of the book.Regardless though if you go about placing treasure strictly by the books and relying on RNG of the dice your players are going to be in for a rough time.Look through old mags and modules to kind of get a feel for the way those are placed.One thing I like to do is place treasure by the amount of creatures in said lair.Huge tribe of goblins in the old cave in the mountain? Chief, bodygaurds the whole 9 yards?Find the average treasure value and adjust accordingly by the numbers.Or do it in another way by placing bounties on said goblins heads.Or the old wizard in the tower outside of town wants their skulls for -insert excuse here-Plus there's generally rewards for finishing objectives. Playing alignment well. Being heroic. Plus on top of that the modifiers for bonus XP for prime requisites.The last B/X games I played ran 7 sessions between 4people + 1-2 hirelings actively playing.The rogue had hit level 4 or 5. High Dex + low xp requirements.The fighter had hit 3 due to being a true Chad of a fighter. Good rolls and high Con gave him some high HP max.Pretty sure the Wizard had just hit 3.Elf was lagging around at level 2.If I remember correctly there are some decent guidlines in the Rules Cyclopedia (inb4 not B/X) about magic item gold value.If you want to be that autistic about things you can factor that in as well.>>85584378Since when did B/X not give XP rewards for gems and jewelry?
>>85587446Why are we using 400 gp plate mail? Oh. Because that's what it is in AD&D. Honestly, I like that price better than B/X's 60 gp (though not necessarily for a silver standard game). With a silver standard though, sticking with banded for a good while starts looking pretty sweet. It's less than a quarter of the price, you only lose one point of AC, and your base movement rate is better. Just stick with that until you find magic armor.
>>85586608I'm starting to come around to your way of thinking. The places where parry is *good* are severely outnumbered by the places where it's not as good as attacking. Very curious how many man's a man's a man encounters, or how many jousts, actually made it into Gary's games.>>85587174I give XP for SP, plus 100 per HD of monsters defeated or bypassed. I keep prices for stuff the same, though. It introduces just enough poverty that you don't need gold sinks, but not so much poverty that the domain game suffers. Mathematically, at least. lol>>85587570This is a based and prolific solution.
>>85583080Any system, really. You just have to stop being a pushover. But if you want to go to extremes, original D&D, no suppliments. 3 classes, the DM rolls ability scores for you (3d6 down the line). No ability checks, hell you can skip using character sheets entirely because ability scores do pretty much nothing, so you don't need to know what the numbers even are. Don't even let players use their own, roll literally everything behind a screen. There is your extreme powergamer's nightmare. He will desert you if you take this advice though, so I hope that's your actual intent.