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>>>IF YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION, PLEASE SPECIFY WHICH GAME YOU'RE PLAYING<<<

Kineticist Edition

/pfg/ (pathfinder 1e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T
/p2g/ (pathfinder 2e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/1zySxwm3
/sfg/ (starfinder) link repository: https://pastebin.com/5yp9s2U3
/3eg/ (D&D 3.X) link repository: https://pastebin.com/VMRsxB2m

The T̶r̶o̶v̶e̶ Vault (seed, please!):
bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4Md

Previous thread: >>85510977
>>
Shout out to everyone who loves pathfinder 2e.
Even the haters.
>>
>>85538956
1e. Should my mad dog barbarian pursue the beast or dragon totem line? I figure I will build it to be tripping everything with a wolf companion while dumping as many AoO's on target as possible with Come And Get Me. Stacking DR (maybe with the Stalwart feat line too) seems like a good idea when my AC is gonna be dogshit, but pounce on both my barb and their wolf through furious beast rage powers seems real nice too
>>
>>85539240
If you are melee then Pounce is more valuable than any other ability you could get.
>>
>>85539364
This. You can buy other stuff after getting pounce. Go all in on that.
>>
>>85538879
Thank you
>>85539259
i used an old term for it, but its more like we have a persistent private channel and the game just goes on constantly via chat.
We all got RL stuff going, don't have time to get together for sessions, so everyone just tries to move the game along when they have the time. A player in battle might take their turn during breakfast, than head to work and take his next turn on a lunch break 3 hours later. And the rest just wait, shit talk and do campaign book-keeping tasks.
obviously when we all have free time at the same time it turns into a proper gaming session - but that's rare. For us it was this or no-game
>>
>>85538956
PF1E do I make my old dwarven grandfather (who is hunting for his kidnapped grandson) an Unchained Summoner or Vanilla Summoner?
Want to have him calling in a big robotic motherfucker that smashes down doors.
Thinking Unchained for Construct Caller archetype. Any other ideas or reasons I should go the other way?
>>
>>85539571
>not just summoning a replacement grandson
>>
>2e
>kinda wanted to do a ghost thaumaturge with a lantern
>realized this is the most useless thing imaginable
>>
>>85540118
It's probably not as bad as you think. My wife plays a divine spell list sorcerer using almost exclusively summons. It's bad but but not so bad I doesn't help a bit. Things you think are unplayable garbage in 2e in my experience are usually just OK as long as you don't deliberately sabotage them.
>>
>>85539767
Did I successfully just summon an unfeeling machine into the thread because that was fucking HEARTLESS
>>
>Kineticist Edition
1e
Are there any good long duration buffs a kineticist can grab? I can reduce the burn of Utility Talents by 1 via an archetype, but only by fucking off into the wilderness for a while. Stuff like Kinetic Form(1 burn, lasts all day)
>>
>>85540118
Isn't Ghost not that bad for a Thaumaturge? You essentially become immune to combat maneuvers. Sure, you can't do any yourself, but Thaumaturge very rarely has the required empty hand anyways.
>>
1e.

I need help boys. I'm very bad with figuring out what equipment to pick out and I'm joining a campaign late. I'm coming in at 4th level and have 3k gold to pick out items for my dirty fighter brawler. What can I get to maximize the bang for my buck?
>>
>>85541254
+1 Mithril Chain Shirt
MW Heavy Steel Shield
Not a whole lot else but some more mundane things, maybe a MW Cold-Iron Sickle for +2 when tripping and if you ruin into something needing cold iron to hit.
>>
>AP announcement was about fucking tarot cards
>rulebook was for elementals, a theme almost as boring as fey
>the ONE (1) playtest class was neither Inquisitor nor Shaman, meaning we'll be waiting for them until 2024
>new Adventure set in Thuvia, a place literally no one cares about
>no Lost Omens announcement

This Gen Con was a kick in the nuts.
>>
>>85537525
As a GM, my opinion is that the 3-action system is nice, and the more functional encounter balance is nice, but there's a LOT of jank that I have to modify for ease of the game. Running the Beginner Box after a few months years of nogaming while lurking this general, for players that had no experience with the system, there are a bunch of aspects of both game and adventure design that are baffling to me.
On the adventure design end, there's an insistence on little DC 10/15 checks for shit that does not matter like climbing up a ledge (including an entire encounter revolving around a 10ft cliff); simple traps that are meaningless skill checks against damage that can be immediately healed by another half hour of rest; multiple checks that can be brute-forced; a puzzle that can be brute-forced; and rewards for encounters that, if described as the book describes them, are easy for the players to believe are actually penalties/traps and avoid taking.
On the game design end, post-combat healing at low levels is a slog with Treat Wounds (and the book doesn't hint that it's expected at all); rune transference is a clusterfuck; encounters where one or more combatants start off Avoiding Notice/Hiding result in initiative being rolled with one side experiencing what can only be assumed to be anime-style killing intent; and there are some enemies whose mechanics require a large number of extra rolls - the Cinder Rat encounter, for example, usually more than doubled the number of d20 rolls needed to resolve a turn, as well as those d20 rolls having effects that made the encounter last longer than normal encounters.
It's not insurmountable, and switching to homebrewed adventures will probably help, but it's a pretty significant hurdle and it's made me less likely to recommend the game to others.
>>
>>85542623
>new Adventure set in Thuvia, a place literally no one cares about
The immortality elixir country is pretty cool, idk man.
>>
>>85543068
Tell me a second thing about it. Tell me how one magic item my players will never touch justifies an entire nation. One person makes the elixir - what the hell does literally every other inhabitant of the nation do?
>>
>>85543010
The coin puzzle my players spent a good 5 minutes figuring it out to get right the first time, but then didn't pull the lever because of, as you said, the way it's described verbatim by the book is pants on head retarded. My players also skipped every "optional" fight (the rat and side tunnel(?), the crypt on floor 1) so finished the box in 2 sessions. Homebrew starts next session.
>>
>>85538956
Is it weird to cosplay as your characters at the table?
>>
>>85543114
Yeah, one of my players got it nearly immediately and then I telegraphed that pulling the lever would activate the trap in a way that would make it obvious to them where in the room it was so they could avoid it.
The cinder rat rewards are similarly poorly telegraphed RAW, where the players have to investigate and touch the two remaining elemental orbs immediately after fighting a level+2 enemy that popped out of one of them. My players just assumed there were wind and earth rats in the other orbs and I didn't feel like putting my thumb on the scale for a set of temporary boons, compared to bonus XP and an easier fight for the lever.
>>
Hey bros, was thinking about running an AP. How's Tyrant's Grasp? Any recommendations?
>>
>>85543655
Worst AP ending ever.
>>
>>85543655
The ending is a bitch to swallow. Either say fuck canon and let them actually kill TB, or do what everyone on the forums says and have them reincarnate via the Kumaru Tree.

Other than that, I’ve heard the first book is a deathtrap and that introducing new/replacement PCs is difficult to justify. That said, Book 5 has my favorite setting of any AP, and I wish we could get a whole book or six days on Arcadia because of it.
>>
2e
Are there any real limits on coerce? I feel like a high intimidation character with group/quick/lasting coercion could easily force their way through most situations so long as they don't roll terribly.
>>
>>85542623
>AP
Dont use them but it sounds like an interesting plot of something stealing adventurer's heroic destinies. What do you want from an AP?
> Boring elementals
Not really, im glad paizo are starting to focus on planar sourcebooks and the elemental planes are the obvious first choice. I also want a first world book too.
>One playtest class
Fucking good. The game is getting really bloated with half baked classes. Im fine waiting for inquisitor to arrive in its own divine book. IDGAF about shaman.
>Thuvia adventure.
I would prefer adventures in places we haven't seen to flesh them out over Varisia again.
>Lost Omens
Meh, i want more setting neutral stuff like the treasure vault book.
>>
How important is non-magical healing in PF2E?
>>
>>85544615
If you don't have an out of combat healer it's critically important that someone has skill feats to do actually fast out of combat heals (and in-combat heals that don't require focus points)
>>
>>85544615
Really important. It's basically expected you'll enter each and every fight at full HP, and even a Cleric will run dry of spell slots far too quickly if you only use magical healing.
>>
>>85544615
>>85544976

The actual Heal spell is fantastic for combat usage. The pure spellcasting healing font cleric is one of the strongest combat healers in the entire game, simply because of how many Heal castings they receive each day. However, the Heal spell is too extravagant for noncombat healing.

At-will noncombat healing is mandatory. The game is balanced around the PCs topping off between combats. There are many ways to achieve at-will noncombat healing: the Continual Recovery skill feat, the Lay on Hands and Hymn of Healing focus spells, and so on. The Blessed One Dedication 2nd-level class feat hands out Lay on Hands and a Focus Point pool, making it an easy way to gain at-will noncombat healing.

It is definitely possible to skip Continual Recovery if there is at least one PC with Lay on Hands or Hymn of Healing in the party.
>>
>>85544990
You're forgetting that Witches can get Life Boost.
>>
>>85545063

Yes, Life Boost is a curious case. You probably do not want to play a witch just for Life Boost, but you can pick it up via Witch Dedication and Basic Witchcraft (Basic Lesson). It is not a bad source of noncombat healing, and it is a one-action spell for combat purposes.

Life Boost can also bring a character back from 0 Hit Points on continuous turns due to fast healing:
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=796

However, this is dangerous, as the wounded condition can cause the recipient to die outright.
>>
>>85538956
can vamps in pathfinder 1e have the sex?
>>
>>85545211
Female - yes (as long as you dont mind them *frigid*). Male - sorry but lack of blood flow means nothing gets erect. (Unless vampire enjoys being anal bottom.)
>>
>>85545211
No. Sex in pathfinder 1e is purely reserved between loving couples.
>>
>>85545189
I'm playing a Witch because I like the idea of INT healers, and because I really enjoyed playing a Hedge Witch in the 1E game before my current game.
Life Boost just made sense, and the Lesson of Life was the only lesson I took until 10 with the Lesson of Death to pick up Raise Dead.

>>85545253
>Male - sorry but lack of blood flow means nothing gets erect.
Just cast Flesh To Stone nigga
>>
>>85545253
would daywalker spell from 1e make not cold when they bang?
>>
>>85545253
This is exactly wrong, female vampires CAN have sex but are barren, meanwhile male vampires apparently still have enough juice left in them to allow for breeding dhampires.
>>
>>85545472
Eh, the dick problem is easily solved with a simple polymorph effect.
That's the reason why there is all sorts of fucked half-breeds running around in golarion.
>>
>>85545472
does books say this at all or just implied by dhamphir description?
>>
>>85542623
>boring as fey
Shut up lobotomite
>>
>>85545211
Where do you think dhampirs come from?
>>
I really hope they don't pull the same shit for Kineticist as they did for Elemental Sorcerer. Having the four elements be "fire, bludgeoning, bludgeoning and bludgeoning" is really shit.
>>
>>85545361
>Vampire casts Flesh To Stone
>Vampire casts Enlargement
>IT falls off under its own weight
rekt
>>
>>85545361
>playing a Witch
Poor guy.
>>
(first edition) How badly am I screeed if I play a Swashbuckler Goblin? Will +4 DEX and small size compensate for -2 CHA?
>>
>>85546304
Just play Inspired Blade and use INT instead of CHA.
Or dump CHA completely. You get that one point of Panache regardless and then take Extra Panache -feat for more.
Later you can take level of Gunslinger and get Wisdom based Grit Pool that stacks with Panache and can be used for swash abilities.
>>
>>85546304
swash loses basically nothing from dumping Cha
>>
Are the 3.5 environment books (Stormwrack, Frostburn, etc) worth using for material? I know people talk fondly about the Dungeoncrasher Fighter ACF
>>
The concept of E6 has existed for a while, but about E11? Since that's when martials get their third attack.
>>
>>85543823
You could sure, but it's only going to work against creatures with comparably weak will DCs.
It's also got the linguistic, emotion and mental tags so a lot of creatures will be immune. You cannot coerce many undead for instance because they're mindless and immune to mental.
And finally it's exploration only. If a group of bandits draws swords and attacks, you can't really coerce them anymore.
You'd have to find a way to halt combat somehow, then coerce them to gain their compliance.
>>
>>85547579
E6 exists to limit the spell casters to controllable levels. E11 would be kinda pointless as the full spell casters already have their game breaking spells at that point.
>>
>>85543823
Seems pretty versatile, yeah. "Modified by any circumstances the GM determines" is important, but it seems intended more for adding a +5 or +10 to the DC for circumstance than putting a hard-stop to Coerce being applicable somewhere (not that you couldn't just do that as GM anyway).
>>
>>85538956
>1e
>Rise of the Runelords
Hey guys, first time DM here. One of my players (also first time) is playing a CN Dwarf Druid of Gozreh who has been magicked from the past to the present samurai jack style, and wants to research Thassilonian artifacts in order to discover how to return home. He is a bit of a contrarian edgelord IRL so he was having a hard time RPing the very lighthearted intro session we were doing. To elaborate, I was running festival games with prizes to get everyone used to RPing and rolling. Everyone but him jumped right in and won items, he tried to outwit a riddle master, failed both in game and IRL, and won nothing. How can I better include this kind of character and player in the future of the campaign? He wants to be a bit of a loremaster but he spent the whole session lurking in the sidelines laughing about how childish everyone else was being and then getting made to look retarded, so the other characters haven't even met him yet.
>>
So, one of my players wants an memory loss background for his character and gives me free reign on it.
Give me some ideas how to make that interesting, he's playing non-archetyped half-elf sorceror if that matters.
>>
>>85549016
>sorceror
*ice elemental bloodline
>>
>>85548985
Eh, you can't really include an edgelord brooder character into more light-hearted stuff.
You can however make some customised content for such character, like making the edgelord to notice some darker undertone among the partying (something lurking in the shadows, weird magic in the air, some weird soothsayer giving dark prophesies, and so on). Those do not need to actually lead into any larger conspiracy, just play a bit along giving the edgelord something to brood over.
>>
>>85549016
Make his character gay and that's the entire background
>>
>>85549293
Well, he is playing an half-elf, so that is kinda already assumed
>>
>>85539129
How do you learn PF2e? I keep trying to read it on the websites from the links in the OP and my brain keeps recoiling from it. I don't normally have difficulty with DnD-derived systems, and I've been rocking my way through the vidya for Wrath of the Righteous recently, but 2e seems to be a blindspot for me.
>>
>>85549317
I thought part of the reason elves discriminate against them is for not being gay enough
>>
>>85549328
The first thing you need to do is to learn and memorize what the fuck all those weird action symbols mean.
Could not use words, no. Needed some special little symbols. Fuckers.
After that it gets a bit easier.
>>
>>85549364
Well, that just tells you about the elves really.
>>
>>85548269
Plus, it borks the sorcerer-like fullcasters of a spell level. E6 lands in a happy ground for just about all the classes, spare maybe noncasting 3/4th warrior/scoundrel types. But that's easily enough fixed by making a "capstone" beat that allows those sorts a second attack.
>>
>>85549395
>5 action symbols

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.
>>
>>85549490
You try to teach 64 year old half-blind woman to recognize those symbols. Fucking hell.
>>
>>85546950
Ye

>>85549395
>Being this buttblasted by a three action system that dictates how many actions it used by 1-3 action symbols
I'm convinced people who can't understand this wear fucking velcro
>>
>>85549328
I just read the core rule book. It was not confusing to me. What are you having difficulty with?
>>
psychic is really cool.
>>
PF2e question here.
How do you feel about how they handled multiclassing and prestige classes? I haven't tried it yet but it looks gutted, like they wanted to fix min-maxers dipping everywhere but went overboard
>>
>>85550471
I'd kill for real multiclassing in 2e, the archetype system is too boring
>>
>>85550471
I hated it, but now I honestly love it but with the caveat of never playing without free archetype and waiving the minimum 2 additional feats before selecting another for the starting archetype. Don't lose progression in your main class and you get to cherry pick the bits you want from other classes or archetype
>>
>>85549544
>64 year old half-blind woman
Any one of the 3 parts to this statement is enough for me to kick this player regardless of the game
Maybe not dominoes but sounds like she'd fuck up Scrabble for fucks sake
>>
>>85550471
As it is, it sucks badly. With Free Archetype it becomes more tolerable while also fixing the blandness of the classes somewhat.
The real multiclassing could be an interesting addition, though I have no idea how it would work with 2e.
>>
>>85550541
Believe or not, she is actually pretty good player. Trying to teach her 2e, especially the symbols is completely hopeless though.
>>
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Were the 3e core rules (the 2000 ones, not 3.5) never released digitally?

I'm curious about how 3e changed over the engine's 19 year run - but it seems like the 3.0 PHB and DMG are only available as secondhand books. Were they ever released digitally? I can only find 3.5 core books.
>>
>>85550741
Yeah they existed but everything was an ocr scan. Even the 3.5 shit was ocr scan too until the very later age of the game
Are they not in share thread, maybe DaCurated?
Fairly sure I have them knocking about including the old 3.0 psionics, mm2, and stuff like masters of x series, I'll have a look around in the next week
>>
>>85550528
Yeah I always play with free archetype and I love the system.
>>
>>85550471
I like it because there aren't any trap or power choices and it only really serves as a way to shop for holes in your action economy or character concept.
Human sorcerer takes swash dedication at 2 and One for all at 4.
They now have a really good third action and reaction.
Wizard takes rogue dedication at 2 and nimble dodge at 4.
They now have light armor training, an additional skill feat and a good reaction.
Irori paladin takes monk dedication at 2 and ki strike at 4. They now have smiting fists as an encounter power and can obtain flurry later.

It might be somewhat overboard, but I think this is preferable to players taking three class dips for power features at a faster rate than they'd have obtained them by simply advancing their class levels.
>>
>>85550820
I was kicking around the share thread and didn't see it; and it seems like people were complacent given the trove website and got caught with their pants down when it got nuked. I don't like giving WOTC money; but it's not even on DTRPG like the 3.5 core.
>>
>>85550471
Works better than classic multiclassing for the system they have. A bit annoying that they did away with an untyped feat pool to give every class its own unique feats, and did away with most of the classic feat taxes, but then proceeded to move back towards an untyped feat pool with feat taxes by constantly publishing new archetypes instead of adding class feat support for already-published classes.
It absolutely is still for min-maxers.
>>
>>85550497
>>85550528
>>85550573
>>85550925
>>85550939
I kinda like the idea of it for prestige classes but I feel like the goofiness level went down. I played a Wizard 10/Aldori Swordlord 10 in a game a year ago and that was a lot of fun but it doesn't look as viable in 2e to do stupid shit like that.
>>
>>85550977
Literally one level of a dedication gives you full access to casting via scrolls and wands. Adding casting to classes is actually brokenly cheap in 2e. Scrolls and wands become so cheap by the mid game if your DM is following the recommended gold curve that you might as well be a full caster.
>>
Anyone have any tips for a 2e Laughing Shadow Magus?
>>
>>85551958
You can teleport to allies with dimensional assault. Or close to them if they have reach.
Don't feel like you need to do the empty hand thing for a small damage boost. Holding a scroll in your offhand is a very good idea.
The bonus damage from cascade is mostly there to trigger weaknesses. Don't feel obligated to have it up all the time.
>>
guys I got a question(1e)
I'm looking to make a mount via Animate Dead, is there something faster than the horse that I can nab?
Undead or constructs are basically my only option because even at level 6 my character needs to travel ~18000 feet, performing an action every 3000 feet(46 rounds via horse using the Run action) in the morning while the spellcasters are preparing. And it just gets worse the higher the level I go. My character doesn't need to make such a long trip every morning, but does need to to be in tip top shape for dungeon crawls and other difficult events
Blighted Defiler archetype if you were wondering why such travel is needed, the druids are gonna be pissed
>>
>>85552302
>spoiler
Lel, get fucked tree huggers
>>
>>85550925
>there aren't any trap or power choices
There absolutely are lmao.
>>
>>85538956
Just watched Prey, and now I want a tomahawk on a cord in 1e. Do I just tie some rope to a throwing axe and treat it as an improvised reach weapon?
>>
Anons, what's your favorite AP? I'm not asking for the best. I just want to know which one you personally like most and why.
>>
>>85549608
You can hate on pf2e for alot of things but you have to be an absolute brainlet to not understand the 3 action system.
>>
how do I find PF 1e PDFs, link in pastebin is ded
>>
>>85555040
humble bundle occasionally
>>
>>85552156
>Don't feel like you need to do the empty hand thing for a small damage boost. Holding a scroll in your offhand is a very good idea.
It's such a minor damage boost that I'd honestly recommend using a two-handed weapon - the average damage is the same, the damage cap is higher, and with the way weapon dice scale, it'll only get more favourable for two-hander people as levels increase.
>>
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>>85538956
Does anyone have experience getting adventure pack maps printed at miniature scale, like where the squares are 1-inch in size? How did you do it?
>>
>>85555803
We had A4 sized maps for a while until we moved completely to online.
Used sewing pin "flags" as characters, with printed A4 map taped on pinboard. It worked well enough.
>>
>>85550977
Wizard 20 with Aldori Duellist, picking up prof with general feat is perfectly viable tho?
Free archetype is pretty much a ubiquitous game rule and lets you be a full caster with a side of martial skill. Sure no master prof, but that's where you begin to expend your magical resources to make you a martial dude
https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=182
Alternatively, Fighter with some spell dedications. A fighter with +3 to his attack rolls on any other class until magic weapon treasure kicks in is pretty fucking valid
Alternatively magus+Aldori
Or Champion and Aldori
>>
So besides ruining 3 acres of land per level per day(plants get diminished and have their productivity halved for a year, small critters without stats get murked.), what are some of the best ways to piss off the tree huggers?
>>
>>85555174
aren't there any seas I can sail yohoho?
>>
>>85555935
That's not a bad idea. We have a dry erase board with 1x1 squares but I think it won't nearly be big enough for place like Thistletop in Rise of the Runelords for example.
>>
[1e] Is there any way to make use of extremely high Knowledge skills in combat? I see a lot of feats and a couple archetypes that give bonuses on a successful knowledge check, but nothing that scales with exceptional knowledge checks other than Baneful Judgement, and even then it only affects duration.
>>
>>85556606
Kirin style feat chain. Monster Spotter can be also useful with high knowledge skills, and Disconcerting Knowledge lets you replace intimidate with knowledge.
>>
>>85556606
Kirin Style?
>>
>>85556742
>>85556749
>after spending a swift action to enter the stance, and a second swift action to identify, you can spend a third fucking swift action to deal maybe 12 damage
>needs IUS despite not affecting unarmed strike
>can't get the only marginally useful part of it until 12th level
Absolutely disgusting
Also, while 15 + CR is a decently high dc, exceeding it doesn't give any benefit besides the normal extra pieces of info.
>>
>>85556606
If you want to get really consistent with knowledge checks, have this
https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Servant%20in%20the%20House%20of%20Truth
>>
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1e
would Freedom of Movement spell work against a web spewed by spiders and araneas.
What about traps?

>This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.
the part that makes me ask this is that the above specifically says 'influence of magic'. I am not sure of giant spiders shooting webbing involves magic. Or giant spiders just weaving a web trap.
>>
>>85556874
While it doesn't scale, Student of War's capstone lets you ignore natural DR and crit/sneak attack immunity if you hit 20 + CR.
>>
>>85557153
>even under
It specifically includes magic, does not exclude other stuff
>>
>>85557153
You're missing a word
>EVEN under the influence of magic
It's the biggest fuck you to everything
>>
>>85556742
>>85556874
Such a god damn shame about Kirin style
It's "almost" a great pick for say an investigator, and would be flavorful as hell
but the whole swift action stacking just kills the entire thing

I personally would allow any play to drop the IUS prereq, merge Kirin Style with a typical knowledge check (free action) and have Kirin Strike's combat stamina version be the default function (1x int mod to all damage rolls, 2x by spending a swift action that turn)

I don't think this would be overpowered, though someone might give some advise on further balancing?
>>
>>85557221
>>85557228
right, missed that. thanks.
Would difficult terrain be included or would it be considered 'move normally' that you have to scramble over uneven rocky ground of a cave floor.
>>
>>85557221
>>85557228
>>85557340
If you can't be trapped by someone dropping a giant web or net on you, how far does that extend?
Immune to tornado trying to pick you up and whirl you around?
Can you hang out in a water vortex like you just don't care?
Are you immune to getting buried by an avalanche?
>>
1e.
Is the Huge spider in this picture considered flanked between that elf-girl face and the zombie ogre?
>>
>>85557753
no, one of them have to move 5 feet up to be flanking
Draw a line between the center of elfgirl's square and one of the big guy's squares
>>
>>85538956
2e what are your top three favorite runes, and why?
>>
>>85558060
Shifting can be fun with athletics builds.
Law rune is just goofy on its critical effect which amuses me. All the damage runes are bis if they apply of course.
Returning is awesome on thrown weapons.
Extending can be a lifesaver if you have minimal ranged options.
>>
>>85558060
Have a hiatus game with a Tyrant Champion/Flames oracle inflicting a ton of bleeds, mental drain and fire damage over time
>bloodthirsty =Drained
Grievous Flaming Returning Javelins were also a big component of the game until I changed into Great Axe for Instrument of Slaughter
>>
>>85557420
>>85557420
Freedom of movement lets you move freely but it doesn't stop you being moved. Tornado could easily pick you up and throw you, but you could willingly move out
You are forgetting key components to like being able to breath while within a water vortex or avalanche
>>
>>85554014
Iron Gods is the one I think about most, because killing an AI from another galaxy and helping a dead android qt ascend to godhood in a fantasy setting kicks ass... but the AP itself is almost entirely dungeon crawl. Part of the reason I want a sequel so bad is that PF2 seems to do significantly better at that.

Strength of Thousands is the one I actually dream about running/playing most. I like the non-violent focus, I like the African setting a lot, and Book 4 has some of the coolest shit ever in it when you're doing diplomacy with an LE city-state run by a petulant child-mummy-god.
>>
>>85554014
Serpent's Skull. Yeah, it has some really lackluster parts, but i'm a sucker for the snakepeople.
>>
>>85554014
There's a reason why the only AP I've run is Shattered Star, I'm a sucker for fetch quests.
>>
>>85560907
Shattered Star is great. It's got some good encounters and I'm a big fan of the theme.
>>
>>85554014
I have been enjoying running Strange Aeons so far.
There's something pleasurable in terrorizing my players, though I do admit that I have rewritten like 80% of the content to be more traumatizing or terrifying.
It's been 4 months and my players are still talking about that dark room encounter with Attic Whisperer.
>>
>>85558700
touche
>>
>>85543010
They do a lot of useless checks because the Module is meant to make completely new TTRPG players familiar with rolling dice and using skills.
It's like complaining that a tutorial in a video game forces you to play in a certain way.
You can obviously skip untrained (DC 14) or lower checks in your game. Thats what I do.

I also opted to use the Stamina Variant in my game, which makes after battle healing faster but not totally imbalanced.
I also like the flavor, that not every battle means you get brutally wounded and then rebound after 10 minutes of getting patched up.

Rune Transference is easy as fuck to understand. You either do it yourself if you have magical crafting and put a runestone on an item, or use that same skill to transfer from item to item. Or you just pay a blacksmith 3 GP for the transfer.

As someone who used to GM 5e and is still finishing playing in a 5e campaign, and knows P1, its just much more elegant in my opinion.
Mind you I do miss some grimy stuff like rolling for HP and stuff like that, but preping sessions and running games is sooo much easier.
One player can't make it? Just give some enemies the WEAK template until the Budget works, and you are done. Takes like 1 Minute per encounter.

The only thing that actually sucks rn is Crafting, but they'll release additional rules early next year.
>>
>>85560235
>Iron Gods
I've heard really nice things about this and my dm plans to run it (or a similar homebrew project) at some point.
>>
>>85561831
Brace for your butthole to be shattered. Build your character around negating Hardness or enjoy being completely defanged in combat.

And most importantly, have fun!
>>
1e.
Trying to figure out what kind of bullshit can a succubus pull off.
General plan: Ethereal Jaunt into a large chamber with 4 guards.
Dismiss the spell, appearing in plain sight but out of current view of any of the 4 guards, directly behind one of them.
Use her Suggestion on each on of them while making no sound .
Attack on of them targeting flat footed AC because he is unaware she is right behind him.

Trying to balance RAI with sanity and determine which of the above, if any is against the rules.
1 - Is there any rulings that indicate that dismissing Ethereal Jaunt would produce any sound that might attract attention of an alert creature standing right in front?
2 - Is it reasonable that a Spell Like Ability could be used 4 times behind an alert enemy without them noticing
3 - Is it reasonable to give the guards no Spot or Listen checks for a succubus trying to be stealthy as she does all the above and than attacks?
>>
>>85562171
>1 - Is there any rulings that indicate that dismissing Ethereal Jaunt would produce any sound that might attract attention of an alert creature standing right in front?
"If the duration line ends with “(D),” you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell’s effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell’s verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity."
But Succubus Ethereal Jaun is a Spell Like ability that has no components, so there should be no sound.
Do note however that it is implied in rules that the most spells have some visual effects when they happen(or are dismissed), so the DM could rule that there happens some flash of light, flood of air, or whatever that could alert the guards.
>2 - Is it reasonable that a Spell Like Ability could be used 4 times behind an alert enemy without them noticing
As I mentioned, it is implied in rules that even the spells without components do have some visual effects accompanied with them(unless otherwise mentioned), but it depends a lot on DM how much he wants to enforce that.
>3 - Is it reasonable to give the guards no Spot or Listen checks for a succubus trying to be stealthy as she does all the above and than attacks?
I think you should give the checks if there is any chance that they could make them with a good enough roll. Otherwise, why bother?
>>
>>85557846
No, that's 2e.
>>
>>85562412
it's 1e
>When in doubt about whether two characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two attackers’ centers. If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent’s space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.

>Exception: If a flanker takes up more than 1 square, it gets the flanking bonus if any square it occupies counts for flanking.
>>
There was a setting campaign guide; which was like all super futury and it had a techomancer? technopath class in it.

Does that sound familiar to anyone, before spheres people would point to that class if you wanted tech
>>
>>85563063
Starfinder?
>>
>>85563063
That is the most autistic file name I've ever read
>>
>>85563063

That's either the Technology Guide or Numeria, Land of Fallen Stars. There's also some related stuff in People of the Wastes and People of the Stars.
>>
>>85563535
You've never seen a tag system, anon?
>>
This is driving me nuts, think it's 3.5e and by Monte Cook but am unable to find it:

It was an alternate plane, where you could only cast cantrips and I think 1st Level spells, time sometimes briefly ran backwards (moving charas around/refilling health/etc), and I think you navigated by climbing reeds/vines or something that was native to it instead of gravity?

I may be partly misremembering but it's pretty vivid and I can't find it again. Anybody remember this?
>>
>>85563082
>>85563545
It wasnt actually golarion.

>>85563535
have more
>>
>players rushing up stairs carved into cliff toward orc fortress
>when they get to the top after going up like 500 steps I told them, after going up all those steps you are fatigued for 1 minute
>I told them, you can keep going, and be fatigued while fighting the orcs (-2 str and -2 Dex) or you can rest for a minute and not be fatigued, but the orcs will be prepared for you and in formation
>players decide to go ahead
>miss by 1 a couple times
>players start seething over it and one of them throws his d20
>no one even dies, they just take slightly more damage than they would have otherwise
Why is everyone so asshurt about anything that goes outside the basic rules? Was it really that shitty tonsid temporary fatigue for a bunch of characters who just rushed up 200 feet of steps? While carrying heavy packs? I'm in decent shape and even I would need a moment to catch my breath before going into a battle after running up 250 steps.
>>
>>85563555
Not one that autistic. Even normal autists would just label it anime girl in room with book or some shit.
>>85563582
YWNBAW
>>
>>85563711
>>
Since guides have never been updated, I'm making an exocortex mechanic in the dead suns game. Any talents that are required to make him useful in a party of six? The spell casters are going nuts now and I don't want to be dead-weight. Had been focusing on overcharge for damage.
>>
anons I just ran my first session of skulls and shackles and in actually running it im seeing some issues, any advice for them?

If Im reading it right wouldnt the constant average of 2 con damage from rum rations potentially kill the party? The path also seems to want you to try and steal gear but it looks to me most valuable things in the path are locked behind effectively unpickable locks, or are like the path notes likely to get you keelhauled. I also suspect the work cycle might get dull

Oh and the attempted murder in the bilges really looks like it could just be a death sentance for a pc with bad initiative. Any Advice for me? Am I missing something?
>>
>>85563857
A person heals 1 ability damage per day with 8 hours of rest
if someone uses the heal skill to provide long term care to another party member, they heal 2 ability damage per day with 8 hours of rest
you can provide long term care for up to 6 people
>>
>>85563857
The Rum is bullshit, everyone running SnS changes that because otherwise some of the players and all the crew would die in a few weeks at best.
In general, Skull and Shackles is a very popular AP, particularly when pf1e was at its most popular: check its sub-forum on Paizo's website, there's really a lot of stuff there.
>>
>>85563700
>this is my action hero story and the mooks shouldn't interfere
You gave them their choice, they can deal with the consequences. RNG goes both ways and that's fine so long as you're consistent & fair in your approach with it.
>>
>>85563700
How could they be upset if you told them the risk of pressing on (fighting with fatigue) vs the payoff of resting for one minute (the orcs are in formation). They weighed their options and picked one, it's not really your fault if it was a suboptimal choice
>>
1e. How the fuck is the pack flanking feat supposed to function? How does an animal companion get a feat that requires the ability to have an animal companion?
>>
>>85548985
Interesting. How far into the past is the character's time of origin?
>>
>>85564576
Hunter's 3rd level class feature grants all your teamwork feats to your companion and allows that companion to ignore the prerequisites of those feats
>>
>>85564618
>tfw not playing hunter
>tfw don't want to be a hunter
This is bullshit desu
>>
>>85564775
What's your class/build?
>>
>>85564805
WIP mad dog barbarian. Trying to get pack flanking to work so I can easily pull AoO shenanigans with Paired Opportunists, Come And Get Me and the AoO's off of animal companion combat maneuvers granted by the archetype
>>
>>85561742
>They do a lot of useless checks because the Module is meant to make completely new TTRPG players familiar with rolling dice and using skills.
>It's like complaining that a tutorial in a video game forces you to play in a certain way.
Ideally, the tutorial in a video game doesn't showcase poor design, though. When you're rolling 10+ checks to climb down a 10ft cliff out of combat, you're learning in part how to roll dice/skill checks, yes, but you're also learning how the game expects challenges to be set up, what its design principles are.
Some of these useless skill checks come in pretty late, too - there's another 10ft cliff later on (Area 6) that's halfway through the 1st floor, well after the players have rolled Athletics to climb down the first cliff, Acrobatics to sneak past a spider, and most likely Crafting/Thievery to dismantle a barricade.
>You can obviously skip untrained (DC 14) or lower checks in your game. Thats what I do.
I did in fact have the players skip the useless checks; this is not my first time GMing a system. I am complaining that the BB recommends that people roll them in the first place - there's no place where it pulls the curtain aside and says, "We're having you roll all these checks for the purposes of getting acquainted with skills." And it doesn't shy away from explaining what it's teaching in plenty of other places; one of the things I think is actually commendable on its part is the way its combat encounters introduce new mechanics.
>>
>>85561742
>Rune Transference is easy as fuck to understand. You either do it yourself if you have magical crafting and put a runestone on an item, or use that same skill to transfer from item to item. Or you just pay a blacksmith 3 GP for the transfer.
It's done through a modified version of the Craft activity, so it has to jump through a lot of the same hoops.
You need Magical Crafting, which newbies are not going to know to take.
It has to be of your level or lower (so if you're level 3 and found a Striking rune on a weapon that doesn't work with anyone's loadout, you're SoL until you level up).
You need the formula of it RAW as well, so hope you have that.
It takes a day of downtime, which is wasted if you fail the Crafting check that you have to make, so you'll need multiple days/checks a lot of the time.
And runestones are effective at normal transference, not swapping. If you want to swap out a property rune (or recoup part of the cost of e.g. a Striking rune when upgrading to a Greater Striking rune), you need to first transfer the old rune to a second weapon, then transfer the new rune onto your main weapon, costing extra downtime and requiring more checks.
Also, you cannot simply pay a skilled hireling to do this for you, because of the level requirement. But assuming there's no level requirement, they have bonuses of +4 and the DC scales. For a simple Striking rune, they'll have 30% odds of succeeding at the check, and 25% odds of wasting the GP needed to transfer the rune.

There's a good reason PFS waives most of these rules and just has an NPC at the lodges that will transfer runes of any kind for free without a check. My houserule is that it's a 10-minute activity requiring no check or GP expenditure.
>>
So help me see if I got this right, i want to be properly prepared in advance to minimize fuss for the gm.

I have a lvl5 conjuration(teleportation) wizard with augment summons.

If i cast summon monster III I can get a celestial crocodile with 4 more str and con.

https://www.aonprd.com/MonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Crocodile

After 1 round i make it appear in a charge lane. It charges, smites (if evil) and bites with +9 for 1d8+7 then grabs with a cmb of +13 and if successful a death roll for 1d8 +9 and a trip with +9.

Next turn if everything worked the croc is grappled the victim is grappled and prone. Croc maintains grapple does bite damage and death rolls again?
Since it grapples it can't tail slap?
>>
>>85565574
Ah. I forgot that smite adds hit dice to damage i only added +1. So all damages should be one more vs evil and one less vs neutral.
Next level up I could get evolved summons so I could summon a sticky crocodile for another +4 on grapples to grab or maintain.
>>
>>85565428
After playing 2 campaigns with fundamental runes, im going to jump to ABP for my next one. It forces a shitty spiral of forcing me to hand out these runes instead of interesting treasure and pcs only being able to afford 1 weapon that is up to standard of their power level.
>>
>>85562366
thank you
>>
are there any youtube channels out there with 3.5 / pf1 content? like anything - adventure discussion, memes/skits, build discussion?
all my searches just come with 5e or pf2e stuff.
>>
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Live by the woke, get eaten by the woke
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>>85566937
>>85566944
fuck off
>>
>>85566937
Nice job reposting months old news?
My table still has slavery. Who cares what Paizo says
>>
>>85566336
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O4zUutwED2U
>>
>>85566980
ty

>>85566944
no one got eaten though, disappointing
>on a related note
PCs at my table now using captured enemies as loot, planning to sell them off at the slave market once they get back to a major settlement
Anyone can help me estimate how much an aranea should sell for? they've killed all the males and captured 6 female ones, using them for all the camp chores and to help them loot a cave. I am thinking of upsetting them by having the city officials deem the creatures too dangerous to be traded, but on the other hand, that's like telling the players 'become murderhobos'
>>
>>85567054
1e or 2e?
>>
>>85567074
1e
>>
>>85567074
>>85567083
actually to be precise, these are araneas used 3.5 edition statblocks (basically average 3hd sorcerers with spider form and poison)
>>
>>85567054
>I am thinking of upsetting them by having the city officials deem the creatures too dangerous to be traded, but on the other hand, that's like telling the players 'become murderhobos'
You could, if going that way, have the officials say the creatures are too dangerous to be traded *here*, but you could try elsewhere.
Maybe a reverse fetch quest to find the place that would take them would be fitting.
It would be a nice compromise between "can't take slaves, kill any captives" and "yeah sure, everyone likes slavery".

Or even just have some places hate slavery and some love it, with place in between of course, and your players have to navigate the different economies.
>>
>>85567083
https://aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Slave
I would say Aranea is a specialized slave, though you could probably increase the price if there is higher demand for those
>>
>>85567120
I already have it pretty much like this - the little valley they are adventuring in is a semi-independent province between a large realm that doesn't allow slavery at all and two smaller countries where slavery is perfectly legal. In the province they are in, it only legal as punishment for criminals in lieu of execution. The aranea kind-of qualify since they were part of a large bandit raiding party.
>>85567155
Would 1k to 2k haggling range per each be too much? I am trying to account for these being 3rd level sorcerers that know magic missile, sleep and mage armor + female so there is potential for sex slave use along with using them for their magic abilities. Would have to be a pretty extravagant buyer to take the risk of trying to keep 6 shapeshifting spiders around.
I've been looking up araneas trying to get a gauge of what kind of mindset they might have because this idea to capture the monsters came completely out of the blue and I have no idea what kind of society if any these araneas are supposed to be from. So far just said
>little enclaves living in the mountains several hundred miles north of here, in the unclaimed wild lands.
>>
>>85567251
>Would 1k to 2k haggling range per each be too much?
Eh, probably unless your PCs also provide some methods for controlling powerful dangerous spellcasting creatures. Though I guess some rich and powerful pervert could easily pay that if he wants, but that kind of gentleman should be difficult for your PCs to find.
>>
>>85565112
Why do you need Pack Flanking for that? Also, assuming you and your companion aren't the same size, have you considered Blades Above and Below?
>>
https://paizo.com/pathfinderplaytest
>>
>>85569687
Thanks brother. The streamer who i was forced to watch wouldnt share the fucking link.
>>
>>85569687
>only one of the four elements gets to actually deal elemental damage
>no way in this to deal acid, electricity, or sonic damage

well done paizo
>>
(1e) What are some druid-like powers you can gain via feats and items?
>>
>>85564576
Get a Horsemaster's Saddle when you can afford the 12000 price tag
>>
>>85569866
read the impluse feats
>>
>>85570142
>read the impluse feats
MF theres nothing for Acid, 2 feats for Electricity, and a few for Cold
>>
>>85569687

Some issues I notice with the kineticist, right out of the metaphorical gate:

• Impulse actions are the backbone of the kineticist. Virtually everything a kineticist will be doing in combat will have the impulse trait. The impulse trait comes with the manipulate trait, which means it provokes Attacks of Opportunity. Additionally, if a kineticist uses an action with the overflow trait, their element disappears, which means that the kineticist must Gather Element again... and Gather Element has the manipulate trait. In any battle wherein there are enemies with Attack of Opportunity, a kineticist should be highly wary of attempting any melee impulse actions. It is best for a kineticist to be ranged, or to use a martial one-handed reach Elemental Weapon.

• A kinetic aura is a 10-foot emanation. As far as I am aware, this means it lacks the 10/15-foot diagonal squares afforded by a reach weapon, which means that an inconvenient gap exists. It would certainly be a good quality of life upgrade for kinetic auras to have the 10/15-foot diagonal gap covered.

• Expert proficiency is delayed to 7th level for no discernible reason. If someone can explain to me why a kineticist deserves to have their expert proficiency come two levels late, I would be happy to know.

• A kineticist is a Constitution key ability score class. However, aside from all of the standard benefits, a kineticist uses Constitution for exactly two things, both of which class feats and are therefore optional. Firstly, if a kineticist takes the Elemental Familiar 1st-level feat, the familiar uses the kineticist's Constitution modifier to determine its Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers. Secondly, if a kineticist takes the Aura Shaping 8th-level class feat, their Constitution modifier determines the number of creatures that can be exempted. How very odd. Either a kineticist should have more uses for Constitution, or this class should be have key Strength or Dexterity.
>>
>>85570304
I'm guessing they'll add more in the full release but the varied elemental damage is all probably coming from those.
>>
Would the elemental weapon gain the traits from the kineticists handwraps?
>>
Paizo, how hard is it to do this

Element Damage
Fire --> Bludgeoning or Fire
Water --> Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Cold
Earth --> Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Acid
Air --> Bludgeoning or Electricity

Chose one element, one damage type, get more as you level/take Class feats

Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing deal base 1d6
Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity deal base 1d4

All Elements range increment 30ft(feature later to increase to 60ft, 120, and 240ft)

All Blasts have the Two-Hand trait, raise the damage die up one size

Melee blasts add Constitution
Ranged blasts add Half Constitution

Class Feats to make blasts Agile, Finesse, Versatile, all that other shit
>>
>>85570401
Thats annoying considering only fire can take advantage of stuff like conduct energy. They should just allow air and water to have energy blasts.
>>
Kineticist just have gathered all we love in Pf2. Melee attacks that trigger AoO, non-attacking key ability scores and expert weapon proficiency only at level 7, a free hand requirement. Wow, Paizo, great job
>>
>>85570543
too op to allow more rare elemental damage than fire.
>>
>>85570543
make fire deal base 1d6, everything and their mother resists it
>>
1e
Is there any cheap (for a below CR4 NPC) potions or similar that could cause an visible mutations (enlarged hands, muscles, ect)?
I don't want to give alchemist levels for that creature as it is powerful enough as it is, but I would like it to have sort of mr Hyde transformation.
>>
>>85570580
The only thing it's missing is needing a roll to Gather Element.
>>
>>85570580

Yes, the kineticist is very clearly a "greatest hits" of annoying mechanics that people are sick of.

>>85571125

There is a non-negligible chance that that goes into the final version.
>>
>>85570580
Don't forget the having to waste an action on a pseudo reload to use your abilities again.
>>
>>85571016
Bone Fists IIRC?
>>
>>85571205
>The bones of your targets’ joints grow thick and sharp, protruding painfully through the skin at the knuckles, elbows, shoulders, spine, and knees.
That works, thanks!
>>
Am I reading Wings of Air right? It seems like you can just get endless flight with it since there's nothing stopping your from recasting it at will. It doesn't even expend your element.
>>
Why even bother playing kineticist when all its options are just weaker than flickmace fighter
>>
>>85570384

>• A kineticist is a Constitution key ability score class. However, aside from all of the standard benefits, a kineticist uses Constitution for exactly two things, both of which class feats and are therefore optional. Firstly, if a kineticist takes the Elemental Familiar 1st-level feat, the familiar uses the kineticist's Constitution modifier to determine its Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth modifiers. Secondly, if a kineticist takes the Aura Shaping 8th-level class feat, their Constitution modifier determines the number of creatures that can be exempted. How very odd. Either a kineticist should have more uses for Constitution, or this class should be have key Strength or Dexterity.

Correction: Constitution is used for class DC, which affects various impulses. That is some MAD right there.

• Constitution key ability (apparently used for class DC) means that at certain level bands, such as 1st to 4th and 10th to 14th, a kineticist will be missing a point of ability modifier on Strength- and Dexterity-based attacks. And there is a non-negligible chance that a kineticist will want to make many of those.
>>
I would like to point out just how trivial a ribbon Adapt Element is. From 1st to 10th level: "Choose a non-magical portion of an element you can channel that’s within 10 feet of you. It must be either unattended or attended by a willing creature, of negligible Bulk, and no larger than can fit in the palm of a human hand—such as a small rock, a torch flame, or a twig. The portion must be loose to be altered—you couldn’t move a small stone that was mortared into a wall, for example." Note, negligible Bulk, not light Bulk.

It takes until 7th level to affect light Bulk. It takes until 11th level to affect Bulk 1.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=187
According to this page, an item of 5 to 10 pounds is 1 Bulk, provided that it is not of unwieldy shape. 5 pounds is 2,267.96185 grams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite#Physical_properties
According to Wikipedia, granite has an average density of 2.7 grams per cubic centimeter. That is 0.097543688400942 pounds per cubic inch.

To get 5 pounds of granite, we need 51.25908279629617 cubic inches. A 2.30441525-inch-radius sphere gets us that volume.

In other words, a 10th-level earth kineticist looks at a 2.3-inch-radius sphere of granite and goes "Uuuu, too heavy for me to elementally lift~"
>>
>>85571662
>Uuuu, too heavy for me to elementally lift~
Please do not use these threads to erp.
>>
>>85568567
>>85570140
Fuck, pack flanking was a holdover from back when I was considering snapping flank too. Thanks for making take a closer look anons.
>>
>>85570680
>too op to allow more rare elemental damage than fire.

I don't know if you serious, but thats bullshit. Its okay to be able to set fire to shit all day long, but we can't let Elements™ The Class have the power to be Storm or Iceman

>>85570714
>make fire deal base 1d6, everything and their mother resists it

Very true, I like it
>>
How do you guys handle situations where the noise of fighting and such logically must have alerted the enemies in the neighbouring room?
I'd like to run my games as "realistically" as possible, but this Paizo dungeon system is giving me grey hairs with the enemies being assumed to be just standing around in neighbouring room while their friends are getting loudly wiped out.
>>
>>85571287
yes, you get permanent flight, it's not "as" overpowered as it looks
it has a dual prerequisite of the Air element and one of 2 utility talents which will become largely useless
And it works like the spell so it's not quite true flight speed

and remember you're a kineticist, not a fullcaster, you can't quite take as much advantage of it and there's a good number of races that could get you a fly speed anyways

it's pretty much mandatory to take if you're going air kineticist that's for sure but it's just a "cool class feature"
>>
So, do all devoted worshippers of Zon Kuthon just turn into Kytons after death? The formation process for them seems to indicate that anyone who make sadism and masochism a core part of their life likely eventually becomes one, so how does that work.
>>
>>85570384
>>85571485

As far as I can tell, relying on the kineticist's Strikes is a significant trap. They are nothing more than plinking with a subpar weapon. The Strikes come with no inherent accuracy bonus, damage bonus, or action compression. They provoke Attacks of Opportunity even as melee Strikes. At various level bands, such as 1st to 4th and 10th to 14th, they will also be lagging behind by 1 ability modifier. Expert attack proficiency being delayed to 7th level further disincentivizes relying on the Strikes.

If you are a kineticist, and you are relying on the Strikes, you are probably playing the class in a suboptimal manner. If you are playing a Strength kineticist, you are doubly screwing yourself over, because you are getting virtually nothing meaningful. It is not as if you will have spare actions with which to Strike, because three-action infusions and/or the overflow trait will make you rapidly incinerate actions. A kineticist practically has to beg to be Hasted, and even if that happens, Elemental Blast is technically ineligible for the extra quickened action from Haste.

Even then, the impulses just are not that good. Something like Storm Spiral (air 6th) initially looks amazing as an at-will ability, but then you notice at its three-action cost, its overflow trait (forcing the kineticist to spend a fourth action just to Gather Element), and its 30-foot range.

The only impulses that I would call truly, genuinely special for their level are Flinging Updraft (air 4th) for its enemy repositioning, Wings of Air (air 8th) for at-will flight, Rock Rampart (earth 12th) for being Wall of Stone for two actions without overflow, Tidal Hands (water 1st) for being no-nonsense damage in a decent area at the cost of overflow, and Barrier of Boreal Frost (water 14th) for being Wall of Ice with, sadly, three actions plus overflow.
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>>85572398
how do you worship the god of BDSM without making it a core part of your life?
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>>85572398
Eh, I'm not actually completely sure if Pharasma does sent souls into Shadow Plane if they pass through her judgement.

Of course there is rituals that make the soul bypass the judgement and go to Shadow Plane that the most devout followers of Zon Kuthon propably use on themselves (in addition of their victims), but if his follower dies without the ritual? I'm not sure what happens if the follower was not important enough for Zon to intervene directly in Pharasmas judgement.
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>>85572416

Then again, a kineticist might be forced to Strike from time to time. Overflow is such, such, such a stifling mechanic. A kineticist cannot afford to root themselves into one spot. A kineticist has to Stride around to secure decent AoE targeting, and in battles against Attack of Opportunity, a kineticist must Step out of melee enemy reach.

A kineticist has a completely wretched action economy, and I can see this being decent only in the loosest and most forgiving of gameplay environments.
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>>85572328
Give the players a magic item that can stop the sound of battle from leaving the area
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>>85572328
as far as the rules are concerned, two doors(+5 perception DC each) completely cancel out the sounds of battle(-10 to perception DC)
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>>85542623
>elementals, a theme almost as boring as fey
I can agree that elementals are boring, but what's boring about fey?
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>>85571662
Compare this to 1e Kineticist which is literally able to lift 100 pounds of material PER LEVEL if your base element is Aether. 2e cucks all of its classes so badly it's physically painful.
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>>85572416
>They provoke Attacks of Opportunity even as melee Strikes.
I wonder if this could be a good thing in a way? If you focus on damage mitigation, such as archetyping for full plate, wearing a shield, and using scrolls for temp hp, you can use your con stat to force AoOs from less intelligent enemies and allow an actually useful class like a magus or even another kineticist to get past it?
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>>85571437
Because not all of us are autists who want to win at pathfinder?
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>>85572502
>>85572398
iirc from last thread, it almost sounded as if their soul yeets itself over to the shadow plane through the sheer power of degeneracy. Some BDSM rituals were mentioned, though I think they were left generic like "be tortured super hard for X amount of time before succumbing to death".
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>>85573023
Eating all the AoOs is never a good strategy in 2e regardless of your build or team composition.
Unless you want to roll a new character or something.
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>>85573096
Nah, it is not that simple to avoid Pharasmas judgement.
You probably need some serious magic involved, and a weakened veil between material and shadow plane or some shit.
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>>85573176
>Nah, it is not that simple
Kytons escaped their prison in hell and went to the shadow plane through sheer willpower. Never doubt the power of pure degeneracy
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>>85573023
No. With how high monster numbers are (especially for AoO monster since those are often made to attack), intentionally provoking is too dangerous.
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>>85573230
Mate, fucking imps have tendency to just pop on other planes for joy rides. That is the easy part.
Avoiding pharasmas judgement is the difficult part, but a soul in hell already went through that and all the mindwipe bullshit involved.
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>>85573176
there's a ritual anyone can perform
however you need to beat at least 7 DC26 knowledge/spellcraft checks, costs 25000 gold
and if you fail pharasma drops a CR 20+ encounter where a bunch of psychopomp teleport directly next to everyone involved(7-12 people) and try to kill em
https://aonprd.com/OccultRituals.aspx?ItemName=Divert%20Soul
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>>85573278
>Avoiding pharasmas judgement
The gods are unironically afraid of Kytons, which is why they were imprisoned in hell in the first place. Pharasma may go btfo liches and undead, but even the soul jew doesn't want to fuck with those creeps. Necromancers may do weird shit, but they don't literally cut themselves into pieces for fun
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>>85573350
But your average mortal worshiper of Zon Kuthon is not a Kyton, is it?
Pharasma will just send the fucker through the soul blender or whatever and it ends up in hell as a newborn bunch of nastiness without any memories. Then it may or may not develop its BDSM tendencies again, but most likely it will just get absorbed into fucking plane itself and thats a goner.
>>
I know it will improve after the playtest but how are the ENTIRE paizo design team still making the same fucking mistakes from the APG. This was the entire design team's pitch for a new class.
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>>85573427
pharasma generally sends followers to their deities
and you can technically skip all that shit by being a believer in reincarnation apparently
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>>85573436
Too many cooks in the kitchen. It feels like they can't decide on whether Kineticist is a martial or caster, so they went for a wierd mishmash that has crappy unarmed strikes, and crappy not!cantrips that have even worse action economy and require reloading.
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>>85573470
>pharasma generally sends followers to their deities
Sure. But I'm not really sure if the Shadow Plane is included in the list of the available addresses, and Zon Kuthon lives there.
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>>85538956
For Pathfinder 1e. If you are trying to save an outsider from their plane could you Planar Binding spell them and just break the circle they're summoned in? Cause then they're just free and on your plane right?
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>>85573318
read up on the rules for occult rituals, you only need to succeed at more than half the checks (4 total here)
you further get up to a +5 bonus on the skill checks if you have 20 secondary casters
+1 bonus for every 5 caster levels you have or (possibly and) +1 for every 5 caster levels of a ley line you're attuned to

and while you can't take 10 or 20 on the checks you can use any boost to skill checks that isn't mundane equipment

honestly getting 4 DC 26 checks out of 7 with those bonuses on either a knowledge-specialized caster or a skill monkey like say investigator (they can tap into ley lines as long as they have a single spell like ability) is downright trivial
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>>85573564
Sure. Though they will still maintain the connection to their plane of origin, so the Dismissal and such will send them straight back.
Also it is less explored thing, but I think they can just be summoned back to their plane of origin.
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>>85572913

I personally think that the kineticist is in serious trouble when it looks tempting to use Electric Arc, a cantrip, over some of the impulse overflow feats. Without even bringing in the fighter, I am fairly confident that a dragon instinct barbarian with Dragon's Rage Breath does the elemental melee warrior gimmick better, and a Psychic Dedication magus blows away the kineticist as a single-target damage dealer who can occasionally toss out a large AoE.
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>>85573564
Unless there's something preventing planar travel where they're at then yes, that's a perfectly viable strategy.
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>>85573568
oh wait, it's 12 caster max so that's only +3 and you need 5 checks to succeed since it's lv 9
still on someone into boosting skills that honestly seems very doable, other occult rituals have much bigger skill checks
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>>85573481
Its just so tiring to see them consistently keep making the same retarded mistakes over and over again. Fuck, me and half the autists in this thread could do a better job developing this game.
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>>85565574
>>85565621

Any pf1 guys able to check if I made mistakes with the attack rolls/damage?
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>>85573640

Bear in mind that the playtest thaumaturge was not saddled with the manipulate trait everywhere. That happened only in the final release.
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>>85573685
Why? Did they decide that it wouldn't be fair to only have Magus getting repeatedly kicked in the dick for being a gish?
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>>85573726
they probably undervalue AoOs, or we overvalue them regarding their presence in enemies
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>>85573726
I think the logic is that those AoO provoking classes are supposed to focus on enemies that do not have AoO while the real martials handle the AoO enemies.
Of course that does not really work out in reality, but since when Paizo has played their own games?
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>>85573806
if you're going to do that, dedicate to it, add bonuses for intentionally triggering AoO, maybe some riposte feature where if you force an AoO and they miss by [x] you get an attack on them
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Oddly, water may be the best element for raw damage at the lower levels. Tidal Hands (water 1st) has good targeting and good damage, beating out even Blazing Wave (fire 4th). Similarly, Winter's Clutch (water 1st) might not be much to start with, but it has solid scaling as a damage aura. It is unfortunate, though, that kinetic auras can only ever be entered during encounter mode; burning two actions just to activate Winter's Clutch can be quite inconvenient.

Of course, "best" is by kineticist standards, which are really rather low. I suppose playtests always veer towards the half-baked and underpowered.
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>>85571693
Damn bratty 2hu poster, ERPing in threads Janny correction is needed !!
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Allow me to illustrate how bad the kineticist's action economy is. Take Storm Spiral (air 6th). Impulse, overflow, three actions, 10-foot burst within 30 feet. It deals 3d12 damage (basic Reflex) at 6th level, improving by another d12 every three more character levels.

In order to successfully use Storm Spiral, the following criteria must be met:
• The kineticist, during the start of their turn, already has their element gathered. It must also be the correct element: air, in this case. If it is the "wrong" element, then the kineticist simply cannot use Storm Spiral during the turn.
• The targets must be within a 10-foot burst. Ideally, no allies should be within the area, because kineticist AoE damage is ally-unfriendly.
• The kineticist must be within 30 feet of the intended burst's origin point.
• The kineticist must not be within reach of any dangerous Attacks of Opportunity.

Even if all of the above criteria are met, the character still needs to incinerate three actions. The payoff is a smaller Fireball with worse scaling. Afterwards, the character must spend an action to Gather an Element on their next turn. It is effectively a four-action ability.

Meanwhile, Dragon's Rage Breath (barbarian 6th) or Pact of Draconic Fury (Pactbinder 6th) deals slightly better damage with better scaling. All either asks for is two actions, and that is it.
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>>85574480
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>>85574480

Let us put it another way. All Shall End in Flames (fire 18th) is impulse, overflow, three actions (effectively four actions), 30-foot burst within 500 feet, 7d10 damage (average 38.5). Dragon's Rage Breath or Pact of Draconic Fury deals 18d6 damage (average 63) at this level, and that is a 6th-level feat.
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They seem to overvalue being at will, perhaps because Focus Spells are just usually so mediocre that if anything similar were free, it'd make it that much worse?

Not too hopeful about it, considering no amount of bitching saved Inventor from Unstable
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In PF1e, is there an analogous book to the Elder Evils 3.5 book about cultists serving, and gaining boons, from an outer entity?
Kinda new to PF, and threads lately have been poorer for it for GM advice.
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>>85574747

Dragon Breath (sorcerer focus spell available via 6th-level feat) and Megavolt (6th-level inventor unstable feat) are probably more useful than Storm Spiral. I keep on bringing up Storm Spiral because it is actually one of the better damage feats. Tidal Hands is still more practical, though.
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>>85574814
A lot of the evil deities can grant boons via the Deific Obedience(or demonic obedience or a couple other similarly named feats depending on the deity)
There's a couple rules surrounding the mechanic and half a dozen prestige classes that give early access to the boons. unfortunately not every deity has obediences, so you'll have to check the deities you want.
https://aonprd.com/DeitiesByGroup.aspx
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>>85574923
I don't mean deities as listed, unless everything is treated as a deity of a sort?
I meant some creature foreign to the world, outside space time, yada yada.
I created a creature that is supposed to be the end result of a ritual as the big bad, and thought 'Elder Evils did this, and Paizo ripped 3.5 off'.
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>>85574849

Maybe Storm Spiral (air 6th) is an unfair comparison point. Slippery Sleet (water 6th) seems better for actual battlefield control. No spell in the game creates uneven ground, as far as I know, but Slippery Sleet does. Most enemies are untrained in Acrobatics, so due to the mechanics of Balance, Slippery Sleet has a high chance of outright immobilizing enemies.
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>>85575002
There is actually all sorts of 'outer entities' in pathfinder setting, from actual lovecraft stuff to all kinds of weird shit that should not exist but does.
Most of those are capable of working as sort of pseudo deities and grant boons and spells and stuff.
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>>85575064

On the other end of the metaphorical scale, Usurp the Lunar Reins (water 18th) is one of the worst 18th-level feats I have seen, if not the worst. What is this even for?
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>>85575117
Repost it for those of us that don't want to look it up?
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>>85575112
>https://aonprd.com/DeitiesByGroup.aspx
Alright, thank you, anon.
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>>85575002
basically anything that sits above the realm of power PCs can normally obtain is generally classified as a deity
outside of that it's a bit vague mechanically with only mentions there's countless eldritch beings out there who make deals and even more that don't. The Oracle and Witch classes are some of the few places they're even mentioned
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Whats the best class for a 1e Jedi/Sith pc?
Dont gotta be official, but not someones homebrew would be better
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>>85575333
Eh, Kinetic Knight kineticist comes to mind.
Maybe also Mind Sword Paladin for a Jedi.
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>>85575333
Aether Kineticists do the move stuff with your mind better than anyone
>When using basic telekinesis, you can move an object that weighs up to 100 pounds per kineticist level you possess. When using your telekinetic blast, you can throw an object weighing up to 100 pounds per kineticist level you possess, but this doesn’t increase the damage. If you accept 1 point of burn, the maximum weight increases to 1,000 pounds per kineticist level you possess and the duration increases to 1 minute per kineticist level you possess.
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>>85575397
>>85575394

do they get more then one element? Because beyond aether/lightning wouldnt it be strange
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>>85575333
When people are recommending Kineticist everywhere I also need to ask: how important is it to your image of a Jedi that you also be actually strong in combat?
Kineticist won't give you that
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>>85564435
It wasn't, if the orcs had been ready they would have been exposed to readied bow shots at every corner.
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>>85575559
Iv been aware that kinetics need either legendary? or some other 3pp to actually be good
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>>85575559
Kineticist is perfectly fine in combat and the only people that say otherwise are either people that don't want to go through the headache of trawling through the horribly formatted srd pages for them or are just repeating the memes from when the class first came out. Either that or they're using like, Orc butchering Axe memebuilds or whiteroom wizard theorycraft builds as a comparison which really isn't fair.
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>>85575529
they get an element at 1st, 7th and 15th

>>85575559
>>85575585
Kineticist do perfectly fine in combat, generally the complaint on forums is that they can't go turbo autismo optimization like archery can because Kineticists have a high floor but low ceiling and can't really optimize their damage beyond the well-tuned tools the class gives you.
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>>85563063
was hypercorp 2099
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>>85575601
>>85575609
Kineticist doesn't just fall behind turbo optimization, it falls behind if the party's doing any optimization at all beyond basic, and that's not even getting started on how CON/DEX main means you'll barely have any good skills for out of combat
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>>85575708
You can complete most of Paizo 1e APs with fucking joke builds that focus on farting enemies.
Max whiteroom optimization is fun, but absolutely not necessary.
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>>85575761
That's why I talked about the PARTY
It might not be fun to try and be a cool jedi when the waterballoon-throwing clown is beating up enemies better than you
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>>85575812
Fucker is doing a goddamn Jedi. Probably cares more about the role play than what dices say.
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>>85575708
from a glance at what the internet considers optimized I'm really not seeing this, kineticist seems to compete just fine
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>>85575870
If you want to play a game that lets you roleplay while having minimal engagement with the dice then pathfinder is not a good system for it

(And again a kineticist can't afford to be smart, wise or charismatic)
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>>85575906
>pathfinder is not a good system for it
But probably only fucking thing you can easily find in addition of 2e autism and 5e fucks.
>(And again a kineticist can't afford to be smart, wise or charismatic)
Why not. Just throw points in, it does not matter anyway.
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>>85575960
>The way to have fun with the game is to stop thinking about playing the game

5e mindset
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>>85573318
>Occult Rituals
why have I never looked at these? That Welcome to the Blighted Soul ritual looks perfect for the endgoal of a character I have
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1e. Harvest parts sounds cool, but the feat line looks like a shitter trap unless you're fighting one type of creature. Is it worthwhile?
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>>85576829
It's a fun feat chain for roleplay. Not worth spending your own feats on though, but if you have a barbarian or similar player on your table they are fun to give as extra rewards if barb does something worthwhile.
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Anyone's got concise list of +STAT items in first edition?
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>>85576884
>extra rewards if barb does something worthwhile
What feats of strength could warrant such rewards?
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>>85577550
Well, our barb practically soloed the boss encounter when everyone else got stuck by fear aura and spend the whole encounter running around headlessly.
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>>85576884
>>85576829
honestly though, I usually say "screw that" to the feat chain and just let players, if they have the skills to properly butcher a creature, just get a morale bonus or so for carrying around a trophy

no need to hassle with feat chains like that for something that should be up to RP anyways
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The 3pp version of the kineticist is better than the paizo offering. That is just sad.
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One of the very few kineticist builds that might be worthwhile comes online at 8th level. At that level, a water-focused kineticist with Aura Shaping and Winter's Clutch projects an 20-foot-radius, ally-friendly aura of 8 cold damage per round. That really is not bad, I think.
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I know Bard and Cleric ranks the top of the spellcasters tier with Witch at the bottom, but where do the rest of the casters stand?
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>>85577719
Smarmy comment aside, when has there been a situation where 3pp classes WEREN'T either hilariously more overpowered or awkwardly design than Paizo's offering?
The shitty 2e Master Attack/Legendary Spellcasting Warlock? Anything Legendary pumps out?
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Surely the Blast Expertise feat is meant to be at 5th considering the critical hit feat is there like other martials.
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>>85578289
>Anything Legendary pumps out?
Don't remind me I paid for their 2e shaman.
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>>85578184
>2e
Fairly interchangeable. If I had to tier them, I would go:
>Wizard -- 4 slots and the most spellcasting per day, prepared casting is the only real flaw (the focus spells aren't real...).
>Sorcerer -- 4 slots and spont. caster. Only reason they aren't top is that non-Arcane casters don't get a Ring of Wizardry equivalent.
>Psychic -- Spont. Casting and loads of damage, only really hamstrung by 2 slots per level
>Oracle -- Good chassis, good power, complicated-yet-underwhelming mechanics, stuck on Divine
>Druid -- Overall good tankiness, but lacks a clear build path for non-Wild Shapers, Prepared Primal is probably the worst combination in the game.

Spellcasting in 2e, for as much as everyone says it is toned down, is still very much a welcomed addition to any chassis and adds everything you ask for a 2e character -- power, versatility, defenses, uniqueness. No caster, even Witch or Oracle, is so hamstrung by their features that they can't really contribute or feels it cannot at least compensate through spellcasting.

>>85571188
I've been thinking on this, and I'm actually kind of confused on this as a mechanic.
Paizo says it like this because it plays well with 2e's action economy compared to the original Gather Power from 1e, if going by the Playtest Survey Questions. And...sure?
I don't quite mind Reload, especially on a class that prefers to be at range than up-close (I have never seen anyone that knows how to use all 3 actions consistently outside of the Fighters), but I don't quite understand the thought process behind essentially making a class that action taxes itself when it uses its big metastrikes, still make them 3 actions, and still have them count as low-power?
I'm fine with Gather Element being a reload, it just needs to...do more, more akin to Gunslinger's Reloads or Thaumaturge's Exploits. Make me WANT to spend an action putting myself at net-zero advantage.
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>of course fighters should be the best class at fighting, it's in their name, duh
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>>85576261
Rituals are pretty damn powerful

for example a 10th level human wizard with 22 int and the focused study racial trait literally cannot fail the "become a lich" ritual as long as he uses 21 people in the ritual (which can be anyone, including slaves the price of which is trivial compared to the phylactery cost, and lets be real here, nobody trying to become a lich gives a flying fuck about sacrificing 21 people)

that's a damn bog standard wizard if I ever saw one, only unusual thing is having focused study, and a wizard having focused study in Knowledge: Arcana and Spellcraft is only "barely" out of the ordinary, especially for a spell-research autist
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>>85578378
(cont.)
Personally, I would make Gather Element more like Crossbow Ace -- a damage bonus that comes from recentering yourself. If not damage (they really should get CON-to-damage at base, like 1e...), then something like expanding the Kinetic Aura range, some elemental effect, or movement like a Step or Stride. They can probably have feats or innate class features for that fun, but I feel like the core of making a class fun to Reload with is always giving the Reload action compression.

To put it in card game terms, playing a card that Draws another card is not fun just because you hit net-zero hand advantage, but because you have a new option in your hand, more potential power for your next action/phase/round. Reload is just putting yourself at net-zero, maybe a net-negative in some damage-obsessed people's minds. And while that is fine for a gun, not so fine for an elemental blaster you designed around always elementally blasting... A major part of 2e's future is gonna rely on Paizo realizing the essence of the 3-action economy and what makes it fun to engage with: the push-and-pull of always trying to end your turn in a net-zero or net-gain situation. This what makes Action Compressors feel SO FUCKING GOOD to use.

The other part of 2e's future is them not slapping Manipulate on everything, or at least giving us back Defensive Casting or replace every mid-level monster's AoO capabilities with Stand Still if they are gonna do that anyway.... Seriously, most people's bitching will shut up in an instant if they just do either one of those things.
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>>85578511
A good option could be to turn Gather element into Stoke Element, remove the "no impluse after Stoking" rule and make it give a Con-based damage bonus. And remove the whole overload thing, because the action cost of the impulses is already cost enough on its own.
>>
Thinking of making parry add half of your proficiency bonus, instead of a flat +1, as a homebrew rule to make it more of an option. Does this sound balanced or does it break the balance somewhat (might also do something similar with shields to compensate if it works)
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>>85578530
All good ideas, though you kind of do need to have Overflow to even make sense to have Gather in the first place, else you have no way to get rid of it than just manually dropping it.

They could make the Overflow feats one-action, though, or at least one-action less. I would say if they are one-action, it resets your Kinectic Aura or damage bonuses if they could stack?
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>>85578567
>2e
Half your proficiency of What?, anon? This isn't 5e, there is no flat proficiency bonus.
And fundamentally speaking, that's WAY too much A!. Shields and Standard Cover are simply +2 to AC, you know. People don't really choose Parry because you can't really Shield Block with your weapon compared to a Buckler or the Shield cantrip, not because the bonus is too low. Adding anything more than +3 is too much for any creature to fundamentally deal with, especially once you remember the foes have shields and proficiency too!

If you really want Parry to be more memorable, just have some effect you can do with a Parry weapon. You really don't need to increase the bonus (especially when combined with things that increase Parry's AC bonus to +2).
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>>85578607
+1 for Trained, +2 for Expert, +3 for Master, +4 for Legendary.

Also probably making it a reaction rather than an action like raise shield. I did consider making riposte work like swashbucklers have (i.e. if you parry an attack, and it crit fumbles, then you can attack them), but then I'd have to get into buffing swashbucklers riposte.
Because parrying is a thing irl, and having a spear or a two handed sword would be neat to have an offensive defensive option, as opposed to the shields defensive defensive option, if that makes sense
>>
Why can I get opportunitied for using my blast's melee option? Four leading designers and this is the best they had.
Are they that desperate for people to use Elemental Weapon that they made anything else in melee pointless?
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>>85578764
>Why can I get opportunitied for using my blast's melee option?
Because "martial that gets AoOed for using their features" is apparently a Paizo standard nowadays (see Inventor, Magus and Thaumaturge)
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>>85578715
I feel like weapons trade off their traits pretty reasonably in 2e and there's no real sense in giving martials extra AC on an action regardless of their weapon selection. Just step away from the monster. Or put a spike on your shield.

Personally what I would do is make a generic action called defend and give it attack and open as traits.
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>>85578815
>I feel like weapons trade off their traits pretty reasonably in 2e
I suppose, but I just wanted to get something a bit more dynamic than "I hit you, you hit me", and trying to get people to try other games is like trying to herd cats and then get them all to take pills. Honestly even pulling people away from 5e to pathfinder 2e was a chore.
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Yo. I had an idea for a campaign while laying down. Anyone got any ideas where I can recruit for an online 1e campaign?
>>
> gives a class martial proficiencies but no to really Amp damage.
> since the class has martial proficiencies its casting dcs are never that adequate so it's spells aren't good enough.

Kineticist needs a lot of work. I actually think they could bump the hit dice up to d10 and introduce something like burn to power up both aspects
>>
2e

Can anyone actually tell me why I’d EVER pick a Barbarian over a Fighter? Do Paizo really think a +2 to damage and a pitiful amount of temp
HP (at the cost of -1 AC lmao) is comparable to +2 to hit/crit in a system where a +1 is a BIG fucking deal? It’s not like you can’t achieve the exact same character fantasy with the Fighter that you can with the Barbarian. They don’t get any extra skills, bonuses to athletics, nothing over the fighter except a bigger hit die, which is rendered meaningless when you have to take a lower AC when raging (and god forbid you take the giant instinct)
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>>85579382

Optimization-wise, you generally want to be a dragon barbarian. The giant instinct may be preferable in some niche cases, like a low-level game wherein no caster has Magic Weapon, or a high-level game with wide and open spaces that support growing Large or Huge. The giant instinct is better than the dragon instinct against resist X all, too. But most of the time, the dragon instinct is your best pick.

No, barbarians generally cannot match the consistency and combat prowess of the fighter. The fighter class is somewhat overpowered compared to other martial classes in this system.
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>>85579382
Barb gets Damage Resistance later on, good portion of the same feats as Fighter, that +2 grows to a bunch of extra damage in a game where it is rare to get more than +2 damage per strike, you get Mighty Rage which lets you use a Rage feat for free, and Barb gets good crowd control and special metastrikes while Fighter is sort of stuck with Combat Grab for 12 levels...
And that's ignoring their actual subclasses.
Fighter crits are really good and put it above Barb most of the time, but when you have to fight something that doesn't care about Criticals (fucking oozes...) or you want some more actual spice, Barb sort of got your back. You pick Barbarian for the same reasons as Ranger, you need more CONSISTENT damage and team support, not crit-fishing.

>>85578764
>>85578782
In fairness, that is how Kinetic Blasts always worked. Kineticist was never a martial (It's a caster with martial building simplicity), it was specifically WHY Kinetic Blade exists.
Sure, I would prefer Elemental Weapon be a core feature or not have the melee version be AoO'd, but like...if any class was going to be like that, it was going to Kineticist...
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>>85579382
Big damage and the supernatural abilities.
Even something like imprecise scent is pretty neat.
Barbarians are sort of glass, you're right though.
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>>85579541
To correct myself, Kinet was a martial as much as a bow Ranger or Zen Archer Monk is.
Proficiency-wise, definitely, but you really aren't playing the same game as the UNGA BUNGA crowd.
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>>85579541
1e kineticist was also far better at being a ranged damage dealer than 2e is shaping up to be, with even a good bit of control and utility options

it's why people expected their melee to not suck dick I guess, because everything else is substantially worse
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>>85579581
Yeah, the lacking damage (seriously, why no CON-to-Damage???) gets to me too, but I don't think there's a correlation in design senses there, at least beyond someone going ahead giving them Brutal on a feat. I think it really was them panicking at having an at-will blaster with little/no setup and overcorrecting that fact, without realizing the whole point is the high at-will elemental damage.

Will say, Kinet still has good control and support options, between getting the Wall spells on demand, getting concealment in your aura, healing, repositioning, whatever the FUCK Usurp the Lunar Rein actually supposed to do (why is this an 18th Level feat??)... Their control and utility are still pretty strong.

I think an easy fix with no math work required would be to give them Legendary Unarmed, or just making everything scale directly with Level, no strange heightening gaps required. Inventor's Explode gets up to 20d6, so that should probably be the baseline for their powers, give or take.
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>>85579753

Does this look like a reasonably fair test chamber for a 5th-level flickmace redeemer champion and a water kineticist? Yellow lines represent doors. The southern doors open southwards. This is supposed to be an extremely prosaic room-clearing scenario.

Should I move the kineticist back? My concern is that the kineticist wants to be able to fire Tidal Hands past the champion. Is it worthwhile to have the kineticist stay back regardless?
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>>85579712
still they're a step down in terms of utility, control and support from 1e, even compared to 2e 's general design features

also I personally shy away from judging a class by it's high level features, they're fun for theorizing sure but we all know that most campaigns start in early level and last about mid-levels before ending or fizzling out

but you're right in that those things didn't go away, just that the kineticist was that and a competent damage dealer before, and people are rightfully miffed at the "competent damage dealer" aspect being missing

also, a personal opinion, but I don't like how limited the damage types are, part of what made 1e fun was being able to customize exactly what types of damage you dealt
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>>85578289
Your explaining my point. Even the jank ass legendary kineticist is better than the actual designers attempt at the class.
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>>85578298
Thats a class that sounds like a good idea until you actually have to play it at the table. Its even worse trying to play online.
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>>85580144
What's wrong with the shaman?
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>>85579382
The boost to damage instead of accuracy offers better returns at higher levels with good teamwork, since most buffs/debuffs make accuracy better rather than damage.
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>>85579382
>It’s not like you can’t achieve the exact same character fantasy with the Fighter that you can with the Barbarian.
You can't get so angry you turn into a bear or a dragon as a Fighter.
>>
>>85580293
Isn't more crits better that a couple extra points of damage?
>>
Strategy / Tactics challenge.
At what level, class and how well equipped of a PF1 character would it take to go through TSR 9016 - G1 - Steading of the Hill Giant Chief 'solo' and what would the general tactics / equipment be for a given class

'solo' = you are allowed the use of summons, forcibly bound outsiders such as those you could get with Planar Binding, necromancy, mental compulsion magic on the mobs in the area

just no helping group of adventurers or hirelings

For those not familiar with this old module https://ufile.io/r14b6kcd
A house / fort with ~ 40 hill giants, cloud giant and a frost giant, plus several dozens each of ogres, bugbears and a 160ish unarmed orc rebellious orc slaves.
The relatively small area and high occupancy makes it very difficult to keep the enemies unaware of combat so there is high likelyhood that the whole place will quickly get roused to battle once intruders are noticed.

What would be your minimal specs if you had to storm this place?
(aim for lowest level + minimal equipment cost in gold)
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>>85580492
I would start with being an evil alignment so you can just burn down the stead instead of worrying about the orc slaves
Some way of getting invisible for cheap, and maybe ontop of that a long range ranged weapon and one of the races with an innate flight speed since unless I skipped over something their only ranged weapons available are javelins which have pretty crap range increments
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>>85580492
Just throw in one clever illusionist with a couple of mind control spells and watch as the fort kills itself.
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>>85580462
Nah. And there's also crit immunity that can come up.
Raging barbs start adding silly numbers to their strikes after 7. And can do silly things like grappling from 10ft with angry antlers and just removing enfeeble and sickened stacks.
At a table, barbs are very good.
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>>85580492
None of those enemies can do anything against standard diplomancer bullshit. Also you're not expected to fight them all at once, in AD&D it was a 9th level adventure, in 4e was like 12th level.

If I really wanted to be a sweaty minmaxer I would abuse the fact there's tons of flammable structures (and that all those enemies are highly flammable) and use the utterly debilitating pathfinder rules for smoke inhalation and suffocation to take care of most of them. I believe most of those enemies aren't spellcasters and have no means of harming incorporeal undead or other creatures immune to physical damage so summoning/conjuring a bunch with nasty reflex and will save effects will skillfuck dumb orcs and giants and ogres with no possibility of success.
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>>85580576
honestly, given how utterly deadly smoke inhalation is I wouldn't consider it being an effective way of dealing with a large group of enemies to be "sweaty"

only thing that might be iffy is abusing ashen path ontop of it since it's way overtuned for a second level spell
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>>85580545
>And can do silly things like grappling from 10ft
You can always Strike your grappler.
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>NPCs with the encumbered or overburdened conditions have their speeds reduced, take a –5 penalty to Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks, and ignore the reduction to maximum Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (an NPC's Armor Class is not calculated the same way as a player character's).
Fucking hell, what is this bullshit? Starfinder errata.
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>>85580492
Would buying a poppet violate the "solo" requirement? If not, buy one, kit it out with a handful of thunderstones, several type 7 necklaces of fireballs and a ring of retribution. Use a wand of invisibility on the construct and order it to march into the biggest building, make some kind of sound to draw attention to itself, and detonate the ring either after 2 minutes or in response to an attack being attempted. 2 minutes of noise should attract some attention to hopefully draw a crowd, and if the initial nuke doesn't btfo everything then everything is fucking on fire.
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>>85580576
sweaty minmaxer advice is what I was looking for.

>>85580599
>>85580536
>>85580599
that said, this is what the module has to say about the option of setting fires there
>The Steading is in a nasty damp area, where hard rain is a daily occurance and wet fogs a nightly event. All wood int he place is very damp. (Normale fire will have only a 2% chance per round of buring or setting the place afire, and even magical fires will have only an 8% chance per round of the same.) If the party should manage to set the upper works of the Steading aflame, they will be forced to wait a week before trying to discover a way into the lower (dungeon) level, for hot embers will prevent entry before this perios of time. Note also that ALL loot from the upper works will be lost in such a fire, but that all giants from location 11 of the upper level will escape to the safety in the lower level going to location 26.
( i love how players think alike through the ages and that in the module printed in 1978 the first thing addressed is the majority suggestion here)
8% chance is not zero and surely a determined and perhaps invisible arsonist will succeed in time but if that chance is to extend to the chance of spreading the flame, high chance of being discovered before a significant burn sets in.
The '1 week's wait' seems inconsistent to me with daily heavy rain. I guess the presumption is that the roof itself is not flammable or would somehow endure and prevent the fire getting doused.
The more problematic part of this approach is the loss of treasure which is the main financial incentive for the attacker and that majority of the giants are stated to have a sure fire way of escaping safely. Guess these hill giants are really up to snuff with their fire codes.

>>85580540
>>85580576
could you elaborate on how that illusionist and diplomancy approaches would go? The denizens are presumed to be very hostile to any smaller humanoids.
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>>85580762
>could you elaborate on how that illusionist and diplomancy approaches would go?
Illusionist can just stay invisible and spread discord with illusions without breaking it. Considering giants are dumb fucks, it should not take long to get those into beating each other into small chunks. Mind control is just icing the cake.
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>>85580735
buying constructs is fine.
Problem with that plan is that this is a giant's keep.
1 shot that kills things only in 30 and 20ft radius is just not going to cut it - the biggest concentration of enemies is in their great hall that's 120ft by 80ft, and even there, its not reasonable that more than several enemies rush a small construct that suddenly appeared. Most likely a few will approach to investigate and overall you will maybe take out a dozen or so of those gathered in the hall.
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>>85580762
If fire is a no go because of muh loot, then use poison and disease.
>be necromancer
>be invisible
>taint food stockpiles
>poison watering hole
>introduce zombie rot to the orc slaves
>bring a gorillion rats from town
>taint the rats with something nasty
>release rats into fort
>wait
>walk past zombies
>collect loot
>????
>profit
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>>85580869
Or release one Shadow in there.
Then you will have a problem of a fortress full of shadows though.
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>>85580869
trying to get poison or god forbid disease to stick in PF1e, especially against giants, is a shitshow to begin with

even the lowliest orc slave will save against pretty much any poison on disease except on a nat 1
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New thread
>>85580934
>>85580934
>>85580934
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>>85580912
Yeah I suppose that is the better plan. Fortress can be someone else's problem though, as you should be safe due to the chain of command as spawn are created.
>>85580914
Fair point, but something is bound to stick if literally everything that the giants interact with prompts a save
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>>85578607
>And fundamentally speaking, that's WAY too much A!. Shields and Standard Cover are simply +2 to AC, you know.



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