Just A Little Edgy Body Mod Edition>Previous Thread>>85485360>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0 >Mediafirehttp://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw> White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread TopicWhat is the best way to play with one's food to make it scream the loudest?
>>85507023>What is the best way to play with one's food to make it scream the loudest?Force them to watch a Netflix original.
The Word, "Scream".
>>85507043>Use Dominate on captive bloodbag>Tell it to scream>Never stops screaming>Coterie can't get a good day's snooze because of screaming>Cain's sake, shut it up!>It dies the next day because of the effort of screaming foreverFukkin Lasombras.
>>85507070Gross. Don't compare Vamps to Demons.
>>85507070Imagine not killing it yourself
>>85507023>What is the best way to play with one's food to make it scream the loudest?Do people realy get off to the rape allegory of vampire that much?
>The obsession that every Tzimisce needs to have Vicissitude to graft penises everywhere is one of the most exhausting parts of the fandomDo you agree or disagree with this statement?
Today, M20 Sorcerer is out! I'm so excited right now! Still waiting to drop at DriveThruRPG!
>>85508184Do people really believe that OPP doesn't use this general for viral marketing?
>>85508211maybe 1 or 2 desperate goons, but honestly no, i don't belive that that OPP gives 2 shits about this place
>>85508211Maybe yes, maybe no. I just like a lot Sorcerer. It was said the book contains lots of info on Twilight Project and Arcanum. But I hope they also update other Societies put on previous Sorcerer editions.
>>85507023>What is the best way to play with one's food to make it scream the loudest?Dunno, but I watched an Amazon Prime show recently where Elizabeth Bathory was around and I'm quoting her for you:>(...)Your noble blood, but it's not just that. It's rather how it gets to me. >The light slowly leaking from your eyes... It's powerful.>Your pain pleasures me, fuels me. It keeps me invincible.
>>85507043It’s not too late to return to the GodMachine
>>85508609is the God-Machine the coolest of the currently extant splat deities?
>>85508777Well, it's mystery is only exceded by its power.
>>85508807The God-Machine has made the Apocalypse Vault. What have the others made?
>>85508777Yes.Blessed be the GodMachine
Why are mages so bloody powerful even in comparison to the "casters" of the other splats? If they're going to make spellcasters apex, they should make the spellcasters of the other splats apex too.
>>85509113You are getting cause and effect reversed. Mages aren't the apex because they are spellcasters. They are the apex because they have risen up a level in the gnostic sense. The dynamic spellcasting is just a byproduct of that.
>>85509161>Mages aren't the apex because they are spellcasters.Of course they fucking are? What else would justify their dynamic spell making system? That is not a product of Awakening, it's a product of Mage as it is. Ascension and Ars Magica are no different. It's always been dynamic cancer.
W5 news: Wendigo aren't getting rebranded.
>>85509261I wasn't talking about Awakening but alright
>>85509313I thought only Uktena was getting rebranded.
>>85509313I heard about that, despite the writing teams desires, paradox wanted to retain familiar names
>>85509411Amen to that. Hope they don't remove the Metis nor Lupus as well.
I'm having trouble coming up with a cult for my mummy game. I was thinking about having it insinuate itself into the co-op program for a local university to help place up and coming cultists into good positions but I'm not sure how good that is and I can't really decide on any other particulars. Anyone have any good cult concepts?
>>85509437>MetisAlready cut. Not even a lore explanation for why Metis aren't a thing, Metis never canonically existed and are not mentioned.>LupusUnknown as of right now.
>>85509526>Already cut. Not even a lore explanation for why Metis aren't a thing, Metis never canonically existed and are not mentioned.I still have hopes. Also, I went to search more about the gameboard and it seems they made this horrendous work on Get of Fenris. I do hope it's like that Global Virus Game were you can plays as the antagonist because for sure I'll love to play as Get in this game.
>>85509554You can't play as antagonist in Retaliation.
>>85509554The daughter of the Earthblood protagonist should technically be Metis but she is perfectly fine until she gets mutated with the titular Earthblood.
Talking about WoD boardgames, does anyone here played Chapters? Can a review be given to me, please? The team seems pretty dedicated and I'm curious on how the game goes. They have lots of characters and good art.
>>85509526Makes me so madIf metis are gone so should the nosferatu or the Malkavians
>>85509710They escaped the purge because their names don't offend a minority of people that nobody actually remember of.
>>85509313Source? I couldn't find this pic anywhere.
Tell us about your big bad honcho, /WoD/
>>85509526>Metis never canonically existedPerfect Metis been the Werewolf antichrist since the first book. Least give me some edition change lore like he was actually supposed to be born and every other metis keeled over on the day.
>>85510082Anon was saying that regarding W5 erasing completly the Metis Breed without any explanation, like it was never canon in the first place.
I'm gonna make everyone mad and say that I think the "X Card" mechancic is generally a pretty good idea in games like WoD.Not because I think it's a good way to avoid dealing with dark subjects, because WoD has always revelled in being edgy as hell. No, it's good because it's a way to shut down an ST who is being a knob. It adds gravitas to telling an ST to fuck off without having to yell."No, we're not listening to you describe an entire rape scene, that's lame and you're clearly getting off to it Karen".
>>85510106Yeah. I'm pissing and moaning that it's a lot of brand to throw away.
>>85509113Because 1e of OwOd mage was made intentionaly stronger than freshly embraced vamps and that's where the powertripping of the nerds started
>>85510082I think it's because they want to move away from the "The apocalypse is right around the corner!" stuff that permeated oWoD. Which is probably a decent instinct.But it's weird to just remove metis completely as a way to get to that point. It's like removing thin bloods in Vampire.
>>85510140>it's good because it's a way to shut down an ST who is being a knob. It adds gravitas to telling an ST to fuck off without having to yell.You ain't wrong on that, mate.
>>85510140That's not what X cards were made for, anon.In a personal game, you have the time to speak to the ST. Ideally, you talk before the game begins about subject matter.
>>85510215>That's not what X cards were made for, anon.But it is an unintentional bonus.
OP is still missing this one:>CofD Codexhttp://wodcodex.com/wiki/Main_Page
>>85510230A stupid bonus used by stupid people.The only thing you are speaking of is trying to weaponize it against the ST in lieu of communicating like a normal person.
Hey we ever gonna update the mega?
>>85510358Unbunch your panties.>>85510413Somebody tried, but nobody gave a fuck.
>>85510197But the Acopalypse being right around the corner is the main theme of the game. It's even in its name, unlike VtM which didn't cared that much about the coming of Gehenna before Revised.
>>855101404channers will ascend when they realise that x cards are good because they allow you to respect another person, and even actually make friendsinstead they're too busy being lonely neets because they're too focused on being edgy and disregarding other people
In real life folklore there was nothing to prevent a vampire from learning magic like a human. Even gods could learn magic. Dracula was more wizard than vampire. This super speshul awakened shit is gay and retarded.
>>85509637Her mother was kinfolk stupidly working on the front lines as a spy in the opening level
>>85510653Well now it already happened, Gaia is explicitly dead now
>>85510692More proof scorceror should have been the main splat, mage should have just been it's own setting.
>>85510692No one is forcing you to play them.
>>85508441so that they can be full of troons and other abominations? Please no, i don't want or need a "queered" Order of the Aeon Rites or an "intersectional" or "decolonized" take on the Balamob
>>85510692it isnt real life thoits a board game
I'm running V20 for my group and after some strife the necromancer tremer has acquired a consecrated stone for the "Knowing Stone" ritual. I'm conflicted between two interpretations.Option 1: Very effective, writing the name gives you sight and whispers of of all who lives and have lived with that name, which in many instances will be a fair few. The character makes a roll of Stamina or smilar to endure and filter through the information overload. Option 2: Default can only have the second paragraph, listening to spirits whispering of the target. The target for the first paragraph need to be at least in visual contact for marking the spirit for later espionage.
Why do so many people tell me I’m a Toreador?
>>85511342Maybe because you look submissive and breedable?
>>85511342Sounds like it's because you spend time with many people who can't separate reality and fantasy.
>>85511342Because you’re a Daeva
>>85511342Some questions are best left unanswered, Anon.I'm so sorry for your life.
>>85511342Take it as a compliment.
So what exactly is it like to experience death in CofD? Do you go to the Underworld? To Stygia?
>What is the best way to play with one's food to make it scream the loudest?Depends on the clan>Nosferatu>Use Mask of A Thousand Faces to turn into someone hot. Flirt with Kine at a bar. When it gets down to the dirty, drop the disguise and shout "SURPRISE!">Ventrue>Assign one of your employees a massive workload, constantly harass them on their vacation time, when he finally finishes tell him the company is downsizing and no longer requires his services.>Toreador>Breaks into your house every night, slightly moves things around, tilts paintings, all to make you feel like you're losing your mind, until you stay up all night and realize, with rising horror, that someone is in your house.>Followers of Set>You wake up in the snake pit>Malkavian>You're going to be living in some dementia-fueled nightmare world for hours before they finally put you out of your misery.
>>85511785That depends on your definitionof "you". If you are talking about the soul as defined by Mage and most other splats, it disappears after death and no one really knows what happens. If you mean the soul as defined by Mummy which may be the same thing as the soul as defined by Mage but probably isn't, then it goes to Duat and is judged by the Judges of Duat before either being given to Ammut the Devourer or going to Aaru, which is Mummy Heaven. If you mean a perfect continuity of consciousness to some form of afterlife, it doesn't appear to exist. If you mean ghosts, which are closer to copies than perfect continuity of consciousness, they hang around for a while but will eventually be dragged to the Underworld and from their persist either until they are eaten by the Underworld itself or are dissolved by the Ocean of Fragments.
>>85511857That Toreador one is how the malk one would start, they wouldn't just drop you into nightmareland instantly.
>>85511857>>Followers of Set>>You wake up in the snake pitEven worse - you wake up as Bam Margera
>>85511905I always consider “myself” to be continuity of consciousness, so that all sounds pretty depressing. If there’s no continuing of my consciousness, then I don’t find the idea of a soul going anywhere to be of any particular significance. And a copy of my continued consciousness isn’t me, it’s just a copy of me. That question of “self” aside, if mage-lore souls just fizzle out, what’s going on in Stygia? It also makes me a bit more confused as to what the “death” Sin-Eaters experienced was
>>85512055>what’s going on in Stygia? Stygia is a Supernal Realm. Supernal Realms are not places people go - at least not without becoming an Archmage. One of the main failing of MtAw, in my opinion, is that they introduce these "Realms" and the Supernal "World" and then say "you can't go there though". There's no real point to it, might as well just use the Realms Invisible we already have, like the Underworld.>It also makes me a bit more confused as to what the “death” Sin-Eaters experienced wasSin-Eaters (and Bound in general) are effectively ghosts possessing their own bodies. Their souls have already departed, and their Geists keep their death from going from "halfway" to "all the way". Whether they are the same "person" as they were before the Bargain is moot.
Fags, we have the Sorcerer 20th Edition advance PDF on sale.https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/401413/M20-SorcererAfter all that 5th Edition shit this will be a breath of fresh air.
>>85512206Give me a reason to use this over revised
>>85512272Don't give a fuck if you use it or not, I am waiting for it to drop to newVola.
>>85512206What exactly is the difference between a Mage and a Sorcerer? And can you run a chronicle for Sorcerer players?
So what you guys' opinion on Swansong?
>>85508183I disagree because I do not see it.I do however think that the most exhausting aspect of Clan Brujah is that every single one has to be Communist, so for the game I'm running, the new Prince of the Camarilla territory my players are residing in is a devout minarchist.
>>85512327Mages are what Sorcerers want to grow up to. This is especially true since most Sorcerers are trained as one so that they might awaken. Order of Hermes typically trains tons of Sorcerers but only some of them Awaken to being a Mage. Rest are left as second class citizens. The Technocracy is made out of like, 90% Sorcerers aka Extraordinary Citizens. And yes, of course you can play in a sorcerer chronicle. It's usually a multi splat chronicle since Sorcerers are usually very connected to other splats. I once played a Sorcerers chronicle that evolved into a mage chronicle.
>>85512318Seconded. I don't think there'll be so many changes. I just hope they won't put shitty Humanity system on them or alter rules to fit it in.
>>85511342>people think you are part of the chad clanyou've made it anon
>>85512386Bit shit. Absolutely not worth asking price.Devs' other one was alright though.
>>85512386If it were $20 it'd be sorta worth a playthrough, but really it isn't.
Can anyone answer me a question about Demon the Descent? How does an Angel possessing a Cover for a specific mission works? >the Angel Manifests/Possesses an already living person, taking over their life>the Angel is downloaded directly into the Cover when it still was in their mother's belly, living their life until the time of it's mission>the Cover is created by the God Machine (for example, as an adult with a certain job and family) and the Angel downloaded into it Thanks in advance!
First impressions (comparing to Revised):>Tweaks to caps and Path Attribute + Ability choice for making it more coherent with style and paradigm. Ok.>General Aspect lists for Paths. Good. "Metaphysical Weight" is a clever way to cover multiple things at once, I like that.>Rituals are a bit more flexible. Essentially, trade casting time for stronger or specialized effect. Good.>Mini-Consensus check with a Witnesses chart that counters vulgar effects in public. That's fine.>Not going into the detail of individual Paths yet. No 6 dots, which is fine. Annoyingly, after establishing the general Aspect lists, Paths still get their own. Missed the mark here.>Some proper Necromancy, separate from Spirits and other Ephemera. Overdue.>Technomancy is Necrotechnomancy, which is funny, but a simple Technomancy Path would have sufficed. I'll probably continue to use my Homebrew.>List of Psychic Phenomena and Sorcery Paths has a few new additions. I had expected a wee bit more, but space is limited, I get that.>There are some dupes between the two, or at least very similar powers that could have simply been the same thing. As I said in my previous post, making the Paths open for both and then have a distinctive difference in casting would have been more economic.>More societies and affiliations. Reads fine at first glance, but I need to take more time.So far fluff and crunch look fine. The artwork is really nice. Spotted some minor editing mistakes, but nothing glaring (yet).
>>85509261Sperg, all you had to do was the read the sentence RIGHT after that one fo fucks sake.
>>85510140Isnt the topic of rape and its thorough description something you and the players should all be on the same page on before you play the game?
>>85511342Probably because you look like this
>>85512986>Artwork is really niceFrom a 20th book? Pics pls. Sorcerers/HTV Witches have always interested me more than either Mage.
>>85512960It's the third one. Angel Covers bar some very special circumstances are made for that specific Angel.
When did you realize WoD is better as an idea generator and is in fact a giant turd of a setting?
>>85507043Based. One of my favourite powers. >>85507070Cringe. The Word shits on Dominate
>>85513362Thanks mate. But like, a woman suddenly has a 9-year old child, because an Angel is supposed to inhabit that cover?
>>85509526>>85509769Alright, serious question; why do the Metis offend people?
>>85512055Yeah, turns out death in a horror setting is kind of a bummer.
>>85513455Because Metis is a word that describes native-canadian mixed with europeans. And so these people were offended because the name of their nation is used as a deformed breed that suffers prejudice. It's Ravnos all over again.
>>85513489Its more like white people got offended on their behalf. Almost no actual metis people gave a shit or even play these games.
>>85513370Around the time I got to reading the books after playing VTM Bloodlines. It was really jarring to me how mixed it was. There was never a middling idea, only great or horrible ones. Trying to move outside of Vampires and Hunters was also pretty confusing, especially with how much the different lines step on each other's toes. Why is it that the Camarilla, Pentex, whoever the fuck the Technocracy is, and a bunch of other minor players are all fighting over influence in Government, Big Business, and NGOs, yet seem to only know the most basic shit about each other? Not to mention the absolute gagglefuck of a cosmology. Best to leave it murky and unknown than throw out four or five conflicting cosmologies.It also probably helped that when I was first playing, I didn't totally understand the difference between oWoD and nWoD. I knew VTM and VTR were different settings but beyond that it was slightly murky, so I felt fine mixing in things I liked when I found myself running Hunter: the Vigil one shots in a friend's basement in High School.My WoD games mix whatever my group and I think is fun and cool, and sometimes I just make up my own stuff. Any tabletop game needs to give players and GMs room to breathe and make their own stuff up, even ones in established settings.
>>85513489Oh, all this time I thought it was in reference to Greek mythology.
Trade an extinct fera for an extant feraHard mode, you cant trade garou or kitsune
>>85513532Isn't it always?
>>85512206I'd rather slog through v5 than play Mage or any variant of it. Mage exists as a splat that people talk about, no one actually fucking plays it.
>>85513577>Any tabletop game needs to give players and GMs room to breathe and make their own stuff up, even ones in established settings.Amen to that. I still find oWoD one of the best settings I've ever played, but at least in my old group we took anything that wasn't from a core book to be more of a source of inspiration than anything set in stone, and that was before things got STUPID.
>>85513481I mean yeah, but it’s also a setting jam-packed with magic and supernatural stuff. Hoping for an afterlife isn’t the craziest thing in the world
>>85513716Well, no, and that is a central part of Geist too. They don't know what passing on is actually like but they help the dead out because of the hope that things are better on the other side. However, as it's a horror game having a definitive answer of some eternal paradise, rather than the vague notion of the possibility of such a place, is more than you should expect.
>>85513778I’m not looking for proof of an eternal paradise, just some notion of a continued consciousness and existence after death
>>85513532As a near full-blooded Native American, the majority of the nations in the U.S. laugh at how fucking sensitive Canadian tribes are. I'm sure one of those faggots threw a fit somewhere about something.>>85513489>name of their nationThere is no "Metis nation", it's just a group of mutts that use a persisting French name to be special. They're not legally recognized like actual Native tribes, and none of them can trace their lineage anywhere because they're so mixed. The majority of them are almost completely French. They've signed no legal treaties, have no ground for exceptional treatment by law, and when a group of them were gifted land as recompense, they immediately sold most of it for a quick buck in the early 1900s, and the descendants have been bitching about it being some kind of scam or mistreatment ever since, despite most of them not even being descendants of the Metis that were given the land to sell.Metis are basically a bunch of French that are LARPing as an indigenous group, but the group is so diluted and ill-defined that people can just "identify" as Metis, despite having no real culture and not even having actual connection with Aboriginal tribes native to Canada, and it continually fucks the entire classification every decade.>>85513532Metis are "white people". They're whiter than most modern day Americans considering they're about 80% French on average.
>which supernatural are you?http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=wwquiz>Vampire clanshttps://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=masqueradetest>Mage traditionshttps://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=geoectomy3>Aretehttp://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=Arete>Werewolf tribeshttps://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=Ashrem>Auspiceshttp://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=auspice5>Changeling kithshttps://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=changeling>Hunter creedshttps://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=HunterCreedTest>Asian WoDhttp://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=ShenSelecter
>>85513442There is a passage that It would try not to fuck reality up too much. Get sneaky with it. Maybe the woman lost her kid recently? It's far less of a cocking up if you erase her memory of that loss and insert your agent. Or just create Covers of loners, orphans, NEETs and such.
>>85513700>Mage exists as a splat that people talk about, no one actually fucking plays it.Including yourself im guessing?
>>85513884Already took it.Bow before the Archmaster. Can't wait to see five different Anons all get Assamite Sorcerer because the test has a hard-on for them.
>>85513884How am I supposed to answer some of these, it keeps asking questions that would require me to be fucking supernatural. I’m just a guy not a psychic
>>85512960It's 1 and 3. It depends on the angel's Incarnation, whether or not that angel is working overtly or covertly, and the specifics of the mission. The Storyteller's Guide covers it in detail. Generally though Analysts don't use covers often. On the rare occasion they do they're artificial and they only possess humans for very important ones. Destroyers will tend towards having artificial covers but for covert missions they'll take ones suited to the task, either created or stolen as makes sense. Guardians often they're just floating around being invisible, but if they need a cover they take bodyguards and things like that, but will take mortal lives if there is one that's suitably skilled and positioned for the mission. Messengers have basic covers on quick missions, but on longer missions they're more likely to be mimicking a real human life. Psychopomps won't take covers at all if they're overt, but covert ones will have covers that are the blue-collar worker you just sort of ignore, rather than anything social. It could also be 2. That's weird enough to be true.
>>85513884What the fuck
>>85513884am mummy :)))>>85514191brother
>>85513884>that web designTake me back, anyways:>mummy>nosferatu>verbana>transcendant, arete 10>glass walkers>philodox>boggan>redeemer>dhampyr
>>85513587We will never know since they are doing heavy propaganda on how Metis was referred to the canadian all along. Just like Get of Fenris symbol. The symbol was always a anvil and a hammer. And then now people made a whole propaganda on how it is a nazi swastika.
>>85507023Alright lads, Hit me. What goodies are sitting in the new 20th?Stuck waiting on paycheck in 2 weeks to get it.
>>85514522What do you mean "We'll never know". They called the garou the garou. Why would you think they weren't also using French for metis?
>>85514584I thought Garou was based in a Japanese term
>>85514722Why would you think that? Loup-garou is French for werewolf.
>>85513630Camazotz because bats are cool, for Nuwisha because why do we need a breed that's just Ragabash: the breed
>>85514029Answer the fucking questions
>>85513884>Bastet>Nosferatu>Euthanatos for some reason>Aware, Arete Seven>Black Spiral Dancers>Ragabash>Nocker>Visionary >Nagah Hengeyokai
>>85513980>Assamite SorcererI was one of those anons last thread. If you use DAV20 rules, it's not that bad.
>>85513884...I think I should see a psychiatrist.
What does this say about me?
>>85515322Based, but also repugnant.
Fuck you, too, test.
>>85512986Is possible to play a sorcerer that throws a fireballs?
>>85513700>Mage exists as a splat that people talk about, no one actually fucking plays it.Just because you're a No Game, doesn't mean others are.
What the fuck, though.
>>85515687Yes. Hellfire always existed.
>>85515869I'm not an asshole though. Nor rich. I have no idea why did I get the Fucked-up trio so high.
>>85515858Stop fucking your sister, anon
>>85509896You have a link? I'd like to see if there's more and text to read/translate with it.
>>85513142You expect people to act like people and talk about limits and stuff up front. There's so many spergs in this community, and with the randos that come together from game finder threads to play together, shit like this is inevitable.
>>85513884Ive got Lasombra 100%,Setites/Ventrue 73%,Assamites 63%. What does that say about me,i lurk sometimes in here and have never played vtm?
Why do the Nine Traditions all suck?
>>85514843Fine, tell me how I did. I don't play owod so I have no idea
>>85516543It's an optical illusion. They all look like ugly sisters next to their Technomancer counterpart.
Suppose you are given the chance to become whatever splat you wantBUT you are now 6 years old and you are going to age normally, nothing you can do about it, no way to change your appearance to look older/age faster/any other loophole.Do you take the deal?
>>85516658So I get to be a cool supernatural creature and also extend my own lifespan? Not seeing the problem here.
>>85516658>no way to change your appearance to look older/age faster/any other loopholeTemporis disagrees.
>>85516658>you get additional years of lifeyeswhatever it is
>>85516543Because being a "wizard" is gay.
>>85510692"real life folklore" isn't just one thing in one book. appealing to a vague nebulous pile of self-contradictory bs as an authority is lazy wankery
>>85512327Sorcerers are magic users with power levels closer to the the other games, Like, you buy into the paradigm of awakened sorcerers enough to get static magic that works. No dynamic casting, but still good
>>85516543Because they're all a 90s postmodernist idea of what magic looks like. The 90s were fucked in the head.
>>85512986Sorcerer book looks nice. I love Mage but something about Sorcerers just makes me want to run a game with them more.
>>85516543>Why do the Nine Traditions all suck?I didn't like them at first and the Technocracy is better but I have come around. Order of Hermes was my least favorite into my favorite
>>85516543Maybe because the writers began to realize that the technocracy are the ultimate good guys of the setting. As far as the safety of humanity is concerned, they have shit down pact. A tad authoritarian of course, but when you share a world with pentex, vampires and nephandi, you can't let any if those fuckers have a voice
>>85516905And they were written by people who think that bringing back society to the dark ages is less "stasis" than technology and science.
>>85516658How can I age normally as a vampire? Or are we just bending the rules to fit the hypothetical? If so, yes I want to be a cammy vampire. I just hate the sun, simple as. Ill spend the rest of my life learning disciplines and doing my best to keep my humanity up while living forever.
Justin Achilli has confirmed on his Twitter that W5 werewolves can be born from humans, werewolves or wolves, but this no longer makes a mechanical difference and is solely a non-impactful flavour thing.
>>85517056Do you got M20 Sorcerer? Can you drop it on NewVola, please?
>>85517214>Get rid of Werewolf-on-Werewolf abominations because you used a racial term for it>Heavily rumored to be getting rid of "problematic" packs>But dogfucking is still inwhy
>>85516905I cannot bear to imagine how M5 turns out.
>>85517237We are using Paths now or even worse: Pillar system from Dark Age.
>>85517231They still need to gather the sweet furry money. Who do you think is nurishing Werewolf industry in general?
>>85517430Gotta love furries.
>>85513849That's only a thing in Changeling the Lost with Hedge ghosts and changelings that decided to be immortal
>>85517237>I cannot bear to imagine how M5 turns out.I bet they are going to slap on the Arcanum from Awakening onto Ascension. Keep Arete as a dice pool talk about how the Technocracts are the Man and bad guys that want to make the world normal and bad.
>>85516658mage, thats basically already my current character lmao
>>85517873Tell me more
>>85517917ive already posted a few threads back butnewly awakened mage with a dreamspeaker-ish paradigm (basically mostly copying garou spirit magic) being dragged by a red talon across a country to a Winter Pack caern because they think that sacrificing a mage will save gaia
>>85509526Lupus already confirmed in the Heart of the Forest text adventure game
>>85518035Didn't that come out before the game changed its developer?
>>85517430>>85517231Would imagine woof on woof sex is more furry cause you'd actually get bipedal humanlike wolves. I do wonder if they're gonna address the issue of bestiality at all. I remember one of the editions saying that most homid garou finding breedig with wolves gross and all kind of weird and this being one of the reasons why lupus garou are so rare these days. Just another way in which the Garou nation is fucked up.>you WILL commit bestiality>you WILL commit to raising the resulting offspring as your own
>>85518054No idea but one of the npcs you meet in the game is a lupus. Imo a decently done one at that
>>85509526> metis binnedwtf one of the best anthologies features a wholesome black spiral metis who gets raised as a child of gaia
>>85518035that was before w5https://mobile.twitter.com/jachilli/status/1554166505230712832breeds are out completely
M20 Sorcerer has already outsold H5 on DTRPG.
>>85518096Werewolf the "we already have Forsaken at home"calypse
>>85518097While I do think H5 is mega wank, M20 Sorcerer is less than half the price, part of a supplement to part of an entrenched franchise, a fairly straightforward update to a very popular set of books, AND is only available on DTRPG. So it shouldn't really be all that surprising.
>>85518114it's that all of the 5 editions? we wanted to make cofd content, but paradox says wod is more profitable so well just make a shittier version of that?
>>85518125Kinda. 5th ed games are lots of "we'll take all the bits we like from CofD and not think it through". Honestly, if Achilli is just trying to tank 5th so OPP can do more 20th and CofD I'd applaud the effort.
>>85518097Those lists are chronogicaly, not sales based
>>85518125>>85518137I wish 5th was mechanically more solid. They could have taken what worked from CofD and what worked from WoD and finally made a WoD system that wasn't just serviceable at best. Even if the lore still sucked it'd be fine because you can ignore most of that.Instead we got a jumbled mess with a handful of good ideas stuck in an overall confused game that mechanically trend chases without understanding it.
>>85518147The best seller status in the right corner is sales based.
>>85518097Gibe Sorcerer, plz
>>85518148Man, I really enjoy CofD's system. I'm not sure their is much they could've taken from oWoD that would have made it better for me.
>>85518155Sales based that they get on the list, not the order within the list.Or do you realy think h5 outsold v5?
>>85518137i kinda wish that was true because then in a decade or so we could have hope for a 6e wod and or a 3e cofd, but whitewolfdox has been so much of a clowns circus i can't help but to apply hanlon's razor
>>85518177Silver means it sold more than Copper, anon. Are you okay? It's only chronological in the same category.
>>85518169I've played a decent amount of CofD, and it's definitely the better of the two systems, but I'd call it average in the grand scheme of things. Serviceable. My gripes are>0exp starting characters feel fairly tepid unless you do some goofy minmaxing which isn't actually that optimal>Players that are good at hitting aspirations and resolve conditions can rapidly outpace other characters, I've seen 20+exp gaps at the end of long campaigns>Meh combat>Merits are fun and a good way to catch-all everything not covered, but can bloat pretty bad>How fun and well designed the supernatural powers are varies wildly from splat to splatI've played a pretty sizable amount of it so not all of these would be apparent to some joe schmo, but they could definitely have improved on CofD's system.
Can someone explain Mage to me, an idiot? As understand it, The Nine Traditions and the Technocratic Union are like the Camarilla and Sabbat for Mages, but their unable to pick their “sect”. That’s because a mage’s “clan”, Tradition, is hard-coded to each “sect”. So what the fuck are factions within Traditions? Are they like bloodlines? And how to Spheres work? Do they work like Disciplines, having a set of abilities at each dot?
>>85518125So changeling the dreaming 5th edition will be changing the lost but owod? In the eyes of the community I guess thatd be an improvement?
>>85518240mages work on something called paradigms basically believe systems that enable their magic in addition to their sparkall the traditions and the technocrats (and the smaller alliances) all have a unique paradigmslike the hermetics who belief in hermetic magic (magic a is magic a) inside the order of hermes you have however different houses who focus on different magic so you can have someone who puppets clockwork dolls, a harry potter cosplayer and a dnd wizard wannabe in the same faction there exist however also people with unique views on magic that aren't part of any tradition called orphans and you can in theory switch sides and traditions, but that usually involves brainwashing so you can accept your new fractions paradigms and do magic like they do (like a hermes boy may cast fire ball with a wand and sulfur while a crat would probably shoot one from his magic tech apple watch, but it's the same fire ball)spheres do not have powers assigned to dots (if you really want that look up sorcerers who use a thaumaturgy like path system) as it's a open ended magic system like there are some spells in the books as examples what the different spheres can do together, but you and the st are encouraged to make up spell on your own.. which is why mage is such a pain to run
>>85518240a tradition or technocratic faction has a unique "belief system" that serves as how a mage structures their magic. each tradition or faction has a sphere of magic that a mage gets a discount for when buying dots with exp. a mage can also join a more independent craft or be an orphan with a unique paradigm and can choose any sphere to get a bonus for at character creation.a sphere is like an aspect of reality that a mage can control and more dots in a sphere allows a mage to have more control over that aspect. the casting system is pretty freeform and you can combine spheres. theres also rotes which are the closest thing to specific spells but its not required.plot wise, the both sides are fighting an ascension war and want the world to completely believe in either magic or technology (with exceptions to the sons of ether and virtual adepts in the traditions). they both believe that their paradigm is the one that will allow humanity to finally ascend except the technocracy's actions causes the world to be a more mundane and meaningless place as people lose their sense of wonder towards scientific progression and thus the true potential of technology has been relatively stagnant (which is partially why the sons of ether defected). however, the traditions were implied to be as bad as the technocracy in the far past. the technocracy also has void engineers which are basically the token good faction and a huge reference to warhammer space marines.
>>85518258It will be all the bad parts from Lost with all the bad parts from dreaming...
>>85518282I'd say the proto-Traditions were worse than the Technocracy. At least the Technocracy still tries to protect humanity.Also, Ascension is rather incoherent the more you think about it, especially the whole Science is Magick stuff.>>85518304What parts of Lost are bad?
>>85518339>What parts of Lost are bad?1e had absolute garbage contracts below the 4th dot and 2e has very barebones pledges. Some also dislike the Gentry and Durance (aka how you become a changeling).
>>85518339its more matter is the way it is, being composed of atoms and etc, is purely due to the fact that most of humanity believes it to be, and any new scientific discovery is the equivalent of creating a new technocracy rote.also the proto-Traditions were solely controlled by the order of hermes while the others were more isolationist and the technocracy is a bit incompetent at actually protecting humanity when you look at what the vampires and pentex are able to get away with, with the technocracy only saving humanity once when they nuked an antediluvian out of existance during the week of nightmares. overall I would say that in the modern era the traditions are better than the technocracy though, but they're both fundamentally good in nature
>>855183621e Pledges were utterly broken, so I'm okay with how they work in 2e.>>85518365Most of humanity has no idea how atoms work and still believes in invisible sky gods. Even in so called civilized countries like the USA, creationism has a huge following and it only gets worse in the third world.And if we view most scientific achievement as the work of the TU, I'd say they have far more for humanity than the traditions.
>>85518452well I think the authors have literally stated that the world of oWoD is a bit darker and slightly different from out world and I think m20 allows for the consesus to be weaker in places where people still believe in mysticism. besides that, theres supposed to be a difference between the faith of the masses and "true faith" as an actual merit.
>>85518452>>85518483forgot to add, people can believe that products function because science!!!! without questioning it as since science and religion are not mutually exlusive in the first place. also creationism probably explains why both gaia/the triad and god are still part of the consesus and able to affect the world with their agents
>>85518525Most people are pretty much cargo cultists who believe in shit like the CSI zoom.
>>85518365>the technocracy is a bit incompetent at actually protecting humanity when you look at what the vampires and pentex are able to get away with, with the technocracy only saving humanity once when they nuked an antediluvian out of existance during the week of nightmares. overall I would say that in the modern era the traditions are better than the technocracy though,The Technocracy deals with the vast majority of supernatural threats. Even cleansing entire Alternative Earth's if needed. Just because most of them aren't mentioned doesn't mean they are incompetent.
>>85519279Should mention that the most pressing extraterrestrial threat is also the Technocracy's senior management.
>>85519279So the technocracy are heroes?
>>85518452What’s so broken about 1e pledges?>>85518362Can confirm the lower dots of a 1e contract tend to be very underwhelming
>>85519504>So the technocracy are heroes?It is owod so no, even if it makes more sense that way.
Brainlet here.Is it me or is Prime quite limited in scope?MtA.
>>85516905The syncretic aspect in the traditions is not really a relic of postmodernist 90s. It really originates from New Thought in the late 19th century and relates with how Crowley functioned or how Wicca formed.
>>85519536>What’s so broken about 1e pledges?The system was so open-ended and exploitable that it was better to just create pledges for everything instead of buying anything else with your xp.
>>85520135Well yeah making your own web of pledges in exchange for power is peak Changeling
>>85519536>What’s so broken about 1e pledgesYou had every merit at 5 dots at will and around +10 to all dice pools, as long as there was another changeling nearby you trusted. There was literally no need to use anything but pledges ever, as in no one i played with would spent exp on contracts until they where able to buy up to the 4th or 5th dot at once (except some like Hearth or spring).
>>85520127What are mummies even like?
>>85514741Not that anon but Garou means hungry wolf in Japanese so I can see how a weeb who didn't know anything about werewolf folklore might make that mistake
>>85520180Mechanicaly you didn't need a web. Just one or two motley mates nearby
>tfw you realize Virtual Adepts have unrestricted access to every OnlyFans accountSign me up for that Tradition.
>>85520290mummies are the ultimate boomers
>>85520378That'd be garō. This is one of those weeb things where they think that's how the language works because of translation. Translators change spellings for shit all the time.
>>85520430>>85520212Noone in my Motley trusts each other enough to do something like that. Our Motley is so fucking scuffed. If we weren't a Motley there would have probably been bloodshed between certain members already. Like, we trust each other enough to do our jobs, but when it comes to anything non-"work" related our characters aren't really that close at best
>>85520378>Garou means hungry wolf in JapaneseThat must be one of those very obtuse portmanteaus the 11s are fond of. The alternative would be too much of a stretch.
>>85520180Eh, I think the way 2E contracts and pledges work brings things into a way better feel and balance.
>>85520582>That'd be garō. This is one of those weeb things where they think that's how the language works because of translation. Translators change spellings for shit all the time.This is the most asinine shit i've ever read on this board. No, you using a different romanization style does not change the fact that garou means hungry wolf. Garou and garō are the exact same fucking word
>>85518226But I like all that stuff, and it's not like oWoD's got anything better going on there.
>>85520290If it's Resurrection mummies, they're modern people with part of a perfect soul grafted onto them, that makes them unkillable sorcerers, and they're instructed to go be WoD superheroes.
>>85520601Current Motley:>Teahouse-owning fashionista femboy>Reclusive summer knight who looks like a homeless man and lives in his giant Hollow, which he let the rest buy in on*>Quiet hacker girl>Wendigo*I'll note that this player tends to be a min-maxing crafter type in general. When we played Exalted he rolled up a Sidereal with a 5-dot Manse and Factory Cathedral.
>>85520694I'll note too that the native JP word for wolf is Okami.
>>85522148Yes, Okami is the word for wolf and uses this kanji 狼. When you combine the kanji for wolf 狼 and the kanji for hunger/starving 餓, you get garou 餓狼 which means starving wolf
is it just me or do more foids play this (especially VTM) compared to say DnD?
Anyone here got M20 Sorcerer to share, please? Thanks in Advance!
>>85518117Plus H5 is available other places. Any X20 stuff isn't.
>>85522793I said that
>>85522802I mention it simply because a lot of people think of *only* DTRPG as a place to get stuff regardless of edition, so sometimes people forget that the X5s are available elsewhere explicitly. We've had tons of arguments here before because people don't bother to think about that.
>>85522018What about cofd mummies?
Speaking of mummies, both cofd and owod, are they just relegated to Egypt? Or is there more of them around the world?
>>85523145Mainly Egypt or Egypt-inspired lore, but it's any mummies so make all the Aztec luchas you want.
>>85523145cofd mummies originate in the area that became egypt but they could end up anywherethey have a power which, as an ancillary effect, can open up a door that takes you to a random location, and this was used both to escape danger and to colonize other places
>>85523274Are all cofd mummies sourced from that area, or have there been mummies actually created elsewhere?
>>85523303Probably the former, but it's worth noting that mummies can and do change bodies so if you want to be asian or european or what have you there's nothing stopping you
>>85523338Good to know. Now i’m assuming that mummies are incredibly powerful, but how do their servants measure up? I know they can learn sorcerous rites, how do they scale compared to major/minor splats?
>>85523407Generally I would put Sorcerers and Immortals as more powerful than Wolf-Blooded but less powerful than Ghouls. It's worth noting, though, that Sorcery is pretty open ended, and that Immortal Inheritors gain access to the first tier of Utterances that the Mummy possesses, and are allowed to learn supernatural Merits. Under the right circumstances they can be pretty powerful, but it's hard to argue with a Ghoul who has invested in Celerity and Vigor
>>85523494I think CofD ghouls are just really good, as they get mortal Supernatural Merits plus most of the active upsides of the vampire templates (Disciplines, Devotions, some unique Merits) with few downsides beyond Vitae limitations and that pesky blood bond, which is much less nasty than it looks. Integrity is almost trivial to manage next to Humanity, too.
Are there a lot of Latinas in the Toreador clan?
>>85523693I don't think Ghouls can learn Devotions but otherwise you are correct
>>85522126Doss everyone have sex with the quite hacker girl
>>85513884I'm friggin twisted
>>85524053Nope. She's Winter. My character is the Spring.
>>85524282you were saying?
>>85522126Current Motley:>Kitsune swordsman occultist from 1500s Japan that was from a Mage family, runs a shinto shrine. He's got an eidetic memory and 5 dots of Occult, which is extremely useful.>Deer shrine-maiden from 1500s Japan with a 5 dot Hedgebeast friend. Relatively fresh out of the Hedge. Her Keeper stole one of the Raccon's daughters.>Middle-aged Raccoon thief that married into a Mage family, relatively fresh out of the Hedge>Mirrorskin heavy-metal guitarist with a giant guitar-sword that apparently can warp reality. They're part of a band that recently all(but one) got ensorcelled. >Old, cold(as in literally), vietnam veteran catholic priest that really, really, REALLY hates Mages, specifically has a grudge against one of the Raccoon's Mage family members. He got stabbed by a vampire a few months ago and always seems like a raving fucking shizophrenic.Can you see where the conflict comes from? The more we uncover the worse it gets.
Did they forget the Mana Background in S20 or are Sorcerers supposed to rely entirely on Tass if they don't have Quintessence Manipulation?
please please please tell me about the salubri in your chronicles
What are the chances M5 Virtual Adepts will have references to 4chan?
>>85525429Depends on which company develops it and where their freelancers are from
>>85525125Practically non-exintent. Strangely, few people want to play a Clan whose signature Discipline is healing others. But I sure would like to fuck one of those three-eyed freaks, if you know what I mean.
>>85524395>>85522126This is a more compelling sales pitch for changeling than anything I've seen posted before.
>>85525429>Virtual AdeptsThey are called the Mercurial Elite now.
>>85507023Does DAV20 have guidelines for how many experience points one ought to give? If so, where?
>>85523752Mostly just THOTs
What would a Magical Girl be considered, a Sorcerer or an Awakened?
>>85526306Awakened, maybe even a Marauder depending on what you do with the concept.
>>85525477>Strangely, few people want to play a Clan whose signature Discipline is healing others.I'm pretty sure there would be someone out to play something different.
>>85525477Are you sure it’s not a case of stigma against playing a “special snowflake” clan?
>>85527009Shut the fuck up, usurper. Don't you have an Elder you need to be sucking off right about now?
>>85527085I put it in quotes because I hate the concept of “special snowflake _______”
>>85508184>>85512206>>85517215>>85518097M20 Sorcerer is already in newvola.
Are sorcerers basically just humans with Thaumaturgy paths or is there more to it than that?
>>85527133the version I know, pretty much.
>>85527133There's more in that because some Paths are more versatile than Thamaturgy, who can only do one thing per power.
>>85525125>tfw have wanted to play a Salubri forever but always the STSadness, my players would likely attack one on sight Tremere social head of the group and I don't wanna use a concept I'd like to play as an NPC, to avoid STNPC shit
>>85526554CofD Deviant (Coactive)
>>85525888It doesn't, as far as I can tell
This is retarded. DAV20 doesn't even have guidelines for how many experience points you should be giving out? What the actual fuck?
>>85527718Frogbro, is that you?
>>85527802Nah it's NEETzsche if you know that name.
>>85527718>This is retarded. DAV20 doesn't even have guidelines for how many experience points you should be giving out?I presume that it is the same as regular vampire.
>>85527846>presumeNah, the book discusses experience points extensively, it just doesn't specify how many you give out. And all the Clans and shit are changed around significantly. This is actually just an oversight outright.
>>85527867Just use the V20 guidelines like >>85527846 said. It works fine.
>>85527916DAV20 canonically doesn't require any other books. They canonically don't get any experience, or at best, get an unspecified amount.
>>85527867eh, I was just saying that you should probably give the same amount of XP as a modern vampire game, significantly more than the roughly 3 per session guidelines.
>>85528085Yeah I'll have to house rule in some kind of experience point thing. Otherwise, they never develop. But they actually say in the DAV20 book that you don't need any other books, which means that canonically it's unspecified and any solutions I come up will, fundamentally, be house rules. I shouldn't have to house rule in experience points.
>>85528102but speaking of experience, how much do you think its a good amount per session for each splat?
>>85527109What makes salubri special snowflakes? All I know about them are the third eyes and valeren.
>>85528132It basically says "just make it up." I might use the DAV1.0 rules for this. I really do think there should be more of a system than "make it up."
>>85528138>What makes salubri special snowflakes?mostly the player base and their savior/angelic themes.
>>85528187I prefer Lasombra
>>85527009>>85527109>“I hate fun.”That’s all you had to say.
What is your favorite clan and why?
>>85528138>What makes salubri special snowflakes?They've struggled to find their niche since they were introduced. They existed only to explain the Tremere for a long time, their powers are also pretty shitty since they're basically a "Healing" clan, save for the ones that aren't who can inexplicably manifest holy-style powers that don't really fit the setting. As a whole they seem like no one knew what to do with them, so the solution was "They just do the opposite of what other clans do".
>>85528287>reads tzi text>it's just butthurt kek
>>85528418Yeah, just ignore the Warrior caste.
>>85528224>>85528138I'm not trying to call the Salubri special snowflakes, i'm trying to say that I don't like the idea of calling something a special snowflake whatever because trying to keep people from playing more obscure or less-played things by calling them special snowflakes is fucking stupid.
>>85528287>we are not just better vampiresYeah, you're shitty mages. Tremere could've mastered the cosmos and they gave it up to be blood junkies, are there any bigger losers?
>>85528503Speaking if shit I never see anyone mention playing, do the African and South American vampires just such or? To be honest I haven't even a wiki page about them because I just do not give a shit about places that aren't Europe or USA even though I'm Hispanic myself.
>>85528554No one cares about Mage's retcon powerwankery.
>>85528563Pretty sure they got cancelled because if someone tried really hard they could find some reason to get offended on behalf of people they've probably never met.
>>85528563The Laibon (book) have their own Bloodlines. 20th and v5 hinted that South America and certain areas of North America have "Drowned Legacies", some types of Vampire that are descended of something other than Caine.
>>85528643>some types of Vampire that are descended of something other than Caine.So they hinted at a third type of vampire, only to never elaborate on it?
>>85528643>some types of Vampire that are descended of something other than Caineso just a different type of undead like the Kuei-jin?
>>85528663Well, they were only referenced in Beckett’s Jyhad Diary. Not like anything in v5 has taken place anywhere besides Europe and the U.S.A.
Hey guys, who are the Oneira, Lords of Dream, where can I find information about them?
>>85528563>Speaking if shit I never see anyone mention playing, do the African and South American vampires just such or? To be honest I haven't even a wiki page about them because I just do not give a shit about places that aren't Europe or USA even though I'm Hispanic myself.the African vampires are fine but I doubt most people would be interested in the setting. As for the Drowned Legacies... there is very little about them, not enough to be playable without making a couple of disciplines at the very least.>>85528696>so just a different type of undead like the Kuei-jin?Not really. there a couple that hint at that but given that there is a Settite bloodline as one of their main factions its not unreasonable to say that they are on the same situation as the Liabon.
>>85528782>the Liabonthe what?
>>85528717Is this from Dreaming? Or maybe Awakening?
>>85528663>>85528696All we know so far is that only two NPCs have shown up and both have a generation listed as "Effectively 4th", with extremely high Blood Potency. They have 6 Disciplines, but both share Blood Sorcery, Fortitude, and Presence.Their flavor of Blood Sorcery is considered "Cultivar Magic", which is similar to the Bahari, however it centers more on pain and sacrifice for the land, mimicing certain NA Native beliefs and Aztec sacrificial offerings of blood.One of the Meths traces her bloodline back to Lilith, and she worships something called The Ancestor, which sleeps below Lake Michigan.The other sleeps under a tree that's grown fat with its blood and brings a bountiful harvest that's blood-bound the locals who eat the crop yield over the generations. There's a plot-point that the vitae from these crops is so thick that PC's who feed on the townspeople that eat from them have a chance of becoming 1 step towards bonding with the slumbering Meth under the tree.Both of the NPCs are classified as Caitiff as they don't suffer from any known Bane.They're both Native American, and pre-date the settlement of America by Europeans by several thousand years, which within WoD's timeline would put their Embrace around the same era as the First City.
>>85528794The bloodlines of Africa. Similar to the Kuei Jin because they claim to be different from Kindred. Similar to Kindred because they use Disciplines and feed like them.
>>85528861Holy shit a google search turns up LITERALLY nothing in regards to the Liabon, I have never seen shit like this with owod before
>Vampire gets discussed ITT>Werewolf gets discussed ITT>Mage surprisingly gets discussed ITT>Changeling gets discussed>Even fucking Mummy gets a mentionHey guys, remember Wraith exists? ha ha
>>85528906Because it's spelled Laibon, not Liabon.
>>85528861>Similar to the Kuei Jin because they claim to be different from Kindred.Yeah their morality and generation shenanigans are different from normal vamps. iirc their humanity is like the Hun and Po from the Kuei Jin and when they lose or gain humanity they just shift the balance of those stats.
>>85528915>Hey guys, remember Wraith exists? ha haNot in CofD it doesn't. I'm about to start talking about SIn Eaters to spite you
>>85528915>Hey guys, remember Wraith exists? ha haI'm not familiar enough with them to discuss their stuff in any meaningful manner.
>>85528944Sure, what is the best way to go about making a combat focused Sin Eater?
>>85528271Toreador. Because they have all the babes.
>>85528944I don’t remember asking about the inferior CofD.
>>85528997I have no clue, I haven’t finished reading the core book. I will say though, as someone who’s only had a bit of experience with Changeling, seeing that they could reflexively spend a plasm to heal one of any damage nearly made me spit my drink out when I read it
Does anyone know a program or website that helps with building factions and groups and stuff? Something that can let me write and also make hierarchy graphs and stuff
>>85529061>seeing that they could reflexively spend a plasm to heal one of any damage nearly made me spit my drink out when I read itVampires can do the same with Vitae.
>>85529167Why can't Changelings get cool religious superpowers and reflexive healing like every other splat
>>85529061It's downgrade a damage. Which is still very good, but it's not quite heal a damage good. Although with the amount of Plasm they can just conjure from Keys in a turn they can be stupidly hard to put down. >>85529167It's 1 for 1 on a Sin-Eater for any damage. They downgrade Agg into Lethal for just 1 plasm. They also benefit from mortal healing rates. If that wasn't good enough the healing can occur before damage is even taken. So you can just entirely soak attacks. So long as they've got enough Plasm it's hard to kill them. Even if you do kill them they're hard to keep dead.
>>85529199I'm reading 1e stuff, so for me it's a total heal of any damage for 1 plasm with the drawback that at the end of the scene all healed damage comes back, but only as bashing damage. It's fucking absurd>>85529230I'm not Japanese nor a wizard from Web 1.0, so I don't have those kinds of Excel skills
>>85529243Ah, 1e is super rough basically all around mechanically. Especially Manifestations which are probably the most janky powerset in nWoD. The setting is a fun read though.
>>85529179Probably because Spring healers are very powerful, on par with Life 4 Mages in raw healing skill (though not in medical talent), at a relatively cheap cost of only needing Spring Mantle 3 and the Gift of Warm Blood contract.>>85529199Vamps use Resilience to downgrade attacks as well, up to 5 (dot rating) passively, and nullify dots+1 with a vitae. Not the same thing, sure, but there's useful things that are similar in and among the different splats.
>>85529268Haven't gotten to Manifestations yet, still on the Threshold section (which is a really weird name for what it is). What's jank about Manifestations?
>>85529355Resilience isn't a baseline ability. Dummy.
>>85529364It's one of the standard disciplines any Kindred can easily learn, and is very good to have.
>>85529392But it's not baseline.
>>85528643I'm not convinced they're actually all that, they're likely just of extremely potent generation and maybe have some extra disciplines from Lilith worship. V5 gives out free discipline dots for Predator Type after all.
>>85529356They're incredibly messy. Manifestations mostly share the same format, they're 1-5 dots and each dot makes the base power better. Unlike Disciplines, Gifts, or Contracts, each dot isn't a new power. The core book has 7 Manifestations. So far so good. The jank comes in with Keys. Keys are the second part of Manifestations, in order to use a Manifestation you need a Key. There are 10 Keys each with a different theme. When you use a Key to active a Manifestation the version of that Manifestation you get depends on the Key you use. So each Manifestation is actually 10 separate 1-5 dot powers, and a lot of the time these Manifestations are wildly different than each other. So the Industrial Caul and the Tear-Stain Caul are both radically different powers with an overarching motif of "merge with a ghost". Otherwise they barely even have the same structure. The whole thing is just really hard to grapple with, and all those options makes it impossible to balance, and when they introduce new Keys and a Manifestations it gets worse. A new Key means a new version of every Manifestation, a new Manifestation needs a version for every Key. It's a really really cool idea for a power set but it's super unwieldy and it's nature makes to very hard to balance.
>>85521999You like meh combat? What?oWoD's freebie points were a good way to make your character a bit more rounded or focused without dramatically altering their power level. For example, playing a young character with lots of potential but little skill? Higher attributes, nothing extra in skills. Flaws (which were abandoned entirely by CofD) are another fun little character thing that could help flesh them out, though I'd definitely make them an optional rule because STs really need to know when to say "that's enough" to their players. And to actually make the flaws legitimate flaws and not just a way to get extra points.CofD character creation is a little too even for me, even as optional rules, I'd like a way besides starting exp to give character creation a bit more wiggle room, especially to help out players who might not be to used to a la carte character progression.Unless you're just that guy who just thinks CofD is a literally perfect system, in which case I just wasted my time typing that up.
>>85529780I just like the combat, don't mind starting off relatively low powered, and prefer the merit set up to freebie points. Crazy shit, I know.
>>85529780Flaws are just Conditions, anon. nWoD 1e Flaws are the exact same mechanic as a Persistent Condition. Which is a thing you can have if you like. Also doesn't have the free XP problem as in both 1e and 2e they only give XP/beats if they significantly impede you.
>>85528853>PC's who feed on the townspeople that eat from them have a chance of becoming 1 step towards bonding with the slumbering Meth under the treeI like it. Cainites don't become bloodbound from feeding from eachother's ghouls, so there's a way to fuck yourself over just by presuming this was a Cainite.
>>85529826There's nothing intrinsically opposed about freebies and merits. Freebies give you a little bit more stuff to round yourselves out with, merits are their own thing that covers whatever doesn't fit into attributes/skills/powers.Heck, even HTV 2e kinda admits that extra starting experience is good to round stuff out by giving you 7 merits and 3 exp rather than 10 merits. I don't even dislike CofD as a system, but I keep encountering this bizarre notion that it's totally perfect from certain anons here, and can't be improved in any way. >>85529862The persistent conditions in the book, even if you were let to start with, don't really serve the same purpose as flaws. Just looking at the core, they're not remotely created equal. Mute will almost always come up unless most of your party grabs sign language, making it either a ludicrous beat farm or no beats at all. In VTR, none of the persistent conditions are tied to odd quirks of the blood, and most of them are just discipline effects that would be resolved normally even if they last for a long period of time. They don't really offer the same kind of character gradient, and what's the harm in an optional rule?
>>85530033Anon, them only granting beats when they make problems is the entire point. If you're having to overcome challenge after challenge because of them then you should have Beats. They're only as rewarding as they are severe. That's how XP work. Surmount challenges for progression. If your ST VtR vamps also have banes, and bloodline weaknesses, for those sorts of "odd quirks of the blood". It's not VtM so the same assumptions don't strictly apply.
>>85530124Banes are nice and all , but they're annoying to get and tucked away in a weird spot in the book. That's something all WoD games could benefit from, better structured books. And I know they grant beats when they become a problem, and that's the point. You should try to talk down to people less. The problem is how easily abusable that could be, further widening the exp gap between a new player who might struggle with aspirations and resolving conditions and the experienced player who knows exactly what to do. So you wind up with the same problem as flaws where the ST still has to smack the power-gamer over the head if he gets out of line.You can talk about how neat CofD's character creation is, and I might even agree. But the fact the system never quite eclipsed its forbearers can't be laid entirely on people preferring the old setting. oWoD was busted, absolutely mechanically bonkers and imbalanced. I hate to say it, but if Chronicles really was this perfect system with no flaws, people wouldn't still be playing V20 to this day. People would have been begging for V5 to be a Chronicles port for VTM, rather than simply take some of its ideas, regardless of how it actually turned out. As much as I have shilled for doing a VTR-VTM conversion on this very general, that's effort. Effort people aren't willing to put in for a moderate increase in system quality. Lastly some game design choices aren't objective, again the relative popularity suggests that a decent amount of people enjoy and prefer the more "fill it in" character creation of oWoD. It's why this whole argument started with my lament that V5 wasn't a perfect synthesis of old and new, but a slap-dash combining with a few good ideas. Even if there's a single good idea in oWoD, it should be considered to make a better game.
>>85530288They're in the weakness section. Because they're weaknesses. At the end of Humanity because it is a part of that subsystem. Would you prefer it to not be next to humanity and in the Discipline chapter instead? They give 1 beat a chapter when they're significant problems. You have to actually cause a significant problem for the beat. It's not just beats for nothing. If you want to go making problems for yourself to get 1 beat a chapter than that's totally cool. I don't much care that CofD is less popular, I like it more. No one has said it's perfect either. You keep saying people are saying that when no one has actually said that.
>>85530033Sure, but I prefer just having a chunk of merit dots than just a chunk of freebie points. I would prefer not to have a mix of the two really either because I don't think it adds much. Merits are also not really just their own thing. They touch upon Attributes, Skills, and power a lot too. You don't just need more Skill dots to be better with Skills than someone else, you can spend Merit dots on shit like Area of Expertise, Encyclopaedic Knowledge, Professional Training, and you've got similar things for Attributes too like Iron Stamina, or Strength Performance, and Merits are often just entirely new powers or additions to existing ones. Mortals always get less Merit dots, they only get 7 in coer CofD too. HtV gives 3xp because they're experienced mortals by nature, it also gives them a free dot of Professional Training to boot. They have an edge on default mortals so they get mechanical advantages. Same reason MtC gives 10 xp. It's part of a baseline assumption about who you're playing. If you want more experienced characters than the base line. You have options for that in the form of XP. Merit dots are more valuable for supernatural though because they tend to have some fairly important options there. If you want PCs to be more skilled than the baseline assumptions you can just give XP out. That's the explicit point of that.No one said it was perfect. If you think "I like that stuff more than the other stuff" is the same sentence as "I think this thing is totally perfect" you might not be older enough to be posting here.
>>85530368>>85530386I get the vibe that certain posters treat it like the perfect game because I never hear them state the game's flaws themselves, and criticisms of the CofD system are often met by rebukes, regardless of what that critique is.So, in your opinion, what is the system's flaws? If you don't think it's perfect, surely you have some things you don't like about it. I'm not even trying to gotcha here, I legitimately want to know since I never see a criticism of the system met with anything but strong rebuffing.
>>85530474>and criticisms of the CofD system are often met by rebukes, regardless of what that critique is.Usually the "criticism" in these threads are baseless claims that it's "dead" from people who don't want it mentioned.
>>85530587Thus I repeat. So what are the system's actual flaws?
>>85530474That's a stupid assumption to make. Either way, CofD has problems like Conditions being really hard to reference when it'd usually be better for them to just appear next to the only thing that uses them. Like Disciplines or Haunts. The change from 1e to 2e style core books means games like Vampire miss out on some really effective subsystems like tilts or investigation, and all the games lose out on some more in-depth mechanical explanations of the core book, and they have less room dedicated to fluff and mechanics for that specific game line. So some things get skipped over that would be well worth mentioning. Some games have a couple of persistent editing issues like Promethean forgetting to list action types on Transmutations. Most of the core books have a problem with lack of antagonist diversity or examples, combined with a lack of simplified statblocks for mooks and non-combatants. It's just boring shit like that. Which is why you never hear many people really go on about it because it's not an interesting point to make and it's certainly not anything that makes for a discussion. If I go "I don't think Conditions are laid out as well as they should be" next thread people would just reply "yup, it's kinda shitty". What's the point in talking about boring shit like that? The complaints you'll see that get a lot of push back are either demonstrably untrue (like, I have how Covenants are so monolithic and all cities have them being the same), or are subjective matters that then make for interesting discussions (Ghosts in Geist 2e, or the Strix), or they're just interesting mechanical problems for 1e that don't exist in 2e (Manifestations vs Haunts, 1e Discipline/Bloodline design).I just don't want to have boring conversations that are just people nodding in agreement.
>>85530663So your complaints are just with how the book is laid out. The system is flawless, in your opinion?And seriously, you're not gonna convince people by insulting and talking down to them. It makes you seem like a snobby elitist who's assmad that his objectively superior game isn't getting recognized. Regardless of if that's your actual motive, I can't know that. The way you type doesn't inspire confidence you're arguing in good faith. Will you just cherry-pick this part and sidestep the other?
>>85530740I didn't say that. I don't many real issues with the system that wouldn't be solved through layout though. Why would I care about convincing people of anything? Doesn't matter to me what you think. Your opinion doesn't change my opinion nor the contents of the books. So why would I place any merit in what you think beyond it being cause for discussion? You are the one who seems to be getting more and more annoyed that I'm not taking your points seriously though. I'm sorry that "I think my major problems are boring conversation topics" has inspired such an annoyance in you. That is sort of the way of it though. You also didn't address either of these >>85530386 >>85530474 posts. Weird thing to call out someone else for "side-stepping" when you got a direct answer and ignore two large posts that were also direct answers.
>>85530740It's not flawless, nothing is, but it's generally a pretty good system at giving you a solid base and then getting out of the way when you're not needing mechanical rigor. The flaws mostly have to do with things that don't come up much and can be hard to look up in the books.>Douche trying to tell us we're the ones not arguing in good faith
>>85530740>>85530841>You also didn't address either of theseEither of these >>85530368 >>85530386 even.
>>85530841I didn't respond because we're in autosage and clearly not gonna convince each other of anything. We could go back and forth for the next three threads and not agree on anything. I wanted to see if you had any real problems with the system, just to see if these sorts of discussions will lead to anything. If you don't see a single mechanical flaw in CofD, then we have nothing to discuss. You think it's without mechanical flaw, I don't. There's no middle ground. Nothing to discuss.Also >>85530474 was literally me, I'm assuming you misclicked.If you wanna last word me before the thread dies, be my guess. Call me stupid again if it makes you feel better.
>>85530905Man, you've really got a problem with selective reading don't you? You're right about there being nothing to discuss though. Can't talk to someone who is being wilfully ignorant of what is being told to them so they can have an argument with themselves instead.
>>85530905>Will you just cherry-pick this part and sidestep the other?>I didn't respond because we're in autosage and clearly not gonna convince each other of anything.>It's okay for me to do it but not for you.Uh huh.
>>85530999>>It's okay for me to do it but not for you.I've seen a major rise in this kind of thinking lately. I'm not even sure the context of your discussion, but I really am seeing lots of "it's different when we do it" shit.
>>85531802The context was one anon has a preference, another anon disagrees with their preference. The first anon's preference wasn't changed by this but they did expand upon why they think that. The second anon restates their own preference and suggests they could have it their way and not impact the first anon. The first anon replies in greater detail about these preferences. The second anon then totally ignores the contents of this post to make a different point. When these points are replied to by a third anon the second anon replies by getting pissy over invented tone and complains that their points will just be side-stepped. When it is pointed out that the second anon side-stepped the first anon's points, as they were just complaining about hypothetically happening to them, they say it's okay for them to do it because of a reason that applies to everyone in the thread. Basically, they're just being a cunt.
>>85531849That's fair. The context doesn't change my view. I've just been in a lot of scenarios that went like this:Someone: "You are bad and wrong because Reason X."Me: "But you also must be bad because Reason X applies to you. In fact, it applied to you before it applied to me."Someone: "That's different. You see, Cope Y states that when I do it, it's okay."I used to think that this was a purely political issue. That is, I used to think it was mostly troons and leftoids that did this shit, but then I had some e-wignat /pol/ack chud types do the exact same thing, and I now am wondering if it's just a human thing in general, or if it's more just a product of the times. My gut is telling me it's more the latter desu, but this is all just subjective opinion, so by all means take it with a grain of salt.
>>85531876Sounds like confirmation bias you're finally shaking off to me.