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File: Magic Primer v3.3 (+0).png (2.04 MB, 1400x1659)
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Ritual edition! (Instant and sorcery cards that can add mana, either as their main effect or as a bonus.)

>To make cards, download MSE for free from here:
http://magicseteditor.boards.net/
>OR
>Mobile users might have an easier time signing up here:
https://mtg.design/

>Stitch cards together with
http://old.photojoiner.net/

>Hi-Res MSE Templates
https://pastebin.com/2AFqrY68

>Mechanics doc (For the making of color pie appropriate cards)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaKCOzyqM48dFdKRXpxTDRJelRGWVZabFhUU0RMcEE

>Color Pie mechanics
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2021-10-18

>Read this before you post cards for the first time, or as a refresher for returning cardmakers
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn1J1Mj-EvxMxca8aSRBDj766rSN8oSQgLMOXs10BUM

>Design articles by Wizards
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR

>Primer: NWO and Redflagging
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/578926-primer-nwo-redflagging

>Q: Can there be a sixth color?
A: http://pastebin.com/kNAgwj7i

>Q: What's the difference between multicolor and hybrid?
A: http://pastebin.com/yBnGki1C

>Q: What is precedence?
A: http://pastebin.com/pGxMLwc7

>Q: How can I proxy my cards for testing?
A: https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM // https://mtgprint.cardtrader.com

>Art sources
http://www.artstation.com/
https://cgsociety.org/
http://fantasygallery.net/
http://grognard.booru.org/
http://fantasy-art-engine.tumblr.com/
https://www.deviantart.com/

>/ccg/ sets
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj

Old thread:
>>85298584
>>
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>>85460088
>Ritual edition!
Don't mind if I do
Yes I did download the Yugioh templates just for this joke
>>
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>thread edition
Pic related. Not entirely happy with the name, but the card mechanics itself and even the flavor text I am. A rarity for me.

>response to multi-color mythic legend:
>>85458725
>>85459055

Thank you for making the thread op. Was cool that some other card systems had some brewing going on too for once.
>>
>>85458725
>playing your opponents deck half assed just isn't as good as being able to play your own better
Fair point. I think I did object a few times at how easy the exile effect was to pull off on some iterations.

Speaking of, going back to your MM01 iteations, I'm immediately against all of the "you may pay life equal to the damage dealt" abilities. Just feels like a shit rate. I think G is interesting for how it can function as impulse draw. Though I think I'd combine that with E for something like
>Whenever a source you control deals damage to a player, you may create a Treasure token and exile the top card of that player's library. [...]
Keeps the possibility of impulse draw and synergizes with self-damage cards. Not sure about being able to play the card for as long as it remains in exile though. Especially if a feature is to impulse yourself.

>Two days after this I went to the ER for bad chest pain and learned I was moments away from a heart attack
Ouch. Hope you recover soon and take steps to prevent a heart attack from happening in the future.

>>85446322
Never commented on these. Still like I a lot for the connection to the art and for keeping the "power matters" theme. Not really a fan of either of the others. The Fight focus just feels a bit odd to me. Think I'd prefer the earlier bait effects.

As for YM01... IDK, M? Just don't really connect with the lifegain focus of L.

>>85460416
Was debating with myself if Token creators count as ritual spells or not. Eh, whatever. Card seems decent, though I wonder if it could be instant. Also not sold on the name, but having a hard time coming up with something better.
>>
>>85460416
>>85460525
"just rewards" for the name?
>>
>>85460525
I may go for RG3i, since I do think it manages to leverage allowing your Vehicles to smack things when they ETB, although you are right that the fact that the legend himself is the one doing the damage ties into the art of him blasting a sea monster.
I may toss on Trample just so there's motivation to still attack with him on at least some occasions, but I wanted to try out the Fight design to see if the extra space could be used for anything interesting.

YM1 I went through quite a few iterations of, and generally the focus on flashing in creatures/Vehicles while also getting tokens from noncreature spells (thereby allowing you to flash in a Vehicle and then get a spare token to try and crew it) seemed to be the best angle. Lifelink and the lifegain were partly there just to make the card feel more White, because otherwise it's just granting flash and making elf tokens.
I did make pic related as a variation on it based on some of the remarks at the end of last thread, but it's largely just removing the cost of the earlier versions. YM1m is probably the simplest though.

That said, if I finalize RG3i and YM1m, it would mean I only have the mono-Green mythic to finish, minus any revisions of existing cards.

>>85460416
As far as the name goes, I think something simple is fine. Claim Bounty or Head Price as the only variations that immediately spring to mind.
>>
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thread theme

>>85460416
Three treasures is really another story than three mana.
Even with just two treasures the card would have potential
>>
>>85460258
Does the last ability tribute as effect rather than cost in order for it to be used as a Foolish effect?
>>
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TQ. Just something simple. Turn to Dust in white doing something white would do.
>>
>>85462848
Yeah, I styled it after the original Dragunity Knight - Gae Dearg, which gets to search for Dragon/Winged Beast monsters, but then requires you to discard them afterwards.
The gimmick of Nekroz is that they're Ritual versions of previously existing monsters, like how Nekroz of Areadbhair has a negate similar to Dragunity Knight - Areadbhair.
It's tributing in place of discard because Nekroz of Areadbhair does something similar. Of course, it can still be used as a more typical search, just at the cost of needing other monster in your hand to give up.
>>
>>85463798
Ah. Didn't look up Gae Dearg, would've answered my own question if it did. Haven't played Nekroz much (except for using Trishula in a Drytron deck) but I knew Nekroz did stuff with the graveyard, so I had the feeling it would make sense for them to have an archetypal Foolish effect. Good job changing it to tribute though to trigger effects.
>>
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>>85463283
sooo close to a non-chaff playable card
>>
>>85464601
I could optimize it, but chaff has its place too. I pride myself on making cards that would retail for $0.01 to $1, because making chase cards is boring.

I guess if I absolutely HAD to give this card a boost I'd add Cycling {2} and call it a day.
>>
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Last thread theme
>>
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Might've gone overboard with this.

>>85468772
I feel like this is just begging to be abused with bounce effects.
>>
>>85471000
only if your teammate happened to draft some
>>
>>85471024
I was thinking constructed. Sure, teams aren't the norm for constructed by any stretch, but still.
>>
>>85471038
Designated Hitter Turns Combo would be an incredibly based deck for a team constructed format
>>
bump
>>
>>85460088
Last thread had some Yugioh ressources being shared, are there any good templates for localized anime-style cards? YCM has some of that, but the colours are really off, not to mention the fonts.
>>
>>85473685
Not that I'm aware of, sorry. MSE is mostly focused on, well, Magic,. It's pretty unique in being a standalone card creator, so I highly doubt that other card creators like MSE exist for other games.

Remember, we only use MSE because, despite its many flaws, it's basically the only option we have besides MTG.Design, which is decent, and all the other online card creators, which tend to range from mediocre to downright awful.
>>
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>Ritual Edition
Made this design a year back, perfect excuse to post it.
>>
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>>85477451
Dammit, think I worded it wrong.
>>
>>85460525
Thank you for the feedback. I did take the ease factor into account for the new versions, so thank you. Your new suggestion would basically just be E swapping out the word opponent for player. Most life loss in my cards unless you target yourself with burn or a very limited number of other effects is just lose or pay life so you won't be impulse drawing your own stuff very often at all. Impulse drawing from an opponent is a way to get the pirate theft stuff on brand and in color, but like I said, playing your opponents deck poorly isn't all too appealing in most cases. With this in mind, being able to hold onto it as a "second hand" of sorts was a way to help make that slightly more palatable and help the card feel more legendary as well. Your shit is his by right of conquest and on the high seas might is right, etc. Still, this bastard's kicking my ass.
For the pay life to damage and get treasure, keep in mind that mana sticks around so you're paying life for a rather substantial ramp which might actually be too much.

For my heart, sadly nothing I can do other than take my new prescription since I was already pretty active and eating well nor was I under/over weight. Sometimes biology is just a cunt. Thanks for the concern though. I bring it up to remind people to get their blood pressure checked. It can happen to anyone and it's called the silent killer for a reason. Stay good guys.

>>85460599
>>85460608
I'll think on those, thanks for the suggestions! For the GW legend, do you think you'd need the vehicle power reminder text on this one? I think I like this version quite a bit. I wasn't big on the bite version of the green legend, but the more I think on it, the more I think it works, though It feels like something is still missing. Keep in mind that means that your capacity for removal is crazy if you can keep mana and draws up.

>>85461076
100%. Originally had it at 2, but with the sac it played/felt bad. Sorcery speed for obvious reasons.
>>
>>85460608
I like this new version. All of its abilities connects well.
>>
>>85477631
Hmm, thought there was lot of self-damage stuff going on with your cards. I know you had some, guess I just misremembered how much you had going on. Hopefully we'll all be done with our cards soon enough. Hmm, though we still have to figure something out for colorless. Hope to become more active with the set soon, so maybe I'll take a crack at the colorless cards. Or maybe we can divide the colorless cards up amongst ourselves.

Usually fairly healthy myself. Blood pressure and heart rate have not been an issue for me. High cholesterol is a recurring problem though, so I also try to work out more often than not.
>>
>>85479020
Metrics wise I have:
4 cards you can use to target yourself to deal damage to yourself.
4 cards where you lose life (includes 1 instance of layover from above)
3 cards where you can pay life for an effect.
So effectively 7 cards that inherently cause you to lose some life or allow you to pay life. Note this doesn't include any instances of Bloodfin or the two multicolor commons I have that are still in flux.

I did have some cards that damaged you in the past, but I switched a lot of that over to pay or lose to help certain ones feel more black while others received poor feedback and where thus scrapped. Dealing damage to yourself did used to be in the wheelhouse, but was removed which is why some of those most recent Bloodfin pitches allow him to do that or simply look for damage you're dealing in general. Violence is the supreme authority after all. Life, creature durability, and resource management are intentional issues the faction has to help balance out treasure ramp and damage output as well as encourage color splashing with black or white.

>Colorless
A lot of colorless leads cards seemed near completion, but reviewing them all as a collective and divvying out any missing slots or doing any reworking might not be bad if he doesn't show up and no one else wants to take point. I've been thinking of just doing it myself, but I don't think that would go over well with how my stuff is usually received.

Looking forward to people getting back into the collab more often and good to hear you're keeping an eye on your health.
>>
I like the old Licids so I tried to make a card that enables an EDH strategy with them, but I'm not married to the payoff quite yet... Taking suggestions. I wanted to stay away from lord effects and search effects.
The oracle wording for the old Licids is weird. Apparently you can't respond to the "end this effect" part.
>>
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>>85477631
>For the GW legend, do you think you'd need the vehicle power reminder text on this one?
I think that since it's a mythic, the fact that Vehicles have power while off the battlefield could be left off there at least, although I should potentially go back and revise some common and uncommon cards with the clarifying text there.

>I wasn't big on the bite version of the green legend, but the more I think on it, the more I think it works, though It feels like something is still missing. Keep in mind that means that your capacity for removal is crazy if you can keep mana and draws up.
I was considering adding on Trample, mostly because the current Bite ability already takes up a lot of space on the card.
You are right that it could be rather dangerous though, since the second Rare Vote card along with one of my Uncommon creatures each have ways to draw off of playing 4+ power cards. I'll go ahead and post the uncommons since I think they have a lot of the potential power 4+ synergy there with NG1, NM4, as well as some of the big creatures available there.
There is also NG9 as a fairly cheap ship, so that could be a danger. Going over most of my creatures though, any with 4 power are 5+ cmc, which would mean paying 7 for them to Bite something via the legend, although with some ramp and cost reduction that might not be too big of a hurdle.

Of course, the monoG legend himself doesn't really have any innate protection, and neither does NG1 or the Rare Vote card, so if you manage to keep them on the board your opponent is in a bad position regardless. That said, I may try and do some tests to see how oppressive it feels in actual play.
I could see lowering his own power so he has less synergy with the power 4+ theme, or upping the cost of the ability while perhaps reducing his own cost both being potential answers there.

>>85477933
Glad to hear this is working out better. I think the tap ability is much more appealing without the cost.
>>
>>85479813
I also just noticed this pic is outdated in terms of some of the cards, although nothing critical to the matter of the monoG legend. I do have the proper versions saved in MSE though, and I'll get another image stitched together before I post them again in the future.
>>
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>>85460088
Here's what I came up with. It originally discarded instead of exiled but that didn't feel costly enough. It's probably still way too good, but if you plan to do anything with it turn 1 you can't actually go that hard
>play swamp
>cast this
>dump hand except card you want to play; get at most 4 mana
>cast that

>>85477549
Hmm. Might be good. The fact that you can sac a tapped land helps lots.
>>
>>85480648
I think the fact it exiles is rather necessary, since otherwise there's probably something you could do with the cards in the graveyard, especially with 4 Black mana.
I'm not sure what the best play for 4 Black mana would be though. There's some beefy creatures you could get, although it's a matter of whether you can win the game with just one creature and no cards in hand before your opponent draws removal.
There's also some planeswalkers, although I'm not sure those would be enough to put you in a good position. Getting a 4 drop on turn 1 sounds like a lot, but giving up your entire hand for it is a lot to ask, which makes me feel like it would manage to be fair.
>>
Three months to the day for Halloween.
Thinking about making a micro halloween collection.
>>
>>85479813
trample would encourage him to attack on his own moreso than it would to crew and his patrol on bite mode is basically just there because. You have a few creatures of power 4+ there, but the bite version doesn't state 4 or greater, just any creature or vehicle you cast.

>>85480648
>>85477549
I like these, but instant speed rituals are very dangerous.

>>85468772
Still really like this one.

>>85479454
This feels kind of clunky, but I guess all the other Licids did too.
>>
>>85481931
I hope there's another Moxtober this year. I also hope I remember to participate. Last year's was fun. Plus it's a nice way to get some creative juices flowing.
>>
>>85479454
Gotta say, I think WotC creating Reconfigure killed any interest I would've had in Licids. It's just so much more elegant. Plus you don't have to spend mana just to save the card if the creature it's attached to is about to get popped.
>>
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>>85482036
Yeah, I bring up power 4+ in relation to him specifically because of pic related as well as NG1 here >>85479813 because those cards make it easier to continuously find fuel for his ability. Trying to rely on smaller creatures would still allow you to bolt things, but it wouldn't combo with the card draw in the same way.
The ping is also obviously less dangerous if you're using smaller creatures, though given this is a Vehicle-heavy set and a lot of cards are weighted towards power over toughness, it is possibly the case where pinging something for 1 or 2 might be more impactful than it seems at a glance.

I was also going to say that Patrol was on him due to the demands of the set skeleton, although looking at it again I don't think the rare instance of the keyword actually has to be on the legend. It would mean potentially reworking another Rare, although pic related does technically mean I've got an extra instance of it regardless.
I did feel that trample alongside Patrol might encourage someone to crew with him, and then attack with him alongside the Vehicle, as hopefully they'd have enough other creatures to crew other things. But I think the fact that he has 3 toughness and a valuable ability might already make people wary about attacking with him ever. Trample I think at least encourages swinging with him on occasion.

Thus far RG3i is one of the more popular iterations I've had of him that wasn't extremely Vehicle-focused though, and despite this being a Vehicle-centric set, I don't think the mono-Green legend of all cards should boil down to being an artifact lord.
>>
>>85482283
NTA, but I'll splitball an effect for the mG legend that benefits off power 4 or greater spells.
>[cost], T: When you next cast a creature or Vehicle spell this turn, ~ deals damage equal to that spell's power to up to one target creature. If that spell's power is 4 or greater, untap ~.
Obv makes more sense on a version that doesn't have Patrol.

>Stranded Survivor
Still really like that card.
>>
>>85482036
Dire Ritual is sorcery speed, bruv.

>>85481931
Theme shit is always fun.

>>85482283
Nice package.
>>
>>85482774
Well, for starters, I'm fine if this guy only slightly encourages the power 4+ theme by caring about power, rather that calling it out directly.
That aside, I also wasn't too concerned with him enabling multiple spells per turn, since I figure a player would need a lot of mana in order to be spending an extra 2 on casting multiple creatures in a turn.
Changing the design to focus more on tapping as the cost and untapping as the benefit for casting big creatures in many ways starts to lean more into UG's theme for the set of Surge.

That said, I have to thank you very much for this reply, because I just remembered that the mono-Blue rare legend is a 7/7 for 2 cmc that bounces itself unless you play the much higher surge cost.
That makes this design a lot more dangerous, where you can potentially end up continuously having a giant sea monster wrecking any threat your opponent plays for 4 mana. It's a bit less of a concern with the cards that only check if something is 4+, or pic related where actually casting the card isn't a factor.

The more I look at it, the more the 4+ power subtheme seems to apply more to UG rather than GW. NM4 here >>85479813 reduces the cost, but NG1 and NG2 care about it much more directly, and all the power 4+ cards I have are either mono-G or Vehicles. Granted, I'm not sure how many power 4+ cards the Blue lead has, although the Blue legend alone from what I remember of it works extremely well with some of these effects.
>>
>>85483627
>I'm not sure how many power 4+ cards the Blue lead has
2 Vehicles
3 GU creatures
2 monoU creatures
>>
>>85484104
And for his other color pair white I'm not sure since I don't think he's posted his revised card list or shown up in a bit, but it's white, so probably not many.

>>85482283
>>85483627
Not bad points and it makes him combo rather well with the mythic, effectively giving you the possibility of crew 6 for a blocker which I don't think any vehicles exist with that kind of cost.

I thought the 4+ was intended to synergies with UG, but it does look like he's not making a massive deal of use of it. Probably for the best since bulky things should be rare for blue imo.
>>
>>85483627
Another idea, to cut down on the abuse of of cheap, high-power spells, would be to have the legend deal damage equal to his own power, but he can gain counters if you cast a creature or Vehicle spell with power greater rhan his own. Still encourages playing high-power spells, but less broken with spells that have hogh power and low cost.
>>
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>>85484104
That's a decently healthy amount then.
Going through my totals it's
3 Vehicles
7 monoG creatures (including the legend)
1 WG creature
Which I think is a combined total of 18, which isn't bad considering Khans of Tarkir has 21 cards within URG that are power 4+ in the first set, and that has Ferocious as a proper Ability word.

>>85485040
I did have pic related with crew 5 for the WG factions flagship of sorts, although it's the sort of thing that's intended to play a lot more into token strategies, and otherwise serves as a mana rock.
>I thought the 4+ was intended to synergies with UG, but it does look like he's not making a massive deal of use of it.
My thinking with it was mostly that it was a very monoG way to offer support towards both Vehicles and large creatures, but the flavor of my faction is mostly Elves and Vehicles with the occasional large monster, while the flavor of the UG faction was a lot more about native wildlife, so a lot of the power 4+ cards I ended up with were sea monsters or themed in that way.
I wasn't exactly trying to push for some big power 4+ matters strategy in the color pair, but moreso some of the cards that I made to fit the UG faction are 4+ power because I knew U wouldn't have as much access to them on its own.

>>85485620
I will say that it is primarily the legend that strikes me as a concern since it specifically and automatically bounces itself, which means once you draw both cards you've got a consistent 7 damage every turn, or even multiple times within the same turn if you've got 8 mana available.
Another reason why it's nagging at me is that the two legends are supposed to be from different factions, so it feels a bit odd for them to combo so well together, and it feels bad if someone who drafts both of them would be actively discouraged from actually casting the monoU legend as a proper creature and giving up the repeatable removal. Something about it all just feels off to me.
>>
>>85486862
Well, I can see the concern. You don't want the two legends to be joined at the hip. And even though they're from two different factions, there is a faction that contains both their colors. So it wouldn't be too difficult to put them into the same deck, especially since your legend could just be splashed into a GU deck.

Seems to me like the cast trigger is the biggest problem here. Which is necessary to get a Fight/bite effect to work with Vehicles. So I think it might be best to go in a different direction with the legend if you want to downplay the GU synergy.

>RG5
I think I said this before, but you don't have to say "As long as ~ is a creature" on the Vehicle side. May have also said this before, but I feel like the P/T of the sides should be reversed. Give the Vehicle 7 toughness and the creature 7 power. I feel like the high toughness works much better for the Vehicle, especially since it has Reach. And maybe change the creature's trigger to just attack, so it would encourage attacking with its 7 power. Also not a huge fan of how dissimilar the mana abilities are now, but I can live with it.
>>
>>85486976
>I think I said this before, but you don't have to say "As long as ~ is a creature" on the Vehicle side.
I think I updated that in the MSE but hadn't exported the image to my folder from last time. Consider that done.
As far as the P/T goes, the reasoning I was given from others was that the front face should have the static power so that it's able to trigger the power 4+ effects consistently while it's off the field. Although I suppose if I reversed them, while lacking the clause about needing to be a creature, then it would qualify as long as you had 4+ creatures, which honestly would play into the factions themes of going-wide a bit more. Of course, then that raises the question of if it still warrants Crew 5, but that's a different matter.
As for the back face, I'm open for suggestions on how to tweak it. Originally the opposite side didn't have a mana ability until it was suggested to make them more proper mirrors of eachother.

>Seems to me like the cast trigger is the biggest problem here. Which is necessary to get a Fight/bite effect to work with Vehicles. So I think it might be best to go in a different direction with the legend if you want to downplay the GU synergy.
Yeah. There are technically other ways to get a Fight/Bite to work here, but even the other methods I've come up with are usually at instant speed which retains the issue.
In a lot of ways it feels like some of the previous versions with 'must be blocked' or some sort of Provoke-style would be the safest way to have him force a 'fight', since then it needs to be something you can already be attacking with.
>>
>>85487169
>As far as the P/T goes, the reasoning I was given from others was that the front face should have the static power so that it's able to trigger the power 4+ effects consistently while it's off the field.
I feel like that makes more sense for the creature side though, since it's G. Why put the very G mechanic onto the colorless side?

>Although I suppose if I reversed them, while lacking the clause about needing to be a creature, then it would qualify as long as you had 4+ creatures, which honestly would play into the factions themes of going-wide a bit more.
Should be exactly how that works. See Dodgy Jalopy.

>Of course, then that raises the question of if it still warrants Crew 5, but that's a different matter.
Yeah, lowering the Crew cost in that case makes sense.

>As for the back face, I'm open for suggestions on how to tweak it. Originally the opposite side didn't have a mana ability until it was suggested to make them more proper mirrors of eachother.
As I said, I can live with them being dissimilar from each other. Guess you could do something like Grand Warlord Radha, but that's probably pushing it considering the cost of your card as it is now.

Lure direction is probably a good one to go in. And maybe give it a way to gain Indestructible temporarily. I feel like making it very durable would be a good way to evoke a bite effect.
>>
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I'm making a set based on animals and nature.
I'm just creating them and giving existing and new keywords/abilities for now. Once I've created enough, I'll go through and balance.
But I am looking for critique regardless and ideas or suggestions for anything.
>>
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>>85487665
>>
>>85487665
>>85487679
Upon reading, I should probably make it so if there's a named creature for the symbiosis it doesn't seek the counter part, thinking on it.
Struggling to get the effect I want within the text allowance.
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>>85487665
>>85487679
Your search mechanic basically already exists. Also, drop symbiotic and just reference creature types.
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>>85487679
Parasitic, needs an alt condition like lesson/learn
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>>85487725
Ah, yeah. of course. Forgot Partner got a specific version.

And yeah, the creature type is one of the things on my notes for it so far. I have a few symbiosis cards so altering them all isn't worth the effort at the moment. Thanks for the feedback!
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>>85487750
I mean, I get what you're going for, I just don't think symbiosis as a mechanic is very good. Better to have more general effects so they can work with more creatures than just the other specific creature, and thus be more useful when using them in a deck.
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>>85487633
>I feel like that makes more sense for the creature side though, since it's G. Why put the very G mechanic onto the colorless side?
The layout for the set is MDFCs with Vehicles on the front and creatures on the back, and a card like >>85483627 can't look at the back of the card. But it does still work out if the power scales off the battlefield.

>Lure direction is probably a good one to go in. And maybe give it a way to gain Indestructible temporarily. I feel like making it very durable would be a good way to evoke a bite effect.
I'll try and experiment with that a little to see if I can get something that works with that sort of idea.

>>85487665
>>85487679
I'm not sure the wording quite works out here. Ignoring the fact that "Symbiosis with" is basically a worse "Partner with", there's the fact that "Sacrifice target symbiotic creature" is an extremely weird wording.
If you're going to tie together a pair of cards that closely, it'd probably be better to just have one create tokens of the other. Like a spider that makes 1/1 frog tokens and has protection from insects as long as you control a frog.
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>>85487783
>The layout for the set is MDFCs with Vehicles on the front and creatures on the back, and a card like >>85483627 can't look at the back of the card. But it does still work out if the power scales off the battlefield.
Fairpoint.
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>>85487732
I hadn't considered Parasitic, though it's a great idea. Not something I've made before. Thanks!
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>>85487783
>I'm not sure the wording quite works out here. Ignoring the fact that "Symbiosis with" is basically a worse "Partner with", there's the fact that "Sacrifice target symbiotic creature" is an extremely weird wording.
If you're going to tie together a pair of cards that closely, it'd probably be better to just have one create tokens of the other. Like a spider that makes 1/1 frog tokens and has protection from insects as long as you control a frog.

Yeah you're right there. I think i got too focused on making a new mechanic when i can translate it or re-use existing ones. Thanks anons, this has helped for sure with these cards. I felt something was janky with it but couldn't think.

Ignore the 3rd stage of the saga's wording. I hadn't fullyread and referenced the kamigawa ND ones yet.
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>>85487665
>>85487679
To prevent the mechanic being too parasitic, you could generalize it to "Symbiosis with Frog" and "Symbiosis with Spider" and search for creature type.
>>
For the bite, why not just damage equal to the legends power rather than the power of what's hitting the field?
Though it does make throwing in smaller creatures for chip more deadly. Another approach would be to have him also have to tap in addition to the cost which would play into his patrol as well and put a harder cap to breach on potential abuse.
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>>85488325
Decided to try another round of variants and versions.
RG3o is a continued iteration on the Bite design, though using the legend's power instead as suggested, along with making it a tap ability.
RG3p is an attempt to go for a lure effect alongside indestructible while still retaining some of the benefits of playing other creature/vehicle spells. RG3q is a more simplified version of that overall idea
RG3r brings in some token aspects again while expanding the indestructibility to be shared instead.
And RG3s basically just works out as a card similar to Craterhoof Behemoth where you play it and use your board to try and swing for game, although far less explosive since it just lets you avoid small creatures and use indestructible to prevent losing anything.
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>>85487836
They don't mean parasitic like that.
https://mtgrocks.com/magic-the-gathering-head-designer-explains-what-is-and-isnt-a-parasitic-mechanic/
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>>85488936
I like O is my favorite here by a wide margin. The wording seems a bit odd though. It's a shame you have to say it's instead of his which would help clarify things.
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>>85489469
I was concerned about the wording there, since it's very easy to read it as 'equal to the power of the spell you just cast'. I feel like I'd need to rearrange the wording, but at a certain point the trigger of casting a creature/vehicle is mattering less and less here.

>>85490790
I get what you're going for here, but the tap ability to ping here doesn't really work out to feeling like a Red effect since it basically functions as creature destruction.
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bamp
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>>85489469
>>85491313
I think you can use LEGENDNAME here and replace the "its" with that so the confusion is abated.
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>>85491313
>>85489469
What >>85494825 said. Just use the name of the card to reference itself again. It's a bit clunky but it's 100% clear what it's referring to.
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bump
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>>85494825
>>85495083
Went for a revised version of the wording. I also came up with RG3t which is similar, although only does a general check for if you cast a creature/Vehicle that turn, since at this stage the card doesn't really care about the size of what you're playing.
I also decided to make a simpler ETB variant of the card which I thought could work out as more of an inverse where you play him after you've already built up a board, since that might avoid some of the concerns about him being too repeatable in terms of removal. More of a focus on immediate value rather than long-term.
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>>85500000
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>>85500204
>in minecraft
Wow, people actually say this?
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>>85498677
I dunno that t needs the "up to" rider; if you're worried about stack shenanigans, just make it "an opponent controls" instead. No worries about having to target your own stuff then. I do kinda like u though; green having a built board is to be expected, but it is kind of a bad feel if you somehow don't; he isn't going to help you bounce back if you're doing poorly.
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>>85500727
Noted on the wording for T.
As for U, I do think it still has some use even if you cast him when your board is empty, since he's still a solid body that gets to deal 4 damage to something as an ETB. It's just that he needs you to at least have a token or something around if you need to deal with something with more than 5 toughness.
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>>85498677
>U
>When you do, the tapped creature deals damage equal to its power to another target creature.
I think. Basing this wording off Nihiloor.
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>Send 1 "Red-Eyes" monster from your hand or Deck to the GY then target 1 Face-Up monster your opponent controls; Equip this card to it. Take control of the equipped monster, but it cannot attack and its effects are negated. During your Main Phase: You can Fusion Summon 1 DARK Dragon Fusion Monster by banishing Fusion Materials listed on it from your field or GY, including the equipped monster. If Summoning a Fusion Monster that lists a "Red-Eyes" monster as material this way, you can substitue the equipped monster for 1 Fusion Material. You can only use this effect of "Curse of the Red-Eyes" once per turn. You can only activate 1 "Curse of the Red-Eyes" per turn.

tl;dr: Pitch a Red-Eyes monster from your hand or deck to gain control of an opponent's monster and equip it with the trap. It can't attack and loses its effects. Your turn, Miracle Fusion into a Dark Dragon by using the equipped monster as material, and use it as a fusion substitute if you summon a Red-Eyes-related Fusion.
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>>85500973
>>85498677
I like O followed by U. T being only sorcery speed prevents it from functioning in unison with your mythic. U is good utility, but it fails to meet my personal legend "smell test" for lack of better phrase.
To me legendary things should do something big or potent or at least very efficiently to help live up to the status of being legendary and only having one on the field. Be that a flashy effect like Phage or from doing something in a colors pie, but that it doesn't get to do very much. A legend that only has an enter or leave effect just feels like it could and should be a normal creature while repeatable effects have the proper legendary punch. Just my two cents.
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>>85502967
Noted. I feel like there might be a way to simplify the wording there.

>>85503754
That's a fair point. I think part of why I'm having trouble of it is that while a legend being able to repeatedly gain value helps to justify its status, having a very repeatable source of removal and just slamming your opponent's board for 4 damage turn after turn feels like it could be oppressive to deal with.
These sorts of repeatable Fight effects are already a rarity in Green as is, so doing a repeatable Bite feels like dangerous design space, since there isn't even the same risk with an opponent suddenly pumping their creature in order to win the Fight.
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Dug up this card I made a long time ago. I'm quite proud of this design.
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>>85504172
Tapping three creatures for 4 life and a couple +1/+1 counters is a pretty sweet deal.

I also couldn't resist the urge to slap together pic related.
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>>85504147
It can be, but remember, he also fails the bolt test and doesn't have haste so he's nor providing any instantaneous value while also being 5 cost and relying on you hard casting too. Do some playtesting with it or possibly up the cost to 2G, GG, or make it a once per turn. In regards to the other anons wording comments, a simply may helps him from popping caps in his own team.
>>
On the subject of legends before I forget my own; open to suggestions for the RB mythic at this point I suppose.
I seem to be better at giving feedback than making things especially as of late.
>>85460416
>>85460525
>>85477631
>>85479020
>>85479293


>>85504580
>>85504172
I feel limited run mechanics like conspire, bolster, and connive still need reminder text.

>>85490790
>>85491313
Changing the red to black for reasons birthright mentioned would be what I'd recommend. Usually this sort of thing would be a hell of a red flag, but the weak body and crazy high cost to pull off the gimmick probably makes this ok.
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>>85504945
You raise some fair points. Perhaps part of the reason I've been wary about the design is because in some ways I am worried about him getting bolted and never actually getting to do anything. But just for example as it stands Vaerin doesn't have any problems blasting away the Red lead's 5/4 mythic, assuming the RB player doesn't have a bolt kill spell ready for him which is fairly likely. He just feels like he might be a massive glass cannon at this point.
I think at this point some testing is the only thing that's going to get rid of my worries about all this.

>>85505098
I think what I'd say regarding the mythic, is that I do think the versions you had of the mythic that exiled your opponents cards and made treasure in order to play them worked out rather well. Pirates steal things, and while your opponent might not have cards that work great with your strategy, it is still effectively more mana and cards to work with one what is a sizable body.

In terms of the previous designs, I would say MM01e seems like the safest bet, although that's mostly because getting treasures equal to the damage dealt off of a Fireball-style effect seems nutty, even if you're paying life for each one. That basically turns any given burn spell into a free Channel.
If it were specifically combat damage, I think that alone would be much more reasonable, although in an aggressive deck it is a bit questionable how much treasure you'd squeeze out of an opponent before they just die. Although I suppose that applies to all the iterations that make treasure based on hitting face.
Maybe the answer is to have him make a treasure whenever a creature dies to play into the sacrifice theme as well as encourage killing an opponent's board? It's basic, but it could work. That'd also probably still leave enough space for another effect. I'm mostly spitballing here, since obviously I'm having some Legendary troubles myself.
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>>85504945
>>85505714
So after a bit of testing, the thing that struck me was that he really feels like he discourages playing large creatures. Because the power of the creature played doesn't matter at all, 1-3 cmc creatures easily become easy kill spells once you hit 5 mana, and cheap mana dorks are obviously very good in that respect, since they help get you to 5 mana faster and still serve a purpose even if you draw them in the late game.

Patrol and Trample were also surprisingly relevant, as it allowed him to blast away an opponent's biggest creature, and any small creatures couldn't afford to chump block him. This was against a WR limited deck from an Ixalan draft I did, so it was a decent mix of big and small dinosaurs, and the removal spells in there were enough to get rid of him, but he really dominates the flow of the game until he dies. Pic related would also be a factor in his survivability.
I think my worry is that the better way to play him would probably be to grab a copy of Undertide Ensign from among Black's commons so that in every situation you can pay 1B and discard to escape it and 1G from the legend to always have 4 damage available. And of course the potential with the monoU legend still exists.
I am less concerned about the danger of a combo with the cards that draw off of 4+ power, since I think loading a deck with that many big creatures would prevent you from establishing enough of a defense to really get the ball rolling.

The fact that he doesn't care about tokens is also a bit frustrating since that's one of the themes of WG as a faction. A spell that only makes tokens doesn't do anything for him, and a creature that makes a token as an ETB comes at the expense of a potentially cheaper creature that would be easier to cast.
Honestly it doesn't feel like a bad card, but it's a card that definitely feels a lot more Red than Green. Like some weird mix of Glorybringer and Terror of the Peaks.
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Tried to create some token art using Midjourney wuth prompt to imitate certain Magic artists.
Can you recognize any?
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>>85506762
Personally I never quite liked bite being so prominent in green for the same reason I never liked black cards pinging. It just feels way too red. Fight feels more green, but is obviously worse and green did need some way to deal with problems, and bite was what wotc chose. In regards to this card, maybe try putting the power 4+ check back on it and they should reign him in, though it'll still feel red because dealing damage is an inherently red thing despite what wotc and the pie say.
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>>85507853
At this point I'm just waiting for a public version of parti.
https://parti.research.google/
It seems to be the only one that can both produce art that isn't obviously AI, and accept a long and detailed description.
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>>85507853
I'd be lying to you if I said I was familiar with a lot of their current artist catalog.

>>85509118
>>85506762
Reread again and beside that feedback that sounds like a midway point between cool and frustrating. The mass repeatable nature certainly doesn't seem grewn as I said though imo. That 4+ power check may have to be a requirement if you want to pursue it, but it's kind of sounding like another approach may sadly be needed. As for my mythic, I suppose dont stress about it too much since I'm kind of mentally penning the two as bitter rivals or enemies. Classic navy vs pirate and all that.

>>85505714
I did have a version that was similar to the suggestion that I discarded once I realized the mechanic was akin to pitiless plunderer who was rather degenerate, though a normal common creature. A only saw the light of day because I realized after posting it was a bit too close to modern raping monkey. I'll try and fiddle with that again as a bases at least for treasure generation. You also brought up another problem I had with older iterations where the body hits and steal meant that the steal was mostly irrelevant since he'd be stripping off 1/4th starting every time he punches face which is why I explored other routes to get the impulse.
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>>85507853
I feel like I've seen all of these before. I'm sure I could track down the artists you gave to the AI if I wanted to invest the time, but I just don't.
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>>85509118
>>85510409
I do think Bite works in Green, although the distinction that stands out here compared to Fight is that while a card like Thorn Mammoth that repeatedly fights is risking something each time it does so, this feels more like pure burn.
The deck I was testing against certainly had some combat tricks, and if if this guy was fighting things it'd be a lot less reliable to take out big creatures with him.
Bite might be the sort of thing that only really works well on Instants/Sorceries so that the lack of risk towards your creature is offset by being a one-time thing.

A power 4+ check probably would have helped to make him much less reliable about blasting an opponent's creatures, but in a way that I think would have also just ended up make the card feel like a french vanilla most of the time. Bigger creatures means needing more mana in order to activate the ability, and in some cases might just discourage you from playing your other big creatures in case your opponent plays a threat that you need to save the removal for.

>I did have a version that was similar to the suggestion that I discarded once I realized the mechanic was akin to pitiless plunderer who was rather degenerate
That's fair. I think Life Insurance would be the example to look to where it mixes Pitiless Plunderer with Revel in Riches, and a high cmc mythic is certainly a better candidate for such an effect compared to an uncommon having a similar effect. It is certainly potentially dangerous though.
"Whenever ~ or a Vehicle you control attacks, create a treasure token." as something a bit safer, as then you are risking your own board and are limited in how many treasures you can grab that way each turn. You could even specifically do 'becomes blocked' for it to be a bit more restrictive and possibly a bit more flavorful as well.
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>>85507853
I will say this seems like some of the better use of the software. It has a lot of trouble with faces, although for something like the demon, or elemental that isn't really an issue.
I'd imagine this would be great at making Phyrexian artwork.
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Took some of the recent Bloodfin feedback into account and here we go:

>C
Broader access to Treasure generation at the cost of life and can build a second hand as you kill your own resources. A sort of support card that can still pack a punch.

>E2
A popular pick from the last batch. Yields both treasure and card advantage, but only on face hit and with few ways to damage yourself outside burning, it'll mostly be opponents cards. Not sure if Menace, haste is too potent here since it's 1/4th starting life per swing so the theft won't be as prominent.

>I
Treasure and taking opponents things are still the focus, but it's far more centered around control elements killing things off to get the effects while mounted on a decent body for beats.

>J
A lean into combat and aggression, but lacking speed. Offers some survivability by playing into the sets Vehicle theme letting him be safer on approach. Impulse stealing switch to sacrifice and draw. Possibly leans too far black.

>K
Hyper aggression with control elements. This is either a comeback card or a win more card. He's on a rampage and killing you with his own cargo, no expense spared.

>L
Dependable Treasure generation and mild impulse draw you can use on yourself or your opponent. Gives you some time to play the impulse, but still limited. Exiling here instead of sacrifice to make it look cleaner and prevent shenanigans.

>M
Heftier steal, but a more limited window. Control focused more than beats with the steal having a narrow window. Expensive activated to reload treasure and better control the board, though the impulse steal rate may give an impression that mill is viable in RB. EDH bait in hindsight.

>N
Suicide speed run with the rate of life loss. Forces an opponent to make a choice when he swings in for an attack similar to J, but much less safe. Offers value when standing still too.

>O
Mild inspiration from one of my favorites, Braids. Similar to I. Layout is ugly as sin.

Begin the bully anew.
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>>85516806
I'm just going to assume that cost and P/T are subject to change and you'll finalize them once you have the ability figured out.

>C
The last ability is so weird. I don't like how easy it is to trigger, but I also feel like the cost attached to it is too high.

>E2
Looks good. Think I'd cut one of the keywords though.

>I
Not bad, just... doesn't feel like a great fit.

>J
The -1/-1 effect feels odd. Edict effect seems fun, but drawing off combat damage feels weird for BR.

>K
...What? This feels so weird compared to the others so far. Really hate the last ability. Just can't get onboard with sacrifice lands.

>L
Eh, just not feeling it.

>M
OK, I think I just not a huge fan of these "When something goes into the graveyard" abilities. I don't know what it is exactly, considering I have one on my mB legend. Maybe I just expect more aggression out of BR. Also not a fan of the last ability.

>N
I'd make the first trigger a choice so you don't die just because someone wiped the board.

>O
OK, I've realized that my inability to identify with suicide strats is coming back again and I hate constantly paying/losing life like this, where you just have no control over it.

If I had to call it now, I'd say keep the first four and ditch the rest. The other five just don't really click with me at all. And I definitely like the more proactive designs. C is a good example of this. He rewards you for burning and saccing. Simple, to the point, and something you can design around. Though I think E2 is my overall favorite. I I'm a little less hot about, since it's a little less proactive. J seems like it could be interesting if the payoff were changed a little.

And even if you don't go with any of my suggestions, I think you should really start cutting down on the number of variants this guy has.

Also let me know if you want me to go into more detail. Feedback given late at night after having come home from work probably isn't the best.
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>>85498677
Suggestions:
>Whenever a creature you control attacks, if its power is 4 or greater, it gains indestructible until end of turn. You may have that creature fight target creature defending player controls.
Power 4+ and Fight focus. Indestructible helps your creatures survive Fight.

>Whenever a creature you control becomes blocked by a creature, it gets +N/+N and gains trample until end of turn.
N is some value you decide. Pair with a Lure effect. Have some big creature roll over opponent's creatures.
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>>85516806
MM01k feels interesting, although the land sac feels like it might be a bit out of place. It feels like it could work well to help close out the game by letting you spend life and stockpiled treasures to crack a board.
I also think I like MM01c's second ability. Since saccing treasures is going to be a frequent option, that lets you turn land draws in the late game into more fuel. I think letting you exile the top of either library is a good call, since it lets you pull off either impulse draw or the theft. Although hitting your own library is probably usually the better call there. Perhaps if it exiled a card from each one? Not sure there.
I'm still not sold on the first effect, although that might just be me. Any source dealing damage means all burn spells, any hitting face, and also any instances of attacking/blocking.

>>85517610
I feel like letting every power 4+ creature fight whenever it attacks is very strong. That easily lets you clear out any chump-blockers and cut down on an opponent's options before any actual blocking even occurs. And indestructible just takes that even further.

Pic related is my attempt at something with the latter.
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>>85517830
Not a bad card and I guess the lord effect works for his title, but it's just not as cool as that symbiosis you had going on with your mythic.
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>>85517830
>mG legend
Tap triggers for creatures?
>Whenever a creature you control becomes tapped, it gets +1/+1 and your choice of [keyword] or [keyword] until end of turn.
Synergy with Patrol is obvious.
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>>85522058
Yeah, it's definitely a lot more basic.

>>85522312
I think I had a patrol-lord version earlier, although that was for token generation.
That said, it does give me an idea here for RG3x. One of the earlier versions I had that went over well was one that granted Vehicles deathtouch. Having it be both an ETB and tap trigger could work as a way to offer some synergy with the Mythic, where you could get surprise deathtouch blockers, but otherwise it'd be more naturally usable while attacking.
That said, I'm not sure if there's a good secondary keyword to pair with it, and it might lead to awkward gameplay where rather than blocking with a Vehicle they'll leave it uncrewed until after they declare blockers so that they can tap a crew and grant them deathtouch. I suppose trample/reach might make more sense, but then there's not as much reason to grant both to a creature via patrol.

RG3v is another more basic design I thought of, where he has a smaller baseline body but gets +1/+1 counters based on the number of creatures/vehicles you have, and being able to spend those counters to expand your board further. Main downside here is he doesn't work at all as any sort of comeback card, since if you get boardwiped he's just gonna be a 2/1 for 5 with no real ability, although the only answer there would be to probably start him a bit bigger or give him some more keywords.
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>>85507853
I'm sorry to take up a post to say this, but you fucked up your 2/2 on the green elemental. I hope this (You) suffices.
>>
Pretend cards can mill percentages of libraries. What is the best way to word that?
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>>85523986
V is interesting, but feels very hydra like. Of the two I think I like this one more, but it has the problem of being dead weight if you're not already in a good position as you say and with elves, he can get pretty damn big. The concept is neat, but the method of how he gets those counters is what should be looked at if you pursue this. Also note moderate pace token flooding vs a fatty is just about the same as far as crewing is concerned in most cases and while this allows some go tall to shift to go wide which is again interesting, it's quite a gamble, but offers flexibility against what your enemy is throwing out.

X isn't the most exciting thing ever, but its also very flexible. I'd almost want to suggest deathtouch and trample since deathtouch on him still feels like a natural fit with the art since green doesn't get first strike. Keep in mind your mythic is already defensive focused as well and plays to the raising an armada flavor. Personally I'd really like to see your mythic and rare work in tandem somehow like you had going with bite. Giving him defender would also play well to the art and possibly allow you to overtune in other areas as recompense.

Will respond to the feedback on my cards later tonight when home. Thanks guys!
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>>85524158
>"target player pills X cards, where X is their minimum deck size divided by ten"
Would be the way to do it I think. Yorion already refers to that, although companions are rather weird. I think it would also work better if you're scaling the effect to the standard decksize in the format, so that you don't need to divide things awkwardly if your opponent has a 72 card deck in a 60 card format. In such a case, it would just be 6.
That said, 'divided by' isn't something that shows up on magic cards either, although it is more in line with an effect like Martyr of the Sands that gains you 'three times X life' for instance. I think it's intuitive enough, and it shouldn't require much on the fly calculation if you're using minimum deck size, since you'd go into each game knowing what the number is. The only thing it really does is make a card scale to different formats, where a 4 card mill limited is 6 in constructed and 10 in commander.
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>>85523986
Mostly agree with >>85524321. V just doesn't seem like a great option to me because it's basically just a Hydra.

X seems interesting, but I think the ETB bit overcomplicates it. I get that you want it to work with the other legend, but I think this would be better if it was focused to work more on the offensive. So drop Reach. Maybe use Hexproof? Because then you get some benefit out of the creature when they're tapped but not for attacking. And it could make your Vehicles a form of creature protection, since they can be used as... I guess you could call them "tap enablers".
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>>85524321
>it's quite a gamble, but offers flexibility against what your enemy is throwing out.
Yeah, I figured there was some flexibility there. The concern I had was the situation where you don't have a board established.
I felt like Deathtouch might work for him, as if he already has very high power, then it doesn't really do much for him, but if you're topdeck him in a bad situation, deathtouch might let you make a favorable trade at least.

>I'd almost want to suggest deathtouch and trample
I had considered that, though deathtouch and trample don't exactly have the most intuitive interaction. It is a potentially potent one though.
I do think granting creatures deathtouch as an ETB while the mythic lets you cast things with Flash would be a decent enough combo, since it can turn any creatures in your hand into dangerous blockers, and it feels a bit more Green compared to the repeatable Bite effect. I could certainly see that slowing the game to a crawl though where your opponent is wary to ever attack though.

The more I dwell on it, the more the idea of a unified ETB and Tap trigger feels like it'd work well for the design, though it's a matter of coming up with a suitable effect that works in a variety of situations without being overly strong.
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>>85524528
I actually really like that. I also trimmed up some of the wording and nerfed ETB to cast. Thank you for being unbaised and for your thoughtful input.
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>>85524615
The issues I have with that approach would be that hexproof on-demand does potentially foil all sorts of removal an opponent might have, and it actively discourages using Vehicles proactively rather than saving them in order to protect your creatures. Which in some ways is a fairly WG thing to do, but in a lot of ways the Vehicles were supposed to be substituting for Green's big creatures in some respects.

Of course, going through the list there aren't many other options. Haste would get into the issue of being too Red again even if it works with the ETB idea, and Vigilance doesn't work with it at all. Trample would work, but doesn't pair nicely with deathtouch.
I suppose another angle I could take is to do 'whenever a creature you control becomes tapped, target creature/Vehicle[effect]' where tapping and by extension patrol still plays into the benefit, but the upside doesn't need to tie into the card that's getting tapped.

I think if I wanted to do hexproof though, I'd probably want to make it more static, like giving all of your nonVehicle creatures hexproof as long as you have a Vehicle, like the ship serving as a proper focal point for the forces. Though that also might discourage actually risking the ship by attacking or blocking with it.
Another angle might be to just go for 'Vehicles and attacking creatures you control have deathtouch' where it makes your creatures deadly while swinging in, but only Vehicles get to be dangerous when flashed in as blockers.
>>
>>85517583
>>85517830
>I'm just going to assume that cost and P/T are subject to change and you'll finalize them once you have the ability figured out.
While some are a bit pushed, I designed to try and keep within the same body and cmc simply because the body is hardy, but not overly so and the cmc is color intensive, but not impossible to get especially with treasure assistance. Due to the core most of these have of stealing, anything much further than 5cmc probably starts pushing him into the irrelevant category since it'll be too late game to matter, but then again, treasure. Fuck is it hard to balance at times.

Thank you both for the feedback and if anyone else has any thing to add, please don't be shy.

>C
The second ability allows you to freely cycle through your deck and build up a safe-ish extra hand, however this comes at the expense of shutting off your own rummage capabilities as well as escape costs. It's an ability you'll have to think about when you use it rather than just burst filtering. Allowing you to take a card from your library and one from an opponent would messy up the box, but might still be appealing without overly strong. Two from a target screams ultra mill. Open to suggestions though. Yes I'm aware the first ability can proc on burn, combat, etc. I suppose I could up life loss to 2 since it's so readily available... Anyway this is one of my personal favorites.

>J
The idea with the face hit on J was a sort of other approach at a "theft" concept of sorts; take from an opponent to get a resource. Draw on face hit for the colors is a bit odd I agree. The -1/-1 helps give reds low toughness creatures a little survivability and can symbolize intimidation or a surprise attack. At least that was the intent.

>N
Similar to J,but more hands on. I could change the treasure to may, but the point of such an easy way to generate comes with risk. It's Life Insurance on a legendary stick with no way to recooperate.
>>
>>85528141
>K
Land sac was chosen as a sort of turbo suicide button for big risky plays. Could convert it to the old "pay 1 life and sac an artifact/ other creature" A had if that would be more appealing. Similar to E I'd need to cut a keyword probably.

>E2, I
Filing these for safe choices worse case. Not exciting, but efficient value like A was, but unlike A they're able to start getting value sooner and play into the actual piracy shit much more effectively.

>First 4 only and cut down on variants
Agreed, but wanted a temperature check to be sure since those four and N are my personal tops. Any additional feedback or suggestions on C, E2, I, J, possibly N feel like where I'll refocus.

If anyone has any other questions or comments I'd be more than happy to discuss. Didn't want to bore or textwall too hard.


>>85524634
>The more I dwell on it, the more the idea of a unified ETB and Tap trigger feels like it'd work well for the design, though it's a matter of coming up with a suitable effect that works in a variety of situations without being overly strong.
Good luck with that since I got torn to shreds ass over elbows when I did something that was dies or becomes tapped. Though you have much better luck than I seem to.

>>85527753
>Vehicles and attacking creatures you control have deathtouch
Most people are going to throw chumps in the way, but this makes trading for a kill pretty painful especially in a set high on removal if I'm remembering everyones cards. I do think I like this though.


>>85525021
Weird thing, but interesting. Surprised they haven't done this sort of scaling yet. It's a great fit for mill which can be OP or a crapshoot.
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>>85528141
To chip in regarding CMC and P/T, treasures do make him a bit harder to gauge. An RB deck might still be able to get him out pretty early even if he were 6 cmc as long as they stocked up enough treasure.

>Allowing you to take a card from your library and one from an opponent would messy up the box, but might still be appealing without overly strong.
For clarity, I'm suggesting something along the lines of
>>If you do, exile the top card of each player's library. You may play those cards for as long as they remain exiled.
That's how it works for a card like Etali, Primal Storm, although he functions a bit differently. Obviously that's stronger in a multiplayer format, but it's not exactly crazy or anything.

>>85528216
>Though you have much better luck than I seem to.
Feedback can often be a mixed bag. It is certainly an odd trigger though, but at this point I'm pretty much trying everything.
>Most people are going to throw chumps in the way, but this makes trading for a kill pretty painful
Maybe, but GW does have go-wide aspects to it, so it's not like they can chump block everything. If it applies to Vehicles at all times as well, then it allows a player to use many of their creatures on the attack and any Vehicles on the defense.

I will say that I am still personally a bit drawn to the hydra-esque design of RG3v here >>85523986
I did feel like it did a good job of getting across the goes-wide theme in a way that still makes the legend himself somebody who could tangle with a sea monster and come out on top.
Maybe I should do something more akin to Elder of Laurels where it's an activated ability to get the pump.
>>
Dredging up my old enemy pair mechanics from a thread back in december '21. RW was basically modified before that was a known thing.

RU:
>Recall [cost] (Whenever you discard a card, if this card is in your graveyard, you may pay its Recall cost. If you do, return this card to your hand.)
>Breakthrough [cost] (When you cast this spell for its Breakthrough cost, copy it for each card you've discarded this turn. If it's a creature card, create that many token copies.)

UG:
>Lifespark (Target noncreature permanent you control becomes an X/X blue green Elemental creature in addition to its other types until end of turn where X is equal to the number of permanents of that type you control.)

GB:
>Fertilize (When this permanent is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may return target nonland permanent with mana value less than this card from your graveyard to your hand.)

BW:
>Blood Drenched (Whenever a creature dealt combat damage by this creature would die this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
>>
>>85528373
>>85523986
The hydra thing is more like pentivus than anything else. Maybe use that as a reference point? Would be great with that attacking creatures have deathtouch thing too.

>>85516806
C is impulse rummaging, but it's easy to get. I can't decide if that's cool or shit especially since when it dies you'll lose all the cards too.

Why doesn't j have a mirrored sort of second half like a lot of other versions? Remove the crewed and make it the legend and also vehicles you control? Also the first ability is basically flanking with treasure generation.

Speaking of, if I wanted to do Bushido, but instead make it to where the enemy creature got -#/-#, how would I word that right since bushido is blocks or becomes blocked.
>>
>>85528216
Not gonna lie, I lazily took the idea from Gyruda clones in a sense. I quickly made this card after I saw Eligos the first time on the Evil Dead. It's not terribly creative hahaha.
>>
>>85528814
>>85528814
I'd imagine the hydra comparisons crop up for the fact that the amount of +1/+1 counters he enters with varies. Something like Pentivus will always enter with 5, even if they're otherwise similar in how they can give up counters in order to make creature tokens.

Pic related was a potential variation I was thinking of, where it's gets back some of the fight aspects, though with a more pure combat focus, with the go-wide aspect coming in the form of the pump ability. This lets him point out an enemy and rush at them while potentially becoming some huge 7/6 in the process. Maybe that's a bit too basic though.
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>>85528814
>Speaking of, if I wanted to do Bushido, but instead make it to where the enemy creature got -#/-#, how would I word that right since bushido is blocks or becomes blocked.
I think the strict wording would be "Whenever ~ blocks or becomes blocked, each creature blocking or blocked by it gets -1/-1 until end of turn."
I'd also point to flanking as a halfway version on it, along with more recent creatures like Plague Wight or Hezrou that do some variations on that.
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>>85529313
Targeting specific creatures to block just feels a bit off to me. Not quite sure what it is. Maybe it's too close to direct removal? Besides that, I think it doesn't combo well with Vehicles. If the opponent has some valuable Vehicles that you want to get rid of, you can't do anything to this with them if they have other stuff to block with.
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>>85532002
It's basically akin to Provoke, which in a lot of ways is just the precursor to Fight. There's Luryking Arynx and Maraleaf Rider for more recent examples of the mechanic being used, as well as Rimehorn Aurochs for an even more versatile variant. If anything it's far less close to direct removal than the Bite version I had before, as this more easily falters to combat tricks.

That said, I'd also note that for this set there is a very natural way around it, as if your opponent has a Vehicle they can save their creature by using them to crew, as if they're tapped they'll be unable to block.
Of course, it might also be the case where the ability itself should potentially cost more, given the power he can get to via the second effect.
>If the opponent has some valuable Vehicles that you want to get rid of, you can't do anything to this with them if they have other stuff to block with.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I could change the first ability to be able to target Vehicles as well, but an opponent can simply choose not to crew them if they're worried about losing it.
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>>85460088
I put together a new version of the YGO MSE template I've been posting. At this point, I can't think of any changes or additions to make.
https://files.catbox.moe/3ldkqs.zip

I couldn't figure out how to include icons in the types dropdown. The changelog might be incomplete because I did a lot of small changes over the last few days, and this is written from memory.

>Added a Speed Spell foil, and Turbo Duel and Action Card watermarks
>Fixed Set ID defaults so that it includes both the Set Code and Language code
>Added the Normal property icon (typed with @)
>Added Virus cards (no custom frame)
>Added the Boss card "attributes" and Unknown
>The Link card toggle moves the Set ID and extra edition box now, much like Link monsters
>The extra edition box is disabled on Pendulum monsters
>Made it so Pendulum frame defaults to the correct one for the selected types
>Fixed the ZARC toggle
>Tweaked the Promo name colours and added them to the name colour override defaults, alongside copper
>"Limited Edition" now automatically changes the holo to the gold one
>Removed some unused variables
>Overhauled the rarities by adding a second foil layer for full-card foils. Just about any rarity should be doable now, just pick a base rarity and choose an additional or other overrides to get specific ones.
>>
>>85533834
Very nice! Wish someone with some artistic and code skill would be able to do something similar for the new digimon tcg
>>
Based on a Buddfight (RIP) card.
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>>85534938
Seems like a good boss for Tenyi. Probably Yang Zing too. Maybe Metaphys, but I don't know their Attributes. Wording probably needs to be changed though. The negation is particular seems off, essentially having to go through two activations.
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>>85533834
>I couldn't figure out how to include icons in the types dropdown.
Do you think you could use UTF-8 emojis? Not the best solution, maybe not even worth implementing. But I am curious.
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>>85536365
I can see the point of the game icons, but why emojis? Either way, I doubt that is supported, I've given up on getting @ to work in the name field using replacement symbols.
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supertypes
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>>85538631
I know it's a card type rather than a supertype, but I think Tribal would fit neatly on that list.
Very neat card regardless, although for 6 cmc the applications are a bit limited. Grabbing a basic land late into the game doesn't do much for you, and while you could grab a variety of legendaries and probably some decent snow cards, it's quite a bit of investment.
Of course, it probably works out in EDH where tutoring is more valuable.
>>
Reworked version of C based on some feedback: >>85516806

Others I'm trying to see what if anything I'd change so if anyone else has any extra feedback, hit me with it if you want.

>>85528814
>Remove the crewed and make it the legend and also vehicles you control
I suppose I could do a mirror like that, but it does make the text box a little ugly and unbalanced. If I change the draw to an impulse like the others, it gets too long and I don't think the draw is too terrible of a skew.

>>85538631
Interesting one here and a bomb for edh. I can't remember the last time I saw a world enchant though.
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Show me your OC donut steels
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>>85536337
It's based on Artifact Durendal's wording.
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>>85542123
they all went up in flames a few months back. nothing notable anyway cause i can't even remember what i'd made
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>>85540486
Everyone treats Tribal as a supertype, I don't know why Wizards haven't changed it yet.
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>>85533834
Pretty cool. Thanks for doing god's work, anon.
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>>85542123
Shower thought card
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>>85546329
I like four color cards, and yours has got an interesting idea going for it. There should probably be a clause indicating duration for his third ability, as it is worded currently they just become creatures indefinitely. If that's intended then it should read "...you control that share the same type as Kindai-ka perpetually become creatures..." otherwise it should just be an effect that only lasts for as long as the typing is shared, as nightmarish as that sounds to keep track of. "As long as Kindai-ka shares a type with another noncreature artifact or nonaura noncreature enchantment you control, that permanent is a creature in addition to its other types, has base power and toughness each equal to its mana value, and has ward 3." Means that they go back to being noncreatures when your turn ends which could be good or bad

>
my own four color dude
>>
>>85546443
It is intended to be until end of turn. Some what of restriction to not indefinitely have blockers and causes the player to consider more permanent effects (ie. mycosynclatis, Enchanted Evening) or flash artifacts/enchantments. This also protects from sorcery speed creature removal but so does Ward 3 seeing as an Artifact Enchantment Creature is really easy to remove. I like the idea of restrictions breed creativity.

Chose Ink Treaded cause it was the themes for NEO (W/G Enchantments and U/R Artifacts for) and kinda found the idea fun to have something work with old shrines to also make them creatures. Originally had B in the cost and not R cause I'm a simp for B but felt out place given themes and effect.

Eminence is such a hard ability to balance. If im understanding correctly you cant cast Oreklei from the command zone due to its Eminence so you always bestow it which makes sense to bypass commander tax. Why the face-up exile though? While Yore-Tiller colors are the colors that can exile the most the cards eminence doesnt do much to support it. Arguably G cares the most about P/T greater then 3 as well. Always a fan of bestow tho. Mutate was just a shit bestow
>>
>>85547958
Mycosynth Lattice* Damn google.
>>
>>85547958
That makes sense, I think I drop blue for green in its cost, it'll certainly make building around its Eminence a lot easier
>>
I draft a lot, I listened to Drive to Work, I read the Nuts & Bolts articles, but I still feel completely lost when I open up MSE. I want to make a core set just to get started, but I'm just staring at a design skeleton that may as well be a blank piece of paper. What advice would you guys give new designers?
I'm not trying to make splashy Foegod type cards, I really like cards like Hostile Minotaur and Satyr Wayfinder and Air Elemental, I just don't know what to do with a set.
>>
>>85551920
One piece of advice I could give would be to start small. Making an entire set is a big undertaking, after all.
Building towards a certain purpose, like a custom starter deck, commander deck, or cube can be a good way to more clearly line out how many cards you'll actually need.
Going for a certain theme can also be helpful. That can either be in terms of genre if you want to want to make a bunch of dark fantasy cards, in terms of mechanics if you want to lean towards graveyard matters, just to give some examples.
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>>85542123
Used to be an entire series of /tg/ threads for making OC donut steels. They were called flakes back then, because they were all "special snowflakes."
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>>85552076
I lived and breathed that autism. Enjoy this embarrassing time capsule from four years ago.

Today the broad strokes are generally the same -- he's basically just a projected consciousness with a spark and therefore mostly harmless -- but I narrowed the focus of his character from phasing and exile effects to just exile effects and fleshed out the information about him to far more than could fit in the template I used.
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r8
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>>85553169
>2018
Flaking wasn't really much of a threads thing at that point though, right? Like, I have some flakes about that old, but also some that are definitely older.

That being said, the flake sheets were a lot of fun to fill out. Used to be whole-ass debates about what even made for good flake design. As long as you always remember that ultimately, your flake is as shit as anyone else's.

That being said, it's kinda neat to see a flake sheet after this long.
>>
>>85551920
>>85551983
Surely there's some sort of set skeleton basic guide by now...
>>
>>85553270
I mean, there's the Nuts & Bolts articles about it, and the revisited one is already quite detailed in terms of things like keywords and example effects. >https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/nuts-bolts-13-design-skeleton-revisited-2021-03-22
The article itself describes it as a basic skeleton that they give to newer designers, and anything more detailed beyond that would probably cease to be a skeleton. It's supposed to be a starting point that gets fleshed out beyond the basics of keywords and general effect categories, after all.
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>>85554902
Should work well enough. Thanks.
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>>85557481
>Haste
>GU
No
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>>85557481
>>85559511
I'm assuming the haste is mostly there so as to not lose the functionality of the foods, where if they're always treated as creatures then you wouldn't be able to simply sac them right away to gain life. An answer to that could be to make it a 0 cost activated ability, but that's rather tedious and simply granting haste is the simpler option, even if it feels rather strange in UG. I do think the card itself might be a bit low in terms of CMC, at least when comparing it to other Landfall cards that can easily pump out tokens.

That aside, I do like the flavor of where you've basically got a lobster tank that you can swing with or eat as needed.
>>
>>85559511
The technical overview from R&D last year is
>Haste shows up most often on red creatures. We've moved green into second place for haste. Black is still technically secondary but gets haste less often than green.
Green can have access to haste, but it DOES feel strange to put Haste on a creature with a color combination where
>Haste is only secondary in one color
>Haste isn't in the other color at all

So it's technically okay, but it definitely FEELS wrong. It also stretches the existing design in Green where it animates lands, which is one of the main ways that Green gives Haste.
>>
>>85559956
That's correct.
And haste is a green ability, even more so, giving haste to activated ability (for example, if foods were 0/3 blue Oyster creatures with defender instead) is justified even in monoblue.
>>
>>85560093
Eh, the instances of Haste+Defender in Monoblue are still very few and far between. Bonded Fetch was Future Sight, and it was only recently that they printed that one legendary from New Capenna.
I personally agree that Haste on Blue creatures with tap abilities that can't be used to attack makes sense from a mechanical perspective, although I don't know if the precedent is fully there quite yet.

Not saying it can't be done, just that it's still in a place where it feels strange.
>>
>>85559956
>>85560074
>>85560093
>>85560170
I think it's also valid to ask whether you should, and not just whether you can. I'm sure that R&D talks about this kind of thing all the time when it comes to bends, breaks, and just trying to work out the potential for new ideas.
>>
Thoughts? I know you're not supposed to change rules text, but I'd only be playing this at super casual, friendly tables.
>>
>>85560438
That's ok
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>>85560218
The past 8 years or so of releases should tell you better.
>>
I was thinking on making an archetype based on Buddyfight mechanics, Gauge/Charge and Draw. The monsters would have to be Pendulums, so they can go to the Extra deck and work as Gauge. They'd all have an effect that lets you add them to your Extra when you draw them in your Draw Phase, then draw 1 card.

I was thinking of not letting them be Special Summoned from the Extra and not giving them any Pendulum Effects. They would just serve as cost for other archetype cards.



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