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File: Magic Primer v3.3 (+0).png (2.04 MB, 1400x1659)
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Storm edition!

>To make cards, download MSE for free from here:
http://magicseteditor.boards.net/
>OR
>Mobile users might have an easier time signing up here:
https://mtg.design/

>Stitch cards together with
http://old.photojoiner.net/

>Hi-Res MSE Templates
https://pastebin.com/2AFqrY68

>Mechanics doc (For the making of color pie appropriate cards)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaKCOzyqM48dFdKRXpxTDRJelRGWVZabFhUU0RMcEE

>Color Pie mechanics
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2021-10-18

>Read this before you post cards for the first time, or as a refresher for returning cardmakers
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn1J1Mj-EvxMxca8aSRBDj766rSN8oSQgLMOXs10BUM

>Design articles by Wizards
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR

>Primer: NWO and Redflagging
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/578926-primer-nwo-redflagging

>Q: Can there be a sixth color?
A: http://pastebin.com/kNAgwj7i

>Q: What's the difference between multicolor and hybrid?
A: http://pastebin.com/yBnGki1C

>Q: What is precedence?
A: http://pastebin.com/pGxMLwc7

>Q: How can I proxy my cards for testing?
A: https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM // https://mtgprint.cardtrader.com

>Art sources
http://www.artstation.com/
https://cgsociety.org/
http://fantasygallery.net/
http://grognard.booru.org/
http://fantasy-art-engine.tumblr.com/
https://www.deviantart.com/

>/ccg/ sets
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj

Old thread:
>>84691790
>>
Lads, I have an idea.
An instant that gives first strike to two creatures. But if a creature receives this effect for the second time this turn, it gains double strike. The trick is - how to word it correctly?
>>
>>84903115
Could just check if it already has First Strike. Check Grisly Sigil for an example of something kinda sorta similar working with the copy made by Casualty.
>>
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>>84903115
Something like pic related.
>>
>>84903115
No need to complicate it, just make it modal.

Choose one --
-Up to two target creatures gain first strike until end of turn.
-Target creature gains double strike until end of turn.
>>
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Trying out a few more revisions to get something more coherent. K is focused on the flash/casting aspect in a more straightforward manner. L still uses the activated ability method, though with lifegain as a way to give it more of an upside. M is working off of the idea of having an extra effect for using the ability multiple times, while N is focused even more on that idea where it scales up the number of counters it hands out while also giving more ways to potentially untap her. I'll probably reword that to distribute it among creatures and Vehicles. And O is a dumb idea I think I had floating around somewhere but got reminded of when I was looking up untap ability wordings.

>>84903115
Basically what >>84904129 said. The only way you need to make it really complicated is if you want it to stack with existing instances of first strike like on this card >>84903787
>>
>>84904282
I don't know if you are gonna keep the m version, but I would change the wording to "second time this ability has been activated this turn". It's so it can protect your stuff in case someone uses a removal in response to your first activation.
I'm more inclined towards K, simply because of how straightforward and efficient it is.
>>
>>84904282
L is the best here by a wide margin imo. None of the rest of these don't really do too much for you or in ways I find either practical or interesting. N is decent, but doesn't grab me that much. O is red, M feels like it could be something the RB faction does.
>>
>>84904578
>feel like it could be something the RW faction does
Fixed.
My mistake, a very important typo.
>>
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>>84904282
K and L I like most because they keep the "creature and Vehicle"/noncreature split consistent. Not feeling N at all. M and O seem good, but I think lean GW as well as K and L. O in particular feels like it should be in RW.
>>
>>84904282
I like L the best, it's not even close

>>84905664
this feels exactly like a filler rare, and if that was the intention then well done on replicating that simple, barely-above-mediocre feeling. it basically does nothing unless you force an interaction by using a blue redirection onto it at a time where you also have the ability to capitalize on the opportunity it presents

>
I continue to find art that I like and then try to create a card around it
>>
>>84904481
>>84904578
>>84907171
>>84908279
It sounds like L is the favorite with K as a second. Glad to hear at least some of my designs were on the right track then. I think I will stick with L, just because the lifegain does help make it feel more White while you're flashing in creatures and making Elf tokens. K has some nice simplicity, but that's about it.

Thanks for all the feedback

>>84905664
Interesting, although an opponent might just ignore it or chump block it. Adjusting the size/cost and giving it trample might make it more tempting as a removal target, although in a lot of ways this might just be a 7/7 with hexproof for how unwilling opponents will be to try and target it.

>>84908279
Seems solid enough. Adding three mana is nice, though it's offset by when you can spend it. The second ability works in terms of protection, although you'd need to tap their creatures down before you're even sure if they're attacking you. Though I suppose it also works to untap some blockers to surprise them with. For 5 cmc, I'd say it looks fair.
>>
>>84908667
With L decided as yout multicolor legend, how do you suppose that'll affect your mono color? As last I recall you mentioned him also being in flux.
>>
>>
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>>84908719
Well, these were the two versions I had previously that went over well in terms of feedback. I did put it on hold just to make sure I didn't overlap too much with the mythic. That said, they have both ended up with token generation, although it is supposed to be a go-wide faction with tokens to crew Vehicles, and they do make the tokens in different ways, so it might not be too big of an issue.
I think the hangup I'm still having is that these sorts of effects are very similar to what the WR faction has going on for its Vehicles via Artificers, although that may just be a personal gripe.
>>
>>84909542
I'm not sure it would be that big a deal, but that'll be for you two to decide. Speaking of, I think he's due back to return soon. Hope he's able to.
>>
>>84909542
Just had a thought; how about a temporary buff with perhaps a bonus if the target is a vehicle?
"Whenever a creature you control patrols, target creature you control gets +1/+1 until end of turn. [Then if that creature is a Vehicle, put a +1/+1 counter on it.]"

or something like that? helps empower weenie crewing by making their second crew a turn better. with the brackets being a little something extra you could do to help reinforce that even further.
>>
>>84909646
Considering that wording would allow you to buff any creature, it could buff a vehicle it's crewing just as easily as itself or another creature. The counter is unneeded.
>>
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Have some cards
>>
>>84909776
that notseize makes me a bit queasy but they have good flavor
>>
>>84910204
The gimmick of Spellshapers isn't just that they discard a card to activate an ability. The gimmick is that the ability mirrors a printed Magic card by cost and effect.
>>
>>84909588
I don't think it would be that big of a deal either, but it's the sort of thing that I know would bug me. If there was a set with vertical cycles of cards with effects based around giving Vehicles keywords that are all artificers in WR, and then this one Green legend for some reason.

>>84909646
I'm not sure if improving a creature's second crew is that worthwhile, given you would need to have a lot more Vehicles than creatures. The legend can already probably crew two ships a turn by himself if you really need him to.
Creating tokens is also a much more long-term solution to that, since the tokens that get made are already functionally 1 extra power to crew with right away, as well as on subsequent turns. That's part of the reason why I went for the token angle in the first place, because it's one of the most Green ways of benefiting Vehicles in a way that feels very natural.
If I were to change it away from tokens, putting +1/+1 counters on things might be a decent alternative.


>>84909361
Very strange. The eye is very big for something you can make repeatedly with the land, though it would cost you 3 life for each one you make normally. That said, I think if you built around it you would handily overwhelm your opponent with unblockable eyes. I don't think it'd be much stronger than a card like Golden Guardian, but Golden Guardian has a couple extra hoops and hurdles before it starts cranking out tokens every single turn.

>>84909776
Not sure how much I like Pilot being used for cards that don't have anything to do with Vehicles mechanically, although flavorwise I suppose it works out. The Sorcery seems to just be a twist on Duress, with the exile coming at the cost of 1 life, which is probably fine.
Also, for the RB card, I think you can say
>Whenever one or more cards are exiled during your turn,
>>
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So
>>
Brap
>>
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>>84908279
>>84908667
Thanks for the feedback. I tried tinkering with it a little, does this seem better?
>>
>>84911586
I like it, kinda reminds me of pic rel and Ikoria's "keyword tribal".
>>
>>84911586
Seems decent.
>>
>>84909776
I need more knight pilots. Super cool cards
>>
>>84912929
Seems overblown and bloated. Also it having trample will almost always trigger the untap effect. And with that the Vigilance seems redundant.
>>
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>be messing with new keyword ideas an hour ago
>come up with something called "pestilent"
>fuckyeahthisiscool
>think about it some more, and realize it's just slightly better flanking
fug. so i made this instead
>>
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>>84920911
The wording on this is a bit confusing; I wonder if there isn't an easier way to achieve this effect.
>>
>>84920911
Let me see if I've got this right
>opponent attacks with five bears
>you block with three goblins, each to one bear
>you tap the legend to remove two of the goblins
>two of the bears become unblocked
>the two unblocked bears then block one other bear
Because that feels like I'm messing up somewhere if it basically causes attacking creatures to block for you. If that is the intent, then dealing damage based on the number of attacking creatures or causing them to fight one attacking creature seems more sensible.

If the intent is just to make something that's blocking block something else, I think you could just steal the wording from Master Warcraft, although Master Warcraft would also allow you to prevent any blockers at all. That said, based on it you might be able to have it say
>You choose how creatures block this turn. (Their controller still decides which creatures block.)
And then just lean on the existence of Master Warcraft to get the idea across. They choose what blocks, and you choose how. Might want to make it activate only at Sorcery speed to avoid timing issues though.
>>
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>>84910496
Am I seriously the last person on earth to realize this?
fixed. Glint, Deadly Allure, and Birds of Paradise respectively.

>>84920714
I'm always scared of making new keywords as we're at the point where there's very little that cannot be expressed by existing keywords and means. rimeweaver's pretty neat, although that 3/1 body is confusing. surely killing a creature is preferable to tapping it down in most cases, but with 1 toughness she dies to anything so you'll rarely make use of her 3 power.
>>
don't mind me just shamelessly stepping on Garth's toes
>>
>>84922147
Might as well be an Alchemy card.
>>
>>84922115
If she were any bigger she wouldn't feel very blue, and any smaller there wouldn't be much impetus to block her, so her ability's utility gets cut in half. Also, I wanted to be sure you basically HAVE to use her ability to keep her alive in case she does get blocked so there's lots of decisions to make.
>>
>>84922596
>>84922115
Forgot to mention that I like Firya, though I wonder if she should be a Spellshaper; I guess lampooning creature spells is okay too.
>>
>>84922603
Also note that Spellshaper's referencing abilities is also fair game. Toymaker's effect is a reference to the effect of Karn, Silver Golem.
>>
>>84922653
Yeah that's fair.
>>
>>84912929
Sauce on illustrator?
>>
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>>84923324
See if you can perhaps reverse search it. I don't remember where I got it
>>
>>84923946
https://mobile.twitter.com/JagnjicTomislav/status/1459230944976584705
>>
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>>84927729
Giving this Flash might be fun so you can answer removal with this and smirk about it.
>>
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Messing around with Bloodfin and came up with this. Can't decide how degenerate it is or if I even like it. Toned down:
>Whenever a source you control deals damage to a player, you may pay 1 life. If you do, exile the top card of that players library. You may play that card for as long as it remains exiled.

Should have more serious concepts hopefully this weekend.

>>84932415
>hands
The idea is interesting, but that's absurd value for the cmc not to mention all the shuffling would get very tedious very quick. Revealing the top 3 cards a picking one and bottoming the rest would be longer, but better in those senses.

>>84927729
I like this, but yeah flash would really be nice for it. Though I think its cmc may need to be upped for that.
>>
>>84933245
Yeah, pushed to far. Either go with what you suggest in your post, or go further and restrict it to just creatures.

As for the token generation, I'm not a huge fan of having two abilities on this card that involve paying life. Replace with a low mana cost?
>>
The Rock
>>
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>>84927729
I think the trigger should be "as ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice [...]" rather than a cost during casting.
As others pointed out, flash would be a big plus, but the cost would've to be upped (maybe a 2/2 for 2U?)

>>84932415
I feel like I roll with the same remark for nearly all cards I see from that collab set: they do too many things at once and are pushed in each of their features, all with state of the art rates/keywords.
It's like reading a novel where every character is a mary sue, it's indigestible.
I can't really suggest pinpointed fixes for only a few cards since my issue is on a larger scale. But to be honest I have the same issue with all sets wotc put out since I quit playing so in the end you can as well not care about what I think
>>
>>84935803

>>84932415
meant for >>84933245
>>
>>84935803
>I think the trigger should be "as ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice [...]" rather than a cost during casting.
In this case, it won't copy ETB abilities of sacrificed creature.
>>
>>84935887
it would. Note that it's "as ~ enters" and not "when ~ enters"
>>
>>84935803
I think you could safely make this "that many plus one" because you're trading down for the most part.
>>
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>>84936159
I could, but ramping that way is a concept that I kept for pic related. (it's also pushed so you can trade your artifacts, including treasures)
>>
Brap
>>
https://www.urzas.ai/
>>
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>>84939563
I like this. Though maybe it should have a keyword, considering how its power is reliant on your opponents. Or an ability that has each of your opponents create a token or something.

>When ~ enters the battlefield, each opponent creates a 1/1 [use your own color and type here] creature token with "This creature can't block."
>>
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>>84939563
It's a cool concept. My fear is that it's going to be mostly disappointing in 1v1.
To spice it up it could gain a perk when no opponent has a creature. Off the top of my head:
>"As long as no opponent controls a creature, ~ assigns combat damage equal to its toughness rather than its power."
>"~ has indestructible as long as no opponent controls a creature."
(Rarity and mana cost might need adjustments then)
>>
>>84940714
This is really cool. Though I do wish it exiled instead of destroyed.
>>
Should I redownload MSE? Is it updated with new frames? I've had forever and it doesn't even have innistrad transform templates
>>
>>84941857
Just make sure you have the Mainframe frames (M15 Mainframe, Mainframe Walkers, and Mainframe Tokens). They'll cover 99% of the cards you'll want to make, and they have a bunch of options you can toggle in the Styles tab without having to use 12 different frames.
>>
>>84935803
Damn dude, you didnt have to kill them.
For the card, nice, but I agree with >>84936159

>>84936200
The turtle isn't really a ramp card. It's a filtering card.
>>
>>84935803
I agree with you. I only remember a couple of vanilla variations on the whole set. I know they are not interesting to design, but a game of chess needs pawns, they don't need to be craw wurms, but a player needs to skip through them on a pack and instantly get what it's about.
>>
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>>84938847
>>
>>84942715
>>84935803
And you two couldn't have said this earlier because...?

I'm sorry if you don't like the set, but I'm not really in the mood to redesign maybe half my cards because you two couldn't pipe up in the *year* we've been designing this set. Or were you just holding off so you could act smug about later?
>>
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Magic: the Gathering:
A Trading Card Game of Multiversal Sorcery
>>
>>84942715
>>84943047
I do think there have been some people pointing out cases where cards were getting overly complex, although to a certain extend I tend to naturally assume custom sets will be slightly higher than average in terms of complexity regardless, simply because somebody would need to go out of their way to actually use the cards.
That said it is still tiring for potential draft players to parse through things when even commons end up with six lines of text just to do something really weak anyway.
>>
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>>84943047
I have been pointing many times that cards were pushed or too complex, I know that it's a smaller set with 5 factions, making it closer to Dragon's Maze than Return to Ravnica or Gatecrash, so the complexity will be above average, but even that set had cards like Wind Drake.
Some of the designers have been taking some of my suggestions in consideration and did some changes, but it's not like I'm their boss or always right, if they don't think it's worth the changes, then I'm not gonna spend the next hour trying to convince them that I'm right and they are wrong.
It's just my opinion that the collab set should have more simple cards. If you think it's an opinion worth considering, you don't need to redesign half of the set, changing a couple of cards in common and uncommon to be simpler shouldn't be that hard. There is always that one or other card that we know it's a bit too much, and you can just change a 3~4 line effect for a keyword or a bit more body.
>>
>>84943589 (me)
Also, to not look like I'm just acting smug, I do remember that there are a couple of factions that are simpler, and I know that it's not equally easy to make simple cards for each faction.
For example, I know that Patrol is just vigilance if you don't add anything else, so I understand if cards with patrol ends up a bit more complex than exalted for example, but that doesn't mean that either of them can just ramp up the complexity.
And I know that the harder one to make simple is the treasure faction, since he's trying to put both treasure creation and payoff with a small amount of cards, but I think I said once that treasure creation is already a payoff in itself, especially in a set like this that allows for some splashes.
>>
Why was mana burn removed? It gave us some pretty interesting cards and has potential for more
>>
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>>84944508
I think the primary factor is that it just rarely happens. You need to give an opponent mana or otherwise force them to tap lands at a bad time. I think it's better off on one-off cards like Yurlok where a card specifically burns people for not spending mana, and then also has a way to give it out.
>>
>>84945788
I know it's japes, but I find it funny that even core sets are more complex than this now. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it.
>>
>>84945788
These are too complicated???
>>
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>>84943047
C'mon, this has been pointed on since day 1

But in the end this is just feedback from me and some of the people here. All players want different things from the game so if you go simpler I'm sure there will be people to complain that it's too simple as well.
>>
>>84948821
NTA, but I think that's his list of commons intentionally edited to be as dead simple as possible
>>
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>>84947862
NTA but I think it was a retarded move.
It was used as a major balancing factor when stuff like Blinkmoth Urn or Braid of Fire was being developed; now their power levels are completely different from before because there's no danger of backlash from excessive amounts of mana.
>>
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>>84950243
>implying Draid if Fire and Blonkmoth Urn need to be balanced
Those cards are shit anyway and practically the definition of win-more. Manaburn as a balancing mechanic never quite got there, either the card is so good you don't actually care or the card is so bad it isn't good anyway.
>>
>>84950282
>Those cards are shit anyway and practically the definition of win-more
You've never played outside of FIRE, have you?
>>
>>84950243
If you're getting a boatload of mana out of Braid of Fire and your problem is that you don't have anything to spend the mana on, that probably means you're already losing. If you built a deck with that card in it and you don't have any of your instants to cast during your upkeep and you don't have any mana sinks on the board, then clearly you're being outplayed regardless of how much mana Braid of Fire is making.
You're already getting fucked over if you spent 2 mana on an Enchantment and you fail to get any value out of it.
>>
>>84950314
Do nothings being bad plays isn't a new occurrence retard-kun.
>t. tried to force Standard Might of the Masses/Eldrazi Spawn Tribal
>>
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>>84945788
I do appreciate that you took the suggestion I made, and I'm sorry if I made it feel like I was targeting you specifically, when it was more about a feeling I had while reviewing collab cards this past year.
I did a look at your commons from the last thread and I think yours was mostly fine, the only ones that stood out a bit more for me where the CB01 and CB02 that I think have a bit too much going on for a card that is supposedly to introduce what the mechanic of the faction.
Using a real life example, Dragon's Maze commons mostly had 1 to 2 abilities with a few exceptions. I think that as long as anons try to keep at around that many abilities per card on a common, I don't think it's worth worrying over it.

I will do a tally so it's not just my feelings(I did not count inherent mechanics such as enchant and crew):
White: 1,9 effects per card face
Blue: 1,84 effects per card face
Black: 2.05 effects per card face
Red: 2 effects per card face
Green: 1,84 effects per card face
DGM total: 1,74 effects per card face
Updated Black: 1,15 effects per card face

Cards to note:
White: WC05 has 3 effects and WRC04 has 4(!)
Blue: CGU03, CU07, CU10 has 3 effects
Black: CB01, CB02, CB03, CB10, CB11, CM01 has 3 effects
Red: CR01, CR03, CR13, CM01, and CM03 has 3 effects
Green: CM2 has 3 effects.
DGM: Around 5 cards with 3 effects.
Updated Black: 0 cards with 3+ effects.

I know that this doesn't mean that much when I gave same weight for effects like "flying" and "whenever this happens, do that", but it gives us a rough idea on card complexity and how many things a card does. If I could suggest, I would say that as far as commons go, Black and Red should slim around 3 of their most complex common cards, and white definitely should look again at WRC04 that scries, then reveals top card, and then do 2 different things based on what was revealed. I know that multicolored cards usually get a bit more leeway, but I really think this one is a bit too much for a common.
>>
>>84949110
And to add to this, I'm pretty sure it's a jab on the demand to simplify everything down to braindead levels and not actual revisions.
>>
Any updates from the blue and white leads?
>>
>>84950795
>Dragon's Maze commons mostly had 1 to 2 abilities with a few exceptions. I think that as long as anons try to keep at around that many abilities per card on a common, I don't think it's worth worrying over it.
Which most common cards in the collab already fit into if memory serves.

>>84945788
If this was a tongue-in-cheek shitpost, well done. If not, I think your commons where the best in the set beforehand and I'll be sad to see a lot of them scrubbed down this far, but it's up to you man.
>>
>>84952702
>>84950795
Sorry, this was me just venting a bit. I haven't been feeling super into the collab set lately, even though I know I should be kicking my own ass to get it done because I'm very close. Maybe looking at the MDFC Vehicles got me down again. Those and one other card are the only ones I really think need to be pushed to finish before my part is complete. And then reading that the set may need its complexity pushed down upset me a bit. It felt like being nearly done and being pushed back to the start.

Will do a serious revision later, where I look more closely at the commons and uncommons.

>>84948722
>>84948821
This was not serious and done to sand everything down as far as possible.
>>
>>84953484
Sometimes you need to push it out the door or it'll never leave. You guys are close, but missing the organizer, colorless and white guy are a problem. Blue guy hasn't posted in a little while eithe, but he's shown off some work.
>>
>>84953535
To put it bluntly, you can work on something for all of time and always be tuning it never satisfied. Sometimes you need to set a date and then let it go. It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough.
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>>84953761
OK, that's kinda funny.
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>>84950795
>Black: CB01, CB02, CB03, CB10, CB11, CM01 has 3 effects
Will probably change CB01. Doesn't seem great now that I look at it.

CB02 I'll probably leave as-is, because it's a near-reprint of Underworld Charger, also a common. Don't think I intended it to be so similar, but it works for me.

CB03, CB10, and CB11 I will take a look at. I think the former was fighting for space with another discard effect I had back then, so I can probably change that to a simpler form of discard. Maybe give is pseudo-Raid? CB10 and CB11 I added mill to when I was trying to add more mill in general to B. Will see if I can shuffle these effects around to slim down the individual cards while keeping some mill.

CM01 I will look at but will be reluctant to change. I really like the design of that card, plus it fills out the draft slot of the big, common flyer. Might up her to uncommon or something.
>>
>>84953761
Wow now, that white version is pretty broken!
>>
>>84945788
>4-mana counterspell that doesn't even come with a side benefit to the fact it costs 4 mana
cut-and-paste design isn't so complex that it's restricted to uncommon and above
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>>84954953
That was a shitpost.
>>
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>>84950795
I feel pretty confident if pic related is my most complex common.

>>84956869
Pretty straightforward effect, but I like it a lot. Plays really well into WG's shared creature token strats.
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What do you think of pic rel's playability in various formats?
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>>84956775
Oh, it's like one of the WAR planeswalkers? Wait, I thought the rares could add loyalty counters. Think I'd change -1 to not be so punishing. 3 damage a turn just feels like a lot.
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>>84956775
jontron really let himself go, huh. that -3 should probably be a -4 but i like its design otherwise, even if it's not very exciting.

>>84956869
i'm shocked this sort of effect doesn't already exist in a card, but you've represented it well here.

>>84958721
I only play edh so take this as you will but maybe there are some mono white lifegain->angel strategies that would enjoy the scry effect as white tends to struggle with card advantage (though that is slowly becoming not the case anymore with every set that is released), but at sorcery speed it's a hard pill to swallow.
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Thinking of changing this discard spell to a combat trick to hopefully make it simpler. Or does granting +2/+0 and Deathtouch count as two effects and mean it's still at three effects total?
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>>84960366
I don't see an issue with it honestly. It's very basic and I wouldn't let that shit get you too caught up. Both cards are pretty solid.
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>>84960366
If you where desperate to simplify, you could pick the +2/+0 or the deathtouch and then likely reduce the cost to 1B. You don't really need both in most instances especially if the intent is a combat trick.
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Last batch before bed.

>CB10
Changed entirely. Might use this to fill the selected discard slot, plus a bit of room for graveyard hate. This does mean I'm down a mill effect though, so that's something I'll have to keep my eye on during further revisions. Was thinking of changing my Costly Plunder to something like Ransack the Lab, but I feel like Plunder works too well with BR to change.

Oh, and flavor text. Wanted to keep it simple.

>CB11
Removed the draw. Easy change.

>CB01
Removed Lifelink. Another easy change. Looking at the old iteration, having Lifelink on a creature that can ETB with a counter on it probably just changed the math too much for a common.

>CB03
New version, this time an edict effect. As a reminder, this card needs to do something with Treasure because it was made to tie into the BR faction where the mechanic is Treasure. Let me know if hitting each player and also including artifacts (since it's a Vehicle set) are good ideas or not.
>>
>>84960932
If CB03 isn't good, I could change it to a 2B Diabolic Edict that also has you create a Treasure. Instant speed would help it hit animated Vehicles. Though I guess at that point the opponent would be more likely to sac a creature that crewed it this turn. Opponent has to sac a creature that hasn't crewed this turn?
>>
fell asleep on the couch bump
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>>84952364
White lead here, no updates yet, but I'm going to rework on WRC04 as far as commons go.
I thought I would get some time free when I finished my postgraduate degree, but I'm already getting a new job next week.
I will do my best to to have a full faction by the end of the month.
>>
>>84962763
congrats on the degree and new job man!
>>
>>84962763
Excited to see what revisions you make when you're able to post again. Congrats on everything too. Don't stress things too hard.

>>84960932
>>84960946
Really going to miss the token generation of CB10, but the new version seems nice enough. Flavor text isn't bad, but could be used for some lore such as why your faction leader would want to exile something rather than pull it under for his own use.

I think CB11 was fine before, but the revision is also okay. Not sure how often it'll end up used though.

CB01 I have to disagree with your analysis that lifelink made it too complex, but it's servicable without it. I'd maybe consider dropping the escape to B+discard though.

CB3 I almost want it to read create a token for each permanent sacrificed this way, but that supercharges it well past common. Here I think you could get away with making this instant. It's right on the cusp of being 1B taking Innocent Blood into account, but it's not shabby at 2B.

>>84960233
Why is Rath's Doom a legendary? You're wasting a lot of card text to insist it's actually not legendary.

>>84958721
Reduce to 2 and 2 at instant speed and I could see this maybe being useful in limited. As is it's not terrible, just probably a bit too slow for its intended purpose. Adding cards to your deck whos only job it is is to filter tends not to go too well since there's no actual card or boardstate advantage going on here.

>>84950256
Nice flavor, but this is a long round about way of saying your opponents tokens die when they spawn.
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>>84962763
Congrats, anon
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>>84960932
How broken do you think Rise From the Deep would be if it let you pick any card in your graveyard instead of just creature and vehicle? Upping to 2B would still be good.
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>>84968414
Also I don't know if it's intentional or not, but Pirate's Greeting is a beautiful card since in a mirror match it allows the opponents procs to go off, then gives you an asset to ensure you can then proc yours.
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>>84968414
It's not really in B's portion of the color pie to recur any card. That's a G mechanic. The other colors are generally restricted to recurring the stuff they generally care about. Creatures for W and B, instants and sorceries for U and R, etc.
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>>84968479
>>84969000
Honestly hadn't thought about that. But it is an interesting interaction.
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Now that I've started playing MTG IRL, I've been thinking of using CO stuff for skinned cards rather than making them custom cards. Might look into getting proxies made one day, not sure yet.

>>84965856
>Flavor text isn't bad, but could be used for some lore such as why your faction leader would want to exile something rather than pull it under for his own use.
I definitely don't think everything that falls under a color should also fall under the color's leader. So this would represent the parts of the ocean beyond even Krevic's grasp. Maybe I should make that more explicit.

>I think CB11 was fine before, but the revision is also okay. Not sure how often it'll end up used though.
Idea was mill to help fill graveyard with Escape stuff, then it can replace itself for discard fodder to pay an Escape cost.

> I'd maybe consider dropping the escape to B+discard though.
I was thinking of that myself.

>CB3 I almost want it to read create a token for each permanent sacrificed this way, but that supercharges it well past common.
Had the same thought and came to the same conclusion. Idea itself is cool though. Might try to make an unrelated card out of it.

>Here I think you could get away with making this instant. It's right on the cusp of being 1B taking Innocent Blood into account, but it's not shabby at 2B.
Cool.

Thanks for the feedback!
>>
Question - if you have an enchantment that says "creatures with no abilities have first strike" what happens? Do they just have first strike with no issues or does a problem arise when it checks for no abilities, then gives them first strike, then checks again and sees that they have an ability which means they no longer get first strike from the enchantment which starts the loop over again?
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>>84971519
Not sure. I kinda want to say they would just have First Strike, working kinda like March of the Machines. But you could just change it to a trigger.
>At the beginning of each combat, each creature you control with no abilities gains first strike until end of turn.
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>>84971519
Look at March of the Machines: there is no loop. But now your Rhuxa (vanilla commander professor from STX) doesn't buff them.
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>>84970648
what does she think she's going to do with those batons? she's in a wheelchair
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>>84971519
>Creatures you control with no abilities deal combat damage first before other creatures.
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>>84971519
Maybe this >>84972079, but:
>Creatures you control with no abilities deals combat damage before creatures without first strike.
Although this kinda defeats the point of ability-less creatures.
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>>84971519
maybe word it as "creatures with no other abilities have first strike"?
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I'd really appreciate some help with this one.

I wanted to include "creatures [you / opponent] controls that die in combat" as additional triggers for [adding / removing] grudge counters, but it's already so wordy. What do?
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>>84973496
Too much text, favor over function, it seems more white than red, Warhammer sucks ass
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>>84973496
remove the ability that removes grudge counters entirely. once he's got them, they stay on him. that'll make it much less of a chore to keep track of especially in its current form where you have different levels of effects that take place at different numbers of grudge counters.
"Whenever a nontoken permanent you control is put into your graveyard from the battlefield after being destroyed or dealt damage by a source an opponent controls, if there are fewer than three grudge counters on Thorgrim, put a grudge counter on Thorgrim.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Thorgrim has three grudge counters, create a 2/1 red Dwarf creature token, then Dwarfs you control get +3/+0, gain haste until end of turn, and attack this turn if able."
maybe something like that.

>>84971586
>>84971979
>>84972079
>>84972160
>>84972550
so what i'm gathering is that the wording on pic related left could technically work but that i should probably reword it to be the one on the right?
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>>84974372
Thanks for the input, I like the grudge counters staying on him.
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>>84973496
You really need to slim this down. For example, you could keep the counters to pump your creatures, and remove them to generate Dwarf tokens. That would also allow you to get rid of the counter cap and removing counters when you destroy something an opponent controls.

Speaking of, maybe have it gain counters from something other than destruction effects. This isn't Yugioh, so relying purely on destruction means it isn't going to go off very often.
>>
>>84971519
>>84972160
Another option might be to do the reverse, and frame the effect as a negative that affects only creatures with abilities. So "Creatures with abilities lose first strike/double strike and can't gain first strike/double strike" for instance would avoid some of the confusion there by giving creatures without abilities an edge without affecting them directly.
>>
>>84974372
Yep, also prevents potential confusion while on the battlefield like if its still granting it or not. As even if you know, a person who doesn't know will need clarification.
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Bumping with my latest try at the common MDFC.
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>>84978629
I think this is pretty good here. Though I question if the token coming into play tapped is really needed or if exiling a card from the yard would be better. On one hand discard helps you load with escape and can be done earlier, while exile can take longer to do and helps make use of junk cards without sacrificing card advantage.
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>>84979012
Eh, I could go with either.
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>>84979968
I'd say look at how many cards you have that let you load your graveyard outside escape and then decide.
I suspect you have quite a lot of outlets already and would propose that going with exile from yard and letting the token enter untapped might be the better direction since it lets you make use of the junk cards you'll have. Though it's not as "mirror" with the front side as discard is.
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Dark Betrayal was always one of my favourite card designs from back when I was playing, so keeping thread alive with a new 'Gainsay cycle' idea, though admittedly some of them might have gotten off track from the original intent (read: I have no idea what else to do with red that's in-colour for it).
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>>84980036
Hmm, leaning a bit towards exile then. Besides, I'm not super concerned with the faces mirroring each other anymore. The token creation is important for the Vehicle because it's supposed to play off the flavor of a ghost ship, which is an idea from very early on.
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>>84978629
New version.

>>84981530
Never been a huge fan of color hosers. Also not a fan of how these effects are so different from each other. Token generation, tapdown, removal, copy, counters. Note how the Gainsay cards from Theros were all ultimately removal effects. On the other hand, this is just my personal preference, so feel free to ignore me.
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>>84983238
Acts as some counter play and gravehate which might be needed, but I was thinking something more "when ~ enters the battlefield, you may exile a card from your graveyard. If you do, create a token."
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>>84983279
Ah. Guess I could do that.
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>>84983238
One one hand Vehicles that bring tokens to crew themselves are uncommon or higher, on the other hand I don't mind pushing the Vehicle side considering it competes with a very playable variant of Phyrexian Rager.
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bump
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>>84983238
>>84983279
>>84983745
I'd been trying to incorporate some effect that gets cards from your graveyard back into your library for some time. And I just realized I could try incorporating that effect here.
>>
Rakdos graveyard matters common.
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>>84989846
This is bad, I rather pay one more for the soul salvage and keep the card in my hand longer
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>>84989846
Agreed with >>84989965. Also, if you want you could throw in some G, since WotC introduced G "exile matters" cards for the Baldur's Gate RG precon deck. Pic related is one of them.
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>>84989846
>exile the creature cards
>play them in the middle of your opponent's turn
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>>84992252
You'd still need to obey the normal rules for casting times. So you could play them in the middle of your opponent's turn, but only if they have Flash or the like.
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>>84992304
Nah, the way you phrased it, it doesn't qualify under what circumstances you can or can't. It just says you can until a certain time. So, you can at any time then.

If you want the effect of making it limited to that circumstance, I would recommend this phrasing instead: "Exile up to two target creature cards from your graveyard. Until the end of your next turn, you may cast those cards as though they were in your hand."

That last part ("as though they were in your hand") brings with it, implicitly, all the normal rules with regards to them, as opposed to just giving you carte blanche.
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>>84992340
Firstly, it's not the way I phrased it, because it's not my card.
Secondly, you're simply incorrect on the ruling here.
Just for a very quick reference
>https://scryfall.com/card/afc/118/commune-with-lava
>Exile the top X cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play those cards.
>>Playing a card this way follows the normal rules for playing the card. You must pay its costs, and you must follow all applicable timing rules. For example, if one of the cards is a creature card, you can cast that card only during your main phase while the stack is empty.
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>>84988922
I would say go with whatever you feel you need more: Exiling to get rid of junk non-escape cards, or recycling to get those cards from the yard back into your deck.

Unless you're milling yourself a ton or have a lot of tutors instead of playing black as graveyard based, I can't think of too many reasons why I would prefer returning a card from the yard to the bottom of a deck, a specific type at that, instead of just throwing away any card I know I won't use for a guaranteed token.
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>>84993130
...Exile. I've always been a fan of recycling my resources and hated the idea of running out. But as I play more, I'm starting to realize that I'll rarely ever run out and I'm just being overly cauty.
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Trying to do a RG "exile matters" card.
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>>84983238
>>84993130
>>84993397
I'm inclined to agree that exile makes more sense. Restocking your library might work if you're really low on cards, but odds are one random creature isn't going to make the difference there. Anyone who is that scared about it would want a card like Elixir of Immortality.

I'm also wondering if you couldn't word this as
>When ~ enters the battlefield, you may exile target creature card from a graveyard. If you do, create a 2/2 black Zombie Pirate creature token.
I don't know if it'd save that much space, but it'd be closer to something like Boneclad Necromancer in terms of wording, and is a bit less redundant.

>>84993689
Red I could understand, but Green feels a little weird for an exile theme. WUR would be the colors I'd expect for that.
I think the fact that it's 6 mana helps keep it in check, since it does take stocking up your graveyard and then actually swinging with it to get proper value. Potentially, it's a massive creature and a multitude of big spells. In practice, I feel like it would exile a pile of cards and get removed right away.
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>>84994172
>>When ~ enters the battlefield, you may exile target creature card from a graveyard. If you do, create a 2/2 black Zombie Pirate creature token.
Think I'll go with that.

>Red I could understand, but Green feels a little weird for an exile theme. WUR would be the colors I'd expect for that.
Should've said this when I posted the card, but it's supposed to play into the "exile matters" theme used in the RG precon for Baldur's Gate. It's certainly an odd direction for RG, but I wanted to see what could be done with it. I understand it's definitely a Timmy card, but that was the idea.
>>
>>84994172
>>84995848
keep in mind that with that, it's going to more often than not be used as a hate tool since you won't want to be exiling any of your own (escape) creatures probably. It's likely a fine mid-way point between the concepts.
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>>84989846
I don't think it's a bad card. It's pretty much in line with all the other commons that return two creatures from the GY.

>>84993689
I'd cap the amount of cards you can exile. Either that or I'd remove trample.
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>>84876881
>>
>>84996386
Not a bad vertical cycle at all. I think your uncommon is probably the best of the bunch though. Both sides are pretty good. Vehicle is a bit close in its body to rare. Might be a non issue.

>>85000150
Yes anon, people like pirates and high adventure.
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>>84996792
Interesting design for sure. Would need to play with it to see if the effect is worthwhile or not but I like what you got going here
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>>84997838
>I'd cap the amount of cards you can exile. Either that or I'd remove trample.
Really? I mean, it doesn't have Haste, protection, or ant evasion outside of Trample. Unless you build around it, it's going to be dead obvious to the opponent that they need to remove it soon or get smacked for high damage.
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>>85002184
If it can end the game by itself in two swings then the last ability is unnecessary. I'd rather want the player to enjoy their free spells and exploit them to finish the game.
Right now it's like the card wants to prevent me from enjoying it.
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>>85002774
Oh, the issue it you can't swing much with it without just winning the game? Fair, didn't think of that.
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>>84997838
Seems rather oppressive for a leyline.
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Hey I'm on a design streak today.

>>85004743
maybe, maybe not. I'm not fond of leylines but that effect felt like a natural fit for one.
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>>85005513
Interesting, though I would include the reminder text.
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>>85000306
Seems like something that might rocket between not worthwhile and horribly broken depending on environment without spending much time in an interesting and fun place.
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>>85005513

Hear me out Hound Dino
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>>85011713

Not long ago i had the idea of Esper ninja and people would stop talking if having white ninja made is okay
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>>85008755
That'd be a shitload of reminder text then ^^

>>85011713
That a really red ninja, I like it
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Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar's planeswalker descendant, Ellamonaductivarisonyacar
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>>85011903
I like these ideas, but I'd use replacement effects.

>If you would scry one or more cards, you may surveil that many cards instead.

>If you would scry one or more cards, you may draw that many cards instead.
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Don't know anything about Genshin Impact, but I thought this art looked really cool and wanted to make a card for it. Name taken from the title of the art.
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>>85011749
Ideas are like assholes, dude. >>85011713 made a card that's definitely a red ninja, so if you want to make white ninja cards stop just talking and do it.
>>
bump

Sorry, just don't have anything to post right now.
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>>85021634
I think the last ability actually needs different wording. But I like the overall concept.
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>>85021634
>>85023801
I do think they usually have a cards = p/t effect stated more directly like with Maro, so rather than a 0/0 that gets +X/+X, it'd just be a */*.
I think when they use other wordings it's usually when it's an Enchantment/Equipment. The main exception I can see is Alrund, although he also counts your Foretold cards. I'm not sure if the wording is strictly wrong (other than the fact cards should just be card), but it is a bit unusual.

All that said, it's a pretty neat card. Might not be the most practical, but it's a massive monster that also gets off a nice wheel effect.
>>
>>85024182
I just meant that it should use wording more like Multani, Maro-Sorcerer.
>~ gets +1/+1 for each card in all players' hands.
Or something similar.
>>
>{1}{G}{W}
>Landfall — Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, create a Food token.
>{T}, Sacrifice a Food: Choose one —
>• Add {G} or {W}.
>• Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
>• Target creature gains trample until end of turn.
>2/2
Is this too strong as a commander? I thought it was fine until I playtested it and the moment I got out Academy Manufacter, I made 20+ treasures in a single turn. That alone makes me want to scrap the whole ideal altogether.
>>
>>85024948
Options for what to do with the Food seem kinda dull. Also, include a type line next time.
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>>85024948
I'd say that Academy Manufacter feels like the culprit there more than the legend. Gyome, Master Chef already exists as a potential commander to crank out a bunch of Food tokens, and if you're building around Food he probably has a better effect since he can more easily protect himself.

I don't think this would be glaring. At most I'd suggest making it 2GW and bumping up the statline to 3/3 to compensate, just so it's a bit slower.
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Rate my set's pushed mythics, anons. Newly revised!
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I think this is my final design for a new spell slinging mechanic. Thoughts?
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>>85015835
I prefer my wording (provided the rules handle it)
I like that they still count as instances of scry.

>>85016344
A free 2/2 each turn isn't really blue.
Also I'd have the reflection becoming a copy of the creature/enchantment that just entered the battlefield.

>>85021634
>>85024182
Wotc can't make up their mind about 0/0 vs */*. Personally, I'm more into */* (when possible) so the p/t is the same in all zones (and not just set when the creature is on the battlefield)

>>85024948
Giving alternate uses for artifact tokens is meh. They already have a purpose, don't turn them into energy counters.

>>85025484
Reverberate is always set at 2? or is it linked to the card's mana value?

>>85025184
I like that they are all pretty focused, good job!
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>>85025798

Sorry, meant to be linked to the card's mana value. But yeah I recently experimented with keeping it set at 2 mana regardless of each individual card.
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>>85025184
Alden is a good mythic, splashy, powerful and flavourful. The character looks pretty generic but that makes it a good fir.

I guess that Amana is a walker that visited Pyloa then went crazy because the notChulhu sang her a song? Gameplay wise, the first and the last ability make her fit into a control deck, what is her second ability supposed to do in the context of the set?

Derelict Colossus is a fine card, reminding me a little of Rotting Regisaur. If that card could be played in Standard without Madness, so can this.

Not much to say about Feasting Current, would love to draft around it.

I am very happy that your remembered the correct number of appendages that squids have. Any stats other than 10/10 would be very very inelegant.

Crew 3 is not an easy task, but Hameron copying abilities is a good reward for it. Sometimes the creature attacking is a better choice than a tad bigger Vehicle thanks to the creature's abilities. It probably causes some headache when it comes to linked abilities, but for a one card, that's ok.

Lemari Exemplar is supposed to be Subsumed, right? I don't remember a lot of Equipment with fancy keywords.

I like Lobotomize's text box, but while the name fits the flavour, "lobotomy" in Magic usually means cards like Memoricide, Slaghter Games or Unmoored Ego, so that was my expectation.

Neiome's ability would be very tedious in MODO. But custom cards don't need to worry about that I guess.

Nyltopr has a very good rate compared to other cards that kill a creature each turn, WotC is usually more reserved.

Reine fits the discard theme you made for Red, but what does Red do when it's out of cards?

What's the lore behind Rhima? The design is interesting and novel, but it looks as if you created a character solely to play with the mechanics of the planeswalker card type.

tbc
>>
>>85027803
continued

Scrapshell upgrading by eating enchantments is kinda weird, but aside from that it's a good flavour and a powerful card.
What I dislike the most is the statline actually. I dislike mythics getting such blatant mana "discount" considering the stats. If 4/6 vigilance for 4 mana is too big for a common, it should be too big for an all-upside mythics too. Gold cards get some love because they're technically harder to cast, but I would much rather prefer a 3/6 or 4/5 statline.

Seacaller Trident is a solid mythic, this is how colourless mythics should be.

I remember Shapetaker's copy ability being kinda clunky and honestly crappy, good to see that fixed.

It's kinda weird to see what's practically Rampaging Brontodon's ability on a Red-Blue card tbhon.
The reminder text should mention it's a 0/0 by default.

Rathoth is a sweet exciting card, Brisela-tier of awesome. But I would do what WotC did with Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun token and write down "Rathoth, the God Made Metal is legendary" in the text box, there's space for that. The space you save in the type bar this way use to put the colour indicator there.
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>>85026598
>Reverberate
Not really a fan. You cast one big thing and all your small Reverb spells get doubled for the turn. Also, minor wording issue, you should use "another" in the text, since otherwise it will trigger off itself. And if you do want to keep this keyword, maybe take out the instant and sorcery restriction so you could put it onto permanents. Or maybe make it so it Reverbs if the other spell cast also has the same type. IDK.
>>
>>85025484
>>85026598
Honestly I feel like this would be more interesting if it was simply having to cast a spell that shared the same type prior in the turn. So for example you could have a Reverberate Sorcery and as long as you cast another Sorcery beforehand, you could double it. Then it's less important to cast a bigger spell beforehand, and then you could have it be the case where you're more inclined to cast smaller spells to gradually work up towards a bigger one. That's probably a very different design though, and it would probably make things tricky in terms of making any higher costed spells when a one-mana cantrip can double the value of a big splashy rare.

Overall maybe I'm just not certain how important it is to have a keyword that encourages you to load up your deck with nothing but spells.
>>
I'm trying to make a card that makes all creatures lose abilities like trample and flying, they can't gain them from things like triumph of the hordes, and all counters are ignored in combat (i.e., A 2/2 attacking with a -1/-1 counter on it is still treated as a 2/2).
1. Is this a solid idea?
2. How should I word this?
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>>85035634
The individual effects sound fine, but I feel like it would be lame to combine them all. Look up the Archetype cards for the "lose abilities" part. As for counters, just prevent them from being placed like Blightbeetle.
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>>85027340
I don't think that the ability should feed itself with the milling part. You already have a flyer with a nice rate that draws cards.
Maybe make a player mill 3 cards on etb and make it a rare?

>>85035634
>Is this a solid idea?
If it's for 1 turn sure. If it's a lasting effect then it's hitting Humility's vibes and that's not a good thing
>>
Been thinking about an Elden ring-themed draft set to entertain myself while at work, and I've hit a road block. Sorcery in Elden ring is mostly blue-colored, and it's close to blue's ideas and themes, but most spells have a strictly offensive use, which is Ted's domain. How would you adapt glintstone sorcery into magic cards?
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>>85038049
I'd rather cut the mill part entirely to not "muddle" the design.
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>>84911586
The name is a bit dull.

In the White Counter thread, this is my favorite design but I think that the flavor text sounds too awkward and image doesn't convey what I wanted.
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>>85040267
>Cast this spell only during your turn.
>Counter target spell.
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>>85039007
Well, I'm not too familiar with Eldin Ring, so I can only suggest so much in terms of flavor.
That said, if it's a matter of getting across the idea of blasting spells in Blue, you could potentially represent some of those spells on creatures rather than as proper spells. Similarly, you could focus on Buff spells, since Blue does sometimes get Enchantments and spells to pump creatures, although it's usually alongside another effect, and you'd probably want to be sparing with that method. More general combat tricks could also work as a way to emphasize the combat function even if it doesn't boost power directly. Shocking Grasp from the Forgotten Realms set would be a good example of that.
Having a counterspell that only hits creature spells could also be flavored as offensive magic.

Depending on what Glintstone is, it might also be possible to take an approach to it via artifacts. Obviously there's a lot more flexibility for colorless cards in terms of having equipment that boosts power, grants various keywords, or deals damage outright. Then Blue can tie into it via the more typical artifact interactions it gets.
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>>85039007
Multicolor mate, or minor flavor bends. Gravity magic for instance could be black, chaos red, glintstone blue, faith white, etc.
>>
does anybody know of a good fantasy art database beyond the ones linked in the OP? I feel like I've exhausted all that they have to offer as far as what I'm looking for
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>>85045920
Wish I could help you out with that since I too could use a fresh new source sometimes.
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Probably spend way too much effort into making sure this works the "right" way. That is, you gain control of one creature for each opponent, but each of those creatures has to attack its owner (or owner's planeswalker) each combat. Idea was a sort of inverted Myriad, where instead of copies of a single creature, you gained control of a few different creatures. Plus I felt the art made perfect sense for a Myriad creature. Though I keep running into the issue of having no reason to attack with the creature itself. Maybe change to a combat damage trigger? "Gain control of target creature that player controls until the end of your next turn"?
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>>85045920
Unironically just search for art using bing instead of google. For whatever reason, bing is just better optimized to find good fantasy art.
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>>85048221
Why does it have Myriad if it doesn't do anything interesting with the ability?
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>>85038049
>card
In my opinion this is one of the best Cleave designs. The cheaper option is a fascinating design on its own.
>>85039007
This problem will appear anytime you want to adapt non-MtG IP. The colour coding will simply not match.
What can you do?
>you can just put blue artwork on Red cards
>you can use Black for the damaging spells
>you can convey the offensiveness by milling, tapping down, -N/-0, discarding, "superbouncing" to the top of library, bouncing and superbouncing based on toughness so it mimics damage
>>85039075
I like this.
>>85039586
This will probably never get the bonus.
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>>85049974
Good point. Think I got way too carried away with the "gain control" aspect of it.
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>>85039075
>>85039586
I think the issue I'm seeing with this mechanic as a whole is that if you're dealing with anything more than Reverberate 2 on a 3 cmc card, it's very unlikely you'll actually pull it off in a game.

Like for Archaic Secrets, you ideally need to have another 3 cmc instant in your hand in order to cast both during your opponent's turn, but the 3 cmc card needs to also be useful in the situation, and you also need to have a good number of cards in your hand so you can actually get the Illusion tokens at a decent size.
By comparison, stacking a deck with a bunch of 2 cmc spells with Reverberate 2 so that you can mix and match freely always seems like it'll be preferred, but obviously that leads to the keyword being very static. It's a weird case where adding variety to the keyword actively makes it worse since you lose synergy.
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>>85051943
this actually feels like you got more carried away with the "harem" aspect of it in that you wanted it to actually be multiple bodies because that's what a harem is. I would play with that and make it gain control of a creature on each of your combats with power equal to the number of demons you control and tweak it from there so you can build around it AND myriad does something
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>>85038049
>If it's for 1 turn sure. If it's a lasting effect then it's hitting Humility's vibes and that's not a good thing
I was hoping to put it on a commander. Friends and I are designing a video game based custom EDH thing, and I was wanting to do Quagsire from pokemon. That part is irrelevant, but Quagsire's main ability lets him ignore all other abilities on other pokemon, and I was hoping to turn that into a card, but was worried it'd either be too powerful or too boring.
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Thoughts? Wanted to make a specter lord.
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>>85056205
Eh. I mean, I guess it helps discard strategies that Specters naturally play into. Though I think I'd want something more Black, rather than using this effect that just feels very R to me.
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>>85056205
>>85058224
Maybe a Covetous Urge-style effect?
>Whenever a Specter you control deals combat damage to a player, that player reveals their hand. You choose a nonland card from that player’s graveyard or hand and exile it. You may cast that card for as long as it remains exiled, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast that spell.
Typical hand hate, but also combos with other discard abilities by allowing you to steal something good they previously discarded.
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>>85058224
How would you make it more black? A lot of the specters in the game don't actually have the ability to swing through quickly and/or safely, so I wanted to be able to let them do both. It'd also help the specters that can't cause discards through damage do their thing.
>>85058639
That could also work, yeah. I know specters have the big issue of 1.) everyone hating discard decks a lot and 2.) being stuffed if your opponent doesn't have any cards in hand, so I really like this idea.
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I just discovered this
>https://www.urzas.ai/
Do you all talk about this here or is it considered dumb?
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>>85059308
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>>85059308
>Put my name to see what magic card I am
mixed feelings here.

All cards I've generated are out of pie so I don't really see any value in it
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>>85059308
I'd say it's mostly a factor where there isn't that much to discuss. Statistically a lot of cards will probably end up being weird assuming they aren't out of color.
Just trying it out three times I got pic related:
The Red is pretty mana-intensive, but it does ping creatures, which generally isn't a common effect in Red nowadays without having some other cost to it. Compare with Blood Aspirant for example. Otherwise it'd probably be outclassed by stuff like Blood Cultist or Rakdos Ickspitter if we're talking older cards. Being monocolored and having 2 extra toughness is hardly worth paying 2 mana for every shock.
The Blue is just Caller of Gales but the ability is 1 mana cheaper. There's really nothing more to say about it beyond that, right down to the creature type.
The Black card feels more White or Green, where it has trample and puts +1/+1 counters on all of your creatures as a payoff for casting creature spells. It's basically Cathar's Crusade on a body in a lot of ways. Not to mention the weirdness of a Zombie caring about non-Zombie creatures. I suppose that could be used for a flavor angle of a zombie infecting other creature types, but the card doesn't really lean into that.

For your card, there's the oddness of having XU listed again on the ETB effect, and the card itself would obviously suit Green better. It feels like a worse Lifeblood Hydra, where you would just remove a counter from it to gain some life if it's about to die from a boardwipe, but otherwise it's just an Ivy Elemental.

And that's basically what you get every time. It's mostly designs that are pretty much existing cards after some tweaks, and you occasionally get something weird enough that it might inspire a proper idea. Either way, there's not a ton of reason to discuss the cards themselves, at least not without posting the card, and then also posting a reworked version or something based on that card to show you're actually iterating on the design.
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>>85059441
If nothing else, its good for a brief giggle.
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>>85059500
Should probably stop posting these, dont want to fill up the thread
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I think using artificially generated art is just a sign of laziness. I like it even less than art-less designs.
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What's the stupidest thing you can come up with using mana abilities that don't use the stack? Like with Selvala's parley
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>>85061453
>>85061901
Don't like the idea of just having the free copies. But I think doing something that triggers from the graveyard could work. Something like
>Whenever you cast a spell with mana value N, you may exile this card from your graveyard. When you do, copy this card. You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.
So I guess something like graveyard-Splice.
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>>85064907
I like your suggestion. I've definitely considered it before, but not exactly in that way. How does this look?
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>>85068281
There's also this as a variant, if you find this one more interesting.
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>>84903787
Hey hey people, Seth here.
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>>85068464
Thank you
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How would you fix Energy?
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>>85059308
almost everything is nonsensacle and the ones that actually manage to spit something out half legible are usually one ability. that's usually off color.
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>>85070274
>"Each player takes another turn after this one."
So, you take an extra turn, and then the turn order proceeds as normal, after which the player after you resumes the turn order? Am I interpreting that right? If that's the case, you're paying 3 to basically say "take an extra turn, but skip your next turn after that."
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>>85069323
Does it need a fix? It's probably the cleanest execution for such a mechanic.
Maybe, instead of using counters they could've been ability-less artifact tokens (I'd name them Scrap tokens) so it's not as parasitic since you can interact with them more easily.

>>85070274
>500.7: If multiple players are given extra turns, the extra turns are added one at a time, in APNAP order (see rule 101.4). The most recently created turn will be taken first.
Interestingly, that means that the player before you plays his extra turn first, then you go backward up to you and you get to play your extra turn in last.
It gets funky when anotyher player overload this spell during their own extra turn
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>>85070956
>You play your extra turn last
Doesn't that defeat the entire point then? Once you finish your extra turn at the end of the list of added turns, the game just moves on to the player that would normally come after you. So you basically paid three mana to reverse the game's direction for one round.
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>>85070956
>Does it need a fix?
It's just a clumsier more parasitic mana pool at its core.
>card
That's pretty damn nice.
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But what if we had a Planeswalker with Modal Loyalty Abilities?

Naturally they also have an Escalate Cost.
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>>85074635
Not sure about Escalate, but you could do something like Mirrodin Besieged.
>As ~ enters the battlefield, choose Mirran or Phyrexian.
>+1: Mirran -- [...] Phyrexian --
Would eat up the text box pretty quickly though.
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>>85071321
Knights dont get "recruited", so wouldn't it make more sense (flavor wise) to have the token creatures be Soldiers instead?
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>>85074635
>>85075714
At that point it'd probably be better to just do a MDFC card if it's modal when it enters.
If it's specifically having abilities that do multiple things if you pay an extra cost, the abilities would need to be incredibly simple.
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>>85076356
Not that anon, but I dislike making 2/2 vigilance tokens soldiers when knights can work (which is why I hate Finale of Glory.
The card itself is sweet.
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>>85076356
>>85078293
Name was made after I came up with mechanics. Could change name or change tokens. 1/1 Soldiers maybe, though obviously I'd have to rebalance the card.
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>>85071321
Not a fan of the lack of {T} cost on the populate ability. Also its activation should probably be sorcery speed
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>>85079618
Well, the idea was to make it highly repeatable. Could tinker with it a bit though, maybe add a mana cost.

>card
Guess it makes sense for W to get a discount when wiping the board if it has the most to lose. Though I think I'd change the base cost to 3WW and get rid of the "more to cast" part.
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>>85069323
Energy does something even when it's not being used.
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>>84920911
So you can block your own attackers?
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night bump
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>>85085070
I want 10 for my decks thank you very much. Although I'm not sure if monoblack can recur equipments from the graveyard like this?
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>>85079543
You think "Chivalric Rallyer" or something like that could work?
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>>85086216
Black does get some access to artifact recursion. Though this is probably a bend because it specifies Equipment. I'm fine with a small bend like this for flavor, though I could just make it WB. Would probably have to change the Swamp trigger though. Or maybe add a Plains trigger.

Original idea was focused on Swamps due to the medieval idea about spirits inhabiting swamps and people would supposedly leave swords in the swamp to appease the spirits. I think this is the idea for the Lady of the Lake.
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>>85071321
Redesigned, added a mana cost.
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>>85090929
Oh yeah, and I changed the name.
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>>85090929
Its cool. Unplayable in 2022, but cool.
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bump
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>>85090960
It's playable in limitted
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some ideas that I had
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>>85096082
>Gastal
What's the point of the token if it's a 0/0?
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>>85096082
What do you think about adding "you" to "add {R}" to make the ability more clear?
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>>85093321
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>>85096082
Ur Yrra looks so based
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>>85096082
Planar Overflow is scary, but I'm not sure if it's actually as dangerous as it looks at a glance. If you've got five mana to play it, then to your opponent has one turn while tapped out where they're still fairly free to tap things, then after that they need to be careful since if they tap 5 nonbasic sources you can tap all your stuff to burn them for 10, on top of having 10 R free to cast on a burn spell.
But if it's turn 6 and you're playing a Red-heavy deck, I feel like you'd get more out of Blood Moon shutting down opponents entirely while you get in a last bit of damage.

I could see it working more in Commander, where other players could tap their stuff to help you burn a threat, but that threat also has 40 life so 10 damage is less scary anyway.
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>>85096509
The Gastal Powder Range is a legendary land so I was thinking of some kind of pseudo grandeur style effect to get use out of dead copies in your hand, but in hindsight you can already sorta do that by just playing your copy and benefitting from the "land goes to graveyard" trigger of whichever one you keep. I think I would just change it to "Discard a card: create a colorless 0/0 Aether creature token", and I insist on the 0/0 for a couple of reasons. one, it's a land, and even though it's legendary I want to keep it comparatively low-impact. two, I think it's relevant, flavor wise. Gastal is a plane we know very little about, the lore page describes it as a long-abandoned featureless wasteland from back during the weatherlight time period. As a completely empty plane, I thought it'd be cool if you could channel mana into manifesting a creature native to it -- a creature of pure aether from the blind eternities, as there IS nothing native to it. something that can just begin to form, but cannot remain without additional help. as such, first off it's a creature ETB trigger, and then with an anthem it sticks around. without an anthem, it's a creature dies trigger. Not a lot, but could be impactful with the right setup.

>>85096837
Good call. I was sticking to strict oracle wording but now that you mention it, that wording has precedent as well, and I agree that it would make it more clear.

>>85100951
Thanks, I've made a lot of cards but I'm thinking of proxying this one to make an EDH deck around.

>>85103016
I'm an EDH player first so that's the first format that comes to mind in terms of balance, and I thought it fit well into that format given the bloated health pools and abundance of targets to pick from, while in constructed 1v1 formats the casting cost keeps it strictly in a build-around finisher role.
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>>85106621
hoooooooooooo boy.

>T: ~ deals damage equal to its power to you.
>Whenever ~ deals damage to a player, that player reveals the top card of their library. If it's a creature card, until end of turn, that player can cast it as though it had flash and it costs {X} (You would use the colorless mana symbol {X} here, not the letter X) less to cast, where X (you do use just the letter here though) is ~'s power as this ability resolves. Otherwise, that player draws a card.

She should also have blue in her casting cost, something like 2BUR, as this sort of thing has precedent in Izzet colors already. Also, not that it's mechanically relevant or anything but CHRIST do the mtgcardsmith cards look fucking awful with their bad formatting. If you want to make some other cards I would encourage you to either use MTG.Design or download the Magic Set Editor.
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This one's very experimental as there's no precedent for the third ability but I think the wording is kosher, and obviously the first one uses Liesa for precedent and the exploit wording uses Apex Devastator for precedent as there are no creatures that have multiple instances of exploit.
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>>85106621
assuming you go with the wording of >>85107019 I think this is pretty good, if a little undercosted. cheating out big dudes at instant speed is a huge bonus and I don't think the life it costs is sufficient enough of a downside at 4 mana. if it were 5 mana I think it would feel better to play against.
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>>85107959
How about slapping "activate this ability only when you could cast a sorcery" on the shelf ping instead of raising the cost? Or would it still be too pricy?
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tweaks and changes

>CU10 changed to play nicer with Surge
>CU13 new card
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tweaks and changes

>UU01 now only scrys on second spell
>UU04 is a curiosity effect to replace the discard to Escape it
>UU09 new card
>UU10 changed to make the cards more interesting; serpent side now mirrors Clever Tidecreeper which makes the themes hopefully feel a little tighter
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tweaks and changes

>RU02 tweaked to reflect suggestions

forgot to mention:

>UU08 changed to be more flexible
>CU11 changed to add Surge as per a previous suggestion for a Surge counterspell

i think that's everything. tired. hope there's some progress here.
>>
I feel like the Wedges could use some Triome and Apocalypse Charms.

No sure on the Triome Charms. But Apocalypse Charms should be Easy enough.

>Dega Charm (RWB)
>Mode One: Target Creature you control gets +2/+0 until end of Turn and Target Creature your Opponent controls gets -2/-0 Until end of Turn
>Mode Two: Put 3 +1/+1 counters on Target Creature, it has First Trike and "Pay 3 Life: Regenerate"
>Mode Three: Literally just Fervent Charge
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>>85109181
>UU09
Seems like an interesting way to create tokens, but I almost feel like with the current costs, you'd rather pay its mana cost over its Surge cost so you can quickly pump out tokens. Maybe cut the Surge cost and have it bounce itself to hand when you cast your second spell each turn?
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A card I've been thinking of changing recently. Idea is a draw effect that can be triggered by multiple methods: Attacking, crewing, or activating the last ability. Speaking of, last ability is a typical effect for B now, gaining Indestructible and tapping. Basically a replacement for Regenerate. I guess I'm mostly afraid that the overall design is a bit clunky for what it's supposed to do.

>>85109159
Will be comparing to your last post, according to the archive: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/84401361/#84435569
Probably won't comment on cards I thought were fine before and haven't changed.

>CGU04
I was wondering why you changed this, but according to the archive, I suggested you change it to a nested trigger. I guess I was tired. Yeah, I made the wrong call, change it back. Sorry.

>CU02
>CU03
>CU04
I like these changes.

>CU07
Still think I'd prefer the G effect be a Naturalize. But a 3/5 flier for 2GU or 1GU sounds decent too.

>CU09
I feel like you go back and forth on this card a lot. But maybe it's just me. Anyway, Curiosity effects seem to go at uncommon, not common. Plus I'm not sure on the discard aspect. Just feels way worse, especially since Curiosity is only 1 mana in the first place. Also don't like the flavor text because there's not much filtering going on here, though I guess you could say it's referencing the looting.

>CU10
Cool. Minor change, but I'd make remove "you may" and add "up to" to the first mode.

>CU11
Bounce idea is interesting.

>CU13
I assumed this is a reprint because of (R), but I can't find anything that's exactly the same. Anyway, I did find some similar cards, and I do like the idea... but those cards are also uncommon, not common.

Will do the rest later.
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>>85109159
>>85113327
One more thing for now: From the commons, I'm definitely liking the changes you've been making. Feels more focused overall. Draw cards, cast spells, get value. And thanks for sticking with us.
>>
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First time posting a new set. The idea here is the five "Face/Hero" cards of the set with more thematically resonate abilities based around saving/boosting lesser creatures.

Set Story details: in a hell world where humans are prey, a team of 5 planes walkers jump in to save who they can.

Plans for the rest of the set is two colour (allied) based around, creating, exploiting, humans.

Thoughts?
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>>85113891
Face cards shouldn't be uncommons. They should be rare or mythic. And they should be built in such a way that they support the mechanics broadly present in their colors. Frankly, they should be some of the last cards you create. You should work your way up through the commons and uncommons first. Post them, get feedback. See if your mechanics make sense and you're supporting them well. Then afterwards, move onto rares and mythics.

And I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but you really should get a lot more experience designing cards before moving onto a full-blown set. These designs make it very obvious that you're new, and you'll probably have a very hard time finishing a set if you dive headfirst into it right now. I've seen a lot of new creators try creating a set as the first thing they do, and they eventually just get burnt out on the experience and leave. Designing a set is incredibly difficult, and it's honestly something most people just don't have in them to do.

As for these cards... Well, I don't like them, for a number of reasons. Most important is that they don't really fit hybrid mana design. There's a brief explanation on the difference between gold and hybrid cards in the OP image, so I suggest looking at that. There's also a PasteBin article in the OP you might want to look at. And from a flavor perspective, it's incredibly underwhelming that these planeswalkers have no way to gain loyalty counters. Some heroes, if they'll eventually run away, even if nothing is dealing damage to them.
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>>85114943
I think he was inspired by WAR, but then you have to remind to always make sure that uncommons have uncommon complexity and power.
Also, Dominaria was fun to play in drafts.
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>>85115076
I get the WAR inspiration. I mean, these being uncommons just to be uncommon planeswalkers is fine. But I don't feel like they're great face cards. And I get that legends can exist at lower rarities. Dominaria, Neo Kamigawa, Baldur's Gate even. But those sets still have legends at higher rarities. Like, signpost cards are fine, Wizards has been using them for a while now. But those typically aren't face cards.
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>>85113327
>>85109181
>UGU01
Don't see this in the old sheet, but I swear I've seen it before. Regardless, keep it. Maybe add some flavor text.

>UGU03
Flash goes above the enchant line. Card seems good.

>UGU04
I think Flash would go above Surge here. Not sure on the Surge ability. Though looking at the old sheet, I guess this card's never felt super U. Not a huge problem, but it might be worth thinking about. Bounce? Counterspell? Draw?

>UU02
What's the point of this? Feels a bit out of place with everything else. I get it supports the Vehicle theme, but still.

>UU03
>UU04
I like these changes.

>UU06
Think I'd prefer moving the bounce to the activation. Partially so you can't just rack up counters then pay U to create 4/4 tokens.

>UU08
I like the idea, but I feel like this might be a bit pushed for the cost. Specifically, bouncing two creatures. And I don't think there's a great way to line up the bounce cost with the draw cost. I guess this is why Read the Tides has you draw three or bounce two creatures. Maybe use tapdown instead of bounce?

>UU09
Same as before. Think it should work something like Disinformation Campaign. Maybe remove Surge.

>UU10
Seems like a good change on the front. Though the back seems a bit underwhelming. I also wish there were some symmetry with the cost reduction effect, but looking at creatures and lands (or just creatures? Creatures and Vehicles?) feels more G than U.
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>>85115076
>>85115440
I think the concept could work similarly to what they've done with other planeswalkers before, where there's a two versions of the same walker within a set at different rarities. Granted I think that's usually Rare and Mythic rather than Uncommon and anything, but if they're really meant to be that integral to what the set has going on, then I could see it working to have lesser versions of them at uncommon.

>>85113891
The main thing that stands out here is that 'creatures with no abilites' is a pretty tricky theme to make work in an interesting way. I'd also question having both escape and Unearth in the same set, especially sticking Unearth in UB given it grants Haste. The WU walker just feels like it's literally Teferi.
The WG creature is the only one that really feels like it sells the angle of someone who's trying to protect a bunch of humans, although that may also just be due to the color pairing lending itself to that very naturally. As a whole RB and UB don't strike me as colors overly concerned with the general welfare of others.
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>>85115772
>>85109200
>RU02
Seems interesting. Cast for cheap to trigger cost reduction effects, but you only keep its 7/7 body around if you cast another spell first and pay its Surge cost.

>RU04
Why tie the draw to the number of permanents bounced? I thought there would be a payoff like Paradoxical outcome when I was reading it.

>RU05
I wonder how much it would cost to have the "crew using toughness" effect apply to all your Vehicles rather than just itself. Anyway, seems fine overall, but you definitely need to fix your chops. For my MDFCs, I use "0,10," for Level 1 chop.
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>>85114943
>>85115076
>>85115440
>>85115948
Thanks for the feed back guys!
You are right I am new, I'll go back to the drawing board and try re tooling/starting with one off cards cheers!
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>>85116447
By the way, I don't mean any of this to get you to quit your set. Keep the idea around. Just know it's going to be hard to accomplish, especially if you don't have much experience.
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>>85109159
CU09 I'm not sure the wording is quite right, I think maybe "...that player mills a card. When they do, you may draw a card, then discard a card."
CU04 and CGU02 have good chemistry, but CGU02 feels like it might be uncommon tier especially since it hard stops the sets main theme. Good card otherwise. Might want to reduce toughness by 1 or increase cmc by 1.
Like someone said earlier, prowess as it's written kind of fights against some of your cards. I wonder if instead of prowess you wrote it out and just made it to whenever you casted a spell?
CU03 three or more feels really specific.
Other things are looking a lot better now and I'm excited for when you start adding flavor text.

>>85109181
UU01 seems like it could be a common.
UU02 is decent vehicle hate/ support. I like it.
UU09 cross competes with UU06 a little and it's a little unclear on wording. Return the token or the card to hand? I like you using surge more, but this card needs a bit of a buff.
Like how you're mixing up surge a little in terms of play cost as well as bonuses now. I always felt that was underexplored in your previous posts.

>>85109200
RU02 not sure if ebb and flow is place holder or not, but I hear that and think of music more than anything.
RU03 I still have some mixed feelings on and think you might be able to do something cooler with this slot. Card is okay and art is great otherwise.

Overall I think you've made some great changes in general. You're using a lot of enchantments and different creature tokens though.

>>85113327
I like this guy.
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>>85116447
godspeed, I don't have the patience to construct an entire set, I just make one-offs whenever an idea pops into my head
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I just want to say there's been some really cool cards this thread. Well done lads, give yourselves a well deserved pat on the back!
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Only mechanical changes are changing type from Kraken to Crab and changing mana cost from 4BB to 5B. Aesthetic changes mostly, since I saw CU08 of >>85109159 and realized the body was inverted and cost was very similar. So I thought it would be fun if these lined up more. Though finding art of giant, undead crabs has proven very difficult.
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>>85122719
crab
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>>85122719
I'll be honest I kind of liked the kraken more since it had a background.
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>>85113327
If he adds up to to cu10 then it will never be able to mill an opponent since they'll pick 0 most of the time.
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>>85125536
I was thinking
>Up to one target player mills
Though I guess it would be better to use
>You may have target player mill
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>>85124496
Like I said, it's hard finding art for it now. Might revert back to the previous iteration (Kraken) if I can't find something good. Heck, even the last one wasn't easy to find. I was just lucky I had something on-hand.

>>85120765
>I like this guy.
Guess I'll keep it as-is then.

>>85109181
>UU09
Wait, I just realized this might be better as a sorcery that recurs itself from the grave. That way it works with self-mill.
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Starting new thread soon.

>>85125901
>>85109181
Sorry to keep bringing up UU09, but I just keep thinking about it, and I think having it work like pic related would be great. Plays into U's theme, works with self-mill, and helps out UB by providing discard fodder. Though I do agree with the others that the tokens should probably be consolidated so you don't have so many different bodies running around.
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New thread:
>>85126606



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