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Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade – less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/80674659/#80722465

>Previous thread:
>>84463275

>Thread Question:
What's the best OSR retroclone and why is it your shitbrew?
>>
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Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Tag your post with [OC] if you want it archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a city setpiece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
>>
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>>84519457
>>84519452
Hey there. I'm not >>84518583 , but the way you managed to turn his schizoid concept into something that sounds relatively playable is damned impressive. Nice!
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>>84519494
Thanks. I appreciate the kind words. I hope it helps anyone who might need direction.
>>
Bump.
>>
>>84494132 It sounds unfathomably based. Please do keep us updated on your Pleasure Penninsula!
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As sort of a vaguely but not really osr does anyone have advice/experiance/stories about running dcc?
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Retroclones?
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>>84521720
For me, it's gotta be OSE!
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>>84521880
OSE is B/X with better formatting. So Yes!
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>>84521720
OSE is decent. I tend to fall back on the RC as my primary source, but some things (like retainers) are better expressed in B2 and AD&D, so I pick and choose stuff from various sources.
>>
I've never run OSR before, but some of my coworkers have expressed interest in starting an office campaign. I think I'd like to use B/X and create a small setting.

Under the circumstances, do you think it's better to focus on one big megadungeon near the city, or smaller dungeons scattered in the wilderness for which players must explore? I assume a megadungeon saves travel time and sets more consistent expectations, but wouldn't it get boring to go through the same floors over and over again before getting to the new stuff? Likewise smaller dungeons probably offer more variety but travel might take a lot of valuable playtime. What do you think?
>>
>>84522645
No reason you can't do both. You don't have to detail the megadungeon all at once, and you place smaller dungeons and lairs in the area around the hub town/city. Just make sure your players know you aren't planning on a full blown hex crawl. Some of the smaller dungeons and lairs could have connections to the megadungeon (portals, passages, a subterranean river, etc.). Sounds like fun.
>>
>>84522645
>but wouldn't it get boring to go through the same floors over and over again before getting to the new stuff?
Anon, you're supposed to be using shortcuts and alternate entrances. Doors that only open from one side, elevators that can only be activated from their bottom floor, locked entrances/exits, etc. It doesn't matter if you're running the game for your office or not, you really shouldn't be building dungeons that necessitate repeating the same paths over and over again. Or, if you do, your dungeon should be active enough that things change around between the PCs' visits to the dungeon. That's just fundamental dungeon design.
>>
>>84522645
Both is probably the best.
Anyway, time moves faster after exploring the upper floors - only thing that should take longer are random encounters, if any pop up.

Anyway, ideal is a couple small intro dungeons + megadungeon, all relatively near to town.
>>
>>84522645
>do you think it's better to focus on one big megadungeon near the city, or smaller dungeons scattered in the wilderness for which players must explore?
Both. Design some smaller dungeons to have portals to the megadungeon that have to be unlocked and have the levels that the portals are on share architecture both with each other and the level of the megadungeon they connect to.
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While I'm here: has anyone run a campaign setting like Nausicaa, at least insofar as it takes place in the wake of a technological civilization's collapse? I've read that most OSR campaigns imply some kind of collapse (hence why there is valuable treasure squirreled away in dungeons) but it also seems like most assume that civilization was magically advanced rather than technologically advanced. Am I signing up for a headache if I say the monsters were "reshaped like clay" or that players can find laser guns in wrecked airships? Not saying no magic whatsoever, just supplemented by lost technologies.

>>84522706
>>84522724
>>84522948
Maybe there are tools hidden in the periphery dungeons that might make the challenges of the megadungeon more tolerable, from shortcuts to spells and technology?

>>84522722
>That's just fundamental dungeon design.
I haven't put any time into understanding dungeon design yet, so I wasn't sure if that was the expectation. I'm glad to read that shortcuts are good.
>>
Mechanically what is the appeal of OSR systems to you?
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When you've got your megadungeon's concept down, active factions decided, and you need to start mapping how do you... start? Do you just start throwing empty rooms/areas down and stock them with traps/treasure/enemies later? Do you do setpieces? Use some kind of tables?

This is where I am for now essentially where I just started kind of "going." It's a semi-sentient, ancient, empty city that's "growing" out of the earth and has recently broken through the surface a bit within this valley. 1/2/3 are entrances that I'll eventually link into the main portion through loops and branches but I started thinking I was just doing something all wrong. There'll definitely be more homes/shops/etc branching off from the larger plaza/thoroughfare areas like the entrance at 1, which is the immediately obvious "open entrance" though it leads directly into a secret lab area. 2 is a chimney entrance and 3 is just a wall they'd have to break down or open a hole in manually. The full thing will definitely go more north than it is here and there's a massive chasm that goes from the surface to way, way, way beneath the earth up there as well, but the map's just not at that part yet and I wanted to ask how the actual process works before I get much further than "just started."
>>
>>84523059
At a certain point magic and tech cease to have a meaningful difference. You can decide for yourself which items are derived from advanced science or from magic. For the PCs, there isn't a functional difference: a strange apparatus or weapon that functions beyond baseline normal is magical.

Collapsed civilizations are par for the course.

As far as tools or keys or whatnot placed in dungeons and lairs in the overworld that may make the megadungeon more easily navigated or a challenge less so, absolutely. Capital idea.

Shortcuts, one way passages, traps the dump the unwary on other level or return them to the surface are all great.
>>
>>84523293
>just start throwing rooms down
Basically. Pick an entrance, start developing outward. When you place your first room (with the entrance/exit) put it in the center of the page. It'll be easier to get other pages to line up if you do.

If you need inspiration or help, the AD&D DMG has as random dungeon generator. You can ignore corridors and passages if you want and just generate room floor plans, arrange as it suits you, and connect them with passages after the fact.

The dungeon doesn't necessarily have to make sense, since it may be many thousands of years old and occupied several times by different beings who have expanded, collapsed, and extensively modified the ruin. Since your dungeon is a buried city that is "growing", it has an excuse to not follow the logic of spaces being habitable or useful, as it could be "growing wrong". Obviously, you still want it explorable, but it doesn't have to make logical sense for the layout. Monsters and whatnot have just learned to deal with it.
>>
>>84523059
>Am I signing up for a headache
No. absolutely not. Collapsed advanced tech societies are probably the most common OSR-type ancient civilizations, second only to conventional collapsed advanced magic societies.
Now, it can certainly be a headache if you feel like you need to reinvent the wheel with every creature and treasure you add to the game, but otherwise it really just comes down to how you flavor things.
>>
>>84523059
>Maybe there are tools hidden in the periphery dungeons that might make the challenges of the megadungeon more tolerable, from shortcuts to spells and technology?
A level 1 dungeon would lead to a level 2 area of the megadungeon and a level 2 dungeon would lead to a level 3 area etc. This means the players might stumble out of a portal at the bottom of a dungeon they haven't visited yet. I have been giving this idea a lot of thought in the past few days and just have to start mapping things out making the regular dungeons be under landmarks like and old abandoned keep, a ruined Wizards tower and some random caves.
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>>84523059
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks explores a downed spaceship.
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>>84523537
I'll try the DMG's generator, that's probably a good idea.
It's definitely growing wrong. It's the product of an ancient creature, basically a custodian of the now-missing creator-god of the world, who has captured a legendary heroic adventurer wizard and is "reconstructing the world" from the wizard's jumbled and fading memories. The top area is basically the guy's hometown city as he remembers it in its destruction near the end of his life as a mortal, just extremely out of place and not entirely accurate. It's been growing outwards for some time and is sparsely populated by erroneous approximations of its previous denizens gone mad because of their sudden reappearance from the ether and the wizard's inaccurate memories of exactly how that person was, creatures conjured from his memories of adventure, and local inhabitants that have simply moved in to the expanding space full of crazy bullshit and treasure. So I should probably keep "it doesn't have to make sense" in mind. Thanks.
>>
>>84523767
Glad to help.
>>
Is an XP bonus, akin to the bonus you get for a high attribute, a better way to encourage people to pick human then racial level limits?
>>
>>84522645
>but wouldn't it get boring to go through the same floors over and over again before getting to the new stuff?
Not if you're re-stocking the rooms.
>Likewise smaller dungeons probably offer more variety but travel might take a lot of valuable playtime.
They don't all need to be that far.
>>
>>84523767
I am stealing your idea and not crediting you
>>
>>84524155
:(
>>
>>84518299
>>84518964
Many thanks, dudes! I hope it inspires or gets used!

>>84518946
Rocky the Pack Centipede!

>>84521720
OSE's the way to be.
But LL or S&W are both cool too.

>>84524140
Or changing the layout subtly each time!

The case for small dungeons, I think, or dungeons which have small doable sections, is to cater to West Marches play - where you're supposed to get back to base at the end of each session.
>>
>>84524224
No no you don't get it
That's what's supposed to happen
>>
>>84523059
Krull & Yor, Hunter of the Future were out in 1983 and I think those are very OSR style movies.
Heavy Metal from '81 had those vibes too. I like Flash Gordon, though I will mention more on-topic is in pre-production, at one point Conan the Barbarian was going to be post-apocalyptic and the Hyborean Age was to have followed a cataclysm ending our modern era.
>>
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>>84523424
>>84523585
I think I'll make magic directly manipulated by the mind or faith, whereas technology takes the form of a complex and obviously man-made tool even if it can no longer be replicated. At least in a thematic sense. Or maybe I will just go 100% sufficiently advanced.

>>84523684
>>84524482
Thanks, I'll take a look at these. Also inspired by Thundarr the Barbarian and Breath of the Wild. Any others?
>>
I'm tweaking around some shit, and I was thinking about how tedious Prime Requisite %s are to keep track of, but also how undeniable their impact to the growth of a class is in the long run.

What if instead of applying the % shift to the xp GAIN of characters, it was applied to the xp REQUIREMENT to level up?
That way if a character that needs 60000 to to to reach level 8 had a -10% from his prime requisite, instead of losing 10% xp every time they tally xp they'd need to rack up 66000 xp instead.
>>
Old school essentials campaign where everyone is a prostitute and they belong to a fantasy brothel.
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>>84525900
masturbate before posting.
>>
>>84525900
>Old school essentials
cringe

>AD&D campaign where everyone is a prostitute and they belong to a fantasy brothel.
I will now play your campaign
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>>84525530
I doubt it would break anything. The simplification of book keeping is almost always preferable in my book.
>>
how do I dissuade my players from just killing my RE4 merchant expy who just kind of rats around in the megadungeon with a shop and as a random encounter
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>>84526203
if he occasionally has something particularly useful, or just cool, on hand after doing so much business, his long term value exceeds the immediate benefit of killing and looting him.
>>
>>84526203
have him never show his full inventory of wares and just scooch in and out of the shadows with new shit every now and again, keeping him mysterious
also make him a valuable information broker
that way you can't full loot him if you kill him on sight, and he can't give you any useful tips if he's dead
>>
>>84525967
No.
>>
>>84526203
He could be a jinn. He can escape easily if he wants, can transport his wares to the buyer from the Elemental Plane he would normall reside in, and produce illusions of his wares to entice potential buyers. Fighting him or trying to kill him will be difficult, and even if unsuccessful, he stops buying or selling from the PCs.
>>
>>84526297
Addition: If that's too powerful or you feel takes away from player agency, have the merchant have henchmen/bodyguards so robbing him becomes a bigger hassle than shanking one poor crazy bastard in the dark.
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>>84520708
>orcs are disgusting because of brown skin
bro, I'm not mad at the SJWs changing DnD lore anymore...
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>>84526203
Have him be a pleasant fellow
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When running RC games, do you do anything about Invisibility's unlimited duration?
I was thinking limiting it to ending whenever the caster refills the spellslot used to cast it.
At the same time, I wonder if random wilderness encounters aren't enough to make it infeasible to camp and cloak the whole party before entering the dungeon. At the same time, I wonder if that (and possible subsequential pc deaths) wouldn't get tedious.
>>
>>84526982
I would probably check other versions of the spell in other editions and settle for what suits my tastes. Unlimited duration invisibility for a single spell slot just seems silly to me.
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>>84527040
it works the same way in every early edition, 0ed, 1ed, the various basics, and OSE. BFRPG caps the duration at 24h.
>>
>>84527167
>BFRPG caps the duration at 24h.
This bit's taken from 2e, I think.
>>
Is Underdark exploration better served by a hexcrawl or pointcrawl?
>>
>>84527369
>exploration
hexcrawl.
>>
>>84527369
when I think Underdark I think monotonous, confusing tunnels interspersed with strange encounters, colossal caverns, and outposts worse than being lost. the pointcrawl is designed to connect interesting locations floating in a soup of background travel, so I think it applies here.

Alexandrian discusses hexcrawling in the Underdark and highlights some of the challenges
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/35565/roleplaying-games/thought-of-the-day-hexcrawl-in-the-underdark
>>
>>84526003
No stats just roll on the prostitute table in the DMG and start playing
>>
>>84523248
Not wasting time on shit like character builds, quick combat, very little reason to stop n' browse rulebooks midgame.
>>
Rolled 3, 5, 4, 5, 4, 5, 1, 6, 2, 6, 2, 3, 5, 3, 5, 6, 5, 1 = 71 (18d6)

>>84528395
there I'm done building my character
>>
>>84527577
>No stats
If there aren't stats for pleasure Ogers I aint playing.
>>
>>84524873
Wizards (1977), the Ralph Bakshi animated movie.
There's a lot of '80s sword and sorcery movies that may have bits in part that would inspire also.
Also take a look at 'Wolf's Rain' for a Dying Earth take.
>>
>>84522608
RC? Haven't heard of it but I'm curious. Why do you enjoy that system?
>>
>>84529739
You haven't heard of Rules Cyclopedia?
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>>84523684
DA3 "City of the Gods" for D&D has an entire spaceship. The related module, DA2 "Temple of the Frog" also involves tech from said space ship.
>>
>>84521652
I am finishing up my campaign, and I have got to say, its an RPG for people who like to roll dice. There are so many cool ideas, my players liked how the crit tables worked an the mighty deed dice, but when it came time to roll for any spellcasting or magic, things just got too bloated with dice rolls. The idea of scaling spells that gradually do cooler things the higher your roll and level are is interesting, but by the end you wish you could just go back to spells that did one thing and not have to consult a 2 page chart every time you cast magic missile. If you want to homebrew things like spells or patrons, good luck. The game wants you to add onto it, but creating custom content for DCC is kind of a chore.
I had fun with DCC and it led to my most interesting campaign so far, but after playing through it, I need to go back to something a little more traditional. Take what you like from DCC, because there is a whole to like, and feel free to modify the game as you see fit. Some aspects of it are purposefully vague on contradictory because the designers fully intended people to change it and use rules they like better
>>
>>84527369
I like that cave crawl method from Veins of the Earth myself but I think you need to be at least partially on the spectrum to be able to understand it
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>>84529755
NAYRT but every time I see RC in these threads for some reason I think RuneCuest and have to remind myself of Rules Cyclopedia.
>>
>>84529739
The Rules Cyclopedia is basically a reference manual for Basic, Expert, Champion, and Master with some Immortals rules.

I like it because I can design my hexcrawls to accomodate domain play, and it has mass combat rules if I want them. It has weapon mastery rules if Zi want them. It has spells above level 6 if I want them, etc.

As I mentioned, I plug in rules from other D&D variants if they suit me better.

The RC+1e/2e bits I like is my preferred foundation for rules. I like OSE, but I tend to reference my RC more often.
>>
Anyone know of a product that puts every monster from a B/X retroclone bestiary on a small card for easy reference at the table?

I'm aware of the 2e monster cards, I would like something usable at the table, otherwise I'm probably going to have to start creating my own. Running an analog game has its pitfalls.
>>
>>84531550
>The Rules Cyclopedia is basically a reference manual for Basic, Expert, Champion, and Master with some Immortals rules.
Well, yes and no. It's got plenty of changes, some of which make a profound difference. Withdrawing from combat is a big one, going from the classic half movement down to a useless five feet.
>>
>>84531696
>>84531702
Damn /5eg/ finally starting to no cap get it, fr fr.
>>
>>84531701
Like I said, I pull some things I don't care for. The RC isn't perfect, no version of early D&D can be all things to all people.
>>
>>84519408
can anyone suggest stats for Triffids? from the book and tv/film?

"tall, venomous, carnivorous plants capable of locomotion"

some weaker treant with regeneration, poison attack?
>>
Any of you good at improvising from an unstocked dungeon map at the table? Any helpful tools for tracking/stocking things?
>>
>>84532027
Stats as bear, go from there

>>84532370
Well, here's this for starters.
https://oldschoolessentials.necroticgnome.com/generators/dungeon-encounter-generator
>>
>>84519408
Anyone got any good modules I can read? I just like reading them.
>>
>>84532027
I'm not sure about regeneration, at least not in terms of combat rounds.

Give them an attack with limited reach, useable X amount of times/Day (There are a a few occasions in the book where a triffit is 'dry' from stinging a lot). 15'-20' perhaps?
Move should be fairly slow.
They seem to be physically tough, however.
Easy to hit but a decent amount of HP seems appropriate.
>>
>>84532616
B10, "Night's Dark Terror" is a given.

CM1 "Test of the Warlords" is very bare-bones but could interest you, if you're into the whole 'ruling a domain'-thing.
>>
>>84531701
this change and some of the others are considered errors. it might have been hard to tell in the 90s, but today there is this great errata document built from earlier fan-compiled and TSR erratum. We played out of a real copy of the RC recently to check it out and were affected by this Fighting Withdrawal rule - it stinks! You ought to fix/change it in your own RC games.

>>84531550
Rules Cyclopedia is great for its comprehensiveness, but because of the editing problems and inclusion of every wacky mechanic from the CMI part of BECMI it works best with some house rules or changes. Yours is the way.

http://tinyvast.com/RCerrata/files/RulesCyclopediaErrata&Companion_v34.html
>>
>>84531356
Yeah, me too. It's weird. Probably because I started out with RuneQuest and moved to D&D and derivatives later on.
>>
>>84532616
B2 Keep on the Borderlands
B4 The Lost City
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan

>>84532637
>CM1
Always was curious about this one.
>>
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>>84532027
>>
What are some alternatives to race-as-class and level-limits to encourage a primarily-human setting?
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>>84536020
If you're using a system with race as race just have them roll for that when they're rolling their stats and put it on a bellcurve heavily leaning human.
>>
>>84536020
Racial animosities
It doesn't matter how high your gnome's charisma is, kobolds are gonna go apeshit when they see him and try to kill anyone with him
>>
>>84536020
Are you trying to get your players to mostly play as humans? Just tell them they can't play as demihumans until they run a character to level four (or w/e) or until they find willing demihumans in the campaign itself willing to join the adventurers.
>>
>>84536020
Give the fighter +1 melee to-hit and damage
>>
>>84536187
I did this with goblins and halflings because I like halflings as setting dressing but not as adventurers. Goblins, while normally extremely shitty little dudes, are at least somewhat pliable to diplomacy if they aren't in the company of orcs (that they don't want to betray yet). You can pay a goblin off, or lie to him about something he wants being somewhere else, or scare them off, or whatever. But if goblins see any halflings they fly into a rage. In a goblin's mind everything wrong with the world is because halflings did it. Bad day? Orcs being abusive? Bowstrings keep breaking? Bread's all moldy? It's the FUCKING halflings. A delirious ranting raving tirade of crimes both real and imagined, petty or otherwise, leveled against all halflings and the only fitting punishment is death. It's on a base instinctual level with no exceptions.
The lore reasoning is because goblins crawl out of pots of rot and filth, usually maintained by other goblins, but they can also happen if someone just forgets they left the stew out or whatever. Any metal cauldron full of nasty crap will eventually start spitting out goblins with strains unique to the contents of the crucible. And halflings always leave empty pots because they are fat fucks, and have a general no-waste reverence for food.
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im souring on classes and especially scaling hp bros
im thinking of just running mythras going forward but with lotfp/osr content, any tips/suggestions for building more dungeon crawl procedures into this?
>>
Anyone run a campaign in more of a semi-arid to desert environment? How did it change things from the typical ye olde English forests campaign? How should it change things?
>>
>>84536673
Just use the dungeon crawling procedures from lotfp. Don't make it hard on yourself.
>>
>>84536673
You know, I really wonder about the psychology of "people" like (You)
It's kinda like going into a WoD or GURPS thread and saying "well I'm tired of classless skill-based systems, I think I'll just run AD&D with converted content"
>>
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Looking for more content for a game I'm prepping. I'm planning to start w/ Tomb of the Serpent Kings, and then letting them explore a hex map. Any ideas?
I know I'm throwing the Keep on the Borderlands in there.
>>
>>84531729
Fighting-Man and Magic-Using-Woman should be the only classes
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>>84537005
Start with the good one first and put the bad one on the hexmap, not the other way around
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>>84521652
I've been running it for about 3 years. Run 2 big campaigns: one about 9 months long and another about a year & 1/2, plus tons of convention one shots.

Give players handouts/print outs of their spells so they can look up results quickly. Use the dice chain for situational advantages. Go with the flow and use special rulings to help keep the fun going. Check out podcasts like Spellburn and Glowburn and check out the Goodman Games YouTube channel for some of the "advice" type panel videos.
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>>84536887
>You know, I really wonder about the psychology of "people" like (You)
You should spend less time thinking about your betters, it's unhealthy in general.
>WOD
>AD&D with converted content
I'd respond with this (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/297833/Esoteric-Enterprises--Complete) as a start.
>>84536844
Yeah you're probably right.
>>
>>84537005
Both Keep and TotSK are meant to be introductory dungeons. Might be kind of redundant/boring to include both in the same campaign.
Keep definitely requires more prep but it gives you a starting area as well as a dungeon. TotSK is just a dungeon, and while it does a decent job of introducing the ins and outs of "OSR" dungeons it has a few idiosyncrasies — namely the linearity of the starting areas and the lack of random encounters — that makes it a bit contentious. Also Keep is intended for new DMs whereas TotSK is intended for experienced DMs introducing the game to new players.
I know this is unrelated to your question, so make of my input what you will.
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Just start thieves' abilities at lvl 3 (pic related) and give them "skill points" to increase the level of individual abilities when they generate a PC.
Simple as.
The question is how many skill points and should they be tied to ability score modifiers?
>>
>>84537274
I had an idea similar to this.
The way I do thieves now, each skill starts at a 2:12 chance and thieves get 8 points to distribute at first level, and 4 with each subsequent level.
Originally though, I had a thought to start each skill at 15:100 and give 65 points to distribute at first level, 30 on each subsequent level, with the added feature that once per session a thief that fails a skill roll can add one point to it as long as the score is below 50:100. I chose not to do this though because it seemed needlessly fiddly and no one cares about preserving the d100 as the thief skill dice as much as I do.
>>
Quick question: did anyone ever made a Kai Lord (from the Lone Wolf books) class?
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>>84537419
I don't like thieves assigning skill points every level. Only at character gen, from there each skill advances down its column once per level. Other wise you'll have thieves with a 12-12 chance in their favorite skill at level 2.
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>>84536809
You'd need more water, for one.
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>>84537005
>Any ideas?
Run a better module.
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>>84539202
TotSK into B4 is not a bad sequence.
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>>84538788
I don't let any skill go above 11:12.
>you'll have thieves with a 12-12 chance in their favorite skill at level 2
The people in my group don't play that way, and even if they did that would be their choice to make
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Is it just me or are the 1e Oriental Adventures classes underpowered relative to PHB and UA classes?
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>>84519408
Would you consider allowing "fighting retreats"?
Like, you dont disengage from a fow, but you move at a very reduced speed, say 10 feet WHILE staying in combat with the opponent if they choose to move with you. using it to reposition your group.
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>>84537005
dont listen to the other people, tosk is the best starter dungeon by a good mile.
Nail the basalisk room for a really memorable dungeon.
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>>84539911
>>84537158
Fuck off skerples
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Anyone per chance have this PDF? I looked at the share thread someone pointed me to the O-S-R but i went there and under the OSE folder i found nothing, so maybe someone has it here, i just need it because my players want to fuck about the Fae Realm this is just the thing to show them the next step of OSR.
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Fuckin caved an bought morkbork. Anyone tried it? How was your experience?
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>>84540432
i honestly can't remember much probably because of the the booze and drugs
we had fun though and smashed a penis tailed bear wryvren i think
apparently we were gaming for 16 hours straight witch is a new record for me but i can't remember anything that happened before the hangover
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>>84537158
Totsk does have encounters though, just in the farther part, which spread to the first part when they defeat the stone guardian. I also introduced encounters from surface creatures getting inside when the players returned there later.

>>84540464
Playing drunk and/or high does seem appropriate for the game.
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>>84535737
wow, thanks
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>>84519408
what kind of rules do you guys use for torch/lantern and light sources when the party goes exploring and during combat?

Are they routinely targeted? How do i make it no cumbersome for the players but still part of combat in dark places?
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>>84519408
Advanced Labyrinth Lord is essentially B/X with options to add elements of Advanced. The rules are stated clearly despite being somewhat disorganized. The art is flavorful and captures the 70's zeitgeist from what I can tell. I've ran Ravenloft, Ghost Tower of Inverness, Against the Slave Lords, The Secret of Bone Hill, Tomb of Horrors, and The Temple of the Frog with this rule set.
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Anyone try converting an OSR system from Thac0 to an ascending "to hit" bonus? I'm thinking about deriving bonuses from attack matrices so that my new group can more easily play the game.
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>>84523248
Honestly, the flavor first and foremost. Sounds weird, granted that OSR tends to be everything from dark fantasy to gonzo space faring. I like the original character archetypes present in the classes of AD&D. Each class has its defined strengths, weaknesses, and motifs which encourages you fullfill a role in a group and also play a distinct playstyle(paladin plays way differently from a wizard). 5th edition classes almost all have spells, and if they don't have spells then they have a subclass that does. That and the character archetypes become as mud because of these subclasses. A Gloom Stalker Ranger is a rogue ranger, a Fanatic Barbarian is a cleric barbarian, an Eldritch Knight is a wizard fighter. It's like multi classing is built into the game as opposed to being an option that comes with its own set of advantages and drawbacks. I prefer classical archetypes facing unusual circumstances.
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What do you think the fantasy level of your average village should be? I feel like the implied setting of soemthing like DnD 5e is more geared toward things like shops where there are a few enchanted glass eyes around that watch for thefts and the like. Whereas an OSR settings shop should not have those things. I'm not sure why. Just seems higher fantasy. I like comfy small villages and I collected tons of such maps online. But I also like the coldness implied by a lot of old school art, dungeon synth set, art with weird German names. I really like that style as well. Am I just arbitrarily assigned aesthetics and millieu expectations in my head or am i justified in this?
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>>84523293
I use map generators, edit the maps to taste, fill the rooms with stuff(dmg is helpful here), then stack the maps on top of eachother and bam! You've got a dungeon.
>>
Cap invisibility by making it only work on the organism, not the stuff it is wearing or weilding. If you really want to be invisible you have to be naked. It makes sense if you really think about it.
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>>84543066
Tons of 1st level TSR adventures have magic items lying around like candy, even if they aren't sold in shops. TSR D&D has never really been "low magic".

Personally, I'm a fan of an iron-age setting and treating +1 weapons/armor as steel, and healing potions are just mead or something.
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>>84543066
Justified. Adventurer's guilds and magick item shops are ludicrous.
>>
I know feats suck ass and combat is supposed to be snappy, but how do you handle "maneuvers" like called shots, disarming, tripping, tackling, ensnaring with nets, etc ?
just an opposed save ? should you be able to do that as an add-on to an attack or should it not do damage if you succeed at this kind of move ?
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>>84543281
I would handle it as a roll to hit, no damage but probably a sort of stat ST to avoid begin disarmed or getting caught in a net.
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>>84543132
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>>84543281
There's all kinds of ways to do it. I personally love this DCC-style take on it. Makes fighters especially good since they don't have to choose between damage and cool effects.

Higher the roll, the more effective the maneuver.
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>>84542899
>Anyone try converting an OSR system from Thac0 to an ascending "to hit" bonus?
No, no one has ever done it
Good luck WOTCuck
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>>84542899
BFRPG and OSE have it.
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>>84543574
>>84543281
Here's another way
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>>84539266
Running 2 intro modules in a row is a bad sequence.
Totsk is not a good intro module to boot.
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>>84540432
Shit game and also not OSR to boot. If you're going to play a fake OSR game try Sharp Swords and Sinister Spells and at least get something usable.
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>>84543066
Whatever works for you is what's correct.
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>>84543066
You're justified to have whatever milieu you desire, though magic items are plentiful in OSR games based solely on the treasure generation rules alone.

Something to consider is that magic shops don't make sense, even in large cities because magic items are lateral power that allows mortals to accomplish things they could not otherwise. Most people wouldn't give them up for coin unless they were in dire straights and could not think of a way to use the item to get out of their predicament.

The most likely source of buying or selling magic items would be among established adventurers (and I encourage referees to create rival companies or parties) or rulers and settled wizards. And here it might be that they offer an item they have for a service, as tribute, in compension for a magic item the PCs have, payment for a magic item created, or simply as gifts among peers (like the Greek heroes used to do).

You could have magic item shops, but it reduces magic items to a mundane commodity to be bought or sold. Even +1 swords are useful as gifts to retainers, gifts to the local lord, or might be repurposed by a dwarven smith to be turned into something else.
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>>84539202
This list still has TotSK on it
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>>84543791
Having them work like exclusive art auctions makes more sense than just magic item shops. Which also probably means that magic item sales/auctions serve as a means of tax evasion and money laundering.
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>>84543429
>>84543574
>>84543599
and here I was worried I'd only get a resounding FOEGYG! in lieu of reply
appreciate the input
first reply seems the easiest and most straightforward
I'm curious about DCC and whether this is something the warrior gets on all attacks or resource dice they "spend" for moves
and the last approach is probably what I'd have gone for by instinct (although the example given is a damaging move but whatever)
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>>84543843
In DCC there's no resources involved. Fighters can always do it and that's what makes 'em cool. I guess if you get snake eyes you can fuck em over or something along these lines

What's cool about it is that you can use it to adjudicate just about any combat-related maneuver
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>>84543791
>>84543781
Not necessarily magic item SHOPS but just shops that might have magic items like magic glass eyes in the wall they can notice following them as they shop. Wouldn't be common but maybe one shop in this town as an unusual feature has it.
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>>84543842
It would depend on your milieu, but more cosmopolitan locales could have such auctions. Still, magic items are lateral power, and not simply expensive pieces to display or keep in storage. Magic rings, amulets, capes, boots, and other clothing items could be worn openly and grant the owner abilities they may find useless. Items they can use (wrong race, class, etc.) can be bargaining power. I digress. It's possible, even plausible.
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Fighter is the entire reason to play DCC desu
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>>84519408
Gary expected everyone to make their 'own game'. he was explicit about it in the AD&D 1e PHB.
Page 8 he flat out states that two campaigns compatible enough to be able to share characters are going to be rare.
Think about that for a minute.
In 1978 his opinion was
>everyone's gonna have their own shitbrew and its gonna' be lit
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>>84543888
*find useful... Boy I flubbed that.

>>84543880
I don't know that I would want that in my milieu. An item that allows surveillance would be put to better use than preventing sticky fingered adventurers.
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>>84543867
unfathomably based, I've been meaning to check it out for a while, but this pretty much seals the deal
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>trading items you don't need (spare +1 weapons etc) to NPC wizards in exchange for scrolls and magical services.

Seems reasonable to me.
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>>84544192
>trusting a wizard
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Thoughts on this? Is this proof they are not OSR?
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>>84544215
Gygax's quote seems something to aspire to. I always wanted to run long campaigns where PCs would pass on their legacy to new characters, and the game would evolve with the players over time. Old characters would become domain rulers and sponser new parties of low level adventurers to head off into the new borderlands to civilize them, beginning the cycle anew.

Oh well. An aging referee can dream.
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>>84544215
I think this rebuttal sums it up.
That guy wanted all the fruits of a long, well-run campaign but didn't want to wait. So he mimics one.
But it isn't anything like Chess anymore. Just like what they are doing is nothing like D&D
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>>84544215
The BrOSR just seems a contrarian reaction to nuSR
>"conservative" instead of "liberal"
>AD&D BTB RAW instead of stripped down minimalist old-school in spirit shitbrews
>neither of them actually read the fucking books but insist they're playing it how it was meant to be played
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>>84544215
>Have you ever ran a campaign like that?
No, I speak English so I have run a campaign like that. Many, actually.
It takes 4-7 years to get to the point that diligent players are reaching domain level and another 2-4 years for them to mature into their domain. Real World years.
This guy sounds like someone in his second year of little league telling people how the MLB *ought* to do things.
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>>84544215
I don't care about annoying BAP imitators.
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>>84544520
pretty much. I think my favorite was the guy that admitted that after a few weeks keeping track of XP and level was 'too hard' so he just lets his players decide when they should level up.
But he calls Lew Pulsipher a 'failure' because he thinks modifying AD&D 1e's training rules is OK
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>>84544520
>neither of them actually read the fucking books but insist they're playing it how it was meant to be played
Sounds like the trve 80s D&D table experience to me
>>
FUCK OFF WITH YOUR E-CELEB BULLSHIT
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>>84544215
Someone explain this Patron thing to me. That quote from the PHB is clearly talking about having multiple player characters at varying stages of power, I can't fathom what a Patron is supposed to be or how it fits into this idea.
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>>84543281
Contested HD rolls. If a player tries to do whatever to a creature, they roll a d6+their level and the creature rolls d6+(number of) HD. If the player rolls higher, the maneuver is pulled off. Vice versa for creatures attempting to do a maneuver on players.
Fighters can do a maneuver and attack in the same round a number of times per battle equal to their level.
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>>84544676
The BrOSR version of it is you get someone not in the game and say "hey if you were the orc chieftain what would you do about X if your resources are Y"

It's essentially crowdsourcing DM help
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>>84543917
I wonder if you can pinpoint the moment when Gygax turned from a homebrew loving hobbiest to a businessman ranting about how only content written by TSR was "true D&D".
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>>84543843
I agree that not making it a "subsystem" is probably best, just treat it as a skill check/to hit with a relivent dc. Hitting someone in the eye is probably harder to do than a regular attack, so the target number is harder. While kicking someone back is maybe easier. Make it on the fly. I actually tend to establish target numbers instead of opposed roles for convienience.
>>84543867
I dont like the feat die. adds an unnecissary mechanic. IMO, say what you want to do and dom makes an apropriate number to hit. Also, I think if you are going to make it a seperate thing, I think Knave actually did good on its idea of "stunts". You can either attack or do some menuover, but instead of having a "feat die", if you get a natural 20, you can decide to both do damage and some stunt.
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>>84544842
About Dragon magazine #86. Gut feeling
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>>84544734
Yeah, and session reports show that pretty soon the patrons take over the campaign. 1st and 2nd level PCs can't compete with a necromancer with an army
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>>84545333
I'd guess it started with the troubles he had with Arneson, and then reached boiling point with "Hollywood Gary" and the proliferation of heartbreakers and competing fantasy games.
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>>84545340
Not really surprising
If you're going to have super high level characters running around they need to be checked by other high level characters
A lot of fantasy struggles with this. Taking a step back and asking why hyper God level guy didn't intervene earlier breaks many stories
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>>84544620
Where is an e-celeb?
I see a discussion of house rules and reasons why a guy made them
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I think the recent bro ha ha points out that there a lot of people who WANT a big, well-run, sprawling campaign with lot of characters, PCs that have domained, etc. but very few are willing to do the work to actually MAKE one.
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>>84545500
that brosr shit is beyond cringe
fuck off back to plebbit, faggot
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>>84544326
>I always wanted to run long campaigns where PCs would pass on their legacy to new characters, and the game would evolve with the players over time
This is literally the biggest reason I got into OSR.
No point in kingdom building or heritage if the PCs become deities at the end of every campaign.
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>>84543917
We should call it litbrew.
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>>84546332
My litbrew has laser pistols and rocket ships.
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>>84546592
So does S3
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>>84547194
I am going to add a dimensional hexcrawl involving Lizardmen with rayguns fighting psychic Androids to my megadungeon and there is nothing you can do about it.
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What am I supposed to think of random encounter tables in the various B/X clones' core books? Half the outcomes are a TPK.
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>>84547407
Reaction rolls, nigger

Failing that, hirelings

Failing that, at least one wizard with Sleep
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>>84547479
>Reaction rolls, nigger
It makes no sense that every monster would go through a reaction roll. I've never seen anybody do this.
>Failing that, hirelings
At level one?
>Failing that, at least one wizard with Sleep
This is retarded.
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>>84547407
After determining reaction, encounter distance, if that cloud giant still wants to kill you, you'd better fucking run
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>>84547587
So encounters don't really imply that you have to engage? If the level 1 party sees a green dragon minding his business somewhere, they should have the option to just avoid it? At least according to RAW.
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>>84546332
>litbrew
I thought a litbrew was when you put your own spin on an established setting.
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>>84547407
What? Are you referring to any clone in particular? The ones I have seen are fine. Some just lift the encounters straight from BX
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>>84547647
>So encounters don't really imply that you have to engage? If the level 1 party sees a green dragon minding his business somewhere, they should have the option to just avoid it? At least according to RAW.
Please for the love of god read the system books before jumping to a conclusion.
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>>84547407
>Half the outcomes are a TPK
Then you avoid it.
>>84547517
>hirelings
>At level one?
They're really cheap.
>>84547517
>Sleep
>This is retarded.
It is a powerful spell, usually doesn't have a save, but yeah, doesn't work on higher HD monsters and it shouldn't be a given.
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>>84547737
>It is a powerful spell
I know but "hope that you have a wizard with Sleep" is stupid
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>>84547517
If you're going to roll on the B/X encounter table you should use the B/X encounter rules which include a reaction roll. If every encounter was a fight the game would be a depressing meatgrinder. Wait, are you telling me it already has this reputation?

>>84547647
discretion is the better part of valor, especially for level 1-2 characters.

>>84547407
If you fight every encounter you will die. A big part of the fun in old school play is the lengths players go to avoid combat or create a tilted and unfair combat to their advantage, especially at lower levels.
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>>84547755
you should always hope you have a wizard with Sleep though. it's the best 1st level spell and a huge boon to the party.
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>>84547763
Nobody uses these rules! So the answer is that people who run games are just inept?
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>>84547799
>nobody uses those rules
Speak for yourself.
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>>84547799
I always use reactions if it makes sense. If that fails

>leave burning pool of oil then run

Usually works.
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>>84547840
Or dropping caltrops, or marbles, or spiking doors shut behind you if you have enough distance already.
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>>84547799
>these encounter tables look OP
"yea, you're supposed to use reaction rolls"
>nobody uses those rules
Okay retard.
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>>84547883
I'm not the one running games.
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>>84547891
Then put your actual thoughts into writing so we understand. Now tell your DM that the pimple pirates from a mongolian underwater basket weaving forum said he is retarded and needs to use reaction rolls or else he is FOE and should GYG.
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>>84547647
Of course, why not?
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Reaction rolls are one of the mechanics that drew me into OSR. Makes alot more sense then having the player's roll charisma and try to "mother may I" with the DM because they rolled high. Reaction rolls rightfully put the dice and the decision making into the DM's hands.
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>>84548497
party face is one of the most important roles. you gotta be getting that +1 every reaction roll for your good health. Never losing on snake eyes and tripling the chance of enthusiastic friendship is a big change to the party's experience. Resisting the first -1 malus is just as good.

Charisma is not a dump stat
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What is your favorite OSR game? I want to try out something in the realm of OSR that's been published in the last two decades. Any of them worth playing?
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>>84543917
That's putting a worshipful spin on it. In April '76 Gary didn't like it if you messed with his rules:

"I know of the games played at CalTech where the rules have been expanded and changed to reflect incredibly high levels, comic book characters and spells, and so on. Okay. Different strokes for different folks, but that is not D & D. While D & D is pretty flexible, that sort of thing stretches it too far, and the boys out there are playing something entirely different — perhaps their own name “Dungeons & Beavers," tells it best." - Strat Review Vol. 2, No. 2

It's a pretty good article generally, but dude was schizo about a lot of his game advice.
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>>84549083
BFRPG
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>>84549083
Seven Voyages of Zylarthen
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>>84549432
based fantasy rpg
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>>84547799
Everyone uses these rules. Except, of course, for (you).

But seriously, if you genuinely believe that "nobody" uses these rules, I recommend broadening the scope of your OSR-content intake. Old forums, blogs (both OG and NuSR), thread archives, hell even on Twitter—everywhere people are and have been talking about reactions, negotiating with creatures, chases and pursuit, etc. People absolutely use these rules, and you should too.
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>>84548497
> Makes alot more sense then having the player's roll charisma and try to "mother may I" with the DM because they rolled high. Reaction rolls rightfully put the dice and the decision making into the DM's hands
Wait until he finds out what stat modifies reaction rolls.

Also even in nuskool D&D the DM is the one who is supposed to call for rolls; the players don't do it themselves. I agree though that the mother may I thing is cancer and inextricably tied to 5e whether in the rules or not
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>>84549083
LotFP
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>>84549902
>Also even in nuskool D&D the DM is the one who is supposed to call for rolls; the players don't do it themselves.
I know. My point was nuskool charisma checks make the players feel like it's all about their PCs performance, their dice roll. When in reality it's still just the DMs choice. This is where the "mother may I" comes in.
>b-but I rolled high that means I can sleep with the kings wife like I asked right?
Reaction Rolls do not imply this at all. The dice are in the DMs hands and everything hinges on the reaction to what the PC says. It's in the name, Reaction Roll.
>can I sleep your wife?
*Rolls a perfect 12*
>the king laughs uncontrollably for a moment, he thinks you're joking with him.
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>>84550436
Ahh I see what you mean. That's well said; I completely agree.
>>
I can't tell if the guy who made a dozen different almanacs of 7 years worth of weather is based or cringe
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>>84539368
Basic 81 had Fighting Withdrawals, half speed backward and still allowing your attack action, mainly used for repositioning or backing out of a room without going full Pursuit & Evasion.
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>>84547737
Nta, though where are the cheap hireling prices noted at?
Seems expensive as all hell to even advertise recruiting them in the 1e DMG and then you need the gold to hire them, arm them and also feed them...
Like, how cheap is cheap considering the post was talking on Lv.1 PCs originally?
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>>84521652
I've been running, and playing in, a "campaign" that has lasted for 4 years. I've created a custom website to wikify everything since the information load (my holdings, equipment, characters, special abilities, etc.,) have become somewhat of a burden so I'm hoping to become more organized. I don't find the things that >>84531027 complained about to be a problem in my game, and we've gotten quite fast on determining outcome. Ummmm, also, fuck elves.
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>>84549083
For me it's gotta be OSE!
>>
Is anyone else constantly getting driven out of discussing OSR online (and /tg/ in general) by the sheer amount of shilling going on ?
I got into all of this because of homebrews and absolutely assumed everyone made his own shitty world and characters and story, it's a bit alien to me why you would get into running modules, what's driving people towards that instead of making an original story ?
Between the "run X, Y, Z modules with X set of rules exactly as Gygax intended in X snippet from a 40 years old magazine" crowd and the twitter patreon zombies who will litterally buy anything that looks artsy just so they can shelve it and feel good about it, I feel a bit lost sonetimes
sorry for blogposting, have a cursed item
>Book of memory
>Anything written in the book is instantly rememberable by its owner, be it spells, cyphers, but also scenes from other people's memories, which the owner of the book can remember as if they were his own
>As time passes memories not written in the book will start to fade away
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>>84552689
Well, it depends on the person innit? Sometime a module just looks cool so you wanna save some time. Sometime you mix personal content with readymades. It's all good!
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>>84551039
Autistic, But based.
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>>84552689
The pernicious effect of the grifter influx post 2011 killed the osr, fuck all of them
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>>84552689
The old modules are good for teaching DM duties, and creating player expectations for those who are new. People should branch out and make their own stuff, but if you're busy, changing the set dressing on an existing module is typically less work.

I have an old dungeon from before I learned about Jacquaying dungeons, and all the other good referee advice that I didn't know that I'm (slowly) nudging into some semblance of playability, but it has a ways to go. It needs work yet to be rehabilitated.
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>>84549902
>Wait until he finds out what stat modifies reaction rolls.
Only if you want it to. I don't give a shit what it says on your character sheet, only your words can ever influence adjustment.
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>>84552689
I am a hoarder so I hoard the artsy books.

Genuinely enjoy /tg/ discussion though. Something to do between actually playing games.
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>>84543615
>>84539202
I keep seeing TotSK bad mouthed in this thread, what is it that makes it so bad? Is it mechanically flawed somehow?
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>>84554142
It's popular, therefore bad.
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>>84554142
there's already an explanation as to why in that reply chain
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>>84554142
Overly linear introduction.
Lack of random encounters in the initial section.
Overly patronizing 'the players are idiots so you have teach them like its mario and you're a soccer mom' approach.
Badly made encounters after that that are lacking reaction based factions.
Treasure is all kinds of wrong, basically built for glog.
Has a fun idea with the basilisk and the hammer. That's about it. Almost all of the other introductions are much better.
Tomb Raiders on the Crystal Frontier and Through Ultan's Door aren't on that list but they are both much better at specifically all the things totsk is lauded for.
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>>84523059
The thing why we don’t see this as much in a lot of osr type games
Is a collapsed technological civilisation would still affect the technological capabilities and tech level of peoples who remained afterwords even if population numbers were only around medieval levels
A lot of seemingly advanced tech can actually be made by hand with good knowledge skill and care with a classic example in that regard being guns and bullets
A lot of this would shift such a game somewhat away from strict mechanical adherence to medieval fantasy and the old d&d rules which is why you don’t see it as much in the published osr sphere sadly
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>>84519408
I object to the notion of Bilbo not being at least a little chubby, he spent most of his life up to that point pottering around his house and garden and eating probably more than even most Hobbits typically do because he was a rich little bitch, and also probably didn't do an honest days work in his life.

The place had a gardener for one, so it's also possible that he merely "supervised" especially when any really heavy lifting or digging was involved with his garden.

And while we can't say for certain whether he had a housekeeper or not ( I mean probably not, it's not mentioned but it's also possible some local Hobbit woman dropped in occasionally for a small, reasonable price to tidy up occasionally)

Sorry for being a pedantic ass, I just got a fire lit up my ass by a minor detail of something that doesn't even have to do with the thread per-se.
>>
>84554737
This has to be bot, and it's busted or something.
>>
>>84554650
Speaking of guns, yea or nay on being able to enchant them?

I can't actually think of a reason why they couldn't be, since guns are relatively simple devices. If they're a more recent invention in the campaign world, I could see enchanted guns being a rarity. Personally I love all the weirdness of "-lock" style firearms, what with things like double barrel carbines, duckfoot pistols, and axe-guns.
>>
>>84549419
I think he was already seeing how Blackmoor and Greyhawk were essentially incompatible and this would always happen, even if you stuck close to the core rules.
>>
>>84551369
Giving this question a bump.
>>
>>84549083
BFRPG or OSE
>>
>>84555299
>Standard Rate
>Retainers will usually want a guaranteed
fee (per day or per adventure) and a share
of treasure recovered (at very least a half
share). For example: a fee of 1gp per day
plus a half share of treasure.

It's an IOU basically, there's nothing stopping you from taking a couple guys on
>>
>>84555384
This is from OSE btw, which is basically B/X. So there
>>
>>84555299
>>84555366
>>84555530
Retainers might be willing to waive a fee for a greater share of treasure. Potential retainers will likely have their own money and equipment, but especially destitute retainers might indenture themselves to the PCs until a set time or they can repay the PCs via treasure shares.

It depends on how available you want retainers to be. PCs who treat retainers generously will be rewarded with loyalty, and PCs who are stingy or cruel may end up without allies at a critical moment. Don't forget to have a prisoner or two in monster lairs or in dungeons who might fall in with the PCs as retainers for a time.
>>
>>84519408
Started an /osrg/ Discord if anyone is interested: https://discord.gg/yuVHWwsmZf
>>
>>84523248
Because OSR is light hearted and fun focused rather than gay min maxing. I’m gonna probably give my DCC players a glock just because it’ll be funny to see how they decide to divvy up a 20 round magazine and decide who to shoot with it.
>>
>>84554142
It's fine. The beginning is a little limp but as it goes on it's a pretty standard dungeon. Lots of NPCs to oppose or work with, lots of obstacles that require different strategies to navigate. (Some) people hate it because an annoying blog guy made it.
>>
>>84523248
the simplicity. it's the essence of table top roleplay without all of the noise. try talking to anybody in /5eg/ and you quickly understand the problem with later editions
>>
>>84549083
Adventurer Conqueror King
>>
>>84547517
>It makes no sense that every monster would go through a reaction roll. I've never seen anybody do this.
God DMs roll reactions on all random encounters that involve intelligent creatures other than trolls (which just attack)
>>
>>84551369

You're confusing
>advertising and hiring henchmen, DMG pg 34
and
>finding and hiring hirelings, DMG pg 28
Hirelines are cheap as fuck, henchmen expensive, but much more useful
>>
Someone please give me a brainlet breakdown of hirelings, henchmen, and retainers
To my understanding, hirelings are (mostly) noncombatant NPCs that you hire for specific tasks, like porters, lantern bearers, and general laborers
Henchmen are combatant NPCs, typically with character levels, that you hire and offer a share of treasure to after the adventure. They can level up just like a regular party member.
Is retainer just another term for henchmen? Or does it refer to something else?

And then there are specialists and mercenaries, which to my understanding are generally used for strongholds. What's kind of confusing to me though is that mercenaries could also technically also fall under the henchman and hireling category
>>
>>84556878
uh... anon, I think you just explained ot to yourself.
Hireling is the broad characterization of employed NPCs.
Stuff like henchmen, specialists, mercenaries are just more specific descriptions of their role and nature.
>>
>>84549083
Adventurer Conqueror King System (ACKS) by a significant margin.
>>
>>84556878
>Is retainer just another term for henchmen?
Henchman is the AD&D term, retainer is the term used in the Basic line. They are more or less the same thing.
>>
>>84555662
I do like the idea of taking on surrendered dungeon monsters as retainers; thus unironically fulfilling the fantasy of having a handful of gobbos follow you around and fight for your behalf.
>>
>>84556332
Standard hirelings are cheap though imo really restricted in what they do, some have good use though, like a linkboy. Valet/lackey is too vague for me to really consider how they may be of use, especially as they are half the price of a linkboy.
Expert Hirelings then are monthly cost only and whilst mercs look cheap, they need to be armed up and that's where the cost comes in (Monthly Costs section on page 29).
>>
>>84549083
AS&SH
ACKs
SWN and WWN, but really anything Kevin Crawford has put out in the last decade is good.
I have a special soft spot in my heart for WARBAND!.
>>
>>84557025
>>84557296
Ah alright thanks lads
I was just getting caught up in the terminology
>>
>>84554650
I've also been thinking about this over the last couple days. The way I see it there are two options:

>embrace the gun
It will require more work adapting your game rules and published material, but maybe if PCs can find and maintain these weapons they deserve to succeed. The type and rarity of firearms depends very much on just how badly industrial society collapsed. Flintlocks may be common but automatic weapons (and their ammunition) might be artifacts.

>factor in magic
Also known as "magitek", there's no reason to believe technology would evolve parallel to that of our world in one with standard-milieu magic. Take pic related for example, in which occasional laser blast are supplemented by holographic bows and arrows. No guns here, not even at the height of the Ancients! You can easily handwave the scarcity or even total absence of lasers, too.

Personally I'm leaning toward the latter because I feel it is more "integrated" with a world that also features magic. Removing magic would be an even greater deviation, honestly. But maybe there's room for technological "spellbook" equivalents like Phantasy Star had. I'll have to think on that too. I like the idea of all magic being an item of some sort instead of knowledge in the brain, and that jives really well with ancient technology.

>>84555035
No reason not too allow it in my opinion. No need to worry about how simple a device it is, anymore than worrying about which planks of a boat or fibers of a flying carpet are enchanted. It's the gun, boat or carpet as a whole.
>>
>>84557212
I've been going full autism with it lately, it's been pretty fun.
>>
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Yo, can anybody recommend me some cool spell books?
I already have the basic (up to lvl 6) and Wonders & Wickedness.
I need some spell ideas!
>>
>>84554530
Yeah but Skerps is an active community guy whole’s been in the scene forever. The randoms that wrote Crystal Frontier and Ultan’s door aren’t and just steal from Serpent Kings anyway. They aren’t OSR, the don’t have fidelity to D&D, but are weird and “creative”, not OSR. They don’t even have humanoids to kill in them and they’re written to create TPKs - there’s a room with 500 zombie in Frontier, that’s dumb.
>>
>>84559553
To be fair the crystal frontier guy is active in the community. His activities are largely limited to calling other people nazis for wrongthink, though…
>>
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>>84554530
Time for my bimonthly visit.
>Overly linear introduction.
>Lack of random encounters in the initial section.
>Overly patronizing 'the players are idiots so you have teach them like its mario and you're a soccer mom' approach.
All of these are deliberate choices. Not liking them is fine, but I found they were the best way to do what I wanted to do. They're not perfect for everyone, but that's fine; there are a lot of intro modules out there.
In tests (both in my group and online) GMs who added random encounters to the first sections regretted it. It introduced too much time pressure, slowed down exploration, depleted HP for no real purpose, and generally made the tutorial process worse.
>Badly made encounters after that that are lacking reaction based factions.
There's a bit of factionalism (Xiximanter and the goblins) which tends to come out during play, but it's not really a faction-driven module.
>Treasure is all kinds of wrong, basically built for glog.
Yeah, it's on the revision list. I think people are generally good about calibrating it correctly, but a paragraph or two of guidance couldn't hurt.

Anyway, it seems to work for some people, and doesn't work for others. That's to be expected. One module cannot possibly meet the needs of all users or all GM styles.
>>
>>84555035
With bows and crossbows it's the device itself that propels the missile, so they can inert a magical change to it's function. In a gun nothing the weapon itself does actually changes the missile fired.

I'd allow magical ammo and powder though. Powder that won't get wet, or is silent when it fires, would be amazing. Bullets that are enchanted with a compass, so that it always points to the last bullet fired, or cast Light on themselves when fired.
>>
>>84539976
It’s under $3. What’s your PayPal so I can help you friend?
>>
>>84561304
I like the magic ammo. Always wanted to port Caster Guns from Outlaw Star over with bullets that are essentially just scrolls repurposed.
>>
>>84553950
Thats not an argument. You could literally say that about system or rules.
>>
>>84539976
Dude, literally, what's the problem? It's in the OSE adventures folder with the other Populated Hexes stuff. You were told by multiple people where it was and to look at the ~Directory if you needed help. I bought this for the Rchive.
>>
>>84562065
Check out rebrand<dot>ly<slash>osr-obs if your looking to contribute. We definitely appreciate those willing to help.
>>
We're actual 70s/80s D&D games as edgy and gory as a lot of modern OSR content? If not, where did that influence come from?
>>
>>84564629
Some might have been: just like now, there was no single universal tone. You had goofy games, power games, horror games, whatever. But on average it seems that modern OSR stuff leans into that much more, and the reason is almost certainly the LotFP influence. It gave the people interested in that sort of thing product support and from there, like anything successful, spawned a lot of imitators.

I think it also helps that there's a lot more modern cultural influence from gore / slasher-type horror today than there was in the 70s: you've got people growing up on 80s slashers and zombie flicks and their offshoots who want to add that stuff to their D&D games.
>>
>>84564701
>and the reason is almost certainly the LotFP influence
Never played LotFP but grew up on 80s horror, death metal, and trashy, gory sword and sorcery. So did a fuck ton of old-school D&D dudes. You think that might have something more to do with edgier games then and now?
>>
>>84564629
D&D was mostly goofy. Life was edgier back then.
>>
>>84559553
>Yeah but Skerps is an active community guy whole’s been in the scene forever.
>The randoms that wrote Crystal Frontier and Ultan’s door aren’t and just steal from Serpent Kings anyway.
Holyshit get killed you're so ignorant it hurts.
>>
>>84560290
>Time for me to pretend I don't care about this at all
Go back to arguing with zak.
>>
>>84564629
>Carter and Reagan
>lots of parents served in WW2, Korea, or Vietnam
>specter of nuclear annihilation hovering around
You can understand why those old proles wanted some slightly more lighthearted fun and modern bougies who don't have to deal with 20% of the shit the boomers went through crank le edge
>>
The heavy metal influence and edgy stuff was always there, spiky swords, human sacrifice and demons eating faces. TSR wasn't doing (just like WotC today) it cause they were terrified of the fundies getting even more angry, but people certainly were.

In the OSR grimdark won out against gonzo sometime around 2014 when LotFP got big and the hangover lingers.

Don't let these kids tell you the 80's were edgier then the 2020's. Same shit, but mostly less bad.
>>
>>84527476
I tried to turn Out of the Abyss into a pseudo hexcrawl and it ended up being pretty boring. More my fault, honestly.
>>
>>84564936
Pretty much nailed it. AS a young Gen X my dad and every uncle on both sides were Korean or Vietnam vets, the economy was in a shambles, the theaters are full of shit like Death Wish, the TV is playing the Day After.
We just wanted to save the princess
>>
>>84555035
Apparently Mentzers homebrew has a very heavy magic vs industrial theme, reflected in some of his modules. Arcanum the PC game has a similar theme and I'd love to explore that dichotomy.
>>
>>84563685
Maybe, but it's a lot harder to pull it off when players have a 'roll-to-talk' skill. With reaction rolls nobody's gonna even know.
>>
>>84564752
>80s horror
>edgy
lol
theres far more gore fetish horror now than before
>>
>>84543066
Low fantasy for villages close to the known world. The farther you go, the weirder/more dangerous/more high-fantasy regions and settlements become.

>>84544215
>>84544445
I understand the desire to have retired name-level PCs affect the campaign in the long run, without spending 5+ years of your life on that game. But if that's what you want, why use some guy's weird TRVE OSR homebrew when you could just cut down on XP requirements? That baffles me.

>>84547407
Remember that even in this super-unlikely worst-case scenario, "attacks immediately" doesn't mean "aims for a TPK". A territorial tribe may wound but not pursue. A hostile dragon might just swoop down, grab a random character/mount for a snack, and fly away.

>>84555035
Yea, if it fits the campaign's tone. I've run a tiny bit of age-of-sail hexcrawling where you probably won't be making a gun out of mithril, but you can get it blessed by an island/sea spirit or bound with voodoo magic.
>>
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no wonder you guys like OSR, you can make puzzling dungeons where players have to think, or they fucking die
>>
>>84555825
I like it, it's chill.
>>
>>84564936
>20% of the shit the boomers went through
Affordable housing and medical care, oh my!
>>
>>84568716
you're confusing boomers and gen x
>>
>>84568716
I don't mean literal boomers, I mean meme boomer, dumb zoomer
>>
>>84519408
I'm looking for tables and stuff to generate dungeons room by room. I've been pointed to Four Against Darkness, which while neat, feels like there could be better things out there. I don't really care about the contents of the rooms, I handle that myself, I just want to generate some layouts without having to redraw half the rooms.
>>
>>84569226
AD&D 1e DMG will sort you you out.
>>
>>84551280
neat. I think it just makes sense. IF you are trying to get away from something, I get the opening, but slowly taking a few steeps back or at an angle seems more then doable.
>>
>>84557880
what is it that you specifically like about S/WWN?
something I just recently apreciated, and it really is just a small tweak that has opened up a whole new realm of things is the instant
combat actions. where you can take a massive penalty to "rush" an action. Feels dynamic, but also fair because you loose your turn. WHen you got a 4hp wizard and the orc goes first, it kinda feels great that you can spen it to increase your ac for a bit of a better chance of surviving and hope someone else can come to your rescue.
>>
>>84569463
This. It is hrd to end up with a gridded fits-the-page dungeon with the DMG, and that's good
>>
>>84564933
>Time for me to pretend I don't care about this at all
I care the sensible amount. Feedback is good. Nobody enjoys getting negative feedback (unless the goal was shock and controversy, I guess), but at least it's useful information. Always room for improvement.
>>
>>84564933
>Skerples
>Not caring
There's never any pretense of not caring when it comes to Skerples. Say what you will about him, but the dude literally can't help but respond earnestly to even the most flippant and off-hand criticism.
>>
>>84567404
>theres far more gore fetish horror now than before
What the fuck are you smoking? This is probably the most wrong movie opinion I've ever scene shared on this thread.
All horror nowadays is moody slow plotting introspective A24-worship. Any and all violence and gore has been replaced with the "suggestion" of violence and gore, with maybe a graphic scene or two thrown in for a split-second. Compare that to splatter horror from before 1990 and it's like a whole different genre.
>>
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What are we working on?

I'm condensing/modifying SWN for my DM folder, got the most important rules down to 11 pages.
>>
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>>84554650
agreed. I really liked Worlds without Numbers because it goes this dying earth angle, and it includes some of this shit. However, it kinda gives the DM leave to ignore, embrace, or currate the amount of tech wit the idea of the "legacy". The warpy magic superstructure of reality that makes some things work and others not. so your campaign might have a few guns here and there (default), but they are hardly common. or you could do away with them outright, or play with having more of them. And that applies to more then just guns, ruins often have "tech" in them just as magic items, again the whole sufficiently advanced tech is magic shtich, and the vagueness of how that impacts wider society is really given up to the campaign runner.

There is even a subsection all about "workings" which have an effect that are limited to an area which I think is very useful from a design perspective where you can really localize phenomina you want to play with, but dont necissarily want them to interfere with stuff in the wider world. good stuff. Or you could say there is more or less magical interference depending on location.
>>
>>84571557
want to post? ive been trying something similar, but more wwn facing. I kinda leaned in more into the traveler influence.
The basics is that characters have 4 stats, athletics, dex, int, and cha, and hp is calculated by athletics + wounds (usually 1). So it works out like a mini traveler deathspiral with most things having between 1-4 hits worth of damage depending on athletics (at -1 athletics and 0 wounds you are out). Your level is determined by the sum of your ability scores.

Ive found it very dynamic so far.
>>
>>84571557
Doing my first hex map this week.
Yet to start, I'm a little hesitant as I've not done it prior and so I guess if any anon has tips going in, that would help me a ton.
I'm working from week 2 of Gygax 75, wanting to do a more alpine region, like a border path between the HRE and Kingdom of Italy, taking inspiration from the manga Wolfsmund for locale (so essentially the pre-Swiss cantons).
>>
>>84571557
Converting Dark Sun 2e bestiary into WWN/SWN with Basic Psionics Handbook and OSE spells.
>>
>>84571557
I'm working on expanding the elf and dwarf classes for my B/X game to integrate them more into my setting. For elves I have several different subtypes for different regions in the world (though really they're just different "flavors" of elves that I want to include, like fin-eared tan anime seafarers, Melniboneans, etc.). For dwarves I plan on doing something similar, but maybe less complicated—perhaps just a table of dwarfy features players can roll on in addition to the standard infravision and detect architectural tricks.

My reasoning behind this is that it offers a lightweight, unobtrusive way for players to add a modicum of variability for elf and dwarf characters that are as much mechanical as they are situated in the setting.
>>
>>84571557
>>84571869
Today's my start of week 2 as well
I usually procedurally generate hexmaps but this time I'll try to hand-place everything
>>
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>>84571820
Nowhere near ready to post yet. I basically glued a summary of the SWN rules to my summary of the B/X play procedures, got to go through and refine it then add houserules and bits stolen from other SF RPG games (Motsp/H&H/Trav/SW).

Youtube just recommended this metal album, the cover feels relevant to typical player behaviour.

>I hit the robots with my sword!
>dammit John, we have guns
>>
>>84572553
are you the B/X conpression anon by any chance ? Did you ever get to finishing it ? Did you ever post it anywhere ?
>>
>>84572553
Ah, ok, I only have wwn, But in that it has a whole subsection on how to convert to and from B/X in it.
>>
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>>84572585
Not sure Anon, I got OSE/Basic into 20 pages or so with (abbreviated) dungeon stocking and monsters. This way I take up as little space as possible in my folder. Its a heavily compressed reference but there's a mostly blank page for notes and an appendix of tables.

Its not pretty but i'll upload it now. If I fucked up something i'll fix it tomorrow. Credit to Anon for the title page (I joked my players haven't seen a dragon yet, just dungeons)
>>
>>84519408
Any ideas on an Egypt setting?
>>
>>84573387
sand.
>>
>>84573387
naked girl
but
animal head
also mummies
>>
>>84573387
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16985/HWR2-Kingdom-of-Nithia-Basic
>>
>>84573709
And also
naked girl
but
golden symbol on head
>>
>>84570738
I just appreciate that it's managed to balance enough mechanical depth to be interesting without compromising on the lightweight appeal of the whole OSR movement, and it's done it without dumb gimmick dice or convoluted rules. The creation tools in both games are also excellent, but that's a given.
>>
>>84572363
What resources have you used in the past, anon?
I just need a stepping stone to get me on my way, really.
>>
>>84571251
Like ttrpgs, movies from after the 70s to mid 80s pale in comparison. IMO it's in large part due to the change in film ratings systems in '68 and filmmakers seeing what they could get away with.
>>
>>84573788
Wilderness hexplore and the 1e DMG
>>
>>84573387
Ghouls cause they're jackal headed.
>>
>>84573387
Gary Gygax's Necropolis stuff is worth checking out even though it wasn't an OSR product
>>
>>84574142
Trent Foster did 1e conversions of the creatures on his blog.
>>
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>>84573387
Take a look at the Cairo chapter of Masks of Nyarlathotep, especially the Horrors Below section.
There are more than a few documentaries and series on the Smithsonian Channel about the Great Pyramid and the excavations of lesser known tombs. They have some great footage of the digging into and exploration of man-made underground spaces.
And there must be at least a few good old pulp stories having to do with ancient Egyptian stuff but I am speculating. Maybe somebody else here knows more?
>>
>>84574142
Did that S&W conversion ever come out?
>>
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I would like to run something similar to FF1 for my friends, and I was told that FF1 was heavily based in AD&D. I worry about how deadly the game can be for players, so my questions are is AD&D particularly deadly or am I just buying into nostalgia/biases for the older systems. If it is deadly what are some things I can do to buff the players so it's not so deadly, and if I can't do that with AD&D, what are some OSR games that are a bit friendlier? I really like the idea of classes leveling up at different EXP, or that have less levels so I'm trying to use Final Fantasy as a carrot to get my friends to play something other than 5e, but if it's really deadly then I know they won't want to play.
>>
>>84575439
AD&D can be quite deadly at low levels. Ideally, you'd play by the rules and let your players learn their limits, but it sounds like they already have certain expectations. You may consider the Scarlet Heroes solo-play rules:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/114895
The rules in there will make the PCs a lot stronger without changing a whole lot. Obviously it was meant for solo-play, but it should work well with more than one player (you may need to adjust encounters though as they get more powerful).
>>
>>84575132
yes and it's in Bytee's trove.
>>
>>84573759
understandable, thats a draw for me too. though I dont know if I would exactly call it light weight. though it does follow the principle of NOT bagging in a lot of additional subsystems but instead refining existing ones.

Have you read both? Ive been through wwn like I said, but is there any structural differences or particular reason to go for swn besides obvious sci-fi bent?
>>
>>84536887
osr is a theme
>>
>>84575439
old school rpgs have less attachment to characters. Don't tell me you beat FF1 without a party wipe at any point. There's no battery save to go back to in D&D either. Once your players accept that it's okay to die they can keep playing and having fun after it happens. The game is better designed than 5E for mixed-level play since death is unavoidable. If you remove the feelings of loss, setback, or not being able to participate you will remove most of players' objections to character death.

One other key difference is that FF1 has only fight or flight as encounter options. D&D will give the players more opportunities to avoid fighting the monsters. Make sure not to force every encounter to be a fight - this new school principle saps the joy from games that use old school principles. That might break from your source material a bit, but I assume you aren't trying to emulate grinding random encounters for levels between towns.
>>
>>84573899
Which pages of the DMG?
I find it's random roll dungeon generator great, I know it has some charts for wilderness etc, though didn't know it went in-depth to help map things out too.
>>
New thread, friends:

>>84576432
>>84576432
>>
>>84576462
it kil
>>
>>84577659
wtf
>>
>>84577659
What a surprise. Legit thread, posted on page 8, and up for hours.

New thread:
>>84577732
>>84577732
>>
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WTF?
>>
New thread yet again:

>>84577912
>>84577912
>>
>>84577920
It's called the thread deleter. You *will* post only approved content, citizen.
>>
>>84577942
What was the problem with the last threads?
>>
>>84577961
Nothing. They broke no rules, which is why the first one was up for hours. But our deleting thread parasite finds excuses to delete all threads with the "please take nuOSR talk elsewhere" language.
>>
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anyone with shooping ability be willing to photoshop this photo of Dave Arneson with this text regarding the Kings of War RPG kickstarter?

Preferably with some kind of snarky line about the wisdom of the greybeards?

>In March we got the news that Red Scar was looking to close. Once again, we pushed to try and get something for the Kings of War: Roleplaying Game community to allow us to give you at least some of the asset. In the last few days, we’ve received a rough collection of files, via dropbox, in various states of being written, half-written and unedited, but nothing that can be collated into anything meaningful.
>>
>>84578187

Based Red Scar taking the money and running.



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