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File: MESBG dragon.jpg (146 KB, 1000x1000)
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>Previous: >>84469524

Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Middle-Earth Strategy Battle Game, Warcry, Epic, Warmaster, Underworlds, Aeronautica, Mordheim, Titanicus, Battlefleet Gothic, Man-o-War, Warhammer Quest, and any other GW system and boardgame are welcome.

There is currently a Kill Team General >>>/tg/ktg. Discussions for the Kill Team should go there.

>We are working on a mega archive with the rulebooks for the boxed and specialist games (don't share).
rebrand<dot>ly/gwsg
>Drop any missing files you might have here:
rebrand<dot>ly/gwsg-drop
>Current MESBG rules:
>you know what to put
/folder/yDBmCRRK#kI26Bcw-9vgxOnQICVbpsA
>Old links:
https://pastebin.com/dk8SFxht

Missing anything? Simply request.

>TQ
favorite model with horrendous, prohibitively bad rules?
>>
A while ago, I bought two classic bloodbowl teams in metal, the tomb kings team and the chaos dwarfs, so I can learn how to play. What's the size of the bases for them?
>>
Protip - do not ever build or paint the metal LOTR dragon
>>
>>84518255
because?
>>
>>84518184

> TQ
Can I nominate 'Beastmen, in every iteration of every game they've ever been in'?
>>
>>84518370
yes, they're the definitive faction of it
it wasn't until kinda recently I realized how much I like beastmen models because for so long all I knew was "they're so bad dude they're unplayable" I'd kinda written them off

it's crazy how great the sculpts are
>>
>>84518244
>blood bowl
>base sizes
Who cares lmao. Use squares if you fancy.
>>
>>84518184
dragon boi is back
but why the hell does he cost so much
>>
>>84518418
I got them to learn how to play, I know basically nothing about the rules or how it's played. Is the base size relevant?
>>
>>84518462
Base size and shape is utterly irrelevant in BB. The game is played on a grid my man.
>>
>>84518424
Because GW knows people will buy it regardless, look at the price tag on ash wastes.
>>
>>84518505
Huh. Well, that saves me the trouble. Thanks.
>>
>>84518370
Wheeeew good call my man.

They're playable in Mordheim. Quite good, even!
>>
>buy stupid defense of the north epub to add it to MESBG archive
>"Available to download from 21/05/2022"
god damn I hate these fucking people
>>
>>84518546
Doing Eru's work anon
>>
>>84518506
Ash wastes despite its high price has new models and a new edition of rules, and is a new "starter set". The dragon is old, not in any way definitively a "Lotrsbg" dragon, and is easily replacable with an alternate model.
>>
>>84518424
>>84518672
it's resin, I honestly wouldn't recommend getting one from GW when slavic friends still have their shops open
if it was metal I'd be tempted but all these models being sold as finecast is a joke
>>
2-1-1 with vamps in a sevens tourney

thats basically 4-0 with a real team ill take it
>>
>>84518546
We appreciate you nonetheless, anon.
>>
>>84518703
Fucking right mate, nice one
>>
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>>84518462
Ignore the others, base size IS relevant but just not in the usual way.
BB is played on a grid, if you want your pitch to be huge use the new standard of 32 mm bases and get pitches with 34mm squares.
But if you use 25mm bases (and 32's for big guys) you can make a pitch almost half the size.
Picrelated is a new big pitch I made and an old style small pitch, huge difference in playing space, note how the smaller one I was able to make using half the material. and I can fit it on my coffee table alongside drinks and snacks.
>>
>>84519159
In other words base size is completely irrelevant.
>>
>>84519262
If playing space was irrelevant then LGS's wouldn't charge for tables.
>>
>>84519159
So skeletons/hobgobbos with 25mm base and mummies/dwarfs with 32mm? Also, what's better for the game, square or round?
>>
>>84519278
>square or round?
That's entirely your personal choice.
>dwarfs 32
I put everything that will fit on a 25mm base on 25mm base, So far I've only put Big Guys on 32mm bases (4 teams, 2 entirely 25mm) although the one Deathroller had to be on a 40mm and I still can't really see the base unless I turn it over, good thing I never plan to field it.
>>
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>>84519268
Why dont you just play with friends at your place on a dining table?
>>
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>>84518184
really proud how this came out for word bearers looks basic but i like it
>>
>>84519774
>friends
ha!
>>
>>84519774
? That irrelevant to the discussion, play space has value, that is what matters.
>>
I miss when GW didnt give a shit about lotr. i'll take not baing able to buy 80% of models over not being able to buy 70% of models and having shitty powercreep added in every unnecessary expansion thats lazily made. They had two years to make this shit and couldnt be bothered to proof read it to realise the way they worded allying beornings is needlesly confusing when they could have just made them an army list. Fuckers couldnt even word the rules properly so RAW the erebor and dale legion needs a model to be in range of 4 characters to get a banner re-roll. I was initially very happy with the ally system but theyve shat all over that every chance they get by never giving it a second draft, adding more restrictions and spewing dozens of shitty legions.
>>
>>84519883
It has value but pretty diminishing.
Yeah, a 6x4 board can be an ordeal. Even a 4x4 is cubersome.
But a BB board is already tiny as fuck and fits easily on even coffee tables with plenty of space to spare for drinks and other extra.
The board and dugouts fits easily into a packbag with two teams and accessories on top.
Cant see any actual value between an official board and a purely 25mm designed even smaller one.
>>
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could the ogre bloodbowl team booster be considered a worthy purchase? 55 dollars is definitely a forge world price but I definitely like the models and i think painting them would be a joy.
>>
>>84520246
>a worthy purchase?
>I definitely like the models and i think painting them would be a joy.
you answered your own question there I think. In the end it's all about enjoying yourself.
>>
>>84520030
>power creep
not really
the two big ones people are calling that (dale and easterlings) are both very, very mediocre armies in their own right and this is the best possible balance short of just redoing the army/profiles, which the MESBG team has said they can't do.
both the orc legions look pretty tame, the only thing I fear is shatter shaman spam but mathing that out I don't think any of the lists I could come up with are scary unless you're playing a really ill-advised hero spam with no magic protection.

the only legion that could be really strong is dale+erebor and I'd wait before saying
more broadly the LLs have been awesome, even the powerful ones (maybe riders of theoden aside) have all been dope, thematic, and a lot of fun to play with and against. a helm's deep list was dogshit before but is really, really cool now- I just don't see the power creep complaint when the biggest buffs have been for armies that suck dick and default book armies are still topping the board
>>
>>84520030
The people who keep spouting this garbage never actually play
>>
>>84520246
>55 dollars
holy shit how are they not out of business with deez prices
>>
>>84520039
>The board and dugouts fits easily into a packbag
What? If you mean a rollup MAT okay, but a BB board only fits in my duffle bags.
And again I refer you to my example photo, that shows my coffee table completely taken up by a 34mm pitch but shows how the 28mm would leave room for other stuff to be on the table, instead of putting drinks on the floor or couch cushions.
>>
>>84520398
Yeah that's how much the RNEstudio team of 17 unique players cost me.
I'm guessing the ogre team at that price isn't a full roster?
>>
>>84518370
Beastmen are A tier in Warcry and actually have enough well-stated units that you can put together a bunch of different styles of list and still have it play well. Gors are above-rate chaff, Bestigors are solid demi-elites, Dragon Ogors, Bullgors, and the Cockatrice are all playable large bruisers, and most of their leader choices range from reasonable to outright good. I think the only real dud unit in the faction is Ungors.
>>
>>84520413
Feels like we just live in different euclidean dimemsions lmao
>>
>>84520556
No I'm pretty sure you're arguing for some reason you haven't stated, the picture I posted is pretty damn clear: half the space.
>>
>>84520817
Half the space when the bigger board is wasting a massive amount of surface area to include completely unnecessary dugouts, spectators and literal empty space? At least try to make some coherent points if you just want to talk about your picture.
>>
>>84520915
That's because the larger board requires two standard sheets of foamcore (even if you want to cut it down to just the pitch), the smaller board can be done on just one, there was no reason to exclude the dugouts when I had to buy twice the material just to start the project.
But also there is still room on the smaller sidelines to line up your reserve dudes and coaching staff.
>>
So how big is the Dol Guldur terrain?
Is it usable for Warcry or is it too tiny?
>>
>>84520915
I agree with anon his photo is clear I see two sheets of foamcore here one has a whole pitch with a bit of excess edge and the other has half a pitch with comparable excess edging (in square inches)
>>
Man that is some scandalous fucking pricing on the War in the North stuff.
>>
>>84520952
So dont make some shitty foamcore boards if that's your real issue?
>>
>>84521223
You keep moving goalposts, I have demonstrated visibly how it makes a different both on play space and material hobbying costs and you continue to say it is irrelevant? Admit it's only irrelevant to (You) and base sizing does in fact make a difference in Blood Bowl, just not in the USUAL way.
>>
>>84521183
Yeah GW charge absurd amounts for the resin stuff. Gonna just finish up my dale force with the commanders set and call it a day. Did kind of fancy a Windlance.
>>
I'll never understand why Weta and Jackson made the orcs from Mordor so... mishmash and looking unorganized when they're probably the most organized force in the entirety of ME with an entire industry geared for war. In the book, their logistics are better than anyone else's, their tactics are (mostly) better, and their strategy is sound and, frankly, better.

Everyone allied with Sauron would have followed under this, save Sauronman.
>>
>>84521249
Oh absolutely, I'll happily concede that base size makes a difference if you specifically want to make a foamcore board with exactly one standard sheet of it.
>>
>>84521301
dungeons and dragons influence, making the bad guys look obviously bad
>>
New Warcry profiles for the models that came in the DoK vs Nighthaunt box. As expected, the Nighthaunt are unplayably awful. The DoK fighter is fine but kinda overshadowed by the many great existing leaders available to DoK.
>>
>>84521302
Because larger quantities of materials only cost more with foamcore? Being able to fit two games on one coffee table vs. just one makes no difference? Now you're just being stupid as well as a pedantic ass.
>>
>>84521322
There are ways to make them look like bad guys that Weta could have done (and did, to be fair because in reality even though I'm complaining the costumes/props/architecture looked amazing) that just showed a bit more of the actual unified might. Jackson should have just followed the book a bit more and in the zoomed out sections of the siege shown some baggage trains or something.
>>
>>84521301
Making Gothmog a tactical genius orc was at least a pretty neat interpretation on Jackson's part. And the interpretation of orcs as undisciplined is certainly borne out by parts of LotR.
>>
>>84521301
Orcs are undisciplined and lazy. A major part of their character is they need a driving force behind them to make them a major threat rather than just a nuisance.
>>
>>84521390
I think Gothmog was fine (but I don't think he should have been an orc), and having him be the leader of the siege (i guess? It wasn't entirely clear if the Witch King was the overall commander or not, really) was pretty neat. His actions were very stupid, though. Once again, having him follow the book's happenings during the siege would have shown him as a more formidable commander to be reckoned with.

As for your point of undisciplined orcs, we only really ever see that at the garrisons (Cirith Ungol) and amongst Sauronman's Uruk Hai (when the three groups are together after Amon Hen). Guarding Cirith Ungol must suck and be boring. Orcs wanting to abandon these garbage duties is understandable. I guess we also see it when the, what I can only assume are militia/reserves, do the kerfuffle with Frodo and Sam. Are there any other instances?
>>
>>84521509
>i guess? It wasn't entirely clear if the Witch King was the overall commander or not, really

Witchking literally orders him to start the siege.
>>
>>84521353
Agreed, the ghosts are utter trash, especially for that absurd price.
High Gladiatrix is great, her weapon profile is nearly perfect. She's basically a halfway house between Handmaiden and Gorgai, which is an okay spot to be at, I think.
>>
>>84520398
When you charge 5 times more than prodution cost it doesn't matter if you lose half your audience
>>
Can't wait for someone to scan the Ash Wastes vehicle rules, I wanna know the details about riding around like a mad max dipshit (even if we're waiting on more vehicles) but I ain't paying 300 bucks when the rules and dice are literally all I'd want from the box.
>>
>>84518184
>>84518255
>>84518424
>>84518506
>>84518701

What are some good close to scale alternatives to this guy that yall prefer?
>>
>>84521353
Who the fuck balances this game? Flying, Toughness and Shooting is so overpriced it breaks the algorithm.
>>
>>84522787
I agree that they're astonishingly overpriced because they're paying ridiculous premiums for certain traits/stats, but I don't think toughness is really factoring in here. These guys are only T4 and they readjusted how they priced toughness with the ToC2021, high toughness values are a lot cheaper and much more in-line points-wise with the value they provide now.

The issue is that flying still comes at a premium, and all ranged attacks no matter how shitty all got a major tax applied to them with the recent points algorithm adjustments, because the devs didn't seem to understand that the shooting problem was only really an issue with top-tier shooting teams like KO, Mawtribes, and Vanguard while most shooters were already kinda just meh.
>>
>>84518244
Most people use 32s for BB now but the old metal models are a bit smaller, might look silly on a 32. Personal taste really
>>
>>84518703
What lineup did you take? Do you prefer their new negatrait over bloodlust?
>>
>>84520398
Oh boy. Never look up how much a GW goblin team costs
>>
>>84522675
none the model is without a doubt my favorite dragon model in the world.
just don't get it from GW, it's 20 bucks from slav frens.
>>
>>84522675
Man, I wish I had one.
Reaper has a bunch of good dragons but they tend to be either too big or too small, and many of them are very D&D or WOW-like and don't fit that well the LOTR aesthetic.
Best bets from Reaper would be probably:

>Narthrax
From pictures it seems he fits comfortably on a 5'' base but should go well enough on a 4'' too. I think it's a beautiful sculpt but the wings are a bit silly and the pose is very weird.

>Ebonwrath
Should fit well on a 4'' base, very cool body and nice neutral pose, but it is very much a D&D black dragon, and also the head is a little derpy.

>Blightfang
Also fits well on a 4'', it's a nice dragon but it has a very D&D look with its 'sail', and the pose is really awkward as he's looking backwards.

You could also go with their shadow dragon, which is a beauty and very cheap but considerably smaller (only good for a 3'' base really), or their fire dragon, which is only a little bit bigger than shadow and pretty alright but again has a very D&D-like spine sail.

The Davale Games dragon looks pretty neat.
>>
>>84523531
Also I forgot Reaper's Marthrangul and the dragon from Dragons Don't Share diorama, but, they are both fucking huge. Marthrangul could probably fit on a 4'' base, but you'd have his neck overhanging a good 1'' forward and his tail poking out 4'' in the back.
>>
I do wonder how easy or difficult it will be to make walker vehicles with the new vehicle rules. I doubt it'll be complex save for having to come up with a table for impairment and the lack of the new movement shenanigans.
>>
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>>84522675
I'm an idiot, I forgot to mention Mithril Miniatures.
>>
Anyone seen scans of the Ash Wastes book yet? Mainly just looking for weapon profiles of the nomads.
>>
>>84519159
Those look pretty much the same size, though?
>>
>>84524335
For just the pitch (no dugouts and benches or anything JUST the grid) the small one is 390 square inches, the large one is roughly 610 square inches, a difference of 220 square inches.
That's room you can do shit with, not negligible space. I double checked, apparently I lied about the millimetres I'm used to imperial over metric (I'm a canadian carpenter) it's 1" grid on the small one 1+1/4" on the large one.
>>
Is Ash Wastes up yet? Got some nomads, I want to get to list building
>>
>>84522520
Those dice are unironically fantastic
>>
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>>84523531

I went for Kyphrixis, he fits the GW dragon sized base well.
>>
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This is just going to do a wheelie and tip backwards as soon as it tastes a sip of acceleration.
What a stupid fucking design.
>>
>>84522969

4 vamps 4 thralls maximum anarchy

i never played with bloodlust vamps but from everything ive read i reckon savagery is a sneaky upgrade
>>
I'm doing a video pairing Blood Bowl teams with beers. What do you guys think?

Black orcs - Budweiser
Orcs - Bud Light
Goblins - Pabst
Snotlings - Coors banquet

Humans - European pale - Stella Artois
Imperial - European pale - Heineken
Amazon - White Claw
Norse - white ale - Blue Moon
Ogre - cider - Strongbow
OWA - brown ale - New Castle

Dwarves - stout - Guinness
Halflings - oatmeal stout - Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout
Chaos dwarves - russian imperial stout - Wells & Young's Brewery Russian Stout

Chaos Chosen - bock - Shiner Bock
Chaos Renegades - maibock - Rogue Dead Guy
Khorne - doppelblock - Ayinger Celebrator
Nurgle - pilsner - Carlsberg

Shambling Undead - ipa - lagunitas
Necromantic Horror - double ipa - double dog
Tomb Kings - brut ipa - Sierra Nevada
Vampires - juicy haze ipa - voodoo ranger

Wood elves - crisp UK lagers - Tennet
High elves - Carling
Elven Union - Harp
Dark Elves - Cobra

Lizardmen - Pacifico

Underworld Denizens - Twisted Tea
Skaven - Fourloco
>>
>>84525469
>Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves
Dwarfs, Chaos Dwarfs.
>>
>>84525469
I actually drink strongbow as my usual, I play Vamps and Chorfs, but thematically I'd have to say it's a toss-up between Wood Elves and Halflings.
>>
>>84525129
GW have always been infamous for their nonsensical vehicle design.
>>
>>84525469
Make only the vamps drink red wine.
>>
>>84525469
>that list
>beers
I feel ill. What the FUCK is wrong with americans that you consider such dog piss as beer.
>>
>>84526601
Rent free
>>
Should I spend $100 on 8 khazad guard?
>>
What do you guys use to carry tokens and dice and stuff? I'm looking for some cases with removable compartments which doesn't have a handle as I already have something like that but the search continues. I don't want removable dividers. I don't know why.
>>
>>84522675
>>84523531
Goddamn, now I want to buy a D&D dragon just to paint. I'm trying to shrink my backlog, not grow it.
>>
QRD on what changed for the BB teams of legend?
>>
>>84524276
I'm looking for the vehicle rules myself. Plan to 3d print alternatives to the GSC vehicles to use as neutrals.
>>
>>84526601

More than half of these beers are European.

It also makes sense, in my own way.

Orcs are shitty American beers. Workhorse, working-class beers.

Shorties are stouts. Dwarves the classic stout, halflings are mealish oatmeal stout, Chaos Dwarves a Russian stout.

Chaos are German beers. It's extra cool because bocks use rams on the bottles. A double bock for the Khorne is especially appropriate.

Undead are IPAs. Classic IPA for Undead, Brut IPA is dry for Tomb Kings, double IPA for Necro. And a juicy for the vamps.

Elves are light European lagers.

Lizardmen are a Mexican beer.

Underworld and Skaven are goofy flavored beers. Twisted Tea for the weirdness and mutations, and Fourloko for Skaven because it's bottom shelf high point booze filled with caffeine for the super fast movement.

It made sense to me. If you want to suggest how I can fix it, I'm open to it!
>>
>>84526748
Passing stat added, most non-thrower players now strictly worse at passing the ball. Access to passing skills restricted. Not sure if any cost adjustments was done. Vamps got dicked down withe the swapping of bloodlust into animal savagery.

>>84525469
I disagree with your choices for orcs, Bud should be for Humans, the most generic beer for the most generic team. Malt liquor like steel reserve for greenskins.
Amazons should share the Mexican beers with lizzies.
Norse should have some generic scandic lager like Sofiero or just mead as vikings should.
The elves should be either sours, barley wines or wheat beers.
>>
>>84526899
Dwarves should have mead, there are no fields for grains in mountain holds, but apiaries are fine.
Also for the norse for obvious lore reasons.
>>
>>84526899
Europeans dont consider the garbage you listed as beers. Unless you mean those choices a jab at BB in general in which case well played.
>>
>>84527271
Yes we do. I don't drink and my friends are picky about beers, but I've seen many of those brands in stores, which means there's plenty of people who drink them.
Guinness is even considered a good quality beer by the average grocer, as far as I know
>>
>>84526644
I bought 2 boxes of em in burger dollars, they've always been my favorite dwarf sculpts. Had the box of them that came with Balin too as a kid and loved them ever since.
>>
>80 burgerpounds for two sets of the same 6 models, a drummer team and a shaman
I really want to rationalize buying them but Webstore Exclusive is such a fucking dealbreaker. If I only could get them from retailers with the standard 20% discount I would bite the bullet.
>>
>>84528431
Just buy them from our Slavic friend.
>>
>>84528446
I know you can't exactly spell it out, but I for one don't know who our slavic friend is
>>
>>84528479
Right now he's probably stuck in ruts wearing camo pants, buried chest deep in a Maginot, wondering when he'll touch flesh aain.
>>
>>84528431
Have you tried asking at your local game store? I've asked mine to order in a few webstore exclusive items before for me and they've done it and still given me their usual discount. It's my understanding that webstore stuff is still on the buylist or whatever for LGS's.
>>
>>84528502
The site has a PHP error atm. Shame, because it was working a few days ago. No idea if the caster is fighting or not, but I know his location was west of the Dnieper.
>>
>>84527088
>Vamps got dicked down withe the swapping of bloodlust into animal savagery
thats a weird way to spell buffed
>>
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>>84528741
On FUMBBL, Vampires have the second lowest win % of all teams barring ogres. Having used them myself, their consistency makes goblins feel like tier 1. They make the LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE meme a reality.

Can you do well with vampires in a match? Yes.

Can you do well with them consustently? NO! GOD NO!
>>
>>84528741
So far it has tanked the winrates for vamps so indeed it is a weird buff.
>>
>>84528502
Hopefully he's had his head blown clean off
>>
>>84528975
this is the level of humanity of a bootlicking paypiggy.
>>
>>84528975
I'd rather play with the hewitt sperg than the likes of you.
>>
>>84529857
>>84530086
You both would be lucky to get a game, period.
>>
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Converting the RNEstudio dwarfs into Chaos Dwarfs.
Thanks to the silly not-viking horns I feel like just adding the hat is enough here.
>>
Got top 5 in a local MESBG tournament. Anyone interested in a few short battle reports about it?
>>
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>>84530449
I'm with them, you're a retard and should probably go back to 40kg.
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>>84531373
Only if you play an interesting faction.
>>
>>84531521
Rivendell and Numenor alliance. Isildur with the Ring was crucial for every match.
>>
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>>84531643
>Rivendell and Numenor alliance. Isildur with the Ring was crucial for every match.
I see. In that case...
>>
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>>84518184
warmaster looks very cool and affordable thanks to 3d printing. Is the game easy to learn? I will learn it and teach retard pals if it is.

If it's very complicated they wont want to learn it.
>>
>>84531373
absolutelly yes anon
>>
>>84531373
If you provide nice photos I will even make them into a thematic spread
>>
>>84530449
>a random anon says a BAD thing about me, based entirely off assumptions from my unsupportive reply to his stupidly hostile post
Oh no! How will my self-esteem ever recover from such a blow? D,:
>>
>>84528893
>>84528898

fumbll is filled with grogs trying to play vamps like its 2016. its effectively a completely new team needing completely new tactics
>>
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>>84532414
Aight. So it was an escalation format with 200p to 750p. The scenarios were told in advance which filtered a ton of lists, but the players mostly liked the format.
I was originally going to go with a Corsair + Serpent Horde shooty list, but the scenarios heavily favored mobility, and Lords of Battle can be a real uphill battle when playing a low defence horde.

So I went with the pictured list. Pic has obviously some extra models for dismounts and if I need to pick up the banner with an elf.
200p Isildur and 7 numenoreans.
450p add Glorfindel and some elves.
600p fill their warbands
750p Cirdan
>>
>>84532625
These look great. Lotr minis are so cheap I CANNOT understand how it isnt more of a jumping in point for people getting into wargaming
>IP people love
>Minis look nice
>Good system
>Way cheaper than AoS or other fantasy games

What am I missing here
>>
>>84532672
>Barely any marketing presence
>Generally little to no store space, most of the line is online only
>Waah waah mydudes I want to use my OC captain whose name Borogorn who is super good.
>>
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>>84532625
200p Seize the Prize against Angmar.
I was real happy to roll this opponent just because it was one of the rare lists that didn't have mounted models and March to attempt the prize turn 1.
Instead I got the priority turn 2, he didn't heroic move and I got Isildur into two wild wargs and just grouped up behind him with my numenoreans, managing to dig up the artifact with them.
WK tried to transfix Isildur but he resisted it and proceeded to heroic combat off the two wargs into a ride. The Numenoreans were a very efficient choice against the wargs. F3S4D4 statline does not like facing them.
WK managed to get into my prize carrier but flubbed the roll and I ended up tabling him soon afterwards. Got extremely lucky with my terror checks, resistant to magic rolls and overall rolling though.
>>
>>84532512
I do think you are onto something with that statement though the extent of this change remains to be seen. Recent vampire stats from NAF doesn't show any big swings, apart from 2020 being somewhat of an outlayer.
2022 46.32% 204 games.
2021 46.03% 655 games.
2020 43.18% 506 games.
2019 46.15% 1248 games.
2018 45.02% 993 games.
https://member.thenaf.net/index.php?module=NAF&type=statistics
If anything the playrate of vamps seems a bit lacking. As a black orc player I hope you are correct since blorcks could be in a similar slump and it's a new team..
>>
>>84532699
strange matt, looks good otherwise
>>
>>84532762
And I forgot to add: The overall winrate of vamps was something 43%ish so compared to that the 2020 version is performing a bit better.
>>
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>>84532699
450p Fog of War was in listbuilding stage my most dreaded match.

Trying to cram Glorfindel into the list meant that I just didnt have any numbers. I had 14 models total.
It did mean that the opponent was forced to try to assassinate him though which is never a fun experience.
The opponent was a pretty nightmarish Gondor list for my elite infantry. Faramir, Captain, a boatload of Knights (dol amroth models but they're regular MT knights), and a battleline of warriors and rangers.
The saving grace was that we ended up on the same dense goblin town map I had been in the previous game that had a heavy line of sight blocking cliff and a fairly dense chokepoint. After some posturing we committed into a brawl at the chokepoint. I lost a crucial heroic move roll-off, resulting in Faramir, 3 knights and even some warriors getting to charge Isildur who was on horseback.
Isildur rolled 1 on the strike and lost the combat. But in a completely outlandish display of dice he was unable to deal more than 2 wounds on him with all of his dice. This pretty heavily tilted my opponent which came back to bite him later.
Meanwhile Glorfindel somehow managed to heroic combat through two knights into two rangers and was an absolute unit the entire game. I crucially won the next move-roll off and immediately dismounted and put the ring on with Isildur. Just through sheer good duel dice and higher fight I was able to grind his forces slowly down while losing only a few in return.
I got lucky enough that I managed to break him by just 1 model while being 1 model away from breaking. Glorfindel had sprinted towards my Fog of War objective and due to his tilt he didn't realize he could have contested that objective. That gave me the win barely (if he had contested it would have ended in a draw) as we immediately rolled the game to end.
Probably the luckiest match I've ever played.
>>
>>84532672
>Half the shit in the game is out of production
>many plastic kits are reslly old and rough
>I hope you like finecast
>Zero yourdudes
>can't buy anything in stores
>updates few and far between
Mesbg is good, but you're obviously not thinking about it objectively.
>>
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>>84532823
600p was Command the Battlefield against a Mordor&Serpent Horde alliance. Custom maelstorm rules meant we deployed warbands alternating.
I would have liked to shoot him with my 5 elf bows but sadly this was the situation after deployment.
I tired a denied flank gameplay where I charged the serpent horde side with Glorfindel and Isildur and most others, while leaving only a small force to hold the Morannons.
While the two heroes did excellent work and managed to kill Suladan early on, his Shelob then tied them down and almost killed Glorfindel.
Meanwhile my dice turned cold and I lost every single fight aside from the heroes on the first turn of combats, losing like 6 models when he lost 8. This continued and we were both laughing at the absurdity of it. My elite forces even with a banner just crumbled against basic morannons and serpent guard. I got quartered way too early and my objective grabbing knights ran away at the first break test. I managed to break him just as I got quartered to get a single measely VP.
Honestly serves me right though considering the 450p game I had outlandish dice.
>>
>>84532834
I do not see why the game needs that many updates or in store space to get NEW players.

I imagine
>like the idea of mini wargaming
>I like lotr a lot
>google lotr minis since I know of it faintly
>go online, its affordable
>get some minis
>>
>>84532924
There are too many holes in that line of thought. How do these "new" players-to-be learn about miniature wargaming? Having store space in gaming stores and/or marketing for a game is what tells people that this kind of thing even exists. When people learn about miniature wargaming its typically through warhammer, which is the reason why people go for warhammer. Back when Lotrsbg was big in the early 2000s it had a lot of marketing behind it.
Even then, if they find out about and manage to stumble into games workshop's lord of the rings range the initial investment outside of the Pelennor box is going to feel rough for someone who doesn't know anything about wargaming.
>30-50 local currency for a book? And I need two of them to play? No thank you.
Add onto this the needing to learn how to paint etc. and its not in any way an easy world to get into if you don't have anyone to teach you the ropes.
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>>84532909
750p Lords of Battle I ended up against the Angmar player from the first match.
This was a completely horrible matchup for him.
As long as WK cant shut down Cirdan the match is really lopsided.
Angmar has zero tools against terror and with aura of command and/or high courage I negate all his advantages. I had a substantial shooting advantage and could dictate the fight to happen in a chokepoint which suited me.
He made a massive mistake pushing his trolls forward aggressively and I pounced on them. Thanks to the Ring Isildur slaughtered Bhurdur in a single round before helping Glorfindel dispatch another. After that I just ground him down.
After that the game swung for him for a while though. WK and troll managed to kill Isildur as Glorfindel got bogged down. The troll later did a huge full distance hurl which devastated my lines. Only right before time was called I managed to get Glorfindel into a trapped WK and kill him, securing me the win.

Anyhow, ended up placing 3. out of 16 players which was completely unexpected.
>>
>>84532315

It is pretty simple to learn. No pages of special rules to memorise, all the rules for your faction will fit on a single page.
The only complicated bit is the combat resolution about which direction to fall back, who can pursue, etc.
>>
>>84532672
GW seems to be actively trying to kill this game by making it hard to get, giving minimal releases, inflating prices, and hiding it as much as possible behind their proprietary IPs. Any of their half a dozen secondary 40k games is getting more attention and publicity than LOTR. Lots of models can only be bought on their online store, lots of models are only in shitfuck resin, and they got some stupid price hikes.

Aside from that, LOTR is much more of a 'finished setting' than any of the Warhammers, you can't keep adding new stuff indefinitely. And what they did with the Hobbit line is already bad enough that I don't know if I'd want them to release new stuff anyway.
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>>84533135
>GW seems to be actively trying to kill this game by making it hard to get, giving minimal releases,

Are you fucking dumb or what?
>>
>>84533019
>>84532909
>>84532823
>>84532699
>>84532625
Great reports, thanks for sharing. Your minis look fantastic and I'm happy to see that all your opponents had well painted armies too.
Terrain looks cool except for that weird mat though..
>>
>>84533230
In what way is any of what I said dumb or wrong?
>>
>>84532762
>>84532794
This would be tournament results however, quite a bit different from perpetual or league settings which fumbbl shows.
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>>84533332
True, and tournament format is as important format as league play is.
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>>84533249
It has had a lot of releases over the last year. Enough to push Easterlings and Dale into full fledged armies, two supplements and another faction due and updates to Lothlorien. And that's all that's just confirmed so far.
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>>84533238
Yeah all the other mats were very thematic, shame that I had to play twice on the goblin town board but that's how it goes somethimes.
For example here's a desert map which I dreaded because a lot of opponents would have outshot me substantially before I got Cirdan.
>>
>>84533394
I guess? Different strokes and all that. I have fallen into the Exhibition camp, the middle man. League is too long and tournaments are too competitive. Had enough of tournaments after being both lucky enough to get actual trophies and unfortunate in realising it ruined my enjoyment of my first team.
>>
>>84533509
Well that's one of the great things about tabletop games, you are not tied to the developers leash unlike in video games and there is no wrong way to play, just wrong groups to play with.
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>>84533623
Tell me about it. Despite playing BB on and off since 2009, from pc, tabletop and fumbbl, i still am happy i got into it. The models and game is just so great and fun memories. Never mind that unlike games, when I get super old, I still got my miniatures to look back on instead of a dead console from the 90s I can sell for 1 euro.
>>
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>>84518184
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/15/sunday-preview-sylvaneth-and-skaven-clash-in-next-weeks-pre-orders/
>Red Harvest terrain is being split into two sparse-looking ravaged lands sets
>they cheekily suggest that you could combine them to get a full battlefield as though it wasn't originally designed and sold that way
wew.
>>
>>84526899
>Dwarfs
strong Belgian style beer, Dubbel or Tripel
>Norse
honey beer or Eisbock
>northern Empire
Pils (countryside) or Porter (coast)
>southern Empire
Hefeweizen or Maerzen
>Vampires
Flanders red ale
>>
>>84533425
Sure. Meanwhile 40k games get a release every other week instead of every other other month.
>>
>>84533461
shit that's a beautiful shot.
>>
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Finished hats for the whole team.
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>>84533776
Wow, this must have bombed hard and they are desperate to recoup the costs.
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>>84534220
Could be. It was definitely better terrain than the doors and scatter shit from Catacombs, but I already have the original starter stuff which still just feels like by far the best official terrain to play Warcry on. Not to mention Red Harvest was about $50 more expensive than the original starter set and included less minis. I wonder if many already established players looked at it, had the same thought process I did, and decided to give it a pass.
>>
>>84532625
>Isildur in 200pts
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>>84534166
Yes and the game is a mess. Less GW meddling = better game.
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>>84534300
I'm sure you have a better option in mind?
Bear in mind that the scenarios were revealed before lists were submitted. So you're playing Seize the Prize.
>>
>>84533776
>>84534286
Reminds me of how B&C wrote an article on Ash Wastes and was desperate to say it was a 20% discount because those four tiny platforms are apparently worth the same $185 as the full plastic board, stairways, and column set from Dark Uprising.
>>
>>84534166
You already know that's a false argument. Stop being a dishonest cunt
>>
I kind of want to make some ad mech explorators. What kits do they kitbash nicely with?
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>>84534358
That's why I still play with the One Ring rules
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>>84533776
Why do they keep releasing terrain with these starter boxes that bloats the prices? The people who actually care about plastic terrain are a tiny subset of the people who would prefer buy a much cheaper warcry starter set that just had rules and miniatures.
>>
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Has Ash Wastes been uploaded already? I want to play with my little Fremen
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MESBG noob here, is it possible to make a good semi competitive Defense of Helms Deep army without elves? I want to run Three Hunters with Rohan but my book autism refuses to let me play elves here
>>
>>84536604
good, yes. great, no. part of what makes the legion so handy is it combines the high numbers and awesome heroes with F5, D6 troop capabilities and 30" elven shooting. especially if you shell out and get a ton of royal guard you can kinda replicate it but it's not quite the same
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>>84537201
Is there like a minimum amount of elves you're expected to bring?
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>>84537970
should pretty much always shoot for 1/3, they're just excellent troops that compliment the legion effectively
>>
So I’m thinking about getting into Necromunda, any tips on how to get started? Planning on either Von Saar or the new Nomads
>>
>>84539168
Get some minis, grab a friend and have fun.
>>
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I'm still not done the second coat on blocking in the blue but I wanted to see if I could manage this freehand, opinions on the flames? I wanted to do something other than an 8 pointed star for the hats to make them look chaos dwarfy despite the blue.
>>
>>84538736
Cool, thanks for the tips.
>>
>>84539168
Get the rulebook, get your gang's book, then try out some skirmishes, maybe only starting with 500 creds or something to get the mechanics of the game.
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>>84539474
Looks nice. Are you planning to play them with dwarf rules? Or what do you plan on using for hobos and centaurs?
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>>84536442
>Fremen
They are more like Tusken than Fremen. If you are looking for Fremen get some Antares Freeborn.
Hell, even van Saar would make better Fremen.
>>
>>84531643
Yeah, he is amazing at taking down high F heroes and monsters. Ring can neuter even The Balrog. The best part is that you cant even heroic strike out of it.
>>
>>84532672
From 2001-2005ish it *was* the onramp into miniature gaming, to the point where it reversed GW's financial decline. The movies were massive and you could walk into a shop to buy a starter set for 35-40 quid, full rulebook and easy-assemble minis and terrain included. The Battle Games in Middle-Earth magazine was hugely impactful. The only factions were "Good" and "Evil" so you could take whatever collection you had and just play with that, and the rules were very specifically written to cater to new players with few models.
Part of what's changed is the nature of tabletop games. They're advertised online through social media whether blogs, Youtube, image sites or boards, and you need to keep feeding more rules in to keep that constant churn of discussion going. MESBG doesn't have enough content to fuel enough hype to reach new gamers, and it doesn't have enough focus and simplicity to truly be an attractive ruleset for newcomers.
That's not to mention that it's based on a twenty-year-old film series where each movie is 2.5-3h long depending on version. Not many 11-14 year olds are going to give a fuck.
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>>84541127
>That's not to mention that it's based on a twenty-year-old film series where each movie is 2.5-3h long depending on version. Not many 11-14 year olds are going to give a fuck.
I don't know about that. The Peter Jackson movies really hold up well. They're maybe not as timeless as the books themselves, but every kid getting into fantasy novels will probably know about them.
>in b4 kids don't read anymore
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>>84521509
I like that he is an orc, it shows that maybe not all orcs are retards. Plus, it just works better on screen than a Black Numenorean because you dont have to explain what he is to the audience.

And he is definitely WKs subordinate, he is the lieutenant of Minas Morgul. While WK is Saurons right hand
>>
>>84541196
Id say they hold up better than the books. They are very well made blockbusters.

The books on the other hand are sometimes pretty slow and boring to a contemporary reader. Take for example like the first half of Fellowship where very little happens and Two Towers is a fairly dull story for the most part. Or the random poems, I love Tolkiens poetry, but a lot of people dont care for poetry.
>>
>>84541196
They hold up well for an adult, and definitely for a minority of kids, but as someone with 7 cousins ranging from 10ish to 14ish I can assure you they're not anywhere close to the top of the heap in terms of popularity. Certainly not enough to inspire large numbers of people to pick up a new hobby like they did in the early 2000s.
A modern nerd kid is going to see DnD (free rules, no need to build anything) and Warhammer/AoS (constant new releases, Youtube videos, Instagram, meta discussion and what-have-you). The game ain't visible even if the rules were welcoming (I'd argue that they're not).
>>
>>84540893
I'm super sold on him after this performance. He didnt break a sweat while dabbing on Bhurdur and Suladan. Once he puts on the ring it he's almost invulnerable. Even if the opponent gets some cav or monster charge into him he can just shield to roll 6 dice to win the combat.

Gotta figure out some other builds to do around him now.
>>
>>84541331
Shielding only gives you +1 die.

Unless Ive been playing it wrong all along
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>>84541357
>A model that is Shielding doubles their Attacks when making the Duel roll to see who wins the Fight
At least that's what battlescribe says. Dont have the rulebook at hand.
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>>84541384
Oh yeah. Ive been playing it wrong for like 4 years, lol.

But I dont think Ive ever actually shielded with a hero.
>>
>>84541256
I guess that is fair. The books do have long passages of descriptions that slow the pace. When I wrote that I was primarily thinking about books as a medium being more timeless than movies. Your imagination vs film effects. But yeah, you are right that the movies are a lot more accessible.

>>84541280
>Certainly not enough to inspire large numbers of people to pick up a new hobby like they did in the early 2000s.
fair enough. I remember a bunch of normies getting into wargaming because of the hype. Don't think anybody would really get into it if they don't have a predisposition for miniature wargaming in the first place.
>>
>>84541489
>The books do have long passages of descriptions that slow the pace

Like Treebeards chapter, where he spends like 30 pages on ent lore.

And the movies actually still look great due to the limited CGI and a ton of practical effects.
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My GSC Locus kitbasch , wath do You think?
1/3 photo
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>>84541903
2/3 photo
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>>84541903
3/3
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>>84541903
>>84541914
>>84541924
I dont know what I'm looking at desu senpai
>>
>>84541903
The tails too big and bends too late imo. You need a smaller tail and for it to bend at a tighter angle/smaller circle than what youve done. The cloth just looks like a blob as well rather than it covering his legs and the back being lifted by the tail. Id move the chainsword further down and have the bonesword further out as it just looks like its covering too much.
>>
>>84541903
>>84541914
>>84541924
Its uhh, inspired? Not much more one can say about it.
>>
>>84525129

Like that it's fine, but if he were to swing the bolter around 180 degrees it would tip over. I think a bike and sidecar set up would have been better.
>>
>>84542031
It's this model but without cloak
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-PL/Genestealer-Cults-Locus-2019
>>
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Better elf shot
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>>84542669
More open mouth face molds…..fucking awesome man
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>>84542720
What's your problem with mouths?
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>>84542669
Man, I just finished kitbashing a rumil model out of a galadhrim swordsman because I couldn’t find any legit rumil models for a decent price, do you think people will still let me use him?
>>
>>84539699
Dwarf rules
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>>84542729
Absolutely, no one's going to care, unless you are playing with a turbo autist
>>
>>84542729
Of course people will. Rather than be annoyed at using a conversion, I'd be more miffed with you using a basic plastic Galadhrim model for a conversion rather than one of the Galadhrim court guards as he is supposed to look like a captain for them, and they are readily available.
>>
>>84525469
Gay normie cringe
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>>84542669
New Rumil has a pretty cool helmet. Now I want new Galadhrim Guards
>>
>>84541196
I’d say that the movies hold up better as movies than the books do as literature, but that’s in large part because literature is older and has more competition and that both function primarily as escapism rather than as more complex art, Tolkien was never going to write an epic more beautiful than paradise lost or the Iliad, and in terms of English language novels with large encyclopaedic stretches LotR can’t really match up to Moby-Dick or Ulysses, Tolkien was a linguist and storyteller more than philosopher and artist, and even then his story sometimes gets a little too bogged down in his fictional histories. The movies are extremely well produced escapist (and mostly very tasteful) blockbusters drawing on those old Jason and the Argonauts type of adventure movies, they hold up far better than similarly big movies from the same time period, they’re not high art either at all but they’re soulful, and do more justice to Tolkien’s books than pretty much any other adaptation including those licensed by the estate, the hobbit movies are trash though.
>>84541280
>Certainly not enough to inspire large numbers of people to pick up a new hobby like they did in the early 2000s.
Yeah certainly true now, lotr was what made me start wargaming in the late 2000s when I was a kid, really loved the movies and the books and saw a box of dwarves in a toyshop which my dad and I painted together. But lotr’s cultural centrality has faded in the last decade, the hobbit movies didn’t help and the decade of GoT popularity(now I think fading very very fast) eclipsed it a little in the mainstream. If nerds are going to get into tt gaming it’s going to be bastardised dnd appealing to nu-nerds who probably would’ve been mostly normal people prior to the internet, and 40k appealing to more spergy people through the huge extra visibility it’s gotten in the last ten to fifteen years
>>
>>84542762
Cool, mesbg people seem a lot more relaxed about this stuff than 40k people
>>84542777
I didn’t trust myself with a more complex conversion and the court guards are resin now which I hate working with. It was just when I first got a galadhrim kit I realised there were swordsmen who could take shields so it seemed an easier fit, I still need to give him shade and highlights though, I’m not a good painter but even I need a bit more
>>
>>84543013
That's actually a really good kitbash. With the helmet plume, that immediately stands out as Rumil
>>
>>84543052
Thanks, I got the plume from some 40k ork sprues I had from years ago. I reshaped the helmet a little too because the metal ridge the galadhrim have at the front of their helmets didn’t look similar enough to rumil or the court guard helmets
>>
>>84542669
War in the North has been the best thing for this game holy shit.

Can't wait to see the new Easterling Drake model when it's announced.
>>
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I love him
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Does the new book include anything for the Army of Thror? Do they get rolled into the Erebor army in some way?

Grim Hammers are kino.
>>
>>84543194
Fucks sake, just dumpster the entire squat range before it releases. The whole thing has just been a complete embarassment so far.
>>
>>84543194
Model-wise I question the decision to paint the helmet in such a way that it draws attention to the worst part of the mini, but what do I know. The rest of the model is broadly alright, if nothing terribly exciting.
But in terms of Necromunda itself the inclusion of a dreadnought strikes me as maybe a bit much.
>>
>>84543245
At least they're not the even worse Votann shitters.
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>>84543194
I'm okay with it. As with the squat models, i think a headswap and a different paintjob will make a difference.

>>84543273
>Dreadnought
I wouldn't go that far. Looks very comparable to the Ambot and Arachni-Rig.
>>
>>84543243
no, unfortunately army of thror is still stuck in list hell
hobbit armies are a little odd since many of them are kinda already legendary legions, but army of thror is in more need than most for one. it's funny cause I think they'd be like one tweak away from being amazing
>>
>>84542729
Dude people run third party miniatures all the time even in tournaments. Nobody gives a flying fuck as long as its cool.
>>
>>84543013
Thin your paints, apply two thin coats. Slap a controlled wash on it and pick out some highlights. And base it.
This just looks terrible.
>>
>>84543194
I hate squats so fucking much
>>
>>84518184
Anyone have experience with making Bloodbowl pitches from scratch? I'm looking to make an abandoned dwarvern fortress aesthetic and I'd appreciate tips or inspiration
>>
>>84543194
I unironically love how retarded and goofy it looks.
>>
>>84543343
What's wrong with Army of Thror? Its pretty limited sure but its a powerful army. And they can do some nice allied builds with Dale.

I hate this new mentality that everyone needs some LL.
>>
>>84543358
How do you thin metallic paints in a way that doesn’t turn them to crap?
>>
>>84543474
Army of Thror itself is fine, the precedent set by them in having things like "Warrior of Erebor" which does not exist in the war of the ring period Erebor is the actual issue. Iron Hills somehow became the War of the Ring period dwarven army despite the fact that the Army of Thror models would make much more sense in the context and now they have nowhere left to expand to.
>>
>>84543521
Only a little bit of water with your brush. Can be tricky but you get the hang of it pretty easily.
Regular paints should be no problem.
Hard to tell from the picture exactly but probably just by doing a thin coat to make all the areas neat and then washing would be already a massive improvement. And dont skip on highlighting the non metallic parts at least. It takes no time at all and makes the model pop. Highlighting cloth and skin is the best part of miniature painting.
>>
>>84532672

Saying the "minis look nice" is a pretty bold statement. Maybe some of the newer stuff is good, but all the core plastics are quite frankly super garbo that have super soft details, are incredibly monopose, and have lots of spots just entirely missing detail because the models are sculpted to be as close to one-piece as possible so they can't have overhangs and shit.
>>
>>84543167
>Can't wait to see the new Easterling Drake model when it's announced.
Got some bad news for you then. There's a reason they brought the Moria dragon model back into rotation, and it's not for Moria lists.
>>
>>84543885
Not even feeling bad, that dragon is cool. Stick some greenstuff armour panels or easterling shields on it and you're sorted.
>>
>>84543885
>>84543910
Imagine making these kinds of comments without even taking the slightest look at the profile.
>F4 S4 D5 A2 W2 infantry warrior model at 20p
>I think the Moria Dragon with the 12cm Oval base is the best model to represent this.
>>
>>84543194
I like it
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>>84543643
I wasn’t finished painting him, I was going to do a wash and highlights for sure, I’ll definitely take your advice on metal, I always have the most trouble with metallic paints
>>
>>84543194
This is unironically probably the best squat model we've seen so far.
>>
>>84543885
>Got some bad news for you then. There's a reason they brought the Moria dragon model back into rotation, and it's not for Moria lists.

The drake is not a dragon, dipshit
>>
>>84543919
I don't even know how to play the game, I just like the minis
>>
>>84543194
>a heavy bolter
>some sort of shoulder weapon
>instant death tier melee weapon
>probably a 2+ or 3+ save
This thing's gonna be pretty tasty. Cawdor are gonna really need that pulpit wagon for Ash Wastes.
>>
>>84543983
It's going to be either a 25mm base, in which the Moria Cave Drake's baby will be the model to represent it (unlikely) or a new Forge World model with a 40mm base sold in sets of two for £35 (very likely).
>>
>>84543983

Did they lift the copyright mess with New Line of a few years back, in which no LoTR line model/part could be used or integrated in any GW-produced-or-sponsored material (tournaments, Golden Demons, etc...) that was not Lord of The Rings?
>>
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>>84544018
Its all I want
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>>84544066
>>84544018
Pulpitec and Lawmaster are all I want for Ashwastes. If those are gonna be a thing I won't even bitch at the inevitable hoversled or whatever shit they're gonna give Van Saar, honest.
>>
>>84544104
I hope Van Saar get some kind of spider crawler, fits with their theme and stays away from hover-shittery.
>>
>>84544047
That wasn't a mess, that was just a rule that they didn't want middle-earth mixing with the warhammer garbage. and no, that rule still exisits
>>
>>84544181

I can only use your stuff in any sanctioned location and event, and then you tell me that I can't even use some of YOUR stuff because weebly-woobly reasons and that I have to take the center-piece Hive Tyrant out of the frame because it has balrog wings? Fuck that, that's a mess in my book.
>>
>>84544454
Just go full third party and fuck 'em
>>
Do Ash Waste nomads have more lore than "no one knows what they are"?
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>>84545262
Yeah they smell
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>>84545262
They are shland nomads and fremen.
So read Dune, and read Morrowind lore then splash some Mad Max, only (You) don't know what they are.
>>
>>84544454
I don't see how it's a mess when New Line wanted to keep the warhammer trash out of the good models and game
>>
I hate legions in MESBG.
I hate how they're making it more like AOS and nudging you into playing specific theme armies, with the result of a superstructure of parasitic mechanics that bloat the game.
I hate how these 'thematic' choices just means that people end up playing the same armies over and over again because you need to get those sweet bonuses, you can't just put models together because they fit YOUR theme or because their individual profiles intrinsecally work well together, can you?

I also hate that the Hobbit armies have so many nonsensical units that are just stupidly strong compared to their LOTR counterparts in terms of raw stats, even if they're not worth the price. Why the fuck does Thorin have the same Fight as Aragorn, and Azog has even more? Why is there suddenly orcs that do animu dual-wielding and get fucking +1 Attack? Why are the three trolls, which for all intents and purposes are just three dumb, lazy hill trolls, stronger than actual war trolls?
>>
>>84545386
>Why is there suddenly orcs that do animu dual-wielding and get fucking +1 Attack?
You mean like Feral Uruks, Morgul Stalkers, Corsair Reavers, Easterling Acolytes off the top of my head
>>
>>84544104
I pray for mechanical spider.
>>
Anyone got some Iron Hills recasters? Fuck paying those hilarious FW prices.
>>
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>>84543194
I would buy it if it was plastic. I won't give a single cent to those FW retards and I hope Citadel will shut down this fucking circus soon.
>>
>>84545837
Become recastpilled. Hilariously low price, same quality. I got whole pre-war necromunda and blood bowl FW range, and it barely costed anything.
>>
>>84545882
Nah I work with metal and plastic exclusively. I'm simply gonna spend those money on another game if Citadel doesn't want my money.
>>
>>84545386
You've never played it, have you.
>>
>>84545386
See >>84541127
Gaming advertising is almost entirely through social media, and you need layers of bullshit army building rules and combos to sustain that online discussion.
As long as MESBG is being developed by GW, it will only get more complicated and ridiculous.
>>
>>84543194
>bigger than a classic boxnaught
Oh no no no, manlet bros.
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>>84546139
>As long as MESBG is being developed by GW, it will only get more complicated and ridiculous.
>Has been basically unchanged for 20+ years
Christ you people are fucking stupid
>>
>>84546556
Oh yeah nigga? Then where the fuck my different flavours of black numenoréans at huh?
>>
>>84546556
>Has been basically unchanged for 20+ years
I've been playing for that 20+ years, and while the changes are slow, they are there and they bog the game down.
Special moves for every weapon type plus shields, Legendary Legions, having to track fucking kills as Fellowship members combo off one another, one million Heroic action types, casters out the wazoo with a spell library that's separate from the unit profiles for some unholy reason. They're not massive changes, the game isn't ruined yet, but it's definitely sagging around the waist and GW is only ever going to add rules.
MESBG used to be a trim athlete, now it's trying to ignore its expanding waistline.
>>
>>84545386
>complaint that LL make you run specific niche armies that all look the same
That's the fucking point you retard. They're reenactment armies that represent specific events in the story. If you want to run "your army" then just play the generic army rules. You can't complain that they're weaker as most generic faction rules are just as good or better than their LLs.
>hurr they're making it into aos
You don't even know how AoS build their lists do you?
>>
>>84546787
>GW is only ever going to add rules
Each edition has cut out stuff, Hobbit cut out the slow ass fuck volley fire rules and idiotic warrior spam, and mesbg cut down on the generic Heroic actions and gave heroes some character.
>>
>>84546787
I will never understand why people complain about the special strikes.
Feinting is boring if its free but stab meanwhile is a very nice tradeoff. Piercing strike is obviously a great one. Bash can turn a game if you get it off against some hero. And shielding is fantastic.
They bring a lot to the game and are easy to remember and fun.
The only semi valid complaint is that they slow the game down but that only happens if you're a troglodyte who rolls every single piercing strike or feint reduction even when its completely unnecessary.
>>
>>84546787
>ve been playing for that 20+ years
No you haven't.
>>
>>84545262
They likely have some access to archeotech given their blast rifles and the weird weather control staff the shaman has going on.
>>
>>84518539
true but mordheim is MOSTLY fairly good/ playable warbands where most people play the OP ones or atleast the most viable ones
ive only ever seen 1 tomb guard warband
like beastmen are much better than they are in other incarnations, but theyre still lower teir desu
>>
>>84544104
so we know the next gang is going to be a no new model ork gang right? that makes the most sense, especially with ash wastes vehicles and stuff
>>
>>84546942
Beastmen are pretty strong out the gate in Mordheim. They only really get worse if you have warbands that are able to leverage strong shooting.
>>
>>84547075
is there ANY situation that tomb guard excel in? or are they just fucked with their situational special rules, and very weak nature
>>
>>84547044
Probably, I wouldn't be surprised with a Book of Ruin style updated Genestealer gang with vehicles and a ork gang in the same book.
>>
>>84547108
theres not a whole lot of gangs left that they can just port over, shanty town gangs, scavies, brats and spyrers maybe, ratskins too i guess but im not sure how theyre going to redo them with how gw is nowadays
>>
>>84547103
The Arabyan warbands as a whole are weaker than the base Mordheim warbands, in much the same way as the Lustria warbands as a whole are stronger. I wouldn't advise using either unedited with the core rulebook/Empire in Flames warbands.

My initial thoughts on Tomb Guardians:
>the warband as a whole needs a way around 'May not run'. I would suggest letting all undead within a certain radius of the Tomb Lord and Liche Priest run. Unlike core rulebook Undead, you don't have a super fast vampire, mortal other heroes and dire wolves.
>I would make asp arrows and Nehekaran javelins available to everyone in the warband. I would reduce the cost of the Serpent Staff to 15gc or 20gc.
Heroes:
>the Tomb Lord has an incredible statline, but he's slow and he's also incredibly expensive. I would suggest losing either the T5 or the W3 and giving him a cost more in line with the Vampire - those drops in M and I are a big deal anyway.
>the warband should have 5 heroes. I dislike the hero options of undead 'Acolytes' filling out. I would suggest adding a 'Tomb Champion' or whatever, a melee hero version of the Tomb Guardian henchman. And I would suggest getting rid of the Acolytes and using mortal servants of the Tomb Lord as the last two options: similar to the Dregs in the Undead warband (this is borne out by Khemri lore anyway).
>the Liche Priest is probably slightly overcosted too. I think his spells are pretty much fine (I'd change them a bit but not a lot)
Henchmen:
>skeletons have +1 I on zombies and can use equipment: is that worth 5gc? IMO probably not. I'd drop them to 15.
>tomb guardians seem fine though - I would make them 0-5 rather than 0-2 in line with most other warbands
>tomb scorpions also seem fine and I think a 0-3 limit is pretty fair, although you could up this as well if you wanted (just bear in mind you open to the gates to scorpion spam if you do)
>>
>>84547164
Scavvies, Brats and Spyrers all definitely fit fine in Nucromunda. I don't think they'll do Ratskins - they're bringing over the tribal elements of Ratskins into AWN.
>>
That said, Brats and Spyrers basically fill the same niche so you probably have to change the fluff of one of them if you want to do both. Spyrers would work as a secretive hunting guild.
>>
>>84543194
Gives me Saturnine terminator armor vibes. Too bad it's FW resinshit.
>>
>>84543243
Lmao, those two look like they're golfing.
>>
>>84543474
they can do some OK things but the army is way too limited to be properly effective. no bows, no cavalry, very average courage, they have decent numbers and good durability (and some nice heroes) but it's just a little too one-note. their allies can patch things but the point it becomes very effective you're basically playing another army

they just don't have the ability to project strength that well, and as MESBG is more about board control than raw killing power, they feel it.
>>
>>84545386
lmfao this post reeks of secondary
post models retard
>>
>>84546787
>having to track fucking kills as Fellowship members combo off one another
A) your army has 8 models, I don't think a miniscule amount of bookkeeping is that hard when your opponent has 30-40
B) it's two of those 8 you mong, literally just get a fucking piece of paper
>Special moves for every weapon type plus shields
I agree special strikes are clunky but shields are fine, and special strikes are pretty easy to ignore. you can outright say you don't want to use them (which I do with newer players) and even then, the only common one with any time delay is if a piercing striker loses. bash/stun pops up, but as it's almost entirely against heroes/monsters/very elite models I don't see an issue with them.

same with the heroics, which ones are problematic? the whole list is short and simple, the ones that are bummers (challenge, resolve, maybe strength) are only so cause they're terrible ways to spend might. if challenge and resolve were abilities, and strength something more reliable and effective, they'd be cool
>>
>>84547044
>so we know
We *know* nothing. Orks would't even make all that much sense.
>>
>>84547882
How everyone can tell you've never held a golfclub before
>>
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Someone have an Almanac pdf to share?
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Finished blocking in colors and deciding on the whole paint scheme.
Now just to wash, edge highlight.. and then do the other 16 dudes.
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>>84549101
Nice one bebé
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>>84549127
Have some more.
>>
>druzhag can be taken in new assault on lorien LL alongside all the animals
>3+ rerollable to cast enrage beast, effectively 90% chance to go off
>can basically go around punting F5, S6, 4A poison spiders at people that can one-hit a lot of heroes when combined with a bat swarm
I was unsure about this legion at first but the combo of a massive orc/goblin horde with some pretty funny magic and beast power might be strong
>>
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how would you design/balance blood bowl teams for the other two chaos gods without their own teams?
>inb4 slannesh team w/ tentacles
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>>84532512
Enlighten us then, please tell how the higher proccing AS is an upgrade and how Vamps play better with it.
>>
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Finished this Blitzer, that's one whole dude for today.
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Anyone have any clue where this is from? Name of the 3D artist maybe?
>>
My last LOTR re-read was 4 years ago so I'm a bit rusty but how many battles between isengard and rohan were there?
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>>84550227
Yeah and the anti-shooting meme really sells it
>>
>>84551440
First and second fords of Isen, the skirmish between Eomer's eored and Ugluk's uruk-hai, Hornburg, and an unspecified number of village raids in the westfold.
>>
>prowlers and marauder already sold out
GODDAMN IT
Yes, I know they'll be back in a bit.
>>
>>84550622
Slaanesh is mentioned to be very ball orientated and good at touchdowns in the Khorne Spike. Ag 2+ but lightly armoured would be it I think with a dash of disturbing presence.

Tzeentch is mentioned to be all abiut trickery, so maybe stunty chaos?
>>
>>84547325
arabyan nomads seem like a decent merc warband with weaker chaff but ability to take a wizard with alright spells
my main problem with them is just finding narrative reason for them and to find models to convert for them
>>
>>84550622
>tzeentch
>every player has grab, sidestep, leap
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>>84552491
>Slaanesh is mentioned to be very ball orientated
>ball oriented
lol
>>84552757
>grab, sidestep, leap
>not stunty blue horrors with 3 arms that split into even stuntier yellow horrors when suffering a casualty
>yellow horrors have swarm
>>
>>84552491
>>84552789
I like the fumbl stunty league idea of horrors having both TTM and right stuff. Secret weapons and weird skill combos with mediocre statlines sounds fun and would be a nice change from the 4 warriors, 4 gors and cultists with minor skill adjustments that the other chosen teams have.
>>
>>84552693
Which Araby warband are we talking about? Tomb Raiders? They start with 4 heroes and pay over the odds for champions, they're categorically worse than rulebook Human Mercs. The magic lore is at best OK too.

The Arabyan Tribesmen book published later is on a par with rulebook Mercs IMO. No innate benefit but Scholar gives good options as a unique hero, 3 champs set-up, access to an efficient melee henchman type and a great equipment list (starting access to toughened leathers and cheap mounts). It probably falls somewhere between Middenheim and Reikland.
>>
So if I have my hands on some Aeronautica plastics and Titanicus models. Where might one source ground units for Epic? 3d print, Ebay or are there better ways?
>>
>>84553011
Etsy?
>>
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>necromunda ash wastes
>180 pound in the UK
>475 AUD in australia
How does this make sense?
>>
>>84553200
People have jobs
>>
>>84553209
Yeah I guess it still feels scummy that GW can get away with this though
Just because one country has a higher minimum wage than another doesn't mean that they should be able to profit 20% extra for doing nothing
>>
>>84553200
>>84553209
>>84553240
>go to california
>shoplift less than 950 freedom bucks in a GW store
>go home with your free army an never have to worry about repercussions
>>
>>84553265
I think it's morally wrong to steal
>>
>>84553270
of course it's morally wrong, but legally free of consequences
>>
>>84553265
But I'm not black
>>
>>84552757
Tzeentch going full ham on board manipulation would be very funny.
Grab, Sidestep, Fend and Hypnotic Gaze should all be present on at least one positional. Throw Team-mate and Fumblerooskie would let you play for bullshit schemes. On the other hand, no in-built safety traits would punish you hard.
>>
>>84553292
Does the store not have CCTV?
>>
>>84553722
california, man. In San Francisco people just shit in the streets.
>>
>>84553751
Return to monke
>>
>>84553292
>but legally free of consequences
Enjoy your free, daily ass rapes
>>
>>84553751
Going by /v/ I thought the US was in the year 2200 in how much they say it is the best. Guess Cali is off my travel list.
>>
>>84553270
cuck
>>
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>>84550622
This how they used to be in third edition
>>
How big are actually the Formoroid Crushers hands? Would an ogre or giant hand fit in instead? I want one as giant for Blood Bowl.
>>
>>84553270
Not from Californian store owners.
>>
>>84551343
it was sold by a ukie friend, as you can imagine he is pretty busy atm
>>
what to take in a 1 mil roster for league as vamps? yeah i know im a masochist. thinking 4 vamps, 8 thralls, 3 RRs, 3 extra fans for exactly 1 mil
>>
>>84554450
This might be old knowledge but I'd drop a vamp for more more rerolls and thralls.
>>
>>84554450
3 vamps max if you're asking this question, 2 is comfy to start, 3 rerolls is not enough for vampires, assume you need one reroll every turn for a vampire rolling bad.
>>
>>84554651
>>84554663

i went 2-1-1 in a sevens tournament over the weekend with 4 vamps 4 thralls and only a reroll from a leader vamp surely elevens cant be that much worse
>>
>>84554703
>It's okay guys, I'm in the middle of a streak of beginner's luck, I don't need advice!
Then don't ask for it.
>>
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>>84554357
Is this pic any use anon?
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>>84554450

6 Vampires, 5 Thralls, Apothecary, 1TRR
>>
>>84553893
you need to filter your information, some people would even have you believe that having a mass shooting every other month is perfectly normal for a civilized country
>>
>>84553270
In California is morally correct to do it. The woke have to learn their stupid actions have consequences.
I'm not sure if my latino as counts or the legal part is only valid for Niggas.
>>
>>84554357
remember when this and the Sphiranx were released and for a hot second it looked like AOS' designs were heading up for once? :')
>>
>>84554724
Not really, I'd need a comparison with a giant (already checked ogres googling a bit, they are small). But thank you.
>>
>>84554722
if i wanted a team full of hobgoblins i would just play chaos dwarfs and jam a couple of centaurs. vamps are vamps and the only advantage the team has is vamps.
>>84554726
i might do it
>>
>>84554766
okay hold on
>>
>>84554740
Aren't gringos using like 2+ people shot to count them as mass shooting? Which would make a random robbery anywhere a mass shooting
>>
>>84554724
I really wish model companies would put the actual size of the model in the descriptions.
Even in scale models you get wonky things even though we know how big the real thing is suppose to be.
>>
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>>84554766
>>84554790
Better? This was the only giant model I have sorry
>>
>>84554726
Drop the RR for more fans, keeps the steady supply of thralls flowing.
>>
>>84554357
Giant hand? Probably
Ogre hand? Definitely not
>>
>>84554772
Great, play whatever you want.
Just don't come in here asking for advice and then turn around and talk down to us like you know it all.
You're a n00b, your first game was weeks ago and you haven't even played real Blood Bowl yet.
But sure, you know it all bud.
>>
>>84554838
>Great, play whatever you want.
>Just don't come in here asking for advice and then turn around and talk down to us like you know it all.
that's well said anon

>and you haven't even played real Blood Bowl yet
this however kinda makes you sound like a hyperfixated antagonist from a sports movie for kids from the 90's
>>
>>84554984
Kobra Kai never dies, nerd.
>>
>>84554838

desu i wasnt even being that combative i was just trying to get perspective - from what ive played with vamps RRs arent the primary way to manage animal savagery, thralls are, and having enough vamps to do silly cagebusting hypnogaze stuff and similar stunts seems important to being able to pull off their gameplan. i hear you recommending 2-3 vamps and i just dont see how that build can do anything that other teams dont do better, im not trying to talk down to you im trying to offer my perspective and get anything other than "no youre wrong". if you arent willing to explain why im wrong dont get offended if im not going to take a single throwaway sentence as gospel.
>>
>>84554806
So ogre hands are too small and troll hands are too big, huh. Thanks. What giant is that? Is cool as fuck.
>>
>>84555148
Not him but imo 5 vamps, 3 rr is your best bet. Spam hypno gaze like you got Diarrhea and keep blitzing the carrier. You got to play vamps mega fast and mega aggressive.
>>
>>84555233

see this makes sense to me as it really seems like being able to make effectively an additional blitz per turn per vampire via hypnogaze is absolutely massive and should be exploited to its fullest
>>
>>84555186
>So ogre hands are too small and troll hands are too big, huh.
Then the mancrusha gargants should be just right
>>
>>84555257
Compared to 7s, full game has bigger pitch so you can't score as fast = more things can go wrong. Teams have more positionals and rerolls = less fuck ups from your opponent and the vamps have relatively less impact on the pitch. Also it's that many players more bashing your thralls while you bash your thralls over more turns than in 7s. Meaning you get less opportunities (or less impactful ones) to capitalise on opponent's mistakes while you get more chances to fuck up your own team, and vamps have a built-in fuck up mechanic in the animal savagery. Meaning you will run more often into reliability problems in normal BB than in 7s compared to the t2 or t1 teams at least.
>>
>>84554984
> a hyperfixated antagonist from a sports movie
That's a lot of words just to say "Man"
>>
>>84556253
That's like saying that pomegranate is an awful lot of letters to say fruit.
>>
>>84555186
That's the Jotnar model from Conquest last argument of kings
>>
>>84556831
>hilariously bad moldlines and gaps
>crude oversized details
>stiff pose
the signs were all there
>>
>>84554806
getting that far in to assembly without cleaning mold lines... geez. that's gonna suck.
>>
>>84553209
more pointedly, stupid people have jobs
>>
>>84556465
And thats extra words to say "I agree with you anon"
>>
So, i have been told that defence of the north has been leaked. Is there anything interesting in it?
>>
>>84557490
>defence of the north has been leaked.
yes, few pics in the archive but I think you'd have to go to youtube or r*ddit to find full screencaps
>Is there anything interesting in it?
yes, though maybe not hugely impactful. big surprises are easterlings getting a 20pt mini-dragon drake, lothlorien getting the third elf brother orophin (his rules suck), and the legendary legions being completely nonsensical; no elven legions at all, but dale gets one that's just free stuff for the army list, orcs get two, and beornings surprised everyone by existing, and then getting a full legion.
if you've been following the preview drips that's most of the surprises, though dragon emp being only 170 points is pretty shocking too
>>
>>84558106
Alright, thanks m8. Im gonna check on the tube, they have nice leaks from time to time.
Beornings sound nice, but no elven legion souns awfull. Galadriel and her fellow trehuggers deserve their own stuff for once
>>
>>84553270
not from either GW or californians



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