What system measures morality/karma/alignment the best?
>>84517304NihilismOh, you meant RPG system? Uh, that edition of WoD where you lose Humanity from going to college.
>MoralitySotDL (taking Morality as inverse value of Corruption)>KarmaShadowrun, obviously>AlignmentDnD (not because it's particularly good, but because it's the only system that does)
>>84517304it's called roleplaying
The ones that don’t.
>J-ja! Draw me all cool style Friedrich!
>>84517304I'm not really a fan of any morality system that isn't a reflection of what your character has actually done. So if I'm going to use a morality stat I want it to really be about what's happened in game and who my PC is and what they've done. On that front I think Chronicles of Darkness (nWoD2e) has the best set of themEach gameline has it's own "Morality" stat and each function similarly but has it's own set of conditions, effects, and flavour to best sell the specific themes and tones of each splat. As a general rule they are rated from 10 to 0, you'll start at 7, and 10 represents the "good" side of the scale, and 0 the "bad". There will be a set of Breaking Points across the scale and when you do a thing that is a Breaking Point of equal or lower level than your Morality you risk losing a point. Typically it's hard to maintain a high Morality statFor example Vampire: The Requiem 2e has Humanity. This is about how well you can reconcile who you were with what you now are. I've included the full list of sample Breaking Points to give you an idea of the direction the mechanic has. It's not strictly about being good or evil, but it's about being human. As your Humanity drops you have a harder time relating to humans, you become more callous and jaded, and can eventually become an unreasoning monster. The further you drift the more sunlight hurts you, the worse other banes get, and the longer torpor lasts. Anything that makes you confront your vampiric nature will make you lose Humanity, whether you'd call the act "good" doesn't matterAll the gamelines do things a little differently but I'm a really big fan of the mechanics for them all. I'd be happy to go over the others too, if anyone cares. Those would be Clarity for Changelings, Cover for Demons, Loyalty/Conviction for Deviants, Harmony for Werewolves, Integrity for Mortals/Hunters, Memory for Mummies, Pilgrimage for Prometheans, Stability for Deviants, Synergy for Sin-Eaters, and Wisdom for Mages
>>84517561>one month wthout active human contact>impassionated killingNonsense, putting those on the same level of dehumanization is bullshit.
>>84517304My favorite is Virtue and Vise system from Chronicles of Darkness. Virtue is the best part of your character. Vise is the worst part of your character. This make you start with character who is partially good and partially bad. By roleplaying character can go one side or another. And system actually awards players for roleplaying by giving the willpower points to spend later in game.
>>84517587Makes enough sense to me, but "human contact" requires some explanation in this context>Many breaking points reference human contact. This refers to interaction, usually verbal. While it does not have to be positive interaction, it should be human in nature, and meaningful. Jumping a derelict in an alley, feeding, and fleeing is not interaction. Nor is tying up an enemy’s ghoul and torturing her in a basement. However, the act of feeding the captive or finding the derelict shelter for the night could beThis isn't about human characters, and isn't a reflection on how a human reacts to these things. This is a vampire spending their nights with other undead and their encounters with the living being solely about feeding, or worse. It's a month of constant reminders that they're not human any more, and a month lacking the grounding that meaningful social interactions with humans brings. It's total integration into the All Night Society or the total rejection of human society. Either way its a lot of time proving that you're a monster now. Impassioned killing is a snap judgement that hits you all at once, but a month of just using people like food wears you down graduallyEither way "level of dehumanization" probably isn't the best way to look at this, rather that something at Humanity 3 effects a cynical and jaded vampire as well as one that's immersing themselves in mortal affairs. They'll both only drop 1 point from it. The list is only suggestions too, you should alter it to suit your game and character. You can also inure yourself to specific BPs by taking banes, which are the minor folkloric weaknesses vampires tend to have. See attachedAlso you misread the first one. It's "active without human contact", not "without active human contact". Which is to say that being in torpor, the potentially centuries long death-like sleep vampires enter when starved, grievously wounded, or occasionally willingly, doesn't count against that. Torpor has its own BPs
>>84517788Oh yeah, Anchors are a pretty great system too. I think you missed out the best part about the Virtues and Vices though, which is they can be basically anything. Unlike 1e in which had seven heavenly virtues and the seven deadly sins. It's just way more interesting. And a Virtue for one person can be a Vice for another, Competitive appears in both lists. As a Virtue it can be about pushing yourself to perform the best you can and the honour of fair contest, but as a Vice it can be just about winning and seeing someone else lose. So you get a lot more freedom there now, and it also works better for monsters. They changed it because it doesn't work as well for every supernatural, lots got unique things to better play to their themes.Mortals, mages, hunters, demons, and any lesser splat all uses that system. Vampire is Mask and Dirge, representing the façade that helps hide their true nature, and the truth behind the lies. Werewolves get Blood and Bone, who they are on the hunt and at home. Prometheans get Elpis and Torment, what interests them most about humanity and what distances them from it. Changelings have Needle and Thread, their core personality and their key motivation. Sin-Eaters have Root and Bloom, something that affirms that they died and what they do with their second chance. Mummies get Balance and Burden, a more black and white version of Vice and Virtue, their more laudable aspects and their most dangerous ones. Deviant gets Loyalty and Conviction, people you want to protect and things you want to destroy. Although that serves as their morality too so it's got more going on.There are also Touchstones, which are people or objects that ground some splats to their lives. Essentially these just help with morality loss. Some of these work differently than others, but they're fairly minor outside of Deviant. See here for more info and examples.http://wodcodex.com/wiki/Anchors_(2nd_Edition)>>84517797More bane examples if people care.
>>84517304Unironically RIRTS deserves a mention
>>84519550Well! I actually prefer system from 1st edition. I think 2ed edition just miss some of the charm of the previous editions (especially Changeling the Lost).
>>84520143You think 1e had better anchors than 2e? Explain please. That's a new one.
>>84517304if you can pull off tracking it, the Ultima 4 virtuesand the Ultima 6 virtuesand the Ultima 7-2 virtues
>>84517364Nothing has made me closer to a amoral monster than High School. Conversely I'm now a fucking Saint thanks to having survived that horrible ordeal.
>>84520165It is just simple and easy. Just pick one of seven options and you are good to go. Additionally it maybe because catholic in real life and I'm used to seven heavenly virtues and seven deadly sins.
>>84517364first post is once again the best post
>>84517304Dungeons: The Dragoning 40K 7th Edition. Each deity and major philosophy has its own track, and literally all that matters is that you live in accordance with the values you hold dear. Quite possibly the most based system is existence.
>>84517366Shadowrun karma is just Action Points.
There is nothing wrong with D&D alignment.
The force in sw3e
>>84521069I guess. Although 2e stuff isn't exactly more complicated if you just want to pick from a list. They all provide them. The 1e method really suffers for three reasons IMO. Firstly it prescribes Christian morality to everything which is largely senseless. Even if you assume it's a universal human philosophy it's certainly not one that applies to the undead. It constrains things to a outlook that makes little sense from their PoVs. Next, it's a woefully shallow look at even just humanity. People are far more complex than that and simply don't neatly fall into any of those camps on the whole. While the seven virtues and vices might be things to strive for and avoid it's not all there is to strive for and avoid. So it just doesn't sum up the best and worst aspects of a lot of interesting characters. Finally, it's inherently unbalanced in narrative interest and weight. Sloth is the major outlier in that it's very difficult to make that actually interesting consistently, and very easy to make it something that halts momentum. Things like Envy mechanically come with less risk than things like Wrath, but the payoff is the same. Temperance is just Prudence that's easier to trigger.
>>84517587Humanity is better thought of as your level of denial of your nature as a monster.
>>84532734>Firstly it prescribes Christian morality to everything which is largely senseless. Even if you assume it's a universal human philosophy it's certainly not one that applies to the undead. It constrains things to a outlook that makes little sense from their PoVs. It doesn't matter if it "makes sense" that vampires have an outlook of morality that differs with humanity; the purpose is to assign an objective moral code to the universe that all characters are bound to follow whether they believe it fits their personal moral code. Vampires can view the world from the perspective that humans are short-lived foodstuffs, it doesn't alter the fact that murdering them to sate their hunger is immoral and destructive to the vestiges of their souls.
>>84532958The fuck are you talking about? That's got nothing to do with anything I mentioned. Nor is it anything to do with CofD on the whole because there isn't a universal objective moral code in that game anyway.