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the magic system in every RPG i've seen is so poorly implemented and executed, it seemingly always results in magic users being way more powerful than every other character that could be played, is there no other way to do such mechanics that doesn't seem like a sacred cow afterthought?
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>>84515632
have you tried playing GURPS? Or Savage Worlds? Or White Wolf's Mage (granted in Mage, it works because every PC is a mage)?
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>>84515632
>the magic system in every RPG i've seen is so poorly implemented and executed, it seemingly always results in magic users being way more powerful than every other character
On a basic level there has to be a reason for why someone would rather be a mage over a fighter or something else. Why would you do that if magic does not offer unique benefits?
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>>84515645
>have you tried playing GURPS? Or Savage Worlds?
What do those systems do differently? Because from what I know both systems have a lot of optional rules so you can't say that there is a "GURPS way to do magic" or a savage worlds way to do magic.
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I personally think that pint buy systems handle magic and powers better than other systems. Games where you can "build" your own powers by deciding what effects they will have. So systems like Big Eyes Small Mouth, HERO system and the like.
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>>84515632
I'm sure there is, but most RPG systems are created either by teams of freelancers who don't actually care, or by teams of drama students who can't into either math or game design. There's also a very strong culture of "rules don't actually matter" in current role playing, and why would people who don't care about the rules worry about whether the rules are good?
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>>84516533
Unique is fine. It might even be fine if the player saw any real, significant drawbacks but was more powerful for it. Having spent years studying it doesn’t count, because that’s never actually part of the game. The player just gets to decide that happened.
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Unironically Pathfinder Second Edition. Spellcasters are basically pure support there and for the first time in the history of games the build people meme about is a fighter build.
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>>84517254
>Having spent years studying it doesn’t count, because that’s never actually part of the game
You can actually work with that, just make it so magic takes a long time to study and implement that in game play by making it so casters take longer to level up.
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This might help.
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>>84515632
Take a look at Legends of the Wulin. Most every internal art is some kind of magic like throwing around fire or lightning, though some more mundane, in a relative sense. Then there's secret arts (doctor, warrior, courtier, priest, scholar) that sound more mundane, but can produce effects which are more or less magic. Priests' arts can even provoke curses. Not everything is perfectly balanced, but it's never a simple matter of magic above mundane. Power is power.
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>>84515632
Trudvang's system makes magic feel mystical and hard to contain, while neither making the caster under or overpowered.
Plus It actively fucks things over the more you used It since Trudvang's magic is "take from one place to another".
So if you make something stronger, anothe thing somewhere far away get weaker. Fire makes cold etc, etc. But the more you do It and the stronger effects you want to achieve, the closer the consequences happen and the stronger they are.
It's really cool
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>>84517234
>There's also a very strong culture of "rules don't actually matter"
hate this bullshite so damn much, if you don't ground RPGs in mechanics then the whole thing just falls apart
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>>84517925
Agreed. It's especially egregious with long-ass rulebooks like DnD and Pathfinder - why the fuck did we just read a thousand pages of rules if we're not gonna use them?
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>>84515632
4e.
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>>84515632
Give every class their own magics, it's not a problem if thw wizard is overpowered if every other class is even more overpowered in their own unique way.
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>>84515632
>the magic system in every RPG i've seen
So, 5e?
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I don't mind as usually magic usets are far weaker at lower level and far less survivable. If the DM is doing their job right and players are not protecting their armourless low health magic users than can have their spells interupted or countered than they won't make it to be overpowered. However if the magic users are op at low level its just bad.
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>>84518364
that's the one, which is why it's not a problem that others are similar, because 5e is the only one, and not those other ones too
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>>84515632
If you play any edition of D&D, use GLOG's magic and never look back
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>>84515632
In my system, spells and martial maneuvers are constructed on the fly using the same system.
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>>84515632
I've been doing a Savage worlds ETU game and the magic is really fun. Spells take a lot of time to cast and require you to be precise and prepared (My character often has to gather components during downtime.) . Also if you fuck them up the consequences can be catastrophic.
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>>84517454
>>84517254
Older editions of DnD did this. unequal levelling, plus Mages never grew beyond early game levels of survivability. Sure they could manipulate the forces of the universe, but that never changed the fact that theyre an old man in a robe. The big issue was letting wizard mains write 3rd edition and beyond.
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>>84519385
I'm the B/X+GLOG spellsfag. My wizards don't level up from XP like everyone else, instead based on how many spells they discover and learn.
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>>84515632
Include supernatural powers other than magic and have their functions reinforce their differences, while not making any one too much more powerful than the others.



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