the history of Post Apocalyptical fiction (and lots of genre fiction in general like Cyberpunk) tends to revolve around the anxieties of society at the time of creation. Intellectual properties like Fallout and Mad Max are rooted in the Nuclear fears of the late 20th century and humanities ability to potentially destroy itself in a self defeating and idiotic exchange of weapons fire, a natural conclusion of the post-romantic lament of modern warfare that began in the wake of World War 1.As the 20th century draws closer to a conclusion however, the fear that a singular nuclear exchange could result in complete global devastation and civilization destroying war (recent global events not withstanding, lets not talk about the news). Much like Cyberpunk, rooted in the anxieties of consumerism and globalism, the nuclear apocolypse was a product of it's time which has come past due and not arrived (unlike cyberpunk, which just became reality).Or, in other words, nobody is really scared of Nukes anymore (again lets not discuss). However the notion, a setting where humanity has been scoured to dwelling in the rotting ruin of it's own world, crawling through the detritus of a once greater civilization like worms has always been compelling to us since ancient times, inspired by the fall of Rome or the burning of Alexandria or the Black Plague, and other similar events.If you were to create a NEW post apocolyptic setting for a NEW age, where we now know nukes won't destroy everything instantly and simultaneously and also nobody is turning into cool mutants, what form would it take? What would be your excuse for ending the world? What genre conventions would you keep and which ones would you discard?
>>84494766For me, the apocolypse scenario that makes the most sense (accepting that it can never really make sense or be grounded) is some sort of solar activity, a heightening of the suns radiation or expansion of it's radius, combined with increased solar flare activity that overwhelms earths natural protection, cooking portions of the world and frying all the technology above an industrial revolution level. This does sort of cause you to lose out on a genre staple, which is the melancholia that results from knowing humanity did this to itself - a natural disaster doesn't have the same zing of fucking yourselfOther scenarios, presented in material like Pheonix Point or Degenesis, suppose an invasive alien presence that causes a massive change in earths biosphere, a zombie or plague apocolypse on steroids, one with unknowable and incomprehensible origins or goals, potentially directed by a malign intelligence. This has the benefits of providing lots of non human enemies to kill. The supernatural mystery of Ayyyliens gives you a lot of leeway in worldbuilding
>>84494766There doesn't need to be nukes. Environmental collapse can happen just fine without them, if anything it will be more on point if it happens slowly and no one does anything until it's too late. Like what's happening right now.
>>84495147Isn't that what Mad Max is kinda about?
>>84495257>>84495147Mad Max is about nukes, though the war was caused by resource crisis brought on by climate change.Climate Change is another potential "world ender" though the notion people would do nothing and all civilization would collapse beggars belief. More likely there'd be hyper modern cities with everything and a wasteland with nothing outside, similar to Cyberpunk's setting
>>84494766The fears of the early 21st century are ecological and/or economic collapses. Look at all the SHTF fanfiction out there.
widespread droughts, wildfires, heatwaves, tornados, hurricanes, famine, earthquakes.further income inequality, people turning to crime, homeless everywhere, the rich living in ivory towers and gated communities, roving gangs.nuclear war is still an option. plenty of shitty countries like North Korea haven't even joined the party yet, let alone Russia.i don't know that we really need new apocalypses, we're still working on all the old ones.
It's gonna be pretty environmentalist.Something akin to Water World than Mad Max. Tons of flooding, people on rafts and boats, decrepit cities have canals instead of streets. Then there's wicked heat, like you need to cover yourself in shade somehow during midday. Fresh water that is neither brackish nor polluted is hard to come by and is valuable. Tons of plastic trash everywhere, often used for low quality makeshift materials.Have you ever seen The Bay? You could do something creepy with chemicals and disruptions in the water causing organisms to become larger and more deadly. Nothing crazy mutated but just big and aggressive and possibly disease carrying. And yes, people are gonna be eating a lot of bugs.
>>84495466this feels more dystopian than post-apocalypse
>>84495604I should add that's just one biome. You're going to have your eternally burning wildfires and scorched rock. You'll also have your frozen wasteland tundras. Places with constant monsoons and hurricanes. The point is that any given place's climate is inhospitable to the point of making organized society beyond warbands and strongholds impossible.
are you familiar with the website ExitMundi.nl? It's basically a catalogue of all the weird ways the world could end. The site's a bit old and some of pictures don't exist anymore, but it's cool reading.
>>84495624ah you're right, i just glossed over that distinction, my bad
>>84495344>Mad Max is about nukes, though the war was caused by resource crisis brought on by climate change.The first Mad Max film didn't feature nuclear holocaust. It was about civilization in rapid economic and social collapse. World War III wasn't specifically referenced until the 2nd and 3rd films.
>>84495604you know an aquatic sort of post apocolypse where the world is reduced to smaller land masses would be interesting. The problem is as a setting that reduces your 'wasteland' to ocean, and there isn't much you can discover out in the ocean without...yknow... a boat.One idea for a dieselpunk setting I had once was the world was mostly islands and the deep waters were full of sea monsters which would attack boats, making airplanes the best way to tradeI feel like you need the ability to go out there and find the ruins of pre-civilization and explore though, lost secrets amongst the nothing.
Here are your Post Apocalyptical narratives:> Earth's water and food cycles break down, oceans die, coasts flood, wet-bulb heat effects turn whole countries uninhabitable.> Global famine and resource depletion push nations into war, up to and including thermonuclear exchanges.> Low-orbital shrapnel destroys all modern communications, Internet and GPS systems, and makes the use of satellites and space travel physically impossible for the next 10,000 years.> A handful of isolated communities survive using fermented cell cultures and cannibalism. They struggle to rebuild, but in a world with limited preserved technological knowhow, no easily accessible energy reserves, and an extremely hostile environment. Of course, all the most recent PA stories have been about viral epidemics, so that's an easy option.
>>84494766Mad Max 1 was about the 70s oil crisis.>>84496121It's Thunderdrome where we even acknowledge a nuclear exchange. The exchange happened a little before Walker took the kids on his plane that crashed, leaving the kids to form their little tribe. So the nuking was way after Road Warrior and Mad Max.
>>84494766I get what you want to ask, but all your examples are dead wrong: the highest levels of anxiety over nukes reigned from the late 50s to the early 80s, the prime example for the early period is A Canticle for Leibowitz, going through Dr. Strangelove in the '60s, and I would argue that one of the last truly "we're scared shitless of nukes" works is The Day After. Of course as you said tension on that front began to ease during the '80s~'90s, with the collapse of the soviet union, and that left space for other kinds of anxieties: Neuromancer is from 1984 and that captures well the direction society was going towards due to rampant turboliberism and computers becoming a widespread things, but I wouldn't consider the current reality anything closer to cyberpunk than many other kinds of dystopia, including the post apocalyptic.That being said, the current wave of post-apocalypse involves pollution (e.g. Wall-E), irreversible climate change (e.g. Interstellar), which ultimately are just a different way to make the planet a inhospitable place to be in from nukes, but the end result is always the same: you can't have a post-apocalypse without having an apocalypse first, so that stays, and for that I think everything has already been explored, you just gotta pick your poison. LUltimately post-apocalypse is all about how humanity adapts to the new shitty environment, as a mean to reflect on the human condition and on the constants of human behaviour that form society: very few works actually go as far as completely wiping humanity at some point, because the means through which the apocalypse is reached are often secondary, surely dictated by the anxieties of the time, but a backdrop nonetheless. In other words, in a post-apocalyptic setting the apocalypse doesn't really matter.One kind of apocalypse that MAYBE hasn't been explored as much is overcrowding due to post-scarcity enabled by technology (so nobody is fighting for resources).
Let me introduce you to the wonderful subculture of "Collapsology": https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CollapsologyBasically, the prophets/cultists of the upcoming doomsday by ressource exhaustion/and distribution chain collapse. If there's an early 21st century apocalyptic fear, it's that one.
>>84494766>If you were to create a NEW post apocolyptic setting for a NEW age, where we now know nukes won't destroy everything instantly and simultaneously and also nobody is turning into cool mutants, what form would it take? What would be your excuse for ending the world? What genre conventions would you keep and which ones would you discard?Mankind just got out of luck. This happened centuries ago, and no one can accurately reconstruct the chain of events. Crisis due to resource depletion, war with weapons of mass destruction, ecological collapse and nothing has gotten better for generations. As a result, this led to new dark ages.By the way, the Caribbean became the cradle of the new civilization. Cuba will be the end of Florida men's pc journey, it is divided between the tribes of feral communists, descendants of US sailors and the Guantanamo garrison, who created something like a floating horde of several pirate clans. Also there is the Caribbean Trade League and the Colombian Empire of LARP.
>>84494766The tech company tyranny of the 2100s collapsed in the wake of a revolt started by a coordinated EMP release around the world.Mankind has been split into a dual class system that distrust and war for supremacy, yet require each other. The Tech class are descendants of those that tried to preserve the most important technology after the fall. They have better understanding of the technology that's left and are on the lookout for ways to fix certain things. They don't hold delusions of bringing back the dominance of the Tech Tyranny due to dependence on the other class, yet they still keep an eye on ways to enhance their power. In practical terms they act like a Religious caste. They are dependent on the other class for basic necessities but in return provide services that nobody else possibly can.The Earth caste are everyone else. Those that were just tax and consumer cattle to the elite before The Fall. They carve out an increasingly better life among the crumbling edifice of the pre-Fall society. Unlike those that came after Rome or Babylon, however, the physical evidence of the pre-Fall society crumbles rapidly outside a select few examples. Skyscrapers face only a few decades of neglect before collapsing, most suburban buildings less. Asphalt Roads break up rapidly unlike the Roman's which lasted centuries. Reminders of pre-Fall society come rather in the form of installations maintained by the Tech Class. The most valuable of which are offline copies of knowledge repositories.The big search is on to find reliable fossil fuel extraction sites at depths that recovered technology can reach. There is no replacement for hydrocarbons, less for fuel than for esoteric plastics and lubricants. Many in the tech class think it's a fools errand and mankind doomed and trapped itself. But rumors persist, and the first to find a good large source would relaunch the Information Age.
>>84496624I was pretty sure that the opening monologue for Road Warrior included mushroom clouds, but then I haven't seen it in like 30 years.
>>84497892There's fiery clouds of fire, probably the oil fields burning from the Gulf War of Mad Max's timeline, that led to a deepening oil crisis.
>>84497746This. The big threat is the oil running out and making high technology impossible. Can't go directly from fire to fission.
>>84497892>>84498155This might be the difference between different cuts of the movie. According to wikipedia, the road warrior takes place after a devistating world war, but I'm not sure if nukes are specified, and I seem to remember that the original cut of the movie didn't have the infodump intro scene?
Automation eats the whole job market, including killdrones for defending the robotics company executives against the unemployed angry mobs. THEY'RE doing fine, things are just apocalyptic for peasants.
>>84497746>>84498750In order to get to advanced technology you need to have oodles of lovely fossil fuel to burn through for your industrial revolution and once it's gone, it's gone.So advanced civilizations get one shot IF they evolve at the right time on a suitable planet.Every civilization that come after the bonanza is gone is hobbled.
>>84494766All the natural and man-made shit is extremely old, stale and busted. A much more interesting concept is our world ending up on the receiving end of a terraforming agent like Tiberium. C&C in general is a good example of it done right, without devolving into overused tropes.
>>84501936Compromise, human-made grey goo replicators?
>>84495344the first and second one had nothing to do with nukes or even ecological collapse.Thats a misunderstanding because the 2nd one was shot out in the desert.
>>84502831Meh, it's barely different from AI rebellion.
>>84501936How about two different alien races fight for control of Earth and we're just stick in the middle?
>>84502993There’s no mind or plan behind it, just instinctual replication as the world slowly turns to sterile metal wasteland.
A mainstay of post apocalypse is crazed raiders. What if whatever caused the apocalypse left earth's magnetic field fucked, which is why electronics don't work right a lot, but also fucks with human cognitive abilities, which results in so many succumbing to violent insanity
>>84508021>What if whatever caused the apocalypse left earth's magnetic field fucked, which is why electronics don't work right a lot, but also fucks with human cognitive abilities, which results in so many succumbing to violent insanityHuman brains work equally well outside of earth's magnetic field as demonstrated by the apollo landings and orbital missions and "we don't have enough food, go rob or cannibalize the neighbors" takes care of all the violence.
>>84507887I'd say you could have an entirely plausible AI Apocalypse where the machines have no actual plan or consciousness and are just really destructive dumb algorithms.
>>84508307Outside of it sure, but what about constant exposure to persistent, amplified EM pollution from hyperactive solar flares?
>>84508311>>84507887This is literally the plot to Horizon Zero Dawn btw, shame that game is shit
>>84499182George Miller specifically said in interviews after the release of the film that Road Warrior was not post-nuclear, it's just a few years after a global oil crisis that led to the collapse of civilisation I think the assumption was made (not unreasonably) because the opening narration mentioned 'two mighty warrior tribes went to war' and nuclear war was a hot topic at the timeAs for the wasteland? That's just how most of the Australian interior looks
>>84496667>One kind of apocalypse that MAYBE hasn't been explored as much is overcrowding due to post-scarcity enabled by technology (so nobody is fighting for resources).Brave new world.
>>84496667>post-scarcity enabled by technology (so nobody is fighting for resources).
>>84496667>Ultimately post-apocalypse is all about how humanity adapts to the new shitty environment, as a mean to reflect on the human condition and on the constants of human behaviour that form society
>>84510465You could make a whole post-apocalyptic religion out of the paradise which was technological luxuries and the opportunity for salvation which was lost and hating the people responsible.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PzTgOdOxY
>>84510465It just shows you we have no real problems when we have to make up shit to complain about. Nobody will scream about equal rights when it's time to draft for war and nobody will care what colour wrapping the meat is packaged in as it's fed into the grinder.
>>84494766To me, the apocalypse scenario that makes the most sense to me right now is climate change. We're already beyond the breaking point, so this shit is happening. Its slow, but inevitable. Im picturing a sort of moral decline similar to Children of Men, where people become gradually more decadent, selfish, violent and lawless because they see no positive long term growth. There's a pervasive sense of nihilism as we slowly creep towards ecological collapse. Resources are running out, air is getting dirtier, weather more severe, and the sea level keeps rising as the ice caps melt, pushing us onto smaller territories where the concentrated population comes into conflict over already dwindling resources. The biggest fuck you will be that society as a whole does not learn anything from this; there is no cultural revolution that sees more enlightened, sustainable lifestyle come to the fore. No clean technology, no environmental awareness, no greater humanitarianism, no elimination of the astonishingly short-sighted and wasteful attitude towards resources that gives momentary pleasure at the cost of long term doom.
>>84510736>We're already beyond the breaking point, so this shit is happening. Its slow, but inevitableNot true, actually. Our climate situation has improved DRAMATICALLY in the last 20 years. Enough there's reason to be optimistic https://youtu.be/LxgMdjyw8uw
>>84510736I don't understand why we don't all hang the oil barons and emulate the french model.
>>84508543>This is literally the plot to Horizon Zero Dawn btw, shame that game is shitThis isn't one of those peach-fuzz complaints, is it?
>>84512135What's a peach fuzz complaint?
>>84510736We would all die from nuclear hellfire before climate change does anything to "collapse" society.With that said, this >>84513623 is the most realistic collapse scenario. People are too dramatic to notice the current system can keep "working" for very long time while our lifes only get worse, all without collapsing.
>>84514163Post war yank comfort was built on stolen European wealth. The world's carrion can't stay that way, because martshartians can't sustain themselves or create anything meaningful. That's why now it's all run out, and you are back to your depression days.
>>84510736It's not real, it's not happening, and you are a retard brainwashed by alarmist propaganda. Or you're a very clumsy and obvious troll, can't tell that sort from genuine retards these days.
>>84514274>Post war yank comfort was built on stolen European wealth.Just because you guys blew up all the manufacturing infrastructure on your continent while we retained ours until a bunch of traitors sold it to china.
>>84494766Mathlusian overpopulation + climate change + exhaustions of natural resourcesBascially, the world burns and expends all it's unrenewable materials to make a select number of generations comfortable, and damns 99% of humanity to live as preindustrial serfs while the 1% live as post-scarcity princes to the king that is technology.The 1% live in isolated territories with "modern" luxuries and an ever-growing technological populace. Everyone is a specialist in one field or another, and everyone knows where they stand in the status of the new society. Science advances at a rapid rate, and theories are made facts on a weekly basis. Space is not a myth, but an uncommon destination for those with needs for off-world research. The moon is being colonized. Mars is hosting it's first visitors and becoming the new frontier. The building blocks of reality itself are being discovered, poorly understood, yet poised to become the next plateau of scientific endeavor.The 99% live in the mobile wreckage of homes that once held luxuries they could never imagine: running water, air conditioning, air filtration, solar insulation, radiation avoidance. Homes are kept and maintained for their solid walls and roofs, protection against ever more hostile elements. Most of all against neighbors that would kill one another to steal a plate of food, or a cache of water. Rain is scarce, and when it comes is toxic, so it must be filtered with tools barely understood, yet prayed upon to work. Food is grown in protected acreage, soldiers present to shoot down trespassers without question. Those same soldiers protects rivers, dams, bridges, lakes, fields, crops, shorelines, oceans. Anything that has value, that can be used to preserve human life, is guarded with lethal force.
>>84515502>Global warming is a hoax, Trump, Bush, and the Oil companies said so!
>>84515760the biggest pushers of global warming are the oil companies
>>84515766Oil companies pay lip service to the idea of doing something about it knowing Half the Party will oppose any measure to deal with it to their dying breath.
>>84494766Dysgenics and energy scarcity-driven catabolic collapse
>>84515760>>84515853If you wanted to FIX it, you'd be building thorium reactors not trying to reduce everyone but the one percent to serfhood.
>>84515760Global warming is hoax; it's a distraction from peak oil with 8 billion retards to feed instead of 3-ish.>>84515961Thorium is just a worse uranium/plutonium, which is still pretty good. However, it's also bottlenecked by rare metals like zirconium, and is not fungible like petroleum, nor can it be converted into food like petrochemicals can.
>>84516046>However, it's also bottlenecked by rare metals like zirconiumThe asteroid belt has plenty and we've had the tech since the cold war space race aside from that perfidious 1967 Outer Space Treaty and its prohibition against land grabs and the only kind of hard-scifi spacecraft engines with a really effective thrust-to-weight ratio.
>>84516105What do you think the EROI of getting rare metals from spehss is without using magic infrastructure that doesn't exist and would itself requires massive amounts of energy to get into spehss?
>>84516046>he believes in peak oilLmao now that IS a hoax.
>>84515961I would absolute love Thorium reactors, but we also need right now solutions, and honestly stopping the 1% from doing shit like private jets would cut down on emissions a bit. We’d cut down on 50% of aviation emissions just by forcing the super rich to fly commercial or not at all.
>>84511312>Not trueYes it is. We passed it in, what, 2015? And also it's coming up in 5 years. We're forever few years from disaster unless we do something that gives more power to other people to do things for us, which they never do, otherwise we wouldn't give them more power.
>>84516485>ITs toO LatE to UsE NuCLeARIf its too late for nuclear its too late for anything in your delusional regressive world
>What would be your excuse for ending the world? Catastrophic loss of Virgin in the world.
>>84494766Everyone’s bringing up some good points, but I think the main takeaway from this thread is that a post apocalypse has a distinct lack of fit tan bare navels.
>>84517748>>84517776god i want to wash them, i am The Cleaner
>>84496121Mad Max is just actual real life Australia. I was in Alice Springs yesterday and it's indistinguishable from the movie.Also I grew up where the movie was filmed and it's comfy. But that area is also going through mad Max tier problems irl.We're on our way.
>>84494766>nobody is really scared of Nukes anymore (again lets not discuss)Disingenuous thread.
Infohazards are always fun.
>>84516598Are you intentionally misreading what I am trying to say or are you an idiot? We don’t have Thorium reactors that we can deploy across the world in any quick time frame, there are just a handful of research reactors. What I am saying is that there are things we can and should be doing right now and the fact we don’t have Thorium reactors shouldn’t hold us back from doing them.
>>84516850I wish I could. We might have been able to prevent it, because god knows even modern people with this knowledge don't want to acknowledge the problem.