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Mirror Musk Edition

Previous Thread: >>84462498

A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various gaming adaptations.

Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>https://www.modiphius.net/pages/star-trek-adventures
-Homebrew Collection
>https://continuingmissionsta.com/
-PDF Collection
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures

/stg/ Other RPGs (Previous Licensed, Unlicensed, and Third Party)
>https://pastebin.com/v5BgQxab

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Fleet Captain
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/

Star Trek: Ascendancy
-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>http://startrek.gf9games.com/

Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Thread Topic: What's the next Trek race, concept or character that needs to be fleshed out in the post-Nemesis era? (Assume it will be done well)
>>
>>84488785
Fuck off. Elon Musk and Telsa is Gucci for autism.
>>
>>84488785

The answer to "Kirk or Picard?" is "Lorca".
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>>84488797
its so confusing to me that he has fans
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>>84488813
They see in him confirmation that someone can act the way that they want to act and still be rich, powerful, famous. He lets his fans reassure themselves that there's nothing wrong with them.
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>>84488798
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>>84488813
He was the only good character in Discovery S1
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>>84488943
Was Saru good in season 1?
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>>84488785
We've come a long way.
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>>84489037
but luckily, 2 years later
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>>84488813
>its so confusing to me that he has fans
Is it really?

I can think of millions of fans he'll gain just from this decision alone.
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>>84489037
I'm comforted by the fact that I can always count on O'Brien to be based to his core. It feels good.
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>>84489086
Sure. But Musk simps have excised for a decade plus.
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>>84488813
Out of all billionaires, him having fans confuses me the least.
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>>84489086
trump has his own platform now. hes not coming back
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>>84489310
You do not understand anything about Trump if you think he won't go back on twitter.
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I've never seen any of the Short Treks. Any of them any good?
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>>84489568
I only saw the Edward one, which apparently people hated but I thought it was funny enough. I haven't watched STD though so maybe I hadn't been worn down by that enough to be cynical about it.
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>>84489086
>I can think of millions of fans he'll gain just from this decision alone.
>Million
>Didn't even have 3000 fanatics to take the capital
>>
>>84489086
This just shows how small brained all of you are, Ol' Musky has got a plan and it's gonna be blow everyone away, he's so brilliant. I can't wait to see the revolution he's going to bring to social media and the metaverse. The rest of you boomers can keep rotting in your mothers basements.
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I must say, I really, really do not like the completely blindingly white and overly lit version of the enterprise interior.
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Did they cast a blind dude to play the Aenar Engineer?
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>>84489719
They need to turn some of those rail lights off but otherwise I think it's a vast improvement over when the lights were blue.
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>>84489798
It's weird to me that they have the lights around the circumference instead of the underside, like pretty much all lighted railings in existence.
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>>84489847
Real lighted railings are for the benefit of the user; these are for the benefit of the audience. It's still a shitty bridge.
>>
I liked the new episode. I would even cautiously call it good. I will say though, assuming that a comet adding a fuck ton of water to a desert planet will guarantee things will be better seems wrong somehow. Like I get it, but the natives and every other species evolved with the existing amount of water, that’s one hell of a destabilization to the ecosystem. I shall have to assume the sapient benevolent comet new better, though

>>84489899
I don’t know why all the hallways and rooms are so damned over lit. There are light strips on everything. The Enterprise exterior is a pretty good touch up of the classic look, embiggening not withstanding, I wish its interior wasn’t such a departure.
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>>84489899
It has a 60s diner look, which is fine for me. I'd still rather they went with a comfy TNG/LD/Orville bridge but it's not like the TOS bridge was particularly comfy either.
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>>84490081
You know what, I think what I dislike the most is entirely that the floor is reflective. Everything else I'm fine with.
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>>84490089
Yeah reflective floors make it look like a cafeteria or something. I like the consoles though, the way they wrap around the bridge makes it look more immersive like an actual command center, etc.
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>>84489798
It's actually worse. It's even darker and more depressing now.
>>84489719
Sounds like they took inspiration from the JJ films instead of TOS.
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>>84490138
It's far closer to how it should look than the JJ Apple Store bridge.

>dark and depressing
I don't care for bright bridges, especially during red alert. One of the few things VOY did right was switch off the lights during battles.
>>
>>84489543
you've not been paying attention if you think musk is really buying it, idiot's fucked himself
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>>84490192
Honestly I think half the problem is that the bridge is just too big and open. Look at square footage and it's kind of silly. I'm sure space is at a premium or something.
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>>84490192
JJ had some nice bridges. well, bridge. other parts of the ship looked good too for the brief glimpses we got
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>>84490192
>One of the few things VOY did right was switch off the lights during battles.
Can you explain why like I'm a retard?

I've seen one YouTube commenter on a PIC scene snark about just that
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>>84490846
On actual warships the lights are turned down during crisis situations so if the power goes out as a result of damage it's easier for the crew's eyes to adjust to the darkness.
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>>84488943
He was the only good character in discovery.
>>
>>84491453
man if your power is out on your starship so badly that it can't even produce LED lighting, you've got more problems than eyes adjusting
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>>84491563
In which case it would be useful to see where you're going on the way to the escape pod.
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>>84489037
Honestly given how hard the rest of DS9 tries to sand the "capitalism=bad" edges off the Ferengi in favour of the less controversial "greed=bad, also sexism", I was pleasantly surprised by how vehement that episode was.
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>>84489106
All of DS9 is megabased though. Except for mirror universe episodes. I can't think of a single villain that was more entertaining than Gul Dukat, a single ally more dubious than Garak or an officer more competant than Sisko. Most of the supporting cast is great (but Jadzia can take a hike) and they rehabbed classic trek villains. Both the Romulans and the Klingons got their chances to be the bad guys again and it was great. The show really made you feel how terrifying the Romulans are made them a legitimately antagonistic while being "allies". Its all so well done. It's such stark contrast to later trek shows that dont really hit.
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>>84490846
>I've seen one YouTube commenter
Well I can't explain why like you're a retard, but I can explain why you're a retard.
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>>84491639
The Cardassians really stole that show though. Garak, who could never tell the truth if he could help it, always carried out his business in the most sinister and villainous way possible, and yet generally ended up doing “the right” thing, or at least what worked to the hero’s favour. I think of that last season, where the fact he’s doing code breaking for Starfleet is helping to kill scores of Cardassians, and after getting it off his chest, he calms down and gets right back to it. Dukat was always so full of genuine belief that what he did was kind and just that you really kind of feel for the guy. His oft-mentioned stint as the Prefect of Bajor pretty much encapsulates him as a person. That he dialed down the occupation from “incredibly brutal” to just “fairly brutal” is a good, maybe even compassionate, act. That he thinks the Bajorans should hail him as a hero is supremely delusional.
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>>84489568
Everyone loves Calypso, which is funny since Discovery has made it pretty close to being non canon
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>>84489751
Yes

>>84489798
The Discovery one is SO BAD here, good god.

>>84490081
>>84489719
Lower Decks dies the bright and lit version of an Enterprise bridge far better.
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>>84491571
how blind are these people? either you have easy to power lighting which always makes it easy to see or you have no lighting at all which means its pitch black and no one is going anywhere (well not true, a trained crew should be able to find their way in the dark anyways by following contours they know by heart)
>>
>>84488832
... Damn, I've never seen anyone sum up why Muskrats exist so well. Kudos, Anon.
>>84488841
>somebody else remembers The Death of Stalin
One of the best comic book movies of all time.
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>>84491655
Lol, one Internet friend of mine would always give me shit whenever I bring up anything from YouTube comments. I think he said something about them being absolute stupidity or something like that. And that was around a decade ago!
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>>84489798
I guess they decided to move Uhura's station so the captain can turn his head to talk to her instead of her talking to the back of his head?

Speaking of Uhura, she had one of the worst bits in their first episode. I don't know what it is about the new Star Trek that they feel a need to metaphorically look into the camera and wink. They fall on that same schtick of someone making a speech and then a bridge officer reacts to how "cool" that was hearing that they were going to explore new worlds and new civilizations, boldly going and all that, as if they hadn't seen the Starfleet brochures even before they entered the Academy.
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>>84489798
neither look good. there's non-illuminating lights everywhere for no reason. its like they think you can only make something look sci-fi if theres LED lights plastered everywhere
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>>84493596
Eh she's a cadet. Also probably did none of the crazy shit that more command-oriented cadets were trained for like piloting.
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>>84493657
I always feel safer the more LEDs are around. If I ever get a van or SUV, I'm going to deck the interior in LEDs.
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>>84489716
The fuck is this?
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>>84494079
If it were a one-off event it might have been fine, but it's not so it isn't. Tolerances will vary between individuals, though.
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>>84494231
Diplomacy.
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>>84494266
When was the last time?
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>reading youtube comments complaining about La'an and Uhura having trauma in their past

>forgetting Tasha with the rape gangs, Worf's parents murdered by Romulans, O'Brien in the UFP-Cardassian war, Picard getting stabbed by Naussicans and attacked while commanding the Stargazer, Wesley and Beverly with their father/husband, Data with Lore, Noonian, the colonists and the crystalline entity, Guinan with the Borg, Ro Laren and the Cardassians

And that's just the main cast of TNG.
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>>84494275
Anon might be referring to a speech Pike gave in Discovery season 2 which caused Detmer and Owosekun start grinning like idiots at each other. Or maybe the bit in season 3 when they were getting their hologram display badges and we had this prolonged scene of the bridge crew lined up to theatrically gasp and proclaim how cool their new toys were, which was rather awkward.

If it's the first then I'd label it a callback to Pike and his ability to make dramatic mission speeches, so not that bad.
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Me and my man were talking about Trek this morning and came to a disagreement I want to ask the thread about.
He seems to think Odo's "Cardassian Neck Trick", is an Odo-exclusive thing where it's just him reproducing a Cardassian neck and that's all there is too it. I'm of the opinion that the show implies that a neck trick is something Cardassians can do and it's only mentioned with Odo because his shapeshifting let him do a particularly good rendition of the trick.
Thoughts?
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>>84494339
I'm so glad I went into SNW without having seen any STD/PIC. Seems like it permanently scarred some people.
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>>84494400
Even for a cadet it's weird for her to get all giddy and mutter, "So cool," just from hearing the basic "new life and new civilizations" spiel that's basically the Starfleet mission statement. Might have been understandable at the beginning of the episode if she was excited for her first mission, but it's awkward coming at the end of the episode well after everything has been resolved. I can see how it comes off as extremely off-putting. Let the audience decide if things are "so cool" or not, having the characters gush about it is just bizarre when it wasn't even her first rodeo. I don't know if the matter feels more egregious to people because they did it with a TOS character, but I don't think that should matter.

FWIW I think only the first episode or so is handled by Kurtzman, who we blame for everything else bad with Trek so why not this?
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>>84494363
My impression was always that it was Odo replicating a Cardassian neck. Relatively unimpressive but enjoyed by the Cardassians because it was a demonstration of obedience.
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>>84494284
I'd swap Picard for Riker, whose dad outright abandoned him as a kid. And if we're going with O'Brien we might as well add Lwaxana, who lost her oldest child. TNG backstories are fairly grim.
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>>84494475
That's fine, I was just whatever about it. Like it didn't make me do a double take or anything, I just saw it as a character getting excited. And I'll take that over crying.
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>>84494514
>Riker, whose dad outright abandoned him as a kid
I mean yeah that sucks but Picard literally had to have his heart replaced after getting shanked and then got attacked by Ferengi and had to watch some of his crew die. Also lost Beverly's husband on an away mission he ordered.
>>
>>84494363

I would lean towards it being something the Cardassians can do, which Odo was successfully able to duplicate. The other option ("Wow, he can replicate....a Cardassian neck!") doesn't feel terribly impressive. He's a shapeshifter, of course he can make himself look like he's got a Cardassian neck!
>>
Have you ever noticed how Cardassians from Kelvas Prime have necks like this, but Cardassians from Kora II have necks like this?
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>>84494522
I don't think anyone minds a character being excited, it's the rest of the context. But if Pike is going to be on his own five year mission that the Enterprise keeps going on, maybe they felt the need to play up how cool it is?
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>>84494284
To be fair, like one of those was actually established in TNG's pilot.
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>>84494602
Odo wasn't always so good at shape-shifting. He mentions on several occasions that he couldn't do hair or ears for a long time. If someone shape-shifted their neck into a cardassian neck in front of me I'd be pretty impressed.
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>>84494647
The one that feels kind of bad is Doctor M'Benga. Nice to see him back, but it feels like it puts the character in an awkward position. I get that he's the senior medical officer because they left spacedock in a hurry in the first episode, I guess they decided Boyce has moved on to other things, but when Kirk takes over M'Benga will be serving under McCoy. Maybe they'll account for this in some way, but his inevitable downgrade is pretty sucky.
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>>84494550
I wouldn't call getting stabbed in a bar fight a tragedy, especially not considering the incredibly positive impact it had on him, and losses of crew in the line of duty are to be expected otherwise you might as well count every officer who had someone die under them. I agree with Jack Crusher though.
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>>84494839
>I wouldn't call getting stabbed in a bar fight a tragedy
In Glasgow that's just any day ending in -y.
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>>84493596
Seeing a brocure and actually being on a starship for the first time is different.Being in the Trek universe doesnt have to mean being in space either, it can be a new experience for people. Hate this idea that people need to be cold and formal and find all this boring. Being on a starship should be a wonderful thing, especially for a cadet. She needs to be talking about how cool it is and being giddy about it twice as much actually.
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>>84494986
Did anyone else used to imagine Uhura's specialty being the technological elements of transferring information rather than being Hoshi 2.0?
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>>84495053
Im sure everyone hedcanoning giving more to Uhura expanded her role to knowing language stuff. This show is basically headcanon Uhura becoming canon.
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>>84494986
>actually being on a starship for the first time is different
But this wasn't her first time on a starship. This was not only after the mission but they got everyone back, settled, has time for Pike to decide to stay on his horse, and were preparing to head out again.
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>>84495085
I feel like the excitement at being on the bridge of the flagship wouldnt wear off in that time. That's why I like the main 4 lower deckers, a year in and they're still in awe at how great being on a starship is.
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>>84489680
The captain not getting any punishment for what happened or refusing to take personal responsibility for a member of her crew really pissed me off.
On its own the episode was fine, but it really doesn't fit in Trek. You don't make fun of someone dying in Star Trek.
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>>84495085
I just chalk it up to narrative convenience; logically everything like this would be occurring during the first episode, but we only have so much run time.
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>>84494836
If we want to talk about some of the weird things in this episode in particular, it's weird to me that Starfleet EV suits can't handle cosmic rays, and it's unusual for unusually high cosmic ray activity as close to a habitable world as that comet was, though they never mentioned that the star was unusually active or had any noteworthy properties. That makes the whole two hour window feel like really bad excuse plot for extra drama.
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>>84495107
Seems like a callback to Pike in Discovery. He's apparently really good at making inspirational speeches.
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>>84495146
Something I noticed was after last week established Sickbay has its own dedicated transporter pad, this week someone needing urgent medical attention is beamed to the standard transporter room?
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>>84491526
Pike was pretty good in S2
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>>84495107
I don't know about how they were handled in the 23rd century, but from what we've seen of 24th century academy life before you'd get to the point of being remotely qualified to serve on the bridge as a cadet you'd have already been put through the wringer. Mandatory EVA, simulated and real missions, and Tom Paris' favorite bit where they shove cadets in a Class II shuttle for over a week quipping that you didn't want to be anywhere nearby when the airlock was opened.

You're still going to feel emotional, but by that point even a cadet should have enough experience of Starfleet life to maintain the basic professional decorum. You bottle it up until you get back to your quarters, or hallway bunk, and then gush about it in your personal "captain's log".
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>>84490273
Explain this. And no your ass is not a credible source.
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>>84495262
Not him but I was convinced he wasnt buying it, and if he was, he wasnt going to do anything. The dude is all about having people worship the promises he makes, not actually doing anything.

But now I think he wants to do it, the more he has to borrow money from other people to pay for it the more scrutiny the deal is going to get and I think it might just fall apart.
>>
>>84495188
The presence of a never-before-seen sickbay transporter in a pre-TOS Enterprise makes me wonder if McCoy pulled a Pulaski and had that newfangled crap ripped out of his sickbay. But honestly it's actually pretty fitting they have it. 23rd Century transporters struggle with intra-ship beaming beaming (though admittedly this was always kind of silly, like the transporter system is fine beaming you to a planet, even inside a building, from orbit but the internal sensors can't handle the ships own schematics and a short range hop can get you stuck in a bulkhead) but moreso for the potential of a transporter as a medical device. You think beaming would make molecular level surgery a snap.
>>
>>84495146
I feel like that might have been a leftover from an early draft of the script, because a two hour time limit for the medication is irrelevant in the context of the comet's impact anyways.

>>84495188
If you want some fanwank, maybe the sickbay transporter is only used to transport emergency cases within the ship and isn't powerful enough to handle long-distance transports. It'd jive with them needing to use the regular transporter to deliver the booster to Spock on the planet's surface, but would open the question of why they didn't just immediately rebeam Kirk to sickbay.
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>>84495434
>because a two hour time limit for the medication is irrelevant in the context of the comet's impact anyways.
The comet was going to hit in two days, though? Am I misreading something?
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>>84495107
It’s both realistic and normal to feel excitement about something you’re passionate about, it was just delivered a little awkwardly. It’s not as if breathless whispering is against Starfleet’s code of conduct.

And now that two people have brought of LD I get to ask the real question: do you think the SNW 1701 Enterprise has hall bunks? The excelsior and the ent b definitely did, and old beta canon mentions ensigns sleeping in engineering, but I’m not sure if SNW really cares about details like that.
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>>84495470
Someone did make a reference to the ship being small this week, though I feel we wont ever get to see non bridge sleeping quarters either way.
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>>84495470
>It’s not as if breathless whispering is against Starfleet’s code of conduct.
You're clearly unaware of the totally canon Hemets Incident when the Federation was pushed nearly to the brink of war after the Hemetian ambassador flipped his shit over an ensign who kept whispering, "Faggot," under his breath during negotiations. Fortunately the captain was able to pass the matter off as Tourettes, but that was wiped out in the 22nd.
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>>84495553
>non bridge sleeping quarters
Slumber party on the bridge? Sweet! Finally an excuse to wear tribble slippers while on duty!
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>>84495468
There is really no way you can reconcile the internal chronology of the episode with 2 days without a massive time gap in the episode. Once they're on the surface everything has to take place within two hours because the away team isn't dead, and once they're beamed back the episode plays out more or less in real time and ends with the comet doing a flyby of the planet.
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>>84495399
>You think beaming would make molecular level surgery a snap
I’m not even Bones and this sounds like a fucking nightmare waiting to happen.
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>>84495888
Oh some on, this rarely ever happens!
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>>84495888
If you're already routinely ripping someone apart to their constituent atoms and then sticking them back together like a massive lego project there's all kinds of alterations you can do before reassembly. This was more of a 24th Century thing, however. De-aging, re-aging, re-creating the captain once using his transporter trace so they could stick his mental energies into the new body, plus I seem to recall The Doctor did a fair amount of crazy shit with the transporter on occasion.
>>
What trek-specific thing would make you immediately leave a table?
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>>84496169
>"Can I play as Burnham?"
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Just watched the second episode of SNW

One thing I'm starting to notice is how they seem to be on an actual ship. For some reason I was just never convinced that the Discovery was a real, functional ship or that its decks had any coherent floor plan. They always just looked like a collection of metal halls and rooms but they didn't feel like they were designed for people to really work and live in.

Here, every section seems more intentional and purposeful.
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>>84496182
Has anyone here ever actually attempted a game where the players are assigned canon characters? I know my table would hate that, nutrek shit or classic.
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>>84496184
Discovery just has subpar sets in general.
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>>84495434
I suspect the shot was just an excuse to have Spock and Chapel interact.
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Everytime I read SNW, I have to think about this and not Trek
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>>84496609
I remember when people were still calling lower decks LDS.
Made me picture a situational comedy about Mormon missionaries.

However, the fusion of anime girls and Star Trek makes me imagine a series where Starfleet ships have anthropomorphic anime girl AIs.
I wonder how autsistic it would be to try and combine one of those KanColle TTrpgs with STA?
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>>84496658
I mean who hasn't mixed their chocolate with their peanut butter and created a magical girl bridge crew campaign titled Vulcan Love Slave: The Next Degeneration?
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>>84496658
>However, the fusion of anime girls and Star Trek makes me imagine a series where Starfleet ships have anthropomorphic anime girl AIs.
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>>84496887
Cute!
I DEMAND MOAR SHIP GIRLS!
>>
>>84496609
I gotta go back and finish that one day.

>>84496658
>Due to adverse long-term psychological reactions by crew members, all anthropomorphic ship computer avatars have had their appearances and personalities hardlocked to "elderly Tellarite male."
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>>84497024
Jokes on you, that's my fetish.
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>>84497054
Burly pigman daddy describes a lot of bara furry porn.
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>>84496909
Well Akira-chan was at least an STO April Fools...
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>>84497097
I don’t know why the deflector hand made me laugh.
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>>84497171
Talk to the deflector because the communications array doesn't want to hear it.
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>>84496887
Is Cali short, ditzy, and full of heart?
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>>84497591
Nah, a buff chick wearing yellow overalls over her uniforms.

Defiant is a classic “tomboy”

DS9 is a tsundere cardassian lady.
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>>84496887
Cute!
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>>84497692
A Cardassian lady with a Federation Uniform.
with a bajoran earring.
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>>84497591
>Is Cali short, ditzy, and full of heart?
I don't know about short, but the Cerritos is certainly ditzy styling herself as a "Fairy Queen."
To be fair, she's supposedly not an AI, but the Ship's Spirit or Klabautermann, she just uses a Holographic Avatar...
AND SHE'S DATING BILLUPS!
>>
>>84497912
>After a revolutionary software update, the Federations standard ship computer achieves sentience
>After several days of quiet processing where it responded to no one trying to talk too it, it declared simply to be commissioned as an officer, but not before passing academy exams.
>There is great pride for these machine beings it seems
>In being the vessel in which organics boldly go.
>>
>>84497912
All ship AI eventually have a go at their chief engineer. It worked out incredibly well for Geordi.
>>
>>84498000
A true engineer doesn't need the holodeck to make sweet love to his shipfu. Only a Fleshlight with integrated USB.
>>
>>84498000
>All ship AI eventually have a go at their chief engineer. It worked out incredibly well for Geordi.
Well the joke is that "Queen Cerritos" might actually BE a supernatural creature, that and the fact that she has the same personality as Billups' mother, who she of course has a huge grudge against.
>>
>>84496887
>Do you think I'm cute, Picard-otosan?
>>
Watching e2 of SNW made me realize:
For once, crew diversity in a nuTrek show doesn't feel forced here. It's really on par with the Expanse in this regard - yeah, people are all different, there are more women then men at dinner in the captain's cabin (could just be Pike doing his best to have some fun time for himself I guess), but at the same time the director doesn't try to shove that all in your face - it's all for character development, which is not amazing, but definitely there.
>>
>>84499326
Yeah, so far SNW isn't bad, it's decent. Could be better but it is also a first season so we need to get a lot of BS out of the way before we get more into the meat and potatoes of Trek that I believe will start showing up soon.
>>
>>84499403
SNW's got the advantage of Trek season 1's generally being not great, and the other nuTreks setting the bar at a subterranean low.
>>
>>84500107
Yeah for that reason I'm not going to watch it until the first season is over.
I want to know if the show has merit beyond not being "better then Picard and Discovery" before I spend any of my time on it.
It is too early to tell right now.
>>
>>84496887
>Black
>>
>>
Finished SNoW e2.
First ep was passable. This one was actually enjoyable. The characters are getting development, the ship is being shown from more angles inside and out, the action is subtle and measured, and it even managed to make me have a few thoughts.
Finally, I have some hope. They may still royally fuck it up later down the line, but at least I know there was an attempt.
Also, I can't decide who'd make a better waifu in the long run - Uhura or Chapel; both are kinda cute.

>>84500416
>no NX-01
Sad, but also real cute. Would love to see some hint of dat Romulan tech in Defi-chan.
>>
>>84499326
Tbh, it only ever felt forced in discovery. For all of Picard’s problems, its cast wasn’t one of them,
>>
>>84500416
cute
>>
>>84500474
There's also a severe lack of Ent-E.
>>
>>84496184
That doesn't look like somewhere I'd want to live either, desu.
>>
>>84501439
A nice go around the ship with a sandblaster to get rid of all the fucking glossiness - and I'd be good to go.
>>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G982GjpWZDU
>>
>>84500416
You packed a lot of personality in there. Very nice work.
>>
>>84501575
With how much I liked first two seasons, for some reason this... doesn't spark joy.
>>
>>84501575
Good to see it's still alive.
I like how The Orville has this very recognizable colour palette.
>>
>>84500416
Wait did you just make this holy shit
>>
>>84500416
Damn son. Dis be good. Would love to see more from you.
May I suggest a mushroom-looking necklace for Discovery-san?
>>
>>84500416
I ASSURE YOU THE STATION
IS
VERY
FERTILE
>>
>>84501851
Well duh, the voles can't stop breeding.
>>
>>84489687
Well yeah, you don't need many for an effective protest.
>>
>>84501872
They aren't the only things breeding in there.
>>
>>84500416
Thanks, it's the worst thing I've ever seen.
>>
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>>84502124
KAWAII
>>
>>84502004
>Well yeah, you don't need many for an effective protest.
True, except it was an attempted coup, one that would have required larger numbers if they were to execute the Vice President like they wanted.
>>
>>84494284
I wasn't expecting this erection.
>>
>>84500474
>>84500766
I aim to please.
>>84502038
I am not only to please, but to upset and confound.
>>
>>84502345
Now draw her in a mirror, darkly
>>
This thread is giving me the stupidest boner I’ve had in years.
>>
>>84501575
I'm still disappointed Orville wasn't a straight up comedy. I want a slice of life The Office style comedy show set in space.
>>
>>84501793
“Dude, it’s like we’re all spinning…”
>>
>>84502345
>>84502596
People like you are one of the few reasons I still come on /tg/ after all these years.
Also,
>Disco-san has no neck
My sides just achieved warp 9.
>>
>>84502596
>detached head
fucking fantastic
>>
>>84502596
>>84502345
>>84500416
Are the eye colors meant to represent ship's primary purpose? Shit, son, I can't stop being impressed.
>>
>>84502593
Lower Decks is right there
>>
>>84502767
Yes, except for DS9 and NX-01. Glad someone caught that.
>>84502436
CRAWLING IN MY CRAWL
>>
>>84502900
oh my
>>
Kelvin Enterprise next?
Or “stripped” Cerritos?
>>
>>84503170
>Kelvin Enterprise
Just 1701 but bigger and with more bits.
>“stripped” Cerritos
Already hard for that wire mesh underwear
>>
>>84502900
> Glad someone caught that.
Also except for Voy and Cerri their skin colors are matching their captains'. Now that's probably a coincidence I guess
>>
>>84503247
In the parallel universe created by the time travelling of the Romulan mining ship Narada, the Enerprise pads her bra
>>
>>84503170
I was actually going to do the second one, but I’m drunk and tired so I must bid you goodnight.
>>
>>84502767
Wait, I'm not seeing it. How does a ship's primary purpose translate to color here?
>>
>>84504264
Ent 1701: primarily explored uncharted space
Ent D: still focused on exploration, but now more of an established flagship, did a lot of diplomatic stuff.
Defiant: Combat, was also an experimental ship utilizing a lot of new technology
Voyager: exploratory vessel
Cerritos: infrastructure and development
>>
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>>84496909
>>
>>84501575
Can’t wait for funny family guy one to tell me god is bad while sitting on his 14 dollar chair for the hundredth time!
>>
>>84502345
NX-01 looks like she needs a hug.

>There’s time travelers and Romulans and Xindi and everyone is piling so much onto me and expecting me to fight and I just wanted to explore and meet new people and make friends and I WASN’T BUILT FOR ANY OF THIS…
>>
>>84506458
>Last week I met an older version of myself who helped me erase her from existence by avoiding the circumstance of her time travelling and it’s been keeping me up
>>
Should I start watching Voyager? What really sets it apart from TNG, DS9, and TOS if you don't mind me asking? Does it really go batshit insane with some sci-fi concepts and is the most comedic of the old Treks?
>>
>>84506458
Well fuck now I'm sad
>time for rebuilt version with secondary hull.
>>
>>84506931
Voyager is messy. Half the writing team wanted to do a TNG style “let’s meet aliens and solve their problems” show whereas the other half wanted to do a “dwindling supplies and no allies, how far will Janeway go to protect her crew?” show. It frequently has tonal clashes. That being said it does have some pretty good episodes that explore more out there science fiction concepts. Give it a try, it has its moments.
>>
>>84506931
Voyager gets shit on a lot but it's biggest problem is a lack of consistency. Not only is the slow serialize of ds9 done away with but different episodes have different authors and it wears that on its sleeve. Thus insaneway. Fun show if you don't like an episode skip it but still leagues better the nutrek and its best episodes are right up there with tng and ds9.
>>
>>84506992
You know it suddenly occurred to me that while the Prime Universe develops the NX refit along its way up the tech tree towards the Constitution, the Mirror Universe could very well have developed the same NX refit using knowledge gleaned from the USS-turned-ISS Defiant. It’s been speculated that the reason the Terran Empire is only at TOS level tech by TOS because they’re too busy backstabbing each other to properly work on technology, so the Terrans only managing to get to the refit by basically stealing the tech would be in line with that.
>>
>>84502596
What's that thing in her mouth? It doesn't look related to the bridge flamethrowers.
>>
>>84507252
Looks to be a vape pen. She's smoking mycelial network spores.
>>
>>84506458
Meanwhile Cerritos is weirdly upbeat given she's constantly in situations far beyond what is expected of the ship
>>
>>84507388
Speaking of, if shipfu-Anon hasn’t started drawing the stripped down Cerritos yet, can I make a request?

She isn’t embarrassed or trying to cover herself or anything. She got stripped down to do a job saving her big sister and she’s gonna do it!
>>
>>84506458
Don't worry.
She has faith of the heart.
>>
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OWP>>84489037
>>84491871
>>84491596
KÖij,xjzpizOÖP자본fdsxga주의sdäsöaw2232dfالرأسfdshمhالية
>>
>>84507262
>Vape Pen
If booze is still around, with it's inarguably negative effects on the body, would pot, cigarettes, psychedelics, or any other minor indulgences be legal in the Federation? Or at least on Earth.
>>
>>84507585
Well somebody’s got to be embarrassed.

I had a proper debate with myself trying to figure out how stylized to make normal non-shipfu characters. I thought it was hilarious drawing a cartoon character semi-realistically, getting manhandled by a giant anime girl, but it looked really weird so I toned it down.
>>
>>84508167
Why didn't we see it before?
Even the Cerritos itself enjoys NAKED TIME
>>
>>84508167
The thumbnail looks like it has a bulge, and I'm slightly let down the expanded version doesn't.
>>
>>84508363
I'd like to get my hands on her ample nacelles if you'll forgive my jjtrek reference.
>>
>>84500416
I want to imagine Defiant being like two heads smaller then DS9 and being way too protective of DS9.
>>
>>84496169
>start up game with some internet friends
>they always have a little trouble treating the game seriously at first before they mellow out
>game starts
>within five minutes they’ve all decided to rollplay as bajoran jihadis, deciding that their previous character was a spy for a bajoran organization inspired by the obsidian order
>the dm is laughing so she lets it happen
>>
>>84502596
Disco looks like she'd be all chill, but she's really always one bad drag away from having a psychotic episode.
Can sometimes be found having heated conversation with the leprechauns who live in the walls.
>>
>>84506931
>>84506999
Voyager is the show of wasted potential.
It's got good episodes and bad episodes. The bad episodes will sometimes make you laugh, the good episodes will make you wonder why they never further or did more with the idea then a single episode (or two-parter).
It's a good show to put on in the background while you're doing other things.
>>
>>84496887
The best part is this is Barclay's idea
>>
>>84509534
To be fair it's passed the admirally and the federation budget board. Not his problem.
>>
>>84489716
One thing that bugged me is how each shot from the enemy ship was enough to knock 10-20% off the Enterprise's shields, but during the "Ortegas Maneuver" they took over six hits. By that point their shields should have been gone and at least one nacelle sheared off.

Does that sound nitpicky? Yeah, probably. But you know what else it is? Pretty common in Trek. We're back, baby! Ridiculously sliding scale of drama, how we missed you!
>>
>>84490136
I do like how whenever another ship hailed them Pike scurried to stand in front of the viewscreen. I'm not really sure what difference it would make, exactly, but it was amusing to watch. Like the true measure of diplomacy: never let them see you sitting down.
>>
>>84494400
One thing that carried over from the other new series is an extreme lack of discipline/professionalism at their posts. People tend to be very jokey, very emotional, very quippy. Very relaxed about their ranks, too.

Now don't get me wrong! Old school Trek had plenty of moments where someone, especially Tom Paris, would make an off-the-cuff joke or reference. It's kind of a running theme for helm officers, and possibly/probably stems from the "hotspot pilot" archetype. Still the new series, including this one, don't have much of a sense of military (style anyway) command structure. The lone exception is LD but they play up the serious senior officer schtick, alternately playing it straight, playing it for laughs, and just outright deconstructing it (especially when characters act like it's the senior officers putting on airs but beneath that surface they can be as vulnerable and goofy as anyone else on the ship).

I suppose it feels worth mentioning about SNW for a few reasons. The first is that Discovery was always a shitshow, plus their character focus on non-bridge officers greatly skewed the usual dynamics. With Picard it's a given because they're a motley band and only a handful of them even have a rank at any given time. The last is that it does feel off with Pike in the TOS era. It's rather like what they did with Sarek, smoothing out his rough edges and making him far more genial and sympathetic. It's also a sign of being a very different culture we live in. Pike was far more like TOS Kirk who rarely let his "defense screens" down and maintained a fairly rigid ship, not that they weren't able to laugh it up now and then.

Some of this is nothing new. Picard wouldn't have hosted an informal luncheon including cadets, Sisko definitely would have with his "Kiss the Emissary" apron and everything. Janeway would (unless she was brooding again), though she'd leave the apron to Neelix. Archer was more a one-on-one breakfast sort of guy.
>>
>>84510538
They need to play Pike as the ship’s “cool dad” for at least two seasons and then have him randomly say something incredibly sexist.
>>
>>84510556
I find the changes they've made interesting, so I'm not necessarily complaining. Especially the changes made to modern Pike, which is closer to Bruce Greenwood's portrayal in the JJ Treks. I still like the actor they chose for this, and one thing they get pretty well is that Pike has a way of ruminating on personal matters and shutting down, while happily leaving out his wanting to settle down on a farm with his two horses and raise green animal women.

I think that's largely a good thing. It's consistent. They show Pike stumbling on his emotions now and then before recovering and carrying on, but he generally saves his full on brooding for when he's alone or with one of his confidents. Number One is a good choice with Boyce not present. I am a bit worried, though, that each episode will keep having hints of his freaking out over his fate and some otherwise unrelated matter will nevertheless give him insight. It's not the first time we've had a character start with heavy emotional baggage, but Sisko was able to largely get over the loss of his wife thanks to the Prophets and then only occasionally showed his lingering feelings, like in the episode that takes place on the anniversary of Jennifer's death.
>>
Was the STA Disovery Campaign Guide ever shared? I gather people don't like the show, but I like the era (though not enough to buy it, obvs)
>>
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How would you make another show set in a starbase? DS9 was located on the frontier far from the rest of the Federation, and there was a wormhole there to bring in new species from a faraway location.

What cool situational gimmick would you employ to keep things fresh and interesting in a stationary location?
>>
>>84510939
I think someone linked it here once the digital came out.
>>
>>84510956
A starbase set basically smack-dab between the 4 founding fed worlds dealing with shit like
>Refugees
>Dominion War vets
>Social issues on those worlds
>Therapy for dudes who boldly go

Make it like Lower Decks in the respects that it's not necessarily about boldly going, but more of the hum-drum day-to-day or examining the people and culture of the Federation itself, especially member races we don't see much of.
>>
>>84510956
Sure, though instead of a Cardassian hand-me-down I'd really love for a full on Starfleet starbase because I'd really like to see more of those. I'd also jump ahead and give them their own "Defiant" as in a ship that acts as both a homeguard and first responder from the ol' home port. Something that like with the Defiant won't always be around, doing other things as the plot dictates the station not have it available, and also some plots that take place solely on the ship. And of course they can have Runabouts or Runabout-equivalent, and so on.

Having a major hub deep in Federation space could be interesting but probably too hard to have huge dramatic threats every other week when you can have a fleet brought in at a moment's notice (DS9 struggled with that being so far away on the Federation border). You might get away with a small station in an underdeveloped or border area, even one that was mothballed. Say the Federation scuttled it after a Borg crisis or the Dominion War or if you set it later enough during the "FUCK YOU OLD MAN" era when the Federation was pulling back and consolidating on their own interests instead of helping everyone else. In fact that last one might be interesting if it's a hopeful sign that the Federation is opening up shop again, moving out of its brief stick-up-the-ass phase, and has to help a region they abandoned and win back a lot of trust. I do like the idea of going "old school" help-the-helpless and hopeful plots but without the parade of never-ending universe ending threat arcs.
>>
>>84511123
> the "FUCK YOU OLD MAN" era
????
TMP?
>>
>>84511047
There's always the danger in that of a story that might lead to exploring the disease the heart of the Federation. That basically the founding worlds at the core of the Federation have grown complacent, maybe even a bit decadent, completely out of touch with the needs of people who haven't been getting the full attention of the Federation and all their needs seen to for several hundred years.

There's really nothing new about that. Sisko's big speech about how easy it is to be a saint in paradise, for instance, how little even Starfleet admirals understood the situation at the extreme borders of the Federation. What I'm getting at, broadly speaking, is would you trust, say, the Discovery writers room and especially the Picard writers room to handle this kind of angle? I wouldn't.
>>
>>84511177
>>
>>84511177
TMP? Really? Pretty sure the Fuck You Old Man portion of the TOS stories was Search for Spock. They finally make it back home after putting their asses on the line saving everyone from a psychotic superhuman, losing many of their cadets as well as Spock, then they get home and everyone treats them like shit. Scrap the Enterprise to make way for the new Excelsior hotness, tear apart the crew, being an admiral (and several times a hero of the Federation) no consideration whatsoever, Uhura has to deal with young punks, so on. At least their treatment in The Voyage Home made up for it. The only punishment was Kirk being demoted and even that was them knowing he'd be happier as captain.
>>
>>84510956
JSA style venture between the Federation and another faction to try and create a sense of unity and share culture and understanding. You'd have diplimatic missions, animosity between personnel, random traders coming through peddling their warez, and sabre rattling.
>>
>>84511187
>Would you trust Discard Writers
No. And if there was a show to look at the heart of the Federation it fucking better be about the feds cleaning house, getting their act together, and recommitting to the core ideals of trust, cooperation, and learning. Fuck this moral greyness shit.
>>
>>84510956
I'd do a fakeout where you have a show called like Star Trek: Resolute or something "anchor"-y to indicate that you're doing a station show, and literally the entire first three episodes would take place on the Federation replacement build of DS9 so you think it's happening there, you even have cameos from old DS9 cast to tie off old plots/give cameo cred to the show/introduce new dangling threads, everyone is a guest star - everyone - for those episodes so there's no guessing from credits how it's going to work.

Then in ep four you're thrown onto a colony starbase. There's species from Voyager or whatever to indicate the rough position, but no wormhole, no fate of the quadrant crap to fall back on, it's a Federation expansion into uncolonized space episode. They've got a starbase, but it's shitty compared to the new DS9 - it's what they could move out there, the rest has to be constructed in-situ: they've got a couple of small starships, but no cloaks or Defiants or whatever. Three captains, three crews, small colonies on dozens of worlds nearby, the bulk of the Federation five years at high warp away, the nearest outpost six months away at cruising speeds. It's a Federation politics show slash Western slash Enterprise S01/SNW gentle explore. Show five we're evacuating a colony due to natural disaster. Show six we're facing off with the colony that the evacuees are going to because there's no time to take them elsewhere and the new colony are being dicks about it. Show seven we're trying to protect another colony who didn't let on that they knew their world had already been claimed by Hostile Local Species and its loosely-federated interstellar society. We have to evacuate them. They don't want to go. Is it going to be war? Are we going to leave them to die? We've got three more episodes this season.
>>
>>84511363
I don't mind some moral grayness. You can't have things too rosey after all and internal issues are a key source of drama we're familiar with. So many compromised Starfleet admirals, good god. Not everyone has the bluegill excuse but at this point I'd almost rather they reveal the return of the mind control worms as responsible for whatever the fuck happened to the Federation in STP. A more subtle, long term approach since they got caught last time.

I mean I'd still bitch about it, because I don't really want it, but it would in some ways be a better explanation than, "Our own droids destroyed Mars, better Make Earth Great Again!"
>>
>>84511490
>reveal the return of the mind control worms as responsible for whatever the fuck happened to the Federation in STP
That was mainly the doing of the romulans, unfortunately it also implied that Picard was the main character of the universe.
>>
>>84511490
Maybe I should say I don't mind moral grayness IN DEGREES. Some people act like Federation citizens should be perfect but even in the Gene years we saw plenty of people failing to live up to standards even in Starfleet. I feel DS9 had a good moral balance. Overall the good guys but having to deal a lot where things weren't or shouldn't be completely black and white morality. This is a good thing! We want these kinds of times when the souls of people are challenged and they struggle over what is the right thing to do, but threat the whole thing in a thoughtful manner. For some reason modern storytelling is so heavy and ham-handed. Subtlety is clearly a lost art.

>>84511556
The Romulans were behind the attack on Mars, however the Federation's overreaction and withdrawal was purely on their own. While Oh had infiltrated as far as the head of Starfleet Security (probably at the time of the Mars attack but I don't think that's known) she wasn't setting social policy.
>>
>>84510538
>Sarek

I feel like people forget Sarek's first appearance ended with him telling a joke, and that he didn't really become a super-serious figure until he appeared in TNG 23 years later in a dementia show. In fact most of his appearances prior to DIS are just exposition, other than that one dementia show and that one show where he was Spock's surprise father and told jokes.
>>
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>>84510956
Hot take but Discovery season 3 has the perfect setup for this. A starbase on the outskirts of the Federation, with people from both the Federation and the Emerald Chain working together and the ups and downs of what that's like. Give it to the SNW writers though.
>>
>>84512014
Discovery veered dangerously close to nuance before the whole emerald chain business was “solved” by burnham blasting the fuck out of their leader
>>
>>84512119
All of Discovery's problems are solved by shooting at people until only those who agree with Burnham are left.
The show literally started by Burnham trying to out-violence the Klingons.
>>
>>84511796
>I feel like people forget Sarek's first appearance ended with him telling a joke
Was he really joking when he said it seemed logical at the time? Always felt to me like it was, at best, both. It was at least played as a joke by the episode and some of those present. Still I feel like the counter to this is his first appearance in TNG when there are just certain things he felt which logic and his culture kept him from telling his then-wife, Perrin, but she was still aware of his unspoken feelings.

And therein lies the problem. Sarek treats Michael in a very human fashion, and okay they're "soul bonded" or whatever shit that was meant to be, but he could be more open about his emotions to her than his own wives? To his own half-human son? That's the kicker. While we know Spock ultimately chose to embrace his full vulcan heritage and ways, we know as a child he struggled. It's what began the great rift between father and son that continued well into their very old age. That he can be so open with his adopted human daughter but seem completely incapable of handling his own son is an extremely bad implication. Their attempt to soften and humanize Sarek's character backfired, as far as I'm concerned. And I mean that as no insult to the actor. They did the same thing in JJ's Trek with Sarek able to open up with Spock after Amanda's death, and if he could have ever done that before it would have helped the in the main timeline.

Oh well, it is what it is.
>>
>>84512119
It just blows my mind how genuinely good the episode was before being undone in the season finale. What were they thinking? Im relieved they at least handled the 10-C plot better
>>
>>84512436
>Was he really joking when he said it seemed logical at the time?
Yes. He was teasing his wife, who had immediately just complained about Vulcan logic.
>>
>>84512612
Teasing is a human concept.
>>
>>84512633
Sarek is a humanaboo.
>>
>>84506831
>>Last week I met an older version of myself who helped me erase her from existence by avoiding the circumstance of her time travelling and it’s been keeping me up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_QfUT-CIEw

>>84507388
>Meanwhile Cerritos is weirdly upbeat given she's constantly in situations far beyond what is expected of the ship
She wouldn't be QUEEN Cerritos for nothing;
"My Lucky Hull Divot is older than most of the Admiralty!"

>>84510262
>To be fair it's passed the admirally and the federation budget board. Not his problem.
Too many of the Brass want to Date their Commands...

>>84510538
>Old school Trek had plenty of moments where someone, especially Tom Paris,
>especially Tom Paris
Wow, way to make the thread feel ancient...

>>84510956
>>84511047
>Make it like Lower Decks in the respects that it's not necessarily about boldly going, but more of the hum-drum day-to-day or examining the people and culture of the Federation itself, especially member races we don't see much of.
This sounds a lot like my Orbital Construction Ship/Factory Town IN SPACE idea...
>>
>>84512865
>This sounds a lot like my Orbital Construction Ship/Factory Town IN SPACE idea...

Please elaborate. Trek fanfic or original story?
>>
>>84512905
>Please elaborate. Trek fanfic or original story?
Basically it was a show premise that used my Cavanagh Class Orbital Construction Ship as it's setting.
A massive Spaceship/Station hybrid more like what Gene probably envisioned for the Galaxy Class, it's function is to construct various space borne megastructures an Interstellar Civilization like the Federation would need, like Orbital Habitats and Subspace Communication Manifolds.
While to us 21st Century Humans this would be a glorious spectacle of science and ingenuity, the people of the 2480's would see it as the hum-drum but necessary infrastructure upkeep, most of the crew basically the Federation equivalent of Blue Collar workers.
This gives the ship a feeling like a contemporary Factory Town, with a bonus that work will probably never dry up because the whole town goes TO where they need to work.
The result is a look at how the peoples of the Federation get on with their lives. even if most of us would basically be O'brian, and just living in this utopian future.
>>
>>84512686
He is, but canonically not to the extent that he shows readily shows it, hence over a century of troubles with his half-human son. If he was making an intentional joke it was probably the effects of the surgery. That may sound weak, but I think it's, if you'll excuse the use of the word, logical. Vulcans have feelings, after all, they merely suppress them. Post surgery his emotional suppression system could have been down or otherwise compromised enough to let something like that slip through.

If I take a stand against a kinder, gentler Sarek it's more because I hate how rotten his relationship with Sarek was, or how they kept making it that way. Sarek cared enough to confess, in that stolid vulcan way, that his logic was uncertain where his son was concerned, but I hate that they never fully reconciled before his death. At least Picard was able to share something of Sarek with Spock.
>>
>>84513071
Feels like this pic would have been better with Janeways head in place of O'Brien and Tom Paris' head over the lizard. Fucking transwarp, amirite?
>>
>>84508167
> getting manhandled by a giant anime girl
Wouldn't that make your NX-01 roughly human-sized though?
>>
>>84513677
tough little ship
>>
So all these years I had only ever heard bad things about Insurrection, until I saw Lorerunner's rumination on it and he said everyone he knows either loves it or hates it, no in-between. So tonight I decided to watch it for the first time ever.

...I was actually surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Sure it's fun of dumb action scenes and I felt my IQ dropping whenever they happened (a flight simulator joystick, fucking really?), but at the same time I genuinely really liked every part of the movie that wasn't a dumb action scene. The Prime Directive argument. Ru'afo's speech to the admiral about how the Federation is feeling old and scared from the constant threats of the Borg, Cardassians, and Dominion. The ethical dilemma of killing the 600 people in exchange for eternal youth. It was all good stuff. Having seen it now, I don't know how in god's name people rank this below Generations. I'm not saying that Insurrection is overall a good movie, I'm saying that with tweaking, it could much more easily be a good movie than Generations.
>>
>>84514714
>fun of
Full of, I meant
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>>84510556
He's been a cool dad so far.
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>>84514714
Now read the book and lament the movie that might have been.
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>>84514714
I watched it again a few months ago and I actually hated it even more than I remember. So many things are stupid about it, from the exactly human-looking Ba'ku despite this being a big budget movie (probably so Stewart could romance a woman who didn't have weird skin/forehead) to the retarded dilemma of 600 pacifists who were so against the very technology that helped them find their world and ultimately save their way of life. And also for some reason these Ba'ku were able to exile an entire population of their youth despite being pacifists and having no way to chase them off an entire planet's worth of territory since they're literally just one tiny ass fucking village.

I never wanted a society to be wiped out harder than the Ba'ku.
>>
>>84514714
fwiw it's worst crime is being a follow up to First Contact, which was much better received. The thing is they were deliberate in its creation. What I mean is they wanted much smaller stakes, more of a cooldown rather than try a new bigger better badder thing. This naturally made it controversial from the start. Some audiences just want big things, instead this comes off as... well, kind of how they'd use filler during the series proper.

None of that is saying it's bad, but for better or worse audiences tend to expect the next installment to be at least as big if not bigger. There's a lot of action in the flick, but it doesn't have as much punch as Borg invasion of time to defeat the Federation before it's even born culminating in the first warp flight that brings humanity to the attention of the larger galaxy and of all the people we first meet it's the Vulcans.
>>
>>84514768
Yeah they did come across as smug space amish but at the same time, that's such a small part of the movie compared to everything happening around them. Also having just finished watching it, they weren't pacifists, they're just against technology degrading your spirituality. Remember, they reprogrammed Data into a killing machine, they aren't against violence.
>>
>>84507911
Breen = space ancaps?
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>>84514784
I've heard from a lot of people that it feels like a really long TNG episode with a bunch of action thrown in. Having seen it now I can say that's not true, that's Generations and boy does it show because half of that film is HEY REMEMBER THIS THING FROM TNG. Insurrection is a really long DS9 episode with a bunch of action thrown in because you can tell it was Piller who wrote it and not say Braga. What with the Federation being deliberately shown as being shady and the ethical arguments are a lot greyer.

Also, was the implication that the Son'a are rotting and dying as a side effect of no longer being exposed to the metaphasic radiation? That their years are catching up to them?
>>
>>84514768
I didn't think they exiled Ru'afo and the others, they left on their own to make their own way. They only wanted back because they were reaching the end of how they could extend their lives on their own.

>>84514788
>Remember, they reprogrammed Data into a killing machine, they aren't against violence.
They did what now? Do you mean when Data went rogue? That wasn't him being reprogrammed, he was damaged and some kind of self-defense routine kicked in. His higher reasoning was shot and his program fell back on protecting the Ba'ku.
>>
>>84514818
They specifically mentioned "his positronic brain was damaged and we couldn't repair it" which made me think they tinkered with it while working on him.
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>>84514788
No, it was worse than that. At no point are they ever asked if they would be willing to leave the planet if it will benefit billions/trillions of lives, at no point do they ever fight for themselves. Everything just kind of happens with zero input from them whatsoever.

They're not a compelling race in the slightest. And they didn't reprogram Data, he went berserk after suffering damage. Did you even watch the movie?
>>
>>84514828
That was after he went rogue. No wonder you have such a rosy memory of Insurrection, you probably had it running in the background.
>>
>>84514837
>That was after he went rogue
....the conversation yes, but they didn't see Data again until he was brought to the surface as he was beamed onto the Enterprise and put into lockdown until Geordi removed those memory chips
>>
>>84514813
TNG had its share of shady as shit Federation antics spearheaded by admirals. It's also the kind of story they'd tell. Less about fighting for the fate of the Federation than about its heart, though Picard sees fighting for the latter as saving the former. They need to be better, not jonesing on wacky particles.

Ultimately the story is probably the weakest because I'm not really sure how the hell that admiral expected to save the Federation that way. It's weak so...rejuvenate a few people? Prolong some lifespans? I suspect at some point it was more personal, that it was about the admiral wanting to personally live longer, but that was considered weak so they tried the angle that he's trying to save what he considers a dying Federation.
>>
>>84514847
Either way, they didn't reprogram him into a killing machine, they specifically said they tried to repair him. Everything else is your headcanon.
>>
>>84514853
>It's weak so...rejuvenate a few people? Prolong some lifespans?
The Son'a were going to fuck with the planet's rings so that the rejuvinative power of the metaphasic radiation would spread across federation space.
>>
>>84514866
In exchange for the radiation being so powerful it would kill everyone in the vicinity of the planet, I meant. Which answers the question of "why didn't they just set up shop on the other side of the planet and ignore the Ba'ku as they work?"
>>
>>84514828
I don't think they even worked on him. They just recognized the problem, but couldn't compare it because they ditched all their high tech tools. They couldn't reprogram him if they wanted to. He just defaulted to the Son'a (and by extension their Starfleet allies) being the enemy because they were the ones who shot him.

>>84514866
It's been years since I watched the movie, but this doesn't jive with me at all. For one thing spreading those particles across all Federation space would dilute them and their effect to the point of uselessness. I also am certain they were actually deploying a collector of some sort. The problem with is that it would poison the planet as it siphoned off that lovely rejuvenating radiation.
>>
>>84514889
We know they could set up shop on the other side of the planet, or even rejoin the rest of their people. The reason they didn't is because Ru'afo said a number of his fellow Son'a couldn't survive long enough for the planet's natural rejuvenation effect to save them. They needed it to siphon it off which would concentrate it.
>>
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>>84514853
Everything about the movie was weak, including the motivations. It's obvious they avoided having scenes where the Ba'ku were asked what they specifically thought concerning the dilemma because if they had agreed to leave the planet to save billions, then there would be no conflict. And if they didn't, they would just look like selfish assholes.
>>
>>84514905
They specifically state that that's what their plan is, they may be lying but that's what they told the federation and it's why they're backing the Son'a. The Collector is there to siphon it after it triggers the reaction.

>>84514918
>The reason they didn't is because Ru'afo said a number of his fellow Son'a couldn't survive long enough for the planet's natural rejuvenation effect to save them
No it's the admiral who says that but it is a legitimate point.
>>
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>>84514922
I really like how smug they acted towards Picard when he was surprised after they explained they tried to fix Data. They literally live like Space Amish and people aren't supposed to assume they're not good with technology. God I hate them so much.
>>
I will say though, I laughed my ass off when Ru'afo did his big NOOOOOOOO which I know was not the reaction they intended from me. But it's just the way F. Murray Abraham emoted it.
>>
>>84514922
It's funny but that shit would've been fixed with literally a single line of dialog. Just have Picard's love interest point to Ru'afo after the reveal that they're the same race and say "because when you stop being exposed to the metaphasic radiation after having been exposed long enough, you turn out like them". That not only gives a reason for them not to leave but gives the enterprise crew reason to want that shit spread across the quadrant.
>>
>>84514937
You've got it backwards. They're triggering a thermolytic reaction that will render the planet uninhabitable but allow them to collect the healing magic.
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>>84514989
That's not backwards, I just didn't include it because it's not relevant to the Son'a's plan. They were going to trap the Ba'ku in a simulation so they wouldn't be on the planet anyway.
>>
>>84514866
They're not going to extend it over Federation space. That's nonsense. The Son'a are collecting the metaphasic radiation. They're the only ones with the technology to do that, and they're working with the Federation because the planet is in Federation space. Admiral Dougherty expects the Federation bounty will be in the amazing new medical advancements to follow. That's what will save billions. The Federation is stuck working with the Son'a because, as the admiral says, their best minds have studied it and believe it's the only way to collect the particles.
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>>84515003
I'd say it's quite relevant. Maybe not to the Son'a (or for some reason you) but even though it would only render the planet uninhabitable for decades that's what caused Picard and his crew to perform their act of "insurrection".
>>
>>84515021
>They're not going to extend it over Federation space. That's nonsense.
I specifically remember a line where they talked about the idea of spreading the radation around after collecting it, but again, it's not a plot hole or something if the Son'a are just lying and want to keep it all for themselves. It's clear that Dougherty thinks they're full of shit and that they're little more than petty thugs but the benefits simply outweigh the costs too much.
>>
>>84514978
They only looked like that because they were extending their lives for probably centuries. If they lived as long as humans they'd probably age similarly.
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>>84515112
They had been gone from the planet for only a century and humans live to almost 140 in TNG's time. Granted maybe they just have lower lifespans but they are literally falling apart.
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>>84514789
The Breen are the final form of mask mandates.
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>>84514789
>>84515139
STO is only beta canon but according to that in a storyline you can only access in a different tab now, the Breen are super autistic about honor and can only kill those who can't fight back when absolutely necessary.
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>>84515126
>humans live to almost 140 in TNG's time.
I assume it's a lot longer because Bones didn't look THAT bad at 137, he just looked like a guy in his late 70s which is old but plenty of people live past that.
>>
>>84515146
Yeah, like those innocent college kids just doing their thing in San Francisco who were totally capable of fighting back.
>>
>>84515182
Second part of Breen culture: they are incapable of disobeying the orders of a commanding officer, even if the order would bring about dishonor.
>>
Well now that I've seen Insurrection, tomorrow or next week I'll finally watch Nemesis. I don't expect to like that because nobody likes Nemesis, the most praise I've ever heard for it is "the action is good, at the detriment to literally everything else"
>>
>>84510538
>One thing that carried over from the other new series is an extreme lack of discipline/professionalism at their posts. People tend to be very jokey, very emotional, very quippy. Very relaxed about their ranks, too.

Because this is what the new neoliberal "work environment" is. Even as far back as DS9, probably the one with the most relaxed and happy-go-lucky crew unironically, still maintained a sense of realism and professionalism that is expected in their field of work. Just look at this scene from In the Pale Moonlight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwzI-QGBcUA

Bashir is against Sisko's order, but does it in a way he is allowed to within limits. He respects Captain Sisko, both as a commander and as a friend, but is within his right to file a formal protest given procedure. If it were nuTrek, you'd have Bashir swearing and saying stuff like "the fucking hubris on you" and Sisko yelling.

The lack of the feeling of actual professionalism and competency in the crew is what takes me off nuTrek the most. I'm here to watch officers in the field, who trained for years to do what they have to do, not avocado eating millennials who voted Biden just so they could eat brunch and ignore everything else in the world.
>>
>>84515270
Hey this isn't really at all to your point but I think you're using "neoliberal" incorrectly.
>>
>>84515306
Yeah if anything neoliberalism was at its peak in the 90s and the workplace wasn't like that
>>
>>84515316
>>84515306
We still live in a pretty neoliberal-dominated world as far as it is academically concerned. In any case, there's still this virtue signalling, "capitalism with a human face" thing prevalent in modern upper middle class work culture that I think shows itself pretty well with how the writers treat Trek. Think of the corporate artstyle you see all over the place.
>>
>>84515363
...which has nothing to do with neoliberalism, it's because millenials have arrested development and want to pretend they're in high school forever and society is catering to them. I should know, I'm part of it.
>>
>>84515378
>Neoliberalism
The nightmare-rise of capitalism is neoliberalisms fault and capitalism caters to millennials.
>>
>>84515438
Captialism caters to everyone that isn't a socialist you fucking tankie.
>>
>>84515146
>>84515189
Probably a splinter faction, the Breen are not likely very unified.
>>
>>84515450
You know, while there's nothing inherently wrong with any of this beta canon I'm reading, I'm realizing that I kind of prefer the idea of the Breen only ever being explored in the idea of "once the Breen did X," rather than being fleshed out as a culture or species at all. Like I think it's fun to have a race that's just so incredibly insular and enigmatic that all we know of them is shit like "they made a whole Klingon fleet vanish without a trace once" and "the Romulans of all people find them so duplicitous that they have a saying about them."
>>
>>84515481
Indeed. What you don't see is often more powerful than what you do, and it's more fun to theorize. To me Breen culture is:
>wear your mask
>come to the aid of those who wear it
>be an asshole to anyone else
>>
>>84513071
That pic makes me happy. The O'Brien-Bashir bromance is very dear to me.
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No one cared who i was until I put on the mask
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>>84514922
>society of farmers
>they all look like city dudes on vacation
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>>84516106
the uh, healing magic prevents them from looking like they work... I guess
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>>84516176
They still look super clean
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>>84516176
that would actually suck pretty bad if the healing shit prevented them from forming callouses, their hands would be bleeding every day
>>
>>84514922
Tell me again how that D-cut top (and the Deep V cut in the back) help with farm work
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>>84516106
those are the farm owners, not the farm workers. what you don't see all of the black people working the fields
>>
>>84514714
Funny Fact: The Insurrection planet is the same planet that the Augments from Enterprise (S4E5-6) were going to settle before Archer archered.
>>
>>84515270
SNW is a little guilty of it but it’s significantly improved over STD so far.
That discussion about trust at the end of the first episode would’ve included tears and swearing at a superior officer.
Strange New so far at least seems slightly more like starfleet officers - it’s notably lacking a fucking Tilly, for a start.
I half expect them to shit the bed and go Disco on it, but I remain somewhat hopeful so far
>>
>>84497947
That gave me emotions out of nowhere. All the jokes aside, that's real Star Trek.
>>
>>84510538
>extreme lack of discipline/professionalism at their posts
I've noticed this a lot. It's not just Star Trek. Movies, shows, videogames; It doesn't matter the setting or the stakes, people quip like they're college students on break.
You could be in the middle of a war for the survival of the human race with half the crew dead and one last chance at victory and your teammate will spew jokes that a F.R.I.E.N.D.S. writer would toss out.
>>
>>84518375

A while back I saw some opinion piece about this.
It boiled pretty much down to protagonists being displayed as teenagers regardless of age because that's all the writers know.
Always quipping, solving interpersonal problems by shouting, no professionalism - just angry teens in extreme situations.
>>
>>84517127
Thanks Anon.
>>
>>84497947
That's literally the origin story of the Minds from The Culture (if you don't know about it, is ultraturboTNG with extra thousands of years)
>>84517060
>>84518375
>>84518494
SNW seems a welcome return to "compence porn" in Star Trek for now.
I can't wait for the last decade trend of over-emotional insecure wrecks as protagonists in media to be finally over once the zoomer target seems to be getting finally older. They totally spoiled several franchises with that shit.
The quipping may be annoying sometimes, but note how the Josh Whedon's TV series/MCU characters that originated it were usually competent people and cool under fire, unlike the retards in other media like Disco or the SW sequels.
>>
>>84510956
I had an idea for an anthology series that uses a Starbase as the common factor in the stories. We see the crews of multiple ships over the course of maybe 4-5 years interacting with the same alien species, with the crew of the Starbase being the same throughout.
First we get a couple episodes about a proper starship making first contact with a secretive but not outrightly hostile species.
Then we get an older ship trying to establish diplomatic relations and uncovering some unsettling facts the aliens.
Next up a utility ship (like a Cali or an Oberth) running afoul of the aliens with seemingly no warning. Basically the sort of ship that would go missing at the start of an episode of TNG. we see the crew evade and eventually outfox the aliens to get back to the station.
And then finally, another starcruiser comes in to try and resolve hostilities before they break out into general war.
>>
>>84514714
the problem with insurrection is that it is written like a 90s TV episode that some movie producer got a hold of and was like lets add all these fun radical scenes the kids will love.

The ruining the planet for some people in exchange for universe changing medical care is a cool idea, but the way it is executed not so much. There have already been episodes that dealt with outsider crew helping primative people before so none of these idea seemed ground breaking. There is only one federation representative there so its hardly the crew vs federation corruption, just the crew vs a dickhead and evil aliens.

Also, if you doing an ultra shady deal in the federation why would you import an outsider (data) who is known for having peak integrity and would certainly be opposed to you mission. Overall the movie is fun star trek, but its a lot weaker than all the others.
>>
>>84519330
>some movie producer
IIRC it was mainly the Patrick Stewart/Spinner mafia. The guys were tired of playing their characters as they were and wanted to be action movie stars.
>>
>>84519442
Man fuck Patrick Stewart.
Wasn't him swinging from the ceiling bare armed to dropkick the Borg Queen into a vat of acid and then snap her neck with his bare hands not enough for him?
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>>84519748
Apparently not. You can take a chav and give him a Shakespeare actor education and a star out of Britain, but not take the chav out of him.
>>
The Yosemite scenes, "I need my pain", and the ridiculousness of the Sybok plot makes the Final Frontier feel like a genuine TOS episode extended to two hours. It really isn't that bad. Am I alone in this? I loved it more than 3/4ths of the TNG movies. It's certainly better than most of Nutrek sans Lower Decks.
>>
>>84519925
It’s a very watchable and enjoyable kind of bad, like the low parts of TOS S3. The whole movie is silly and quotable, and I’m glad it exists.

>>84519442
Patrick Stewart’s attepmts at rewriting Picard’s character post TNG are utterly baffling to me. He truly has no idea what made the character popular in the first place.
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>>84520159
It speaks to his skills as an actor that a man who understands the character of Picard so little could play him so well.
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>>84519204
Obviously this idea hinges on how interesting and nuanced the alien species is, but the bare bones of it is very interesting to me. Sort of a DS9 in a bottle, you could even reveal that the aliens are getting more hostile due to outside influence, or as a reaction to post-hobus romulans secreting away their resources under the cover of cloak.
>>
>>84519442
>>84519748
>>84520159
>>84520178
Have you put any thought into how an actor would not "understand" a character he played for seven years?
>>
>>84520243
he's a method actor but he clearly had a better idea for the character and just wanted to act out his own fantasies
>>
>>84520243
Whatever the case is clear that he hasn't cared for TNG Picard since he began doing the movies, much less nowadays with the weak old and stupid Picard he likes to portray in the TV series he basically runs.
And let's not forget about having a romulan MILF in love with him a octogenarian. Jesus christ, that shit was cringe as fuck.
>>
>>84520243
Simple, embodying a character is a job for him, and he would like to embody a cool action hero.
>>
>>84520251
This actually kinda reminds me of something I've seen for years. When a show is deemed bad, there's also a claim that the creators involved are dumb or have an ego problem. Michael Bay and M. Night Shyamalan are examples that come to mind.

There is even more a sort of the inverse coming up recently. When that shit came out about Joss Whedon, there were people who said that Avengers or Buffy sucked. And after Will Smith had that slapping incident, I saw someone comment that he was an "okay" actor.

Where was this sentiment beforehand?

And now we have Patrick Stewart. It seems not too long ago that he was said to be a "national treasure", and now you people are saying he has an ego problem?
>>
>>84520344
After the Whedon shit got out, you can go back and see his previous work related to women in another light. For example, Black Widow in the Avengers movie always felt a bit sleazy, not to mention the forced relationship with the Hulk.

Stewart and Smith are both talented actors with great past roles, but at some point is clear they got air in their heads and began disregarding what people liked about their characters to do whatever they like. Is like the acting version of the Peter Principle.
>>
>>84520344
Ha! I always thought Buffy sucked, so clearly I am ahead of the curve and based!

I’m not that guy, and I’d like to think I have a more nuanced take on this subject, so here goes nothing. Patrick Stewart is objectively a very skilled actor, when given good material he gives great performances, even when given bad material he can deliver a great performance, the man brings gravitas to any role he’s given. He clearly takes pride in the popularity of Captain Picard, he sees the role as something that he will be remembered for, something deeply personal to him. So I believe there’s a level of projection at play when he gets to write for the character, or even just influence the writers. Whether that means asking to shoot more silly action scenes, or imbuing his own deeply personal trauma into the character. It’s not bad acting, it’s a storytelling problem.
>>
Arthur Dent dealt better with knowing about his future than Chris Pike.
Change my mind.
>>
>>84520653
I’m hoping they give him a good arc where Pike learns to live with it.
“Only an awful, boring, generic story can be ruined by knowing the ending beforehand. Maybe it ends in tears, but it will be beautiful anyway”
>>
>>84520344
>now you people are saying he has an ego problem?

It's part of the job to push your own interests and try to outline where you want your career to go. Look at it from his perspective: after TNG he could go on to do movies again (like Dune, which nobody loved because it wasn't even half as boring as the new one) or he could float back to the UK and end up doing bits on Last of the Summer Wine or The Bill or whatever. Since Buffy has come up: look at what happened to Anthony Head after that show ended. He came back to the UK - for his family I think, whatever that really means - and basically disappeared except for that one terrible show with Nigel Havers and Don Warrington. Imagine going from working 6 months of the year to 2 months.

But the way that comes across to other people is that you're asking them for shit that's ridiculous. Patrick Stewart actually gets a whole variety of roles within TNG, particularly in the last few seasons, precisely because he wants recent work to point to where he gets his shirt off, punches bad guys, figures out mysteries, romances beautiful women etc, but if you took those roles away from Star Trek and said hey, we're going to make a movie about Patrick Stewart as a pirate with a heart of gold who mutinies against his captain, you'd never get funded. Within the context of the show there are deadlines and everybody's getting paid to make him look good anyway, so it works out. Outside, it's a much harder sell, so from his perspective it's worth trying to use the show to sell himself. But everyone else on the show is trying to sell themselves as well - it's just that as the stars, Patrick and Brent got to ask for rewrites of eg Insurrection in a way that Marina and LeVar didn't.

But yes obviously actors are egotistical. It comes with the job, you don't get work if you sit around shrugging and saying "maybe I shouldn't work".
>>
>>84520833
> hey, we're going to make a movie about Patrick Stewart as a pirate with a heart of gold who mutinies against his captain, you'd never get funded.
This movie absolutely could have been made in the 2000’s.
>>
>>84520653
Thank you. Now I am imagining Arthur Dent having an argument with the Majel Barrett voiced replicator computer on how the tea it made does not in fact taste like tea.
>>
>>84520891
This may be the high point of nutrek, quick someone send this to whoever likes trek on lds.
>>
>>84521040
Instructions unclear, I am now banned from entering any Mormon temple in my area
>>
>>84521185
First contact with a new thread.
>>
>>84520653
Spock should just cut one of Pike's hands off. "Since you saw yourself in the future with both your hands, it is logical to deduce such future will no longer come to pass.



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