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Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade – less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/80674659/#80722465

>Previous thread:
>>84419270

>Thread Question:
What's your favourite OSR game that isn't traditional low fantasy? Be it sci-fi, post-apoc, modern, prehistoric, mythic fantasy, Oriental, or anything else?
>>
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Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!
Tag your post with [OC] if you want it archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com.

>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon setpiece
>4. Make a wilderness setpiece
>5. Make a city setpiece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
>>
>>84463275
New thread question is also FOE
>>
Rolled 7 (1d10)

>>84463287
>>
Yesterday I DMed the second session of my B/X campaign. Players agreed to help the town with its bandit problem and went to sleep. Next day, they hired retainers (a warrior, a ranger and two assistants to help them with transport and loading/unloading the cart( and set off. Somehow they managed to avoid any random encounter during the first day of travel, and stopped at a second village along the way. Here they looked for help, and found a young cleric willing to aid their cause for a very small fee. They rested in the tavern and set off once again. They avoided random encounters once again, and also noticed the ambush the bandits had set up further down the road. Session ended there because a player had to leave early.
How did your recent sessions go, anons?
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>>84463275
>TQ
Really like the atmosphere of Wolf-packs and Winter Snow, honestly.

>>84463502
>almost got conned by fairies
>befriended witch in the woods
>almost got every fighter and hireling killed by man-eating ogre and used up a very powerful scroll to defeat it
It was glorious. Pic kind of related, the game has a strong fairy-tale vibe and the GM is great.
>>
>>84463287
[OC]
>6. Make a magic item
rings of bibliogenesis: these two signet rings when worn on the index fingers of each hand allows the wearer to create a copy of any book of their choosing within their hands. this power can only be used once per year.
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>>84463502
>I cast Light!
>*Plink*
>I cast Light!
>*Plink*
>I cast Light!
>*Plink*

6HD niggas ain't nothing to mess with
>>
>>84463502
Introduced a bunch of new players to OSR, three of whom were getting their first (or second) ttrpg experience.
One of the new guys saw his hireling get eaten by carnivorous flies and has been a lot more careful since. Three people were spectating the session (it was online) and asked to join the game next time, which immensely flatters my GM ego.
>>
>>84463761
Meant at >>84463673 whoop
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River Dragonling (Baryonyx)
Frequency: Rare
No. Appearing: 1d4
Armor Class: 5[14]
Move: 14 on land, 18 in water
Hit Dice: 10
In Lair: 15%
Treasure Type: n/a
No. of Attacks: 3
Damage: 2d6, 2d6, 1d8
Special Attacks: see below
Special Defenses: n/a
Magic Resistance: Standard
Intelligence: Semi
Size: Large
Psionic Ability: n/a
The river dragonling or baryonyx is a large, bipedal, piscivorous theropod with a long narrow snout full of small shart teeth and large hooklike claws on each hand. These largely aquatic animals hunt fish in the warmer seasons and hibernate in riverside burrow in the winter. They deal damage with their large hand claws, bit their jaws are rather weak.
Having draconic affinities, they can control the weather bringing rain and storms, and may cause rivers to surge. They may also form whirlpools that can trap immobilize ships for 2d8 turns. Small vessels like rowboats have a 60% chance of being flipped in a whirlpool. Whirlpools effect all vessels and swimmers within 36 yards. Any vessel effected by the whirlpool is pulled in 12 yards per turn, and are flipped or immobilized when they reach the center.
Normally they eat fish, but they may attack humans and livestock if pickings are slim or their territory is impeded on. A lair has a 40% chance of having 1d6 eggs. Babies can be tamed, but take 12-15 years to mature and live for many decades.
>>
>>84464171
>>84464243
Reminder that id you aren't hacking together your own game from old wargames and don't avoid published content like the plagye you are a nu-OSR faggot and belong elsewhere.
>>
Rolled 9 (1d10)

>>84464425
But anon, that would require doing something that isn't bitching about it in a reply!
Anyway, rollan'
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What's everyone working on?
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>>84463890
Way to go!
It's fun to see how relatovely simple happenings like that can hook people in.
>>
>>84464453
Altering my character toke to show off the loot he obtained so far.

Also, I always crack up at how inviting the gargs look in this picture
>COME ON IN, WORST CASE SCENARIO YOU'LL FUCKIN DIE
>>
>>84463502
How much did you charge for the retainers, anon?
I can see monthly costs, though nothing for 'hey we're doing a dungeoncrawl for a day, want to come along and snag some treasure?'.
>>
>>84464453
Starting up with my first dungeon... (I'm new to this).
Using the 1e DMG random rolls to map it, though I need graph paper, so getting an A4 pad of it when I can shop next.
Any tips would be great before I put pen to paper and mess it up...
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Anyone ever wondered why Magic weapons and superheroes were on the lawful axis in chainmail? Just a knights and excalibur thing? I remember magic swords are more likely to be lawful than neutral or chaotic as well. So they are like monster slaying superweapons.
>>
>>84464663
You can always use the internets to gen it
>>
Have the OSE Kickstarter PDFs been leaked already? I want to know if they are any different than their previous incarnation when it comes to rules.
>>
>>84464453
some generic dungeons and treasures to write on flashcards.
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>>84464438
Incredibly Obvious Trap of Stupid Overkill[OC]
The trap consists of two raised platorms, one built on top of the other, with a treasure chest on the highest of the two. On the lower platform, in front of the treasure chest there's a large X painted on the ground in bright, fluorescent colors. Stepping on the X causes an horrible grinding sound, after which the pedestal opens to reveal a 100' pit with featureless, slick walls. The bottom of the pit is lined with 3' tall spikes coated in poison (save or die) and filled with acid (8d8 damage per round). After one exploration turn, the pedestal closes and superheated vapor fills the hole (8d8 damage, save vs breath halves). After another exploration turn, a sphere of annihilation is teleported into the pit. The chest is locked, but not trapped, and interacting with it in any other way will not trigger the trap.
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>>84464663
Always begin mapping from the middle of the page. You'll find it less irritating when you try to make multiple pages line up (multiple pages are also fine). It's also okay to reject a result you rolled, re-roll, or manually place a room or corridor.

Draw in pencil to start. Pen can come later when you have something you like. Remember that when stocking, rooms can be empty of treasures and mosters.
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>>84463275
How can I get over my obsession with traps that make perfect sense in relation to their location? I want to include traps in my dungeons but I can never come up with ones I'm satisfied with. They always feel out of place, regardless of how fun they'd seem. For example, if the dungeon is a ruined castle, I cannot for the life of me put in complex death traps because I can't see a reason for the original inhabitants to ever build them.
>>
>>84465003
Stop making traps
Make hazards instead
Possibly magical ones
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>>84464647
I'm away from my books, but I'm oretty sure B1 & B2 will sort you out. Generally, retainers get shares of the treasure (though, if memory serves, they only get 1/2 the experience that their share would normally provide). Wages are usually a "retainer" to keep that NPC available to you as a resource, otherwise they'll seek employment elsewhere.

Typically, an NPC retainer is expected to share in the danger like a PC would also expect to share in the treasure. Hirelings usually do not do combat, so you pay them for their service.
>>
>>84464499
>COME ON YOU COWARD, YOU AFRAID OF A LITTLE THUNDER LIKE A PUSSY?
>WHAT ARE YOU, A BIG BABY?
>ARE YOU NOT EVEN STEPPING IN THE MARSHES OF DEATH TO SEE HOW FAR YOU CAN GO?
>>
>>84464647
It isn't meant to be a "one" day dungeon crawl. They settled on different rates for the different hirelings (the warrior agreed to 10gp weekly + 2gp for each enemy killed, the ranger agreed to 10gp weekly plus a 100 gp insurance for his family if he dies, and the two assistants agreed to 1gp weekly). I just went with whatever felt sensible in the moment, though the OSE manual[\spoiler] suggest that hirelings should also take a share of the treasure (which I stupidly didn't remember to add in the contract clauses)
>>
>>84465077
and i fucked up the spoiler, great
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>>84465003
My suggestion would be to limit their placement to dungeons that are more appropriate.

That being said... A fortress/castle with a secondary entrance up through the lower levels might have crumbling infrastructure, and there could be a passage or bridge thay collapses. When it does, it drops anyone on it into a cave opening to a subterranean stream of very cold glacial melt (in my mind's eye, this castle is on a mountain). It wouldn't be instant death, but anyone wearing metal armor is almost certainly going to drown, and anyone not wearing metal armor would be swep away by the current.

If you don't care for underground rivers and such, you could replace it with other hazards. Jagged shards of obsidian. An old mine shaft. A hole filled with trapped, heavier than air gasses. A pool of hot, acidic water heated by geothermal processes. Etc.
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>>84465077
You're learning, and you'll remember this. In the future, have retainers bargain for shares. If the players don't like it, gently remind them that retainers level up too, and if they want their retainers to do so (and be useful at later levels) they should be more open to giving out shares.
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>>84465003
>I can't see a reason for the original inhabitants to ever build them
But here's the thing - maybe some jerk who came in afterwards built these traps!
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>>84465138
Simple improvised traps are actually pretty fun
Some of the don’t even have to do damage
Just alert enemies in some way
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>>84465217
Helmets filled with water or other substances, and perched precariously on doors is also fun.
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>>84465246
I laughed out loud when I read that
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>>84465246
Kevin did you buy a 4chan pass with dad's credit card again?
>>
>>84463335
Thread question is the truest of TOE, you small-minded cock-gobbler. Games that retain the TSR D&D mechanics but move them into other milieux are the only reason for the OSR to still exist.
>retro-clones are redundant and useless now
>faux-clones that exist to publish your house rules are fantasy heartbreakers and were always useless
>no need for adventures, you should be maintaining your own dungeon
>no need for settings, you should be building your own world
>no need for supplements, that shit is just splat bloat
To the TQ, I'm not sure that I can pick a single favorite, there are so many good choices. White Star is excellent for space opera. Skyscrapers & Sorcery is a worthy replacement for d20 Modern. Beyond the Wall and the The Hero's Journey both do their own brands of mythic/epic fantasy exceedingly well. Everything by Night Owl Workshop is a gem.
>>
>>84465300
Kevin is a grown man. He doesn't need his father's credit card. He's rolling in that RIFTs dough. For realsies!

>>84465260
Glad I could elicit something positive.
>>
>>84463275
>TQ
I think I prefer my own stuff that departs from the standard milieu. I used to hate it when sci-fi and fantasy got all mixed together, but I grew out of that in my late-twenties. I like having high level fighting men armed with belt energy shields and ray guns. It's fun.
>>
>>84465432
It was a reference to the movie Home Alone, anon
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>>84465478
Oh! It has been a long, long time since I saw it. But I can imagine goblins or kobolds pulling a Home Alone on an adventuring party. Until the PCs caught them. Then it would most likely get ugly.
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>>84463275
>that isn't traditional low fantasy?
This is retarded and not the standard.
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>>84464453
not really OSR, but attached.
And re-writing encounters currently.
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>>84464453
Getting bamboozled by Gygax 75. I looked at the week one prompt and realized, you know, I don't really have a good understanding of what makes a setting tick. So I've been looking at other settings I like to understand why I like them instead of working on my own.
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>>84464453
I've been working on a proof-of-concept of sorts for an a mostly outdoors dungeon that takes place in the ruins of a giant castle in the middle of a forest. Trying to experiment with verticality and scaling
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>>84465027
>Generally, retainers get shares of the treasure (though, if memory serves, they only get 1/2 the experience that their share would normally provide).
No, thats not correct, the rule is that a retainer is expected to get a half-share of treasure (so as a consequence, they'll level at half the speed of the PCs already without any need for an XP adjustment).
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>>84463335
Only FOE would say that.
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>>84468754
Nah that's boring and I like a little gonzo
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>>84465560
Well some people (let's call them "fucking idiots") get their descriptivist panties in a twist if you point out that "low fantasy" and "high fantasy" just mean that the setting is or isn't Earth, and both terms have nothing to do with whether the setting is also sword & sorcery or epic fantasy or any other sub-genre.
>>
>>84468754
But that's exactly what we're talking about here. A game like (say) B/X Gangbusters *is* an old-school D&D compatible, just set in the 1920s.
Or do you have some confused definition of "compatible" that includes setting as well as system? Some arbitrary requirement that the game include elves or spells or medieval weapons, or what? Are you, in fact, so deluded as to imagine that a game can only be compatible with TSR D&D if it also matches some arbitrary definition of "fantasy", like one of those dick-choking assholes who thinks fantasy and sci-fi must always be separate genres, fantasy can never have guns, etc., etc.?
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>>84469159
The classes, races, spells, magic items, and monsters of old school D&D systems don't work well in a 1920s setting. That's why TSR published a separate game with separate rules for playing gangsters and g-men.
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>>84463715
one tome of Xodast's research please
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>>84469708
kek
>>
My players want to make Molotov cocktails using only high proof alcohol. Is this possible? I guess I thought you had to have petrol chemicals?
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>>84469634
Piffle. That's just Forge-brained "system matters" drivel talking.
I have run a number of these games in modern and sci-fi settings, they work just fine. Your addlepated lack of imagination evokes my pity, though.
>>
>>84464453
Re-imaginings of classic dungeons are frequent, but it's always people remaking Isle of Dread or Keep on the Borderlands. Has anyone out there written a non-crap version of ToEE? What would it even look like?

>>84469159
Don't respond to concern-trolling idiots; he's already tried to start shit twice itt.
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>>84469634
It sounds like you are too stupid to be able to make it work
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>>84469864
Yes. The original Molotovc cocktails (the ones used by Finns in the Winter and Continuation Wars) were made mainly with alcohol. They also added tar to make it smoke more.
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>>84469864
You can make a molotov with ethanol, but it needs to be very high proof. But the higher the proof, the faster it evaporates.
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>>84470046
Why would evaporation be an issue? Molotov cocktails need to me tightly sealed anyway.
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>>84465379
>Games that retain the TSR D&D mechanics but move them into other milieux are the only reason for the OSR to still exist.
>>84463275
>What's your favourite OSR game that isn't traditional low fantasy?

>D&D no longer on-topic in /osrg/
excuse me while I roll away
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>>84470088
Don't let the thread deleter drive you out: he's the one posting all this garbage. Just post actual OSR content.
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>>84464453
>What's everyone working on?
I'm working on a wilderness travel system that will integrate morale / fatigue (deciding when and whether to combine these is one of the sticking points, or if even I should include both), weather, food, and more. Essentially, the idea is that if you hike in the rain, push yourself too far, etc you gain fatigue or lose morale or whatever, maybe both. If you have a nice dry campsite, eat food that is well seasoned, etc you can regain morale. But if you don't take care of yourself you will slowly degrade your morale, which I think should have little to no effect until it exceeds your Wisdom score, and even then very minor. But no one wants to take even a -1 on attack rolls and saves if they can avoid it by bringing 2 pounds of spices and not doing stuff their characters wouldn't actually want to do, like sleeping outside the town just to avoid paying for the inn (I know random encounters are a disincentivizing factor for this, but still).

Another issue is that I originally thought of this system for DnD 3.5, so that there would be a use for skills like Survival and Profession (cook) that actually had an in game effect. When I DMed for my dad we always rolled survival checks for finding a good campsite, catching fish, starting a good fire, etc and narrating based on that. Eventually his skill got so high it became a bit pointless since he could always coax a roaring bonfire from waterlogged branches if he wanted to, but i still wish I had given those rolls SOME small mechanic effect. BX doesn't have those skills so I'm not sure it will be as satisfying to develop this minigame without it just seeming like excess bloat. But I hesitate to ask alot of people since the consensus online nowadays seems to be that rolling dice is bad and slows down the game (?) As if we are short on time and rushing to some preplanned conclusion.
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>>84464839
They won't be.
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>>84470058
It's just an extra kink to keep in mind when dealing with logistics. Whatever vessel you're filling bottles out if will have to also be airtight, and with enough surplus alchohol to account for any evaporation, and whatever the hirelings skim off the top when you aren't looking.
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>>84470155
I think it makes sense to include fatigue and morale as two potential consequences of pushing yourself. The PCs can suffer fatigue, as they're not supermen and have just as hard of a time doing a forced march through the rain as the hirelings and retainers. Morale would only affect NPCs employed by the party. Sure, the PCs might be weirdos so in love with gold that they'd rather sleep in the woods than pay for an inn. But retainers aren't, and they'll grumble if they have to put up with that shit when they're close to civilization.
If you're going for "realism", it seems like anything that causes fatigue would also ding morale if done to excess. Hirelings would probably tolerate a day or two of short rations or hiking in the rain, but when your employer death-marches you through every weather on subsistence rations, you're going to have to be very well paid indeed to put up with that bullshit and still fight when a band of orcs shows up.
In conclusion, I want to see this system you're working on, and you should post it in the thread.
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>>84470511
This makes me think of the ratfags and antiratfags in /twg/. No discussion goes on because the people who start the problem pretend they're innocent victims and they're being attacked by internet bullies.
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>>84470545
I don't even want to imagine how bad /twg/ is now after The Great Roadmap debacle.
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>>84470649
If you're looking for the D&D general check the 5e one, OSR isn't limited to it.
>>
What would be some thematic subsystems for a game set in the afterlife?
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>>84470707
Are you looking for players who are dead or alive?
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>>84470678
The worst (best) thing /tg/ could do would be to consolidate all the Warhams and D&D sub-generals into their own super-threads. It'd be a nightmare, but it'd also be really, really funny.
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>>84470649
I think it goes without saying that OP is talking about old school play seeing that is what the thread is about.
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>>84470163
You mean they won't be leaked or they won't be any different?
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>>84470746
Basically, the players are all ghosts.
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>>84470873
Haunting objects could be fun, give players a way to make themselves part of an intelligent weapon.
I'd say reduced effectiveness of magical healing would make sense, to me healing a body is easier than healing a spirit
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>>84470350
I mean, splitting it between PCs and hireling is an idea. But if anything it's the PC morale that interests me more. It's never going to cause them to be unable fight, it's not gonna make them go insane and start killing each other, it will only ever inflict relatively minor penalties. But still penalties that they won't want. For hreilings, it's gonna be a pain to track their individual morales. As a group? Maybe. But different hiring times will still produce disparate groups.

I could post the vague idea I have, which is basically: if you have less negative morale than your wisdom score, you're fine. If you have more, you get -1 to attacks and saves. More than double your wisdom score is -2 to attacks and saves. Etc.
If you sleep in a wet campsite, that's 2 negative morale
March in the rain? Another 2
Lost? Cumulative 1 per day youre lost, to a limit of 10 total on the foruth day (after a while you probably just get used to it)
Boots worn out? This happens based on a random table of hiking events. 2 negative morale a day.
I can think of more but after a while it gets to be too much to keep track of.
If you spend 1 gp (or 1 sp on silver standard) of spices on a nights meal it's +1 morale. Fresh caught or gathered food? Another +1. Each night in a town you heal 2. Or 4 to 5 if you spend extra on luxurious accomodations.
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>>84464795
>Just a knights and excalibur thing?
Yes. Cursed *weapons* as far as I am aware were not a thing in the fantasy headspace of the time. Majority of known magic weapons required being "pure of heart" or something like that to wield, thus ruling out Neutral as well.
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You already know what I'm about.
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>>84464818
Good sites for this?
Ideally one where I could save it as an image file and it isn't an app or something I need to subscribe to?
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>>84471060
Runequest?
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>>84465027
Okay, I got those modules, will look later.
I know it's suggested not to have retainers at Lv.1 though say a party has the majority at Lv.2, what you are essentially saying is retainers are free though any that survive will take a cut of the treasure and you'll need to pay them to stick around if they worked out for you?

>>84465077
Sure, it isn't that... Though in B/X prior to Level 4 the session covers the dungeon only, so the DM decides how long it took to get there? I guess there is nothing stopping the DM making a hexmap to know distances before the campaign starts, though travel isn't covered really until Expert play. What I'm saying is, if you wanted to get a hireling for a single session's dungeoncrawl (knowing the next session is after a timeskip where a new dungeoncrawl will await), having a cost of 'weekly' rather than 'per dungeon' is more realistic though the DM then has to decide how much is charged and I think if they say 2 weeks for a session's dungeoncrawl, some PCs may feel gipped.
I guess the other solution is flat out prior to wilderness play trading gold for xp as is (carousing rule) and hirelings come along on a single dungeoncrawl mainly on the promise of treasure there and in getting them it reduces gold you'd get to trade for xp (if your PC and the hireling survive that is - also neat how there are rules to show if hirelings die, it does penalise getting more, as nothing otherwise would stop immoral PCs from ganking their hirelings upon leaving to get full shares...)
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>>84466537
Just grabbed it myself, anon.
I'm thinking of doing the same. I know I love pulp stuff; Conan, Elric and John Carter, Lovecraft stories and prefer that type of fantasy to Tolkien styled stuff with elves, dwarves and orcs (though I am very fond of goblins).
I'm considering looking at de Camp stuff. Smith's Zothique seems my kinda thing, though for some reason or another I never really got into it. Hawkmoon never resonated with me either.
However I like the Dying Earth future setting as presented in Vampire Hunter D (the 1983 novel; and it's 1984 follow-up 'Raiser of Gales').
I guess with Hawkmoon to me it felt very dated with a strong '60s vibe and whilst so does Elric, I guess with that set in a more mythic world it sits better with me as more, timeless?
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>>84471699
After looking at the Bork Morg ruleset, I'm not sure it should qualify as OSR, although its clearly OSR derived. I'm pretty sure its had its own thread anyway.

No idea what a Troika is.

The only thing loudly deleting a statement that appeared in a large number of osr thread op's seems to have accomplished nothing but ruining this thread in its infancy.
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>>84471906
This is the real OP text. Passive aggressive bitching about systems you don't like is not.
>>
/old/, here's the situation.
I'm gonna run a oneshot set in a not!-Egyptian necropolis.
The big setpiece is a portal to the realm of the dead that might open and the PCs may have to make a great sacrifice to close it.

So I'm wondering what you guys think. Any suggestions, any ideas?
Also, if you got an image that I could send to the players to illustrate the adventure, that'd be greatly appreciated too.
>>
>>84471884
No, you see it's people complaining about abusing mod powers that are the real issue.

Troika is a stripped down gonzo hack of Fighting Fantasy. Basically mashing Knave with something completely unrelated to D&D except "fantasy".
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>>84472075
Read Gygax’s Necropolis. It’s for 3e but it’s rich with not!Egyptian lore. The module itself is meatgrinder.
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>>84472075
You could also try raiding the Hickman Desert of Desolation modules for art and ideas.
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>>84472200
>It's people breaking rules repeatedly that are the issue
Correct. Mods didn't abuse anything, a shitposting thread got deleted and will get deleted again when you try to race to make one next
>something unrelated to d&d
Still not D&D general. Still ontopic.
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>>84472269
Thanks.
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>>84471715
Writing Gygax 75 pitches for settings I like has really helped me understand three important things:

>what's actually important about the setting and how they mesh together
>how player characters fit into that setting
>how the former influences the latter

I never really put the pieces together and realized that you need:

>a reason for dungeons (ancient civilization? aliens? mad kings?)
>a reason for dragons (or other terrors real or imagined that prevent people from easily picking through the dungeon)
>a reason to delve those dungeons (desperation, rite of passage, unhinged curiosity, duty, etc)
>a reason to be allowed to delve those dungeons (no long arm of the law)

Now I'm trying to hone in on cool fits for each of those things, plus some spice like an unusual technological level, weird magic or so forth.
>>
Feedback is a thing. Use it so an admin knows what’s going on with this general.
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>>84467529
I think that it's different depending on the source. I'm not actually claiming you're wrong, just showing where I got it from (B2, in this case, pages 4 and 5).

The reason I say you aren't wrong is because in the RC it says that retainers do not get a share of treasure (but giving them a share might make them more loyal), and are instead paid a wage for their service. The RC (pg. 132, in case you care to look it up) also states that retainers get a full share of XP.
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>>84472876
Done. Hopefully others do too.
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>>84473141
And this is the verbose AD&D 1e PHB discussion of it.
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>>84470978
Sounds like what you should do is make it a bit less granular and track it with talley marks. Every 5 is -1 penalty from morale, modified by wisdom modifier. Bad weather, lost, poor quality campsite, subsistence rations? 1 talley each. Two days of bad food and bad weather can start seeing PCs take penalties. I'd lump spices, freshness of food, etc together into one cleared talley. Cozy campsite, another 1 cleared. Maybe make it worth 2 talleys cleared if the weather is bad, because a good dry spot with a warm fire and a hot meal is that much sweeter when the weather is shit outside. Hell, you could use this to track positive morale bonuses just as well. Make a point of finding a good camp site and cooking a good meal every night? +1 to hit when you go into the dungeon.
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>>84471379
>retainers are free
I'm not saying that at all. Retainers will almost certainly want money up front to cover their expenses (which could include money to be paid to surviving relatives), but they'll also want a cut of the treasure since they're expected to fight is necessary.

It's well worth it, since retainers gain XP (at 50%), and thus remain useful if they survive. They also serve as ready organic replacement characters for players so they don't have to roll up a level 1 character.
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Tell me how this hexmap looks. The idea is the place was once the private preserve of the Emperor of the Hornet Throne and his favorites. They developed a massive network of canals so that they could pleasure cruise all around the peninsula, so that's why the autistic rivers everywhere. The two bordered by grassland hexes are the natural rivers, the rest are canals. Does it look varied enough? Too small? Too big? The hexes are six miles, and I'm planning on placing the starting town in the top left south of the mountains.
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>>84473915
>approx. 29w by 39 tall peninsula
It'll take a little over seven days to walk across it, and nearly 10 to walk from the bottom to the mountains (not factoring in different terrain types though). If the PCs have access to horses or their equivalent (riding lizards, terror birds, giant beetles, etc.), it'll be less, so my question to you is: Is that sufficient for your needs? How far way are you planning on having safe settlements be at a given point on the map? Who controls the peninsula? What portions are wilderness? Are there monster strongholds? How much rations or other resources do you want the players to have to use up getting to a dungeon and back again?

You don't need to answer me. These are mostly for you to answer for yourself. I just want to help out.
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>>84472317
I think things kinda simply. Like dungeons are just protective vaults for treasure, though yeah whose treasure is a big point to figure out.
I mean, you can suggest reasons to dungeoncrawl those places, though I feel that's more a decision for the players. For me atm, that these treasure vaults are filled with defences and are miles from the settlement, often in the middle of nowhere and left the hell alone (as people know most who'd try to loot will get killed gruesomely there) sort of has it that anyone can try if they want to, though most people are normies who would rather tolerate their mundane farming life than risk it. That again applies to the former, if you are risking life and limb for insane amounts of gold in a massively lethal at any moment pursuit - why is that?
Though I feel players really dipping into goes a lil against the vibe of old style gaming, I dislike the need for 3000 words of backstory, I like more emergent growth happening due to stuff that happens in-game.
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>>84474110
Also, how elaborate are the canal locks and connections?
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>>84473791
Taken on board.
My main thing on mentioning all this is mainly trying to figure out a legitimate amount of gps for hiring retainers that works on a 'per dungeon' basis for early Basic games, rather than 'weekly' for wilderness travelling that rightfully covers the days of journey it takes from one place to another.
Wilderness Travel isn't factored into early campaign pure Dungeon sessions that start and end there (of course the party does travel to and from there, though off-screen and to the DM whims or fiat, which I find isn't helpful if you want to just run a 'you start in the dungeon, go' kinda one-shot session).
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>>84474315
You could easily reduce this to a die roll. 1d6 (close) 2d6 (medium) or 3d6 (far). Result is the number of days it takes to reach (and also return) from the dungeon. Take the weekly wage and divide it by seven, and then multiply it for each day of travel the PCs will need to keep the retainer.

Don't count dungeon time. Retainers who survive get a negotiated share of treasure.
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>>84464453
was working on a non-vargshit early medieval germanic postapoc homebrew system until deep depression hit me over turning 30 soon and then i stopped creating anything
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>>84464795
A lot of magic weapons in the stories D&D is based on were specifically good-aligned. Durandal, Cortana, Excalibur all were weapons for good.
Keep in mind "magic swords" as a discrete recognizable category of weapon didn't really exist until D&D. The idea was mostly just that there happened to be famous heroes from myth and legend that wielded swords that were magic.

Same goes for superheroes, I imagine. Typically those with the most power and influence had an ideal or something noble they were fighting for
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>>84463275
Why is it more fun to subjugate the orcs and force them to build a dark stronghold for you that it is to simply kill all of them to the last one?
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>>84464453
I was working on a setting and a story-strong campaign that incorporates dungeon crawling heavily, basically an Ultima Underworld-style world where prisoners are thrown down a hole in the mountaintop into a magical labyrinthine underground but banded together to create a society inside. However, I don't think I'm cut out to be a referee, either that or I don't think anyone in my life would want to play this for any length of time.

Instead I've been playing in an OSR pbp and it's truly spectacular. Been having more fun there than I have with tabletop in a while.
>>
The best thing about OD&D that later editions lost was that many of the monster descriptions had built-in encounters or fodder for fleshing out the campaign setting.
Dryads have exact knowledge of the forest around them, which makes them immediately useful for players and worth seeking out. But while being nonviolent, they use a powerful Charm Person spell on 90% of the people that come toward them. This provides not just a compelling nonstandard encounter but also an obstacle that makes confronting dryads more interesting.
Orcs, while more straightforward, are still given intriguing details. They generally attack orcs of other tribes on-sight, yet the same isn't true for humans. This implies a hatred of other orcs that may supersede that of any group or adventuring party. This opens up countless possibilities for the players to interact and establish relations with orcs. Additionally, the randomly-generated orc leader provides the opportunity for creating a unique NPC that may stick out in player's minds. The Orc description tells you that when orcs are encountered, their tribe's location should be marked on the map for later reference. This means that a single orc encounter can have lasting implications for the campaign world.

No other edition really captures the blend of flavor and useful mechanical details as perfectly as OD&D. I want to bring that style back.
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>>84474650
I see that I’m not the only one in this thread who is a based chaos gang enjoyer
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>>84476111
Can you give a link?
I’m out of the loop
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If a Fighting-man player did not wear armor and instead wore dark colours, soft soled shoes and slinked in the shadows, how would you as a referee interpret this? Where do you make the distinction between Fighting-man and Thief, and perhaps even other classes?
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>>84465560
Are you saying that EPT isn't OSR?
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>>84476672
Old ≠ osr, hardly complicated, anon
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>>84464453
My crippling indecision. Really need to stop getting hung up on getting everything perfect and just provide some dungeons and some dragons, but I really struggle to even lay those out.
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>>84474538
>"magic swords" as a discrete recognizable category of weapon didn't really exist until D&D
that doesn't seem true bruh
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>>84476672
EPT is OSR, but that has nothing to do with low or high fantasy or low/high magic. It's OSR because it's a lightly altered LBB D&D.

>>84472269
>t. Ranny
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>>84473915
that blue better not be rivers
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>>84473915
I think your map looks really cool. Anon raised some great considerations but I think you've got a great base for some adventuring. It's a pretty fucking huge area for someone to have walled off as a private amusement park, about the same size as the whole of Scotland, but for a giant decadent empire that actually gives a pretty cool vibe, and the setup allows for tons of cool stuff, decayed canal mechanisms like Anon said, abandoned and ruined pleasure domes and palaces, bizarre landscape features like waterfalls sculpted for aesthetics and then abandoned, there's lots of potential there.

>>84472269
>Still not D&D general. Still ontopic.
OSR inherently implies D&D as you've been told many, many times already and Troika is absolutely not OSR by any measure or stretch of the imagination. It's as completely unrelated to OSR as GURPS 4e is – if not more.
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>>84474315
>Wilderness Travel isn't factored into early campaign pure Dungeon sessions that start and end there (of course the party does travel to and from there, though off-screen and to the DM whims or fiat, which I find isn't helpful if you want to just run a 'you start in the dungeon, go' kinda one-shot session).
At least some editions strongly advise the player to place the megadungeon adjacent to the starting town, so that travel simply isn't a concern at all until the PCs are high enough level to range further afield.
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>>84474812
Agreed, some of the OD&D monster descriptions are superlative and then others are just minimal, but the good ones hit a sweet spot that's never been equalled since.
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Bronze Age anon!
If you are still lurking, I got to sit down with a game creator this weekend to talk about his current project: a setting book for the bronze age old testament. Not written for OSR, but 90% setting, maps, and lore: so if Ishtar, Ba'al, and chariot battles piques your interest - check out this interview.
Details on the blog:
https://clericswearringmail.blogspot.com/2022/05/an-interview-with-josiah-mork-of.html
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Good first adventure for 6 players at level 3?
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>>84477723
Shattered Circled
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>>84477735
>After her werewolf boyfriend, Johnny, tried to kill her, Persephone Alcmedi finds herself in the comforting arms of powerful vampire Menessos. She’s trying to sort out her feelings for the two men, but not even Seph is above the confusion of tangled emotions.
nice
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>>84465003
Traps appear self-emergent from the stone. People's worry and fears about haunted or ruined places allows the place to magically shift to make that unease warranted.
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>>84465003
This is where the classic setup of "the ruined castle is the dwelling of a more or less crazy archmage who is actually also secretly still alive in the depths of the dungeons and directing operations" comes in handy.
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>>84477555
The blue are artificial canals, mostly. The two natural rivers run down from the mountains and terminate in the southern swamp.
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>>84473915
Gorgeous! Love it! Got enough area surrounded by natural barriers to set up a couple different faction or domain areas, spaces for players to establish themselves, and variations in biome to spice up the different dungeons they may visit.

Anon (>>84477555) brings up a good point about the rivers. Naturally, rivers come together - not form a patchwork like they appear to here. It's possible for rivers to splay out in this environment, to separate, as eroded silt forms a delta (look at coastal Louisiana) - but you don't really see what you've created there, based on biome types, in nature. You explicitly state its *not* natural, which is fine, though you may consider who controls the locks now, who maintains the mechanisms and canals - why they haven't collapsed in dereliction, and what that may entail.

Be careful starting them in the north - make sure the players know that they are intended to travel south: I once did the same thing, place the start near a map edge, and I found the party IMMEDIATELY went in the direction of no more map. That can be mitigated by conversation or by putting them in the south instead: so no pressure.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
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>>84476672
I'm saying 'low fantasy' isn't the standard silly.
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>>84479281
>you may consider who controls the locks now, who maintains the mechanisms and canals - why they haven't collapsed in dereliction, and what that may entail.
Oddly enough, that was one of the first things that came to mind when I thought of using canals. My solution is that there's an artificial species of canal-maintainers. Closer to moorlocks than dwarves, but mostly they don't give a fuck about anyone as long as they don't damage the canals. I figured they'd be a sort of neutral-ish party that could exist all across the peninsula.
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>>84479452
Make sure to put an encounter with them on your encounter table (a work party going to or returning from a lock/canal, a pilgrimage to a holy site blessed by the Architect, etc.). If the PCs talk to them, you have a rumor table exclusive to the moorlocks.
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>>84479891
*could have, rather.

Not trying to tell you how to run things.
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>>84473677
Idk if I want to have it give bonuses but I definitely agree that it might be ebs to lump it all together and possibly even remove the Wisdom score thing as it will be too much to deal with. I'll have to type up an actual 1 page pdf of the rules and psot them, the only issue is it's integrated with the rest of my travel rules so it might be 3 or 4 pages once it's done.
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>>84473915
Rivers need to branch, not form a grid. Other than that it looks good. Has a shape to it.
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>>84479978
Most of those are canals. I should probably find a way to differentiate them so I can repost the map without having to clarify every time.
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>>84477609
Yeah, y'know rereading the DMG's Henchmen section, it seems a pain in the ass to deal with all of that... My respect for DMs and players getting their chain jerked in playing all that out. It's clear in Basic it's the same method for hiring retainers, just that the prices for the process of hiring retainers aren't given in Basic and they don't go into the sheer math of how many potentials are in town, how many reply to the advert and the percentage of interest for the offer.
I guess going through all that is a great way to piss the gps from the last crawl away for xp though.
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Podcast of an interview with Alex Macris of SCKS by Rick Stump. Podcast link is on the right toolbar.

https://harbingergames.blogspot.com/
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>>84479996
I like the idea of ancient canals overseen and maintained by magically created race or constructs that are autistic about canals and pretty much ignore everything else.
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>>84473915
soul patagonia-india copycat?
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Hey friends!
If I wanted to make content for OSR, what would you say people would be most interested in?
I'm assuming adventure modules, but is there any other area of content you think is lacking? Would campaign setting sourcebooks, rulesets/"Expansions" to current systems etc. garner interest? Anything else that comes to mind you want more of?

I'm considering getting into producing stuff for OSR, so just looking for feedback on what kind of content people would be interested in.
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>>84481791
Monsters.
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>>84481837
I'm just in the beginning stages of drafting a few adventure modules and that'd come with the territory. Would just a book purely of, say, 50 or 100 monster statblocks garner interest at all though?
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>>84481791
Got a blog already? Show us some of your stuff.

>>84481852
Maybe? It really depends on how well you can market it.
You probably won't make a living just from selling RPG stuff, especially not by only shilling it in this godforsaken thread, but I want to think you know that already.
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>>84481894
>Got a blog already? Show us some of your stuff.
No, just starting to think about producing some stuff. What sites would I use to start one?
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>>84481918
Blogspot is the golden industry standard but if you are a radical hipster you can also use wordpress.
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>>84481986
.... but what if I make a neocities though?!
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>>84481409
I didn't realize it when I was mapping, but I think I'm drawing on the general shape/climate of India. Initially I was using deciduous forests and it didn't seem right. I think the idea of an emperor's pleasure peninsula naturally suggests asian climates.
>>84481297
Right now I'm envisioning a race that's kind of spider-like, with multiple limbs able to spray/fill sealant foam into holes in the canal walls. I am absolutely riffing off the idea of the Dutch sticking fingers into dikes to stop floods.
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>>84477409
Magic weapons in myth and legend have been around for millenia. But all those weapons are "magic" insofar as they have a specific purpose, or were wielded by a specific hero, or otherwise had some context-dependent reason for having special powers.
D&D was the first to frame magic swords/weapons as just things you can find; there being a number extant in the world created by various entities for various purposes, and anyone (who can wield a sword) can just pick one up and be able to use its powers.

Its very similar to OD&D's treatment of humanoids like kobolds and goblins—following in the footsteps of Tolkien, D&D took these general terms to describe spirits and folkloric entities and turned them into discrete creatures with their own ecologies and temperaments.
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>>84481791
What do you like to make the most? What do you feel like there ought to be more of?
I'm all for more magic items, spells, and monsters, but you might be total dogshit at making those. I don't really care about rule expansions, but you might be really good at writing them. I can tell you what I'm interested in, but what I want the most is to read something well-made that presents ideas or concepts I wouldn't have thought of myself.
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>>84482007
Would check
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>>84482029
>Right now I'm envisioning a race that's kind of spider-like, with multiple limbs able to spray/fill sealant foam into holes in the canal walls
The image of android spider-things popped into my head reading that. Sleek unnatural things yet not mechanical.
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I'm trying to design my first hexcrawl and hitting a serious mental roadblock as far as scale and layout go. I'm going for a Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath vibe; not full-on gonzo, but leaning towards the exotic (ancient alabaster cities deep in the jungle, lanthanide wastelands, etc) over the mundane (ie, no Duchy of Shitsburg). The PCs find their way into the Dreamlands through a portal that connects a massive fig tree in their home city to its counterpart (the Ancient Fig) in the Dreamlands. I have some landmarks/dungeons for the enchanted forest that surrounds the Ancient Fig (pic related), and some ideas for larger regions that lie farther afield (the Phosphorous Swamps to the west, the Fungal Blight to the north, the Silverpeak Crags to the east, and the Lanthanide Wastes to the south), but I'm really struggling to connect the small-scale stuff to the large-scale stuff.

Anyone else run into issues like this when hexmapping? Any tips on how to break through the brain problems? In particular, any suggestions on how to think about the scale of the world?
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Dungeons & Dragons sure is a fine game! I recently gone into one of these campaigns, and it's surprising just how engrossing it is, despite it's (supposed) simplicity compared to the later versions!
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What are some good dungeons for 3 hour one shots? Please don't just blanket recommend 'one page dungeons'.

>>84483452
Should probably be a pointcrawl. In the Dreamlands scale doesn't matter, just the intention of traveling somewhere.
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>>84483547
The less the game gets in the way, the more complexity and creativity flourish in the actual roleplay.
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>>84483452

Take a look at the Dreamlands module from Call of Cthulhu, they breakdown a ton of locations from HPL's work. It might help string some hex stuff together.

I'm running a bastardized DCC shitbrew in the dreamlands for my friends and have been pulling some inspiration out of the CoC module

captcha: SNASA
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>>84483623
>What are some good dungeons for 3 hour one shots?
Honestly? There aren't any. You can't run through a dungeon in three hours and have it be a solid, well-rounded D&D experience.
I've searched and searched, experimented with over a dozen modules, and discussed this exact questions with many people online. My conclusion is that there is no way to have a full dungeon be doable in the span of a single session. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that the means to run such a session do not exist yet, at least not within the mainstream.
You're best bet is to either construct a brief semi-linear location-based adventure: two keyed encounters, two or three NPCs representative of different factions, a handful of traps and obstacles, and a mcguffin. Or, instead of looking for a 3-hour dungeon, adjust your expectations and look for a 3-session dungeon instead.
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>>84483452
Just start with the large-scale stuff. You probably feel like you don't want to put all the large (physically and conceptually) stuff on the map first because you need more small stuff to "justify" the large stuff and fill in the connective tissue between areas.
Fight that urge. Start with your best ideas first. Get everything you're thinking of down on paper. The connective tissue will come later.
If you need help specifically on fleshing out a big idea, use the classic GFC method of writing down everything that comes to your mind regarding that big idea, then taking a brief break, then next to each concept writing down the first thing that comes to mind when you reread that concept. This gives you a list-style "moodboard" to bounce off of, which is significantly easier than just trying to nail the whole area in one pass-through
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>>84483452
basic pencil practice lesson
draw two parallel lines. Shade in between them, starting on one side as lightly as you can and reaching maximum darkness by the end.
Another one is to draw a bunch of small squares (maybe 1 inch per side), and shade each of them evenly with a different amount of pressure. One very dark, another quite soft, ect. Keeping the shading perfectly even across the full square is the goal for these.

This has nothing to do with your post but developing a bit of pressure control gan help with line weight and make your pencil-drawn maps look a lot more professional.

As for your roadblock question. Practising a new skill can be meditative and help you clear past that, but also to break through just brute force it.
Slap a sheet of paper down and write literally every idea that comes to mine. EVERY IDEA, no thinking just machine gun a bunch of garbage out. In terms of this, you would be brainstorming concepts for said link, but literally any idea at all in any context for anything just write it down, Eventually you'll punch through whatever block you had, and figure something out.
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>>84483623
Funny enough, I'd originally thought of doing it as a pointcrawl, but couldn't figure how to handle the PCs going off the "paths" between the points. Are there any good worked examples of pointcrawls you think would be good to look at?

>>84483914
thx, will check out!

>>84484053
>>84484240
I like these approaches to brainstorming -- it's something I've always struggled to pull off, but this'll be a good way to practice. And thanks for the pencil drawing tips!
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my buddy wants to play a mini campaign this weekend, one D&D adventure culminating in a 15-25 character combat which would then lead into a couple larger linked combat scenarios. (Winning side in round one starts with the maguffin in round two.) I read Delta's Book of War and it seems like it's designed for battles with 200+ characters per side, and with 10 characters = 1 figure smaller battles are touchy.

What D&D compatible system is best for medium sized combats involving 30-150 participants? Hit me with published rules, blog posts, your house rules, or your extemporaneous thoughts right now thanks.
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>>84485477
Rules cyclopedia has fairly accommodating mass combat rules, iirc.
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>>84465003
Personally, I handwave that as part of the setting. Places left long abandoned often become inhabited by evil spirits, who twist the layout of the place into a maze, make it inhospitable to would-be looters, and conjure up (or perhaps coalesce into) monsters. But they also unearth long lost treasures to lure in said looters, probably to watch them die for entertainment.
And then more mundane inhabitants of dungeons, like goblins or bandits, tend to set their own traps and/or find ways to bypass or use the 'naturally occurring' traps to their advantage.
>>84483623
I used a troll lair with about 6 or 8 rooms (can't remember now) and no monsters other than the troll and a venomous snake as an introductory adventure and it took my group a little over 4 hours to clear it out completely, even though they got lucky and pinned the troll in a crevice and burned it to death early on.
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>>84463287
[OC]
Your catgirl class, sir.
For OSE Advanced.
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>>84486756
Emmy’s a dipshit and the troika crowd are a bunch of pearl-clutching ninnies. Leave that feculent stew in the outhouse that is twitter, where it belongs.
>>
>read 70s sci-fi and fantasy
>like it
>try to read The Floating Gods/In Virconium
>hate it, can't even get halfway through it
>everyone and their dog seems to love it and claim it's a masterpiece
I don't get it
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>>84487130
ah fuck I forgot the skills chance
just assume as thief
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I'm working on Gygax 75 atm.
I love the Elric style dying earth and I love Barsoom, decided to make a world that is explicitly on Mars detailing a mythical world of magic to adventure in.
I also love my weeb-stuff like Berserk, Wolfsmund, Tsutomu Nihei and Vampire Hunter D, along with dark fantasy like Necroscope and Kult and so decided it'd be cool having Cenobite-Tzimisce as the evil guys and have a dark tone mixed with the lighter sci-fantasy pulp to match the OSR lethality.
I have a concern I'll veer too much to Not!Dark Sun (I actually like the idea that Mars is more of a cold icy world than Mad Max desert btw) though.
I was just wondering atm what anons here think of what I got so far?

I am considering mythology and Order vs Chaos and links to Gnosticism (I find the idea of the Demiurge pretty cool), though I'll start pondering how that will all work tomorrow.
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>>84487681
Forgot to mention, will run this world using B/X so it'll have Elves, Dwarves and Halflings with Humans.
Keeping their origins all vague as it doesn't really matter though thematically I like elves as the magic race, dwarves as the tech race and halflings are the nature 'fae' race (stealthy in wilderness, good at archery, fairly insular if good-natured).
Pondering on veering them to Law, Neutral and Chaos due to these themes.
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>>84474812
Is this in OSE? I don't see it anywhere like that.
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>>84463275
Magic sword
Blade is a metallic silver ish pink colour
+3 vs most living fresh blooded creatures
-2 vs creatures that taste bad ie undead vermin constructs etc

The tell this weapon is chaotic aligned other than alignment detection magic is that the character can taste the blood of opponents cut by the sword which mostly tastes salty and metallic
Over prolonged use the sword corrupts the character and they eventually develop a voracious craving for rare meat and cooked blood possibly even for humanoids if the sword was used against them
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>>84476111
Cause when you have a bucket full of crabs they start trying to tear each others limbs off when they get bored.
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what do you guys like about OSR that's different than 3,4, and 5e ?
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I also started a Gygax 75 thing after that one Anon mentioned it

>>84488268
The OS parts
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>>84482007
I hope you like web design and being obscure. But on the other hand blogs are overrated and harder to use as a reference than a well designed website.
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>>84488268
Character creation doesn't take up half a session.
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>>84487924
Maybe it's in RC?
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>>84488268
The system itself doesn’t make me want to kill anyone at the table.
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>>84488268
>dungeoncrawling is mechanically supported, tense, and fun
>combat doesn't take half an hour or more every time
>the majority of the game takes place at the table, rather than in character creation
>rules lawyering is nearly nonexistent
>writing material is simpler, monster statblocks can be reduced to a single line
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>>84488268
No character builds and faster character generation.
Dungeon turns and time keeping
Group initiative and battle sequence
Coin weight encumbrance
XP for treasure
1 line monster stats
Smaller modifiers
Less HP bloat
>captcha; 2RPGK
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>>84488984
>>84489064
good answers, really gets me thinking
thanks!
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The OD&D spells are crazy
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Reading a 2E adventure be like "here's 25 scenes that happen in this order and all of the text for all of the conversations between all of the NPCs while the players watch"
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>>84483938
This is where I start doing 5 room Dungeons with a trick or gimmick at the end. You can fill that 3 hours real easy without worrying too much about going over and it doesn't have to be simply linear.

Room 0 - explain the gimmick
Or at least the layout. Is this capture the flag, a straight line combat or trap gauntlet, a circle with a hidden room in the middle, power the beacons etc. Lay out the rooms but not the corridors roughly. Is it a line , a cross, a fork/y etc.

Rooms 1 thru 5, follow the layout, put in some flavourful, probably want about 3 of these rooms to have monsters, one with obvious treasure and one with hidden treasure.

Room 6 - aka the gimmick
Give the pcs a chance to solve the gimmick. What does the pattern puzzle solve, what do the switches activate, what was the trap protecting. If short of time, just give the reward otherwise let the pcs gloat and try to maximize their loot/understanding. When I doubt make it clear that this whole thing was actually room 0 to a proper dungeon if the pcs were interested.
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>>84488268
Rules are fast, sensensical and aimed at evoking genre instead of dnd as genre. Played lots of 3 and 4. 3 strikes me as overcooked and too much work and 4 is tainted by its launch and to start with bad Nathan.

5 is ruined by freakshit and dnd as genre.
>>
Anons talking about working on their own Gygax 75 projects makes me want to revisit my own abandoned Gygax 75 setting. It was set on a terraformed Mars in the far future, and my autism kept trying to get accurate coastlines for the hexmap instead of just getting it close enough and calling it a day.
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>>84490388
The fact that we never got a good Dark Sun adventure is still the greatest tragedy of this period.
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>>84487681
In terms of chaos how will you handle cosmic red pill?
where a person realises that all things even reality and the unfathomable what came before are made from chaos and are made of chaos
And everything even LAW itself weaves chaos through its very structure
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>>84490601
>here's my osr™ 5 room dungeon!
:(
>>84483938
This anon is correct. There is strong marketing push to make gameplay into easily digestible soundbites for fast paced lifestyles of rapid consumerism or some shit, but osr play is not well suited to a 3 hour 1 shot. Anything posing as such will be a mutilated husk of osr.
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>>84492059
>5 room dungeon
It's a lair. Judges Guild had the Book of Ruins, and a couple other products back in the day.

Is it the best showcase if dungeon exploration play? No. My personal preference is have them be supplemental to a big dungeon/hub town area. Or as an encounter on the encounter table that is meatier than a band of demihumans or a singular monster.

They can also be used as an alternate entrance to your fully fleshed out dungeon. It's just a tool in the tool box.
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>>84492223
>Is it the best showcase if dungeon exploration play? No.
This. Say that part first. You omitted that part entirely in your initial response. Lairs are not good introductions to osr play.
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>>84492059
> osr play is not well suited to a 3 hour 1 shot

Why not? Explain this.
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>>84492314
>you omitted [...]
Not that anon. I just wanted to point out that "5 room dungeons" is a misnomer, and that what they were actually describing is a lair.
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>>84492414
NTA but probably because to maintain the tension of being in a dungeon the players should try to be out by the end of the session.
In three hours my players barely scratch the 4th room of my 26-rooms cave complex. So in 3-hour increments, they're not really going to go anywhere.
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>>84492414
The gameplay loop of balancing risk and reward over time to extract gp-for-xp, resource management of light/spells/hp and factions/reaction rolls requires a larger dungeon. If the dungeon is too small all of these are moot.
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>>84487213
You have to warm up to In Viriconium.
Read the Pastel City and Storm of Wings (in that order) first.
Also keep in mind that the Viriconium stories are very experimental explorations in tone and mood, so they are by their nature, not for everyone.
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>>84487924
OD&D. Monsters and Treasure. From the Little Brown Books. Pre-B/X and AD&D
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>>84489657
The fact that Fireball lasts a turn always made me think that it created a 10-minute sustained explosion, which was an absolutely wild concept to me. I've heard later that the one-turn thing could be in reference to the pre-detonated fireball, so I'm not sure which interpretation is the intended one, but still.
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>>84492940
I wonder if it's the origin of delayed-blast fireball.

>>84492414
These anons have the right of it: >>84492644, >>84492841

Dungeons require time to explore, in-game and out. It's one of the reasons they're so compelling as a major part of the game. You can get a lot of mileage out of a decent size dungeon, and because there is an impetus to leave (and bring treasure back, re-equip, heal) and return to continue exploration means that you have a ready reason to upset the default state of the dungeon based on when and how long players are gone for. Factions, in particular make this a deeper experience.

A lair might have factions, but it would be two ogres mad at each other or something (because there really isn't enough room for more than that without getting silly), and it's not quite the same as helping the local kobolds wipe out the goblins that are stealing their eggs.
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>>84485477
This is a pretty abstracted system that probably makes more sense to use closer to the 150 combatant range, but I think it seems neat. Never tried it in practice though, so can't speak to how well it works.
https://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.com/2012/08/advanced-fighting-fantasy-and-d-quick.html
>>
Say I wanted to run Palace of the Vampire Queen in B/X. How many players would be adequate for it?
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Here's an update to the pleasure peninsula. The idea is that the place has been conquered/abandoned several times. When the Emperor of the Hornet throne showed up he killed the original inhabitants. The hardcore ones survived and gathered around their fertility/fecundity shrines in the deep jungle. The Hornet Emperor built pleasure palaces and cities which are now decaying after the fall of the empire. The Men of Leng have long held the plateau to the northeast, and have agents through the peninsula. The shitty grassland to the east coincidentally surrounds several burial mounds and standing stones that seem even older than the ruins of the Hornet Empire. Since the empire fell, at least seven different groups of humanoids have arrived to build fortresses (west coast) or live as nomadic pastoralists (central valleys). Slimy, eel-like things have infiltrated the canals from the depths of the sea, and wage a shadow war against the canal keepers, seeking to sink the entire peninsula into a mire better suited to their amphibious nature. A wizard built a town in the mountain range. Several flying beasts lair in the peninsula to prey on the humanoid settlements. And whatever civilization the PCs are from has set up an outpost in the northwest. How does this sound as a place to get rich quick and die trying?
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>>84492940
>a 10-minute sustained explosion, which was an absolutely wild concept to me
The World Set Free by H.G. Wells also has continuously exploding bombs.
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>>84494149
>continuously exploding bombs
I like this concept. It's like a miniature sun that keeps shplodin'
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>>84494477
>>84492940
It might just be like a sustained firestorm
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haven't named everything use if you want
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>>84494132
What's the scale?
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>>84495005
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>>84495014
Six mile hexes
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>>84495005

>>84495005
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>>84495050
this is what it's all about
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>>84495050
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>>84495067

not sure some kind of temple guard by a Gaint Roc
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>>84494132
Looks cool, but I can't help but think it's just a little weird that the rivers are all exactly on the hex lines.
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>>84495117
A lot of them are artificial canals. As for running on hex edges, that's just my personal preference.
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>>84494132
As much as I like this map, specially the shape of the peninsula, the rivers are all kind of fucked.
Rivers don't separate (with a few exceptions like deltas) but they converge to form larger rivers. All of the areas where a river separates and then a branch flows into another river or in the ocean make no sense at all, except by magic.
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>>84495230
>>84495152
ah, canals. It makes more sense I guess.
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>>84495050
big hydra
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>>84494132
I like the idea of a pleasure/vacation realm gone to seed. Especially if the natives and wildlife have gone feral. Reminds me of southeast Asia. I'd add some dinosaurs and a big lake somewhere, but that's just personal preference.
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>>84495950
>gone to seed
you mean gone to sneed?
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>>84495773
4U
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>>84487681
>Elric on mars
>Tones of dark fantasy animu
>Cold wasteland slow-apocalypse
That all sounds awesome. Definitely up my alley, at the very least.
None of what you said was giving me Dark Sun vibes, so you probably don't have that to worry about. Feels like some sort of Lovecraft cosmic-horror element could fit well with the setting, but I could understand if you don't want to go in that direction.
You say you want to contrast the darker elements of the setting with more fun pulpy science-fantasy—what exactly do you have in mind for that sort of thing? I could imagine maybe some Flash Gordon-style Sword & Planet escapades (re: epic, large-scale adventures) could complement the tone and prevent your game from descending into grimderp. Less "we have to stop this vampire cenobite from raping the townsfolk('s children)" and more "let's hijack the orbital fortress and crash it into Lord Necron's war-barge"
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>>84495050
>24 mile wide hydra
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>>84496474
It's not too far out of the realm of possibility for one hydra to control a 24-mile territory
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>>84496474

A 24 mile wide hydra in my fantasy setting that's just really wild
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>>84496652
i wasn't implying it was implausible, just that it was of note. a terrifying idea!
>>
Rolled 10 (1d10)

>>84463287
>>
Rolled 4, 10 = 14 (2d10)

>>84463287
>>84496898
>>
>>84494132
earlier you got a comment that it was a small area compared to mounted travel speeds and I agree with that anon. I think it's extra important for your concept because those canals beg to be traversed. If you keep it this size come up with reasons that travel must be frequent. The rest of it has all the framework you need for a good campaign: a collapsed empire leaving lost riches and a power vacuum, a weird but not completely retarded map, and a creative theme to give you a direction while you fill the rest of it in.

>>84495950
based
>>
Rolled 4 (1d10)

>>84463287
>>84496916
1 more d10 roll to combine with my result of 4.
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Rolled 4 (1d10)

>>84463287
>>84496942
Lmao
>>
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not completed go wild
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>>84463287
>>84496965
C'MON BROTHER
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Rolled 10 (1d10)

>>84463287
>>84496984
>forgot to roll
>watch me get a 10 or 4... again
>>
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Rolled 8, 6 = 14 (2d10)

>>84463287
>>84497001
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>>84496968
Did you design those coats of arms yourself? They look terrific
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>>84496968

i used online coat of arms maker
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>>84493883
You can run it with solo rules. You mean how many characters?
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I want to run a Space Hulk game without using Space Hulk. At first blush, some OSR games seems like it has the right kind of structure. Am I totally wrong and am making a bad decision here?
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>>84497724
Not entirely wrong but honestly I'd look at some Necromunda/2e hybrid instead
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>>84490635
>and to start with bad Nathan
do what?
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>>84497043
holy kek
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>>84497724
Playing as Space Marines seems an ill-fit for OSR type play but if you're rando rogue trader crewmembers sent into a space hulk looking for treasure it would work pretty great I think.
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>>84497724
Use spelljammer as your base for game and work from there.
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Has anybody here tried out Vagabonds of Dyfed? How has it worked out for you?
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>>84497724
Check out WARBAND! by +1sword games. It's likely the closest thing you're looking for.
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>>84497724
Use Stars Without Number.
Space Marines = HD5, Atk +7, Dmg +2 or +3, ML 11+, Save 10+
Terminator Armor = Titan Powered Armor
Storm Bolters = Mag Rifles (in one hand)
Thunder Hammers = Large Advanced Melee weapon +1 (in one hand)
Power Claws = Dual-wielded Medium Advances Weapons +1

Gene Stealers = As Greater Lone Predator or Terrifying Apex Predator under the Beasts section. Depends on how good you want them to be at shredding termie armor.

I've given this some thought.
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>>84489657
>>84492940

That's hilarious. So many of the spells have no duration and that's just brutal. Massmorph is my favorite, disguise 100 men or man like creatures as a forest or orchard. They may be moved through and not detected as anything other than trees and is negated by the casters command or Dispel Magic. Well what if it's used offensively? What if the caster dies? The existential horror of being turned into trees and left for decades is wild. Not to mention the fuckin adventure hook or faction goal "We seek an orchard of apple trees to dispell and lead the ancient army of Glarand."

Growth of Plants is another that I love. 4th level spell, turn 30 square inches (300 yards square, 3 football fields on all sides) of brush or woods into brambles, vines, and briars as to make it nearly impassible, and lasts as long as the caster desires. Every wizard tower should be surrounded with a thick defensive barrier like such! Infact, re-reading the spell the caster can cause it to be any shape they wish...
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>>84498154
It's a PTBA storygame and thus about as OSR as Dungeon World or the instructions to my George Foreman grill, which is to say, not at all. So probably not.
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>>84498580

[OC]
Wilderness Feature: Hedge Orb

Floating in this 300 yard clearing of low brush is a gently humming, solid brass orb, 8 feet off the ground and 5 feet wide. It shows damage and dents, even char marks its underside. The humming can be heard from 2 miles away as a low rumble. Investigating the bushes reveals they have a black rotting on the tops of all the plants, evenly 2 feet off the ground.

If attacked, the orb will cast the spell "Growth of Plants" located on itself. This will create a maze around the orb and those who attacked it to the edge of the clearing. Referees should make a maze with a 30x30 area containing the orb and all creatures near in the middle on a map the size of 900x900 feet. The walls of the brambles are 10' high. It takes 1-6 Turns to hack through a 10x10 area. Climbing the brambles causes 1d3 damage every turn the party is involved with them. After three days the brambles will wilt then rot and after four days no signs of the brambles will be left. The orb may be moved gently to another location, where it will rot any plant life over 2 feet tall after four days but will refuse to be closer than 8 feet to the ground.
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>>84498657
>Deep Lore: The orb is a failed experiment by a wizard to teleport himself to the "plane of wild grasses" in order to read his books and study in a perpetual spring day meadow the rest of his days.

As no such plane exists the wizard in actuality simultaneously shrunk himself and all his possessions (including tower) down to a scale of 10 feet to 1 inch, summoned an earth elemental, encased himself inside the bronze orb, and cast continual light inside the orb. The bronze orb has a 2 foot hollow core inside, where the elemental constitutes the ground that the wizard tower stands upon. The elemental is drawing energy from nearby plants causing the rotting of near by bush over 2 feet tall and, being content with this life, grows a micro sized meadow inside the orb to console the wizard who was distraught when he arrived in a plane with no grasslands. Not being aware of his blunder, the tiny wizard now lives peacefully in a terrarium of his own design.
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>>84497432
I have a feeling these tornadoes aren't the natural kind. Do they change position, or is the prosperous kingdom, in the center, safe? There are many good ideas radiating from this simple depiction. A spellcaster with weather sensing would be invaluable for navigating parties to the vortex-obscured ruins. I'd expect whispered rumors that somewhere within the ancient structures there'd be a way to quiet the storms. One addendum: A hex where two armies of invisible stalkers wage a futile war, never satisfying the requirements of the long-dead magicians who conjured them.

Thanks, this was fun!
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>>84498249
Yeah sorry bro, but nothing comes up on google for that despite a couple attempts at keyword optimization. Get better SEO.
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>>84491622
Fair question - my main answer I'm considering strongly atm is that the 3 Gods (Law, Neutral, Chaos) are actually just faces of a singular Divinity.
The One as Demiurge (Law) weaves form from the Source/Nous (Chaos) and then Satanil (Neutral) as Balance returns these forms to chaos when their fate has been fulfilled.
Why yes, I do like the Triat from WtA with my Gnosticism!

>>84496427
Thanks, anon!
Yeah I do love my Lovecraft, though I think the cosmic element is filled with the 3 Gods as I have them atm, who could easily be eldritch abominations as they are more universal concepts in nature than Zeus-like planebros watching from mountaintop types.
On the last part of your post, I was thinking smaller scale than that, more like the ol' 30s Flash Gordon serial for sure (kitsch & fun), just a band of dudes getting one over the local Not!Ming the Merciless. I think alluding to things or not saying this or that leaves it open to not go full grimderp.
What I really wanted to have always is dungeons that are organic in nature (leaning in this for Chaos - I love body horror so Vampire-Lords having these 'Flesh-Vaults' seem fitting for me), though also I was considering the Law side of things would have a sort of rusted worn down ubertech feel, everything is metal instead of caves in those, though also stasis is falling to entropy and things are rusted and corroded (fits with darkness and doors working against the PCs) - kinda Tetsuo:the Iron Man style, I dig 70s/80s/90s body horror flicks, since Cronenberg's Shivers (1975), for me Species was a last hurrah for that era, though as recent as Upgrade, along with Colour from Outer Space some cool stuff does make me take notice still.
I also started reading Aposimz today and I've always enjoyed Nihei's work. The 'Frames' in that, looking like Masked Rider bug-armour looks cool for Plate Armour (whilst chainmail I'd have as like a Venom-styled worn Symbiote).
Though mainly now I'm spit-balling on things I find cool.
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>>84498934
swordplusone.com/harback_warband.pdf
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>>84497432
>>84496968
>>84495050
>>84495067


STEAL STEAL STEAL take my maps use them
and repost result i like making maps but dont really have lore or a world
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>>84497724
Warband! Stars Without Number and maybe Stay Frosty are probably not bad to start.
Hardest part is going to be xp for treasure, factions and reaction rolls, none of which genestealers or marines are going to be up to. If its rogues, renegades and such exploring hulks with a variety of creatures on board it might work better than straight up purge and burn.
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>>84498657
>>84498673
Nice.
Well done.
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>>84497108
>online coat of arms maker
Link that shit ASAP
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>>84465003
>For example, if the dungeon is a ruined castle, I cannot for the life of me put in complex death traps because I can't see a reason for the original inhabitants to ever build them.
I mean, you obviously don't put it in a place regularly frequented by people. Maybe there's a secret wizard's laboratory hidden in a restricted part of the castle (behind a secret door that leads from his chambers?). It is trapped against any who would dare to enter.

Or there's a secret passage underneath the castle that connects to a vast cave system. This provides a method of escape, should the castle fall, and a way to secretly slip in and out of the castle (as there are multiple openings to the surface), but of course, there is always a danger of somebody or something trying to enter the castle. So in addition a reinforced gate, the passage is protected by a reusable trap of some kind. You can avoid it by simply walking the correct path (something obviously memorized by those who had the passage constructed), but step in the wrong place and the bad stuff happens.
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>>84463275
>What's your favourite OSR game that isn't traditional low fantasy?
Gamma World, if it's close enough for the purposes of our conversation. If not, maybe something like Mutant Future could stand in for it, though I've never personally played it. If that doesn't work either, I think I've only ever played the normal fantasy OSR stuff (unless going through Barrier Peaks qualifies as something different). I'd contest the idea that OSR is low fantasy though, just because characters start off relatively low in power. Just looking through the array of magic-user spells (which are something they can cast daily, without twisted rituals and such), tends to disprove this, as does the bestiary of fantastical monsters.
>>
>I search the room!
>OK, how?
>Uh, I'm not sure.
>Well, maybe you would like to...
What are some of the typical ways to search a room?
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>>84503122
What's the room look, sound, feel, smell, etc. like?
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>>84503162
This once-proud room is made of precisely-cut stonework set deep into the earth centuries ago. It is now covered in refuse, scrawled graffiti and the inane detritus over which its new inhabitants squabble. You hear nothing but the occasional rustling of vermin and what sounds like the snorting and grunting of far-off orcs echoing through the adjoining hall. The air is stale and smells of mildew.

In other words, it's the most broadly-applicable dungeon environment possible.
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>>84503509
>far-off orc sounds
We search carefully and quietly. Checking the stonework and detritus for traps like pressure plates or things hidden in refuse. Ideally with a long stick, pole or spear. We also look up, people forget to look up.
If there's time, securing the doors we listen for sounds while someone checks the graf for interesting clues or details.

In otherwords searching and exploration is a dialogue that requires context provided by the DM for the players to extrapolate from.
>dm describes dungeon vibe
>players describe approach, speed, marching order, etc.
>dm describes specific details
>players engage with or ignore details
>repeat
I have heard of groups making a standard or list of sorts that they apply to all rooms but haven't seen or tired that.
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>>84503122
Welp, first thing that comes to mind is asking "What's in the room". I can't very well "Search" it if all I'm seeing in my head is the inside of a featureless 3D cube, right?
If there's a book folder I'll flip through the books, if there's a bed I look under it, etc
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>>84464453
Working on an out-there type setting where humanity had to escape genocide by using spelljammers and landed on another planet with Elves and Dwarves and all the fantasy stuff.
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>>84503122
>What are you looking for?
>Here is a reminder of what's in here at first glance.
>Want to do it quickly, thoroughly or cautiously? (Being thorough will help you find hidden stuff and being cautious will help you avoid traps, but both take 1 exploration turn.)
>You could start with the northmost side and continue clockwise, for example.
Something like that. It's very dependent on the contents obviously. You don't search a library and a throne room the same way, and the DM wouldn't ask the same clarifying questions.
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>>84498657
>>84498673
Beautiful anon.
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>>84498915
>tornadoes
just imagine that they're upside-down Gnome hats and each one represents a village of Gnomish Liberation Front sympathizers hiding terrorists. Like a SE Asian jungle full of Viet Cong.
That's much more interesting.
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>>84504266
>Being thorough will help you find hidden stuff and being cautious will help you avoid traps, but both take 1 exploration turn.
Neat. I do this but don't break them into 2 categories. Do you find your players will make decisions about only using 1 or the other?
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>>84496928
I'm not sure what comment you're talking about. Somebody said it's roughly a seven day trek east-west and ten days north-south. What's the worry about the size being too small? Other than wilderness expeditions not being as long to get to remote dungeons I'm not seeing the problem?
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>>84507431
Different Anon here but as I pointed out upthread >>84477598 your "peninsula" is roughly the size of the entirety of Scotland so I disagree strongly with the other anon that the map is too small. It's possible that he doesn't realize that end-to-end traversal is very far from the same as ongoing exploration, or maybe he didn't notice all the jungle or how slow it is to traverse.
>>
Are there any good OSR actual plays that show what people are actually doing at the table? I'm particularly interested in seeing how players map the dungeon.
>>
>>84507431
>>84508003
I phrased things poorly and too critically. What I meant is that it's a great map with a cool concept, but if it has a weakness it could be the size. The risk of the map being too small is that there is no cost to travel and all places become the same/adjacent (it becomes the town game with a funny map). I'm not saying you are there yet - I am describing the degenerate case. I also didn't mean to change it, but to consider how you'll want to design adventures with this factor in mind. Accessibility of flying mounts and control of the canal system both deserve special attention.

The second anon made a very good point that bears on this design: that the exploration is as or more important than the travel. Added depth is as helpful as breadth and takes pressure off of overland travel. Other ways to focus on this factor in a positive way:
conflicting factions control the canals
multiple events in different places at the same time
enticing them to move something large (or another exceedingly cumbersome expedition)
make a homebase crucial to downtime activities to necessitate frequent travel
increase the hex encounter frequency slightly

this list is kind of weak so it feels like my concern was overstated. share a play report some time and let us know how fun this is.
>>
>>84509047
That's a good question.
The APs I've seen tend to fall into two categories: that is, the visual ones - the audio or transcript ones don't "show" anything. But, of visual ones:
1 - they use battle maps, so the players - if they map - you can't see it (e.g. Mr Hobbs' Gamerhood)
Or
2 - they don't use battle maps, but they focus on roleplay and characters, so again - if the player is mapping, you don't see it. (e.g. Bandit's Keep)

I know mapping occurs on both examples given - I've seen them - but the format of the genre focuses on other aspects of intrigue. So in order to show player behavior properly, you'd need one where the players are around a kitchen table.

I've seen those - but I haven't watched any like that in *forever.* So a starting point, look for APs on YouTube where it's in person. I will think on it and see if I can remember some from my early days of AP critique.
>>
>>84507431
>>84508003
I'm the anon made the estimate for travel times and brought up mounts.

I think the size of the map is fine, I just wanted to prompt pleasure peninsula-anon on how horses/mounts will make the map smaller. Same goes for other methods of getting around, boats (either in the rivers/canals, or along the coast). It wasn't intended as criticism, merely an element I thought he should consider.

To pleasure peninsula-anon: Do any of your factions use boats? Getting a river boat/coastal craft could be a neat milestone for your players, as well as a modest headquarters when out in the field (and a gp sink!).

I think your map is neat, and when my own hex map is more fleshed out, I'll throw it up in some future thread.
>>
>>84472218
>Necropolis
>3e
Originally it was for Lejendary Adventure.
A S&W version was released by Frog God last Christmas and is in Bytee's archive.
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>>84510046
>self correction
Make that Dangerous Journeys, not LA. Turns out that's also in Bytee's archive.
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>>84503122
Think atf.
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>>84510087
Hard to blame anybody for being unable to tell Danjerous Journeys and Lejendary Adventure apart, tb h. I still to this day don't remember which one it was that TSR somehow managed to confiscate via the courts, even though that was a complete fucking travesty of justice.
>>
>Another tidbit is how typical military marches are 120
beats / paces per minute. A pace is 2.5 (2 1/2 feet)
hence the pace is 300 feet or 100 yards per minute.
Converting the commonly quoted walking pace of 3
miles per hour to feet per minute gives 3 x 5,280 =
15,840 feet / 60 minutes per hour = 264 feet per minute
or 88 yard per minute. No one walks at a specific
speed (most people vary) and the military march is
perhaps 3.5 miles per hour.
>In early D&D characters made 2 moves per turn for
240 feet per minute base movement.

Gygax confirmed for 2efag 15 years before it was even published
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>>84496652
>>84496474
[oc] The Hydrascape
The strongest swordsman in history was also the dumbest. His battle with the great mother hydra lasted one year and one day. He cut off head after head. Three days in the hydra was completely immobile. It now is a dense glacier of spiraling necks and gnashing heads. They say the heads at the center are wise and will grant knowledge to anyone who can make it through.
//todo: Dungeon with tangled hydra necks for walls.
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>>84511066
>In early D&D characters made 2 moves per turn
True, and interesting in that it leaves a "half-turn" available after one movement. Many effects from later d&d are defined as one turn, while OD&D defines down to even the quarter turn for ESP'ing.

>for 240 feet per minute base movement
Wrong, a turn is defined as 10 minutes per OD&D, making even the two-per-turn movement of an unencumbered character only 24 feet per minute.
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>>84487130
soul
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>>84511984
I always read it as 1 move and 1 action, a second move being a potential action.
In chainmail, the two movements are two half moves, meant to help determine any pass through fires. So I guess it could potentially be two full moves or two half moves, depending on if you want to use feet or yards as your distance?
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>>84510005
To be honest, I'm not worried about mounted move speed. The terrain of the peninsula is pretty terrible for straight line travel. If you want to stick to good flat land, you'll have to pass through a bunch of different factions territories, and they're not going to let you cart wagonloads of loot through untaxed. If you go straight line you'll have to get a caravan through deep jungle and over the canals, which 1: I'm envisioning as pretty big and 2: are filled with horrible deep sea goblin men who won't let you cross "their" canal. Those same deep sea goblin men would also seriously resist any PC efforts at building a floating base. It seems to me that getting any serious treasure (ie enough to go much beyond level 3) out of the peninsula is going to be an adventure in and of itself, beyond the dungeon delve that got it in the first place.
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>>84514822
Fair enough.
>>
I enjoy gold as xp but I'm looking for something more objectives-based without falling for MIlestone "whenever I feel like it" leveling. Are there any decent minimal experience systems out there that minimize the structure without eschewing it entirely?

I guess something like just ticking x amount of boxes is enough for me.
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>>84515320
xp for rooms explored
divide xp equierements by 100 for easier to write and read numbers
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i want my fave to be a crunchy osr any suggestion
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>>84515320
why not a mix of gold as xp and xp for defeating enemies?
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So I'm just now looking into Stars Without Numbers, and I gotta say, this is a interesting modifier table. How do you guys feel about it? With such a spread I don't feel like shit for not having a great roll with 3d6 and don't feel the need to do 4d6 and drop the lowest instead.
>>
New bestiary entry on the blog today: another insight into my home setting - the Waste Dragon!
https://clericswearringmail.blogspot.com/2022/05/waste-dragon.html
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>>84517074
Yeah it's fine. Another weird aspect of the stats is there are things that modify your modifier instead of your stat score. So, using WWN as an example because I know it better, you can be an elf with 14 dex and a +2 dex modifier.
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>>84517031
That is the normal TSR XP method.
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>>84517139
always appreciate the stuff you put out, very cool
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I don't know what the FUCK I'm doing but I'm making my first dungeon. The theme is gonna be debauchery, blood, and party games. The players are going to have to either avoid being drawn into dangerous party games or WIN the party games, and there'll be various special NPCs who are ensnared in the demonic party in different ways. Plenty of the NPCs will be dangerous and aggressive, although combat isn't required. I want the players to use the NPCs and maybe even try and get them in their debt for later, if they save them. It's all in a tower to keep each floor manageable because I'm so inexperienced.

Lore: the players have been snubbed from being invited to the annual "Bloodwine Ball" so they have to teach the host a lesson. The ball is being held at the top of a tower, and the guests grow more and more psychotic and try and force the players to participate in steadily more fucked up party games the higher the players go. If they drink the bloodwine the characters won't realise the party games are fucked up (hacking at a strung up guest turns into pinata, that sort of thing), although the players will know. At the top, corpses from all the guests are piled up into a fountain, beating like a heart. The princeling who's throwing the party is deep in debt with a blood clan from beyond the stars, and they're making her pay them back by giving them loads of bodies to turn into an abominable heart. The princeling will beg the players to save them. Idk what the players will do in that situation but I think any action would be valid, really. They could just ally with the blood clan and promise to deliver them corpses of their own if they want.

What do you think? I really have no idea how the fuck you make a dungeon.
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>>84518583
I tend to have a rough idea, get the dungeon on paper, key it with just the bare details then go back and fill in content with ideas that develop/use a few more generators.
This pdf will help.
Tricks, Empty Rooms and basic trap Design is a good read too.
All Dead Generations has a very in depth look at how dungeon design and procedures work if you're a reader. You should be
>>
stupid gay shit in dnd which makes no sense whatsoever, is stupid and gay, and exists in OSR because .
>experience
>currency
Thank you.
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>>84518583
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RP-6IIfKus
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>>84518583
I don't know, doesn't sound very OSR to me. But that's just my opinion.
I tend to just come up with a basic idea of what the dungeon is (i.e. is it a ruined castle, a cave system, a tomb of some kind?). Then I come up with rooms and monsters to fill the dungeon with, which I draw onto graph paper. I then key the map and add treasure.
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If Dwarves cannot be Magic Users and you need to be a high level Magic User to make magic items where do all the Dwarven magic items come from? Do they have enslaved MUs of other races (probably elves due to longevity) at their forges?
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>>84518915
I'd assume that (NPC) dwarves of high enough skill can create magical items through mundane means. Sort of like Tolkien's elves.
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>>84509047
I've never seen one that does mapping: that would actually be interesting. The only major old school one in general I can think of is Matt Finch's now dead Jordoba game.
>>
>>84518915
Seems like a classic "the rules are for the PCs" thing to me.
>>
>>84517139
Sweet, this thing is cool.
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>>84518957
Considering how many rules there are it feels weird that no one decided to just throw magic item creation into Dwarf package at later levels.
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>>84515726
FHW or ASSH.
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>>84518583
For a first dungeon, shouldn't you start with something more basic?
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>>84518915
>If Dwarves cannot be Magic Users and you need to be a high level Magic User to make magic items where do all the Dwarven magic items come from? Do they have enslaved MUs of other races (probably elves due to longevity) at their forges?
they can have clerics in your game that can make them, or you can rule that dwarf smiths can make magical items if they spend 100 years at the smithy. After that century they receive a blessing from their dwarf deity etc. These are not adventurers.
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>>84518583
Bro, this is a very neat concept but I don't think it will mesh at all with OSR style of play.
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>>84519147
Shiiiet, why not?
>>84519131
Doesn't work. I never get anything done if I try and start with something basic. It might be because I'm ADHD af but unless I'm working with some idea I think is cool I just don't make anything.
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>>84518915
>where do all the Dwarven magic items come from?
From a different age where the rules were different. They are not currently in production.
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>>84519165
Because.. Well, why WOULD it work? You start up a new game, you want characters to have some basic challenges, option to come back to town to regroup, etc. 'Dangerous party games' doesn't sound too survivable to level 1 characters, and I doubt they'll have much agency there
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>>84519165
Maybe you shouldn't make anything
You seem like a nervous wreck ill-disposed to creating
And doing retarded player/character separation of knowledge makes it seem like you don't want to play OSR
It's a game about stealing gold not fucked up social parties and moral choices

captcha: hhy88
>>
>>84519213
You think it's too dangerous? Huh. I was worried it'd be too easy. I do see your point about letting the players leave the dungeon to recuperate and come back again as well.
>>84519233
I took the idea of player/character separation of knowledge from an OSR blog. It was from some false hydra monster they'd created.
>>
>>84519233 might be a little too harsh, but I agree with him. I mean, when you're thinking OSR, you're thinking of exploration, dungeons, looting, with some outbursts of ultraviolence.
What you're describing sounds like something outta Vampire The Masquerade
>>
Someone make a decent new thread before the deleter janny decides to force another retarded TQ on us.
>>
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New thread: >>84519408
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>>84518583
>>84519165
NTA; I don't think there's enough here to make a dungeon out of. Moreover, this is less about exploration and more about not being "defeated" by mini-games and social encounters, which isn't OSR's strong suit. It isn't that mini-games can't be done, or that you can't run a bunch of social encounters, so much as you don't have enough mechanical support for them.

The motivation for the dungeon us weak. Why were the PCs snubbed, and why would they care if Chaos-aligned weirdos did so? Why would they feel the need to punish those who snubbed them? These are not low-to-mid-level OSR motives, they remind me more of domain rulers or vampires in VtM worrying over Status, than mercenary plunderers. I suggest changing this so that the PCs are hired by a snubbed party guest, who may pop up later in the adventure (and may not have been snubbed at all and has sent the PCs as a form of entertainment with "teeth").

I don't know how you're intending to do encounters, but I would consider breaking things up a bit and make the party guests Revelers and Objectors. Revelers drank the bloodwine and are unpredictable (so, encounters rolled will use the reaction rules). Objectors did not, are horrified, and wish to leave (but cannot for some reason). The PCs can rescue them, enlist them as allies, and pull from their ranks for replacement PCs. This provides a basic sketch of dungeon factions, which are important to OSR play. You could add a third faction - serving staff. Some want to leave, some do not, making them unpredictable encounters. They will attempt to prevent players from looting the tower. Weird beasts summoned from the depths beyond space and time could lurk throughout the tower, but because you want the tower to be relatively small, maybe make one static to a location, and another a possible wandering monster.
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>>84519452
Pt. 2
You mentioned the players could bargain with the entities that the princeling is indebted to. You could make the mini-games offer a random chance of recieving nothing, a boon of some kind (the colored pools in B1 come to mind), or a curse. There could also be effigies to those dark entities that PCs might be able to swear service to in return for bonuses (and an alignment switch to Chaotic, if not already). Physical manifestations of their pact could be suitably be-tentacled, incurring reaction penalties to non-Chaotic beings.

Importantly, PCs need to be able to leave the dungeon, so don't actually prevent them from leaving. You can have NPCs try to pursuade them to stay, though, and you can impose a time limit ("The Revel will last from the New Moon to New Moon").

There needs to be treasure to loot. Lots if it hidden. I hope some of this is helpful.
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>>84519334
That's honestly surprising to me. I was mostly inspired by OSR books like Yoon-Suin, Flower Liches of the Dragonboat Festival, Hotsprings Island, and Lorn Song of the Bachelor.
>>84519452
>>84519457
Oh, the party games aren't mini games. There definitely are a lot of social elements to the possible-combat encounters, but I got the impression that was what OSR was built around? Like not necessarily having to fight, but maybe turning factions against each other or stuff like that.
I really like your idea of revellers/objectors/staff factions. That provides a dimension I didn't realise I needed until you mentioned it. There will also be the blood clan as a faction.
I also like your idea of giving the party games more bite to them by having them give out effects. The party games would be aligned to the princeling and her staff because the bloodwine has her blood in it.

Btw, the players are cultists in service to a god. It's the god who got snubbed, not them. The god is indeed actually sending them there to fuck up the heart-summoning; I was gonna pull some fuckery where I pretended the god wanted them to do whatever it is they end up doing (like, if they hook up with the blood clan then "I am glad you have forged a bond between our houses"; if they destroy their heart then "a blow has been struck against our nemesis") and I was gonna pull further plothooks out based on that. The main point is I want the players to feel like their god is using them as pawns.
I might go with a totally different style of campaign tho where the players are mercenaries delving into an apocalyptic city, but the bloodwine ball would need some reflavouring in that case
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>>84519677
OSR certainly encourages non-combat encounters, but after determining whether or not the encounter is willing to talk, it's left up to common sense.

I don't think serving a god is out-of-bounds for OSR, but it places a different impetus to adventure. OSR places emphasis on exploration of spaces through the treasure=advancement mechanism. You can, however, offer up advancement through serving their god and completing tasks, but it will be more arbitrary and reliant and your whims, whereas gp for xp mostly depends on how willing the PCs are to poke around a dangerous location and suffer the wandering monster table (it is heavily dependent on your stocking of the dungeon, but you should be generous, though hide the lion's share so they have to work for it).

I'm pleased I could offer something of worth.
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>>84519797
Yeah, the treasure = advancement is a big part of why I was thinking about the apocalyptic city idea. There's also "treasure stolen for my god", but that doesn't quite give me the "pawn in service of a god" vibe.
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>>84519829
It's possible (and just occurred to me) that the treasure could have a requirement that 10% or 25% be sacrificed to the god for your cultist PCs to get xp. Thus, they serve their god, get advancement, but also get to keep a portion of the loot for themselves. The god sends them to the place he wants them to go, crestive plundering is encouraged, returned plunder becomes xp, and the PCs get to spend or save the portion the god lets them keep.

The only slight wrinkle is that replacement PCs should come from the cult's ranks, rather than just NPCs they meet in dungeons. Though, they can evangelize, I suppose.
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>>84518583
Maybe this can help: https://tenfootpole.org/ironspike/?p=7610
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>>84515726
Rules Cyclopedia
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>>84519271
>I took the idea of player/character separation of knowledge from an OSR blog
Separating player/character knowledge is fine in certain scenarios but might be an issue if you're less experienced with DMing, especially so if your players are new. Running scenarios where the players are expected to run their characters in a way that goes against the players' best interests is a careful balancing act that can get fucked up pretty easily. Might not be the best thing to rely on in your first dungeon.

I want to say, also, that while I think your concept is fine for OSR games (unlike the opinion of some other anons), social encounters can be really difficult to pull off in early play because most players don't really "know" their character yet. Additionally, they can be hard to DM if you've never done it before because playacting is really lame and boring unless you have a decent amount of experience. Perhaps reframe your concept so that it is less reliant on social encounters and more on avoiding or navigating situations with semi-violent NPCs with odd motives



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