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File: Magic Primer v3.3 (+0).png (2.04 MB, 1400x1659)
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Tutor edition!

>To make cards, download MSE for free from here:
http://magicseteditor.boards.net/
>OR
>Mobile users might have an easier time signing up here:
https://mtg.design/

>Stitch cards together with
http://old.photojoiner.net/

>Hi-Res MSE Templates
https://pastebin.com/2AFqrY68

>Mechanics doc (For the making of color pie appropriate cards)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaKCOzyqM48dFdKRXpxTDRJelRGWVZabFhUU0RMcEE

>Color Pie mechanics
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/mechanical-color-pie-2021-10-18

>Read this before you post cards for the first time, or as a refresher for returning cardmakers
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jn1J1Mj-EvxMxca8aSRBDj766rSN8oSQgLMOXs10BUM

>Design articles by Wizards
http://pastebin.com/Ly8pw7BR

>Primer: NWO and Redflagging
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/creativity/custom-card-creation/578926-primer-nwo-redflagging

>Q: Can there be a sixth color?
A: http://pastebin.com/kNAgwj7i

>Q: What's the difference between multicolor and hybrid?
A: http://pastebin.com/yBnGki1C

>Q: What is precedence?
A: http://pastebin.com/pGxMLwc7

>Q: How can I proxy my cards for testing?
A: https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM // https://mtgprint.cardtrader.com

>Art sources
http://www.artstation.com/
https://cgsociety.org/
http://fantasygallery.net/
http://grognard.booru.org/
http://fantasy-art-engine.tumblr.com/
https://www.deviantart.com/

>/ccg/ sets
http://pastebin.com/hsVAbnMj

Old thread:
>>84281767
>>
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Hows this for a sick burn
>>
>>84401660
Isn't there already an Un-card that does this?
>>
>>84401675
It'll basically either lose or win you the game on the spot. I could easily see it hitting 10 damage at only 4 or 5 cmc. But if it low-rolls, then you've just spend an entire turn giving your opponent free cards.
>>
Cardname
2
Artifact - Fortification
When CARDNAME enters play, attach it to a land you control.
Fortify 3
When the land CARDNAME fortifies produces mana, if it has no (mechanic) counters on it, (do a neat effect) and put a (mechanic) counter on that land.

Thoughts?
>>
>>84401660
Isn't this power-creeping pic rel? For that reason I'd make it have quadruple pips {3}{U}{U}{U}{U}.

Aside from that, I like the design, I'd say it looks silver-bordered, but WotC has already jumped the shark when it comes to black border.
>>
>>84402630
putting counters on lands is a yikes for me
>>
>>84403021
why
>>
gU lead checking in. I've transcribed every card I managed to save, and am in the process of finding all the art again. Will hopefully have something to put up this weekend.
>>
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>>84404218
Make a polnpc card
>>
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>>84404230
>>
>>84404218
Glad to see you again and also that you've managed to get things together. Did you manage to do any of those changes you mentioned wanting to do?
>>
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>>84404588
Neat. You could make Jund dragon-worshipping kobolds.
>>
>>84404588
>>84404670
A Kobold with Blitz would be an interesting twist on a cycling effect. Though I think Kobolds are usually defined by the fact that they're mostly 0/1 creatures. Might be hard to make that the core of a faction. They're also typically mono-red rather than Black or Green, though that's less of an issue given how few Kobold cards there actually are.

I could also see a case being made for Dinosaurs or Giants rather than Dragons for the big monsters of the faction. Though it does feel very natural to go with Jund as having that sort of hierarchy between big savage monsters and their minons
>>
>>84404767
>A Kobold with Blitz would be an interesting twist on a cycling effect. Though I think Kobolds are usually defined by the fact that they're mostly 0/1 creatures. Might be hard to make that the core of a faction. They're also typically mono-red rather than Black or Green, though that's less of an issue given how few Kobold cards there actually are.

Make the general rabble main red and 0/1s with singular effects, then the black influence can be shamans exploiting them for gain as sacrifice to their dragon lord, and green can focus on increasing their population, with perhaps a bit of mana added. Maybe a little undeath subtheme? Their whole culture could be a meat grinder meant to create value with the end goal of summoning The Big Dragon.
>>
>>84404767
>>84404783

>>84404767
>>84404783

not bad idea but this was already done Alara
i want something different
>>
>>84404218
Awesome! Glad to hear you're back. IIRC, your computer failed, right? Have you migrated everything you could save to a new computer?
>>
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>>84404783
Maybe, although it does feel a little awkward to have a faction where the main group is in only one of the three colors.
That said, I did like the idea of a Blitz Kobold enough to toss together a card.

>>84404842
Fair enough. It seems tricky, since a lot of the better-defined RG and BR creature types are usually one or the other.
Maybe you could do Spirits? It's more common to do that in WU, but Black gets plenty of ghosts, Green gets plenty of nature spirits, and Red is no stranger to it either.
Could be a sort of Valhalla situation where it's the spirits of the dead, or totem warriors who fight alongside spirit animals.
>>
>>84404930
jungle viking or some kind of Aztec/mayan hybrid
>>
>>84404930
Make red the rabble, green the matrons responsible for growth and nurturing, and black the conniving shamans, and mix from there.
>>
>>84404588
Why does BGU still not have a mechanic? Again, just use Emerge.
>>
>>84405178
>Emerge.

im not completely sold on emerge thinking about using delirium
>>
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I remade Mana Short from the LEA set
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>>84404507
I recall saying something about changes being easier since I don't have any bias towards these cards really anymore, but I don't think I actually came up with anything yet.

>>84404855
I'll do it now before I forget.
>>
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I did have it mentioned where the third rare slot (bottom left) was a bit similar to one of the rare vote cards in regards to card draw. When adjusting variants, I considered just simplifying it by removing the card draw and lowering the cost, though that made it seem less suitable as a rare.
From there I got the idea of lowering the new version (top right) to the uncommon slot, while moving the previous uncommon in that slot (top left) to a rare. That in turn I ended up adjusting into the bottom right rare, being an enchantment that untaps all of your creatures/vehicles to have them available to block with and basically gives you a consistent defense during your opponent's turn.

Not sure if any of this might be too little or too much, but I do think it helps to make all the cards involved more distinct.

>>84404218
>>84406562
Good to hear you're back at it. Might also be a decent idea to upload the files to the Box if you still have access to that.
>>
>>84405555
Checked. The art works I suppose. Not sure how you'd exactly represent that visually otherwise
>>
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here are rough drafts of the cards the wording is probably wrong and im missing somethings like the jeskai leaders race
>>
>>84407486
Assuming you're using MSE, you probably need to check your fonts.

In terms of general wording, the Jeskai legend should have
>Affinity for artifacts
listed first, as abilities that affect how a creature's casting go above static keywords.
If you're including ward on the same line as the other keywords, it can probably go without the reminder text. Similarly, only the first keyword should be capitalized. The order of keywords themselves I think should be
>First strike, haste, ward 1
The Temur legend should probably say
>Whenever you cast a spell for its evoke cost, ~ gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
for the second ability. The wording on the first ability isn't correct either, since a card cast for an Evoke cost isn't an Evoke spell, though I'm not sure on how to properly word that.
For the Naya legend, based on Venerated Loxodon, you're good to use 'convoked' for the wording there. So for instance
>~ gains haste if three or more creatures convoked it.
That effect is a little awkward, though technically functional.

Wording aside, some of the designs here feel off. The idea of having something big with a keyword soup works for Naya. The Jeskai card though feels on par with Monastery Mantis. Having two artifacts is not difficult at all for any sort of dedicated affinity deck, and from there you're trading off flying and vigilance for first strike and ward 1. Nothing here other than affinity is telling me this guy likes artifacts.
I'd also add that Human Elemental Shaman is a lot in terms of creature types. There are already some humanoid elementals in MtG, so there isn't a need to make them a human if you just want an Elemental Shaman. Averna the Chaos Bloom is an excellent example. If you were specifically trying to make them a Human Elemental to represent some sort of weird infusion of energy in a normal person, I think you could just make them an Elemental Human sufficiently represents the raw magical energy at play.
>>
>>84406761
Image layout is very confusing. Anyway, Coastal Defense seems like the big winner here, as it allows you to get even more use out of your Patrol cards.

...Though now that I think about it, I wonder if such an ability would've been better suited for the mG legend, because I know you've been having a hard time with it. Or whoever's been designing that card. I'm tired OK.

Wait, I have an idea for the mG legend. Granting Patrol to lands. Maybe require them to animate first. IDK.
>>
>>84403470
Because they are constantly twisting around, so putting things on them is just cumbersome.
>>
>>84409599
>Image layout is very confusing
Yeah, apologies for that, though I wasn't sure how to best get across that I was swapping the slots/rarities. The left side is the old version, with the right side being the new ones. There's two slots up for grabs, essentially.
I am glad to hear if the Enchantment version seems appealing as a rare though, since like you said it does play nicely with Patrol by letting you get even more uses out of each card each turn, at least in theory.

As for the mono-G legend, I did have pic related as the current version as a way to help out Patrol creatures more directly along with granting deathtouch as part of a recent suggestion I was considering.
Part of the reason I'm wary about granting patrol en-masse is largely memory issues. Having a bunch of tokens with patrol or giving it to all of your lands really complicates what a player needs to keep track of regarding what has been tapped once and what hasn't.
>>
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bump
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>>84409969
Legend seems fine and is well geared for both attacking and defending provided you've got a vehicle. Ideally with vigilance.

>>84406761
And now that I understand what's supposed to be going on here, I liked the old RM3, but these changes all seem fine.
>>
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>>84413813
>I liked the old RM3, but these changes all seem fine.
Yeah, although it did have some overlap with pic related of pumping up your board and then letting you draw cards based on that. Albeit in somewhat different directions.
I do think I prefer the idea of downshifting it into a simple version while letting the Enchantment do something a bit more distinct.
>Legend seems fine and is well geared for both attacking and defending provided you've got a vehicle. Ideally with vigilance.
That was part of my goal with it. I did give one of the lower rarity Vehicles vigilance specifically so it would work well with Patrol for blocking purposes.


>>84410739
Seems fine. Potentially more lifegain than something like Revitalize if you play it later in the game, although it's just lifegain, so it can only do so much.
>>
>>84410739
Based on what I saw in SNC limited, this is colourshifted Revitalize most of the time.
I like the flavour, to gain a lot of life you truly need to prepare an exotic deck.
>>
>>84409969
Not entirely sure on the Deathtouch for Vehicles, but the overall idea is cool. Benefits from Patrol, creates tokens to crew Vehicles, buffs Vehicles.

And I get what you mean about your fear of handing out Patrol.

>>84414093
Relying entirely on Vehicles for both effects makes me unsure about this. I wonder if it would be better to apply the effects more generally, but give a discount for each Vehicle you control. Though that would still greatly raise the mana cost.

>>84415196
NTA, and I only drafted SNC once, but I don't recall anyone there leaning into the "different mana values in your graveyard" theme.
>>
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I had problem with a draft archetype in my set (UR discard), I bent a quarter of commons and uncommons to facilitate it, I made other archetypes more graveyard focused for cross-synergy, but all this time I had a nagging feeling it's a dead end. The randomised packs I used to simulate Sealed had the problem of providing discard fodder, discard enablers and discard pay-offs at the same time quite often; that happened even despite me twisting some cards to serve as all three.

Then I checked how discard decks fared in Modern Horizons 2 leagues. I was using MH2 because it had a discard theme but it wasn't apparent in all colours, like cycling in Ikoria/Amonkhet or Madness in Innistrad. Seeing how poorly non-madness non-combo "discard matters" cards fared confirmed my suspicions. If I want UR discard theme to actually work, the _whole_ must be changed to accommodate that, but that wasn't something I wanted.
Scrapping the set and starting designing the limited archetypes again was dreadful, because it meant that I probably wouldn't ever finish the set, it's been already years since I started making it, with a big pause around 2020.

Fortunately I noticed, that I can make UR focused on pic rel.
— It's a mechanic that was already in the set;
— It has similar playstyle to "prowess"/"spell slinger" archetypes that are often UR so the drafters can fall back on their experiences with other sets;
— It focuses on casting enchantments thus working with the rest of the set and has the element of uniqueness;
— "Flaring" enchantments loads the graveyard so the un/common cards that I had changed to have synergy with graveyard strategies will require only minor tweaks.

I can't believe I didn't see this solution all these months after I started working again on the set.
>>
>>84415500
>NTA, and I only drafted SNC once, but I don't recall anyone there leaning into the "different mana values in your graveyard" theme.
It's hard to turn on. Threshold and Delirium were non-trivial, but with some focus could be drafted in such a way that the bonuses were achieved in the mid-game; in Constructed there were enough enablers for the mechanic to be "active" pretty much right away.
That 5 different CMCs thingy is not a mid-game mechanic, but a late game one. If you don't draft a deck that's focused on it, you may not achieve the goal the whole game.
>>
>>84415500
>Relying entirely on Vehicles for both effects makes me unsure about this.
Maybe, although it was one of the votes card as for the collabset. At the very least adjusting other cards to have less overlap made more sense to me.

>>84415751
A bit odd to have an Enchanment-centric mechanic in UR, but I think your justification makes sense. Especially if your attempts at a discard focus aren't working out.
>>
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Looking for some feedback regarding three card slots; outside of these I think I'm in a good spot right now with the collab. Please let me know which version in each row you prefer:

>CR09a
Current version. Can't bring it down to 2cmc, but feels like it should maybe get a buff of some kind?
>B
Red could use another death trigger and this is very simple and non-offensive, but probably kind of redundant.
>C
A basic rummage death trigger which plays better with her scry, though red has three other rummage effects at common so this might be one too many?

>UR07a
A card meant to help RB and WR maintain some pressure while also providing some value when it dies either through sacrifice or as a decent exalted target. Mana cost specified to help keep things in balance and prevent infinites.
>B
Selectable targets increase at the expense of repetition. Gets a better death effect.
>C
Impulse draw variant with the best possible death trigger and a decently wide, but still restricted to prevent looping trigger. Other "impulse" style cards in the set are RB however and I'm not sure if this clashes too hard with BU and its lore.

>RR02a
A buff spell with some good insurance on it for the resource investment that has some small tricks to it. Good for both RB and WR and provides great value scaling.
>B
Recursion to help RB and WR's late-game It loses the scaling bonus for Treasure spent in favor of converting treasure spent into a bulkier body.
>C
Slightly modified version of the community submitted card Boom Tutor. Look for an answer then explode it. No treasure interaction outside providing an X to dump into.


>>84415751
Sorry it didn't turn out the way you wanted, but I'm glad you found something to shift into. I had a similar situation with my cards for this set.

>>84415993
>>84415500
It's a vehicle set so it makes sense for there to be some cards with payoffs for it and/or specific to it.

>>84410739
Name and image indicate food tokens, but mechanically it's fine.
>>
>>84417350
Just want to point out this card from SNC that worked very well with sac outlets.
>>
>>84417350
I think UR07b is the safest of the middle row. It ensures a lack of an unforseen loops even with any cost reduction or added mana generation. Having it only be the first one each turn is less explosive, but it also feels less awkward to not have the Cmc restriction.
>>
>>84409969

Showing someone in vehicle while shooting out of it might communicate the vehicle getting Death touch

Finding a fantasy type vehicle with elf shooting out of it might be tough
>>
>>84406761
The and Vehicles portion of RM03a's second ability is redundant since they'll gain those when they become artifact creatures anyway. also plenty of room for flavor on these. Not sure how I like having this also give first strike especially if it's alongside something that can give deathtouch, but both are 5-cost...
>>84417660
Not him, but I don't know, the fact he's blasting a hole through the tentacle is enough for me.
>>
Thank for the words of encouragement.
>>84415993
>A bit odd to have an Enchanment-centric mechanic in UR
It helps that the whole set is enchantment-centric. Blue-Red focusing on the enchantments-that-behave-like-instants is an acceptable bend in my opinion.
> if your attempts at a discard focus aren't working out.
It -could- work out, but the whole set must have been built up with discarding in mind... and that's not the set I wanted to make.
>>84417350
>I had a similar situation with my cards for this set.
Can you tell more?
>>
>>84417660
I mean, the art is of him on a ship blasting a sea monster. That said, the deathtouch was added much later in the design process, so it's not exactly concrete.

>>84418032
Point taken on the potential to mix together first strike and deathtouch in that way. I had considered making the Enchantment grant reach and hexproof instead, though I wasn't sure if that wouldn't be more overbearing.
That said, I think the White faction lead had a card that granted first strike to ships, so it may be something to watch out for regardless
>>
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update the cards wording and grammar needs fixes still

Bant leader needs creature type and P/T

Jeskai leader might a little bland as card but i like it
>>
>>84417457
>>84417646
>SNC cards
There's quite a few cards in this set that I like. I almost had the card Sticky Fingers word for word in earlier concept cards, but priced at 1R and uncommon.

>UR07b is the safest
Arguably, I think C is a lot safer, but man are you right on the once per turn thing being a major drag. I tried avoiding it for a long while last tread because it's less fun, but we'll see if anyone else weighs in with a counter point.

Thoughts on the other cards?

>>84418704
Could always go with a tried and true standard buff like +2/+2 or +0/+4 or whatever.
On the note of granting abilities, I kind of wish I had done something more interesting than keyword granting for my "sliver" cards for Wr. I guess technically firebreathing guy counts in a way.

>>84418591
>Can you tell more?
I was over-focused with Treasure as a mechanic and type that I overfocused on that and in my mental games running it, it was just a chore and overly specific. So I refocused the entirety of the color to instead care about an aspect of treasure, the fact it sacrifices. This let me give a better identity to the faction as well as opening up design space while helping reduce dependency on something so overly specific that felt like it trapped you.

>>84419262
I think you can do something far more interesting than just value reductions all the time. Like Awakens getting additional +1/+1 counters or Temur caring about sacrificing or etb. Jaskai leader is indeed quite bland. I don't think it even needs to be legendary really. Good value though.
>>
>>84419969
>Thoughts on the other cards?
Well, for CR09, I'm not sure how much extra it really needs. I think the C version is neat for the rummage having synergy with the scry, though B feels a little cleaner. I think A works fine though, so I don't have an overly strong opinion there.

As for the rares, they seemed more complex. The card draw on Soul Ignition feels a little roundabout when it basically just makes it function as a cantrip.
RR02b feels a little more versatile, since you don't need an existing creature, though it's less immediately dangerous since it's half as much of a power boost and doesn't grant trample.
RR02c feels very odd and potentially exploitable. Especially if you have UR07 as an easy way to get artifacts back from the grave. Being able to tutor an artifact from your library straight into play is a very good effect.
I like RR02a for the flashiness, though RR02b is probably the more practical option.
>>
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>>84419969
>>
>>84419262
>>84420440
Start at commons and work your way up. Try wors the effects as closely as you can to official Magic cards. Install Beleren font.
>>
>>84419969
>Could always go with a tried and true standard buff like +2/+2 or +0/+4 or whatever.
A toughness boost could be a reasonable upside for the enchantment. Unless you meant that for the mG legend for ships, but static p/t boosts for Vehicles is a more awkward wording.
I think granting keywords to Vehicles is a perfectly suitable bonus, although I haven't been doing those designs as much, so maybe there's something I'm missing about doing it on a larger scale. That said, I think every keyword other than Hexproof and Deathtouch will have been done elsewhere, so if neither of those work out, I'd need to try other alternatives. Maybe a Daunt effect or super-trample or something.
>>
>>84421280
Was talking the buffing for the enchant, yes.
As far as ability granting goes, I'd argue that your faction would benefit the most by far from it, so it might be worth doing a "shipwright" or two if you want and have room.
>>
>>84417350
How about "when CR09 becomes tapped, scry"?
>>
>>84424499
Need the attacking ability to stay on it for the vertical "pyramid" cycle and to maintain consistency.
I might just be stuck without having very many death triggers among cards, which isn't the worst thing I guess.
>>
>>84427722
What about "when it dies or becomes tapped, do X"? If every trigger in the cycle is the same, would that not work for any of them? It'd be an easy way to add more death triggers.
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>>84428135
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>>84427842
I originally had some cards like that, but the problem is a few fold. Dealing damage is very red and dealing face hit damage is something that is sometimes hard to do and also is unlikely to happen repeatedly in a turn. This is not the case with tapping. So I would likely have to rework a lot of these to balance massage them and they also lose that aggressive redness feel. Additionally it makes chasing first strike less feels good as does dealing with combat since you're getting the effects immediately anyway so it ends up not feeling very red and not very exciting.
I use it on one card, RM01, and I might keep the dies extra on him.

Old trigger versions found here:
>>84345335
>>84345353
>>84345377
(working on update to ur08 from feedback)

>>84428135
Pretty friggen nice.
>>
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Possible rework brainstorm. Left side (a) is the original and right side (b) is a potential rework.
CR09 becomes a rather nice 2-drop and CR06 becomes a blocker that has value once it's no longer able to keep up.
Bottom two cards are a separate issue. Do you think they're too similar?

Thoughts?
>>
>>84429150
Scraphound I could also just change the dies to "when ~ dies, you may put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control." A bit contradictory to a sacrifice strategy, but still simple and on the cards theme.
>>
>>84417350
Black lead here. Meant to reply to your cards earlier, but I was at work then just forgot about them later. Apologies.

>CR09
Evasion would make sense with the damage trigger. Draw also makes sense.

>UR07
Not connecting to any of these. Don't worry too much about lore, we can figure it out later. Let's focus on mechanics for now. But if you wanted something more accurate, I guess the recursion effect would result in or trigger off the creature dying. Though I'm still not sure about letting R recur artifacts like this.

>RR02
I definitely prefer B. It's clean and easy to understand. Temporary recursion is a fairly standard effect. Plus it gains some counters to hit harder if you lean into Treasure mana. Though I almost want it to gain the counters even if it's a non-Vehicle, noncreature artifact, for the benefit of animation effects. But that might lead to unintended interactions and hinder gameplay.

>>84429025
>tapped or dies
Ugh. It works and makes sense, but I don't like this. Specifically calling out Vehicles was cool. Though I understand you're doing the best for your cards. So don't revert the change on my account just because I don't like it. Although... instead of making it a damage trigger, maybe an attack trigger?

>>84429150
>CR06
OK, I definitely need to look into R artifact interaction to see if they recur artifact cards like this. Anyway, pump feels too good. 4-power with FStrike feels pretty good. Could also make for an annoying blocker too.

>CM03
Reminds me a bit of Body Dropper. Though during prerelease I felt like that card didn't get to do much. This card does trigger off saccing anything though.

>CM04
Eh, fine I guess.
>>
>>84429656
For UR07, how would this proposal strike you; how would you feel if this was in black? If I remember right, you mentioned struggling a bit with a sacrifice card of your own in uncommon at the same cmc. That would free you to do a red card that could benefit your faction as well if desired.
All in all UR07 seems to be in a swing state.

This last uncommon card is killing me. I guess if anyone has any other suggestions for a card that can proc off sacs and has an on death trigger let me know.

RR02 I've been leaning B pretty hard myself. I think this seals the deal. The extra counters may be a bit much yeah. Especially since the set doesn't have any real animation effects for the most part.

>tapped or dies
as per my statements on that, I do not like this approach at all. I was just showing it off. I suppose I could investigate attacks or dies, but again you lose a bit of the excitement and cards would need tuning as well as some other shuffling since a lot of my cards are based around combat.

CR06 I could just make it a 3/1 with unconditional first strike and then a death trigger too like the +1/+1 counter if recursion is a no go. It's also possible my fun times with goblin welder and other similar trade cards like trash for treasure colored my opinions too much.
It was a solid blocker before, but this would make it quite a wall. I almost wonder if it would be detrimental to Bilge Rat since the two occupy a similar sphere though they always did.

I may or may not be day drinking rum and marathoning pirates of the caribean
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And to bump the thread why not see just how far we can push the fortune teller as well as another take on a death trigger for the dog. Alternatively I could remove the artifact sac and just have it give one counter.

Also possible idea:
>Whenever ~ or a Vehicle it crewed this turn deals combat damage to a player or dies,...
>>
https://scryfall.com/search?q=c%3Dr+o%3A%2F%28artifact%7Cequipment%7Cvehicle%29%2F+o%3Agraveyard+not%3Areprint&unique=cards&as=grid&order=released
From this search, it really looks like when R recurs artifacts, it does so by putting them back onto the battlefield or casting them, NOT putting them back into the hand, with the lone exception of Pia's Revolution.

>>84430056
>UR07
Being R isn't a huge problem for me (outside of how it recurs artifacts). It's the effect itself that's not really doing anything for me. It's a sac payoff that allows you to recur artifacts, which you might've sacced previously. Not entirely sure what's bugging me about it. Maybe because it's reactive rather than proactive? You need a sac ability for it to really do anything. Also not a fan of the last ability, feels disconnected from everything else.

Not sure if this fits an uncommon, but how about something like
>Whenever ~ attacks, you may cast an artifact card from your graveyard by sacrificing a creature in addition to paying its other costs.
IDK if that's even any good.

>I suppose I could investigate attacks or dies
What I meant was
>Whenever ~ or a Vehicle it crewed this turn attacks, [...]

>CR06
https://scryfall.com/search?q=t%3Acreature+pow%3E%3D4+o%3Astrike&unique=cards&as=grid&order=released
Looks like WotC generally likes to keep creatures with power 4 or greater that have or can gain FStrike at MV 4 or above. I think the closest comparison to your card is Bull-Rush Bruiser, a 4/3 common for 3R that gains FStrike when it attacks if a condition is met. But that's also the only ability the card has.

>>84431315
Meant to post the above sooner to bump the thread, but something came up. As for CR09, maybe an effect that exiles itself from the graveyard?
>2R, Exile ~ from your graveyard, Discard a card: Draw two cards.
>>
>>84429025
I think I'd agree with >>84429656 that the 'tapped' option might not be the best.
It does make sense to have a consistent trigger though.

>>84429150
>>84431213
>>84431315
Lowering the oracle to 2 cmc could make some sense, as then it becomes an even more direct comparison to Sigiled Skink. I don't think Menace with scry 2 might be too much there, though it does serve to make her more appealing to attack with rather than crew.
A 3 cmc 4/1 with first strike is probably too much though. I think getting back an artifact when it dies or sacrificing one for an extra effect is a pretty flavorful upside. Maybe if it was just the first strike that was conditional rather than the +1/+0? Or maybe make him a 2/2. It is a dog covered in armor after all.

As for CM03 and CM04, I do see what you meant. One is smaller with haste, but is easier to pump, while the other is bigger and more expensive to boost with menace to make it more of a continuous threat. I don't think they're so similar as to be a problem, but I could see a case for differentiating them more. I will say I think CM04's design is more solid of the two of them, though it does play less into faction themes.

>Also possible idea:
>>Whenever ~ or a Vehicle it crewed this turn deals combat damage to a player or dies,...
I think it'd be easier to read if it were instead "Whenever ~ or a Vehicle it crewed this turn attacks or dies,..." though obviously that might require some reworking or rebalancing. It would at least still reward aggression like you mentioned while allowing for that potential death trigger.
>>
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>>84431475
>>84431548
Think I might have something of a medium here. A versions vs. B versions.

>Red recursion
Thought for sure to hand wouldn't have been a big deal, but noted. Will keep that in mind as I continue to fight with UR07.
Think I want to keep it a sacrifice trigger rather than an outlet, but I do like that one. Might just be too potent on my preferred trigger (at least for an uncommon).

>I could see a case for differentiating them more (CM03 and CM04)
Agreed. It's just tough to think of something at the common level since it lowers options.

>Vehicle trigger stuff
I don't know what it is, but I'm really stuck on combat damage as the trigger. If there's a good way I can fold in extra dies triggers there, cool, if not it's no biggie.
>>
>>84432081
Still having trouble with this card from the uncommon cycle. Thought I'd take a page out of your book and change the ping to a death trigger. Please let me know what you think.

>CR09
I'd go with A, but I am a bit biased because I'm the one who suggested the ability. I did suggest some kind of evasion earlier, but I think it makes sense this card would be more likely to hang back and let a Vehicle do the work rather than attack. But could the name be changed? Never liked the "Unreliable" in the name. Just sounded odd to me. Maybe "Blackmist Oracle"?

>CR06
A. The recursion on B doesn't feel fitting given the cost and rarity. A is basically a weakened Ballynock Cohort, so it should be fine. As for flavor text...
>Its bark is worse than its bite, but its barbed armor is worse than both.
Trying to hint at the armor (the artifact requirement) adding to its lethality.
>>
>>84433196
Ah, I was thinking the pay 1 life +1/+1 counter, sac a creature: draw a card guy...
I quite liked that firebeard card before and I think I like it even more now. It seems like a really fun card to build with. Due to the delay though I wonder if the escape could be 3B.

>CR09
Also worth noting that CR09a also works well with your stuff since it does something when it's in the graveyard. Name I can think on. I suppose if she can draw now, even if it's from the grave, she's earned the right to something more than unreliable.

>CR06
I was thinking 1 or lower. I debated on cast from the yard instead, but wasn't sure how you'd feel on that. On one hand it gives some synergy with your faction, but on the other I don't know if that's too close to what you feel is in your pie/ lore/ flavor/ etc. That said about B, A is simple and practical. I just wish it had a little more spice to it, but that's not everything.
>>
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Alright, I've finally navigated the hell of finding all the original art for these damn things. I'll throw everything up, and see where it stands. I hope at least most of it holds up.
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With the rares here, I did change a few things. Bumped a card I didn't really care for to put the blue lieutenant in. I also changed how Proper Preparations worked because I hated the artifact being an additional cost. Speaking of the lieutenant, it kinda feels like an uncommon almost, so it probably won't pass muster. I like it, but...

Also, does anyone have the set symbol file they can toss up real quick so I don't have to scrounge for it? Thanks.
>>
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>>84435569
Fuck, that's the wrong version of Wrecksifter. This is the current one.
>>
>>84433361
>Ah, I was thinking the pay 1 life +1/+1 counter, sac a creature: draw a card guy...
Yeah, I know which one you meant. Still tinkering with that one though.

>CR06
Casting from graveyard is fine. But just moving from graveyard to battlefield would be fine too. The main point I was trying to drive home was that, while you can recur an artifact, you have to sac a creature to do so. I.e., Krevic comes knocking. Though you made it sound like you were still more interested in making the ability trigger off of saccing stuff. And my suggestion is probably too complex for an uncommon anyway.

>>84435569
Another reason I credit artists: If I ever lose track of the original source and only have the card, having the artist credit helps track down the source. Especially since so many search results direct you to goddamn Pinterest.

Not going over these with a fine-tooth comb right now because I am tired.

>CGU04
Think I'd make this a nested trigger.
>When this spell counters a noncreature spell, [...]

>CU04
Think I'd specify only the second spell. Just afraid it might get out of hand with cheap spells cast all on the same turn.

>CU06
Interesting, but definitely needs wording help.

>CU07
G effect feels a little underwhelming. Not entirely sure what to replace it with though. ETB artifact/enchantment destruction effect?

>CU11
Not a fan. It's a hard counter if they don't pay, a soft counter if they do.

>>84435608
Still not a fan of the "mills three or more" trigger.
>>
>>84435996
>>84435578
>UGU02
I understand they have their differences, but I do find it odd this and UGU01 both can place a land onto the battlefield, are in the same rarity, and have nearly the same cost.

>UGU03
Change last ability to
>Enchanted creature

>UU06
What is the point of bouncing this?

>>84435596
Not entirely sure your cast triggers line up with each other. Looking at RGU01 and RGU02 next to each other made me realize that you have two different cast triggers going on with your cards, and I wonder if it would be better for the set if one was cut in order to emphasize the other.

>RGU02
I like how the abilities here mean you can't give it the counters the same turn you Surge it out. Helps balance it I feel.

>RGU03
Single counter feels eh. Wonder if this could distribute more counters. Maybe one counter to each of your creatures, then apply the other effects based on the greatest stats among all creatures you control, not just one. Maybe that's too much though.

>RU01
Cool design. Plays into Surge, nets you a body equal to the mana cost you just cheated.

>RU02
I thought we weren't doing any creature tribal. Regardless, not a fan. This feels like a mG card that is U only because it interacts with U types. It doesn't play into your factions mechanics or even the broader set mechanics. Might be a cool idea for a person living on the plane, but doesn't feel like it fits in this set.

>RU03
I'd say
>As an additional cost to cast this spell, tap an untapped Vehicle you control.
>Draw two cards. If a Vehicle was tapped to pay this spell’s additional cost, instead draw three cards, then discard a card.
Though I'm not sure you need the discard.

>RU04
Feel like this should do more. Exactly what though, IDK.

>Also, does anyone have the set symbol file they can toss up real quick so I don't have to scrounge for it? Thanks.
Looks like it's in the Box folder.
>>
>>84436141
I'll look over everything in more depth later on, but I agree with RU02. It's just a type soup lord. More something I'd expect in a commander draft product or something like that. If he wants to do creature types as a sub-theme that's fine probably, but he'll want to slim it down to one or two.
I also thought one of his big issues was not a coherent identity or goal for the faction so I'm wondering if he settled on it just covering wildlife for the most part more than it being a faction in itself.
Mechanic/ gameplan-wise it looks like there's a clear focus on milling here so that's good.
>>
>>84428650
Hell yyyyaaaaaa
>>
>>84435608
Oh dear, Ruin Crab is gonna love this
>>
There's not enough Caribou Tribal
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>>84437339
Here u go
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Is there an editor that allows me to use the Judgement prototype frames?
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>>84439726
What is this? Was this a prototype for the 8th Edition frame? Honestly not a fan. So much of the space on the left is just useless. Maybe it would work if they redesigned how mana costs were listed on cards. IIRC, Maro spoke about the possibility of using symbols as well as numbers for things like generic costs. That way you could tell that one card was more expensive than the other by just looking at the symbols, rather than having to process the numbers. Which I think is kinda an interesting idea. Though I don't think it would be a good idea for Magic, since they have to list colored mana as well. Maybe something like Netrunner where all the card costs are generic.
>>
>>84439981
I'm actually working on a homebrew game and I really want to use this frame to set it apart from MTG.
>>
>>84439726
It can be found in the "deluxe" version of MSE with all those fancy-schmancy frames... but it also has so many redundant frames, it's horrible. It's better to download just the bare bones version of MSE and the M15 Mainframe + any specific frames that you want separately.

>Name of the folder:
magic-testprint-8th.mse-style
>Name of the style:
8th Test
>Short description of the style:
8th Edition Test Prints
>>
>Players were instructed to expressly not "construct "their own library of a predetermined number of game components by examining and selecting [the] game components from [a] reservoir of game components" or you may infringe on U.S. Patent No. 5,662,332 to Garfield."
Richard Garfield is such a corporate fuckface. Having to use the legal system to bully parody TCGs.
>>
>>84435569
>CU06
Given the rest of your cards, it's weird seeing artificer as a creature type among them.
>CU07
Outside of playing it for its surge cost with green mana and being one of the sets rare fliers, this card feels like it could use some tuning.
>CU08
Art and flavor or good, but I wonder if this couldn't evolve into something that could help your or UB's gameplan or a build strategy more.
>C10
Shift+enter for small line breaks. Don't know if you're still having that issue.
>CU11
I wonder if this or CU09s taxing could be changed to something else to better separate the two.
>>84435578
>UGU06
No need for you may.
>UGU05
Flash and trample?
>UU04
I don't like how this relies on combat damage and then converts it into any selection of players. Would say that player with an may to do it to yourself or change the trigger to either enter the battlefield or dies and equal to its power with some +1/+1 escape counters.
>UU10
You don't have a lot of instant and sorcery spells or a focus on them, so this falls a little short imo. Creature side could also use something.
>>
>>84435596
>RU02
Yeah this is a good place to discuss generals...

Okay I like a lot of your cards. Most of them I think. With that said, there are a few concerns I've got:

Your side seems to be sea life of the plane, but it would still be good to put some agency in it so it feels more connected. This can be done in flavor text for instance or maybe leaning into depicting Homarids or something.

This goes over into strategy and keyword. This feels like a really good collection of cards, but I'm not seeing too much synergy with itself.
You're not really using surge much at all and when you're using it, you're not really doing anything with it. It's just there on the card.

You've also got a lot of counters and bounce, maybe a hair too much, but there's not a lot you're doing with those. They're good for scooping up cheap surge targets, but again.
You also use enchantments and modal more than anyone, but those aspects aren't touched on. Leaning more into mill is a good idea since it synergizes with BU and is good for flavor.
The point being, you have all these little sub themes you could latch onto or build out some more and support for an identity and they all seem more played into than surge and prowess/ storm-like effects do. I would say to reconsider surge some and look at commonalities on your cards and what themes and strategies you can incorporate.

Your mono color legend should ideally help zero in on the strategy of the color/ faction or provide a cool accent to it. A laundry-list lord isn't the approach I'd go with. If you want to refocus and make creature typing a sub theme within your color, go for it, but I'd narrow it down to one or two.

TL;DR: You've got a lot of nice cards, but I really think you need to narrow things down and focus on exactly what you're looking to have the color do/ be it's gameplay focuses, cool stuff to do with it, and then any sub-themes within that scope.
>>
>>84439981
Could just do the color symbol as the background with a number over it for hot much of it you need. It'd still look ugly though. As far as symbols go, I've been a big proponent of getting more iconography into the game to streamline things. Icons for evergreen keywords would be a good place to start especially since they already exist thanks to Ikoria.
>>
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Heres a lineup of some commons and uncommon cards I made
>>
>>84440721
Basic Teuthomancy is silly, but I still like it. I think the Scry could afford to be bigger though.
>>
>>84440578
He already has a gameplan going on, he's just not leaning as hard into it as he could be.
Cheap spells and enchantments to proc surge and prowess.
Bounce spells to recur them.
Mill as primary win condition, surge beats as secondary.

To help these ideas pop more, maybe having a little more bounce over counter spells. Possibly differentiate with opponents things going to top of library instead of hand for combo with mill. More pay off and use of surge or surge elements like bonuses per cast or on enter/ leave effects is really needed.

>>84440721
Gazer seems like something easy to bust. I like the squid a lot.
>>
>>84440721
Red Moon Rabisu shouldn't have lifelink since red doesn't have life gain and Rabisu's damage effect would trigger lifelink's life gain making you maintain the same amount of life.
>>
>>84443629
I forgot that lifelink with self damage leads to healing, thanks for the catch! I'll prob change it to "You lose 2 life" instead
>>
>>84443657
There's a difference between hybrid and multicolor
>>
>>84443751
So it should be fine if I make it gold instead of red?
>>
>>84444862
It would need to be BR rather than B/R, yes. The distinction is that if it's hybrid, you could get a lifelink creature using only Red mana, which isn't within its color pie.
Menace would be more suitable if you wanted to keep it hybrid
>>
>>84435996

>CGU04
Sure thing.

>CU04
Hm. First time anyone had worried over the power level of this thing that I can recall. Curious if it'll be a repeat critique.

>CU06
Yeah this was the best the groupthink came up with at the time.

>CU07
Odd because I had been told it was potentially too oppressive as a cheaper creature, if memory serves. I dunno about artifact destruction since I had some hate before and was told to nix it; has something changed?

>CU11
It's cheaper to pay the tax on and harder to cast than Mana Leak though. Hm. I'll look at fiddling with it.

>mill trigger
I got wording help on this I think but I didn't track down the post to fix it, and the collage I found had the unfixed version. I'll see what I can do.
>>
>>84436141

>UGU02/UGU01
I want to change UGU01 now that I look at it. I don't think I need so much ramp; green will be covering that I suspect. I also think the scry is redundant with UU01.

>UGU03
Sure thing.

>UU06
Surge fodder.

>RGU02
Nice to hear.

>RGU03
It seemed like it was fine when I originally posted it, except for people wanting the whole shebang based off power, which I get, but since U has more toughness-based creatures in this and green will also have big butts it felt like the tuning was just right as-is at the time.

>RU01
Thanks.

>RU02
Yeah now that I read it again I hate it. I think I was just throwing shit at the wall. I don't recall any "no tribal" verdicts but it's been how long?

>RU03
I didn't want the vehicle tap to be an additional cost; people didn't seem to like that as I recall so I made it a kicker-esque thing instead. If it were to draw three no discard though, I would make it an additional cost again.

>RU04
Hm. I'll look at it.

>set symbol
I'll see about getting ahold of it then.
>>
>>84437320
It's strong but at least it's not a perpetual combo or anything, unless you keep drawing and dropping lands somehow.

>>84440567

>CU06
Yeah I know. There was a call for more vehicle love among my commons early on and this was the result. I tried to make it less weird with the Druid typing, given what the GU faction is partially about.

>CU07
Again, this is odd since I was told it was oppressive as an on-curve creature. Huh.

>CU08
Maybe, but I need a steady supply of vanilla commons too.

>CU10
MSE won't let me; I tried. I have 2.1.0 from the site and all that.

>CU11
Hmm. Maybe make the tax something nonstandard like mill or bounce on one of them? "Counter target spell unless its controller returns a creature they control to its owner's hand."? Probably for Recede given the cardname?

>UGU06
Alright.

>UGU04
It's a bit odd but I wanted to play with the idea of an ambush blocker that could then be used to beat face the next turn very effectively, and feel smart to play if you can surge it out on the opponent's turn even if you don't need to block with it.

>UU04
Hm. A few people thought it was a bit much before as well so maybe I will limit it to defender and attacker. The +1/+1 counter idea has merit because black does counters on escape so maybe that'd be a good callback as well.

>UU10
Noncreature spell then to better mirror Prowess on the other side?

>>84440578
RU02 is getting overhauled; I can't even defend it (if I wanted to). But I do have to echo what >>84442051 said; I got the faction with the least lore and concept cohesion from the start so I've tried to give it something, and what that anon mentions is what I managed. It could be that I need to do more work, but I think there's a playbook there already, it just needs a bit more tuning. Still, a lot of what you said is helpful and I'll be going over everything more closely in the next bit. Been so long my bias for it all is long dead so changes should be painless.
>>
>>84447159
>noncreature spell
*noncreature cards, derp
>>
>>84446981
>CU01
Didn't think of this at the time, but should this be an Illusion if it's made of aether?

>CU04
Might've been overthinking it at the time. Though trying to search for cards to compare to I realized there aren't a ton of cards at common that offer repeatable mill. At the very least, maybe decrease the mill to two or three.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=r%3Acommon+o%3A%2F%28whenever%7Cbeginning%29.*mill%2F&unique=cards&as=grid&order=released

>CU06
Katsumasa, the Animator
>When ~ enters the battlefield, target noncreature artifact becomes an artifact creature until end of turn. If it's not a Vehicle, it has base power and toughness 3/3 until end of turn.

>CU07
Not sure I agree on it being oppressive, since it only gets the counter if it's cast with two colors of mana. Don't remember about an object to artifact destruction. But we've been on this project for over a year now, so maybe it happened at one point.

>CU11
I also don't like how the soft counter gets around uncounterable spells. Maybe
>Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, its controller may pay 2. If they do, put it into its owner’s hand instead of into that player’s graveyard.
Ugh, that's still not great. IDK, maybe just cut it. I didn't record numbers, but it feels like you have more than enough counterspell effects.

>>84447034
>UU06
Thought of that later. But I'd just make the bounce part of the cost.
>U, Remove four foreshadow counters from ~ and return it to its owner's hand: [...]
Could allow for changing the trigger to make it easier to accrue counters, since bouncing it means it loses all counters on it that remained after the four removed. Oh, and I think I'd change the wording of the trigger to
>Whenever one or more cards are put into a graveyard from a library, [...]

>RGU03
Well, my word isn't gospel. *shrug*

>RU02
I thought for sure the set wouldn't have any tribal effects. But maybe that was just a restriction I placed on myself.
>>
>>84447034
>>84448259
>RU03
Oh, damn. I meant to put a "you may" in the additional cost effect. Yeah, making it mandatory feels like shit. Another suggestion would be to just require you to control a certain number of Vehicles to get the additional effect, rather than having to tap any of them.

As for themes, I think there might be a bit of conflict between effects. Specifically effects that want you to cast two or more spells, and effects that want you to cast noncreature spells. Not sure how to explain it, but I just find it kinda odd that one cares about a card type and the other doesn't. Maybe they could be reconciled with something like Fae Offering, and reward the player for casting a creature spell and noncreature spell the same turn.

Also, if you want to flesh out your faction's lore and place in the plane, just hit us up. Run your ideas past us or ask us for ideas. We're here to help. But if I were to give a rough draft, I think the GU faction could be some sentient underwater species (or group of species) that tries to preserve the natural world in spite of the humans/elves/others creating ships and exploring the world. These people fight alongside the wild beasts of the world, possibly through the use of magic or just taming them.
>>
>>84447159
Another thing worth noting is that you've got a lot of tapping, bounce, and counters, but very little draw which is strange for blue, though I remember in earlier drafts you had quite a lot so I think this was just overcorrection.

I like the bounce and surge play and the idea of bouncing then milling opponents things, but you really need to be doing more with your surge mechanic and adjacent triggers or abilities. It almost seems like you want to use something else instead with how little it comes up in your cards.
>>
>>84435569
>>84435578
>>84435596
With your commentary on people's feedback, here's the cards I'd personally swap out or rework:
>CU06
Artifact and vehicle interaction and calls are important, but this needs work
>CU07
Don't know what people are talking about. Not exciting but a good limited card.
>CU08
>CU09 or 11
>CU10
>UGU01
>UGU03
Not bad, but doesn't help your gameplay much and is similar to a green animating aura.
>UGU04
You could be doing more here
>UU09
>UU10 both sides probably
>RU02
>RU04

Then you just lean a bit more into your themes and draw. If you want mill to be your main win condition and focus, I'd almost suggest switching out surge for something else.
>>
>>84448259
>>84448333
>>84451084
>>84453676

Alright well I didn't think things were going to be this bad. I'll get to work I guess.
>>
>>84435569
>>84435578
>>84435596
By the way, if you've been pushing for mill to help out UB and the Escape mechanic, I've been making more mill cards in B, so I think you can cut down on how much mill you have.
>>
>>84453676
The best way to go about it is to think on your factions mechanic and aspects of it and then how that can affect gameplay or play patterns.

You've already got a unique take on it, a sort of tidal flow where you wash up your own cheap permanents. So play into that strategy and add effects that do things when you cast spells and/or when things you have enter or leave the battlefield for example.

Hard to balance your main strategy, general use cards, and some stuff for your other color pair all in just a handful of cards. Know that we're here for critique and feedback or for anything else at all really.
>>
I've gone some older (and newer) ideas if the UG lead is interested in some community feedback for cards.
>>
bump
>>
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With the thread in a slow state, illustrating my fear of too much rummage in common for the collab.
Been debating turning the fortune teller to a one draw instead.
Granted it isn't straight draw, but this does feel like it might be a little too much?
>>
Spitballing a few things related to the same general idea.
Apparently Menace is primary in red, so I could do:
Turbo Ball Lightning {R}{R}{R}{R}
Creature — Elemental
Trample, Menace, Haste
At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice Turbo Ball Lightning.
6/1

But maybe it's more fun if it's BR?:
Turbo Ball Lightning {B}{B}{R}{R}
Creature — Elemental
Trample, Menace, Haste
At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice Turbo Ball Lightning.
6/1

I don't actually know the order of keywords though, I find it baffling that haste is last. Fleetfoot Dancer has "Trample, lifelink, haste" though. No creature to my knowledge has trample, menace, and haste, so I'm just fucking around I guess. I don't even think any creature has menace and haste either. On cards that list keywords, for example Commander Legends Akroma, Eater of Virtue, some Odrics, they're listed in a completely different order than they seem to be when actually on a creature.
So my other idea here is: just for a dumb pet card idea,Manic-Depressive Ball Lightning would either be reasonable or is it obvious EDH bait?

Manic-Depressive Ball Lightning {R}{W}{B}
Legendary Creature — Elemental
Trample, Lifelink, Menace, Haste
At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice Manic-Depressive Ball Lightning.
6/1

Manic-Depressive Ball Lightning 2 {R}{R}{R}
Legendary Creature — Elemental
Trample, Haste
{W}: ~ gains lifelink until end of turn.
{B}: ~ gains menace until end of turn
At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice Manic-Depressive Ball Lightning 2.
6/1
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>>84455766
Nobody stopping you, anon
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>>84459090
https://scryfall.com/search?q=c%3Dr+o%3A%2Fdiscard.*draw%2F+f%3Amodern&unique=prints&as=grid&order=released
mR rummage ("discard [...] draw") effects:
SNC: 0 (not counting Jaxis)
NEO: 4
VOW: 2 (more through Blood tokens)
MID: 5
AFR: 0
STX: 5 (more through Learn; not counting Fervent Mastery)
KHM: 1
ZNR: 1

I think there should only be 4 or 5 mR rummage effects at maximum, but they need to be spread out so they're not all at common. Maybe one or two at common, the rest at higher rarities.
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>>84459860
I guess what I could do is drop the activated from Oracle, upshift the sorcery to uncommon, downshift probably the boat ninja to common, and re-use the oracle activated on the last uncommon I'm sorting out. Or just drop the oracles activated and use it on the uncommon and be done with it and let oracle suffer as a mediocre card.

Rummage is generally not all that efficient and is more digging for answers than anything, but yeah 4 at common is as I suspected a bit much. and it's hard to fight against a little less filtering.
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>>84460001
I mean, she is the Unreliable Oracle. If anything, it's flavorful to be a mediocre card
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Got the urge to look through my CO cards. Will get back to collab set soon. Just hit a creative block with some of the cards.
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>>84460894
I was a fucking idiot to stick to evergreen mechanics.
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Goodnight bump. Wanted to post a card, but I couldn't come up with anything good.
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>>84461817
I feel that. I stared at MSE for like 20 minutes earlier and made nothing.
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>>84459136
Volatile Arsonist has "Menace, haste", and Rograkh has "First strike, menace, trample". That might suggest it should be Menace, trample, haste.
That said, I do think a Ball Lightning with Menace could certainly get away with being mono-red. The design with Lifelink is pretty neat as WBR though.
>>
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>>84463071
I used a card editor to mock up some to see if i liked the look of a gold card or a red card better, but I’ll go back and fix the keyword order.
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>>84467691
Keyword order is always one of the least intuitive things. I always just look up existing cards, and even then it doesn't always feel consistent
>>
Keyword and ability order tends to go in order of priority and what is most frequently seen. Which is why alternate casting costs or extra costs tend to go near the top of a card, while death effects near the bottom. In this sense, haste is last among keywords because it'll only be relevant for a single turn. Multiple evasion methods on a card is also somewhat uncommon these days so you take what's most important to the flow of combat. So menace would go before trample since that affects what can block it then trample for what happens when that combat occurs.
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>>84469937
Interesting, I'll take note.
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How do we get more people here? I miss when these threads were lively and active. Whenever I hit up my mtg friends about making cards with me they don't see very interested
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>>84463734
I adore this text box. The only problems I have with this cards are numbers, but any balance knobs can be adjusted if necessary.
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>>84472774
I wonder how many people are in the same boat as me where they might also feel the same way as you but when they open MSE they just stare at it for a while. Cause that's my problem; I just don't have the spark anymore. I enjoy these threads but I mostly lurk now.

>>84472805
This is an interesting take on blue evasion, but I think a different actual keyword would be more appealing; slippery is not a very appealing descriptor. Times like this I fire up the thesaurus.
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>>84401361

Plainseek
1W
Sorcery
Each player may search their deck for a Plains card and put it into play tapped. If a player searched their deck, they shuffle.
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>>84472939
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>>84472923
>This is an interesting take on blue evasion
I'm still on the quest of finding "evasion mechanic to replace flying in underwater/underground plane that I can put on ~20 non-rare cards and isn't horsemanship 2.0". If it's not possible, I'll just use Shadow as it's setting-agnostic, it's easy to find fitting art and cards with Shadow already exist.
>slippery is not a very appealing descriptor
What's wrong with it and what are good alternatives?
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>>84472833
Thanks! Yeah, definitely too strong for the cost. Will adjust.

>>84472774
As sad as it is, I'm not too surprised. Designing cards is a lot more technical and doesn't have the same appeal as playing with them.

>>84472923
I think everyone goes through periods of highs and lows. It's just something we have to learn to live with. We're people, not machines. We can't just turn on creativity whenever we want.
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>>84473125
>shadow
>setting-agnostic
It's not though. Things got shadowed when Rath merged with Dominaria and some stuff got stuck in the space between the two.
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>>84472984
How did you get the M12 symbol
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>>84472984
Eh, rather just have W do Plains-searching in a more traditional way.
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>>84472984
*library
Deck is a YGO term
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>>84474631
It was just on the site I used, I forget which one.

>>84474633
In a similar way to G you mean, where W just gets to search out a Plains with no other conditions?

>>84474669
Oops
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>>84473125
I'd go with Elusive myself.
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>>84455766
>>84459791
A mix of new and updated cards from december back when I was super hype for the community cards.

As before, exploring prowess-like and storm-like abilities as well as a few other odds and ends. May have pushed or pulled too hard in some cases. If the UG collab lead or anyone else wants to use in part or in whole any of these, please feel free to.
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>>84473431
It is. What you're saying is like "you can't use Domain if your set isn't about united plane fighting Phyrexia".
The word "shadow" fits both underwater world where it can represent depths and underworld plane where it represents hidden paths and tunnels. It was even successfully used in timeanon's Noir set where it represented criminal "underworld".
An example of a keyword that's not "setting-agnostic" would be Ninjutsu, Bushido, Amass, Slivercycling, Compleated...
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>>84475317
Black lead here. Cards I don't mention are just decent.

>Lurking Below
This should be mB. I'd change the last ability so there's a limit on how much it can mill (maybe it mills more cards but has to exile itself), or there's a condition to be met.

>Manasurge Kraken
I don't like the effect triggering twice, or the extra payment. If anything, this is an effect I'd require the Surge cost to be paid in order to use.

>Undertide Cultist
Think I'd make the ability tap.

>Kraken's Collection
First mode completely outweighs second in terms of costs, which makes this hard to balance. Maybe just return to hand.

>Manasurge Spineback
Pseudo-Storm seems like an interesting idea. Though again, I'm not liking Prowess's "noncreature spells matter" being on the same card as an "all spells matter" ability.

>Stormtide Viper
Interesting idea, making a Vehicle-hosing effect with a second "mode". Don't like this implementation, but it might be worth thinking about.

>Current King
Interesting idea, but needs work. Also should probably be UB.

>The Evermaw
Same as above.

>Tidecrush Hydra
Seems interesting, but maybe GU.

>Manaswell Hydra
Seems kinda insane.

>Crystal Crown Hydra
Don't understand this. Why bounce trigger?

Some interesting ideas in here. Though the thing I mentioned with Spineback is still the number one thing about GU that bugs me. I feel like if Prowess exists on a card with another ability that triggers off spells, the trigger should be for creatures, so you get a payoff no matter what spell you cast. Because Surge doesn't care about what card type the spells are, it just cares about casting multiple spells. The Pseudo-Storm idea is pretty interesting though. Maybe do more with that.
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>>84475317
>>84475729
In case my previous post is ambiguous, I understand you're not Blue lead. But I do think the pseudo-Storm idea is something that might be worth exploring dor the GU faction. Don't recall Blue lead doing it before, but I like how it provides a sorta alternate payoff to Surge. Surge gets spells out for cheaper (usually). Pseudo-Storm benefits from casting multiple spells, which Surge directly plays into.
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>>84475729
Thanks I tend to only do one-off cards or collections. These where just test cases for design space the U lead could mess with, but feedback is great! It looks like tendril-face was the only one to get full marks.

>Lurking
Went through multiple versions, but the base idea was something that did something good for you while it was in the graveyard.
>Manasurge Kraken
Was originally that, but wanted to do an enter/ leave effect if surge and bounce are the colors big themes. Your change is good.
>Undertide Cultist
I can't believe I forgot that. I was so concerned with line counting I think I deleted it by accident when it was 2U, T for the ability.
>Kraken's Collection
It was absolutely hard to balance, but I wanted to do something to highlight this sort of combo. Hate the name a lot and I guess you could just put it on the bottom of the deck rather than 2-step with put+mill for removal.
>Manasurge Spineback
I'm really big on the idea of surge-like and prowess-like triggers, but you raise a good conflict point. Prowess should probably be replaced with the oracle text but have noncreature stricken from it.
>Stormtide
If nothing else comes of this, I'll be happy if I give someone more seasoned than me an idea.
>Current King
I disagree. This is very much a love letter to the old trashy leviathan cards and blue does ample mill. The return is a bit of a bend I'll give you that.
>The Evermaw
Like you mentioned, I think this is a good place for noncreature to be removed. Confusion from 1st and 2nd ability is also possible. Love the art and the story it tells.
>Tidecrush
Could easily be, sure. I split this off from Magebane Hydra or something like that which was GU.
>Manaswell Hydra
I suspected this was too nutty and should have been XX2GU.
>Crystal Crown
It originally looked for spells that where countered, but that didn't exist yet and if he wants to do more bounce, that seems like a good fit considering its activated? (Which would be better on a cheaper card)
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>>84475161
A noun would be the best choice, but I like "elusive".
What do you think of putting it on monoW and monoB cards? It's supposed to replace flying after all.
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>>84477375
It's probably fine in all colors with green being the least friendly to the concept. Keep in mind that this rewards a wide board state that don't use many creatures with this mechanic.
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>>84472805
I don't like how this combos with other forms of evasion. Imagine if you had this and an unblockable creature. Your opponent would never be able to block this because they could never block the other creature.
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>>84473125
The one anon making a higher tech water based setting used something like this:
Keyword (This creature can only be blocked by creatures with keyword and reach.)
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>>84479649
So basically its like they have two unblockable creatures.
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>>84479987
Yeah. Same with Flying. If the opponent can't block a flier, they can't block a creature with Slippery. It's almost like it piggybacks off other evasion abilities. I think that can make for an interesting creature, but not an interesting keyword.
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>>84472805
I think like >>84479649 said it stacks too well with other forms of evasion.
A better wording might be "Creatures you control without slippery must be blocked if able." since then if an opponent is unable to block a flyer for example, their creature would be free to block the slippery one. Essentially only having the other creature serve as a distraction if it was actually possible to block that creature in the first place.
That does make it less useful though, especially in White or Blue where there are already a lot of flyers.
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>>84479953
No offense to him but that's just horsemanship. I'd rather go with shadow than that.
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>>84480237
>>84480132
Thank you for the feedback. "If able" looks sensible, but how do I write the reminder text? I based the first version on Tromokratis.
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>read precedence pastebin
>Alara broke the color pie horribly
How?? It was my first set and I can't think of more than maybe a couple cards that broke color pie. Can anyone help me here, perhaps I'm retarded?
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>>84476172
Sorry if my previous responses were a bit shallow. I was typing on my phone, which I don't find great for going into detail (Internet was out so I couldn't use comp).

>Lurking Below
Maybe have it meet a condition then. Like have it trigger only if you control a certain kind of permanent. Or make it an activated ability. Actually both would probably be best. Any ability you can activate over and over from the graveyard like this kinda sucks because the opponent has so few ways to interact with it.

>Kraken's Collection
I mean, the combo is cool. Though personally I feel like the U faction already has a bit too much mill going on for its own good. Besides, there's already a U card that combos bounce with mill. It requires B to do it, but still.

>Manasurge Spineback
Maybe that or replace Prowess with a different keyword entirely. And I'm not trying to say that this is what U lead *should* do. I'm just giving my personal opinion on the cards as they are now. And the clash with Prowess is just something that keeps bugging me. But if others don't have a problem with it, I don't see why U lead should change their cards just to suit me.

>Current King
It's mostly the return that I think warrants B. I also think the damage-mill is a bit messy. Feels like it might as well just mill twice the amount of damage prevented, rather than that much plus five. Plus it's just not worded properly, but that's an easy fix.

>The Evermaw
Flavor is interesting. It keeps sucking at the library, and occasionally spits something back out. Though I don't understand the first ability. And I don't like how the last ability can potentially mess with an opponent's draws. Plus recurring creatures isn't something U normally does. Actually, I'm not even sure it recurs artifacts or enchantments anymore. Might need to stick to I/S spells.

>Tidecrush
It's just that personally I'm not a huge fan of giving U a bunch of counters.
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>>84476172
>>84480931
>Manaswell
My biggest issue is how many counters it can get. I'd definitely rebalance that ability. And for the last ability, just have it add mana directly instead of cost reduction. Just restrict it to only using the mana to cast spells.

>Crystal Crown
So something like Lullmage Mentor?
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>>84480896
WotC wasn't prepared for a tri-color set and they realized it too late. It's mostly just weird designs for some multicolor cards like Rhox War Monk, which has no reason to be G or U, except to keep the mana value down by making it harder to cast. And the faction mechanics don't do a great job lining up with the individual colors. Like recurring creatures from the graveyard with Unearth doesn't feel very U.
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>>84481077
Wait so the whole issue is occasionally a color feels kind of extraneous or vestigial? I can live with that. I thought it was more like them getting access to stuff they shouldn't. The idea that a 3 color card should have a mechanic frok every single one of those colors seems kinda pointless to me. And so far Alara seems like a better 3 color set than new capenna, to me at least. Maybe not tarkir. But Outlast didn't feel particularly black to me, Dash is arguable not white. I guess to be fair I don't remember it showing up on a white card, but still.

The problem of giving a color access to something it shouldn't have, is negates when it's on a 3 color card that requires you to have all 3 of those colors, one of which presumably is the one that ability would fit into. At least in my mind, it's definitely not as bad as phyrexian mana.
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>>84481174
I feel like people brought up Alara more in the past and it was just getting annoying. Now I can't even really remember why I brought up Alara in that post. Oh well. Maybe I've just learned to live with vestigial colors. It's something WotC has acknowledged, that creating tri-color cards is actually fairly difficult, which is why they don't do it all that often.

>Outlast in Black
Every now and then WotC makes B part of a "toughness matters" theme. I think they're still trying to push it away from aggressive creatures that R gets access to, since I'm pretty certain they brought that up with Bane Alley Blackguard. Also +1/+1 counters in general fit G, W, and B well since they get more access to them than U or R.

>Dash in White
Dash wasn't in White. It was introduced in FRF, where the previous tri-color factions were shedding their enemy colors.

As for SNC, it's also not perfect. Frankly I think any tri-color set will have to bend the color pie a bit. But I think the keywords mostly work. Shield counters for U and Connive for W I think are the most glaring bends.
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>>84481291
Oh I didn't realize you wrote the pastebin link. It's quite good. At worst maybe you could add to elaborate about Alara so you get fewer annoying questions from dummies like me. Fair point as to outlast. And dash. Maybe raid would be a better example? But I only ever saw that in black and red, never white.

I just look at the purpose of the color pie to limit a color from getting too much, so a 3 color non hybrid shouldn't worry about not including abilities from some of its colors because at work that makes it a throwaway Timmy card no one wants. Which is also bad if the main concern is balance between colors then it's not that big of a deal. Unless of course the other cards of a cycle are better and that unbalances it. But all else being equal I see nothing particularly wrong with a UWG 3/4 lifelink, anymore than a vanilla blue 1/1 for U. It has no reason to be blue so why not make it colorless? Or am I extending the argument badly?
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>>84481174
>occasionally
A huge amount of cards did. Exalted is not blue, Unearth is not blue, white caring about 5+ power and black caring about artifacts didn't make sense. Without to mention that Esper normalized colored artifacts just to create an identity.
Devour is probably the only one that's fine in the colors it was.
Color pie-wise, alara was a trainwreck. They obviously couldn't make enough cards that justified the colors they were in, and just started adding color pips to card costs just to call the set tricolor for the sake of marketability.
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>>84481534
It's fine. And Raid also works in W because it does have an aggressive side to it. Do you think W makes all those creature tokens just to stand there? No, they're going to charge and kick your face in. Raid in U though feels like a bend. Though maybe it's just a consequence of creatures attacking is the central point of the game that everything else is built around. IDK.

As for Alara, it looks like >>84481567 has a better handle on why Alara isn't good for the color pie than I do. I guess past me was more familiar with the failings of the Alara block, but I haven't thought about that block for probably years now, so I've just forgotten most of those things.
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>>84481567 (me)
Just to clarify, I like Alara, and I like tricolor cards, I just wish they put more effort into the development of the set.
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I agree that Alara wasn't really adhering to the colour pie, but remember that WotC gave up on it. The "to hell with representing all the colours of a gold card" approach not only spread to other three-colour-focused sets, it even applied to Ravnica.
Remember the infamous "BG Serra Angel" question from the Great Designer Search 3?
>28. We try to avoid making two-color cards where the card could be done as a monocolor card in one of the two colors. >Given that, suppose you have a two-color 4/4 creature with flying and vigilance (and no other abilities). What of the following color combinations would be the best choice for this card?

Part of the reason why the question was controversial was that the aforementioned principle was discarded by Nosewater the second when GRN was released. Which means that
>We try to avoid making two-color cards where the card could be done as a monocolor card in one of the two colors.
was a LIE AT THE TIME OF WRITING!
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>>84481567
Black caring about artifacts isn't that strange, especially with the way Salvage Slasher and Salvage Titan do it where it's more about artifacts in the graveyard.
I'd say Unearth is probably the most egregious within Blue, since not only is it graveyard revival, it's also haste, and can only be used offensively. Arguably it's the haste that's most out of color, since Blue did eventually get stuff like Embalm and Eternalize.
Exalted I'd say is borderline, since all colors get at least some methods of pumping. There would certainly be better ways of fitting Blue into an Exalted strategy though, like different payoffs for when a creature attacks alone.

Caring about {ower 5+ was also odd in White, and overall there are a lot of bends going around. I think it might be a good indication for how much you could get away with in a tri-color set, but the standalone cards aren't the best examples without that bigger picture and context.
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>>84482152
>>84481567
In my opinion Capenna did much better work choosing mechanics for the colours. The only odd one is Connive in White.
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>>84481567
Sounds like Blue is the stick in the mud there. As for white and power 5+ ... Maybe pic related? I know it's a blue effect but seeing ferocious in a blue card makes me wonder what the difference is here.

I just think maybe the standard is too high to expect every single mechanic to perfectly fit all three colors. Or just never do three color sets again, but I like them.

>>84482096
Lol. Given that that is literally serra angel I'm surprised that was even a question. But yeah I see the hypocrisy there.
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>>84482680
I'd say Ferocious isn't exactly a great fit for Blue either.
That said, I think the simple change for Naya would be to use Formidable instead, where it cares about the total combined power of all your creatures, allowing it to work well with high power creatures, as well as White's preferred method of swarming the board with small ones instead.
Of course, Formidable isn't exactly a great keyword, or at least the implementation in Dragons of Tarkir wasn't.
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>>84480132
Well it's a good thing everything here is made up and we can have whatever we want on cards
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>>84482237
I feel like they're trying to make White the "lawful evil" color with all the references to greed and treasure in Orzhov, Drannith, Conquistador vamps and Capenna whites.
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>>84482707
>as well as White's preferred method of swarming the board with small ones instead.
It's not a white-only keyword though. I don't think it ever showed up on a monowhite card in Alara. I could be wrong there. I think it only showed up in red and green.

Same with exalted, although that did show up on a monoblue creature. But it also went on a monoblack creature later in the core sets.

I'm not sure where my point is really going here. I guess I'd have to read more of MaRo talking about the color pie to really form a coherent argument and it'd be arrogant to think I'm smarter than him but I just feel like it is one of those things you should use as a guide but not as a hard rule, in most cases. Because I have never personally heard anyone complain about Alara and it sure did not cause the sort of unbalanced garbage that Phyrexian mana did.

That's the true purpose of the color pie, in my opinion: to keep single colors, both as single colors in themselves, and as components of multicolored decks, from getting too much utility so as to overshadow the others. And for thematic consistency. But all the keywords for Alara felt at least decent thematically, at least to me. They just didn't satisfy every single one of their colors mechanically. I don't know if that's even necessarily possible.

>>84483161
I mean it's the lawful color so sometimes that will mean evil. I know they've explicitly refused any kind of moral value assigned to the colors.
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>>84483373
>But it also went on a monoblack creature
Exalted does kinda fit into the black pie of selfishness.
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>>84483373
To clarify, in Alara, the power 5 theme only showed up in White on Gustrider Exuberant and Sunseed Nurturer as a named thing, which is one less instance than Red had with Bloodthorn Taunter, Exuberant Firestoker, and Where Ancients Tread. The vast majority included some Green.

Formidable was obviously only RG during the Tarkir block, but I bring it up because having creatures with a total power of 8+ would fit a White more than having single creatures with power 5+. Obviously both fit RG just fine, as Ferocious, Formidable, Pack Tactics, and similar mechanics have consistently been in those two colors.
I do think that Ferocious and the unnamed power 5 mechanic were serviceable bends, however.
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>>84482707
>I'd say Ferocious isn't exactly a great fit for Blue either.
True, but at least they have one "big blue fish" at common per set to enable it.
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>>84483373
>I know they've explicitly refused any kind of moral value assigned to the colors.
Then why the hell is all of Yawgmoth's stuff black?
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>>84483744
Because his methods fit blacks ethos.
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>>84483461
>I do think that Ferocious and the unnamed power 5 mechanic were serviceable bends, however.
Why are those okay but exalted or unearth aren't? Unless I'm wrong in thinking you think that.

>>84483525
Plenty of things would be good fits for colors while still violating the color pie, if you're basing it off of what they would enable.
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>>84483882
>Why are those okay but exalted or unearth aren't?
To clarify, I think Exalted in Blue was a similar bend, where there were better ways it could have been executed.

Unearthed is mainly a factor of being Blue cards with Haste that makes it feel off to me, and even then it's more because most of the cards with Unearth are designed as attackers. Kathari Screecher and Brackwater Elemental are both only good as a way to smack your opponent's face with a haste creature, which feels very off. Fatestitcher is a bit better, since it's not very good as an attacker and functions more like a Flashback spell stapled to a creature, so I find it's a more fitting method for Unearth on Blue creatures. Kederekt Leviathan is an awkward middle-ground, since the ability is the impactful thing when it comes in, but it also gets to hit face for 5 right away.

In terms of why, I think caring about P/T or increasing it is something that shows up at least in small amounts across all colors, so a bend for a color to care about in a different way feels more minor compared to granting something haste in order to attack.
To me Unearth is as strange in Blue as something like Dash would be, and only really makes sense as a bend to me when the card functions like Bonded Fetch and isn't possible, or at least isn't the actual goal of the card.
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>>84484117
>To clarify, I think Exalted in Blue was a similar bend, where there were better ways it could have been executed.
Like what? Card draw on player damage?
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>>84484563
Basically what they did with the attacking alone subtheme in the recent Kamigawa set, where the trigger is the same, but the effect is somewhere different. Basically picture a card like Akki Ronin but with looting instead of rummage and without a tribal restriction, or granting hexproof or flying to the lone creature. That means Blue isn't simply pumping up its creatures alone, but is instead supporting a lone attacker in other ways

Cards like Gutter Skulker, Security Bypass, or Yuan-Ti Malison are also examples that could play into that sort of archetype.
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>>84484631
That would have been cool. Hexproof might have been too situational and unlockable might have been considered against the concept of Bant but those would have been good ways to work the blue into it. Sometimes I wonder how well blue was integrated into Bant flavorwise anyway.
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>>84484631
>>84484840
>Valor -- Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, [effect]
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>>84484840
Well, Jhessian Infiltrator already exists, so the effect and flavor would both fit I think. In terms of Blue's role on Bant, I think it's largely the idea of military strategy and scouting/espionage. Frontline Sage and Tortoise Formation are cards focusing on the former, and Jhessian Lookout and Jhessian Outrider play into the idea of having knowledge of incoming threats being important, and of course Jhessian Infiltrator as a literal spy. Basically while the plane does have a lot of honor-bound warfare, the people there are still people, and will therefore do their best to get an advantage during peacetime.
There's also factors of naval warfare, though given this was far before Vehicles, we didn't exactly see any ships, but those would be quite suitable with Bant's themes and with Exalted.
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If you were to give "this creature must be blocked if able" to colours other than green, what colours would they be?
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>>84486178
Red and/or white.
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>>84484869
How is that blue tho

>>84484951
True but as a general mechanic it doesn't focus on unlockables. Jhess seems to be the exception, and if I recall it was the actually blue part of the plane? Or at least much more strongly influenced? It was an island nation I remember that.

>>84486178
This is probably wrong but the only color I've seen it on outside of green was I think black for some golgari card but I can't remember for sure.
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>>84486178
>"this creature must be blocked if able"
I feel like this should be a color neutral effect
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>>84486178
It's mechanically similar to Provoke, which was equally spread in green, red, and white, so I'd say it's a red/white effect. Red and white in general are the colors that seem to mess with blocking the most in general, which is another point in favor of red/white.
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>>84487716
Yeah, Jhess on Bant seem to be monopolizing a lot of the Blue magic in the form of some more underhanded military tactics.
That said, I was using Jhessian Infiltrator as a specific example for how a card with something like Yuan-Ti Malison's first ability wouldn't be out of place in Bant at all.
There aren't a ton of effects one could do triggering off attacking alone, but given there are only a handful of Blue cards with Exalted in the first place, I think there's enough where one could substitute Exalted with those specific effects and have it work fine.
I also mainly brought up the various unblockable cards to show that Blue has done it several times, and therefore having Blue do Blue things when it attacks alone should be within Blue's pie.
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>>84486178
it's called lure and there is a color pie document in the op
if you've seen a sort of function on cards several times before, chances are it's listed.
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Trying to make a card that both hands out counters and benefits from them at the same time. A bit hard in B, since it normally doesn't hand out counters all that much. I don't like how you can sac a creature with a counter on it to the ability to get the draw at the same time. But I can't really think of another way to do this.
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>>84401675
I want to cast it on myself
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>>84489228
Remember that 3/3 lifelinker is much better body than a 3/3 without lifelink. These cards aren't really comparable.
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I asked because Eternal DCg recently introduced Taunt battle skill which is just that ("This must be blocked if possible"). I wanted to compare how the Eternal's devs decided what factions should get the keyword compared to Magic. And since /ccg/ is where I'd get the answer at all and an answer that is sensible since you guys care about the pie more than JotC.
>>84488882
>it's called lure and there is a color pie document in the op
I know about Lure, which is why I asked about a hypothetical situation, where the ability is shared or given to other colours.
>>84487716
>This is probably wrong but the only color I've seen it on outside of green was I think black for some golgari card but I can't remember for sure.
pic rel I assume
>>84487617
>>84487961
>red and/or white
That would be my pick too, with a possible swap white for black.
>>84487915
It's kinda hard to justify in Blue IMO.

Anyway, in Eternal they put that effect in
>Fire (Red +Disenchant –Pyroclasm)
>Justice (White –go-wide +"relic weapon" card type that acts like Form of Dinosaur/weapons in Hearthstone)
>Shadow (Black +unblockable +Shimmer of Possibility)
While leaving
>Time (Green +Unsummon –hexproof )
>Primal (Blue –Essence Scatter +Pyroclasm –mill +fight)
because those two already share Killer skill that allows for fight-like direct attacks.
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>>84489228
The left is overall better since it buffs itself and can gain you more and more life. It works well with the RB faction probably.
The right is good for building up a board state rather than investing in a single creature with it's free payoff being more in line with BU due to all of its escape counters and discard.
Have you looked at any of the older vampire cards for black counter stuff? Those are usually good ways to handle them in black.
So maybe when a creature kills another, put a counter on it and then when a creature you control dies, draw a card if it had a counter? If you need it to have an activated you could have the combat thing be until end of turn.
If your faction is more about control, you could have it to where when one of your own creature or artifacts dies you can pay a cost to put a counter on another or draw or something and then an activated to sacrifice and do whichever youdidnt do for dies.
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>>84491811
>>84489228
Quick and dirty examples:

Whenever a creature dealt (combat) damage by a creature you control this turn dies, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
Whenever a creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it dies, draw a card.

Whenever a nontoken creature or artifact you control is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay 1 life. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
2B, sacrifice a creature or artifact: draw a card. If it had a +1/+1 counter on it, gain 2 life.

Whenever you discard one or more cards, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
4B, sacrifice a creature or artifact: Draw a card, then draw a card for each +1/+1 counter on the sacrificed creature.

Whenever a creature you control with a +1/+1 counter on it dies, draw a card.
Whenever a card from your hand or library is put into your graveyard, you may pay 1 life. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
B, T: Each player mills a card.
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Anyone have any tips for how to start and organize a set from a skeleton perspective, ideally including numbers for limited format cross color archetypes?
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>>84484869
I actually quite like this and wonder if the white collab lead will do any effects like this/ in the nukamigawa style.
Though I'd also make the vehicle flyer sliver uncommon with what I've seen if everyone else's cards.

In any case, keep up the good work guys! Excited to see it firing back up again.
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>>84488623
>and therefore having Blue do Blue things when it attacks alone should be within Blue's pie.
What about for a creature like rhox war monk though? Should it be expected to have all those effects? Should it have had exalted, and fight a creature in attack, and loot on a hit / unblockable on attack alone? I mean that's a cool idea, like it fits it's opposition then can't be blocked because it busted through, but my point is more that it's hard to make something for every color it's in.
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>>84493613
What I'm suggesting is more about making a card like Frontline Sage resemble Akki Ronin more, where rather than having Exalted and an ability to tap to loot, it has an exalted-style trigger to loot. Pic related, since I can't really be more clear on that.
All I'm suggesting is that the three Blue cards with Exalted that already exist could have alternative effects with the same trigger as Exalted, so they work with Exalted, rather than actually having Exalted.

Rhox War Monk is a whole other issue to solve, as it doesn't even have Exalted on it, and the tri-color cards from Alara lacking things from each color is a more frequent occurrence. It certainly doesn't help that Blue is rather lacking in keywords both then and now.
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>>84492671
>>84491811
This card has been hard to figure out. Not just because handing out counters isn't something B tends to do a whole lot, but also because the card is uncommon. I'm honestly thinking of splitting up handing out counters and the payoff for having creatures with counters on them between this card and another. Or maybe just upshift this design slot. IDK. I feel like whatever I come up with will be a bit of a bend. Thanks for coming up with suggestions, will look over them later.
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>>84494483
Hope I'm able to help. An important thing to remember is that not every card needs to be it's own self contained engine or setup and payoff, so splitting up isn't that bad of an idea.

You could always go for a pairing concept where two cards have part of an engine and when you have both it "turns on". The problem with that is people want instant gratification and value these days so semi unrelated abilities on a card might confuse and annoy the modern target demographic, but with the checklist you're after, that might be the way to do it while also maintaining balance at rarity.
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>>84494610
>>84494483
Why not just have it look for things your other card's are already doing:
Casting from graveyard
Discard
Mill
Sacrificing/ dying

You've also got a lot of creatures that escape with counters so I'm not sure you need more ways to hand them out unless you really want to lean hard into counters.
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>>84495083
You know, I think you have a good point. It probably just needs to focus on the payoff, and less on handing out counters. Especially since I already have this, though at rare. So now this kinda feels like a wasted a whole bunch of time on nothing, since my previous iteration of >>84489228 has a fine payoff and meshes well with R, which is something I was pushing for. Well, uh... guess I'll just move onto that rare mB slot then.
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>>84495747
I would argue that card alone works well for a payoff as well as additional setups so you're on the money there.

Your major themes are what you should be looking at for payoffs and triggers. Namely discard, mill, and yard casting since those are your most prominent themes, so a card or two more in lower rarities that plays to one or more of those might not be bad; while looking for sacrificing and dies would be more attuned to red.

If you want to do another counter pay off, with the counters you have, as well as other colors, that should also be fine. Just remember your counters are usually a side effect of escape, so you're back to discard, mill, dies as your key triggers anyway while cast from yard is your exclusive faction trigger.
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>>84496399
Good points. Though I do have counters among a few other cards, it's still a subtheme. And I do remember someone saying that the trigger on RM03 would be good to see show up on another card. So I'll see what I can do with that.

Still need to figure out what I'm doing for the rare mB Escape card though. Tutor idea was interesting for a bit, but I think it's a dead end. I keep wanting to lean towards creature removal or discard, but making such an effect repeatable feels like it would just be aggravating for the opponent. I feel like draw and tokens aren't great either, as those are on the rare UB Escape card.
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>>84496603
And a general reminder to collab leads, specifically green and white: Dont forget some enchantment and graveyard hate. (I know I do sometimes)
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>>84496603
>>84496399
Just saw this card, now I feel compelled to do something with it.
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>>84496636
I did have CG4 here as one of the early instances of enchantment hate, with CG8 being a more efficient version that I've shifted to also be optional graveyard hate, albeit a bit limited.
I was also considering changing NG7's effect to have an exile as part of its token-generation ability, which might help matters, though I wasn't sure how suitable it was. Otherwise I'll need to try and rework another common or uncommon to squeeze in some more.

>>84496603
A thought that occurs for the Rare escape card could be a sorcery that returns a creature from the graveyard to the battlefield, effectively giving every creature in your graveyard escape. It could potentially be set up to exile them when they leave the battlefield in order to cut down on the repetitiveness as well so it isn't simply reviving the same creature over and over.
Not sure if you have anything like that already though, so feel free to disregard it.
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>>84496668
That seems like it could play really nicely with escape and surge. Discard a surge spell to cast an escape card from the grave, and then cast the surge spell for cheaper
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>>84496668
>>84497531
It's a very RB card. If the colorless lead is still MIA, this might make for a good set reprint though.

>>84496692
You definitely expand the textbox with the NG7 rework, but it should still be fine. I'd keep exploring your other cards for ways to sneak in yard hate though just in case there's something a little cleaner you can do.

>effectively giving every creature in your graveyard escape
There's a community submitted card that's basically snapcaster, but it grants escape to creatures and vehicles instead.
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>>84497958
I'll try tinkering with the text on NG7 and see if I can't get it to fit a bit better.
Pic related is my current set of uncommons which probably have the most space for more complicated tweaks or extra graveyard hate.

>There's a community submitted card that's basically snapcaster, but it grants escape to creatures and vehicles instead.
Fair enough then. I had a feeling that might be similar to an existing card.
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>>84498922
NG1 and BG6 look like good choices, NG6 especially. Could turn that patrol check into a modal with a +1/+1 counter or graveyard exile option and it would fit well with the name too.
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>>84497958
>It's a very RB card. If the colorless lead is still MIA, this might make for a good set reprint though.
Well, my idea would be to modify it and make it B or UB. Hopefully it works, since I just realized I'm not entirely sure what color the ability is. Maybe R? Hmm, that might be a problem.

>>84496692
Creature recursion is an obvious B ability. But my problem with that is it clashes with casting from the graveyard. I've been careful to keep the faction consistent in this regard, where it rewards casting from the graveyard, but not direct recursion. I also think it helps flavor a bit. Casting is the Undertide way of coming back from the dead, other ways circumvent the Undertide. R lead has at least one card that recurs creature and artifact cards directly, so I'm fine with other colors recurring directly. I'm just a bit reluctant to do it myself.
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>>84496668
>>84499832
Very rough idea. Would like to make mB if possible, but I can live with UB. Definitely want to make it uncommon though.
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>>84500321
There's not very much blue in there. Exiling and casting from the yard like that is firmly in reds pie at this point too.
What you could do is maybe temporarily give a permanent escape instead. That would help it feel more rooted. If you want more consequences, have the target be mandatory and then exile it or maybe bottom it if you don't escape it.
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>>84500398
Forgot to mention, but I was also inspired by this guy. Will think on your suggestions though. Oh, and I do have a card that grants Escape, though it is at uncommon and grants it to every creature and Vehicle in your graveyard (it's a trigger, so you only get one Escape cast for each non-Escape card).
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>>84500398
>>84500486
>though it is at uncommon
Meant to say mythic. Sorry, in a rush because I'm on break.
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>>84500486
Mate, this is a commander product and a recent one at that. HOWEVER it manages to spoof an otherwise red ability and feel in-color.
The exile in your effect is what I think is pushing it out of color. Hope your break is nice.
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>>84499126
Hmm, potentially quite flavorful. NG1 is a bit awkward to try and fit everything with the existing power 4 wording. NG6 fits pretty nicely though, and I had been considering giving something else to the card.
I would be a little concerned about how repeatable these cards are potentially though, given that one could key off of having enough spells, and the other can gradually empty a graveyard simply by having Vehicles to crew. Of course, the latter can also just grow massive to crush everything, so it's probably not a huge problem.

>>84499832
>Casting is the Undertide way of coming back from the dead, other ways circumvent the Undertide.
That's fair, and I think it makes sense as a flavor distinction. It does seem tricky to come up with solid Black effects that aren't too dangerous to have easily repeatable.
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Guess I'll join the crew is trying to hammer out an uncommon since I also have a problem spot. I can't exactly do much graveyard or enchantment hate, but maybe either of these can do something. E would probably need a name change.
Tried to stay within blacks confines for recursion on d, but it's kind of clunky. Probably best to just leave it to Madam VoodooLady and the new red rare I have for recursion.

>>84501199
Both of these are fine I think and it's hard to decide on which. Don't forget to line up your modals with spaces though so the text is aligned. Though it's likely just the designation making NG6b look cluttered.

>>84500321
Not much I can say that hasn't been said yet, but I think this could lead to something interesting, though I'd argue you might not actually need more recursion.
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>>84501199
>It does seem tricky to come up with solid Black effects that aren't too dangerous to have easily repeatable.
That is the difficulty in using Escape. No one to blame but myself though. I'll think of something. Just might not be able to make an instant or sorcery though.

>cards
I think the change to NG6 is a good call. Sucks that it bloats the text though. But I don't agree with NG1. I feel like cutting one of your own subthemes just to have a graveyard hate effect isn't a good idea. As for alternatives, you might be able to get away with
>Whenever you cast a creature or Vehicle spell with power 4 or greater, you may draw a card. If you don't, exile up to one target card from a graveyard.
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>>84502851
I can't think of many instances I'd prefer an exile over a draw, especially that late game. That said an either-or isn't a bad idea for it.
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>>84502835
>I can't exactly do much graveyard or enchantment hate
I have an idea, but it would probably be rare or above. But I still think it's an interesting exercise.
>Whenever ~ deals combat damage to a player, exile the top card of that player's library and a card from their graveyard. Copy one of those cards. You may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.
Maybe give have the opponent choose what card is exiled from their graveyard, IDK.

Also, Red's done graveyard hate before. Ash Zealot directly punishes casting from the graveyard, and Burn Away just exiles the entire graveyard if it kills something.

>UR07
Exiling creatures instead of letting them die seems like a good way to stop potential recursion. IIRC, OG Kamigawa did that a bit, so there might be some inspiration there. Though the ping seems rather weak, since it can only trigger once a turn. Look at Havoc Jester and Furnace Celebration for comparison. Also, why does this guy have a graveyard ability? If it's because you moved it from the Oracle, the ability made sense on her so you could draw the cards she scried. Here it seems a bit random.

>Not much I can say that hasn't been said yet, but I think this could lead to something interesting, though I'd argue you might not actually need more recursion.
Fair point. Guess I was just excited at seeing it, especially as a 2-mana colorless no less. But I'll look over my cards a bit more before I decide on porting Containment Construct's ability.

>>84502957
Yeah, I know the two options aren't even comparable most of the time. But it was just my suggestion for keeping the original ability while incorporating some graveyard hate.
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>>84502851
The problem with NG1 is that the wordings I've tried with the power 4 phrasing usually end up being really messy and wordy.
I think I will stick with NG6, as I think it helps out the card. I'll see if I can't sort out some better wording for it though.

>>84502835
Yeah, I'll try and rework NG6 so it's a bit cleaner to look at while keeping functionality.

>card
I think E could be a nice fit, as it functions both as graveyard hate since it can help get rid of dangerous escape creatures in the long term. Plus the ping could be handy against 1/1 tokens.
I do think >>84503004 raises a good point with Furnace Celebration, where having it cost a bit of mana but being able to ping more than once could be a good approach. It helps when you're spending a big pile of treasure all at once, but having a cost prevents it from getting too wild.
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>>84503004
>Red's done graveyard hate before
It has, but not a bunch and it's not a primary trait of the color. I do have one card that does it though; think it might have even been the first in the set. Exiles when he or a vehicle he crewed hit face.

>Suggestion
That's more or less a modified version of Captain Bloodfin, but swaps one library card out for a graveyard card. Not a bad idea really, I'll think on that. I just think that might piss off a certain sea monster which I'm not sure he'd want to do.

>Exiling creatures instead of letting them die seems like a good way to stop potential recursion
Yeah that was the idea and the set I used as reference. It shows up in red semi-frequently and I haven't done anything like that yet.
Ping is weak since it's forced meaning he'll have to hit himself if there's no other targets and removing the once per turn restriction would get real stupid real quick for all the free ping.
I could do something like this though:
>"Whenever you sacrifice a permanent for the first time each turn, you may have Outlaw Appraiser deals 2 damage to target creature. If that creature would die this turn, exile it instead."
The damage number is a bit tricky though. I feel I'm hitting 2 and 3 a LOT.

>why does this guy have a graveyard ability?
Every iteration has had some sort of death rummage, but I liked the fact that this has use even if he's been milled.

Common I'm just going to leave at 3 mono rummage effects since they're all pretty mild and red needs the draw to keep up with all the resource it's trashing. It's also been a fucking nightmare trying to shift one of them to common and I no longer have the patience. Probably need at least one in uncommon and then I have one at rare.
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>>84503281
>That's more or less a modified version of Captain Bloodfin, but swaps one library card out for a graveyard card. Not a bad idea really, I'll think on that. I just think that might piss off a certain sea monster which I'm not sure he'd want to do.
We can hash out flavor later. It's nothing super egregious right now. Though note that I specifically had the ability copy one of the exiled cards because I didn't want to end up in a situation where you exile a card from the graveyard, cast it so it ends up back in the graveyard, then use the same card over again.

>Ping is weak since it's forced meaning he'll have to hit himself if there's no other targets and removing the once per turn restriction would get real stupid real quick for all the free ping.
Well, Havoc Jester doesn't put a cap or tax on the ping, but it is one mana higher and has no other abilities. I think Furnace Celebration might be a better direction to go in, where it asks for a mana payment to ping. Maybe 1 mana for 1 damage, since that would combo well with Treasures.

If you need help sorting out Rummage, let us know.
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>>84503427
Another try. Like the art, but don't think it's a good card match. Removed the restriction and made it cost mana.
To be honest, 1 mana 1 damage non-face pings off of a sac trigger scare the piss out of me because you can just chain treasure together into an assload of lava darts that way and that sounds like trouble.

>I specifically had the ability copy one of the exiled cards because I didn't want to end up in a situation where you exile a card from the graveyard, cast it so it ends up back in the graveyard, then use the same card over again.
Good point. Not sure I'll bite down on that any further then since that really starts cluttering the card up. Alternatively think of it as a temporary contract and you can get it back when he's done with it I guess.
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>>84503723
Slightly alternate take. Mostly just art and a shorter name giving me some flavor room.
God awful name, but a possible excuse to use this art and have another generic-ish red creature.
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Taking a shot at the rare mB Escape card. First draft, so everything subject to change (including the name, which is a Pacific Rim reference). Idea is it's a big, dumb beater, so it doesn't get protection, Trample, evasion, or Haste. Was thinking of making it so it "degrades" over time. Like, it loses +1/+1 counters easily. Something like
>If damage would be dealt to ~ while it has a +1/+1 counter on it, prevent that damage and remove that many +1/+1 counters from it instead.
And... well, at that point it's basically a new twist on the BG Polukranos, isn't it?

>>84503723
>>84503810
Eh, I feel like just making the cost higher than the amount of damage dealt would be a better idea. Maybe 2 mana for 1 damage or 3 mana for 2 damage. The former would make it a much worse Ghirapur Aether Grid when taking only Treasures into account.
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>>84504039
Just realized that the Escape cards form a sort-of cycle. Commons are creatures, uncommons are noncreature permanents, and the rare UB Escape card is a nonpermanent. Now I feel like I should try harder to make the mB Escape card a nonpermanent as well. Besdies, I feel like I went too far with doubling the counters.
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>>84504039
Keep in mind the community cards you have to pick from as well since this kind of skirts the line of one.
Overall I think it's a solid design, but I'd pick different art for it. As a spell it was fine, but with all the planets in the background, this seems far more cosmic than ocean based.

>red comments
I'll think on it and see where I'm at after the weekend since I'll be tied up then. 2 mana for 1 damage feels kind of shitty, so I might change it to any target then. Especially since I have a pirate who pings 2 for 1R and an artifact sac also at uncommon. Those two would pair well provided you have tons of mana and field presence to just throw away.
Any preference on the theme direction I guess?

>>84504280
Interesting revelation. A vertical cycle or two helps things feel a little more consistent just like how the cross color cycles we did helps tie the set together. I've got my "pyramid" of mono R vehicle face hitters and then a vertical cycle that scale on artifacts.
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>>84503810
I've been thinking on this, and I think I might be able to actually get away with the trigger costing R for 1 because it's body is laughably fragile and if you've got say 6 treasure, that's a big resource dump to get rid of one big or a small handful of lesser threats. It's also 4cmc.
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>>84504314
>Keep in mind the community cards you have to pick from as well since this kind of skirts the line of one.
Guess that's just one more reason to try a noncreature Escape card.

>Any preference on the theme direction I guess?
The sac theme? Creature buffs, counters, artifact animation, token creation, Impulse draw. Just throwing out R stuff that isn't ping. It is kinda tough since every Treasure is a potential trigger. I feel like most payoffs for that trigger will require a once per turn limitation or a mana tax.

>Interesting revelation.
I thought so too. Though it's not entirely accurate, since I forgot that one of my uncommon cycle cards is an Escape creature. But I could always just say it's an outlier due to being part of a cycle.
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>>84507246
More on the skeleton vs voodoo angle. Good points overall though. Most of my sac triggers require some form of extra cost because of the free outlets which other sac trigger cards in mtgs history do not, however I don't think WotC has ever explored sacrifice and treasure within the same set.
I don't want to go too hard in extra mana costs though.

As for the unintentional theming of your escape across rarity, I'm not sure I'm big on pressing into that idea, but maybe it'll work well?
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Another go at the mB Escape card slot.

Left goes back to the old tutor idea, but rebalanced. Escape cost inspired by Demonic Collusion. While I'm aware of the differences between Buyback and Escape, I wanted to see if this cost would fly with you guys or not. If not, I think I'll move on from the tutor idea for real this time.

Right is inspired by Repeating Barrage and B's pinging spells that also gain you life. Sorcery because I don't want player worrying about it during their turn, doesn't hit players so the recursion won't allow it to be a wincon in and of itself. Though I realize it might be too close to my uncommon Escape card, since they're both creature removal with Escape. So this design might not be best either. If that's the case, oh well, back to the grind.

And I just realized that I'm nearly done with my cards. A few changes here and there still need to be made, but the majority of my cards are done, which feels great. Oh, but I did forget about the submission cards. Will have to get on that soon.
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>>84507630
Oh, and I know the art doesn't work well for the ping. First draft, subject to change, etc.

>>84507543
>More on the skeleton vs voodoo angle.
I thought they were the same except for the art and the name. Did I miss something? Or if you're just talking about the flavor, I might like the voodoo-esque one more. Kinda like how not every R creature is a Pirate. Gives the world some variety, even if mechanically it doesn't matter within the context of the set.

>As for the unintentional theming of your escape across rarity, I'm not sure I'm big on pressing into that idea, but maybe it'll work well?
IDK, I did feel kinda bad for making another Escape creature. Just felt kinda cheap. But if I can't hash out a nonpermanent Escape card within the next few iterations, I think I'll throw in the towel on the pseudo-cycle idea.
>>
>>84494364
>and the tri-color cards from Alara lacking things from each color is a more frequent occurrence.
Do you think that's objectively bad for the game or just missed potential? What about something like wooly thoctar? What if wooly thoctar had been an artifact creature and cost WUB? Or just a zombie 5/4 for RBU? Would you also consider these bad and if so, why?
>>
>>84507719
Missed potential, mainly. I'm not saying Alara was totally wrong for doing things the way it did, but that it would be possible to use similar keywords and set themes to Alara and be more in-color for the various shards.

I would say in terms of Wooly Thoctar being Green is what mainly makes it feel suitable for it to have such P/T for its toughness. WG is really the color that gets away with that most with that and cards like Watchwolf. I don't think it would have fit WUB or UBR very well, as those aren't really the typical creature colors. Any color trio could get a more efficient card via being multicolor, but just being raw stats on a vanilla beatstick I associate as WG.
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>>84508121
Alright that makes sense. Thanks.
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>>84507630
The uncommon is fine, but I'm really not feeling any of the rares. K for instance could probably be an uncommon.
I'm also not so sure tiering your mechanic like that is such a good idea. Ideally you'd want an attention grabbing bomb or two for the creature side at higher rarities. Then again this isn't an official product, so there's no real worries about having to sell packs and all that.

I recommend every designer do some deck building, limited formats or otherwise, and think on how you'd build a deck with only your cards and how that would look like or work and how many strategies your things can offer.
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>>84509221
The more I think about it, the more tempted I am to just use Undertide Ferryman from the anon submissions. It uses Escape and it grants Escape for recursion while still casting from the graveyard. Though I'm not sure what that means for the other submissions. If I use a submission card for one of my slots, should I include two other submissions cards instead of just one? Or should I come up with another rare non-Escape card?

And speaking of the anon submissions, I have been leaning towards keeping Deadbeard and cutting Sea God's Curse. While Sea God's Curse is pretty neat, it doesn't help out the faction as much as Deadbeard, and feels kinda bad when not used on a Vehicle.

Since the submission cards were made by the tread, I'd appreciate if the thread weighed in on the above.
>>
>>84510453
As the creator of underside ferryman, you're free to use it in any capacity you wish. As is, new name/ art, rebalancing, number shifting, flavortext, etc, it's yours to do with as you see fit my friend.

Modifying and tweaking a submission into something of your own is also fine I think so long as there's two other ones as is in order to stick with the cycle.

Black submissions in general where all strong ideas, so I'm very pleased to have been referenced so much lately even though he's basically just a black snapcaster.
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>>84510453
I don't see any issue with including more of the vote cards. If anything, it makes it even more of a collaborative effort. There's certainly some room for mixing and matching there.
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>>84510654
>I'm very pleased to have been referenced so much lately even though he's basically just a black snapcaster.
It's such a good idea. Frankly, I feel kinda embarrassed that I didn't think of it sooner. I don't think I even thought about granting Escape to cards until it was suggested by an anon. I failed to realize the application of my own mechanic extended beyond just putting it onto cards. Granting it to other cards allows for a new type of recrusion which neatly ties into the previous graveyard casting benefits I'd already created.

I really like the mythic I created, but granting Escape to a single card at a time helped solve a recursion issue I'd had a hard time figuring out on my own.
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So if I go through with my idea to include the three 2nd place submissions in B, this only leads W and U leads to choose their submissions, unless they've already chosen.
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>>84514246
>this only leads
leaves
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>>84514246
White lead said he'd go with Armada Arrester and Never Forget unless he changed his mind.
Blue lead is working on his cards again as seen earlier in the thread.
Colorless lead and organizer-san still MIA.
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>>84514370
Do you think project lead checks the Box? Like, if we upload something there, will he see it?
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>>84514453
Only one way to know for sure, but we might have to splinter off of it and redo that if he doesn't show up again.
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>>84507668
More on the art and flavor direction. Voodoo stuff is more or less an offshoot of the pirate concept in a sense. At least for me. I have been trying to not go too hard with pirates and add stuff that can just exist on the plane or be a part of the shipwrights, but it's tough to due with the limited space. >>84507120

>>84510453
For what it's worth, I plan on using a handful of the collab cards if we ever move onto supplemental stuff, so I'd say go right on ahead. If you like a card, but don't want to retool it in any way and are having a hard time cooking something up to gap fill, there's no reason not to reach out. After all, it's a community collab project in the first place.

Speaking of, we still need to sort out the walker situation.

>>84514453
Threw mine in the box finally. It's not totally clean, but it's there just in case. Would recommend others do too if only for a backup.
Also don't forget to make a token or two for the tokens you've got

I'll be out for the weekend, but have fun and keep the thread going. It's been very productive the past few days.
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Incorporated the submission cards. Dropped Kraken from Aphotic Monstrosity since I didn't think it looked particularly like a Kraken. Think Horror works just fine though. Also altered some rules and reminder text on the other two cards, but nothing major. May make some more changes in the future, like altering Ferryman's flavor text, or adding flavor text to Spite. Not sure yet though. Oh, but I will definitely fix Ferryman so the text doesn't clip through the P/T box.

If the creators of Aphotic Monstrosity and Krevic's Spite want to be credited as something other than anon, let me know.
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>>84515571
Ferryman guy here; you can credit me as Leg-Cross-Cat I guess. For some dumb reason that shitpost name stuck in my other circles. If you don't want to, just go with Anon or Anonymous or whatever, that's quite reasonable.
I also did these walker proposals (the green guys name sucks) and a handful of blue cards earlier. I usually just lurk though and build one-off stuff for me and friends though.

>>84511985
Cool to hear I made such an impact!
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>>84515530
>For what it's worth, I plan on using a handful of the collab cards if we ever move onto supplemental stuff
I was definitely thinking of including Sea God's Curse in a potential supplemental set. It has some really cool flavor and I've always appreciated the mechanics of the ability, so it'd be a shame to not do something with it.

>Speaking of, we still need to sort out the walker situation.
Oh shit, I almost forgot about that. I remember Thay, Time anon's mR walker, and a UB walker.
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>>84515571
But Spite has a name under it, it's Ferryman and Monstrosity that are signed "Anon".
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>>84515868
I misspoke. Sorry. Spite was the only one of the top four B submissions to have a name for the designer, so I credited that name on the card.

>>84515729
Added the credit. Thanks again for designing Ferryman. It might've been something obvious to you, but it certainly wasn't obvious to me at the time.
>>
On MSE can you do a whole sheet preview rather than turn each cards into a image and pasting them together in something else
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>>84515571
You also took warlock off of undertide ferryman which is fine since it's used nowhere else in the set. I just like comprehensive change notes. Removing kraken from monstrosity is also fine, but don't forget evergreen keywords don't need reminder text and rare cards aren't required to use preexisting reminder text for other mechanics, so you've got a lot of flavor room there.
Glad spite made it in, it was in my top 5 favorite or all total submissions. If you really want to use sea god's curse eventually, I think it needs some polishing to get it to be a little less hyper situational.

>>84516048
To my knowledge, no, there's no sheet or mass print out like that.

>>84492764
Wish I knew.
>>
Pre-trip page 10 bump. Cmon guys, keep it alive.
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>>84516187
>You also took warlock off of undertide ferryman which is fine since it's used nowhere else in the set.
Didn't even realize it was a Warlock. Think I will keep it. could make for interesting worldbuilding, making pacts with demons or something.

>Removing kraken from monstrosity is also fine, but don't forget evergreen keywords don't need reminder text and rare cards aren't required to use preexisting reminder text for other mechanics, so you've got a lot of flavor room there.
Fair point.

>If you really want to use sea god's curse eventually, I think it needs some polishing to get it to be a little less hyper situational.
Agreed. As good as the flavor is, it's still 6 mana to remove one creature if it doesn't hit a Vehicle. You'd still get a 2/2 token, but that's not worth investing 3 more mana than a simple Murder.
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>>84516048
Not that I know of. Which is one of the many annoyances when using MSE.
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Tinkering with Sea God's Curse. Might have gone a bit too far though.
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>>84519421
Forgot to make it a Curse.
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>>84514246
White lead here, as said by >>84514370
those two are my current choices.
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>>84519673
Gotcha. Guess I missed that earlier.
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Requesting a village peasant version of the screaming trump protest girl holding a pitchfork or torch
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>>84520774
This isn't an art thread.
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D&D character. Bronze dragon corrupted into a shadow dragon.
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>>84522841
Very good, and the abilities on the backside force you into playing black as well, so it's still fine within the color pie
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I dont know if there are PMfags here or not but not sure what gimmicks I could be attached to the sinners
https://files.catbox.moe/oky78b.jpg
>>
MoloKHae, God of Death and Decay
28BB
Legendary Creature - Omniverse God
When MoloKHae enters the battle field, exile all enchantments, artifacts and creatures gain -50/50 until end of turn.
Lands become Wastes.
Permanents lose colors and cannot regain colors.
MoloKHae is unaffected by all card effects.
"I am death, your Eldrazi and Phyrexian oil mean little, worthless lifeform." MoloKHae to Elesh Norn and Jace Beleren.
30/30

MoloKHae is actually a character in a story I'm writing. Its one of many gods in that omniverse. In MTG, I'd surmise it'd take an entire plane just to summon a fraction of it. Its meant to be that powerful.
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>>84526183
this reads like it was made by a 12 year old
>>
Not sure if anyone here plays much Yugioh, but I'll post something anyway:

>Red-Eyes Dark Magician
>DARK
>Spellcaster / Effect
>Level 7
>2500 / 2100
>This card's name becomes "Dark Magician" while on the field or in the GY. You can only use each of the following effects of "Red-Eyes Dark Magician" once per turn.
>* You can send 1 Level 6 or lower DARK monster from your hand or face-up field to the GY; Special Summon this card from your hand in Defense Position.
>* If this card is in your Graveyard: You can Fusion Summon 1 Fusion Monster that lists a "Red-Eyes" or "Dark Magician" monster from your Extra Deck, by banishing Fusion materials listed on it from your Graveyard, including this card.
>>
Good night bump. Don't know what happened to the thread. Maybe just people enjoying their weekend doing other things. Hope it picks up a bit tomorrow.
>>
>>84527816
I want to post cards but I got nothing. Creatively bankrupt; more than usual.
>>
>>84527015
Some. Custom Yugioh cards are usually harder to gauge because the game is a lot messier, for lack of a better term. It's very easy for an innocuous looking card to break the game wide open due to unforeseen interactions.
As for this card, the combo potential is already pretty clear, since it interacts well with Dark Dragoon and Magicians' Souls. Whether it's any better at doing so than a Red-Eyes Fusion engine I'm less sure of, though it does let you avoid running an actual copy of Dark Magician, so it's better if you actually draw it.
>>
>>84528715
I am designing more with Red-Eyes in mind than Dark Magician, but ideally I'd want it playable in both. Might change fusion effect to something else, maybe fetch a RE or DM spell, since that feels like it fits a DM card more than Fusion, even though hoth archetypes have fusion monsters. And RE needs another searcher because it has support cards like Black Metal Dragon that the archetype can't currently search.
>>
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Another Yugioh card to bump. Yes, I like Red-Eyes. Just think they need more support.

>Red-Eyes Full Armor Dragon
>DARK
>Dragon / Fusion / Effect
>Level 8
>2800 / 2400
>1 "Red-Eyes" monster + 1 Effect Monster
>Must first be either Fusion Summoned, or Special Summoned from your Extra Deck by Tributing 1 "Red-Eyes" monster equipped with an Effect Monster. You can only Special Summon "Red-Eyes Full Armor Dragon(s)" once per turn. Unaffected by your opponent's Spell/Trap effects. At the start of the damage step, if this card attacks a monster: You can equip that monster to this card (max 1). This card gains ATK equal to half the original ATK of the monster equipped to it by this effect.

Basically my spin on Red-Eyes Black Metal Dragon. S/T protection because supposedly the machine stuff was supposed to be immune to "magic" effects.
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>>84531570
I'm not saying this is a bad card, it just doesn't really sell its own flavor to me. Different name or something would be better I think; when I think "hunter" I think something that's tooled to specifically deal with a threat, not have a super-broad blanket protection and card advantage mechanic.
>>
bump
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>>84531570
I agree with the other anon. This should be doing something like destroying a demon on entry, hexproof from demons, or taps to exile a demon permanent. While that does make it very niche, it fits the flavor much better. You could have it ETB name a non-human creature type and then it is super geared to fighting and killing that creature, but then I think you'd need a name change. As it sits now, it's fine just boring and the name doesn't really fit what it does.
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>>84533653
>>84535471
Fair points. Think I'll re-tool it into an BR hoser. Maybe have it mention Demons and Devils.
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Not sure on this exile effect.
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>>84536240
I think the activated ability should be the last one. As far as the feel of the card, this is better, but yeah, the exile is a bit weird. If I may suggest something:

>Demons, Devils, and Ogres enter the battlefield tapped.
>Whenever ~ blocks or becomes blocked by a Demon, Devil, or Ogre,it gets +3/+0 and gains first strike until end of turn.
>2/3

I like this callback to Bushido since it's a Samurai, and it has both passive and active hate features
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I made a thematic compliment to the Oni Hunter as well, because reasons.
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>>84537944
You want the art source? I feel like it's your card now. Anyway, not sure about Ogre. Though I guess it does fit better than Devil. Guess it's more of an anti-Black card at that point.
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>>84538522
Nah man, it was just a suggestion, though I know the feeling you mean. I just included Ogres with the Demons and Devils because "oni" pop up in all those categories, as I recall. It was just an idea I had.
>>
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Felt having FStrike by default would be more valuable than another keyword or the ETB tapped ability, which was just included earlier to combo with the exile ability.
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>>84539943
Not sure you needed to drop Devil, but this looks pretty alright, if you're happy with it.
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>>84540108
Oni seem to only be and mention Demons and Ogres, so I thought I might as well just remove Devil. Not entirely sure what the difference is between Ogre Oni and Demon Oni, if there even is one, though.
>>
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Does this work as an uncommon or should it be rare?
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>>84543761
I think it works fine as an uncommon.
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>>84543761
>shittier card type gets the shittier keyword
>>
>When ~ enters the battlefield, create a colorless snow artifact token named Phylactery. When it leaves the battlefield, sacrifice ~.
Is the wording clear that "it" refers to the Phylactery token? Is there a better way to write this that isn't a paragraph long or is this fine? Thank you.
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>>84545743
>that token
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>>84544040
That art really looks like it wants to be a BW card. I like the effect, but the double strike feels tacked-on; it doesn't contribute anything to the concept. Flying kinda is too, but it being an angel means it's kinda expected. I mean I don't hate it or anything; it's neat. I just wonder if maybe you could swap DS with something else or retool the exile effect to jive with it? Like exiling on combat damage or something.

Have a card I am not a talented enough designer to cost properly.
>>
>>84546857
>card
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>>84546857
Can change to BW. DStrike is tacked on because I felt it fit the art (two sickles). Will remove.

>card
What >>84547565 said. Interesting that your idea is symmetrical though. Maybe change to affect spells cast from hand, so you can discard a card with Madness or Flashback, and then cast the discarded card without having to pay the tax.
>>
>>84547565
Hm, seems I missed on the wording on mine, though given the cost on this I think I might have actually chosen correctly. I'll spruce it up.

>>84548166
Yeah now that you mention it that's a good change. Will do.
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>>84548679
Fixed version. Should have just posted it with the responses. Derp.
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A Phenomenon for a Planechase deck.
Also general thoughts on the official Phenomena? Not sure which ones are well liked.
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bump
>>
Making new thread soon.
>>
IDK, I was thinking about Nightmare creatures recently.

New thread:
>>84551353



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