Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade -- less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about. We'll be happy to help you get started on this playstyle.>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128>Previous thread:>>82935690Thread question: What are you essential homerules you can't play without?
Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Roll 1d10 (dice+1d10 in the "options" field) on the table below!Tag your post with [OC] if you want it archived at osrgcontent.blogspot.com.>1. Make a spell>2. Make a monster>3. Make a dungeon setpiece>4. Make a wilderness setpiece>5. Make a city setpiece>6. Make a magic item>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class>8. Make a 4-10 room dungeon>9. Make a trap>10. Roll 2d10 and combine
I asked a question last thread but it was almost dead and maybe I can get more replies this time.I never played an RPG and adult life doesn't give me or my group of friends a lot of free time. I found out about OSR games being lighter on the rules and aesthetic of the thing appealed to me. So I want to pick a system to play but I feel like (and some guys agreed with me in the last thread) that very rules-lite systems like Knave assume you have enough experience to fill in the blanks. I got recommended some retro clone (I assume retro clones are systems that closely copy the original D&D), but there seems to be quite a few variants of those. Does the retroclone I pick make any meaningful difference or are they all the same stuff organized differently? I'm looking for something I can get my RPG-naive friends into but that has enough structure to guide us through our first sessions in an enjoyable way. So far I'm leaning towards Basic Fantasy because it's free and has an abridged PDF I can send the players (I don't think they will have the same interest in going into the rules as I do). Also adventure recommendations are welcome, specially shorter ones.
>>82975968>AdventuresB1 In Search of the UnknownB2 Keep on the Borderlands (one of the best)B3 Palace of the Silver PrincessB4 The Lost CityX1 Isle of DreadX2 Castle Amberthose are some of the best for B/Xyou can try to convert the AD&D adventuresA1-A4 Against the Slave LordsT1-T4 Temple of Elemental EvilG1-G3 Against the GiantsD1-D3 Drow CampaignQ1 Queen of the Demonweb PitsS1-S4 Dungeons of Dread
>>82975968I have no complaints with bfrpg, the ascending armour class was the reason for it being my initial choice and I still use it. If any of your players have experience with 5e that might make the transition easier - that and the separated race and class.If factors like this don't matter to you at the moment, just go with the book you like the art of best. You can download any of them on the trove anyway,
>>82976074actually I do have some complaints with bfrpg, the main one being the strange layout of the book. I resent having to go to the encounter section to find the attack bonus table. Be far more useful to have it in the character creation area in my opinion.
>>82975968Most retroclones just adjust some things according the writer preferred version of dnd and add some houserules, but nothing major, others are just rewrites of old versions with better organization like OSE. If you never played an RPG before Basic Fantasy is probably the best one to get into. As for adventures I can't help you, the way I run my games are more of a hexcrawl sandbox style. If you want to play like that just get the Hexcrawl Adventures on the workshop section of the bfrpg forum, and instead of designing an adventure try to make some NPCs for the party to interact and just add what you think is right for the moment when the players are playing the game. Some NPCs can have some quests, simply stuff in the beginning and let them explore and get connections and experience in your world. If they get to the later levels the quests become more dangerous and the rewards should also be better. Try to make the world alive and try to combine the goals and ambitions of your players characters into the game (ex: if a character wants to become king that can be a great set of quests for high level characters). Don't be afraid to kill players if the rolls say so, it will make the world feel more believable and your players will get better and tackle situations more intelligently. Also read Principia Apocrypha. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
>>82976074We're all RPG virgins, so 5e, Pathfinder or whatever are non factors in terms of adaptability to the game. I'm the only one who has actually read a rule book, but I never played it. I'm looking to hop in a one shot on discord before I DM something.>>82976064Do those classic adventures go without any conversion with BX or Basic Fantasy? (BTW I still didn't totally get what B/X really is).
>>82976295B/X just means Basic/Expert set by Tom Moldvay and David Cook. It's two boxed sets, one covering Basic (levels 1-3) and the other Expert (covering levels 4-14) that's what B/X means.The "B" and "X" coded adventures require NO conversion. You can play them as-is. I HIGHLY recommend Keep on the Borderlands. It provides a mini-campaign setting you can plop into anywhere.The AD&D adventures require some minor conversions.
>>82976295B/X is one of the most liked old school versions of dnd and the one most retroclones try to emulate. It's the one with the simplest rules (other than original dnd) and space for innovation because it's rules light. For classic adventures you need to convert the ac to work with ascending armor, the easier thing to do is just go to the Field Guide of Creatures pdf and substitute the statblocks of the monsters.
>>82976130>>82976295"BX" is shorthand for "Basic/Expert," referring to the edition of D&D pubished in 1981 in two books. This edition is also referred to as "Moldvay/Cook," the editors of said books.>bfrpg information organizationAbout half the way down on bfrpg's downloads page is a GM's screen--skim it then have it at hand while reading the book. BFRPG is a perfectly fine way to start playing.(Someone might chime in as to how clerics are over-powered compared to fighters, but that's inside baseball that you do not need to worry about at this point.) Just grab your friends and go go go.
>>82975968If you're absolutely new to old-school gaming, you can't go wrong with Basic Fantasy RPG, Iron Falcon (by the same writer as BF), or Labyrinth Lord. They're all on the light-ish side of old-school D&D without being so light that they're useless. That said, while all of these games are perfectly serviceable rulesets for people who already understand how old-school D&D is supposed to work, none of them are teaching-tools, and none of them are explicit enough about some important old-school campaign-play assumptions. If you try to play any of them out of the box without bringing any of your own assumptions to them, you'll probably be able to suss out things like the core old-school gameplay loop (player characters start in a place of safety, strike out into the dungeon or the wilderness in search of treasure, return to safety with treasure, accumulate XP for it, grow in power so that they can contend with graver threats and search deeper and further for bigger treasures) on your own. But you'll miss out on concepts like the living sandbox, the persistent milieu, and STRICT TIME RECORDS which aren't really summed up anywhere (even in the Old School Primer, Philotomy's Musings, the Principia Apocrypha, and DM Foo's Z0Z Koans) and instead just sort of float around as piecemeal bits of ephemeral, expected old-school knowledge.Someone really should get to work on a better summary of old-school campaign construction, now that I think about it…
>>82976522That’s probably why B2 Keep on the Borderlands is a perfect place to start because it follows the formula you mentioned and leaves room for bigger and better things. It also explains the flow of old school.
>>82976585Yeah, that's true enough. B2 itself *is* a worthwhile teaching aid, and it has important advice in its text that's absent from both the old rules and clones of the old rules. Also worth noting: B2 itself has a BFRPG clone in the form of JN1, The Chaotic Caves. Worth checking out if you can't find the original.
>>82976522Well chop chop, get stuck in
>>82976622I thought the clone was Morganfort?
How many world map scale things should factions not engaged in combat be able to do in a week? 1d4+1? That seems reasonable. Tasks should have at least 10 units assigned and their resolution should also depend on things like movement rate, construction time, etc. Does Birthright have a decent faction turn system? I want to build one to let people outside of my campaign to control my factions but I don't want to go too abstract. Also, I'm using 10:1 scale for faction battles, thinking of tying a 1d20 roll with a successful attack to trigger a morale check due to a killed leader (on a result of 1 and then expand the result for every unit lost in the 10:1 unit.) Thoughts?
>>82975968bitch you got great replies last thread , sounds like you don't want advice just attention
>>82976522The thing that pisses me off about Basic Fantasy is why did they change the prices for armor? Why did they go with ascending AC and attack bonus? They could have just replicated B/X prices and mechanics.
>>82976941He wasn't trying to make a 1:1 B/X retroclone, and with the legal situation being still so up in the air back then, that would have been a terrible idea even if he was. He wanted to recapture the spirit rather than directly clone, but felt free to put his own stamp on things.
>>82975387Anyone find some decent deals on the DTRPG OSR sale? Unfortunately it's mostly pdfs
>>82976971Plate mail was 60 gold in B/X. Easily affordable by a brand new hot off the presses character. In BF, you'd have to get through an adventure or so before you can afford plate, which is bullshit
>>82976929I just enjoy reading people's opinion and wanted a longer discussion, man. I'm sorry if you replied and thought this made it look like it wasn't appreciated. It absolutely was.
>>82976941>They could have just replicated B/X prices and mechanics.And clearly didn't want to, though you're a brainlet to pretend ascending AC changes the mechanics.
>>82977022Then chage the price, or use a different set of rules I guess?
>>82975968>>82977033Play AD&D you lazy zoomer faggot
>>82977088Yes, but now newly interested anon will have to convert over B/X AC values to Basic Fantasy if he wishes to play the classic adventures. Not a huge deal but annoying, especially for people brand new to OSR. The other thing which is bullshit is having 300 gold list price for plate when it was 60 gold in BX.
>>82977099Fuck off Greg
>>82975968Play B/X or else you're a faggot.
>>82977022>>82977142Plate was expensive back in the day, only nobles and high ranking generals had it, it makes sense.Besides this is a non issue since changing the prices are trivial and everyone should be using silver as standard anyways.
BECMI doesn't seem to get much love here. How come?
>>82977945People post about it almost every other thread, what're you talking about.
One of the features of OSR which I really like is the stronghold "endgame", where you reach name level and become a lord, get or build a stronghold, and run a domain. Who here has either DMed a game with this in it, or had a character get a stronghold?
>>82978136I had a wizard that managed to get a mage tower once, but I ended up exploding it testing a powerful transmogrification potion on a subject.
>>82976283Holy shit bro, try hitting return every once in a while.
>>82978136>>82978424While playing AD&D, I had a fighter who was lucky enough to draw the small keep card from a Deck of Many Things. It was kinda nice as a base of operations, plus the follower troops I got. But eventually ended up having to babysit the rest of the party for doing dumb shit around the keep like setting traps and I had to have the guards arrest them. Suddenly I was the bad guy for some reason. Assholes.
>>82977945It's not exactly the same to B/X, but so close that it might as well be, and its layout is very frustrating: great for people new to RPGs, but incredibly frustrating to use as an everyday RPG reference. So there's little need for it when B/X already works so well.
>>82978648What about the Rules Cyclopedia then?
>>82975968Check these out if you haven't seen it. Its a decent list of intro adventures.
>>82978519The party also turned on me. After I lost the tower the party didn't wanted to pay for the repairs cause I already spent all the party gold on its construction. I was thinking paying them back with the gold from the potions. But that also backfired cause I turned an important cleric member that was responsible of vetoing the alchemists for the crown into a giant gummy bear.
>>82978876Presuming we're still talking comparison to B/X, it's the same issue as BECM, which is that you have a ton of material you'll almost certainly never use that's getting in the way, because next to no one plays to 36th level (or even 20th).
>be poorfag>don't have $200-300 to drop on 1st or 2nd printing of Deities & Demigods Cyclopedia>just buy Legends & Lore, forty bucks>print the excised sixteen pages via Lulu, highest quality still costs less than a tenspotI like the orange spines and Easley covers just fine anyway. (And that pic of Odin truly slaps desu.)
>>82980407Where does one get the legendary excised pages?
>>82980562>>>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:>>http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128 (embed)
>>82977012I got worlds without number because I wanted to see what all the hype was about. Pretty cool so far. Also Fever Swamp because it was recommended in an earlier thread. Also solid.Unfortunately, most of what's on sale is "OSR-adjacent" (if I'm getting my terminology correct)
>>82977099AD&D, the game known for the lightness of its rules.
>>82980407God I'm still mad about how stupid they made Elric look
>>82975387Ive been buying old DND modules in the hopes that i will one day have a group to do OSR stuffI have my eye on T1 The village of hommlet, but it looks like its all included in the temple of elemental evil (as well as having more typos etc)do i need to purchase both or should I just get the temple?
>>82980876or should i not even bother with t1 and just run the lost city or keep of the borderlands?
>>82980876>>82980943Don't bother with T1. The moathouse is a terrific dungeon but otherwise the town is mediocre. One problem is a lot of the design decisions are very dated and don't hold up well. The bigger problem, potentially, is that no other town you run is likely ever going to be that detailed, so it might give your players warped expectations of what other towns are going to be like. Unless you make every town like Hommlet, which is just a waste of time since so much would go unused. Also the Temple of Elemental Evil is famously bad,at least from what I've heard. Never played it myself.
>>82980876Just get temple. T1 is included in it, but with updated maps and diagrams.And you are of course going to get GDQ?
Trying to shill using THAC0 instead of AAC to new players. Gimme an explanation why it is better for players and/or DMs please and thanks, hoping for someone to be more articulate than me. If you have a blog where you wrote about this just link me the article instead.
>>82977142>The other thing which is bullshit is having 300 gold list price for plate when it was 60 gold in BX.D&D's prices are frankly ridiculous from a game-play perspective. You start with enough money to get most of what you want, and anything you can't, you can get in short order. That leaves you with pools of gold that have no real purpose until you get to domain-building, which comes much later, isn't to many people's interest, and is only covered in a cursory manner anyway. So I think a 300 gp price tag for plate is actually a significant improvement. Here's my own revised price list for B/X, achieved by squaring the costs, then dividing by 10 (and selectively tweaking some individual prices). This means that something that cost 10 gp remains at the same price, while things that cost more get inflated in price, and those that cost less get reduced. You'll note that plate mail costs 350 gp, which is slightly more than the price you're complaining about. It gives characters something to shoot for, instead of cleaning out the store from the get-go.
>>82981043Tell them to stop being such prissy faggots. It's fucking simple: THAC0 - AC = Hit Roll
>>82981043Honestly? Aside from getting a more authentic old school experience and using old school material, there's no compelling reason to prefer THAC0. AAC is more intuitive. On the other hand, using THAC0 isn't a big deal. It's the same basic mechanic anyway, and it can be applied a number of ways:THAC0 - AC = number (or higher/better) you need to roll to hitTHAC0 - number rolled = AC (or higher/worse) you are capable of hittingNumber rolled + AC = THAC0 (or lower/better) you need to have to hit
>>82981347If you are REALLY going for authenticity, forget THAC0 and use the attrack matrices
>>82981186DCC isn't OSR but I like what they did with their armor/armor pricing. Definitely makes plate feel like a real investment you have to work for and not just something every other common adventurer can afford to waltz around in
>>82980853You mean just like every elf ever drawn by Jeff Dee?
>>82981043It's not better, it's the fucking same.1d20 + attack bonus ≥ ascending AC to hitor1d20 + descending AC ≥ THAC0 to hit
>>82981621>AAC>THAC0>I’m too lazy to look up a number on a table
>>82981688By all means, explain your procedure for looking up on a table and how this is conducive to running a better game than 1d20 + descending AC ≥ THAC0 to hit.
>>82981752its written on the character sheets dummy for each AC type, the player can just tell you whether they hit or miss
>>82981583To be fair, if we go by protection value, the equivalent of plate mail in B/X is Banded Mail, which is 250 instead of 1,200, though that's still a four-fold increase in price. Armor in Castles & Crusades (also OSR-adjacent at best) is similarly priced, for both +6 and +8 varieties.
>>82981016What is so bad about the Temple part itself?At a glance I do see some stupid shit like giving the Juggernaut stats but come on Xperts and Companions, give me the gritty details.
>>82980407it's funny, I'd probably never actually run AD&D 1E as is, but it's probably the TSR edition I'd want to collect the most
>>82983123Sounds about right, as AD&D has more value as a collector’s set than as a game to be played
>>82983173>Sounds about right, as AD&D has more value as a collector’s set than as a game to be playedI mean I'd probably mine it for things to use with another OSR/TSR system so it's not just about having pretty things on a shelf(even if that is definitely a large portion of it)
one thing i find interesting is that clout basically means nothing in this business. people basically sucked arneson off for years during Gygax's running of TSR because Gygax was supposedly a meaniehead but he never was able to move the initial printing of Adventures in Fantasy - 700 copies, in an era where the average TSR module sold 50k.No matter how much the rpg creator cool kids club sucks your dick it doesnt mean shit. basically, Troika niggers are unbearable
>>82975387What the fuck should our party do with these clerics that are simultaneously chaotic and lawful Preach unconditional love to all beings self flagellate, and can heal all creatures both living and undead?
>>82977945I like BECMI. Well, I love B/E anyway, never really got around to the CMI. The warrior and red dragon is probably my favorite D&D cover art, too.
>>82983918If they are they chaotic towards evil prob nothing, otherwise try to rat them to the headmaster priest.>player makes a deal with a succubus to be more powerful>ends up being pregnant (male character)>my cleric attacks him because association with evil and crimes against nature>party is mad Fuck faggot edgy characters, my rightful indignation is in line with my cleric views.LET NONE SURVIVE
>>82978876Easier to reference than BECMI, but given all the sets they rolled into one book, it's a lot denser than B/X, and it has nonessential rules cluttered in with the essential ones, and nonessential levels (which you'll never get to) taking up space. So I definitely prefer B/X, at least as a foundation. I can definitely understand wanting to expand things a bit, and here the RC has more material, but it's easy enough to use B/X and swipe rules from secondary sources, such as AD&D or the RC.
>>82983886>comparing arneson's rpg ludography to troika's garbagelol
>>82984179What's so bad about Troika?
>>82984200Its not OSR for one thing, so please stop fucking replying to bait.
>>82975387>Ask us whatever you're curious about.What would be a good plot for an OSR game? I've had a couple of very basic campaign concepts and wanted to run one of them.>Explore an ancient castle and the surrounding forests, mines, tombs, etc. using a nearby village as a hub.>Players arrive on a newly discovered continent and form a mercenary/excavation company to make their fortune.>Players get captured by Drow and have to escape.>Some kind of shipwreck island survival scenario.
>>82983306I’ve played and run AD&D for ages. The system seems fine to me. What particular misgivings do you have?
>>82984554Yeah those are all OSR-style scenarios. Throw in investigating a crashed spaceship and you’re golden
>>82984554The drow one isn't really very good (what happens if there's a TPK? What about if half the PCs die, where do replacements come from? What's the game about once they get out? Etc.) but all the others are fine. If you're new to OSR games, the first one is advisable since it's the classic "megadungeon" setup the game was originally designed for.
>>82984600>what happens if there's a TPK? What about if half the PCs die, where do replacements come from?The idea for that one was that the players are fundamentally outmatched in strength and numbers so they have to get sneaky and creative, but they're also up against an enemy that doesn't necessarily want them dead because they're more valuable alive. You could also have smaller-scale combat against Drow retainers/slaves/pets where they could actually win. Replacements could come from freeing other slaves or new slaves being brought in by future raids.>What's the game about once they get out? Etc.I figured that getting out would be a good enough ending. Not every game needs to continue in perpetuity, right? Shipwreck scenarios work much the same way. You might find other survivors along the way, but it's over once you get off the island or whatever.
>>82984636Naw, but this displays a pretty clear unfamiliarity with the way OSR games operate. No offense, it's common for new people, but you don't seem to understand that OSR campaigns aren't made to have an overarching plot like that with a beginning and end. These games are about more or less dodgy people angling for treasure against perils in the underground and the wilderness, any plot-like stories are byproducts. At its simplest, you create a huge dungeon and then the gameplay is the players exploring that with their PCs. It's open-ended by nature.
>>82984554Why not run a sandbox? Drop some plot hooks and the rest just have the world react to the players. The AD&D dmg has tons of sandbox random tables and there are other sandbox tools out there, like generating inn/tavern names and so on
>>82984651What are you talking about? GDQ is literally that. An overarching plot with a beginning and an end.
>>82984651>this displays a pretty clear unfamiliarity with the way OSR games operateNo offense taken. That's why I'm here asking questions. I was just treating the captured by Drow scenario as an accelerated version of the shipwreck scenario, but with the addition of a clear and ever-present threat. I don't think "escape from slavery" is a huge increase in plot complexity over "explore this place to find treasure." It's still fundamentally a setup with no specific story beats, just a place mapped out with obvious and less obvious dangers.>>82984652>Why not run a sandbox?I figured the first two campaigns I suggested were fairly sandbox already or am I narrowing them down too much?
I really really want to start writing my own adventure setting. Something me and my friends could enjoy together. I have a fuckton of ideas pouring into my head but I literally do not know where I would beginHow do I begin, fellas? Do I just write down the first things that come to my mind? Should I define the minutiae first or get straight into it and develop it as I move along?
>>82984717Be practical. Decide the tone and scope of the adventure before the setting, then build the setting bottom-up by creating only the necessary elements and adding the rest as you go. Worldbuilding is fun, you have to remember that you're still trying to deliver a "functional product" for your players or otherwise it's just mental masturbation.
>>82984663So what?First of all, the G and D series are (barely) converted tournament modules, and the creators of D&D initially didn't even understand why people would want to buy modules, since the playstyle we're discussing here clashes with them to some extent; secondly, Q1 is universally acknowledged to be shit. As for the rest:G1 is an 8-page location. You can drop it in wherever you like as a hill giant lair and it doesn't need to be more than that, which is also why it's the best part of the series. G2-3 are not really that good and I can't recommend anyone spend any time on them. D1-3 on the other hand are a great sandbox taken together and actually work better if you skip the plot elements and just use them as the backbone material for the underdark, should the players choose to explore it. The plot is really actively a constraint on the material and it would have been better minus the hackneyed quest, which, again, is the product of the modules originally being made for a tournament contest and not a campaign.TL;DR GDQ isn't some flawless paragon of the OSR that can't be questioned so you can't use it as a counter-argument the way you're doing.
>>82984782No one said it was a flawless paragon. It simply is what you stated OSR wasn’t.
>>82984695>I don't think "escape from slavery" is a huge increase in plot complexity over "explore this place to find treasure."It's not about complexity, it's about open-endedness. Also, from your extended description, the "valuable slaves are recaptured" element works awkwardly with the lethality of old-school D&D. You could just say any death is "knocked out and dragged back to the drow", but, still, this is sufficiently probable -- and again, how does that work if one PC dies and the others survive? I'm not saying these are insurmountable difficulties, just that the system works against the setup and its assumptions about how the game is played will throw a bunch of annoyances in your way. (Another example: if the PCs are valuable, do you mean to start them off on higher levels? With players unfamiliar with old-school gameplay, this might cause trouble, as they misestimate their capabilities, try to rely too much on what's on the character sheet to solve problems (because there are more options there), and so on. Or if you start them out on level 1, are you prepared for them to flee and be recaptured a whole bunch of times as the players learn to cope with PC fragility?)
>>82984803Yes, the plot elements of GDQ are indeed not OSR and you won't find anyone to defend those, correct. What's your point? Again, you can't just use "some old products are imperfect" as an argument to change the definition of old-school.
>>82984717One tip, keep a pencil and piece of paper near you at all times, whenever you get an idea write it down.Also, my honest advice is not to goo into much detail. You don't have to name every rat in the sewers. Just follow the players and see what they are going to do, based on that expand your setting. For example, my players are thrown into sword and sorcery crapsack island where everything is abandoned and civilisation is destroyed 100 years ago. Why? I have no idea yet, maybe it was the demons, undead, evil wizards, maybe all three. When we come to that point I will make something up, so far my players are more concerned about kicking the shit out of runaway slaves(horrible misunderstanding) in the local abandoned keep.
>>82984695>am I narrowing them down too much?Well, many OSR players that I've had were fairly autistic, so they could end up killing an important NPC or getting jailed for thievery. They were pretty unpredictable, so my whole campaign was sandbox and covered an entire world if need be. Sometimes they completely ignored plot hooks to go hexcrawling or dungeon crawling. Or they want to know the name of the tavern, or the peasant taking a shit in the outhouse, or even what the weather is like on that particular day.Maybe it's just that my players were retards. But they would often go "off script" or go in a direct I had not anticipated.
>>82984855>GDQ is not OSR>literally made by Gygax>in 1979-1980>for AD&DIs this bait? The fuck are you on about?
>>82984912Are you retarded? Actually read my posts before you start complaining, nigger.
>>82984924I read your posts. They're all complete nonsense. It's not as if plot elements are a thing completely alien to OSR. Gygax's own personal campaign since the 1970s and even Arneson's were full of plot. See Blackmoor.
>>82984840>from your extended description, the "valuable slaves are recaptured" element works awkwardly with the lethality of old-school D&DSorry, I may have expressed that poorly. Players aren't "valuable slaves" as much as they're just property, and their captors don't want to destroy their own property for no reason as long as they're obedient. Obviously, if it's found that they're trying to escape, then a swift and brutal execution is the best they can hope for so they would have to operate somewhat covertly.I'd plan to start them off at level 1 and if they fail and die or are executed, then they can make new characters in the next batch of captured slaves.
>>82984912NAYRT but seems pretty clear to me that you are the bait. Anon explained already why the plot in GDQ isn't OSR.
>>82984947>Anon tries the desperation tactic of Just Making Shit Up
>>82984955Well that's fair, but you see my point, though, don't you? At the core, I'm not really talking about specific problems but about how the campaign setup just doesn't mesh well with OSR assumptions, so you'll find yourself doing a lot of explanation and compensation, essentially in opposition to the system. This is why I'm advising you to use one of the other campaign setups: they're simply a better fit with old-school systems.An analogy might be deciding to use 7th Sea to run a feudal Japan game. You almost certainly can do that! But why, though?
>>82984969>>82984976>Yikes sweaty! Oof! Let's unpack this>You're not allowed to have plot in your le heckin OSR campaignerinos!!!!>Because I, some random samefagging internet jackass says so!!!Fuck off, retard. If Dave Arneson had plot in his Blackmoor campaign - which is right in the Judge's Guild section of the trove - it's mother fucking OSR.
>>82985017>the campaign setup just doesn't mesh well with OSR assumptions,What are the core assumptions of an OSR game?Based on >>82984651 I figured it was just players being presented with a broader problem or challenge (environment, traps, monsters, etc) with real stakes and free agency to handle it in whatever way they think is best, with the DM arbitrating the results in a harsh, but fair way. I don't have my heart set on this specific scenario so I don't mind running something else, but knowing why it's a poor fit for this type of game would be a useful reference for future scenarios I come up with.
>>82985064>What are the core assumptions of an OSR game?Many have tried and failed to find a concise explanation of this, but basically, the old-school play style is specifically about adventurers recovering loot from dungeons and optionally the wilderness, with the rules emphasizing resource management and danger. Combat is undesirable if it can be avoided, as the XP system is set up to encourage cleverness, with the vast majority of XP coming from gold recovered to safety (indeed, one of the most popular and enduring house rules is to not even bother counting monster XP, so that *all* XP derives directly from gold). It's true that player agency is critical, with the typical/intended setup being that there are no objectives at all except those implied by the advancement rules. PDF related is Gygax's advice on how to set up a campaign, which will hopefully demonstrate the assumptions better than I can describe them. In this sense the OSR is actually a pretty narrow style, even though some great, creative content has been produced working within the framework to create elaborate and fantastic scenarios.As you can probably see just from this thread, there are a bunch of people who really chafe against this for geek social fallacy reasons and don't like being told that their preferences are a mismatch, but this isn't a question of quality at all, it's just a matter of what the old school is about and what the game was designed for.I'll leave a link to this blog post here too, it's part of a very good series on the history of the OSR and might help you get some idea: http://osrsimulacrum.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-historical-look-at-osr-part-v.html
>>82985064>What are the core assumptions of an OSR game?NAYRT. The "escape from the drow" story is too well defined in terms of over-arching story and does not lend itself to open ended resolutions. It presents core mechanical problems around introducing new PCs when they are needed, that can be solved through slight effort from the GM.The foundational fact that it is already a story in itself is the problem. There will be little to no emergent stories from interactions with the campaign. People already know what the ending is, even if you do le epic subversion of expectations. It will never feel like a world they are free to interact with.You can make almost anything work. But, work with the system, not against it, unless you have good reason for working against the system.
>>82985168Thanks, I'll give that a read.>>82985235>There will be little to no emergent stories from interactions with the campaign.>People already know what the ending is,>It will never feel like a world they are free to interact with.Alright, I kind of see the point there. Does that also rule out the island survival scenario or is there some reason why that one isn't subject to the same issues? Because that one was actually something I was pretty enthusiastic about.
>>82985064ntaAt this point you're going in very very broad strokes that aren't tied to much so it gets a lot more difficult to discuss. There are a few different primers that get into what osr gameplay is that you should check out if you haven't seen them. They're all variations on a similar thing, read the one that sticks out to you. Basically the assumptions of a fairly standard campaign are >starting at the dungeon>explore the dungeon, single town and surrounding area>expand into hex crawl/domain play There are variations, changes, etc. in this. Likely the issue with the plan of >respawn as slaves again would be the starting area, how they escape in the first place and how to do that again without it being exactly the same thing which strains plausibility or without the the captors making that method and quickly there after all methods, impossible. Spell casting slaves, slaves with any gear at all, etc. all cause problems for this. I understand the theory that confined circumstances foster creative play. Basic osr is already constrained and does that, you don't need to further restrict it from the get go. Could be interesting as a change of pace for players who have already gotten into the concept though. Its part of the challenge of designing a good >escape from the dungeon premise, which I don't think I've seen done well.
>>82985322The island doesn't have a single overlord cast with control over everything. Ideally. It has various resources that the players have access to with greater ease than the underdark.
>>82985235Wordy other anon here, well explained, thanks for that.>>82985322>Does that also rule out the island survival scenario or is there some reason why that one isn't subject to the same issues? Because that one was actually something I was pretty enthusiastic about.Basically, it depends on exactly what the setup is there. If the game is "you must get off the island and when you do that, the game ends and you win", then yes. If it's more like "the shipwreck is the opening premise for why you are in this strange land full of perils and riches" it's much more workable, but you'll still have the implied problems of e.g. why the players are gathering loot if there's nowhere to spend it, where new PCs are coming from, how spellcasters obtain new spells (besides from loot) and so on. An OSR game might *include* a shipwreck if the PCs were sailing and their ship was wrecked, but then of course the point of surviving and getting off the island is presumably so they can return to their home where all their shit is; it's one obstacle in the course of the larger campaign (and was probably randomly generated), not the entire campaign, and the players would probably get mad as shit if you just said "okay, now that you got back I think we'll end there" since they had a whole thing going before this accident which they want to get back to.Again though, this isn't a knock against your campaign concept! If you're enthusiastic about a desert island survival scenario, you should definitely run one! A game which encourages you to enter dungeons for gold above all other concerns is probably not the best fit for that scenario, though.
>>82985322>Does that also rule out the island survival scenarioIt's close enough and I don't see any immidiate problems. New PCs could simply be new sailors washed up on the shores, for one, and secondly and most importantly, anything you could imagine could be on that Island. Perhaps Moai-like cities/territories which the PCs can ally with or not. If they can be considered in neutral standing to the civilizations there, it would very similar to a standard campaign, with mostly thematical differences.If there is no civilization to interact with, only ruins, animals and monsters, some part of me wonders if the players really would feel like loot and levels is motivation enough. Fame, money and glory when only you and your friends are there to appreciate it doesn't just have the same ring to it. So, people would want to escape the island, which creates in my opinion a wierd situation where they're meant to first build a raft and survive, and then get back to somewhere where they can actually play the game. But, it's alright, certainly if the boat-building aspect is actually gamified somehow and not just "you have a boat because you survived 30 days, and you get off the island". But most importantly, even in this case where they are stranded on an island with noone to interact with, they weren't actually forced to try to escape it. Maybe there's an ancient portal back to mainland 15 levels deep into a volcano, which they can find clues to existing around the island. Maybe they could find a way to signal ships passing by. Maybe there is an underground tunnel network that goes underneath the ocean which they can attempt to traverse. All of the above and you've got a very open ended world.
>>82985346>>82985424>>82985447>the shipwreck is the opening premise for why you are in this strange land full of perils and richesThat's what I'm going for. The idea would be that ships wash up fairly regularly, but it's mostly a one-way ticket either due to some kind of sea monster or some other reason. Doesn't necessarily have to be, but it seems like a good enough explanation for why they don't just build a raft and go.>civilization to interact withI wanted at least one small community of survivors where they can trade supplies, although it would be pretty limited since it's closed off from the larger world, and maybe a tribe or two of native creatures. Other than that, it'd be weird ruins and dangerous jungles.
A true shipwreck on a desert island scenario seems hard to do. Shipwreck on an island that has some civilization (even if it's primitive like the Isle of Dread) seems necessary, since you need the PCs to have a home base and a place to spend treasure.A variant that I use a lot is based on "Morrowind": the PCs are transportees/exiles left on a mostly unexplored island by some imperial power that only has a small ramshackle penal colony there, but the PCs are otherwise free to explore the island and do their own thing. New PCs can come from exiles already in the colony, or from a steady supply of new transportations.
>>82985556The exiles left there by an imperial power seems like a solid premise too. I might use that instead. Might make more sense than the sea monster or maelstrom idea I was playing around with.
>>82985556It's funny you mention Morrowind. I've found myself thinking a bit about how Oblivion and how it relates to OSR-play. In terms of computer RPGs they really must have taken inspiration from older versions of D&D. Certainly, considering something like Daggerfall.
this is the shit right here
>>82980407I’m I just bought a lightly stained 2nd printing of Deities & Demigods for $100 on eBay last week. The pdfs are freely available. Just print what you need and put it in a 3 ring binder. Books have too much extra crap in them.
>>82982856This is all from what I've heard and my own impression reading through it. You're better off reading a review from someone who has actually played it. That being said:It's a massive dungeon in the classic TSR module style where each room description is a block of text that buries the important information between needless fluff. It's also just kind of a monster zoo, in that there are just a bunch of plain rooms with monsters in them that only serve as obstacles or resource taxes on the players. This wouldn't be so bad if it was a slimmer adventure, but the fact that it's just so fucking big makes it seem incredibly tedious and annoying to both run and play.
The biggest difference I’ve noticed since leaving the 5E ghetto and coming to the OSR is that OSR play I don’t know what will happen next. Players have more agency. In 5E my players were on board my plot rail road. Like I was a fantasy author and they were experiencing my world no matter what they did or which direction they went. Much more of a scripted video game experience than an OSR one.
I made a thing to help me with theming my dungeon levels and to kick off brainstorming sessions. It's not done, so if you want to throw out entry suggestions I'll add them.
>>82986259okay oblivion zoomer
>>82987834Hey man that art is tight regardless of the problems with oblivion
>>82987834I like the art from oblivion, what is the problem?
>>82987597I love sandboxes. There are times when I don’t even know what will happen in my own world, like when I use random tables to generate a dungeon or an overland hex and what’s in it. Kinda like a procedurally generated game.
>>82985613Khajit are the Rakasta from Mystara
>>82987597I mean it does sort of sound like had a weird view on 5e but osr does make sandboxing a lot more easy for sure
>>82988391Yeah idk what to do with people that think sandboxing and player driven games are unique to OSR. I guess the products that people publish for the system encourage the on-rails type game.
>>82988666I blame critical role sysndrome and the advent of so many races people will insert themself so much they want to never make a decision but be like a star in a 'movie' and be important without effort , it makes me puke and was why I quit as dm in my last group (first game I dm'ed back then)
Sorry to start about OSE again but I still find it so sad that B/X essentials had so much better art inside , like it used to be fully black and white art inside and only the cover had a nice color art piece , was a lot more affordable as well.
>>82988759>Sorry to start about OSE againNo you’re not.
>>82988759PDF for both is $20. Essentials wasn't "more affordable" lol
if 5 torches deep is 5e x OSR, what would be the equivalent for 3/3.5? Castles and Crusades or Blood and Treasure? Or something else?
>>82989558Five Torches Deep and such start with 5th edition and then try to old-school it, whereas something like Blood and Treasure just borrowed some things from 3rd ed--it didn't start with 3rd and then try to work back to the old school. I don't think there's a 3rd-ed based game that tried that; the earliest such game I can think of is 4th edition, with Fourthcore, probably because the OSR didn't really get going until 3rd ed was almost done.
>>82989558you can't just say it's osr to milk money , five torches deep is also against races in rpg's and should be avoided
>>829901535TD includes races tho what are you talking about (still not OSR)
>>82989558>what would be the equivalent for 3/3.5DCC
>>82990153>you can't just say it's osr to milk moneyI really wish this were true.
>>82990326it does include them but they wish they hadn't
>>82990530Contain your autism. Who cares how they feel about something they included? It's 5e based anyway, so it's only osr inspired at best.
>>82990530>but they wish they hadn't?
So, riddle me this, grogs. There are lots of systems for d6 thief skills. I prefer them to the d%.WB:FMAG folds all thief skills into a d6 roll, which starts at 2-in-6 and jumps to 3-, 4-, and then 5-in-6 at levels 4th, 7th, and 10th. (No idea why it doesn't just use the B/X "hear noise" progression, which is similar, but advances at 3rd, 7th, and 11th.)Delving Deeper just starts thief skills at a flat 3-in-6, and they don't progress at all. And the more I think about it, the more I'm coming around to that idea. It's simple, it ensures that the use of thief skills is always a gamble, and it keeps the thief abilities from ever rendering certain magic effects useless (and not just knock and such, but also the detection abilities of magic swords and wands and the like).But I'm not sure. Would I be completely fucking thieves over to use the Delving Deeper mechanic from now on?
>>82990726Haven't looked at Delving Deeper, what else about thieves is different? Seems like an interesting way to make them out the gate more playable but like it would need something else to keep up after mid level. Not entirely sure though.
>>82987920souvllessfr I liked that art but it seemed weirdly out of place given how 'vanilla' and dialled back Oblivion was from the get-go
>>82990907The only boon they get to balance it out is a more powerful backstab: 2d6 damage at 1st, 4d6 at 5th, 6d6 at 9th.
>>82990726>keeps the thief abilities from ever rendering certain magic effects uselessnot my heckin magerinos we cant ever let them be overshadowed at anything, not even if its the other classes sole reason to be!
>>82990726Eh, I like thief skill progression as a player. I feel like it's just less exciting and enjoyable of an experience if your character doesn't really improve as they level up. Thieves might get better attacks and saves but that's not really their shtick. I don't see the point of a level 1 thief being as good at picking locks as a level 10 thief, especially when compared to how much the other classes progress. But that's just my preference. Really, the people you should be asking are your players, since they're the ones that are going to be in your game
>>82990726>it keeps the thief abilities from ever rendering certain magic effects uselessI'm with the other guy: what the fuck? The problem is all the other way round, that there are spells (second-level spells, no less) which just obsolete the Thief.
>>829895583 torches deep, obv
>>82991451Spells MUs never take.I'm thinking more about the fighter and the intelligent sword schtick.
>>82989558Dungeon Crawl Classics
>>82987597>>82988391>>82988666>>82988701I'm glad this discussion played out the way it did, because even in the first post>I don’t know what will happen next.had me confused as hell.I know you explained it but "even in 5E" how can you know what is going to happen next? It's a role playing game, a fantasy adventure game, your players are making choices and you are neither a psychic nor a soothsayer.You have already answered any questions I would have about your situation, but there's some kind of Lovecraftian anti-logic going on in your posts. I want to make a weird monster based off of them.
>>82991885>Spells MUs never takeAh, yes, because of the strong competition from... *checks notes* ... Locate Object and Detect Evil.
guise what if 'detect invisible' isn't in moldvay basic because it's invisible and you can't detect it
>>82992599you know what's sad is i honestly think this is the best post i have ever made and nobody will carei'm not trying to draw extra attention to it, just having a bit of a cry
>>82975387Can anyone recommend me an osr similar to rogue trader and early 40k?
>>82992623The closest thing to this isn't OSR compatible so I am loathe to recommend it but it is a rip off of the old Advanced Fighting Fantasy RPG rules. The 40K rip off is called Warpstar! and the WHFB rip off is called Warlock! (bad name choice considering there is already an old RPG called that. The orginal Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader material is jam packed with material for you to use. Remember WH40K played these as persistent squad/character skirmish war games originally.
Is Carcosa any good for a hexcrawl?
>>82992623Warband! from Sword+1. Its specifically focused on chaos renegades. Free though. Comes Chaos is whf. You could probably fiddle Stars without Number into RT fairly easily with those two as base.
How can I play mecha OSR? Giant dungeons, salvaging for parts, balancing finishing fights with affording ammo? Battletech only, you know.
>>82993980Ride a golem?
>>82994107But like, from the inside? There's gotta be a ruleset by now, right?
>>82994133No I would explicitly ban riding inside. Have to be expose because magic. There were giant golem riding wizards in the Rifts RPG book Federation of Magic.
>>82993980>>82994133>>82994272The closest thing in D&D is from a BECMI module called Earthshaker. It's a giant "mecha" robot powered by gnomes.
>>82994272JFC you demand to be spoon fed a system? Get home brewing
>>82994593He could just take stuff out of Blackmoor or Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, like firearms and other high tech.
>>82994593That sounds more like "write it on your own and then come back to us", which isn't very useful.Anyway, I think SWN had mecha rules.
>>82994630nta but >we don't have that but here is how you could make it if you want seems like useful advice.
>>82993980What about any of that needs to be osr? Or would be compatible with other osr material? You could probably salvage some of Dragonmech if you want, its 3pf but you could likely take some of the rules and backport them.
>>82994759For 3rd Ed. basis, I'd recommend Dream Pod 9's D20 Mecha Compendium Deluxe Edition. It does mech-building rules but also has a good dozen settings (including a handful of fantasy settings) with a good variety of examples you could base the machines on.
Where the hell can I find players/gms that want to run a campaign and not just one offs
>>82994994git gud and they'll want to play with you more
>>82994994I Recommend going to old school cons. That’s where I met all the guys I play with online. Sorry this isn’t a insta fix.
>>82995030you're gay>>82995051thanks, i'll give some a look in my area. Most of the discords I join are focused on way to high level dungeons and running players through meat grinders with no story.
>>82993826good enough , have fun anon>>82996494what ?
>>82994994>>82995051Being not from the USA does make it a lot harder tho anon , have some buds I play with once a month if I'm lucky so I have just started solo playing modules myself to fill the void
>>82975387Totally random question,I'm from a 3rd world country, and I started playing AD&D via .docs I downloaded off of the internet. Then I travelled to another city just to buy some print books (back then it was available only in one city) when I was in high school. (20 years or so ago)There, I bought Unearthed Arcana, Fiend Folio, Wilderness Survival Guide, etc. The copies I bought were really small, though. Like, really, really small, that would fit in your shirt pocket. What series is that?
>>82996790sounds like some shit reproduction , if you need the proper books in pdf for unlimited printing I recommend the sharethread docs
>>82996790Those miniature books were some sort of special collector's release or some shit, I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind it, but there was a miniature Basic box set as well.
>>82993980>How can I play mecha OSR? Giant dungeons, salvaging for parts, balancing finishing fights with affording ammo? Battletech only, you know.look up the Flame Pomerium articles over on Coins & Scrolls, that should help you figure things out
>>82996844Interesting...Though I can say that they are definitely not user-friendly. >Each book is about 3.25 x 4.25 inches. They come from an Italian company called Twenty First Century Games who had the license to produce miniature editions of the classic AD&D. The inside cover of each book has the TSR Silver Anniversary logo and since the books were made in 1999 they have the TSR Wizards of the Coast address and copyright information.
>>82997262>Though I can say that they are definitely not user-friendly.No, they absolutely aren't. Like i said, a weird gimmick I don't really understand.
>>82975387running stuff similar to gamma world is it too on the nose to have ancient security systems refer to intruders as "anti personnel"?>caphca is "4g nw0" lol
>the guy spamming low-quality questions unrelated to OSR about trivial details of campaigns he isn't even running is back
>>82997474i thought gamma world was OSR
>>82997492>Gamma world >OSR
>>82997516Stop replying, even to sneer at him. Thoughtsfag is a known threadshitter who always posts the same kind of shit. He's also recognizable from the way he writes. When you see him, just report and ignore.
What you running this weekend anons ?I will finish the black wyrm hopefully soon
>>82986259Tag yourself. I'm the Pilgrim.
>>82997686The party is returning to Cragbridge. I have to sort out what the locals did and how to keep around a random encounter outside town. Everyone in the group is excited about it and has various plans/bad ideas. Its going to be a good time. Also working on a town cryer biweekly to send out with rumours and setting bits.
>>82987707Neat. Thanks anon. Why did you set up the columns so there's just one row?
Rolled 6 (1d10)>>82975409
>>82997686My shitbrew of AD&D, Deathbringer by Professor Dungeon Master mixed with WHFRP. It’s a potent blend I call Tomb Robbing Scum (TRS). I use a lot of random card draws for dungeon creation and procedural generation as well.
>>82997686My fucking ACKs game that we've postponed for 2 months. I hope my players find their myconid companion they lost 2 sessions ago, the myconid lair was wiped out by beastmen and they were their only allies in the dungeon
>>82997353Asking Shit to pay pigs. I remember when they came out in like 99. I thought they might be useful to me as a young 20 something that was transient. But even with a magnifying glass they are rather useless. So I did t buy them. Stupid me could have sold them to a collector for big bucks.
>>82996834lol how old are you kid? Those mini books came out in the late 90s. Might have even been the last reissue of AD&D stuff before the WOTC collector cover reprints.
>>82998831Would you recommend this module anon ?What do you mean by the comment about random encounters ? Like are you running out of random encounters or are they becoming permanent parts of certain places ? Hope your players and you have a great time and godspeed.>>82999368Sounds very unique and tailor made , hope you have a lot of fun with it , any good templates to make cards from (what to put on them etc) ?>>82999401Have they started domain level player yet or still wandering looking for fame and fortune ?
>>82999591They are still low level (but loving it). That's the thing that I love most about old D&D, the much lower risk of burnout.Today I think I want to create a campaign setting with landforms similar to south Africa. A desolate road that cuts through a Mesa, dotted by the ruins of great ziggurats, desert dwelling folk sleeping in the deep folds of the earth where they may find water and psychic lizard men warring with lords of pain.
How do secondary skills work in AD&D? Bonuses for rolling under a stat if the task relates to background? Allowing players to do downtime tasks?
>>82999368What's the deal with Deathbringer? How does it differ from B/X? I hear PDM talk about it but I've never encountered anyone that's actually played (or read) the rules.
>>83000158They only work to add flavor. It’s up to the DM if they actually provide any kind of bonus to rolls
>>83000130Sounds very nice , what resources or dnd books would you use as your baseline to start off from or is it all custom ?
Me and my group want to play a d&d basic adventure, as a one off to see how it feels. Would you recommend playing the original basic dnd or a "modern" retro clone? If so which one?Bonus questions:Out of the adventure mentioned in the OSR Intro Adventures pdf, which one would you recommend?Thanks for the feedback in advance
>>83000541Moldvay BasicB4 with the Fast Packs in the appendix
>>83000516Probably my atlas for landforms and then 'Filling in the blanks' for my hex stocking (overstating a bit, it's just "descriptive noun.")Generally I like to create magic artifacts before a campaign starts and then write like a paragraph of history for em before I even stock lairs/dungeons with them. I'll post my results when I finish.
>>83000266The rules are for paterons only I believe. Biggest difference is everyone starts with 10 hp + con and hp is capped at 16. Combat has opposing rolls. There are luck dice (add a lick die d6) to just about any roll. Roll a d6 in combat in that many rounds something happens usually more enemy’s show up. Has some unified 5E stuff like uniform attribute bonuses and DC attribute checks. It’s basically a mashup of Advanced Fighting Fantasy RPGs combat system, WFRPG old world classes and setting, 5E, BX and a touch of DCC; 1 in 20 chance of Magical corruption and heroic deeds
Running Isle of Dread soon. 5e conversion by Goodman Games. Planning on keeping the game old school in feel and tone. What tips can you give me (inb4 don't play 5e)?
>>82998854Sheer autism. If I do 2 column format it splits the tables in a way that I think looks weird.
>>83000817sounds nice anon , good luck
>>83000999XP for GP, 1/4 XP for defeated monsters. But anon, I have been on your path and it's OK for levels 1-5, but the game becomes untenable a short while after.
>>82997686I'm getting a new player. I'm not too enthusiastic about him. He plays board games and video games so he has that mentality. He wanted to make a cleric character so he can both "wear armor and heal himself". Although I run sword and sorcery setting and there are no clerics as such, I still let him make it since he is going to die anyway if he approaches it like a video game. But hey, all my other players learned OSR style play the hard way.
>>83001195best to learn the hard way if they don't have the aptitude
>>83001195>But hey, all my other players learned OSR style play the hard way.Then you already know what to do. Pain is the best teacher. He wants to a cleric and take care of himself first? Well the When the Bishop excommunicates him for that selfish shit he loses all his spells. Clerics and Paladins are under ecclesiastic/military discipline and will do as they are told. It’s part of the price to pay for the power. An aspect far too many DMs overlook imo. You better be a good behaving, tithing, order obeying SOB.
>>83000999No but seriously, don't play 5e. "Keeping the game old school in feel and tone" is impossible, and shows that you're either engaged in pipe dreams or don't understand the old-school feel.
>>83000999One of the biggest problems with 5E is the front loader abilities and powers low level characters have. Eliminate all those feats and spell like abilities and the bones of a decent game are there. Hasbro/WOTC has determined that the average “campaign” last 6 or less sessions. So they have written game rules that appeals to filthy casuals that will only play a little bit. Have to give them lots of character sheet buttons to press because they will never obtain any skill in their super short campaigns (I hesitate to even use the term campaign) and one shots.
>>83001318I agree. But remember the average 5E player is a filthy casual. They literally don’t know what they don’t know. I am going to sounds like quite the Grog now so advert your eyes children. There is a pervasive modern phenomenon where people go online and talk about shit, watch other people do Shit on YouTube and twitch but never actually do Shit themselves. I guess it’s a low effort way to pretend you are participating in a hobby and lie to yourself. Much akin to world building wankery or making RPG art but never really doing anything with it beyond that. I think we get quite a few posters here in OSRg doing this. With online play everyone who has any interest in this hobby can easily be playing a minimum of once every 2 weeks.
>CASUALSI wouldn't have pegged /osrg/ to be the /tg/ general that sounded the most like /v/ but here we are.
>>83001433>bitching about modern games>"older games were based and redpilled and didn't hold your hand and and">not actually playing those games, that's hard>sure as shit fantasizing about itOn the other hand.
>>83001433>>83001472The 5efag cries out in pain even as he strikes you
>>83001433I mean the OSR is defined by garekeeping, so probably shouldn’t surprise you.
>>83001715>garekeepingLike gatekeeping, but for the Paris metro.
>>83001699You will never finish a campaign
>>83001715We build walls and gates around that which we value. That which we believe to be important in our life and hence worthy of defending. The gaming tourist cares not for these things. The sanctity of traditions means nothing to him. Indeed, he is an uncouth barbarian just passing through the gaming hobby. He will discard these games without an afterthought. Those of us who have spent more years than nought playing these games have a deep intellectual and emotional investment in their preservation. A gatekeeper? A gatekeeper is the greatest compliment you can pay me.
>>83001973You've rehearsed that one, haven't you
>>83001715You misspelled "Garykeeping".
>>82975387I have this thing for Traveller. I really do adore injury systems. I just wanted to know how you could manage something like that in osr? since going pure mechanics you are either ok or dead. I guess part of that might be rp. I knowe adding something so fundemental might change its nature and loose the potential for immediate death. any thoughts?
>>83002012good one. Anything is only a thing insofar as it has general boundaries defined. otherwise the very term is useless.
>>83002028Death spirals are so '90s.
>>83002092traveller is 70s. but i understand your meaning. I like the idea of somehow both having the potential to just die outright, but also just be hurt to the point where you are less capable. But I don't want it to be an auto buffer before death like a death save.I think that's my conundrum. I want something between death and complete capability, but I don't want it to feel like just a buffer between the two that always happens as a live for free card. I was thinking if you are down to a 1/3 of your hp you roll for injury. idk.
>>83002195Maybe if you take more than a given percentage of your HP in one go you save or fall unconscious, something like that?
>>83002246eh.. thats not so much an injury though as an auto out.
>>83002314The idea is that as you level up you become less and less susceptible to it. But I feel adding penalties for HP loss is just a longer way of getting to the same spot, IME with death spiral systems it doesn't take that much damage to make a PC generally unable to affect a fight.
>>83001188Indeed. I'm starting the party at 3rd and progression will be slow.>>83001320I'm allowing only a select few feats for this reason.
>>83002195>I was thinking if you are down to a 1/3 of your hp you roll for injuryThat's a death spiral anon. Once you get an injury you're more likely to lose more HP; you get more likely to die the less HP you have, and therefore it is a death spiral. You are far from the first person to have this idea, so try to learn from the lesson of everyone who has tried it and backed off from it. Hit points are not the way real people work, but it's the way we wish we worked, and this is one case where making the game more realistic definitely makes it worse. The only think like it that I think would work is when a character drops to 0 HP, sometimes they die but sometimes they take a career-ending injury. Then they're a maimed NPC back in town and serve as a grim reminder to look out for whatever danger maimed them.
>>83002028ACKS has its death and dismemberment tables for when you get brought down to 0 but I'd imagine that you want it to come up before thenCourtney Campbell has some similar ones that are pretty fucking brutal that also activate when you hit 0 but I think also happen on crits and don't always mean you're out even when you're at 0And Esoteric enterprises has another one of those tables. You could probably rework one of those.
Did anyone here run something like ACKS, where the main goal is to eventually settle down and become a king or something? I am mostly interested in what were the party dynamics.
>>82975387My essential houserule is no houserules. Moldvay Basic is a perfect system and any changes to it are always trash. It's like trying to touch up the Mona Lisa because you "feel" it doesn't look right.
>>83001988It's a copypasta newfriend
>>83003554How often do your players choose thieves and fighters, just out of curiosity? Do your players tend more towards elves, clerics, and dwarves, given their more immediate utility?
>>83002028>>83002459Back in the early blogging days, everyone and their mother had their homebrew death and dismemberment table. I think Trollsmyth was the first to do it. It's one of those time-tested house rules that became a staple in the blogger wing of the OSR sphere.
>>83001715You are defined as a retard who never plays.>>83001973Stupid pasta is stupid.
>>83003554Do you only play levels 1–3 or did you just say Moldvay Basic as a stand-in for B/X
>>83003841>Stupid pasta is stupid.Nah it's actually hilarious. Find yourself a sense of humor
Okay, my players got their shit kicked in in the dungeon because they keep making dumb mistakes, they are too careless, too eager to fight, absolutely refuse to hire retainers.So, since they bungled this dungeon twice, I was thinking maybe I should introduce party of experienced adventurers with their entourage who will clear out the dungeon for them. Basically to showcase how to do things properly. Later on, I would show those same adventurers getting annihilated by some other antagonistic force which I hope will scare my players even more.But, I don't know if this is a good idea, is taking control of the session away from players bad DMing? On one hand I want to give them advice indirectly, but on the other I don't want this to turn into just me playing with myself and them watching me.
>>83003870It's hilarious if your brain is missing.
>>83003554>i never make any rulings everfucking moron
>>83004046Rulings are not rules, tourist
>>83004193rulings + writing it down = rules
>>83003961I'm 99% sure your players will not appreciate or learn from a group of DMPCs clearing out the dungeon on their behalf. Honestly, just talk to your players and give them advice on how to be competent in a dungeon. You don't even need to give anything away or tell them the solution to your challenges; just ask them about what they think went wrong in their last expedition, what they could do to avoid similar situations, that sort of thing. Get them to think critically about the game, even if it involves "table talk." >>83004046>>83004018>>83003841Please fuck off to whatever cave you came from and don't come back until you get that bug out of your ass. Don't spread your vitriol here.
>>83003961Have you considered not forcing your players through OSR if they're not on board with it?
>>83004250They like it and are pretty enthusiastic about it. The mechanic nuances elude them, they are too conditioned by video games.
>>83004238Shut up retard and take your dumb pasta with you.
>>83004193>rulings are not house rulesIf you say so, anon.
>>83002395fuck off back to 5e retard
>>83004867How about... no.
>>830019705e fags don't play campaigns , they shitpost in discord and follow the shitty backstories of their trans furry characters
>>83004883Touched a nerve, nogames-kun
>>83005004>Touched a nerve, nogames-kun
I started playing a game with a couple zoomers. I put together a little dungeon for them, nothing too serious, just a small funhouse with a focus on puzzles and faction play. I wanted to do something more whimsical since I didn't think they'd be interested in the grim horror dungeons I usually like to run. Anyway, I thought they'd be really into RPing with the different factions and coming up with creative solutions to problems and stuff like that but it turns out these kids are like fucking delta force. They're setting up ambushes, interrogating hostages, scouting out potential choke points, all that stuff. One of them had the idea to test out what a potentially cursed spear would do by tying it to the hands of a surrendered knight and forcing him to stab the corpse of his former comrade. Even I was taken aback by that. I gave them a silly little funhouse and they turned it into fantasy fucking vietnam. I can't wait play with them again.
What are the best tables/resources for populating hexes?
I fucking hate weekend OSRG.Don't interact with 5etards except to do physical violence to them. And stop taking bait.
>>83005257>physical violenceI don't care for 5E but this is hilarious internet tough guy bullshit, please say it's a joke.
>>83005257You best people up for playing 5E?
>>83002459>>83003835thanks, i was thinking about a roll off at zero for death or major injury as a more elegant inclusion. but idk if that felt cheap. Or if that table should change depending on senario (like a small sword in combat having ahiogher chance for injury then a 2 handed axe to a prone opponent.>>83002442I dont mind a decent death spiral (the fact that a variety of games have them shows as such) and I made no claim to thinking of it first. I am well aware of other examples. I just sometimes think its apt to have some state of play between fully capable and outright dead/unconscious. Of course sometimes it will be instant death, but sometimes it might be satisfying to not be 0 or 100 sometimes.
>>83004627>>83003841There is this one identifiable poster you can just recognize from his extremely tight ass here on /osrg/ who has posts like this. his writing style is so consistently mirthless.
>>83005457I used to play with a DM who used hit locations. He would rule that if you got hit by an attack that reduced you to 0 HP and the attack hit somewhere that wasn't your head or torso, you could choose to lose/break the body part instead of taking damage. I found that to be a pretty efficient way to add more variety than just 0 or 100 without using a new discrete mechanic for death and dismemberment. Adding in stuff like different tables for different weapons sounds like way more trouble than it's worth.
>>83005505I'm halfway convinced that him and the "other" guy are just the same person arguing back and forth. Regardless, both of them have the collective IQ of one normal person.
>>83005398And girls spread their legs for him because his OSR genetics are alpha.
>>83005588Women are especially uninterested in old school gaming. I’ve found the more Wargame like an RPG is the less palatable it is to the ladies. I did get my sister to play Necromunda with us back in the 90s. She even painted her own minis. She didn’t come back for the second campaign we ran though.
>>83005562Its not just that, but he talks like a image macro. like a redditer trying really hard to be memey, but in the blandest way possible.
>>83005630your issue was that you played necromunda instead of Mordheim .Necromunda is known women repellent, Mordheim is known women attractant. Its justy science.
>>83005505>>83005562>t. faggots with collective IQ of half a person.>>83005648It sound like you know a lot about Reddit. Maybe you should go back there
>>83000541The “best” retroclone is a copy of the 1981 original game.So play either, there’s no major differenceB4 like an anon said earlier, or B1
>>83005711I’ve been playing wargames and RPGs since the 80s kid. You know, before you were born. Women aren’t as interested in RPGs like men are. Not by a long shot. It’s overwhelmingly a male hobby. Any gaming conventions attendance proves this out. It’s definitely changed a bit by I don’t ever think you will see a even split between men and women.
>>83005685This was long before Mordheim came out.
>>83005754What are you doing in 4chan if you're in your early 50s at best
>>83005686wow, his butthurt posting style doesn't change at all. fascinating. its incredibly consistent.
>>83005798Oh sorry I didn’t know this was for only people under 50. I’ll leave and never come back!
>>83005777I was more just having fun ;)
>>83005754You sound like a retarded 12 year old who just found the hobby.
>>83005798You tard he could have been a kid in tye 80s and not be over 50.
>>83005817You're as young as you feel in your heart, anon :)
>>83005823No one is saying anything mean about women you ass clown. What he is saying is true. It’s not a judgement or condemnation of female players in any way. They just aren’t as common.
>>83005802Or more likely many people calling you stupid is just confusing your simple mind
>>83005830>>83005823You are not allowed to post on 4chan if you are over the age of 18. thats the rules.
Does anyone know of a procedural generation system I don’t care if it’s tables or a website/app etc that makes random magic items/weapons for OSR games?
>>83005864Nah, because the verbiage is pretty consistent :/I dont know why you post here if you dont have any fun.
>>83005830If you were going to cons in the 80s then you should be over 50. Unless your dad was taking you, coming to think of it.
>>83005859You are not saying anything useful dumbass you are a underage moron butthurt at the mere idea of women being a part of OSR.
>>83005897Nah, just your faggotry
>>83005909He didnt say anything of the sort. He said they were less interested. Please take your anger medication senpai, noone is invalidating your existence. You can just look at published adventures from dragon magazine back in the day to see that there were some.
>>83005630Okay, but what does that have to do with anon threatening 5E players with violence?
>>83005891https://www.fantasynamegenerators.com/It mostly has names but it also has some other stuff too
>>83005941If it did not make him buttblasted he would kept his retarded mouth shut.
>>83005930And you are assmad and do nothing but derail the thread every thread. Well at least you did it near the end this time. Should really have a name for you. grumpyfag?
>>83005993>nothing but derail the thread every threadTake your meds. Yelling that only one person is making all the posts that upset you only makes you either crazy, retarded, or both
>>83006060Or part of the problem.
>>83003797Fighters and Thieves are the most common choices. Clerics are a close third. Fighters getting to use bows as well as magic swords as well as better resilience and thac0 progression gives them numerous advantages over the cleric.Demi-humans are gimped by their slow leveling. >>83003853Yes I'm counting Expert too.>>83004046Rulings and house rules are not the same thing.
>>83003554>Moldvay Basic is a perfect systemI laugh every time I see this opinion expressed.
>>83006164But you have no real counterargument.
>>83006060never said he was the only person derailing. just that there is a person in particular that writes in a specific way and is always unbelievably stiff.
>>83006243Statement. You really can't do better.
>>83005691>The “best” retroclone is a copy of the 1981 original game.>retroclone>original?
>>83006264You say after being called out on claiming that person derails every thread.
>>83006359|The “best” retroclone||is a copy||of the 1981 original game|I hope I broke the sentence down easily enough for you to understand
>>83006363You are being myopic. anyone can derail a thread. Im just saying there is a particular person who does it rather consistently and in the same manner.Thats not calling out, thats being obtuse.
What was the issue with Greg, anyway, he just wanted people to play True D&D. There’s nothing wrong with that, right?
>>83006299Statement. There's no point "arguing" with faggy grogs.
>>83006591>faggy grogsDoes not compute. Grogs are all heterosexual males.
>>83006612Then by your own "logic" you are not a grog.
>>83006631Stop being obsessed with homosexuality.
>>83006647Stop being a faggot
>>82997474>>82997544What’s funny is you can tell it’s the real thoughtsfag because his questions are both poorly worded and also incredibly inane and specific Personally compared with other thread shitters I honestly I honestly think he is harmless >>83006441The original greg was replaced by cavegirl and a whole other bunch of shitposter impostors
>>83005713Isle of Dread-anon here. I have considered tweaking rests for precisely this reason, either the amount healed or the time taken to rest.
Yo anyone got a good character generator? Preferably something I can export/plain text i can copy. Bonus points if BFRPG, positive AC, random starter inventory and showing stat modifiers. https://smolderingwizard.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/old-school-rpg-character-generators/The above list is pretty good but none of them are perfect.
>>83007037https://character.totalpartykill.ca/basic/Sorry it's not 5e but hopefully it's not too hard to convert characters from B/X to old-school principles.
>>83007037https://chacowingnut.github.io/delvers/This has been my go-to for a while.
>>83005891This Diablo II style generator is what you seek. Use to be on the WOTC site many years ago. It’s very cool. You have to copy paste the text if it gets chopped off. https://web.archive.org/web/20121220190858/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/D2Demo/full_item_generator.asp
>>83006413But anon, isn't every retroclone copying the original 1981 game :^)?
>>82999212[OC]Mail of the Beautiful A shirt of mountain pattern scale mail trimmed with golden silk, threaded with frayless azure yarn, and its scales made of an iridescent white-gold metal; each scale bears intricate, flourishing engravings of which more are revealed no matter how closely one looks. Wearing the armor obscures from non-magical perception blemishes, scars, and visual imperfections that do not change one’s overall body shape. Its beauty is such that the works of men are loathe to touch it; this armor is +3, as well as reducing damage by 2 per die, against anything made by mortals (virtually all weapons, traps, etc). It offers no protection against things made by the gods (AC 9 versus fists, claws, divine weapons, etc).
>>83007879Yes that’s the point, it doesn’t REALLY matter which one you choose. Just pick one and play