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Welcome to /lbg/, the thread for the discussion of construncted languages ("conlangs") in settings for traditional games.

Here is where you go to present and develop the details of your names, tongues and dialects such as phonology, grammar, relations and history. You can also post maps for your settings, as well as any relevant art (such as calligraphy or poetry either created by yourself or used as inspiration for your work). Please remember that discussion is what keeps a thread alive.

Let's have a thread where we help each other finding names for characters, creatures, places, etc.
Try not to use "automatic instantaneous universal translator or magic spell", and find a better name for Common.
Do you have a system or strategy for naming NPCs?
Do you take inspiration from real life when designing place names?
Do you provide players with a map of your setting? How do you reveal it to them?
>>
>>82969542
This is a neat thread idea but I'm not sure how much traction it's going to get.
>Do you have a system or strategy for naming NPCs?
Male NPCs are more likely to have adjectives or patronyms for names and female NPCs are more likely to have nominative or genitive nouns for names.
>Do you take inspiration from real life when designing place names?
Yeah, in the sense that most irl place names have really plain meanings in their source languages.
>Do you provide players with a map of your setting? How do you reveal it to them?
I don't, mainly because I'm bad at art and we don't use electronics at the table. They draw it from what they learn and what their characters would already know as they go.
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>>82969542
I like this thread. I made my own language ages ago, when I was... 11 or 12. Wrote a full notebook on it. I can still speak it, but it's HORRIBLE. The grammar makes little sense, the words that exist have dozens of meanings (example, anything electronic is the same word and you're supposed to infer it from the sentence, like "I electronic find see" is different from "I electronic remove dust"), and itnwas generally based on a mix of nonsense sounds and languages I know. The writing was random but consistent scribbles. It looked more like a primitive cave language than a good conlang.

>Do you have a system or strategy for naming NPCs?
Yea. I use pre established names that would fit within the inspiration of that country/world along with titles, and if need be, combine and shorten them to make names.

>Do you take inspiration from real life when designing place names?
Yep.

>Do you provide players with a map of your setting? How do you reveal it to them?
Yes and no. There is no "real map". Any time I tried drawing one it looked like crap and not at all what I imagined. That ssid, I use those as variants for in world maps. If they're rich enough they can go and find local maps or stuff to get an idea what it is. I usually just give them a handout. I've made more modern maps as well as old style Japanese maps (pic related).
>>
I’ve found Toki Pona to be a pretty good conlang to crib from. Makes a good base, at least.
>>
>>82970242
>the words that exist have dozens of meanings (example, anything electronic is the same word and you're supposed to infer it from the sentence, like "I electronic find see" is different from "I electronic remove dust"),
So it's like Japanese?
>denwa - phone
>densha - electric train
>denki - electricity
>denpou - telegram
>denshi - electron
>denchi - battery
>denchū - utility pole
>denkyū - lightbulb
>>
>>82969542
>construncted
Cool fake word, OP. Nice consonant clusters. Almost seems like it could be a English word...
>>
>>82969542
Why? It's not like you're writing a novel or tv show.
>>
>>82971189
Why do anything you enjoy, anon?
>>
>>82971219
"Does this actually make the game better for my players? And is this improvement in proportion to the amount of my limited prep time it uses?" are questions you be asking when you do things like this

I don't see how a making a conlang is a good use of a GM's limited prep time, when it's not even a good use of most novelists. It seems like an excuse to not do the boring bits of prep that actually help at the table.
>>
>>82971402
First, the GM is just as much a player as the rest of the group. Making things fun for them is important, but so is making things fun for the GM. If that means that character and place names are unique, then why not?
Secondly, you can make a functional naming language in a few minutes if you aren't retarded. It isn't nearly as intensive as you're making it out to be.
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>>82969542
>>>/lit/
>>
>>82971558
>poster count didn't go up
Anon, I
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>>82971592
Probably this >>82971189 guy.
>>
>>82970353
>it's like Japanese?
It's like every language in the world, weeb.

>Cardiology.
>Cardiovascular.
>Cardiomyopathy.

Japanese is just more agglutinative than others, but it doesn't mean what it looks like you mean.
>>
>>82971767
I used Japanese as the example because he literally mentions Japanese maps in the post you fucking retard
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>>82971592
I don't see the point caring for that.
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>>82971842
Every language have morphemes, that's how language works. It's not a special trait of A language. It's just a trait of language.

"Every words have more meaning" is a general statement so broad that can encapsulate all languages.

To ad on, because i guess i came of mean:

What anon (and you) probably are referring is the agglutinative and isolating degrees of a language.
He's probably thinking of an isolating language, while japanese is agglutinative. (Similar but not the same)

The more Isolating your language is the less morphemes per word, you'll have. Wich is what i think anon is thinking about.
Japanese isn't isolating because (in the example you've provided aswell) you have more than one morpheme in a word, changing the meaning.

>電車 (densha) Electrical train.
>自転車 (Jitensha) Bycicle.

The "sha" in the two word is another small bit of meaning added to the word in an agglutinative way (the morphemes are just stacked together without any changes) rather than isolating (the morphemes are isolated and alone without any change.)
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>>82972110
Whether the morphemes are together or apart doesn't change that what he thought was a clunky part of his conlang is really just an ordinary feature of language.
It could even just be that he doesn't know how glossing works so he left all the words separate. The end result is still the same.
>>
>>82972228
Yes.

But If he thinks what I think he thinks, he's more related to chinese/vietnamese.
He just explained it poorly but that would've been a better example for a language that has one, isolated word that doesn't get changed.

But hey, maybe he's going full Nahuatl autism wizard. I dunno.
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>>82971189
>>82971558
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>>82971029
Oh fuck.
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>>82969542
Of all the tropes Tolkien introduced into the hobby this one is by far the worst.
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>>82975937
t langlet
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>>82972443
>But hey, maybe he's going full Nahuatl autism wizard
Aaaand theres my next PC.
Thanks anon
>>
>>82970353
Kinda? But also there are differences in Japanese. In my conlang there aren't any. At all. The world for electronic device is ehtra. So a computer is an ehtra as is s vacuum as is a hair drier. The sentences, translated into what I made, would be "Yei tai ehtra ouh" and "Nei dal ehtra ouh". Translated it would be "I used the computer to find/torrent a movie" and "I used the vacuum to remove the dust". As you may have noticed it's what is done, with what, and lastly who did it.
>>
>>82971402
I go into retard levels if detail for my world building. 99% of it will never be seen by my players. But it's fun for me to do, fuels and is an outlet for my creativity, and I find fun. If it doesn't suit you, hey, power to ya. If it does, also power to ya. Do what's fun for you.
>>
>>82976099
That doesn't sound too bad. It's pretty close to how Chinese and some Native American languages do things, but with some structural differences
>>
>>82976099
Device. I used a(n electronic) device to accomplish a task. Keep in mind there's LOTS of ways to frame an action.
>>
>>82976158
>>82976159
Sure yea. It's all about context. It does read very primitive. It's not that it's not functional, it probably is. I'm just not a fan of my creation. But it's also missing a lot of actually useful stuff. Time for example is nonexistent. There's no past, present, and future participle. It's all vague. There's no difference between other concepts, like food. You'd have to say you ate animal food to convey you ate a steak or something. And there's no difference between a chicken and a wolf. So you may as well be saying you're eating a wolf or chicken tendies. One thing I did do is have singular, dual, trial, quadral, and plural though.
>>
>>82976334
I know that feel. Then, again, keep in mind the following: many structures we know and expect are actually special to English or European (plus Hungarian) languages in general. Pic related is a map of tenseless languages. See how many, BILLION people make no mention of time other than by adverbs?
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>>82969542
Ages ago I came up with a goblin alphabet in a fit of madness. This is it. Haven't actually started constructing the language itself, but as "my" goblins have a vaguely Southeast Asian influence on their culture it'd probably sound something like a mixture of languages from that part of the world (mainly Tagalog, Malay and Indonesian). I do have a very rough idea of some concepts behind the language though, specifically an emphasis on relatively short words and a very structured but basic grammar system. So for example, "evil eye" translating as "ogg-maal" (or literally "eye of evil").
>>
>>82969542
Hey, I’m coming up with a runic magic system, what advice do you have for coming up with elemental runes, especially the shapes (besides doing the obvious, like making ice runes look like snowflakes, etc., of course)? Do you have any things that you wished more runic magic systems had? Someone else I asked suggested runes that can focus and direct the affects of other runes, do you agree with them?
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>>82976511
I'm always surprised with how lacking English is. It's so... bare.
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>>82980677
>English
>bare
Surely you jest
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>>82980314
What does that have to do with making a languages, Bumpfag?
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>>82981232
I'm starting to think *the* bumpfag doesn't exist.
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>>82982618
I know how you wriggle out of definitively saying that you're not yourself.
>>
>>82981232
Runic symbols are a kind of alphabet. What, you couldn’t use Google to find that out?
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>>82971189
Game dev here, I actually will need to develop a shitton of (rudimentary) languages at some point, for a grand strat I'm working on, so I'm glad this thread showed up.
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>>82976511
Yea, but they still have adverbs or context to indicate it. My language has none. Doing it yesterday or tomorrow or doing it now sre all the same. There's not even time as a concept in the language. No clocks or minutes or years as words. It'd be a relatively easy fix, but I'd need to go in and actually do a lot to it. Something I'm honestly not too interested in. Partially because, despite my dislike, it is a product of that part of my life. I'd rather create a new language honestly.
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>>82970320
>mani
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>>82971189
>>82971402
One of the purposes of this thread is making a naming system.
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>>82983317
You're not talking about making a language. You're asking for MMO spells and the icons to attach to them.
>>
>>82980314
>>82983317
>>82984263
Bind runes are a kind of sigil. Take the letters, which have inherent meanings in addition to their sound value, and combine them. IIRC the Germanic peoples believed in ice vs. fire.
>>
>>82984306
>tfw no English mixed logography descended from scribes using bind runes as shorthand
Why even live?
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>>82969542
What settings have the best conlangs? Hard mode: no Tolkien.
>>
>>82985617
The Second Apocalypse
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>>82983436
(Sina)
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>>82980314
> get a 6x6 grid
> start at the first unconnected dot and roll a d10
> draw a line from the starting dot to the dot indicated on the result
> don’t draw a line on a 0 or duplicate (aka rolling a 1 on the first dot)
> move to the next unconnected dot and repeat the rolling process

You get a lot of garbage, but it can turn out some unique stuff. Bonus rules: lines can connect but not intersect. You could probably use unique configurations of the starting grid to create different trends of symbols, for element specific runes.
>>
>>82986335
Also I meant 3x3, but am retarded
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>>82969542
Quick question, how many words does a con lang needs to be "real" or "complete". Without counting verb conjugations
>>
>>82988464
Depends on what you want to do with it. A naming language might only need about a dozen words and some bare grammar for a story but some people have conlangs with 25k words and still don't feel like they're finished with them.
>>
>>82988464
Most have a 5k for 95% rule except English (which has a 100k for 99%, allegedly).
>>82988581
This. Names are predictable. So a rudimentary "words with good or awesome meanings" list ought be enough.
>>
>>82988464
English has 170000 or so words.
Some tiny African langs barely break 1000.
Toki Pona has 120 words and you can still sort of hold a conversation in it if you're used to it.
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>>82989723
Jesus, this is literally just Newspeak.
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>>82986335
Awesome.
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>>82989871
Apparently the creator was depressed af at the time, so it’s less of a Machiavellian plot and more of a cry for help.
>>
>>82985987
Why’s that? I’m totally unfamiliar with it.
>>
>>82969542
Honestly, this is the worst thread I've seen in a while. Not only is it starting with the premise of introducing another mindless general thread series, but its on a subject that /tg/ is absolutely brainless on. There's no reason to encourage more monolingual armchair linguists with no real understanding of language applauding themselves for something which is either fake as shit, prevalent everywhere but they think is original, or never will be able to use in a way which benefits their games at all.
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>>82992180
I guess I just like the languages in it. They feel very real (although they are mostly just names, not full fledged languages). But I could say that about Tolkien's languages as well (since I never cared to delve into whatever appendix contains the entirety of elvish or whatever, they may as well just be names too) so I figure that's a good enough reason.
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>>82989723
> English has 1,700,000 words
How many of those are compound words, though? Maybe you'd be surprised how rarely you go outside the 1000 most-common English words (excepting names, of course).
>>
>>82993739
Good point. What are some obscure words that you wish saw more use?
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>>82989723
>170000 or so words.
That’s insane.
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>>82969542
>OP posts a thread but doesn't post his own stuff
How suspicious
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>>82969542
What are some good limitations for magic systems based on a specific language, to keep someone who knows it from being too OP? Obviously there’s how many words someone actually knows, and how much energy they provide for the spell, like in Eragon, but what else can we do?
>>
>>82980677
Isolating languages like Chinese are even more so, but they make up for it more than enough.
>>82980789
"Bareness" of English is "made up" with an effective doubling of vocabulary.
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>>83003660
What do you think English grammar is lacking, exactly?
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>>82969542
What inspirations can we take from IRL history when designing our languages?
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>>82980677
>>83003660
English and Chinese are two of the most efficient languages there are, linguistically speaking. They can both convey meaning with far fewer phonemes than most other languages. I've heard that because of Chinese languages' tone system they have to be spoken slightly slower than other languages to keep the sounds distinct, meaning that as a spoken language English is maybe the most efficient major language in the world.
>>
>>83006984
Would fusional languages not be more efficient since they jam multiple pieces of information into single morphemes? Like como, comí, comía, and comeré vs I eat, I ate, I was eating, and I will eat. I realize some of these are the same number of syllables but the point is you can use fewer words, which I feel would probably result in greater efficiency overall.
I think the benefit of analytical languages like Chinese and English is ease of learning, although Chinese specifically fucks that up by being tonal and using logographs. So that leaves English being the champion of quick acquisition, which is probably more important for a lingua franca than efficiency.
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>>82969542
What are the pros and cons of writing systems like Japanese Kanji vs what I'm currently using?
>>
>>83008021
What are you using, retarded Bumpfag?
>>
So uh
How do I make a language?
>>
>>83001729
In Tome of Magic (3.5E) there was a system called Truespeak where you do magic by speaking the language of creation. The thing is, it's extremely difficult to pronounce correctly, and highly contextual. This was represented by having to make a skill check to speak any "utterance", and the more times you used a given utterance in a day, the harder the check got as reality was stretched further and further from its natural state.
So long as you have a functioning skill system, that seems like it should be a usable concept.
>>
>>83004644
I love the rich inventory of ideomimetics found in Japanese. I'm interested in the idea of a language where most or all of the morphemes are ideomimetic, so on some level, every word sounds like what it means.

>>83007208
Depends on how you define efficiency. Are you talking about how much information you can get per syllable/phoneme, or how much function you can add to your language per unit of vocabulary? You could just invent a new monosyllabic word for every treatment of every concept, but that leaves you with a massive dictionary to memorize. Alternatively, you could have a minimal lexicon, but you'll probably have to use combinations of words to get a complex idea across.

>>83008021
A system like Kanji takes up little space, and can possibly look like the concepts it addresses, but you have to memorize thousands of symbols, and it's more difficult to implement technologically. A printing press or typewriter with 3000 keys probably won't be practical.

>>83008214
Step one is to decide what you want the language for. How did it come about? Who uses it? What do those people talk about? What are their beliefs and values? What is their environment like? Do they interface with other cultures? Are they literate? What is their technology like?
Answering questions like these helps you figure out what you need the language to be like, what sounds to use, how to organize concepts, and so on.
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>>82969542
assuming you want to collect interesting links and shit, and not just shit-and-runposting, there's a website I've found that will at least take a number of particles and create words out of those, over at DialectCreator.com. It's really interesting to be able to choose a bunch of syllables to mix and match in order to give a language the feel you're looking for. Check it out, if you give a shit. Or don't. I'm not your parents.
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>>83008330
Sounds pretty neat. What happened if you failed?
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>>83007208
>Would fusional languages not be more efficient since they jam multiple pieces of information into single morphemes?
No, the opposite in fact. There tends to be a lot of redundancy. Spanish is one of the least efficient major languages. For example, it insists that if you want to say 'The girl is fast and beautiful' both fast and beautiful have to match endings with girl, so you say 'La chica es rápida y hermosa' instead of 'La chic es rápid y hermos'
>>
>>82999999
>>83000000
In Germans, repeating digits are an occasion to drink alcohol. The alcohols in question is Schnapps, which sounds a lot like the verb zu schnappen, to snatch or to get.
>>
>>83013159
Wow. Why does anyone still speak it the long way then?
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>>83013159
>>83016188
When you have two people in one sentence you match the endings of the related words together, giving more information about which adjective connects to which noun. Error correction, like a parity bit, although only useful some of the time.
Language development is a constant push and pull between laziness (being easy and fast to say), clarity (being audible across a room), simplicity (not being too complicated to learn), random drift, status and culture issues, etc. and that's how it ended up in romance (Latin derived) languages.
>>
Would a substituion cypher conpidgin works?

Rules.
1-Someone makes a program is able to create a substitution cypher version of a text. The program would be able to create a random cypher key that you can copy and will MUST use later.
2-Users of this language must pick a language they can speak. Lets call it X
3-People can only speak this language X or the conpidgin itself.
3.1-While speaking the language X they must put the language at the cypher program to generate the text, they will post.
4-If a phrase is understood by everyone, it is perfect conpidgin language, even if it was unusually constructed. If no-one understands a phrase, it is by definition not conpidgin, even if it used a lot of conpidgin grammar and vocabulary.
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>>83008452
>what the language is for
Hoenstly? To come up with a completely "alien" mindset, some totally out there thought and logic process that makes SOME intuitive sense, but at a glance, is completely nonsensical. And the best, thorough method I can think of to create this is to build a language system
>>
>>83017070
A syntax structure that is wide instead of deep might work. That is, instead of clauses the language would organize information by similarity instead of linearity.
>the cat sat on the couch and the dog chased its tail
>the cat the dog the couch its tail on sat chased
>>
>>83017234
Or the word order is based on number of letters, syllables, morae or some other meta-grammatical attribute of the words instead of more natural categories.
>>
>>82969542
Agreed with first post. This is my passion so I don't even care if the thread was made with ulterior motives, but something tells me it'll be about as successful as the cartography generals people have tried.

I haven't read the thread yet so I don't know if someone's already brought this up, but if this is going to be a regular thing we should have some resources for the OP. /wbg/ has some conlang-related resources, and there are also general useful resources we could include, like The Art of Language Invention, The Language Construction Kit and various YouTube channels. ConLang is the generally-accepted term, rather than Language Building, so CLG might make more sense than LBG. And anyway, if I mess up typing it, I'd rather it look like /cgl/ than /lgbt/.

>Do you have a system or strategy for naming NPCs?
It's all language-driven. I feel like most people who enter this thread would have a similar answer. Anyway, different languages have different affixes, usually at the beginning or end of words, that connote either men, women or neither, and most names have either positive connotations (from cultures in which names represent a wish for the child; Many think of names like Star, Prudence, Chastity, Candy and so on as a modern convention, but they're culturally ubiquitous and most "traditional" names have similar meanings, just in older languages) or descriptive connotations (like many words meaning "violent" or "warrior" or "strong" for soldiers). The latter are more common in cultures or the descendants of cultures where people take a different name when they come of age, like many Native American, ancient Germanic and Chinese cultures. Over time the meaning of those names is forgotten, but the names will be preserved in those chosen primarily for their sound and familiarity rather than their meaning. Gods and people in those cultures will tend to have meaningful names that fit their person; Everyone else will have arbitrary or "positive" names.
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>>83017636
>Over time the meaning of those names is forgotten, but the names will be preserved in those chosen primarily for their sound and familiarity rather than their meaning. Gods and people in those cultures will tend to have meaningful names that fit their person; Everyone else will have arbitrary or "positive" names.
This is mostly an English thing, or languages that aren't Hebrew using biblical names.
>>
>>82970353
No, it's more like English.
>run - walk quickly
>run - function correctly
>run - flow like liquid
>run - a path along which things move
>run - a period of time spent in transit
>run - a period of time spent attempting something
etc. The only common thread is that meanings that involve movement tend to be simply expressed as "run," with context used to discern which of the hundred or so definitions you mean, by far one of the most bizarre yet still-functional parts of the English language. What you're giving examples of would be agglutination (which in English with a root that is usually defined as a verb or noun would usually use a common suffix rather than prefix, though we've inherited a lot of Romantic words that are the other way around), like moverun, workrun, fluidrun, runpath, transrun and speedrun- We use that one but just for videogames, because gamers are the next evolution of mankind and have more developed brains, of course. Totally different thing from what Anon was talking about (that said if someone actually spoke his language, where "run" situations are apparently everywhere, it would probably gradually come to resemble Navajo, where words are basically sentences describing the concept, like infamously the word for a military tank is a long compound word meaning "metal box crawls, throws explosions, man sits up inside it").

>>82971029
>fake word
Awl wordsre jus soshal construncts anyways.

>>82971558
We're here to talk about creating fictional settings and pretend we play tabletop, not ask who is John Galt and pretend we read Ulysses. Entirely different board cultures.
>>
>>82976334
If you actually made it when you were 11 or 12 and it's speakable it's impressive regardless. The magical command language I invented when I was 12 was just total gibberish and essentially a gloss of English nouns and adjectives that I came to by meditating and speaking in tongues. The only one I remember is wind, "kodmuzu," meaning moving air. No attention paid to the fact that the English word "wind" has a very satisfying history, in that it comes from the proto-indo-european root hwhe, which is just a person making a wind sound with their mouth.

>>83003660
If you're just saying it's "bare" because English sentences are shorter, that's kind of retarded to phrase as "English is bare." It's precisely because we have words for more precise concepts that would take multiple words to express in other languages, because we use almost every phoneme a human mouth is capable of forming and because we borrow grammatical and word structures from other languages that English sentences can be "efficient."

>>83008101
He's doing that thing where he just copies posts from earlier threads, so there's no answer because it's a non-sequitur. Might even be his bot.
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>>82988464
Practical answer? Technically all a language, even a natlang, needs are the words you plan to use, and it can be left to assumption that there are other words, they just don't show up within the exposed content. That goes for real languages too- The average vocabulary of an English-speaking adult is about 20000 words, but many supposedly have a working vocabulary of only 2000 or so words they will ever speak, and something of a vocabulary (as in they kind of understand) of about 10000-20000 words, while English itself has anywhere from 100K to 2M words depending on how you define a "word" (eg is every version of "run" a unique word? What about hotdog or website? Are calculate and calculator different words? If you consider them different words, what about "walk" and "walked" and "walks"? Or "throw" and "threw"?) and how you define when a word has become part of a language (eg is sushi an English word? What about façade? Obviously the first is a Japanese word and the second is a French word, but at what point do they become loanwords that are also considered to be English? Most English speakers know the meaning of both words but most English speakers would scoff if you said "sushi is an English word" and correct you that it was Japanese, so it's clearly a difficult question to answer objectively; not to mention "technical" terms usually based on but absent from dead languages, that might be used as an international standard but usually come from English-speaking countries, like "cyanocobalamin" (the chemical name for vitamin B12) or "aluminum" (the original, British spelling btw, though now chiefly used only in the US and Canada; now the Brits and others call it aluminium, and is that another word? It's not just another spelling, it has an entire extra syllable)). Otherwise others' answers are valid.
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>>83007208
Interestingly English is the perfect example of something that is "easy to learn, hard to master" in terms of language. While a lot of people are multilingual and speak at least two languages as well as a native, people who speak English as a second language or later are almost always painfully obvious about it because the language is full of so many opportunities to fuck up things most native speakers "just get" (one of the quirkiest is English adjective order, something that to my knowledge is not commonly taught in any country and that most languages lack, but native speakers pick up on subconsciously.

Yet you can usually figure out what they're trying to say, even if their grammar is TOTALLY wrong and someone speaking, say, Spanish that badly would be incomprehensible. Redundancy in English means even if they use a word's antonym (and a lot of less-intelligent or more autistic native English speakers are also prone to doing just that), you can USUALLY figure out what they actually mean with verbal rather than strictly situational context. Easy to learn, hard to master.

>>83008214
There's no well-defined order and it's hard to say what the "best" order would be beyond how we start developing language naturally by forming easy mouth sounds to get our parents' attention. Though with that point in mind, languages in completely unrelated language families still almost always have variants of baba, mama and/or papa (the lip-based sounds and the schwa, the simplest vowel sound) for father and mother, though sometimes papa means mother for example and sometimes the leftover one means a grandparent. Our own English words father and mother come from distorted versions of papa and mama (by way of pater, "one who acts as a male parent," and mater, "one who acts as a female parent," proto-indo-european and later Latin words) respectively.
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>>83019041
Regardless, you are at least going to need a grammar, the most important element of which is word order (which is usually based on the placement of the Subject, Verb and Object, as permutations of S, V and O; some words can modify word order, though, and for example English is usually SVO (the boy (S) threw (V) the ball (O)) but has a common passive voice in which the subject is placed in the object position (the ball (O) was thrown by (V) the boy (S)) and even has more esoteric voices like the "Yoda speak" (thrown (V) by the boy (S) the ball was (O))). Not all languages even have verbs, and objects are usually optional, though (the boy (S) vomited (O)). And there are other kinds of word order, like whether adjectives come before or after the word (which can also be subverted with a poetic voice in English, eg "the mountains high" as opposed to "the high mountains").

That's all the easiest shit to decide on, though, and you might imagine a primitive man trying to communicate concepts when you decide how your word order is formed (and a less-primitive man trying to get laid with fancy-talk when you think about the exceptions to the rule, if there are any). Lexicon is either the hardest or easiest part depending on how much you care, and it would take several posts to even give a basic primer on it, so I'll say just look for some conlang resources. A script (writing system) is what I'd advise doing last; Most are initially based on pictures of what they mean, which come to stand for related abstract concepts (eg an eye for knowledge) and eventually get simplified into logos, and from there often come to stand for the first sound in the word, in which case you start to get an abjad, abugida or alphabet. Featural languages (ie languages where the script makes sense because each symbol has features related to how you make the sound) are actually rare outside of vowel-symbols, yet most conlangers gravitate to them, so I say avoid them.
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>>83014028
based

>>83016188
Prevents misunderstandings. If a car honked its horn as you said to me "chica" in "la chica es rapid y hermos" I might think you were saying "chico" and punch you for being gay. Or if you said "la perra es rapid y hermos" and the car honked its horn when you said "perra" I might think you were being a chat and talking about the car and not a furry talking about the bitch since I didn't hear the noun, while rapida y hermosa would clarify you were talking about the female perra and not the male carro, so I wouldn't know to punch you for fucking dogs. Redundancy just helps make your meaning clearer through context if one word gets misheard. The far opposite extreme is Ithkuil, a virtually unusable conlang where every sound you make has a distinct meaning. Most languages at least have redundancy within words (eg vowels aren't actually necessary for most languages but we use them anyway, so if there's a female dog running past when I call the beach fast [presumably I'm having a mental breakdown when I say this] and beautiful, you don't think I'm saying the bitch is fast and beautiful and punch me for fucking dogs).
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>>83019136
>being a chat
*chad
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I made some Draconic words and phrases for a game I'm in. Mostly made up harsh sounding phonemes ascribed values with some internal consistency for some Frankenwords. The main thing was that it was a negative-based language, with a lot of words being "not-opposite," and the default being more pessimistic.

So like, the word for me was the same word for 1. The word for you was "not-me." The word for happy was "not-angry," the word for good was "not-bad."

I also made fifteen different words for fighting and surrender a Common loanword.
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>>83019001
>we use almost every phoneme a human mouth is capable of forming
That is far from true but we do use more than most.
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>>83022799
Weird. Why exactly is that?
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>>83022794
>fifteen different words for fighting
Why so many?
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>>83018959
The original poster of that language. You are kind of correct except in this case walk, run, sprint, jaunt, etc. would all be one word and would be defined by speed. So "I walk fast" would be either a fast walk or a jog or a run or a sprint. And tank would be "big weapon machine". Which could also really describe an airplane bomber if you add flying to it.

>>83019001
It's speakable, if not good. It would be easy to learn, though to convey anything would take a pretty long time. Though words for me, you, and him do exist. No gender. But again, number is a thing. So singular "I" would be ouh, dual would be ouha, trial would be ouhy, quadral would be ouhs, and plural would be ouhx. It's just the suffix -a, -y, -s, and -x (pronounced like ks). There's no real reason for these suffixes except I found them cool and easy. So same with machine. Ehtra, ehtraa (pronoinced like a-a), ehtray (like a-e), ehtras, and ehtrax.
There's also no multiple sounds for letters. A is always a, never á or à. There's no é, ë, ö, or other such sounds. It also uses 31 letters, using English and includes the slavic č (ch), š (sh), and ž (zh). Used to have 35 with uh, nj, the Russian lj, Slavic đ (like j in jail where j in like y in yes), and the Arabic gh (غ, pronounced from the back of your throat). The first three were removed due to being compound (which thinking on it I really should have removed č, š, ž, and q as well for that). Đ was removed for plain not fitting. And the last is weird because the language mostly uses the mouth rather than the throat, and sounds like you're hacking up a hairball.

>>83022794
Skyrim Draconic is actually one of my favorite conlangs, if it isn't fully complete canonically. It would be interesting to speak as well. Mostly because the word/prefix not would be the most used word.
>>
Does anyone make use of Swadesh lists? I found it quite fun to fill one out, but how useful are they really? I think it helped me find the feel and sounds of my language quite nicely, but I'd like to hear your experiences.
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>>83024304
It's more convenient not having to discern between a lot of very similar sounds. That said, there are a few outlier languages with huge phoneme inventories of 100+ different consonants (compared to English and its already kinda big set of about 20)
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>>82970067
>I don't, mainly because I'm bad at art and we don't use electronics at the table. They draw it from what they learn and what their characters would already know as they go.
Sensible. Easier to say when someone's entering an area.
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Test. Want to see if letters show.
Łiŋan ḫol daǧał'a'? Ǧiyaǧbe'. Dočveł višoplaḫbe'. Biluġbe'. Bortaš bir ǧablu'di' reḫ ḥaḥqu' naiʼ. Ḫeġlu'meḫ ḥaḥ ǧaǧvam.
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>>82989871
Newspeak was enforced, so that is a big difference
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>>82989871
Sapir-Whorf is a load of crap, and so will be anything derived from it.
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>>83029652
Why though?
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>>83025117
Because it's reflective of a warrior culture. Draconic isn't just spoken by Dragons, and language doesn't stagnate. It's the distinction between a quarrel, a brawl, and a duel, but even moreso.
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>>83031190
Okay, what are these fifteen words for fighting then? Post em.
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>>83032023
I feel like it's going to be like duel-quarrel-fisticuff-etc. Ironically enough, it's English that has more words for snow than Inuit.
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>>83029652
When you grow up multilingual.
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>>83022799
Nah, if you include just the dialects spoken in the British Isles it really is almost every phoneme. If you're only going off of RP or something then you're correct, we use far from all of them, though still more than most (for instance even not including dialects we use many rare or usually-mutually-exclusive sounds, like both the alveolar and the velar n, the alveolar and the velar r (with an occasional flap on the alveolar), voiced and unvoiced th, l, aspirated forms of every single consonant (and aspiration is another of those things most english speakers do without consciously realising it, where for instance the t in "talk" is aspirated but the t in "rebuttal" is not), etc). We're a bit unusual actually in that we have every approximant or liquid that the mouth can make in our language (though we don't distinguish between all of them consciously and therefore even in most pronunciation guides), yet we never use any of them as vowels (even though you definitely can- consider for instance the words "brown" and "born," and then ask yourself why English speakers struggle to say "brn" without adding a schwa either before or after the r, though many other languages do use approximants like either form of r as vowels).

Once you include every English dialect or accent, of course, we have a complete or nearly-complete inventory of mouth-sounds, barring a few rare oddballs like lingual clicks, salival sloshing and the bilabial fricative ("fart sound"), and even those appear in some dialects (the bilabial fricative appears in chicano english for example) if you're loose on how you define a "valid" english dialect.
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>>83029652
Except the weak form (the form people discuss and the only form most people have ever taken seriously) has been definitively proven in several fields and never debunked in the vast majority, just as the strong form has been definitively debunked across the board.
>strong form: you literally cannot contemplate ideas that are not present in your language (it doesn't even take experimentation to contradict this; languages themselves could not grow without the ability to conceive of extralingual things; there's really no need to go into more detail on this one because we are all clearly in agreement here)
>weak form: your language subtly affects the way you think about nearly everything, from politics (words may have connotations, even down to the phonaesthetics, that create a bias against certain concepts, eg "fascist" sounds like a negative word to anglophones because it starts with an f and ends with a plosive, like other negative terms like fuck, fad, fag, faggot, fart, flop and so on; words that lack either of these traits, like final, firm, farther, fellow, aunt, lock, romp, lend and so on do not necessarily sound negative to anglophones, but practically all f--plosive words do) to colour perception/recollection (it has been experimentally verified that even in sample populations that score equally on colour acuity tests, a Russian is better than an American or Brit at picking out a cyan-blue hue they were shown one hour earlier from a list of multiple choices, simply because most Americans and Brits do not have commonly-used words for as many distinct blue hue families as Russians) to philosophy (while ideas that lie outside of an individual's linguistic boundaries CAN occur to that individual, they are statistically less likely to do so; most great thinkers are multilingual, regardless of whether multilinguality ever serves an external purpose in their life).
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>>82984907
&
J
W are all basically bind runes. So is æ and œ in other languages.
Bind runes aren't so much "sigils" as they are just shorthand. Remember, runes were mostly carved into stone, so any strokes you could take off would make your job easier.
>>
bump
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>>83032775
>it's English that has more words for snow than Inuit.
Okay, back up this claim please.
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>>83037281
>yet we never use any of them as vowels
True, yet it's not like English is short on vowel sounds either, there are about 21-ish that vary greatly by accent.
>bilabial fricative ("fart sound")
I would call that the bilabial trill. Fricative would be just the 'f' sound when you go 'pffffff' as a sighing sound.
>nearly-complete inventory of mouth-sounds
As large as practical, I would say -- there's a whole bunch of unused uvular/glottal stuff, affricates, the lateral fricative from Welsh, ejectives and implosives, but it depends on how weird you want to get; none of those are very common as far as I know.
But overall, yeah, English is big and complex in terms of sounds.
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>>83038041
>&
>J
I’m a little confused here, are you saying that there’s other letters or just J and &?
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>>83044261
He's saying the characters &, J and W are all bind runes if we define "bind rune" as "a single symbol comprised of two combined symbols." W is VV (double u, just the way we pronounce it; v and u used to be a single letter), J isn't actually a bind rune but a swashed I (same with j to i; if there were multiple I's in a row, the last one would be swashed), and & was originally a combination of E and T (which are the letters comprising the Latin word "et," meaning "and," for example as in "et cetera," meaning "and the rest," which is still sometimes abbreviated &c), which has been so distorted over time because of cursive configurations and font flourishes that it usually does not look recognisable as two combined letters (though you can kind of see it in this font for example, where it's a rounded E and a T that's tilted to the left).
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>>83044754
>>83038041
>Bind runes
The word you're looking for here is ligatures
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>>83047507
Neither of us was saying that's actually what they're called. Somebody expressed that they wished English had quirky combined characters that came from handwritten shorthand (presumably because it would be more interesting), conflating the idea with Norse bind runes, and someone else pointed out that it does, in fact, already have exactly that. Someone else asked for clarification on what he said, and I explained the characters he was calling "bind runes."
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>>82969542
>>82970067
Study word structure itself, then create a library of root words with clearly described meanings, then build from there. Let's say for example that the root of the english word book is now -bk or -bik, and that the cognate for singular is -can or -cn, this might mean then that instead of 'book' we say 'bikkan' or 'biccan' or 'bekkan' or 'bokkon', depending on which offshoot language we are now speaking. An understanding of philology is essential to language building.
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>>83049281
>An understanding of philology is essential to language building.
I feel the ghost of JRRT here... not that I disagree.
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>>83049281
>reply to the first two posts
>dude just learn so you can try
>gives basic example of adding noun case to words
Wild
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>>82984249
Okay, someone has to say it. Much as I love Tolkien, I think the Tengwar are ugly.
- that big "T"-looking letter for L
- the overuse of doubled loops and bars to make a pedantic point about phoenetics at the expense of legibility
- diacritical marks for vowels is such a cliché
- worst of all is the cluster of three dots for "A": it's showy and unaesthatic, like little clusters of hemmorhoids
- overly faux-Celtic calligraphy looks like a Christmas card
I give it 2 / 10, would not inscribe.
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>>82985617
Clockwork Orange, me droogie. Nadsat's a dobby yazhick, a guff to govoreet should you kopat in the gulliver.
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>>83037484
>"fascist" sounds like a negative word to anglophones because it starts with an f and ends with a plosive
Which is exactly the kind of nonsense bullshit Sapir-Whorf adherents gobble down uncritically. Fascism sounds like a negative word because it was an extremely negative thing, not because we're all secretly hypnotised by phonemes. Plenty of quite wonderful and wonderful-sounding things start with an F and end with a plosive, like a ferret and feast and fruit.
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>>83049400
[spooky nietzsche noises]
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>>83049684
I can almost guarantee that the example represents prudish old linguists with a distaste for the word "fuck", too
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>>83049684
>here are a few minor exceptions
>therefore phonaesthetics aren't real
>because "feast" is used in a positive sense, decades of experimental verification are overturned
You're utterly delusional. The sins of communism are greater than the sins of fascism, but far more people are still willing to identify as communists.
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>>83049523
Well, yeah, nothing about that is actually wrong but I like how it looks vaguely familiar as some fictional ancient Latin script, and how it's suited to writing by hand a lot more than many other conlang scripts I've seen, which look like a robot pooped fractals onto the screen. That font does suck though, the L is far too big and letters are too spaced, Telcontar is much nicer.
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>>83049748
Ah yes, the word you yell when you're hurt or something goes horribly awry or that precedes "you" as an expression of pointed anger is only negative in the eyes of prudish old linguists because it also means to violently penetrate a sexual partner, and only a prude would think there was anything wrong with sexual violence, since anything sexual is automatically A-okay, from rape to child molestation to consensual sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation. Thank you for setting me straight, genius.
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>>83041417
Most of the blarglefroop about "number of words" is nonsense without rigid criteria about what constitutes a "word in the language".
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>>83049752
Aww, so the wanna-be basement fascist also gets pissy when their theory is easily demolished by looking at actual examples. Poor baby.
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>>83049796
>*tips phonology chart*
Top tier assumptions
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>>83049784
That's a good fair point Anon -- I do see the resemblance to like a nice Carolingian minuscule (pic related)
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>>83049796
When /pol9k/ has melted your brain so bad you can't form a coherent sentence.
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>>83041417
Not him but it's not hard to google
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/10-more-words-for-snow/skift
The number of Inuit words for snow is ambiguous because that's like saying European words for snow- It's more than one language. However, there are a very large number of words for snow used by the Inuit people, and as in many European languages including English, most of the different words refer to snow with different physical qualities that are important to the daily life of people living in snowy areas. In English, for example, "sleet" is snow comprised of small pellets ice along with rain that freezes on contact with a surface, while "graupel" is snow that falls in round white pellets instead of flakes or grains, and each produces very different travel conditions.

>>83049883
>if you're not a communist you're a fascist
>if you recognise cultural trends that create a negative bias toward something, you have a positive bias toward it
>trends are completely disproven by exceptions or outliers
>feast sounds like a good thing because I like to eat!
Smell those fumes. That's some good classic sophistry, just like mama used to bake. Inhale the foul odor. Savor this vile feast.
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>>83049752
>a few minor exceptions
fantastic
fascinated
fleet
fulfilled
favored
feat
fellowship
fluent
finest
flamboyant
futuristic
far-sighted
freed
fortunate
phoenetic
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>>83050041
All dreadful, dreadful words
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>>83050015
>>83050050
(You)
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>>83050121
That was just my impression of the poor lad
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>>83050041
Most of these are compound or modified words, which, as you know, unreasonably stretches the parameters given.
>fantastic (fantasy)
>fulfilled (fulfill)
>fleet (flee, assuming you mean "fleet" as in "fast or agile," the form with a positive connotation)
>favored (favor)
>fellowship (fellow)
>finest (fine)
>futuristic (future)
>far-sighted (far)
>freed (free)
>fortunate (fortune)
Some of those are also long enough to defy the standards that apply to compact monosyllabic and disyllabic words, as is one other, flamboyant (though the connotations of flamboyant are generally negative anyway, it probably has little bearing on the perception of those phonaesthetic qualities either way). These are the remainder:
>feat
>fluent
>phonetic (has a root word, phonic, but it also meets the conditions)
Of these, one has neutral connotations (phonic/phonetic). Fleet also fits if you mean a fleet of ships, but that is also a neutral connotation. So in short, you have provided only two exceptions: Feat and fluent.

Most of the exceptions (which are genuine exceptions- I do not think "feast" has a positive or pleasant sound at all, as a native English speaker, though it certainly has generally positive connotations, and "ferret" as a verb tends to be negative while as a noun it's a small foul-smelling mammal) probably have some kind of common phonetic thread that forms consistent exceptions to the rule, except in cases where the word is borrowed from another language and has an overwhelmingly positive definition (for example if in a hypothetical world the word "fuck" came from Russian and meant "happy and serene"). However, I can't think of any. Feast and feat both have a long i vowel, as does feed, though freak does as well. Flood, flick, fleck, flop and flip all have negative connotations while flint and flap are neutral.
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>>83050191
If you mean you posted >>83050050 to imitate the incel anon above, you fooled me. :-)

I shouldn't tease. Poor dude probably has a condition.
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>>83050320
The inability to practice pattern recognition is a sign of low IQ and not something you should wear with pride, you know.
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>>83050286
You're pulling those positive and negative out of a hat -- "ferret" for instance is a very positive word -- and making up new distinctions like "no compounds or modifications" allowed for no discernable reason.

Which is ironic because the original example given by the Sapir-Worf incel was "fascist", itself a modification of "fascism" which is a modification of "fasces" -- and these last two don't end in a plosive.

So your wall of text boils down to: Sapir-Worf is supported iff you dismiss all contrary evidence with arbitrary evidence that you didn't apply to the original assignments. Whoop-de-do.
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>>83050372
Fucked status:
>irrevocably
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>>83050337
Talking like that is really not going to make us stop laughing at you, anon.
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>>83050372
>and making up new distinctions like "no compounds or modifications" allowed for no discernable reason.
If the word "love" is perceived as positive, the words "loved," "lover," "beloved," "loving" and so on will be perceived as positive too. If the word "fuck" is perceived as negative, the word "fucker" will be, too. This makes intuitive sense to people who have basic communication skills, but evidently not to you.

>the original example given by the Sapir-Worf incel was "fascist", itself a modification of "fascism" which is a modification of "fasces"
Fasces is the root but does not exist in common English. Fascist and fascism entered the lexicon simultaneously.

>Sapir-Worf is supported iff you dismiss all contrary evidence with arbitrary evidence that you didn't apply to the original assignments.
Your assessment would only be valid if I EVER, at any point, either stated or implied that any phonaesthetic trend was an absolute inviolable rule. What you are doing is equivalent to responding to someone saying, "In general, the more weight you gain as anything but leg muscle, the lower your maximum running speed will be," with the rebuttal, "At 207 pounds, Usain Bolt weighs more than me, but he runs faster than me, so you're wrong." I only stated that new words that are coined or enter the language with similar phonetic patterns to existing words which tend to have either positive or negative connotations will tend to be perceived in a more positive or negative light than they otherwise would be. You are also focusing on this single point out of three made because it is the only one in which you (incorrectly) think you can poke holes by listing exceptions. One of the other three is not even soft science but experimentally verified, on the other hand:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1876524/
If you have further complaints, please get in touch with those researchers and leave me out of it.
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>>83050611
Thank fuck, it's over
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>>83050650
>aw man, he was really starting to make me feel bad about my inability to distinguish between descriptive and prescriptive rules :^(
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>>83050668
Yeah, but only ironically
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>>83050611
> argument by strained analogy
> introducing yet more new criteria which you fail to apply to your own evidence
> repeates "experimentally verified" for the fiftieth time like it's magic, doesn't provide evidence
> links to random unrelated article on color distinction -- an article which was disproven by later research: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32276236/
> still thinks that proves people only dislike fascism because of that troublesome final plosive -- oh wait, fascism doesn't end in a plosive, but hey, the variant "fascist does"

Pro-tip: you'll humiliate yourself less next time by conceding gracefully (see >>83049948 for how it's done), or if you don't have the balls then just close the browser window.
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>>83049883
>>83050121
>>83050320
>>83050447
Dude, this is almost good enough for Reddit. We don't even need any more receipts.
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>>83049752
I like how in Polish, the term for national socialism and communism, fascism and feminism, are one word.
One word.
If you ever wondered why they carved a swastika into the forehead on an Antifa, you know the Sapir Whorf explanation now.
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>>83050896
>disproven by later research
>posts another study with the same findings (that there is an effect), but the conclusion that the effect wasn't as strong as previously thought
So sad, he's not even literate. Seriously, you looked at this paragraph
>We observed a boundary response speed advantage for goluboj/zelënyj but not for sinij/goluboj. The frequency bias affected only the sinij/goluboj boundary such that in a lighter context, the boundary shifted towards lighter shades, and vice versa. Contrary to previous research, our results show that in Russian, stimulus discrimination at the lightness-defined blue BCC boundary is not reflected in processing speed. The sinij/goluboj boundary did have a sharper categorical transition than the dark blue/light blue boundary, but it was also affected by frequency and order biases, demonstrating that "Russian blues" are less well-structured than previously thought.
and the only line you read was
>Contrary to previous research, our results show that in Russian, stimulus discrimination at the lightness-defined blue BCC boundary is not reflected in processing speed.
Sophist.

>>83051654
I mean, they're not dissimilar (feminism might be an oddball, but there's a lot of overlap between third-wave feminism and totalitarianism, so I can see it). The differences are mostly ones you would care about if you were one of them and bitterly hated the others; To everyone else the term, at least in English, may be "fascist" (because it sounds the nastiest, my original point) unless there is a specific national connotation (eg if it's a Chinese or a Russian totalitarian it's a commie, but even Nazis, who were not fascists, are sometimes called fascist), but the way people perceive them is as a lump "totalitarian" group, distinguished at most by a vague but (from what I have seen) poorly-understood sense that fascists are "authright" while communists are "authleft."
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>>83051654
>faszyzm / fascynacja
>komunizm
>feminizm
>narodowy socjalizm
What about these?
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>>83052678
Yeah, seemed like a suspicious claim and I can't find a reference to any other Eastern European language that has a single word, even just for Communism and Fascism, either. It could be that he's confused because he has heard that a word meaning "totalitarian" (so totalitarny I guess) CAN BE used to refer to all of the above, just as it can in English.
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>>82969542
How might sapients that live underwater, like merfolk, handle language?
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>>83052518
>>83052678
>>83052802
All of it came from Germany, in their eyes.
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>>83053281
Since it's a different medium that doesn't reward lungs, they would need to be air breathers & use whale song, or make noises fish make. DEFINITELY would need advanced 3-dimensional vocabulary or cases including up and down.
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>>83051395
>>83051654
>>83052518
>>83053676
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>>83053811
Could they even speak in the air? Honestly curious.
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>>82969542
<3 Tolkien
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>>83053281
>>83053811
Good ideas, and beyond that, hand sign language and body language, flickering bioluminescence codes, water vortices picked up by the lateral line organ,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrocommunication
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>>83055520
Probably not well but dolphins can go 'akakakakakak' so that's something.
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>>83037484
See anon, the very problem with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis and many others, is this motte-and-bailey situation where the strong form is interesting but wrong, and the weak form is true but useless. Yes, things subtly affect other things, no shit. If that's all it can contribute, then the "Sapir-Whorf hypothesis" is just a ceremonial baggage which doesn't bring anything on the table: better discard it entirely.

Yes, the progressive development of a color palette inside a culture and how it affects perception is interesting, but it is his own field, already quite fuzzy despite the limited scope, and it does not concern itself with speculative nonsense about how language affect ideas.
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>>83055520
Only when they have something to vibrate the air with. Take the extinct fish aliens of Dead Space as an example, which grafted pipes onto themselves for interspecies communication.
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>>83055486
Just take the L already.
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>>83057642
>which grafted pipes onto themselves for interspecies communication.
Ouch, that seems a bit extreme.
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>https://www.vulgarlang.com/
I use Vulgar to generate vocab, makes things easy. My normal method is:
>look at a certain language with a similar sound profile
>move around the vowels to put them towards a certain direction (last time I made more nasal finnish)
>alter consonants based around 1-3 words I have set already

Gives a good base, and then generated vocabulary. I'll do this a few times with different seeds or set some common syllables to get the sound profile I want. Then I use this as a base for my own work.
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>>83059587
Thanks anon. This is interesting.
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>>83056236
I think it's entirely the opposite. The strong form would be incredibly depressing if it were true, but the weak form is fascinating and ultimately optimistic from a linguistic and anthropological standpoint, and stands as a partial explanation for vast cultural differences between some cultures (and semantic similarities in language that are difficult to explain otherwise; some people find it frustrating that, for example, Japanese has words (usually grammatical words) that have no equivalent in English and cannot be consistently translated with explanations, but I find it more fascinating that, for example, "kami" can be accurately translated as "spirit," a term with weirdly specific and arbitrary boundaries that nonetheless apply to both words, though translators hilariously default to translating kami as "god," which in English means a great spirit that is the subject of worship, leading to the bizarre misconception that Shintoists worship pebbles because they think every pebble contains a god).
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>>83059587
>(last time I made more nasal finnish)
TOLKIEEEEEEEEN
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>>82969542
What do you think of settings with fictional languages like Matoran in Bionicle?
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>>83061676
It has nothing to do with how optimistic or depressing each form is, but about how useful they are as concept. Basically, everything subtly affects everything, so saying that our language somehow affects our thought-process is a complete non-observation if you cannot quantify it or offer a prediction of a sort. I may as well proclaim the "Farting-anon Jedi hypothesis" stating that there are scientific facts we don't know yet, then claim that every new discovery "proves" my theory.

You or another anon stated that "f-plosive" words always drift toward negative connotations. This would be something but as others pointed out, there are so many counter-examples that it looses any predictive value. It doesn't even prove that the causation goes on way and not the other.
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>>83064474
>It has nothing to do with how optimistic or depressing each form is, but about how useful they are as concept
To quote (You)
>the strong form is interesting but wrong, and the weak form is true but useless
How depressing or optimistic something is directly correlates to how interesting it is imo. I addressed your accusation that the weak form is "useless" separately. The second law of thermodynamics also doesn't mean that a system instantly becomes completely disordered and unable to perform mechanical work, but understanding it is very useful if you're an engineer, because it is a constant subtle influence on every single engineering problem, and reducing entropy is equivalent to conserving energy and increasing efficiency. Understanding the influence, no matter how subtle (and it isn't really THAT subtle, anyway, it just isn't total either), of language on culture is just as important if you are in the business of studying, analyzing, writing or commanding cultures.
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>>83050041
Most of those have a considerable separation between the f and the plosive. And some of the short ones are specific forms of words that don't meet the criteria. If you're having to reach to include free and fine then there really must not be very many counterexamples.
You've basically just got fleet, feat, and fluent.
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>>82969542
What do you think of universal languages?
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>>83068131
like esperanto ?
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I hate that my autism froze me to not know what languages I prefer using to name the characters of my setting. I've been through High German, Castillian, Gothic, Frisian, Suebi and Greek. How I miss the time when I just used Medieval English names.
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>>83068899
You can still use only English names. Or rather, words, since names are limited.
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>>83065457
> How depressing or optimistic something is directly correlates to how interesting it is imo
To stimulate your imagination, sure, nothing wrong with that. It's just not useful as a tool to understand real languages

> Understanding the influence
You don't understand it, that my point. Any statement like "f-plosive words are negatively connoted" is just plain wrong, to our current knowledge. Yes, it's safe to suppose that an influence of a sort exists, but you don't know in which direction it goes, how strong it is, if it's consistent between individuals and in time, and so on...

Your previous example with the Kamis is interesting but it doesn't seem to relate, since you say the word could be accurately translated as "spirit", so it's more like a translation problem. The f-plosive have been addressed already, and the color is its own thing and doesn't necessary support your point, since one of their finding is that color discrimination tends to evolve the same way in all cultures, which would actually support the opposite position. But none of this is really sure at this point...

That's my issue with nebulous concepts like "the Sapir Whorf hypothesis": they lends themselves to constant mental back and forth between theories which are interesting but wrong ("f-plosive words are negative") and completely trivial un-debunkable platitudes ("things affect other things, yo") so you end up thinking the latter somehow support the former
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>>82978837
Write out words and names.
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>>83070926
Ultimately and according to the scientific method, a hypothesis should make testable predictions. That's the gold standard, everything else is just improvised philosophy.
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>>83068702
>esperanto
Never heard of it.
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>>82969542
Stop calling everything "general", fucktard.
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>>82969542
I‘m aiming to create a language whose personal names sound foreign (as in not immediately attributable to any known language) yet they should seamlessly integrate into english and german as these are the languages which are spoken in our campaign.
I‘ve taken influences from germanic as well as assyrian and sumerian since it‘s a bronze age setting.
Some names which are already decided:
Vem
Hald
Irm
These are the names of powerful aristocrat/priest which think of themselves as gods in the flesh.
Their underlings are termed Vemlings, Haldlings and Irmlings respectively.
I‘m looking for feedback for this naming scheme as well as ideas for other names which work for this and feel fitting.
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LotR wasn't good because Tolkien was a linguist who made-up elvish, dwarvish, etc. It was good because he knocked-off the Nibelung Saga, Arthurian Legend, a Druid's curse on a Christian who stole his ring, etc.

OP's runic image is cool
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>>83071575
was the first conlang created with the goal of being a universal lingua franca and is also the only conlang to date with native speakers (children that grew up having esperanto as their first language)
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How do I make a language?
I have an idea of what I want my final product to be like but I don't know where to start and what to do after I start.
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>>82969542
I'm actually adding ciphered margin notes to a game I'm working on. Not a full company, but I'm sure folks will appreciate the aesthetics.
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>>83075487
>How do I make a language?
here a basic tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6xPxnYMQpqsooCDYtQQSiD2O3YO0b2nN

and here going on more detail in some specific features
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6xPxnYMQpqtRYXTLyNgF-oCc4SHYpIYq

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLduA6tsl3gygfiWmGAhhHb4-HAqP6I63l
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>>83076303
Thank anon. You’re based.
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bump
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>>83075840
This language fucks. I love it.
How do you type combined symbols?
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>>83073497
Wrong. It was good because it was made with passion, and if it were not made with passion he would not have made up the languages therein; Conversely, as a linguist, if he did not make up the languages therein, it would most likely be because he did not make it with passion. When you have a passion FOR something, creating something else with passion will always absorb elements of that thing. It's unavoidable.
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>>83075487
Who's this clown? What does he have to do with languages?
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>>83076303
But what if I prefer to learn with books?
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>>83082284
then I recommend you to look up this one
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>>83075840
It's cool aesthetically but I prefer scripts that lend themselves to handwriting.

>>83082371
I checked this out from the library like a year and a half ago, it's pretty good.
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>>83082371
Okay now this is what I wanted
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>>83082371
Thanks anon. Keep up the good work!
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>>83080078
It was made with passion and knowledge. Passion alone is not enough, what you write must have some connection with reality or at least be plausible, that's where knowing what you are writting about enters the equation.

Tolkien was passionate and knowledgeable, the two minimum requisites to make a great work of art.
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>>83079728
Id have to spoil how it works to tell you that. Suffice it to say: carefully.
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>>83087173
>Id have to spoil how it works to tell you that
Not him, but we don’t mind.
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>>83088270
I do. Long story short I'm playing things somewhat close to the chest, and /tg/ are not outside of my target market. If it's any consolation here's the other script I'll be using.
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>>83079728
My guess is that it's a featural script, so how you type it is less important than how the letter shapes go together.
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>>83088770
I can promise you its not meaningfully featural. Its part of a series of 3 related scripts which share elements and are meant to be deciphered in tandem. It is a simple replacement that can be typed with a normal keyboard, and has no built-in ligature corrections or diacritics required. Honestly that in and of itself may give the entire game away. Its not a good conlang script in practice because, knowing how it works, nobody would ever write this way, however it makes for a very good puzzle - it lets me produce the maze faster than people would likely take to solve it, other than those who are REALLY into language puzzles (a self-professed master cracked the whole thing wide open with around 30 words of text in under 2 hours with no key phrases or anything).

It exists entirely for aesthetic intrigue, because it means that I dont have to commission quiet so many incidental art assets - I can just fill the space with some extra text and it looks great.
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>>83083691
I recommended it days ago bro >>83017636

>>83085755
Knowledge tends to come with passion and time. Tolkien did not have knowledge of all subjects (for example the geology of his world based on his map is absolutely mad), but that didn't hobble him, because his knowledge and passion were in the same places and those things naturally come to the front.

Also skill is a third factor. His actual skill in writing was excellent; He constructed sentences that were pleasing to read while conveying information in a way that was easy to absorb.
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>>82969542
Language nerds, what tips would you give for a con lang for primitive/low inteligence sentient creatures?
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>>83090681
Copy Toki Pona and change the vocab.
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>>83090681
Some thoughts, some of which are contrary to >>83091980 (Toki Pona is exceptionally easy to learn and communicate in, but nothing resembling it has developed naturally, showing that a language like Toki Pona takes both intelligence and linguistic awareness to artificially construct):
>Low intelligence doesn't mean a smaller phonemic inventory or vice versa. While it's true that Chinese- and English-speaking countries tend to have higher average IQs, so does Japan, and the Japanese phonemic inventory is relatively small; Meanwhile animals that are categorically less intelligent than humans communicate, albeit not with structured language, with HUGE phonemic inventories that dwarf the distinct sounds humans are capable of producing despite our handy flexible mouth-parts, and communicating largely through noise-imitation similar to mockingbirds might be a hallmark of low-intellect linguistic communication.
>Low intelligence also doesn't mean the language has fewer words in its lexicon, but does probably mean that it has fewer grammatical words and affixes, and that the average speaker knows fewer of the words. Sentences might be supplemented by gestures or charades to make up for the lack of overlap in individuals' vocabularies. Just look at Californians for inspiration.
>As sound structure and lexicon will not necessarily be simpler, look to simpler grammatical structure. Especially if the animal has features that offset its weak intellect like very acute hearing, they might have less redundancy in their speech, and completely lack features like consistent tense or articles. A sentence might look like "predator friend eat" (SOV "a predator ate my friend/will eat my friend/is eating my friend") with hand and face gestures to provide context that also provides tense (eg a sad face for the past tense, gesturing to come with me for the future tense, a panicked look and frenzied hand waving for the present tense).
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>>82994358
I like the word halcyon. Everyone knows what it means, but using it still gets points with an intelligent lady
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>>83093765
>Everyone knows what it means
But do they though? My favourite word in that vein is Empyrean, though my favourite word overall is probably Esperance (not because of Esperanto, just in general). For one thing it has many more use cases than Empyrean, and less banal ones than Halcyon (when do you use the latter except when talking about the "halcyon days" of either your youth or "yore"?).

Also, Halcyon has something of a "fake definition," which is why I say "do they though." It's used to mean golden, peaceful and joyous, but only specifically when talking about a nostalgic period in the past, but its actual meaning is Kingfisher (as in, the species of bird). "Halcyon days" comes from the description of calm days at sea as "Halcyon days" because they were the days Kingfishers would fly over the ocean; It was never an adjective to begin with. As a Greek semi-proper noun (she was, similar to Arachne for example, a woman who was transformed into an animal), it is only one of many that is highly pleasing to the ear, though the usual English pronunciation is incorrect.
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>>83008021
Pros- none
Cons- Everything
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>>83068131
Like English?
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Read "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" if you want some great inspiration for conlangs, the first part does not have anything to do with the topic tho, it's just an introduction to give context to the main, interesting part that you will find great. Believe me, that story has the most creative conlangs ever ideated (they are just loose ideas), and is a good story in general.
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>>83096427
Yes. English is the best language.
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>>83004644
The fact that lots of languages are about 10% loanwords due to complex historical interaction.
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>>83074449
It wasn't the first, it was just the most successful. There were earlier attempts such as Volapük but they were marred with all sorts of nonsense and weirdness. Esperanto was an attempt as a pan-European language that was as simple to learn as possible thanks to the use of the riders on many words.
Dog = Hundo
Female Dog = Hundino
Young Dog = Hundido
Young Female Dog = Hundinido
It's said that to master French takes about 2000 hours, German close to 3000, etc etc. Esperanto? In about 300.
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>>83100106
There's Interslavic as well which jas been somewhat successful. Being a native speaker I already understand most other Slavic languages, so this one was easy to pick up. Took me... Maybe 50 hours? More like reading a new word ebery now and then than actually learning a new language. And I've heard plenty of people use it. It's cool, but I don't think it was needed. Most of us understand each other as is. Still cool though.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interslavic
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>>83099979
For that you need to make up more than one.
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>>83102692
Nah. All you have to do is decide that a word is a loanword. Making a separate grammar and syntax isn't necessary.
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>>83102692
>>83103049
I don't agree with either of you. You need some kind of consistency because loanwords will usually consistently come from a single neighbouring language (with a certain amount of perversion to the original spelling/pronunciation) in proportion to the intensity and length of historical contact with that language's speakers. So for example, japanese words like "sushi" and "karaoke" have a cohesive aesthetic, and french loanwords like "facade" and "interrogation" do as well, though in the latter case the word was originally "interrogacion." Conversely, Japanese doesn't have the same vast phonemic inventory English has and also has stricter rules on consonant clusters, so the loanword "milk" from English becomes "miruku" (which is pronounced like "me-rew-k" since Japanese has the fairly unique trait of unvoiced vowels, though to some degree these are common in vernacular forms of many if not most languages, where entire syllables may be dropped consistently if they are unnecessary to the conveyance of information).

Therefore, you probably want to at least construct something of a naming language for each language from which your spoken language borrows loanwords. It's disingenuous to say a naming language requires the same effort as constructing an entire second language (if you put your nose to the grindstone, it takes less than a day, while a convincing spoken natlang can take months to perfect, if not years if you don't work on it daily, and is unlikely to take less than a few weeks even if you're Rainman). However, it's also disingenuous to say you can just make up random bullshit for "loanwords" and handwave it without coming up with some kind of coherent structure for the loanwords themselves.
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>>83105414
You just said >>83103049 but with much more words
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based thread
other threads are dumb

>>82986335
Oh, damn
I remember doing something like this
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bump
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>>83093158
Kind of late but thanks anon!
*kisses you*
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>>83110557
>*kisses you*
>>>/b/
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>>83107725
I didn't say >>83103049 at all. I explicitly said not->>83103049 in fact.

>>83110557
Ew, gay!
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>>83096525
If you want great inspiration for conlangs, learn something about actual languages. There's thousands of them.
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>>83100106
>Esperanto? In about 300.
Get out. What about Spanish?
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>>82976511
Guarani is not a tenseles language,
example of how our verbs work is as follows
kẽ is the verb "to sleep"
to say I sleep you say "Che akẽ" meaning "I (1rst person article)sleep"
the "a" in front of kẽ represents this
so you can just say akẽ and be understood
leading into tense, adding particles to the verb changes it's tenses, a "ta" at the end means future tense
so "akẽta" means "I'm going to sleep"
you can add "ma" to that to express that doing something already, as in you've started something
"Che akẽtama" would mean "I'm going to sleep already"
to show it's a negative, you add "nd-" in front of words and a "I" at the end
so "I'm not going to sleep already" could be said as "Che ndakẽtamai" or just ndakẽtamai"
additionally and finally (saying all of this to share my native tongue and to give you guys ideas. there's a form of verbal exclamation mask so to speak, adding "hina" at the end of this abomination of a word is a spoken exclamation if that makes sense
so we ha "I'M NOT GOING TO SLEEP ALREADY!!" said as "Ndakẽtamai-hina"
My guarani is mostly gone given I've lived overseas for the last ten years, but this is the jist of it
hope you have fun with this concept
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarani_language#Conjugation
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>>82985617
Skyrim.
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>>82969542
What's your opinions on using real-world languages on the basis of equivalent cultural connotations (from the perspective of the player characters' culture)?
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>>83113035
But it's just a relex of English.
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>>83113035
Dovah is really crap for everything but the script. The Ayleid language from Oblivion was better in terms of actually being its own language, but it's largely ripped off from Tolkien; Skyrim's Falmeris is just Ayleidoon with a different font (not even a different alphabet) and we only have one small fragment in Dwemeris. The Aldmeris and Daedric naming languages are okay but they're just naming languages. Dovah is just a gloss of English but you drop articles.
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>>83017070
I'm working on a conlang with the idea that the civilization sat down and designed it deliberately to promote a particular sort of thinking, and to make other sorts of thinking less convenient. The use of phonemes is such that separation between individual units of meaning is unambiguous, it's pretty much impossible to be understood without including evidential (how do you know it?) information, state-of-being verbs are absent, and certain concepts are handled differently (there's no noun for "value"; just the verb). The entire lexicon is arranged into a sort of imaginary vector space, with each concept's position being a function of its relationship with other concepts, so knowing the concepts around a word would help you to guess the word for a concept, or to understand it when hearing it for the first time. Basic mathematical and scientific concepts are encoded into the typical vocabulary (like the word for "force" is something like "masstimesacceleration", but with fewer syllables) so that merely learning the language encodes a basic education. All the while, there are no more than 216 basic meanings (6^3, since they count in base 6).
This informs a lot about the civilization that speaks the language, what their attitudes and values are, and how they view the world.
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>>83113035
>>83115137
I do love the script. It makes me think of a cross between cuneiform and katakana.
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>>82969542
What are some interesting facts about the Japanese language?
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>>83119915
Typologically it's pretty damn average- agglutinative, strongly suffixing, SOV, pitch accent, five vowels, about 15 consonants depending on how you count them, (C)(y)V(n) syllable structure... However, it has one of the most ludicrous writing systems on the planet.
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>>83113647
Tolkien did it despite also conlanging iirc. I don't like it personally, bothers my autism.

>>83117457
Yeah, fits its place in the lore since dragons are from not!Japan and it's one of the oldest written languages in the universe (and also because it's carved using cone-shaped claws). You can tell it was probably one of the earlier things they came up with for the game, back when the question they were asking was "what cool thing could we add to the lore for this region to give the setting more depth and realism?" and not "how can we make this more marketable?" An example of the latter is how rather than having synthetic etymology a lot of words literally derive their sound from the fact that a couple of songs have to rhyme in both Dovah and English for the sake of a forgettable marketing stunt.

>>83120425
Its ludicrous writing system is just Hanzi, which is one of four writing systems (though the two types of kana not to mention almost-random use of romaji are certainly a bit silly; it's like if we wrote things in our usual Latin alphabet but then we wrote "newer" and "cooler" words in Cyrillic for some reason but also if we wanted to look sophisticated or convey information to Asians we used Hangul... But also instead of shorthand we just fucking wrote things in Chinese sometimes if we knew the hanzi for it). Katakana, Hiragana and Romaji are perfectly reasonable scripts on their own.
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>>83121008
>Katakana, Hiragana and Romaji are perfectly reasonable scripts on their own.
Yes, but Japanese orthography taken as a whole is ludicrous.
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>>83121055
Ehh, technically Hiragana is to Katakana as italic script is to roman script in Latin languages, the weird thing being that even in typeprint they default to the italic (ie "handwritten") typeface. With that in mind it's not much worse than how we occasionally use @ to mean at, $ to mean dollar, & to mean and, &c, they just do it more and mostly with nouns.
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>>83121115
Sure, but there are thousands of kanji and most have multiple readings, as well as hundreds of jukujikun. That's why it's a ridiculous orthography.
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>>83121172
Jukujikun also have equivalents in English, eg the orthography of "knight" has nothing to do with how it's pronounced (nait) because it's from a related Germanic word pronounced k nek h t. Despite having completely altered the pronunciation of the word, we still use the old orthography that makes no sense in relation to the pronunciation. Kanji themselves (same thing as Hanzi, it's just a different spelling, like if we actually spelled knight "nait" or "nite" in line with most modern English orthography) are literally just the Chinese writing system, so imo it's difficult to pin them on Japanese as though they are a fault of Japanese.
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>>83121250
>Jukujikun also have equivalents in English, eg the orthography of "knight" has nothing to do with how it's pronounced (nait) because it's from a related Germanic word pronounced k nek h t.
But that's not true, initial <kn> is reliably /n/ and <igh> is reliably /aJ/.
>Kanji themselves (same thing as Hanzi, it's just a different spelling, like if we actually spelled knight "nait" or "nite" in line with most modern English orthography) are literally just the Chinese writing system, so imo it's difficult to pin them on Japanese as though they are a fault of Japanese.
Continuing to use them can be faulted.
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>>83121316
>But that's not true, initial <kn> is reliably /n/ and <igh> is reliably /aJ/.
Kanji is logographic and has no orthographic pronunciation at all, unless it is specifically Hanzi comprised of phonemic radicals (which are very rarely used in Japanese if at all, since Japs can just spell shit with Kana if they don't already have Kanji for it). I think it's much fairer to say that /n/ is reliably <n> in any context, but in a handful of cases it is instead <kn>. Conversely, it is just as fair to say that <k> is reliably /k/ except in a handful of cases where it is /n/. Furthermore, the reason for the discrepancy is the orthography finding its source in an older language, which has become obsolete to people who speak the language in question, in both cases. <igh> is not reliably /ɑi/ either; in fact, it is reliably /i/ or similar, but often arbitrarily has /a/ tacked on, as in the case of knight. Consider eight, weight, straight, etc. There are at least two exceptions (albeit stemming from compound words) where it stands for exactly what it looks like in actually-normal English (letter-by-letter) orthography, /Igh/ (pigheaded and bighead), though these words share a problematic digraph, <ea> (which an arbitrarily be either /i/ or /e/ despite looking like /ea/ or /eɑ/. By rights, knight should be /knight/ or /knIght/ in modern English (the archaic pronunciation being /kneXt/ in IPA IIRC, which is still closer to the modern pronunciation a child would attempt if sounding out the word after learning their alphabet, kuh nuh ih guh huh tuh, /knIght/ or the mildly-provocative "k'nigght" as in Monty Python).
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>>83121316
>>83122602
>Continuing to use them can be faulted.
Not really. Once literacy is already high it's remarkably difficult to push major spelling reforms, let alone script reforms. It does sometimes happen (eg Mongolian in places under Russian rule being gradually replaced by Cyrillic because the government enforces it, parts of the Roman Empire being forced to learn Latin script, Irish being pressured to fix their fucking Latin orthography, which even made English orthography look sensible and consistent by comparison), but it's far more practical, if everyone generally understands each other anyway, to let things stay the way they are (or let them keep gradually developing on their own). Romaji's use attests to this (or rather, the way it is used); at one point there was a push by many Japanese to westernise, because it was seen that during the two centuries of Japanese isolation the rest of the world had technologically left them behind, evidence that Japanese culture was in some way more stagnant or regressive than American and English culture especially. However, it's really, really hard to get people who are used to one system to start using a different system, even one that generally makes more sense, so instead of becoming a "better writing system" for Japan, Romaji became a "written sentence enhancer," almost the same way Anglophones use French words and clichés, like "c'est la vie" or "je se ne quois" (a really good example because I don't think most people who use it realise it means "I don't know what," as in "she has a certain I don't know what," while it is actually used pretty consistently to mean "air or mystique" and trailing off and saying "I don't know lol!" when there are common words you could use actually makes you sound like an idiot) or "cliché."

Korea was a special case because Hangul was invented because literacy was virtually nonexistent, rather than merely low as in the case of Kana.
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>>83122602
>Kanji is logographic and has no orthographic pronunciation at all, unless it is specifically Hanzi comprised of phonemic radicals (which are very rarely used in Japanese if at all, since Japs can just spell shit with Kana if they don't already have Kanji for it).
What are you talking about? The phonetic components are still relevant to onyomi.
>I think it's much fairer to say that /n/ is reliably <n> in any context, but in a handful of cases it is instead <kn>.
I would say English spelling is basically (irregular) many-to-one.
> Consider eight, weight, straight, etc.
I should have said <igh> not after another vowel; <eigh> is a thing in its own right.
Still, my basic point is that, while very difficult and irregular, English spelling does have an underlying logic. See this page:
http://zompist.com/spell.html
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>>83122831
>while very difficult and irregular, English spelling does have an underlying logic.
ough
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>>83122920
You didn't even look at the page I linked.
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>>83122954
So you couldn't tell whether I was responding with mild surprise and affirmation, in disgust or by telling you to leave the thread. Telling.
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>>83123002
It's riddled with exceptions but there is something for the exceptions to be exceptions to.
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>>83117308
So like an altruistic nuspeak? Sounds interesting. What do you mean by 216 basic meanings? 216 different words and everything else is a compound? Or each word had 216 different meanings/use cases?
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>>83117308
I feel like there have been attempts at such systems and they usually don't end up very well.
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>>83123255
>216 different words and everything else is a compound
This. I was avoiding the word "morpheme" because I didn't want to sound too hoity-toity.

>>83123290
True. That's why I envision it as a language in the context of a fictional setting. It'll work if I say it works.
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>>83123915
But you're actually going to make it as a language and not just describe it?
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>>83123915
It's a language creation thread, don't worry about using linguistic terms.
Have you looked at toki pona? It has ~120 words/morphemes and anything more created as essentially a compound. It may be a good place to start with an idea. Toki ma is a "fork," if you will, of toki pona. It has about 150 more words than toki pona, including a number system, getting you around your 216 morpheme goal. Neither has morphology, they're purely analytic languages, so you could do something there if you don't want to make a carbon copy.
If i were doing toki pona i'd write every compound as a separate word just to make reading easier to parse, but it would function the same.
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>>83120425
>it has one of the most ludicrous writing systems on the planet.
What are the other ludicrous examples?
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>>83125235
>toki pona?
Never heard of it.
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>>83128716
Well it's one of the most widely used minimal languages, so you might look into it. Ogden's Basic English may be relevant too, though it cheats a bit.
>>83125235
>If i were doing toki pona i'd write every compound as a separate word just to make reading easier to parse, but it would function the same.
I think the idea of Toki Pona is it's not supposed to have lexicalized compounds, though in practice it has a few.
>>83125762
Chinese is up there, as is Mongolian (traditional script) and English. If you include historical examples, though, the worst would probably have to be Old Japanese or one of the cuneiform languages.
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Question, why is spanish so simple to pronounce? Comparing it to all other romance languages, including those in the iberian peninsula, spanish is remarkable easy to pronounce and lacking in contractions. (contrast with french, where you'd swear half the vowels at the end of a word are for show). Heck even ancient spanish skips more vowels than the modern variety. What happened?
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>>83130830
Spanish had a thorough spelling reform in the 1800s
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>>83130861
Are they talking about ease of deriving pronunciation from spelling, or ease of pronunciation itself?
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>>83130956
Probably both from their wording, but I went with orthography because she mentions French and Old Spanish orthography
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The language is mainly Latin with Japanese, French and Spanish thrown in a bit.
It don't remember the name but its in the first couple chapters of the novel I'm writing but it's the common tounge used by most.
All other languages are most obsolete except Japanese because the country who uses it is very snobbish
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>>83131252
I will now read your novel
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>>83131283
>Project 17
Is the name I'll finish volume one by this summer and upload it for free to read somewhere.
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>>83131311
Neat. What's the genre?
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>>83131330
Fantasy and Adventure is the best description.
It's like if hyboria or middle earth progressed into modern day, Things like evil darklords who almost ruled the world or dragons and other mystical beasts just exist/ existed and no one bats an eye because that's just biology/History.
I'm gonna make it into a dnd campaign eventually I'm doing a test run with some friends right now and it's going somewhat smoothly with only a couple things not so good.
But I want to have multiple different stories in the same universe which spans thousands of years. From the days of cavemen battling ancient monsters with stone tools to the modern day then to the far future where galaxies are being explored and conquered.
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>>83131407
mite b cool
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>>82969542
>Do you have a system or strategy for naming NPCs?
I tend to follow two routes
1. Assign a langue to the race for naming conventions, names are basic words with some spelling changes to make them flow better. I generally use somewhat obscure languages like Turkish or Slavic instead of German or French or something.
2. Literally just copy archaic names for a similar culture. People are notGermans/Norse? Give them names like Clovis, Theuderic, Alaric, etc.

>Do you take inspiration from real life when designing place names?
Generally I just use obscure place names and mix up the words a bit if that. Would a player really call you out on having a volcanic mountain chain the Karakum Mountains because it just means black sand mountains and is named after the Karakum desert?

>Do you provide players with a map of your setting? How do you reveal it to them?
Here's a map with some borders, cities, and climates, if you have question feel free to ask and I/we can add more info otherwise just use it as a reference so you don't get into an argument about whether or not you should take a boat to a desert.
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>>83131407
>just exist/ existed
Don’t have magic go extinct, that’s cringe. Otherwise it sounds pretty cool.
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>>82969542
Who else here started out wanting names for places and people that meant something, but went overboard and decided to make who make a whole-ass language, for its own sake? I've just gotten into this shit and I'm loving it.
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>>83130830
One factor is certainly its rules for morphemes. Sort of similar to Japanese where they just will not pronounce foreign consonant clusters and insert a bunch of vowels in them instead, or to a lesser extent English where CERTAIN consonant clusters get schwas dispersed throughout them (yet some really awkward ones like ngths and sts get a pass), Spanish has rules on where sounds can be used and how they can be used together, which is why, for example, words that start with an S in other romance languages always have an extra E before the S (so you get, for example, estrellas for stars or espanol for spanish).

That said, depending what you mean, Spanish may not be as easy to pronounce as you think. Latin (or Mexican) Spanish has a lot of Azteca and Mexica loanwords which are NOT easy to pronounce, like "chipotle" (you wouldn't believe how many anglophones I've heard say "chipolty," or maybe you would, I dunno). European Spanish, on the other hand, has some inconsistent orthography, and s sounds are pronounced more like th (as though every Spaniard has a lisp) in certain situations (which is why Americans call Barcelona Barselona, but Spaniards call it Barthelona).

>>83131004
>she
dilate
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>>83134041
I started out just wanting a naming language and mystical script like Daedric for my videogame setting and have now sunk into the endless pit of designing an entire language I would make all of the dialogue in the game in with real-world-language subtitles/translations, if I still had time to work on a videogame after dedicating all that time to language. I've still been working on a lot of worldbuilding and general writing as well as renewing my drawing skills to the point I reckon I'm pretty good and teaching myself music composition which I'm still really bad at, but programming has fallen way by the wayside.
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This tutorial may be useful if you want to build a language.
https://zompist.com/kit.html
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>>83123953
Yes, because I enjoy the exercise.

>>83125235
I have! It fascinates me, and one of my first thoughts was to start with that and add/change things since complexity is easier to add than to remove. I had not heard of Toki ma, though, so I'll be sure to check it out, thanks!
I've got my phonemic inventory and phonotactics pretty much worked out (until I inevitably discover problems down the line), but the morpheme selection is what's getting to me. I'm looking at cross-linguistic lists of semantic primitives and trying to come up with organizational schemes. Toki ma's expanded inventory may give more guidance.
One of my current hurdles is ironing out the specifics of my evidential system. I figured the best way to make it grammatically mandatory was to make all verbs out of nouns with a verb-ifying particle attached. It occurred to me that I might be able to combine them with relationals, thus eliminating the general need for prepositions too, but I'm running into a hiccup with 2nd- or 3rd-person in recursive evidentiality ("I heard that you saw that they claimed..."). If I'm not careful, I'll make it possible to say something like "He heard X", instead of "I think/heard/observed/etc" that he heard X".

>>83125762
Mayan?
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File: Heibon-pp.10-11.jpg (1016 KB, 2476x2228)
1016 KB
1016 KB JPG
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>>83063077
Absolute madlad made an entire working etymology paper on a toy series.
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>>83138118
Nice. I love Bionicle.
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>>83140288
Same here. Shame it got cancelled.

BTW, given what we know about Bionicle naming conventions, how would you name the Rahkshi types beyond the main six?
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>>83142573
https://outofgloom.tumblr.com/post/189310946198/naming-the-sons-of-makuta#notes
Madman made (mentioned) working lexicon. Try to find the needed prefixes.
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>>83144274
Thanks anon. What is your favorite type?
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>>83144274
That's some pretty impressive art. You do that?
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>>83146399
Hard to choose from.
>>83149386
Found it.
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>>82969542
yikes and cringe
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>>83151076
>yikes and cringe
How can we make it not cringe?





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