Horse Girl EditionPrevious Thread: >> 82259674A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various gaming adaptations.Game ResourcesStar Trek Adventures-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html-Homebrew Collection>https://continuingmissionsta.com/-PDF Collection>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures/stg/ Other RPGs (Previous Licensed, Unlicensed, and Third Party)>https://pastebin.com/v5BgQxabStar Trek: Attack Wing-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/Star Trek: Fleet Captain-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/Star Trek: Ascendancy-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)>http://startrek.gf9games.com/Lore ResourcesMemory Alpha - Canon wiki>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:MainMemory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_PageFan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXFStar Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html/stg/ Homebrew Content>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyPThread Topic: at what point does a species become incompatible with federation values?
>TTIm not sure if there's any real answer outside a lack of respect for human life on a societal scale.
>TTI guess the only thing that would cause an entire species to be incompatible with the Federation would be the species being obligate carnivores on the cannibalistic side, and having a culture which leans in hard to that. Quite simply, they see no issues with killing other 'intelligent' lifeforms to devour them.It's highly unlikely that such a species would be capable of developing interstellar travel independently; it is more likely that they would have gained access to the technology by accident or other coincidence (a warp capable ship crashes/lands, crew get captured by local leader, uses threat of being eaten to obtain knowledge of how to reproduce the tech) which bootstraps them into space.
>>82320389TT: Nothing short of outwardly hostile societal aggression would qualify.I imagine several species/civilizations in the Federation will fluctuate between xenophobia and xenophilia, isolationism and expansionism, pacifism and militarism over the centuries. Kind of like we do today.The Federation Diplomatic Corps no doubt has lots of experience dealing with this.
>>82321831>It's highly unlikely that such a species would be capable of developing interstellar travel independentlyDo you always just make things up on the internet?
>>82321831While it’s not entirely trek canon, this could sort of apply to the kzinti. Giant cannibalistic cats who genetically engineered their women to be nothing more than animals, (that detail’s a ringworld thing, but we do know that female kzinti in trek are non-sapient) and yet modern trek has put them in the background of the federation, not quite confirming that they’ve joined, but it seems like they’ve got a friendly-ish diplomatic relationship with ufp.
>>82320389>Thread Topic: at what point does a species become incompatible with federation values?Incompatible with joining the Federation: a whole buttload of stuff, there's a detailed process species need to go through for Federation membership. Even human colonies need to abide by a certain criteria to be full members.Incompatible with diplomatic relations with the Federation: a refusal to, and nothing else. Prime Directive means the Federation doesn't interfere in how a species wants to conduct its affairs, so literally the only thing preventing diplomacy is the species themselves.
>>82320389Space cannibals>>82322689Are the Kzinti Federation members, or am I think of one of their legally distinct counterparts that came in for spin off rpgs and war games?
Anyone know of any 28-32mm scale Nausicaan minis? Or am I gonna have to convert one from a Klingon
>>82322798Not confirmed members, but LD has a random Kzin ensign and PIC references some sort of diplomatic issue with them.
>>82321831The Ba'ul in Discovery? They arent Federation members (at the time) but they did get warp travel despite eating sentient life
Nu-trek: surprisingly okay with cannibalism.
>>82323636Dont act like Picard wouldn't defend it if it was a central pillar of an alien society
>>82320389How incompatible is incompatible? I thought the rules were mostly have a one world government, no theocracies, and be a warp civilization.Lots of Fed worlds still have money economies.
>>82320389Aren't there a lot of superpowered aliens that are Federation members now? Like non corporeal energy beings, fairly high level psychics, that kind of thing? But would be game breaking for an episodic series to have them around too often on an Enterprise?
>>82323636Not all of them
>>82324160>>82323210Although, to be fair >>82323656
>>82323542Did they actually eat the Kelpians? I thought that was the MU Terrans.
>>82324253I might be mixing them up, though Im pretty sure the Ba'ul at the very least get Kelpians killed
>>82323954Medusans are members, but they are not exactly Metron or noncorporeal alien of the week levels at all. Cairn seem like they are better psychics than Betazoids since they do not even have vocal chords. There is a species of psychic squids that wear humanoid armor to interact with other Fed speciesBynars are a Borg-LiteI think Napians are psychic as wellTAS and LD has a lot of animal species like iguanas, birds, centaurs, dogs, and then there is all the shit you saw in the courtroom scene in ST IV, who knows what is going on in there.
Has there been any movement on those new playmates figures? It feels like they were randomly announced and then entirely forgotten about.
>>82323934>Lots of Fed worlds still have money economies.The funny thing is that this suggests that humanity was always on the sort maybe end of capitalism.
>>82324500It also make it seem like it's only Earth that abandoned economy for being the "enlightened" society.
>>82322689The Kzinti are not entirely incompatible with the UFP though. Being a carnivore is not a deal breaker, and eating sentient life is not a biological need but a cultural one. Kzinti could choose or be convinced to eat regular or replicated meat and would fare just fine.You'd keep the borders closed obviously to any travellers, but you could do things like trade or even migration.As long as the possibility of future integration exists the Federation won't write off a species.
>>82324500>>82324642I take it as living in the Federation means food, power, shelter, education, healthcare, transport, etc are all free. Meaning that for most people they wouldn't need money for 98% of their lives.There'd obviously be limits. I'd be free to pursue whatever I want, but I can't just 'want' to own 25 spaceships and a moon made out of solid gold.It does also seems obvious there's a macro scale economy going on. Interplanetary trading, starship construction, advanced research, rare material extraction all require goods and services moving back and forth.But most average people living normal lives would so seldom come into contact with it that there isn't any real need for them to have or learn about currency.
>>82324642Earth always seemed like it was Vulcan-Lite, or at least humans spent as much time and effort as possible to imitate Vulcans. And they made the emotional human version of their society.They adopted the mostly pacifist society, without money economy, no longer eat meat, abolished distractions like entertainment media, abolished genetic research, give speeches about how they have evolved beyond meager pursuits, and spend all day trying to be the most egalitarian perfect society in the galaxy. They just did not go fucking crazy with the no emotions and quiet meditation all day thing. They instead play a lot of jazz and chess. And they never wanted to call their territory an empire.
>>82324333Which dog alien are you talking about? I dont remember any dogs in either show. Many cats and birds though.>>82324500>>82324642Ive always assumed that there had to be some money exchanging hands semi frequently in the Federation or Quark couldnt logically be doing stuff and franchising what he's doing.
Troi is useless Sarek has telepathic dementia. Instead of having Troi help with her telepathic justu. It's Picard that's got to be a emotional whipping boy.
>>82325676I imagine “pocket change” would get more common if Ferengi ever join the federation or become Klingon-tier adjacent to the federation. I’d figure Quark’s franchise is marketed as a sort of cultural enrichment experience. Truly, you haven’t experienced real, authentic Ferengi cuisine unless you had to pay for it.
>>82324899>any real need for them to have or learn about currency.>1800 come on nowDespite some writers extremely annoying use of the word "ancient" when talking about 20-21 century Earth, it's only a few hundred years off and very well documented. The utopian bullshit is such a silly stretch already
I personally think one aspect where all of nuTrek made a good decision compared to the older shows is all the shows having some separation in the uniforms for science and medical. LD and SNW does it the best though
The federation has to have an energy/time based currency. Since the limiting factor is how much fusion reactor fuel was consumed to make something. The major member planets and their colonies have a state socialism system. Where everyone just gets their basics covered. With how nice the basics are determine by how developed the economy is. It serves a basic function of rationing. Without the need to have the state micromanage every thing. So everyone isn't trying to get a mountain cabin with oak beams and vintage furnishings.
>>82325902STD has terrible shoes.
>>82325916their whole uniforms were terrible until season 4 where they became great
>>82325916My god, I never would have noticed that. They look like fucking sketchers. It’s like like the actors were standing around in normal jogging shoes and that accidentally found its way into a shot.Hate to turn this into another generic ‘bruh LD does it so much better’ post, but I’m sad we’ll likely never see a live-action version of those banded boots. The deltas on the soles is such a small, odd detail, but it’s great, and somehow weirdly fitting for the federation. Although I’ve never been fond of how the pant leg and the boot are different shades of black.
>>82326076I think that's just an animation thing, making the differences between the legs and feet apparent probably helps make their jobs easier in some way
>>82325916Why didn't they go with a variant of the original series' Italian boots?
>>82326302>Why didn't they go with a variant of the original series' Italian boots?Because they have terrible taste and budgeting?
>>82325814It would be tricky though, Im sure the Federation would be able to afford to give money to a lot of people depending on where they are, but they dont want to completely destroy the econonmies of these member worlds. Maybe the Federation sets up shop in a member world and give people who may request it a stipend based on what they have access to. Latinum just got standardized across multiple planets and just became the one people use outside their home planet
>>82322149We're talking about a species which would a) have no reservations about eating other members of their species and b) having a culture which celebrates eating members of their own species.That does not strike me as an atmosphere conducive to the formation of a stable government, nor as a foundation for scientific progress.>>82324325The Ba'ul culturally encouraged those Kelpians going through their transformation to off themselves, ostensibly as a mercy to end the pain, but in reality to prevent those Kelpians developing the instincts of their ancestors.>>82325682Picard took the risk, because as the Captain he did not wish to risk anyone else's life. Sarek's aide had been enquiring about Troi's abilities, potentially looking for an option whereby she helped bolster his abilities to block Sarek's emotional overspill, but that was ruled out by Data's answers.
>>82325921The season 4 uniforms are fuck awful
>>82325902LD's black shoes=science white shoes=medical feels odd given that people are going to see the shoulders/neck and not look down to check feet all the time. Medical should have a white collar.
>>82325903I think they do. TOS mentioned credits, and Kirk bought his cabin. It's just that we never see anyone actually running low on currency or desperate to not lose their income until Ezri's family in DS9.
>>82325902Agreed, I just wish they expanded it to more things. Why the hell are operations, engineering and security all wearing the same colors?
>>82329317Engineering/Ops is fine because there seems to be huge overlap and shared knowledge but Security should definitely be distinct.
>>82329317I'd love for Security to be distinct but sadly it seems too late. Nutrek has spread white/light blue for medical all over the timeline so it's fine to include at this point, but the flip side is that they spread that same lack of change to security all over it as well so it's hard to imagine giving security a distinction could ever be standardized. Someone could make Security be it's own thing from post Picard to the 32nd century but the more shows they make post nemesis the more unlikely it feels
>>82328049They sucked in the promo images but for whatever reason the fit is much nicer in the show proper
>>82325902Snw has the best idea by making the uniforms different shades of the same color.
>>82327821We have very little data on what contributes to those things (more or less one excample) so you can't really draw a conclusion or trend. Maybe the cannibles form a government to determine who gets eaten next, presumably they war a lot (as that fills the larders it would be the one species that goto war to fill the kitchen instead of kill the kitchen) and scientific progress and war go together like white on rice. Ultimately I do not think that there is much here but a fantasy either way, that said, if its a fantasy why not 9 foot tall cannibal science raptors.
>>82329853Security has phasers>>82330313Star Trek changes uniforms every decade or so you never know. In STO tactical and security went red, while engineering and ops stayed yellow
I dont know if it's a hot take to say that the TOS uniforms just dont look good.
>>82333204What don't you like about them?I overall like them, but I personally never cared for the triangles as medals thing.
>>82320389You just know.
>>82333370That there are four lights?
ur mom's new dildos are being shipped
>>82326302Because STD and its derivatives want to look as far from TOS as possible.
>>82325902I wonder if we'll ever move away from "Blue lights=future". Ever since the blue LED was invented sci-fi is overwhelemed with blue lighting. It's been decades now. It's not new anymore.
>>82336330That's what I always liked about Star Trek, wasnt afraid to use a bunch of other colours for their future. Discovery has blue everywhere. So does Prodigy, but to be fair to them I think they only use blue LCARS as a continuation of Nemesis doing it as well.>>82333337They just look like colored shirts rather than uniforms. TNG onwards did the color coding better while still looking more formal. Discovery also managed to give the Enterprise a good version of that uniform just based on how good the fit is. Looking at >>82325902 SNW seems to want to go back to TOS and the lack of a collar on Spock just makes it go back to looking like a colored shirt, while M'Benga is looking pretty good.
>>82333370Kirk and Picard or Picard and the horse?
>>82325071Not Sisko's Dad. He makes jambalaya
GoG's new batch of Star Trek games including Elite Force, Bridge Commander and Armada 3 are mostly on sale right now if you wanna save a couple of bucks and can't be bothered to pirate.
>>82338318>Armada 3I thought that was just a mod for Sins of a Solar Empire?
>>82338318I liked Elite Force, the AI for team mates was excellent and made me try harder to keep them alive - especially since deaths were permanent and affected the story somewhat. Playing a game made 20 years later feels weird, like AI has regressed in that time.
>>82338773You're right, I'm confusing it with Star Fleet Command 3.On the plus side this alerted me to check and yes, Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion and all its expansions are also on sale (at least on steam) if anyone did want to try out the Armada 3 mod, or ages of the federation.
>>82339311I like the smaller scale of AotF better than Armada 3, both are great but the smaller fleet actions in the former doesn't murder my computer.
>>82338755Holy shit, this is terrifying.
>>82338755Thought this was some nft shit
>>82341462AotF is by far the smoother of the 2. Season high makes sense because it’s built off of all the lessons they learned from A3. Looking forward to Border War.
>>82342660Yeah, I can't wait to see the Cardassian roster for the Border Wars mod and the Orions in AotF
>>82339311What role did Galaxies have after the Dominion War? Were they just the comfy luxury boats that ferried ambassadors and admirals around now that they were not the most advanced ships in the fleet?
>>82343556I think some were still given front line/border duty but otherwise they were replacing the Excelsiors as admiralty/ambassadorial ships
>>82343556Same as they were before the war, deep space exploration ships. In fact they'd likely take to that role even more than before since the Sovereign exist as the flagship problem solver class, meaning they don't need to keep recalling the Galaxies from their exploration missions like the Enterprise was.
>>82342861Kitbash of pieces available to the Clarke class. Saw a similar set up around ESD and decided to replicate it for my TOS character. >Centaur saucer and torpedo pod>Clarke Pylons>Miranda Nacelles.
>>82343556They still seem perfectly designed for dedicated exploration. Since they have all the facilities for families and civilians on an extended 5 year mission into unknown places. They have all the lab space for experimentation when they find weird things out in space, the ship itself looks very non threatening to a first contact situation,
>>82343950So is it a really tiny dish or one gargantuan torpedo launcher?
>>82344361Huge fuckin torpedo pod with no visible deflector, Same as on the base Centaur model.
>>82344426Isn't the teeny blue dot on the bottom (somewhat recessed) a deflector? The launchers do definitely look like they should be firing shuttles filled with antimatter.
>>82344627Not on the Centaur model. I think maybe STO’s Miranda torpedo pod has something like that, or even just had it before the visual update.
>>82341345>>82343950>>82344426>Excelsior-style pocket cruiserI love it.
>>82339311>>82338318I never played Fleet Command 3. Is it any good for a new player?
>>82347099It's not the best game of the series (that's Star Fleet Command 2: Orion Pirates) but it's a bit friendlier (fewer things to twiddle with in battle) and set in post-Nemesis era TNG rather than Star fleet Battle's General War era, so it probably immediately more familiar. So sure, should be fine.
What is this cozy fellow?
So would Starfleet really mothball this and never build another one ever again?Seems like a lot of the Admirals at the top might think it would be useful to have a killer on standby just in case.
>>82350316For whatever reason I hate chunky ships. Love my ships looking sleek. Ships like the Defiant or Protostar are too small though and go too far in the opposite direction>>82350984What advantages does it really have? As a Section 31 ship its just too big to be discreet. As an exploration and transport ship like the Enterprise-J it could work, but it was designed to be filled with weapons and as a weapon ship it also seems like there's no point in a fleet of them
>>82350984The warp drive on it seems more advanced than anything else the Federation has. Outside of that it's just a big ship with lots of torpedo launchers on it.
>>82351048Almost every single ship in the JJ verse seems less than useless. Their shields never ever deflect physical objects of any kind, so old fashioned 22nd century missiles and ramming are perfectly on the table. The Enterprise was outperformed by a centuries old NX. Phasers have never successfully locked on to any moving object in three movies, They are seemingly made of tinfoil and paper.
>>82351048It seems to be able to catch up to and enter a warp field of another ship and shoot it down, that seems significant. As well as the phasers just ignore shields.
>>82351256>logic, internal/IP consistency >jar jar abrams "movie"Pick oneLens flare at 11 not optional.
>>82351256>>82351048So what is this guy?>>82350316it seems like the perfect size for a Scout/ Exploratory vessel or Messenger ship. And a good size for players on some sort of Exploratory / Detached duty.
>>82351379That's truly impressive. I'm 100% we've never seen that before. Oh wait:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bJLafQX3lQNot the only example, even in TOS they talked about shooting while at warp (Gorn pursuit was one of them).
>>82351379Yeah but I highly doubt that comes from it's size, which is doing nothing but holding it back from what it seems to actually be good at. It's a wonder a ship doesnt shoot it and it explodes immediately due to there being nothing but weapons behind the ship walls. Hell, a ship that is good at catching up with another ship at warp and shooting it down should probably be prioritizing speed and agility like a stronger Bird of Prey
>>82350984It came across as a jankey prototype that was too big for no good reason. Plus it would have come with really bad pr baggage.
>>82337899you JUST know.
>>82351379Confirmed for never having watched a single goddamn thing Trek
>>82351379You are THIS fucking new and are posting in /trek/? The fuck is wrong with you?
>>82351790Yes, it can do things we have only seen the Borg do, how is this a point? Kelvin Feds have Warp 10 ships that can immediately knock ships out of warp with minimum effort.And your argument was the Borg do that.
>>82352311>Gets BTFO by someone who has actually seen the show>RAAAGE!!!!grow up buddy, you know fucking nothing at all.
Captain Maxwell was right.
>>82352311>Yes, it can do things we haveseen plenty of other ships do, even in TOS era. Don't let simping for abrams and kurtsman blind you to the rest of my post:>Not the only example, even in TOS they talked about shooting while at warp (Gorn pursuit was one of them).
>>82352742Someone said it best recently: he played the "how can there be war crimes if there is no war" reverse uno right back on the cardies, and they cried like bitches for it.
>>82350316Dunno, use reverse image search, or look up the signature. At a glance, someone did a mashup of a tos ship and a Jedi consular ship like you see at the beginning of Phantom Menace.
>>82350316>Adam Ihle>Crossover design>Commissioned piece. Client wanted a mash up of Star Trek and Star Wars tech in one ship. this was the result.
>>82350316>When franchises have a forbidden love affair.Worse than if Wesley and Jaina Solo had hooked up and created a love child of unspeakable power.
>>82350316Mash up of a Constellation class cruiser and an Arquitens light cruiser [pic-related]
>>82350316I saw this in /swg/. It's still shit
>>82350984I think the Vengeance was the only complete ship as the prototype. Plus with Admiral Robocop's plan to start a false flag war with the Klingons, public opinion will be against it. >>82351048Am I the only one who thinks it's retarded for Section 31 to have its own fleet of ships? I get them having couriers and small craft, but dreadnoughts and battleships?
>>82354395Intelligence can do scary shit in fleet at high enough levels.The first "I'm CIA:"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7kvqfvmQ0
>>82354438Fair enough, maybe I'm just getting tired of spooky "I'm CIA" wank like you see in Halo with ONI or Trek with S31.
>>82354487Like everything else, post 2005 trek decided to dial the "YOU THOUGHT THIS WAS KEWL, NOW WE HAVE IT!" to 11, and broke the dial trying to crank it harder.
>>82354487I’ll always say dr who did it best by making their pseudo-cia a group of idiots and bastards actually called “the CIA”
>>82350984>>82351094>>82351379Is there actually any noticeable increase in power or advanced technology from an Abramsverse Enterprise compared to the main timeline? It just seems like they scaled it up and that's it.
Apparently the Trek novels managed to make the worst "O'Brien Must Suffer" episode of all time, by actually killing him and most of the Bajoran system.
>>82357436How is he suffering if he's already dead?
>>82350984It was designed, built, and set out to it's first mission in the span of a year, while done entirely in secret on black book budgets. If Section 31 really wants more of them they can field more in a pinch.Plus we say Yorktown whip up a new Enterprise in what looked like a few weeks at the most. When the first one in the first movie looks like it took about 10-ish years to construct.
>>82357347It has major advances in lagering and hops field manipulation.
>>82357347Speed, they did mention the Vengeance can hit Warp 10, that was mutant salamander levels in Voyager. And the Enterprise can pop over to Vulcan in about 15 minutes. They can transport people from the neutral zone to the Quonos surface too. So the Abrams Feds are incredibly mobile. Voyager might not even be a problem at all in a century. Flying back from the Delta Quadrant might be a 1 year trip at best.
>>82357436Are they just trying to kill off the remaining DS9 cast now, because I heard Ezri got red-shirted in a recent book too.
>>82351048Seems like the Fed version of the D'Deridex/Negh'Var. A big extra powerful ship with more armor and more guns on it built specifically for war. Trek does sort of work on a bigger is better format half the time. where having a larger powerplant means better weapons and stronger shields.>>82351256The third movie did have the Enterprise dish crash at terminal velocity into a planet, ripping though mountains on the way down, and slamming into the ground while still staying in one piece and not even crunching in the impact, and still had functioning power and thrusters after it all. Just little missile ships ripped it apart.
>>82357826They're killing the entire line off with one more book this year, and presumably just writing novelizations from STD and Picard.
>>82357452It's a sweet release for him
>>82358055>presumably just writing novelizations from STD and PicardThat's exactly what they're doing. They're ending the other novels so they can focus on nutrek books.
>>82354395Section 31 ships should not have a remotely similar design philosiphy to Starfleet
>>82360300What's the current threat in the novels? I lost interest when the Typhon Pact novels came around
>>82360541They shouldn't have ships peroid
>>82360541I assume any Section 31 ship would be loaded down with all the illegal and treaty-breaking supertechnology imaginable. Everyone has a phase cloak, that stage 1 Genesis weapon the Klingons used that just annihilates a biosphere, Exocomp drones for all repair needs. That are staffed by androids and clones, any maybe a Betazed or Deltan officer that can mindread any enemy they come across.
>>82360941Why does that sound like something you read on spacebattles?
>>82351256Physical ramming seems to work in most new trek now. Even DIS had Klingon ramming ships since physical objects now ignore shields.
>>82360980Shut the fuck up you know damn well what I'm talking ab out
>>82360746Devidians are wiping out the multiverse, everyone's gonna die.
>>82360300They probably assume that by now there is no one left that can give a shit about DS9. he series ended 20 years ago and never led to anything new like a movie franchise so writers are free to d whatever they want with the properties related to it.
>>82360993Did they bother to give a reason this time or is it like the episode where it's never really explained?
>>82361033The Devidians are a stripping various timelines of life in a feeding frenzy, also they've killed all the Travelers except for Wesley, who's now a Doctor Who ripoff.
>>82360980>I'm only pretending to be stupid
>>82360941Fuck off with this spacebattles shit. No one likes you.
>>82361046>>82360993That's insane and mundane at the same time.
>>82360941This sounds shit, there's being willing to get your hands dirty and then there's just flying in the face of the ideals your existence is supposedly there to uphold. Yes the real secret agencies of the current world are actually legitimately evil but I wouldnt want that extending to Starfleet
>>82361219Wait, isn't that what they do? They use biological terrorism and underhanded bullshit to preserve the Federation?
>>82360941S13 tries to keep a low profile and work through deniable proxies whenever possible.
>>82361248Is that why they fielded a massive drone fleet in DIS? Because they like being subtle and do things only in the shadows?
>>82357648That's ignoring how JJ can't into scale. Grain of salt is the rule here.Also just to be autistic, TOS era warp 10 is not the same as later warp 10 due to a change in how warp scale is determined. Not that JJ would know or care.
>>82361293No, it's because Discovery is written by people who think spectacle trumps all else.
>>82361293Okay well, I think we all now know you are nothing but a spacebattles faggot that only gives a shit about >HUGE splosions! Pew Pew!!Time to fuck off back to your Vs. hole faggot.
>>82361293>Had to use STD as the exampleSo you have no argument, are not actually a Trek fan at all, and are just here to spew bullshit. Got it!
>>82361237I can see them have some nefarious things but absolutely everything at once seems exessive for no reason. They'd use things as they are needed, not have a Rick and Morty tier Citadel ship>>82361293Discovery used section 31 poorly but the best answer to that is their fuckup in Discovery was what led to them going into the shadows
>>82361312Mentioning STD, that kind of proves you know nothing and have watched, well....nothing. fuck off.
>>82361351Are you unable to read a comment chain or what?
>>82361343The best answer to Discovery is to ignore it until the writers bother to start mopping up their own shit. We sure as hell aren't obligated to do it for them.
>>82361351Woah Kizaru, you're speed reading at Warp 9
>>82361387This is what Im doing with the "every warp other than Dilithium failed" thing the 31st century has right now
why is Mike McMahan waiting so long to confirm Mariner grew up on the Enterprise-D
>>82361432Please don't tell me they acknowledged the Romulan design and so on but handwaved them.
>>82361490The only thing they fully acknowleged I think was slisptream tunels being filled with debris.
>>82361372Are you able to fuck off casualfag?
>>82361579Imagine misreading a post so badly, getting corrected, then choosing to die on that hill anyway.
>>82361503I think that actually makes me more annoyed.
>>82361046So the devidians turned into a ripoff of doctor who chronovores? How disappointing.
>>82362134It at least makes sense
Why are the NX and Akira classes so great?
>>82362316Does it, though?
>>82362316If you assume that they're fairly static structures and that unpowered objects remain in them in the long term. This is inconsistent with how quantum slipstreams were portrayed in Voyager. It is quite consistent with how the Vaadwaur subspace corridors worked, except that there was no indication that Voyager knew enough about them to even guess at constructing them and and they were explicitly described as naturally occurring. If they can't be arsed to watch an episode or two about the thing they're referencing (or even read the damn Memory Alpha entry), I'd rather they not bother at all.
>>82361466Probably to get one of Alexander’s actors to voice him.
>>82350984It's basically just a really big ship carrying a lot of guns designed with heavy automation in mind. The automation was required because the whole thing was secret squirrel and they couldn't actually crew the thing. The automation is a liability if you can't properly crew it in combat and pointlessly redundant if you can. While having so much fire power in a single ship is a tactical advantage, on a strategic and operational level it's better to have more ships. And, as STD pointed out in its pilot, all the guns in the world isn't going to help if some Klingon decides to yeet his ship into yours. It's something that is perfect hit-and-run assaults where you can assume superior firepower, but in terms of fleet actions it's nothing special. It's also worth considering that its only showing is up against an already crippled ship.
Ds9: Hard TimeMiles gets 20 years of simulated hard prison. Instead of medically retiring him and sending him back to Earth. So he can be treated for his ptsd. They just send him to ds9 and hope for the best with talk therapy. Ds9 has a vulcan. They should have had her mind meld and snip away at his memories. But telepathy is never useful unless its Spock.
>>82364679They established in the episode that a mind wipe wouldn't work (and I think could cause some neuro issues). Plus, the mind wipe thing was only supposed to be used in the most dire of circumstances. Of course they would try therapy before using a mind wipe. No one realized until he put the phaser to his head how bad it was. Which was kind of the point of the whole sentence.Plus, the Federation aren't the cardies or rommies: they don't just screw around with your head (barring Prime Directive situations). Because even a highly trained Vulcan can get messed up with a mind meld, and there's still the ethical issues involved with going to mind wipe as your default answer.
>>82357826The last book comes out tomorrow.We've had a couple of dead Wesley's, dead Ezri, dead... Nog? On a California. Mostly book-only characters dying off, though. Picard's son's teachers, iirc.It's been good.
>>82364918I want to know how it turns out. But at the same time, I feel like I should read all the hundreds of other books in that continuity first...
>>82364944It's my birthday tomorrow, and both that and the last Expanse novel are being released. FUCKING AWESOME. So jazzed. And the Trek one is written by my favourite Trek author.You can honestly give most of them a miss. The Destiny trilogy was great, and here and there some of the books are pretty damn cool. DS9 can mostly be safely missed unless it's part of a crossover. Parts of Typhon Pact and Section 31 were okay-good. The one where Data came back was terrible - Data's the worst part of Coda. If you want a great novel series, though - Vanguard. Holy shit. That and Destiny got me back into reading the Trek novels after years of skipping them.
>>82364983The only correct thing you just said is recommending Vanguard. The follow up Seekers books are also awesome, and I'm eternally raging they were only allowed to do a handful before being sent back to the mines to crap out more stories with the original series characters.Also >>82364944 - you don't. You really don't. You think you do, it'll nag away at you, "shouldn't I find out how the story ends?", but the answer will disappoint and possibly anger you, because the people involved have such a range of talent(or lack thereof) and motivations(some actual fans, some paycheque-seekers, plenty of "we must claim this IP for Our Side in the Holy Culture War" tards especially in management), and also because there's only been one Star Trek story about things *ending* that was good(ST VI) and even then that was more "moving on to the next phase in life" than "BIG SPLOSIONS, EVERYONE DIES".I just went back and finally read the two sequel/conclusion novels to the Dune series by the original's son and hack partner, and I genuinely wish I'd never been memed into it. The thing you realise as you get older is that the nagging sense of incompleteness you feel from a cliffhanger that will never be resolved is a far better feeling than the haunting dismay that a shitty ending added after the fact by people seeking profit/renown/political vindication will provoke.Be glad we got the shows we did, enjoy them, and ferret out self-contained series like Vanguard that don't try to tell some grand MCU metaplot event or "provide a great send-off" for existing characters. Otherwise you'll end up trying to reconcile inane bullshit like modern Section 31.
>>82365066Don't forget that because the writers and editorial agreed to making a unified Beta canon a lot of major storylines end up either literal resets or endings that for all intents and purposes are resets to the status quo.
>>82365066I said parts of, not all of. Some of it was pedestrian or trying hard to be cool for cool's sake and failed flat.I've actually found more enjoyment from the standalone novels in the range - the Enterprise novels covering the rise of the Federation, some of the TNG books, some of the Titan ones, some of the Voyager ones - but nothing is especially great all the way through.However, they are on average stronger than what they came from. The novels that were running while the shows were on in the 90s were pretty much routinely terrible.And yes, I did forget Seekers, and I was annoyed there were never any more. I love that setting and I love everyone tying together all the batshit crazy TOS-era stuff into a coherent mess.Also that one novel where Kirk fucked Q, but that's another story.I learnt with Star Wars not to touch anything by Kevin J Anderson. Very sad, because he obviously has the ability to produce and it's solid, it's just - uninspired, workmanlike, boring. No matter what he's writing.
>>82365066The only winning move is not to play. Set a date, and nothing after that point is canon. Then you can't be farmed for money by soulless mega corps who don't even care about the IP any more.
r8 this designinb4 complaints about jjtrek engines
>>82367948>in during complaints about jjtrek engines
>>82367948Not bad. I'm biased towards the smaller ships. But why the gap in the bow? If there's a reason for it, then its good, but if its just for a neat shape then get rid of it.
>>82367382>Set a date, and nothing after that point is canon.Well since CBS is only going to do nutrek books soon, they've already set a hard date themselves.
>>82367948I dig it. I’d almost put STD nacelles on it instead, though. Specifically the ones from the Cardenas.
>>82367948Ehhh, could be better, could be a lot worst too.
>>82361735Imagine being a retarded casual nonfan that hangs out in /trek/ threads despite not knowing shit about the franchise.
>>82364353This thing also did the exact same trick of totally ignoring all the enterprise shields and punched right into it. ...Like literally everything else that attacked it in all three movies.
>>82368995It got really annoying how all the JJ movies relied on the same story of big bad super ship bets up the Enterprise, they have to sneak on board to beat it from within.
>>82349914I like how this mage got completely passed over. Honestly I dont think people would hate this so much if the actual Starfleet ships we got in Picard werent so subpar.
>>82368975>still can't read>still acting self-righteous This is funny
>>82369076Jj trek makes star trek 5 look good.
>>82324160Did those lizardmen ever get a proper name?
>>82370894Dont think so, if a LD lore book ever came out though it's possible. The show has a few unnamed species that are actually recurring it would be nice to get some info on.
>>82369076Blowing up or otherwise crippling the Enterprise to forcefully raise the stakes is one of the most tired Cliches of the films. It worked the first time in Search for Spock, but never again after that.
>>82371334It works in store because the enterprise was stolen, no crew, already crippled from fighting KHAAAAANNNNNN, and it was self destruction as a gambit.
>>82369076>>82371334It's what happens in almost all the movies.>WoK Enterprise is damaged and only half works for the rest of the movie>STIII Enterprise blows up>STIV the BoP crashes and sinks into San Francisco bay>STV the Enterprise is a constantly breaking piece of shit>STVI the Enterprise is damaged to the point of being retired>Generations the Enterprise blows up>First Contact the Enterprise loses large portions of the ship and is evacuated>Nemesis the Enterprise is mostly destroyed by bigger badder ship
>>82371189We also do not have a name for the green bird aliens that appear fairly commonly in LD. And majority of the background aliens seen in the crowd shots of TMP and TVH have gone unnamed too. But LD has picked up a lot of totally random aliens from the movies and old 70s animated series and uses them fairly often.
>>82371738I've always wondered about the legal status of the Kzinti in Trek. I know they came up with a couple stand ins for spin offs while other things like Enterprise or LD considered bringing them in/ has an appearance from them.
>>82371738Honestly that seems the most annoying since he's essentially bridge crew.
>>82371711>the Enterprise is damaged to the point of being retiredI thought it was more of the fact the Connies were facing retirement as a whole?
>>82371189I do love stuff like that. I'd like to believe that they're reusing those characters to build a sense of consistency to the world and not just reusing assets.The fact that the ship crew models stay on the ship and the starbase aliens stay on the starbase does lend that some credence.People already have favorites like Jennifer the Andorian, Delta Shift or the fans-named Butterscotch.Lower Decks has more beloved and explored background characters in its hallway scenes then Discovery has of its bridge crew.The show isn't perfect but man they're doing a lot of things right.
>>82372389>not just reusing assetsGoing by I, Excretus they have something like 70 unique models for background crew members.
>>82372389This is my absolute favourite detail. No matter how the missions go, its nice to see that in the end the Cerritos is helping new members open themselves up to the rest of the Federation
>>82371189>800th episodeSomeone is way too optimistic. This will peak and tank faster than the original rick and morty.
>>82372042The language is clearly the singular:"The Enterprise is twenty years old...we feel her day is over."Nothing about retiring the entire line.
>>82374988The 800th episode of the franchise anon. It was the episode were Mariner an Tendi go to the Orion outpost
>>82375005That's the original. The Ent-A was only 7 years old when it was decommissioned. I know some soft canon sources say it was a previous vessel that was rechristened, but the dedication plaque in ST6 says it wasn't commissioned until ST4.
>>82375116If we're talking VI, then Kirk clearly says something about going to another crew. The senior staff were being put in for retirement (as discussed at the beginning of the movie), and it got bumped up after Khitomer.
>>82375106So, they made a big deal about the "800th episode" and it's the sex doll mariner wears blackface episode. Now that's a milestone. I'll stand by my previous comment.
>>82375329>the sex doll mariner wears blackface episodeWell, when you word it like that, it sounds like the perfect 800th episode
>>82375329Do you think that the franchise needed the approval of a 4chan anon before celebrating an episode milestone?
>>82375379I just don’t understand who the fuck describes Star Trek episodes as ‘the X’th episode of the series as a whole”?
>>82375343I didn't hit the slash key hard enough.>>82375379>Do you think that the franchise needed the approval of a 4chan anonBased on the the amount of posting done trying convince everyone how great the show is, one would think so. Generally, the milestone episodes are more noteworthy:TNG's 100th Episode: RedemptionDS9's 100th Episode: The ShipVoyager's 100th Episode: Timeless "Trials and Tribble-ations" and "Flashback" for the 30th anniversary. If they hadn't pointed out this was the 800th episode, no one would have known it. Nothing noteworthy happened, and it wasn't significant in terms of the series, the franchise, or the characters as a whole.
>>82375426Those trying to give it an air of legitimacy, and tie it to better shows, is the likeliest answer. Like a bastard child trying desperately to get the family name.
Does anyone have the Star Trek Shipyards books?
>>82375491Note that those are all milestones within the runs of the shows themselves and not arbitrary number listings the writers have no control over.
>>82375491You're comparing milestone episodes of individual shows to the number of episodes of the franchise on a whole and asking why the 3rd episode of the second season of a show wasnt a special event? This seems like a massive reach just to prove something but it kind of just falls flat.
>>82375426they just want to celebrate a big number, I dont see the harm
>>82375491>Based on the the amount of posting done trying convince everyone how great the show is, one would think so.Ah yes, the classic “everyone I disagree with has something to shill” argument. A modern 4chan classic. Nobody is forcing you to like LD, but you have to realize that other people genuinely do enjoy it. Merch sales and and general internet discussion regarding the show prove this. And think about it, why would Paramount spend money getting pajeets to shill their inexpensive cartoon when they’ve got DISCO languishing in the front yard. If anyone involved with making trek gave a damn about the tabletop gaming board’s Star Trek general they wouldn’t be buying people to say “hrrr Std bad, LD fun,” twenty times a day.
>>82375600no anon CBS needs the 40 people in these threads to watch their show or they'll be finished
>>82375637Also>As if anyone here is getting nu-trek legally
Have you ever incorporated canonical characters into your campaigns? If so, how’d you do it?
>>82375687Where I live I couldnt even if I wanted to lol
>>82375533So you admit they are so dumb they can't count. I figured as much, but it's good to get confirmation.>>82375548>You're comparing milestone episodesYes. Like >>82375559 did here. Note how they are able to count, it be a series milestone, and make it part of a bigger event. And it's berman of all people.
>>82375600>why would Paramount spend money getting pajeets to shill their inexpensive cartoonThat's oddly specific.>>82375759That's because literally everyone passed on international distribution. Everyone.
>>82375886>That's oddly specificNo, it’s not, you bumbling retard. You can’t accuse people of being shills and then accidentally admit that you have no idea how shilling actually works.
>>82375886But P+ is the one that screwed over netflix before cucking themselves to the tune of fan outrage.
>>82375886There are two Trek shows on Amazon Prime anon, its just unavailable where I live regardless. This is also trying to force a point that immediately falls flat.
>>82375913>No, it’s notYou started in on "the approval of a 4chan anon," then "shills" then specifically referred to the street shitters. Ironically, nearly mid day there, round about the time you all hit your stride. Interesting how you manage to tip your hand like that.>>82375938Pulling your content so you aren't competing with your own service domestically isn't "screwing over" anyone. Note, that netflix still passed internationally, and has still passed, after the supposed "success" of the show.>>82375960>force a pointStreaming services are still region based, and require international distribution deals. Nothing "forced" here except the defense.
>>82375723Sparingly, and in such a way that it didn't feel forced or hamfisted. Receiving orders from Admiral Kirk, or being one of the support ships in the Enterprise-D's blockade during the Klingon civil war lets people interact with the big names without making it like "LOOK, YOU KNOW THE GUY/PLACE/SHIP, APPLAUD!">>82376212Beat me to it.
>>82376212I live in a small country that doesnt not get many distribution deals, I still dont have HBO Max either and just got Disney Plus this year. I dont care if you dont like the show but stop piggybacking off my posts to force your memes please
All this because an anon thought CBS was implying Lower Decks was going to get 800 episodes lmao
>>82376423Uh newfag, he's right. If country specific streaming wasn't a thing, VPNs and pirating wouldn't be so popular.
>>82376453More like that was a joke, and poking fun at the series at the same time. No Star Trek series even came close to that mark. The longest running ones didn't even break 200.
>>82376212You cannot seriously believe people are getting paid to post in this irrelevant general.
>>82377081>irrelevant general.If it's so "irrelevant," why are you still here?
>>82371711>STIV the BoP crashes and sinks into San Francisco bayThat's not the Enterprise, plus it happened at the end of the movie. A fully functioning ship in the 20th Century pretty much eliminates all the plot tension from that movie.Plus, all the comedy gold.
>>82377400Because I like to shitpost about Star Trek.
>>82377400If I wanted to be in a relevant place I wouldnt be on 4chan. If Im here I may as well talk about things I like
now that shows are bringing in the Kzinti again do you have any explanation for how the Kzinti Wars could have happened in the timeframe that is implied? Or at least what should be done to reconcile it
>>82382215>Early Earth colonies set up around Alpha Centauri and Sirius>Kzinti claim the worlds soon after because they have valuable mineral deposits>Earth tells them to fuck off>first 3 wars are mostly ground engagements that necessitate the creation of M.A.C.O. >4th time round the Kzinti try to bombard the colonies from orbit>UE impulse ships hold them off long enough for Vulcans to get involved >Kzinti realise they bit off way more than they could chew and agree to treaty of Sirius
Some of the STD ship designs look pretty good, so it's a shame they are so shoehorned in between the ENT and TOS aesthetics. Are we supposed to take the Constitution-class as the result of some admiral glancing at his NX-class refit desk model and thinking "Damn, maybe boxes were a bad choice after all?"
>>82372042The cost of spending more resources on an aging ship that has been half blown up by the Klingons probably factored into that decision. No point in bothering when the ship is already barely functioning in the first place. But Starfleet is not too big on retiring old ships for being old or else we would not still see so many Dedalus, Miranda, Excelsior, and Oberth ships a century later in TNG. It sucks that the main reason we never saw another constitution ever again is because execs did not want to confuse audiences. We never even got a ship that marginally resembled one at a distance like the ambassador again outside of one or two special occasions.
>>82382215Give them to another member of the Federation as part of their own history background rather then just dropping them as an adversary to Earth. Perhaps they bothered the Betazeds, Tellarites or Bolians instead?
>>82382475In-universe, the Connies probably lacked the upgradeability of the Excelsior and Miranda classes. Plus they'd already been around a long time and gone through a major overhaul of questionable practicality. The Excelsior class was intended to be their replacement from the get-go anyway.
>>82382475I would have preferred the Excelsiors and Mirandas to not appear in TNGs time in the first place and have Starfleet routinely replace ship models with the changing times.
>>82382475>But Starfleet is not too big on retiring old ships for being old or else we would not still see so many Dedalus, Miranda, Excelsior, and Oberth ships a century later in TNG.I think this is more of an indication that some starship designs are custom built showcase models that only get built over a short time frame, while others are mass producible, highly modular models that keep getting built for decades, and can also be easily retrofitted.According to dedication plaques seen in the shows, they continued making mirandas until at least the 2340s, and oberths until at least the 2360s
>>82382669Oberths are eternal.
>>82382725Until the Nova class anyway
>>82382835I love the Nova, but it can't carry underslung pods. What's starfleet going to do, throw its pods away?
>>82383028That's why they designed the USS Dust Buster
>>82383028Wouldn't be too hard to modify the Nova to carry a Nebula/Antares style mission pod
>>82320389>Thread Topic: at what point does a species become incompatible with federation values?The Dominion
Why did they decide to do a pre-TOS show after everything DS9 had set up by the end?
>>82383112I never understood why the Mirandas had the big giant phaser rayguns, and the normal phaser ball turrets at the same time.
>>82382475>It sucks that the main reason we never saw another constitution ever again is because execs did not want to confuse audiencesIt's less that and more every time it came up to use the movie Enterprise model it was pointed out just how much of a bastard that thing was to rig up, to the point it was literally cheaper and easier to build an entirely new high quality ship model for filming (Constellation) than very carefully break out that fucker from storage, wire it up with it's insane clusterfuck of cabling, and shoot a few shots.
>>82383165Because by the time DS9 ends Voyagers is wrapping up as well.DS9 as amazing as it is, pretty much solved all the issues or at least delayed them for a very VERY long time.>Klingons are now our allies>Romulans are much more willing to listen>Cardis were all most purged from the galaxy>Ferenegi are now pozzed>Dominion is beat badly and literally almost lost their "gods". Odo is also now with them having them learn about the solidsThrow Voy in to the mix and the Borg are destroyed and the Q are fucking. Everyone else they introduced is so far away that they dont matter. Besides maybe Species 8472. We have...Pakleds left. According to STO the Gorn are part of the Klingon Empire so we can't really use them.Now a series about rebuilding after a literal galaxy war sounds like a great idea to me. But they wanted ACTION. Look at Voy and Ent.
>>82383193You just wait until Pakleds figure out engineering, then you'll be sorry.
>it's yet another TOS episode where an alien species we've never seen before and will never see again somehow have ships on par with a Constitution-class, even when it's established you need the resources of something like the Federation or the Klingons to build a ship that powerful
>>82383165Because it's easier to market.They don't need to bring audiences in on a heavily detailed setting with running plotlines, and they can use the timeframe for nostalgia bait over the most well known TOS stuff. After a certain point with long running settings like this there's basically 3 options to get new/expanded audiences as far as producers are concerned:Prequel for reasons as stated above.Reboot: basically the same but with even stronger built in marketing of it's Thing you already know but with more freedom to try different approaches. Jump Forward: As TNG did, just go forward enough that it's detached from prior stuff but can still use the name and references, maybe bring in the original actors if it's not been too much time in real time. Not a very popular option due to it being almost as much work as selling an entirely new, unestablished brand to people.
>>82383193>We have...Pakleds left.Imagine if they, dare I say it, introduced something new?
>>82383193> We have...Pakleds left. Hot Tholians near you take umbrage at that statement.
>>82383447Tholians were never a villain.
>>82383491Neither were Pakleds.
>>82383447Tholians in DS9 were what the Breen were in TNG: a race we keep hearing about and never see.
>>82382530I actually really like this idea, just starting a feud between other early Federation members sounds like a great idea. Could give us some pre TNG lore to them too by using a place like Betazed.>>82383193Im sure they would not have been afraid to just make the Romulans go back to being villains again. The big problem is they needed to show off their prosthetics too and only Klingons could really allow that unless they were actually willing to do a war with the Gorn.
>>82383180STA's take is that the Miranda was designed at a time when war with the Klingons seemed inevitable. When that changed, their armaments got scaled back. I guess some of the old warship aspect hung around.
>>82383165Late 90s, early 00s Trek only ever copied other people's ideas.>Matrix makes a lot of money? B&B invent Unimatrix Zero! Where the machine race has controlled humans who fight back in a simulated environment with a mostly similar sounding name!>Lucas is making prequels? B&B invent Enterprise where we get a special prequel to TOS!>People like Predator? B&B invent HirogenIt goes on like that for a while, but they just watched other scifi movies and tv shows and then made poorly copied ripoffs into their Trek series.
>>82383180Filming convention. It was to make a very easily recognizable difference between an extreme closeup of the enterprise firing phasers from the Reliant firing phasers. If they both fired from the exact same looking little ball thingy on the exact same looking underside of a dish it would confuse audiences. They needed some means of instantly displaying this is Khan shooting or this is Kirk shooting.
>>82383310Half the ships of the week were on par with the Ent-D. Ferengi seemed to normally have the upper hand when they showed up.
>>82383310Yeah well tech curve
>>82383713>People like Predator? B&B invent HirogenHirogen are less that and more an alien version of the Great White Hunter.
>>82383774They literally had the skull wall from predator?
>>82383774Nah, the creators outright said they were supposed to be the Yautja from predator. That and dudes in football armor because Braga and Fuller were watching a game the night before and thinking about how big those dudes were.
>>82383364Yeah and look how the Kazon turned out. Species 8472 only worked because of how utterly alien they were to everything else in Trek, then that got ruined by having a "they're just like us" episode.
>>82383853>Anything in Trek ever being ruined by establishing it's just like us
>>82383895It is when the entire appeal of the species is their exotic nature.
>>82383903And how is that removed? Is the Horta no longer exotic because it's just a mother trying to protect her children?
>>82383808No one cucks like Gastonor breaks bucks like Gaston.
>>82383914The Horta is basically just a big lava slug, that's a little different from a spacefaring species that have an extreme social darwinist mindset and can also infiltrate societies like the Dominion.
If we wanted to try and give new stories to a Trek writer who wants action in the post Nemesis era we could just introduce a new major player from here or any of the other unexplored places in the main 2 quadrants
What's the worst movie? I'm tempted to say Nemesis and yes it's the worst from a ST point of view, but it's actually a pretty good action movie so at least it succeeded there where FC didn't really.
>>82384033Nemesis killed Star Trek.
>>82384052Star Trek went on for 3 more years after Nemesis.
>the episode where Odo exterminates an entire colony of people because he's a simpshifter.
>>82384067It was not a nice, fast death.
>>82384033I want to say Into Darkness, but on its own it's still a high-budget sci-fi action movie.
>>82383774Big armored reptile guys who are "Honorable" and use personal cloaks....
>>82384023that involves bothering to be original or creative.
I’m amazed that STP exists after the absolutely reviled box office flop that was Nemesis. You’d think it would have helped the higher ups realize that nobody wants ‘action man Picard saves the day on his own’
>>82384626TV flop and movie flop are different things to be fair
>>82384023Or they could have just gone the STO route and snapped the Romulan Empire in half, then played around with that instead of whatever the hell PIC was.
>>82384626Box office mentality and streaming service TV mentality are entirely different. Movies ideally have to actually make money by getting people actually wanting to buy tickets to see it. With streaming services they don't give a rats ass because it's just 10 more hours of CONTENT that they can add to the library, and it doesn't matter how many people are actually watching as long as the total subscriber count goes up. And that's not getting into typical Hollywood math fudging the numbers for tax write-offs.
>>82384626Are you implying they thought PIC wasn't cerebral? Also there was the overwhelming nostalgia bait factor.
>>82383310How often did that actually happen?
>>82384120He's OUR simpshifter damnit!
>Fallout New Vegas is an alternate universe where Odo never got home after being sent back in time to Roswell with Quark and fell in love with VegasGive me the Latinum Chip, Courier
>>82385327Mr House being a Changeling would add a new layer of depth to why he's so secretive, but it also would mean his body in the pod makes no sense because Changelings are ageless.
>>82385327Huh, now that I think of it WW3 in the Fallout and Star Trek timelines only happen a couple decades apart.
>>82385370Only because Star Trek kept pushing back when WW3 happens. Originally it was the 1990s, now it's the 2040s
>>82385351The pod is just a very advanced bucket.
Kira>You can't forgive collaborators after what we went through!Kira after learning her mom was sleeping with Dukat>She just did what she had to do...Kira after lying to Odo about assassinating someone in the past>I did what I had to doKira after learning Odo lied about an event in his past>How can I ever trust you again?!Between her and Ensign Ro, Bajorans ARE supposed to be sympathetic, right? I'm supposed to NOT hate them, correct?
>>82385495Huh, it's like DS9 had character development and complex characters in complex situations or something like that.
>>82385738Seems to me more like she was written inconsistently, like how The Darkness and the Light ignored everything she learned in Duet.
>>82385738The line behind complexity and bad writing is whether the discrepancies are acknowledged or conveniently ignored
>>82385751If that's what you actually think then why are you blaming the characters and races instead of the writers, especially when you can provide plenty of examples of "inconsistent writing" for every character in the franchise?
>>82385495Lots of that's backwards. Sisko's the one who tells Kira her mom sleeping with Dukat was "what she had to do" and Kira still hates her for it and is ambivalent about having saved her. Kira's the one who asks Odo if he can ever trust her after she lied to him about the assassination, and when Odo tells her about letting the innocent's die, she's disappointed (because she and others held him up as a paragon of impartial justice) but essentially tells him she understands and that nobody could realistically live then and not do something fucked up. And the most damning thing of all? Jet Phantom's way better than Magnum.
>>82385777It sounds like he was straight up criticizing an aspect of bad Trek writing, specifically a kind that kicks in when they depict Bajorans.
>>82385839>And the most damning thing of all? Jet Phantom's way better than Magnum.Wasn't a thing until 2nd OGs
>>82385408That's because the 60's believed that the US would continue spending money on NASA. Apollo program was cut which meant no manned mission to Mars in the 80's. Always sad to see all the neat projects NASA had planned and have been delayed by 40+ years.
>>82385882I know, but it's pretty great.
>>82385408>now it's the 2040sOfficially? Because it's my understanding that was just a script discrepancy
>>82385918According to First Contact which mostly takes place in the 2050s, Data says it's been about 10 years since WW3. Plus, we know from DS9 in the Sanctuary City episodes that it hadn't happened yet by 2024.
>>82384711I agree with this
>>82385935Wait, I'm thinking about the Eugenics Wars. When was WW3 supposed to have happened in the 90s?
>>82386017Spock says in Space Seed that the Eugenics Wars kicked off WW3
>>82385935>Sanctuary CityThankfully WWIII solved the world overpopulation problem allowing humanity to enter a utopian era.
>>82386111The problem wasn't overpopulation, it was unemployment.
>>82386025He said they were in the same era, but it appears that while WW3's date might have shifted, the Eugenics Wars did not (though it also means that genetic engineering continued and was one of the factors leading up to the third world war).
>>82386179>but it appears that while WW3's date might have shifted, the Eugenics Wars did notWhich kinda doesn't make sense with the shit we see in DS9
>>82386221From what we learn about the world at the time, it doesn't sound like 20 years ago it got carved up and controlled by a bunch of supermen.
>>82386125Often one leads to the other>>82386324the supermen got booted off the planet, then for the next 20 years things went into further decline
>>82384814Gorn for sure.Maybe Fesarius, although that might be better classified as super-alien of the week.Maybe you count the Romulans, although they are pretty close to peers of UFP/Klingons.Maybe you count the Tholians, although since the Enterprise was pretty disabled it's not clear it's actually a peer.
I think with Season 4, Discovery has finally found its groove and place in Star Trek canon. It's basically all the classic sci-fi tropes you see in Asimov and Heinlein and other authors of the Golden Age that Gene tried so hard to stay away from with TOS and TNG and that later writers never understood. Trek is finally exploring deep, meaningful themes about human society and our relationship with technology instead of being the milquetoast franchise that everyone knows about because it's been running so long and has never dared to utter a platitude even a tiny bit original.
>>82384152I always forget Into Darkness exists. That's how bad it was.
>>82384023Explain why even the two-bit nothingburger special guest star aliens have such huge empires in the Delta Quadrant when the Borg are supposedly fucking everybody up but the entirety of explored Federation/Romulan/Klingon space is so cramped and full of wars. I can't seriously believe the FUCKING MALONS are as big and powerful as the Klingon Empire.
>>82384711They did snap the Romulan Empire in half. Not just in STO but also in the books. Then everybody realized it was a stupid idea and they merged the empire back into one state.
Would anyone have a chart kind of like the one on Lasers & Feelings where you roll several times to come up with an adventure on the fly?
>>82387176Malon space is probably mostly places they've dumped garbage that no one wants to deal with, so they leave them alone. The Voth I could see holding that much territory; they might actually out-tech the Borg. Krenim space does seem big, but we know that at least some of them were assimilated and they have a lot of expertise in temporal fuckery, so the Borg might not be going full-tilt at them (either because they're being picky, it's not worth the expected losses, or they're waiting for the tech to mature so they can take it then).That last one's a bit of a stretch, admittedly.
>>82387114Which review did you pull this from?
>>82387192>Then everybody realized it was a stupid idea and they merged the empire back into one state.That sounds like the more retarded situation
>>82387114The problem with some Discovery reviews is that people shit on the show so much that some people feel the need to jab at the other shows in return. Despite what other people here think I wouldnt even disagree that Discovery has found it's groove, but to imply its not as generic as the rest of the franchise or even moreso is utter madness.
>>82360941Realistically, a Section 31 ship should, under no circumstances, be identifiable as a Section 31 ship. They should have a collection of what look to anything but detailed, expert inspection to be merchant vessels, fast couriers, pleasure craft, and in addition to those maybe the one or two of the spaceship version of the USS Jimmy Carter. Ships used for quietly listening, moving things around, and occasionally having a small team show up to quietly do unpleasant things.Because what the fuck does an intelligence agency need with a fleet of warships with doomsday weapons? It's not like those weapons can be used for anything without risking giving the game away, and indeed, the more you use 'em the more likely it is someone will look at the pattern of destruction and figure out what you have.To quote Col. Gathers: "This is intelligence. Start using it."
>>82387541I think Discovery brings people who would not otherwise be Trek fans into Trek, and that's why they dunk on the old stuff.
>>82386892The Tholian ships in TOS weren't all that impressive at all aside from their web beams, the one time the Enterprise shot one was enough to make them fuck off.
>>82387114Nice shitpost but too unbelievable, even the people who actually like STD don't think it's doing any of that.
>>82387176Everything on that map except the borg and maybe dominion is drawn a thousand times too large anyways desu, the galaxy should be filled with thousands of races with territories as big as the ones in the alpha quadrant.
>>82387114Show me people buying t-shirts, box sets and merch. Otherwise I won't believe you.
>>82387932But then what is the point?If those new fans try out the old stuff and go 'ew', why even call it Star Trek at all?You can't get old fans to like Discovery, you can't get the new fans into classic Trek, so where's the money?
>>82387684>It's not like those weapons can be used for anything without risking giving the game away, and indeed, the more you use 'em the more likely it is someone will look at the pattern of destruction and figure out what you have.Probably just there as a last resort. And there are plenty of douchey terrorists groups out there to blame stuff on.>>82387176It is a bad fan made map>>82384711>>82387192PIC kind of implies that many Romulans are no longer ruled by a central government, so who knows whether the faction controlling the borg cube and secretly ruled by the anti-AI tools is even the biggest one.
>>82360941Please, they're not STO players
Do you think people will be making shitposts like this 20 years after STD ends?https://twitter.com/joshuamartian/status/1460929458152431622
>>82388147nuTrek's only purpose is to get people onto Paramount's streaming service. The old stuff can't reliably do that because it's niche. It's why PIC and STD are formulated for normies.
>>82388160Wait, if whoever possesses the blockchain is the owner of the NFTs, then if you steal the blockchain aren't those NFTs yours?
>>82388275I don't know how this shit works.
>>82388278It's a scam, retards pay money to be given a link to an image and they think that means that they "own" the image itself, because they're retards.
>>82387684I'll add to that; Starfleet already has an intelligence agency. The creatively called Starfleet Intelligence. And by all accounts they do a good job. An agency that doesn't work on reputation works on results.Section 31 by comparison is (supposedly) composed of small groups of clandestine cells. They don't use grunts and soldiers, and you should never have enough members together in one place to even be able to crew an entire ship.Their actions would be reviled by any regular citizen of the Federation, let alone any member of Starfleet, so they would always be operating under proxies, aliases and lies.They're not the ones who gather intel, spy or analyze; they're the ones who'll drop monstrously unethical ordnance on any perceived, possible or future threat to the Federation that they themselves decide the Federation is too feeble to deal with.
>>82388300>they would always be operating under proxiesThis in particular is how I see it. Section 31 doesn't need many ships beyond whatever they use to get their agents place to place in secret, nearly everything else they do would involve manipulating starfleet or someone else into unknowingly doing exactly what they want.
>>82388188>The old stuff can't reliably do that because it's niche. It's why PIC and STD are formulated for normies.Ironic, I'm sure if you asked normies if they watch star trek, what comes to their mind will always be TOS or TNG.
>>82388188I get that, but they want new blood that they know doesn't watch the old stuff, yet they called it Trek.What did Star Trek offer them that making a new market-study positive show wouldn't? It's not the old fanbase, and it did nothing for their new audience; they're not going to watch any of the old stuff.I have to assume it's something to do with investors or shareholders, because what else could it be?
>>82388300It helps that outside of Bashir and O'Brien no one below the rank of Captain is aware of Section 31's existence
>>82388364>What did Star Trek offer them that making a new market-study positive show wouldn't?Brand recognition. Star Trek is an established property which semi-recently had a big screen revival that showed ST could be young and hip and exciting. The suits could either start building an entirely new no-name brand with zero hype, or do this.
>>82388160People will stop talking about that show the day after it ends. It's fans will remember it fondly, but they will need to be reminded it exists first.The show has too little cultural momentum for it to not get swept away by the next big show to come out.Like how many people still talk about Prison Break, Heroes, Lost, etc.Everyone always goes "Oh yeah I remember liking Lost", but noone ever brings it up on their own.
>>82388542Yeah that does make sense. A generation of people whose only contact with Star Trek was the reboot movies and the cultural collective conscious idea of Star Trek, and you'd offer them a tv show to match what the movies offered.
>>82388160>they stole my apes Odo
>>82388370And seemingly every cunt above the rank of Captain is, which kind of makes a mockery of the whole concept.Every appearance of Section 31 after like, their first two in DS9 places their stated scope, reach, and nature and their actual depiction at complete odds, with the discrepancy growing more and more farcical each time they appear, and the fact they've supposedly existed with the tacit approval of pretty much everyone "in the know" in the upper echelons of the Fed government and Starfleet for the whole duration of the Federation makes the entire foundational premise of Star Trek as a series - that the Federation are basically right about everything and us the viewers should seek to make their superior future into reality - into a complete joke.Fuck Section 31, for reals yo.
>>82388290or worse, they're not retards, and they're just using it for money laundering/scamming the retards.
>>82388993The people who are selling the scam aren't retards, but the ones who buy it certainly are.
>>82388617Nah, most of the people I know who like it are TNG and DS9 fans that just don't care about worldbuilding or consistency.
>>82388756There was like one admiral who knew about them in DS9.