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Distinguishing scifi and fantasy is stupid, and limits creativity. There are a bunch of ideas that people won't use or are unfamiliar with because it's associated with one genre or another.
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>>82314825
Why not add something to this opinion? Perhaps make a suggestion instead of shouting into the room, looking for (you)s?
What sort of ideas are often not used? What are some examples?
What elevates the product when both are combined?
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So is there anything about her that implies Atlantean ancestry other than being a shork brain?
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>>82314860
When magic in space operas is usually quite limited for example. Take star wars, even with wizards in space outside of EU works you won't see a dude running around flinging fire balls and shit with magic on a space station. Sometimes you cna get crossover, such as shadow run, but that suffers from a poor system. If people stopped making the dumb distinction you might see the ideas found in shadow run and starfinder actually meet a good system.
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>>82314885
Okay, so how about we brainstorm a wizard in the space station? How does that work? Does he still use old world ritual despite the far flung future he's in? Can he get robots to do the ritual instead? How do others regard his practices? Are his magics replicated or eclipsed by tech?
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>>82314937
>Does he still use old world ritual despite the far flung future he's in?
Yes, wizards can be a way to contrast tradition with modernity.
>robots
Robots are souless, so no
>how do others regard
Same way we regard boomers
>replicated
In the vein of non mages being able to use scrolls as proxy, you have tech capable of doing it as well.
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Oh shut up, even if there is a lot of crossover between different genres, doesnt mean there arent certain themes and conventions found within them. Genres are descriptive and work as a shorthanded way to describe something. I can either say my setting is within the solar system with recent efforts to colonize the varying celestial bodies with technological advancements, or i could just say its a scifi setting based in the solar system, and you will get the gist, with some expectations on technology from popular media. the other part being themes, although you can find advancement of technology as themes in genres like fantasy and horror you expect it to be much closer to the front and center in scifi works. Having the ability to have a shorthand way, such as a genre name, to say what themes to expect is also nice rather than having to list a bunch every time. I agree with you that people can get too caught up with the conventions limiting creativity, but that doesnt mean a distinction between genres is inherently bad.
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>>82314825
What traditional games are you referring to?
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>>82315029
>model doesn't include even half of it's own listed genres of speculative fiction
This is useless. The Lord of the Rings is more science fiction than fantasy because it involves Saruman advancing science but the gods aren't even talked about that much. But it's mostly horror because people die and are afraid and even driven insane by the ring.
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>>82315092
The other genres of speculative fiction are entirely their own things. Take alternative history, that can be science fiction or fantasy or even horror, but things don't tend to trend towards alt hist, it either is or isn't. Compared to scifi, fantasy, and horror wherein things trend towards them, such as LoTR or Foundation. Same can go for dystopian fiction, dystopian fiction is its own thing, can be any other combination of genres, but within speculative fiction it's themes are too niche and your won't see works trend towards it in a gradual manner, either the work is dystopic, or isn't. Scifi, fantasy, and horror are much, much broader genres that encompass a number of themes and can combine with each other or any other genre, so lots of stories can easily fall within that triangle, and depending on what is going on in it you'll see a work float between it.
>that shit take on themes
Death and insanity are two major themes of horror, but if your story places more thematic focus upon other facets such as say war itself, with death and insanity being secondary to it, it's not going to trend to horror unless it keeps the tone there as well. You'd have to be absolutely retarded to not see how shit like advancements in technology is typically associated with scifi, but unless there is major focus upon that theme in the story it's usually ignored. Like fantasy settings may have guns as the up and coming new thing but because it doesn't pay much heed the theme of new technology is of little importance to no importance when prescribing a genre name to it.
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>>82315092
youre either a retard or being extremely disingenuous if you think that merely 3 themes is the entirety of what makes a genre a genre, nta but even i can tell what was going on there
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>>82314825
Is this your new spam subject? Why do you hate /tg/?
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>>82315162
>>82315152
>being disingenuous
Sorta fair. Especially since I was attacking an image instead of the actual good arguments Anon was making. But genre is based on feel and trying to chart it out is dumb, You could also easily write a horror story set in Middle Earth or a narrative where the theme of new technology is the entire point which sort of proves OP right.
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>>82314825
I mean Fiction is supposed to be whatever you want, If you want a scifi setting that's for exploring your theories of how technology's Progression effects people and how we interact with the world go for it hard scifi and all that, but if you want a space setting to put all the cool potential Ideas you got and express stuff through wacky adventures and wars and shit sure good science fantasy, there's literally no point in constricting what you make or consume everything has a purpose not everything has to be the same
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>>82315379
Which in that chart is still doable, it's not like a story can't incorporate elements of all 3 to a great extent and be dystopic, all allowed by that image. I think you may have just misunderstood it. There's blurry parts in these sort of images for a reason. Besides, I think the point of that chart is less to being autistic in TV tropes manner(especially since it sources Wikipedia), but more to just show retards like OP that there is of course overlap between genres of speculative fiction, especially extremely broad genres like fantasy and scifi, but that doesn't mean the genre doesn't exist, and that certain ideas are usually found within it.
>genre is based on feel
This is a horrible simplification of it anon. It's based on a combination of themes, tones, setting, etc. It's not just merely the feel of a story, as otherwise we'd simply have tragedy and comedy.
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>>82314937
>a wizard in the space station
He is a member of the Wizard Federation, sent to the station to steal captain's hat.
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>>82314825
Science fiction is inherently a limitation in and of itself. You can't add fantastical elements to it without removing what makes it science fiction.
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>>82315965
is Dune science fiction?
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Posting shity pulp most havent read
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>>82314825
Why do you think 40k is the most popular IP on this board? Because it doesn't do that. It's got giant robots and space ships fighting daemons and elves with energy swords.
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>>82315965
the only limitation is the authors' capability of explaining shit that looks magical, or how much they limit or explain how things work
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>>82316029
>>82316109

Anons, you made me interested in them, thank you.
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>>82315662
Problem is fantasy and sci-fi are the same genre.
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>>82316332

One with a bit of space more than the other.
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>>82315379
>trying to chart it out is dumb
No, treating it as prescriptive rather than descriptive is dumb.
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>>82314825
OK.
Bye.
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>>82315092
>The Lord of the Rings is more science fiction than fantasy
Dishonest faggot. Fucking hang yourself.
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>>82314825
I don't think it's stupid to separate between sci-fi and fantasy when it comes to literary genres. I think there's enough of a separation when it comes to popular motiffs and appeals to warrant it.

But I do think that it shouldn't limit your creativity, and that anyone that actively opposes cross-pollination or conceptual interminglings between the two, or people that try to create a hard divide between them, are actual, literal, retards and/or hyperautists, and we should unironically but them into some kind of industrial blender and have the remains flushed out into the ocean.
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>>82315162
you're either an autist or an autist if you think that he wasn't being deliberately facetious in order to raise a point.
>PPS0Y captcha
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>>82314860
>complaining instead of contributing
you sound annoying af
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>>82314937
he's a sufficiently advanced alien even by sufficiently advanced human standards
like Q in Star Trek
which is shit btw
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>>82314965
>Robots are souless
how about a robot designed to hold and protect a lich's phylactery?
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>>82315029
i'm too drunk to understand all this shit but i think i disagree
alien or event horizon are pretty cool horror/sci-fi
and dying earth/new sun are nice fantasy/scifi
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>>82315059
your mom's
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>>82317586
I've always wanted to do a Lich that puts his phylactery inside of a tremendously powerful Golem that he works incessantly on, actually.

And if push ever comes to shove, he'll literally transfer his consciousness into the golem, using it as his own body, after an appropriate "fools, this is not even my final form!".
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>>82315260
>>>/40k/
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>>82316023
I'd say yes
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>>82316251
>40k
ever heard of this 70's thingy called 'Star Wars'?
look it up it's pretty cool
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>>82317646
be sure to have an appropriate overpowered escape pod coming out of it/teleporting/plane shifting in case it's defeated
and back ups
never forget to back up
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>>82314825
>Distinguishing scifi and fantasy is stupid,
Yes

>and limits creativity.
Which is not a bad thing, because creativity can be encouraged by imposing limits, even arbitrary ones.

>There are a bunch of ideas that people won't use or are unfamiliar with because it's associated with one genre or another.
That sounds more like ignorance and bias than anything else. Which I also loathe. My hate-driven reading led me to find the fantastic, that is, concepts and things which might evoke wonder, in reality and sci-fi.

I am still amazed by things like Polynesian maritime navigation, medicinal cannibalism, declaring war on someone to steal their art, possible diamond rains in Saturn, warm-blooded plants, that the craziest way to reach the Kuiper Belt is also the most practical and that, although we have already created circuits through evolutionary design, engineers dislike them. Have added a couple of these things to my "fantasy" setting.
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>>82315092
>the lord of the rings is science fiction because sauron andvances science
i bet you think a villain who hates gays makes the whole work homophobic
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>>82317646
put the construct at the end of a terribly frustrating dungeon with traps that teleport the victim to a room and the victim's equipment to another
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>>82317726
Planar travel/teleportation is relatively restricted in my setting, but now that you mention it, I could have a pneumatic tube container shoot out of the golem if (when; let's be honest) it is defeated, containing the phylactery, and unfold into a bird-like drone that attempts to fly away at incredible speed once unfolded.

Until next time, meddling kids!
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>>82318089
>>Distinguishing scifi and fantasy is stupid,
>Yes
Explain why, it's useful to have them as descriptive names, so that way if someone wants to read something that is high tech, set in space, with futuristic ideas on various matters being common they can just say scifi rather than having to explain details.
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>>82314825
>No you can't say genres exist
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>>82314825
/vt/ranny has stupid opinion
Who could have seen this coming.
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>>82318203
>unfold into a bird-like drone that attempts to fly away at incredible speed once unfolded.
why just one?
you need at least three of them speeding in opposite directions
wtf do you even contingencies dude
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>>82315965
Name one piece of science fiction that doesn't have made up bullshit.
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>>82314965
How is it that he can't get Robots to perform a ritual but a wizard can use inanimate objects as a conduit to perform magic spells? What difference is there in infusing magic into a wand or a robot? It would be no different than creating a stone golem that's able to perform pre-determined spells as I see it, with the exception of the fact that a robot with advanced AI could possibly manipulate the magical formula to perform other spells or rituals
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>>82319200
Andromeda Strain



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