>Princehood edition>Previous Thread>>81702166>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttp://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw> White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page> OWOD/COFD Forums:http://forum.theonyxpath.com/Where to buy what you need (Check all links for full selection):> White Wolf Catalogue:https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/1/White-Wolf> Onyx Path Publishing Catalogue:https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/4261/Onyx-Path-Publishing> Fan-made Stuffhttps://www.storytellersvault.com/>Thread QuestionWhat would a VTM city management game look like?
Have you thanked the Weaver today?
>Unobfuscated Title EditionTQ: A lot of it would revolve around methods of preferred hunting, and thus how you would focus and/or seperate the kine out to be plucked. You'd probably have to give each clan a general method, and then balance around it. You'd have to manage surprise Masquerade breaches, Nosferatu "accidently" blocking up the sewers for their lairs, maintain proper parks for the Gangrel, etc.
>>81724824Eh I always found it odd how art and midia are Weaver and Wyrm rather than the Wyld.
>>81724883And maybe you could interact with mortal institutions like gangs and police using them as puppets
>>81724907Philosophically it makes sense. Art (which is related to the word artifice, artifact and artificial) has always described mankind's ability to refashion and reorder nature to his purposes.Even when it took on its modern meaning of "item created for beauty", art keeps the essence of re-ordering. After all, even if an artist is creating something from his whims and passions, he is still enforcing an order on the canvas/clay/marble/etc. to reflect his vision of beauty.If anything, art represents the positive aspects of the weaver, it's highest potential had it not gone mad.
What is your current characters ambition? Tell me his last setbacks and how he overcame them. How would he deal with an influx of supernatural beggars (Burr Cadgers) that squat all over the freehold? Would he be nice to them or go full genocide?You have games, right? You're not just a secondary who only reads books, cherrypicking stuff to brag about and daydreams about how cool it would be to be a Supernatural in real life, right?Because that would be very sad and pathetic
>>81724815>OP appreciation edition>>81725009Yeah, you right. Secondary daydreamers AIR?
>>81724907The Wyld cannot create art, it can only create beauty (in the form of a volcano erupting or similar). Art is fundamentally artificial and thus of the Weaver
>>81725009Hi ST how you doing?>Would he be nice to them or go full genocide?Yes, after getting some glamour and WP back its hard to comit warcrimes as a starving spider child
>>81724980>>81725241Fair points. I was mostly thinking from a memetic angle. art being analog to life, being ''born'' changing to survive or be forgoten faster than any natural life
>Hunter 5 beats Mage 5 to be published first>Magefags on suicide watch>Powerwank levels dropping worldwide>Also new tv series, probably Hunter-related
>>81725273Just leave the Hedge and stop triggering the summer kings right hand man.WP is easy. Just do what your needle/thread suggests or learn that one contract that turns glamour into 2 wp.>>81725311If only
>>81725311Speaking of HtR what the diference between them and the Vigil ones?
>>81725009>>81725273>>81725330Stop samefagging Hedgefag. No one is falling for itKYSYS
>>81725311Magefags got a shit 20th anniversary edition, a meme cookbook and Phil-wanking. Now based Swedes are ignoring them to skip Hunter several editions to a 5th edition. Sad!
>>81725311$20 that a Not!BLM Hunter group will be one of the ones "fighting the unjust status quo".
Do you share Beats in the group or do you let everyone earn them individually?
>>81725347>Reckoning hunters were special people imbued with angelic superpowers.>Vigil hunters are mostly regular people with guns (tier 1), secret groups with exceptional skills (tier 2) or international groups with special powers unique to their group (tier 3). >HtR hunters were their own supernatural splat, basically>Vigil hunters vary vastly in power levels but the focus of the game is more on the cell and street level>oWoD vs CofD2e basic mechanics are quite different, obviously
>>81725565Group beats, keeps people on the same page powerwise
>>81725565Group beats for me, because individual beats are annoying.
>>81725565Individually. Player effort, skill and cleverness should be rewarded. Additional beats for great teamwork too, if everyone pitched in and worked well together.
>>81725608thanks for the overview
>>81725548That'd be pretty great, even if it's just to see how much it rustles your jimmies.
>>81725843You could probably fill it out with the other organizations, ala the First Contact supplement.
>>81725843>demon 5th edition rulesetPLEASE.
I have never seen such a confused design game compared to the fluff as Demon the Fallen other than maybe Mummy the Curse.
>>81725888I've only read 2e but it feels pretty much like exactly what it wants to be.
>>81725843>no H20 because it wasn't their call to makeWho is responsible for this fuckery?
>>81725913It pretty much doesn't. Have you even read the Guilds section and some of the character concepts it throws out? Or how it discusses how the society of the Arisen interact with each other? The first half of the book seems to be under the impression that you're playing the Old World of Darkness Mummy where you have a long continuous lifespan able to slide into positions within mortal societies that require long term dedication when the gameloop is the opposite of that.
>>81725940>>81725843Just a reminder that Paradox does not want the Apocalypse Record kickstarter being promoted because it might 'confuse' people.
>>81725940The idiots behind V5 probably don't want people to be distracted from their precious Second Inquisition.
LOL @ anime vtuber girls upending a 20-year-old game line.
>>81726065It's really weird how the CofD discord and whitewolf subreddit don't care about these games. Just goes to show you that the majority of the community isn't weebs, it's strange 30+ men.
>>81726086>the majority of the community isn't weebs, it's strange 30+ men.>Implying those two things are different
>>81726097A lot of the weird strange 30+ men you see these days really hate anime but for some reason love gender politics. Go figure.
>>81726065and is there a problem with that?>>81726032Jokes aside the plot is fine but ffs their implementation so far has ben dog shit
Hunter V5 update:>No Imbued >Creeds and Edges but different>Focus on drive and determination>Manuscript ready in 2 weeks>Fast-track release might beat Werewolf5 out the door
>>81726662>no imbuedDropped hard. captcha: RH420
>>81726662>No Imbuedso they are just going to make owod Not!Vigil?
>>81726065They are playing the other Hunter Which strangely matches mere with the "Hunt is on" description
>>81726703Geist 2e is very focused on what it wants to be and even Geist 1e, while not having many goals, wasn't completely at odds with itself. Having no 'goal' doesn't mean that a game is bad or is confused what it wants to be. Nor does having a lot of focus make a game automatically good. A lot of people argue 1e's fluff is more interesting than 2e's and I can't exactly write them off.
>>81726086I wonder how much of the generational gap there just has to do with how weird is the very idea of looking at other people play (which seriously makes no sense to me - but to each their own and all that).The question being, I guess, are they commenting other games?>What would a VTM city management game look like?There's board games to take inspiration from (if only, to stay within theme, the recent Vandetta, Vampire: The Requiem: Prince of the City...) and then while not stricto sensu a specifically city-focused game, there would be that CKIII mod to look into.Personally what I would start from is what I do when I want to run some one shots: randomly generated city with peppered centers of power/interest. Randomly generated vampire political structure. Working out how it infilitrates and subverts the human political structure. Limited time. Throw the player(s) in it and see how they manage to expand their territory. It's all about the political interplay fighting other limited ressources, in the end.
>>81725565Group beats enforce more interaction between players and even if a player couldn't do much or didn't get too much spotlight like others, they still get a reward.
>>81726662So original hunters with Numina. Zoom gonna freak
>>81726717That would do a lot better than a rehashed HtR.
>>81726918>Vampire: The Requiem: Prince of the CityHey thats pretty neat. I will take a look and see what can I steal for my game
I just got done reading the V5 Sabbat book and I am immensely disappointed. Setting aside the overall lack of content whoever wrote this just decided to completely ignore and rewrite the sect's entire history to justify their "Uh, the Sabbat doesn't believe in clans" bullshit that never was even hinted at in previous editions. I could get it being a new thing, but retconning it as something that's "always been there" is retarded. How they handled paths was fucking atrocious too, "Yeah, Paths of Enlightenment are this huge clan-replacing thing in the Sabbat but we aren't going to really explain how they work or how they gain/lose path rating" What a fucking travesty.
>Hunter the Reckoning 5th >before MageThings I never thought possible
>>81727019>What a fucking travestyagreed at least there were a couple of neat disciplines like the ''let me delete your ego'' dominate even if you probably could do that already with the standard powers dominate already has
>>81725311People can talk about what it means that Mage is getting shafted, or how they're gonna make it woke, butL A D Sthis opens the door to other limited games. D5
Anybody have a pdf saved for Gehenna, Crucible of God? Lost my physical copy at a house fire few years back and I'm broke. Could only find Final Nights out there.
>>81727082The problem with nearly all of the new disciplines is I don't know why on earth anyone would take them over the core discipline powers. Ever since Cult of the Blood Gods amalgams and new powers have just gotten weaker and weaker.Also, you'd think they would finally increase the power level since Sabbat vampires are diablerie freaks who've been eating methuselahs and perhaps antediluvians for years now. NOPEI've said it before. The lack of elder disciplines wouldn't be nearly as bad if you could say low-gen vampires aren't restrained to five powers in a discipline, or at the very least say they can switch powers when they rest. Then you can have Mithras control his entire bloodline again and have it make sense.
>>81727108I don't think Druid 5th Edition will be that favorably welcomed.
>>81727019They always said it was going to be a NPC-only book. People expected the book giving them full rules about these things so they could play Sabbat as players. We are the ones to blame to expect something decent.
>>81725888>I have never seen such a confused design gameDude, you seen Promethean? That is not a game, that is a chore.
>>81727108They preparing arguments on how it was a good decison getting off Free Form Magic in Mage 5e and replace it with Path System the Tremere had in previous editions. Because yeah. That's what I see in the future in M5. This or their Free Form Magic system will be weak and spiceless.
>>81727191Not even the fact it's an NPC-only book. They rewrote the entire sect to be this weird pseudo-sabbat sect that makes no sense. We're to believe that the Sabbat, founded by the Lasombra and Tzimisce, don't believe in clan? The Lasombra are among the top four clan loyalists of any of the clans and they were the primary leadership for most of the sect's existence. And panders fighting for clan status—what the hell was that about? The Sabbat doesn't believe in clan anyway so caitiff would never have been treated any different based on their lack of clan, in fact they would probably be praised due to their lack of it.
>>81727224Based.>>81727260Yeah. They tried to insert some "opressor vs oppressed" theme there, but they failed and fell on contradicton. It was a good theme on pre-5e Sabbat. Now it does not make sense at all.
>>81727260That was always kinda there, but it was obfuscated behind all the cliquish bullshit that went on in the Sabbat (and that's a good thing!). The Panders argued for their existence based on the idea of rejecting the elder's yoke of clans, and it was grudgingly accepted as valid. The problem is that it's presented as a unanimous idea that everyone buys into completely, when the Sabbat was much messier than that. Of course, this is a "reboot" of the franchise, so they're starting simple, but that doesn't mean they've done it well. There should have been much more story-seeding, to leave room for players to explore with their own ideas. I said it before, it felt like a VtR book in how basic and archetypal it was.
>>81727233>This or their Free Form Magic system will be weak and spiceless.Do you realy want another generation of retarded magefags wanking over anime-esque power levels?
What is your local changeling Freehold doing on Halloween?
>>81727407The fun of Mage is the free form magic system and all the fluffy around it. If taking this away, why not simply playing Mage in GURPS?
>>81727386"Reboot" that up until this point has tried to keep plot points from V20 and Beckett's Jyhad Diary as canon. I mean the latter was literally supposed to bridge the gap so the reboot excuse falls hard, especially since other works like Bloodlines which are revised are still considered canon. An even more glaring issue is that V20 made it clear most Sabbat vampires are on humanity and don't even follow paths. Whatever we're reading about in V5 Sabbat is not the Sabbat. It only vaguely resembles it in goals and structure and even that is being generous.
>>81725009>Current ambitionTo find out what the hell the shadowy Methuselah that's been influencing things in the background for the entire campaign actually wants. Our coterie stands next to no chance at defeating it, so we either need to thwart its plan subtly or get it to enter torpor.
Factual Information: V5 Sabbat is just Requiem 1st Edition Belial's Brood, but unlike Requiem books, Sabbat book gives no hooks and its even more empty.
>>81727619>He doesn't know the Meth's plan involves them trying to find the Meth's plan, only to discover info blaming a third party that the Meth wanted destroyedNeonate please.
>>81727533Given how people have complained about V5 ad nauseam in these threads, I'm not sure how you haven't already figured out that V5 is a different setting from WoD.
>>81727437Like any other festivity, weekend or thursday, copious amounts of maybe consensual homosexual sex.>>81727306Not that Demon isn't an schizo-as-fuck game tho, but Promethean is in a league of its own. Mummy has serious focus problems too, yet not comparable to those two.Hunter, Vampire and Woofing the Woofening are pretty straightforward.The Pure rocks, fuck slutty Luna
>>81727745Newfriends come along all the time. It is realistic to assume that Masquerade fans all over the world get fed up with Official Forum "This is the best thing ever motherfuckers, BUY BUY BUY" bullshit and come here to vent from time to time.Even though we are all Anon, we are not the same person and all that.
>>81727224That game is actually really straightforward. It's also straightforwardly a fucking borefest.>DUDE it's actually really cool that you want to lose all your powers hehe>DUDE it's actually really cool that mortals hate you and you aren't allowed to stay in a place
my players started Gehenna like five sessions ago and don't realize it yet despite everyone around them being like "hey the world is ending btw." Today is when everything comes to a head and they will likely all die, I'm hoping they take it well. I wrote myself into a corner and don't intend on Deus Ex Machina-ing my way out of it. This is my first WoD chronicle and it's been going for about a year at this point, I've got a big long list of lessons I've learned for future chronicles and I hope my players stick around for a new chronicle after this one.
>>81725311>>81725843>>81726032>>81726662Of all the dumb things in the nu-metaplot, by far and again the one that annoys me the most is the Second "Inquisition". Conceptually, burning times 2 electric boogaloo sounds fine. In fact, it works well as a violent and dangerous ladder that allows more neonate flexibility... However.It is predicated on some very questionable events. NSA compromising schrecknet? Intelligence communities the world over just dropping everything to work together? Conveniently ignoring the incredible corruption found in all those organizations would make them laughably easy for even a savvy neonate to subvert? Pulling out new stuff out of their ass like ways to scan for a vampire that blush of life can't fool? Hell, calling themselves an Inquisition when they're just sniveling glowies. The biggest problem is the utter inconsistency of their relevance and power, where they can go from destroying Vienna or somehow burning out the whole of London to being effortlessly ignored in several games.What's worse is they aren't actually needed to shake up the political game, as the Beckoning (which I also find trite and forced) already removed most of your entrenched elders. Hunters Hunted V20 was a much better way to cover non-imbued hunters and pose them as credible threats than this trash.
>>81727811>NSA compromising schrecknet?Yeah, that was quite the retardation, considering the vampires in charge of that have been working with computer since before Turing kissed a boy.For me, the most grating part is the Beckoning.An event that has never happened conveniently voids the place of Elders (including the entire Tremere hierarchy, somehow) AND Sabbat, the two classic enemies of any baby chronicle.If I was a Camarilla vamp, I would think that was really, really fucking convenient.My favorite headcannon explanation is that none of that actually happened, it's just some bullshit half a dozen of Princes came with and now the live in pretend world to grip even tightly the balls of their court.>Yeah neonate dont use cellphones Inquisition will burn you>No no, you need to use my couriers that will write your message in invisible ink, what was it?>Be calm neonate, the Sabbat has all but dissapeared, they even lost Mexico DF, the entire East Coast (you know the one we spent 13 clan novels prattling about), Madrid, all that. So no funny ideas about threatening the status quo because we are all that is left>My dear Primogeniture, we now more than ever need to be united, for those Anarchs have taken Berlin! Can you believe it? Yes, I know, it's really hard to... no, the Camarilla is not losing ground all over Europe... it was just an example, alright?! Even bootlickers like Theo Bell have defected, and now the anarch go around under the leash of Setite Hierophants! You want that to happen here? Thought so.I don't give permission to Paradox or its subsidiaries to steal my ideas in order to fix the unmitigated disaster that is V5, thank you very much.
>>81727796Make sure [Tzimisce] is well fed, anon. Godspeed.
>>81727929The coterie will probably be dead by the time [Tzimisce] gets to them. They've got their city's Prince, all of the Sabbat from Mexico City, an Earthbound demon, and Tremere himself wanting a pound of flesh. It's gonna be a race to see who can get it first.
>>81727902>the Beckoning isn't real>neither is the Anarch 'sect'>It's just a pantomime done for the benefit of the neonates as the Camarilla's elders fall out with one another
>>81727977Tremere as Goratrix or Saulot as Tremere?
>>81727718>The Methuselah actually sent my character a letter trying to gaslight them into thinking this was the case.We've actually got a pretty good notion of where it stands politically, it's been forced to take direct action at a couple of points now. Which leads me to believe that it's been having a lot of trouble getting whatever the hell it wants. What we know for certain is that it's been subtly influencing things in the city since at least the 1960s. The Methuselah is almost certainly a Lasombra, and of native american origin, probably the Cochise Culture (pre-pueblo American Southwest). The Methuselah doesn't care about Camarilla or Sabbat, and will cultivate puppets, ideally as elite as possible. They have had several previous Princes under their unwitting influence. Up until very recently I hoped it was just for power's sake, because then all we have to do is stuff we'd be doing anyway like it was for the entire campaign before we began to suspect outside influence. Unfortunately, we've recently found strong evidence to suggest that she's after something deep beneath the city, that was sealed away by native (presumably magically skilled) holy men millennia ago. Not sure how we can thwart that without defeating the Methuselah directly, but we'll try to figure that out. Next session we're actually heading to the site of the first session we ever had, which was just a test one-shot, in order to look for signs in the decrepit abandoned haven of a once peerless Malkavian seer.
So Ghost Hunter was officially released yesterday.
>>81727999Tremere as Goratrix. Saulot as Tremere is otherwise occupies in the Carpathians.Also, nice trips.
>>81727993>Yes, you may find strange that Sire, the former Prince, is gone, and that even a cursory check of my aura reveals clear indications of diablerie, but... he was Reckoned and all that>Surprised Vampiric Noises.jpg>Ventrureador drops monocle in glass of blood "Gasp, the old Prince? That's terrible!"
>>81728034That is funny, because on one hand you have Goratrix-Tremere having 95% of the body of Goratrix, and if Tremere-Saulot is in the Carpathians, he is probably near Ceoris, the remaining 5% of Goratrix's body...
>>81728033Is it another Reality TV series about exploring haunted condemned buildings?
>>81728046>Now I know you all are very concerned with how the coterie that occupied the industrial district have disappeared, and that their havens have HELP HELP THE PRIMOGENS ARE GOING TO EAT US ALL scrawled on the wall in vitae>We have investigated this thoroughly, and the Sheriff has concluded that this was perpetrated by those no-good Anarchs.>Awful kine those Anarchs, they eat babies to consecrate their black bloc revels.>Anyway disregard what it says on the wall, that's just the Anarchs spreading subversive lies.
>>81727755>The Pure rocks, fuck slutty LunaDouble dubs of truth right there.
>>81727796>>81727977>>81728034This is cool. I have my own end of world thing already being scripted, but it will take a long time to happen. I hope I can get there.
>>81728096What would be the two morality stats of that game? Hustle and Social Media Presence?
>>81728202Haha, that or Followers and Patreons.>A Ghost Hunter with few Followers but high Patreon dots is a fearsome creature. He has managed to swindle a captive audience, despite his content being so shit it cannot go mainstream. Be wary of such entities, Influencer!>>81728136It was probably Mistah Rodriguesh, no doubt.
>>81728011I advice you send the woofs that way, the native american ones to maintain the seal the others will unleash whatever the fuck is there and later on die for a Pyrrhic victory.also confirm if they are the ones that hate white people, Wendigo, because odds are if you send them they will unleash the thing just to watch the city burn. >>81728082Hey what are they doing anyway? im not that familar with Saulot and Tremere plotlines
>>81728136>And people say the Gangrel are the savage ones for not staying to deal with this tipe of bullshit
>>81728329>Hey what are they doing anyway? im not that familar with Saulot and Tremere plotlinesOh boy.Well, Tremere was a Wizard of the Carpathian Coast who used an Elder Tzimisce to become a Vampire, he and his crew. Then he diablerized Saulot, the Salubri clan Antediluvian, to become a big boi. Goratrix cuts his dick and creates a fortress with it.Then constant war for centuries. Goratrix defects to the Sabbat.Then the Tzimisce Antedulivan starts turning him into a worm. Then Saulot, centuries later, gets tired of having been diablerized and takes control of Tremere's body.Tremere gets tired of being a bodyless vampire and takes control of Goratrix body. Goratrix's soul gets thrown inside a mirror.Tremere murders convokes the Tremere of the Sabbat, then murders anyone that comes.Saulot starts his antediluvian hijinks, but those are not relevant until Gehenna, in which you have multiple choices for him to act (all in the book, which I don't remember that well). Saulot being the Multiple Personality Disorder asshole he is, he is probably creating new Baali while resurrecting his clan and killing the Assamites or something. Who knows. He may as well be the founder of the Assamites too, for all the bullshit he's done.Tremere plots to recover his body, but now is a 4th Gen Dickless Goratrix instead of a Cool 3rd Gen, so it's going to be difficult.Then Tzimisce starts consuming anyone with Tzimisce blood... which means all Tremere, technically.All this is just what if scenarios and alternate options for your End of Times play.
You guys listen to the Werewolf 5th edition 'brand update' that Justin Achilli did on the official WoD twitch channel? I'm only a few minutes in and I already fear for the future of WtA. He started off talking about how they wanted to separate the tribes from real world nationalities, citing examples like it being easier for there to be a native american silent strider or north african black fury. I've been playing WtA since about the early 2000s and I've never met a single person who would have had a beef with a native american silent strider, north african black fury or practically any other combination of identities and tribes (besides obvious fuckery like male non-metis black furies or homid red talons). I'm sure there's gonna be a bunch more identity politics bullshit in this interview. When does the wokeness stop and when can we get back to playing a game about eco-warriors in a world of savage horror?
>>81728458North African Furies have made sense since forever. It's the fucking Mediterranean
>>81728431Gangrel are the savage ones yes. Their fuccboii of a Justicar (Xaviar de Calais, oh oui) threw an hissy fit when the rest of the Council did not believe that he had fought some kind of monster with Koldunic Sorcery (turns out they were right, because it wasn't that, it was just one bad Eye with Chimestry), so he takes his clan out of the Camarilla.And the Gangrel, like the good sheep they are, leave the Camarilla en masse because some fuccboii told them to.
>>81728484So the feminist female-supremacy werewolves are North African?Take a tour of Morocco or Algeria and think again.
>>81728520>Its meant to be empowering for those nationalities under the yoke of the patriarchy anon
>>81728458Here's hoping they make the Shadow Lords some kind of Slavic Neo-Nazis, and they make them the bad guys.Pleeease.
So if there's no Imbued why the fuck are they making H5? That's like making V5 with no fucking vampires. Reckoning was all about the Imbued.
>>81728520Good thing no one ever leaves those areas then. Or even tours them, like you certainly didn't suggest. Oh boy, wouldn't that be inconvenient
>>81728520The tribes have origins in certain parts of the world but every edition of WtA makes it clear that a tribal totem chooses a garou, not the other way around. You wouldn't have a sept of majority black furies trying to run off a cub or cliath accepted by pegasus. It's never been weird to have practically any mix of nationality and tribe, besides the obvious red flag examples like male non-metis black furies and homid red talons. But now the woke brigade are hammering on identity bullshit and unfortunately they are the ones writing these books now. So instead of the limited page count going towards shit people want to read, it's going towards real world progressive political bullshit that they can't help but try to shove into the game.
>>81728573We all gonna play Hunted Hunters 5e. And just like they took some elements from Requiem to V5, they probably gonna do same thing. Have fun playing Vigil 5e (just hope we get our Numina and Static Sorcery back).
>>81728587So the Black Furies were tired of being oppressed by men and then they just... left, and left their lands to suffer?That's a bit underwhelming for them.
>>81728632You're so willfully obtuse that I can only assume you're a Stargazer fan
>>81728613Hopefully this >>81728565, so we have someone to root for.
>>81727811I love the second inquisition conceptually, I hate that it was too cowardly to take the logical conclusion of dropping the Masquerade (though, well, yeah, by that point your game needs a new name...). The first inquisition worked *because* everyone was on it. Once you start introducing all that secrecy and red tape... well, for one, you're playing the vampire's game. And then you're playing against one another.>where they can go from destroying ViennaCome on now, just because the deed is put at their feet doesn't mean they acomplished the feat. Personally I like to posit a Tremere antitribu 2.0 happening, with the wrong people taking the blame/credit. Would make more sense. >>81727902I actually like both the Beckoning and the fact that it was left vague enough that you can do what you want with it. Good excuse to remove several powerful players at once and create some breathing room as needed. Or you can leave your own status quo if you prefer.That said, I don't get what was the point of doing that if they 're going to reintroduce new heavy hitters right after (see V5 Chicago).>>81727260As I was saying in a previous thread, small but significant change.
>>81728456Thanks for the overview.>Who knows. He may as well be the founder of the Assamites toojust imagine their confused faces if that was true.on that note does Saulot has access to Tremere thaumaturgy or did he slept all that time until he decided to take over Tremere body
>>81728649I admit that my angles are obtuse rather than sharp, but I admit no more.
>>81728670No idea, but considering he was about 7 thousand years at the time of his diablerie, it is safe to assume he knows all the blood magic he wants, if not exactly Thaumaturgy.
Oh wow, Metis are gone for Werewolf 5th, because of wokeness. "It's 2021, one of the things I didn't want WtA to focus on were the circumstances of your birth or the purity of your breed." Also the tenet of the litany forbidding Garou to mate with Garou is gone for W5th.
>>81728667>As I was saying in a previous thread, small but significant change.I mean I like the idea but it doesn't fit with the previous lore. my suggestion would be that such sentiments would be a new Noddist cult gaining prominence within the Sabbat but im sure that also opens a whole can of worms.>The first inquisition worked *because* everyone was on it.Fair points, you could go for a cell angle and that hunter groups grow more numerous as the Thin Bloods fuck up the Masquerade and most of the heavy hitters are too busy keeping it together
>>81728458>Mr Achilli, I am a great fan, I would like for you to do a dramatic reading of my favourite work of yours, the introductory story of Clanbook Giovanni>Oh no please I thought I destroyed all the copies oh god no I don't want to be cancelled please
>>81728757Wow, that guts an interesting part of the setting. Including the prophecy of the perfect metis, And also misses the point because werewolves ste typically born, not made. Let me guess. Theyre adding the bitten from that garbage BNS lore
>>81728728Makes sense>>81728757At that point just promote forsaken if you dont want to deal with apocalypse bullshit.
>>81728757No, for real, what is he saying? I mean, that Garou dont fuck Garou, ensuring the purity of your lineage so you don't get extint and the metis drama stuff is like the source of one third of the conflict there.They cannot be that dumb.
>>81728817I mean yeah, half of what makes WtAs fans like it is the baggage, without that it lacks much of an identity, Forsaken was ment to be the version scrubbed of all that.
>>81728839That totally can be, especially if they include the Bitten.The fucking bitten exist to take a big streaming dump on half of what made WtA interesting and utterly undercut a good chunk of the conflicts
>>81728839It would be as idiotic as removing the Elders and the Sabbat from Masquerade, or having the Assamites join the (Tremere orchestrated) Camarilla.
>>81728853>Forsaken was ment to be the version scrubbed of all thatAgreed, speaking of forsaken is there a translation guide for it and apocalypse ?
>>81728942Yes, but only for 1e. Vampire, Mage, Werewolf and Demon got their Translation Guide. Can't remember if Changeling got one. Geist-Wraith didn't got one (unfortunatly).
>>81728968A 2e Translation guide for Mage would be great.Also in general a Mummy translation guide would be brilliant to get Awokefags and Sleepfags to stop complaining at each other.
>>81728869>having the Assamites join the (Tremere orchestrated) Camarilla.Well, the Assamites joined, and the Tremere got hit hard at the highest level. Coïncidence? I think not.Seriously though, the Ttremere joining *anything* was probably harder to swallow. Yet history is filled with ennemies sitting at the same table for personal gain. Just take a look at the UN's Security Council.>It would be as idiotic as removing the Elders and the Sabbat from MasqueradeElders. Elders were removed. Not "the" elders. If motherfucking Critias is still around - if Mithras is potentially still around, I reckon the game leaves enough margins to keep *anyone* you want around.>>81728788>my suggestion would be that such sentiments would be a new Noddist cult gaining prominence within the SabbatAs I said in that previous thread, I really like the idea of this not being planned, just a reaction, a cultural zeitgeist supported by the old cadre disappearing while what remains of the sect gets first on the SI chopping block and balkanizes further and further, and the old Panders talking points mutate into something else.There *is* something to play with here.
>>81728796Kek. I can just imagine. Got an extract to show everyone?
>>81728757>>81728801>>81728817>>81728839>>81728868>>81728869You can expect anything to do with breeding to removed from the game, as the way that Werewolf the Apocalypse currently handles it encourages eugenics.No more distinction between homid, lupus and metis.No more breeding of kinfolk or maintaining groups of kinfolk for maximum probability of Garou.No more ethnic divisions between the various tribes.Due to a plot device, anyone and everyone has the potential to be kinfolk and become Garou and their parentage is irrelevant, as are the kinfolk families that can no longer reliably produce kinfolk, let alone Garou.
>>81725311The big 3 with Vampire, Werewolf and Mage is gone! Now everything is a fair game! I still hope for new Demon the Fallen.
>>81725311But didn't we have 15 seasons of Supernatural?
>>81728190Thanks anon. game time in two hours and I'm meticulously pouring over my notes to make sure I get everything right. I know that maybe two of my players are probably going to be disappointed by the ending, but I'm hoping to at least make it memorable.
>>81728670I'll add that this fuckery also extends to his clan. On a metaphysical level, Tremere are bloodlines of both the Tzimisce and Salubri clan. It comes out in certain plots and clan flaws, but the precedent is there to go wild with it. Tremere is such a fuck up lmao *dabs vicissitudinally*
>>81729158Thay kinda ruins the entire sense of community the tribes have, I can even begin with what this does to the fera
>>81729141I'll assume anon meant OG, and not revised.I don't really see the problem with it myself, but you go.
>>81729158So they are stripping away their identity to force them to appeal to modern human values when half the fun was the fact that they adhere to a separate set of values from modern humans, they they aren't just humans who turn into animals but are beings with a mindset both beastly and human at once?
>>81729332Tremere is an hilarious guy. Of all the people he could choose to perform his ritual, he chose an elder Tzimisce.You know, not a Toreador, Ventrue, Brujah, or any other nobody that won't be missed. He choose an elder of a clan know for:1) Torture.2) Extermination.3) Never letting an insult go.Great.
>>81729096>Elders. Elders were removed. Not "the" elders. If motherfucking Critias is still around - if Mithras is potentially still around, I reckon the game leaves enough margins to keep *anyone* you want around.Helena is also around in Chicago despite being over 3k years old.The Beckoning is just a plot device, a tool for the ST. You want to remove elders from your city for more of a clean slate or to have a vacuum of power? All elders left. You want to keep elders around? They found a way to stay. You want to keep some of them and get rid of the rest? Also doable.
How many true fae can an archmage molest at a single time? Asking for a friend
>>81729425I mean he went for the salubri later. he may be stupid but not a complete one
>>81729365>still believing Fera won't be just NPCs like Sabbat You are naive. I like you.
Who turned James Bond into a raging cock sucker in-denial? What power? How many dots?
>>81729436Nice, thanks. This'll be enough to get the twidiot lynch mob out in full force.
>>81729511Well seems I can just stick with W20
>>81729511>Then you are going to love me!Batman: The Dark Knight reference.>>81729377Indeed. Thank for posting those. You really don't think that intro, nowadays, would make the V5 public shit their pants in anguish?This coming from the same guy who want to remove ethnic and racial components to W5.>>81729502True that. Maybe Meerlinda gave him a stern talk.>>81729515Dominate 3 to 4, depending on editions, or just a regular blood BOND (wink, wink).
>>81729537May the Lord (Jesus, Shaytan, Namtaru, your pick) guide your steps, good man.
>>81729515>What power?>How many dots? The more direct one would be Mind 3 but Dementation 1 could also work
>>81728757So... Why they didn't eradicate humanity?
>>81729627Because they were incompetent, by the time they realized they needed to do that they couldn't do so anymore, presuming that they ever could.
>>81728869The Ass-Eaters joining the Camarilla was one of the few things that harmoniously unified the woke and the sensible within V5. It was long established that the Warrior caste abused the other castes, and those castes saw the Tremere curse as a sort of respite just because it weakened the Warriors. The divisions were already deep enough to imagine the Sorcerors and Viziers defecting to the Camarilla to escape the Warriors. Meanwhile, they've always been a bootlicker clan par excellence, brown Ventrue, and they shouldn't get a pardon from getting dunked on for it because they're brown. Putting them in the "The Man" faction reinforces the theme of elders manipulating humans and neonates from the shadows.
>>81729627Stop asking questions about the business decissions of your masters.
>>81729515>Just wants to have a place to drink without power tripping douchebagsYou don't have to be gay to drink at a gay bar, you know.
>>81729688But let met tell you, it helps!
>>81729502It was still pretty stupid, but more from hubris than bad planning. He presumed a relatively nice Antediluvian would be some kind of pushover, rather than an abyss of mystical power. He already had plenty of experience with diablerie, he should have taken more precautions with a being he knew made the oldest Methuselah look like a neonate.
>>81729664>Warriors are the jocks and Sorcerers/Viziers are the nerds>Alamut is an american high-school movie
Why do they kill Chronicles while stealing all the ideas from Chronicles?
>>81729727Because Evil is real and rules the world.
>>81729727Because OWOD sells better.>>81729709Agreed but hind sight is 20/20
Why was an Hermetic Mage selling weapons and trinkets to Cristof in Prague?
>>81729709I think it was more a reason of availability. Who else what active, other than Cappadocious, who also got the Bite?
>>81726065Nobody cares about CofD until Calliope star playing that shit, CofD was so forgettable that the company has to resurect WofD. Fans of CofD should be grateful that someone legitimy likes and considered play that instead D&D or Vampire the Masquerade, two games that are famous enoug to give her more subs and super chats. I can bet, Hunter the Bigil sell more books because some people loves Watoto
>>81729688>There are no swinging dicks at gay bars
>>81729803>My group has never played oWoD stuff and has been playing nWoD/CofD for a decade now
>>81729830Yeah, but they're looking for a hookup with interested dudes, not trying to fight to impress the chicks.
>>81729803What is a Calliope and/or Watoto?
>>81724824From where is this? What book?
>>81729438>you really don't think that intro, nowadays, would make the V5 public shit their pants in anguish?I don't know. I've thrown worse at the local younger players, and they didn't mind. I don't think the subject matter so much happens to be the issue. It's the delivery.I have zero interaction with the social media cliques, but my general take from second hand exposition is that they're basically the modern form of a certain cultural bourgoisie that has always been shaping the cultural production landscape... only now we can fully see in the open the close-minded self-centered hubris and incompetence that once had to be recounted in shared stories (anyone that had to deal with the cultural industries will have a fair share of those).>This coming from the same guy who want to remove ethnic and racial components to W5.That's not a debate I care to have that much, but really: suppressing those from being a general defining point of the character factions doesn't mean suppressing them altogether. The character in that Giovanni story is not meant to be emulated.We'll see how they go about doing it.
>>81728869>(Tremere orchestrated) CamarillaThat's a mighty big cope from the Usurpers.
>>81729841>but they're looking for a hookup with interested dudeSo why cockblock them by going to a gay bar without being gay? That seems like poor manners to me. It would probably be pissed if some guy open an Hetero Only bar just to be filled with gay people.But that is neither here nor there. This is a Wendy's and we speak about WoD/CoD.
>>81729727Because Chronicles had good ideas, but terrible products.>>81729719Yes, and the Camarilla defection is like when the nerds go off to college believing all their teachers that they'll flourish, but they just end up becoming cogs in the machine.>>81729795The lore has always been that Saulot was chosen because Tremere presumed he was a bitch, but the lack of active Antes would be the real problem.That said, I've always liked the bitch-made aspect of Salubri culture. It's a pyramid scheme where they all go about doing whatever Saulot wants from them, while he manipulates them to his own purposes and discards them when the time comes. It makes the clan look less like noble martyrs, and more like fools. I like that kind of realism, that an entire clan of good boys could never truly be.
>>81729862They kinda did, tho.No other clan has any kind of significant structure, not even the Venfalse.>>81729842Seconded.
>>81729871Oh, the Salubri are great as the town punching bag, for sure.
>>81729871>Because Chronicles had good ideas, but terrible products.Requiem is superior to V5 in every single way and I say this as someone who is ambivalent to all the stupid shit in Chronicles. W5 is going to be a discount-Forsaken and Hunter the Reckoning 5th will CERTAINLY be a discount Vigil.
>>81729842>>81729882This is a Watoto. More Calliope is a popular vtuber who is running this Hunter the Vigil game. Watoto is a PC in the game.
>>81729882The Ventrue have a structure, it's just much less tight/restrictive than the nightmare Tremere pyramid. Hell, the Ventrue even borrowed some of their own clan's structure for making the Camarilla. The architect of the Camarilla was a Ventrue, the Tremere just saw it as a way to get out of the fact a solid third of the clans wanted them dead. To get accepted by the others within the Camarlla, they had to make several concessions about shit they were no longer allowed to do.
>>81729930I forgot about that. How's the campaign going so far?
>>81729846Book of the Weaver i guess >>81729871Makes sense, i like the salubri but they dont fit like at all in Camarilla stile games. they would go to the local hospital and just vibe the cancer away from some children as the brujah are losing their shit in the midle of a gang war
>>81729930A Deranged, Intelligence 1, drug dealer with 0 dots in Academics, Science, Empathy and Socialize.At least she made a credible Hunter for her game.
>>81729930I have to say I really like "survival: luck". Made me smile.
>>81729846The Book of the Weaver. It's one of the better Werewolf the Apocalypse books, but that might just be my preference.
>>81729936>several concessions about shit they were no longer allowed to doYeah, all the blood abominations they kept doing anyway. Ah, good ol', three-faced, satanist, psychopatic tyrant Clan Tremere, never change...>V5Fuck...
>>81729952It's pretty good fun, some ups and downs, a bit of a mix of oWoD and CofD lore, very not serious and not what Vigil is about at all but a good watch.
>>81725307I did ponder the idea of Wyld influence spirits in the digital web, I called them memelings
>>81729987It's pretty good, it also has a mystery box I plan to take advantage of in game at some point
>>81729952Some ups and some downs but last episode was great. After laxative-bombing the Giovanni cocktail ball and escaping a sex dungeon they went to a weird circus because they heard that their "clones/doubles" were there and then after some investigations the whole place was Descended to the Underworld and they're fighting for their lives trying to return to the Skinlands. The GM (Mori Calliope) is managing to mix almost every single WoD and CofD splat in her game... a significant accomplishment on its own!
>>81730005Good digits. I had an idea of meme talen that was just that, a ever changing meme
>>81730005Memespirits already exist in canon, as Pentex and nephandi banes, so why not.
>>81730044Not all memes are evil but risk of corruption would be high, so I can work with that
>>81729998Oh sure, but everyone in the Camarilla breaks the rules when they can get away with it. The fact the Tremere have to keep their abominations hidden and face consequences if found out is proof enough they don't have all the power in the Camarilla.V5 is still shit though.
>>81730002>>81730024>mixing both Wod and CofDThat's my jam fuck yeah.
>>81729970Aint that the truth.
>>81724824The Weaver is incredibly based.
>>81729869>Nobody's allowed to go into any bar just to have a drink, they have to be looking for a hookup
>>81729930>Fillable PDF>Scribbled on it in PaintOn brand.
>>81729803>Nobody cares about CofD until Calliope star playing that shit>resurect WofD>legitimy>enoug>Hunter the Bigil>lovesAre you having a fucking stroke, or are you the guy who was telling people who asked what Hunter edition they should play, to play V5?
tfw CofD is legitimately less pozzed than OWoD now.
>>81730181This saddens me, but it's not like they can force me to change editions
>>81730181>he doesn’t ignore the Meta and snowflake rules.Me and my 4th gen tzimisce methuselah with multiple modifications are laughable with a combined 4 mouths
>>81730169>are you the guy who was telling people who asked what Hunter edition they should play, to play V5?Well he's not wrong NOW, is he?!?AHAHAHAHAHA!!!
>>81729832Why does this particular guy not know how Greentext works?>>81729803Paradox are probably seething that she's using CofD.
>>81730150Gays say hello by sucking each other's dicks. Gays say goodbye by fucking each other in the ass.
>>81724907>>81724980>>81725241JUST NO.Weaver is the incapable of creating art, as art is fundamentally a product of chaos, and the Weaver is perfect order made manifest. Read On Beauty by Roger Scruton or History of Beauty by Umberto Eco. The ability for humanity to create art and beauty is inherently tied to our ability to create new patterns, those patterns become our art. In order to create new patterns, we need a healthy dose of chaos and freedom in our minds, gifts of Wyld. Weaver is the very antithesis to art.
>>81730256>Why does this particular guy not know how Greentext works?>Implying anybody cares about your stupid opinion
>>81730201>uses V5 mechanics for a Tzimisce elder no lesslol.
>>81730305On no, I use v20. V5 doesn’t even have elder powers (as far as I know;
>>81730058It's currently "Vigil", Masquerade, Apocalypse, Lost, and Geist for sure. Promethean is a maybe. She sort of seems to be doing a "Grand tour of the splats" sort of chronicle, so who knows what we'll get if they do demons. I'd hope for Descent but I don't think Calli knows much of anything relating to the God-Machine
>>81729158The game doesn't encourage eugenics. The players did.
>>81730257Well, how convenient! That makes it easy to spot the customers of a gay bar that aren't gay themselves.>>81729987Picture reminds me of that Malkavian character in the V:TMB2 trailer.
>>81730350More Pure Blood is better. Getting more werewolf offspring is better. Some acts produce deformed, sterile offspring, etc.Very eugenics.
>>81730274A human interpretation of Wyld inspiration to create something of the Weaver. The flash of inspiration is the only Wyld thing about it, the codifying of that inspiration as something that can be seen or heard is Weaver. It is the transformation of an idea from something elusive into something tangible, that can be measured and appraised.
>>81730276But I'm gay.
>>81730368The cancelled game?
>>81730395I'm sorry sir I didn't meant to offend please sir don't denounce me to Them no not room 101 sir pleaseAlso that means you play V5?
>>81730426Apparently not cancelled, just in development Hell. According to an interview with the Paradox CEO from last month.
>>81730467They're not brave enough to admit "sorry it's not coming out" and return all of that preorder money.
How is Shifting Sands [Mage the Awakenung 2E] supposed to be portrayed if it’s an NPC using it? Like say my cabal is fighting a Time Mage and he Reaches and goes back three hours, how should it be displayed?Should I simply have the game itself reverse three hours and have the players play from there? Should I simply inform the players they’ve been slain and to make new characters [supposing they’re ambushed by the traveler as seems likely?]Or do I simply say that he’s effectively committed suicide by jumping to a different timeline then the one the campaign is taking place on, leaving the NPC irrelevant henceforth but still ‘alive’?
>>81730542>Buy the IP to spruce it up as a multimedia franchise, launched with the release of a new edition of the tabletop and a sequel to Bloodlines>Leave the tabletop in the hands of idiots who produce another divisive new edition to fragment the fanbase even further and draw down criticism from right and left over clumsy handling of contemporary issues in a vampire game>After losing trust in them start farming out books to people who are even less reliable until you finally give up and start producing books in-house again>Meanwhile Hardsuit Labs is taking your money and either diverting it to other projects or is just wasting it on hookers and blow, leading Bloodlines 2 to be years behind schedule and overbudget as you try desperately to salvage this mess of a projectI have no idea what Paradox is thinking, all we need is for the TV show to be a ratings bomb for every one of their goals to be a flop. The only thing they've done right is to realize that they can make money licensing the rights to other companies, which CCP never seemed to think of.
>>81730590>Or do I simply say that he’s effectively committed suicide by jumping to a different timeline then the one the campaign is taking place on, leaving the NPC irrelevant henceforth but still ‘alive’?that seems like the more intresting option
>>81730749I'm okay with that, I got community books to fill the void of official support
>>81730749>Hardsuit Labs is taking your money and either diverting it to other projects or is just wasting it on hookers and blowSince so many of their developers/writers were women, do you think they were blowing it on Chippendale's dancers and expensive spa retreats instead?
>>81729442everysingle one- True Fae are slaves before the might of an archmage
>>81725311How will they implement Hunter-org now?
>>81730749Meanwhile OPP gets reliable sales and regularly blows out its Kickstarter goals (H:tV2e got 4x its goal) at basically no financial risk to Paradox.
>>81731127Company simps are as persavise as any other type of simp, men with what they think is disposable income to waste in whatever, in this case books they are going to hate.Kickstarter was the most profitable and powerful tool of any Pentex-Syndicate joint venture.
>>81731330How does it feel to live with impotence?
>>81727811NSA didn't magically compromise Shreknet. It's heavily implied that it was another supernatural and/or vampire who outed the Nos, who already had the information before hand and wiped their drives of everything but the Vienna Chantry.>Intelligence communities the world over just dropping everything to work together? This isn't a thing either. The SI isn't one big world-wide concerted effort. It's simply various government agencies realizing that something is amiss and all moving against it in their own parts of the world in their own way. FIRST LIGHT is not aligned with the Entity, the Society of Leopold is manipulating the U.S. Military into getting unlimited funding, and even Project Antigen was revealed to be a ploy by Mithris' followers to cleanse London, rather than it being a group that was formed naturally.>Conveniently ignoring the incredible corruption found in all those organizations would make them laughably easy for even a savvy neonate to subvert?The only ones that are actually working well are the ones that have Supernatural backing. True Faith, or Vampires have been behind every successful purge so far.>The biggest problem is the utter inconsistency of their relevance and power, where they can go from destroying Vienna or somehow burning out the whole of London to being effortlessly ignored in several games.Because they're not all working together, as stated above. The West Coast is pretty much done, but Chicago and NY are still thriving, as it the south western areas from New Mexico to Texas.>>81727902The Beckoning has nothing to do with what happened to Tremere elders. Sabbat are still around, there's just significantly less of them and they're concentrating in areas that haven't been showcased yet.You guys could least read the lore before complaining about it.
So.That giant ass acronym from nearly a month ago was about Justin going back to the USA. I also didn't came here since that day, when I left saying I wasn't gonna come back until those news dropped.Anyway.How did you guys found H5? I liked it a lot :) Expect lots and lots of shills showing up in the next few days.>>81730749Put this on Google Translator. Pay attention to the last quote by the founder and CEO of the company.https://www.avanza.se/placera/telegram/2021/10/13/paradox-tror-pa-bloodlines-avvaktar-storsatsning-rollspel-vd.htmlDoes that sound like a happy man?
>>81731479I appreciate you
>>81729502“If I’m going to merge my soul with anyone, it had better be a really cool dude and not some ding dong fruit.”>diablerie of one extremely cool dude later“Too cool. Way too cool. I gotta balance this out quick.”
>>81733000The digits dont lie he was a pretty cool dude
>>81732644You nitpick, take implications and suggestions as fact, minimize massive plot holes, maximize mediocre post-fac explanations, and refer to lore and revelations in yet unanounced possible supplements.This RPG's plot is not a murder myster we need to piece together as years go by and new books are thought and written in response to massive criticism and underwhelming performance.Your debating tactics, misdirection, purposeful obliviousness, and obfuscation make you a solid 4chan member. One of us, if you will.>>81732727>There has also been speculation about a launch of Bloodlines 2 AT BEST in 2023?>"We have a while left, so you could say", comments the CEO.Yeah.
>>81725009Which is the most degenerate supernatural? Can keep dick in pants nor butt cheeks closed. Once I know this, I will be complete
>>81729224Isn't that show just ghosts and demons
>>81733445>Can keep dick in pants Vykos can't even keep his dick in his body.
>>81733445There are two contenders: The Lost are most botton, the Begotten are most top, both are equally degenerate.
>>81733445Only vampires HAVE to swap bodily fluids
>>81730015>mystery box I have seen this term a few times. Is that the plot device like how j j Abrams described it
>>81733260The metaplot not having a concrete explanation doesn't mean there's "massive plotholes" everywhere when theirs elusions that you just choose to ignore.>This RPG's plot is not a murder myster we need to piece together as years go byThat's the entire purpose of keeping the reasoning behind everything vague in v5. It's built to misdirect and have no definitive purpose behind big events. You piece it together from different sources as you go to try and explain it. It's not as if these inconsistences didn't exist previously either, the difference is that you want to bitch about this specifically.This is all of course ignoring the fact that you can just not play v5 at all and sit pretty in 20th for another decade with how much content there is, and how much you can create.>Your debating tactics, misdirection, purposeful obliviousness, and obfuscation make you a solid 4chan member. One of us, if you will.I'm not even debating, I'm just telling you what's there. You're the one being purposefully oblivious so you can scream on a chinese hop scotch forum about some boogeyman who made something you don't like, even though following the metaplot in WW products for your games is probably most absolute level of brainlet you can do.
>>81730375Except it doesn't work that way in game. It's not pure blood, it's a magical genetic throw back to resembling heroes of yore. You attempting to meta game to mass produce such results isn't the game.
>>81732727You still have nothing interesting to say and should kill yourself.
>>81733961No just the massive plot holes mean their are massive plot holes because its not the same universe at all.
>>81733961Behold, the V5 shill. Watch as he fervently defends V5's decisions in one breath, then says "you don't have to play it" the next. He assumes that one cannot criticize that which they don't actively partake in. He asserts that because other options exist, no fault may exist within V5. And ultimately every defense you have given of the second inquisition diminishes their impact of the setting, and even you acknowledge they have no right being considered a single entity. If there's no unified hierarchy, communications, or even ideals, how can it even be called an entity or even an event? Which is ultimately the problem with the second inquisition. Either it is a massive existential threat to vampires... or it's nothing but a bunch of unconnected things that just happened to happen at the same time.It's a lazy plot device at best, and a conceptual eyesore at worst..t Combines multiple splats and custom non-splat related stuff from across gamelines in his VTM game that's a hack of VTR for the mechanics... before Huntermyth made mixing WoD and CofD cool.
Quick question on VtM Revised...To swap to a Path it mentions reducing Conscience and Self-Control to 1. I know if you botch Conscience rolls it can drop 1, though I couldn't see how Self-Control drops anywhere.As most starting PCs are going to have ratings of 3-4 in them without trying, there doesn't seem to be noted how to reduce them (or at least Self-Control) to move on to a Path of Enlightenment?
>>81733477Just about everything under the sun shows up and gets hunted, demons the most recurring antagonist though. It also happens to be a pretty fun progression through the tiers, albeit in a narrower way because its TV.
>>81733445I'd guess mages, just because they're living humans and living humans are pretty close to maximum horny already.
>>81734302If it's not mentioned elsewhere where you can easily find it, just use the rules for increasing Self-Control with exp, but reverse them them (if you have to lower from 3 to 2 and the cost of increasing for 2 to 3 is whatever, use that; then the cost of increasing from 1 to 2 use it as the cost to decrease it). Losing self-control should be easier the more you try after all.I am sure there are specific rules for that but I cannot even remember, so if in that same book it doesn't say anything, homerule it. It's a very specific thing, and your game shouldn't suffer narratively because of that.
>>81734363Dolphins. Supernatural dolphins? Are there were-dolphins fera?Those must be the horniest.
>>81734307Hm, guess I'll go back to it one day. I stopped the first episode because it was pretty cheesey with the pretty boys and the romance and the older bro Chad.
>>81734600Have you tried Buffy? It's cheesy but fun.
>>81734291>Either it is a massive existential threat to vampires... or it's nothing but a bunch of unconnected things that just happened to happen at the same time.First, I don't beleive the two propositions to actually be mutualy exclusive. Second, and I've been playing that way for now, it's easy to just make the SI a huge vampiric hysteria. The threat exists, but nowhere near as big as the vampires themselves assume it to be. They're just stuck in a rut because they don't /know/, things are happening all at once, and the level of paranoia/distrust is up the roof... more so than usual. And the fear is the bigger threat.The good thing about V5 is that it tends to be vague and at times contradictory enough that you easily get to pick your favored interpretation, at least.I agree with the other anon, there's a tendency to overplay V5 flaws - or not even flaws just holes, some even willful - that I find pretty weird. I would have said petty, but it's not even that. You could apply the same level of nitpicking at previous editions and tear them apart - there's a lot of stuff that is just plain ridiculous in them yet we accept(ed) at face value.The edition has its flaws, and I've certainly been a huge critic of it, but too often I look at some comments and I wonder if this unwilling to compromise/adapt reactionnary attitude (not an insult, not necessarily talking about you specifically here) was always there in the community and it just passed me by, or if it's a more recent developement.The closest I can think of in the past is the realease of Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand, and even then, despite the noise, the majority of people just moved along, either picking up/adapting stuff as needed or totally ignoring it if they didn't like it.
>>81734634>The closest I can think of in the past is the realease of Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand, and even then, despite the noise, the majority of people just moved along, either picking up/adapting stuff as needed or totally ignoring it if they didn't like it.It was so bad it was officially semi-retconned, and mentioned in later supplements as "if you really want to use the o.p.t.i.o.n.a.l. rules of DSotBH".Hopefully, people will move on and ignore V5 equally.
Does Werewolf the Apocalypse have good and bad editions like VtM? If so, whats the best one? And which one is best for the true game, Werewolf the Wild West?
>>81734634my problems with v5 are (almost) purely mechanical
>>81734634I feel very exhilarating to use the most basic vampiric disciplines of a coterie to localize a vampire hunter's families, then make them do horrible things to their hunter family member.Most players enjoy getting the upper hand and delivering strong blow to those who would thing of them as prey.Have you seen John Carpenter's Vampires? The celebration scene after the first hunt? Something like that.That concept could justify including SI in a chronicle, just for the player's and ST's catharsis. A few uses of Dominate and Auspex, a couple of blood bonds, and entire organizations unravel...
>>81734671Werewolf the Wild West. Damn. I regret never getting into that. Imagine playing Get going on around tracking and hanging Wendigos with silver ropes, with the full colaboration of the local goverment. Damn.
>>81734716For that Mage is even better and more satisfying, and I say it as the most magehater guy. Techies, and even Traditions, can create a lot of chaos for their enemies' organizations, in a lot of fun, insidious and overt ways.
>>81734291>Behold, the V5 shill.Because I think you're a whiny retard that can't read? I even told you to just ignore it if you don't like it, how is that shilling? You're a next level idiot, wow.
>>81734771Wow, a reaction gif. That must mean you BTFO of that guy! I will disregard months or years of conversations as well as my own experience with V5 and decide that you won this round!
>>81734787How mad are you that you felt like this needed to be posted?
>>817347956.5 out of 10.
>>81734787>That must mean you BTFO of that guy!I clearly BTFO of someone, damn.
>>81733821To a degree, but mystery boxes in RPG settings are actually good because they let a GM do things as opposed to being entrusted to a single successor or audience headcanons.The item itself is a sealed seemingly impenetrable vial of a mystery fluid, nicknamed Anti-christ serum by whoever is holding it, I have worked out what my answere to its contents is already, shit is going to get wyld
>>81734660So yeah, as said: people got to pick or ignore as wanted. And some of the plot points played a part in up to the Gehena scenarios. And to this day the Nagaraja are a thing. And people can play the Shadow Crusade if they want to. And no one that I know went mental about it to the degee that I see about V5.I mean look at the Assamite joining the Camarilla - A subplot introduced in Revised that they finally chose to move forward - and look at the reactions it got out of some.>>81734674Mixed bag on that. I find the complaints on disciplines perfectly fair, even if/when I don't agree with tham as a matter of preference. For some over sub-systems (hunger dice/messy critical are the first that come to mind), from my experience in play it's tempest in a teapot. Last, people for some reason perfectly unwilling to ignore rules they don't like the way it just was done in previous editions.Still, point is, there's lot of valid criticism to V5, I'm not an apologist, I'm running it along several other systems, and only mostly to test things out. But some of the virulence of the reactions and the nitpicking really weirds me out.
>>81734837>no one that I know went mental about it to the degee that I see about V5It says something when people really hate some product that much, doesn't it? I remember being really pumped up when I heard V5 was coming.I guess it is like the new Star Wars movies; Grognards hated their guts, Summer Children thought they were meh.It doesn't mean that something cannot be objetively worse or even awful, of course, just that people previously invested in a franchise may have stronger opinions.
>>81734868Also, people like to vent unreasonably angrily in 4chan. It's partly the reason the site even exists.
>>81734520>Are there were-dolphins fera?You could make them a kami or just some Weresharks that used the 5 dot rite to change your animal form.>>81734671>Does Werewolf the Apocalypse have good and bad editions like VtM?from what I heard W20 is the more polished version.>Werewolf the Wild West?never played or read it i heard that it was pretty good but hey take a 3 hand counsel with considerable amount of salt.>>81734634>I agree with the other anon, there's a tendency to overplay V5 flawsI mean isn't this the standard behavior on the net? and with that aside I just take tidbits, like blood resonance and lore sheet from V5 for Translated Requiem which leads to a lot of hand waving but hey to each their own
>>81729436Nice. good old Clan Giovanni. Best clan.
>>81734771>He assumes that one cannot criticize that which they don't actively partake in. He asserts that because other options exist, no fault may exist within V5.Refute this.
>>81734868>It says something when people really hate some product that much, doesn't it?Yeah, but how much does it say about the product, and how much about the people?That what's I'm trying to work out here, and since I'm not seeing really anything worth the reaction in the product, I have to assume...Might just be me though. That's part of the value of having that conversation. When we can actually get it going.>>81734888Yeah, self-enforced democratic, Two Minutes Hate and all that... but then I can hear just as much out of here.
>>81734307>guest actress: Here's a sword a hero needs to pull out of a stone to kill dragons>Dean: Well, that aint moving, but I think I can get it out>Sets cracking charges in the boulder the sword is stuck in>Breaks the sword>Still works just fine for killing dragons
>>81734837Look. I will put it this way. When I was a boy I was totally enraptured with Dungeon Keeper 2. I loved the game, from the creatures and lairs to the narrator.Many years later this little thing called War for the Overworld appears. At first it's nothing, then it slowly becomes an excellent game.It is not Dungeon Keeper 2. There are different styles, different approaches. Some are a bit irksome. Some decisions deviate it from Dungeon Keeper's path. But I love, love that damn game.Why, then, V5 hate? When you play War for the Overworld, it is obvious to you that the people who made it love Dungeon Keeper. They have their own ideas and opinions, sure, but they love and profoundly respect the original concept and the original material. This translates in a game made with passion, who turns to have a quality far above average. It is not a perfect game, but it is pretty good, and a worthy successor to the game they recreate.When I read V5... I feel as if the people who worte it disliked most about Masquerade, and they have to FIX that. It is not that they want some changes here and there to better suit their vision. No. Masquerade was wrong. It was broken. They need to fix it. They need to clean it.Now, that its just my impression, but when I read V5, I don't see a work of love made by fans of the original lore and themes. I see a work of hate.Does that explain my overall view of V5?
>>81734514If I were STing it, I suggest home-ruling it as about a sort of progressive moral relaxation. Have them declare that they're willingly failing a Self-Control roll, and add some modifier to add derangements if they try to drop too fast.
>>81734618We don't like your kind around here... *spits blood into nearby goblet*This here is an Angel thread, seasons 1 and 2 only!
>>81735018Haha, Angel does, ironically, work pretty good for a CofD Mage chronicle, rather than a vampire one.But my heart is with Buffy, I'm sorry.
>>81734985Conversely, when I look at V5, what I see is a game designed by (some, I wouldn't wager that it's true of all of them) people who loved V1 but had felt betrayed by the game as it grew in following editions, and tried to stir the game back toward its original roots a bit - not even that much.And I guess we're back to the old debate about different, now seemingly irreconcilable. player profiles to the game.
>come into thread>multiple tard arguments happening>:|Instead tell us what your ideal city/setting is for a VTM game. I could see Moscow or somewhere in Russia being dangerous and interesting, with the mob and the fucked up govt and all the oligarchs and propaganda
>>81735056Why not Vampire? Like I suggested, the first two seasons are strictly Gothic-Punk.
>>81735114Yes, maybe. I am a child of 2nd Edition and Revised.V5 is simply a downgrade for me. Hey, you think V5 is the sequel First Edition never had? Great.Now, however, think that 2nd evolved organically from 1st, as did Revised (rather, 3rd) from 2nd. The evolution kept going unchecked (because Requiem) for ten years, then V20 brings back Revised in a small package.Then you remember Bloodlines, and even Redemption, two games that are definitely balls to the wall Revised.Jumping back to 1992 is just a bit too much for me, even more so when refusing to do a reboot and instead option for a soft reboot of Revised.So that's why I don't like it, while you may feel vindicated after 25 years of 1st Ed betrayal.
>>81735123For sheer novelty? St. Louis/East St. Louis. An utter graveyard of post-industrial sprawl where you can get murdered anywhere, but is secretly a repository of ancient lore and the buried ancients of the Drowned Legacies. Meanwhile, Uktena patrol the region to make sure those ancients stay slumbering, as they were the ones that taught blood magic to the natives of Cahokia before it was destroyed.
>>81735126Because of the whole "supernatural investigator dealing with demons and mages and stuff". That sounds very Awakening.Honestly it is not fresh in my memory so I might be misrembering the feel of the series.
>>81735169That's definitely later in the show. It starts off very street-level, with ghosts, vampires, monsters that defy categorization, and one notable episode with a demon that lives off suffering.
>>81735169Too low tier for mages.
>>81735206Mages are happy to crash a low-tier party.
I need ideas for a werewolf one shot set in the golden age of piracy, if the party wants to play fera, Garou are not permitted, save Corax, but Rokea and Mokole both at least have a working relationship. And Corax are basically everyone's friend
>>81735159I did a St. Louis chronicle! It's such an awful place with crime and poverty and social tensions that it basically begged for a World of Darkness setting.>>81735123Probably Budapest, to take it more into the old conflicts in Europe, and have a reason for both Camarilla politics and Sabbat buttfuckery in the same city, often at the same time.If it was bigger (population wise) and had more ghettos it would be prime WoD setting too. Definitely better than Venice or Rome for an Old World setting. Such decadent tourist traps that even vampires would be afraid to wander at night.
>>81734949I pointed out the specific things that idiot said had possible avenues of explanation, and that was it. You guys have shit reading comprehension.
>>81735226Did you integrate Cahokia lore into it tho?
>>81735194May be worth a rewatch then!>>81735206No fruit is too low for Mages.>>81735223Idea: Have your shapeshifters be on the side of the Spaniards instead of the pirates and the natives. Crazy, I know, but crazy enough to work, and who doesn't like some untreaded road!
>>81735257Well my main villains were going to be Brits, not spaniards, this takes place before the second war of rage, thr antagonist I was thinking of was a wyrm tainted division of the East India Trading Conpany, but also other pirates.
>>81735249Ahm, nope, didn't even know about it. I mostly chose it for the characteristics of the city, their past as the Next Big American City, as well as being a politically strategic population to control between New Orleans and West Texas by the Sects.I am not really into... native american folklore, t be honest.
>>81735287Have you watched Mutiny on the Bounty with Brando or The Mutiny with Hopkins? I think they are good inspirations for people stuck in boats for too long.Oh, fuck, and The Terror first season? I know both are out of your setting chronologically, but there are a lot of good stuff in terms of background. The Terror even has some spooky maybe-supernatural-maybe-not elements in it.Aguirre, the Wrath of God, too, of course.I'm sorry, I am a background/setting-fag, I know not enough about Woof at all to suggest allies or enemies...
>>81735291No fun, fledgling. Still, very strategic city that you can give its own feeling for the reasons you described. It's on the edge of the South and Midwest, between New Orleans, Houston, and Chicago. Lots of open space for the Goblin Roads stuff in BJD and V5, but that might be too fantasy for your tastes.
>>81735147>Hey, you think V5 is the sequel First Edition never had?I *definitely* wouldn't go that far. V5 is very timid in its changes as far as I'm concerned. As the conversation on the Sabbat supplement went, one thing I would reproach the designers is not going far enough, one way or the other, for fear of displeasing one part of their audience or the other. Leaves a tepid middle ground aftertaste.>you may feel vindicated after 25 years of 1st Ed betrayal.I am glad that they finally remembered we existed and tried to finally give us some tools to play the game they sold us, but you know, I've long accepted the game as it was and devised my own systems. And I've DMed games all over the gamut that the line has offered. I'm not against Revised - there's quite a lot of it I removed or edited to better suit my own preferences, but this is how the hobby works.And I'm doing just as much for V5 when I play it.It's weird, from that conversion and another I had this week, how much I get a feeling some of you are almost taking it personally, like a spurned lover or something. Might not be the most graceful comparison, but I hope you get the meaning,>>81735123 Generally: old city, multi-layered architecturally and historically, sufficiently multicultural population (leaves you more leeway to import exotic factions as wanted)… Big messy political institutions a plus.I have a love with Paris as a setting for that reason… The city was dubbed The Vampire City in the 19th century, and I personally love it to have as a recurring theme that the city itself is worse at draining life out of people than any of the Vampires that inhabit it.
>>81735340I have a question but I should probably save it for next thread.
>>81735338Thanks for the suggestions, this idea hit me while rewatching pirates of the Caribbean, and i may visit an out of state friend later on and it seemed like as good a basis up as any for a one shot chronicle.
>>81735340Vampires are fantastical, but yes, I did indeed set it more in a political "realistic" chronicle rather than a mystical one. I would love a setting which involves chasing after Wendigos (meaning real life lore wendigos, not the werewolves) around the Canadian border, but I think Cthulhu (Trail rather than Call) would be a better system than WoD for that.
>>81735364>It's weird, from that conversion and another I had this week, how much I get a feeling some of you are almost taking it personally, like a spurned lover or something. Might not be the most graceful comparison, but I hope you get the meaning,Hahaha, in a way.I was completely out of Masquerade (and even rol in general) from like early Requiem (I noped out of there, even though in time I learned to like it) to maybe mid 2010s? When I got back.I was really expecting for V5 to hook me up, among other things because I really enjoyed returning.I turns out that the damn slut loved another! Woe is unto me, but maledictions be unto her!
Hedgefag shit on my grass again. Keep your pet under control
>>81735365Well, this thread still will go on for several hours, but do as you may.Here the sun rises soon and I must go to bed momentarily.>>81735376I'm afraid I hardly gave you any suggestions, but good luck with your friend!
>>81735123Set a VtM game in 2020 and see if the court survives the year.>Lol, the kine fight over toilet paper>Wait, "lockdown"? How are we supposed to feed?>THEY'RE RIOTING AND BURNING ALL OVER THE CITY AND SOMEONE MIGHT BE DETERMINING WHERE>Lockdowns AGAIN?
>>81735465That is acceptable behaviour in Germany, from where the Hedgefag arises, you know. It is considered a gift.
>>81735223Make the players Corsairs of sort sent to track some wyrm infested voodoo pirate? To play to tropes.Or let's go with that: some official is sent by a bank/insurance to audit a local slaver know to also dabble in piracy on the side. Too much cargo disappearing for the bank's taste. They suspect a fraud. Which there is... but then truth is the captain is a sacrificing the slaves in rituals while still getting paid using insurance fraud.Said official just got back barely alive from trying to meet said captain, his escort decimated. The stench of the wyrm is so strong players can't but notice. He's recruiting to go back at it...
>>81735392Cool idea, lots of fun party shenanigans can go on with a Wendigo. I'm really attached to the idea of doing a Goblin Roads chronicle, as I grew up on the edge of that area and can bring a lot of lived experience to the kind of mundane horror of the area (literally every business also does gambling). I once went to the bog that was a central part of the Chicago story within BJD on a field trip, wahey.
>>81735481I would lie if I didn't think about that for a while. The 2020 Plague is a Technocratic plot to stir up the reality deviants and get their hands tightly in organizations, or maybe a Pentex trick gone wrong/right?May as well.
>>81734837One thing that bugs me is how V5 changed attributes.Honestly I know why V5 got rid of appearance, a lot of players hated appearance as a stat, but it bothers me from a flavor POV. A lot of kindred are vain, shallow creatures. The ability to play a shallow, uncharismatic bore who gets by on looks is perfectly appropriate to the setting and themes of the Masquerade.And having Composure replace it, but not 'really' being a social stat in how it affects gameplay and also stacking on things like will power rolls, was an odd choice. Same with resolve replacing wits than renaming perception wits.
>>81735494Interesting ideas I will make note of them
>>81734634Has there ever been anything like rudi before
>>81734739Might like this. The writing is ass but the art carried it. It's a free webcomic.
>>81734954I dont know man. If aggressively strung together text is enough for you to speak about this topic for this many posts, maybe find a different site to use if you want to talk world of darkness?
>>81735481>Vampires>Who have their claws deep in local governments>Who often run criminal enterprises>Who cannot get sick and need to practice horrible hygiene to run the risk of becoming a plaguebearer>Suffering at all from a "pandemic" all about "rules for me and not for thee">Greatest transfer of wealth in history which just screams VentrueMy court cruised through the 'rona. It was the least eventful part of 2020 for vampires.
>>81735560Attribute adjustments are a direct CofD export, I think. Don't know about V5, but in CofD they worked well enough.>Appearance is a Merit (Striking Looks), very popular among social characters.>Composure is a Social Resistance attribute, reflectiing emotional balance and control of expression. Usually acts as protection against softer kinds of mental influence and mundane social bullshit.>Resolve is a Mental Resistance attribute, reflecting focus, patience and determination. Usually acts as protection agains the nastier kinds of mental influence and magic.>Willpower pool is Resolve + Composure, Willpower is primarily a resource, not an Attribute. Effects that cost permanent Willpower 'dots' were a thing in CofD1e, but got errata'd away over time.>Perception is Wits + <Whatever>, Wits + Composure for basic environmental awareness, Wits + Skill for noticing specific things.
>>81736136so they just welded on CofD junkgood for people who like Requiem I guess but it isn't Masquerade
>>81736136in v5 composure is also what you roll for using firearms.
>>81736213It isn't great for us either, mind you, this bullshit means that Requiem is quite likely to get shut down as 'redundant'. V5 crew brings out the worst expectations in everyone.>>81736221That's not great on the first sight, especially with Composure being a social attribute. Makes some sense, but in CofD Composure/Resolve were important to combat monkeys for different reasons (Fighting Styles and similar Merit chains).
>>81736278>this bullshit means that Requiem is quite likely to get shut down as 'redundant'. V5 crew brings out the worst expectations in everyone.Well yeah, v5 was made by Requiem fanboys looking to 'fix' Masquerade
>>81734954The reaction isn't to the product that's out now that you want to myopically focus on. It's the differences between them. The devs out right denial of what they're doing. The faggots they hire for this shit. The faggots they should have hired and chose not to. There's far more to the franchise than a single book. And that's what people are mad at.
>>81736355Uncouth, but not exactly wrong.
>>81733260The interesting quote is right before that one.>"I also think we should start looking a little more at which active partners want to start working with our World of Darkness ip. >We have to ask ourselves how to develop the brand and the universe, whether we should perhaps co-finance, how to work with licensing and so on"Why does the World of Darkness has three different Visual Novel lines going at the same time? Who financed their development? And for how much?And why does every single influencer hired by that team started doing exclusively World of Darkness content exactly one year before being hired right before the fiscal year ended?Those are SOME of the questions the fans need to ask themselves if they want to see real improvement over the way the franchise is handled.>>81734237Sorry bruv. Hate more.
Question:When it comes to the LARP arena, which has more "fun" potential? Thaumaturgy or Necromancy. I'm torn between a Tremere or a Giovanni with pretty decent concepts for both, but I've read that Necromancy can be a little blah because other Kindred don't see wraiths like you can as a Giovanni.