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Where is Deck 5? Edition

Previous Thread: >>81235507

A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various gaming adaptations.

Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-Homebrew Collection
>https://continuingmissionsta.com/
-PDF Collection
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures

/stg/ Other RPGs (Previous Licensed, Unlicensed, and Third Party)
>https://pastebin.com/v5BgQxab

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Fleet Captain
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/

Star Trek: Ascendancy
-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>http://startrek.gf9games.com/

Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Thread Topic: How big does a starship need to be, ideally, for various missions (how big should a science vessel be? How big should a warship be? Transport? Etc). Moreover, how big is too big for various missions?
>>
You guys probably already knew this but the final version of Armada 3 is here.
https://www.moddb.com/mods/star-trek-armada-3
>>
>>81275232
>TQ
A ship really doesn't need to be very big, as seen by Runabouts and transport ships, but Starfleet ships are generally huge because they're multipurpose, Romulan ships are huge because they want to be intimidating (look at all the legative space in the D'Deridex), and Klingon ships are beefed up warships.
>>
>>81275232
>the defiant
The scene in Star Trek where Worf immediately commands everyone on board to kill themselves with a ramming maneuver just because weapons are down always gets me. Calm down Worf, just because you're suicidally brave doesn't mean everyone else in Starfleet is.
Besides, the Defiant is a fucking sports car of a ship, how much damage is it going to do to a cube by ramming it?
>>
>>81277341
Obviously the point is to ram hard enough you detonate the warp core.
>>
>>81277341
made me laugh too, Klingon pilots. what was starfleet thinking?
>>
I just started STO, made a Romulan because god damn do I love cloaking tech.
How are the Tal'Shiar still a thing? They were basically wiped out by the Dominion, then Romulus blew up
>>
I've slowly been working through Voyager after finishing DS9. Getting towards the End or S2, and I'm surprised the Quality seemed to just increase suddenly. Investigations was good and so was Life Signs, albeit for very different reasons.

It's honestly a shame so many episodes oF VOY are either bad or boring, becayse you end up with gems like these that prove the staff knows HOW to write but just phone it in most of the time.

Ah well. Here's hoping S2 ends strong and S3 brings more to the table. At this point I'm mostly just waiting for the Borg to show up, the Kazon as an enemy are... eh.
>>
>>81277657
Voyagers biggest flaw is that it sets up cool and interesting ideas and themes and then ignores them until the same writer gets another episoide i wont go into more detail as you are obviously watching the series for the first time.
>>
>>81277619
1: the Romulan Empire was a lot bigger than Cardassia, so its likely they didn't lose gather up all of the Tal Shiar for the raid on the Founders' Planet, unlike the Obsidian Order.
2: The Tal Shiar were probably one of the first groups to evacuate all their personnel, equipment, and files(or at least all that weren't needed to maintain an orderly evacuation) when the Hobus supernova threatened the heart of Romulan space.

Also press ganging. Lots of press ganging and hypnotic indoctrination.
>>
>>81277657
Voyager has the most variability in quality among the series. When it's bad, it's really bad, and the average episode's isn't particularly high, but the high points are worthy of comparison with the best of other series. I don't think they're as good as those others, but you can bring them up as something other than a joke.
Last time I watched Voyager, there seemed to be a big spike in quality around the end of S3. I think they switched showrunners around then.
>>
>>81277657
Update, just watched "Deadlock," another good episode, reminds me of TNG's "Disaster" but with even more of a sci-fi twist. Again, A lot of episodes this season have been boring so to actually have three good ones in a row is shocking, but welcomed. Maybe I gave up on Voyager too soon...
>>
>>81278162
Is the supernova canon in the main timeline?
>>
>>81278532
Per Picard it is but people will argue both ways on whether that's canon. At any rate, STO considers the Hobus supernova canon.
>>
>>81278456
I wish they'd done something with Harry and Samantha Wildman being technically dead from then on.
>>
>>81278354
It wasn't until after season 4 that Jeri Taylor retired as showrunner and Braga took over. Season 3 is just when they finally dumped the Kazon bullshit that wasn't working and started experimenting with other ways to make Voyager interesting.
>>
>>81278613
Hobus in STO is basically living on borrowed time, as they want to eliminate anything that contradicts Picard (they deleted Icheb from the game the week after the episode he died in), but everything about Hobus is too big and their current budget too low to do anything about it so far.
>>
>>81278773
Picard is an alternate timeline and they shouldn't change the game and make it worse just to stay consistent with the show no one likes.
>>
>>81278833
CBS is the one they get their license from, so it's either play by CBS' rules or shut the game down.
>>
>>81278833
I liked it and ive been watching star trek since i was 5.
>>
>>81278898
You're not supposed to admit to being underage on 4chan
>>
>>81278916
next generation started airing 34 years ago, If we take into account that the first season of a star trek is always the worst and compare picard to the first season of the first two and even voyager/enterprise it stands up.
>>
>>81278773
I had heard that that's why they decided to keep the Krenim timeship from the TCW arc around, rather than letting the player destroy it. If they want to totally restructure the narrative in the game, they just have someone destroy the Annorax via temporal incursion and the whole thing resets.
>>
>>81278532
I consider Hobus the last true canon event, because:
1. Leonard Nimoy was on board with it
2. It marks the "end" of us following the Prime Timeline and the beginning of the Kelvin/Kurtzman timelines
3. STO ran with it.

But honestly It more has to do with the fact that the whole JJ trilogy really addee just one thing to the prime timeline through Leonard Nimoy, and that was Hobus as an event, and since the films at least had the decency to say "We're a separate timeline, we're not even pretending to be close to prime (unlike Secret Hideout's STD and STP), and again, Nimoy was on board with it... I'm cool with it.
>>
>>81278898
I'm... surprised but everyone has their opinion. But given you're one of the first, at least here, who admitted they like STP... care to elaborate?

I mean this legitimately, what is it you like about Star Trek: Picard?
>>
>>81279282
It touches on some of the same material and premises that made some of the best next generation and deep space nine episoides in that the federation wasnt good intrinsically but good because of the actions of its officers and that while we follow the best of the best who will falter but never break completely humans(and other federation species) are still human.

Not that i think its perfect by any stretch but i see it as the standard first episoide/season problems every star trek series has even deep space nine altho i think they found their feet far quicker than any of the others.

And of course im not a fan at all of the jj movies in almost any aspects and i feel they did a good job moving slowly back to where deep space nine was leading us to so i think given a proper season or two they could have made a decent or atleast par overall series.
>>
>>81279446
Interesting. I suppose with season 2 coming out soon We shall see if you're correct.

I admit, personally, I don't like it. I felt like the android slaves contradicted the lore, the Tal'Shiar being as brutal and blunt as they were didn't make much sense and Seven of Nine becoming the kind of almost sociopathic killer in PIC was an unnerving transformation. Beyond that, Bringing Data back and implying Picard was romantically interested in him came out of left field, his re-death was... strange, and finally the federation seems dang near depressing in PIC, though as you pointed out, that inherently isn't necessarily a bad thing to explore.

I suppose my primary complaint is that it seems to try and be a sort of Sci-Fi game of Thrones in terms of the audience it wants to bring in, but all of this is my opinion, and I'm glad at least someone could find enjoyment where I haven't. Thanks for answering, man.
>>
>>81274115
The notion of "flagship" in Star Trek is so weird. Like, what is actually the purpose of this so called flagship? How does it differ from any other ship?
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>>81280213
In the TNG era, at least as far as the Enterprise D is concerned, it seems to be a symbolic thing about being the absolute best ship in the fleet and showing the flag wherever it goes.
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>>81277619
Personally I would suggest playing a TOS character before the bonuses go away, you only have one day.
>>
>>81280287

Pity, because I like the idea that either admirals still get special flags, or that the term "flagship" for "Ship with the special admiral's flag leading the squadron/flotilla/fleet" just stuck around that long.
>>
You know what's Cool? The Charon Class Romulan Runabout.
Small, sleek, Cloakable, and all the benefits of a starship in a small green package.
>>
>>81282620
I do wonder why they contracted out the design work to the Cylons.
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>>81282620
Personally I love that t-shaped helm design its got going on
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>>81282581
They're certainly still used in the fleet command ship sense, even if there's not a lot of fleet work going on. No space flags, though.
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>>81282906
Early Starfleet vessels experimented with hull panels that could display images in the manner of the signal flags still in use with the navy, but the projects were outlawed after someone hacked them to display Ambassador T'Hot's nudes.
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>>81277619
Also who should I have the Romulan Republic ally with, the Klingons or the Federation?
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Is it me, or does it look like the shuttle bay is loaded like a shotgun tube?
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>>81284614
Doesn't matter much. You'll have a different contact for the next arc of missions and you'll have access to different races for you bridge officer slots. I'd just go with whichever side you prefer.
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>>81275232
Deck 5 is the friends we made along the way...it could also be the midship crawlspace?
>TQ
Depends on the mission. Intrepid is about perfect for a science vessel. I've thought the Galaxy class could have worked best for a colony ship (accommodation, personnel, troubleshooting ability) or as slightly inner-space security, since it can push warp 9 and sometimes punch above it's weight. Akira-class and other middleweights should be on long-range exploration. Mirandas as automated security ships, since serving on one is just shy of a death sentence.
>>
>>81284692
I know mechanically there's not much difference, I meant lorewise.
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>>81284820
Both sides do something that piss off the Tal'Shiar
>unite the sons of Vulcan as Spock hoped to achieve
>or join with the Star Empire's most hated enemies
>>
Thread theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wJRrvVgZI
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>>81284653
Parliament has a fuckton of Argos. They should run a race track.
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>>81284820
On balance probably the Federation. The RR's whole thing is that they want Unification with the Vulcans. Doesn't make much sense to align yourself against the Vulcans in that case.
>>
>>81278637
Y'know, people shit on Harry for never getting his Captaincy, but maybe Starfleet Command has seen Pet Sematary, so they're not taking any chances?
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>>81284820
They both work well enough. I felt like the Klinks fit better when I played my Romulan; that mission did an oddly honest portrayal of both sides, which I had not expected. Usually games tend to lean heavily pro-Federation.
>>
>>81284970
>>81285051
I went with the Feddies, I can't let down Spock like that.

>>81284991
I mean it's less stupid than the ACTUAL reason he never was promoted past Ensign.
>>
>>81285123
That's a reasonable choice. I was pretty torn on it myself and I think they're both quite defensible. FYI later missions make it pretty clear that the Republic itself is pretty open to both sides, so even if you'd gone with the Klingons it wouldn't really have precluded reunification.
>>
>>81285123
>the ACTUAL reason he never was promoted past Ensign.
Which is?
>>
>>81285252
According to what producers said when he asked if his character could get a promotion
>someone's gotta be Ensign.
>>
>>81285252
His actor was one of the more vocal detractors of the writing and direction of Voyager, he was going to get killed off during Scorpion and the only thing that saved him was being in a list of sexiest TV actors at the time, so they kept him around but just never did anything useful with him beyond four more years of "the dumb ensign does a dumb ensign thing." He was also the first Trek actor to be turned down when he requested directing an episode.

I'm actually convinced Timeless was done on a dare, like one of the writers was all "haha Joe we decided to take the two characters we've shat on the most and give them an episode featuring both of them and you're the one that has to write it, have fun."
>>
>>81285333
>being in a list of sexiest TV actors at the time
Really? I always thought that Robert Beltran was more attractive.
>>
>>81285333
There's some rumours that he'd often show up drunk or otherwise unprofessional, but that's also the kind of thing shitty people would spread about someone who, for example, was saying their writing/direction wasn't very good.
>>
>>81285847
I always take stories like those with a grain of salt unless they're actually corroborated by people who were there. You'd think by now you'd have someone going on record being like "yeah Garrett used to show up drunk." It's not like they're averse to mentioning drama, multiple cast members commented on Mulgrew taking out her grievances with Berman/Braga on Jeri Ryan.
>>
Nova-class is such an odd design to me. It has such a 'tactical' profile yet is intended purely for short-term science missions.
>>
>>81285991
It was originally a rejected design for the Defiant class. I guess it was a good enough design they decided they could still use it for something else.
>>
>>81285991
The Nova, or rather a version of it, was an early contender for the design of the Defiant, so it tracks that it would look like a fighty bastard.
I think that's also the in-setting explanation in the DS9 technical manual. Like the Defiant project was ongoing before Wolf-359. But then they discarded the original design because it wasn't aggressive enough Then those plans ended up being used as the replacement for the Oberth.
Helps explain how a lightly armed planetary survey ship got as far as Voyager if you consider that the design was originally intended for taking on the Borg.
>>
>>81275908
I did not know this, and you've made my day anon. Glory to you and your house.
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>>81275908
>>81286151
What's this supposed to be exactly? Is it just a completely ground-up game fan project meant to play exactly like Armada I and II? Or is it that Sins of a Solar Empire mod?
>>
>>81278833
Picard is... okay, it's more wasted potential than anything else. You have a fantastic opportunity to talk about the refugee crisis in a scifi lens, about Starfleet's duty to its people competing with its better nature, and totally abandon it for Romulan samurai and synth hentai tentacle monsters.

Same with Discovery. The Burn could have been an intelligent, long-explored allegory for what happens when people trash their environment (like the subspace damage from TNG), but instead it's just another incoherent fever dream event from a writers' room that is deathly afraid of looking topical, relevant, or thought-provoking.
>>
>>81286090
The flat topped model that seems to have appeared in the last few years is wholly inaccurate. If you look at the overhead sketch for the pathfinder, the hull was always intended to have a curve to it.
>>
>>81286218
It's both
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>>81286240
Right but do you still need the Sins game to play it?
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>>81286263
Yeah you do. I think goes fairly cheap on GOG and Steam nowadays. The SoaSE devs have practically accepted that their games main appeal is the modding scene.
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>>81286218
Is the Excalibur class in the mod? I could never decide if I like that ship or think it's a fanboyish oversized Sovereign.
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>>81286293
It's one of the Fed's options for their Titan.
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>>81286285
How does it play? Is it more RTS like the first two Armadas or more 4X like Sins? I'd prefer the latter but I admit I could never really get into Sins on account of the gameplay just seeming too unfamiliar to me. I can never keep up with all the ship modding and upgrading and research options as much as I enjoy turn-based 4X like Civ games.
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>>81286358
A lot closer to the base Sins experience. Honestly pretty much ever Sins mod you'll come across prioritizes the rapid expansion and complex research tree model of the base game. Though I've found that if you set fleet sizes to small you can avoid a lot of the lategame swarm fleet bullshit.
The same mod team for Armada 3, also did a mod called Ages of the Federation [pic related]. It's set between ENT and TOS and actively encourages smaller fleets and tactical management of your forces. I personally prefer it to Armada 3 but I'd say both are well worth a try.
>>
>>81279762
>Bringing Data back and implying Picard was romantically interested in him
>Picard was romantically interested in him
What the fuck lmao. I didn't get that far into the show but how did I not hear about this before?
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>>81286513
I do like how they seem to have redesigned STD ships to be more in line with TOS aesthetics.
>>
Hey if bullets work so well against Borg drones, why doesn't Starfleet just use guns?
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>>81286903
Because guns working against the Borg is all based off of 1 scene where 2 Borg fail to adapt to being sprayed with smg fire simultaneously.
It is reasonable to assume that if they can adapt to phaser and disruptor fire, that the Borg can also adapt to shield themselves from projectiles.
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>>81286678
If only STD actually looked like this.
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>>81286952
The borg did adapt to bullets, by covering themselves in armor. Apparently their adaptive shields only stop energy weapons but just wearing metal plates will stop bullets.
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>>81282620
How do Romulans know what a Charon is?
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>>81286960
I would unironically pick up that up as an Eaglemoss model. Jesus Christ it's amazing what a few loving adjustments can accomplish. It honestly just looks like a state-of-the-art prototype from the TOS era.
>>
So TOS Starfleet in STO is just an excuse to relive events from the shows as a time cop, right?
>>
>>81286975
Won't protect them if they're shot in the head.
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>>81287020
Maybe they met him. Remember that Apollo was real and he talks about the rest of the pantheon.
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>>81286675
Yeah STP is... bad, man. Absolute shame.
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What's your favorite alien species? What do you like about them?
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>>81286151
I have some further good news for you.
https://www.gog.com/partner/startrek
>>81287063
Pretty much.
>>
>>81287591
That's pretty cool looking, what is it?
>>
>>81287907
Are 25th Anniversary and Judgement Rites no longer on gog?
>>
>>81288403
They are still there.
I just wanted to let you guys know gog was gonna get more star trek games.
>>
>>81278532
STO seems to imply that the supernova happening in the Kelvin timeline somehow caused it to happen in the main timeline as well.
>>
>>81279238
>Leonard Nimoy was on board with it
Honestly I can understand why. The Romulan Star Empire as it stands at the end of DS9, would never reunite with the Vulcans. Now after Shinzon's Revolt would've made the Tal Shiar crack down even more. It needed a cataclysmic event that completely shatters the empire in order for the Romulan Republic to come into existence.
Spock never would've have wanted so many sons of Vulcan to die, but it's what's needed to bring them together again.
>>
>>81288429
The Tal-Shiar caused the star to go nova in the Prime timeline. It wasn't caused by anything in or from the Kelvin timeline.
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>>81288479
Oh, my mistake.
Why they fuck would they do that?
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I'm throwing the Library of Babel and then a Black Dwarf at my STA players in the coming weeks. I'm hoping they'll enjoy the allure of the unknown, however dangerous it might be.
>>
>>81288485
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>>81288485
Iconian influences backed by time travel shenanigans.
>>
>>81288485
They tried to use Iconian gateway tech. It backfired
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>>81288555
It was quite literally an Iconian doomsday weapon that caused it, not a misfired attempt at gateway usage.
The Iconians had been holding a 200,000 year old grudge with the Romulans and subverted a Romulan science officer to do their bidding. Said science officer eventually became the Tal-Shiar's leader before being executed by the leader of the Reman resistance.
>>
>>81288605
"Complex scheming fucked over the Romulans" was the one thing that would have made me cool with the Supernova, and here it is.
>>
>>81287591
Honestly I like all the common/decently developed Ayys on Star Trek. But despite ST being one of if not my all time Favorite, none of the Ayys except *maybe* Klingons and Ferengi make my list of favorites, and even then they're scoring below their weight-class.
>>
>>81288605
>The Iconians had been holding a 200,000 year old grudge with the Romulans
What? How and why?
>>
>>81288843
Because Sela, the Romulan empress, shot one Iconian in the past (when she and Admiral (you) of the U.S.S. Warcrime were supposed to kill the whole lot of them to avoid the Iconian war in the first place) and one of the Iconians got a grudge from that, so she avenged her friend 200,000 years later, also the whole Iconian war happened because the Iconians had some sorta grudge towards us (despite us helping them escape their doom, WHICH WAS NOT A PART OF THE PLAN BY THE WAY!).
>>
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KNEEL FOR IT IS I, MAGI KIRK
post your favorite bullshit kirk moment
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>>81285976
And Beltran never did an interview without bitching about the writing and how bad the character he was playing was being written.
>>
>>81286678
>>81286960
I wish they didn't have so many angles and cut-out segments on them, makes them look out of place still.
>>
>>81277341
>Besides, the Defiant is a fucking sports car of a ship, how much damage is it going to do to a cube by ramming it?
>>81277354
>Obviously the point is to ram hard enough you detonate the warp core.
Pretty much the idea for my Interdiction Corvette: If you're already a Warp Core with Phaser Cannons and Engines strapped to it and have only a handful of crew to begin with, might as well smash yourself against the enemy as a last ditch effort to stop them.

>>81281413
>Personally I would suggest playing a TOS character before the bonuses go away, you only have one day.
I thought Temporal Recruit is going to last until the 8th of October?

>>81284915
>Parliament has a fuckton of Argos. They should run a race track.
You want to get an Argo Ban?
Because that's how you get an Argo Ban!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfAD_xOvKaM
Joking aside, how do they get the Buggies down to the surface?
Do they just beam them down?
>>
>>81288797
It's even more complex than you think.
>>
>>81289444
On the one hand, kind of dull. On the other, it gets rid of the stupid speed holes in the saucer, so I like it.
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>>81277341

Under the circumstances, I don't actually disagree with Worf's thinking. This isn't a Generic Space Encounter #4, where if you lose weapons you can limp away and make repairs at a friendly outpost. This is a Borg Cube getting damn close to Earth, the defacto capital world of the Federation, population a lot. If the Cube can break through the fleet, an awful lot of people are going to face a fate arguably worse than death, and potentially lead to the collapse of the Federation.

Faced with such odds, and knowing that the Defiant couldn't fight conventionally any more, Worf has a brief moment of frustrated rage, weighs the lives of his small crew against a defenceless planet, and delivers a line worth of song, story and memes.
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>>81289624
Good breakdown Anon, Worf's the fucking man.
Janky segway to Klingon stuff, post-dominion war, what does the thread think of the chances of the Federation and Klingon Empire staying buddy-buddy or even getting closer together are? I say odds are actually good.
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>>81287907
all thats missing is klingon academy and birth of the federation
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>>81289462
>how do they get the Buggies down to the surface?
>Do they just beam them down?
If Nemesis is to be believed, they all need a shuttle each to deploy.
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>>81290008
And Starfleet Academy. Unless that's already there with its buttloads of FMV.
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>>81289302
He was experiencing a unique situational comedy. He consistently tried to get fired by asking for more money and more outrageous favors and they just keep giving into his demands.
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>>81290085
already there i think
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>>81290120
I just wanna be there for the episode where he decides to give in and starts spouting native american bullshit for his demands, like, actual bullshit that makes no sense but sounds mystical to the producers, and they give him the sexy catsuited girlfriend that they'd been building for another cast member to boot.

Years ago, I wanted to write up a fictional making of book for a fictional sci-fi show that would have been based heavily on Trek, Wars, DW, BSG, etc in terms of how it was approached, with one of the producers only wanting to make the Space Lesbians show, and this story would have fitted in perfectly with it.
>>
>>81289715

We first have to address the elephant in the galactic room: how the hell do the Klingons respond to the Romulans getting supernova'd and having the heart torn out of their empire?

If we assume that the S31 assessment of the Klingon Empire being too badly damaged by the Dominion War to consider an open war against the Federation for at least a decade to be accurate, and that Martok remains the head of the High Council, the Klingon Empire would likely maintain friendly relations with the Federation. However, those Houses which most closely border Romulan space or have claims on systems held by the Romulans will seek to capitalise on the collapse of Romulan central authority to grab whatever they can get their hands on. Any Federation/Klingon flashpoints will be between Federation vessels on missions of mercy to Romulan colony worlds encountering Klingon House raiding parties or occupation forces.
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>>81286975
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>>81290420
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>>81290420
God that entire fucking scene is retarded. I despise it so much.
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>>81285976

Also, if you're in an ironclad contract playing Harry Kim, then getting wasted is probably a reasonable response.
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>>81286092
> the Defiant project was ongoing before Wolf-359. But then they discarded the original design because it wasn't aggressive enough

And by "they" we mean Sisko.
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>>81290085
>>81290008

And SFC2. I like 3, but 2 is peak SFC.
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>>81287020
Might just be the Federation code name for it, kinda like how NATO assigned code names to Soviet submarines during the Cold War.

>>81288403
That page only has the new Activision games on it for some reason.

>>81289715
No chance once the Romulans got fucked by the supernova. Klingons and Federation are going to have much different interests in how that situation plays out. All Good Things would have made for a more appropriate representation for the situation than Picard has been!.

>>81290008
Starfleet Command 2 and Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates (aka, the good ones) are both missing. So is Star Trek New Worlds (pic related). There are probably others missing but I can't be assed to do a survey of it right now.

>>81290342
The supernova was over a decade after the end of the Dominion War.
>>
>>81290342
Deep ties between the Federation and Klingons would have been born as a result of the Dominion War. As Klingon warriors fight alongside Federation troopers, they would save, be saved by, protect, be protected by, and revel in victory alongside their mild-mannered federation counterparts. Blood oathes would be sworn, people would become honorary members, or fully-fledged members of Klingon Houses and some Klingons may end up decorated in Federation Honors. The mettle and strength of Federation species from Vulcans to Andorians would be shown again and again over the war, and all of a sudden federation soldiers are showing up in Klingon war songs, not as the enemy, but as supporting characters or maybe even the heroes. An entire generation of klingon warriors would have had their first ever taste of battle be alongside Feds. This would be probably capitalized on by any shrewd diplomats or those with an interest in keeping the Klingons from sparking up another Klingon/Federation war, and would provide a vital inroad to a lasting, strong peace.
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>>81290564
There's the playstation games, like that one where you play a fighter pilot under Sulu in the mirror universe, or something.
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>>81290607
There's no reason to think anyone will ever make the effort necessary to port old Star Trek console games to PC so I wouldn't even consider them when looking at what's missing from GoG.
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>>81290507
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>>81290507
Oh you're no fun.
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>>81290150
That...sounds hilarious, write that book Anon.
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>>81290061
>If Nemesis is to be believed, they all need a shuttle each to deploy.
Yeah but the Parliament Class doesn't appear to have the specialized Argo Shuttles...
In fact we haven't seen any Ship in Lower Decks have anything other than Type 6As.

>>81289715
>Janky segway to Klingon stuff, post-dominion war, what does the thread think of the chances of the Federation and Klingon Empire staying buddy-buddy or even getting closer together are? I say odds are actually good.

>>81290342
>We first have to address the elephant in the galactic room: how the hell do the Klingons respond to the Romulans getting supernova'd and having the heart torn out of their empire?
>If we assume that the S31 assessment of the Klingon Empire being too badly damaged by the Dominion War to consider an open war against the Federation for at least a decade to be accurate, and that Martok remains the head of the High Council, the Klingon Empire would likely maintain friendly relations with the Federation. However, those Houses which most closely border Romulan space or have claims on systems held by the Romulans will seek to capitalise on the collapse of Romulan central authority to grab whatever they can get their hands on. Any Federation/Klingon flashpoints will be between Federation vessels on missions of mercy to Romulan colony worlds encountering Klingon House raiding parties or occupation forces.
>>81290590
>Deep ties between the Federation and Klingons would have been born as a result of the Dominion War.
Yeah, STO has a pretty good hold on this I think:
Martok got disappeared by J'mpok, a Powerful Politico but not much of a real Warrior.
As such, he keeps the pot stirring by declaring War on the Gorn, eventually annexing them but souring Klingon relations with the other powers in the Quadrant while also weakening the Empire JUST enough that they can't push on the remnants of Romulan territory while also holding off the Federation.
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>>81290555

It is strange that SFC2 is missing. I've tried playing SFC1, but it lacks some of the shine which SFC2 had (or at least, I remember it having when I played the Orion Pirates expansion for it a decade or so ago).
>>
>>81290150
Please anon, get writing.
No matter if it's only a short story, I still need to read this tale.
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>>81290008
There are a lot of missing Star Trek games. So, only looking at games released after 25th Anniversary (the oldest game currently available), the games not on GoG are:

ST:TNG A Final Unity (MicroProse)
Star Trek: Klingon (Simon & Schuster)
Star Trek: Borg (Simon & Schuster)
ST:DS9 Harbinger (Stormfront)
Star Trek Generations (MicroProse)
ST:TNG Klingon Honor Guard (MicroProse)
ST Starship Creator (Simon & Schuster)
ST:TNG Birth of the Federation (MicroProse)
ST:DS9 The Fallen (Simon & Schuster)
ST ConQuest Online (Activision)
ST Klingon Academy (Interplay)
ST New Worlds (Interplay)
ST Starfleet Command 2 (Interplay)
ST Starship Creator Warp 2 (Simon & Schuster)
ST:DS9 Dominion Wars (Simon & Schuster)
ST Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates (Interplay)
ST Legacy (Bethesda)

There are later games not on GoG but available elsewhere so they're not listed here. Simon & Schuster and MicroProse don't have any of their games on GoG, and Interplay is missing the back half of their catalog as well. The single game Bethesda made is nowhere to be found either, and there is one Activision game missing (it was online only IIRC, so it makes sense that it didn't get revived with the rest).

So yeah, not all of these are amazing by any means (looking at you, Star Trek New Worlds), but there are also some great games on this list which deserve to be made available again in some form.

As a side question, has anyone played Away Team? Would you say it's worth getting now that it's on GoG?
>>
>>81289624
Sure but they're not Klingons, they don't have his "today is a good day to die!" mindset. Couldn't he at least give the order to abandon ship before ramming that bitch?
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>>81289624
>This is a Borg Cube getting damn close to Earth, the defacto capital world of the Federation, population a lot.
This is why it's immensely retarded that Starfleet was like "no Picard we don't want you in this battle". You'd think after the FIRST time this happened, Earth would have a fairly large defense zone so that it wouldn't happen again and they'd call every available ship.
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>>81290629
I keep expecting it to be the truffle shuffle.
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>>81290833
Does STO actually kill Martok?
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>>81291413
He was dead when the game first came out but they retconned him back alive once they were able to start getting the original actors for stuff to do voiceovers.
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>>81291413
They originally did by backstory long before the events of the game, but they retconned that into having his death faked by Ba'ku or something for some dumb reason.
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>>81288257
I just found it in one of the random Alien threads that pops up

>>81288808
Are there other Ayys from other settings that you prefer?
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>>81291445
>death faked by Ba'ku
Fucking Ba'Ku. I wish we could kill them all.
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>>81292432
I'd ba those...ku.
That sounded better in my head
>>
The more I think about it, the more I wonder why Generations had the whole "passing the torch" idea behind it. If the movie was like the pilot of TNG or even the middle of the show's run I could understand that but it happens after Best of Both Worlds. Everyone knows and loves these characters at this point, the torch was passed long ago.
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>>81292684
There might have been concern about the movie audience being different from the television one.
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>>81290851

It's also missing, two or so factions. The ISD for definite and I think one of the Cat factions.
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>>81292892
The Mirak. Missile cats wedged in the north between the Lyrans, Federation, and Gorn.
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>>81280213
And a 'flagship' = 'flag officer', i.e., admiral.
Think how much better ST:TNG would have been with
Admiral Picard, fleet commander AND diplomat
>required to stay aboard as too valuable to risk
Captain Riker, the hot-shot fireband captain good enough to command THE starship.
First Officer Data who tends to lead Away Teams because of his position and abilities
Second Officer Yar/Someone Else
Chief of Security Whorf (from day one)
etc.
A lot of plots would have made more sense
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>>81290908

Is that the FPS or the Commando clone?
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>>81292944

Technically weren't they not cats at all in SFC2 because Larry Niven being rightfully still pissed at Paramount and the entire industry in general?
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>>81293277
Speaking of, there's a Kzinti on the Cerritos' crew.
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>>81293407

I mean, as long as they don't out and out call him as such they're probably fine? I mean he's not a 100% copy of the TAS design, without the hunch and all, but then, perversely I'm not sure that's something the Niven version had anyway.
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>>81292756
I guess, plus they were still making TOS movies during TNG's run
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>>81291361
Keep in mind that it's not a Wolf 359 situation. The Battle of Sector 001 is actually the very tail end of ongoing battle which presumably was carried out over hours at high warp.
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>>81289444
This design is alright on its own but the thing I don't like about it (and the old one that mod used iirc) is that it looks closer to an ENT era ship than it does a TOS era ship.
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>>81291361
When the Admiral called Picard to let him know the Borg were back Picard answered by preemptively letting the Admiral know he was aware and had basically been receiving communication from the Borg directly into his head. Of course the Admiralty is going to freak out about the guy who was responsible for the Borg destroying the fleet last time doing another inside job and sabotaging their defenses again.
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>Decide to check out the new STO story mission
>Game crashes
I see coding quality has remained the same.
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>>81292684
The original idea for Generations was far worse, and passing the torch was all they had left in the tank after All Good Things. Otherwise we would have gotten the madness of the executives' idea of "Dueling Enterprises."
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>>81294394
Admiral Leeta: I need your help, the Emperor has gone doolally and wants to use a thing to destroy the multiverse. No, I will not elaborate.
Random Terran: The emperor's thing is a...
Admiral Leeta: *kills random Terran* I didn't do it


Well I'm sure the payoff in 6+ months will be worth it, right?
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>>81294272
>closer to an ENT era ship than it does a TOS era ship.

Really not seeing how given that it has:
>painted hull
>circular cross sections all over the place
>lacking cut-outs or bulges
>very TOS nacelles
>Constitution style shuttle bay
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>>81294859
Inb4 Mirror Kuumaarke kills a nursery and after that "redeems herself" by going all "Im not actually bad", then Leeta kills her and the audence is expected to feel bad for her.
Also this has so much "just as planned" written all over it it's not even funny.
Seeing a mirror version of my own character at the end of this episode was a nice touch though although now my fan fiction story I store in my head is completely ruined.
>>
>>81295173
The nacelles look like something from right after ENT. That, the general hull shape, and the level of surface detail all make it look ENT to me. ENT era ships have lots of surface detailing but the TOS design philosophy is all about streamlined and simplified forms.
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>>81290908
>ST Starfleet Command 2 (Interplay)
>ST Starfleet Command: Orion Pirates (Interplay)
Rest in peace, sweet prince.
>>
F
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>>81295556
Real talk, TOS-era ships only have that flat look because the budget didn't let them commission fancier models. If you just cover the aztecing with paint and reduce the number of lights, it'd look like a TOS-era ship.
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>>81282620

how does it not fall over with only two support things?
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>>81291413
>Does STO actually kill Martok?
>>81291413
>He was dead when the game first came out but they retconned him back alive once they were able to start getting the original actors for stuff to do voiceovers.
I think J'mpok was suppose to be a disposable Chancellor even if they couldn't get J.G. Hertzler, since even if he had killed Martok he was still the guy stirring shit with the Federation.

>>81295225
>Inb4 Mirror Kuumaarke kills a nursery and after that "redeems herself" by going all "Im not actually bad", then Leeta kills her and the audence is expected to feel bad for her.
Hey J'ula wasn't actually the one to use the Wave Mushroom Gun on Civilians, right?
And at least they made L'rell Chancellor instead...
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>>81286675
That flew over my head. My interpretation was Picard's fixation on Data has to do with his feelings of guilt over his death as opposed to any kind of desire, but that's just me. The series does make a very odd choice to retcon Data as Picard's best pal, when I think it'd be more accurate to think of Data as sort of his surrogate-nephew. He's fond of Data but not overly affectionate, he wants him to grow and change and succeed but Data isn't his personal project. Picard's impassioned defense in Measure of a Man is as much because of principle and his desire to defend any of his crew, rather than because he loves Data in particular.
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>>81296301

what happened?
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>>81297278
Norm MacDonald died of cancer.
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>>81293407
>>81293438
They made a name-drop on PIC, so I think Kzinti are still canon. I kinda like them being in the Trek universe, they're yet another Warrior Race but they have some fun weaknesses and interesting psychology. I love the whole idea that as good as they are at fighting, they'll always lose a strategic war because they can't think beyond "SCREAM AND LEAP!" when it comes to battle.
>>
>>81296301
>>81297304
>Norm MacDonald died of cancer.
F, Yaphit was a great addition as a character for being a some what figurative and also LITERAL Slime-ball,
>>
>>81291326

The question must be asked, is there time for that? The Defiant is badly damaged, and the Cube clearly wasn't mucking around as we see it fire on the Defiant *after* it has lost shields and weapons. Ordering an evacuation would delay the ramming by minutes, which may make it fail. Worf knows that time is of the essence, and makes a command decision to sacrifice his ship and his crew to defend Earth.
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>>81297233
The show was obviously going for a father/son vibe. The romance shit is internet memes.
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>>81293407
I like how despite the tiny mentions of the Kzinti to canonize them, nobody ever tries to reconsile the Kzinti Wars, retcon it, recontextualise it, or do anything else that would be implied by doing so
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>>81300020
ENT would have had an episode about them if they had a fifth season.
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>>81296301
F
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>>81275232
First time playing Star Trek: Attack Wing today, Fighting two other players who have Cardassians and Klingons Respectively. Same Rules as X-Wing so easy to jump into!
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>>81297778
Not that anon, but I'd say no.
In a real-world naval battle, you'd have time, as maneuvering and picking up speed take minutes or hours; the Captain and someone in the engine room would suffice. In a ST battle, you're crossing hundreds of kilometers a minute (presumably), so the decision makes sense. The only thing I'd do differently is if you knew you coild bypass their shields, you-
>a, cut to warp at the last second
Or
>b, detonate the core at the moment of contact
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>>81301268
Nebula's Gone, Defiant's stuck maneuvering around the Planet's atmosphere. This is Fun!
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>>81290833
>In fact we haven't seen any Ship in Lower Decks have anything other than Type 6As.

That's because Lower Decks is actually Good.
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>>81301229
>>81301268
>>81301603
I'm glad you're having fun with it Anon.
>>
While we're on the subject, are there fanrules for converting SW Armada, or is it worth the effort?
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>>81301740
>That's because Lower Decks is actually Good.
Well yeah, the Type 6a might be the Prius of Shuttles, but that still makes it a damn good surface to space mover.
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>>81296301
F
>>
>VOY's Elogium

what the fuck was this episode holy shit, did a writer magical realm a fucking episode
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>>81303519
theres so much magical realm shit in ST its not even funny
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>>81303556
And Barclay engages in it all
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>>81303556
This.

A lot of TOS and especially a lot of TAS was Roddenberry's and his writer's Fetishes, and a lot of later trek was Writer's Fetishes, with ENT beinh basically Berman wanking.
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>>81301268
>>81301603
Final Verdict after a few rounds: Attack Wing is A lot of fun! Fast, brutal, but and a nice balance of Strategy and mechanics that feel right at home with Star Trek. Cloaking is a bit underpowered as my opponent discovered when I concentrated fire on their cloaked Vor'cha and blew it up turn 1, but it's otherwise mostly down to play skill and seeing the Trek models on the table is satisfying.

Pic related is my Fed Fleet, grabbed from the Federation Faction Box and the Federation half of the Klingon v. Fed Starter Set.

>>81301817
Thanks my man!
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>>81290420
So what's the verdict on Borg and adapting to kinetic weapons (or holographic weapons imitating kinetic weapons)?
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>>81304294
Its very clear that the borg shields aren't able to adapt to ballistics, worf proved this a million times over.
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>>81304315
Borg shields are clearly able to adapt to kinetic weapons but to do so is inefficient.
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>>81304331
Funny thing is i can remember once in TNG where this was the case but its never shown again and both data and worf BTFO the borg multiple times with melee.
I think its safe to say that regardless if its unable to or unwilling they don't and that means its their weakness
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>>81304351
And then when the Federation starts to actively exploit this weakness with increasing frequency, they begin to adapt.
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>>81304362
in some parts of the show/movies I think it shows borg with increased armor plating on their torsos. like they're trying to cover that weakness. but again, not enough is shown in the show and movies to be conclusive.
Not sure about supplemental material like interviews or misc lore shit
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>>81296301
how tragic
reminds me of that one other horrible tragedy, a couple years back
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>>81296301
Damn.
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>>81304381
The fact is they never really go enough into it for us to know if just sending in a heavily armored battalion of Klingons that can't easily get injected with nanoprobes would be enough to take out a Borg cube.
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>>81304381
>in some parts of the show/movies I think it shows borg with increased armor plating on their torsos. like they're trying to cover that weakness. but again, not enough is shown in the show and movies to be conclusive.
>>81307763
>The fact is they never really go enough into it for us to know if just sending in a heavily armored battalion of Klingons that can't easily get injected with nanoprobes would be enough to take out a Borg cube.
Could be a "Just stupid enough to work, Rock Beats Laser" sort of situation, the Borg are so up their own ass about their technological superiority that they can't even conceive that just being bonked with kinetic energy could be an effective weapon.
Same reason why my Wells class would make a good anti-borg ship:
"You created an entire starship to be a cutting tool, and are now going to ram us?"
"..."
"Are you CRAZY?!"
>Yes.
*Desire to assimilate Humanity evaporates*
>>
>>81308030
Dumb
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>>81308030
I really hope that isn't it.
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>>81304381
There was scene in a novel, penned by Shatner, where an away team in heavy combat armor all used these 24th century versions of conventional 20th century firearms, but the Klingon used an ancient Klingon flintlock-type pistol and a Bat'leth that had been specially designed to be a vibro-blade. Not surprisingly, the Klingon had more Borg kills than the rest of the team combined.
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>>81308030
In literally the first encounter with borg, a random unprepared drone throws a guy all the way across a room.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3XIsU_6Phg

The exact narrative problem with overusing Borg is that they are supposed to be a nearly unstoppable force, the tendrils of which can only be blunted while the main looming threat slowly comes closer. They work great in VERY small doses. But once hack writers run out of other ideas they bring them back, and you get the Villain Decay of Voyager where Janeway is making finger guns and blasting cubes out of the sky
>>
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>>81308209
>I really hope that isn't it.
That Borg are weak to bonk because they're too big brained for raw force, or my Wells class?

>>81308295
>In literally the first encounter with borg, a random unprepared drone throws a guy all the way across a room.
Yes, thus the Collective might assume that just Redshirt tossing strength is enough, but there is more to melee fighting than raw physical power.

>The exact narrative problem with overusing Borg is that they are supposed to be a nearly unstoppable force, the tendrils of which can only be blunted while the main looming threat slowly comes closer. They work great in VERY small doses.
Yeah, but a threat can only loom for so long before its menace is worn out; Look at Warhammer 40k and its many fold unstoppable galaxy ending threats kept in perpetual narrative stasis.
>>
I've done a deep dive into STO for about a week and wow.

I appreciate that all the story content is free and really there is no pressure to spend money to play through them. That's a huge plus. I like that you can play as shallow as possible and just watch your canon ships going pew pew while roleplaying or you can dive deep into the weaponised autism that is the DPS scene.

I've never played a grindy type MMO game and mfw I learned that dudes spend thousands of hours and dollars to raise a single number in PVE scenarios (not even the fun of beating other players, since PVP is apparently dead).

Overall fun to fuck around with but I wouldn't invest much time and money tbqh
>>
>>81308030

I'm happy your creativity resulted in something you really enjoy, but at this point you're practically spamming MY WELLS class and begging to be filtered .
>>
>>81308818
>mfw I learned that dudes spend thousands of hours and dollars to raise a single number
We talking just an increase or an increase by an order of magnitude?

>in PVE scenarios (not even the fun of beating other players, since PVP is apparently dead)
...'Cus yeah, stat maxing kinda killed PVP.
>>
>>81308867
It's an order of magnitude compared to what an average player with no skill and no P2W will put out. People have gotten to the point where they're blowing out elite versions of the Borg taskforce missions while solo in like a minute per run. They're limited more by the speed and maneuverability of their ships than their damage output at this point.
>>
>>81308839
>I'm happy your creativity resulted in something you really enjoy, but at this point you're practically spamming MY WELLS class and begging to be filtered .
Yeah, it's what happens when you have chronically low self-worth, anyone even taking an interest in your shit is addictive, let alone making it look THAT good.
I should work on finishing my scribbles for the Cavanagh and Witt classes, but "Bigger Carrier what makes Starbases" and "Logical endpoint to the Defiant style of thinking" just aren't as energizing as "Using Federation Uber Tech to create a monstrosity of Mad Science Buzzsaw Spaceship."

>>81309303
>It's an order of magnitude compared to what an average player with no skill and no P2W will put out.
To be fair, the game drowns you in so many choice options you might not ever realize Accuracy is a thing for Space Weapons.
And it's honestly hard to tell if the "Build Experts" actually have the right idea about the Meta...
>>
>>81308030
>>81309744
So when you making that YouTube Video about Your Wells(tm)?

I'm serious. Just make the video.
>>
>>81309744
>And it's honestly hard to tell if the "Build Experts" actually have the right idea about the Meta...
Low tier DPSfag here. They often don’t. Most people crib their builds off of guides online without really considering how they could improve them. The people with the best grasp of the mechanics are usually the people who build around the specific console of effect. That’s why space wizards are so OP right now.
>>
>>81308615
>Excelsior-era Akira
That's actually very nice.
>>
>>81310002
>I'm serious. Just make the video.
I don't have anything suitable for video content!
At best I've got a long rambling blog post.

>>81310243
>Low tier DPSfag here. They often don’t. Most people crib their builds off of guides online without really considering how they could improve them. The people with the best grasp of the mechanics are usually the people who build around the specific console of effect. That’s why space wizards are so OP right now.
Plus they've thrown a lot of good Control shit at us lately.
Hell my main's Scott has been rocking Plasma Beams mostly thanks to the Fek'ihri Torment Engine we got with Leap of Faith, since I also had the Omega Plasma Torpedoes on the front.

And speaking of builds, is the Ancient Obelisk Technology Set worth the Lobi anymore?
I got it for my Orion Pirate Queen, but anymore a Shield Heal on Carrier Pets doesn't seem worth it.
>>
>>81310460
>At best I've got a long rambling blog post.

A lot of channels make videos with less. Look at a lot of lore and theory videos.
>>
>>81310686
>A lot of channels make videos with less. Look at a lot of lore and theory videos.
Even then it's basically going to be reading out the blog post, and with my perfectionism the writing alone would be draining, let alone the extra effort of editing a recording.
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>>81310826
As Picard might say:
"Yet answering the Challenge, stretching your abilitied to share that which you have made, that is the endevor to which many strive. You have, in your hands, the tools to succeed in that endevour, even if only pieces at a time."
>>
>>81310460
>>81310826
Just making the video would be great practice, you'll never make anything, or get better, if you dont start. And it would be a good way to let go of the perfectionism as well. Start with a smaller topic even, just do something, its pretty much the only way to improve.
>>
>>81308615
I don't know if I like the arms protecting the bridge, or if I dislike the loss of sightline. It's a nice pic, though.
>>
>>81308615
I want to see the underside of this TMP Akira. How does the deflector look?
>>
>>81311285
Appreciate the encouragement, BUT...

>>81311841
>Just making the video
If I was going to go through the effort of a video, I'd want something visually dynamic.
I've got one good visual and my original crappy MSpaint, both are static.
If it's mostly just me speaking, that's not a video, it's a podcast.

Mostly I've been fishing for demand to finish the other two Classes, as MSpaint and my own impatience leaves me frustrated more often than not.
>>
>>81312651
You may lose sightline into space, but you gain the possibility of people in the arms making rude gestures at the bridge crew.
>>
>>81312921
Artist didn't make an underside view, but you can see part of the deflector.
>>
>>81313504
Yes he did. Multiples, in fact.
>>
>>81313643
And a deflector close up.
>>
>>81313643
>>81313661
Oh nice, my bad for assuming he didn't. Thanks for finding these.
>>
>>81313686
All good, I only found these by checking to see if he had an artstation account. https://www.artstation.com/artwork/oA3lK4
>>
>>81313703
Some nice close-ups & other views. Can even see the shuttlebay in one of them.
>>
>>81313059
>If it's mostly just me speaking, that's not a video, it's a podcast.

Nothing is wrong with this. Plus a lot of "Reading" and "lore" channels do this all the time. Some have slideshow visuals, a lot don't.
>>
>>81313339
>"This is the Captain speaking: We will be performing combat drills starting at 0800 tomorrow. That is all."
>"..."
>"I *saw* that, Mister Phlebax!"
>>
>>81313504
>>81313643
>>81313661
You guys have an aft view? Curious about the Shuttle Bay.
>>
>>81314130
It's at the art station link, but here you go.
>>
>>81308295
>The exact narrative problem with overusing Borg is that they are supposed to be a nearly unstoppable force

It always amazes me that the Borg only actually appear in six episodes of TNG.
>>
>>81314848
And 1/3 of them are shit.
>>
>>81314859
What do you

Mean?
>>
>>81290810
>>81290900
If I ewver do, I'll post it.
>>
>>81313059
Ask here for art.
>>
>>81314848
The Lore-aligned Borg shouldn't count
>>
>>81316653
They absolutely count because it started the reduction of the Borg into being generic mooks. The story wasn't about the Borg, it was about Lore, and that was exactly the problem, by diminishing their status in the story. Then suddenly you have First Contact and all the Voyager episodes that do the same thing, reducing the Borg into being generic mooks with the Queen being the only important one.
>>
>>81316678
But they weren't even Borg anymore, they were severed from the collective, they were individuals. That's like saying Seven still counts as a Borg
>>
>>81316678
>The story wasn't about the Borg, it was about Lore
Not even, it was about Data. Lore was there so that Data couldn't just be easily fixed
>>
>Klingon military headquarters is defended at all times by 10 of their strongest warships, a tachyon field so that you can't get in via cloak, an extremely powerful shield, and it's in the middle of an asteroid field
>Starfleet security? Nah it's fine, the Borg have only gotten a cube in visual range of earth twice
>>
>>81317259
I don't think the Klingon security forces would be able to hold off a cube any better than the Feds did.
>>
Has anyone read or scanned the new Star Trek Shipyard book? Is it just a barebones collection of wiki facts like the Eaglemoss magazines?
>>
>>81314142
ArtStation loads like shit for me. Thank you!
>>
>>81317349
they probably would imo.
Considering they actually have a decent force and not just "whoever and their mother that shows up with a ship" plus they're more like to use boarding and ramming tactics which have been shown to always be effective against borg
>>
>>81316469
>Ask here for art.
I'm needy enough posting anonymously on an image board as is!
Besides, I'd be much more apt making crude 3d Models if not building out of Lego, with the end result being getting some use out of my Brother-in-law's 3d printer.
But that's better off for after I get a hand-me-down hardware upgrade.

>>81317955
>plus they're more like to use boarding and ramming tactics which have been shown to always be effective against borg
See, told you the Borg were too up their own asses about "Muh Technological Perfection."
>>
>>81308030

> Q: "Describe Anon when he was under your command Captain."

> A: "Bright, talented at engineering... the problem with him was that there wasn't a serious problem, if that makes sense. "

> Q: "Please elaborate on that, it seems contradictory."

> A: "He'd talk your ear off about his damned Wells if you let him, but he did his job. He'd scrounge computer time, ask permission to run tests, but if you were to write up everyone in Starfleet with an odd hobby, how many would be left?"

> Q: "Did this obsession make him unpleasant to work with?"

> A: "Not really"

> Q: "And he was otherwise competent and intelligent?"

> A: "Yes."

> Q: "Is this why he received satisfactory reports and was generally well recommended for promotion?"

> A: "... Yes."

> Q: "I would like to draw your attention to comments in your personal log 'If Anon talks my ear off about his damned Wells class one more time I am going to replicate a model of it and cram it up his...' I think we get the idea. How do you reconcile this with his previous comments?"

> A: "An offhand comment in the log doesn't mean..."

> Q: "I can cite multiple comments from logs or sworn witness statements. He was intolerable to many of his shipmates. I submit to you that you kept then Ensign Anon's reports clean because without cause to discipline him promotion was the easiest way to get rid of him."

> A: "I have never made a false report in my career."

> Q: "That was not what I asked. Let me try again. Would you agree that had then Ensign Anon not been able to obtain promotion, he would not have found himself in a position to effect the construction of the USS Wells?"

> A: "Yes, obviously, but..."

> Q: "Would you then not agree that tolerating Anon's eccentricity as a failure of leadership?

>- Excerpt from the official inquest into the construction of the USS Wells.
>>
>>81318102
>See, told you the Borg were too up their own asses about "Muh Technological Perfection."
the entire "borg will just let you wonder about their ship till you prove a threat" thing is just that epitomized
>>
>>81318223
A humorous Take on a recurring anon.

We have a couple of Autists in these threads that seem to crop up regularly, Autists who you can recognize without namefagging.

And I wouldn't have it any other way.
>>
>>81318223
>> Q: "Would you then not agree that tolerating Anon's eccentricity as a failure of leadership?
I question the Court how my eccentricity over a High Energy and Exotic Matter Sciences ship is somehow a detriment to Starfleet, even if said ship can be used to slice up planetary bodies?
Yes, the Wells class IS a power hog, but that's to be expected in this line of research, and while novel the Saucer Circumferential Heavy Phaser Array can be used as a makeshift Particle Accelerator.
Yes, most Federation Species find the alternating Deck Orientations between Ship Sections to be a bit odd, but no where an inconvenience as the Gyroscopic Main Helm position.

>>81318750
>the entire "borg will just let you wonder about their ship till you prove a threat" thing is just that epitomized
Seriously, not even the Federation let's you wander around unidentified in their ships, AND THEY DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO LOCK SHIT!

>>81319647
>Autists who you can recognize without namefagging.
Hell I'd still be namefagging if the Anti-Lewd Crusaders didn't report bomb me into oblivion...
Still there was that one Anon who could identify my post by his boner...
>>
I don't think I like The Adventures of Captain Proton anymore.
>>
>>81318102
>I'm needy enough posting anonymously on an image board as is!
>Besides, I'd be much more apt making crude 3d Models if not building out of Lego, with the end result being getting some use out of my Brother-in-law's 3d printer.
>But that's better off for after I get a hand-me-down hardware upgrade.

I hear you there. I'm a crap modeller but give it a go from time to time. I'd have posted some more 3d stuff and 2d stuff if Windows didn't crash and burn 6 weeks ago, necessitating it going into the shop for a week. No software afterwards -_-
>>
>>81321627
Yeah, good thing about said Brother-in-law is that he's a Computer Engineer and his firm often has a lot of high end hardware used in Government contracts that needs non-resale "Disposal."
Thus he's always got good computer bits at hand.
>>
>>81290908
Starship Creator was such a heap of trash but I played it to death as a kid.
>>
>>81320706
>Hell I'd still be namefagging if the Anti-Lewd Crusaders didn't report bomb me into oblivion...

...What?
>>
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SAFETY BUMP!
To prevent the thread from dying, here are some facts about the Danube!
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>>81320957
The fuck is this shit?
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>>81325091
Artflow.ai

You type something in and it will attempt to generate an image to match it. It did not do a good job with Satan's Robot.
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>>81325342
Thank you so much for telling me about this.
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>>81325342
Yeah, thanks, this is kinda funny.
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>>81325342
>>81327374
I may be having a little too much fun.
>>
>>81324969
>Runabouts
>Quantum torpedoes
That must be a nasty surprise for the odd pirate who thinks he can handle what is essentially an angry shuttle.
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>>81327928
Same.
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>>81325342
Fascinating.
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>>81325342
It wouldn't make a Klingon but I've got a great new Starfkeet Captain here.
>>
Kind of sucks that Armus is just stuck on this planet with nothing and no-one because he's too evil to be reasoned with and too powerful to take out. And the people that left him there basically got away with everything
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>>81329229
It's Star Trek, it's inevitable the people who created him wanted off into space, found an aggressive space-chihuahua and got wiped out because by destroying a part of themselves they were no longer capable of self-defense.
>>
I have decided that Tendi needs to be in a ripped uniform more often.

That is all.
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>>81331266
This is the nature of Star Trek.
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>>81331266
I believe she should be a giant scorpion more often.
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>>81329229
>Armus forever seething, lol
I actually enjoyed the latest LD episode, but I thought the "lets prank call Armus" bit was pretty lame.
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>"she is not CaptaIn Janeway, she is Captain Freeman!"

How can the Federation hope to survive the Pakled menace?
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>>81331191
Good point, Trek is a very get what's coming to you universe

>>81331538
How come? Curious
>>
>>81331517
Yes, also this, that was fun.

I wonder if the giant scorpion thing is normal or if it has something to do with genetic memory of what Orions evolved from.
>>
>>81331774
I mean it's not really in question that they will, especially not if they're sending the Cerritos to Pakled Planet to do the negotiations. The better question is how did the Pakleds get to be so dangerous without anyone noticing? One ship getting all the Things To Make Them Go, Things To Make Them Strong Enough To Defeat Megatron, that's believable...but the whole civilization?
>>
>>81332126
If I had to guess they made bank salvaging the ships or planets destroyed during the Dominion war. That's a lot of salvage rip for the looting
>>
>>81332126

It's possible that they scavenged Dominion War battlefields. You had massive empires fighting for a prolonged period of time. There was probably plenty of debris that was just scrap to a major power but that they could make use of.

And there's also the possibility that someone else is pulling their strings.
>>
>>81303793
It's nice to see it still getting played, I just wish it had the same sort of online support in terms of resources that XWM had.
>>
>>81332126
plenty of scraped ships in wartime
plus they're fucking pakleds. who's gonna notice them?
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>>81331926
>I wonder if the giant scorpion thing is normal or if it has something to do with genetic memory of what Orions evolved from.
Only if we're operating on TNG rules where Barclay can turn into a spider. Which makes zero sense but did make for a fun guilty pleasure horror episode.
>>
>>81332126
Like everyone else is pointing out, there were a ton of ships getting destroyed during the Dominion War, and once they had some decently powerful ships built up from salvage they could start hunting for ships on their own, and steal parts from those as well.
Aside from that, Star Trek Adventures apparently suggests that they ended up secretly becoming Dominion allies before the war actually broke out, because the Founders offered to fix up and upgrade their merchant ships if they would just take a few of them onboard as passengers when they returned to the Alpha Quadrant.
>>
>>81332367
>And there's also the possibility that someone else is pulling their strings.
They've all but spelled it out in s2e2. There's a theory put forth yesterday on co that lore is involved.
He was originally meant to lead pakleds instead of the both
He showed up in pakleds clothing
And potential foreshadowing in LD includes
S1e5: Mariner learns about him(assumed his info was classified for years before until that moment)
S2e5: There are lore bath bombs hidden among the data bath bombs
If you want to get into real conspiracy theory territory
S1e10: the evil ai from tos came back to life
S2e3 Booklets transport clone has been pretty suspiciously confident.
S2e3: Shaxs came back to life to show that it's no big deal for major players to come back to life.
S2e6: every pakleds says they don't have a big enough helmet to discuss a ceasefire, but despite it being a lie, neither the king not the emperor nor the leader said they had the ability to discuss one.

Of course this might be paranoia but it would be one way to outdo the season 1 finale
>>
>>81320957
>I'm Captain Proton and this is my favorite store on the Citadel
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>>81334324
It's supposedly fucking massive so it will probably involve the Borg somehow, which we've already seen in the midseason trailer.
>>
>>81334571
>It's supposedly fucking massive so it will probably involve the Borg somehow, which we've already seen in the midseason trailer.
Nah, Borg don't think too highly of the Pakleds and aren't ones for proxies anyways.
My money is on Thomas Riker, possibly having been converted into an Agent of the Obsidian Order.
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lol
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>>81335207

I am really hoping that at some point the Kzinti gets to just flip out on some motherfuckers. They're deadly even in TAS cannon. IIRC Spock puts the odds of him defeating an injured Kzinti at 16:1 against.
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How likely is it that we'll see her in Strange New Worlds
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>>81336198
Well given that the Kurtzman Krew watched the Original Pilot, maybe three episodes of TOS, proceeded to throw most of established lore out the window, and finally purged any actual trek fans from his ranks by giving them to McMahan to work on Lower Decks...

Unlikely, unless some memes crop up in which case they'll bastardize the character.
>>
>>81336198
>>81336350
Kurtzman Trek barely has the budget to render more than 2 starships on screen at once, and even that requires copious amounts of low-lighting and distance shots, do you really think they're going to shell out for another heavy makeup recurring character?
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>>81278532
Nothing after 2005 is canon. This is the way.
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>>81336350
>purged any actual trek fans from his ranks by giving them to mcmahan to work on Lower Decks...
Pretty sure he's poaching his crew from elsewhere. Don't ask why, just call it a suspicion.
>>
>>81336515
It is a very sad that a Rick & Morty clone is the best ST show airing currently.
>>
>>81336575
Well good news, you've only got a month until "We desperately want to recapture that Avatar lightning in a bottle" starts.
>>
>>81336575
its god awful and insulting and trek in name only, it's like a 500 pound fat guy wearing a cardboard captain kirk mask held on with a thing elastic cord.
>>
>>81336753
you see thats whats so hilarious about it, its a bad show objectively yet its still the best thing airing right now
>>
>>81336778
>its a bad show objectively yet its still the best thing airing right now
I can't see the point you're trying to make. That living in a garbage dump is better than raw sewage? I'll take neither.
>>
>>81336955
Yeah it is actually better and if you had to make the choice then you better by air freshener and some tarps so you can get comfy in that dump
>>
>>81336955
Have you watched the show? It's actually pretty good.
>>81336401
I'd rather they just hire better writers even if it means other aspects of the show take a hit. Maybe cull some of the supporting cast and do something---- anything ----- interesting with Sasha from the Walking Dead's character.
>>
>>81337230
>Have you watched the show? It's actually pretty good.
Yes, and spamming this to anyone who questions it doesn't make it any better. Take this weeks episode: cue the "pakleds so dumb, they can't tell humans apart" joke. Except they never dealt with Janeway, and she's white...so I guess that's funny? Then the "bigger hat" shtick that ran on the entire time they were there.
Oh, and the armus callback, just for the attempt at a couple of cheap laughs. But keep in mind, being sadistic (even to a merciless killer is somehow true to "the spirit of star trek."
>>
>>81337103
>if you had to make the choice
I would choose to not live in either location. As Kirk would say "the third alternative."
>>
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>>81290342
In STO at least, The klinks did indeed invade almost immediately after. While the romulan government was a mess, and the people reeling, the fleet wasn't caught up in the whole hyperspace supernova bs. (And really, they probably were expecting the klingons to invade.)
The great defeat of the Klingons really killed the stonks of House Martok - who, remember, was probably the greatest winner since Khaeless, and klinks love a winner - and led to the situation where eventually J'mpok was able to challenge him for the chancellorship. The war wasn't a complete loss for the klingons - I believe they got a lot of border systems back, such as Khitomer - but Martok pushed too far, allowing time for the romulan fleet to form up and hit back, in a humiliating fashion.
It also severely strained the fed-klink relations, since of course the federation was all about helping the romulans in their time of need, and not gutting them while they were down. Didn't cause a war like what usually happens when the klinks don't get the feds to agree with their bloodlust, but it was close.
>>
>>81337911
This really sounds like someone wrote their martok hateboner/romulan power fantasy fanfic and it got accepted as a game arc.
>>
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>>81337267
You seem to be the only one spamming. It's always just you. Everyone else is having a good time.
>>
>>81337267
>being sadistic even to a merciless killer is somehow true to "the spirit of star trek."
It unironically is. Picard beamed these over to a Ferengi vessel just to fuck with them.
>>
>>81337267
How is asking you if you watched the show spamming? I have no idea if you did or didn't see it. And all captains have had their sadistic/ruthless spats, so I'm not sure why you're trying to single out LD

I'm surprised you didn't like the Pakled plot, I thought it was pretty funny.
>>
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I could've made her so happy. :(
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>>81332759
Yeah that’s the episode I was thinking of. It made zero sense, but it’s part of Trek canon, so we should keep it and build off of it. Just like we should keep and build off of the idea that there was a big nuclear war in the early 90s.
>>
>>81335207
That was my second-favorite part of the episode. First-favorite was ripped uniform Tendi, of course.

I got a type - defectors from evil races with bubbly personalities in spite of the hardships they grew up with - and I ain’t apologizing for it.

Also inhuman skin colors.
>>
>>81338256
He send them over as a gesture of goodwill. Either they would find some amusement out of them themselves, or they would sell them for a profit. Either way, they benefit.

>>81338293
>I'm not sure why you're trying to single out LD
The show in general was being discussed, and this week's episode was held up as a prime example. I could have just as easily used last week's, where mariner was a vindictive bitch, yet somehow the show still had boimler coming back to her like a beaten dog (because she just can't be wrong for once), but I figured one example was enough.
>>
>>81338256
Scotty solved the Tribbles problem by beaming them over to the Klingon ship.
>>
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>>81338315
I mean not everything was off.
>>
>>81289624
Plus, due to the nature of the foe he was fighting at the time, the possibility of the Defiant getting boarded and assimilated was fairly high. Either you go down and try to take the Borg out, or you live long enough to see yourself become the Borg.

Heck, what happened to the Enterprise E in he film was proof enough that this could have happened.
>>
>>81338360
>He send them over as a gesture of goodwill. Either they would find some amusement out of them themselves, or they would sell them for a profit. Either way, they benefit.
That's your headcanon, he clearly sent them as a fuck you. Also feeling bad for Armus outs you as a shitposter so at least you made it obvious.
>>
>>81338381
That also had the narrative bonus of exacting justice on the klingons for whatever part they played in poisoning the grain/helping the spy. It wasn't coincidence they showed up the same time all this was going on.
>>
>>81338360
>because she just can't be wrong for once

They were both in the wrong. Yes, Mariner was being a vindictive bitch. But Boimler did ghost her and everyone else to go to the Titan, never returned her calls, and when he got back never apologized to any of them. Mariner isn’t a good friend but Boimler wasn’t being a good friend either.

Ultimately the two of them sitting down at the end of the episode and actually talking to one another was a good thing, it was a natural part of their character arcs, and it was comfy as all get-out, especially when they notice the command staff down in the dumps and help them too.

Speaking of character arcs. Note that Mariner in this season has only gone to the brig twice, once in the first episode to reestablish status quo, and once when crashing the shuttle harmlessly into the ship in order to cover for Tendi for a situation that Mariner put her into in the first place. She’s no longer spitefully trying to get herself sent to the brig or arguing with the command staff for the sake of it.

Likewise Boimler’s development continues. He still wants to be promoted but he didn’t raise any objections to Mariner’s plan to essentially cheat the two of them into the party, instead happily going along with it, showing that he’s loosened up and is no longer a stricter for the rules at all times even when there’s no benefit to following them and no drawback to bending or breaking them.

Lower Decks remains a good Star Trek show not just because of the shot alternatives, but because it’s actually a good show on its own merits. Simple, comedic, but full of heart and character and fun and loyalty to its source material.

And if you can’t get that…well, that makes me sad for you.
>>
>>81338423
>That's your headcanon, he clearly sent them as a fuck you
Whatever helps you get out of bed in the morning.

>Also feeling bad for Armus outs you as a shitposter so at least you made it obvious.
Sure, I feel bad for a one off character, and not making a point about the quality of the show. Let me guess, I fell into it with the guy who doesn't care about the show, but just trolls everyone, didn't I?
>>
>>81338435
Okay, so this has the narrative bonus of exacting justice on Armus for being an asshole who killed Tasha Yar for, literally, no reason.
>>
>>81338360
>because she just can't be wrong for once
LD isn't STD no matter how much you want to keep whining.
>>
>>81338480
Well said.

>>81338482
You try so hard at least. But since I know it's bait now it's just not as much fun.
>>
>>81338480
>never returned her calls
The ones where she was screaming at him like a psychopath? No sane person would.

>ghosted everyone
Why make them the target of a sociopath's wrath? All she would do is use them to get to boimler, and he's a better person than that.

>Speaking of character arcs. Note that Mariner in this season has only gone to the brig twice
That's not a great metric for character development. In the same episode, she didn't even know her "friend's" first name, and tried playing it off as a joke, rather than admitting she was wrong (again), and you correctly note that she had to clean up her own mess, by making an even bigger one. That's not character growth, that more of the same.

>but full of heart and character and fun and loyalty to its source material.
It's full of something, but almost none of what you listed, especially loyalty to the source material. It pulls form it to make jokes, but it doesn't treat it with any more respect than the other two shows currently on. It uses the name to establish credibility, and promptly dumps on it every chance it gets for the sake of making cringe worthy "jokes."

It's a reality show wearing star trek skin: equally shitty people being shitty to each other for the length of the runtime, then hugging it out at the end. Or dumping on someone they perceive as even more shitty than themselves, than laughing about how much better they are. It's like an animated version of twitter. Which isn't Star Trek.
>>
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I kinda wanna see these lads in action.
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>>81338497
Except Picard actually accomplished that in the end of the episode. And it was more impactful than a "lolz, we're prank calling someone!"
How does a prank call get justice for murder?
>>
>>81338554
Sadly, it won't happen, except as some hamfisted writing in season 2 of picard.
>>
>>81338572
I dunno, but it made me feel better about it, moreso than what Picard did. So maybe it’s just petty revenge. Like beaming Tribbles over to a Klingon ship. I guess I’ll just have to learn to live with that. Because I *can* live with that.
>>
>>81338614
Based. Anyone who defends armus is trolling.
>>
>>81338614
>moreso than what Picard did.
Picard literally got inside the entity in spite of knowing jack about him or where he came from then got him so screwed up he got him to lose focus so the Enterprise could beam him out, them left him enraged for God knows how long.
That's far better justice, for Tasha than some prank call for for people who have zero connection to her, and just pulled him in for a lowbrow giggle.
>>
>>81338648
>why didn't they commandeer the ship and try to incinerate the planet??
You sound like a retard.
>>
>>81338553
> The ones where she was screaming at him like a psychopath? No sane person would.

The ones where she’s screaming at him like someone pissed if about a supposed friend ghosting them? A sane person would have at least explained why they were leaving, even if for no other reason than the hope that such an explanation would help the person they’re leaving understand why and improve themselves for it.

> Why make them the target of a sociopath's wrath?

You’d have to stretch pretty far to get Mariner to qualify as a “sociopath”, particularly since a major part of her character is that she’s *extremely* empathetic - hence why she is constantly trying to help various worlds improve themselves, and this being the main source of her beef with Starfleet and reason for avoiding command.

> That's not a great metric for character development

It is when you look at the reasons for it as compared to Season 1. You’re so eager to drag Mariner in the dirt for the Orion episode that you’re forgetting that *the episode frames her as being in the wrong* for knowing nothing about Tendi. It’s just that Tendi isn’t the sort of person to hold that against someone when Mariner *does* admit to being a bad friend, explains WHY she’s reluctant to get close to people (which plays into that empathy thing again), and *does* apologize for it and then acts to make up for her mistake that got them into this problem in the first place.

By the way a real sociopath would have at the very least at some point in the episode tried to share the blame with Tendi: “you opened it too! You agreed to it!” Instead Mariner immediately attempts to fix the problem and never once blames Tendi.

> by making an even bigger one

Yeah you’re not actually watching the show.

“The shuttle deflected off our shields, captain.”
“Damage?”
“…none.”
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>>81338694
>why didn't they commandeer the ship and try to incinerate the planet??
What the hell are you on about? Where did anon say anything about "commandeering the ship" or "incinerating the planet?".
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>>81338482
>>81338629
>>81338694
It's the guy who shits up the thread again. Stop feeding him.
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>>81338750
>Where did anon
Don't do that. We know it's you.
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>>81338765
Ah right. My bad.
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>>81338765
We're already at bump limit so who cares.
Guy wants to have his "I didn't actually watch Star Trek, I just heard about it through cultural osmosis and think all of Star Trek should be the idealist meme version" argument, we get to have a retard to laugh at.
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>>81338737
>A sane person would have at least explained why they were leaving
If he were dealing with a rational actor, sure. Nearly two seasons have shown she is anything but.

>You’d have to stretch pretty far to get Mariner to qualify as a “sociopath”
The episode you hold out as your "big character episode" reveals her to be such: her big power fantasy is literally murdering everyone and everything on the ship. Making her "friend" a slave and vaporizing him without a second thought. "But she changed at the end" she accepted her mom was covering for her nonsense, which is not the same. You still see no meaningful change in her, and she goes right back to the same person from that point forward.

>she’s *extremely* empathetic
By treating those closest to her like garbage, yet willing to for her version of help on rando without any thought to the consequences (the obelisk opener). Like those people who virtue single about helping people online, but are terrible people in real life.

>You’re so eager to drag Mariner in the dirt for the Orion episode
It's just one example: she knows almost nothing about any of her so called friends. The excuse (not reason) is because like shadow the hedgehog (donutsteel joke goes here), she's got some dark backstory that prevents her from getting close to anyone, but "she cares so much she breaks all the rules to save the galaxy!"

>Yeah you’re not actually watching the show. “The shuttle deflected off our shields, captain.”
“Damage?” “…none.”
You of course missed the point. Flying the shuttle into the ship was a larger mess than fessing up to the mistake of breaking the statue while she was goofing off. The damage to the shuttle, the injuries, etc. Lying about it (the bee sotry or whatever) didn't change the fact that mariner can't accept responsibility for her actions, all caused by her selfish acts in the first place: insisting to join tendi's mission when it wasn't necessary, the box, all that followed.
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>>81338810
If it were one thread, I would agree. After several threads, it's older than pulaski in that one episode.
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ALL HANDS, ABANDON THREAD; REPEAT, ALL HANDS-(EXPLOSION!)

>>81338877
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>>81338888
Holy fucking based, the quads have spoken.
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>>81338360
> because she just can't be wrong for once

But she is wrong, a lot. Like in that S1 episode where the first officer literally shows her she was wrong and saving the crew's lives in combat, or the time her former classmate called her out for being lazy and scared of responsibility, or the time she upset all of her friends by going on a power trip on the holodeck... And those are just big plot examples.
If you somehow missed all the times she's either been wrong or called out for her flaws you must not have been paying attention... OR, you made up your mind before watching the show that it would be terrible, and so that is what you see.
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>>81338480
Very well put, my friend
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>>81338553
>and tried playing it off as a joke, rather than admitting she was wrong

Having an issue admitting one is wrong is a valid character flaw, especially when the show itself demonstrates that she is not only wrong, but dealing with it poorly.
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>>81339319
>But she is wrong, a lot.
Not from the show's perspective, as I explained. Try reading for once. Everything else I already covered elsewhere, which you already would have noticed, if your blinders weren't on.

As for your big "OMG, YOU DIDN"T SEE THE SHOW" I mistook the one time she didn't bulldoze her way over someone to come along,, when she does that every other time. Easy to mistake, if you actually watched the show.
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>>81338765
There are two:
The one who knows how to type, which is the one we're seeing today, and then pic related, our lolcow who seems to have gone into hiding
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>>81338553
>>81338863
Well said, anon. At least someone is critically thinking about this "show."
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>>81339601
Largely, you: no matter the topic you get a rise out of trolling people with topics you have admitted several times you have zero stakes in. It doesn't matter if they are a "lolcow" or whatever, if you weren't egging it on, most of the time none of this wouldn't be happening.
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>>81338863
>mariner can't accept responsibility for her actions, all caused by her selfish acts in the first place

Yes. This is a character flaw, and character flaws are necessary for writing good characters.

See, when Michael Burnham doesn't accept responsibility or whatever, the universe agrees and proves her right, but when Mariner doesn't accept responsibility for her actions, the show makes it clear she's acting foolish and in the wrong.
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>>81339653
>the show makes it clear she's acting foolish and in the wrong.
...by having her constantly getting away with it and having her punishments be considered a badge of honor to her (her brig time, lack of rank, etc). The season one finale literally demonstrates what you're talking about: the universe did bend around her when apparently no one on the ship could think of how to get out of the situation, and of course she gets to be Captain and save the day, then gets the green light to do whatever she wants form her mom at the end of the season.

This doesn't change in season two: even though she isn't officially working for the captain any more, she still gets to do what she wants, when she wants with little or no consequences. And she is either vindicated in the moment, or by the end of the episode, when she somehow instantly downloads the skills needed in the future (the diplomacy episode).
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>>81339651
It takes two to tango. If someone feels so passionate about a fictional cartoon that they make that posts's screencap, or write paragraphs either defending it or defaming it, it's fun to keep the ball going. At that point, it becomes an exercise in debate, and, so long as the anons remain rational, it's a fun diversion from a slow work day, but if one becomes irrational, then it becomes a hilarious circumstance.
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>>81339740
It appears we have reached an impasse. You maintain the show justifies her position, while I maintain the show demonstrates why her flaws are flaws, and despite both of us presenting evidence of our cases, we are unable to convince the other that our evidence is sufficient.

At the end of the day it's a cartoon and our feelings are subjective, so I lay it to rest for now, and hope to see you in the next thread, friend. I applaud you for remaining rational and cool-headed even though we disagreed!
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>>81339812
Likewise. Thanks for being civil.
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>>81339782
Debate is one thing, but to just just bait people for your own amusement isn't debate, it's trolling. Especially when it does nothing but shit up the thread. As you said, it takes two to tango, and if you weren't baiting people, a number of these probably wouldn't have happened. All of them? Most of them? Who knows? Enough of them to make a noticeable difference? Definitely.
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>>81337327
Which is?
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>>81341032
There's literally a plethora of decent Trek to choose from. acting as if one has to choose from garbage or sewage as the only options is insanity.



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