Jae Padding Out Her Resume EditionPrevious Thread: >>81211075A thread for discussing the 'Star Trek' franchise and its various gaming adaptations.Game ResourcesStar Trek Adventures-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html-Homebrew Collection>https://continuingmissionsta.com/-PDF Collection>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/Star_Trek_Adventures/stg/ Other RPGs (Previous Licensed, Unlicensed, and Third Party)>https://pastebin.com/v5BgQxabStar Trek: Attack Wing-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/Star Trek: Fleet Captain-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/Star Trek: Ascendancy-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)>http://startrek.gf9games.com/Lore ResourcesMemory Alpha - Canon wiki>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:MainMemory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_PageFan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXFStar Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html/stg/ Homebrew Content>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyPThread Topics: What are the possible in-universe explanations behind Jae's division transfers? Also, are you satisfied with the NX-01 design or should they have tried something less familiar and more downgraded?
>>81235507>JaeThe Jaes 8, 12 and 43 are from a clan of clones, those three decided to join Starfleet.
>>81235507>What are the possible in-universe explanations behind Jae's division transfers?Trying to get more time to hang out with her best friend.
>>81235507Clearly, Jae has embraced the ideal of self improvement. When we first meet her, she is in Operations, but as time goes on she discovered an aptitude for command, so by the time of Generations she has successfully transfered to the Command track (and fairly recently at that, as she's wearing the newer pattern of uniform).She uses the downtime between the loss of the Enterprise-D and the launch of the Enterprise-E to return home, and rekindles her love of the sciences after revisiting the library her grandparents had built. With this newfound fire, she transfers to the Science division, and manages to secure herself a seat aboard the Ent-E because Riker knows that once she sets her mind to a task, she will excel at it.
>>81235507>What are the possible in-universe explanations behind Jae's division transfers?Same reason as any other division transfer, they just wanted a different position.
>>81230398>Star Trek has a eeird double stance where they insist "Religion is Primitive," then also similarly hold stuff like the Traveller and Native American Religious beliefs as being super wise and advanced.Was there a reason behind this or was it just a cultural thing for people in the 90s to prop up Native American religions/beliefs in particular? Because from other old shows and movies in the era, it seems this wasn't limited to ST.
>>81237096The 90s had a rise in environmentalism, which in turn led to a rise in Native pandering by bringing back the old wise Native mournfully looking at the horrors of modern industry and longing for their old traditional ways. The rise in Native pandering stemmed from that.
Watching DS9 for the first time in forever. Is the Dominion ever explicitly evil?Weyoun casually talked about fragging Earth because it would be a center of resistance in the Alpha quadrant, implying the Vorta aren't opposed to genocidal conduct and presumably have done it before. But is this ever expanded upon or just implied. It almost seems like the Dominion is just a more muscular and hierarchical Federation , enforcing peace by threat of overwhelming force.
>>81237614They do a lot of shady shit that the UFP would never contemplate. An army of genetic-crackhead phaser fodder, infecting a planet with super-AIDS, they genocided the previous masters of the insufferable flaky skin assholes and exterminated New Bajor to the last child. There's probably other stuff.Which is not to say it's probably all bad. I imagine that if you keep your head down, don't rock the boat and pay your tribute on time it's extremely safe if slightly socially stagnant in the core worlds.The biggest problem is that they're very expansionist as well as heavy handed.
>>81237614Well the first thing they do is destroy all the Bajoran colonies in the Gamma Quadrant instead of at least having the courtesy of saying "this is our turf, fuck off" and there's another episode where they sentence an entire world to a slow acting sterilizing genocide virus for trying to tell the Dominion to go away. There are probably other examples.
>>81230398>>81237096Trek's ideals are 1960s American ideals, they're freedom-loving Christian egalitarians who love peace and will kill for peace. The ideals of Star Fleet are their real religion, and when you view it that way then yea Kirk imposes his religion all the time, but he never imposes the Christian/spiritual/metaphysical elements of his religion, that's something that a backwards alien tyrant would do.Americans (especially back then) totally did idealize Native American religion, and not without religion. Native Americans saw their lives as one small part of the larger natural system, and in this respect were vastly more advanced than the Europeans who believed that nature was just part of God's providence for them. But if you just watched Star Trek then you'd think that Native Americans never killed each other ("the bows are for hunting!").But yea, none of the goodguys in Star Trek ever insist that religion is primitive, they insist at most that religion is private and that religious oppression is primitive.
>>81237614Season 4, episode 24 - The Quickening.Also what they did to the Cardassians at the end.
>>81237834>Americans (especially back then) totally did idealize Native American religion, and not without religion.>and not without reasonFuck me, I read that mistake three times and I still posted it twice.
>>81237866>I can only imagine how tiresome TOS is to someone who doesn't genuinely love and believe in American values.I forget if it was the guy that made Evangelion or the guy that made Gundam but one of the two complained about TOS for that same reason, too much "Americans know everything."
>>81237893I totally believe in Star Fleet values and I still think it's too much "Americans know everything."
>>81237977The thing with Star Trek is it was made by Americans for Americans. Humanity is supposed to be the ideal version of humanity according to the writers, and the other species are supposed to represent elements of American society that the writers think are bad. But outside of America without that context, it looks like the white American Kirk lecturing non-Americans.
Doug Drexler working on Picard now. I assume that means we'll be getting actual ships?>>81235507>>81236367I think looking at some of the things the Federation could be against as ways to separate them could work. The most immediate being an alternate Federation that's okay with genetic engineering and using robots/AI as manual labor.
>>81238088Star trak are commies
>>81235507Nice "Master-of-None" you've got there.
>>81237787>destroy all the Bajoran colonies in the Gamma QuadrantOkay but what evil stuff does the Dominion do?
>>81238383Cucked Dukat out of fucking all those Bajoran whores.
>>81238088Reasonable take. I mean, when they visit a planet that's literally Nazi Germany, that's re-enacting the most basic version of the U.S. heroic-Americans-vs-foreign-tyrants narrative, but even then you find out that the German culture was imposed by a Star Fleet guy who thought he was doing the right thing. All Kirk's best enemies were Star Fleet guys going off the deep end. It's about what it would mean to be a good empire, and about how easy it is to turn into a bad empire, and it's trying to express a post-nationalistic ideal but it's so deeply rooted in the American self-image. Then there are the other power-dynamic-episodes, the ones where Star Fleet are the primitive ones, but these tend to play out more like pulpy adventure stories where the pompous space-wizard eventually gets pushed into poop.
>>81238088Non-Clap who enjoyed TOS. The anatomy of an episode typically involved Kirk reeing at a culture that didn't have to work to survive anymore and shutting it down. Or falling in love again. It was very Of It's Time and you have to enjoy it for that. Though it pushes it a bit when Kirk meets Lincoln, Patron Saint of No More Racism or reads the actual declaration of independence (? It has been a while) to a bunch of savages, you can only really laugh at that.
>>81238548The savages were ancient Americans whose society had collapsed centuries before, their leaders regularly read the Declaration of Independence as a religious thing, but they slurred all the words and forgot their meaning. And that was obviously their problem, if you REMEMBER what the Declaration of Independence MEANS then all your problems are solved. I have no clue why this planet had ancient post-apocalyptic Americans in it, I remember all the other times that Star Fleet found their own past on an alien planet it was usually explained as cultural contamination from previous Star Fleet visits, but I can't remember what the contamination event was for that episode. Kirk really hates machine intellects. An alien could be forgiven for characterizing Star Trek as one big crusade against machine intellects. The living space-tyrants can be talked to, and if they die anyway it's supposed to be sad, but any sort of benevolent machine needs to be executed (preferably by paradox).
>>81238683>any sort of benevolent machine needs to be executedThe issue is that they weren't benevolent at all.
>>81238703They almost always were. I admit, I'm only halfway or so through season 2, but the only non-benevolent A.I. that I can think of was The Changeling.The benevolent A.I.s have always arrived at shitty solutions to shitty problems, and there isn't a single occasion in which Kirk has a better solution, he just destroys the machine and says "LOL good luck with this shit I'm out." The message is that it's better to be free with problems than it is to be oppressed in a utopia, and in broad strokes I agree with that message, but you never see anyone taking responsibility for any of the problems that the old machine-tyrants were solving, just vague implications that the people will be freer and nobler now that they have been liberated. It's a bit like leaving a domestic animal in the middle of the woods and telling it to go be free, it's rarely going to end well.
>>81238873>The benevolent A.I.s have always arrived at shitty solutions to shitty problemsThen they weren't benevolent, they were cold and lifeless, which is the point of the episodes in question. For example in A Taste of Armageddon, the reliance on the computers to simulate war led to the populations of both planets just accepting death as a series of numbers since it meant the planets themselves didn't have any physical signs of war. The alternative Kirk proposed was to actually accept peace instead of accepting war as an inevitability.
>>81238974>Then they weren't benevolent, they were cold and lifeless, which is the point of the episodes in question.Those aren't mutually exclusive, your pro-meatbag bias is obviously getting in the way. >A Taste of ArmageddonI loved this episode, and I think it's different because the A.I. wasn't an overlord making decisions for them, it was just a highly robust simulation of the war that they weren't having. But, again, we see Kirk destroying the old order and then doing nothing to help manage the alternative. His actions could have easily extinguished all life on both planets, but they don't, because Kirk's "LOL good luck with this shit I'm out." strategy always works.
>>81238873I was excited in Lower Decks specifically calling that out with a willingness to explore it further via stuff like Landru amd the Pakleds and it's a bummer that seems to have been put on the backburner. I know you can only do so much with 10 episodes a season but I hope they go back to trying to mine that concept of Starfleet fucking off and assuming the day is saved.
Thoughts on the Concorde-class?
>>81239116Well it's all out war with the Pakleds now so kinda? At the very least relations are hostile with constant skirmishes so they're basically the new Klingons.
>>81238953>>81238953>M-5>Non-benevolentDebatable, it was quite literally a human intellect copied in mechanical form, and it ends up trying to kill itself because Kirk makes it feel guilty. And this episode still had a lot of silly pro-meatbag propaganda. I especially like the scene where M-5 handles the bridge in combat and outperforms everyone; it almost feels like a meta joke, because the audience must surely notice that their "Tell Kirk what happened and wait for him to give an order" system isn't the most efficient way to react in combat.
Wish Rommies used their Republic uniforms from the start instead of those grey blocky ones. The sleeker, greener designs are more consistent with their ships.
>>81239161It's a bit squished and the tail sticks out a bit far, but overall it's not bad.
>>81239161Not the worst thing Cryptic has ever done. I wouldn't call it good but it's not offensive. Fits the style they went for with the relaunch.
Steamrunner got a model update in the background, too. Presumably the T6 will be revealed in a couple months.
>>81239198We're definitely getting that paid off soon so let's hope they tie it back to the whole idea of not following up on things that they should
>>81239198Does Boimler ever get competent? I'm sick and tired of seeing main characters that are just punching bags for other characters to look better than.
>>81239981Boimler has two problems, the first is crippling anxiety where he screws up because he's afraid to screw up, the second is comically bad luck where he ends up being wrong even when there's every reason to think he's right. If he could overcome both of these problems he'd be captain material. It seems likely that he'll outgrow his anxiety eventually, but in that case he'll just be Sulu, he'll be the good lad that bad things always happen to.
>>81239981He's been competent since last season, he was actually a rock star on the Titan despite keeping his personality.
>>81239981https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-gudZBXmI0&ab_channel=LowerDecksHe has a remarkably strong work ethic and strong principles. He does have a massive anxiety problem but also clearly believes in the Cerritos and its crew. He also has impressive talk no jutsu skills, most recently with the Titan crew and again with the Ferengi outpost.
Is there any machine intelligence/race in Star trek that would make the mistake of reactivating a dormant Doomsday Machine without bothering to alter it's programming due to a belief in the sanctity of artificial intelligence? Are there any organics that might do this? If the Pakleds want all the ship parts so they can build their own Doomsday Machine, what would it look like and what other unique modifications would they make to the hull and weapons?
>>81240181There's always whatever machine world ended up upgrading V'ger into what it was in the film, I don't think they ever actually explained who was responsible for that.
>>81239981He's never been incompetent.
>>81239161is that 4 nacelles of just a funky pair? if it's only a pair the design breaks the rules of "no obstructing nacelles forward" (saucer in the way) and "nacelle pairs must be able to see each other along the lateral axis"
>>81240356You act like anyone's given a shit about the rules at any point in the 21st century.
>>81240372it's my only critique of the design? but it looks like they just have a really funky 2-pair nacelle design anyways sooooo...
>>81240225I think one of the books decided that the Borg were responsible for that.
>DS9 season 6, "one little ship"holy shit this is stupid/fun. I must have missed this episode back in the day. One smoll Runabout fired a photon into a Jemhadar's chest I actually loled
>>81239161It's like a top-flat, belly-thicc Sovereign. Not bad, but there's lots of better ones.
>>81240429Yeah.... that's why lots of books should be ignored. The borg acting in character wouldn't even see that probe as worth assimilating, much less wasting resources on to build into a massive ship.
>>81235507>Jae Padding Out Her Resume EditionI feel like switching from Ops to science isn't a huge surprise. Maybe a odd being in command track in between her careers.
>>81237834>Native Americans saw their lives as one small part of the larger natural system, and in this respect were vastly more advanced than the Europeans who believed that nature was just part of God's providence for them.Something to keep in mind about Native Americans is that a lot of the cultures that were still extant when Europeans started exploring and writing about them were essentially the isolated, backwards bumpkins who had managed to survive the various societal collapses that had preceded and immediately followed European contact. The Native Americans were by no means above fucking up their local environment and it was a contributing factor to the downfall of several major cultures, well before the Europeans had ever set foot on the land. Overhunting, deforestation, soil depletion. The larger Native American cultures were running into these issues regularly right up to European arrival. In other words, the image that the Natives, as a whole, were attuned with nature is a rosy view.
>>81235507>What are the possible in-universe explanations behind Jae's division transfers?No one cares about your waifu, fag.
>>81240738Is he firing near a warp core?
>>81240345>That smirk when he starts blasting them
>>81235507TOS Chekov was being trained at the science station as well as being navigator.IIRC, Scotty wore command gold, and Sulu science blue in the second pilot.Cross-training is a thing, especially for junior officers.
Ship/station captains, First officers, and admirals should have a vertical shoulder strip over the right shoulder. That is the color of the branch they came up through. Picard would have a red uniform of command, with the red stripe. Janeway would have a blue stripe on a red uniform.
>>81240961Note how he hesitates when the runabout ducks behind the warp core. Although, the 'if this breaks the ship blows up' components are hopefully rated to survive hand weapons.
>>81241789Hand Phasers can disintegrate things the Size of a warp core in the late 24th century.
>>81241803Yeah, but it didn't even blow a hole in the wall so it's probably set on murder and not obliterate. The forcefield around the core could probably handle that, though it's still not something you want to test.
>>81241827>The forcefield around the coreBut it's only online in emergencies, isn't it?
>>81237096They were magic space aliens who made Wesley go away. Clearly their religious views were not primitive.
>>81235507>jaei love this kinda autism that ST puts in
>>81241858There were heat and radiation concerns when they thought they might lost it in The Adversary, so it'd seem like there's either something on all the time. Maybe only when they're at warp or otherwise in a high output situation.
>>81239067>but they don't, because Kirk's "LOL good luck with this shit I'm out." strategy always works.I was watching that episode of DS9 "the reckoning" and all I could think about the entire time was how prime kirk could bullshit his way through it
>>81237893I'm probably going to say Anno because he's a japanese nationalist who ultra-idealizes the past, Tomino has much more universalist beliefs towards things like bigotry and human advancement (famously he once flew off the handle when finding out people were giving Romi Park shit for being half-Korean)
>>81238458>All Kirk's best enemies were Star Fleet guys going off the deep end.Well except Khan. And the guy from ST3 that killed his son.
>>81241858I'd consider weapons fire in the engine room an emergency that requires the core's forcefield to go up.
Surely any material that can keep a matter/antimatter reaction contained can withstand whatever possible power output a hand held weapon can put out. If for no other reason than not allowing a dude having a bad day to casually obliterate his ship with the equivalent of a revolver
>>81240580Command track could also mean an administrative posting within Ops or Science. The Ent-D also had some overlap in divisions, as Data was the science officer despite being in Ops.
>>81235507Bros I don't feel so good.
>>81239161Am I imagining that the 25th century has this whered white with black stripe aesthetic with orange and blue nacelles? I feel this isnt the first time I've seen this design cue and Im not the biggest fan. I do like the shape.
>>81242690It's STO's general trend for the post-Sovereign generation of Federation ships.
>>81242770Yep. Personally I like it for pushing the design philosophy forward without going too apeshit like some of the "far future" designs we've seen.
>>81242840I like the hull colouration, but I'm not a fan of the nacelles. Both the orange and blue seem too vibrant. I'd prefer them to be using the deeper red for the bussard caps, and a minimal exposed area of dark blue on the nacelle itself.
>>81243152Meh, that wouldn't have been distinct enough. Just by seeing that signature cyan and orange you know you're looking at a 25th century cruiser.
>>81242690I for one preferred the C-store Tier 5 ship designs they went for before joining with Cryptic and starting Tier 6 ships.
>>81239198Why does Rikers crew got those DS9 looking uniforms but the Cerritos got new and spiffy ones?
>>81245269The DS9 uniforms are for Cool People Who Do Cool Things and the Cerritos uniforms are for Lame Losers That Nobody Likes.
>>81244115>Before joining with CrypticNo wait, I am retarded, I meant when they joined up with Arc.
>>81245277>Mfw this is word-for-word what the regulations and lawbooks state on the issue>Not a soul in the federation has any issue with it
>>81245397Illegalize Catnip! Call your Federation Senator Today!
>>81245277uniforms with more color>>>uniforms with more black
>>81242770Ive seen it on a couple ships but wasnt sure if it was common enough to be a trend.>>81242840I guess it's a nice way to have a distinct aesthetic. I pretty much knew where to place it in my head based on nothing but other stuff I've seen so it does work.
>>81242080You don't even remember Kruge's name?
>>81247425Honestly despite the fact that I don't think it's a bad film, I remember fuckall about Search for Spock.
>>81241967Okay, I'm sure we've done this hundreds of times but I'm doing it again.Kirk and Spock are the same level and are the two most powerful officers in Star Fleet historyAssuming that Q isn't wearing his Star Fleet uniform. This makes Kirk the most powerful human human protagonist ever depicted. Other human- or near-human figures like Khan might be higher level, but Kirk is still a better captain than Khan, because he's minmaxed to be a good captain. Scotty and Bones are T2, along with some of the most powerful protagonists from later series, such as Picard and Odo. Picard is a very effective captain, almost as effective as Kirk, and he can arguably bullshit just as hard as Kirk can, but as part of the away team Picard is much weaker. T3 is other highly-effective crewmen such as Riker, Miles O'Brien and Geordi La'Forge. O'Brien is less effective as a leader/captain/bridgecrew than Geordi or Scotty, and Geordi is a less effective engineer than Scotty or O'Brien, but put O'Brien and Geordi together and you've got a Scott. Similarly, Kirk can do everything that Picard can do plus everything that Riker can do.T4 is Jobbers such as Sulu and Warf.
>>81238683>I have no clue why this planet had ancient post-apocalyptic Americans in it, I remember all the other times that Star Fleet found their own past on an alien planet it was usually explained as cultural contamination from previous Star Fleet visits, but I can't remember what the contamination event was for that episode.Ancient aliens took people from all the nations of earth, then settled them on another planet where they recreated their old societies and had an even worse world war three than the real earth did. Also they sent those humans back in time.That's my theory anyway, makes more sense than an alien planet developing like that on its own imo.
>>81247538>>81247425>When you realise that the Klingon ship the TOS crew use to travel back in time in ST4 belonged to Doc Brown.
>>81247820>Okay, I'm sure we've done this hundreds of times but I'm doing it again.What, trying to start a fight?Do we assume that movie VI Captain Sulu is in a higher tier than TOS Lt. Sulu, or are suggesting officers never change or improve?
>>81247820>T4 is Jobbers such as Sulu and Warf.In fairness, if they ever actually listened to Worf a LOT of episodes would have been a lot shorter and lot less hassle for everyone. Plus, when you don't have Worf, you have Red-Shirts (Or Gold-Shirts by this point) dying left right and center. Worf is the Alpha-Red Shirt, the Security Officer who didn't just survive, but he survived his show and went into another one.
>>81248082Sweet fucking Jesus. That never occurred to me.
>>81248082Well shit, those facts never clicked in my mind.
>>81248243The best part is he survived and then went and put on a red shirt, followed by losing to an alien so hard that the alien died.
>>81248243You're absolutely right, but Sulu does it better. Kirk keeps sending Sulu into shitty situations because he knows Sulu will survive. Personally I think that Sulu is more powerful than Worf, even though Worf is way more likely to look like the hero, because no one gets stranded, beat up or mindbroken as much as Sulu does (though I think Chekov might hold the record for getting tortured the most, I seem to remember him screaming more than Sulu). >>81248149Fair point. I think that Chekov starts in T6 (basically just named crewman) and advances to T5 (hardened crewmen). Yeoman Rand is T6 and Uhura is T5. Uhura doesn't like being on the away team but she's surprisingly effective and might have better combat mods than Chekov.
>>81248502>Fair point. I think that Chekov starts in T6 (basically just named crewman) and advances to T5 (hardened crewmen). Yeoman Rand is T6 and Uhura is T5. Uhura doesn't like being on the away team but she's surprisingly effective and might have better combat mods than Chekov.Uhura probably isn't as good in combat as chekov since she's almost never shown in combat. but as the 5th movie points out she's OP in creative quick thinking and laying traps
>>81245269He went to the Tailor NPC at Earth Spacedock and picked out the DS9 style uniforms for his crew, like any captain would.
>>81248082IN FAIRNESS, basically every warp-capable ship is capable of time travel (how good it is at it is another story). They just tend to not do it because they could fuck up everything.
>>81249660I also suspect that the Federation supressed the HELL out of that information as well, plus it's not exactly an easy maneouver to do, at this point Sulu is the only person to have ever managed it on screen.
>>81248082I too never considered this. Holy heck.
>>81248082>>When you realise that the Klingon ship the TOS crew use to travel back in time in ST4 belonged to Doc Brown.GREAT SCOTT!!!
>>81245269Presumably the same reason starship captains and station captains had completeley different uniforms in the 60s.Though, that said, the best explanation I've heard is that the grey uniforms, originally designed for the front lines and the dominion war, are still in use by ships that often see combat, whereas the colorful, easy to identify uniforms are used more for general and peacrful personelle.
>>81248082Explain this to me like I'm retarded
>>81250366The actor who played Kruge is the same one who played Doc Brown. Both characters owned vehicles capable of time travel.
>>81249710>I also suspect that the Federation supressed the HELL out of that information as wellDid they? Picard's crew seemed to just offhand know they could use time travel to follow the Borg in FC
>>81250664In FC they just went through the vortex the Borg opened and then recreated what the Borg did to get back. No slingshot.
>>81250664They followed the Borg by chroniton particle wake technobabble left by the sphere. I'm talking about the specific method of time travel that literally anybody with a decent warp drive and robust dilithium chamber can do just by flying around a sun.
>>81250530One of the best exchanges is in that scene>Let the Vulcan go as well>No>Why not?>Because you wish it!
>>81249660While it opened a lot of writing options, I hate that time travel is a thing in the setting - for meta reasons and as well as in universe.
>>81251501There are more good time travel episodes than bad so I don't.
Re-watching Schisms, and Riker has a faucet in his room, of course that makes sense but my autism has taken full effect. Do the faucets have plumbing, or mono-task replicators for water?
>>81250688Kruge is a great character. Personally I think his best moment is when we cut back to him not long after the Enterprise self-destructs. He's sitting with his head in his hands staring at the floor, grappling with the fact that he fell for a Human deception that resulted in his loyal crew dying utterly honorless deaths.
>>81235507Is that Karl Urban?
>>81252533We see them a decent amount in Voyager too. I always assumed it was some sort of replicator system.
>>81252533They also have bathtubs (Troy was in one in the devolution episode)
>>81240356Anon they threw that shit out the window the day Rodddenberry died
>>81252963Yeah but I'm assuming as a luxury thing. Also, it's bullshit that Will 'I lay pipe at warp-speed' Riker only has 1 pillow on his bed.
I miss dat 90's physiognomy every day.
>>81253690Mfw I learned Roddenberry came up with those rules to retroactively fuck over a guy he had previously collaborated with
>>81255556>no more 90s short female haircuts Kate, we have to go back
>>81255628Well you gotta tell us what that was about.
>>81256458Not him but I remember reading something about how the rules originally got made to retcon out some designs that the guy who did the TOS tech manual had created.
>>81257239Saladin and Federation classes?
>>81257381I think so.
>>81257239Yeah it was an attempt to stop the Technical Manual being official stuff because of reasons, almost certainly money related.Which is amusing because they straight up used pages from it, in particular the single nacelle design, for screen filler stuff in TMP/WoK.
>>81252616I don't think honor was a part of it as that wasn't really established Klingon lore yet (plus they were originally going to be Romulans). Kruge isn't some great noble warrior, he's basically just a space pirate and acts like one (kills his gunner for blowing up a ship instead of disabling it since now he didnt have hostages as leverage, does the "kill a hostage to show we're serious" later, is the commander of a small, fairly weak ship that is more for raiding, etc). His expression in that scene is more frustration that Kirk had outplayed him.Funnily it was going to be Edward James Olmos who would play Kruge but he was too short, while Lloyd was over 6 ft so he towered over Shatner and looked imposing.
>>81258019Also to add to the pirate theme, his disruptor pistol looks like a sci-fi version of an old flintlock
>>81258042>>81258019I mean you're right that he is a pirate, but he's also the prototype for the honor and glory obsessed klingons TNG were famous for. It's why he chose to fight Kirk to the death on the exploding planet, because how could you ask for a more glorious death than that?
>>81258019You’re probably right for how he was conceived. But I prefer to look back at him through the lens of what we now have about Klingons, plus stuff that would be established in Trek VI. Besides, I think he’s more complicated than just a pirate - his motivation for getting Genesis wasn’t merely power (though that was part of it), but also genuine fear for what a Federation armed with a Genesis torpedo could do to the Empire even IF the Federation only used it as intended and not as a direct weapon.> KRUGE: So? Speak!>TORG: Great power ...to control, ...dominate.>KRUGE: Speak.>MATLZ: Impressive. ...They can make planets.>KRUGE: Oh yes, ...new cities, homes in the country, ...your woman at your side, children playing at your feet. And overhead, fluttering in the breeze, the flag of the Federation. Charming.
>>81258204Oh, plus, a bit that sticks with me in a scene they roughly mirrors a similar scene in Wrath of Khan but also clearly contrasts Kruge’s character with Khan’s:>KRUGE: There are two more prisoners, Admiral. Do you want them killed too? ...Surrender your vessel!>KIRK: All right. All right, damn you! ...All right! ...Give me a minute to inform my crew.>KRUGE: I give two minutes for you, and your gallant crew
>>81258204>>81258241I honestly felt Kruge was one of the best written Trek villains and even above Khan, and as much as I loved Lloyd's portrayal I feel the only reason he's not as well remembered as Khan is because he wasn't Kor or Kang.
I forgot to mention this earlier when I got my prototype dreadnought, but I might as well tell you guys now.It doesn't have any alternate parts to it, even it's bridge was a bog standard one (which I switched to the TOS conny bridge variant).Imagine, a lockbox grand price ship from several years ago and even back then Cryptic couldn't put in the little bit of extra work.
>>81259096Compare that to the concept art and notice the different types of nacella they could have made as alternatives for this thing, but nope.
>>81259096>>81259105The value in the TOS dreadnoughts has always been in their superior stats and the consoles they come with, especially in the case of the Atlas. I agree they should have added more variation to the appearance, but whales sadly don't care about that enough to warrant it being included except in legendary bundles.
STO related, I've been enjoying the episodes (lots of good free content). Ive played enough that I feel justified In dropping some money into it.What's the best use of say 50$ in STO?
>>81257491Which is as good a reason to ignore 'the rules' as any, not that I needed one
>>81259858Energy credit limiter remover, account bank unlock.With the remaining Zen you couldn't really afford anything other than maybe some costumes and a lower tier ship, what with average ships now costing 60 dollaridoos and ship packs costing even more.All in all, you gotta ask yourself how you want to play the game from here on out.Do you want to just buy something that looks nice and role play as some sorta specific sorta character in the game, or do you want to go the way of the whale and start building yourself the killiest murderboat money can buy so you can solo PvE content?Also, if you choose to pick some certain ship and cosplay with it, you might have to drop some large sums of money to get it.Just today at ESD I witnessed a convo where we discovered that a Crossfield class ship costs over 100 dollars, since it's a lock box ship that is sold at exchange for some 1,200,000,000 energy credit price and in order to get that amount of EC you would have to sell over 100 lock box keys which cost about 100 zen each, which is one dollar per key.
>>81251501Same here. As much as I love episodes like the Flack back to 2024 or All Good Things, or even Yesterday's Enterprise... The wider implications are bonkers and kinda fug with everything. Like, It's been a plot point since TOS, Time Travel happened a lot back then, and TNG and the rest just kept up the same pattern. But still...
>>81260162Was mentioned be as a recap-After TOS was off the air a guy named Franz Joseph sent some stuff to Gene who then blessed his project and it got published as the Star Trek Technical Manual. It was really successful and oops now Gene lost some creative control over his IP , so his rules were largely a way to shit on Franz's designs in the manual. At least it's reported as such, not sure if it's documented.
>>81260162Franz Joseph was an aerospace engineer for 30 years, working with Convair and General Dynamics. After he was pushed into an early retirement, he became interested in Star Trek by way of his daughter. After chatting with other fans at university meetings in the early 70s, he reached out to Roddenberry and, with permission, started work on Enterprise blueprints and the Star Fleet Technical Manual. This was roughly when TAS started airing. Roddenberry and other Trek staff love them, a copy of the blueprints get sent to the Smithsonian, and both of them get officially published with the Technical Manual reaching #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.At the same time as Joseph's work was being widely renowned, Roddenberry was struggling to find work for himself after Star Trek. Genesis II wasn't picked up, Gene was working on a rework of it called Planet Earth and brought Joseph in as a consultant; it too wasn't picked up and Gene returns to Trek concepts. Paramount rejected multiple of Roddenberry's pitches. Paramount is important since they still had the rights, and thus Joseph needed their permission for publication. Roddenberry noticed this and got insecure that Paramount was getting more acknowledgement than he was in those books, mandated by Paramount of course but he still contacted Joseph to complain about it. Phase II is proposed at this time, and Roddenberry's pilot for it gets altered frequently by the studio before Phase II itself. The pilot is reworked to become The Motion Picture.At that point Roddenberry's successive failures build up his insecurities, hating that Trek is being taken away from him. As his last gasp, he makes TMP into his truest vision, disregarding the contributions of everyone else, to the point of coming up with a bunch of dumb rules to invalidate work that didn't fit with TMP. One of the victims was Joseph's books.
>>81260139YeahTime travel is too easy and too powerful to not totally dominate the setting. Like, MAYBE, you could argue that the major alpha/beta quadrant powers treat it as a nuclear mutually assured destruction scenario and it's kind of like a cold war - but we know the Borg at least are, among any number of the hundreds of warp capable civilizations out there. All of whom have access to a 'delete this faction' button , it's too much
I'd forgotten how good the Giacchino sound track us.
>>81258019>kills his gunner for blowing up a ship instead of disabling it since now he didnt have hostages as leverageSee I think he did it because his mission was supposed to be top-secret, and now because of his gunner it means the Klingon Empire has just committed an act of war against the Federation while the 2 sides are currently in a cold war.
>>81258301I think he's not remembered because he's from the movie that's sandwiched in-between 2 of the best ST movies. Search for Spock is closest to the original series in terms of tone and pacing, and that's kinda to its detriment because there's shit like how it peaks way too early. The crew stealing the Enterprise is largely considered one of the greatest moments of the entire franchise... and then there's still an hour to go.
>>81261301Mix of that, plus his gunner calling it a "lucky" shot in a tone that suggests that it might have been less "lucky" and more "the gunner just didn't care enough to be careful".
>>81261301Interestingly, Ambassador Pompous Ass didn't try to pull the "we're not responsible for the actions of a renegade" angle and not only claimed responsibility for Kruge's actions, but claimed they were entirely justified due to the Genesis weapon obviously being used to create a secret Starfleet base to stage an invasion of the Klingon Empire and therefore it was merely a preemptive strike. The Federation was willing to just toss Kirk under the bus to keep open the possibility of peace, obviously not helped by him stealing the Enterprise.
>>81260096>average ships now costing 60 dollaridoosWhat? They still look like $30 to me.
>>81261782Well I'll be, so they are.I could have sworn a Tier 6 ship cost 6000 zen.
>>81261869The standalone Legendary’s are often sold at an initial sale of 60$/€/£. Might be what you’re thinking of.
>>81260096I'm so new that all the end game stuff is still incomprehensible to me. I see a zillion ships for sale and the differences, if any, don't seem obvious. I guess my focus would be quality of life stuff. Would bumping up to 100$ make a big difference?
>>81261349>The crew stealing the Enterprise is largely considered one of the greatest moments of the entire franchiseYou mean, the bit where they have to blow up the Enterprise, right?
>>81263319If you're not even sure what they differences are between the things you're considering buying you shouldn't be buying anything yet. The main differences between ships are weapon layouts, speed, turn rate, bridge officer layouts, hangar bays, whether the ship can equip dual cannons or not, and starship trait.When it comes to quality of life stuff what the previous anon said is right: EC cap remover and account bank unlock (assuming you will ever play an alt character) are really the only must haves. Everything else only really becomes useful as your collection of ships grows.
>>81263412No that's one if the saddest moments, enough so that Hene actually tried to sabotage the film by leaking the script in a "how dare they destroy my ship!" move, but all it did was build hype for the movie
>>81263319What this guy said >>81263465Play the game for now and once you get to the end of story content and know a bit better how things in the game work (you can ask about game mechanics from us if you aren't certain on things) and then and only then make the decision of what to buy or wether to buy anything at all.
>>81260868>>81260852I know he's the father of Star Trek and all but goddamn is Gene just a petty asshole whenever it's possible.
>>81258204The thing is even if the Genesis Device worked exactly as intended and wasn't sabotaged....it destroyed an entire nebula
>>81263788I know people like to blame drugs, but the 70s absolutely broke his mental self-worth. Everyone called him the Star Trek guy even though he specialized in westerns and detective stories before Star Trek, so all of his post-Star Trek projects failed. Then when he tied his self-worth to Star Trek everyone kept fucking around with it. Crazy shit.
>>81264032>I know people like to blame drugsNo that came later, drugs and not being able to have creative control over the movies past the first one is the reason he was such an asshole when he ran TNG. The 70s was really just his failures.
>>81261597>obviously not helped by him stealing the Enterprise.And then he blew it up, only a couple weeks after blowing up the Reliant. If I was Starfleet command I'd be pissed too.
>>81263788Gene was a colossal money grubbing asshole who couldn't keep it in his pants, but he was personally affable and knew how to manipulate a narrative so it's not really until the late 90s/early 00s that people started realizing his detractors weren't people with an ax to grind but rather people with legit grievances over how they were treated.
>>81264277Yeah I heard he was a really nice guy as long as he was off-set, in contrast to his wife who I've never heard a bad thing about Majel outside of the fact that Lwaxana is insufferable, but that isn't her fault.
>>81264296More like he was a really nice guy as long as money, fame, and control weren't involved. This is the guy who publicly praised Undiscovered Country and Nicholas Meyer before immediately filing a lawsuit against him over the film.
>>81264277>and knew how to manipulate a narrativeBoy did he ever. Gene had a habit for if not taking credit for everything, at the very least downplaying the contributions of everyone else. Another thing Gene used to do wasn't so much 'claim' authorship, but more he'd let other people accidentally attribute that authorship to him and simply fail to correct them. For example, the myth surrounding the addition of Worf to the cast. After the character was accepted warmly by the fans, Roddenberry allowed them to believe that Worf was his idea, without correcting them about the truth. When the factual evidence later came out, it showed that it was Bob Justman who conceived the character, and he and Rick Berman who pushed for Worf's addition to the cast. Roddenberry was against it all the way.Aside from the rewrites and the pushing his way into royalties that didn't belong to him, this is the kind of thing that went on, and with each passing generation the myth grew until it was believed unquestionably.
>>81264416But anon, the credits say "Created By Gene Roddenberry" so that must mean that Gene was responsible for literally everything about the show from the writing to the designs to restocking toilet paper in the bathrooms. :^)
>>81264180Oh no, he blew up a ship that was being decommissioned anyway.
>>81264277It also suited the studio to keep his reputation 'clean' as long as possible, because of all that shit about his visionary vision they were relying on for hype.Star Trek was supposed to be this good pure thing that was a force for good and the reality of Roddenberry tainted that.>>81264447>:^)Jokes aside it is a very, very, very longstanding problem of over-attribution of credit for a creation to a single person.
>>81252616>>81258301Can you imagine, if Kruge had somehow survived the events of III? His wrath and need for vengeance on Kirk would have been legendary, eclipsing that of even the Dahar Masters. And given that Kruge had killed Kirk's son, he would have reciprocated.You could make an opera or three out of that.
Just saw the newest episode of Lower Decks.Holy shit this show is so comfy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VV3CsR159QQ&ab_channel=Setozy
>>81241679Plus I imagine like irl a lot of their duties are administrative
>>81265244You think its worth 10 bucks to binge the new shows or should I find a place to torrent
>>81265387You can also find it on streaming sites if you're so inclined.>>81264447>>81264861>Gene devotes an entire chapter in his memoirs to his excellent selection of toilet paper for the studio restrooms and how everyone agreed it was the best ass wiping experience in their lives
>>81265387I recommend streaming sites.
>>81265387Most of the older shows are on Prime which most people have begrudgingly
>>81264801Decommissioning the Constitution-class was retarded to begin with. Ignoring that the Enterprise had been retrofitted in TMP, it was barely weaker than the brand new Excelsior-class and oh yeah, it's the fucking FLAGSHIP of the goddamn Federation. It got decomissioned purely for out of universe reasons, so that there's an obstacle for the heroes to overcome in getting to the Genesis planet.
>>81265117Kruge is fascinating because he's a cartoonishly evil character, but if you pay attention he's actuallay not. Whenever he's being cartoonishly evil, it's a mask he's wearing for the sake of his enemies and in fact extremely intelligent and dangerous.
>>81265244Mind-numbing and pointless. Like the last five times I've tried to give it a shot based on LD posters with YouTube clips. I don't laugh, I'm not engaged, the dialogue is lost in inane "UHM" and "LIKE" isms. It is not a good show. It is a worse Trek show.
>>81265744Or rather, what I mean is he makes himself seem like just an over the top villain so that people underestimate just how smart he actually is.
>>81265744>>81265771He's a theatrical villain. He's a reasonably complex character, performed with all the dramatic flair of a stage actor bellowing loud enough to be heard in the nosebleeds. Which is exactly how Klingons should be.
>>81265244>comfyThis is what Star Trek needs to be above all else. It's one of the things the franchise does most differently from other sci-fi media. Most of the planets are habitable and can be explored without EV suits, most people have good intentions and are trying to get along. Even the ships look more like places you'd actually want to live in as you're cruising through space. Compare the cushioning and even lighting you see on most Starfleet ships to vessels in Star Wars or The Expanse or Battlestar Galactica.I think that's what irked me most about STD and Picard. They didn't look like they ever wanted to be quaint, comfortable, episodic adventures. They just wanted to be general sci-fi action garbage.
>>81265800He wants his enemies to think he's stupid evil when in reality he's just evil. The Grissom being destroyed was a giant misstep for him because he wanted to capture and torture the crew for information on Genesis. If he just wanted to blow the ship up he'd be closer to Darth Malek in Kotor.
>>81265768That wasn't my experience. I enjoyed it quite a lot.
Keep in mind that Kruge is working with fucking nothing and he knows it. He's in command of a Bird of Prey, a dinky little raiding ship that has about 20 crew members at max, a complement of torpedos, 2 disruptor cannons, and a cloaking device. In a straight up fight the Enterprise at full operating capacity could destroy it in about 5 seconds flat, but because Kirk offers the chance to surrender, Kruge instantly figures out that the Enterprise is crippled because it has no need to demand surrender, otherwise it could just blow him out of the sky. Sure he basically got as far as he did through sheer luck but both did he work with what he had.
>>81265907He's the Anti-Kirk: confidence in his crew (aside from that gunner), confidence in his ship, thinks on his feet, he's just evil and ruthless.
>>81265814>TheurgyYeah, that's some comfy alright.
>>81265592>it's the fucking FLAGSHIP of the goddamn FederationThe D certainly was, but I can't recall any of the other Enterprises ever being described as such.
>>81264382...wasn't he dead by that point?
>>81265814fucking hate the warehouse bridge on the Discovery. >>81265244Not my fav episode of the season but the best ending. Unlike the dinner eating scene in discovery this felt earned
>>81266354Not the one you're replying to but for me so far it's been 2>5>3>4>1
>on some planet, somewhere there exists a giant version of Spock with an equally giant human ubermench working to cure a plant people diseaseWhat other things from TAS being canon make for bizzare setting fodder?
so how come they killed jadzia at the end of s6? seems an odd choice only to bring the character of dax back in a new, younger host(Missed opportunity for it not to be a man desu)so what was the petty reasoning? director got tired of fucking jadzia's actress? She left cause exec fucker? got a better paying position?
>>81266451DS9 had enough of a side cast that the main cast was getting less focus. Farrell wanted to work on other stuff when she wasn't needed for a major role in season 7. Rick Berman personally fired her instead.
>>81266442Let's be honest, you just wanted someone to post this.
>>81266248He died two months before the film was released, but viewed the near final print a few days before he died. He also had a fight with Meyer earlier about the content of the film.
>>81266557They killed BigSpock offscreen? I was expecting a JJ Abrams movie.
>>81266587Weird. I thought he died the same year Final Frontier came out. I know he had a bad stroke in the early 80's.
>>81265814>The ExpanseThis might be a poor comparison. The Expanse is based around early, heavily corpo expansion and exploration, well before we've really hammered out enough of the tech an infrastructure to impliment comfort on a similar level as function. Kinda like an old jalopy vs the Bel Aire or bireme vs the sloop. Otherwise, you're spot on. SW and BSG both have pipes and shit for no real reason than to HAVE pipes and shit.
>>81263319>I'm so new that all the end game stuff is still incomprehensible to me. I see a zillion ships for sale and the differences, if any, don't seem obvious.Be sure to check the STO wiki, Ships and Equipment can have a bunch of easily missed Caveats like certain Hanger Pets can only be equipped to certain Carriers, while some Hanger Pets can be equipped to ANY Carrier but require having unlocked the one they come with first.>I guess my focus would be quality of life stuff. Would bumping up to 100$ make a big difference?Right now yes, since there's a promo going on that gives PC players 20% IF YOU GET IT THROUGH Arc's Site!Since $100 USD usually gives you a bonus of 1000 Zen, you end up with 13000 Zen, enough extra for Zen Store ship.Still, that's going to go on until the 22nd.>>81263465>If you're not even sure what they differences are between the things you're considering buying you shouldn't be buying anything yet. The main differences between ships are weapon layouts, speed, turn rate, bridge officer layouts, hangar bays, whether the ship can equip dual cannons or not, and starship trait.Again, wiki:https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>>81264801>Oh no, he blew up a ship that was being decommissioned anyway.WE NEED THAT SALVAGE DAMN IT!>>81265363>Plus I imagine like irl a lot of their duties are administrativeSomething I dislike about TNG onward Uniform color coding, "Command" is Red, but "Command" is an entire track along with "Science/Medical" (Blue) and "Operations/Engineering" (Gold)...If it was "being an administrator" then it shouldn't have it's own entire Uniform, right?
>>81265896That's good for you, but I still maintain the lack of quality is grossly conspicuous and I refuse to chalk it up to characters being "quirky." It perpetuates a lack of emphasis on writing calibre, characterization, and narrative intellectual honesty, all benchmarks of the franchise.
>>81266669I'm not arguing with the logic of The Expanse setting, just saying it doesn't convey the comfort that so far only Trek has really delivered. I like both aesthetics and themes on their own merits.
>>81266751I disagree. The writing - while at times uneven - has often displayed remarkable self-awareness and honesty. The 'umms' and 'likes' you complained about weren't even present in the clip you were replying to.
>>81266703>Something I dislike about TNG onward Uniform color coding, "Command" is Red, but "Command" is an entire track along with "Science/Medical" (Blue) and "Operations/Engineering" (Gold)...>If it was "being an administrator" then it shouldn't have it's own entire Uniform, right?I imagine it being an evolution of IRL Naval positions that are broadly divided up into Unrestricted Line Officer (can be assigned direct command over anything), Restricted Line Officer (can be assigned direct command over individual divisions or land facilities but not ships), and Staff Officer (cannot be assigned direct command over anything but their own division). Obviously not a direct 1:1 comparison, both due to Star Trek being fictional and taking place hundreds of years in the future, but still the same general idea.
>>81266669BSG's aesthetics crib primarily from submarines and real world naval vessels. They look like that because the Galactica is supposed to be a purely military vessel where all considerations being given over to functionality. >>81266703Command is administrative and supervisory positions, alongside piloting for some reason, means you need people who are actually trained to deal with matters of bureaucracy. Worf is a good example. On DS9 he's responsible for coordinating all Starfleet activity within the sector, handled intelligence matters, was the liaison for the the Klingon fleet, and first officer of the Defiant, which is massively more broad than his duties on the Ent-D. Command track exists so the other tracks can enjoy a much more narrow focus.
>>81266690I wonder what Kurtzman thinks of Berman
>>81266437Pretty much exactly this>>81266965Not quite related but I really dislike how science and medical share a color. If there's one thing I'd compliment STD for it's making the doctors wear white.
>>81267083Security should also be distinguished from Ops/Engineering. Maybe by wearing green instead of yellow.
>>81266982>Command is administrative and supervisory positions, alongside piloting for some reason, means you need people who are actually trained to deal with matters of bureaucracy.>Command track exists so the other tracks can enjoy a much more narrow focus.Yeah, but does it warrant it's own uniform?Seems like it'd be a specialty that only need some kind of signifying mark like a Pip or a Badge...And what is "Operations" whole deal then?>>81267083>Not quite related but I really dislike how science and medical share a color. If there's one thing I'd compliment STD for it's making the doctors wear white.Lower Decks gives them White Shoes, but then again we haven't seen any NON-Medical Science officers in LD...
Command: Tell the ship to do a thing.Operations/Engineer: Make sure the ship can still do its things.Science: Do things of your own while on the ship.
>>81265592Wut. It was being decommissioned because the battle damage was too much to be worth fixing.
>>81267182Ops actually does the thing; engineering makes sure all the things needed to do the thing have all their things in working order.
>>81267167>but then again we haven't seen any NON-Medical Science officers in LDFeels like they dropped that distinction in the concept phase. Because you're right, we've yet to see any black-booted blue shirts.
>>81266856GOTCHA. My mistake.
>>81265244I did the like the DS9 bit that was cute
>>81267167The entire notion of "tracks" with their own color is simply an aesthetic choice. In the real world everyone wears the same damn uniform outside of specialty garments for their job, and even Trek had everyone in the same uniforms for five films and 2 tv shows with only slight changes in accent colors without issue. And yes, Command would be its own track because there is a lot work within the track that simply doesn't fit with the other tracks, which is why I used Worf as an example because his Command responsibilities are of a completely different nature and focus compared to his Ops duties.
>>81266885This is exactly why it does not work as a Trek show.>self-awarenessThe characters being self-aware retracts from the characters thamselves and BEING themselves. There's a reason for the "crew never fights themselves" rule (aside from Gene's insistent utopianism), is it distracts from the story. Mysteries and morality plays are ST's greatest draws and strengths, having characters "finding themselves" distracts from these integral qualities. Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer, and the bulk of their crew know who they are, as adults and as people, and the few exceptions are rooted in a larger conceptual dialogue. Geordi doesn't get stuck with a Romulan in a cave to find his confidence or realize who his friends are - it's because the technologically gifted (and dependant) character is being challenged by circumstances of helplessness and crude survival. His usual optimism is challenged by the presence of a would-be enemy and lack of situational control. >honestyIt is honest in that it's a cartoon. Intellectual honesty is when a creator isn't lying to the audience about what's being presented or the resolution of those circumstances. It can be difficult , but the effort usually suffices for the end product. Everything in this clip could be transplanted into another series involving 20-somethings and a couple bars. They could be coworkers at Mattress Discounters. It wouldn't matter. The situation is entrely social, but social situations are what drive nearly every other show. Uhms and likes might be a poor example, but the dialogue is still far too loose and colloquial to be taken seriously.
>>81267841I'd contend that on the other hand, we have characters like Worf, Data, Garak, and Seven of Nine whose character arcs and stories tend to involve finding themselves or realizing or choosing who their friends are. Like, how many times do we see Data struggling with emotion and what it means to be a real boy? How many times did we see Worf's Federation upbringing and idealized version of being Klingon clash with the realities of being in Starfleet and the realities of who the Klingons are versus who they say they are? I think Odo's kind of got shades of this too - his journey from being an aloof outsider yearning to know more about his kind, finding out who they are, and then choosing what kind of man he wants to be. You can't really tell me that Worf and Odo's identities aren't challenged when they find out how ugly their respective people can be.With Garak it's less about him finding himself and us finding him. What's true? What's a lie? How much of what we see is the 'real' Garak and not what he's constructed as a facade? And I don't think I have to explain with Seven of Nine.
>>81237834>, none of the goodguys in Star Trek ever insist that religion is primitiveehhhh "Who Watches the Watchers" has a pretty anti-religious undercurrent. The issue isn't *just* that Picard has been mistaken for a god and accidentally violated the Prime Directive, the crew have several lines lamenting the fact that the primitive Vulcans had grown beyond religion at this point, and are now massively backsliding, iirc.
>>81267841>The characters being self-aware retracts from the characters thamselves and BEING themselves. I think you mean 'detracts' but I disagree. I think it's managing to find its footing even with that self-awareness, with the self-awareness itself becoming part of the who the characters are. Boimler noticing sonic showers seem to create steam and Mariner pointing out that phaser rifles basically just seem to be "phasers that require two hands" doesn't keep the characters from having their own personalities or pursuing their own ambitions. The conflicts being sillier don't take away from the ways they're solved, which have been in typical Star Trek fashion - especially this season.>There's a reason for the "crew never fights themselves" rule (aside from Gene's insistent utopianism)That's not really something you want to cite since it's a rule that basically no Trek show has ever been able to follow consistently, to the point where it was eventually just dropped. DS9 and VOY in particular had very glaring interpersonal conflicts.
>>81268074DS9 writers also specifically set out not to follow that rule because of how much they despised it while working on TNG.
Why do some people jerk off Q so hard on other fandoms?
>>81267246>Feels like they dropped that distinction in the concept phase. Because you're right, we've yet to see any black-booted blue shirts.Might just be that the Cerritos doesn't really require more Science staff than their Medical compliment, Tendi seems to do general science stuff despite specializing in Medicine.But yeah, why you make the defining feature of your MEDICAL staff the Boots is beyond me...>>81267746>The entire notion of "tracks" with their own color is simply an aesthetic choice. In the real world everyone wears the same damn uniform outside of specialty garments for their job, and even Trek had everyone in the same uniforms for five films and 2 tv shows with only slight changes in accent colors without issue.Which is fine, except:>And yes, Command would be its own track because there is a lot work within the track that simply doesn't fit with the other tracks, which is why I used Worf as an example because his Command responsibilities are of a completely different nature and focus compared to his Ops duties.HOW are his Ops duties different?Yes, he's doing far more upper level management task, but wouldn't that fall under the Hierarchy of Rank rather than Departmental Function?
>>81240181Well, if you're okay with including stuff from Picard, then the Cyber-Cthulhus are waiting out there in the deep to genocide anyone who's being mean to sapient robots. They might reactivate a Doomsday Machine on principle if it was provably sapient, and also not care since they seem to be obscenely dangerous themselves.
>>81268056The line they take is specifically against ignorance and fear. The proto-Vulcans formed their beliefs about The Picard because they simply did not know anything, and were afraid of what they did not know, meaning they were making things up as they went along. Whether that describes all religions probably depends on your position on religion in general, but there were many other episodes where spiritual and religious beliefs were accepted as cultural expression, provided those believes didn't result in the rejection of knowledge and rationality.People forget that the Islamic world was the centre of scientific progression during the middle ages, and only ended when it sparked the various European Renaissances that coincided with European colonization of the New World and all the new resource exploitation that followed, or that even during the middle ages it was the monasteries and churches that preserved and furthered knowledge and science. Of course there was always a tug of war between the more "science is the discovery of God/Allah's creation" and "science is blasphemy against the holy teachings" factions, but belief in the sciences still persisted among religious populations.
>>81266451Her actress wanted more money.
>>81267066He probably doesn't understand what specifically Berman did to make us hate him
>>81268195As Chief Tactical Officer Worf was responsible for the weapons systems and security. In general, the tracks break down once you examine them closely. Why are the maintenance crews, engineers, security guards, and weapons operators in the same track? Why isn't engineering subdivided? Why aren't the department heads heavily administrative positions?But specific to Worf's tasks on DS9, it's a function of department (how exactly would coordinating Starfleet activities fall under Ops or Science) rather than rank - which would be something like creating a duty roster.
>>81266451iirc, Terry Farrell was getting more opportunities for starring roles, and she had conflicts with some of the showrunners, both in terms of money and how they treated the female staff. She asked to be moved from a regular to a recurring role, since the cast was already large and she was happy being more of a supporting character. Instead they fired her, then claimed she quit to work on other shows.
>>81268471Yes BUTPunk Ezri a cuteShame her solo episode was so meh
Watching ENT for the first time and in S2 was it critical to the plot that Hoshi lost her shirt and was topless using her hands as a bra?Now if it was T'pol...
>>81268411>In general, the tracks break down once you examine them closely. Why are the maintenance crews, engineers, security guards, and weapons operators in the same track? Why isn't engineering subdivided? Why aren't the department heads heavily administrative positions?Exactly!
they were really letting loose in the end of season DSP season 6 huhtiny runabout, Worf implying to have OOPsed millions of lives to save his waifu, section 31 holo 'torture', now the Sisko talking into the camera about whacking the Romulan senator (le sekret spy faction got fooled easy enough). also I isolated one of my least favorite things about DS9. I'm not a cinema guy so I don't know the technical details but they seemed to use some weird "warm/fuzzy" cameras and lighting, It makes it seem stuffy and dank. Maybe it was intentional to portray the feeling of the cardassian station but everything else suffers for it,
>>81266669> in an alternate timeline the writers/team behind The Expanse are huge Trekkies that paramount hired to create Discoveryi cri
>>81268924>Forgetting about Take Me Out To The Holosuite
>>81267141I agree with this, probably even more than the medical/science one actually>>81267167White shoes is a fantastic way to have that distinction while keeping the uniforms closer together actually. >>81268165All the hype for season 2 of Picard seems entirely based on the fact that Q shows up and I dont get it.
>>81269034not there yet I think, I just started the vic fontaine episode
>>81268074>>81268158I'll never forgive Janeway for chewing out Ransom. His ship was basically a glorified runabout with none of the deep space capabilities and resources (or plot armor) of Voyager.
>>81269274>White shoes is a fantastic way to have that distinction while keeping the uniforms closer together actually.From a character design standpoint, maybe, but for At-a-Glance recognition its terrible.Think about it, Ship's getting blown to hell, you're trying to hold your intestines in, and the Blue Shirt you crawl up to goes "Sorry man, I'm an Anomalous Materials Researcher!"Same with Broimler and Mariner's "Command Track," they're Ensigns not in charge of anything, mostly working on Operations stuff...Hell, Mariner switches to a Gold Shirt when her Mom ranks her up!
>>81269893>Think about it, Ship's getting blown to hell, you're trying to hold your intestines in, and the Blue Shirt you crawl up to goes "Sorry man, I'm an Anomalous Materials Researcher!"Funny how real life navies literally never have this problem. Almost like ships have standing orders for what to do in emergency situations and that personnel typically get at minimum basic first aid training to try and keep people alive until the specialists get there. Like maybe you might recognize the medial personnel from the actual medical kit they carry around to treat people.
>>81269941that is literally a well known historical problem that major navies have had
>>81269970If it's so well known then why does no major navy "solve" this problem? It's not like they're unable to, aircraft carriers have colour coded flight deck personnel because visibility and nonverbal communication are vital, so why don't real navies have everyone colour coded by job?
>>81269970>that is literally a well known historical problem that major navies have hadYeah, look at the deck crew of an Aircraft Carrier
>>81269893>>81270008Honestly the color codes just make Starfleet look kind of retarded. It's not like any of the other major powers do it. I think at most Romulans distinguish only between the military and the Tal Shiar.
>>81266703Thanks I got the 13000, gonna get the EC unlock and the account bank and just play for a whileAlso asking questions in ESD and some whales just gave me a bunch of shit lol
>>81268411the way I see it:- red, you are on the generalist manager fast-track, you could become a captain or a station boss, but more likely will end up in HR, legal, an inspector, project leader, etc. Generally knowledgeable about a wide range of topics, and has lots of emphasis on leadership, diplomacy, and soft skills- yellow, specialist in something related to ships or station management, like engineering, security, tactical, ops. Generally won't leave their field, though there are some exception- blue, specialists in stuff not related to ships or facilities (some exceptions for highly experimental stuff), often on board ships for a specific mission rather than permanent (do scans on this star, hitch a ride to that world, etc)
KURTZMAN!!really have no ideas don't they? Picard s2 is Q turning that timeline into a Not Mirror Universe. So the crew can travel in time to the early 21st century undo the change.
>>81266451She thought the show Becker was going to take off. Also possible she was becoming aware of the Star Trek curse where you never see any of these people in anything again. Even Patrick Stewart said he might have turned down the Picard role if he knew it was going to consume so much of his life/career. They should have killed her off just before the Worf romance started really heating up. Seeing those two just made me mad. Like you had this psycho jealous deadbeat dad stomping around and this weird flirty art ho manic pixie talking about marrying and having a baby and everyone's acting like it's not only healthy but it's inspirational. And as a plus we could have seen more Ezri being adorbs.
>>81271511>They should have killed her off just before the Worf romance started really heating up. Seeing those two just made me mad. Like you had this psycho jealous deadbeat dad stomping around and this weird flirty art ho manic pixie talking about marrying and having a baby and everyone's acting like it's not only healthy but it's inspirational.personally i felt insulted that they waited so long to kill either of them off. Like do you remember how many fucking death flags they raised, "i'll marry you when we get back" and all that with how many times they did something similar? hell they had the decency to kill off dukat's daughter after the whole, "i'll come back for you" thing garek did
>>81265768> It is a worse Trek show.It's still better than STD and SDP.
>>81270879Still seems arbitrary, for instance commanding the ship itself could conceivably fall under the purview of security. Starfleet follows a military structure and the vessels themselves are most closely analogous to modern warships even if the Federation doesn't like to call them that. The reason Starfleet vessels are used to ferry dignitaries instead of luxury liners is because most are equipped with advanced defensive capabilities. You definitely don't want a strict diplomat in charge during a hostile encounter.
>>81261066go look at the gane Achron, that dealt with time travel war in an RTS format, successive waves of temporal edits continually wipe out previous histories as the game moves forward. Apply that idea to trek and you can imagine scenarios where the editing war is ridiculously gruesome, "Temporal MAD", but the end result is some zero sum outcome we see in the films and shows.
>>81271889Captaining a ship is, by the nature of the job, a position that requires a lot of leadership and soft skills. It doesn't matter how good you can pew pew or do the double fisted hammer blow, if you can't manage a crew properly you'll never be a good captain. Also in the real world the overwhelmingly vast majority of dignitaries do not use military vessels for transport and it's kind of weird that Starfleet doesn't have a dedicated diplomatic courier/transport service.
>>81260868Wow. Thanks for the thorough rundown friend. Sad to hear Gene really let it all get to him that hard.
>>81273138Earth isnt comparable to deep space. You're talking about any one of thousands or millions of possibilities that would NEVER occur on earth. Having each of your vessels be multi-purpose is smarter than not. There are hundreds or thousands of diplomats, they might as well travel the smart way.
>>81273449Except why would you be ferrying diplomats into areas that aren't well-explored or full of potential dangers? Transport services would going from point A to point B with no detours.
>>81264447There was an anon like two threads ago who was unironically making an argument like this, and got so mad when I and others mentioned that other people contributed heavily to star trek that he made a thread prompt based on it.
>>81265244Man, LD has been a breath of fresh air during these dark times of the Kurtzman era, but the fact that the LD team can make such a clear love letter to Trek without the Kurtzman Krew getting in their way is very nice.
>>81273566>McMahan says they're going end Lower Decks before it catches up chronologically with the Picard flashbacks because at that point it stops being Star TrekThe consistent shade that LD throws at the other shows is pretty great.
>>81273468>Except why would you be ferrying diplomats into areas that aren't well-explored or full of potential dangers?In that case, no need to transport them by armed starship in the first place.
>>81265387Originally I was skeptical of LD so I watched it free at KimCartoon. But now that I've seen it and liked it, and want to rewatch all the trek movies... I may consider getting Paramount+. Not today but soonish.
>>81273138>It doesn't matter how good you can pew pew or do the double fisted hammer blow, if you can't manage a crew properly you'll never be a good captain.You act like security oriented captains can't do that. You do know most captains in today's navies don't go around shooting things 24/7 right?
>>81265592The Enterprise D was the Flagship, don't think the Original Enterprise ever was.
>>81265768Sorry you didn't enjoy it anon, but to each their own. I liked it for what it was, but I recognize that it comes down to personal opinion.
>>81265768>Mind-numbing and pointless.How is that scene pointless?
>>81266451Rick Berman sexually harassed a lot of the women, but moreover, Jadzia's actress wanted a raise like the other actors to renew her contract but Berman kept blowing her off, believing she wouldn't dare leave, so she left. When Behir found out Berman hadn't even negotiated with her in earnest he was furious but by then it was too late.
>>81237096When Gene Roddenberry was alive, he insisted that all religion was badwrong. After he died, the writers threw all of his demands in the trash because they stifle interesting writing. DS9 is what trek looks like when you do everything exactly the opposite of what Roddenberry wanted. Turns out, it's pretty good.
>>81273665It had a lot to prove coming off the heels of two kurtztrek shitshows. People were ready to puke blood so it not being yet another travesty was a small miracle in itself. Actually going on to be quaint, harmless nostalgiab8 that makes the setting feel more lived in probably took more than a few people by surprise.
>>81266751>the lack of quality is grossly conspicuous and I refuse to chalk it up to characters being "quirky.">It perpetuates a lack of emphasis on writing calibre, characterization, and narrative intellectual honesty, all benchmarks of the franchise.Friend, I'm a big fan of the deep nuance of TNG and DS9, the brilliant writing present in many episodes and well thought out character arcs... but When I went into Lower Decks expecting a bad comedy, I got a fun comedy.I don't think anyone here is going to claim LD's writing even comes close to TNG/DS9, but then it doesn't have to. It's a comedic show that takes the world of Trek seriously, but not its own characters. It's a fun romp through the rear ranks of Trek with a series of gags based on some of the silliest aspects of the Trek universe. You've said you don't find it funny and that's fine, humor's subjective... But saying that this comedy "perpetuates a lack of emphasis on writing calibre and narrative intellectual honesty" is a little goofy. Even shakespeare wrote comedies, and few would argue that the characters of "The Twelfth Night or What You Will" come close to being as nuanced as those in MacBeth. Not that I mean to imply LD is anywhere near Shakespeare, but rather that Comedy isn't meant to be very serious. Think Mel Brooks' Young Frankenstein; it treats Frankenstein as canon and uses the same trappings and jokes around with the setting, but it focuses around far less serious characters and puts an emphasis on laughing at some of the implications of the setting.
>>81266982>piloting for some reason,You're "commanding" the ship.
>>81273904I was under the impression that every Enterprise was the federation flagship.
>>81274115That probably only became the case specifically because Kirk was a living legend.
>I know we have a Prime Directive...but fuck that. This planet is a key staging point and we need it as a port. So make them part of the Federation by force if necessary.PD can go fuck itself when someone high enough on the chain says so I guess.
>>81267841>>81267968Again, I realize this is all opinion, and frankly it's great that you can defend it this well, but allow, if you will, a brief challenge.You claim >Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway, Archer, and the bulk of their crew know who they are, as adults and as people, and the few exceptions are rooted in a larger conceptual dialogue.Which, for the most part, is true, but these characters are both much older and more experienced. We rarely see these characters as ensigns, and the Episode called "Lower Decks" in TNG shows some ensigns who warranted assignment to the Flagship, and even they are riddled with fears and insecurities, needing to find themselves as it were.The premise of LD is as follows: if the Enterprise D was the best and brightestStarfleet has to offer in the future, then the Cerritos is the lowest Starfleet has to offer... and even at the lowest of the low, the worst you can really call the cerritos crew overall is petty at times. Boimler is secure in his Starfleet Training, but insecure in really applying it in the field. Mariner is secure in her experience, and really should be a higher rank, but is insecure in regards to responsibility, which is why she keeps finding ways to be demoted. Tendi and Rutherford are in their own ways bright eyed and bushy tailed newbies who (aside from Tendi's Desperate need to please and Rutherford's need to prove himself), really fit that older Trek idea of optimistic Starfleet Officers. The show is a comedy, that will effect the writing, but to say that these characters getting to know themselves isn't Trek-like is a bit strange, especially since the people you used as examples, Picard and Sisko especially, both had to learn a LOT about themselves, such as in TNG's "Tapestry" "The Inner Light" and "Family," or DS9's "Emisarry," "Beyond the Stars," and "In the Pale Moonlight," just to name a few.
>>81274224TOS didn't have the luxury of being all idealistic when in the middle of a cold war with the Klingon Empire and having fought a war with the Romulans not that long ago.
>>81274115>>81274136Archer's NX-01 Enterprise certainly was the flagship, if by nothing but default. I wouldn't see that changing until it was decomissioned or he retired at bare minimum.
>>81270879Not a bad way to distinguish my man.
>>81274058Yeah I don't understand who still gets worked up over it. It's like going to a game and getting pissed at the mascot.
>>81273665Based if true.
>>81273962This.In fact, STD and STP were/are so bad that people still auto-hate LD just because it's unfortunately grouped with them by Paramount. Heck it took me nearly a year or two to even think about giving LD a chance for that reason, I just assumed it was as bad as the rest. Glad I finally watched it but man... Secret Hideout Studios really crippled Trek.
>>81274224Normally I'd say stick to the PD, but the Eminians are belligerent assholes. I'm not surprised the place got a General Order 24 (aka glass the planet, fuck those guys) called on it
Has anyone ever decided to go through and count how many times Star Trek has forgotten the whole "you can't beam through shields" thing? Ignoring the Jem'Hadar and Borg who specifically have tech that let them transport through shields, of course because that's an actual plotpoint and not an ignoring of the setting's rules.
>>81274499I didn't officially count but I remember noticing it I think... twice in TNG? I recall DS9 being better about it but I could be wrong.
>>81274499Dyson Sphere Episode of TNG. Scotty's ship was holding the Door open with its shields, and Picard beamed he and Geordi off of the ship before firing torpedoes, with nobody mentioning the shields went down at any point.
>>81274499>>81274544>>81274560First Contact. Beamed the Defiant's crew on board through the shields because they definitely didn't lower them while going toe to toe with a Borg cube.
>>81274355Especially since we have STD and STP to get worked up over about, which are more egregious for trying to be "serious" Star Trek and coming off as comically edgy and schlocky.
>>81274499A Taste of Armageddon in TOS season 1 which I brought up earlier was the first time it happened, and it had already been established in TOS by that point that you can't beam through shields.
My only dislike for LD currently is I wanted them to get the novel crew of the Titan, if only because holy fuck they gave Tuvok something to do.
>>81274224>>81274285Honestly, TOS handled the PD a lot better than what it ended up turning in to. No one was worried that planet with the Indians about to be hit by a meteor might house future space nazi's or something when they redirected it away. It's only later we got the stupid shit of "the PD is basically an excuse for drama to avoid rendering aid when the universe fucks over a less developed species."Of course the aforementioned example didn't involve any actual contact. Not that early TNG really gets off here, since the entirety of the stupid "Wesley is sentenced to death for falling into some flowers" is basically an example of why the PD exists in the first place. What the fuck were they even thinking going down there?
>>81274975It's because in TNG and to a lesser extent DS9, the Federation is so terrified of actually having conflict and possibly a war erupt that they will bend over backwards and be complete doormats in diplomacy just so that one doesn't happen again. They've become comfortable with peace, and honestly that's why in a twisted way the Dominion War was a good thing because this was an enemy powerful enough and refused to engage in negotiation because all they sought was the Federation's total destruction or submission.
BUMP LIMIT APPROACHING!Correcting course, new heading entered at:>>81275232>>81275232>>81275232Course laid in, ready to engage!
>>81275249...Oops. I thought the bump limit was around 300
>>81275368Get ready for a court Marshalling captain..
>a bird of prey is attacking them through their shields>they attack TWICE with phasers and that's itI don't care if they have the frequency to shoot their their shield, it's a near-century old Bird of Prey against a Galaxy-class ship, even with no defensive capability the Enterprise should win just by shooting back (which it does, with again, TWO phaser shots). Remember that when the Ent-D did its Alpha Strike and fired everything it had at a Borg cube, it left craters in the thing and actually gave the Borg pause. They could have vaporized that BoP in seconds if they actually bothered with their offenses. This pissed me off more than anything else in Generations because the D was shot down through sheer "because the writers said so"
>>81275368Well there's a nice surprise for all you soase players out there in the next thread.
>>81275928Worf: they have found a way to penetrate our shieldsRiker: rotate shield frequency.The End
>>81275981>>81275928Someone in yt comments of all places came up with a better scenario>It should've been the shields collapsed after the first shot and Worf saying: "That fist shot somehow penetrated our shields and disabled them. I can't get them back up." After the Enterprise fired back, the next shot should've taken out the weapons array and Riker ordering Geordi to restore weapons ASAP. Then when Riker figured out what to do and asked Data, he should've said after Worf informed them their shields would drop as their cloak engaged: "They'll be vulnerable." Geordi gets the weapons back online and once the cloak engaged, they should've fired phasers, not a torpedo. Also ordering Worf to fire the phasers as soon as the cloak began to engage.
>>81235507who is that zoomer?
>>81275928Personally I would've lied my ass off when Picard found out, said that like 20 Klingon ships attacked at once, and have everyone back me up. A little less embarassing.
Is STO good?
>>81276219It has some decent deep cuts from across the whole of Trek but the recent Klingon episodes suck and there has been a rapid increase in lootbox focuses
>>81276219If you're down with story missions that elaborate on the setting or RPing with randos as officers then its for you. Its ironically not very good at all for exploration
>>81276660How is space combat?
>>81276694Imo it's fun,
Oooooh, it's 310, not 300! ...huh.
>>81276842Is a ship lost forever when blown up like in EVE?
>>81276855Yes, NOW it's time to set a course:>>81275232>>81275232>>81275232Engage!
>>81276857Nope, you respawn.In harder difficulties you take some perma damage you can heal with either hull repair materials (which come in three variants) or at shipyard.
>>81274115The notion of "flagship" in Star Trek is so weird. Like, what is actually the purpose of this so called flagship? How does it differ from any other ship?