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How do you separate monsters that were designed as caricatures of racial stereotypes from their source material, while still preserving those negative qualities that you enjoy using in the monster?
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>>79732220
>monsters that were designed as caricatures of racial stereotypes
These mostly don't exist, it's a twitter SJW boogeyman.
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>>79732220
I stop caring about the opinion of people who don't play games and run them as normal.
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You don't. Pic related, it's my favourite monster based on a racial stereotype.
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>>79732220
You just use the monster as it exists in universe and don’t naval gaze about some 100,000 word essay that some chapo made about how it’s racist to something in the real world. Because real people and fantastical beings are different. Life’s too short
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>>79732233
I mean they do though. I love my Goblins to be big-nosed, money-hungry, sniveling cowards who deserve to be shot on sight, but I'm aware of what that makes them an allegory for.
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>>79732244
The textbook definition of based.
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>>79732279
Then you acknowledge the allegory has merit.
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>>79732344
Yes and no. I don't want to make that allegory myself, but I do want to use Goblins as big-nosed, money-hungry, sniveling cowards who deserve to be shot on sight. And I recognize that people would make that association, even if it's one I don't want to make.
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>>79732220
Crank it up to 11 and give them ethnically appropriate names.
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>>79732248
What Stefan Amaris did is a totally reasonable response to being kicked out of an all-you-can-eat seafood restaurant.
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>>79732220
Mostly it doesn't bother me. But I don't use a lot of them.

My goblins are snub nosed bestial cowardly pests. They're not human enough to be an allegory for a human culture.

The orc argument I shut down by pointing out that orcs are monster-odin worshipping genocidal Saxons with grey skin, and half orcs are almost universally Saxon rape babies, because orcs raiding villages, reaping the women, and slaughtering the men and children is so commonplace. There's no "but black people" argument to be had there.
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>>79732244
Thread should've ended here. There's nothing more to be said. Now everyone either change the subject or shut up and let the thread die before it gets drowned into political shitposting
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>>79732233
Fuck off neocon. Orcs are niggers and niggers are orks.
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I'm making a setting with monsters specifically designed with racial stereotypes. One race is violent and steals while another one tries to show how much better they are then another by giving away free stuff to said violent race.
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>>79733355
Orcs are Irish ya retard.
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I play D&D, which doesn't have... any in active circulation, though carnivorous NiggerPygmies might be in an obscure book. Sorry, just because there are millions of big dumb brute monsters doesn't mean that any of them are based on niggers. Big dumb brute monsters range from orcs (which... are smaller than humans, I'm pretty sure, or aren't half orcs smaller? idk) all the way up to frost giants, which are definitely supposed to resemble overly large vikings.

Orcs = Cool
Giants = Cool
Ettins = Cool
Niggers = Can be cool, but need a lot of work.

Anyway, nigs are humans, so you'd just use human entries for those, although giving them lots of blowguns, spears, darts, and juju shaman witch doctor bullshit is recommended
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>>79732364
Use the old reliable: whenever someone makes the association call them racist because no one else was thinking that
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>>79732279
"money hungry" isn't a D&D goblin stereotype and the nose is to make them look wacky and fanciful. kikes don't own "big noses," a proper jewish nose is like a potato, not a crazy pointy carrot thing
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>>79733407
But Irish are black...? C'mon anon, try to keep up.
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>>79733355
That's retarded. No.

Maybe in fucking Warcraft. But I'm not running fucking Warcraft.

>>79733313
If it's Warhammer, they're goofy cockney mushroom people.
If it's d&d they're vicious Saxons (with hints of genocidal Nazi) (faerun), or they're full on space Nazis (Spelljammer). I don't run any other d&d settings with orcs, so I can't comment on those.
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>>79733574
And good luck convincing the group that "the Nazis are the same as African Americans" without coming across as the most deranged racist in town.
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>>79733503
>Black Irish
Doesn't mean what you think it means
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>>79732220
I don't. Nobody I play with give a fuck.
Fortunately I live in a country where SJWs are a tiny, cargo cult minority only found online, and promoting their bullshit is a criminal offense.
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>>79733817
>Promoting their bullshit is a criminal offense
What country is that, Russia?
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>>79732267
This

>>79732244
Also this
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>>79733923
Yes.
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>>79732220
We are stupid as a group but we arent that retarded to believe in the "muh racial stereotype" garbage
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>>79734006
Well, that's an upside to Russia then.
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>>79734006
Is it worth it for everything else? Genuinely asking.
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>>79732220
by reverting back to childhood joy. as a kid, i was not raised with racist ideas or impressions of other peoples. in fact, its only since the SJW types made so much noise about orcs, goblins etc that i've since thought "hmm, actually, yeah i can see the resemblance"
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>>79734143
We have a lot of local problems here. Rampant corruption, suppression of dissent, law enforcement and officials of sufficient rank could do basically anthing they want without repercussions, laughing in the faces of their victims, and a lot of policies of the last years led to noticable decline in income of citizens.
It's fine for me personally, as I work for government and enjoy some of the abovementioned privilegies too, though.
A lot of things here are restrictive and idiotic, but at least nobody forces western SJW bullshit on you, which is much worse kind of shit than local troubles by now, in my opinion.
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>>79732279
You love a template applied to the monster after it's creation. So the solution to OP's question is simple: return the monster to its roots
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>>79732220

my giant wolves and trolls eat people and my driders are murderperverts and any other way isnt proper.
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>>79734261
>Rampant corruption, suppression of dissent, law enforcement and officials of sufficient rank could do basically anthing they want without repercussions, laughing in the faces of their victims, and a lot of policies of the last years led to noticable decline in income of citizens.
>but at least it's better than those SJWs forcing you to put brown people in your RPGs!
well...to each their own I guess
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>>79732220
At no point have I looked at a monster and thought "This is a racial stereotype" so maybe you should stop being such a racist shit?
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>>79732220
you dont.
you wake up and accept that in the real world certain people have certain traits and that some of those are negative.
you absolute fucking baby
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>>79732220
Either make it so that the chaaracteristic monster is a subgroup of a larger culture like what vikings are to nords, or make it so that the creatures are not fully sentient and are artificial in some way.
Do you want to have the raiding villainous goblins? Just claim there are two types of Goblins: the race, which are normal sorts, and the feyborn, goblinoids who appear in specific areas and are primordial creatures of chaos and violence.
If you want to go deep, make some visual distinctions between the gobbos. Maybe they aren't even related at all, but the people correlated the two.
That way you can have your cake and eat it too, and if any sjw complains you can hit them with the "you're making assumptions based on your internalized racism, they're two different things and you just stereotyped them". Fucks them up real good.
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>>79732220
>How do you separate monsters that were designed as caricatures of racial stereotypes from their source material, while still preserving those negative qualities that you enjoy using in the monster?
Why would you?
Even should we accept that certain monsters are based on racial stereotypes that doesn't mean they're in anyway harmful or problematic. They're based on racial stereotypes, not racial traits. There's nothing wrong with playing off those tropes if they're not accurate. The ideas of the savage tribal, the money-grubbing merchant, the inscrutable foreigner or the rapacious empire builder are recurrent themes in throughout history, coding certain monsters to reflect those themes makes them recognisable to players and acts as a short-hand for what they should expect. Whether you play it straight or attempt a subversion the initial expectations are valuable.
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>>79735570
The west generally has both, so yes, that is in fact an improvement.
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>>79736119
Although, now that I think about it, I can think of any monsters that are racial stereotypes in any significant way. Orcs fit the theme of the savage barbarian raider but that doesn't make them niggers - slap a coat of paint on them and you could have vikings or mongols as easily as you have zulus. There's nothing racial about the idea of a dumb barbarian savage, it only becomes "problematic" if you assume savage=black and black=savage.
Unless you can find me a setting where the orcs have bones through their noses and speak in ebonics, then I'll accept that they're coded as not!niggers rather than just generic tribals.
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>>79732220
Guys we have to change orcs because they're LITERALLY just like black people, I'm not a racist though I swear but blacks are violent savages like orcs and making orcs evil means that you're the real racist
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>>79732220
By ignoring what Twitter thinks and enjoying our fantasy gaming and fantasy literature.
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>>79732279
That's just coincidental at most, the SJWs are the real racists if they claim it's somehow an allegory.
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>>79734143
A corrupt country is still better than a non-corrupt country where SJWs are allowed to walk around freely with no consequences.
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Pretty bold for anyone to assume that blacks even have a presence in fantast fiction. Since it is fantasy, we can have a world with only white people. And that is why it is good. I dont even want the stereotypes.
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>>79732367
I had a goblin professor NPC named "Bloodcoin "
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>>79732220
>monsters that were designed as caricatures of racial stereotypes
no such thing, monsters are symbolic of entropy, disorder and decay on all levels

the rest of leftist paranoid
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>>79732220
By not equating pointy ears, hooked noses, and strange ownership rules with Jews and instead with fairies.
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>>79732279
>but I'm aware of what that makes them an allegory for.
Agreed, if Hitler targeted the gypsies instead of the jews all of Europe would've personally shipped them to the chambers.
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>>79732279
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>>79732279
you described a wagnerian dwarf
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>>79733486
This
OP is a nigger
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>>79736497
They always project their perceived faults onto others.
That trick is their bread and butter.
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>>79733313
>My goblins are snub nosed bestial cowardly pests. They're not human enough to be an allegory for a human culture.
But you didn't even move away from Jewish stereotypes and antisemitic tropes.
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>>79733638
Modern leftists hunt whites in the street so it's an apt comparison.
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>>79737228
What is this implying?
That there is some sort of macabre campaign of industrialized ogre rape being orchestrated from the shadows?
All in service of creating a physically robust and mentally stunted worker caste?
Man, you better cool it with those anti-gnometic conspiracy theories.
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>>79732220
>How do you separate monsters that were designed as caricatures of racial stereotypes from their source material
My setting doesn't have the same human ethnotypes as Earth does, so the monsters are separated from their source material by their source material being narratively disjoint from the game world. Nobody in the game world thinks orcs look like the Yellow Peril (which is what JRR's orcs most resemble, if you're looking for a racial slur to compare them to) because they don't even have a conception of East Asians, let alone the specific stereotype 'Yellow Peril'
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>>79737487
How does the in game perceptions of race affect the allegories at all? There were no chinks in Tolkien yet even you admit parallels can be drawn between Tolkien orcs and east asians
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>>79732367
also do stereotype accents, like have the goblins say shit like "OY VEY!" and "MY SHEKELS!" when you kill them and they drop loot
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>>79736271
>Unless you can find me a setting where the orcs have bones through their noses and speak in ebonics, then I'll accept that they're coded as not!niggers rather than just generic tribals.
Considering how close that comes to describing trolls in Warcraft, I'm surprised how little bitching I hear about them.
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>>79736522
no such thing as a non corrupt country.
just openly corrupt and covertly corrupt.
openly corrupt is better because at least you know what the score is as opposed to being taken by surprise in the covertly corrupt countries.
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>>79736314
I respond to morons like that with this. >>79733574
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>>79737416
That's mostly crazy white people hunting non crazy white people.
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>>79733574
the scro are not orcs, orcs are uncultured, savage swine. the scro are glorious new chosen people.

now die as i rip out your guts with my bare hands for spouting such preposterous bullshit.
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>>79738512

Because Warcraft is too dated a reference for zoomers.
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I don't. If I want x race to be my stand in for unsavory jews or violent africans I will make it very apparent for all parties that that was the intention.
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>>79737900
Sorry, I think you're confused. 'Can draw parallels' does not mean 'is allegorical of'.

You asked how I separated them from their source material, I do so by using them in a context which lacks their source material. My players will not be presented with anything which is allegorical of East Asian peoples or customs, so the possibility of the player connecting the orcs to such people and customs is precluded, unless the connection exists already in the player. If it does, then the player is the problem, not the orc.
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>>79732367
Like Jewblins and Nigorcs?
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I guess just do them as stereotypes of profession or nationality rather than race. Make your goblins a race of lawyers, only requires changing out the hand-wringing for a strutting walk.
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>>79738696
Scro are just smarter more advanced orcs, and they know it. Theres a reason they don't hunt orcs the way they do everything else.
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>>79739053
I think he means name your goblins names like Rosenburg and Oppenheimer.
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>>79738512
Trolls are actually pretty positively depicted in warcraft. Ancient empires, killed their own evil gods, most reasonable warchief, etc
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>>79739598
Honestly, neither the Trolls nor the Tauren fit in with the horde. They're too decent.
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>>79738617
Yeah, leftists killing normal people and burning cities.
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>>79740284
Crazy leftists.
Im not a burger, but I vote further left of center than the US Democrats policies, and I still think they were crazy.

But I'm voting left because I refuse to vote to abolish our social safety net, not because I'm pro censorship or pro racial caste system.

Shame there's only a couple parties you can actually vote for.
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>>79740578
Sorry anon, you're one of the crazy ones supporting these people and causing their problems with your policy while blaming the other 'side' for heinous crimes.
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>>79740578
>But I'm voting left because I refuse to vote to abolish our social safety net,
>implying the Right haven't already shifted left enough to find that acceptable.
Anon, the overton window has drifted significantly from where it was back in 2008
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>>79740995
>implying the Right haven't already shifted left enough to find that acceptable.
>Implying
I'm implying nothing.

That was their main campaign promise last election, to remove the Federal funding for public healthcare and make the provinces find a way to raise the money.

The guy who is running Ontario right now severely cut back on the funding for hospitals and then when covid hit, surprise surprise: problems.

>>79740857
>You're to blame for their crazy because it enables them.
And I would be to blame for defunding hospitals if I voted conservative. There's no "good" party to vote for, so I look at who is my "biggest threat to myself and my family this election" and vote against them. And I will continue to do so until I stop needing to.
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>>79743016
>, so I look at who is my "biggest threat to myself and my family this election" and vote against them
The problem with that arises when you are deceived and gaslighted about which group is the bigger threat
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>>79743016
Joke's on you I voted NDP last go-around, solely because we've always had an NDP MP and I'll be damned if I let some silly thing like policies and the changing economic climate alter that fact
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>>79732220
I don't. I like the caricatures they are useful for narrative purposes and if my players want to interact or counteract that they are well within their rights.
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>>79743016
Yes, your entire worldview is the problem looking at the solution as parties to vote for makes you the entire issue.
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>>79743154
Imagine supporting someone who's a threat to your friends and family just because the other guy is ugly and you don't like him.
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>>79732233
Fpbp
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>>79743177
I voted NDP too. NDP is "left of center."
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>>79743260
I realize that, I'm saying that the only reason I did so is blind partisan loyalty rather than actually thinking about who and what I'm voting for
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>>79743206
>Parties to vote for as the solution
The solution would be electoral reform, no more first past the post, move to mmpr. But our election frauding cunt of a prime minister blocked that in 2016 after promising to "implement the electoral reform the experts agree on" and "this will be the last election under first past the post". So here we are.

>>79743280
>I voted for blind partisan loyalty.
Well, if you're going to show blind partisan loyalty to someone in Canada, the NDP is pro collective bargaining and pro healthcare. You could make a dumber call.

>>79743154
>When you're deceived about which group is the bigger threat.
It's a judgment call to be sure. But the guy who is proudly promising to fuck us around as his campaign slogan? I probably don't want to pick that guy.
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>>79735570
>but at least it's better than those SJWs forcing you to put brown people in your RPGs!
It's a symptom decease of a bigger social problem in the west. It's like the choice between living in a country with corruption, and a country where 50% of the population is insane and divorced from reality.
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>>79732220
The easiest way is to include humans who are balanced and fleshed-out analogues of whatever race the monsters were initially a stereotype of. This way, you can highlight the fact that the goblins are monsters, and not stand-ins for people.
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>>79743368
Yes you voted for and supported a fascist. It doesn't matter why you did it or what he promised you. You supported and endorsed him, apparently because you're stupid enough to be fooled by him.
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>>79733355
No they aren't. When D&D orcs became a thing blacks were not really a big deal. People didn't get up and think about them, our lives back then did not revolve around them. Today that may be the case. But back then it was not.

So fucking tired of modern SJW bullshit trying to insert their shit into things that have nothing to do with them.
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>>79743970
>Haha the scumbag you voted for in 2015 got your vote through lies and deception!
Right. And conservative politicians definitely never do that. Harper definitely didn't lie in his campaign promises before he got elected! And he definitely didn't sell out the country with a sketchy "trade agreement" where China has us by the balls, because conservative politicians are so reliable and trustworthy.

Gimme a break.
>>
I just switch up my racial stereotypes. Gnomes continue to be greedy jews though, it's only right and natural.
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>>79732220

>monsters designed wholecloth as racial caricatures

Such as?

>>79733355

Orcs are literally asians.
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>>79746492
And again you're deciding to support awful human beings. Willfully and of your own volition, making you responsible. Picking a bad person means you picked a bad person your excuses don't justify the behavior because you chose to endorse them.
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>>79746525
>Orcs are Asians.
No way. Gruumsh is a monster knockoff of Odin with some genocidal nazi ideology mixed in, and his wife bestowed divine crossbreeding powers on the orcs so they can increase the number of orcs and half orcs from any 2 legged creature size medium or large.

Orcs are Nazi Saxons.
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>>79746761

I know it's bait, but

>squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types (letter 210)

Here's your waifu, bro
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>>79746749
>Again you're deciding to support
Nah. I made the mistake in 2015. In 2019 I voted for Singh's NDP. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling hoping you can get me butthurt though. My conscience is clear about the 2019 election. Even though my candidate I voted for lost, I made the best choice possible.

Best of luck getting a rise out of someone else though.
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>>79732220
When I was a kid and I watched Harry Potter I didn't know that the goblins were kikes, they were just creepy and unnerving monsters that I didn't like.
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>>79746809
>Tolkien.
I'm not running or playing merp/aime/Tor. Tolkiens orcs are relevant to middle Earth. Other settings have taken the concept in different directions.

Middle Earth orcs may be supposed to be asian. Faerunian orcs are their own grey skinned gruumsh worshipping thing.
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>>79746891

I found that works that reuse other races are pretty bad, in terms of "depth" of said races.

At most they tend to be entertaining, like Warcraft. But thematically you shouldn't take them as anything with a modicum of worth.
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>>79733355
Bullshit. Not only are Orcs always good at war, their cultures are often based in Norse or Celtic cultures. Orcs are whiter than actual white people, and that's a fact.
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>>79746980
Eh.

Some of us like the forgotten realms novels (not so much Greenwood or Salvatore, but Cunningham and Kemp Byers, and Baker are great).

If I'm going to run or play d&d, it's certainly not for its game mechanics, it's only because it's convenient for faerun.

But the point stands, that in the "typical game" people are playing, the orcs are "whiter than white people" as >>79747012 said.

But sure. If we're playing one of the Tolkien based RPGs, the orcs are Asians.
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>>79746849
True, it's not like you'll ever learn your lesson anyway.
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>>79747252

I don't see any norse or celtic influence on Faerun's orcs lifestyle
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>>79732233
FPBP
Goblins have no antisemitic origins. You can easily argue that the ones in Harry Potter are, which isn't surprising given Rowling's other delusions, and that the goblins in World of Warcraft potentially are, but the origin of them has nothing to do with it. Big noses are common in folkloric creatures from Europe. The only type of goblin in European folklore that has any connections to Jews is a specific variation of Knocker from Cornwall which was said to be the souls of Jewish miners who were stuck roaming the Earth since they don't have an afterlife (in Christian understanding, anyway). But those weren't evil spirits. Instead, they punished OTHERS for their greed and regularly saved the lives of Christian miners.
>>
>>79747341

Some Germanic Elements:
> Gruumsh. One Eyed War God. Uses a Spear.
> Culture of raiding and pillaging and raping and war.
> Axes and Spears, especially Axes.
> No culture of horsemanship.
> Not a strong archery culture.
> Berserkers.
> Clan structure.

Nazi-ish orc elements.
> Orc supremacist beliefs, incl that nonorcs are to be killed or used to breed more orcs.
> Coexistence is unacceptable.
> Everything to do with the Scro.

I don't know what the Celtic elements were supposed to be, and I would say more Germanic pagan (on land) than Norse. Mostly the distinction being that orcs aren't boat people.
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>>79747598
IE I'd say if they're inspired by anything, it's a mix of visigoth / norse stuff, and Nazi stuff.
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>>79732220
My argument against goblins being antisemitic is that they were being described in a recognizable fashion *before* any Europeans would have any reason to disguise their feelings about Jews. They would have no benefit to making one a metaphor and one not, so clearly they were concerned about two separate things
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>>79739411
Goldenblood and Oftenstabber
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>>79747598
>> Gruumsh. One Eyed War God. Uses a Spear.

I can concede that (even if one eye gods/heroes are pretty universal in indoeeurpean myths) but

>> Culture of raiding and pillaging and raping and war.

Sounds like the mongols.

>> Axes and Spears, especially Axes.

Hardly germanic, actually. Maybe viking.

>> No culture of horsemanship.

Dude, the Migration Period was pretty much about horses as well (they even introduced the stirrup). Moreso than romans.

>> Not a strong archery culture.

Doesn't seem particulary identifying?

>> Berserkers.

Ok.


>> Clan structure.

Typical of every tribal society.

> Orc supremacist beliefs, incl that nonorcs are to be killed or used to breed more orcs.
> Coexistence is unacceptable.
> Everything to do with the Scro.

I guess but the nazis themselves were "accepting" of many conquered people. I mean, it's still weird as fuck to have contemporary ideology in non-renassaince, but even so.
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>>79746849
lmao you're so fucking mad
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>>79746980
Your findings are incorrect.
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>>79747455
what delusions? jews are goblins irl, she was just writing what made sense
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>>79748953
As demostrated by your counter-examples.
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>>79749031
No demonstration is needed. Fix yourself.
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>>79748974
>what delusions?
Probably the whole not believing that a mutilated eunuch is a woman thing.
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>>79736755
>Agreed, if Hitler targeted the gypsies instead of the jews

Hitler sent Gypsies (And homosexuals) to the camps as well. Estimates range from one forth to roughly half of all Romani on the planet at the time where killed in the camps.
>>
>>79750969
I mean as his primary target.
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>>79732220
You don't. The ones who look at fantasy non human races and think that they somehow represent real life groups of people in a negative way such as ethnicities are probably the worst kind of racists out there. The real cherry on top is that said racists think they aren't racist. At least the archetypal racists they hate don't hide that they are racist.
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>>79737486
Pretty sure it's implying human men are getting their freak on with ogre women.
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>>79751419
Every estimate I've ever seen had the Nazis killing about 38 million or something ridiculous. 6 of those were Jews, the rest were gay, Romani, mentally or physically disabled...
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>>79752164
Disabled people, gays, and romani were barely a blip on the radar clocking in at less than a million, the majority of victims were Jews (5-6 million), Soviets (about 6 million), Soviet POWs (about 3 million) and Poles (2-3 million)

There were a few thousand Jehovah's Witnesses but that's because the elders sold them out to save their own skin while they fled to other countries.
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>>79750645
MODS MODS MODS
STOP THIS TRANSPHOBIA
WE DIDN'T HIRE YOU TO SIT AROUND
MODS MODS MODS
>>
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>>79733668
>>79733503
>>79733407
>Black Irish
Black as bog!
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>>79733668
Don't be silly, anon. Everything past present and future is whatever american racialism deems it to be.
>>
>>79733668
Everyone knows there's no more blacks in Ireland after Liam Neeson had his way with them

Also, I swear to god if I see one more fucking American retard talking about the Black Irish as if they were niggers I'm going to go off it
>>
>>79733355
>>79733407
>>79733574
>>79744770
>>79746525
>>79747012
Orcs are unironically Germans, children
>>
>>79743382
so you are fine with living in what amounts to banana republic run by literal mob because the mob is ostensibly antagonistic to crazy opinionated people whining on twitter?
>>
>>79754002
But most orcs in modern media are not tolkien orcs...

but yeah
>They can make something clever, but never beautiful
>>
>>79754111
>They can make something clever, but never beautiful
So they're 4chan.
>>
>>79754125
pretty much
>>
>>79754092
Of course he is, that's why he's ignoring that the whole mental illness thing he made fun of is a result of the economic pressures in the states, that it's a problem not relegated to any one political or cultural group, and that he most likely is himself mentally ill, and just assumes it's normal because his state daddy told him that's how things are.
>>
>>79754125
Nah, we've occasionally worldbuilt some pretty neat settings.
>>
>>
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>>79754125
>Eternally hateful of everyone else, but ultimately never more hateful than of themselves.
>Hate the beauty of starlight and the brightness of the sun, sitting around in the dank caves of their parents basements all day.
>Normally disorganized and only a minor threat, but if they find a tyrannical leader to rally behind, they form into a massive vicious horde with terrifying speed and efficiency.
>Incredibly inventive and capable of extreme feats of creativity but most of the time too focused on self-loathing and undirected malcontent to get their shit together.
>>
>>79732220
Do it on purpose and when they accuse you of it, deny everything and then gaslight the shit out of them for your own amusement.
>>
>>79752360
>FILTH!
>>
http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2012/04/25/how-to-think-like-an-orc/
>>
>>79732220
I don’t know anon, why don’t you tell us about what racial characteristics YOU see in orc, goblins and other filth?
>>
>>79765207
this... this hits a bit too close too home for me :|
>>
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>>79732220
Easy, the moment someone brings up this cringe racial politics from the real world into a fantasy setting an angry god kills their character with a meteor.

You usually only have to do it once.
>>
>>79732220
Why separate it?
>>
This is the future you chose, /tg/. You chose this when you decided to throw up your hands and say "meh" to the SJW menace back into 2014 instead of organizing and raising the fuck out of these sites, using lure&cure tactics, and actually rejecting the edition as much as possible, but the fauxbertarians on here decided "it doesn't matter as long as I sit in my basement with the same 5 friends and play homebrew and only homebrew for the rest of my life." Now the hobby is flooded with normies who play nothing but 5e and as such the content for 5e is nothing but the lowest common denominator inoffensive shlock. Remember when 3.5 had the cancer mage and all kinds of cool creepy prestige classes? That shit is never coming back. Which is too bad because 5e is competently designed at it's core, the content is just boring. And have fun finding a group for anything other than DnD or Pathfinder because you'll be sorting through them for hours.

All you had to do was listen. It didn't have to be like this.
>>
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>>79732220
>How do you separate monsters that were designed as caricatures of racial stereotypes from their source material, while still preserving those negative qualities that you enjoy using in the monster?
Abandon the "monster" part and just use the racial stereotype. Problem solved.
>>
>>79768724
Kek, imagine a game like that. Could be even funnier if the campaign's plot twist was it was actually anti racist all along: the party would be the last group of based whities but along their adventure they'd recruit the strongest and best dancin' black guy, the smart as fuck nerdy asian, a mexican dude fast enough to put sonic the hedgehog to shame and an irish lad who could drink any ammount of poison without even burping. Then at the end you all have to use your special skills together to defeat the final boss Shlomo Sheckelberg and you discover he was the one who was pitting you all against one another and after you banish him to the volcano demons realm your people all become friends and you can build an utopia.
>>
>>79769829
>it's anti racist if it's entirely racist
Ah, yes, the white mindsight.
>>
>>79768265
5e started as The Grog Edition, hence the emphasis on completely evil and savage monsters and the removal of the sane monster kingdoms in FR. The simple ruleset attracted people with less interest as well as those people who had drifted to Pathfinder. Hoisted by their own petard.
>>
>>79768265
Sad truth.
>>
>>79767939
This
>>
>>79769956
Using racism to mock racism, didn't you read the end, they would all become friends,it was the plotting bbeg sewing division and turning this would be wholesome band of bros against one another.
>>
>>79770408
and that only works with antisemitism?
>>
>>79770671
Reality is antisemitic
>>
>>79768265
>new edition of dnd
>rejected
>doesn't know that 3.x was everything he speaks of back in the day, but he's a zoomer, so he wouldn't know better
Yes, yes, dnd is the worst thing ever, not muh dnd, etc.
>>
>>79732220
I make shit on the fly as I go.
I never used rules, monsters, races, stat blocks, spells, powers, feats, challenge ratings, character classes, character points, maps, modules, NPCs, and whatnot as intended by whoever wrote or designed them; I always saw them as mere sugestions that I only use as a very moldable baseline.
And my players love it.
Fight me.
>>
>>79753979
Please correct me, but in my understanding black irish implied that it was an irish with mixed ancestry from portugal or spain?
>>
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>Irish
>>
>>79754092
Do Russians really think that every single person in the West acts exactly like the fifteen dumbest people on Twitter? It's still mostly normal in most places.
>>
>>79732279
>nooo not the hecking jewarinos
Who cares?
>>
>>79770703
>>
Just be sufficiently historically grounded that the barbaric races are actually from a place it's not hard.
>>
>>79771845
>from a place

Orcs, Welshman and other savages aren't 'from' anywhere, they coalesce fully formed in cess pits, bogs and other unwholesome places.
>>
>>79770789
No, it's literally just Irish people with the phenotype for black hair and darker features. Still white, just a darker complexion, and you have to remember that we're talking about Ireland here, when I say darker complexion I still mean lighter than most Italians. It just means dark hair and not translucently pale.
>>
>>79772432
I know next to nothing about the Irish except that one faction of them were Bongland's ISIS at a point and they sperged out about potatoes, why are they so hated?
>>
>>79732220
It's never been a problem for me because I only game with human players.
>>
>>79772654
They have consistently been the targets of english domination attempts and rebellions so much of the hate is propaganda
>>
>>79770671
To the hyperphilosemite, anything not philosemitic looks antisemitic. If you don't think there's anything special about Jews or that Jews deserve special treatment, they will call you an antisemite.
>>
>>79773080
Agreed I'm not from /pol/ and not even an american, I'm a britbong but it does beg the question how much of our political discourse is about a small country in the midle east and incessant complains about how we somehow owe it special treatment when we were the ones fighting the actual nazis. It gets grating and I'm not surprised people start resenting it.
>>
>>79732220
I don’t know. But white people need to do better.
>>
>>79774253
You ever want to rustle jimmies, call settlements what they are, Lebensraum.
>>
>>79732220
I don't, I just use them and if anyone points this out, I call them 'the real racist' and kick them out of my house.
>>
>>79750645
But don't you see, drugging yourself up on distilled horse-piss totally makes you a real and honest woman!
>>
>>79736522
If you’d rather the politicians just openly pocket your tax money then you’re a real bootlicking pussy
>>
>>79771081
The HIV has rotted their brains.
>>
>>79732279
goblins don't even have stereotypical jew noses
>>
>>79757718
>we've
Oh, what did you do personally?
>>
>>79768265
>"it doesn't matter as long as I sit in my basement with the same 5 friends and play homebrew and only homebrew for the rest of my life."
This is correct though
Fuck off political cretin
>>
>>79776122
If you complain about trannies in D&D I suspect it’s because you don’t have enough normal friends to fill up your table.
>>
It’s what IRL evil races say about good cultures and societies they want to destroy.
>>
>>79732220
Have the caricature be cool. People forget that dwarves are the original fantasy jews.
>>
>>79739598
>most reasonable warchief
>"Yes, Sylvanas, ya be the Queen next."
>>
>>
>>79780296
I've literally never seen anything remotely like the second 'side'
>>
>>79732220
Why would you???
>>
>>79732220
you dont
either you continue using them and be a hypocrite the whole time or develop even an ounce of originality and make your own shit up
>>
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>>79732220
By enforcing the idea that the negative strereotypes are just characteristic attributes of beings that don't fucking exist rather than anything attached to races of people in the real world whom wouldn't exist in fantasy worlds besides alt history in the first place, or alternatively B stop playing with/ buying into god damn SJWs who actually think fantasy monsters are born only out of a stereotypical caricature of a race even when the world building contradicts that because they refuse to understand the concept of fucking coincidence, except to deny ginger erasure in media casting is a thing.
>>79747455
This fuckin dude is on point
>>
>>79732220

this is a non-issue for non politically retarded people.

growing the fuck up and enjoying a the game for what it is.
>>
>>79774253
>how we somehow owe it special treatment when we were the ones fighting the actual nazis
We apparently didn't lose enough American soldiers or beat the Germans fast enough.
>>
>>79775899
Better a robber who keeps your money for themselves than a robber who spends it on a war against you.
>>
>>79754092
I'm fine living here mostly because I'm one of the officials. My rank is not that high - for really high rank you need serious connections, but it puts me in a higher social class than commoners. So I have privilegies, opportunities for "extra income" and much more security than common people.
>>
>>79732344

That sounds like what you wrote was bait (low Quality at that) and you're now "sinking the hook" with the ah-got ya mentality of a small child whom suffers terriblely from developmental disorders and personality defects in an objective measurable way provable via science. That's just the facts.

About the topic. Be based, run the character, or monster as is, and don't give the fuck about stupid shit that other people virtue signal to make your stupid think you should virtue signal too because you both (and we all) want to seem more virtuous than you or we are.
>>
>>79750645
To be fair, the tweet that really got the TRA panties in a bunch was when she dared to say that people who menstruate are women. Doesn't she understand that cutting off your tits (and ideally getting some shitty ab implants) means that you're a manly man now?

>>79752254
Did the number of Soviets/Soviet POWs include Jewish Soviets? Because the 5-6 million number was only Jews who were specifically killed (or put into the camps where they would be killed) for being Jewish, but the line gets a little blurry when it came to Nazi treatment of Soviets since, you know, the Nazis considered Bolshevism to be a Jewish ideology and specifically decreed the murder of all political commissars for their role in "Judeo-Bolshevism".

Also, I think that the non-Jews murdered in the Holocaust was more like 4-5 million total, right? Don't know how that number counted gay Jews or communist Jews or crypto-Jewish Jehovah's Witnesses and stuff.
>>
>>79774253
fuck off to /pol/ you fucking antisemitic piece of shit nazi
>>
>>79732220
I love that people hear "big dumb primitive apelike brute" and immediately think "this might be offensive to black people" or "greedy hideous little trolls" and think "are these jews?"
>>
>>79789901
Go back to the oven you germanophobic loser.
>>
>>79732233
>Must invoke SJWs as quickly as possible.
But the goblins in HP ARE Jewish caricatures.
Goblins in general are not. But GW goblins are different from DnD goblins are different from Trolls 2 goblins, etc.
And racist stand-ins exist among various reimagined mythological creatures.

SJW boogie-woogie-men have nothing to do with it.
>>
>>79732233
fpbp

>>79732244
this too, fuck nogame fags
>>
>>79789995
fuck off leftoid tourist
>>
>>79789665
>Did the number of Soviets/Soviet POWs include Jewish Soviets?
As far as I'm aware no.
>>
>>79789995
>Be ugly greedy little goblin
>Be depicted in art as an ugly greedy little goblin
>Nooooo this is antisemitic
>>
>>79732220
Just don't care about it or divorce it. Goblins are goblins, gnolls are gnolls, orcs are orcs, if anyone asks, they aren't based on any human race, and in my games, that's true. Just never adress it unless someone asks or accuses, and if thet insist that a goblin is a Jew or something, then ask them why on earth they think Jews are like your goblins, throw them on the defensive.
>>
>>79732248
What did he do?
>>
>>79771081
>Do Russians really think
All evidence suggests "no"
>>
>>79750969
Then why the fuck are there still so many of them?
>>
>>79750645
How can you speak like that biggot. Don't you know that because of Nazis like you many trans children attempt suicide and get into depression and anxiety
>>
>>79775899
The difference is in this case I'm giving my money instead of my bloodline
>>
>>79769829
I like this
>>
>>79770671
>Implying antisemitism is something bad
>>
>>79791708
Maybe you wouldn't be committing suicide if a groomer hadn't diddled you
>>
>live in a decaying state with rampant corruption, skyrocketing crime, and high rates of drug abuse and overdose
>go online to yell at people across the world for having too many brown people in their superhero movies
why are ruskies like this? does living in the snow drive you insane?
>>
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>>79792126
>Not getting bait
Common..
>>
>>79792143
>Yell
>Implying he specifically came here for that
Get the projectors out of here
>>
>>79792203
>Implying he specifically came here for that
There is no other reason to click on the /pol/bait thread about jewish goblins but to talk about western culture politics
>>
>>79792143
>Superhero movies
>Brown people
I'd prefer to have neither
>>
>>79732220
Yes they are based on some White culture instead
>>
>>79791273
You literally didn't read a single word did you?
Goblins in general are not antisemitic.
Goblins in Harry Potter are.
>>
>>79792223
So you see it's a pol bait thread you disagree with .
You specifically come here and then blame the guy for yelling opinions you disagree with even tho he is objectively in a thread made specifically for that. And then project he is invading while you are caught in the act .
God faggots are insufferable
>>
>>79789995
The left are the real racists.
>>
>>79775899
Better the monster who is honest about being a monster than the monster who isn't honest about being a monster, like SJWs.
>>
>>79792671
>Said the bootlicker
>>
>>79789995
Most of the HP characters' time in history class is spent learning about "the goblin wars". Late in the series Harry steals from a goblin and Rowling's self-insert yells at him for it, asking why he thinks there've BEEN so many goblin wars. He admits he doesn't know, because he always slept through history class.
It's a satire of British Imperialism, and not even a remotely subtle one. It comes up all the time with non-human sapient races in the series - see the Ministry of Magic pissing off centaurs by referring to them by the official legal term of "beings of near-human intelligence", and British wizards referring to Veela as dangerous monsters only for a foreign character to show up who has a Veela grandmother.
If anything HP goblins are way more like the Irish.
>>
>>79789665
>specifically decreed the murder of all political commissars
Not really seeing the problem here.
>>
>>79792647
Nothing you said was coherent
>>
>>79793066
>dodging
mmmkay
>>
>>79792628
>Be accurate depiction
>Nooo it's antisemitic
>>
>>79732220
Faggot
>>
>>79752254
So where are the bodies? How were they burnt? How much coal does it take to burn a body? How much coal was delivered to Auschwitz?

Answer these questions and you will see the real numbers. The Germans could not have killed more than 100,000 people at Auschwitz. The genocide of Prussia took the lives of at least 2 million German civilians.

So the holocaust was real but committed by Soviets against Germans (and Poles)
>>
>>79732220
I don't.
>>
>>79752254
It was like 300,000 mostly by typhus
>>
>>79772654
>why are they so hated?
The Irish or the British?
Because no-one hates the Irish, in fact a lot of Americans want to be Irish.

Also the potato sperging is ongoing. At the time it was just another European famine cause by bad economic practice (lol let's not build wheat mills and have our biggest food crop be animal fodder, what do you mean diversify my agriculture?) and a probably about as fast as anyone else recovery effort of massive human wheat imports that lasted for quite some time. So it's a wonder why people bring it up if it was so unremarkable.
>>79774253
>how much of our
Brit here too, seems to just be students and Palestinians (refugees? Immigrants?) bitching about it. Last I checked older folk feel betrayed by the entire foreign situation and no-one else really cares because before their time.
>>
>>79795183
You guys keep on making this claim as if we haven't found tons of ash and human remains around the camps. In fact, just two years ago a political group in Germany dug up a bunch of ashes so they could leave a barrel of them on the steps of parliament. And bodies don't require much coal if you have a constant stream of them because bodies are fuel, just with a high ignition point. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell at this point whether you're abad-faith actor or just genuinely retarded.

>>79792852
Don't bother, right now TRAs are really pushing the whole "Rowling is antisemitic" angle because they love to conflate criticism of them with racism. It's their favored tactic.

>>79792187
To be fair, it's genuinely hard to tell the TRA party line from the parodies. What I usually do when tslurs claim that not giving them everything they want causes suicide is I post this resource and point out that threats of self-harm are a form of abuse.
https://www.thehotline.org/resources/when-your-partner-threatens-suicide/
>>
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>>79732220
I'm not worried about stereotypes or racism or inclusivity or equity or diversity or triggering or any of a thousand other politically correct leftist buzzwords. I play games to largely escape the bullshit of leftist modernity and if anyone at the table is "offended" they can leave. In 40 years of gaming I've never actually had anyone do that, but they are welcome to.
>>
>>79750969
>Estimates range from one forth to roughly half of all Romani on the planet at the time where killed in the camps.
Sure, sure, and the same people estimate 6 gorillion jews died too.
>>
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>>79732220
You can't. Instead you stop pretending like its a problem.
>>
>>79797789
>What I usually do when tslurs claim that not giving them everything they want causes suicide
Unironivally never happened to me , but I have seen it happen to other people so I prefer to just not communicate with the species
>>
>>79732233
>>79732244
EVERY POST AFTER THESE TWO POSTS IS SUPERFLUOUS
>>
>>79792852
>Irish
He does look kind of like Michael D. Higgins.
>>
>>79754002
Supremely based. In Tolkien, orcs are G*rmans, dwarves are Jews. On the rare occasions when I run high fantasy, I use this association. While we're at it, centaurs are nomadic barbarians like the Scythians or Huns
>>79762403
I like this
>>
>>79792852
This. Brits have a general disdain for any other race but they have a giant hateboner against the Irish and Scottish. Passed multiple laws that outright banned Gaelic and destroy Irish culture permanently.
>>
>>79803340
...but according to our dumpster fire of a system, irish are White and oppressors rather than oppressed.
>>
>>79791606
He is the man responsible for the collapse of the most advanced human civilisation (The Star League) in the battletech universe
>>
I can't really think of any where that is the case. Espcially since most are based on folklore that is old enough in a culture's history that it was before they even interacted with other cultures/races to even construct caricatures of racial stereotypes.

Most were just (insert scary animal, add even more scary shit, make it bigger, then add magic), or angry spirits n shit made physical.
Occationally you will see monsters that are based on negative ideas made physical like evil dragons being representation of most of the 7 deadly sins rolled into a monster that has every predatory animal trait that we fear on a instinctual level rolled into one super monster that is the perfect symbol of the most powerful and destructive forces both of nature and within man.
A body representing all that is frightful in the beast world with a mind that represents all that is frightful in the hearts of men, and then on top of all that, just it breathing brings death and mass destruction be it poison, fire, or plague depending on the story.

Also I truly don't understand the retards that claim goblins have literally anything to do with jews. That is pants on the head retarded and that makes no fucking sense.
Can anyone explain that shit because it is even dumber then claiming orks in any way are about black people.
>>
>>79791708
>>79789665
>>79775798
>>79752298
Rent free. I mentioned other delusions because she's a radical feminist who hates men, thinks they're all out to rape her, has a massive complex about growing up as a tomboy, and falls over herself in support for the groups she thinks will shield her from criticism (Jews, gays, and "true" transsexuals). The only reason /pol/locks fall over themselves in support of her is because they hyper-fixate on trans stuff to the exclusion of all other issue because they are either generally mentally ill or have some really fucked gender hang-ups. At this point I assume most frothing /pol/locks, similar to Rowling actually, were diddled as kids.
>>
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>>79803859
>the retards that claim goblins have literally anything to do with jews
Both their women are top tier waifus.
>>
>>79732220
You don't, faggot.
>>
>>79732220Ya
My goblin character is named Rabbi Yankel Shekelsblattbergenstein
>>
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>>79804999
Now that I think about it, didn't the goblin priests look like rabbis in Majesty?
>>
>>79803340
As recently as last year, an Irish person died in Britain and their family were banned from putting an Irish inscription on the tombstone because "it would make people feel unsafe". It was also found that a large number of British businesses had secret blacklists against people with specific surnames, which were 90% things like "Murphy".
British soldiers have walked down the street in Ireland gunning down babies - the Irish government has tried for decades to have this recognized as a hate crime, but the official British stance is STILL that they shot in self-defence because calling yourself Irish is an act of religious extremism which made the soldiers fearful for their lives.
>>
>>79754002
>Orcs are unironically Germans, children
Tolkien himself is of partly German ancestry, and his last name is literally (old) Prussian, so this is a rather absurd claim.
>>
>>79732279
>I'm aware of what that makes them an allegory for
trickster feyfolk that like shiny things?
>>
>>79732220
>>
>>79810411
hes briddish and he fought germans in WW1
>>
>>79808078
>As recently as last year, an Irish person died in Britain and their family were banned from putting an Irish inscription on the tombstone because "it would make people feel unsafe".
Source?
>>
>>79792852
>It comes up all the time with non-human sapient races in the series - see the Ministry of Magic pissing off centaurs by referring to them by the official legal term of "beings of near-human intelligence", and British wizards referring to Veela as dangerous monsters only for a foreign character to show up who has a Veela grandmother.
The funniest one of these relates to a psychopathic werewolf villain who bites people even while not transformed. One of the heroes gets bitten, and the doctors note that while he isn't at risk of turning into a werewolf, he's still been tainted by the bite and will develop a taste for raw meat. All the British characters are horrified... but his French wife is delighted. She says Britons always burn their meat to a crisp, and the werewolf bite has finally allowed her husband to appreciate proper cooking.
>>
>>79815450
Werewolves in HP are also shown to suffer from discrimination because under the full moon they go berserk and kill people... except that historically most werewolves locked themselves up when they knew the full moon was coming, and nowadays there's a potion which allows them to retain their mind while transformed, making them completely harmless. Even without the potion, it's possible to help them retain some lucidity by interacting with them while shapeshifted into an animal yourself (albeit this kind of magic is both highly difficult to learn, and illegal without a license).
At the time, it was frequently called a metaphor for gay people with AIDS (specifically the part where parents tried to get a teacher fired for being a werewolf).
>>
>>79732220
>monsters that were designed as caricatures of racial stereotypes
Which are...?

The one you posted is not from a /tg/ source, it's from a book/movie. Created by J.K. Rowling no less - you know, the writer who also created "house elves", aka a race of beings whose main trait is that they love being enslaved.

Goblins in the original folklore were sometimes greedy too, but so were Leprechauns and a lot of other fantasy creatures. And also, just being greedy doesn't make it a racist caricature, greed is a universal trait, it's only when it's a combination of several stereotypical racial tropes like in Rowling's example
>>
>>79815091
https://www.doughtystreet.co.uk/news/coventry-family-wins-right-irish-only-inscription-gravestone

Also this thread reminds me how many potato lockers are on 4chan. You see them all the time in /his/



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