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Least bad general, in the least bad forum, for the least bad system edition.

>GURPS is a modular, adaptable system, capable of running a wide range of characters, settings, and play styles with level of detail varying from lightweight to completely autistic.
>Optional rules allow you to emulate different genres with a single system, even switching genres within a single game.

Previous GURPS >>79529119

A nearly complete trove of GURPS books can be found by those who pay attention to file extensions.
A genre guide can be found in the archive, under Unofficial > GURPSgen. It tells you what books and articles you need for many common genres.

Thread question: what's the best magic item under the 60-energy Quick-and-Dirty threshold?
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>>79645268
GURPSbros... How do i use the Situational Awareness rules in Tactical Shooting to make fights confusing and fun?
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Are there any alternate melee weapon skills that simplify them like Alternate Gun Specialties did for guns?
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What's up GURPS gen?! Missed you.
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Shattered Worlds Crucible gameday was:
a crashed PC, a Mexican standoff over a wallet, a hijacked mech, machine gun full auto warning shots, a blowdart to the neck, then a beer hall, secret notes, drunken postulation on cryptic imagery, lamenting windows, a HT failed by 7, a dwarf in the night, failed secret language, diving into a pisshole, phobia vomit, and then finally answers

All in all a solid game day. How about you guys?
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>>79645771
No, but there are wildcard skills.
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>>79645268
Gurps?

More like Burps!
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>>79646585
You got that right.
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>>79646585
Every thread, some shill comes here to tell us he thinks gurps is the best system.

This is a strange place to show up to try to convince us to play gurps.
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>>79645268
So I brought this up last thread but then it died.

Someone asked for the PDF and I shared it, I'll do it again here for convenience.

How would you guys run Stargate in gurps 4e?
> 1. Which options would you toggle?
> 2. Any advice on converting the gear or aliens either from this gurps lite 3e doc, or otherwise?
> 3. Is there a good template for SG Team airforce soldiers and scientists and historians and whatnot?

Thanks for your advice.
>>
>>79646855
Honestly? Action rules. It's an action show. They occasionally go into military-babble, but from what I remember of the first few seasons (which I watched a while ago and never really got around to finishing), Action rules are what I'd use. For characters, I'd use Action 4 - Specialists. Sam might have Academics & Scientist as a couple of her packages, Daniel would have Academic and probably a custom package built around the Linguistics skill, Language Talent, Archeology, and Theology (Comparative) skills, etc.
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>>79647555
>Action
Cool. That was my guess, but glad to hear someone else agrees I was on the right path.

Any advice for how to the gear?

staff weapons, zatniktels, wraith stunners, and Traveller energy pistols for guns, stun grenades, goa'uld long-range communicators, goa'uld hand devices and forcefield devices (they block fast projectiles but not something like a thrown knife) and maybe lantean personal shields (they block everything but gases, but run out of battery after a little while).
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Do you guys play with a battle map or without?
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gurp
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Are there any good streamed GURPS campaigns online?
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>>79647747
I refuse to do so
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>>79647747
With. We're in it for the autismal fantasy fight simulationism.
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>>79647747
Depends on the fight. If there are a lot of enemies and cover and stuff going on in a fixed location, I pull out the minis and terrain.

If it's a simple or easy fight, or if the fight is also a chase with changing locales, no terrain.
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>>79647747
With, definitely. Just to keep the logic of who is where, when, sorted

>>79647823
I'm jealous; how is foundry gurps?!
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>>79647703
Again, it's been a while, and I only watched, like, half of SG-1, so I don't know how the later stuff works. Disclaimer out of the way:
Staff Weapons, from what I recall, are basically really low Acc, low ROF Plasma guns.
Zats are lethal electrolaser pistols that, as a special effect, have to actually *shoot* you a second time to kill you instead of just spending 2 ammo per shots. The third shot disintegrating you is a special effect.
The Goald "I'm totes a god" tech stuff basically just "works" - their force fields are Conformal Force Screens that only work on attacks above a certain velocity as a GM-level declaration, while their hand devices are basically ultratech Pocket Regenerators + ... I wanna say tractor beams? They can freeze people and do some low level TK, right? Whatever. Stuff like that.

Basically, if I were running an Stargate campaign, I'd just grab the appropriate bit of tech that seems "close enough", cut out capabilities that it definitely doesn't have, maybe add some capabilities I think it "should" have, and not particularly futz too hard with the details.
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>>79648016
Fucking great. The ability to restrict players vision angles makes watching angles and confusion in tight spaces much more natural. And the GURPS module has a lot of built in things, like dropdowns to select combat modifiers and hit locations for the roller.
My Sunday GM started running a fantasy game in it, and I dropped the cash on the program the next week. Really that good.
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>>79648075
So, don't worry about any sort of weapon point buy design system or anything, and just give it whatever it does in the show, starting with the most similar stuff I can find, and arbitrarily assign a dollar price?
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>>79648125
Well it seems the decision has been made for me by the fates. I submit to the Grand Order, and I shall twiddle in my own pool of divinity now too
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>>79648444
Yeah. Especially if you're playing into SG thematics, people don't exactly get to pick their loadouts, their gear is assigned by their higher ups.
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>>79648731
Gear will be easy enough then.

Build the ships with gurps spaceships?
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>>79648931
Yes. And based on my bitter experiences - you should build the ships for them as well, as a way to force them into creative thinking.
Spaceships is among the poorer 4e booksets. It can be fun, but it requires a lot of work and a lot of variant rules, and there asbolutely are going to be fairly obvious "best" ways to contruct a ship if you let your players build one.
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>>79649036
>Don't let your players design their own ship.
Noted.

Regarding the aliens
>Being of pure thought.
>Dying race
>All that tricky goa'uld stuff.
Any advice there?
>>
So i took the bait and got curious about gurps and i have read a few of the books.

I am blown away. The rulebooks are pretty well organized and the character creation might seem like a daunting task at first, the system does seem to make a lot of sense, and does not seem too hard to handle if you have an idea of what you want. Also just reading the list of skills, advantages and disadvantages stimulates ideas for characters and campaigns and playstyles.

But the source books, what the fuck. They are just very good reads. Like super interesting well written educational and entertaining textbooks that stimulate the mind. I am blown away.

Why is this game not more popular? I want to get my friends into this game instead of 5e
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>>79649603
well go on, pitch your friends an adventure, maybe something from https://1shotadventures.com/

I can recommend reading the adventures that have a 5e and a GURPS version to have something to compare to (the GURPS versions are always superior desu)
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>>79648519
Ah, nevermind
It seems I have been cursed with a dying video card, in the time of the great scarcity
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>>79649603
Yeah, it's got a lot of cool stuff. It's not perfect, and there are some things that make little sense that could use a rewrite (like the limited use limitation), but it's better than any other RPGs Ive tried

>Supplements
Gurps China in particular is shit though. If you want something like that, I'd say grab brp celestial empire or a college book on imperial China and Chinese myths. you might get some use from the templates though.
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>>79649603
During the late 3e and early 4e era a lot of autists were into GURPS that turned a lot of people away.
Also, SJG pays their writers decent money so they barely make any profit of GURPS and have no leftover for marketting.
Also, SJG are very... old fashioned and unadaptive when it comes to some stuff. Just look at their site. Or compare GCA (the official app) to GCS (the fan-made app). Or consider the lack of any VTT licensing. A lot of kids get their first rpg session with a virtual table top - and gurps is not an option for those (which might be about the change with the officially unofficial GURPS addon for Foundry).
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>>79649942
GURPS china might be bad from a scholar's point of view, but it was much better than any book my local college library had.
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>>79650190
>Better than anything you had in your college library
Ouch.

Here's the very angry review it has on Amazon, by a Chinese customer.

"I read over 20 GURPS books, most of them have text book quality that far beyond the need of simple game playing purpose. And because of the trusting I give to GURPS and as a Chinese I am, I bought the GURPS China. And it is the first GURPS book I seriously feel regret for having bought it! This book is full of WTF surprises during your reading process if you are a Chinese like I am or you at least have the RIGHT general picture about Chinese history and culture. I actually yelling "WTF!!" in midnight because of the shock this book gave to me. Such as: Shan Hai Jing is the God of Water in China. (WoW! This one really get me,) China was ruled by barbarians every few generations. (Where was this idea came from? China was conquered twice, that's all. And the mongolian paid the price of about 90% of their population been eliminated after their short-lived dynasty been overthrow。As for manchus, they were such hardcore fundamentalism of the imperial tradition that they actually stop the enlightenment process that already begun in China at that period.) China itself never developed as complex a Buddhism as Japan, India and Tibet. (Again, wrong story. In fact, most Buddhism factions that still exist today were set up in China, like the Chan faction which the Shaolin Temple belongs to. Buddhism was nearly extinct in India long before the modern time and the Japanese Buddhism is primitive contrast to what you can find in China even today.) China forbid the civil right of holding weapon during its empire age. (Wrong. Only Chin dynasty ban all weapon, and it only last 16 years. Different dynasties hold different law about this civil right."

(1 of 2)
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>>79650190
"But during all the time, Chinese civilian can have any kinds of sword and bow. Only the weapon be considering have serious military use would be ban, like spears longer than a grown man's height, lancers, and crossbow have the strength more than roughly 60 pounds. What could really trigger the nervous of government was not the weapon, but the armor. Holding any kinds of armor would be illegal in most dynasties, but many people purchased and keep them at home anyway. Especially the people used or still in service would do that. Fire arms was never illegal in China before the republic. Empire have permanent secret police department. (Not true. Only one dynasty, The Ming, have that. And the Jin YI WEI of Ming dynasty was considered by many Chinese people the less sinister figure of secret police. They focused on corrupt bureaucracy far more than normal messes . Song dynasty had a permanent intelligence agency, it was a CIA like stuff and had nothing to do with watching its own people.) Such kind of mind interrupting information keep jumping out during my reading of this book. I want to say the overall quality of this book is good, like a polite person should do in their interview of a book. But I can not do that. This book got many things right, that is all. But the writer simply lacks the proper general knowledge level this topic needs. He can gave good information from quote the right history book, but his overall ignorant nature(to China, specially) keeps him giving the readers devastating misleads. If you want to get useful knowledge of China, do not read this book. Even Wikipedia is better than this. For game purpose, do your own research. This book can't give you exciting adventure idea because the writer simply does not know what was exciting in the different times of China. I should not write this at all, because by looking at the rarely happened 0 reaction of a GURPS book on Amazon, I knew this book already sank. Let it keep that way."
(2 of 2)
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>>79650190
>>79650373
I had been planning on buying a copy before I saw that review. Then I changed my mind.
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>>79645268
Just bought the low tech and magic as my first supplements after the basic set.
Which should I get next? I'm mostly interested in historical, sci fi and sci fi campaigns
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>>79650467
*historical, fantasy and sci fi
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>>79649603
>Why is this game not more popular?
No marketing
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>>79649603
>Why is this game not more popular?
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>>79650467
The most bang-for-your-buck books would be Martial Arts and Powers since the former is relevant in any campaign that features combat and the latter greatly expands on advantages and modifiers.

After that, there's Thaumatology (Alternative Magic Systems: The Book), Action 2 (lots of fan-favorite rules for faster, more streamlined play), and various Power-Ups books (a large variety of rules expansions and alternatives).
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>>79650467
>My preferred books for historical, fantasy, and scifi?
In order:
Fantasy.
Powerups 8, 4, 1. Sorcery. Sensory powers. Powers.

SciFi
Powerups 8, 4, 1, sensory powers. Spaceships 1. Space. Ultra tech. Powers.

Historical
Low tech.


Real talk:
Grab everything in the trove. Figure out what stuff you would actually use. Buy that.
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>>79650611
>Some anon was a pretentious asshole on 4chan.
No that's not why.

>>79650542
Yeah, it has fuck all marketing.
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>>79650373
>>79650410
No offence, but "contradicts what the average Chinese person knows of Chinese history" might be a badge of honor.
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>>79649603
>Why is this game not more popular? I want to get my friends into this game instead of 5e
Personally I blame 3 things:
Lack of marketing: You don't really find advertisement for GURPS beyond word of mouth. D&D, on the other hand, is fucking EVERYWHERE. Mostly, IMO, this takes the form of a lack of podcasts or whatever like Critical Roll or The Adventure Zone or whatever the fuck the current one is, where to-be-players see the actors doing shennangians and go "I want to do those shennanigans as well!"
Lack of "easy walkthrough teaching" for non-Dungeon Fantasy (people who want to play Dungeons and Dragons-esque adventures and aren't already aware of GURPS are going to play Dungeons and Dragons).
Lack of an SRD: If you want to play D&D with someone, they don't need to buy the books, you can just tell them to hop onto the SRD and they can build their character. For GURPS, they also need a copy of the books or they need access to your copy, or they need to pirate. It's far more aggravating than a simple hop onto the SRD is.
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>>79650467
Powers is a good expansion of the advantages list from Basic, plus some good examples in there.
Martial Arts significantly expands melee combat and somewhat expands bow and thrown combat.
I wouldn't run a fantasy game without those two books.
Fantasy is good for inspiration and examples.
Thaumathology has some good inspirations on how to build various magic systems using the material you have in Basic and Powers.
Power-Ups is a series of booklets that expand your selection of things or gives you alternate rules for things. E.g. how to turn advantages into disadvantages, extra limitations, how to build an advantages that is like an opressive qi aura, etc.
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>>79650664
>not recognizing copy-pasta
That might actually be good for you.
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So let's say I want to make a metatronic generator that's an arm. The average arm is 25 inches in length, but only has a -2 penalty to hit it. Would an arm for a typical human be SM-3 or SM-2?
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>>79650883
If you want to make it an arm, you base the size on how much the "slottable" part weighs and how big it is, then you make the generator give "extra arm".
You only care about the size of an arm if you want to make the generator itself "arm sized".
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>>79650777
I had assumed Chinese American, not republic of China citizen, based on the fact it was an Amazon com review. But you're right, that's an assumption.

>>79650877
>Copypasta
I had assumed some douche said it in seriousness and it has since been trotted out as a believable example of what gurps players are like.
But yeah, I haven't seen that one before.

Though, fuck has that dungeon world shill copypasta ever put me off of playing dungeon world (on top of what I've seen looking similar to other games I didn't enjoy).
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>>79650883
>If a creature’s longest dimension falls between two entries on the table, base its SM on the higher value.
25" is just batrly larger than 2' (SM-3), so it falls in the up-to-3' category (SM-2).
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>>79651021
Thanks
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Quick question about GURPS. How fast is the combat compared to 5e?
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>>79651290
depends, I think level 1-4 is a bit faster in 5e, from level 5 though GURPS is either just as fast with a lot more detail or significantly faster than levels 11-20, also with a lot more detail.
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>>79651041
If you find that result not satisfactory, you wouldn't be the first person to derive the pattern of a table and stat up fractional size differences.

For instance, Worlds beyond earth did it for the spaceship rules.
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>>79651355 (checked)
Thanks for the response. I've been looking for another system for a while now since 5e as felt severely lacking in combat obtions and still slow at higher levels. I just hope I'll be able to convince the group to try a new system.
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>>79651290
Depends on your group a lot. I've found that players who were constantly agonizing over their moves in 5e tend to play a little faster in GURPS, even if resolution can sometimes take a bit longer.
A lot of that is your turn will almost never be complicated. There's very little "I have an action, a free action, a reaction, a move, multiple attacks with one or two of those, and also I have to factor out how my class features interact with the..."
You move. or you stab a guy. Or you just evaluate your target. The vast majority of turns are going to be "I move here." "I am at that guy." Does combat as a whole take more or less time? Depends. Do individual turns take less time? Almost fucking always.
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>>79651691
In my experience the easiest way to get a new game going with a group is to run a campaign of it (or run a 1shot with pregens).
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>>79651691
I actually just sat down with a lot of my current players and ran an example combat. Not even a one-shot. That was enough to sell a few of them. One of us could probably write up a simple example of some standard fantasy combat, if you want more details.
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>>79651789
I'd like to see that.
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>>79651896
Turn 1. We have Kare Bjornson, a PC from one of my games. 210 Points of Viking warrior.
Across from him are a few goblins.
We can't move and attack without a notable penalty, only step one space. And Our Goblin friends are 4 hexes away. Kare will step forward and declare an Evaluate against the top gobbo, giving him +1 to hit it later. One goblin steps forward andthe other tries to run around behind him. On to turn 2.
Kare Can't see that goblin and that's bad. He'll step against the one he evaluated, and turn to get his front to where he can see the little bastard. He'll then make use of his evaluate to strike. Kare has a very nice 16 for his axe skill, +1 for his evaluate, so he'll opt to reduce it by 4 for two steps of 'deceptive attack' penalizing the Goblin's defense by 2. His new TN is 13, which he rolls spot on. The goblin will attempt to dodge, retreating backwards a step to gain a +3 bonus. He had an 8, so this is a total of 9, with all the modifiers we've laid out. He rolls 13 and fails. Kare hits him.
Attacks hit the torso unless you either target something else or choose to hit a random location. Kare's player likes random locations, so let's roll with that. We roll an 11 and hit him in the groin. This gigantic ass viking man has an axe damage of 3d+2, which rolls us 14.
2 is absorbed by the goblins armor, and the remaining 12 becomes 'penetrating damage.' A cutting weapon does 1.5* damage as injury, so the goblin takes 18. It drops to -1x it's an entire HP total and makes three HT rolls. For knockdown. (For taking 50% or more its HP) For Consciousness (For falling to 0) and for death (For falling to -1x) Assuming it has HT 10, it makes the death and consciousness saves with a 9 and 10, but takes a -5 to knockdown for the hit to the groin, and fails with an 8. The goblin is knocked to the ground and stunned.
On its turn, it does nothing, then rolls HT to recover. It succeeds, but its turn has passed.
(Cont. for awhile.)
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>>79652516
The other goblin, seeing its friend laid low, runs into Kare's rear arc and makes a move and attack. This suffers a -4 penalty, and is capped at 9 regardless. Normally you can't defend from behind, but because Kare could see him do it, (from his front vision arc) His defense is at -2 instead of nothing. (This is a 'runaround attack'.) -4 from 12, the Goblin rolls an 8 and threatens to hit. Kare can't block this attack with his shield, even though it's 'from the side' because it's not his shield side. Nor does he get his Defense Bonus for the shield. So all he can do is dodge at an effective -4. He "Retreats forward" one hex to get this to -1. He Rolls a 9 and barely evades.
Pic is our boardstate at the end of Turn 2
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Let's say I wanted my right arm to be supernaturally durable and become the Iron Coomer. Could I buy HP but with the Partial limitation at -20%?
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>>79652535
Turn 3
Kare steps back up to the standing goblin and makes a -1 deceptive against his weapon arm. -2 tot arget, -2 deceptive attack, he makes it by 6. The Goblin again tries tod dodge. He Rolls an 8 and succeeds.
The downed Goblin pushes himself to his knees. because he's at the brink of death, he rolls HT-1 to see if he falls unconscious. He passes with an 8, and is now wobbling halfway upright.
The retreating goblin steps back forward and swings wildly. Kare Elects to block, but the goblin misses anyway.
Turn 4
Kare Stays put and makes the same attack again. The goblin, again, retreats, but Kare hasn't used his step yet, so follows him, pushing him back against the wall where he can't do that again.
Goblin one stands up and steps forward. And promptly fails his Ht roll and collapses from his gaping wound.
Goblin 2, backed into a corner, uses an all-out defense to prepare to get into a better position.
Pic is end turn 4
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>>79652516
>We can't move and attack without a notable penalty, only step one space
Keep in mind that there are (optional) rules that allow you to move and attack without getting the full penalties for Move And Attack:
>Extra Effort allows you to spend Fatigue for more advantageous maneuvers in combat.
>You can Slam with your Shield - rush at full speed and try to ram with the shield.
>You can Slam with your body if you feel like your army and size will make you take less damage than the enemy
>You can Tackle of Flying Tackle the target
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>>79652702
Aside: I am consistently forgetting the penalties for the Goblins small size and the bad lighting on this map.
Turn 5
Kare has had enough of this and makes an All-Out Atttack (Dobule). This is stupid, but for demonstration purposes. An AoA denies your ability to defend yourself afterwards. He Telegraphs a blow to the Goblin's face with his shield. Giving the Goblin a +2 to defend, but getting +4 to hit to offset the -5 for that hit location. He rolls a 4 and gets a critical success. The Goblin Can't defend against this hit. We roll 3d6 and consult the critical hit result table. 12: The opponent drops anything he's holding. The Goblin takes 5pts of crushing damage to the face. he makes an HT-5 check to avoid knockdown because of the blow to the face. Rolls a ten and fails. Is knocked down and stunned.
Kare's axe comes in. -4 For 2x Deceptive, he gets an 11 and strikes. The goblin's defense is at -2 For that, -4 for stunned, +2 for his AoD, and -3 for now being prone on the ground. -7 altogether. He critically fails this and takes 17 cutting to the...groin, again.
We go through the same lethal wound process as before, and the goblin dies on the spot at -2x his entire starting HP.
One last (cont)
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>>79653030
It's worth noting you have to state all of your intended maneuvers and their modifiers before you start rolling attacks, as I did nothing to make that clear. So Kare's big AOA double combat and everything about it has to be explained before you start.
Also that I probably flubbed the order of operations for the axe strike, since if the Goblin was at -4 to be hit for being on the ground at that point, and Kare would technically need to have crouched first to hit him at all with his short-handled axe. There are definitely certain things like that that take a while to remember, and I don't imagine anybody gets right every time without longer experience than I have.
Mistakes aside, I hope that at least gives you an impression of what the combat is like, at least for typical melee fantasy adventurers.
>>79652867
All great additions, thanks for assisting. I wasn't sure how crazy to go with weird maneuvers. Shield slams are what this guy's made for, but typing out the process for determining slam damage seemed like it may be a bit much for a first explanation.
EE's good shit but it radically changes certain things. I'd suggest its use with caution, especially Heroic charge. (We houseruled that to only remove the cap, not the penalty, since otherwise, it was basically "Better AoA Determined but you can defend.")
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>>79652564
Something like that is probably better represented by ablative DR to the right arm and hand only.
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>>79653460
Dang, good point.
>>
I want to play a Mystic Knight/Archer in a future DF game, but I've seen plenty of people say that Imbuement is overpriced and underpowered. One post in a previous /GURPSgen/ thread recommended combining Imbue and Eldritch Talent into a single advantage, and price it like Magery (5 points for basic Imbue, 10 points for each level). Has anyone tried using this, and did it work?
>>
>>79655344
For my game what we're doing is Imbue gives you a free point of energy reserve for itself for every 5pts you paid for it.
Also most characters have it with a limitation of some sort, in our cases gadget for their signature weapon, but if you're playing a game where weapon upgrades are common you may not want to go that route. Though "You can have the smith do stuff to it," has been our partial solution to that.
My own character that uses it just has Telescope, Guided, and Shattershot for Spear/Thrown spear and carries a bunch of javelins, and even at that small level it's been incredibly useful.
>>
>Oh, I know! I'll post not one, but three patreon-paywalled blog post links on Discord!
>>
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>>79657036
>GURPS Discord
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>>79657036
Wait. Don't tell me.
>Chrissy Rice.
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>>79657036
Also yeah:
>>79657061
>Gurps discord
Is kindof a dump. Much like the FB group. In no small part because Chrissy Rice is an insufferable bratty child with a superiority complex.
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>>79657837
>>79657757
>>79657061
>>79657036
1. Block Christopher Rice.
2. Lurk and just use it for update notifications.
Done.
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>>79645771
Oh boy time to shill.
https://onlythepartsyouneed.blogspot.com/2020/05/gurps-alternate-melee-weapon-skills.html
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>>79649673
>one shota D ventures
This is a blue board you sick fuck.
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>>79658632
New video when?
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>>79658656
Soon. I've got a partially done script on racial templates. I'm considering not sticking right to the script either. I think I might speak better when not just straight up reading.
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>>79653460
>>79653581
Reminder that in the latest GCS you can actually apply DR to limbs separately if you modify the hit locations.
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>>79658680
Egg-chan, no offense but you better stick to reading.
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>>79659511
Ouch. But I'm not Eggplant.
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>>79659516
Then go ahead and talk spontaneously. I think you should find another host to make discussions possible.
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>>79658632
>no mention of Spear, Polearm, etc.
The article should explicitly mention that no changes are made to those skills.
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>>79660383
Weird, thought I at least mentioned polearm, but yeah. Updated.
>>
where can I found 1st ed. books 1 and 2 + Man to Man in good quality for free ?
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>>79661978
Check the OP pic
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>>79653070
AoA Determined gives you +4 to the attack;
Heroic Charge is better compared to Committed Attack's ability to make 2 steps for a penalty to defences.

If it seems too strong, especially when compared to other Extra Effort, you could just give it a greater FP cost, or a 1FP cost for every special effect.
Which makes me think about a detailed Technical Effort system, where spending FP lets you buy multiple special effects and piecing them together so you can do a charging lunge mighty blow and then drop from exhaustion.
>>
>>79659511
No, not really.
They should stick to writing and get someone else to be the voice of the videos. Several threads ago we got several volunteers with much better voices.
Or they could get the guy doing Foundry GURPS videos, his voice is an amazing fit for GURPS stuff.
>>
I don't quite understand it. When using the Deadly Spring, how do you calculate Bow-Pha?
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>>79662354
Chris Normand?
Yeah he's solid. Very good trim on his audio, simple format, casual conversational description
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>>79662862
We could also invite Alice that Chris has been living next door to for 24 years.
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>>79647823
What module are you using to model GURPS facing rules in foundry?
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>>79649679
You can host foundry on a Raspberry Pi.
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>>79651008
>dungeon world shill copypasta
?
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>>79663785
None. I just made a token border for it, provided here. If you mean the vision you just need to restrict the angle to 180 and vertically mirror the token.
>>79662338
>AoA Determined gives you +4 to the attack;
I understand, but MaA is a -4 modifier. So the effective bonus to hit of AoA:D and Heroic is the same. And heroic lets you ignore a penalty, and still defend also. I think it makes more sense to simply change its utility to be more sane, rather than make it cost more, because it allows you to functionally do something you shouldn't be able to do, at least in my group's collective opinion.
"Make it cost more," is not the answer to a capability that drastically, drastically alters the calculus of the entire movement in combat mechanics to that degree. Because that's ultimately the problem. It makes the tactical combat considerably less tactical for anyone with the FP to spend, because it's too optimal to not be doing, action economy-wise.
>Letting the players chain extra efforts
That might be 'cool' but I think it damages too many things.Combat EE in general already causes a shitload of problems at low TL, we've been finding. (MB makes most RAW armor useless, Giant Step makes facing broken, etc etc) And I get that's at least sort of the point, but I think a lot of them are a little overdone, even if I like the concept.
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>>79662483
What's Bow-Pha? I can't find that term in the article.
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>>79665574
Anon, no...
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>>79665001
>MB makes most RAW armor useless, Giant Step makes facing broken
How and why is +2 to damage making armor useless?
How and why is a single extra step making facing broken?

>"Make it cost more," is not the answer to a capability that drastically, drastically alters the calculus of the entire movement
Even outside the context of FP and how punishing fatigue can be, just slapping a large cost on something will limit how often it can be used. If you feel like Heroic Charge is too good, just doubling it's costs will halve how many uses of it you would see.
Of course, if you feel it's actually broken, sure - no amount of cost increase will change that.
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>>79665001
Theres also a hex token in the same vein if anyone wants it,
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>>79645268
How would you go about running something like pic related in GURPS? Not necessarily in the AoS setting, but rather an adventure where the PCs are various flavors of undead. How you balance out the points totals of all the different undead types?
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>>79666403
>How and why is +2 to damage making armor useless?
This is specifically an issue of low-tech armor where the numbers are too tight to begin with, and in many cases, +2 is removing from 50% to all of an armor's effectiveness before damage is even rolled. Though official low tech armor has this problem of being close to useless against peer threats in fantastic games anyway. I've found moving to Better Fantasy Armor has alleviated this to some degree in both cases.
>How and why is a single extra step making facing broken?
This allows you to step from the front hexside directly into the side, penalizing your opponent's defense at no recourse from his strongest possible positioning. It's a serious dynamic change to how facing in a fight is considered. And as positioning considerations are the strongest aspect of GURPS tactical melee combat, that should, in my mind, be regarded with suspicion.

Perhaps I shouldn't say these things are 'broken.' That's probably a vast overstatement. What I mean is that they are drastically dynamic-altering in ways I, at least, am not the biggest fan of as they stand. If the enemy can just spend an FP to ignore your attention to positioning, to almost ignore your armor, it makes these preparations far less important.
>Even outside the context of FP and how punishing fatigue can be, just slapping a large cost on something will limit how often it can be used
I understand that, yes, but I find 'fudge the costing around,' to be the laziest possible way to attempt to balance things in a game design sense. This is more a matter of taste/opinion than anything, that I concede.
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>>79666403
NTA, but Heroic Charge is definitely busted. It really does do way the fuck too much, more than even the other EE options.

The others, +2 is actually quite a lot of damage, especially cutting. That's the difference between severing an arm or not. That +2 turns to another 3 injury, If you can get that +2 past chest armor then that's SIX damage to the vitals or to the head, eight. That's a shitload of difference in low tech games. Increasing max damage is just so much for a single FP, which doesn't penalize you in the moment, you have to spend a bunch.

After thinking about it for a moment I think that making Mighty Blows reroll 1s being a good idea. I think this is a decent ruling::
Extra Effort: Mighty Blows allows spending FP to reroll damage dice. You can declare it after hitting to reroll ones, or before hitting to reroll 1s and 2s.
This makes it still quite useful, because you can use it when you need to make sure your damage roll isn't awful.

>>79666545
Make undead racial templates of roughly equal point value? Where are you encountering difficulty?
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>>79662338
>Heroic Charge is better compared to Committed Attack's ability to make 2 steps for a penalty to defences.
>>79665001
>And heroic lets you ignore a penalty, and still defend also.
Kinda. It's still a Move and Attack maneuver, you don't get to parry with the weapon you used to attack. No retreat either.
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>>79666545
>How you balance out the points totals of all the different undead types?
Make a racial template for each of the races, then give buffs to the weaker ones until they're all equal.
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>>79666545
If I understand your question, it’s the same way you balance powerful and less powerful races: give the players a points budget and let them choose how to spend it. If they spend 150 points on their racial template and leave only 100 for personal abilities, they should still be in the same ballpark of ability as someone that spent 20 points on a racial template and 230 on personal abilities.
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>>79664625
>Shut the fuck up. Dungeon World takes Vincent Baker's fledgling idea and turns it into a true system using mechanics from the most popular RPG of all time. Dungeon World is an actual evolution in roleplaying games. It is UNEQUALED in its quality as a beginner's game, and for play much later on.

>Last session in Dungeon World my human fighter wrapped a vampire in a bear hug and wrestled him out a window. This is real roleplaying we're talking about here, not babby 3.5 shit. Can you say the same about your AD&D games? Or any of the other shitty dungeon crawlers you are shilling in this thread?
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Page 10 bump.
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>>79669504
Sorry. That one was incomplete

> OP what you want is Dungeon World

> It's pretty much objectively one of the best currently out there. It has fast easy to use mechsnics and is perfect for beginners, it's a lot cheaper than most of these other rules bloated systems that cost fifty dollars. There is no reason for extra rules when it is he role playing that matters. Dungeon World is fast and innovative and still feels exactly like the spirit of ADND before DnD 3.5 destroyed the hobby and ruined a generation of role players.

> You want fast, intuitive combat? Dungeon World does that.

> You want real, deep roleplaying mechanics? Dungeon World does that.

> You want great mechanics that reward diversity of play? Dungeon World does that as well.

> My last session of Dungeon World my human fighter wrapped a vampire in a bear hug and wrestled him out a window. This is real roleplaying we are talking about here, not babby 3.5 shit. Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of Dungeon World today, it is an evolution and perfection of the half-formed ideas in Apocalypse World (the game it is derived from)
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>>79669588
>You want fast, intuitive combat?
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In a sci-fi or cyberpunk game with massive public databases, what's a good default time to research a given topic? Back to School has finding relevant resources an info in an online database take 20 minutes, so in lieu of a better number I'll be going with that, but I'm curious if there are other times listed elsewhere.
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>>79669507
>Aristocracy is archaic
>But mob rule is not
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>>79671156
I found nothing. High-Tech deals with fees of specialized software for skill bonuses, Monster-Hunters 2 has very simplistic rules for it.
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>>79671156
I'd probably reduce the time by MOS minutes or something, in a cyberpunk game. Or cut it in half or more if you pre-load an assistant AI with the query. Depends on tone, I guess.
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>>79671690
I'm embarrassed to admit I forgot about MH's investigation rules entirely. I may or may not use the hour-long search attempts, but I'll definitely make use of the investigation rules in general since they're my favorite part of MH.

Also diving into Pyramid, there are some interesting ideas like using Invention rules for stuff like this, with harder, more in-depth questions being treated as more complex inventions. It's a bit weird, but it might be useful too.

>>79671697
I'm working on adapting some templates from a cyberpunk game, and the template's shtick is that they have a superhuman level of training in (among other things) data organization and data analysis. To avoid stepping on the lens's niche, I think everyone will be more-or-less stuck at the default time unless they have the lens's special technique that buys off penalties for haste (or specialized Quick Gadgeteer if I'm using the Invention-based rules).
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>>79672208
That's fair. I don't think it does overmuch since in a cyberpunk future I imagine 'finding information is the easy part. Finding the right information, cross-referencing it to make sure, sorting out junk data and propaganda, that's what you need the specialist for.
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>>79672242
That's a really good point. I might be too focused on bringing over the mechanics of the template rather than making it playable and sensible. I'm sure I'll waffle back and forth on this a dozen times regardless.
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>>79671156
Realistically, there's a huge amount of variation depending on the nature of the research. Finding data (which isn't always easy even with computer assistance) is only part of the issue; real research usually means learning enough about the subject to have a chance of judging the quality of information, whether it is biased, untrue, incomplete, misleading, over-simplified, etc. Almost anything intended for consumption by the general public has a good chance of being completely useless. As an example, using a topic I'm somewhat knowledgeable about, the entire history of Europe's conversion from paganism to Christianity, European folk-beliefs about magic, European witch-trials, etc. has been subject to a sustained misinformation campaign by kooky neo-pagans for over a century, with huge amounts of apparently 'reliable' information hopelessly contaminated by them. Even the Encyclopedia Britannica had it's entry on witchcraft written by pseudo-historian Margaret Murray. Because the actual facts we know about many pre-Christian belief systems could barely fill a post-it note, the vast majority of writing on the subject is wild speculation. A normal person looking at the information would generally assume that the hundreds of books of nonsense were actually the mainstream historical consensus and completely overlook the absence of books backed by actual evidence, because things which don't exist are pretty easy to miss.
As far as I can tell, basically every subject is just as bad. People generally care a lot more about pushing their agendas than providing accurate information and writing fiction is inherently easier than doing actual research.
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GURPS can simulate much, but can it simulate how frequently my character needs to use the restroom?
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>>79665574
Bow-Pha deez nuts
Sorry, I was asleep.
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>>79673264
Ahahahahaha (unironically) ahahahaha got em!
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>>79672569
It's always a laugh telling Odinists the only reason their "religion" exists is because a bunch of Christian monks decided to write up a mythos based on the scraps of information they had.
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>>79672569
I guess that's why Research is its own skill and separate from the Computer Use it takes to just Google something. Maybe MH's hour is more accurate; it already includes the amount of time required to separate useful info from bullshit, and BtS's 20 minutes assumes you're looking up learning tools in a legitimate archive, which you can (usually) assume is legit without a lengthy vetting process, instead of just typing something into your browser's search bar.
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>>79649603
Mind if I ask what got you interested in GURPS?
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Is there any disadvantage for someone who has screwed the character over in the past but doesn't seek to kill him anymore?
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>>79676217
If it doesn’t have a direct gameplay effect, it’s a 0-point feature; you’re basically just giving the GM a potential plot hook by introducing an NPC as a part of your back story.
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How would one go about statting up a breath attack that works something akin to a ghast's stench? Affliction? Innate Attack? Would stunning or nauseated affliction make more sense?
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>>79675537
Not that guy, but I'm pretty new to GURPs myself.

My interest in gurps came from me not liking d&d for non d&d things, and not liking most of the other games I looked into before I came across gurps.
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>>79676695
>Stench: Affliction 1 (HT; Always On, -20%; Area Effect, 4 yards, +100%; Aura, +80%; Nauseated, +30%; Respiratory Agent, +50%) [34].
From "Ghast"
>https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com/2018/11/monsters-ghouls.html?m=1
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>>79676695
Affliction (Nauseated) would be a good starting place. As for what to add to that, you have multiple options.

By default, Affliction works like a missile spell, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a breath attack. Jet would give you a reasonable range, though if you want the stench to hang around, you'll need Cone and Persistent. The second is much more expensive but can catch multiple people in an area and will stop others from entering the area for a time, which can be very useful.

You'll also need some sort of penetration modifier since a breastplate shouldn't help protect you against bad smell. Sense-Based (Smell) for +150% is the rules-as-written answer, since Respiratory Agent requires that it be an Innate Attack that deals toxic or fatigue damage, but ultimately it's up to the GM. Honestly it's weird how much more expensive Sense-Based is than Respiratory Agent.

The skunk spray from Furries has Retching as a secondary effect for +10%, with the reasoning that failing the resistance roll by 5 or more represents getting caught in a direct blast, getting some in your mouth, or other similar nastiness. That makes sense for this attack as well.
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>>79677018
I think sense-based is so much more expensive rather than respiratory agent is because it's implied you're able to reach much larger areas and number of those affected.
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>>79677018
I know it's off label, but what about applying limited arc to an aura?

Do like >>79676875, ditch the always on, add the limited arc 60° limitation from sensory powers, and call it a day?
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>>79677018
>Sense based (smell)
I was going to point out that something undead, like a vampire, can smell, but doesn't breathe.

But they're also probably immune to the effect, and they could also just choose not to smell since they don't need to breathe.
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>>79677134
I'm not so sure since attacks meant to affect multiple targets still need to have Area i.e. the Flash ability form Powers has both Area Effect (16 yards) and Sense-Based (Vision).

Cosmic (Ignores DR) lets you bypass armor at all times for +300%, and Sense-Based lets you bypass armor as long as your victim doesn't have special defenses/gear or forewarning. Those make sense, more or less. Respiratory Agent is the weird one since it has to same requirement for being effective as Sense-Based but is 1/3 the cost. The only difference is that it has to be Toxic/Fatigue damage (or an Affliction, I missed that the first time, my bad) and be a AoE, Cone, or Jet. It's just weird.

Maybe it's because No Sense of Smell/Taste is a disadvantage that protects against Sense-Based (Smell), but Respiratory Agent requires advantages or gear for immunity? That shouldn't warrant such a steep price reduction though.

>>79677189
Oh, so it's like a constant breath thing rather than a discrete attack? I suppose it could work, but if you want it to go further than Reach C you need to add the pretty expensive Area Effect enhancement.
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>>79677708
I'm not >>79676695, I just figured making an aura switchable and limited arc would make it an unlimited use breath weapon, and wanted to see if I understood the rules correctly.
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Thanks everyone, those ideas were helpful, I have a good sense of how to do it now.
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How much would a limiation on a horde of Allies cost, that basically limits their size based on Magery (or an equivalent) be worth? Something like 5 x Magery rank.
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>>79679267
I believe the typical way of doing it would be to use the Thaumatology Sorcery rules, which iirc reduce the cost by 80%, but require the point total of the ability before that 80% reduction not exceed the point total of your Sorcery Advantage.
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>>79679522
An interesting idea, but wouldn't that make them unable to use Magery while the ally group is active?
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FLGS has a bunch of old 1e/2e GURPS saucebooks/modules being sold on the cheap. Can I use any of this stuff in 4th edition or is it a no go? (Pic very much related.)
>>
Eggplant's GURPS Book Tier List
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdyskO2bEBY
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>>79648125
You can set field of view in Roll20 now too. The new dynamic lighting + explore mode really isn't that bad, though sometimes it can be confusing realizing why one person can't see shit. (In that case: He couldn't see shit, it was a dark room and he was the only person without an ability to see in the dark.)
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>>79680723
The mechanics should be easy enough to update since GURPS hasn’t changed *that* much since inception, but IMO the coolest parts about older splats are system agnostic: the detailed background info and well-researched fluff are the reasons you pick them up.
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>>79679546
Yeah, that’s on purpose. A horde of zombies (or summoned spirits, or whatever) is a powerful tool and letting the mage cast spells on top of directing such a horde is a recipe for an overshadowed party.

High mana zones, which let you cast spells without Magery, would be your primo action zone though.
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>>79680723
A lot of old 2e and 3e books are suitable for use with any game system, usually the ones that are focused on setting and genre advice.
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>>79645268
How would you make a power that causes the sky in the local area to become cloudy and dark? Control seems a bit of an overkill for something like this.
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>>79682885
Obscure (Vision) 1 with lots of area effect, extra range, and limitations so it only works a long way above you?
>>79679267
That isn't a meaningful limitation unless your magery level can be reduced easily. If you can only summon 15 Allies, just buy an Ally Group that size.
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>>79650467
artist?
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>>79679267
Nothing. You don't get a point reduction for only being able to buy as many allies as you bought. If you want a limitation for summoned allies, I'd consider something like a trigger. (eg, corpses, for undead.)
>>79680970
That's cool. That all still premium stuff though? I'd just as soon buy Foundry once and get all the automation and stuff that comes with the fan GURPS module to boot.
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>>79683197
Thanks, the Obscure thing was actually exactly what I was looking for. And its only about 13 CP.
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>>79684130
He could maybe limit it based on ER available, as an accessibility limitation.

But yeah. Capping it at magery isn't really something worth a point break.
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>>79680723
I know anons took a dump on GURPS China earlier, but I still gotta say that Robin Hood is shit too. The better books are the historical sourcebooks, GURPS Robin Hood is 10 pages of the classic tale and then made up genre crossovers.
>>
Thinking about running a game set during the Roman Empire, any suggestions as to what the campaign premise should be? I was of either thinking of making them Praetorian Guards going around quashing insurrections or agents sent by (insert Governor here) on missions to maintain Roman rule in the provinces.
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>>79686460
I'd go with the latter, but expand the governor's goals beyond maintaining Rome's power. Adding in legitimate peacekeeping in the provinces (like taking out dangerous bandits, investigating mysterious crimes, and thwarting foreign raiders) and political skullduggery (like finding or planting evidence on a rival, ferrying letters to and fro from a chosen mistress, etc.) will give you a much wider array of adventures and should keep the game from getting stale after putting down the 15th peasant rebellion in a row.

Also playing as a group of a powerful person's "close and trusted friends" will give players more freedom than being part of a legitimate military organization.
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>>79686460
Are you thinking doing it realistic or cinematic?
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>>79650801
>SRD
(Lack of) Marketing is obviously a big part of the GURPS struggle, but the absence of an SRD and the general inability to *publish* stuff for GURPS without needing to tangle with SJGames licensing and legalese is such a pain in the ass. I swear that the OGL and the SRD for D&D is one of *the* strongest pillars which led to an explosion of content and interest in the game. It frustrates me that SJGames didn't figure that out.
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>>79687725
I think what I'll do then it make them the agents of one of the governors that IRL both tried to do his job well and went against the will of a bad emperor. That way they can do low level bandit killing and political intrigue before advancing to high stakes "we're marching on Rome" type stuff.

>>79688934
I'm gonna go it mostly realistic but with the caveat that I'll give the PCs much more opportunity to affect things politically than they would have IRL. The one thing I might tweak is the healing rate since the early TLs having very little actual medicine might bog the campaign down quite a bit.
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>>79693016
>The one thing I might tweak is the healing rate since the early TLs having very little actual medicine might bog the campaign down quite a bit.
You could require everyone take Very Rapid Healing (or even give it for free). The rewritten version from DFRPG increases the rate of healing from all sources, not just natural healing over time; getting patched up for 2d-6 (minimum 2) after every combat will be nice, and the +5 to avoid lasting crippling injuries is a must regardless.
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>>79690975
D&D had the existing market share to take the 'risk' on being more open with their IP. More niche game publishers are rather fearful that if tehy give away too much for free, what little they have will disappear. Are they right? Probably not, but that's the thinking I've observed.
It also doesn't help their business/marketing is usually by people who've been doing it since the 80's and haven't moved on.
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>>79693987
>>79690975
SJG still has scars from getting raided by the Secret Service. They definitely are not going to take any risks.
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>>79694340
It's understandable, but if the situation's deteriorating and you won't take risks, that's sort of just that.
>>
The great thing about GURPS is that SJG is heavy into the digital market and the game will be there to discover for years to come. And that's the great thing about tabletop games, they can be played as is for ever and homebrewed indefinitely as well. At the end of the day, it's just rules.
>>
bump
>>
For the pact limitation should you just use the base cost of the disadvantages used in it or should you use the cost after things like self control roll and other modifiers. The way I see it it doesn't matter how hard or easy it is to make your self control roll if you've gone against your disadvantage then you've broken your pact. Also are the disadvantages listed on pg121 of basic set the only self imposed mental disadvantages? Does that mean that Pacifism isn't self imposed? Because I'd definitely think a lot of the levels of Pacifism are self imposed.
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>>79697740
Pact by default doesn't work with disadvantages with Self-Control Rolls. For something that is similar to such a disadvantage, use an appropriate Vow or similar; a god of fire that demands its followers light fires at every opportunity means that his faithful have a Great Vow, not that they have a mental compulsion towards committing arson (though such a person would fit right in among them, and for outsiders the difference between Pyromania and Vow (Light all the fires) is purely academic).

I feel that Pacifism as written in Basic is closer to a mental compulsion than a self-imposed disadvantage. RAW, someone with Pacifism cannot pull the trigger unless their specific conditions are met, which to me implies something deeper than a simple desire to not do harm. I'd say just use Vow, Code of Honor, or Sense of Duty to represent someone with a capacity for violence but consciously avoids it.
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>>79697995
>pact doesn't work with self control rolls
but honesty is listed as a self imposed disadvantage. Does that mean honesty shouldn't be used with pact?
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>>79698225
Honesty is a weird bit from earlier editions that combines Code of Honor, Gullible, and minor Vow to make up for whatever lawbreaking you do, all bundled together and given a self-control number that does not seem to be universally applied to all aspects of the disadvantage. It’s not something I’d ever recommend extrapolating general rules from.
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In RPM, if you wanted to create a sort of immobile magical turret essentially, would you use a custom attack, or the summoned modifier?
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Does anyone have Wild Magic tables or anything similar for GURPS? I've got the table from Pyramid Dungeon Collection, but I'm looking for alternatives.
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>>79699610
Threshold Limited Magic from Thaumatology (pp. 76-82) is the standard 'totally overpowered but risky' GURPS magic system, with a big table of potential problems.
If you just want more variety in tables of random magical problems, try the alternative critical failure tables (Thaumatology Appendix B, pp. 256-260).
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>>79699785
Hmm, I'm more after the D&D Sorcerer Wild Magic idea. There's a whole lot of positives, neutrals and negatives, and come into effect when doing the equivalent of Extra Effort or instead of charging FP to use.
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>>79698659
Do whatever is easier. Sounds to me like a summoned ally first.

If this is craftable and replicatable only by resources, maybe it's just crafting and gadgeteering
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>>79694340
>scars
What? You mean in legal fees or some crap? I don't follow

>>79693987
>are they right?
Nope. I've seen more indie houses publish SRDs in the last several years than ever, and those rpgs are highly lauded and ported and discussed as a result. FATE not so much, but Blades in the Dark (to which I'm biased because it's well written) has had a surprising number of hacks based on its SRD. The staggering flood of OSR material mostly exists because of the OGL. Anecdotally, the only systems I've seen of late which don't have some variety of SRD and open license end up being incredibly niche and don't get discussed very much. Even fucking Mutant Year Zero's engine is OGL.

GURPS Lite would be enough, if that was it for OGL or SRD material. It's already freely distributable, just being able to publish material for the system and say out loud that it is material designed to be compatible with GURPS, even if it's not from SJGames, would be better. Every fan-work exists in this kind of liminal amateur passion-project zone; probably hosted only as a series of pdfs, or blogposts, probably not with any kind of notable art, not really centrally located or searchable like DM's Guild or DriveThru stuffs.

Would it open the door to low-quality works bearing the GURPS name? Sure, it might, but every fucking week there's somebody posting new homebrew rules for B/X for sale, for money, and people discussing hacking lo-fi OSR systems and PbtA. PbtA lives rent-free in /tg/'s head, and I can't think of a single PbtA system I've seen actual marketing for. And those design families have a lot of discussion about what is good and what is bad and who is a reputable designer, and who has good art.

GURPS' branding is associated variously with a) extremely-high quality writing in books, b) autistic detail and c) "but it's not balanced!1!" and other such confusion. Certainly it's not associated with accessibility or for aesthetic or nice art.
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>>79703135
> What? You mean in legal fees or some crap? I don't follow
The raid disrupted everything and even had computers confiscated containing the books they were working on. It was a lot worse than some legal fee considering it almost killed the company.
>>
>>79704482
It was thirty years ago. Any scars they may have are long gone.
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>>79704701
>lol So you were part of an illegal raid by your government's security forces, walk it off lol
Bro that's life-defining shit.
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>>79704482
>it almost killed the company.
It kinda saved them, they were close to bankruptcy but then they won 300k from the cops.
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>>79703135
>just being able to publish material for the system and say out loud that it is material designed to be compatible with GURPS, even if it's not from SJGames, would be better.
Are there books out there that are compatible with GURPS that aren't licensed with SJG? Would that even be legal?
>>
I recently grabbed the basic set, and yesterday i created a couple of characters. Got my friend and tried out playing a little combat in a medieval combat and modern sneaking in and hacking and shootouts and a car chase. This system seems to be pretty easy and fast to play. Only the character creation seems pretty daunting at first, and i guess the combat might feel fiddly in the beginning, but seems pretty intuitive and fun, and fast.

Somehow despite the reputation, this game seems to be easier to play than dungeons and dragons
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>>79704723
ntayrt, but that's kind of a disingenuous read of their take, however myopic it may be.

Granted, this is a cursory overview from wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games%2C_Inc._v._United_States_Secret_Service) but it looks like the company was better off after the raid because of Steve's renewed involvement and the successful suit of the cops, which lines up with >>79704921 . From their own account (http://www.sjgames.com/SS/), although it was a devastating interruption to business *three decades ago*, the hardware and files were returned with the exception of the Cyberpunk stuff.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that SJGames "walk it off", but the "scarring" should not practically affect them in [current year], so much later.

Maybe, possibly, it could be, unlikely though it may sound... that it's just not managed very well on the whole. They make short-sighted decisions about products which are currently evergreen and cheap to iterate on (Munchkin) or that nobody seems to have actually asked for (Novelty D6s? What the fuck?). Their kickstarters have often felt... poorly organized when it comes to backerkit and availability after the fact, and feel like a last-ditch effort to make stuff happen when they aren't confident in it, but literally most of their *best* shit the last few years have been kickstarters. I backed Random Fun Generator, for instance, and it's so well produced. TFT's availability has felt... inaccessible and confused, with so few a la carte purchasing options.

>>79705182
Right! I don't know if it's legal or not. DCole has a license with them to make Dungeon Fantasy RPG stuff, but I don't know if literally anything else of that ilk exists. The state of many fan-made computer aids is often in this liminal "it is permitted to exist" territory, like the VTT plugins and GCS, etc. Very certainly there are no vidya which publicly proclaim to be based on GURPS.
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>>79705182
>Would that even be legal?
Using the GURPS name and any associated trademarks, or any content from the books, would likely be illegal. But you can't actually copyright the underlying mechanical systems behind GURPS (it's one of the reasons the d20 SRD even exists - there's no legal grounds to stop one existing, so WotC might as well control it.)

So, one could hypothetically create content that is compatible with GURPS and sell it. But actually advertising it as compatible with GURPS is probably a legal minefield.
>>
>>79705182
I'm pretty sure some BTRC stuff has rules for converting between their systems and GURPS and as far as I know there was no special license needed. If I understand it right, you can't claim game mechanics as intellectual property, so there's nothing preventing you from publishing stuff which uses someone else's mechanics; you just can't publish the text from their books.
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>>79705291
>They make short-sighted decisions about products
Honestly, I think SJG has the same problem as Bethesda. They're a small company that won a lawsuit, recieved a massive shot in the arm of cash, and have been catapaulted far ahead of where they'd have otherwise landed as a result. Once you get a hit of money that big, it's really hard to fail - so they'll just keep floundering around with a bunch of oddly disappointing successes.
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>>79706161
>any content from the books
Even this is hard to argue unless you're literally copying and pasting. You could easily have a system with the same advantages and disadvantages, just reworded.
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>>79706453
Your statement seems to imply that they had a major upshot of cash from lawsuits, but I disagree. Bethsoft had been, for several years, riding the continued cash flow from Skyrim and its re-releases. SJGames' major financial leg in the last couple decades has almost certainly been munchkin. In a twist of irony, I believe that munchkin proper is only as popular as it is because of the D&D 3e's popularity by way of marketing and the glut of 3rd party OGL shit. Various niche munchkin spinoffs like Cthulhu, Bites, etc seemed to survive and/or succeed because of the rise in geek culture on the internet in the mid 00s.

>>79706581
SJGames is litigious/controlling enough that I don't think they'd take kindly to a "totally not GURPS we promise" system.

>>79706222
You're only partially correct that you can't claim game mechanics as intellectual property. Much like other procedures, like pure-math abstractions of algorithms, you can't copyright the mechanics. But you *can* patent them. This has happened a few times with vidya, even when it's pretty fuckin' abstract, but I'm not sure any such procedure-patents have been applied to TTRPGs. However, in source code litigation, where the argument can be made that the literal language describing the procedure is hard to distinguish from the original material, arguments have been made in the past (rightly or wrongly, success irrelevant to the example) that because the offender saw the closed-source code, theirs is somehow tainted. I hate US copyright law, dude, it's so fucking dumb about this shit.
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>>79706915
>Bethsoft had been, for several years, riding the continued cash flow from Skyrim
Much earlier than Skyrim. EA games stole code from Bethesda's Gridiron. There was a big lawsuit, and they settled under 'undisclosed terms.' Bethesda walked away from the lawsuit and promptly fucking spawned an entire publishing house (Zenimax) from the fat stacks they ripped out of EA. That paved the way for the little successes of the Elder Scrolls games, and eventually the big success of Skyrim - but they never really reoriented out of their 'little studio' ways, and little studio mindsets building big ambitious RPG products leads to the kind of buggy clusterfucks they're now legendary for.
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>>79706915
>I don't think they'd take kindly to a "totally not GURPS we promise" system.
I don't think they have a choice in the matter, because you can't copyright a game mechanic. If I called Combat Reflexes "Hyperfocus" and rephrased it, they legally can't do shit. Zweihander is a good example of this. It's 100% a copied version of WFRP, but with enough wording changed that it's legally distinct.
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>>79706950
Thanks for the historical context correction. I wasn't familiar with that lawsuit or that chronology.
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>>79706967
They still have more money and legal resources than an indie publisher or fan-clone writer. Even if they would lose such a suit in the end, they could still mire the individual in enough shit, and it's easy enough to fuck up the legalese around copyright, that it becomes part of the barrier.

In the end, the perceived difficulty is the problem, more than the actual difficulty, of navigating a closed-license for publishing. With SRDs and the OGL it's very easy to understand where an individual wanting to publish their material stands. It also broadly lets them make gestures that their stuff is "compatible with the world's most popular roleplaying game", etc. (That, it seems, is primarily because the actual trademark "Dungeons and Dragons" is not allowed; Old School Essentials is much more clear-cut on being allowed to use that trademark if you follow the license correctly, likewise Mork Borg that Phil Reed has made some shit for)

Difficulty of publishing with SJGames directly seems primarily to be bottlenecked on editing staff and/or willingness to put their name on the ideas. But if I want to just quietly work on a thing and use it at my table, and self-publish as GURPS-compatible when material is ready, which I'm willing to bet is the case for most hobbyists who don't want to try to make professionally writing their material a whole-ass second job, the unclear opportunities with SJGames presents a psychological barrier from the start.

The natural bestiary, which is cool as fuck, is probably doomed to remain an anonymous fan-work. Which is a fucking shame, because GURPS 4e is very sorely lacking comprehensive monster manuals and such. The glut of official stuff mostly takes the form of rules and catalogs, not playable material. The absence of even something like an adventure license, which I saw mentioned a few times on the forums, obfuscates the ability to write something meant to be consumed, for free let alone for money, by other users.
>>
Is there really a substantial amount of authors that would write third party content for GURPS? I don't think there would even be more than three people willing to pay for it.
I'm not saying all hail 90s forums SJG, but I don't think the lack of open license is a problem at all.
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>>79707222
>The absence of even something like an adventure license, which I saw mentioned a few times on the forums, obfuscates the ability to write something meant to be consumed, for free let alone for money, by other users.
You are absolutely allowed to publish GURPS adventures for free and SJG doesn't make it complicated to do, granting clear and explicit permission in their online policy.
Getting paid for it is much more complicated, but to be honest, if it is good enough to earn significant money, it's probably good enough to sell to SJG, who will take care of editing, layout, and all the tedious shit which actually stops most of my projects ever getting finished.
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>>79708400
>publish adventures for free
"Publish" in this context usually implies something different from "disseminate your creative work for free". The point of that statement still remains: their online policy is obscure and the paragraph about publishing adventures and scenarios is unhelpful. I do *not* mean that it's impossible, but that the absence of a license specifically to that effect obfuscates the ability. Very certainly, it's not as clear as OGL.

The inability to publish something designed for GURPS for money without needing to go through SJGames, and then probably just have it languish on e23 makes this not an attractive option. Given SJGames' spotty history with working with others, and their controlling nature, the only reason why I'd want to go through them to publish is to get the editing, layout, and tedious shit handled professionally by *them* specifically.

I know, right now, that I could publish a dungeon or an adventure or a bestiary or a rules supplement designed for Old School Essentials and get paid for it. I could, should I be insane enough, launch yet another Mork Borg or 5e D&D or DCC etc etc zine kickstarter. The OSR space has seen loads of innovation and creativity in cartography and layout and editing and art, and the only GURPS products to shake that up in any way have been the DFRPG stuff and DCole's licensed stuff. And loyalists see the borderline fearful control of GURPS licensing as a *good* thing, because even though it means that the company is not attractive or simple to work with, and it obviously stifles creativity and innovation and independent thought, it keeps up the all-important quality.

A huge, understated strength of the OGL and various open licensing schemes is to not be bound to the whims of the company, and to be able to work on it on your own time.
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>>79710530
>Given SJGames' spotty history with working with others, and their controlling nature
I've heard this, but I'm not actually aware of any instances. Who have they sued?
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>>79710530
whinging cont.
Ultimately I think their controlling attitude has a broad chilling effect which contributes to the perceived difficulty. For example, there have been anons throughout the years who put up fan-works in pdf here, which will likely never see the light of day outside of passing around files or a trove or somesuch. There are valuable compiled works like the various hacks of Lite, like the Zombies pdf, which definitely breaks the license.

My point earlier still stands, the licensing is, by comparison with an SRD/OGL combo that the bulk of much-discussed games have, not easy to work around, and not simple to make money on. Requiring oversight and approval from daddy SJGames puts me off of making stuff for GURPS. I'm damn sure that the oversaturation of 5e-compatible material would not exist if WotC did the same shit, and that license and SRD is weak as fuck.
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>>79710674
The most obvious historical case is the much-maligned relationship between SJGames and the developers of the original Fallout. The real reason for GURPS being disallowed partway through production is unknown to me, since it ranges from "violence/gore and sex jokes bad" to "the mascot is distasteful". Those devs are not the only ones to quite clearly state that Steve and the company was a pain to work with.
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>>79710784
Right, but that was literally two decades ago when GURPS was still trying to establish an identity and reach a wider audience. GURPS nowadays is not only established but stagnant, with its base only getting smaller every year. The best thing that could possibly happen for GURPS is for someone to come along and make a hacked-together version that has mass appeal.
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>>79710892
The more my group experiences 4e and gets mad about shit, the more we jokingly consider just writing 5e ourselves.
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>>79706915
>SJGames is litigious/controlling enough that I don't think they'd take kindly to a "totally not GURPS we promise" system.
What they'd be happy about and what they could do anything about are different questions.

There's a reason TSR had marketing for "guys don't trust it to be good if it's not branded ad&d! Even if it looks cross compatible with our stuff!"

Like, you can't copy their trade dress, logos, exact tables, or exact wording, or use any distinct names that they've trademarked.

But
>"They don't like you"
And
>"Grounds on which to sue"
Are different things.
>>
Are there any gurps supplements that go in-depth into feudal society and how to make my own? If they have a sci-fi bent that would work even better.
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>>79708390
I'd certainly buy it if it was good. I already open gurps repository and eggplant and mailankas musings and worlds beyond earth about 80% as often as my actual gurps books.
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>>79708390
But you're right that I personally am not a big source of revenue. I probably wouldn't buy more than $100-$200 of new books a year.

And I don't generally buy PDFs, I'd be looking for PoD hardcopies.
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>>79713308
I'm going to echo the earlier anon and say that being able to win a case against you and being able to ruin you in court are also different questions. SJGames isn't rolling in cash but they certainly have more money to blow on lawyers and legal fees than most regular people do. You may find yourself out of money weeks before the actual trial starts. And if you decide to forgo professional council and represent yourself and the proceedings, confident that you know copyright law well enough to win this "open and shut case," hell buddy I have a bridge for sale if you're interested.
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>>79713549
>They could just use sketchy practices to bankrupt 'some guy' with court fees even if they couldn't actually win in court.
Plausible.

If 'some guy' made and kickstarted an incompatible new game with similar point buy and modifiers design principles and good quality gameplay and design, and an OGL style compatibility license, I would buy that too, Even if it lacked direct gurps compatibility and required converting stuff.
>>
bump
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>>79713358
>feudal society and how to make one
You probably want https://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/Low-Tech/companion1/
or
https://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/realmmanagement/
or
https://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/boardroomandcuria/
and this may be useful https://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/citystats/

Based mostly on the descriptions. I haven't read those myself
>>
>>79713780
I would go for it on principle of cross-compatible OGL shit alone
But
A question remains how one would go about gesturing at that without tipping the hand and giving them precedent to go "see, this is bad faith use of our stuff!"
>>
>GURPS Discord
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>>79715308
They don't own the rights to the idea of advantages & modifiers; or the rights to real world data, or bell curved dice rolls.

Don't make something directly compatible with gurps and it's a nonissue, no?

They couldn't say you're "using their stuff" any more than they can about hero or besm.

Just make it not directly the same.

1. Ditch attributes and secondary characteristics, so for instance you buy up your PER and lifting ST and Striking ST and ST for Skills separately.
2. Draw inspiration from your advantages from more than gurps. Look at hero and even besm for ideas too. Name shit differently.
3. Do combat differently.
4. Don't copy paste any text.

One could make a game that operates on similar enough principles that you could convert stuff without too much trouble, without just making it "lolguys, this is just gurps with the serial numbers filed off".
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>>79715279
Instead of Realm Management and City Stats I would recommend Lord of the Manor.
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>>79710784
And as I point out every time you bring out this made up story, I have worked with Interplay. I have every reason to believe they were completely at fault there, refusing to accept normal licensing and trying to negotiate in bad faith.
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>>79717239
Can you use all three together?
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>>79703135
>Would it open the door to low-quality works bearing the GURPS name?
You can have a SRD without having an OGL, and you can have an OGL restrictive enough that you don't get buried in shovelware.

SJG can absolutely be more involved with their fans and especially with invaluable tools like the Foundry module or GCS (I probably would not have bothered with coming back to 4e if it was not for GCS and its convenience as a reference tool)
>>
>>79717320
Yes.
Lord of the Manor for managing your small fief with a focus on peasants and farms.
City Stats for a very barebones, very abstract (and in my opinion, pointless) city management.
Realm Management for very complex, not very complete and definitely very abstract management of a "realm" of any size. It can interface with Citystats and Mass Combat neatly.
And you can add Mass Combat for when you want to manage the logistics and tactics of an army (or small warband). Just don't forget to use its expanded rules from somewhere in Pyramid.
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>>79717376
So, in terms of shortcomings.

Do we need a "city stats 2"? "Realm management 2"?

What would be needed to fix these problems? It sounds like you're saying they're not explored in enough depth.
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>>79717468
Realm Management can be "fixed" with a couple of Pyramid articles, but ultimately it's not what most people wanted.
Instead of a gamey but in-depth system that meshes with the character-level stuff (e.g. similar to Pathfinder's realm management rules) we got an extremely abstract system that bolts on top of the game and is interacted with on a different level than the normal game (e.g. like Exalted's realm management rules).
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>>79718045
And realm management is too abstracted to be expanded to serve that Pathfinder style purpose?

For what people actually wanted then - an expansion on city stats? Something entirely new / different?
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>>79718074
>For what people actually wanted then - an expansion on city stats? Something entirely new / different?
For a start, a book mostly focussed on managing a realm rather than a conflict between realms game.
Something a lot less abstract, where there was a clear link between game concepts and real-world things. The system in RM is a weird do-one-thing-per-turn board-game style thing, which makes no sense to me. Real polities don't have to choose between collecting taxes, raising troops, and engaging in diplomacy each month; they do all of those things, all the time. At most you might have one specific group (e.g. the military) slightly focus on one aspect of their job more than others.
Some evidence that the writer really understood politics and management.
A focus on the kinds of 'realms' that PCs are likely to be managing; small businesses and local government, existing within larger states, rather than sovereign nations.
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>>79718386
>Scrap everything and start over.
Gotcha.
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>>79713358
It's woefully incomplete, but here's a brief writeup I did for feudal political structure in GURPS based on some pop-history books I was into at the time.
>>
Turns out a good way of introducing new players to Gurps is just giving them a basic rundown of the rules and letting them chose advantages/skills for themselves. Babying players on everything in the book page by page does not help normalfags.
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>>79717341
>OGL restrictive enough that you don't get buried in shovelware
Besides objectively measurable metrics, how would one achieve that? Like, "No sexual content", sure fine, but "don't make it shit" doesn't seem enforceable.
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>>79720358
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>>79717288
I'm not the only person who brings up this story, it is widely spread with varying levels of sourcing.

According to one of the lead writers, R Scott Campbell, it was Steve's decision (https://archive.is/m6lYI). This is obviously to be taken with a grain of salt, as a retrospective history. Tim Cain, lead programmer, unhelpfully says vaguely that they "lost the license", but he is so enthusiastic about using GURPS as an underpinning system here and figuring out what to do with it later that I find it difficult to believe that any of the people elbow deep in the development wanted to remove it (https://youtu.be/xgjd4i1o4UY?t=404)

According to Steve in Daily Illuminator posts, it was Interplay's decision (https://archive.is/NVtu), see Feb 12th - March 14th

It would appear that if any single party was responsible, it might have been the executives at Interplay who wanted not to pay the license fee and proceeded to lie to the writers.

That said, it is completely plausible based on everything I've heard about Steve Jackson, and other 3rd parties who want not to deal with his company, that he was part of the problem. This is not the only horror story of trying to work with SJGames, and many of the reviews of what it's like to work there are not flattering, going from sites like glassdoor and indeed.
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>>79645268
How would you do something akin to a chronicler's suit in a post-apocalyptic campaign? Would it essentially function as ultra light power armor?
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>>79722165
The one from Degenesis? I'm not really familiar with it, but from reading stuff available on the web, it seems that it isn't powered armour, per se, because there is no mechanism to move the limbs. Rather, it is a suit of armour which has sensors similar to the ones used to control power armour, but rather than being linked to actuators which move the suit, instead connect to weapons systems so they can be controlled with body movements. This is essentially just a neural input receiver (Ultra-Tech, p. 48), allowing 'hands-free' operation of various gadgets. Although the intro text mentions muscle-movement sensors as one of the options for neural input devices, there aren't rules for them, but I doubt they would be significantly different to headsets.
>>
>>79722434
Are there rules for incorporating gadgets and tools into armor anywhere?
>>
>>79722434
>Although the intro text mentions muscle-movement sensors as one of the options for neural input devices, there aren't rules for them, but I doubt they would be significantly different to headsets.
The main benefit is that it is late TL 8 technology rather than TL 9. We've got sensors available now which can detect nerve impulses through your skin, but the only real application they get used in is controlling prosthetics because buttons (and, to a lesser extent, touch-screens) are much cheaper, somewhat more reliable, and generally more convenient than fitting a bunch of electrodes onto someone and training them to operate things with muscle twitches.
>>
>>79722510
Combination Gadgets (UT p. 16)
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>>79722622
Danken friend.
>>
Which gurps supplements should i look at fora cyberpunk style campaign? More for the cybernetic implants and limbs and shit
>>
>>79722710
Ultra-Tech and various Pyramid articles. See the GURPSgen genre guide (instructions for locating it in the OP).
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Are there rules for guns built into helmets or vambraces anywhere? What skill should they use? Any modifications to stats?
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>>79645268
'Aight so Realm Management is... not great. If I wanted to run a nation builder game, what books should I pull from?
>>
>>79723533
Boardroom and Curia
Social Engineering
Lord of the Manor
>>
>>79718386
Hypothetical. Could boardroom and curia do it okay? Perhaps in tandem with city stats?

>>79723533
"Other system" options I've seen people talk about are:

Pathfinder ultimate campaign + expansions
Runequest guilds factions and cults
Runequest empires (similar focus to realm management, but it's a whole book).
Hero 6e ultimate base.
Angel (organization running rules).
>>
>>79723507
what in gunsmithin tarnation
>>
>>79723507
There are a few examples in High-Tech’s splats. IIRC the big changes are massive drops in Acc (often to 0) and Bulk and the lack of sights mean you can only shoot from the hip (a.k.a. only normal Attacks, no All-Out or Aiming). If you’re shortening a longer pistol instead of using something that’s already super-low-profile, also reduce damage and range.

Punchguns also have a disastrous result on a critically failed unarmed attack.
>>
>>79723780
With the various Pyramid articles, I think it would be OK. Rigsby's City Management (P3/54) seems to cover most of what is needed. If RM had been an expansion of that, I think it would have been much better.
>>
>>79723861
Helmet guns seem like they would avoid most of those issues, although they would probably need to be pretty light and low-powered to avoid neck strain, concussion, and both deafening and blinding yourself. Beam weapons would mitigate some of those problems, since they typically have no recoil or muzzle flash, and many of the heavy parts (the power source and capacitors) can be somewhat separated from the emitter and carried in a backpack or something. In fact, the only real reason I can think of not to mount your pistol-class beam weapon on your head is that with gun cameras you can avoid exposing your head so long as your weapon is held in your hands.
>>
>>79645268
Be real with me, how come there are a lot of genre and setting style source books for 3E than 4E? Take Cyberpunk, I like having all of that in one place, rather than buying High Tech, Ultra Tech, maybe Social Engineering and a bundle of other things.
>>
>>79726786
Also field maintenance and reloading would be a bitch.
>>
>>79727670
4e wanted to be more generic, and it’s easier to do that with general rule books that people are supposed to pull relevant bits from rather than “here’s a space opera book, two cyberpunk books, a military sci-fi book, and a gritty asteroid-mining sim book; who knows if something you’d like to use in your sci-fi romp is hidden away in one of these.”

3e focused on the U in GURPS while 4e emphasizes the G.
>>
>>79727670
Sometime around 2010, SJG shifted focus from updated and expanded versions of 3rd edition books to small PDF supplements which were mostly original. I think Horror was around the end of the era when they were redoing old content, with almost everything after that being original. Sadly, they never did a proper Science Fiction genre book which stuff like cyberpunk could be spun-off from in the same way Fantasy has things like Portal Fantasy.
>>
>>79728290
With a beam weapon there's really no need to reload by fiddling with the weapon if you can run a cable to a power source.
Maintenance could be an issue; you don't want to have to take your helmet off to fix an issue with your gun. I guess you could just have the weapon as a module which clips onto the helmet, but then you're fucked if something goes wrong with whatever holds it in place. Also, you won't be able to see if there is any damage to the weapon, signs of overheating, etc. and if it blows up or otherwise dangerously malfunctions, you're in real trouble. On the other hand, beam weapons are unlikely to be fixable in the field anyway and should have electronics to monitor any problems.
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>>79728508
I hope they do more PDF update books. I mean, they made gurps furries for some reason, they can afford to help update plenty of other things.
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>>79728635
>Living in the year 22XX
>Everyone and their technodog had an infiltrating SAI running on a quantum computer in their pocket
>Trusting digital diagnostics
Not gonna make it bud.
>>
So DMSO is in the High-Tech book, is there any restriction on mixing it with some horrific shit (VX, PCP, a ton of morphine) and then spraying it at people with a hose or weed sprayer?
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>>79726641
So:

Starting with:
> Boardroom and Curia
> City Stats
> City Management
> Social Engineering
> SE Pulling Rank
> SE Keeping in Contact

Would Lord of the Manor add anything helpful on top of that if you want the players to be able to build up and run a citystate, adding amenities and resources to the city which can be accessed, or does that pretty much cover it?
>>
>>79735320
City-states still should have an agricultural hinterland, so yes.
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>>79646030
Lame, but great weather over the weekend means a cancelled gameday likely in my future. The delve into the underbelly of North Bay will likely have to wait another week!
>>
Man, Kromm is on fire on the forums, taking shots at the autists who don't understand not everything is a simulation. I guess things are rough in Canada. Then he posts a call to playtest something called Nightreign. What even is that?
>>
>>79738592
>We are seeking playtesters for GURPS Infinite Worlds: Nightreign, by James Amaral and Joshua Lopez. This medium-length (55- to 60-page) worldbook describes a timeline where mysterious supernatural forces have turned things very grim indeed for Colonial America: The year is 1788, the sun seems to have set for good, and humanity's brave few champions fight overwhelming evil with flintlocks, imperfect magic, and their wits. This could be a destination for Infinite Worlds personnel or a gritty TL5 fantasy world in its own right.
Sounds pretty cool to me. However I am not sure why they decided to shoehorn it into IW instead of just adding a single page on how to integrate it.
>>
>>79738697
I think SJG uses the IW line as their place to put all campaign settings that aren't Banestorm. Most of them have IW on the cover and nothing but a little box on IW inside.
>>
Hey gurpsgen, I have a question about combat options.

I'm playing a character who is just-a-bit-better than the others in the group in terms of flexibility. Eg I'm a ritual path adept / trained by a master melee fighter in a 400ish point game.

The other players are mostly new to GURPS and came over from D&D so their approach to combat is very often " hit it " or " hit it harder ". They're learning and getting better but they simply don't have the ingrained "game"skills not to sort of suck yet. Eg: They'll wail with 2d6 swing damage against 10 dr Torso instead of rolling at -2 to hit an dr 0 arm. It means it's often trivial for my character to "solve" a problem that others struggle with.

> how did you defeat the demon?! It was wearing armour!
> Stabbed it in the eye.

Because I don't want to steal all the spotlight by solving most encounters by dint of having marginally better systems mastery, I've started doing little odd combos and alternative attacks. My hope is that it shows off what kind of options people have, and that it means I miss more while still doing good work when things work out. Rapid-Strike kneestrike + jaw-punch and whatnot.

And so: What are some zany / interesting combat options a well-trained unarmed fighter can pull? Any goofy attack combinations that are fun?
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>>79738592
>Kromm is on fire
I don't pay much attention to the forums. What's the summary? Are people getting bent out of shape about the system not being all simulationist all the time?
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>>79738897
You can always include them in your antics. Go for a knockdown/judo throw on a mook, and tell another player to finish the guy off. Then it's their turn to play lumberjack while you do cleanup.
Ask them to cover you while you front the big guy, and they circle around to hit him from the sides. Get the Teamwork perk from MA. They'll catch up to you if you show them the way, and hopefully they will think of new strategies with you. Remind them that this is how you win in GURPS:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRYGfKUEyfM
I'm going to do an above the eye cut next session now.
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>>79738897
Sweep + Axe Kick or Stamp Kick to the jaw seems pretty cool. Rapid striking from a grapple into an immediate lock or wrench can be suitably impressive and/or gruesome. Maybe follow up any given attack with a shove, optionally fluffed as a follow-through of the attack motion rather than a separate action.
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>>79720366
If you reserve the right to define "shit", it's perfectly enforceable.
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>>79739669
That's the problem: the point of an OGL/SRD is so that you don't have to contact the developers and play mother may I every time you want to make a bad game with their rules.
>>
I'm starting a Technomancer campaign and thought I would do some recruiting here
The players will be CIA Agents operating in Latin America
Add me on discord if interested: Arjki(UTC+1)#4193
If you have any questions I am much more likely to answer them over discord but I will try to answer any asked in the thread
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>>79740572
Always good to post, as GM, the time available for the game as well as local timezone

This is the internet after all, not meatspace
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>>79740572
Seconding you post game time, and if it's voice or text. Sounds good, but we need an estimated game time and game day.
Also, you'll get both shit and applications regardless of whether you choose text or voice. That's how it is here.
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>>79740772
Well I rather hoped that the timezone(it's CET) would be obvious from my username, but you're right I forgot the time. Saturdays starting roughly at 20:00, taking 2-4 hours per session. I also expect there to be some minor things settled over the week at a more leisurely pace.
Thanks for the reminder!
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>>79739382
Yeah, that's precisely my intention. And your ideas are really good!

>>79739410
That is pretty cool. Thanks!

I could shove someone towards my allies, or push-kick them on their back.
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>>79740904
text, one of my already recruited players has a strong preference for it
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bump
>>
So how would you handle Unknown Army’s insanity rules in GURPS?
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>>79745585
Feel like sharing what UA's insanity rules are?
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>>79747913
Insanity rules are a bit more realistic focusing on your character becoming hardened by their experiences (or crazy if they can’t handle it) rather than just suffering brain drain and losing their mind over it.
There are five categories of “mental stress”: violence, helplessness, unnatural, isolation, and self. When you recieve a “shock” that can potentially cause you mental trauma you roll the appropiate mental stress assoicated with that shock. Mental stresses are also connected directly with abilities (that also function as skills for checks) which you roll when you check for those mental stresses to see if you get hardened to it (which is resistance to going insane that way) or lose sanity.
Problem I have is the system is clearly baked into Unknown Armies.
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>>79748622
So stresses are scores you roll checks against, not resources that are drained or spent? One low-footprint way of doing this in GURPS would be to add Perks and Quirks that modify Will by +/-1 per level when rolling against specific stressors; someone with Will 12, Hardened to Violence 2, and Susceptible to Helplessness 3 has effective Will 14 to shrug off the traumatizing effects of violence, Will 9 to resist the long-term effects of feeling helpless, and Will 12 for everything else. For a more thorough conversion, I recommend busting out Power-Ups 9: Alternative Attributes.

For long-term effects of trauma, there's the rules for Stress & Derangement as well as Insanity in Horror (p 141 and 142 respectively). There's also Mad As Bones (Pyramid #3/103 Setbacks). For S&D, growing insanity is tracked by ever-increasing penalties to multiple rolls (including further Fear checks, increasing the chance of a terrible result with lasting consequences) while MaB has a more traditional take where there's a pool of Sanity that's akin to mental HP. MaB also has a fairly lengthy section that covers more mundane sources of stress that can whittle away at sanity while S&D sticks with Basic's very loose guidelines on what counts for a Fright Check.

As for the benefits of hardening, maybe allow PCs to spend whatever points they have saved up on appropriate mental traits after succeeding on the Will roll vs trauma, plus free point or two on a critical success. Alternatively, the cost of whatever new advantage they got is balanced out by a relevant disadvantage i.e. succeeding on a save vs Violence may give them Hardened to Violence 2 [2] but it also gives them Bloodlust (15) [-2]; further successes increase the bonus but worsen the disadvantage as they become inured to violence and have fewer qualms about using it. I don't know if hardening oneself to trauma's is treated as wholly good or a mixed bag in UA.

I'm not sure I understand the bit about abilities, though.
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>>79645268
guys, inspired by the cover's of the General Thread pdfs I remade the GURPS Lite 4th rules with a more retro look, and also the (print-friendly) cover and a 3rd ed looking 4th edition sheet.
the original 4th GURPS Lite is pretty bare on images, so I sacked some 3rd GURPS books for images.
hope it's useful or at least amusing
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>>79749556
just the sheet
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>>79749556
>>79749654
just the cover
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>>79749697
>>79749654
>>79749556
Doin the Lord's work son
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>>79749556
Chad move anon, looks great. What did you use to make it?
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>>79749556
Anon, that's dope as fuck! Only complaint I could muster is the absence of a ToC in the pdf. Too bad this is all sorts of fucky with the license
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>>79750603
>What did you use to make it?
LibreOffice Writer for the main
Inkscape for the cover and character sheet
and mild autism, of course

>>79750605
>the absence of a ToC in the pdf.
Oh, yes! Totally forgot. I'm afraid it wil mess the distribution of the text because it would be a full page thing. I will come back to it eventually and fix.
thx for pointing out, anon

>Too bad this is all sorts of fucky with the license
yup. they didn't have to go OpenGaming, but at least let people do "Powered By GURPS Lite" for small things, like a Hounted Mansion one shot with a pre-made cast of meddling kids.

>>79750337
thx, mr. the mad
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>>79750605
I forgot the glossary and to check the page references too. :(
oh well
soon...
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>>79739255
The system is all sumulationists all the time.
What it isn't is a simulation of reality.
Simulationism =/= simulating reality.
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>>79749556
So.

It looks pretty. But I haven't did into the content yet.

What did you change?
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>>79748622
Probably the best way would be to expand Fright Checks by splitting them into different tables for different types of stress (see the Awe and Confusion rules in Powers and the Steampunk 1 fainting tables, for example) with some of the results which give disadvantages being bundled with corresponding advantages to make you 'hardened' to that kind of stress (e.g. violence fright checks would have higher odds of giving you big disadvantage like Callous or Bloodlust, but you could get Fearlessness, violence only, or maybe even something like Combat Reflexes alongside them).
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Odious Personal Habit: beastfolk doesn't bother wearing pants. How much is it worth?
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>>79666545
GURPS can't do Epic Fantasy. Find a better system like D&D 4e.
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>>79755556
>How much is it worth?
(So close to quints) Nothing. You should should have Social Stigma: Monster (-15)
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Is it possible to be too retarded to learn GURPS?
A-Asking for a friend.
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>>79756671
It's possible to be too retarded to do anything, but GURPS isn't any more difficult than most other TTRPGs. The stuff that gets memed is usually just them showing the math with the relevant results on a table.
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>>79756148
>Social stigma:monster.
Depends on the setting. Do people think you're a bloodthirsty monster, or are they just disgusted because you walk around with your junk out?
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>>79756671
It's not actually *hard* but it is *different* that something like d&d.
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>>79756989
Is it better?
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>>79756671
You could be *actually* retarded, but then you shouldn't be on 4chan on the first place.

But really, GURPS is not that difficult. It just has lots of options and rules, so it's a lot of stuff to remember
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>>79757087
I think so. Depends what you're looking for though.

But I've been rather dissatisfied with most other games I've tried in the past 15 years.

It's got much more flexible chargen (if you want it), and more detailed combat (if you want it), and the tools to do most cross genre campaign concepts (if you want it). If you want to stay up spaceships and have prices for your players to buy them, or to buy upgrades you want to make available, it can do that too.

It's not as good if you're wanting to run a game in a highly detailed setting, unless it has a licensed adaptation or a fan conversion you like, just because you'll likely want to build all the magic and artifacts and species with strange abilities that the franchise has, and the prebuilt generic stuff likely won't be sufficient.

You might find it not as good if you want a detailed base-building subgame, or if you want running a city to be a major focus. It can do it, but you might find you like how another game does it better.

It takes more time to set up a campaign, unless you're just running a preset like dungeon fantasy or monster hunters or action.

What are you wanting to run / play? What do you like about games you've tried? What do you dislike about those games?
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>>79757087
I mean, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

Are you trying to play D&D? D&D is better.
Are you trying to play literally anything else? GURPS is better.
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>>79757369
>Are you trying to play d&d? D&D is better.
That's a matter of opinion.
It really depends what you like about d&d, and how much you like how the ttrpg handles it.
IE: what I like about D&D is mostly TSR setting books and the FR novels. I don't especially like any of the game systems that come with them, and I don't especially want to rewrite the rules of the one I like the gameplay of the best (pf1 circa level 10) to fix it, or want to rewrite 5e to fix what makes me get bored playing 5e - and d&d>>gurps conversions are pretty expansive at this point that you could either grab and use, or grab and tweak to fit your needs.

So I've been meaning to back up eggplants blog and the gurps repo in case they go down, and I've started to collate stuff from them in Word so I can eventually print them out, bind them, and put them on my shelf.

But if you want a no-setting beer-&-pretzels ad&d deathcrawl, or you want "whatever system is most popular so I can easily find a pickup game to play with randos" - then yeah I wouldn't grab gurps for that.
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>>79751030
>>79751058

LibreOffice *should* have the capability to handle ToC and page numbers
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>>79756671
If you can grok any other mildly crunchy rpg, like D&D, you can into GURPS
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>>79756671
You're wrong. You need to be a complete retard to play GURPS in 2021.
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>>79760774
Oh look. The guy [who spent 30 years playing gurps even though he didn't like it, and how spends a few hours a day whining in the gurps thread that not everyone has quit playing games they prefer and sworn to instead play his shitty metacurrency storygames] is back.

Got anything new to say this time, or just more of the same?

Have you considered just playing and talking about games you like, rather than obsessing over stuff you don't like? You might find you're happier that way.
>>
In the Banestorm setting, in a land which is mostly normal mana, if a group controlled a small high mana zone (about 400 square feet), what would be a reasonable price to charge for renting space in that room for powerstone recharging? The space can hold 18 powerstones and there are a couple of hundred members of the guild that controls it, most of whom use powerstones and would like to have theirs recharge faster. Typical member is Comfortable, with several dozen being Wealthy or better.
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Time to finally try out those combat versus hordes rules from zombies.
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>>79763501
Sorry man, I'm sure you mentioned this, but what program/platform are you using for this? Does it let you keep logs of combat and story elements? I was avoiding digital tabletops, but if I can document everything, including session notes in them, I might try it out.
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>>79763536
Foundry. It lets you fully export chat logs if you want, and has an internal system for keeping notes and character sheets, yes. I don't use it, because I'ma f reak who just keeps shi tin raw text files, but the GM of the game I'm playing in swears by it for that.
The GURPs module even lets you set up journal pages that the modifier panel can call on, if you want your players to have extra quick-reference modifiers and stuff. Very versatile stuff.
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>>79763562
Oh nice! I use notepad for a ton of my notes too, but I figure between wanting to play either GURPS or Rolemaster, I should maybe let a tabletop program help me out. Thank you!
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>>79763582
It's pretty great. The fan module for GURPS has integrated character sheets and a modifier selection. So you can, say, just add up all your attack mods then click your weapon skill right in your sheet, and it'll report an outcome. Then just click again for damage, etc. It's rather intuitive, and it's made teaching new people very easy, since they can see all their options.
>>
anyone else here read/download gurps books for flavor/lore reasons?
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I wish Foundry wasn't FIFTY DOLLARS
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>>79764683
I found it worth it. But it usually goes on sale for like thirty around christmas, iirc.
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>>79764679
Of course. The books are well-known for being solid resources on the topics they cover.
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>>79749556
>>79751058
All fixed.

>>79758965
>LibreOffice *should* have the capability to handle ToC and page numbers
It does. It was just me being forgetful.

>>79753361
>What did you change?
Just the appearance. Added a lot of images, mostly from Smif.
>>
Anyone have a good gm cheatsheet? I've seen a couple online but they always miss parts that are apparently copyrighted or whatever.
>>
Thinking of running a Dead Space campaign, any books I could look into? Primarily looking for high tech powertools the PCs could use as weapons and monsters I could sub in for Necromorphs.
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>>79766747
Necromorphs are just undead for all intents and purposes.
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>>79766541
>Just the look
Gotcha. Lots of people here have talked about gurps lite missing this or that important thing and being in need of an update / revision.
>>
rip



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