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Thread question: how do you feel about the addition of more high-tech and sci-fi elements to Shadow run
>>
>>78518856
I don't hate it on principle, but I think some of the bits in Street Lethal went a little far.
>>
Reposting once at the start:

So I'm throwing together a fan-made splat full of equipment and other things, and I was wondering two things:
1) Are you interested in it at all or should I fuck off with my bad OC
2) What you'd want to see in it.

So far on the list I have:
>Weapons, weapons, and some more weapons
>Weapon mods
>Some pre-packaged explosives
>More special damage ammo
>Rules for self-guiding missiles mentioned in R&G
>Specialty armor
>Bikes
>Hover bikes/boards
>Jetpacks
>Cyberhearts
>Ability to take multiple cyberarms without being a nartaki
>Weirder cyberlimb options (industrial limbs, tentacle arms, more liminal bodies, full body replacement)
>More 'ware bundles
>Stuff to make alchemy a bit less shit
>Astral vision goggles
>Clarifying the FAB strains
>Missing Qualities (eg: Latent Awakening)
>A complete pet/critter price and availability table
>Gear and services generally covered by a given lifestyle level
>>
>>78518893
Are Smartswords and other smart melee weapons already on the list?
>>
>>78518893
I'm a little skeptical of hoverbikes, but otherwise I'm into it.

As for other stuff to add:
>Parachutes would be good, and maybe something like a jump pack. I'm a little suspicious of full-on jetpacks, but it doesn't hurt to have the option I guess.
>Some sort of smart-swords like we were talking about a while back.
>Something to make skillwires more viable.
>A piggyback augment that lets a decker/ai ride shotgun in your body and hack/do other cool stuff.
>More and weirder weapon mods. Stuff like those 4e ones that let you make a FA revolver or have your pistol be able to fly over to you.
>Some kind of more interesting signature gear type quality.
>Some way for deckers to force a connection to offline enemy gear and ware without having to sneak up in melee. More stuff for deckers to do in combat in general.

Then these next two might be something you don't want to tackle for whatever reasons:
>Unified exotic weapon skills. If you can fire a machine pistol with the same skill as an assault rifle you should be able to use a predator and a gyrojet pistol with the same skill. And garottes being a different skill from monofilament garottes is stupid .
>Support for a tech-focused character. I mean one who uses stuff like engineering and other weird technical skills. I'm thinking some kind of support character based around weird armor, ideally something mages can't use (maybe you only see out of it via cameras?). I can help brainstorm uses for the skills. But generally stuff that uses underutilized skills and acts kinda like a half-archetype or an alternate power source.
>>
>>78518893
>Hover bikes/boards
>More 'ware bundles
>More special damage ammo
You have me interested. It seems like you are mostly focusing on tech and gear yeah?
One of the things I would really like to see is a wrist mounted grapple, or a pistol sized one at least.
Also if you are going to be rehashing cyber limbs I would love to see a redux of the modular cyberlimbs.
>>
How often do you guys go hard off-course with lore stuff. I don't really like the idea of goblins being infected dwarves, I think I'd prefer them to be their own metatype.
>>
>>78518856
Finally, /srg/ is in the title.
>>
>>78519134
I've got two levels of it in right now, one for any melee weapon that gives +1 acc and dice (since melee combat is more complicated than a ballistic flightpath), and one for clubs/maces that puts a motorized weight inside the head, allowing the software to correct your swing by adjusting the center of mass and giving the more expected +2 to each. There's a few other melee mods, notably extra discharge capacitors for electric weapons, monoedge sharpening for blades, and the remarkably unexplored option of "what if I put some sturdy metal spikes on this" for clubs.

>>78519209
The hover stuff is more "a big quadcopter with a neat form factor", same with the "jet"pack. Think pic related, not gravtech. I'll add parachutes to the list, and see what I can come up with for weirder weapon mods and decker/AI combat interactions. Unified Exotic Weapon skills I'm actually quite on board with, since they're a bit stupidly specialized at the moment.

>>78519263
Mostly focusing on tech and gear because I know that better, and it's theoretically usable for any character rather than just some. I don't really know enough about the matrix or most spellcasting to attempt anything balanced in those areas, except in areas where things are amazingly fucked in the first place (ie: alchemy). Already needed to touch on modular limbs for some stuff I have here (a modular connector for liminal bodies, for the rich people that only want to be a mermaid on the weekend), and I'll probably have that do what the author apparently intended with the Modular rules. Namely, you don't need both the Modular Connector implant on one end and the Modular Limb on the other, you just need it on one side.
>>
>>78520181
Sweet. How about a vibroblade mod?
>>
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>>78518856
>how do you feel about the addition of more high-tech and sci-fi elements to Shadow run
Good idea, but handled poorly. Just like the whole Monad thing.
4th edition was higher tech than 5th, but late 5th/6th has gone way beyond even the heights of 4th.
Seriously, gravity tech? Hand-held, scaleable, gravity tech?
I sort of understand that a huge leap might be needed because the power-creep of spells (mages can cast gravity spells so... yeah), but we're talking about such a monumental jump in capability that it's hard to see how the setting can hold together without absolute handwavium.
>>
>>78519609
Your table, your setting. As long as your crew are enjoying it, there's no such thing as a wrong decision.
>>
>>78518856
Ngl, that Shadowsun setting as described last thread sounds fucking hype, and I might just run a one-shot with my group to see if people have any interest in making a longer campaign of it.
>Post-apocalyptic science fiction fantasy, set in the decaying Dyson Swarm built as a last-ditch ark for humanity to survive the awakening of the Horrors

>The Ring was established hundreds of years ago, and now the various component satellites have developed their own cultures which are a mixture of mash-ups of real world cultures that ended up together on habs, derivative cargo-cults whose creation myths came from comic books or trideos now recast as religions, and AI-attended corporate enclaves that still desperately pretend that everything is okay. The Ring was a century of speculation and technological development combined with a few short weeks of panic, and it was far from an ideal implementation of utopia. Now many of the old stations have gone dark, former biospheres have overgrown from parks to teeming jungles, and rumors abound of dark things crawling inside vents.
>>
So I've been playing this for the first time for the last few months, and I'm getting to the point where my Adept can start grabbing some serious upgrades. What's more important- learning skills or raising stats? How much Edge should I be aiming for? I currently have 3.
>>
>>78520733
The premise is very Equinox, or at least how the original setting was described during development. No idea how the published book compares.
>>
>>78520733
Personally I like it more "at the apocalypse" or "just before" than post. Earth is an utter hellhole of magic going mad, with extremely fortified facilities and a handful of heavily warded arcologies the only major concentrations of people left. The Horrors are either free or almost free to walk the planet. Earth orbit and the moon are above current SR in ambient magic concentration, but still far less than the earth itself. The dyson swarm currently holds the majority of humanity, with stations and satellites trying to cluster close for safety/convenience without being so close they let the horrors and other spirits in. Toss in your normal corporate bullshittery and you've got a fun mess.
>>
>>78520181
>Think pic related, not gravtech.
Sweet.
>>
>>78518893
Combat/social drugs and more medtech would be nice.
>>
>>78520181
>Think pic related, not gravtech.
On that front do you have any plans for a skimmer board/skimcycle? Those would be wiz
>>
>>78521838
What kinda medtech you thinking?
>>
>>78520765
More specifics would be better on your build, and how much karma you have. 3 is fine for edge, but more is always handy. Better stats is generally better if you have a lot of skills that key off of one stat, but seeing your build would help a lot.
>>
>>78520765
Only 3? That feels a little yikes. Personally, I'm sitting on a juicy 7, with Revels in Murder as a recharge. But playing a parrymonkey requires a decent output of Edge since the moment you parry, you're sacrificing by stuffing a Limit on your defense.
>>
>>78523202
How often do you run up against it though? Physical limit ends up pretty high on most melee builds.
>>
>>78523318
Parrying means the Limit is your Accuracy.
>>
>>78522602
>>78523202

Currently I'm a Human, Strength 5, Agility 6, Body 5 iirc. I have 19 armor and a force 4 foci with fire and lightning damage mods (a jet black Louisville Slugger) karma is something like 67 with 19 unspent at the moment. I haven't had any issues busting heads yet, but I feel like I'm going to hit a wall sooner rather than later
>>
>>78523787
Oh, huh. Yeah I can see how that'd be an issue, though less for an adept.
>>
>>78523841
Another point in strength is probably a good call. Buying off negative qualities is always a good idea depending on how bad the ones you picked are. Grabbing Sharpshooter and Perfect Time will let you up the hurt with accurate called shots. Also take a look at martial arts.
>>
>>78524173
>Grabbing Sharpshooter and Perfect Time
Are you allowed to take two called shots at once or is PT just to free up an free action for other things?
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>>78524132
Even for an Adept, senpai. Between a parry and a full defense, I'm throwing 40 dice. And even without the full defense, it's still 33.
>>
>>78524209
The latter. Especially multiple attacks once you get enough dice.
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>>78507104
Ah hah! Came up with a possible solution (it's obviously not entirely covered under the rules, so the only way to pull it off would be to introduce it as a campaign element, where a mysterious subsidiary of an unknown mega was working on... let's call it Project Trinity.

1) Create a "perfect" wimp. Not THE perfect wimp, just A perfect wimp (for a given role). Gene-mod the heck out of it.
2) Use nanites derived from ones recovered from Boston (but dumbed-down or otherwise kept on a tight leash) to build out the wimp's CNS so that it can successfully connect to DNI. Remember to flush the nanites out or program them to maintain absolute loyalty.
3) Chrome the snot out of it. Because you gene-modded the wimp up front, you get to use all of the qualities and genemods and drugs that allow you to cram in more stuff for the same essence. I assume even monads can't go below 0 essence without the host body dying on them, but you can certainly go to .5 or less.
4) NOW you drop a spirit in it using the existing Inhabitation rules. I doubt you can go much above F6 (4A) or maaaybe a little higher (5e) without risking your entire investment in the body going up in smoke and vapor as the spirit becomes True Form.

If it works? You have a well-merged spirit that can potentially cast, sam, and deck/rig with an absurd amount of dice--or even do all three (four?) at the same time (if poorly) by using Agents/Pilots to help deal with the lack of enough Actions to do everything itself. Oh, and it would have Immunity to Normal Weapons that would also stack dice on top of its armor pool. And a number of Powers equal to its Force rating, so things like Flight and Travel could be used at will.

Broken? Seriously. Consider this to be more broken than cyberzombies were, back in the day, especially if you throw a hundred karma into it for spells and skills. Might make a nasty recurring NPC to hunt down the team, though.
>>
>>78524209
Simple action attacks are given restrictions like "may not take any other attack actions in the same Action Phase." (throwing also has this, but says you can attack one target with the multiple attack action)

Complex action attacks are not.

Complex action attacks can be turned into simple or free actions, via Quick Draw, Rapid Draw, Iaijutsu, etc.

These are things that GMs will usually get angry about if you rules lawyer up.
>>
>>78524361
I'm trying to figure the cost of this and... wow.
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>>78524361
>Use nanites derived from ones recovered from Boston (but dumbed-down or otherwise kept on a tight leash) to build out the wimp's CNS
The nanites capable of doing this don't exist, otherwise the CFD bullshit would have ended with 'and then we gave them some wimp bodies and taught them to brush their teeth and not shit their pants.'
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>>78524361
Speaking of cyber zombies, there ain't really rules for them in 5e. Anything back in 4e I can pick through, or potentially earlier? Honestly just lore would be neat.
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>>78524531
Augmentation for 4e has rules and fluff.
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>>78520765
>How much Edge should I be aiming for? I currently have 3.
Depends on your character. I'd say that 3 is the minimum anyone should aim for and sit at, but more is always better and edgelords are extremely viable in SR5. I try to have at least 4, myself.
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>>78525042
He's a fan of Baseball and Americana. He beats people to death with his baseball bat, and is looking to die for a cause greater than himself. Figures it's the only way to atone for his past sins.

>>78523841
Wouldn't that cost like 30 karma? That's a little out of my reach right now.
>>
>>78525186
20, I think.
>>
>>78518856
Quick cyberpunk fashion question: what is this kind of jacket called?
>>
At what point does it start being worth it to do multiple attacks?
>>
>>78525637
Probably around 30 dice, and even then only sometimes. You generally only want to do it against vastly inferior opponents.
>>
>>78525637
Surprise attacks, or attacks against objects. Pretty much only when your attack roll isn't being opposed. I've had great success using multiple attacks against barriers on my Smashing Blow adept. Nothing quite like three hits for 30+ damage as a Complex Action.
>>
>>78525995
How have you used attacking barriers? You do it in combat at all or just to enter in weird ways?
>>
Best rule overhauls you've seen? Can be ones you've made, LC rulesets, or anything else.
>>
>>78524531
They debuted waaaay back in 3e's Cybertechnology. There was also one (which may or may not have been Hachetman) that featured prominently in the DragonHeart Trilogy.
>>
>>78524440
Hence the not-entirely-covered-by-the-rules part. That's the key bit that's missing from the current rules, and given how broken the result would be, I expect there will never be an official ruling on this unless it gets used as a major Threat.
>>
>>78526017
Well, by "barriers", I meant mundane things like walls as well as astral ones. You'd be surprised how useful being able to Kool-Aid-Man into any room can be.
That said, if you want to get through an astral barrier in combat time, you'll pretty much have to attack it (either with Astral Combat or via dual-natured melee), since there's no listed action for pressing through normally.
>>
>>78526783
It's not that it's missing from the rules; it's missing from the setting. You're opening a can of wasps by introducing it.
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>>78525617
Looks like some kind of tactical slim-fit poncho jacket. I doubt it has a name.
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>>78524439
The R&D costs for the nanites would probably be in the hundreds of millions, at least. The rest would "only" cost a few million unless you used delta-grade everything (which, frankly, you probably should if you're investing this much into one). I should probably try to cost the parts out in Chummer just as a starting point for the marginal expenses per unit.

The thing is, with this kind of expenses, there's no way to make it back selling custom-built clones to mages. There just aren't enough mages who are willing to invest that much karma on a high-Force ally, much less the karma needed for all of the various skills and spells. The only way this makes business sense is if it gets mass-produced as a super-weapon for the company's parent megacorp, just as several megas dabbled in cyberzombies back in the '50s and '60s. Which means that instead of loyal ally spirits, or even normal summoned spirits, they'd have to hunt down, bind, and Inhabit Free Spirits into the clone bodies... you can see where this could cause all sorts of troubles. A SOTA R&D lab, deep in the red with little chance to ever show a profit, capable of producing at best a small number of absurdly-overpowered prototypes, but unable to scale up production. And who wouldn't want a copy of the technology they wasted all those millions on? Plus, if the Bugs ever found out, especially the ones infesting Ares, they'd certainly be interested. The potential runs practically write themselves.
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>>78524440
CFD nanites explicitly rebuild the victim's CNS so that it becomes a new person. It would absolutely work, otherwise Monads would not exist.
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>>78526962
I think his point is that there's a difference between re-writing a brain with nanites, and building one up from scratch. It's a valid argument, and as he points out, if you could do this, it would be seriously OP.

Still, I like the idea, even if it's mostly hypothetical. So were cyberzombies, once.
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>>78526962
If it worked in-setting, it would already have changed the setting.
>>
What does "as per the base type of spirit" mean?
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>>78526756
>3e's Cybertechnology.
Cybertech's a 2e book. 3e's one is Man & Machine.
>>
>>78526989
>>78527033
It DID fundamentally change the setting. After CFD/Monads were introduced CGL had to have it explained to them the can of worms they had opened. There's a reason why most Monads vanished off to deep space and further CFD research was stopped/banned.
Because CGL had it explained to them that they had stupidly allowed a way to custom-print metahumans.
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>>78527708
"Can rewrite a CD and buff out scratches" isn't the same as "can rebuild a CD that got put through a shredder", omae. Your super wimp wank doesn't work.
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>>78527800
Except it does. CFD infection rebuilds the CNS into a copy of whatever pattern is stored on the nanites. That is the only way it could possibly even work. We know that it can potentially work against anyone, even with the best healing abilities to reverse the changes.
It is even powerful enough to fight back against magical Regeneration, although in that case it's a stalemate that turns fatal.
But somehow it doesn't work on WIMP clones because.....?
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>>78527955
>But somehow it doesn't work on WIMP clones because.....?
Because the process of fast growing a clone fucks them up in ways that make them not useful for things other than organ banks.
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>>78527147
it means these spirit types were originally built as templates that go over normal spirits but then they got changed into their own spirit types and the power was never fixed. there is errata for the powers somewhere.
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>>78528166
*sigh* Yes, we've been over that already.
>>
Is there any way to improve your stealth checks against astral perception? Presumably, most of the mundane ways to improve your stealth doesn't do jack shit against some faggot peering at you through the astral plane. Something like a Biofiber pocket suit or something.
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>>78528447
Shame it didn't seem to sink in.
>>
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>>78528862
Just take the rules for ruthenium polymer coating and apply them to assensing instead of perception. Put it on a body suit or catsuit.
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>>78528926
It did. The point is it's irrelevant, something you don't seem to grasp. And when asked to show why it is relevant, you have nothing.
>>
>Dwarf pr0n star with transplanted Troll penis
>They call him "Tripod"
How bad is it?
>>
>>78530445
Pretty bland and vanilla compared to what Sixth World porno is capable of.
For example, you could have a neoteny catboy with a tentaclecock in a threesome with Biden Robocop and a summoned Spirit of Nurgle.
A dwarf with a big dick is so last century.
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>>78530445
Just one?
>>
>>78530445
just bad enough for it to be great
>>
>>78530429
>process of fast growing a clone fucks them up in ways that make them not useful for things other than organ banks
>irrelevant to the process of fast-growing clones
Are.. are you retarded?
>>
>>78526580
That dude that straight-up printed his own version of Shadowrun that was in the last thread was pretty fucking legit.
>>
>>78530762
If they're not a complete fucking moron, then they're doing a very good approximation while being entirely fixated on this only working the way it does in their head.
>>
>>78530525
>a summoned Spirit of Nurgle.
You mean Slaanesh, right? Slaanesh is orgy, Nurgle is STD.
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>>78530949
Yes, and bugchasing is a fetish that took off massively through SimSense recordings.
>>
>>78530762
>>78530920
You're chatting mad shit for complete fucking retards.
WIMP clones have a massively underdeveloped CNS, incapable of doing anything more than maintaining basic life functions for the clone in question. As I was the very first person to state in the last fucking thread, and we are all agreeing with so I don't know why you keep bringing it again and again.
But CFD nanites have the in-lore proven ability to completely rebuild a CNS to the exact pattern stored on the nanites. This ability to build the CNS is so powerful, that it can even defeat a vampire's Regeneration ability.
What this means is you can take a fast-grown WIMP clone, usually useful for nothing else than chopping off body parts, inject it with CFD nanites, supply it with enough building material, and have it grow a complete CNS equivalent to the one programmed into the nanites.
This breaks the entire fucking setting.
Because what use is there for Shadowrunners if the corp can just clone some WIMPS, inject them with nanites, and get factory-fresh pre-programmed Shadowrunners.
Answer: Shadowrunners = obsolete.
This is why Monads were written out of the setting with a cheap ride off into the sunset. They couldn't simply retcon them, because they had build one and a half editions off of Monads and the buildup to Monads, but they had to get rid of them because they destroyed the setting when taken to their inevitable logical conclusion.
Not because there was some sort of grognard backlash to how shitty Monads were, because as we know CGL doesn't care about public opinion.
But if GM's want to have their WIMP super-soldiers, they totally can because the possibility is now established in the lore. Unless you want to retcon this fact and ignore that the whole metaplot for the last decade doesn't exist.
Which is fair enough.
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>>78526955
Different anon, but I think I know what he's talking about. I don't know if it has a specific name, either, but I've seen that kind of collar design a lot in cyberpunk fashion. I think it's used a lot in cross-zip jackets
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>>78530949
>he doesn't want to make simsense recordings of himself fucking toxic spirits
ngmi
This is why you were kicked out of the industry and had to resort to shadowrunning
>>
With all this talk about CFD, where are the game rules for it? I know there's no PC rules, but GM rules exist somewhere right?
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>>78531770
:^)
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>>78531770
Chrome Flesh has some I think. Might be some in Stolen Souls.
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>>78531646
Ex-porn star runner sounds fun.
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>>78523841
>force 4 foci with fire and lightning damage mods
Explain!
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>>78532309
>Ex-
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>>78531770
Stolen Souls and Lockdown have some rules, though there's a lot of "lol just make something up, you're the GM" bits. They have some fixed advantages (pic), which are essentially a flexible Attribute Boost adept power based off Nanite Volume, a Neph Screen implant based off Nanite Volume, and a Pain Editor. Lockdown also adds some very powerful optional bonus powers, like Faster Healing (eat things to heal faster), Rapid Healing (sacrifice str/bod to heal faster), and Damage Resistance (reduce non-elec phys damage by half Nanite Volume).
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>>78531770
>>78532046
There are very few rules stated out, it's basically "Fluff says they can do this, so whatever. What, you weren't seriously going to roll dice for this shit, were you? It's just for storytelling, bro!"
There's a few bits in Stolen Souls, pg. 195, or Lockdown pg. 200.
Dark Terrors has a bit more on ex-Monads, pg. 86.
I remember a few more rules scattered around various publications, but I'm not trawling through every Mission or Adventure splat.
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>>78532812
4e had some forshadowing with the x-nanite system you could buy as a quality. According to that book, the CFD nanites could replicate any other hard nanite or nanocyberware system, I believe.
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>>78532900
Wild Card Nano Prototype? It's from Augmentation 4th Edition, pg. 20.
Not explicitly related to CFD, but I'd allow it for story purposes.
>>
Question for you guys who is the strongest Technomancer we know of in Shadowrun? How old are they and how many times have they submerged.

Basically trying to find the closest thing the Matrix has to Harlequin.
>>
Has anyone ever attempted to alter the fluff to update the point of historical divergence? Also, are there any orc countries?
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>>78532945
Yeah, forgot what it was called. Huh, I always figured it was and that's why it didn't get brought over to 5e.
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>>78533297
Not sure what you mean by updating the point of historical divergence.

As far as Ork countries go, there's the Cascade Orks. Also the Black Forest Troll Republic, kinda.
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>>78519609
If I wanted goblins in my game that aren't sewer-dwelling corpse-eating ghouls, I'd use hobgoblins.
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>>78533420
>Not sure what you mean by updating the point of historical divergence.
Changing the background so that things like the rise of the megacorps and the awakening don't happen until after the modern day. The Timeline effectively seems to diverge in 1992, meaning nothing that happened irl since then happened in the setting.
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>>78533297
Nah, too much work trying to fit everything to a new timescale, since real-world people and dates are used for background fluff.
We just assume that the Shadowrun world is its own metaplane that exists along with our Real World's metaplane. The existence of the Zenocorporatum metaplane could be taken to mean this is reasonable.
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>>78531419
I mean, the last decade of metaplot may as well not exist according to 6e. The whole CFD thing is just kind of referenced as "a thing that happened", and the new metaplot appears to be some type of spiritual bullshit.
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>>78533623
What's the zenocorporatum metaplane?
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>>78533582
Didn't know that was a thing, thanks.
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>>78533297
>>78533621
>>78533623
I also think that you end up losing a lot of the feel. The awakening coincided with things like Haley's Comet, the end of the Mayan Calendar, etc. It would be *a lot* of work to pull off something similar.
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>>78518893
>Cyberhearts
YES
>Ability to take multiple cyberarms without being a nartaki
>Weirder cyberlimb options (industrial limbs, tentacle arms, more liminal bodies, full body replacement)
Neutral to yes. Limb things are interesting and FBA is a cyberpunk staple.
>More 'ware bundles
Yes, but a personal fix I like is simply going 'take ware bundles, stack whatever else you want, best of both worlds' for the existing ones since mundanes are shafted anyway and that's how it was in 4e.
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>>78533769
Ah
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>>78533661
It's a metaplane introduced in Howlong Shadows. At least I think that was the first appearance.
It's basically the standard Shadowrun world, but with the names of everything changed to avoid copyright infringement (or something). So you'll find Mars Macrotechnology instead of Ares, AzCorp instead of Aztechnology, Mitsudaishi Corporate Technologies instead of Mitsuhama Computer Technologies, etc.
Basically somewhere your teams can Astrally Project into, do whatever they want in a Shadowrun setting, but have no long-term consequences in the 'real' world.
You know, unless you really piss off the spirits living there and they decide to fuck up your shit.
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>>78518893
Here's something I threw together a while back but never finished. It might give you some ideas, but if you use anything give the stat's a second balance pass.
25 pages of new augmentations, gear, technomancer shit, etc.
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>>78531419
>But CFD nanites have the in-lore proven ability to completely rebuild a CNS to the exact pattern stored on the nanites
This is the part where the confusion is. They don't rebuild, they overwrite. They're not growing out a new spinal column and mass-producing neurons, they're reorganizing the structure of the brain so that it replicates the pattern stored in the nanites. It's explicitly an imperfect process, which is why you have it happen as a slow overwrite of a person's mind to the point where they start taking a backseat in their own body, but they never really go away (as per Lanier's testimony). The brain is just being reconfigured such that, with support from the nanites, a new personality is in control.
Magical regeneration and other treatments are ineffective because they can't recreate the original mind due to the changes in structure and constant pushback from nanites, not because the entire old brain was destroyed and replaced. The only effective methods of treatment, from Lockdown/Stolen Souls and Dark Terrors, is to remove the nanites, hope the removal/damage from nanite infestation isn't too bad, and try to rebuild the old personality through personasofts.
While headcases do have regeneration, I (and apparently others) think it is too much of a stretch to assume that they are able to rebuild massive and extremely complex body systems from scratch in a body that explicitly isn't capable of supporting them. At that point, the question is more, "Why didn't every headcase/Monad rebuild themselves into perfect biological specimens with thermographic vision, redundant organs, and juggernaut skin?"
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>>78533099
The equivalent of Harlequin would be FastJack or maybe Alice Haeffner, ghosts in the machine that are out there doing their own thing. Pax is probably the strongest technomancer, who has rules in Lockdown p. 215
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>>78533642
>The whole CFD thing is just kind of referenced as "a thing that happened"

Can you blame them? The people who live in the SR universe are probably tired of having a bodysnatching/apocalyptic catastrophe every five years.
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>>78533661
It's the Metaplane of Corporations. Yes, that's a thing now.
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>>78534168
It's basically the one thing CGL are capable of doing, in their imitation of what came before. At this point there's what, three different bodysnatching apocalypses?
>Bugs
>Shedim
>CFD
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>>78534171
Eh. Considering how omnipresent corps are in the setting, and how many metaplanes are a reflection of life, I can totally accept it being a thing.
There should probably also be a Corporate Court magical tradition as well, indoctrinated into all young go-getting magicians. 10% off your next reagent purchase. Combat spirit is a floating Ares Macrotech logo or something.
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3efags, I summon you.
What were otaku like, mechanically? I can't grok the old ruleset. Were they just deckers without the deck but with a pseudo-religion? Did they have special powers like complex forms, compile sprites, all the stuff technomancers do now? Is the difference just cultural and age-wise?
I'm looking to make an otaku-to-technomancer, I want to be able to speak with accuracy about what the good old days were like.
>>
Technomancers and playable AI were a mistake.
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>>78534112
>Pax is probably the strongest technomancer, who has rules in Lockdown p. 215
Not going to lie she seems surprisingly weak. I expected the best we had to be packing as many Submersions as Thorn has Initiations.
>>
>>78534220
There was some bodysnatching in the Renrakru Arcology as well. And in one of the books someone mentioned a guy who figured out how to body-puppet people with skillwires.
>>
>>78534446
A lot of problems could have been avoided if AI were simply metahuman robots that got bonuses to decking. Just stat up a human with a full cyber conversion, set Essence to 0, and done.
>>
Planning on running a game soon but not sure I wanna use Seattle. Is Chicago interesting in SR?
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>>78533818
What exactly is the point of it? Is anyone doing anything with it?
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>>78534738
Chicago is very interesting. Place got overun with bug spirits and nuked, it's one of the more popular places to set games in. Y'know what, I'll just link the wiki page.

https://shadowrun.fandom.com/wiki/Chicago
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>>78534301
Never used them in my game but have read the books. From what I can tell it's mechanically something of a proto-technomancer. They have the complex forms and sprites and all. There's a few details in the margin that are swapped around but technomancers are, for the most part, just straight conversion of otaku. I would consider them equivalent. Many technomancers probably would have been called Otaku back in the day, maybe growing up in child street gangs of young otaku or something.
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>>78534775
Good to know. Thanks
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>>78534738
Remember that you don't have to take an established Metroplex. You could run in almost any city and make it all up yourself if necessary.
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>>78534745
I don't thing it's gotten any further elaboration. It's just a GM's playground.
Players can use a Calling ritual to summon Shadowrunner spirits from the metaplane, but that's about it.
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>>78534168
Yeah. Kind of unfortunate most of 5e's metaplot was just CFD shit that went nowhere.

Despite being shit nobody cares about, 6e's big events have multiple things happening like a bug war in Detroit, an entire army division and the surrounding landscape vanishing into hostile metaplanes and some of them coming back weird and mutated, multiple cities being getting super EMPed, and political shit with the UCAS trying to punch the corps, falling over, and getting kicked in the stomach multiple times by everyone else
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>>78535235
I actually like the returning soldiers plotline for what it's worth.
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>>78528862
>Is there any way to improve your stealth checks against astral perception
Sneak better
no really. the only thing that's the same with normal stealth and astral stealth is "keep out of line of sight"
don't allow the watcher to get a clear line of sight to your astral form/aura
so as long as you hide behind something you're fine
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>>78535258
It had a really good setup in the first plot book, but the second plot book is a bit more of a jumbled mess that can't really focus on ideas, neither keeping things truly mysterious or fully explaining them.
>>
>>78535364
The bit that annoyed me most is Dis and how they couldn't settle on which version of hell they wanted to go with.
>>
>>78535003
Shadowrunner spirits sound kinda fun, actually.
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>>78535364
Good ideas, bad execution could be the tagline for shadowrun. Or the RPG industry as a whole, really.
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>>78535364
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>>78534942
Doing it in part because a player lives there.
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>>78536790
Oh, cool. Chicago is great and there's a lot of content for it. One of the more recent seasons of missions was set there I think.
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>>78536682
Damn it, I thought I had an original idea for once.
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>>78535492
Same. I just got to the end of the lore content and went "Is that it?". It's just a big fucking city meta plane that is seemingly disappearing people and mutating them into mana batteries, also revealed to be the origin of the Black Lodge
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>>78533775
>Yes, but a personal fix I like is simply going 'take ware bundles, stack whatever else you want, best of both worlds' for the existing ones since mundanes are shafted anyway and that's how it was in 4e.
Bundles (page 92-93 Chrome Flesh) give a 10% essence discount, but their wifi is permanently on and advertises for the corp. They're compatible with other ware.
Suites (page 205-207 Lockdown) give a bigger (and variable) essence discount, but prevent you installing any other 'ware.
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>>78537898
Wait the wifi's always on? I must've missed that.
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So if I get a focus, bind it and then lose it, I'm out of that Karma forever? No way to unbind a focus to even get a fraction of karma back?
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>>78536372
They are. Both Anarch and Blackjacks offer cool interactions.
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>>78539040
Yep, you're S.O.L. Well, not quite. Any bonded focus is astrally linked to the user, so you should be able to find it that way.
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>>78537163
Can I get some more info on this?
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>>78538685
Better learn to like wearing a Faraday cage, chummer.
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>>78539300
Well, there was the link I posted upthread to the wiki page. The main books you want are Bug City and Feral Cities. Season 5 is the one you're looking for for the runs, I believe.
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>>78539372
Oh well. UMM should work to keep it from broadcasting too much.
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>>78537868
>revealed to be the origin of the Black Lodge
So the Lodge isn't the Ancient and Most Revered Order of Bastards? They're agents of some metaplanar metahuman kidnapping ring? Are they at least in charge of the place?
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>>78540232
Nope, just its agents or something. Honestly can't remember, the information on Dis in the book(Slip Streams, btw) is jumbled and confusing, and in a way that is obviously not intentional and I read it like half a year ago anyways.
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>>78540232
I got the impression that the metaplanar kidnapping ring bit was just a side gig.
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>>78540983
I hope it is. I'm a fan of the Lodge as a bunch of self-centered assholes exploiting each other in an endless chain all the way down, dressed up in stolen pomp and circumstance.

>>78540856
Glad to see Hardy still hasn't learned to read a book all the way through when editing.
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>>78541069
Well, the first plot book was coherent, mostly. Pretty much a linear series of events from "Ares has bug war in Detroit, Damien Knight Dead" to "UCAS has had enough of Corp shit, sends the army to Detroit but they literally vanish on the way there" to "UCAS revokes extraterritoriality" to "Multiple corps pull out of UCAS. Multiple UCAS cities plunged into lawless darkness as every electronic device in them loses power" to "UCAS gets fucked, restores extraterritoriality, multiple cities(Seattle included) secede from UCAS"
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>>78541611
Wait, Knight is dead? Like for real this time?
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>>78541611
Speaking of the while 'losing power in multiple cities' thing, anyone run 30 Nights? How'd it go?
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>>78541764
I believe he was dragged into the air next to a big sky portal that appeared next to Ares’s big tower in Detroit at the conclusion of the bug war, which then got hit with a nuclear missile.

Knight’s either actually dead or got pulled into the Bug Plane, basically
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>>78541611
Christ, I think the 6e metaplot looks to be even worse than its mechanics.
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>>78505970
hey myriad shadows guy what did you use to format your PDF
I'm also interested in writing copious amounts of words but basically only for like 10 people instead of printing it
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>>78534572
Yeah, that's sort of been my approach for Myriad Shadows.

>>78534446
I wouldn't say a mistake so much as something that's incredibly difficult to get right. Otaku prove that it can't be done competently, and the idea is pretty old and rooted deeply in Shadowrun going as far back as... Angie Mitchell from Mona Lisa Overdrive, I guess? So it has a place in the setting, it's just a rough one to get right mechanically.

>>78535258
Isn't that technically already stolen from 3rd Ed with the Chinese army division that was sent to attack Tibet and got lost in mists for decades before getting shat back out to a China that had dissolved into Warring States 2: Electric Boogaloo?

>>78536372
It's also a really fun way to play a summoner that doesn't just assfuck game balance to hell and back. You basically just play a summoner that's effectively just an astral fixer, with dozens of boltholes set up around the sprawl with back-up equipment and firepower, summoning up tac teams, sniper coverage, and getaway-drivers with a literal snap of your fingers.
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>>78543760
Oh, hey! I actually did it all entirely in GoogleDocs, with some help from a friend that also used it as his primary tool for game design (including stuff that's literally published). It's a surprisingly useful tool for stuff like that. I formatted the cover with Affinity, as well as the character sheet, and I might use that for future projects... but GoogleDocs is just unironically really useful. Formatting images was a pain in the dick, but I managed to bruteforce through it while the ability to quickly-and-easily format sections of text based on headings and the like was pretty much painless.
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>>78543814
>Isn't that technically already stolen from 3rd Ed with the Chinese army division that was sent to attack Tibet and got lost in mists for decades before getting shat back out to a China that had dissolved into Warring States 2: Electric Boogaloo?

Very possible. I don't really remember that. But I'm also a more recent arrival to the game.
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>>78543615
To be fair, it seems that they wanted events to be more of a "over and done with, set your game during this month long time period if you want to use these special circumstances" rather than a quarantine zone that lasts an entire edition
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Question which Matrix Attribute do you consider the most valuable for a Decker / Technomancer?
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>>78544879
Most of the time? Logic. For a technomancer? Charisma. Attributes are more important for technos as a rule.
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>>78534572
I feel like that's missing some of the inherent good parts of AI in Shadowrun. They are, by almost all fluff examples, things that live entirely in the Matrix and do all their business there. Even Deus didn't jump into any drones or arcology systems, it just commanded them from the Matrix.
A way of doing it would have been designing a way for AI to easily shake Overwatch, giving them an inbuilt RCC (possibly through a quality) and let them live as the ultimate extension of the technomancer idea, very slippery Matrix dwellers that don't go in for normal attacks but do their best work in special cases involving massive scale actions, like replicating host functions, swarming enemies with pseudo-IC or control over real-world hardware, or linking a lot of devices into a super-PAN.
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>>78544879
DP. Speed is key.
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>>78545975
>not using one of the custom decks from Kill Code to maximize Attack
It's like you don't even live fast and die young
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>>78546004
You make a tempting argument. I just wish combat decking was better.
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>>78546067
It's just like regular combat, you need the most initative possible. You blast the IC that's there and do what you actually need to do with the rest of your passes, rinse and repeat every Combat Turn when new IC spawns. So long as you come with a big datagun, you can pull it off.
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>>78545975
Do meth, got it
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>>78546259
Indeed. Winners do drugs.
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>>78546004
Did Kill Code actually have good stuff in it? I'd kind of checked out from 5e at that point.
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>>78543615
It's all so fantastically fucking stupid. It's amazing how SR6 manages to be garbage in every single way possible.

>>78543814
Old does not mean good.
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>>78547110
You've got to pick and choose. Most of it is fine, cool even (esp paragons and techno streams), but there are a couple of broken qualities (groveler springs to mind). The gear is mostly pretty cool.
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>>78536372
You haven't met my runner team.
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Is it a difference between acquiring a fake National SIN and a fake Corporate SIN? Let's say that I'm planning to infiltrate a corporate facility, and I want to pose as a paramilitary officer from out of town doing internal investigation stuff to avoid immediate questioning by grunts, for example.

Anything on that in any of the books that I might've missed?
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>>78530525
>>78530445
In my headcannon all Sixth World Dorfs (regardless of sex) have a miniature Danny DeVito between their legs, and they reproduce when their respective crotch DeVitos exchange a complicated series of handshakes and high fives.
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>>78551126
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>>78551180
That's what she said.
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>>78521838
>Combat/social drugs and more medtech would be nice.
Anything in particular?

>>78533775
I was really confused what you meant since I didn't think they were incompatible, then >>78537898 pointed out Suites exist and are the "fixed and nothing else" thing. I was planning on doing Chrome Flesh style Bundles (with a note you can get them as , but I may toss in a Suite or three now that I know they exist.

>>78533881
Some neat ideas in there, and some others that it's neat to see someone else's take on. If I pull something from this, I'll be sure to put a reference to where I got it from. Really like putting the concealment modifier directly into the weapon stat bar, gonna have to use that.

>>78531770
>>78532861
>>78532900
I am ALMOST tempted to try and write up unified CFD rules. Almost. Being spread over four+ books, not consistently codified (apparently the Lockdown strain is different from the majority), and requiring nicely meshing the Nanoware, AI, and existing CFD rules... It would be a bitch and a half. And that's just for GM side use, where you don't need to worry about balance like you do making them playable.
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>>78552007
>(with a note you can get them as
With a note you can get them as alpha/beta/etc and that limb stats can be customized at purchase as normal.
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>>78549390
No, Fake Corporate SINs are acquired just like all other SINs. Talk to your GM if there's any extra costs like licenses or grades, though. Not having a driver's license might stand out if you show up and pretend to be some corporate big shot. You should have licenses/degrees like a university graduate, at least.
>>
What type of opposition is your team going against?

My group is currently helping keep a neighborhood safe by running off some Sons of Sauron and some Yakuza. We got the Sons off by one of our members(a phys adept who primarily uses nerve strike to fight) challenging their leader(a troll with a combat axe) to a fight with the condition the Sons would leave the area if she won. She lost because her rolls were utterly trash, she managed to roll zero successes on 18 dice, and she had to burn edge to avoid being cut in half by the troll's combat axe.

We dragged away her half-dead body so the decker could patch her up, then our jacked-up elf with bone blades challenged the troll while I used my control thoughts spell to have the troll decide to ignore the fact he was at Reaction 1 because the adept had nearly knocked him out with nerve strike.
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>>78549390
A fake SIN is a fake SIN.
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>>78554079
>Not having a driver's license might stand out if you show up and pretend to be some corporate big shot
Considering the state of Chauffeurs in the sixth world (electronic and not), that honestly isn't something that should rouse attention
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>>78554114
A Seraphim tactical team. Well, I guess ex-Seraphim technically? One was geeked at the chalet, the other three took off with our mark. Sniper took out the Roadmaster we had hijacked from a position 500m in front of us in the direction the mark is travelling, a Magic 8 mage is somewhere behind us, our own mage is fucking inept so I had to stab an avalanche to death from the passenger window since he can't banish for shit, and one or two of their operatives are still in-play at an unknown location.
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>>78554250
Eh, yeah, you're probably right. A driver's license is probably a really bad example.
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In older editions of Shadowrun, were fake SINs as necessary? With everything being digital and wireless and getting auoflagged for being SINless in post-4E Shadowrun, it makes sense to practically need even a cheap burner to do basically anything, but what about in 3rd?

How far could you go SINless in older editions of pre-wireless Shadowrun? How far could go you with an actual SIN that you simply aren't using when on the job?
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>>78554666
I never bothered with CGLrun, but I can tell you fake SINs are important in 3e. You can get some things with certified cred, like snacks from a vending machine. But try to so much as check out a library chip, and you need a SIN. Even if its just a shitty SIN, you need SOMETHING. You just don't need it to walk down the street.
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>>78549390
Nope, no difference by the rules.
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>>78554666
My impression isn't that you get "auto-flagged" as being SINless, just that if you're not broadcasting a SIN, things will simply not work for you, because as far as they are concerned, you don't even exist. It is my impression that this has been true since nearly forever, but I haven't actually *played* earlier editions.

Like hell, you can't get through the gates in many areas without a SIN. It doesn't mean that your SIN is being checked or verified, just logged. It is my understanding that you can't get in from the barrens/rural areas and into the metroplexes without a SIN either, although depending on the area, you might actually get checked at those checkpoints, just nothing serious.

Most of the time, you just need fucking *something*, even if it's just that one shitty Rating 1 Fake SIN your community in the barrens are all sharing so you can get something from the Stuffershack at the border to the metroplex.

Sometimes it's easy to forget just how fucking post-apoc much of the Shadowrun world is.
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>>78555693
>my understanding that you can't get in
*sometimes can't
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What's the rough value of Nuyen compared to the IRL US Dollar?
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>>78555814
Hard to really tell, just base everything on the price of a burger.

1 Nuyen gets you 1 onions burger. Currently, the basic hamburger at McDonalds appears to be around $1.50
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>>78555814
It has been stated a few times that they've tried to keep a rough 1 Shadow Nuyen = 1 Reality Today USD, but obviously there's going to be a lot of divergence due to a whole host of issues, such as local economies, the verisimilitude of the setting, Big Mac Index differences, etc., nevermind that the value of the USD has changed during the course of the editions themselves, but prices have sometimes been ported straight over.

But very roughly, 1 Nuyen = 1 IRL USD.
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>>78556361
>Shadow
Shadowrun
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Would an echo to increase the max number of registered Sprites be acceptable and at what rate?

1 per Echo or Half Submersion grade.
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>>78556735
It's probably not a good idea purely because of the time spent rolling for multiple mooks. But if you must...
Half submersion. It's already painful enough being a techno, you need to save your echoes for more important shit.
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What's your favourite magic tradition, and why?
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>>78556894
>save your echoes for more important shit.
Yeah, like copying every autosoft for every drone as a Machinist.
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>>78557505
Muslim's a fun one, played a club adept with the wise warrior mentor. Reflavored as Saladin. There's a lot of weird lore to get into, and the religious restrictions make longer runs a lot more interesting to plan.
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>>78557505
Black Magic. It's fairly basic, but I like the whole deal of being a somewhat selfish (or ego-centric at least) decadent bastard while still not being some kind of cut-out villain with the lol ebil schtick.
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>>78557505
For a summoner-focused character, Hermetic is quite nice thanks to Elementals.
Lots of little derpy spirit-friends who want nothing more than to do a good job for Mr. Mage.
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>>78557505
Qabbalic tradition. With Distinctive Style (Orthodox clothes), 20-hour Day Job (no running from Saturday sunrise to Saturday sunset), and Code of Honor (the six hundred and thirteen midzvot).
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>>78558542
>20-hour Day Job (no running from Saturday sunrise to Saturday sunset)
Wouldn't a Geas fit better?
It's not like you're paid to observe your religious holidays
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>>78555814
More or less 1-1.
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>>78558580
Yeah but I don't believe there are proper rules for it in 5e.
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>>78557505
Chaos appeals to me a lot, but it's a shame that it's so obviously the powergamer's choice with int as the drain stat.

Qabbalic is really cool and the one that I know the most about IRL, so it's probably my favorite of the remainder.
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>>78560081
I'd say the value of everything comparable in the sixth world has dropped sharply; nothing is made to last, food is almost entirely filler, service is a joke, etc etc. It's reduced portion sizes without changing product price, writ across everything.
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>>78560143
>it's a shame that it's so obviously the powergamer's choice
Draconic or Romani would fit that description better.
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>>78560108
Huh. I was 100 percent sure they ported it over.

>>78560194
>implying ANY GM would allow either of those
Also, wasn't Draconic limited to Drakes?
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>>78560194
True. Used to be Chaos was the top of the list, but Draconic is such clear and utter bulshit as a PC option that I have no idea how it got into the book.

>>78560178
I'm just going off what they say in the back of Run Faster.
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>>78560230
There's a mention of Geasa as an initiatory ordeal in Street Grimoire, but it never explains what they actually do.
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>>78557505
Psionics
I'm a massive psionicsfag and I like INT as a tradition stat because I'm a dirty minmaxxer
I'd be fine if it were deleted and an actual psionics system were added but that's probably going too far with funny sub systems
>>
>>78560230
>Also, wasn't Draconic limited to Drakes?
Yeah, but the 5e drake quality was written in a way that makes the latent drake quality pointless and you can just live with that karmic loan, so it's barely an inconvenience.
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>>78560256
Well, in 4e Geasa gave you 10BP for each, and gave you some restriction for using Magic.
If you broke it it reduced your Magic by 1 for a duration set by the type (but usually 24h)
And if you have broken a Geas and suffer a crisis of confidence there's a chance that it could become permanent.

Example Geasa:
>Condition Geas - Need to be in some condition to use magic (shitfaced drunk, astrally perceiving, unwounded, etc.)
>Gesture Geas - Basically Somatic Components. You need to throw your hands up in the air and wave em like you just don't care to use magic
>Incantation Geas - Basically Verbal Component. You need to clearly and audibly chant, pronounce or sing like you're in some cheap Trid
>Location Geas - If you're not in the right hood, no mojo for you
>Mentor Geas - You can only do things your Mentor Spirit gives you some Advantage on. Good luck if your Mentor is Sun (5e)
>Talisman Geas - You need a special fetish called a talisman to cast. If you're not holding it you can't do magic. If it's lost or destroyed you need to retrieve it or get a similar one. If an irreplaceable talisman is destroyed you permanently lose the point of Magic and the Geas
>Time Geas - You can only use magic at certain times. This can be day or night, a single season or time period like Summer. And also you could (like the Quabbalist anon above) make use of it at certain times prohibited (like Sabbath, Lent or Ramadan)
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>>78560314
>>78560143
Is INT as a drain stat really that min maxy? I can see it if you want to be a dedicated combat mage, but it doesn't strike me as any more min maxy that charisma on a face/summoner or logic on a support mage.
>>
I'm reading the 2/3e lore books right now, and I have a question. Are the books published by FanPro any good? Do they fit in with the established Shadowrun universe while being a fun setting to take inspiration from for my upcoming games?
>>
>>78557505
On this topic, how would you fluff and crunch a Mongolian/Tengri tradition? I've kinda taken a liking to the whole culture and would love to learn more about them.
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>>78560772
It's not that it's just the best stat but more that it's just a stat that's ALWAYS useful on a character, without failure, unlike LOG or CHA. LOG/CHA can be pretty weak, but INT is always good for perception, assenssing and defense/initiative
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>>78560772
It's not really that broken, it's just that it's always good on a character as opposed to logic or charisma. There's no character that doesn't get at least some benefit out of more intuition.

>>78560437
Yeah, I remember. I liked the quality, and front-porting it shouldn't be hard.
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>>78555693
Yeah, but that also depends on the relative wealth and officialness of an area, right? Like, you aren't going to be walking into the Horizon-branded resort without a SIN or checking out a library book, but grabbing a bite from the Phat Clam or getting a gun from a mafia-backed arms merchant isn't going to be checking it, are they? A mambo's reagent shop in Little Haiti isn't going to be checking for SINs, I wouldn't think? I vaguely recall seeing somewhere that a SINless person can even walk into a Stuffer Shack and buy some over-the-counter meds, some clothing, and some food, they just can't legally own property, ride public transportation, vote, or go anywhere that isn't a free clinic.

I'm just trying to get a sense of things as they were back in the late 50s, early 60s. Ethnic neighborhoods ruled primary by gangs or mafias just don't really seem like somewhere that would care all that much, and especially for slum and slum-adjacent areas that still are incredibly localized and ethnically-divided, it seems like something that isn't nearly as much of a hard-coded requirement for street level drek as it gets pushed.
>>
>>78561634
I feel like there's somethng in a book about the security ratings you can safely be without broadcasting a SIN. I think C/D was the max.
>>
>>78561978
Yeah, see, that sounds about right. And basically corresponds to low-income housing and non-corporate business zones being given a modicum of attention, but no real direct support. It's the same security level that almost never does actual beat patrols but mostly is just reacting to high threat situations, with a general populace that's resentful of law enforcement and the corps but still ultimately mostly dependent on them. The sort of population that it makes sense not being able to have access to long-term leases for housing or lines of credit, but are mostly just living paycheck-to-paycheck in month-by-month long-stay apartment-hotels.
>>
>>78562148
Yeah. I'd imagine that in C/D zones the cops might hassle you if you aren't broadcasting, but they won't be around much. The stuffer shack on the corner probably asks for a SIN, but they'll accept just about any random alphanumeric code and won't bother to verify it.

Actually, this has got me thinking. What percentage of jobs are filled by the SINless? Are most manual labor or low-skill jobs done by SINners or what? Supposedly around a third of the population in Seattle doesn't have a SIN, but the population numbers published are pretty sketchy anyways.
>>
>>78562411
I can't imagine any reason a corp would ever want to give a SIN to manual labor or low skill jobs, and I can't imagine any nation would ever want those people to have them either.

The moment you have a SIN, someone is responsible for you. You can vote, you can own property, you can take out a line of credit, you can can qualify for support. And the big thing that corporations and nations get in return? You can pay taxes. But if you're making that little money, you're either not getting taxed or the corp/gov is making so little back that they're losing money by letting you be a human being.
>>
>>78562501
Though that implies that all UCAS citizens have white-collar jobs, which seems unlikely, quite frankly.
>>
>>78562795
Well, remember that in order to participate in the Global SIN Registry, you have to give up to 90% of your legally-recognized citizens basic SINs. But that does not mean that you have to give 90% of the population SINs.
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>>78562795
Nations subsidise corporate jobs for their citizens.
>>
>>78563239
Somewhat confused as to what you mean by this.

>>78563197
Wait, so you can be a citizen without having a SIN.
>>
>>78563623
>Somewhat confused as to what you mean by this.
Some amount of national SINners' jobs are subsidised by the nation. The jobs are corporate-owned. To get them to their citizens, nations pay for the privilege.
>>
>>78555693
>just that if you're not broadcasting a SIN, things
You don't broadcast shit in old shadowrun. A credstick is like your wallet today: it contains all your money and identifying infomation, and you can get in trouble for not having it with you in certain places, but no one can tell you don't have it just by casually glancing at you.
>>
>>78563717
Oh I see. That makes sense.
>>
>>78563732
>no one can tell you don't have it just by casually glancing at you.
This is where I think they were teetering on the edge by having writers with different ideas in 4e, and fucked up by consolidating thought in 5e. Shadowrun as a setting and as a game does not benefit from omni surveillance/sousveillance. Even if you shitwash it and say "There's so much watching everything, it's impossible to keep track of it all!", it breaks things.
Seemingly contradictory; the setting imo works better when fake SINs are more a state of constantly playing to a disguise that is increasingly inconvenient the less you paid for it. As opposed to getting burnt while being read. Then when you head back to whatever lawless hellhole like The Barrens, it's a relative sense of freedom. Despite the risks of murder, crime, etc and general squalor, it's a place where you aren't dodging suspicion by following what your fake SIN says about you. Or you can just exist in that fake life 24/7 while you're not working, with access to hot pockets of all varieties. It's a tradeoff that I didn't think about much starting out.
>>
>>78563732
>>78564042
Also, even in modern Shadowrun, it isn't like not having a SIN makes doors suddenly slam in your face. Gated apartment communities make it very, very, very easy to understand how meaningless not having a SIN is in casual life. I legitimately just got back in from getting some fast food, and as I was entering, I was at the tail end of a chain of 6 vehicles that entered our closed parking lot that requires a card or a resident to buzz you in to enter. The first person in the line had a card, swiped it, and the gates opened. They entered and then the person behind entered without needing to swipe, then enter one person who was waiting on the curb pulled in to follow them, then two people in a nearby parking lot hauled ass to get in before the gate closed, and I was in the rear and swiped my card again.

If this was Shadowrun, those four fucks in the middle could have just as easily been SINless that just got access to my parking lot.
>>
>>78560781
Like the novels? Many of them are quite good, yes.
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>>78565509
Which novels are good? Either older ones or more modern.
>>
>>78563623
>Wait, so you can be a citizen without having a SIN
No, you just don't have to be legally recognized. It's like how EVO is pretty much the only corp to give SINs to fairies.
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>>78564597
Yeah, it's like >>78555693 mentioned the checkpoints between some areas. They're there, but there's no way, say, the border between the city and the barrens can be effectively patrolled.
>>
>>78566018
Oh, I see.
>>
>>78560965
LOG can be have it's downsides, but nobody suffers from putting some extra points to CHA. Being able to talk your way out of situations, handle negotiations over new gear, and getting a couple extra points for contacts is always helpful.
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>>78566902
Log is pretty decent too. Knowledge skills can save your ass.
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>>78567261
I fucking love Knowledge skills, I really do, I'm a huge sucker for the flavor they add, but fuuuuck me Karma is always too tight to excuse putting points into them. It's one of the issues with free-form/open-ended systems like Shadowrun.
>>
>>78567422
Yeah, I always give out a metric shitton of them for free when I'm GMing. Just give them like five skillpoints worth after each session/run.
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>>78567456
Yeah, I've been considering just straight-up asking for Knowledge points based on what we've been doing, kind of like Contacts.
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>>78567456
It might be a good idea to roll free knowledge skills into Lifestyles.
Better your lifestyle? Better access to information and education services. At Street level you're stuck trying to learn from discarded newspapers and free media, so you get two free knowledge skillpoint per month.
At Low, you can access one of the few public libraries still open, and have basic Matrix access, so you get four free points.
At Medium you have average Matrix access and can get subscriptions to books clubs, basic attention-span augmenting drugs, and a distance learning college, so get six.
At High level you can afford personal Matrix tutoring (real or tutorsofts), and enrollment in an actually decent distance learning course. So you get eight.
At Luxury, you can afford the best personal tutors money can buy, super-learning drugs, and futuristic mnemonic technology, so you get ten free skill points per month.
Make Lifestyles great again.
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>>78568590
Eh, correction. Make Street 0 and Squatter 2.
>>
>>78568590
>>78568612
Self- replying, but whatever. Now that I've thought about it this could be a great little system, that also improves the rather lackluster Lifestyle mechanics.
Add a rule that no more than 1 of these free skillpoints can be spent on an individual knowledge skill per month, to stop blitzing up through the ranks in a single month. Extra points must be spent on different skills instead. It encouraging spreading out and developing a more well-rounded character.

You could also do something similar with free Contact points. Higher lifestyles mean being able to afford getting out and meeting more people, bribing more officials, and schmoozing in better establishments. So give out Contact points at the same scale, with the same rule that only a single point can be spent on each individual contact per month.

Suddenly lifestyles become very important, and players are encouraged to maintain the highest one that they can afford, with Face-style characters put under pressure to maintain the sort of standards they are expected to.
>>
>>78568590
Lifestyles already affect daily edge refresh, allergies, general state of appearance, neighbours, security of anything you can't carry and watch 24/7, etc etc.
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>>78568676
Not in 5e, unless your GM is feeling creative.
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>>78568788
Yes, in 5e.
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>>78568791
Timewasteranon, is that you? You've come back to us? Please don't.
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>>78568884
The timewaster was in you all along.
>>
>>78568791
f a l s e
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>>78570443
Using spaces between letters to emphasise how you have nothing to say. Nice touch.
>>
>>78570480
>>78568924
You know, if you were actually right you'd have given a page number by now.
>>
>>78570443
>>78570778
Please don't feed timewasteranon. He's a known article and he does this a lot.
>>
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>>78568676
Here's what it looks like when a game has Lifestyles that do actually effect a character moreso than as a simple fluff descriptor.
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>>78570778
If you had an actual thing you were disagreeing with, you'd have been specific instead of giving the equivalent of "nyeah your wrong". Run & Gun exists. Edge refresh is in the core book.
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>>78570806
Good point, I'll stop. Sorry.
>>
>>78518893 here, fucking with the bike rules. How autisticly detailed do you all want them to be?

>Simple: Just one generic bike, makes walking movement STRx5, running STRx10, use Ground Craft+STR to "sprint". -2 penalty to other actions while riding. Any modifiers to speed from external factors (slope, terrain, etc) left up to GM. No acceleration, modifications, or bike stats beyond price (since avail is -)
So easy it's already done. Accuracy to IRL is questionable but close enough.

>Complex: Several typical types of bike (Normal, Mountain, Recumbent) with varying Handling, Body, Armor, Walk, and Run stats. Acceleration depends on rider and conditions. Typical modifiers for speeds based off conditions. Simplified rules for using bike in Chase combat. Can use some vehicle/drone mods.
Requires notably more work and balance/realism checking. Accuracy to IRL is decent. Ends up occupying an odd space between vehicle and personal rules. May be able to add wheelchairs to this easily enough.

>Cripplingly autistic: Literal physics equations you solve that are then converted into SR movement rates. Entirely new autistic set of modifications just for bikes.
Pretty sure I don't know enough about bikes to do this level. Accuracy to IRL is supreme but also crippling.
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>>78571850
Just simple. Who gives a fuck about bicycles in a cyberpunk setting, lmao?
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>>78572154
It should actually be p. popular in some areas if you think about it. Bikes are p. efficient and relatively speaking dirt cheapl
>>
In Shadowrun 5e, how do you balance for the sheer power of summoned spirits?

With my current GM, I just have a straight agreement with him that I will just not summon high force spirits because I have also GMed Shadowrun and know that spirits are kind of busted.
>>
>>78573135
I wonder how 'ware affected bicycling. Does the Tour de France allow cyber legs now?
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>>78573135
Public transit is cheaper, more efficient, allows you to actually react to aggression, and won't get stolen by a trog.
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>>78573199
Replace all stats being based off Force with all stats being based off 2+1/2 Force. F1-3 spirits get slightly buffed, F5+ spirits get notably nerfed. And remove or halve Immunity to Normal Weapons.
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>>78573199
You sorta just don't and either ban conjurers or have a gentleman's agreement. I played a conjurer for exactly one session, realized that I could single-handedly do runs solo, that combat would be impossible for the GM to balance without making the rest of the party more worthless due to the powergap, and that once I could Channel, I would basically just be piloting a mecha.

Alternatively, have a cool GM and make that same gentleman's agreement but limit yourself exclusively to summoning Blackjacks.
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>>78568672
Ths is interesting, I'm probably adopting this. Out of curiosity, how much downtime do you generally give in your games?
>>
>>78573312
What's a Blackjack?
>>
>>78573199
Removing Immunity to Normal Weapons (or at least halving it) goes a long way, but just agreeing to self-limit is a big part of it.
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>>78573417
It's a Spirit of Black Trenchcoat Runners.
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>>78573417
'Spirit of Shadowrunner Black Trenchcoats'. The alternative is summoning an Anarch, which is a 'Spirit of Shadowrunner Pink Mohawks'.
They're fun, but easily exploitable if the player is a munchkin.
>>
>>78573199
With my group, we've just cranked up the pulling on the lease rules

Anything Force 4 and above is subject to testing your willpower against the spirit. Realistically, if you're using a F5+ spirit, their attributes will be bigger, and they can break the leash, since you don't deserve to be controlling them.
>>
Out of curiosity given the immensity of the item. What is an appropriate reward for turning in Excalibur to the Draco Foundation.
>>
>>78573417
In addition to what the others stated, they can be utilizes in a really fun way so that you're basically playing a metaphysical fixer. Keep a half-dozen or so boltholes around the sprawl loaded to the brim with guns and gear, a parking spot here or there. And now snap your fingers, your party has the support of sniper fire from an adjacent rooftop. Snap your fingers, your party has a Roadmaster slamming through the fence to pick you up for a hot extraction. Snap your fingers, and black-masked tac team hits the compound's main entrance providing a distraction while your team slips in the back.
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>>78573341
Average of 1 'Run every two weeks, to give characters time to do legwork before the mission, and recuperate after it. So every two 'Runs they would get the bonus Knowledge/Contact points.
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>>78573779
A happy retirement
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>>78573199
How about instead of nerfing the spirits you increase the amount of drain you suffer for summoning? Make every spirit able to blow your head.
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>>78573792
Alternatively, shout out a catchphrase and suddenly you have an anarchist on call to fuck shit up with improvised weapons.
Rar rar, fight the Power.
>>
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>>78573779
Given how poorly Excalibur worked and how picky DF is when it comes to giving shit out: picrel
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>>78573884
>>78573832
So we have opinions ranging from: Retirement (a vague descriptor at best since it doesn't account for those who want to build their own megacorp off the back of Shadowrunning or thrillseekers) or absolutely nothing but a title.
>>
>>78573199
Drain out the ass, and play up just how individual spirits actually are, and how some of them really, really dislike what you're doing. Losing control of powerful spirits that you have summoned yourself should be a real concern.
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>>78573477
Oh, and this. Some spirits should be immune to normal weapons, but far from all.
>>
>>78573779
The most important question before you can get a real answer is:
>Is it just the sword, or does it also include the scabbard?
Because the scabbard's the real treasure per Merlin himself, and just bringing the Draco Foundation the sword is just bringing half of the total package.
>>
>>78573966
Somehow this post just read dirty.
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>>78573966
Sword and Scabbard.
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>>78573826
Cool, thanks.
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>>78574002
Then yeah, retirement.
>>
>>78571850
I like the Complex setup. A few different types of bikes and some mods makes it easy to stat out a Combat Biker
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>>78573966
What's so special about the scabbard?
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>>78573259
>cheaper
Only in the short term. 20 nuyen a week adds up, although ironically it's less expensive than my irl pass
>more efficient
Only if the routes actually go where you want, when you want it. It could be 20 minutes by car, 30 on a bike, and 85 by bus with two transfers and a 20 minute wait in the middle.
>react to aggression
Are you kidding? A bus is the worst place, stuck in a vehicle under some else's control, no one able or willing to help, and to boot you're probably getting filmed by a security camera, so if you pull a Roomsweeper to protect yourself you're the one escalating. On a bike you ride away, and if the problem can't be outpedaled you can at least get out onto firm ground.
t. Was on a bus a couple weeks ago with a woman doing whippits in the back and loudly threatening to burn someone's skin off for looking at her, took 15 minutes to get to a station at which point she jumped off, transit cops got on, said that they knew who she was from past incidents, and they'll see if they can find her.
>>
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>>78518856
>The part now has a bounty on them from and probably high up on the shit list of Saeder Krupp because of a job that turned out to probably be a setup.
Fuck.
>>
>>78575740
there's only one place left for you
>>
>>78575836
My character would rather accept his fate to be murdered fucked in atlanta than move to Quebec.
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>>78575913
Better poutine than pureed, anon. Spend a couple months living innawoods and popping Infected for beer money.
>>
>>78573966
Wait, when did Merlin show up?
>>
>>78575740
Hey, does it involve a dryad? Because I know this one. We're fucked.
>>
>>78577596
No but it involves a blood spirit and some unknown entity who wants me dead.
>>
The Shadowrun wiki seems to indicate on the CFS page that Pueblo has started taking control of Cali's central valley in the north, but I can't find anything else about it. Anyone know anything about it?
>>
>>78578398
I think there's a mention of this in Neo-Anarchist's Streetpedia.
>>
>>78573199
We discussed this a little a thread or two ago. I'm the 3e anon from said thread, so I'm not overly familiar with all of 5e's quirks, but it did seem like 3e offers some options that 5e doesn't have or nerfed heavily.

First and foremost, reinstate the "Force of will" melee attack that anyone (awakened or not) can make on a spirit. Reach bonuses apply, to hit roll uses willpower, spirit uses Force to defend, damage is (Charisma) Moderate. Most importantly, ItNW does NOT apply. This gives every team a fighting chance to take on a materialized spirit that is fucking with them.

Second, have ingame security (and other opposing) forces treat spirits with the severity they deserve. A spirit can do as much damage as a troll with a PAC braced on their hip, and should therefore draw a similar response from whomever the PCs are fighting. If the enemies can't escalate to match (like a mundane small-time gang), keep in mind that neighboring forces (the wizzer gang a block over, or that Lone Star patrol) might take an interest themselves in seeing magical big guns come out, causing complications. And if the enemies can't escalate and are isolated enough that no one else is around to interfere...fuck it, let the PCs cut loose. That kind of situation should be a vanishingly rare treat for them.
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>>78574577
IIRC Authurian Legend correctly, anyone who bore the scabbard didn't bleed, no matter how bad their wound was. So not immortality by any stretch, but still a pretty sweet deal when it comes to surviving shit that would otherwise kill you. Not sure how I'd translate that to SR mechanics. No penalty from wounds and auto stabilize when knocked into overflow?
>>
>>78579710
You happen to recall which book that's in? It's not in The Death of Arthur and that's the only one I actually own, and my Arthurian encyclopedia is being unhelpful.
>>
>>78579791
Le Morte D'arthur, french title but in English and written by an English knight, Sir Thomas Malory.

https://americanenglishdoctor.com/king-arthur%E2%80%99s-sword-excalibur/
>>
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>>78572154
>>78574519
Well I put both in this first go at it. Shoved in wheelchairs and unicycles because they're close enough (just wheelchairs are obviously arm strength, instead of leg strength).
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>>78580114
Cool, thank you.
>>
>>78580299
I did not know I wanted to create an evil unicycle gang until this moment.
I might also make them mimes, just to rub it in.
Hopefully Harlequin doesn't show up.
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>>78580299
There should probably be a mechanized wheelchair, something a little better than electric backup.
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>>78580299
I appreciate the training wheels notes.
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>>78580299
>but you look like a bitch
Just imagine trying to get a Johnson or go gangers to take you seriously when you roll up on a bike with training wheels
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>>78580991
I think that's the best possible way to assert your dominance over them.
>>
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>>78580991
I dunno, chummer. Only a complete badass would risk having those things in THIS neighbourhood.
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>>78554353
>since he can't banish for shit,
But then again who can?
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>>78581136
Seriously. Those rules are busted.
>>
Gonna feel good to run again. Starting back in probably a month or so, and haven't been running anything but Lancer since... well, the 'rona started. Looking forward to cranking back on the Pandora station, tricking myself into spending more time on the Google Map, and seeing what mistakes my idiots can make.
>>
>>78533623
>>78533818
>>78535003
So what book is summoning Shadowrunner spirits in? Googling zenocorporatum literally just gives 4 links, which are all to this fucking thread.
>>
>>78581789
Howling Shadows. Where else would the shadowrunner spirits be than the critter book? :^)
>>
>>78581761
Good luck, chummer.
>>
Quick, /srg/! Post the name of the gangs in your sprawl! Names only, though, let the mystery suffuse your offerings. And if you see something that someone posts that you're curious about, ask 'em what it is!
>Hatuey
>Dukes of La Ardobela
>South Dixie Splitters
>Cienfuegos
>3rd Avenue Vagos
>Brickell Banditos
>Marielitos
>the House of Jah
>Carne Molar
>Steel Toe Union
>Nova Rich
>Razor Angels
>Los Kangz
>Homestead Racers
>Crunch Time
>Key Cutters
>War Pigs
>Black Caeser's Buccaneers
>>
>>78582731
And actually, the other sprawl that I plan on running in that I haven't had the chance yet...
>Bloody Howlers
>the Cossacks
>the Zanevsky Gang
>Meatgrinders
>Soldiers of Rust
>Vittuperkele
>Reaktor
>Night Hunters
>the Koscheis
>Brainblasters
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>>78582731
I don't feel like my names leave much to the imagination
>Pit Vipers
>Hotel Moscow
>1000 year royals
>Children of Oden
>>
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>>78582731
>Rice Paddy Cyclists (Japanese-Irish go-gang)
>Franklin Family
>Dhaka
>Sludge Slurpers
>Squirrel Girl Simps
>Suspension Sultans
>Swat Sultans
>McFeelies
>Patriots
>Cassocks
>>
>>78538685
>>78539372
Just find a trustworthy doc, and pay off the price difference between the bundle and the parts to get them to remove the wifi advertising. You'll still be saving on essence.
>>
>>78583068
Sauce, bauce?
>>
>>78583068
>Swat Sultans
>not Sultans of SWAT
>>
page 10
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>>78583978
Make a new thread if you wanna fix t.
>>
>>78580556
Once I had the players fight a mime on a unicycle.
It used astral walls to produce ramps, and had razors along the rim of its cycle to help in running the players over.
>>
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Hey, how much does a Roomba cost in Shadowrun?



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