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A continuation of the past three threads
>>78152799

We move to another part of the world for this one. Breaking away from europe and the indus valley for now, we go to India to discuss the Indian Bronze Age as a fantasy setting. The mahabharata perhaps might be a very important part of this one.
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>>78298441
not much of a jump, from indus valley to india
alas, while I have some indus valley material, i have literally NOTHING for india proper, except that they had some of the world’s most advanced metallurgy
>>
>>78298441
What led to the rise of India in the Bronze Age world that we could translate to a fantasy setting?

What are some key things about Ancient India that most people forget?
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>>78298565
>they had some of the world’s most advanced metallurgy
Really? Neat. Why was this exactly?
>>
Anyone got recommended reading list?
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>>78303760
GURPS Low tech and the three companions are pretty good.
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>>78298565
>>78299170
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinauli
That is a find predated the Aryan Invasion theory.

Also a number of the cultures became the Ochre Pottery Culture in the gangetic plain.

Though the claim of no war is BS, there definitely was a more peace and trade oriented existence and it is likely, though controversial, that they contracted fighting out to more warlike tribes that they traded with.

Horns were considered as a sign of a chieftains and elites would wear them during specific times, though when is unknown. They were accomplished builders and mathematicians and had their own language and were innovative, as they apparently invented the first buttons along with dental surgery.

Weapons wise everything in the Sinauli find should work.
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>>78303846
Alright, what exactly are so good about those books? And how are they relevant to the thread topic again?
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>>78304606
There's some Bronze Age stuff in a bigger context.
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>>78298441
What about gods and religion in Ancient India? How early did Hinduism as we know it today develop?
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>>78309831
Between 800 BCE and 200 BCE, so too late for the Bronze Age. You may want to take a look at the Vedic religion instead.
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>>78309831
Easy answer for a game that would sell: matriarchal pre-Aryan Dravidian culture worshipping Shiva lingams, Shri yantras and what have you.

Check out Amma, who lives down in south India. The language is basically the same stuff as Finnish.

Also, check out Dark Crystal the Jim Henson movie for nice Neolithic matriarchal vibes.
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>>78303760
What about non-RPG books?
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>>78314974
Wikipedia seems OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history
>>
How long would it take to travel on land from Mesopotamia to India?
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>>78318259
You'd go through Elam, or proto-Persia. That'd be a standard Silk Road Trip. Take the speed of a camel and calculate.
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>>78298441
Besides Nagas, which are the obvious choice, what are some good choices for fantasy races in an India-themed Bronze Age setting?
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>>78319135
The monkey people. Think Hanuman and Journey to the West
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>>78319135

I suppose the cultures of India that historically practiced Jainism would be Firbolgs, not quite sure about the rest. I personally think either Nagas or Yuan-Ti could work for the Xia-era Chinese-equivalent.
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>>78319157
There’s an interesting idea I just had, could they be the Monkey King’s actual descendants?
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>>78321233
Why not? Have them build cities into the faces of cliffs and in the canopies of giant yggdrasil-sized trees. Make them a merry people with a strong tradition of brewing and a stronger tradition of practical jokes.
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>>78321502
Alright, that sounds interesting, but are you just mashing together traits from both elves and dwarves here?
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>>78319321
>Firbolgs
What's a more Indian-sounding name for them?
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>>78326629
Yakshas, Kumbhakas, Gandharvas and Nagas are all standard Buddhist creatures.
Yakshas and Gandharvas are pretty standard spirit types. Yakshas are neutral and Gandharvas are usually good.
Rakshashas are cannibals monsters, much like the Ogres of Runequest.
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>>78298565
Isn't the distance from the Indus to India thousands of miles?
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>>78329256
More like 25,000, or near enough.
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>>78330381
>25,000
That's still thousands, but thanks for that. Regardless, how long would that have taken to travel back then?
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>>78316492
But just about anyone can mess with a Wikipedia article for kicks. That's why most schools don't let you use it as a source.
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>>78298441
Why did Bronze Age civilizations progress and advance in the "Old" World, while in the Americas they remained at a significantly lower level of technological advancement for millennia until the colonials crossed the seas? What was the difference?
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>>78337011
They settled late and still had a host of delicious giant mammals to eat.
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>>78337011
Also, there were still stone age peoples living in proximity to Bronze-age cities. Some ancient texts mention hunter-gathering tribes attacking their city.
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>>78330381
How long would it have taken for some to travel from the Indus to India, or vice versa? What are the major routes?
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>>78312258
>Matriarchal.
>Literally worshiping benis.
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>>78341514
What are you talking about? How did they worship... that?
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>>78342043
A shiva lingam is literally a dick.
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>>78333020
>>78339718
Erm, the Indus River is in Pakistan, which is right beside India; so, like, a couple days?
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>>78342129
It's not literally a dick. It's a representation of the fundamental masculine aspect of creation.
But it's basically a dick.
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>>78344466
Fine, it's metaphorically a dick.
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>>78344688
A metaphorical? Eh,its the dick of Shiva to be exacts. Frey and Freya also represent the Male and female for the norths for example, Yin-Yang if you want to go there.
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>>78344688
You would know. XD But seriously, why do you care about that so much?
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>>78298441
>ctrl+F "Dark Sun" "Athas"
>0 results
read Dark Sun
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>>78298441
What was architecture like in Ancient India?
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>>78337011
According to “Guns, Germs and Steel,” a lack of widely available crops and domesticable animals. Eurasia is east-west, and crops are often latitude dependant, so crops could spread across the old world. The americas, being north-south, didn’t have that. So the Incas could crow potatoes and the Cherokee could grow corn, but their crops were adapted to specific latitudes and could not easily spread.
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>>78356605
>crops are often latitude dependant
But if that’s the case, how can we grow Old World crops in the New World, and vice versa?
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>>78356605
“Guns, Germs and Steel” is trash though. It's oversimplifying everything and cherry-picking its examples.
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>>78357503
because ships brought them from one latitude to the same latitude in a different area. Also our latitudes are mirrored across the equator. A seed may spread a few miles every generation, but it wont cross an ocean easily.

See, most of europe is in the same latitudes as northern america, notable exceptions being the bottom edge of the US and mexico on down. So those crops will grow in similar areas. Europe and north america also share mirrored latitudes with argentina and parts of chile, which means crops from those regions also grow well up here.
>>
>>78298441
Conan, (but that is also iron age)...
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>>78354705
The square pops up in Harappan city ruins. It was quite popular all over, in ziggurats and pyramids.
You'd have to extrapolate quite a lot to create a setting in pre-Aryan India, so maybe it would be better to create a pan-Eurasian matriarchal pre-chariot fantasy setting with a whole bunch of Nostratic languages.
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>>78361318
I seen the matriarchal being said a few times, but what are the proves they were matriarcal, matrilineal or anything like that? I only remember one whole culture than is actually a matriarchy and is in some mountains of china and barely survives as they bleed males like crazy.
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>>78362220
It's speculation inspired by bare-titted statues. Makes good drama. Maybe not fully female-run, but more so than charioteering warrior cultures.
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>>78362267
So its all speculation, about bare tittied statues? They know the climate was hotter than todays 3k years ago and lots of tribes are bare tittied and the males are the chieftains and shamans too (like nearly all africa, papua nova guinea etc)?
You are taking me for a fool or something? There must be true proves about that if they are so sure about that.
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>>78362441
You make your game world, you can speculate. I like the characters of Dido and Cleopatra.
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>>78333020
>>78330381
>25.000 miles is the other side of the fucking planet. Its a 1000 km
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>>78362267
>>78362441
> grug pajeet: me like big titty woman! me make statue of big titty woman
"Obviously this society was run by women"
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>>78357689
Alright, if it's so trashy, what resources would you recommend instead? Speak up now.
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>>78298441
What should someone travelling back in time to Ancient India keep in mind? Especially if they're importing modern knowledge and technology as to conquer the world?
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>>78367155
Resources on what?
If you mean a book explaining why some societies are less technologically advanced than other, I don't know a good one. This question doesn't have a simple answer.
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>>78370078
Well, if you're disparaging Guns Germs and Steel, what would you recommend that we use instead, at the very least. Maybe an article somewhere? Anything?
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>>78337011
I always figured shitty weather forced people to advance tech. The shittiest weather around (deserts and near-tundra) forced canaanites, egyptians, mesopotamians, europeans & company to enhance their tech. Places where you can get by with less tech, like where it's warm, you just don't need to advance as much. On the contrary to that, the Incans were pretty advanced on their own, and North American weather can be supremely shit, so I really just don't know.
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>>78357725
Exactly. Also these days we know much more about selective breeding to create varieties of crops that do well in different conditions - to say nothing of advancements in fertilizers, pest control, genetic engineering, etc.
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>>78362220
I think the idea that pre-IE was matriarchal came a lot from Gimbutas' interpretation of evidence from Cucuteni-Trypillia, where women are represented way more than men in art, and it seems they weren't big in warfare either. If the women statues were goddesses, then it would imply goddesses were more important than gods since there are like no explicitly male statues iirc.
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>>78373232

You were already told that no such thing exists - the book, and all the others like it, is popular because it offers simple answers to complex questions. But in reality no such answers exist, other than the universal one: "sheer chance". Make something up.
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>>78298441
How could a Bronze Age setting have something similar to today's gender equality?
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>>78373897
Everyone farms and everyone works. From the division of labor comes an equitable division of land ownership and economic participation. For reasons of either peaceful co-existence or a lack of dangerous enemies there's little incentive for a masculine warrior class to upset the balance of power seen in a society where the primary and secondary focus is on farming and providing for a family. Glory, honor, plunder, are all things that just aren't prized by this society and it has yet to be violently shown the error of its ways.
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>>78375193
Would magic being gender-neutral help? If both men and women were equally likely to be magically talented, I mean.
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>>78375193
>Everyone farms and everyone works
That's kinda the default situation right up to the Industrial Revolution.
You're probably right about the lack of a warrior class though.
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>>78373600
Those are very weak links specially with so much stuff than could have simply not being preserved desu, we know the majority of cultures prefered to do stuff in lumber in they zone, if they did like the slavs or Basques, they would revere trees and the sky as the male principle and caves and water holes as the female. I tought the links to the matriarchy were a lot harder desu.
>>
For dramatic purposes, it's often interesting to make the rulers of rival societies of opposite sex. That's why, for a game that would sell, one would most definitely make the leader archetype of Old Europe a bare-titted nature goddess, brewing some potions.
In Runequest, the leaders of Esrolia are exactly barechested priestesses.

Of course, in real life, things are not so stark. Even the Indo-Europeans have pretty mellow stuff in the oldest layers of the Rig-Veda, without Indra, perhaps coming from a common Eurasian root. The Turkic people's Tengri is very similar to Dyaus the blue-sky god.

Thunder worship comes from Teshub in Anatolia, as far as I know.
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>>78378429
So, the reason the societies oppose each other is because the leaders have unresolved sexual tension that they can't just deal with?
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>>78381239
The tension is symbolic of material and technological pressure. Sex is the motor behind populations, and gets crystallized into drama.
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>>78381760
Okay, you lost a bit. Could explain a bit more, like Shirou is asking?
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>>78298441
What was Bronze Age Indian armor and weaponry like?
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>>78384727
Mesolithic farmers live peaceful lives symbolized by the softness of a woman's bosom. Chariot-riding steppe nomads, in contrast, are more Mad Max in outlook, and have a hard leatherskin style.

You can have two chariot-riding princes, maybe of different clans, fighting for the most beatiful Old European princess. The princess might have righteous brother who saves the good Aryan prince and eventually becomes best man. Then there should be an envious Aryan princess. Decide how many people die according to how family-friendly level of storytelling you aspire to.
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>>78388126
Not mesolithic, neolithic or whatever.
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>>78319135
Goblins are perfect for crowded Indian cities. My goblins draw heavily on gypsies anyway so India makes sense as the place for the Goblin Kingdoms.
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>>78337011
>saami culture dominant in places that have had teutonic settlements since the ice melted
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>>78388355
>typical teutonic incel butthurt
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>>78388277
How are your goblins like gypsies? And are gypsies really “Indian”?
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>>78391622
Linguistic, genetic, and textual evidence all point to an origin somewhere in India, yes.
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>>78298441
What resources did Bronze Age India have? How did it extract them?
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>>78309831
It happened when whites conquered India for the first time
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>>78393207
Bronze Age India had Bronze
And cows
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When Alexander went to India, he brought back WAR ELEPHANTS. They handle like tanks.
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>>78394876
Aren’t those more for intimidation than anything else? Didn’t one commander find that out the hard way?
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>>78394852
>cows
Alright, when and where were they first domesticated?
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>>78398218
>sauce
Please provide one to back up your claims.
>>
GURPS Low-tech Companion 3
>Although their ancestors were hunted through the Paleolithic, cattle were probably domesticated around 6500 B.C., in the Near East. ...
>Live cattle provide both food and extremely useful labor. Effective plow harnesses for oxen (castrated bulls) are unsophisticated, allowing people to use these animals to help till fields starting in very early TL1. ...
>... The drawback of cattle is their great size. Even the relatively small, underfed beasts of centuries past weighed close to half a ton apiece. As inefficient grazers, they required significant land for support. They also packed a great deal of value into a single animal, making them attractive targets for thieves.
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>>78400853
>>78402629
>modern cattle breeds are descended from multiple independent domestication events of the wild aurochs (Bos primigenius) ∼10,000 y ago. Two primary areas of domestication in the Middle East/Europe and the Indian subcontinent resulted in taurine and indicine lines of cattle, respectively
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3625352/
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>>78394852
>And cows
No other domesticated animals? just cows?
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>>78405835
Chickens come from there, probably tamed elephants too. If they are pre arians, no horses tough.
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>>78405835
I'd say that goats are also raised, and they probably do ALOT of vegetable farming.
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>>78394876
As far as I know, the Diadochi loved using them, but there are barely any records of them being successful.
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>>78391622
Partially assimilated petty criminals roaming around the countryside with loyalty to family tradition. Honestly most monster races have a similar geopolitical logic to them in most fantasy settings.
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>>78356605
Here, it is trash.
>>78370078
>>78337011
Whites create society.
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>>78337011
Not exactly related but I think theories of pre-columbian discovery of the americas could make up for an interesting bronze age setting.
Phoenician discovery of america is exactly the kind of pseudo-history I dig.
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>>78367155
>>78373232
Imagine seething this hard that someone said your favorite pop historian was trash lmao
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>>78373897
By worshiping a hermaphrodite god
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>>78373897
Zero sexual dimorphism, somehow.
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>>78298441
What did Bronze Age peoples tend to believe about demons and evil spirits?
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>>78413631
depends on the locale, but "demons" and "evil spirits" were probably a pretty nebulous category. In general, I think that anyone in direct contact with the Near East (Canaan, Sumer, & friends) saw demons as somewhat metaphysical, and other groups not in contact with them saw them as more literal. The big question though is how you define "demon" and "evil spirit". For example, "giants" often fit into the same roles as "demons" in mythology (siding with an evil villain, trying to control the cosmos, having a penchant for murder, commonly breaking social norms, underworld-related homes, etc), but most people today would not think of giants as demons.
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>>78412717
>Zero sexual dimorphism, somehow.
Fantasy race with little difference between the genders physically. Easy.
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>>78413631
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNNaZ110ee4
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>>78413631
That's a big topic than changed a lot from place to place. But they tought everything was conected to a spirit, beign it good or bad.
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>>78412618
Besides picture related, was that actually very common though? What is the story with picture related anyway?
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>>78417913
>changed a lot from place to place.
What about some particular places then?
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>>78415078
>depends on the locale,
What specific examples do you have?
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>>78417386
Thanks for the video link. Do you have any more please?
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>>78425301
not him, but irving finkel talks about a lot of mesopotamian stuff, could just search for his lectures
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>>78425354
Finkel is a treasure.
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>>78362220
If you're still interested, anon, I've just found a mention that Picts in Late Antiquity had matrilineal succession, which is considered to be a remnant of an earlier matriarchy.
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>>78426195
>]
Yeah, but matrilineal is far from being a matriarchy, those are just grasping at straw.
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>>78298441
How did humans make the metallurgical leap to the Bronze Age anyway?
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>>78429245
This video might help you with that. Short answer is that we don't fully know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vDDMYyhLBw
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>>78337011
You believe in lies. Look up the LIDAR surveys of the Amazon, there were civilizations in South America that were just as large, populous, and advanced as any European nation of the time, but disease wiped them all out LONG before the Euros ever got there.
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>>78429447
What about how we ended up moving from the Bronze Age into the Iron Age?
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>>78429681
>Look up the LIDAR surveys of the Amazon,
Why don’t you provide a link so we know that it’s factual?
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>>78430247
The most accepted hypothesis AFAIK is that after the Late Bronze Age collapse the trade networks that brought copper and tin together to make bronze were disrupted, which made people switch to iron, which at the time was no better than bronze and harder to make, but didn't require two different ores from two different places.
"Most accepted" doesn't mean "very much accepted" though. Some people think that ironworknig was the cause of the collapse, for example.
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>>78433387
I think anon might have meant this: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/maya-laser-lidar-guatemala-pacunam
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>>78433563
That's not in the Amazonia, so that anon might have mixed it up with this: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-find-clock-face-layout-amazon-villages-180976553/
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>>78409254
Cope, irrelevant anon
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>>78298441
I am currently working on a setting and after delving into a bit, I found out, that the Iron Age would fit very well for it, so I coming to you guys. How do you think, humanity would have evolved, if everyone had wings on their backs to fly with? Especially, how would warfare evolve?

I so far was thinking that especially polearms would be popular, since they are light, give a lot of reach to defend and attack and when you could make most use of a air-charge with them. Also bows might be difficult to use while mid-air, since drawing them involves your shoulders a lot, another anon in a thread a while back pointed that out.
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>>78434681
I think polearms would interfere with the wings. I would give them shorter, stabbing weapons.
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>>78429681
Except they weren’t as advanced as Europe at all. They could stack rocks but that’s about it. They didn’t even have steel; they were Bronze Age in the renaissance era.
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>>78362220
It’s actually fan fiction by a feminist archeologist that was popularized some decades ago, but has since fallen out of favor thanks to real archeologists.
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>>78434681
I imagine armor would have to be kept light. So probably no full plate angels. I think most of the more protective armor would be reserved for the wings, which would be a major target for enemies, cause they'd have to be really large if you wanted a human to be able to fly, something like a 23 foot wingspan. If you mange to mess up just one wing you can render a person flightless for life if they survive the plummet to the ground.
People that lost the ability to fly would have to shoot projectiles and open topped cities/castles would be vulnerable, so they'd need to be closed topped somehow. If they have talons instead of human feet they might be able to use them to attack/use weapons as well.
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>>78434868
at least tell me that moon-goddess based matriarchal socities were real before the patriachal skygod worshippers enslaved womxnkind??!?
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>>78434681
Projectils of course,even simple throwing knifes will be a lot more efective, and small blades for close combat. Wining the heights would be paramour for them. Some totemic weapons like metal claws, perhaps nets to ensnare.
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>>78434751
Caelum is a race of winged humanoids in dominions 5 and they too use a lot of short stabbing spears, and the more skilled do a swooping attack utilizing a lance. I think they'd go into battle with several different spears and javelins, mostly flying over the enemies and throwing things down into them.

They also have magical ice forging powers and form armour and weapons that are more effective in colder environments, but they're smaller and more fragile than normal humans, due to being able to fly. They have a caste of warriors that cut off their wings so as to sacrifice their need to be thin but they're juiced up on bless steroids to be mostly effective since they're still manlets

Just thought I should mention them since they're the first example of a winged civilization I've seen in a game
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>>78434987
I think dominions is the best bronze/iron age source of inspiration for rpgs, even better than glorantha as it has lots of more cool monsters and cultures.
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>>78434751
Hm, that true, that is maybe something to factor into, I should give according boni / mali to weapon lenghts. I will admit, that is to some part to me liking the aesthetic and one of the few factions I fleshed out at this point has for cultural reasons a massive hardon for warscythes, long flails etc.
>>78434893
Wouldn't armor on the wings interfere with their movement? But yeah, I also tought about that, giving players a max carry weight and half of that or less as flying carry weight.
>>78434981
Yeah, I also tought of slings and throwing weapons, like javelins beeing the weapon of choice for mid-air range combat.
>>
>>78435006
Yeah, It's one of the few games I've seen where there's a clear divide between different eras and the bronze age is given proper reverance, as opposed to just having iron and steel armour painted bronze

Also one of the few places that has underwater civilizations too, and the different challenges they would face in not being able to forge any metal underwater, but having invading land armies have their iron weapons and armour slowly rust away in their territory is great
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>>78435054
>Wouldn't armor on the wings interfere with their movement?

They'd have to be made segmented, like the way human armor has segments that go over on another at joints, and the armor would have to be limited to just the top of the wing, cause you'd need to have the feathers uncovered to fly.
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>>78435255
Also you could have other armor than just Plate. A gambeson would work just fine, chain mail probably not cause it's just too heavy. Boars tusk helmets were popular in the bronze age, so something like that might not be out of place as well. Gives protection without weighing much. Wooden armor was also used in various places, like Japan.
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>>78309831
>How early did Hinduism as we know it today develop?

20st century. The shit we´re dealing with right now is a fundie revival movement.
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>>78435055
It's such an autistic mix match than is simply great. Also giants, being them canibalistic jewish ones or big bois nordics is fun as fuck. Tough my prefered has ever been Ermor.
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>>78435340
I don't think you can armor wings and still be able to fly. IRL birds have hollow bones and lost their fucking teeth to get as light as possible. And that's not even accounting for the fact that the further down a limb armor is, the more it's interfering with movement.
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>>78434897
Everybody knows that the world lived in harmony until the Brutish Penis Monsters attacked and ruined everything
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>>78435340
>Wooden armor was also used in various places, like Japan.
you get your lore from video games?
wooden japanese armour was THEATRE armour
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>>78437244
This is true, but wooden armor was used in other places. Natives of both of the Americas, as well as Pacific islands, used wooden armor to great effect.
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>>78437309
yeah, like the Tlingit, but they aint japanese
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>>78437244
They used bamboo armor, but at about sengok it was probably used only be the poorest ashigaru (heck, probably even had a resurgence during the Tokugawa period thanks to being lightweight, but that's speculation) , and yayoi used wooden (as with our time period in the thread, those are the ones than interest us).
It ain't that rare, the Chuckhy lived next to them and used Bone and leather armors.
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>>78437765
got any source on this being combat armour?
I would love to be proven wrong
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>>78437826
I will have to trawl the Zohyo Monogatari but its been 10 years since I abandoned my weeb years and moon runes irk me.
>>
isnt there a suit of chinese stone armour?
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>>78430247
>>78433499
It's also important to note that different areas went through different metallurgical advancements. We've found very little evidence in West Africa for the development of large-scale bronzeworking, but we've found plenty of evidence for domestic ironworking around 750-400 BCE. West Africa wasn't included on those trade networks, so the question then comes - where and why did they develop their own ironworking? The Inca were clearly capable of sophisticated metallurgy, but stuck with bronze because of its ready availability in the Andes. The technological leap from iron to bronze isn't as far as some people think it is, and early iron is absolute fucking garbage in comparison to bronze so if you're in a position in which you can produce bronze over iron you'll produce the cheaper, better, more familiar, easier to repair, easier to produce version of something. I really cannot stress enough how trash early iron was. It's not something you move to unless you have to and until the process gets refined to produce better quality steel you're legitimately better off with copper-alloys.
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>>78337011
The America's had gotten hit by nasty ass droughts that would cripple a copper age civilization. The Anasazi and the Moundbuilders are the most notable due to the fact you can see resources and environmental sustainability declining over time. MesoAmerica only survived by using mass human sacrifice/husbandry as a means of population control. But I think it wasn't necessarily these later cataclysms but whatever happened during the Younger Dryas that fucked up North America.
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>>78337011
Whites and asians
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>>78440384
>Whites and asians
What about them? And don't be racist BTW.
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>>78353038
>Dark Sun
>Bronze age
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>>78337011
Maybe there were better psychedelics in America, and simply less of them. In Eurasia, one civilization has carried the torch while the other has gone through upheavals.
Racially, Americans were supposed to be the same stuff as Siberians.
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>>78444965
What does psychedelics have to do with anything.
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>>78445416
>What does psychedelics have to do with anything.
Ditto, I don't get this either.
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>>78435006
I steal so many ideas from Dominions for my own setting....
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>>78435054
Wouldn't be easier to use the wings for mobility and fight on the ground in most situations? Flight takes a lot of energy, especially for something as unaerodynamic as human, and pretty much guarantees that when you go down... even from something that wouldn't be serious injury, but interferes with your ability to fly... you're dead.
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>>78434751
Against ground targets, just dropping things would work. Against airborne target, it's harder. You'd want to avoid melee as much as possible, because both of you have wingspan longer much longer than your reach, and if you crash into each other, or otherwise disrupt your flight, you'll both fall to your deaths. You can't throw thing accurately, and you can't carry much projectiles anyway. I'm thinking some kind of weightened trailing net would work... get above your opponent, entangle their wing, drop the line to not follow them down. Single use, but effective.
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>>78298441
How does Glorantha rate as a Bronze Age setting? Does it have any India analog culture(s) in it?
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>>78444377
>Objectively correct statements
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>>78319135
Elephant people
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>>78298441
Unlike iron which rusts horribly can tarnished bronze armours and equipment still be used well?
What differences does tarnished bronze have with fresh bronze
Would there be any advantages for a faction use magic to delicately tarnish the bronze Equipment they produce?
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>>78449037
In the anon's settig, every human is supposed to have wings, so every target is ariborne.
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>>78451386
Somebody had to try it. I would be damn surprised if no antiquarian ever tried to smack ancient bronze armor with a bronze sword.
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>>78451386
>Unlike iron which rusts horribly can tarnished bronze armours and equipment still be used well?
Tarnish is a surface layer, it protects the underlying metal from further corrosion. So structurally tarnished bronze items are as good as non-tarnished. I don't know how it influences the edge hardness though.

>What differences does tarnished bronze have with fresh bronze
It doesn't tarnish more and that's about it.

>Would there be any advantages for a faction use magic to delicately tarnish the bronze Equipment they produce?
Nope. It'll tarnish on its own, and if you want to speed up the process you don't need magic, there are many ways to apply decorative patina.
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>>78448647
Man of culture, the idea of the gods fighting every x years to be top dogs is awesome, in my setting I had the Draconomakia, titanomakia and the recent gigantomakia than was only 500 years before the setting era.
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>>78435255
Hm, that sounds reasonable. I will think about that.
>>78435340
Yeah, that was a direction that I thought into to, using more weird materials like bark, bone etc.
>>78436527
So the armor would be propably very centered around certain areas?
>>78448732
There is both cases in the setting, it depends on the situation. If a warband finds a good place to defend on the ground, like a cliff for example, they will try to make the enemy come to the ground, by shooting at them with arrows, while intercepting their air charges down with their own air charges. In a typical ambush tough, on a travellig army for example, you would know they area they pass trough (flying of course), set up archers on cliffs and mountain tops etc. and charge into them with an air charge from below and on their level, while striking with throwing stuff from a bit like >>78449037 pointed out.
>>78449037
Yeah, entanglement weapons would defentivly have their uses.
>>78451835
Yes, atleast the various human tribes / ethnic groups, who have different kind of wings. The groundbound creatures are mostly monsters etc.

Also, does anybody know a good system for stuff like this? Mid-Air / Flying Combat, I mean? Have one of my crappy sketches in exchange.
>>
Matriarchal cultures have never existed, but matrilineal cultures are fairly common. Women tend to have more power and influence, but almost always a man (typically a close male relative of the highest ranking woman) is put in charge.

The Nayars from Kerala are a really interesting case of matrilineality, and Kerala has some of the highest IVC ancestry in South Asia. Probably not related, but a matrilineal culture where men rule but the line of succession is from uncle > nephew could be interesting for supposedly "matriarchal" bronze age cultures.
>>
We know almost nothing of detail about IVC beliefs or culture, but looking at the parts of Hinduism that don't come from Vedic Aryans is a good place to start for speculation.

Early Vedic religion was all about quid-pro-quo sacrifices to a set of deities focused on war and oathkeeping. Indra is good at killing his enemies and stealing their cattle; you want to be good at killing your enemies and stealing their cattle; so you sacrifice some drugs to Indra and ask him for some help on your own drugged-out cattle raids.

All the deep philosophical shit in the Vedas comes from the later sections, after the Aryas had a few centuries to mix with the descendants of the IVC. That's when we have hymns that speculate about Brahma and the nature of existence. Even later, we see cults dedicated to all-powerful creator deities that form outside of Brahminical orthodoxy, and gradually work their way into mainstream religion. It's possible that those cults were entirely new things that started after Aryas arrived, but it's also possible that they continued beliefs which had started with the IVC. There's at least one artifact from the IVC with something that looks like Shiva.

If you want to make a good Bronze Age setting for India, I'd center it around the decline of the IVC and the culture clash between IVC people and Aryans. The formerly idyllic and prosperous civilization is finding itself in a time of famine and desperation. Lacking in native military traditions, local rulers start to hire Aryan mercenaries to fight their wars and defend their towns. The IVC-ers look down on the Aryans are uncivilized bloodthirsty barbarians (true) and the Aryans look down on the IVC-ers as decadent pussies who can't even defend themselves (also true). There's a general sense that Aryan domination is just a matter of time, but for now the city-lords still hold on.
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>>78452961
I use the god creator to come up with gods of roughly equal power for my setting. One of my players said I was a genius for thinking up a system where gods can either increase their own physical or magical power and help or hinder their followers out of the same system. I was just like haha yeah man

But it's a good system, and it does sort of explain why the weather is always so weird on a planet if you get one of those guys who gets butthurt about desert placements and stuff
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>>78454671
Yeah, without countign the amount of mods it had than add some cool civs or the amount of spells, monsters etc to pilfer. I think I will make an OSR based game using my setting and the dominions ones and use some of Crawfords world without numbers to add the rules, than its 10 levels based and magic for mortals reach about five only makes me want to adapt it further, kek, I think spells about +5 for semi /divine beings is about right and marries extremely well with dominions.
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>>78454405
>Matriarchal cultures have never existed
We know absolutely jack shit about the bulk of the cultures that have ever existed. All we have from them is a stone tool here and a pottery shard there. It's not enough to make authoritative statements like you do.
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>>78445416
>>78448453
The reddit-tier I Fucking Love Science crowd has latched onto the idea that psychedelics drive the advancement of civilization, ever since some retarded 100% speculative article was published about how Australopithecus may have eaten psilocybin mushrooms.
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>>78455261
The burden of proof is the ones than claim the matriarchy tough, as all the other agraph populations than we have found from the amazones to papua nova guinea are male dominated, even the matrilineal ones.
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>>78455317
Fucking Joe Rogan I swear.
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>>78454773
I run my own setting, which borrows a few things from dominions so I can give you a few pointers

Yeah, 5 for magic seems pretty good, I think that makes boosters pretty valuable too. A god giving you a magic staff or helmet that makes you better than some of the best mages in the world gives a good sense of their power, especially if you make it so they have to be like, level 6 or 7 to make them. Of course, that's just learning the magic the normal way. If they become useful enough to a god, they can be pumped full of gems and raised up that way, or even granted some demigod power to remove the cap

I know most of them don't come close to that, but I'd increase the level you need to make them, but still make them cheap to actually produce. Also make it so there's enough that a level 5 mage can make them with a couple. I would make it up to about 3 per magic type minimum, which most magic has but there's a few gaps like earth and air

Personally I love the magic item system in the game, and I use something similar in my setting where there's magical sites that produce concentrated magic, that is needed to enchant items. I also have different countries study magic at different rates, so a trip to the city sorcerer or the university to find out if there's any new spells they cast is a good task that mages now have to do, which is useful when your martial classes have to go do things like purchase ammo, or get weapons repaired etc. You can even have a construction focused city that teaches them how to make magic items if they decide to keep the magic gems they find from sites out in the wild

Of course, there's also communions, which my party just found out more about. Now one of them is on a mission to buy a squad of communion slaves
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>>78456017
What system do you use lad? Seems like a fun game.
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>>78455428
"Every society ever was patriarchal" isn't the default state. The default state is "we don't know". So in this case you have a burden of proof as well.
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>>78456368
The default state IS patriarchal, what it isn't is patrilineal. Find me 10 matriarchies.
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>>78418462

A diety of some sort.

I remember reading snippets of tales from Roman writers about people we would call trans today, and no not just elagabalus. But they were seen as oddities, at best, and I think the thing I read was kinda sad, separated lovers sent to different islands and they died or something.

So I mean I guess the same as today, probably mostly unnoticed, though most people would be funnelled by their society to do things, like in a mystery cult somewhere or into prostitution or some such. What happens to a 'man' in Rome who isn't manly? In that culture? They're not snuffed out, but laughed at, or ignored, or funneled into something else. Or a 'woman' who isn't? Again mostly laughed at or ignored or turned into prostitutes.
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>>78456440
That's like concluding the default human state is morbidly obese by looking at the American population.
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>>78456368
No anthropologists have confirmed almost all hominids were patriarchal with the exception of a few isolated cases.
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>>78456599
>All we have from almost all hominids are bones
>Antropologists don't study hominids in the first place
Whoever told you that was making a joke at your expense.
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>>78357725
>our latitudes are mirrored across the equator.
north Carolina and Saudi Arabia are at the same latitude too. Germany and most of Europe is at upper Canada latitudes.
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>>78456766
Gulf Stream sure is nice.
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>>78429245
Certain copper ores are bi/polymetallic and are contaminated with such things as arsenic or zinc or even tin.

Copper changes color rapidly with only a few % of an alloying material, so the change would be at apparent
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>>78456521
Are you being obtuse intentionally or what anon, if you don't want to see don't, I will stop the flow of replies to yah.
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>>78457015
I understood perfectly what you wanted to say, it's just that what you wanted to say was taking a less than 11%, extremely unevenly distributed sample (behaviorally modern humans have exiasted for 50000 years, while the recorded history covers the last 5500 years, and only a small part of the world for most of it), and using it to make an absolute statement about the whole set. That's dumb.
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>>78456226
Fate, sadly, I have a group that refuses to learn another system so I'm adding in more and more homebrew stuff until it's essentially different
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>>78457558
Welp, ain't a system I specially like, but at least you can play your game in it, wich is nice.

Anons, what are some Bronze age people than aren't that well know but have cool stuff? I love the Hittites.
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>>78457683
Mitanni.
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>>78457823
That's another good one, Urrian are cool too.
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>>78457683
Alashiya, aka Cyprus.
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>>78451386
>>78451956
>>78451958
Bronze and copper can corrode in the presence of chlorides which can be found in certain soils and waterbodies
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>>78457683
I like the hittites, I mean come on you have a king, he writes shit like:
His frame is new.
His breast is new.
His penis is new.
His head is made of tin.
His teeth are those of a lion.
His eyes are those of an eagle.
He sees like an eagle.

And then you learn that this guy was also the one to write the first peace treaty in the world. I guess he could have lost his cock in the battle of Kadesh and had to get a new one
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>>78458072
That corrosion is different from tarnish.
But yeah, your Sea Peoples will have a lot of trouble maintaining their arms.
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>>78457973
Those are cool too.
>>78458740
Well the egyptians were fond of scalping benis, so perhaps.
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>>78461993
Did the Egyptians really do that? I am slightly skeptical, and the burden of proof resides on you, so...
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>>78464876
The Stele of Merenptah I think it was, or a Karnak pilar, Merenptah victory against the Sea people and the Libian, 13.000 benis cut.
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>>78465247
Yep, the great karnak inscription, "donkeys before them loaded with uncircumcised phalli of the foreign land of rebu" if you trust the translation of Collen Manassa.
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>>78456017
>Of course, there's also communions, which my party just found out more about. Now one of them is on a mission to buy a squad of communion slaves

I've recently used communion for a boss-fight in 5e. A mage had a bunch of slaves... some willing, some less so... linked to him to cast a big ritual the players came to interrupt. He shared self-buffs with the slaves, could draw on their spell slots and off-load concentration to them, and every slave gave him access to few more known spells. Kill the fire slave, he can't throw Fireballs at you anymore, and his everyone's Fire Shield goes down, smack the one responsible for summoning, and no more reinforcements to the fight. A nasty fight... his main limitation was (of course) action economy, as slaves were just standing there. Also, he could a kill a slave as a legendary action, healing himself for their current HP, but limiting his spellcasting ability. It was fun, and also propably the hardest battle in the campaign so far, everyone went down at least once (but none for good, surprisingly, which I blame more on luck than the player's tactics)
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>>78395861
Yup, historically Elephants tend to be nearly uncontrollable. They're usually used like blunt instruments, charged into the enemy ahead of the actual army to wreck as much shit as possibly. Problem is, this results in said elephants breaking and smashing apart the army meant to be controlling them. The Macedonians and Romans were both pretty adept at dealing with them.

That said, do we think it would be possible to train war elephants well enough that they could be used is proper heavy cavalry formations i.e. charged into flanks as a formation?
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>>78467826
Alright, what methods did the Macedonians and Romans use, and how could we build upon their techniques?
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>>78470021
Flaming pigs for example.
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>>78457683
Minoans are interesting
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>>78467826
Elephants are not uncontrollable because they're dumb, in fact it's precisely the opposite. They have enough awareness and self-preservation instinct to, well, try and preserve themselves when shit hits the fan. This is why elephants went 'berserk' when wounded, they just wanted to get out of this horrible situation the monkeys put them into and live. That's why the most successful users of war elephants draped them in heavy armor and put archers on them.
You can train elephants to do tasks far more complex than basic military manoeuvres. You can't convince elephants to carry military manoeuvres that would end badly out to completion.
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What's the cause of the Bronze Age Collapse in your setting /tg/?
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>>78443943
Whites and Asians, the two competent races.
>And don't be racist BTW.
How about you not being a little faggot instead.
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>>78474074
Boohoho, did someone hurt your widdle feelings? Do you need a safe space?
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>>78429245
It's one of the key points where you can inject an "ancient aliens"
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>>78298441
Additional fun Bronze Age image
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>>78298441
What diseases were dangerous in the Bronze Age world that we can easily deal with today?
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>>78479472
I'm gonna say - all of them.
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Would it totally break the dynamic for there to be a prominent bronze age society close to a society that had access to iron tools without production capabilities?

Basically, the setting will focus on a region analogous to the bronze age near east. To the far, far east, there would be an iron age society that won't really be shown in any of the games or stories. Between the two, there is a highly mercantile jungle people. These jungle people are unique, in that they have extremely advanced metabolisms that allow them to subsist on eating the nutrient jungle soil. They don't particularly enjoy eating the soil, but it allows them to survive with very little pressure. Thanks to this lack of pressure, they greatly value luxury goods and allocate most of their resources towards pursuing exotic novelties through the trade of bountiful jungle resources that they have access to. I like the idea of them importing iron tools from the civilization to their east.

Do you think this would break the entire bronze age dynamic? I would imagine that access to superior arms and armor would just encourage them to conquer their western neighbors, but perhaps I could argue that they would be discouraged to do so due to the western soil being far less beneficial to them?
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>>78480125
Early iron is no better than bronze, so no superior weapons and armor for some time. Couple of hundreds of years at least.
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>>78373897
You could even flip it by looking at the matriarchal societies. Take the sarmatians for instance.
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>>78480158
Interesting. If the iron equipment was distinctly superior, could a bronze age society exist adjacent to one with access to the superior iron equipment?

Perhaps a caveat could be that the far-east civilization with the advanced metallurgy has few enemies, and thus little reason to produce armor? I understand that copper weapons had a tendency to shatter (even moreso than normal) against superior metals. By doing this, the jungle trading society would still have superior weapons than the western society; this could lead to the jungle society having superior weapons, but not invalidate the bronze-age arms of their neighbors.

Basically, I want the two different societies to have strengths and weaknesses while maintaining a somewhat equal power balance. I think it'd be interesting for the jungle people to have (inconsistent) access to superior weapons, but perhaps they'd be weaker due to the soldier class mostly subsisting on soil supplemented by the occasional jungle creature.
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>>78480433
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>>78480444
>copper
Bronze, oops.
I was just watching a documentary on copper mining in Africa.
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>>78480463
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>>78480433
>>78480463
But those are fantasy, inspired in the amazon legends, real life Sarmatians were more like the Scythians, Alans, Saka and other steppe nomads of Iranian stock.
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>>78480666
My bad I didn't see that these threads were intended for realisic historical discussion. I've always just liked bronze age aesthetics.
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>>78480755
Np, is it indeed for any kind of bronze age, I tought youd said those were based in real cultures, wich they ain't, tough I love conquests and it only exagerates a bit.
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>>78480463
Gods I wish that were me
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Posting random bronze age inspo
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>>78480463
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>>78481857
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>>78481985
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>>78482011
*Thread gets invaded by the Scythians*
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>>78482028
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>>78482044
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>>78482068
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>>78481913
The pursuit of coom has unironically led me to very interesting obscure media. https://areena.yle.fi/1-4671236 (Rauta-aika/The Iron Age 1982)
>iron age blacksmith sick of women decides to make his own wife out of gold and silver
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>>78482153
>who is pygmalion
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>>78482440
What
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>>78298441
What are some good things to consider when designing Bronze Age funeral rites? How did they usually view death and the afterlife?
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>>78479563
Ha, ha, ha. But seriously, what are some diseases that were serious issues back then that could be easily treated with modern medical knowledge, if not actual modern pharmaceutical drugs?
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>>78485080
Grave goods were realy popular.
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>>78485080
Weren't funeral pyres the main thing until Christians decided they wanted to keep their body for the rapture ?
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>>78482153
>Rauta-aika
what?
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>>78488027
Seriously, take any disease treated by antibiotics, or anything there are vaccines from, and you have what you want. All of them would've been serious issues, because otherwise they wouldn't necessitate such measures.
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>>78488027
Try typhoid. It's easily transmittable in a crowded city, but all you have to do to prevent it is wash your hands and boil water before drinking.
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>>78488336
I am pretty sure that other cultures buried their dead well before Christianity rose to prominence. Why even say that?
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>>78488345
Rauta-aika means "iron age" in Finnish.
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>>78488336
>What are kurgans.
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>>78488336
Considerign how much we know about ancient cultures from their graves, no.
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>>78488336
>rapture
Silly americanism, that. Most Christian denominations teach that those saved will be given new, perfect, bodies to live their eternal lives in. The state of the temporal body at that point is entirely irrelevant, which is why the method of disposal is also irrelevant for ontolgical purposes.
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>>78485080
Depends entirely on cultural context. From singular body funerals in barrows over hills with a main body burial surrounded by several secondary urn graves to fields filled with urns.

Taking the Egtved girl as example: Buried within a barrow, contained in a coffin made from the stem of an oak, wrapped in a cow hide. Clothed in a light shirt and a short skirt made from strings, adorned with bronze jewelry. Other contents of the coffin are some sewing tools, flower petals, the cremated remains of a 5-6 year old child and a bucket of beer made of wheat, honey, bog-myrtle and cowberries.
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>>78491453
Oh wow those are remarkably preserved.
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>>78493811
I think it was because of the bogish conditions and the inherent chemicals of oakwood. Meat and bones had dissolved almost completely (aside from some head skin and brains), but hair and finger/toenails (all neatly kempt) were also preserved.
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>>78485080
Grave goods, aligning burials with various important stars
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>>78498590
>aligning burials with various important stars
Like Venus (I know it's not a star, but they didn't) you mean? What other stars were important back then? And "aligned" how?
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>>78490090
Nice. Still doesn't explain why the Finns made TV series that's 60% naked women.

Oh wait, maybe it does.
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>>78501795
If it's big or bright or arranged with other big and bright stars, It's important to someone
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>>78298441
What are some interesting tidbits about Bronze Age sea travel and navigation?
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>>78484068
Subhuman retard.
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>>78503050
Like the constellations that we have been using since the Ancient Greeks you mean? How long ago did those get started, anyway?
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>>78501878
Nudity isn't that big of deal here. I hadn't even realized how much nudity there was in Rauta-aika before you mentioned it.
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>>78508407
This is normal by finn standards? Recommend me some other finn shows please.
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>>78488336
The rapture was made up by a Sc*tsman in the 1800s.
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>>78373897
Vishpala, from the vedas.
Female guards of Chandragupta Maurya though it is classical era.
Also Sinauli had woman warrior tombs found.
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>>78504420
Tin was in such demand that merchants travelled by boat as far as cornwall to get it. And it was also worth it.
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>>78509185
Why exactly was it worth it? What’s so great about tin?
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>>78510405
You can use it to make bronze, duh.
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>>78510405
Bronze anon, 1/10 of tin plus 9/10 of copper is enough to make bronze.
>>
I need help historyfags. I'm reading Penguin's History of the World to educate myself and one line stood out to me.

>The beautiful and charming women who appear in many of the paintings and sculptures may reflect also the outcome of a certain political importance for their sex which was lacking elsewhere. The throne theoretically (and often in practice) descended through the female line. An heiress brought to her husband the right of succession; hence there was much anxiety about the marriage of princesses. Many royal marriages were of brother and sister, without apparently unsatisfactory genetic effects; some Pharaohs married their daughters, but perhaps to prevent anyone else marrying them rather than to ensure the continuity of the divine blood (which could be achieved through concubines). Such a standing must have made royal ladies influential personages in their own right. Some exercised important power and one even occupied the throne, being willing to appear ritually bearded and in a man’s clothes, and taking the title of Pharaoh. True, it was an innovation which seems not to have been wholly approved.
>The throne theoretically (and often in practice) descended through the female line.

What the fuck does this even mean? Everyone else on the internet says that the eldest son inherits the throne?
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>>78511266
Egypt has a long as fuck history anon. Tought its the first time I hear the matrilineal stuff, for what I remember it was ever patrilineal.
Also because its in a book doesn't mean is truth, and we don't know for sure the majority of stuff either, so its hard, could be a theory based in an ambiguos translation or gods know what.
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>>78511266
>Penguin's History of the World
Never heard of it. Does it list its sources?
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>>78514165
Nah, no footnotes either. Just the author J. M. Roberts taking you on a guided tour from prehistory to modern days. Apparently, it was first published in 1976 and I'm reading the 6th edition. I wanted a world history book in one volume and this was the first result with rave reviews.

It's super focused on a "big-picture" view too. J. M. Roberts is more interested in large-scale, sweeping changes and innovations with broad impact than in recounting specific events and notable figures. So every once in a while, a line like that pops out and I barely have time to say "what do you mean by that" before he moves on to the next topic.
>>
What would be a good way to flavor magic for the setting? I would like to make it more like Aquelarre or Mythras than DnD.
>>
>>78516138
Well having different flavors normally helps. The bad guy will be calling on spirits best left forgotten and plagues would be huge. Much lest casting fireballs and more like summoning and bending gods cursed creatures to your will. In the hour of the dragon the first story with Conan the Necromancer summoned a spirit from the void between the stars to paralyze Conan so he would have to pick another person to lead his army. Said person was than mentally tricked into leading the cavalry into a trap which ended up with an cliff side smashing down and killing the whole troop.
Make magic not flashing but still useful, but most who use magic are outcasts or evil as the creatures and spirits that will teach magic normally want human sacrifices.
>>
>>78517223
I really like the idea of regional magic specialties but I'm aware than I don't know enough about the zone and the cultures to really pick a style for each.
>>
https://haplogroup.org/sources/radiocarbon-dating-san-juan-ante-portam-latinam/
So we have war graves even in the neolithic, what are the most ancient finds about warfare?
>>
>>78449343
>Glorantha
Glorantha is THE bronze age setting. I'm amazed how little discussion there is about it.
>>
>>78298441
These ancient baby bottles made of pottery got me thinking, what were common issues plaguing mothers and infants alike in the Bronze Age, and how were they eventually solved?
>>
>>78522371
>Glorantha is THE bronze age setting.
What makes it so special exactly?
>>
>>78523876
Childbirth is deadly, and if you survive, your kid has good chances not to live to their fifth year. Some cultures didn't even give newborns names until they survived for a year.
If you don't have enough milk, there's no baby formula to help you. You have to take your kid with you everywhere, including to work.
Other than that, the same issues as now, I presume
>>
>>78526228
Runequest was one the earliest RPGs, published before AD&D, so it's important. The magic system and the cults are a good fit for Bronze Age.
The setting is strongly influenced by Westerns, Disney and other Americana. The creator deity comes from native Americans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_Grandmother
>>
>>78527210
What made the fifth year of life such a milestone? Also, how could modern knowledge deal with those issues?
>>
>>78529544
>What made the fifth year of life such a milestone?
No idea, I just saw a statistic that mentioned the fifth year

>How could modern knowledge deal with those issues?
Medicine.
>>
>>78510405
Bronze is stronger and holds a better edge than copper
>>
>>78480501
>>78480444
Bronze is less brittle than iron or steel. I believe that the chinese used to make weapons out cast iron for their million strong slave armies. So you could have the bronze weapons be better but the cast iron ones cheaper and in greater
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>>78337011
because that isnt true?
mesoamerican culture had big cities and suchlike, the same as the world over.
you dumb fucking cunt.
>>
I have a few questions about the bronze age:

Could Sumerians miniatures with their somewhat specific skirt/helmet/cloak getup possibly represent later bronze age soldiers as well?

Were there single-man chariots in use other than the Sumerian straddle carts?

Was dendra armor actually effective?
>>
>>78532588
>1. Sure.
>2. The pilot and warrior variant were the most common, but there isn't anything than says you can use only one, tough its more complicated to move and figth at the same time of course.
>3. Of course it was efective, when used in his apropiate context, aca looking awesome and probably taxi cab with chariot.
>>
>>78532588
Yes yes and yes.
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>>78373232
>"Wow anons, I didn't know 2^587 was 6"
>It clearly isn't retard, what are you talking about?
>"Uh, well, anon, if you're so smart, why don't you tell us what it ackchually is?"
>I don't know, I don't have a calculator, but it's obviously more than 6
>"Well, I don't know why you're criticizing my answer anon when you can't produce your own".
>>
>>78529544
By 5 most children stop doing stupid shit like literally eating dirt. They can also maneuver and watch out for themselves. For parents that need to spend time in the field this age is when cilhdren become less of a liability. We have some pretty good historigraphy done by Russian social scientists in the 1880s on Russian peasants. Life in that respect hadn't changed at all since people settled the area. Major issues they found was that mothers needed to take their infants into the fields, and would pretty much just have to leave them there and hope for the best while they worked. If something happened to the infant while they were distracted that was it. I really wish I still had my notes from my course so I could give a reference for it but if you can find it on a google search it should help you understand some of the struggles facing low-tech agrarian farmwives.
>>
>>78533283
Can you post some in the vola /r/library?
>>
>>78534322
I would if I still had access to them but I lost a lot of my old work on the subject when my hard drive spontaneously combusted in 2019.
>>
>>78484068
Guess how I know you're colored?
>>
>>78535362
>hard drive spontaneously combusted in 2019.
Ouch, what happened? Also, you didn’t keep backups?
>>
Anyone has info about the tartesians or the Argarics?
>>
>>78484068
Read a book
>>
>>78373232
Honestly, "Born in Blood and Fire" if you want general Latin American History. If you want conversations on development and culture, its a bit more complicated due to current trends in academia being unfavorable towards sweeping overviews and generalizations.
>>
>>78541044
Thanks. Why are current trends like that BTW?
>>
>>78544244
Because sweeping generalizations are wrong 99% of the time.
>>
>>78530841
They never left the stone age and didn't develop the wheel, you fucking idiot. Their technology and society stagnated and they were left behind before the Bronze dark age.
>>
>>78544511
This is your brain after American education.
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>>78545010
How fucking stupid are you? Do you not know what makes a stone age society? Hint: stone tools.
>>
>>78337011
A common reason I have seen given for why certain societies advanced while others didn't was the amount of resources and space available to the people.
Essentially the premise was that the people of the americas (and africa) had enough space and access to resources for survival that there was less general pressure for advancement than there was in say Mesopotamia or europe. The idea being that more intense competition causes more development. That would be an explanation as to why most native americans were still in the stone age technologically speaking, they never encountered a need to push them past that as a source of weapons and tools. The americas are large and they could get what they needed with what they had. Same reason that there are tribes in Africa and the Amazon that still live in primitive hunter-gatherer societies, they never encountered a strong need to change what has been working.
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>>78545329
>they never encountered a need
Makes sense, necessity is the mother of invention and all that. Do you have any sources on this please?
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>>78545212
This is your brain on Dunning-Kruger effect.
Hint: correlation of tool material with general advancement is true only for Europe and Middle East, because that's what it was developed for. While it's true that mesoamerican societies were less technologically advanced than the Old World ones, the gap was much closer than you make it out to be.
Interesting tidbit: they also knew how to make bronze. Why they didn't use it for tools much is unknown, but not because they didn't know it.
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>>78547890
>Do you have any sources on this please?
Source : just trust me.
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>>78548006
>Source : just trust me.
Sorry, but I plan on talking about this with some people who will ‘never’ be satisfied with just that as an answer.
>>
>>78545329
This is kind of retarded theory. Civilisations started in the places with the most fertile (read most available resources) dirt.
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>>78545329
This is plain wrong. By this logic the most advanced people around would be Inuits and they would develop the best farming techniques.
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>>78545329
Did you stop to think a few sec before saying that anon? Why aren't the Tuaregs, the Inuits or the san the most advanced cultures then?
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>>78551652
>Inuits
They don’t exactly have a lot of ore underneath the Arctic ice, I would think. Or if they do, it’s beneath the ocean and out of their reach.
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>>78554732
Exactly, don't having resources is a hindrance, glad you got it fast.
>>
Eurasia has latitude for parallel civs. The Silk Road was a big thing.
>>
>>78555627
Yes it was anon, like the salt routes in the sahara or the caravans in arabia.
>>
New thread?



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