>medieval Europe setting>peasants can read and write>women have equal rights>minorities have equal rights>people give a shit about concepts like human rights>nobles are comically evil idiots
>>77694017Peasants could read and write in medieval Europe, yes. Not latin, which is the language that really matters, but they could read and write their native languageEuropean languages didn't have a classical form until the renaissance, so you just had to learn the alphabet and you're good to go.
>>77694067>Peasants could read and write in medieval EuropeLUL, no.
Oh boy, this thread again! I love it when you faggots post the same shit over and over!
>>77694079yes, acktually. There's documented evidence of peasants casually writing messages to each other about casual shit.
>>77694087It's either that or one more furfag thread
>>77694079Stellar argument there. Truly the height of academic debate.
>>77694017>minorities have equal rights>minoritiesyou retarded?
>>77694112He is a realismfag so yes he is retarded.
>>77694017Good thing it's a fantastical setting that doesn't mirror real life or random factoids 1:1 then, isn't it?
>medieval Europe setting
>>77694017>fantasy medieval Europe settingThere, I fixed it.
>>77694017>medieval setting>not dying immediately of the plague/dysentery/SIDS
>>77694017>Thinking peasants were illiterate by modern standards>Thinking women were actually treated as badly as modern media seems to think before the early modern period (they weren't equal, but between Rome and post-Reformation Europe the Middle Ages were practically a high point)>Thinking the concept of racial minorities would've even existed>Thinking the church didn't actively regulate war to make it less destructive within Europe (at least against other Christians, others were fair game)and finally>Thinking most "medieval" fantasy settings are actually medival instead of a nebulous "Europe in the past but before guns"You don't know anything about history, you just want to use it as an excuse for your equally bullsuit setting concepts
>>77694017This thread will reach 324 posts while better ones will be deleted.Thanks a lot, mods.
>>77694244there are no better onesevery other thread is furshit
>>77694079Well, in the case of the Novgorod city state there was evidence of education with example of notes being written in birch bark. Whether or not you could read or write in any place in any time was dependent on whether you needed or not.
>>77694264>3, arguably 4 furshit threads atmCare to exaggerate a little less?
>>77694017Point out where I said my setting is Europe.
>>77694299The rake hand guys will never not be great. Why did we ever stop drawing stick figures like that
>>77694089People forget that English being standardized is a rather recent thing. Old works and documents are rife with old spellings and errors, even going back as far as the Fu Manchu books which was about 120 years ago you'll see that clue used to be spelled clew, which funnily makes more sense as a clew is a ball of yarn.
>>77694216>>Thinking the church didn't actively regulate war to make it less destructive within Europe (at least against other Christians, others were fair game)This is actually a major game mechanic in crusader kings, you cannot wage an unjust war against those you share a religion with, and too much warring as a pagan causes the pope to go deus vult on your ass.
>>77694365Thanks, informercial products
>>77694373Well, that's not quite accurate. Warfare itself was constant, albeit largely minor spats over some small piece of land or something else inconsequential usually.But when it came to warfare between Christians, things like leaving non-combatants alone and treating prisoners with a modicum of dignity were pretty commonly enforced. Mostly because, you know, if the Pope says you'll go to hell for raping random peasant villagers in war and you believe that, you will most likely not do said rapes.
>>77694299Apparently someone forgot their shirt.
>>77694087Look fucker, if you want original shitposts you're going to have to contribute.
>>77694317AT LEAST EIGHT>monster boy general (fucking hell)>dog-men>dragon (male)>weredogs>shota centaurs>birdpeople>kobolds (yes, you know what these threads are like)>wolf-/dog folkAnd I'm not counting the paizo thread and dnd 5e thread which are always rallying points for /trash/Care to minimize a little less?Need I remind you that even one is too many, let alone EIGHT?
>>77694501>kobolds (yes, you know what these threads are like)I won't lie we had a fair share of cretins in that thread but it wasn't a total /trash/ thread as you insuate.
>>77694501The centaur thread is just a regular centaur thread, thank you very much
>>77694546In spite of the OP's best efforts
>>77694584Or that genetics detour, whatever that was about
>>77694067Only very few could like village chiefs the fuck are you smoking?
>>77694089Have you tried not listening to fake news?
>>77694112What were Jews exactly?
>>77694017>medieval Europe>minoritiesChoose one.
>>77694067>Peasants could read and write in medieval EuropeTo read what, you retard?
>>77694017>>medieval Europe settingNo one actually plays in those.
>>77694865messages, signs, shit that was written so they could read it, retard. "Oi m8 giv me bak my cow or ill kil u"shit like that
>>77694624Expelled, a lot of the time.
>>77694865Petitions, signs, declarations. Lots of shit.Although, being able to read doesn't necessarily mean you can replicate the writing for yourself. Like how one of the common measures people use is court documents, where witness' statements have to be signed, and you tend to see peasants just use either an 'X' or their initial rather than a full signature
>>77695248After being a minority for centuries.
>>77695205Yeah it's always modern day just without guns and internet.
>>77694469Shit man he has a lot to do. Can you blame him?
>>77695381Could've been worse, could've forgotten his pants
>>77694017>peasants can read and writeThere were a lot of them who could, yes. You do know that poor-as-shit serfs aren't the only peasants, right?>Human RightsUh...yes, they did exist. Even serfs had their rights. You couldn't just go around killing them for absolutely no reason, you needed an excuse.
>>77694216>Thinking the concept of racial minorities would've even existedForeign Whites, yes. But unless you were from like, southern spain, sicily or greece/anatolia, you probably wouldn't have ever met an black person in your entire life.
>>77694216People on 4chan know literally nothing about medieval times, don't bother. This site is full of actual mouthbreathers.
>>77694017>realismfag knows nothing about realismbig surprise
>>77695748Pretty much, yeah.Its possible they would've had a negative association with dark skin from northern Africa being heavily Muslim, but an Ethopian Christian would've ultimately been as welcome as any other Christian, and infinitely more welcome than a white pagan (especially considering anyone traveling so far would've almost inevitability been nobility).That said, other forms of minorities (sexual, disability, etc.) would've definitely been treated less than ideally, although I'd still rather play in a setting that goes "no one cares" than falsely transfers over modern prejudices. I prefer "clearly trying to be fun rather than realistic" over "muh realism (edgy and equally inaccurate, but will get mad if you say that)"
>>77695920>I say without specifying a time or place, and making broad sweeping generalizations showing that my thoughts on the matter are entirely based on my gut feeling.
>>77696045I genuinely thought the anon I was replying to specified Medieval England somewhere in there, but I guess I imagined that lol. Of course, even including that doesn't mean much when the Medieval period is around 1000 years, but with that in mind ANY generalization will be uselessly broad for actual Historical study.
>>77694317Every number above zero is way too much
>Peasants could read!>No they couldn't!You faggots are acting like "medieval" wasn't a span of a thousand years.
>>77696222This entire thread is full of retards trying to flex.
>>77695354after trying to subvert a culture for centuries Do you think every minority in a country are perfect angles that can do no wrong?
>>77694624"What are Jews?" Is a tricky question. Are we talking Religious Jews, Ethnic Jews, or Cultural Jews?
>>77694133>>77694178>It's a fantasy setting so anything is allowed!>So long as it conforms exactly to the standards of modern American entertainment, with compulsory gays, blacks, feminism, and Marxist stereotypes of nobility, of course. Can't actually have any variation in fiction.
>>77694067This anon is actually correct. In the Escarton Communes, a medieval mini state of 5 remote valleys in the Savoyan alps, 9 out of 10 inhabitants were literate at the start of the 18th century. This whole meme that rural peasants were a dumb illiterate apes was started by enlightenment "thinkers" to justify their tendencies towards the centralisation of power.
>>77700473>at the start of the 18th century...what? is this a joke i'm not getting
Your post needs some grimlocks OP, and I am obliged to deliver.
>>77695748>you probably wouldn't have ever met an black person in your entire life.We need to go back
I will leave this video from shad:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kISM2od3BJ0>>77694299I really thought for a second this was about the Witcher setting
>>77694067>Peasants could read and write in medieval Europe, yes. Not latin, which is the language that really matters, but they could read and write their native languageNigger what. Any Christian that learns to read is learning in Latin.
>>77696973Holy fuck you are retarded. Jews in medieval Europe were the guys in charge of loans because except for few Italian noble families no Christian was allowed to loan money. So they turned to non Christians and jews were perfect for that. Then after few centuries it turns out that the guys in charge of loans are now fucking rich, what a surprise. So kings just decided to frame them for whatever so they can steal their money. This happened fucking everywhere. This is where all the bullshit jew myths came from like drinking blood of children and other bullshit. And then when new world appears all the rich jews tired of getting fucked in the ass for generations fuck off there and finance the birth of a new nation.
>>77700444>standards of modern American entertainment>Marxistlul
>>77700549>>77700544For all intents and purposes the Escartons were pretty medieval, being valleys in the ass middle of nowhere with a largely agrarian population.
>>77696973Jews in Christian communities tended to be extremely careful to refuse converts in fact, as they knew they'd be exterminated or force-baptised if the Church thought they were trying to lead good Christians astray.
>>77700818All intents and purposes except being within 200 years of the period under discussion.
>>77694017>medieval Europe settingWell that's your first mistake.>nobles are comically evil idiots"Comically" evil? Probably bad if they're just a cartoon villains. but it would be a mistake to assume that evil people can't care about "Their" population.
>>77700723>all the rich jews tired of getting fucked in the ass for generationsif they were really being fucked in the ass so hard how were they still rich
England in 1500 is estimated to have had a 10% literacy rate, rising to 20% in the towns (Mortimer, 2009).This is at the ass end of the medieval period (and arguably getting much closer to the renaissance/early modern period.)For the vast majority of the middle-ages the average peasant be they serf (non-existent in England), villain or yeoman would have had limited literacy, so much so that the Benefit of Clergy was a legitimate way to avoid being hanged until 1827 (though massively restricted under Henry VIII and Elizabeth I.)Not only are the vast majority of peasantry going to be illiterate in the medieval world, depending on time period a number of lords and even kings would be illiterate (till about the time of the Great Schism).
>>77694353I know I'm late in saying this but I quite shore it should be appoached in a literacy rate percentage per area combined with a reading level, scribes are the only people who need to kmow how to read in a town/holding
>>77700723>And then when new world appears all the rich jews tired of getting fucked in the ass for generations fuck off there and finance the birth of a new nation.Not too sure that's how it went down tbqh.
>>77701098My favourite type of noble villain are the ones who are so out of touch with the common man that they don't realise their plight. So not necessarily evil, just lacking in perspective.
>>77694216I hope you realize that the middle ages is a blanket term for a period of history almost 1000 years long
>>77696973>are perfect anglesI find them to be more obtuse.
>>77694017>Renaissance fantasy setting>OP calls it medieval Europe
>>77694017>>peasants can read and writeYes>>women have equal rightsFair point, but it was different rights. The idea of women and men being interchangeable would be as retarded to them as you or I saying apples and oranges are interchangeable>>minorities have equal rights>>people give a shit about concepts like human rightsIt used to be more about group rights. Like X guild or X group had a right to practice X thing or ignore a law about having to do something that others had to do>>77695748My grandma in Canada didn't see a black person until she was 10. I remember her telling me about how she thought he was in some sort of freak accident and couldn't believe her eyes
>>77694079>>77700715>Complain about "stupid tropes">Believe instead in Hollywood pop-scienceEvery. Single. Time
>>77700723>So kings just decided to frame them for whatever so they can steal their money. This happened fucking everywhere. This is where all the bullshit jew myths came from like drinking blood of children and other bullshit.Not quite. It was actually quite common for these moneylenders to actually become richer than the king. That money is coming from somewhere, and almost always it is from parasiting on society to the point it is literally destabilizing the country.Also jews were caught red handed numerous times engaging in heinous acts like murdering children and drinking their blood. These trials were very sophisticated, with bodies and witnesses being produced, as well as even confessions of perpetrators. Even as recently as the modern era there have been jews who have confessed that some sects of jews have secret rituals that involve murder. Usually these rituals are only known by rabbis from long lineages of rabbis and is kept secret even from other jews.
>>77700723>So kings just decided to frame them for whatever so they can steal their moneyMore often than not, the kings were defending Jews against the peasants who were fed up. Many kings themselves, like Vlad the Impaler's usurper cousin, were Jewish backed proxies
>>77700723Jews were not the only ones who could lend money, they were just the only ones who didn't consider /usury/ to be a sinful crime against your neighbors. Christian banking existed everywhere throughout Europe and famously the Knights Templar operated as a Christian banking service before usurous Jews demanded they be massacred for being the competition.
>>77701696OP is most likely American. They have genuine issues with proper periodisation and for them thare are only two solid ways ot doing things: "before US independence" and "after US independence". Anything that's "before" is just this grey area where everything is the same and it makes no difference.
>>77694017>>peasants can read and writeThis was more likely than you think.>minorities have equal rightsSome dude in the Yorvik museum supposedly came from Africa but amassed enough wealth to have a decent burial in a viking town
>>77701776This.The jews were often given walled districts to live in (called "ghettoes" but actually quite rich and luxurious) to keep them safe from angry peasant mobs demanding they be exiled.
>>77700444Not wanting to make the players put up with realismfag retardation does not mean the setting is fully on the other side of the extreme.
>>77695468Is this the earliest example of an anxiety dream?
>>77700715So if every christian learned latin.... who was using English, French, Spanish, German, and the rest? What do you think they used it fore? Who then read it? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most peasants were probably illiterate. It takes schooling and even 1890 civilization had high illiteracy because they just didn't teach their children. But in what cities they had and what "middle class" existed, the written language was definitely a thing
>>77694017You're making the classic retard mistake of assuming that the vast majority of RPGs have European settings and aren't just wacky places to have fun in and raid dungeons in.
>>77701315>Invited to town by local lord>Tells me he'll give me 100 ducats to loan out and permission to collect interest, to foster local economy.>Clever, quickly make money, pay him back>Lord dies, son takes over>The son starts commenting on how much money I have>Write letter to different city, offering to come there to invest and support the local lord>Accepted. Grab all my shit and get the hell out of dodge>Ten months later, pogrom.And that is how Jews can be oppressed AND rich. It's just being clever and sensing when people are starting to gun for you.
>>77700289Up until recently all jews are religious jews. Fuckin' with that shit would get you hanged, even by the jews. I'm not sure what the difference between "ethnically jewish" and "culturally jewish" would be. Care to explain?Most people at the time would say "born of a jew". IE, racially jewish. Of jewish descent. Which raises a good question. Were there peasants who were good at numbers and accounting that wanted to be bankers that pretended to be Jewish or slide into a jewish family?
>>77700444>So long as it conforms exactly to the standards of modern AmericanMore like: "Close enough that it doesn't challenge normies into thinking about it".
>>77701777Templars were just using a loophole and in the end got fucked same way many jews were.
>>77701988There's a pretty easy litmus test for that: Are the characters white? Where does white skin originate from? Same way that if the characters are portrayed as Indian.... it'd be pretty reasonable to assume the thing is set in India.
>>77702058You didn't "slide into a jewish family". For the most part jews married jews. Christians didn't want to marry them and they didn't want to marry christians.
>>77702081>>77701777Arabian kings likewise empoyed Christians to be their bankers and loan out money. That way they weren't saddled with the sin of usury. History is full of mental gymnastics like that.
>>77700723Jews were a predatory moneylender class used by the ruling class to extract wealth and ended up shielding them from the anger of the preyed upon until it became more beneficial to use them as a scapegoat and piggy bank.
>>77694017congrats OP on the shitty bait thread
>>77701954>So if every christian learned latin.... who was using English, French, Spanish, German, and the rest?Native speakers. Educated people might have written notes to themselves in their own languages, or even done a Petrarch and said no! Enough Latin! Italian is good enough for real poetry! But I think it's not an exaggeration to say that in general, across the vast span of time that is the European Middle Ages, people who were lucky enough to get a formal education were primarily taught from Latin texts, probably by a priest.
>>77694101I'll take 100 furry threads before another 1 of these cancerous realism threads.
>>77694017the idea of "the dark ages" was put forward by the 1800s version of SJW's who wanted to believe how hecking superior they were for beliving in science of the renaissance compared to the generations before, who obviously must have been stupid as fuck because real life is a progression ever upward over time like age of empires or some shit.
>>77702058Lots of jews converted to christianity at various times and places when being jewish was considered sus. For instance, in 1500s Spain.
>>77702103This isn't true in Russia at least where Jews would marry Christians if for no other reason than if they were Christians they were less likely to get lynched.>>77702058Khazar Jews are very different from Semitic Jews although they have since overcome this issue thanks to centuries of universal animosity. They've have decided that if the world is going to lynch them for being Jews they may as well all stick together.
>>77702633Given how many jews in Spain collaborated with Muslim invaders prior to the Reconquista, there was centuries of suspicion and bad blood there.
>>77702558Well the dark ages were pretty fucking dark for Rome in particular. That whole "losing power" thing is generally a kick in the pants. As is the slave revolts, having your town sacked. Having a series of idiots at the helm. Having your leadership leave. Bad times. >real life is a progression ever upward over time It generally kinda is. There's forward progress that comes with experience that's hard to simply "go away". History teaches us shit. And in that regard, EVERY period of time ~200 years ago is essentially "the dark ages" of their time.
>>77702633The reason Reconquista took so long get all of Spain is because Christians spend huge amount of time just trading with Muslims.
>>77702928Mean for >>77702738
>>77694017Sounds like a fun setting!
>>77702052This is a fanfic
>>77702928Lots of places that are occupied have integrated economies
>>77700818For all intents and purposes, no, that’s bullshit.
>>77701098>>77701552Neglecting Nolbese Oblige was largely considered a sinful and stupidly counter-productive act. Still, it didn't stop plenty of kings from accepting bribes from Jews and allowing hard alcohol monopolies or usury against the wishes of the locals. Very especially in Eastern Europe
>>77700723>mythsFunny you think they're myths.
>>77694624Golems. Everyone knows jews hadn`t invented organic bodies before 1818.
>>77701765>That money is coming from somewhere, and almost always it is from parasiting on society to the point it is literally destabilizing the country.No, not really. Banks just tend to be really profitable.>Also jews were caught red handed numerous times engaging in heinous acts like murdering children and drinking their blood. If you seriously believe this wasn't just 100% made up as a excuse to kick Jews out of a country then you are delusional.
>>77703879>If you seriously believe this wasn't just 100% made upIt's happened
>>77703901No, it did not. It was a obvious lie made up by Nobles so they confiscate their wealth. If you seriously believe that you are just as stupid as a medieval peasant. Arguably even more stupid since for you ignorance is a choice.
>>77700776You do know the commies never left Hollywood right?
>>77702058Cultural Jews are similar to cultural christians. You were raised in the Jewish faith but you dont believe in it, yet you still practice its traditions. Like an atheist who was raised Jewish & still goes home for Hannukah. Similar to an atheist who celebrates Christmas.
>>77700289Being a Jew basically just means being superior. They are the rightful ruling caste of humanity, and everybody else is their cattle. The Jewish faith exists as a method to pluck out the few decent non Jews and put them into the ruling class.
>>77703901This sounds too much like /pol/ paranoia to be believed without sources
>>77704016To add to this, the Jewish community largely moves around how they are seen & if you marry into a Jewish family they want you to convert. If you join their group you have to be Jewish in some sense or you aren't worthy. So a woman, marrying a Ethnically/Religious Jew would be expected to convert Religiously, but since people actually having a religious change of heart is rare, it's more about just following jewish traditions, i.e. "culturally jewish".
>>77704053Unless you're christian/Islamic & understand that Jews lost their favor with god. It's one of the reason for Jesus. God got tired of the Jews not listening & being bad at their jobs
>>77704159It has nothing to do with god or the like. Jews are simply genetically predisposed to rule over the rest of humanity.
>>77703935Oh my dude.>>77694017OP, why don't you describe how these things should be in a setting that you'd find acceptable? What do you think the literacy rate/delineation should be, what women's rights should look like and how it differs from ours in real terms, whatever the fuck you mean about minorities and human rights, etc.What, they didn't get to vote for a figurehead that does literally nothing the population wants?
>>77703879There are sources from across history from antiquity to the modern era, across social strata, and across countries.https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22726240-blood-passover"Ebul nobles across time and space made it up" is ridiculously intellectually lazy.
>>77704789>Nobles kept using the same lie over and over again because it worked in the past.You really are dumber than a medieval peasant, aren't you?
>>77704841Maybe jews just kept doing the same religious ritual. Ever consider that, retard?Tell me who killed Simon of Trent?
>>77694469Maybe he had layers on and forgot one of them, or maybe he had to run out the door suddenly in the morning to handle some bullshit emergency like a chicken getting attacked or whatever. Or maybe he was just drunk.>>77704841This is just a sad cope
>>77704898Ever consider that it was never a religious ritual and just something people made up? Which is something people in the middle ages did all the time: Just make shit up.>Tell me who killed Simon of Trent?Let's see: The local Prince-Bishop was already noted as really hating Jews. Only needing a excuse to throw them all out and confiscate their wealth. Who do you think?>>77704981It's not. Stop believing medieval propaganda.
>>77694017>its a realismfag thread
>>77694101The furfag threads are unironically more creative than you.
>>77701749Pretty much sums it up.
>>77703879>No, not reallyModern banks are still doing the same thing today brainlet
>>77705121Anon, modern banks can only do the things they do BECAUSE of the modern time. A medieval bank lacks the tools.
>>77701552I'm currently playing a high ranking noble who is extremely out of touch with the common man. But he definitely falls on the "Good" side of things- if D&D alignments came into this. He'll aid anyone visually in need but doesn't exactly comprehend large scale problems that don't fit inside a single building. Being oblivious isn't exactly good or evil.
>>77694079I just finished reading a history book about a medieval peasant, a miller, who was part of a regional book club, him and his friends swapped books back and forth between them because they were rare and expensive. He ended up reading a translation of the quran and some classical philosophy that led to him being prosecuted by the inquisition. he was a dirt-poor peasant who could read and write well enough to get into trouble.
>>77703935And Epstein did nothing wrong. Obviously all made up by anti-semites.
>>77694216this>>77695748dumb wrong and racist
>>77705032Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it a lie. Hell anyone that understands what oral circumcision is would consider “jewish” blood rituals very likely.
>>77694501ew, homophobe, go away
>>77705204Anon, Epstein clients consisted of just as many white people as it did jews. The entire Anglo upper class is depraved beyond help. Got nothing to do with Jews.
>>77705032So you're the kind of retard who thinks his imagination is a source, but an entire trial isn't.Zoroastrian Persians have attested to this.Muslim Arabs have attested to thisPeasants have attested to thisHoly men have attested to thisWarrior nobles have attested to thisScholars have attested to thisPeople have attested to this before year 0People have attested to this in the early modern eraYes surely there is a grand conspiracy.Hey I have a secret to tell you, death row? All innocent. Go find a death row escaped convict I'm sure he'll tell you so himself.
>>77705222>Doing a circumcision the same thing as human sacrifices.Right. You really aren't making a good case for yourself or people like you.
>>77705255I've yet to hear you make a single case at all. Your arguments amount to "nuh uh".
>>77705255>cutting a baby’s penis then sucking it is not comparable to draining a random child of all their bloodNot particularly bright are you?
>>77705240>nothing to do with itAdmit your ethnicity already
>>77705249People in the past used to believe in all kinds of ludicrous shit. Something like that, which is obviously false, is no different. Especially when there is more evidence supporting the existence of fairies than there is Blood libel. >>77705256No. It's obviously the case if you think about it for more than second.>>77705280I don't need to make a case, you have to make a case that your ludicrous ideas hold any truth. Something you have utterly failed to do.
>>77705360Ok, ill bite. What "tools" were they lacking
>>77705338I'm Dutch.>>77705324>Cutting a Penis is the exact same thing as human sacrifice.Performing a baptism is also exactly like ritually drowning a child.
>>77705032There’s no point arguing with anti-semites literally spouting blood libel, just point out they’re nazis and tell them to go back>>77705222fuck off nazi scum >>>/pol/
>>77705324One kills the baby, one doesn't affect a damn thing.T. Late in life circumcision
>>77705381That is probably for the best. Most Nazi's are literally mentally insane and should be locked up. I just find it fascinating that they are literally falling for Medieval propaganda.
>>77705374The internet for starters. Or any kind of communication network faster than sending your uncle across half of Europe, really.
>>77705432>banks couldn't charge interest or price gouge before the internetI gave you a legitimate chance and you gave me a low iq non-answer.
>>77694365finally, the perfect weapon to use against the eternal canadian
>>77705474Banks are not at threat to society because they charge interest or gouge prices, dumbass. They are a threat because they invest in bubbles that might end up bursting.
>>77704086>>77705360>Something like that, which is obviously false, is no different. Especially when there is more evidence supporting the existence of fairies than there is Blood libel.The jews were neighbors to the Cananites, another semitic culture who are widely accepted to have practiced ritual child sacrifice.Here's your sources BTW, debunk this.
>>77705512You've already conceded the point in my original question, you lying psued. The question is what tools do modern banks have that older ones didn't, which you've failed to answer three times now so you're trying to reframe the argument
>>77705531Literally not a single one of these accounts is even remotely reliable just reading them as is. Nor do any of them come with sources. You could have literally, and most likely have, made all of these up. Like, you do realize that just stating nonsense doesn't make it true, right? I could write nine million different cases of you getting laid, but that doesn't make you any less of a virgin.
>>77705413>It's everyone else who's insaneSo was King Antiochus Epiphanes of Syria a Nazi, in 169 BC?Dumbass.
>>77705581I explained the tools. Banks in the past were not able to invent to anywhere near the same degree they did in the past due to the difference in communication technology.
>>77705627>Nor do any of them come with sourcesTry opening your eyes, retard. The sources are right there in the document.FYI a source typically looks something like this:(Acta sancta., III July Vol 1. 472)
>>77705646>King Antiochus Epiphanes of Syria Most likely also believed in fairies, djinns, birds flying around being a omen. All kind of stupid nonsense, really.
>>77705661At which point I'll just repeated myself; communication technology has nothing to with it. It only amplifies the speed and scale. You haven't "explained yourself". You've just made a retarded and baseless statement
>>77705691Ignoring the fact that only a few have those kind of texts behind them. They do not come with a link or actual worthwhile citation. Even if they did, just by glancing at them I can tell most of the sources are incredibly unreliable.
>>77705710Do you believe in the Canaanites?It's obvious you're just a butthurt jew and have an emotional investment in burying this piece of history. It's OKAY, dumbass, I'm not saying all jews practiced it, it was something that was only passed down by a small group of people.
>>77705627Stop being a sheeple.
>>77705735There is nothing retarded or baseless about it. You literally know fucking nothing about how banks used to operate. It was literally impossible for them to have much control over society simply because of the nature of how society worked in general.
>every race, culture, and religion throughout history was just lying
>>77705771Your opinion based on your feelings isn't evidence. The historical accounts are enough to prove you false
>>77705762Anon, you literally still believe in medieval propaganda. There is not a bigger sheep in the world than you. >>77705757>Do you believe in the Canaanites?I believe they existed. If they actually performed human sacrifices, that we don't know for sure since most sources are from the Jews themselves (Which, amusingly enough, strongly condemns practices like child sacrifices.) and possibly just propaganda.
>>77705811What evidence? There is no evidence to indicate banks held any serious degree of control over society. In fact, most banks went out of business because a King simply decided not to pay his bills and, lacking a army, they got away with it. >>77705785They were either lying or just plain wrong. Just like they wrong about Rain being a act of god. Supernatural creatures existing. And all other kind of nonsense civilized society left long ago.
>>77705866*Banks lacking a army
>>77705832>I believe they existed. If they actually performed human sacrifices, that we don't know for sure since most sources are from the Jews themselves (Which, amusingly enough, strongly condemns practices like child sacrifices.) and possibly just propaganda.It's not just the jews, but the Canaanites were also condemned by the Greeks and Romans as well for their human sacrifice rituals.Now, try and imagine a group of Canaanites who convert to Judaism. The Christians have taken Christmas trees from pagans, (in fact the entire feast of Christmas is from the pagan winter solstice); statues of Mary were repurposed from Statues of Venus; etc. So just think about what rituals a Moloch or a Baal worshipper who converted to Judaism might take with him.
>>77705785Except the Jews
>>77694067Literacy rates in the middle ages were about 5-20% and skewed towards the ruling elites, merchants, priests, scribes and others who had a need for it.Yeah, you'd have a few peasants who could read here and there. But that does not change the fact that literacy was a rarity.
>>77705866>In fact, most banks went out of business because a King simply decided not to pay his bills and, lacking a army, they got away with itThe funny thing about armies is, they cost money. And the funny thing about kings who have no money (or credit), is that they can't afford to raise large armies. So there's a very real motivation to the king not to ruin his credit.
>>77705531Canaanites did not practice ritual child sacrifice, you’re fucking unhinged. Crazy nazi memes and the bible are not legitimate historical sources. There’s a MASSIVE corpus of archaeological literature for the Canaanites, they’re one of the most thoroughly-excavated cultures in human history, and there is not a single shred of evidence for child sacrifice in the archaic levant. Bulls, yes. Babies, no. Seriously, you’re frighteningly deluded and dangerously out of touch with reality, seek help
77705924>It's not just the jews, but the Canaanites were also condemned by the Greeks and Romans as well for their human sacrifice rituals.It's almost as if, and hear me out here, when propaganda from one culture spreads to another they tend to adopt it. Especially when that group has a very good reason to dislike the other one. Like, say, the Romans and the Greeks when it came to the Canaanites. Who were their major rival for control over the Mediterranean. >Now, try and imagine a group of Canaanites who convert to Judaism. I can. It's not at thing that happened. Nor was the human sacrifice performed by the Canaanites even remotely similar to the type of sacrifices you imbeciles claims Jews perform. In fact, the idea behind the blood libel is that Jews need it to cook Matzo. Something that, when you say it out loud, sounds really fucking stupid. Just as stupid as, say, for instance believing supernatural creatures replaced your baby with a changeling. Something that, curiously, people who believed in Blood Libels did.Now, am I saying that you are as stupid as the people that burned their own baby to death because they thought it was a fairy? No, of course not. You people are far more stupid. Like I said earlier, ignorance is a choice yet you choose to remain ignorant.
>>77706042You see, what you don't understand is that you don't need a large army to simply browbeat the local bank into not having to pay debt. You just needed a army, which kings typically had in abundance. They didn't give a fuck about credit because when they really wanted money, they would typically find a way. With or without banks.
>>77706086What absolute monarchy had both terrible credit and their own army big enough to defeat transnational banking interests?
>>77706051It's especially funny when you remember that there is one place that absolutely DID use to perform human sacrifices in its distant past: Germany.Now, I'm not saying that all of the murders blamed on Jews were actually caused by Germans still sticking to old traditions. But, what i am saying is that just as much reliable evidence exists for that claim as do any blood libel.
>>77706051>Canaanites did not practice ritual child sacrifice, you’re fucking unhinged. Crazy nazi memes and the bible are not legitimate historical sources.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TophetThe jews seemed to think their neighbors committed child sacrifice.But the jews are just nazis though I guess.Take meds.
>>77706110>Absolute monarchy.You dumbass, you absolute fucking imbecile. It's amazing just how much this one comment reveals the absolute lack of knowledge about any aspect of this subject.
>>77706051>>77706132>seek help>take medsFuck both of you.Although the one arguing that Jews didn't get sacrifice gentile children is obviously wrong.
>>77705832I’ve been researching bronze and early iron age levantine cultures for like two decades, I have read literally hundreds of excavation site reports and many more academic articles and dozens of serious books on the topic. I can tell you for a certainty that there is no evidence of human sacrifice in the Levant later than the neolithic. In Mesopotamia and Egypt there’s some evidence of human sacrifice in elite funerary rituals in the 4th and 3rd millennium, but none later, and none in the levant, and that’s rare and a far cry from the idiotic bullshit this nazi is hallucinating.
>>77706132It's incredible how you seem to simply not understand the concept of propaganda. Like, why the fuck do you think Jews would claim their hostile neighbors performed human sacrifices?
>>77706183The Old Testament explicitly forbids human sacrifices.
>>77705924>So just think about what rituals a Moloch or a Baal worshipper who converted to Judaism might take with him.Luckily, some of us don’t have to imagine, because we have facts. I can recommend some books for you if you want to learn how utterly full of shit you are.
>>77694610>i am literally the very first person born on this planet who is smarter than a monkey>what do you mean people just like me lived all over for thousands of years>noooo. i am special, they were all illiterate
>>77706191There are apparently some mass graves for children in Cartharge that some people think might be tied to human sacrifices. But, just going by a quick google search, that is the one bit of vague archeological evidence supporting what otherwise seems to just be propaganda put forth by ancient Isreal.
>>77706163So he got his vassals to enforce against the banks on his behalf, then?>Please vassal>I'm broke, go fight a bank so I don't have to pay>Don't take his bribes to overthrow me insteadIt'd have to be n absolute monarchy, wouldn't it?Either way. It's a retarded fanfic premise you're speculating on/making up with nothing to support it
>>77706194>It's incredible how you seem to simply not understand the concept of propaganda.>Like, why the fuck do you think Jews would claim their hostile neighbors performed human sacrifices?It's incredible how you don't understand the concept of propaganda yourself. Do you not realize that someone guilty of a crime would lie about it? To determine the truth, you have to look at all available sources and think critically. When one person had hundreds of accounts against him, in multiple different countries, by multiple unrelated people, across many years, but he swears he's innocent, who do you think is likely to be lying?
>>77706132The bible is a load of bullshit. 2nd century religious propaganda is not a reliable source for ancient history, it was written many centuries after the era it claims to depict. There’s not even a valid archaeological argument for distinguishing between “Canaanites” and “Hebrews” in the 1st millennium BCE, those are anachronistic ethnic identities that were made up long after the fact and retroactively imposed via editorial fuckery to support roman-era political disputes.
>>77706258Carthage =\= the LevantMass graves =\= Child sacrifice
>>77706223>Luckily, some of us don’t have to imagine, because we have facts. I can recommend some books for you if you want to learn how utterly full of shit you are.Lmao you have to be a troll. What books? All the books in this thread were posted by people refuting you.Read these, and get back to me:>>77705531>>77704789
>>77700444>noooo you can't just make your setting conform to what's currently popular you have to spend your entire life thinking about how the world could be worse and shittier
>>77706260No, you fucking twat, he just sends in ten guys to shut down the local bank. Which they could do fuck all about. >Either way. It's a retarded fanfic premise you're speculating on/making up with nothing to support itNo, that would be your insane ideas.
>>77706297There's no real reason to take ancient Jews at their word though, they're a proven bad source because they've been shown to lie about other elements of their history (slavery in Egypt, for one).Not to say there weren't religions centered around human sacrifice - there obviously were - but antique Jews make for a very suspicious historical source unless backed up by other sources, preferably enemies.
>>77706297Are you just completely ignoring your own ideas about certain Jews being converted Canaanites? You folks can't argue your way out of a paper bag, you know that.>When one person had hundreds of accounts against him, in multiple different countries, by multiple unrelated people, across many years, but he swears he's innocent, who do you think is likely to be lying?That's the rub though, it's not one person.
>>77706333I'm aware. I think that, alongside the bible, the idea comes from.
>>77706333>Carthage =\= the LevantLitteraly a colony started by Phoenicians. You're really showing a great deal of either dishonesty or ignorance. Maybe next you'll be saying phonecians had to nothing to do with Cannan?
>>77706335Both that book and the shitty pastebin is nothing but unreliable sources. Learn how that works before you open your big stupid mouth.>>77706406>Litteraly a colony started by Phoenicians. Yes, and as we all know the USA is EXACTLY like the UK. No cultural differences whatsoever.
>>77706333>Sources alleging child sacrifice are wrong>Archaeological sites of child mass graves don't indicate child sacrifice>A semitic colony has nothing to do with its parent culture>>77706438>Both that book and the shitty pastebin is nothing but unreliable sources.Can you please refute these sources then? Should be easy, if they're so unreliable.Oh, what do you mean, you can't refute them? But you said they were bad sources. I guess if you can't refute a bad source, you're an idiot then.
>>77702093>Where does white skin originate from?Depends on the setting
>>77706438Are the same bigger claiming you know everything about the Levant? Because the cultural continuity isn't on dispute by anyone educated on the subject
>>77694216>you just want to use it as an excuse for your equally bullsuit setting conceptsimplying that bullsuit OP actually plays
>>77706471>Sources alleging child sacrifice are wrongYes.>Archaeological sites of child mass graves don't indicate child sacrificeYes.>A semitic colony has nothing to do with its parent cultureDoesn't mean its a exact copy.>an you please refute these sources then?Most of them just come from historical accounts made by the very people that would naturally have a reason to lie about this crap.
>>77706438>yes, and as we all know the USA is EXACTLY like the UK. No cultural differences whatsoeverSo you're lying then
>>77706478The question is not if there is cultural continuity. The question is if a mass grave in one punic city is evidence that it happened in the Levant as well.It's a bit like a historian now assuming that, since mass shootings are normal in the USA, they therefore MUST have happened in 1600 England.
>>77706505>Most of them just come from historical accounts made by the very people that would naturally have a reason to lie about this crap.That's not a refutation. A refutation is an actual argument, backed up by sources of your own, which detail why the author's research is incorrect, and in what specific way.
>>77706520No. You are just genuinely too stupid to understand anything.
>>77706528So the greeks, Roman's, and earlier Jewish accounts are just lying again and its a just a huge coincidence
>>77706335I’m not reading your stupid neonazi meme, and neither have you. I read REAL BOOKS by ACTUAL ARCHAEOLOGISTS AND HISTORIANSShit like:“ASOR Archaeological Reports 6.1; Shechem III, The Stratigraphy and Architecture of Tel Balatah”and“J. M. Roberts, The Earliest Semitic Pantheon”and “Nomads, Tribes and States in the Ancient Near East, Cross-disciplinary Perspectives”and “The Fire Signals of Lachish - Studies in the Archaeology and History of Israel in the late bronze age, iron age, and persian period in honor of David Ussishkin,”and “Essays on Ancient Israel in its Near Eastern Context - a tribute to Nadav Na’aman”and “The Lives of Ordinary People in Ancient Israel,” “Excavations at Tel Dalit,” “Excavation of Gezer II”etc etc etc I could go on all day, and guess what, they all said that you’re an illiterate nazi moron!
>>77706547You're dishonest psued that thinks you're clever enough fool people with solopisms. You're not
>>77706562No. It's logical for those groups to believe in that nonsense considering they all had fierce rivalries with punic states.
>>77703949They were pretty effectively rooted out and these days it'll seriously hurt your career in Hollywood to express any views that deviate from baseline democrat liberalism. There might be communist sympathisers in a few writing rooms but no major studio is going to let genuinely radical messaging slip through.
>>77706531It is a refutation when the only evidence you post is a historical document made by people with a bias against the group in question.As for a source against it, I've already explained several times that the Bible explicitly forbids performing child sacrifices. As well as that the reason why people blame jews is inherently ridiclous.
>>77706596I don't expect to convince people as stupid as you of anything.
>>77694439They didn’t call it rape back then, they called it “seduction”. Approved for MYFAROG and LoTFP tournament play
>>77706623There are communists in Hollywood. Their films are never big blockbusters. They sometimes turn into cult classics or "underrated" films, but they're all fairly watered down. Sorry For Bothering You is a film written and directed by an admitted Communist and the most hardline message he could get through was "Prison-Industrial Complex Bad". Hollywood has as much interest in rocking their lavish yachts as Musk does in letting Ecuador actually set its own prices for Lithium.
>>77706649Im sure you're trying hard enough to convince yourself as it is
>>77706703Anon, your insane ideas have only served to convince me in the one conviction I share above all else. Which is that you people are fucking mental and should be locked up.
>>77705240>Anon, Epstein clients consisted of just as many white people as it did jewssure, let's assume soby how much percentage were jews overrepresented in this case?
>>77706355What stops 10 random peasants from robbing them?
>>77706752Not at all.
>>77706730Ah yes. "Anyone that disagrees with my sophistry should be locked up". I thought I recognize you from another thread. But I doubt you can can even tell me what views are.
>>77706585>I’m not readingLMAO that much is obviousPlutarch was a Nazi? Diodorus Siculus? Cleitarchus?LMAO, you clearly have no idea of history if you think that any of these people were born in the modern era.Here's a couple of books for you:"Child sacrifice in Carthage: religious rite or population control?""Late Carthaginian Child Sacrifice and Sacrificial Monuments in their Mediterranean Context."Oh no! Turns you you forgot to finish your reading!>>77706630>It is a refutation when the only evidence you post is a historical document made by people with a bias against the group in question.When you come into someone's country and start murdering their children, this tends to cause people not to like you.
>>77706766The fact that the local lord would have those ten random peasants executed or jailed for breaking the law.
>>77694624Tell me about the game you were in that had Jews in the setting. I’ll wait.
>>77706793Fuck off nazi freak >>>/pol/
>>77694017>OP is on /tg/>he thinks he can read and write>he thinks he has equal rights>he thinks he's worth equal rights>he thinks people give a shit about him>he's a comical idiot
>>77706784I can can tell you what views are. I could even tell you what your views are, since i know your mentally deranged type.
>>77706829Ok my lying psued friend. What are my views?
>>77706793>Plutarch was a Nazi? Diodorus Siculus? Cleitarchus?No, but they were also products of their time that were often wrong about the world around them.>When you come into someone's country and start murdering their children, this tends to cause people not to like you.It's more that when you have a territorial rival you need a good reason to hate them other than just being a material treat.
>>77706773so there are as many jews as whites in the whole society? Or are you arguing that jews weren't overrrepresented because you believe so?
>>77706683And nobody is going to ask Boots Riley to direct the new Star Wars. But yes, that's basically what I'm saying. You can find individuals who believe any old crap in an industry that size, but overall messaging is tightly controlled.
>>77705187where the fuck was this taking place in?
>>77706855Everybody of every time in every location has said the same thing about jews, minus a small group of boomers raised on television
>>77706852You most likely believe in ethnostates as something that is viable.You believe Hitler did nothing wrong. You believe that Jews are responsible for everything bad in the world, but also somehow inferior to whites regardless. You think that all of this is reason why you can't get laid.Feel free to correct me.
>>77706910Litteraly wrong about everything. Take meds. Now.
>>77706860Jews are overrepresented in the upper class of the USA. But not noticeably so in the Epstein case.
>>77706793I like how your argument went from “Jews viciously slaughtered babies all around the world throughout history” to “Carthaginians put infants in urns in the 4th century BC”, real coherent anti-semitic bullshit you’ve got there, dumbass
>>77706906Ignoring the fact you are actually just plain wrong. A lot of people used to believe in things that were clearly false. Your hatred of Jews merely reveals how backwards you are.>>77706920Then, do correct me.
>>77706793It seems like you found a couple of journal articles from the 80s. Without reading any of the texts you or >>77706585 are referring to it sure looks as if the weight of scholarship is on his side.
>>777068671500s Northern Italy, see “The Cheeses and the Worms” by Carlos Ginzburg
>>77706933>applying the term anti-semetic to caananites
>>77706933It's almost like their arguments are insane and when you follow up on anything their entire argument collapses in on itself.
>>77706950I've been correcting your sorry arrogant ass this entire thread. Lmao
>>77707005I didn't know you were this delusional, anon.
>>77706793>Biblical Archaeology Societyget a real source, that’s a fanfic club for idiot cultists pretending to do archaeology because it gets dumbfuck christians to give them moneyThey’ve published blatant forgeries before and are a joke among real archaeologists
>>77706855>It's more that when you have a territorial rival you need a good reason to hate them other than just being a material treat.Though medieval jews weren't a territorial rival. In fact, they owned no territory at all.On the other hands, the culturally-similar Canaanites and their colonies controlled vast swaths of territory in the Mediterranean.Yet both have the same accusation against them.>>77706963Uhhh... try checking that again because the second source is from 1991 and many of his sources are earlier than that. Not that the publication date really means anything, when the papers I have posted explicitly talk about the archaeological evidence for child sacrifice, while his papers are simply broad-topic papers that probably only lightly touch on the topic.
>>77707040My lying psued friend you just accused me of being a Nazi incel because on you're mind only a Nazi incel could possibly disagree with you. You are the definition of delusional
>>77707055>ad hominemAll so tiresome
>>77705187>>77706867I'm guessing it's pic related, so Italy.I'd argue that a prosperous miller isn't really "dirt poor" but point well taken, the man was for sure of humble stock.
>>77706977Holy fuck are you really this dumb? Do you seriously not know what a “Semite” is? It’s people who speak Semitic languages, you fucking troglodyte. Please stop embarrassing yourself like this.
>>77707083I mean, if you aren't a Nazi incel but you still believe in Jewish conspiracy theories then you are just as much of a mentally ill twat as a Nazi incel. If anything, I would encourage you not to tell me what you actually believe in now since any association with you would mean I view it less favorably.
>>77707091He went from being “prosperous” to being flat-out impoverished when the inquisition confined him to his village and made him wear a cloth marking him a heretic, it impacted his fortunes so markedly that he successfully petitioned to get a lighter sentence after some years, but then he started talking shit again and got burned alive at the stake
>>77706933My argument never changed retard.First I was talking about how jews engaged in ritual sacrifice, then the topic was brought up of canaanites, and I have moved onto this as well.Both are Semitic cultures, and therefore it is likely that they would share some degree of cultural similarities. Accounts of jewish ritual murder go as far back as at least 2nd century BC.
>>77707088get a real sourceor go back to >>>/pol/
>>77707185Sure, I'll get a real source.>Plutarch>Diodorus Siculus>Cleitarchus>"Child sacrifice in Carthage: religious rite or population control?">"Late Carthaginian Child Sacrifice and Sacrificial Monuments in their Mediterranean Context."
>>77707060>Though medieval jews weren't a territorial rival. In fact, they owned no territory at all.Fun fact, anon. Canaanites were not around during the middle ages. Meanwhile, territory owning Jews were a thing when the Canaanites were at the height of the their power.>On the other hands, the culturally-similar Canaanites and their colonies controlled vast swaths of territory in the Mediterranean.They are about as culturally similar as Norway and Brazil. >Yet both have the same accusation against them.Almost as if Human sacrifices is a easy propaganda tool.
>>77707180>First I was talking about how jews engaged in ritual sacrificeBut they didn’t. There’s not a single shred of evidence for that, ever. Like, NONE. Literally none.
>>77707150Sounds like you're the one who believes in a vast conspiracy from Persia to Britain from 2nd century BC to modern day, to falsely accuse a religious group of a specific religious practice.
>>77707180>Both are Semitic cultures, and therefore it is likely that they would share some degree of cultural similarities.To assume that means they both sacrifice humans when 1: One culture's religious document explicitly forbids that. 2: The idea that the Canaanites perform human sacrifice is highly debatable is such a massive leap that I'm surprised you aren't currently suffocating in space.
>>77707227Whoops, did I forget to post the source?No, wait, I did, right here>>77704789>>77705531I can tell you're a natural at playing stupid, but it won't work. I can just keep linking them every time you claim I don't have sources.
>>77707218A guy claiming "This thing happened" is not a reliable source on its self, you moron.
>>77707180If Jews sacrificed babies the way Carthaginians are alleged (by unreliable interpretation) to have done, then how come we have mass graves in Carthage with infants stuffed in pots, but nothing like that in any site from any era in the Levant? If what you say is true, why isn’t there any proof? And once again, just to preempt, your anti-semitic ravings are not proof of anything. Archaeological evidence might constitute proof, if there were any. But there’s not.
>>77694017>peasants can read and writeNot historical but not beyond imagination if, for example, nuns and monks teach (very) basic literacy to children as part of Sunday school. >women have equal rightsBullshit even in the present day. Equal rights with unequal duties means oppression. But in fantasy women don't have to be incompetent so equal rights with equal duties can exist. >minorities have equal rightsSo? You know Jews like Paul and Josephus were Roman citizens and had all the rights that came with it, right? Civis Romanus sum, not Tribus Romanus sum, ok? Ave Caesar. >people give a shit about concepts like human rightsWhere do you think the human rights doctrine came from, nigger? It's the secular version of Natural Law (but not so secular that it can exist without invoking a Creator or Être Suprême). Surprisingly ideas don't emerge in a vacuum, but every giant stands on the shoulders of the last. >nobles are comically evil idiotsSome were comically fucked up though. Marquis de Sade, anyone ?
>>77707255No, it's not a conspiracy. People just liked to use the same excuse.>>77707286Both utterly unreliable.
>>77707273>1: One culture's religious document explicitly forbids that.Leviticus 18:21"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord."This CLEARLY STATES that it is forbidden to sacrifice YOUR OWN children, not the children of goyim.>2: The idea that the Canaanites perform human sacrifice is highly debatable is such a massive leap "Late Carthaginian Child Sacrifice and Sacrificial Monuments in their Mediterranean Context."
>>77707218Ah yes, Diodorus Siculus, the guy who said that someone named “Ninus” (who never existed) was the founder of Nineveh. Nice one. Great sources you’ve got, idiot. And Plutarch, might be a good source if we were talking about Alexander or Caesar, but when it comes to Israel he’s literally just reporting hearsay.
>>77707298Archaeological evidence found within:"Late Carthaginian Child Sacrifice and Sacrificial Monuments in their Mediterranean Context."
>>77705187Millers were a pretty special group in medieval society.
>>77707150>Actually doubling down You dont even know who you're arguing with or why. You just want to win the argument even if it means lying or contradicting yourself. You're basically a zealot or a religious fantantic
>>77707286You don’t seem to know what evidence is. Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence. Nazi ravings are not evidence. Ancient hearsay is not evidence. Go fucking neck yourself, nazi scum.
>>77707342>This CLEARLY STATES that it is forbidden to sacrifice YOUR OWN children, not the children of goyim.No, it states it's forbids for anybody to sacrifice their own children. Since Gods law applies to all. >"Late Carthaginian Child Sacrifice and Sacrificial Monuments in their Mediterranean Context."Cases in favor and against exist. We simply don't know for sure.
>>77707376A mass grave of children is not evidence of child sacrifice.
>>77707098The term antisemitism is used exclusively concerning jews, which is why Arabs for example are often called anti-semetic for criticizing white jews. Are you being retarded on purpose?
>>77707342Leviticus was composed like a thousand years after the period it claims to be about. Moloch was actively worshipped by the inhabitants of 1st and 2nd millennium sites in the Levant as a member of the broader west semitic pantheon, and there is no evidence whatsoever of child sacrifice. They sacrificed bulls and sheep to semitic deities, and there’s loads and loads of archaeological evidence of that, but NONE of child sacrifice.
>>77707394I'm not lying or contradicting myself. I have yet to meet anybody with your opinion who is sane. Feel free to prove me wrong, but so far you are not making a good case.
>>77707342https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.2307/3120242oh wow it’s fucking nothing, just an illiterate neonazi spouting bullshit about things he hasn’t read
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>>77707321>No, it's not a conspiracy. People just liked to use the same excuse.Religious groups like to use the same rituals more than people like to make the same false accusation.>>77707301>but nothing like that in any site from any era in the Levant?Sacred Killing: The Archaeology of Sacrifice in the Ancient Near East>>77707363>Diodorus SiculusLiterally one of the most important chroniclers in history>>77707400Sounds like one side (mine) has all the evidence and all you have is... sticking your head in the sand?Don't even know why you're still here. Just admit you have nothing at all to support your claims.>>77707408>No, it states it's forbids for anybody to sacrifice their own childrenLet's reread this shall we?"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord."ANY OF THY SEEDPlease tell me what you think that phrase means. P.S. Seed means semen. P.P.S. This is a reference to paternal lineage.
>>77707457“MLK” just means “king” and was a term applied to several different deities, none of which featured baby sacrificesthe bible is not a reliable historical source by any metric whatsoever>>77707376>Brown describes scholarly disputes over whether the buried children were actually sacrificed
>>77707457Pretty sure that multiple Roman authors, including Plutarch, attest that child sacrifice happened in Phoenicia. A counterargument may be found in Tertullian, but only in so far as he believed that the children were only sacrificed after they had already died of different causes.
>>77707507Fuck off nazi freak
>>77707507>Religious groups like to use the same rituals more than people like to make the same false accusationNot really. Nor is the ritual itself encouraged or allowed by the Jewish bible anyway. >ANY OF THY SEEDYes. As in: You, a human being. Creation of God. Descendant of Adam and Eve. To assume this means it's okay to sacrifice somebodies else child is a insane leap.
>>77707564Roman authors had a VERY good reason to make wild claims about Phoenincia. It could be true, but it's pretty hard to view them as reliable when they probably hated Cartharge more than most of their enemies.
>>77707481Read chapter 3And try posting a link that doesn't return an error
>>77707507Stop citing shit you haven’t read, dumbass. That book does not support your jew-bashing bullshit in any way.
>>77707507>Sacred Killing: The Archaeology of Sacrifice in the Ancient Near EastLink or shut the fuck up.>Literally one of the most important chroniclers in historyDoesn't mean he can't be wrong.>Sounds like one side (mine) has all the evidence and all you have is... sticking your head in the sand?You have zero reliable evidence. Meanwhile, he has posted nothing but archeological evidence.
>>77707579>Yes. As in: You, a human being. Creation of God. Descendant of Adam and Eve. To assume this means it's okay to sacrifice somebodies else child is a insane leap.Hahaha, you have got to be joking.Now I know you're just trolling because this is the weakest bullshit I have ever heard in my life.
>>77707631https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.2307/3210242Chapter 3 casts significant doubt on the interpretation of those graves as sacrifices.
>>77707671I'm not joking. To assume this means its okay to sacrifice somebody else child is ludicrous. To pretend it encourages blood rituals is madness. If you cannot understand this you are unfit for society and should be given extensive mental health. Only let out when you renounce your insane conspiracy theories.
>>77707655>You have zero reliable evidence. Meanwhile, he has posted nothing but archeological evidence.Please post your evidence.All he has posted has been books with extremely broad titles like "All the gods of the ancient world" without such a thing as a page or chapter number, and treated it as if it is a source on the topic at hand.God you have to be pretty fucking stupid.
>>77707704Ignoring the fact you have literally done the exact same. You could have, you know, asked him for a exact quote or page number.
>>77707686Try rereading your review, because the review says the opposite.
>>77707737Please provide me a page number and a quotation then that specifically disproves human sacrifice ever happened in the Levant.
>>77706585See this: >>77707815Give me actual sources, actual citations. Don't just give me a book titled "History Volume 1" and acts like it supports what you're saying.
>>77707655I’ve actually read most of that “Sacred Killing” one, none of it is about human sacrifice in the Levant in the Hebrew eras. Most of it is about Neolithic Anatolia, one section is about the royal cemetery at Ur, only one section is even vaguely relevant to the nazi dipshit’s argument, “Mortal Mirrors: Creating Kin Through Human Sacrifice in 3rd Mill. Syro-Mesopotamia,” and that’s about retainers sacrificed in elite burials, not about child sacrifice in religious rites. And it includes this gem:>I must emphasize that the evidence is rare, for, of course, determining situations of sacrifice is a very difficult archaeological problem.
>>77707851Go fuck yourself nazi scum
>>77707686Not seeing it
>>77707757> >Brown describes scholarly disputes over whether the buried children were actually sacrificed
>>77707854Congratulations on supporting what I said moron. The question I was answering was:>but nothing like that in any site from any era in the Levant?Also>I must emphasize that the evidence is rare, for, of course, determining situations of sacrifice is a very difficult archaeological problem.You realize that you just BTFO yourself right? Evidence is rare because it is difficult to determine the cause of death for a person killed thousands of years ago.Your argument is: "We can't prove it either way so that means it never happened."My argument is: "We can't prove it either way but we can try to glean what information we can from the archeology to support a conclusion, and look at contemporary chroniclers"And your counterargument is "contemporary chroniclers were all liars, from every culture, and don't listen to them. All the evidence is gone that means it never happened"
>>77707940You’re so stupid it hurts
>>77707940>retainer sacrifices in elite burials from 5000 years ago are proof that my unhinged anti-semitic jew-bashing memes are legitwow. get help.
>>77708053>from any era in the Levant?>FROM ANY ERAI was responding to the question at hand.Also, when time has eroded all the physical evidence, the best sources we have are contemporary sources.>>77708016Yet you're the one who BTFO'd yourself. What does that say about you?
>>77708231You should seriously try reading any of the shit you posted. If your brain hasn’t completely turned to mush from all the bullshit you’ve been huffing, you might learn something, you might even be amazed at how ignorant you are.
>>77708290Sociopolitical Implications of Neolithic Foundation Deposits and the Possibility of Child Sacrifice: A Case Study at Çatalhöyük, Turkey (pp. 57-78) >Hurr durr it's Neolithic Southern Anatolia it doesn't count.And why not? It gives us context to the cultural practices of the region and the evolution of later cultures.Don't act like this stuff is completely alien to the region, which is what you were doing, and which I had just disproven.
>>77708290Also, you should try actually reading the things you claim to be reading, or you would have clearly seen that there was an entire chapter devoted to the topic at hand.
>>77707877Lmao, every time you say that it just makes me laugh at how you haveno sources
>>77708423>South Anatolia is the same region as the levant.It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
>>77707854Ignoring the nazi, the most interesting part of that book is the babies buried in house foundations at Catalhoyuk in the section by Sharon Moses. She interpreted that as evidence of child sacrifice, but since then it’s been shown that the burials are consistent with neolithic infant mortality profiles; see Hillson 2013 “The Human Remains I: Interpreting Community Structure Health and Diet in Neolithic Catalhoyuk”and Carter et al 2015 “Laying the foundations: Creating households at Neolithic Catalhoyuk”Regardless, how metal is that, burying your dead babies in the houses’ walls?Also, the very first paragraph of that book mentions how textual sources like the bible’s references to human sacrifice have “colored and shaped” the interpretation of ancient near eastern burial deposits, and cites Das 1983 “Language of Sacrifice” which is worth reading, giving a vedic perspective and providing a different angle from the abrahamic/semitic one. For the /pol/ idiots in this thread it bears repeating: Nothing in any of the academic works cited in this thread substantiates the grotesque accusations of jewish blood libel, and it’s safe to say that any relevant scholar would be disgusted to hear such ignorant and hateful misappropriation of their work.
>>77708550I'm not saying that this is evidence of Semitic ritual sacrifice, I am saying that there is evidence of child sacrifice in the region (yes Southern Anatolia is the same region as the Levant, they both make up the fertile crescent). This is a direct response to a direct question. It also gives a context to a prehistorical religion where this practice may have come from.The Semitic ritual sacrifice is more difficult to prove because the only evidence we have is from Carthage, and it's disputed. The problem is that we can not use physical evidence to prove the intent for why cremated babies were cremated. How the fuck do you expect anyone to do that? We can only rely on accounts given by Greeks, Romans and other neighbors.
>People on this site believe Jews sacrificed children so they could use their blood to make bread.And you wonder why I think you should be locked up.
>>77708423So now you’re saying that neonate burials in house foundations from 7000 BC are proof that jewish blood libel is real?That’s the most amazing cognitive contortion I have ever seen, and I’ve seem nazis make stupid arguments on 4chan for like, a decade. Congrats. Also, hilarious you posted that while I was typing >>77708696
>>77708761Amazing fucking strawman retard. I already addressed your ridiculous strawman here >>77708713
>>77708713>am saying that there is evidence of child sacrifice in the regionBut if you read your sources, there isn’t.
>>77708713>yes Southern Anatolia is the same region as the Levant, they both make up the fertile crescenOnly part of it. The rest consists out of mountainous terrain that has always had a vastly different culture.>How the fuck do you expect anyone to do that? I do not. It's unreliable and therefore essentially useless. It is literally more plausible that the practice of child sacrifice was adopted from Germanic tribes than from Punic settlements.
>>77708800I should add, by the way, that the most likely outcome is still simply that there are no child sacrifices. Since the entire idea has no place in any form of Jewish culture we know. Either now or then.
>>77708713I think that if there had really been a giant bronze bull-shaped oven that people at a specific site threw babies into for generations, there’d be evidence of that at that site, and there isn’t. What there IS, is evidence of very different religious sacrificial customs that bear no resemblance to that description in the bible, which again, was written a thousand years later. A giant bronze crematory bull is a pretty specific claim, and what we find instead are incense altars and temple kitchens. Weird.Also, cremation leaves bones behind, if they were cremating babies we’d find partially burnt bones of cremated babies somewhere, and we don’t. Because you’re full of shit.
>>77708800>It is literally more plausible that the practice of child sacrifice was adopted from Germanic tribes than from Punic settlements.Now this is absolutely absurd.Do you have any undisputed archeological sources for Germanic child sacrifice, or for jewish settlers adopting abolished, prehistorical pagan Germanic cultural practices?>>77708905It's almost like, get this, we don't have a magic x-ray vision that lets us see where all the valuable religious relics from over 2000 years ago were buried. And also, human remains typically degrade over time unless preserved in some way. And also, bronze is a valuable metal and would have been repurposed once the religion it served was abolished.
My fave human sacrifice site in the ANE is the “skull building” at Cayönü Tepesinazi punks should go fuck themselves though
>>77709092>Do you have any undisputed archeological sources for Germanic child sacrificeYes. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/germanys-stonehenge-reveals-evidence-human-sacrifice-180969491/https://www.livescience.com/62939-german-stonehenge-human-sacrifices.html>or for jewish settlers adopting abolished, prehistorical pagan Germanic cultural practices?No. But it's as plausible as the theory that they adopted it from people that used to be their enemy.
>>77709092> don't have a magic x-ray vision that lets us see where all the valuable religious relics from over 2000 years ago were buriedWe have excavations, you halfwit
>>77709173>who may have been sacrificedSorry but "may have" isn't good enough if we're going by your own rules>>77709176Yes and look at what experts say about burial excavations >>77707854>>I must emphasize that the evidence is rare, for, of course, determining situations of sacrifice is a very difficult archaeological problem.From your own mouth.Is there any consistency at all to anything you believe in?
>>77709252Shut the fuck up and go read a book
>>77709252They’re saying that as an issue of interpretation, not one of lacking remains. Israel is the most thoroughly-excavated country on the planet, they have an absolutely ludicrous number of dig sites, every major tell has been excavated. And that book is about the fucking neolithic, not the early iron age.
>>77709252>Sorry but "may have" isn't good enough if we're going by your own rulesThere is way, WAY more evidence for it than punic people doing any of it.
>>77709515I'm the only one in this thread who actually posted any sources that support the main topic of discussion.Why don't you read a book and give me a page citation. The closest thing you've done is posted a refutation to one chapter of one book I posted, which wasn't even central to my argument, just tangential.You haven't proved a single thing, dumbass.
>>77709600Encyclopedia of Religions Vol 10. 2nd Ed, “Phoenician Religion: Further Considerations” by Tawny Holm, page 7134-7135You can get it on libgen>None of the proposed gods Moloch could be identified with is associated with human sacrifice, the god Mlk of Ugarit received only animal sacrifice, and the mlk sacrifice is never offered to a god name Mlk but rather to another deity.And you can read literally ANY book on the history and archaeology of Canaanite religion in the late bronze to early iron age, and see that animal sacrifice was nearly universal, while human sacrifice is completely unattested to.
>>77709570>And that book is about the fucking neolithic, not the early iron age.For the last time, I have already stated the reason why I cited the book. The question I was responding to was to provide evidence of child sacrifice in the region in ANY ERA. This is a tangent which is only loosely related to the main topic.So far this has been the conversation:>Jews commit ritual murder, here are around 3 dozen sources>Nuh-uh>Also their neighbors the Canaanites do too. Here are about 5 sources.>Nuh-uh. There's no evidence for any child sacrifice in the region in any time period>Yeah there is, but it's only loosely connected, because it's hard to prove one way or another with physical evidence>Oh but that site could have just been infant mortality. That proves that jews have never performed any ritual murdersIt's absurd the path this argument has taken
>>77709859how can you be this detached from reality? You are delusional. You need to talk to a therapist. I’m telling you this out of concern: get help.
>>77709850In the 1920s the Tophet of Salammbo was discovered which contains literally thousands of urns and sacrificial tools inscribed with "mlk". The only way one can conclusively claim there was no Punic human sacrifice is to fully refute this site as well as all the contemporaries.Also, there is this:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_of_IsaacThere wouldn't be a myth about human sacrifice unless it was already in the general consciousness.
>FEED ME YOUR BABIES
>>77710035It’s a trope because it’s the sort of shit you make up about people to slander them
>>77710064Careful, you’ll scare the nazi!
>>77710086>It’s a trope because it’s the sort of shit you make up about people to slander themThe Binding of Isaac wasn't meant to slander anyone though.The story was that God asks Abraham to tie up and sacrifice his son. At the last minute, God gives Abraham an animal to sacrifice instead.The message is clear: that YHWH would never make you kill your own son.So why would a myth like this exist? It could only exist to assuage a fear that was already present for Semitic people in the region.
>>77710216Reminder: The bible was written from roughly 200 BC - 200 AD, it bears almost no relationship whatsoever with the reality of the eras it purports to describe, which in this case is around 1000 BC Like, it’s not even right about what states existed, let alone their worship habits.
>>77710236>sacrificial term mlkThe tools at the tophet are inscribed with this. The scholars believe therefore that they were used for sacrifice.I believe that one of the sources I previously mentioned already brought this up.
>>77706623>The CCP doesn't exist
>>77710292Genesis was believed to have been written 1500-500 BC. (The 500 BC estimates only refer to the latest revision, not the original script).
>>77710131Sack of Carthage best day of my life.Three wars weren't enough.
>>77710399But that’s wrong, baka