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>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here: http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial: http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.html
It’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/.

>Resources for Older Editions
https://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ (embed)

>Resources for Third Edition
3E Core and Splats
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e

Errata for Third Edition
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

Essence: What we know so far
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nLWtrRoGHAmugZAGdrLUu0swsB6K1BKHXx2dUuUuBAY/edit

Other 3e Resources
https://pastebin.com/MBsmfhTy (embed)

Alternate Systems to run the game
https://pastebin.com/bpxVFcv0 (embed)

Previous Thread: >>76894016

Threadly Reminder: There is no piece of Exalted art with more aesthetic and soul than the ExWoD iconic Dawn Caste: Michael Cera in a horse mask.
>>
>>76943144
EXWOD has nothing to do with Exalted, it's tainted, homebrew shit and doesn't belong in these threads.
>>
>>76943350
That has nothing to do with the aesthetic, and you are free to make your own OP next time.

You were caught napping.
>>
>>76943144
How is ExWoD anyways?
>>
>>76944446
Mechanically? It’s a refined version of First Edition and therefore the best rule set this games ever had. Lunars are poorly implemented though and there’s some annoying nerfs to crafting and sorcery that’s pretty easy to house rule away. Fluff wise? Fantastic, Holden outdid himself in creating an interesting set-up and there’s some fun fluff pieces. I’ve been playing it for awhile now.
>>
>>76944554
>Fluffwise?
I've always been bothered by the idea of Infernals being associated with Yama Kings since Burn Legend started the idea. They're just...so lame compared to the Yozis.
>>
>>76945003
The only other options would be to bring the Yozi back [which I think is a terrible idea as it’s nowhere even implied they survive that long] or connect them to the Wyrm. I could see a rendition of the Infernals based on the Wyrm, but I really like the Kuei-Jim mythology so I’ll welcome these Infernals.
>>
>>76945390
Fuck it, I'd rather have had the Yozis survive seething somewhere than this crap. I've never been a fan of the Kuel-Jin mythology nor do I think the Wyrm fits unless he was translated into Literally Malfeas, so I'd rather the Infernals still get their powers from the actual Yozis than a bunch of losers like Emma-O and the rakshasa faggot who was wrecked so badly he's still recovering in his temple.

Yama Kings are the sort of threat Infernals should be enslaving from the get-go.
>>
>>76945522
Yama Kings are Essence 6-9 spirits in Exalted terms, hardly the sorts of things starting Infernals could enslave. In any case *I* like what Holden did with Infernals because I like the KotE/Asian mythos in the WoD.
>>
>>76943144
Unironically fun fiction too
>>
>>76945616
I find that rather hard to believe based on their presentation in 1000 Hells, unless that's something explicitly stated in the latest version of ExWoD. I like asian myth too, and that's why I find them underwhelming by comparison compared to the Yozis.
>>
>>76945616
>Yama Kings are Essence 6-9 spirits in Exalted terms, hardly the sorts of things starting Infernals could enslave
Starting Exalt's could kick the absolute shit out of things like that. The thing most people forget about Exalted is spirits aren't shit. Hell, most NPC's aren't shit. They're not made to stand up to the bullshit Exalt's put out. Fuckin' Brawlchad Solar would have them sucking his dick-Literally, if he took Performance.
>>
>>76945003
Think of it the other way around, the Hells formed around the Infernal shards, so the Yama Kings are associated with THEM, rather than vice versa.
>>
>>76945522
Infernals don't get their powers from the YK's at all.
>>
>>76946001
This
In EXVSWOD fluff the 1000 hells were created to keep the Infernal exaltations trapped so it makes more sense that they influenced the hells development also the Yama kings have no link to the exaltations.
The exaltations reflect the "themes" of the hells themselves.
>>
>>76944554

>Mechanically? It’s a refined version of First Edition and therefore the best rule set this games ever had.

But Quixalted existed long before ExWoD
>>
>>76947837
>Quixalted
>Eat shit to a mere five Dragonblooded
>ExWoD
>Can pop FFBW and kill infinity Dragonblooded.

Heh
>>
>>76948128
Sad that the revised version is nerfing scene long charms.
>>
>>76948222
The old scenelongs are included as part of the alternative rules, along with stuff like optional Limit mechanics.
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>>76946001
That is a better way to put it yeah, on second thought I was really more bitter at the initial presentation from Burn Legend where Infernals quite literally start off as Akuma who get powers from the Thousand Hells then have to die to be judged by the Yama Kings and somehow be strong enough to will themselves back to life with part of their soul bonded to Yomi Wan.
>>
>>76948128
>eat shit to a mere five dragonblooded
>still thinking this
Some other guy was complaining about this as well; this isn't actually the case. Look at this link that explains it. https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/75615593/#75619236

That said, ExWoD is still pretty good. Not enough to redeem Holden of defending a sexpest, but good enough that I'd actually consider playing it.
>>
>>76945522
Yama Kings are way more interesting than Yozis or their 3cds though. Keep seething.
>>
>>76948474
I love Burn Legend, but then I have a general dislike for Infernals in general, because as soon as they were released every fucking time a new campaign started or someone had to make a new character, they wanted an Infernal. Even in Dynast or Autocthonia games where this would be inappropriate. The gigantic raging hardon some fans had for them just makes me skim past them in pretty much everything, like how every football announcer would not shut the fuck up about Bret Farve, even when they're commentating for games he's not even in.
>>
>>76944554
I actually enjoy Lunars in exwod, I like how the kaiju method is easily obtainable, I like how they interact with other splats due to how they come into being, I like how you can make a Lunar for anything you might want to do, and all you need to not suck in combat is to just grab a Dex excellency.
>>
>>76948964
>I like how they interact with other splats due to how they come into being
What is this interaction? I wrote off ExWoD as a joke when it came out but I'm curious now.
Also, how is their coming into being different?
>>
>>76948274
Have you got a more recent preview then? That's not in the one that's been posted here.
>>
>>76948997
Lunars are born from survivors, so they can exalt during attacks from other supernaturals, but also from those who have more lasting contact such as ghouls, technocrat workers, people with changeling heritage, out of all the exalt types they're the most likely to actually have some level of real knowledge about the supernatural world. Plus the obvious connection they have to woof stuff. They certainly have more leeway than Solars, who are almost required to exalt during their first contact with anything magical. Siddies are billed as the guys who know stuff, but Lunars can start with real experience.
>>
>>76949335
Do the woofs violently sperg out at the Lunars like they did to everyone else they were supposed to be allied with?
>>
>>76948679
>Not enough to redeem Holden of defending a sexpest
Personally his endorsement of violently attacking people in public who have opinions he doesn't like is far more concerning.
>>
>>76949413
They can certainly try, but a woof will face a severe uphill battle fighting a Lunar, especially one specced for combat. If the Lunar has chosen to make himself a murder machine, he could wipe out whole packs without much trouble. He could tie two Crinos together by the tail and whip them around like nunchucks. If a woof meets a Lunar in the umbra however, they would practically fall to their knees in awe, because special kinds of spirits are drawn to them, and their silver markings start to show, and to a woof the power a Lunar gives off in the umbra feels more like a god than anything else.
>>
>>76949468
A properly specced Crinos can dumpster an optimised Lunar.
>>
I WILL take over the national park

I WILL yiff in the bushes

I WILL shit in the same place luna and gaia did 100,000 years ago


AND THERE'S NOT A GOD DAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. LUNARS RISE UP
>>
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>>76949645
You will kneel before the Beastman Moon Touched Solar Dawn with a Yasal Crystal(Blood Ape), Divine Heritage, Divine Mantle based on Ahlat and a huge penis.
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>>76949556
I doubt that very much.
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>>76949692
Have you seen some of the shit Werewolves can do?
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>>76949645
The Litany says The Veil Shall Not Be Lifted. Simple as.
>b-but I was chosen by Luna!
The Kami say that about Gaia, and we fuck them up anyway.
>>
>>76949698
Have you seen what Lunars can do in exwod? All attacks in rage mode deal agg damage, +9 Dex/+6 Str in rage mode with exellencies, heals 2 bashing/1 lethal damage per turn, able to soak any kind of damage with just Stamina, 1's do not subtract successes from Str, Dex and Sta rolls of any kind, Initiative bonus in the 90's, doubled extra successes to damage, the ability to use your full dice pool for defense with no extra action penalties, and that's just the tip of the scene-length/free effect iceberg, when you get into one-off powers you get perfect defense, increased difficulty on enemy soak rolls, multiple attacks with no extra action penalties, Lunars in exalted kind of suck but in exwod they're done very well.
>>
>>76949800
Yeah, and a Garou can STILL fuck them over. You don't even want to know want an Ananasi can do.
>>
>>76949837
By all means, enlighten me. Because that's just what Lunars have in their native charms, depending on how much you want to push "optimized" that mean mean including Shih martial arts, Do, and sorcery.
>>
>>76949837
Garou have difficulty getting dice pools much above 10. It really doesn't matter how much scary stuff their gifts can do on impact if they can't actually land a hit. How can a Garou compete with an attack pool of 19 coming at them or a dodge pool of 19 that ignores multiple action penalties?
>>
>>76950120
Don't forget that on the defense, Lunars can get double 10s and no success reduction on 1s to stamina rolls, which includes Soak, on top of absolutely abominable soak pools - I managed to get a soak pool of 15 with complete ease, and I didn't even optimise for it.
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>>76948713
>hehe mechanical hands
>I am a spooky woman who always wears armor and 18 arms
>I am a sea monster
>I am angry about the (((japanese))) and like to be femdommed by my daughter-wives
Yawn.

>>76948929
Well that explains a lot, because while I've never met a group that's been opposed to the idea I'm one of those folks who got into the game from Infernals. Even though I've played plenty of other stuff.
>>
>>76950247
>I am angry about the (((japanese))) and like to be femdommed by my daughter-wives
Please elaborate
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>>76950247
>hehe i am 999997 spheres and get butthurt about hierarchies
>hehe i am le big desert
>hehe im a big wind don't flute me or i'll cry
>hehe i am so vast and incomprehensible just like lovecraft
Boring.
>>
How would go about to retool Presence so it’s not completely useless ?
>>
What kind of sport is the most popular throughout Creation ?
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>This thread

>>76950487
The national sport of not dying during one of the many upheavals that hit Creation like a truck, probably
>>
Something I never understood; Solars and Lunars are seen as Anathema, but they clearly bear the marks of the Unconquered Sun and Luna, the King and Queen of Heaven. Lunars, I can understand, they had bad run-ins with the Fae and the Immaculate could argue they’re corrupted by the Wyld, but the Solars ?
>>
>>76950487
For Solars, specifically, I'd like to see effects that let Solars use their own Intimacies when persuading others. Like, being so passionate about some ideal that others are temporarily moved to believe in and act in accordance with said ideal without actual Instill action being required. Treating people's pre-existing Intimacies as stronger than they actually are seems Solar-appropriate, too.
>>
>>76951306
Meant for >>76950322, sorry.
>>
>>76951284
the typical line sold by the Wyld Hunt is "they're possessed by demons that stole the power of the incarna". For those that dig a bit deeper, it's not actually hidden; Solars and Lunars are explicitly stated to be exalted, but with that humans literally can't handle the power of the incarna, and so it degrades their minds and makes them incredibly dangerous. The "demons" excuse is something that's given to lay people who wouldn't be able to understand why it's important to still eliminate the anathema. Past that, "Anathema" is a term that isn't specifically a spiritual physiology, but rather a term specific to a being that will naturally disrupt the natural order the Immaculate Philosophy espouses.

As an aside, Luna is not the "queen" of heaven. Heaven doesn't have a queen. Luna is just in the same class of being as the king, as are the maidens.
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>>76951284
Both of them are treated as thieves who stole their power from their patrons and their patrons can't actually affect creation. Not that they would at this point, they're too busy with their crack x-box to bother.
>>
>>76951284
the immaculates claim the sun and moon are just large spirrits and like with all other spirits mortals should never deal with them or worship them, only dragonblooded may do so to keep them in their place, meanwhile the dragonblooded worship immaculate dragons as the ultimate spiritual presences in the world

solar and lunar exaltations are said to be demons who are merely pretending to have ties to he incarna, but that isnt their big sin, the real problem is they go entirely counter to the religious world view where the dragonblooded are spiritually supreme and close to achieving full enlightenment and rejoining the dragons instead of reincarnating as a human, while anathema are the forces which most directly corrupt and oppose that holyp rocess
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>>76949424
Old devs or new devs, I'd say the only relevant thing is their crunch chops and their work flow.
>>
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Creation is canonically doomed.
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>>76950322

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wkfPuphnrD6iDL6dSvjp8fdkyWCxFxYMPe5AxA_Lgcc/edit#
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>>76950247
>I am angry about the (((japanese))) and like to be femdommed by my daughter-wives
That's kind of based
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>>76951738
Which Holden was shit at in 3e and good at in ExWoD.
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>>76948274
Good to hear
>>76949645
Based
>>
>>76951567
>the immaculates claim the sun and moon are just large spirrits and like with all other spirits
Wrong. Immaculates literally build shrines to the Incarnae because they know they're a big deal. They may not know why they're a big deal, but in every Immaculate Shrine there is always an area dedicated to them. Sid's knew if they fucked with Incarnae worship the IO would eventually catch hell for it, so they built it right into the practice.
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>>76951284
The sun and the moon are irrelevant to some random peasant thinking about muh crops and muh communist dragons.
>>
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Why haven't we gotten an Exalted video game yet? Don't tell me it's impossible to do an Exalted game because people have different ideas of what Exalted is, they made a fucking Vampire the Masquerade game that was bugged to shit and everyone loved it.
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>>76955240
while they acknowledge all the gods as existing, that doesn't mean they want them independently worshipped beyond what their religious quotas, which is the point
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>>76952090
Thats only because they refuse to hire non-shit writers who can make a good system. Of course your world is doomed when you're letting fanboys write you.
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>>76955260
It's very fortunate that the gods are technically forbidden from interacting with creation directly or the entire system would have issues. Though the entire universe would have had a very different first age with the gods being active micromanagers.
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>>76955304
They're in the "always gets worshipped" section is the thing. They don't get specific days to be worshipped like small time God's, they're always gettin' that prayer juice.
>>
>>76955334
>>76955240
Do you have a quote for this? All I remember is that they are strongly aniconic and make shrines about the dragons and don't let any gods in.
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>>76955323
They aren't forbidden from interacting with creation directly. In fact, they were made for interacting with creation directly.
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>>76955383
I don't have a page number, no. Probably in the DB books in 1E and/or 2E however.
>>
>>76955412
I doubt it. But at least I respect you for not saying 3rd edition.
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>>76955403
The sun and moon aren't Sol and Luna. They're attached to each other but they aren't the same thing.
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>>76955418
Okay... But the... What?

The gods aren't forbidden from interacting with creation, whether or not the UCS is his battle station or not.
>>
>>76955450
That's what the creation ruling mandate was about. They do in the current age but it's illegal. Were it the first age what alhat is doing would have gotten him executed. It's why Sol or Luna hasn't just gone "obey me mortals and follow my mandates"

What dragon Blooded and the immaculate order have done is basically the closest thing to how things are supposed to work.
>>
The Five Maidens, Unconquered Sun and Luna would not give a single shit about not being worshipped because they get a tithe of Ambrosia from everyone else.
>>
>>76955517
No, gods are constantly meddling in everything. The real reason they are useless is the games of divinity, so the strongest gods are basically absent while the lower ones are the ones shitting everything up.
>>
>>76955540
That a symptom of the fallen age and the broken celestial hierarchy. Which is partially why the sidereal had to create the Immaculate Order to make sure that the gods did their job.
>>
>>76955517
>It's why Sol or Luna hasn't just gone "obey me mortals and follow my mandates"
They haven't done that because they're too busy playing Games of Divinity, and probably don't care all that much anyways. Sol's the one who makes the rules. There's absolutely nothing stopping him from stepping in and taking charge if he feels the need.
>>
>>76955597
There is the creation ruling mandate.
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>>76955613
>an impediment to conky in any way
>>
>>76955283
I think it would have to be something like a warriors game to give a feel for exalted powerlevels or maybe a grand strategy game like crusader kings, which could happen if paradox wants to.
>>
>>76955613
Which was issued by the Unconquered Sun, is entirely based on the authority of the Unconquered Sun, and could be changed by the Unconquered Sun. It's not a democracy, he's the king and he does what he wants.
>>
>>76955693
>>76955729
There's a huge implication that the creation ruling mandate isn't something he can actually go against. Due to the fact that he created it and wove it into creation itself.
>>
>>76955764
Where, exactly, do you see such an implication?
>>
>>76955764
more like he doesn't want to because he was tricked into snorting crack
>>
>>76955412
1e DB mentions that worship of the UCS is thought to be dead, and it's particularly disliked because it's tied to Solars and Slave revolts, 2e core mentions that all the UCS's temples where pulled down and worship banned and 3e mentions that the UCS is essentially unknown in the modern age.

1e DB mentions that immaculate temples have shrines for local gods, but doesn't mention the incarnae. The Incarnae tax prayer from all other members of the celestial beuracracy anyway, and UCS is famously austere in his use of prayer juice, so it's not like the incarna are suffering.
>>
>>76955517
>It's why Sol or Luna hasn't just gone "obey me mortals and follow my mandates"
Well, to be frank, Conky is too much of a boyscout to ever think about doing that anyway
>>
>>76955784
Rolls of divinity 1e if I remember correctly. I'd have to look it up again.

>>76955788
Anon, if luna and the maidens can still do shit while playing the games, Sol being the weakest to the games would completely go up against his image.
>>
>>76955828
luna is the only one who does much, and that's with the help of her nature, all the rest do basically nothing
>>
I'm surprised more gods don't absolutely fucking hate the incarnae and want to depose them completely.
>>
>>76955872
given how stupid that would be, i guess you're right
>>
>>76955842
That's wrong though. The maidens actively control their collective bureau.
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>>76955890
passively at best, and conky does shit on that minimal level too
>>
>>76955883
>let 90% of creation be destroyed so they can play the magical xbox
>Asserted flat out in 1e that the world is fucked

Yeah why would gods care about that at all retard
>>
>>76955788
Conky is always giving that speeach to the Zeniths upon their Exaltation, so he's always had a minimum of thought process not dedicated to the Games. And 3e does imply he starting to get out of it somewhat, since it is mentioned he's turning his attention back towards Creation

>>76955816
Does the Realm even know about Yu-Shan ? If yes, how can they know about it and not know about the guy all the gods in Yu-Shan answer to ?
>>
>>76955905
the only reason they would rise up is so they could then play the xbox instead, they don't give a shit about anything beyond their narrow purview
>>
>>76955903
No, actively. They still dictate orders, they still take to their exalted on a constant basis. They are the most hands on of the incarnae.
>>
>>76955920
the *realm*? yes

the average DB? fuck no

realm peasants? hahahaha

>>76955925
i call that passive, but if you call it active then fine, conky is active too by the same logic
>>
>>76955921
not how gods worked in any edition
>>
>>76955948
you're right, they're also concerned with the corruptions to their purview for the sake of swindling more quintessence

oh wait, that's the same thing
>>
>>76955828
I assume you mean Games of Divinity. It seems to just talk about the desire to avoid conflict between gods and mortals leading to an arrangement where gods avoided "entanglements in the mortal world". I don't think 1E implied that there was anything metaphysically significant or supernatural about Solars' right to rule - it was just the UCS' decree. IIRC 2E was the edition that made Creation-Ruling Mandate into something actually woven into the fabric of the world. I could remember wrong, though. Regardless, I don't see any implication of the UCS being unable to change or revoke the mandate granted by himself.
>>
>>76955940
No. Passive is doing nothing but stay in the games of divinity but the maidens are still seen and interacted with in their own bureau. The corruption isn't as much as other bureaus as a result.
>>
>>76956004
conky also interacts with the world and his subordinates
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>>76956017
No he doesn't. He doesn't even speak to exalts in person he just leaves them a recording.
>>
>>76955872
Some probably do, but the Incarnae are the most powerful of gods, and gods next in power are generally ones who're doing just fine for themselves and have little reason to change the current state of things.
>>
>>76956002
Remember that 3e is the edition where the unconquered sun can't stop himself for some retarded reason.
That's why even without wanting to he keeps exalting solars or if he dies he will keep doing it.
>>
>>76956044
lmao, prove that the maidens don't speak through recordings

nah, he speaks to them in person

the maidens are the real reason the setting is so fucked by the way, they share pretty much 50:50 responsibility with the ebon dragon
>>
>>76943144
Why does shirtless horseman make me horny
>>
>>76955964
Gods are people. They don't share the same personality. Some of them wholeheartedly embrace the opportunities for corruption the Age of Sorrows offers them. Some still try to do their jobs. Some used to give a shit but find it hard to do so anymore when no one else seems to.
>>
>>76956076
and as a collective they are completely useless
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>>76956049
That's stupid as fuck. Why did the devs even bother with that as the explanation when, "it's an automatic process" is much simpler and nuanced.

>>76956058
Uh, Just read 1e and 2e sidereals which states that they are the most hands on of all the incarnae. I'm sure it'll be the same as the last editions.
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>>76956084
>I have only read the 1d4chan page: The Post
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>>76956113
nice argument lmao
>>
>>76956071
His sheer animal charisma
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>>76956084
Well, yes. The Celestial Bureaucracy is completely useless, because it has no real leadership and no oversight. Gods aren't useless because they're all horrible people, they're useless because they're part of a badly mismanaged organization.
>>
>>76956102
Because MUH CHOSEN!!!
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>>76956144
it's both actually, they are largely terrible people too
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>>76956071
>Solar
>Why does he make me horny
Really nigger?
>>
>>76943144
>Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/.
Best joke in these threads.
>>
>>76956156
Are you fucking kidding me please tell me that's not why they changed it? Those fucking retards.
>>
>>76956177
that's a solar? really? some naked edgelord?
wow, definitely, most assuredly killed by a mage
doesn't matter how high essence
>>
>>76956158
They're not any worse than humans. They're not better than humans, either. They're currently in a situation where there's no reward for hard, honest work and no punishment for shameless corruption, and consequently those who embrace corruption tend to do better than those who work hard and honestly. This state of affairs incentivizes corruption, discourages honesty and makes it hard for even decent individuals to care. After all, even if they do their jobs, it won't matter when others don't.
>>
>>76956202
That mage will be seduced the moment they lay eyes on him
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>>76956209
i bet you're a government employee and a hero in your own head
>>
>>76956209
A lot of them are worse, gods are much more selfish then humans are.
>>
>>76956202
>Shining caste mark
>that's a solar?
Your brain on mage
>>
>>76956235
That'd be wrong on both counts. It's also a bizarre tangent with very little to do with anything said previously ITT. In addition, if saying that someone's neither better nor worse than humans equals some kind of a delusion of heroism to you, you should really re-think your standards for heroism.
>>
>>76955283
>Why haven't we gotten an Exalted video game yet
Because only WoD is allowed to get video games and for whatever reason they keep shying away from re-establishing that Exalted is WoD's prehistory.
>>
>>76956347
i can't tell if you're actually this autistic or only pretending
>>
>>76956235
i bet you hate all figures of authority that aren't you or subservient to you, including your dad who still beats you to this do.
>>
>>76956409
>to this do.
>>
>>76956190
It is the truth.
Just because they wanted the gods to literally chose the Exalted.
And it created plot holes patched with "the UC Can't stop exalting people even if he wanted".
>>
>>76956440
So the UCS chose to Exalt the serial killer imposter guy?
>>
>>76956440
>>76956485
It's so weird how the devs constantly belittle people for having 'brainspiders' and 'fitting things in neat boxes' yet they hamstring themselves in numerous ways to make sure Chosen means literally chosen by the gods rather than chosen by the Exaltation.
>>
>>76956485
Yes. Previously he was merely Exalted according to the standards set by the UCS. Is there a meaningful difference, here? That's not the problem with the change. Problem is that Incarnae actively choosing their Exalts but being unable to stop choosing, and also they'll keep on choosing even if they die, is both nonsensical and kind of pointless.
>>
>>76956219

Gee if only mages had some sort of magic that wards one's mind against hostile magics...

Oh wait.
>>
>>76956547
There are no perfects in Mage the Ascension. That's why it's a better game than Exalted.
>>
>>76955717
There was a dragon blooded mod for ck2.
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>>76956560
As a game, Ascension is a mess. At least, awakening has a better mechanics.
>>
>>76956563
Yeah I know but I'm waiting for solars to be added.
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>>76955890
The Maidens are nominally the ultimate authority in the Bureau of Destiny, the same way that Luna is in charge of the Bureau of Nature, and the Unconquered Sun is the head of the Bureau of Heaven. In practice, none have of the Incarnae have actually involved themselves in the management of the Bureaus that they are in supposedly the highest authorities of, leaving the running of those Bureaus to their Directors, in the case of Heaven and Nature, or the heads of the Devisions in the case of Destiny, since before the Usurpation. This has lead to the current state of affairs, where Yu Shan is basically ruled jointly by Ryzala and Carjack, after they colluded to have all the other Bureaus defanged and crippled, or led by gods whose strings they pull.
>>
>>76956544
They're chosing, but they're not actively choosing. The devs likened it to falling in love - you can't simply choose not to fall in love. Of course, by this analogy, Exalts are chosen the same way OP choses to be gay - because we all know being gay is a choice.

Vance chose to do it this way because, like was said, being chosen by your divine patron is percieved as being more thematic than being chosen by some random shard.

I don't know why they didn't just fall back on several millenia of Religious doctrine and go "UCS choses, and he choses people like Havish for ineffable reasons".
>>
>>76956828
To be fair the Maidens love smiling enigmatically and implying they're doing exactly what they are pre-ordained to be doing.
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>>76956547
Seducing someone isn't hostile magic, dumbass. I'm not talking using CBT.
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>>76956939
CBT isn't magic either.
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>>76956828
That isn't true at all. I mean sure Ryzala and Carjack have collectively the most pull in Yu-Shan due to incarnae inaction. However, the maidens still direct the bureau of fate and they still have objectives that they tell sidereals to do, sometimes personally. They don't deal with the day to day but they are way more attentive to their bureau than the other incarnae who usually don't lift a hand at all. you really should read sidereals 1e is better then 2e with the nuance but they're both mostly the same.
>>
>>76956866
As it is, I like the idea that Havesh was Chosen by UCS for his courage and ruthlessness in spite of his character flaws, as opposed to a Shard working on an inscrutable algorithm chose Havesh by accident.

The former adds moral ambiguity to both Solars and Sol himself, the latter just makes Exaltations come off as malfunctioning.
>>
What could a wheelchair bound solar look like

>>76952397
>>76956111
>>76955761
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>>76956989
Like Nazar or a sorcerer. They could heal their issues with medicine or they could learn sorcery and magic to cast spells to negate that problem.
>>
>>76956666
Awakening's mechanics are boring, however. No one gives a shit about it other than davefags.
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>>76957017
No they are 100% a martial/fighter they have two blades they dual wield
>>
>>76957030
They also use the blades as stilts.
>>
>>76957030
Then without an artifact he's fucked.

>>76956972
It's not an accident. Those exaltations are programed perfectly. He fit it to a tee.

>>76957025
Awakenings problems are the withstand is too easy to ignore and paradox isn't the issue it's supposed to be. Ascension is a mess where each dot does entirely more than it should be.
>>
>>76956989
A chump. There's medicine charms to heal (and possibly regrow) legs, there's artifact limbs that work better than the original, there's sorcerous workings you can do - there's no real reason to remain limbless in the long term.

That said, none of these things are instant, and we've had solars in our game who've spend a long time with non-functional limbs - but it's more comparable to a mortal having to wait on a broken limb to heal than it is to being permanently disabled.
>>
>>76956560
Exalted Perfects aren't even as perfect as the fags ITTs imply
>>
Since ExWoD is in the OP, how do people feel about the following idea for connecting the Exalted and WoD settings: Exalted isn't mythic history of WoD, instead WoD was created in the Three Spheres Cataclysm. Contrary to common belief, the spheres were not destroyed, but folded away from Creation along with what they encompass. Concepts such as firearms and computers were locked away with them, and a good physical chunk of Creation was included as well. Some things that weren't part of the spheres got caught in as well, such as the exaltations in ExWoD and a part of Gaia that became Gaia (WoD) as the cut-off piece of Creation restructured itself according to the principles it had to work with. The spheres themselves, as the major cosmic forces of this reality, became the Triat.

Not really useful for much in an actual game since absolutely no one in either setting knows about this. The primordial that became SWLiHN might've had a plan but she also lobotomized herself in the process. I'd imagine that players that came to play ExWoD would be unamused if the setting just unraveled on them and they found themselves in Creation instead of WoD Earth.
>>
>>76956972
The "I chose this serial killer because his courage and ruthlessness" is fucking retarded for Sol and makes no sense that he'd personally choose that. That's a Lunar Exaltation, not a Solar Exaltation, just ruins the themes of the Unconquered Sun for no reason than ad-hoc justification.

However, if the shard is doing the choosing and they shards are imperfect, this makes total sense and doesn't needlessly introduce a weird trait of the Sun that is not reflected anywhere whilst still allowing for otherwise outlier actors get Exalted. People get too obsessed with capital C chosen anyway, not like it matters if they HAVE to chose now.
>>
>>76956144
Oh, there’s oversight. They’re called Auditors and Censors. They are supposed to be appointed by the UCS but he couldn’t be arsed to do it himself, so Ryzala got to do it instead. Hence why all the current ones are part of the problem.
>>
>>76957072
>firearms is locked away
No? Are you retarded. Cannons exist in Exalted, Bullet Bows exist in Exalted. The idea of putting a bullet inside a Firewand is not illegal nor against metaphysics. Stupid child.
>>
>>76957056
>withstand is too easy to ignore
On a whim? Without prep? At 4/5 dots? It's trickier than you think. A Gnosis 6 master can potentially ES Unmake you on the spot, sure, but it's not a guarantee.
>paradox isn't the issue it's supposed to be
Paradox in Awakening isn't supposed to be like Paradox in Ascension. One is a hard slap, the other is contamination.
>>
>>76957076
"I chose this serial killer because he's got the potential to become a truly great killer" makes perfect sense for Sol, however. Solars should be chosen for greatness or at least potential for it. Skill and will should be important qualities, and Havesh is good at what he does.
>>
>>76957147
I confess I last actually played Exalted in 2E, and while there were gun and cannon like things such as prayer pieces and lightning ballistas, there was a striking absence of gunpowder. Mundane gunpowder, at least. I think there was some shit you could only get from the Wyld.
>>
>>76957169
I just feel that without adding partial supernatural resistance it's just a little too easy. No one has 4-5 dots in every trait. That someone's supernatural resistance doesn't apply makes it easy for a new player to kill a veteran mage with a good rote. This only so long as the elder has no prime or arcana related to the attacker. I think my biggest issue is that supernatural trait doesn't apply at all. A contested roll that applies it is preferable to a flat target number that could be as low as 1.
Paradox should at least creep up faster then it does. But we can continue in the WoD thread over here about if you want to talk about it more.
>>
>>76957254
It's only modern guns that are locked out. Mostly for ascetic reasons. An exalt can use a firewand like a machine gun with the right charms.
>>
>>76957223
>"I chose this serial killer because he's got the potential to become a truly great killer" makes perfect sense for Sol, however.
This makes no sense because the Unconquered Sun even in 3e doesn't chose blackguards or dickheads, however. It mischaracterises him. It's more like rather than make actual traits about him grey, they introduce a contradictory trait that isn't hinted at anywhere and you retroactively have to be ok with it.
>>
>>76957302
Either way. What the exact concepts that got locked away is besides the point.
>>
>>76957367
He had no problem in 1e or 2e I don't know why he has an issue now.
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>>76957367
Unconquered Sun in both 1E and 2e was someone whose standards Havesh fit. Even with independent Exaltations, UCS was the one who determined what kinds of people those Exaltations would look for. Havesh was always well and truly his Chosen. This isn't a mischaracterization. Rather anything that portrays the UCS as someone who would never choose Havesh is a mischaracterization. If there are no dickhead Solars in 3E, then it's the first edition to go that route. Both of the previous editions had some real assholes among the Sun's Chosen.
>>
>>76957426
Lunars is a shitload of revisionism to the point of making it seem like solars never even had the great curse.
>>
>>76957147
>>76957254
Most "guns"/"cannons" in exalted are more akin to flame-throwers. Firedust shoots out a gush of flame, but lacks the explosive force to propel objects. Firedust /can/ combust (at least in 2e) but only when there's a sufficient critical mass - which limits it to harbour cannons; artillary pieces two big to really be mounted on ships. I think enough firedust for one harbour cannon shot was resources 4 or 5.

2e also had prayer pieces, which where more similar to guns and (iirc) functioned like a railgun - a series of tiny shrines on the inside of the barrel attracted a specially prepared piece of metal towards them, before repelling it, causing it to accelearate as it travelled through the barrel.
>>
>>76957464
>Lunars are different now! That means Solars were never bad!
Come on anon, that's a weak-ass argument.
>>
>>76957426
In 2E he didn't choose Solars directly, the Exaltations did. Havesh is skilled at what he does, so he was Exalted. I dunno what he was doing in 1E though.
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>>76957464
I'm not sure why Lunars are relevant to what I said.
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>>76957426
in 2e the Unconquered Sun wasn't doing the choosing and he was a fucking virtue bot who wouldn't have personally chosen those people anyway.

In 1e, it's more ambiguous but it's doubtful the Unconquered Sun would look kindly on a serial killer.
>>
>>76957484
Anon, as far as lunars go. Every solar was a loving mate and no one was poorly treated.

>>76957536
My point was that the UCS as of current canon, would never exalt an asshole even by mistake. I just think it was a mistake the way they've presented the entire situation. The lunars book makes solars unaffable good guys or they were assholes and they were so good at socal charms that lunars never realized how bad they were.
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>>76957528
>In 2E he didn't choose Solars directly, the Exaltations did.
Well, yes. That's why I mentioned independent Exaltations in my post. UCS is still the one who "programmed" those Exaltations. They work as he decided they should work. They seek out the qualities he determined his Chosen should have.

>Havesh is skilled at what he does, so he was Exalted.
Completely ignoring moral considerations when handing out power is still a conscious, intentional decision on the UCS' part, and it still says something about him. Also Havesh wasn't a skilled assassin before his Exaltation. He Exalted when performing his first hired kill. I think his current skills were mostly gained post-Exaltation.
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>>76957528
Havesh was in the middle of trying to murder a middle-aged varangian artisan. Emphasis on “trying”, the man was putting up a surprisingly good fight, indeed Havesh was actually in danger of losing. Truly worthy of a Solar Exaltation.
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>>76957076
Havesh is a talented killer and good at what he does. Sol apparently valued that more than his niceness.
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>>76958850
Makes me think Sol is a retard with no morals. Doesn't make him numinous or ineffable, just makes him a spastic.
>>
UCS makes no distinction between good at something and good,morally speaking. If you wish to master something you MUST be a good person on the inside.
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>>76957663
He Exalted after murdering his way through the ensuing fallout regardless. If he’d simply given up and went to jail he’d probably be an Infernal.

As it is, while he botched the high dive, he punched out the judges, stole the trophy, and outran the outraged mob afterwards. That’s what Exalted him.
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>>76958891
Sol was always morally ambiguous. He’s basically a Lucifer figure who managed to win. We don’t know what motivated him to rebel: he might not have cared about humanity beyond the fact that they were never under the Geas. He could have simply been someone who chafed at the Primordials and wanted to be his own master. We don’t know.

What we do know is that there are Solars who are excellent and competent while being vicious even before the Great Curse gets involved. Sol likely values excellence over ethics, even if the latter also plays a role in selection.
>>
>>76958910
He Exalted while trying to kill his mark. He fought guards who happened on the scene afterwards, when he was already an Exalt.
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>>76958999
We also know that in his 1e interpretation, he was much closer to Zeus than many other god figures in history, except he just wasn't constantly boning down mortals all over the place. It was 2e that made him the Big Good that solved all the universe's problems, and even then it was inconsistent on that front.
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>>76959032
I must have misremembered, I thought he only Exalted after he was cornered.
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>>76959037
I really do see him as Lucifer but successful. Instead of being cast as a self-obsessed rebel who was punished by his makers, he’s a bold revolutionary who cast down divine tyrants and uplifted humanity.

It’s all just framing.
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>>76959037
I prefer UCS's 2e incarnation.
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>>76960393
Yeah, it's interesting to see his Superman-esque goodness clash with the greyness of the world around him. And the idea that if he acts anything but perfect, he temporarily loses part of his powers, which is an cool weakness from a narrative standpoint. He's like a xianxia hero who already completed his adventure.
>>
>>76960393
>>76960549
And it sells the idea that Solars very much are Creation's best hope, in spite of everything, because ultimately their creation was ana ct done through pure benevolence, so there's purpose to their battle against the Realm. The fallen heroes of old must repent for the consequences of their past sins to reain their old glory.
>>
>wtf why did Sol exalt this serial killer?
He's not virtuous. What's virtuous about usurping Creation and then letting it go to shit?
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>>76956989
Exaltion's generally do not stick to people with problems like that. They look for hearty and hale hosts. So there wouldn't be an Exalt in a wheelchair in the first place, unless they just got their ass handed to them by a Brawlchad and didn't get fixed up yet.
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>>76957065
Solar ones are. At least, in previous editions. In 3E though everyone got their balls cut off and Exalt's are far weaker than they've ever been before. A 3E Solar is basically a previous editions DB, and those were considered so piss poor weak as to be literal stunt fodder at times.
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>>76957367
3E UCS is non-canon. The entire Exaltion process is non-canon in 3E. It's a shit lore change that fucks up the entire setting, and should be discarded as the trash it is.
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>>76960747
>Solar ones are. At least, in previous editions.
lul okay, go block a literal omnipotent
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>>76960767
Thats exactly what they do. Deal with it. Exalt's are designed to scale up to match a threat, the stronger the trouble is, the more bullshit they are capable of.
>>
>>76960829
dumbass
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>>76960747
DBs are heroes too!!!
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>>76955729
It was issued because the Incarnate didn't want to micromanage Creation any more. You know, the entire reason for the Primordial War. It would be like you hiring a neighborhood kid to go mow your lawn while you went on to play vidya inside the house. Sure, you could come out and mow the lawn yourself, but that would defeat the purpose, so you don't do it unless the kid burns your lawn down.
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>>76956102
>That's stupid as fuck. Why did the devs even
That seems to sum up all my reactions to notable changes made in 3e.
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>>76960829
>blocks omnipotent
>invalidating omnipotence
Sorry, nothing in perfect defense mentions removal of omnipotence :^)
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>>76961190
Actually, yes it does. Defence always wins. Even against infinity. Even against infinity plus one. Sorry guys, you're on the wrong side of history.
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>>76961268
Nope, sorry, nothing says removal/erasure of something. It's just defense. Defending against an omnipotent/absolute implies it's not omnipotent/absolute. Thus it takes precedence. You are giving perfect defense an ability it doesn't have :^)
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>>76957367
>This makes no sense because the Unconquered Sun even in 3e doesn't chose blackguards or dickheads, however.
Lyta and Arianna would like to say hi.
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>>76960393
I don't, honestly. The Solars, hell, all the Exalts, are too morally ambiguous to assume perfect righteousness on part of the Incarnae.
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>>76961506
But when everyone on the internet want all RPGs to be litteraly 40K with edgyness and people being cynical dicks just because, it's nice to have a genuine hero character to pop up, and not just be a sacrificial lion.
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>>76961303
Nah, Integrity Protection Prana explicitly defends against that.
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>>76961057
I get some changes like dragon blooded having better chances of popping out dragon blooded babies if they hold it in but not changes like making pure blooded just a social feature.
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>>76961636
Nope, you can't say something isn't what it is, sorry
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>>76961672
That's what solars do.
Learn to live with it
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>>76962067
Cope solarkek
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>>76960767
>>76960891
>>76961303
>>76961672
>>76962122
We already established in previous threads that the Supernal gets buttfucked by thrusting Shinma cock who in turn can't act to stop Solaroids from messing with them. Why do you insist on sperging despite knowing that you will always, always lose?
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>>76962149
Cope solarkek
>>
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>>76961672
Anon, if you want to talk about your homebrew fanon headcanon houserule non-canonical unofficial alternate-universe alt-rule Exalts, please feel free. However, please understand that in the official games this entire subject is solved. You're under the assumption that the book wasn't thorough about this, which it surprisingly was! Exalted isn't like Mage the Awakening or Mage the Ascension when it comes to these subjects. This has been thought out. Shinma, Wyld Nobles, Primordials who are all able of throwing out omnipotent attacks are unable to trick the system here, since in the case of the Unstoppable vs Immovable, the object stays still. That includes "My special setting rewrites the part in the rulebook about this in a white room" or "My attack simply counts as a Perfect Defence!" and even includes the dreaded Zeal charm, which functionally by the rules was still unable to take away Perfect Defences.

This might be distressing for you to realise because in most games this is left to narrative fiat, but Exalted is very clear about this. I hope you're able to move on from this anon, because there's a lot more we can shitpost about in this general that's more pertinent to people's actual play. Or if you do really find it fun to talk about Mages versus Solars, maybe talk about tactics that'd actually work against them in good faith and with good education. Hope this has cleared things up for you.
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>>76962411
See >>76962122 and >>76962281
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>>76962411
I can actually break this down on why a 2e exalt would probably never lose but a 3e exalt might but this topic is stupid. I don't know why magefag keeps bringing up.
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>>76962715
Someone already broke down why Aberrant and Mage shits over Exalted some threads back. Not interested in a newcomer who thinks he knows what's what.
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>>76962411
The last time someone tried arguing Perfect Defenses, the Solar got thrown to another universe entirely - because archmages are taking the existing existence and turning it into something else. From the Solar's perspective this wouldn't have mattered (since his timeline is still going), but the resident queers just HAD to Perfect Defend against anything - which ended up deleting Creation - because they're no longer in Creation - they're in the brand new iteration of existence the archmage *accidentally* created. Oops.

Talk about good faith.
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>>76962818
Such blanket confidence and yet if I remember correctly those were flawed and though you could get through IPP.
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>>76962901
This is precisely why Mage wins. Retroactive whatever
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>>76962901
Honestly, I don't know why someone would make such a blanket statement. The supernal only affects earth and a spell powerful enough to do that would trigger enough paradox to make it hard to even use.
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>>76963030
>The supernal only affects earth and a spell powerful enough to do that would trigger enough paradox to make it hard to even use.
No, it literally affects existence as a whole - from beginning to end. Archmages are re-jiggering existence constantly. Although you never feel it - it's too cosmically "out there".
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>>76963030
What paradox? Archmages are worried about aponoia, not paradox
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>>76963117
They canonically can't affect the god machine which means they can't affect everything. They have their own part of reality which creation isn't part of.
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>>76963161
They canonically can. But consider just how ingrained the G-M is. There will always be a Moon (and thus Luna - the spirit/face of it) no matter what the Earth changes into. There will *always* be hidden occult infrastructure at play - hence the God-Machine. The thing has a vault of all conceivable Armageddons - and is *aligned* with the Seers. Not only is it not a proper entity, it's not going away anytime soon either. Presumably the Exarchs would back it up, as it's too useful in their Fallen vision.
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>>76963160
Uh. Two different mage fags. One argues about ascension the other argues about awakening. How the hell are people keeping their arguments coherent.

>>76963205
They can't and by rulings both luna and sol each count as rank 8 and 9 entities which makes them canonically stronger than any archmage.
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>>76963236
>They can't
They literally can. It is even suggested the God-Machine is the machination of an Alienated archmage. That alone is enough. (The God-Machine is an eight-dot Imperial effect - Dominions - self-aware infrastructure capable of manufacturing template designs and inscrutable planning).

>rank 8 and 9 entities which makes them canonically stronger than any archmage.
Not so. Consider that a Spirit 10 archmage is by *default* treated as the Ban to rank 8 spirits and under. Consider that there's a canon archmage planning on sacrificing the entirety of the Shadow for a "better" one - including rank 8 and up spirits.
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>>76963294
Yeah by slowly tampering with the world. This is a pointless exercise. The universes fundamentally don't work together and have no points of interaction other than a the fact that they both use D10s.
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>>76963370
The thing is, Exalted's Creation can be easily approximated in Chronicles as a previous, wondrous, extinct existence. An existence where things ran differently. You can't really justify anything from Mage without screeching in the process, because the physics of Exalted are on a hard-lock in areas. At best you can say they're from the Wyld, but that's like saying WoD is inside Changeling: The Lost.
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>>76963408
No, it can't. It's literally another universe with completely different physics. It doesn't work on any level. This is a stupid powerlevel tier argument. It's just as bad if not worse than those stupid deathmatch battles.
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>>76963457
>It's literally another universe with completely different physics. It doesn't work on any level.

After Supernal Imperium, the Phenomenal World
changes and its history, legends, cultures and peoples have
always been other than they were. Imperium imposes its
changes throughout time.
The Seeker’s new world refl ects her success but it isn’t
under her total control. It is in the nature of the Tellurian
to fi ll the gaps. If an archmage eradicates a nation, history
rewrites itself around its absence, including details beyond
her ken. When multiple Seekers change the universe, it
either accedes to the most powerful claim or crafts a compromise.
Seekers may return to the Supernal again and again
to correct the unintended consequences of Imperium.
Once understood, Imperium is a revelation that forever
changes a Seeker’s outlook on the universe. Before archmastery
she might have assumed that ultimate power lay embedded in
an objective secret history, that Atlantis’ ruins hid beneath the
waves in a defi nite location, aged grimoires always contained
the same spells, and the Exarchs seized power in the distant
past — not a present erased by their triumph. Everything might
be true, if the Invisible Masters permit it.

If an archmage truly wanted to turn WoD into Exalted - they can.
>>
>>76955283
Because no one ever heard about Exalted. Vampire is already extremely niche and it's orders of magnitude more popular.
>>
>>76963516
Damn.
>>
>>76963516
That's not how it works when the exalted universe doesn't have a higher existence. A world of platonic ideals isn't a thing exalted has. It has shinma. Like I said there's no point of interaction and this argument is stupid and flawed.
>>
>>76963580
Everything in Creation would be counted as Fallen/Phenomenal - including the Shinma. There's a single, perfect flame giving off the shadow of every instance of Shinma. That "higher existence" is just a set of singulars. So yes, *everything* in Exalted can be Imperium'd into existence.
>>
>>76963580
>That's not how it works when the exalted universe doesn't have a higher existence.
The Wod never feels the supernal either doofus
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>>76963644
No, it can't this stupid argument. You fundamentally cannot change how creation works. The shinma don't exist, their very nature is a quasi existence which can't be tampered with. The solars who work magic on a level that lets them alter reality themselves as they want still don't tap into a higher reality to it.
>>
>>76963673
We have how reality works in creation. This is just your head canon.
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>>76963706
Are you having a typing fit? There isn't some no.132432 existence that is off-limits to archmages. That's preposterous. If they want it to exist, they can make it exist. Kind of the point. You sound a bit distressed.
>>
>>76963706
>You fundamentally cannot change how creation works.

An archmage can turn the WoD into a perfect expy of Exalted. This implies they can also exist outside of its fundamental rules.
Is there a problem here, piss whiner?
>>
>>76963516
>>76963644
>>76963706
>>76963743
>>76963777
The archmage would likely put the Exalted 2.0 in his Chantry though, not the Phenomenal proper.
>>
>>76963743
Yes, there is. There's no symbols of platonic ideal that matches with exalted. This is literally just your head canon and it's stupid.
>>
>>76962901
>>76962996
You do realize retroactive effects are a thing in Exalted right? Like, pretty explicitly?

Anyway, raped by a Noble of Exalted who boosts every Exalt up to the level of a Treasure who proceed to shit celestial glory all over the the magefags face.
>>
>>76963876
The Archmage's Cintamani/Noumenon is literally their Symbol-self-to-be. You don't know how Imperium and ascension works. If they sealed their Omens (relating to making Exalted existent), it would expectedly exist.
>>
>>76963644
Didn't literally everyone tell you in a previous thread that the Shinma ARE the Supernal the last time you tried this bullshit? I distinctly recall that being a thing.
>>
>>76964002
The Shinma are about as Supernal as the Shadow is.
>>
>>76963999
No, the things in their lustrum is tied to their world and experiences. They can't just pull shit out of their ass. You have no idea how the setting works or archmasters. I'm literally rereading imperium. Any reality they remake has to still have the same or similar physics and exalted doesn't.
>>
>>76964035
Being a disingenuous skim-reader won't save you from the asshurt, buddy.
>>
>>76963644
>>76964002
From the archives the last time the magefag tried this shit

>[Exalted] Primordials, Shinma, and Constraints thread
>Shinma are the base premises necessary for existence.
>The Primordials made the world. The shinma are the concept of making.
>The book defines shinma as a very specific kind of concept. The shinma are ground rules.
>The shinma are a gnostic, experiential understanding of the fundamental nature of What Is (and, sometimes, of What Is Not.)
>In the original vision, if Primordials are words, then shinma are "basic language concepts like 'words reference things' and 'you look at words, not taste them.'"

>Magefag, what that mean is: Primordials are Supernal beings, Shinma are equal or above, you are a faggot.

>Poor magefag. His Supernal he thinks the origin of all things would be just a small part of Exalted cosmology.The Truth containing symbols of all there is is just a part of the Shinma, along with
>Existence, Identity, Action, and so forth.
>Existing, relying of their Identity as archmages, making Actions to affect the world, and thinking, in their arrogance, that they are above the basics that allow archmages' very being and activity in the first place. Sad.
>>
>>76964018
This is why someone who talks out of their ass needs to actually read what they're arguing against.

>>76964048
Says the person being a disingenuous skim-reader.
>>
>>76964035
>They can't just pull shit out of their ass. You have no idea how the setting works or archmasters.

No, they literally can - if they work for it. Again, kind of the point. An archmage can accomplish literally anything - their only limit is time and other archmages/powers that be.
>>
>>76964050
Nice try, but still no.

We're at the part now where you just type random whatever, hoping to drown out the loss.
>>
>>76964018
See >>76964050

You're screeching schizophrenia does not change the fact that your Supernal is literally baby's first pseudo-Platonism, which doesn't even come close to encompassing the Shinma. What Dave shits out isn't comparable to Jenna Moran's insanity in any way shape or form.

>>76964066
An archmage without Quintessence literally cannot perform Imperial Rites.
>>
>>76963973
Please leave Gluubulis out of this, they have more important things to care about than stupid powerlevel arguments. Like trying to figure out how to wish for snow without ruining everything forever. Or saving Christmas from being annihilated.
>>
>>76964087
>Nice try, but still no.
Please provide even one (1) thing from Mage that makes the Supernal any different from either the Primordials or Shinma.

>>76964092
Nobilis is one of the very few things that the magefags cannot counter. Helps that Jenna worked on Exalted's metaphysics too.
>>
>>76964088
>An archmage without Quintessence literally cannot perform Imperial Rites.

Yes... Hence "if they work for it". Skim-reader is right!

>What Dave shits ou-
Okay, I can see you're not going to be posting in good faith. If you're going to take this as an opportunity to shit on DaveB - I'm not going to allow it.
>>
>>76964087
Your headcanon doesn't work here.
>>
>>76964127
The Primordials and the Shinma can actually, y'know, be confronted and *killed*. This is explicit. You can do no such thing with the Supernal. The very act of violence (the thing you do in Exalted / fighting / beating up other Exalts) is a motherfucking Exarch (ascended archmage).

You're comparing two different ballparks.
>>
>>76964135
>Yes... Hence "if they work for it".
You mean "struggle to farm Quintessence otherwise they can't do shit". Here's a hint: there is no Quintessence in Exalted. Your precious archmages are powerless.

>Okay, I can see you're not going to be posting in good faith.
Fuck off back to your discord Dave
>>
>>76964169
>Here's a hint: there is no Quintessence in Exalted.
So you don't know what Quintessence is, or constitutes. Great.
>>
>>76964159
The shinma can't be confronted. More over the exalted universe and the mage one are fundamentally different. You can't time travel and you can't resurrect someone. These are incompatibilities which can't ever be altered.
>>
>>76964193
Wrong. The Shinma can outright be conceivably killed. This was talked about on the forums. You can do no such thing with the Supernal. How can you confront every instance of violence ever existing? You can't! You'd have to punch your own punch! Kick your own kick!

Incredulous.
>>
>>76964159
Taken from the archives yet again

>The Shinma define the fundamental axioms of creation. The Supernal Realm's perfect circles casting shadows on Plato's cave is adorably low level by comparison. The Shinma are a level of abstraction beyond that.

>Nirguna defines the fact that things exist, without Nirguna there would be no such thing as "existence". Niraka defines the concept that things can have a shape. Nirvishesha defines the fact that things are capable of having an identity, that a table is not the same thing as a chair. There are more, but you get the general idea.

>Now you might claim that sort of thing is part of the Supernal, in which case that means mages aren't special and Exalts can also mess around with the Supernal.

For one thing, Supernal beings can themselves be ousted and killed. This is explicit in the text and is how the Exarchs even made themselves dominant in the Supernal to begin with and is what they fear will happen to thrm if enough Ascensions happen. And two, the Shinma aren't things, they're the fundamental of existence. Killing a Primordial already fucks reality hard. Killing a Shinma is impossible because Nirguna is the reason you exist, Niraka is the reason why you have shape to act, etc.

>>76964188
You don't know how Exalted is different metaphysics work. Again, fuck off.
>>
>>76964212
It's another instance of:

"I am the Darkness itself!"
*battle ensues*
"NOOOOoooo.... how could I lose...."
*somehow darkness is still around*
*somehow the entire storyline isn't erased because darkness was itself a requirement for it to run its course*
>>
>>76964212
wow and you talk about other people skim reading. You can destroy those fundamental truths in the supernal. They can be destroyed much more easier than shinma can.
>>
man, i remember when people used to dump art in these threads. good times.
>>
>>76964226
Plato's cave isn't a perfect analogy when it has also been used to describe a frog in a well all the way over in China. Technically, there can't be anything above the Supernal - mathematically speaking. It's just a one.

Not sure what you're doing here.
>>
>>76964212
>The Shinma can outright be conceivably killed. This was talked about on the forums.
Neither Jenna nor any of the other devs have supported this. What they HAVE said is that if you want to go on a quest to punch Dharma in the metaphorical face to get a desired result you can. Doesn't mean that you can 'kill' it because that's a nonsense idea that is fundamentally impossible.

Meanwhile, Supernal concepts can fall and get imprisoned. How quaint.
>>
>>76964243
No. Once Ascended, the only way to dethrone a Supernal is to instigate another Ascension. The mass Ascension of the Celestial Ladder buttfucked the existential status quo. Shinma are easier to kill in comparison. A Solar entering the Supernal would step into the symbolic expression of himself, and render himself undone.
>>
>>76964257
That's how it works from the lesser lower-perspective of the Supernal sure. But to the Shinma, it may as well be irrelevant with how high above it they sit.
>>
>>76964276
>implying a Solar is not his own Supernal representation
>>
>>76964226
>>Nirguna defines the fact that things exist, without Nirguna there would be no such thing as "existence".

Already the Supernal. There are layers. There's a Symbol of Place. There'd be a Symbol of Existence. There's likely no Symbol more fundamental than Math (or the Symbol of Supernal).
>>
>>76964276
>the only way to dethrone a Supernal is to instigate another Ascension.
In Mage yes, and that's only difficult because of the Abyss and the inability to craft a new Celestial Ladder. This problem doesn't apply to Exalted.

>A Solar entering the Supernal would step into the symbolic expression of himself, and render himself undone.
They Perfect Defense it away and fuck the General in the ass, Dave. That's what really hsppens.
>>
>>76964287
Well, no, the upper echelons of Supernal description would be something more along the lines of Nirguna. You're just labelling significance.
>>
Oh, wow. it's like 2015 wodg in here. 'Great but we are talking about something else' "MAGEMAGEMAGEMAGE hey does this thread seem like its dying to you". Or 2014 eclipse phase.
>>
>>76964316
> and that's only difficult because of the Abyss and the inability to craft a new Celestial Ladder.

Sealing Omens is still a thing with or without the Abyss.

The Celestial Ladder is a 5-dot Omen.

>They Perfect Defense it away and fuck the General in the ass
The General is the reason why defending against anything exists. The General IS that instance of any Solar using a Perfect Attack.
>>
>>76964302
The Primordials are already themselves Symbols in that same sense. The Shinma are still higher and more fundamental.

More to the point, Exalts can mess with both.

>>76964323
There are no "upper echelons" to Supernal significance because by your own logic, it is a one. It cannot go any higher. Meanwhile the Shinma can and do.
>>
>>76964294
There'd only be a single Symbol of Solar. There's no two Symbols of the same nature. Above the Supernal there'd have to be an all-encompassing one, or a zero.
>>
>>76964339
I want to talk about mage but I don't want to talk about it here. It sucks that all the mage fags came here. Didn't they have like a mage general for a few months or something.
>>
>>76964354
>Sealing Omens is still a thing with or without the Abyss.
Cool. Doesn't change the point made or what the book itself says.

>The General is the reason why defending against anything exists. The General IS that instance of any Solar using a Perfect Attack.
And it still gets fucked in the ass by Solaroid cock like Dharma does Dave. Because that's how Exalted function.
>>
>>76964355
No, the Primordials are literally Phenomenal. They're more like living worlds - which is already something you see in rank 6/7/8s - not Supernals. The Primordials are more like Shadow gods.
>>
>>76964354
No, he isn't. That's not what the exarches are at all and it's certainly possible to alter the fallen world enough to remove them from power. Which is why the seers still exist. In mage, the supernal and fallen world fall into a loop. What affects the fallen world affects the supernal and when the supernal is changed the fallen world responds. That's why the seers have to actively maintain how the world works. The moment enough control is removed from their grasp, they lose power and the world changes as a response.
>>
>>76964381
Magefags cannot sustain a general on their own because they have nothing to talk about; they're all powertripping faggots with galactic egos who don't play games. They need to parasitize off of other threads and discussions in order to survive.
>>
>>76964381
They managed to run off the vampire posters in wodg who made their own threads instead. Then they turned up there to shitpost. Or, the singular magefag did, anyway.
>>
>>76964390
I see you're just posting for the sake of posting. I honestly can't tell whether you even believe your own argument or not. Are you simply angry that I'm here?
>>
Theory: A Solar Twilight becomes a Mage and beats all other Mages forever.
>>
>>76964410
>No, he isn't. That's not what the exarches are at all
Read >>76963117
That's exactly how it is. As above, so below.
>>
>>76964402
The Primordials msnipulated and defined the very concepts and symbols you are using to jerk off the Supernal magefag >>76964050
>>76964226. They are, by definition, Supernal.
>>
>>76964421
Can you post actually evidence that the Supernal is superior to the Shinma or have you just decided to concede and seethe?

>>76964434
Based Twilightbro
>>
Why are we talking about supernal? Isn't the crossover for owod, not nwod?
>>
>>76964443
If they were Supernal, they wouldn't actually exist to the degree where they could be confronted and beaten. Ascension literally erases you from existence. You're now something that isn't there. The General is every instance of violence ever existing, but he's not Phenomenal.
>>
>>76964380
Yeah, exactly. And that's the Solar. What are you, stupid?
>>
>>76964465
Holden is working on a crossover for CofD. The magefag is desperately shitposting because he knows the Solaroids are coming to rape his mageboy-gash very soon.
>>
>>76964457
Well, for one, the Supernal already constitutes Nirguna's nature. It's just the Symbol of Shape/Form. Nirvishesha is Identity. Except Mage doesn't autistically give out weird names like this. It's just "Symbols".
>>
>>76964479
Well, as long as he's here instead of his origin point.
>>
>>76964479
Holden sounds more disgraced than Dave, I wouldn't hold on to that thought if I were you. Also need I remind you that Dave plays Exalted?
>>
>>76964467
>If they were Supernal, they wouldn't actually exist to the degree where they could be confronted and beaten.
They don't. Which is why the Exalted Host was created who can confront and kill things that cannot be confronted and killed. This is a very basic setting premise that you seem to be failing to understand.

Your Mage physics aren't the same limiter for Exalted.
>>
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>b-but we're totally s-stronger than the m-mages
>b-believe me
>>
>>76964488
From the perspective of the Supernal yes, it contains elements of Nirguna's nature. Because it defines it, just as it defines everything else that exists. And bitching about names is funny since Mage does the same thing in naming concepts "The Father" or "The Raptor" like a two year old.

>>76964527
It's actually explicit that time travel was removed because it used to be a thing but they didn't want the Yozis using it to undo the War and their loss.

Good job failing to understand the lore though
>>
>>76964416
>>76964412
That's unfortunate.

>>76964440
If that were the case you wouldn't have again the archmaster creating gardens to flood the abyss into the world. They'd just do it outright. The fallen world can change and push out the supernal symbols. if they couldn't then the seers wouldn't bother.
>>
>>76964514
...Primordials are just Shadow/Astral gods, I am sorry. You think a spirit is Supernal just because it embodies a concept/idea?
>>
>>76964467
No, they aren't. The exarches represent very specific notions of the world. Which aren't broad. They're powerful because they kicked others aren't. You don't even know the setting you shitpost about.
>>
>>76964506
Dave doesn't play games. The only thing Dave "does" is scream in his discord chat at people treating Mages like the garbage they are.
>>
>>76964558
Mages already bring time to timeless locations. See Duat. Exalted isn't special. If Creation tried to deny a Time Archmage, the Archmage would respond very, very brutally. Since lolatoms is a thing in Creation, time travel in it may just require Forces.
>>
>>76964586
You need to take a big breather and type properly. Please.
>>
>>76964560
Once again refer to >>76964443. The Primordials are Supernal just as the Exarchs are Supernal, if not moreso.

>>76964599
You mean the same Duat where the Judges would canonically rape the archmages to death if they set foot there and where Mummy magic doesn't function under the Supernal and so can't be negated? That Duat?
>>
>>76964589
Does his discord have any games? I'm kind of in the mage mood while I wait for exalted shit to pick up. I just don't want to interact with all the pretentiousness that goes in that echo chamber.
>>
>>76964589
>Dave doesn't play games.
But he tells us what he's currently playing... He's rather enthusiastic about it too. Are you sure you're not just holding a grudge against the man?
>>
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Killed by a solar
>>
>>76964616
You should actually spend more time reading mage lore instead of shitposting about it.
>>
>>76964599
Atoms don't exist in Exalted . As do most of our laws of physics. That's why the Shinma are a thing along with less significant spirits.

>>76964628
>Does his discord have any games?
Actual games and not just a disgraced former dev screeching into the void along with a host of sycophants? Because that's a hard no for the former.
>>
>>76964642
Dave's enthusiastic about a lot of things. He was enthusiastic about Beast and we all know how that turned out. He was enthusiastic about inserting his headcanon into the setting but got set off before he even got the chance. Literally everything posted from his discord is just him shitting himself over one thing or another, usually Mage-related.
>>
>>76964622
>He still disingenuously brings up lore with improper context
Okay shitposter. We're already nearing bump limit. This thread is mine. I won it. What do you want me to say, if you're not going to post respectfully and in good faith in regards to the setting?
>>
>>76964657
You know I'd be down on any WoD game but haven't been able to play for a while. With the covid situation I can't even pop in at a shop and see if anyone plays.
>>
>>76964657
>Atoms don't exist in Exalted .
But they may as well because of the autistic setting description. So Forces :^)
>>
>>76964700
I'm going to tell you to kill yourself Dave. You don't write anything anymore, your personal RPG idea is literal vaporware, and you waste your days shitting furiously on a discord server. Jenna Moran accomplished every single goal you had set out to do AND she did it better with a greater understanding of weird esoteric metaphysics than you could ever dream of.

Now fuck off. I need to go talk with Coriander Hasp about using a Flower Rite on Mage.
>>
Prime 7 'Instigate Solar Template'
Prime 7 'Remove Solar Template'
>>
>>76964689
I think Dave can be interesting sometimes but I don't think you need a million explanations for shit.

That said it's really sad mage fag doesn't even know his own setting let alone exalted's.
>>
>>76964730
Negated by Guarding Star Tactics and then raped by the Daystar.
>>
>>76964755
The fact that there are people like you on the internet who treat Dave like he's literally Satan will never not make me laugh.
>>
>>76964761
>falseflagging this hard after losing the argument
Perfect Defense'd
>>
>>76964769
An archmage only needs Forces 6 to create a Shinma-eating disease, solarkek.
>>76964789
No Motes, soz.
>>
>>76964788
Treating Dave like he's Satan is attaching too much importance to his name. I treat him more like a mouldy dog turd you find on the sidewalk. It's inherently disgusting to look at (and smell) but you simply walk over it or move to an adjacent sidewalk and continue on your day.

Your obsessive need to defend his name however really exposes you for being a massive white knight for his micropenis.
>>
>>76964755
>TFW I played a cuubo's miraculous wish engine game and actually didn't like it much but did it so I could play exalted with my group on a later day
>actually get super into it as it's dying out
Feels bad but it finally started to click too late.
>>
>>76964804
Nope. Perfect Defense'd
>>
>>76964813
Make the most of it anon. That's what Chuubo would want you to do.
>>
>>76964804
okay forces 6 can't do that. like flat out. Dynamics just makes a living spell.
>>
>We're already nearing bump limit. This thread is mine. I won it

Is this true malice? Does he g et some sort of fucking thrill doing this?
>>
>>76964855
A spell that continues to grow and adapt, yes.
>>
>>76964857
Look at any thread the magefag appears in when going through the archive. He gets a malicious vindictive glee on shitting on other people's threads.

The funny thing is he tried the same thing with a Xianxia thread and got blown out so hard he started spamming about the Chinese, but he was mostly ignored by that point. Dude is a psycho.
>>
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>>76964857
I do get a little tingling sensation in my pp sometimes...
>>
>>76964890
No. It adapts it doesn't grow. It can't increase it's potency or do anything more then it says.

God you don't even know simple things like this. What fuck is wrong with you.
>>
>>76964911
That's the gangrene eating your dick away from not washing the cheeto dust and grime off of yourself magefag. Here's hoping it kills you.
>>
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>>76964931
>It can't increase it's potency
>>
>>76964946
That's literally no where in the books.
>>
>>76964931
>What fuck is wrong with you.
He's a magefag. They quite literally don't play this game or read its rules. They're like capeshit comics fags
>>
>>76964946
>Davepost
>nothing printed or written in-game
Opinion discarded.
>>
>>76964931
A Time Dynamics spell can literally be sent 10,000 years back in time, and it "grows" and adapts to history - changing it to the archmaster's grand designs. Yes it grows. It's just not enough to be considered a proper template - like, say, an Ananke would be - a Time 7 upgrade.
>>
>>76964976
>Gets proven wrong
>Still says this
Wow, it's almost like Mage haters have literally rewired their brains to self-delude themselves to preserve their wounded egos.
>>
>>76965022
It's almost like that's no where in the rules.
>>
>>76965022
>Gets proven wrong
You didnt prove shit magefag. You dumped a Davepost and acted like that was hard evidence when it's literally less than fanfiction, at best. Get fucked.
>>
>>76964931
"A Dynamic Time Travel spell would use Time 6 and work backward - archmages stipulate what they want the outcome of their shenanigans to be, and the Imperial spell then traces back and adjusts history appropriately by itself, without the archmage's input. It's much, much safer, but that's why archmasters are feared and respected."
>>
>>76965068
Is that more dave posting?
>>
>>76965088
Oh yes, the Daviest.
>>
>>76965092
You should get a cooler master who isn't all in on abuser: The gaslighting.
>>
>>76965088
One hundred percent, yes. That's nowhere in any of the books. Notice how he continues to fail in giving actual canon sources and evades questions asked about them?
>>
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>Ruins your Exalted campaign because an archmage told them to do so
Nothing you can do can stop it either
>>
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>>76965128
>That's nowhere in any of the books
Notice how you continue to lie? The Time 6 spell is in IM.
>>
>>76965136
Perfect Defense'd.
>>
>>76965128
>God, holy shit GOD HIMSELF, is telling you somethi-
>"Nope, sorry, if it ain't in the Bible I don't believe it"
>"But I am literally Go-"
>"LAALALLLALALAALALALALA"
Basically you.
>>
>>76965151
>an outdated 12+ year-old book that *still* doesn't say any of the shit you're spouting off
Proving my point
>>
>>76965170
Are you seriously equating Dave with God? Holy fucking shit you're obsessed.
>>
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>>76965190
Have an old meme image
>>
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>>76965190
Just report him for spamming, trolling outside of b and being off-topic
>>
You fucks need to leave this EXWOD shit to it's own thread, holy fuck.
>>
>>76967156
Maybe they can make their own thread, we don't want it there either.
>>
>>76967156
They're not talking about ExWoD. They're just magewanking.
>>
>>76967441
Same shit different asshole, keep it the fuck out of these threads. This is Exalted, this isn't for any WOD trash or mixture of said trash into the thread.
>>
>>76967461
Well, tough. There's nothing to post about in those threads, nobody talks to them or about their shit. So of course they'll come here for you 'people'.



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