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Drow Cleric Edition

>UA: Subclasses, Part 5
https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020_102620_Subclasses05.pdf

>5e Trove
https://thetrove.is/Books/Dungeons%20%26%20Dragons%20%5Bmulti%5D/5th%20Edition%20%285e%29/

>5etools
https://5e.tools/

>Stable releases
https://get.5e.tools/

>Resources:
http://pastebin.com/X1TFNxck (embed)

>Previous thread: >>76929473

TQ: Are Drow kill on sight for you, or do you stop and talk? What do you do when an ally gets kidnapped and taken to a drow city?
>>
>>76936770
we diplomacy every fight. then we kick ass if it goes south
>>
Do you think they're going to re-add candlecasting, or maybe a wizard candle-caste archetype?
>>
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>>76936770
All races not our own are murdered on sight.
>>
What's the best way to go about using the artificer to try and create my own mecha armor or off brand gundam?

My DM's setting does have some advanced technology since he does have a nation which is dabbling in machinery so having a mech suit or powered armor wouldn't be to crazy for his world
>>
>>76936850
Ask to create custom artificer infusion, after doing a bunch of researching/experimentation in character.
>>
>Be sorcerer
>Party has a quest to hunt a white dragon
>Intend to buy scrolls to prepare for this specific encounter
>Realize spell DC is tied to scroll level
>Plan to buy several scrolls of earthbind completely scrapped
Fuck now what other than cry about not being a wizard
>>
>>76936882
earthbind's also a sorcerer spell
>>
>>76936770
I have a rant about this exact topic, but I am tired so I am gonna keep it short
>spend a whole campaign being attacked by drow practically every single session for months
>no meaningful chance of diplomacy
>find some dumb drow wandering in the sewers
>prepare to put this dumb bitch out of her misery
>the rest of the party turns into SJWs and one starts accusing me of being racist
>they 'talk' me out of killing them
>it's some dumb princess and is some kind of plot hook
Fuck you. It's not racism, it's literally just observing a pattern and acting on it. Second of all, yes, it's fucking racism. And that's fine because it's in a fantasy setting where we can explore concepts like this safely.
>>
>>76936900
Yeah but it's not like anon can prepare new spells.
>>
>>76936770
>>76936543
12 minutes older
shant be posting
>>
>>76936957
>encouraging earlyposters
>>
>>76936957
Such a poor mimic. My mannerisms are too subtle for you.
>>
>>76936850
Play artillery to adorn yourself in guns, get the desired armor through magic items, made custom or otherwise.
>>
Flanking:
When 2 or more allied creatures surround a creature, they can spend a reaction to give the target creature the flanked condition until the end of the next turn. The number of medium creatures that are needed to use their reaction to flank depends on the target creature's size. 2 for
Small to Large creatures, 3 for Huge, and 4 for Gargantuan. At any time the target creature is no longer surrounded by those flanking it, it loses the Flanked condition.

Flanked Condition:
Melee attacks rolls against this creature are made with advantage

If this creature moves out of reach of any creature flanking it, that creature can make an attack of opportunity against it.
>>
>>76936850
Be a battlesmith and either be a small race or convince your DM to let you have a large iron defender, then reflavor you mounting it as an independent mount.
Now that the iron defender has been errata'd to be able to take any action, it can use magical items or your spell reproducing item to shoot shit.
>>
>>76937067
Are you the GM, or a player making rules? If you're the GM, read the book. You can give advantage whenever you please, and if they have people doing ANYTHING you consider flanking, give it to them.

Second rule is literally how the game works normally, and people doing disengage still negates it.
>>
>>76936957
>Outdated Tarrasque meme
>Despicable Drow Witch gf

Nah I'll be in the good thread.
>>
Rolled 2, 1, 8, 5, 11, 12 = 39 (6d20)

>>76936770
The perfect thread to roll my Drow Cleric in.
>>
>>76937110
You left it in the sun too long and now it's overcooked
>>
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>>76937110
>>
>>76937093
The one in the DMG is too strong, its essentialy pack tactics. I wanted to oit a cost to flanking
>>
>>76936770
Definitely kill-on-sight for my escaped slave half-drow fighter who hated drow with a burning passion and basically wanted to doomguy the whole underdark.
>>
>>76937110
Didn't think it was possible for an aborted fetus to be ordained a member of the clergy.
>>
>>76937110
Wheelchair drow, wheelchair drow!
>>
>>76936770
>Drow
What is lowest level spell thst hurts light-sensitive races?
>>
>>76937127
tfw you have a quarry to settle
>>
>>76937110
has there ever been a better argument for 4d6 drop lowest?
>>
Rolled 1, 17, 1, 10, 1, 17 = 47 (6d20)

>>
>>76937166
why not just do point buy at that point
>>
>>76937159
It's Sunlight Sensitivity now, so you need the Daylight spell, which is 3rd level.
>>
>>76936770
>TQ
Depends on the character. My Paladin has befriended drow and attempted to save the innocent one's he's met. When given the option to destroy their capital city, he instead chose to save it because he knew some of the drow he'd befriended were in that city and it wouldn't be right.

Most of my other characters would just fuckin' kill them though.
>>
>>76936957
Heh.
>>
>>76937110
As deserved for the shittiest of all elves.
>>
>>76937178
perfect
>>
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DM is talking about running a potential Mass Effect game
Need some personality ideas for a quarian infiltrator (was on pilgrimage but decided to not return back to the flotilla because of wanderlust)
>>
>>76937227
.. Anon? Wrong thread, this is for 5e.
>>
>>76937227
Wrong general
>>
>>76937235
Never underestimate how far people will be willing to bend a system they're used to over learning a different, better-suited system.
>>
>>76937235
>>76937247
We are a 5e group and he is planning on using a homebrew of 5e
>>
>>76937198
>>>innocent drows
>>
>>76937294
Punch him as hard as you can in the shoulder and go "Haha, that sounds stupid. Let's play normal D&D, yeah?" and then motion to punch him again in the face but stop.
>>
Could a full Vampire be a pc?
>>
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>>76937314
Sorry for asking, have a lewd
>>
>>76937352
no
>>
>>76937352
Yes. Planeshifted Vampires. :^)
>>
>>76937352
>>76937386
Read the book.
>>
>>76937384
>dyke hair
>>
>>76937384
When's the funeral?
>>
>>76937352
Ixalan vampires aren't too unbalanced, especially outside of their home setting where you'd be fucked sideways if you got caught feeding.
>>
>>76936900
Sure but as the other guy said, can't reassign spells unless on a level up, and even then wasting one of your precious 15 spells on earthbind, an extremely situationally useful spell, is not ideal.
>>
>>76937384
looks fucking ugly. stop playing bastardized 5e and go play an actual sci-fi system
>>
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Any of you negroids have a look at the 5E content provided by MCDM in their new digital 'magazine' dealie? Probably not much to write home about, since it's just a slightly monetized homebrew collab, but I figure someone might have seen it and has an opinion.
>>
>>76937651
>MCDM
Who cares? It's shit anyways.
>>
>>76937651
They specifically chose authors that were non-white-male and who claim to be non-standard sexualities on twitter. Matt mentions it in his video as trying to nebulously fix the "current state of the industry." I'm sure it's a great product with such a lofty goal.
>>
>>76937651
I like the toad mount
>>
>>76936882
>>76937582
Uh.... didn't the new book add the option to allow spells known casters to swap one spell and one cantrip per long rest? I'm pretty sure that was an advertised feature that people were excited about from the UA
>>
>>76937651
elaborate, what is it? Plane of Arcadia stuff?
>>
>>76937651
I like it until they refuse to publish my stuff
>>
>>76938039
Nope. It was in the UA but they figured that would be too nice for classes that aren't wizards so they scrapped it. The replacement feature is that they may replace one CANTRIP on ASI levels.
>>
>>76936850
my guiding moonlight
>>
>>76938190
Aah, you were at my side, all along. My true mentor..

Memes aside, moonblades are cool and since bladesingers are no longer elf only, I'm giving anyone a moonblade.
>>
>>76938044
Arcadia is just the name they chose for inspiring the cover art and whatnot. In general it's a periodical with freelance work commissioned from around the web to create 'useful' content for D&D. Not just lore and not straight up modules, but like...system modifications or mini-adventures or new monsters and items and how to use them, that kind of thing I guess. They put out a bideo about it but idk more details since am not patron/purchaser
>>
>>
>>76938241
So.. It's Dragon Magazine 2.0, but specifically only pandering to SJWs instead of neckbeards?
>>
>>76937940
Yeah Colville's got a boner for white heteronormative replacement, he's on record saying as much. Not surprising from a dude in his 50s with no children and no stake in the future of the world.
>>
>>76937940
>>76938256
>>76938280
seethe yts
>>
>>76938295
Forgot a couple letters there from all the tears in your eyes?
>>
>>76938383
See you in three days, this is a blue board.
>>
>>76938383
Go bard and put expertise in athletics
>>
Solve a problem for me
So a thief steals my bag of gold, I obviously don't want to sentence someone to death just for some gp
So if I cast hold person successfully on the thief, can I then bind him with rope and carry him over to the guards or do I HAVE to knock him out first by attacking nonlethally?
>>
>>76938552
Sounds like he needs the gold more than you anon, best to just let him have it.
>>
>>76937651
There's a titan sorcerer that does being a giant better than the giant soul did. It makes me want to actually play a sorcerer.
>>
>>76938552
Sounds like the former is fine. Also you're a far nicer person that I am, I'd leap at the chance to chop someone's hands off.
>>
>>76938552
sending someone to medieval prison is pretty fucked up, anon
why don't you do the merciful thing and release him from the struggles of poverty by releasing his organs from his chest cavity. Your wizard should have a sword right?
>>
>>76938552
>give him up to the guards
>The sentence for petty thievery is hanging anyway
>>
>>76938552
paralysis causes the target to auto fail dex saving throws, so yes you'd be able to
>>
>>76938605
I had a dm who'd do stuff like that to me every time I tried to be merciful
>>
>Put the game I run on a hiatus over the holidays while my work was swamped
>Playing again for the first time tonight
>Didn't think too much about the game while we were off cause I just needed the break
>Last three or four days have just been nothing but constant ideas that I've been able to hash out and solidify

I'm more excited than I've ever been
>>
>>76938552
you know the guards will hang him tho?
>>
>>76938740
if he's lucky they'll just cut off one of his hands or fingers.
>>
Have a Sorc player who wants to be gishy, has a homebrew version of SWS coming on the next level, but other than is not very strong in melee and is pretty frail with the worst stats in the party to boot.

What kind of weapon should I give her? I was thinking a Sun Blade but I'm not sure I want her to have the Sunlight abilities. Everything else about it is probably fine though.
>>
>>76938786
Give them a Moonblade.
>>
>>76938794
Was genuinely considering this. Might do a lightning Flametongue but maybe nerf it a bit, dunno.

I'm also worried that a proper strong melee weapon would make her too good in both melee and when she blasts, she's very glass cannon right now so I'd also consider something that entices her to keep melee combat going or engage it in the first place, rather than being able to switch easily
>>
I want to build a character based on Seto Kaiba right here. Most notable backstory elements include:

> Fascination with Dragons
> Self Made Businessman
> Commanding personality type
> Doesn't accept people unless they show exceptional strength
> Very condescending

I'm thinking of three classes though.
> Fighter (Dueling)
> Draconic Bloodline Sorceror (White/Silver Dragon theme)
> Cleric of Bahamut (more dragon theme)

I'm having some trouble deciding. It would be cool if he could summon stuff, but DnD lacks good summoning support from what I have seen (and you can't summon dragons). What do you think?
>>
>>76938918
Generic D&D or forgotten realms?
>>
>>76938918
Isn't that just Seto Kaiba?
>>
>>76938786
What subclass is she?
>>
>>76938918
Cleric would be the most accurate since seto is just a fanboy.
>>
>>76938970
There's also some dragons you could call with Planar Ally.
>>
>>76938950
Draconic, full lightning build.

Currently toying with the idea of a sword called "lightning rod" or "dynamo" or something that gives her something similar to an arcane word, granting temporary hp (and having extra lightning damage) on melee attacks or something within that effect, but if she casts a sorrel that deals lightning damage the "ward" is used up by the spell, either as extra damage or something
>>
>>76938936
I'm always assuming Forgotten Realms when I play.

>>76938943
I want to get close but put him in a more fantastical setting. Something along the lines of an extremely confident caster or fighter. "You're a 2nd level spellcaster with a 3rd rate intellect" or etcetera. Ideally I just want to style on enemies with immense autistic swagger.

>>76938970
I was thinking Cleric too, Planar ally is good... I don't know how I'd shape the cleric spells though.
>>
>>76938998
What level is she at? I'd add in the weapon can be used as a spellcasting focus as a nice minor boost regardless. What rarity value are you looking for here? What weapon proficiencies does she have? Dragon Sorcerer's don't have weapon profs.
>>
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Rolled 14, 14, 4, 9, 17, 11 = 69 (6d20)

Dour Dorf (please CHA 1)
>>
>>76939054
She's level 8, level 9 is when she gets her crazy spell (it's nuts, steel wind strike but less damage and lightning, chance of paralysis, I'm genuinely not sure how balanced it will be yet) and that's coming up in a couple dungeons

Rare or Very Rare is probably where I want

Focus would be a given

She has a longsword proficiency from somewhere and that's what she currently uses, just a +1 one

I'm really liking the idea of:
>+1/2 weapon
>extra lightning damage
>gain temporary hp on a successful melee attack (potentially melee spell so something like shocking grasp could work, I don't think she has Scagtrips)
>If she casts a lightning spell while she has temp HP the spell deals equal extra lightning damage, and she takes some too (half or full not sure)

Just really not sure on the numbers. How much extra lightning damage, how much temp HP, etc
>>
>>76938918

Draconic Sorcerer, absolutely. Seto is also the "reincarnation" of some fucking egyptian guy too so he's got the bloodline thing going for him.

You've got the charisma to be an absolute weiner too, which I think is important for Seto.
>>
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>>76939177
I'd go +1, 1d6 extra lightning damage, and extra damage on lighting spells. The Temp HP bit can be a bit much. If you want some other gishy swords or looking for other ideas you could try and adjust these.
>>
>session 6
>one of our players near the end of the session says "hey can we implement flanking?"
>DM says he's willing to look into it
>other players dont know what it is
Should I speak up?
>>
>>76939326
Do you want flanking?
>>
>>76939374
I have heard bad things in these threads but have never played with it. We have five players and I am worried it will slow down combat, alongside how it will impact the combat itself. Am I overreacting to be concerned?
>>
>>76939392
Does your party struggle to survive or do they blow through combat? If they struggle, or if it's a sometimes yes sometimes no answer, then your DM is already better at balancing than most and the players might need it.

If people are blowing through combat anyways, warn them that it'll slow combat down yeah.
>>
>>76939392
If they want flanking, see if you can steer it away from full on advantage and make it something like a +2
Otherwise the congalines will begin because advantage is such a massive boost
>>
>>76939177
>Longsword on a Dragon Sorcerer
>Low Stats
Why would she do this? Was a Rapier or Slashing Equivalent not an option? This sort of build requires Strength (For Weapon Attack & Damage), Dexterity (For AC, Initiative, and Saves), Constitution (Saving throws and HP), and Charisma (Spells). That's a lot of work for not really good benefits. Especially on a Sorcerer not really made for gishing.
>>
What are some mounts lads
>>
>>76939549
Axebeaks are the iconic fantasy mount.
>>
>>76939421
>>76939440
Its sometimes a struggle but the group loves it.

Thank you both for your insight, I guess we'll just party talk it out prior to next session and see what happens.
>>
>>76939268
I'm thinking of maybe asking the DM if I can be a group patron. Those rules are kind of cool and I think he'd be willing to let it happen. Might tie in well to the whole plot if someone is supplying them too...
>>
>>76939569
Any amphibious ideas? My player has a big water/lightning theme
>>
>>76939549
Displacer Beast
>>
>>76939664
Giant Salamanders/Water Lizards/Toads.
>>
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>School Of Abjuration
>x2 Wizard Level + INT mod in Extra HP
>HP Regens x2 Spell Level each time you cast a leveled Abjuration Spell
>Can Send Ward to protect allies in a critical moment
>Arguably the strongest Counterspell/Dispel Magic user in the game
>Advantage on saving throws against magic and resistance to all magic damage

How does Dragon Sorcerer cucks compete?
>>
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>>76938918
>>
>>76939828
If I EVER get the chance to play Three Dragon Ante with a kiddo, this is gonna happen
>>
Anyone willing to share a copy of MCDM's Arcadia magazine?
>>
>>76939953
Ask PDF Share thread, anon. Use our community properly.
>>
>>76939823
This is normally where someone mentions that Subtle Spell makes you immune to Counterspell.
But I'll bypass that argument with a better argument: who the fuck cares if a Wizard that you're not playing might be better than the Sorcerer that you are playing? Play the character that you want to play, not the one that the charop forum tells you is the most optimal.
>>
>>76939963
Sorry, I've seen other people asking for stuff in these threads before, and I think they are deleting requests from theoutertemple
>>
>>76939823
Defensive wizards are supposed to be like that, D&D is all about the superiority of wizards.
Draconic Sorcerers have the advantage of looking like one of the oldest races of monsters around, invoking fear and hate with just their appearance.
>>
No Illriggers allowed, yes I said it with a hard R.
>>
>>76939823
Simple, you can put up all the barriers you want
have all the health you want
make all the saves you want
but you will never be a dragon wizard
>>
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>>76936770
Anyone else homebrew Drow and Lolth to be Lawful Evil as opposed the Chaotic Evil murderfest it's typically portrayed as? To an outsider they're still asshole slavers and raiders who classify as a monstrous race but within their subterranean cities I like there to be a clear sense of Order and pretty good quality of like (if you're a Drow). They like to portray themselves as the ideal society Elves could be if they asserted their "dominance" but behind the curtain the society clearly only thrives due to taking advantage of all non-Drow, and there are even some pretty brutal rivalries between teh Drow family's themselves.
>>
>>76940093
This is the only right answer here. Good on you anon.
>>76940149
>>76940186
These responses not so much.
>>
>>76940194
Unfortunately, the curse of chaos is something hard coded into Drow, it's why drow are born in litters and eat each other in the womb, why drow society is based around backstabbing.
>>
I have question regarding Maximilian's Earthen Grasp
>As an action, you can cause the hand to reach for a different creature or to move to a different unoccupied space within range.
>move to a different unoccupied space within range.
>within range
The spell has a cast range of 30 feet. If the caster then fucks off another 100 feet in some direction, and use the action to move the hand; where is "within range"? Is this within 30 feet of the the caster's current position, or the hand's?
>>
At what level is it reasonable for a PC, or story PC equivalent (like a novel character) to kill a god? Doesn't need to be level, if you can equivalate what strength they should be at somehow.
>>
>>76940491
Define "KIll a God" and also define what level of god we are talking about here?
>>
>>76940491
Kill an ACTUAL god? I frankly don't see how mortals could do that at any level. Killing an avatar of a god, or a summoned manifestation of a god or a vision of a god, that can happen at any level depending on how you write it.
>>
>>76940511
Let's assume forgotten realms, so the god "dies" and it's body gets dumped into the astral realm-- but that would mean it would have to lack both personal magical power and worshippers/deity ranks, or be somehow drained/emptied/damaged.

Level ~20 shenanigans, right?
>>
My pc's are INTlets. It would be a shame if they went up against something that used an INT save. Something like a brain in a jar.
>>
>>76940537
20th level shenanigans, with God slaying items made explicitly to kill the god in question. Basically like... I don't think even a 20th level mortal could take down a God (let alone alone) without some Godslaying Artifact backing them up and even then they have to go through hordes of their followers and the such. You could have a god like entity aid in the fight and that could work on their end.
>>
>>76940631
I'm sure you're a great DM and that your group is gonna find that encounter just as hilarious as you will!
>>
>>76940636
I'm DMing forgotten realms, set before the time of troubles so levels 20+ and 10th+ magic is also an option still.
>>
Going for path of the ancestors for my dual wielding barbarian. Should I keep pressing strength on my ASIs or should I up con or give them resistance to dex saves to improve survival chances?
>>
>>76940652
I appreciate your confidence in me anon. It's an encounter I've had planned since before they even made their characters. I'm sure it will be fun for everyone involved!
>>
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>>76940631
>tfw pcs are WISlets
>>
>>76940631
I'm going Artificer in our upcoming campaign for just this reason.
>>
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>>76940194
I just treat them as various mega crime families so their flavor can range anywhere from Russian/slavic, Italian, south American cartels to middle eastern royal families.
>>
>>76940689
In 3.5 a level 20+ character killing a God's statblock is a relatively trivial affair, even if you ignore the dumbest exploits like infinite Solars.

If this god-slayer was a figure from the ancient past you could literally make him a 3.5 character sheet to represent him existing in an older, more powerful era than the modern world. In 4th edition slaying a god and taking his place would be the capstone of a character's Epic Destiny.
>>
>>76940692
Play an AG Barb in my game, I went straight for CON, but Im also a bear shifter, which grants Temp HP that scales off CON.
>>
>>76940868
Haha, that's a good point. They almost ran into a level 20 barbarian NPC, but luckily they didn't really interact with them because they were picking up a new teammate instead. Though I'm already translating AD&D/1e/2e Kara-Tur content into 5e, so just throwing a 3.5 sheet around would be weird.

Norse/Faerun gods were what, low 20s to high 30s for CR?
>>
How do I stat a tank? Want to make a big threat in a dungeon crawl that stalks the players.

Candlekeep new wheelchair accessible dungeon.

Despite the fact that asking if a dungeon is handicapped accessible seems like a group in joke, has given me an idea that goblins carved out a tank made of wheelchairs that travels room to room.
>>
>>76940929
there's an animated ballista or equivalent monster, can't remember the name. Make it one of those.
>>
>>76940880
Yeah I'm a bugbear so that won't work. Part of me wants to go zealot but picking an entire subpath for 1d6 + half level a turn kinda sucks ass. So my options are AG, wild magic and zealot for stuff that doesn't eat my bonus action.

Its funny I designed this character as having a death wish but having spent time with them it feels like a waste to have them die like a moron.
>>
>>76940652
>Dump stat
>Complain when you're bad at stat
Player-only people are the worst
>>
>>76940903
Something like that. In Mask of the Betrayer the PC is around level 30 when they kill Myrkul and successfully besiege the City of the Dead
>>
>>76936850
The most accurate answer would be the Armorer subclass in Tasha’s, but the book is considered to be skub at the moment, so no one else will tell you that.
>>
>>76940903
>>76941019
For my final fight of my campaign my players were level 20. There were 6 of them and they were able to fight 2 CR 30s. I didnt give them super crazy items or dumb ass power ups either.

Specifically I used Sul Khatesh and Rak Tulkhesh stat blocks scaled to CR 30.

So I think a Faerun god should be higher than 30.
>>
>>76939533
>longsword

I'm an idiot, she's been using a shortsword with her dex so there's that

As for why? Fucked if I know I don't really get it either but I think it's cool so I'm gonna play to it
>>
Where the fuck are the good humanoids? All of them are so weak, and I don’t want my group to just wipe the floor with a soldier patrol of a nation they pissed off
>>
>>76941209
Cant just have them fight a bunch of Champions? Volos guide has quite a few humanoids that are actually pretty strong.
>>
>>76941209
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-b1P2uN6F6Ua15GNI78TNadI27VacKyH/view
I gotchu senpai
>>
>>76938918
Druid so he can summon multiple monsters in a single turn.
>>
>>76941339
Isn't that against the rules?
>>
>>76941255
so i was looking for a steady increase
a champion is good but i want something lower like cr 5-7 and something higher liker cr 15-19 but for humans and elves and shit.
if these guys defend their cities from that lv of monsters then they should be able to be as strong as them.
>>76941327
this is gucci, thank you
>>
>>76941362
https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#aarakocra_mm
There is all the humanoids. There looks to be a good spread, just pick and choose and edit races to be whatever.
>>
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>>76941339
Shame there is no way to summon three dragons or summon dragons in general. Faerie Dragon's aren't fey so you can't summon them with Conjure Woodland Beings.
>>
What's a good way to quickly determine minor goods available to small/medium fantasy towns?
>>
Last night my friend ran an all warlock one shot. My first time playing a warlock PC. Gosh darn it was so much fun.
>>
>>76940903
No, you're talking to clueless retards. Gods have stats in third edition and they're well beyond anything the players can achieve. Most of them stack 40+ levels in a class on top of having 20 base HD which means they're around level 60 on average. They also have a ton of special powers like a huge resistances to damage, maxing all their HD etc etc There's no point in putting a CR to that kind of stuff

5e just can't handle anything like that so you're better off making some kind of wimpy mortal avatar and call it a day.
>>
>>76941565
What patron?
>>
>>76941565
Warlocks are fun, and actually quite flexible so long as you don't fall for the EB meme.
>>
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Behold the best magic item. It gives casters more spells and martials spells! There is so much good fun that can be had with an item like this.
>>
>>76941417
God of whatever-the-city-is-producing.
>>
>>76941625
Ok, so how do you build your warlock
>>
>>76941628
Ah yes, the engraved testicle manacles
>>
>>76941628
Cloak of Protection?
>>
>>
>>76941628
>It gives casters more spells and martials spells
>There is so much good fun that can be had
So it basically makes you play any older edition of D&D?
>>
>>76941646
I just meant the meme that EB is the only viable warlock. You can make a warlock just fine without it, but some people can't see past optimization as the only metric of a character's worth.
>>
>>76938640
Prison is an extremely modern concept, so it depends on how anachronistic your specific game world is.
>>
What if wish was a sorcerer only spell.
>>
>>76941776
Genie Warlock would still get it because fuck you.
>>
>>76941591
>>76941625
He said pick whichever patron you want mechanically, then morphed what everyone picked into an amorphous blob homebrew deity.

I wanted to play a night hag. So I went human female archfey talisman. My idea was she was a mean old spinster, "always a bridesmaid, never a bride" type who went mad with jealousy and spite and met the deity. I made her extremely aggressive to female NPCs. I built her mainly around debuffs with no eldrich blast.

Three PCs picked EB, three did not- being myself, a bard1/lock5 and a pal1/lock5. It was a really good mix.
>>
>>76939953
MCDM is specifically not allowed in the PDF thread. It's not worth it so just forget it.
>>
>>76941814
Says who?
>>
>>76941586
They probably never read Deities and Demigods and were talking about the gods level 20 Avatars.
>>
>>76941785
Utterly irrelevant as wish doesn't actually exist in real games
>>
>>76941836
Says the PDF share? Read the docs newfag. They're one of the 10ish companies that will try to C&D their products because they know /tg/ and they hate it.
>>
Paladins have their shitty active celestial/fiend/undead scanner, but do you give them passive detection as well?
"this area reeks of undeath"
>>
>>76939392
>>
>>76941720
And I want to know how

Unless you're building around EB you're just some third rate caster with 2 spells per fight before you sit down and do nothing
>>
>>76941904
nope
>>
>>76941807
>mainly around debuffs
so what do you do after you've cast both your spells
>>
>>76940234
Easy enough to drop that. It literally never comes up.
>>
>>76941932
Or you focus around blade pact or chain pact, both of which has things you can do other than EB people.
>>
>>76941932
>>76941807 here

I took the mage armour invocation, devil's sight and the disguise self invocation. I did spells like darkness, crown of madness or hold person to manipulate the battlefield, and dispel or counterspell to annoy the NPC casters. If I got hit I could either hellish rebuke or fey mistystep away behind the enemies and disguise self myself into their armour or uniform or something.

If I had no better options I used chill touch which is 2d8 at level 6, so pretty good.
>>
>>76941979

there are plenty on cantrips that can dubuff, like mind sliver, frostbite, chill touch
>>
>>76940866
I have more of a Renaissance Italy/Papal Stayes/Feudal Japan thing. The cult of Lolth fights to assert both religous
and military authority, Some families want to subvert it to their interest by having their members reach high positions in the cult while political and militant machinations abound between the Matriarchs.
>>
>>76936770
Our party has a NPC drow ally who is actually an ok person, she wants to learn how to time travel. I know because I grilled her while she had spirit curse that made her tell the truth.
>>
>>76942258
Boring and gay, kill her
>>
Bro people actually pay "profesional actors" on Roll 20 to DM. Holy shit thats both hilarious and saddening.
>>
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>>76942137
Makes sense. No reason why the drow of a given area can't or wouldn't pick up the cultural flavor of their nearby surface dwelling residents while still doing their own thing
>>
>>76942258
To what end? Time travel almost always ends up fucking things up worse than it already is or doing literally nothing due to any changes having already happened. Now I'm imagining a good drow that tries to fix the drow through time travel and ends up becoming Lolth somehow. Classic time travel tragedy.
>>
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>>76942258
>I know because I grilled her while she had spirit curse that made her tell the truth.
>>
>>76941904
No but if my descriptions are good enough to make their character feel on edge then I've done a good job.
>>
>>76942336
Wait for real?
Do they make good money?
>>
>>76942072
Yeah this gimping yourself hard though.
>Combat starts
>Cast hold person
>Save succeeds and spell does nothing
>Melee guy grabs you
>Hellish rebuke
And you now have absolutely nothing left you can do until the next rest. If you take EB you can do good damage as backup. Compared to any other full caster which can do that exact same turn several times over without problems.
>>
>>76941628
>animate dead
>have them attune to it
>slot in your favorite concentration spell
>order them to cast it and wait in a corner
Ezpz
>>
What kind of creatures would you expect to see in an undercity? My druid is a golgari spore druid and comes from ravnica originally and can turn into up to a cr 1 creature so Im trying to figure out what kind of creatures I could probably turn into thematically.
>>
>>76942836
ok

so what is an undercity?
>>
>>76942708
I guess we just like different stuff. My rationale was that not taking EB freed up invocations for the style of character I wanted to play. Next week is the sequel where we play a level 11 version of the same character and I'm looking forward to spells like Dream to let me do the proper night hag thing.
>>
>>76942072
Can't misty step and disguise self in the same turn. Disguise self also requires verbal component, so the enemies will hear it.

This exploit doesnt work if DM follows the rules
>>
>>76942868
Basically a city under another city. With lots of garbage. And dead people.
>>
>>76942662
Looks to be around £15 - £20 per person, so not really
>>
I'm just making it up as I go along and i'm just waiting for everything to crash down around me
>>
>>76942873
>not taking EB freed up invocations
You only really need 1 invocation, it's not an extraordinary cost to pay.
>>
>>76943008
Better money than what my garbage art degree's been giving me
>>
>2 moon druid/ 3 drunken master
>be monk ey
>>
>>76943107
Speaking along those lines, how/where do people make good money off furry porn? I always see memes of it but no one ever says where or how they get these commisions.
>>
>>76942873
EB is good though. EB is so good that you can go all in with multiple feats on invocations for SS/CBE or PAM/GWM and just barely pull ahead. This is like playing a paladin who refuses to smite
>>
>>76943212
You need to be good, get a fan base, start a Patreon and get a few people to sub for a few bucks a month
>>
>>76937110
Tell me about your drow cleric. I am playing Drow cleric in Curse of Strahd campaign. I went knowledge domain. I am weak af, but great as a support class. I can manipulate people and get what we need.
>>
>>76943128

no dice, martial arts die and such only apply to unarmed strikes and monkey hands are natural weapons
>>
>dm rolls our stats
>our wizard gets 18 in every stat
bros....
>>
>>76943748
unironically what are the odds
>>
>>76943748
And your wizard player is a girl?
>>
>>76943800
That someone would play in a game where teh DM rolls their stats for them?

probably super low.
>>
>>76943800
I think 1/6^3*6?
>>
>>76943748
so who was sucking who's dick?
>>
>>76943800
I use weighted dice so 100%
>>
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How do I play a halfling without being a massive faggot?
>>
>>76943873
Play a halfling but don't be a massive faggot.
PROTIP: conveneiently "forget" about the existence of your faggot luck.
>>
>all gnomes are dark-skinned

Yes or no? They're Fae children of earth
>>
>>76943873
by not playing a halfling
>>
>>76943800
like $50
>>
>>76943873
>watch Jackson LotR
>watch Jackson Hobbit
>read InCase Alfie
>avoid things depicted in the above
>>
>>76937651
I bought it and liked it. Haven't read the adventure yet, but the art is great all around, the sorcerer subclass looks pretty good, and the celestial viallains are neat. I especially liked the new mount rules and the western-themed oneshot that comes with it, might actually run it soon.
>>
>>76943873
Be a likable person, like a halfling should be

>be polite
>be courteous
>offer to help other players with things like making meals
>>
>>76943831
No, it would be to the 6th. Each individual roll compounds with the next, so it's basically trying to roll a 6 thirty-six times. Rolling three 6s alone is a .4% chance, which means rolling three 6s six times is 9.84^-13%. A nine-in-ten-trillion chance.
>>
>>76943906
>like $50
>offer the DM $50 to let you have 18 in every slot
>he agrees, money changes hands
>first encounter; boss level monster several levels above your CR singles you out and you get your shit pushed in
>DM: Why don't you just go ahead and roll a new character.
>>
>>76943951
That third one is leaning dangerously close into faggot territory.
>>
>>76943800
Divination Wizard/10
>>
>>76943831
(21/1296)^6 assuming 4d6 drop lowest
>>
>>76944002
Only faggots do that, though.
>>
>>76943996
>He doesn't cook
>>
>>76944026
That's not the problem. See >>76943936
>>
>>76944022
>only faggots roll for stats, so your statement is implicitly true
Granted.
>>
>>76941899
Wrong? I run a real game with genie warlocks in it.
>>
>>76942879
The fey mistystep thing. I forgot the name of it... misty escape. Mistystep as a reaction and you're invisible until your next turn without using a slot, then disguise self at will at the start of your next turn
>>
>>76944038
Based example of rules lawyering and/or English language Nazism. You, sir, are a man of taste.
>>
>>76943314
Wrong, monkeys don't have hand/claw natural weapons.
>>
>>76944068
>everything I don't like is a nazi
dilate tranny
>>
>>76943977
Silly Anon, smart businessman wouldn't alienate paying customer like that. If the character drops by sheer accident (or plausible semblance of one), you just offer $10 resurrection.
>>
>>76944068
For full disclosure,
>>76944098
Is not the same as the poster to whom you originally replied, it's me. I regard "English language Nazi" as the highest possible praise in a place that essentially only values eloquence and wit. Thank you.
>>
What gets you more excited when you roll for stats? One really good roll among a bunch of +/- 1s or rolling +2 across everything but not really standing out anywhere?
>>
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>>76944098
>being so young and triggered you forgot about the usage of nazi in the "grammar nazi" sense
>>
>>76944163
having exactly one shit roll and one good roll and the rest being average so I can dump intelligence so that no one can expect any rational thought out of my character and by proxy me.
>>
>>76936770
So if I use Suggestion to a guy so that he "Must answer the whole truth to my questions", does it owrk? My GM says how I say it lacks clarity, thus it doesn't work, and another player says that it doesn't work since the spell would be too broken. What are your thoughts?
>>
>>76944163
I like getting a -3 and putting it in either dex or con. I loved my paladin whose sneak sounded like a box of saucepans falling down a set of stairs. And I love playing as a frail, elderly chemotherapy patient with anaemia
>>
>>76944231
Anon, you're slow and stupid so I'll explain this. You're playing a storytelling game, where you need to use cunning and limited resources to get past obstacles and other things in your way. Just going "I did X, so give me the answer" sucks for the GM and sucks for the other players.
Not only that, you fail to realize that if an NPC is desperately not trying to answer a question, that's another hint from the DM that you are correct even if the character doesn't want you to have that info. So yes, going "tell me the whole truth" doesn't work because of a lack of clarity, so you ask other questions, and the ones he REALLY resists answering are the ones you know are right.
>>
>>76944231
I don't see why it wouldn't work, but as a recourse the DM doesn't have to tell you whether or not the spell was resisted, unlike zone of truth.
>>
>>76943873
Play a character instead of a race.
>>
>>76944231
If we're being real, Suggestion being "Zone of Truth but better" seems unintended. I can't fault a DM for ditching spells (or interpretations of spells) that are busted. I don't have Heat Metal work on worn armor in my game for that reason, for example.
>>
>>76940929
Ballista with movespeed
Maybe some goblins with repeater crossbows riding on it as "turrets"
>>
>>76941625
I don't understand this whole EB meme thing to begin with. People complain that it's boring to cast EB every turn.. but martials swing their weapons the same way all day. As a Warlock you get to do acceptable at will damage (with only 1 cantrip and one invocation, so practically no investment), are very costumizable and you are an incredibly valuable caster too.

Yes, you can't cast more than two spells in each given fight, but how many does the fighter get to cast? Zero. How many fireballs does a level 5-6 wizard cast in a fight? Two, up to three. Fiendpact also casts two, while doing actual damage round to round. And if he takes a short rest after the fight, he's good to go. The wizard's going to get a 3rd level slot back, but only once per day.

>>76944299
It's a storytelling game yes, but suggestion is a spell that basically lets him do that. He can add more to it to make it sound more reasonable, such as "Tell us the truth and no harm will befall you or your family". If it "sucks" as a solution, maybe the DM should have taken it into account when setting up the scenario to begin with. Magic allowing you to bypass problems entirely is nothing new.
>>
got bored and threw together some basic bitch house rules/homebrew for my 5e games, what do you nerds think? any suggestions? comments? scathing remarks?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11tdZPqNM997RFSZimjI8EplY6Ges1DxUAeXPcJFHNbc/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>76944367
seems fine
>>
>>76943899
not all, there are a race of dark skinned gnomes called svirfneblin
>>
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>>76944381
thanks anon
>>
>>76944362
Sure, but even if that did work, him answering a question with the whole truth even ONCE would also end the effect, so it's still a shitty way to try and get a free zone of truth from a charm spell. I lie to all my friends, a charm isn't going to make me not lie.
>>
>>76944299
There's wasn't any questions he resisted answering, it was a blatant "your spell doesn't work" from the get go.

Though I understand that using the spell this way might suck in that situation rp-wise.

>>76944309
True.

>>76944341
Since it is resisted by wisdom instead of charisma, and that in zone of truth you can evade telling the truth, I agree it is kind of busted. The issue (that the GM told me at least was that I lack clarity while saying the spell). The description says I can use up to two sentences, I used one, I don't know how to make it clearer than that...
>>
>>76944341
I do hope you let bard players know beforehand, because as a spell it's hard to justify as it is, it being quite situational and all.
The opponent needs to have metal equipment for it to work, but it can't be a weapon because well.. then he just drops it, pulls out his dagger instead as his object interaction (dropping his former weapon happened as part of the spell) and now I wasted my 2nd level slot to do 2d8 damage against a single target.
>>
>>76944367
can I join your campaign
>>
>>76943899
If you're actually doing it for that reason? Yes. If you're doing it just to have a race of dark-skinned shortstacks? Yes.
>>
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>>76944341
>I don't have Heat Metal work on worn armor in my game for that reason
Roasting the one big armored guy in the room with high AC at the cost of your concentration + bonus action every turn is a fair trade I think
It's just another spell that fucks over a specific type of character like how Shocking Grasp has advantage on anyone wearing metal
>>
>>76944406
It lasts for the full duration, as the phrase was worded. The DM can say it is an unreasonable suggestion (since that is an easy bar to clear), but I think he's being disingenuous if he thinks that it's an ambiguous one.
>>
>>76944406
He has to pursue the course of action to the best of his ability, so at least he'll tell us everything we need to know if we ask the right question.
It's for his and his family's safety, after all.
>>
>>76944231
> The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the course of action sound reasonable. Asking the creature to stab itself, throw itself onto a spear, immolate itself, or do some other obviously harmful act ends the spell.

For me this would be what the outcome would hinge on.

> you must tell us all your secrets so we can hurt the people you care about

Does not sound reasonable. But if you could come up with a one sentence argument for why the recipient should tell you the truth I'd probably allow it.
>>
>>76944424
They are hairless
>>
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>>76943899
Gnomes in my setting are vaguely Indian-flavored. Dark-skinned, live in the jungle.
but their whole culture revolves around magical socialist zaibatsus
>>
Does anyone run a pay to play game?

I've been in a few now and it seems like everyone who runs them has sand on their fucking brain and decides that after having spent 3 months of dming the game it's now time to turn this into a profession.

I just want a competent DM who is not a moron.
>>
>go to talk in a D&D discord
>Guy asks for help with basic Dming
>I recommend 5e tools
>Mod deletes the post and says no piracy
>>
>>76944473
Hot.
>>
>>76944489
>the deep gnome I am playing is literally from a eusocial commune
Based
>>
>>76944433
And then there are armor types made of other materials than metal.

Who's crazy now, says the druid.
>>
>>76944500
you're a moron for telling people about 5e tools
>>
>>76944420
when i learn how to actually organize myself and my time, sure
>>
>>76944497
I'd never play for a DM desu
>>
>>76944466
>>76944458
The spell also says
>If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do.
So if you asked him to tell the whole truth, then asked a bunch of questions, he'd only need to tell the truth for the first.
>>
>>76944517
You don't buy snacks or drinks?
>>
>>76944497
Competent DMs don't need you to pay them to play their favorite hobby with them, retard. Don't pay for tabletop games.
>>
>>76944433
>>76944414
I was upfront with spell changes before anyone took them. My issue with Heat Metal is, "If I used this against the players, it would just fucking kill them. If a spell is too powerful to even NPCs to cast, the players don't need it either."
I feel like denying a creature their weapon or shield is valid, but being able to roast anyone wearing metal armor is unnecessary. This is a spell that functioned very differently in 3.5E (it ramped up and down, and did less damage even at its greatest strength) and it seems like they just turned their brains off when it came to the 5E implementation.

We did have an Artificer PC use it to great effect on some metal-shelled catoblepases, though.
>>
>>76944539
it is hard to find a competent DM on my work schedule. Of the 3 years I've been playing 5e I've played maybe 2 months of it and the rest has been dming
>>
>>76944524
The first question can be for him to tell you about everything he knows that could help us in solving x. He hasn't told us the whole truth until he's divulged practically everything.
>>
>>76944524
Yes, but you can't complete the task of answering his question"s" by answering a single question, or even two or three. Open ended tasks that can't ever be reasonably completed are fine, they just end after the spell ends.
>>
>>76944574
>Tell us everything you know tthat could help us in solving this murder
isn't a question, literally speaking.
>>
>>76944535
no I dont play in person
>>
>>76944544
Eh, fire damage isn't the best due to being a common resistance and Heat Metal scales well but it's still situational. You gotta give meatwall enemies more HP if just 2d8 a turn is doing them in too easily on an already rather situational use of the spell unless you're doing nothing but fighting the local town guard.
>>
>>76944590
>can you tell us everything about X that will help us in Y?
Is absolutely a question
>>
>>76938886
Might not be the worst thing in the world to grant her some stat bonuses to help with the MADness of her build
>>
how the fuck do i make combat fun?

its always a fucking slog of "i swing, ok you go"
>>
>>76944614
>Possibly.
Spell's over.
>>
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What are some good ways to incorporate blobs into an island full of treasure?
>>
>>76944641
I have a system I'm slowly burning into my players.
>inb4 "anon that just slows down combat"
I stop before I roll, and briefly describe the intent behind or the arc of a swing and leave out if it hit or misses, and then I roll the die. If it hits, I can finish the narration and roll damage, and if it misses I already said all I needed.

Yes, it bogs down combat, especially the more people in combat. But my players enjoy being able to hear how they missed because the enemy smacks their weapon aside, rather than the dice saying they missed.
>>
>>76944660
all the treasure is stuck inside them
>>
>>76944641
Varied terrain and cover
Spellcasters
Weird monsters
Special objects/traps in the room
>>
>>76944544
What you don't take into account is that monster health is literally inflated to the point of being two+ times as much as similar level PCs so the spells that fuck players don't always fuck monsters. Players can deal 40+ damage novas at level 5 and monsters generally cannot. This is not a problem principally because monsters have more HP than players (as an example)
>>
>>76944544
>We did have an Artificer PC use it to great effect on some metal-shelled catoblepases, though.
It seems impossible to use effectively on anything else post nerf.

>I feel like denying a creature their weapon or shield is valid
For a 2nd level spell and a saving throw with my concentration I could make him skip his whole turn (or two enemies with upcast Tasha's), and I could do so against almost every enemy, not only ones with metal equipment.

>"If I used this against the players, it would just fucking kill them. If a spell is too powerful to even NPCs to cast, the players don't need it either."
The solution to this is to break the enemy's concentration asap. Gives combats an interesting twist outside of just "focus fire enemies until they aliven't".
As a player I would only welcome curveballs like this. If it's cast on the cleric, it won't even be impacting his combat capabilities.

But as long as you let players know ahead of time it's gucci. It's a situational spell to begin with, so it doesn't really nerf bards or druids either.
>>
>>76944660
They learned how to use magic items
>>
>>76944660
i actually have a perfect idea i used for that scenario but because you posted that image i'm not telling you
>>
>>76944693
it's bad enough you responded at all desu
>>
>>76944649
See
>>76944579
>>
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>>76936770
Drow are fuck on sight. Drow love a man that knows how to bang.
>>
>>76944641
> what does your swing look like?
> what does your eldrich blast look like?

If you're DM and the fighter misses the kobold, rather than making it a failure on the fighter's part, make it a success on the kobold's part

> as you raise your sword up the kobold catches a shimmer of steel from the corner of his eye and darts between your legs at the last second. His tail grazes your inner thigh and you feel confusing feelings you hope aren't going to awaken something dormant inside you
>>
>>76944693
*pounces on you* please tell me welp
>>
>>76944706
see
>>76944299
>>
>>76944674
>>76944685
I'll use both of these. I think that the other NPCs will be pirates and a pirate captain who are trying to get the treasure back after stashing it there.
>>
>>76936882
>>76936900
>>76936927
You can cast a spell from a spell scroll if it's on the class's list. You don't need to know it. I don't understand what the issue is. But I also know nothing about sorcerers. What is the issue?
>>
>>76944660
The island full of treasure IS the blob
>>
>>76941327
for the race adjustments you gotta take away flight from aaracokras at level 1
>>
>>76944764
Damn, that can be the finale.
>>
>>76944544
In truth, of course anything the DM does can fucking kill the players. The conceit of running a game is just that: making it a game. If everyone acts 100% logically and things work 100% efficiently then there's no story there. What drives decisions isn't cold math in the heat of combat, it's "what can I do to end this quickly." Heat Metal would end it quickly enough, but until it ends, the caster is a sitting duck and that creates an interesting dilemma.
"It would suck to use this on players" just means that you as a DM don't use that on players. That's all it fucking takes.
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>>76944714
This just adds flourish to a stale combat, usually slowing it down. It's best to add the flourish when the stakes are high, or the fight's interesting.
>>
>DM just charged my character 3gp for a glass of wine
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>>76944748
Okay. I realize the anonymous nature of the board makes it difficult to engage in difficult debate. My initial point was to say that it is acceptable to simply adjudicate that the suggestion is unreasonable, rather than engaging in demi intellectual sophistry to try to explain away on technicality that the suggestion won't work because it's too open ended, or whatever. The verbiage is already in the spell for a DM to arbitrate uses of this spell he doesn't like, rather than trying to bullshit it.
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>>76936882
Earthbind sucks at taking down dragons though, it's a strength save and dragons are really good at those.

>>76938039
That feature was stupid, and they didn't port it.

>>76944762
The spell's DC is determined by the scroll in this case, not the caster. For a 2nd level spell scroll, it's DC 13.
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>>76944823
>PC just paid 3gp for a glass of poisoned wine
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>>76944672
>>76944714
Describing the attack helps, I've been trying to add that into turns. Players less into doing it, but they like hearing.

>>76944676
Trying to add this in. Have a big white dragon fight coming up. Trying to have zany things happening.
I dont want things to be too obvious but also encourage players to use terrain. Things like massive chandeliers, damaged pillars, etc. I struggle to have players use these, they tend to just think in terms of what abilities their character has
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>>76938682
Glad you have learned the value of pacing yourself. You should take a two or three week break every 4-6 months
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>>76944835
>Poison tends to cost 100+ gold per dose
>Finally, a use for detect poison and disease
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>>76944602
Things wearing armor aren't generally things that have resistance to fire. And per >>76944678 they're generally not things with inflated health pools, either.

But it's not even the 2d8 per turn that's the problem. It's the 2d8 per turn with no reasonable way of stopping it until it's killed the target. There's no interaction there. Cast Heat Metal, have Bard/Artificer leave the encounter. I just punched "Knight" into the search bar and got a Githyanki Knight, who wears plate mail, and has 91 HP. This is a CR 8 creature. Rolling 20d8 ten times, I got 83, 104, 81, 87, 73, 94, 93, 85, 88, and 62. That's three outright kills, and five more that would put the knight into "yeah I don't want this fight anymore territory". Again, CR fucking 8, undone by the heat-it-and-beat-it strategy of a level 3 Bard.

It would be lame as shit if I did it to the PCs, so it's still lame if they do it in the other direction--but there's no reason for them not to if they want to win. Heat Metal was not sensibly balanced. It's a bad spell, but that's not exactly new.

Here's 3.5E's Heat Metal, for comparison's sake:
>7 rounds, with some AoE scaling based on level
>No damage on the first round, 1d4 on the second, 2d4 on the third through fifth, 1d4 on the sixth, and no damage on the last. 8d4 damage total, requiring six rounds to get there.
This is actually an interesting spell. It winds up being a lesser Fireball whose tradeoff for being cast at a lower level is the time delay and necessity of metal equipment.
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>>76944875
>It's the 2d8 per turn with no reasonable way of stopping it
Have you tried having other enemies hit the caster?
If they've got dudes wearing armor they're probably somewhat intelligent unless it's just a bunch of shitty skeletons still wearing the platemail they died in
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>>76944847
>Players less into doing it, but they like hearing.
Maybe they'll get better as they get more confident, maybe they won't. Next campaign make mention in the session zero that you would like some roleplaying in your roleplaying game.
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>>76944864
Anyone else actually enjoy an episodic or chapter based system? Pacing with "bosses" or significant mini conclusions?
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>>76944867
>implying NPCs spend money
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>>76944875
Yes but concentration is an immensely important resource that this spell uses that doesn't exist in 3.5 and your white room example is reductionist to the absurd. I'll bet if you reverted it and gave your players explicit instructions to exploit it, they never would be able to find a relevant situation.
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>>76944909
I hope i could have avoided that. Ive had an npc use the enviroment around them in a recent fight but it didnt seem to stick
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>>76944829
>The spell's DC is determined by the scroll in this case, not the caster. For a 2nd level spell scroll, it's DC 13.
Yeah and? Pass a 13 bro. Ez. Have your cleric/paladin bless you. Even ez-er
>>
>DM is unironically letting players fuck NPCs
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>>76944899
>just break concentration
It's a spell cast from 60' that is maintained no matter where you go. You can be 90' away from your target, who is presumably a front-liner (per the armor), on the same turn you cast this. You can spend your following turns Dashing, since keeping the spell ticking only requires a bonus action. Enemies Dashing after you are not attacking. Unless you're in an empty field, you're not taking attacks to break your concentration. Just leave the combat area.
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>>76944764
Nightmare from the first Devil May Cry is a fully geared up slime. It's so weird how it's got its own devil trigger
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I want to expand skills in 5e to involve multiple tiers of expertise. How would you dole out skill points to accommodate for a skill system along the lines of

Proficiency Levels---Bonus
Jynxed : -10
Untrained : -5
Beginner : 0
Apprentice : ½ Proficiency (rounded down)
Journeyman : Proficiency
Expert : Double Proficiency
Master : Advantage
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>>76944875
>the bard/artificer did 2d8 damage a turn and nothing else
At my table, we'd call that "useless"
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>>76944915
Yeah these can be fun if done right
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>>76944983
Bows exist
Most humanoid monster statblocks have a shortbow or crossbow by default even
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>>76944965
You probably don't need to make it sound as passive aggressive and bitchy as I made it sound
> Hey guys, this campaign I would really like to push myself with more narrative descriptions of combat, and it would make things easier for me and more enjoyable for all of us if you could help by also trying to be more descriptive as well, and try to make use of the environments and scenarios I've written
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>>76944982
as long as I don't have to hear it or any awkward attempts by either side to flirt I am fine with this
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>>76944983
The fuck kind of encounters are you running where a caster doing 2d8 damage a turn to one guy then booking it out of a room is worth nerfing a spell over? The caster dashing away is wasting their action doing actually nothing, concentrating on one single target spell so they can't use any actual big battlefield affecting stuff on the same level, or even first level spells that have a bigger overall impact on a fight like Faerie Fire or whatever.
And in any other situation it's only good for getting someone to drop their magic sword/rod or fuck with someone stuck in handcuffs and not much else.
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>>76944875
>have Bard/Artificer leave the encounter.
> That's three outright kills, and five more that would put the knight into "yeah I don't want this fight anymore territory".

I see it as a lot of turns to warn the entire base that they're being invaded, plenty of time for the Knight to heal up drinking ALL the healing potions that would have been loot for the PC's in an attempt to not die, and prepared a task force to deal with the PC's.
What could have been two to three combats, is now one massive encounter that is going to suck for the PC's. So there is another reason for them not to do this if they want to win- they should at least finish of the enemies before moving on.

Also, escaping an encounter isn't always feasible for the whole party. If the knights dash up to the bard and reach him (or any PC for that matter), he'll have to eat opportunity attacks or remain within 30ft distance each turn as he slowly tries to get out. If there is a caster and he disables one of the PC's that tries to escape, it's a very ugly situation to be in for the players.

And lastly, you can just talk to the table that you don't want them to cheese encounters like this. Since you already homebrew nerfed Heat metal, consider instead having it break with distance if you're afraid of PC's running away. Or if PC's don't see the target for two or more turns. Because you were fine when the artificer used it on those catoblepases, and they could have 'cheesed' the encounter there too.
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>>76945064
but I do
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>>76944997
If you have a spell ticking down that is going to delete a target after a minute, why is the rest of the party sticking around either? PCs can kite. There's no reason for the rest of the party to engage if they can similarly avoid damage, knowing that all they have to do is stall for a few turns before they're forever down one enemy.

>>76945004
>Unless you're in an empty field
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>>76944989
Would it make sense to award "Skill points" based on your modifier bonuses but you can only spend points gained on skills that are impacted by the skill you got the points from?
ie: points from DEX can only be spent on DEX skills etc
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>>76945076
Have you tried calmly explaining that you find this uncomfortable and you'd like them to stop? or if you don't want to do that stab them both and burn the building down?
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>The party is embroiled in a conflict dealing with shadow monsters invading from the shadowfel
>turns out the druid only has 8 str
It is turning into a game of "nuke the MM shadows and not the DM's homebrew shadows" because the DM has yet to roll below a 3 on the strength drain dice when the shadows do hit
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>>76944989
>>76945087
I would leave a game/bitch INTENSELY if my GM started doing obnoxious stuff like this.
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>>76945080
I'm honestly really confused now
Can you give a specific story of a fight where Heat Metal made shit too easy? On the Druid spell list alone I'd much rather use Spike Growth if we're fighting in a dungeon and the enemies can all be assumed to be coming from one direction, instead of using Heat Metal on one guy and then leaving the room
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>>76945107
I'm doing an "Advanced 5e" variant system because I find 5e too handwavey and whatnot. I'm just looking for some input and ideas to help make this a smooth mechanic
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>>76945104
>oh no my DM didn't completely fuck one of my fellow players
You're a cunt and no one likes you.
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>>76945065
>the monsters are in this room so we're all going to fight in here
You're the kind of player who dies to a shambling mound or most oozes.
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>>76945126
Don't know how you came to that conclusion buddy, try working on your reading comprehension
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>>76945080
> He finds playing one of those Benny Hill chase scenes enjoyable

Whatever blows your hair back I suppose.
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>>76945080
>be a character with 30' movement and a ranged attack
>completely invalidates monsters with less than 30' movement and no ranged attack options
NERF PLS WIZARDS OP
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>>76945128
Point to exactly where in my post I said that

A caster using ONE concentration spell on ONE target and then leaving the room has effectively made no net change to the fight since both sides are now down one person.
Actually it's only the PCs that are down one until about a minute passes unless you're rolling 16 on 2d8 every turn.
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>>76945128
How do you die to a creature without a bonus to his wisdom save..?
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>>76944989
For clarification, I think "Untrained" should be the default level of skill, but I wanted to have "Jynxed" as something you might run into during character creation if you happen to get a perfect storm of Class/Bad stat rolls. Like if you're a wizard with 6 STR you might start naturally Jynxed in Athletics because you're a fucking book nerd who sucks even harder than the average untrained joe
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>>76945165
So in addition to dying to shambling mounds, you're a fucking goldfish who forgets every other point made in previous posts and can't extrapolate at all.
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>>76942336
>>76944497
Ahahah shits real even on /5eg/
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>>76945165
They mean to have the whole party run, because they suuuurely won't be initiative fucked and suuuurely no enemy can catch up in their own territory/has any way of hitting or disabling enemies from a distance.
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>>76944544
Are you making sure the player actually has an open flame available before they're casting the spell?
The hunk of iron is assumed to be in their component pouch, but they still need to produce a source of fire before casting, otherwise it doesn't work.
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>>76945187
Again, point to where in my post I said you can't leave the room
I'm literally saying a caster dropping a single target spell then walking away is fucking stupid and effectively gives your side no advantage in the fight because it's still going to take AT LEAST two turns even at low level for that fatass wearing plate armor to die to Heat Metal
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>>76945203
Spell focuses or component pouches let you ignore all material components without a cost.
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>>76944789
nigga u a bore
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>>76945203
That's not how named components work. If you have a pouch or a focus, you can ignore anything without a gold cost. Those named components are just there for fluff or if you somehow get disarmed of the only-limited-by-your-wallet number of pouches you can strap to your body and orbs you can pull out of a pocket to hold.
>>
Anyone ever play a psi warrior fighter?
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>>76945243
Yeah.
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>>76944875

>with no way of stopping it

First of all, it's literally less damage on average than a guy doing 1d8+5 from Mod. Second of all, the caster could be concentrating on something much bigger at almost any spell level. If they're using Heat Metal to deal a measly 9ish damage a turn, then they're not using Haste on their big boiz in the front, they're not using Hold Person or Banishment to completely eliminate someone from an encounter, and if they're running away so they can't be targeted by anything they're not doing anything else that's useful either.

You are seriously, seriously over estimating this spell.
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>>76945080
>my stupid ass white room scenario that proves my point is valid while yours is not
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>>76944340
This is why humans are and will always be the best
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>>76945218
>allowing that shit in your game
You wanna cast a spell, you have the components and do the gang signs. Removing components and requirements for spells aside from spell slots is what makes casters obnoxious to run for imo.
Also do variant encumbrance and track coin weight.
Make those book nerds regret using STR as their dump stat by actually making them leave shit behind at the base/caravan and pick and choose what they bring along because they have 8 STR. There are ways to prevent casters from being obnoxious without focusing on the spells too much

>>76945241
>That's not how named components work. If you have a pouch or a focus, you can ignore anything without a gold cost.
How the fuck is he keeping an active flame in his bag or pouch? Does he just have a lit torch in there at all times?
There needs to be a source of fire, as in a bonfire, a lit torch, a candle, something.
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>>76945255
>tons of enemies have 60' weapons and there's no cover or objects to break line of sight is a less common scenario than not
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>>76945270
>How the fuck is he keeping an active flame in his bag or pouch?
some sort of flamable material and a spark
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>>76945270
>How the fuck is he keeping an active flame in his bag or pouch?
matches exist anon, that or any focus
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>>76945289
For the sake of semantics, they'd need a match at least. A spark isn't a flame.
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>>76945270
>give away all my money
>nothing of value is lost
A bunch of extra bookkeeping to solve the problem of 'nerds' sounds like a winning idea anon
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>>76945270

You are seriously overestimating the power of casters. Just let them cast their spells.

A good DM, even at higher levels, will find ways to make martials feel relevant without obnoxiously making their casters unable to play.
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>>76945286
>a bunch of enemies don't wear metal armor
???
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>>76945100
oh god oh fuck he's describing the player climbing on top of her
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>>76945121
Not him but I've assassinated several important figures or been in parties with others who have just using it. Casting it in a fair combat isn't even the best use
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>>76945324
I suggest you leave. I'd like you to stop posting here too.
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>>76945324
.. the player, and not the character?
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>>76945270
>A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description).
The description says it can hold all the components. If a spell specifies something that doesn't seem like the pouch can hold it, clearly the pouch can.
You can also get around this with any arcane focus.
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>>76945270
>Removing components and requirements for spells aside from spell slots is what makes casters obnoxious to run for imo.
I'm sorry but the party really doesn't feel like waiting for gandalf to finish rummaging through trashcans for copper wire.
Sounds like the definition of obnoxious.
>Make those book nerds regret using STR as their dump stat by actually making them leave shit behind at the base/caravan and pick and choose what they bring along because they have 8 STR. There are ways to prevent casters from being obnoxious without focusing on the spells too much
Meh, don't feel like this is a big deal either. As a caster, you still don't need to carry that much to begin with, if anything encumbrance being a thing makes the wizard more valuable because he can just use spells such as floating disk, phantom steed, instant summons... to handle loot.
When you run variant encumbrance, it's dex based martials that really suffer.

>How the fuck is he keeping an active flame in his bag or pouch? Does he just have a lit torch in there at all times?
Crystallized fire shard. It has a very small ember within it that never dies. It's magic.
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>>76945346
the character yeah, turned out to be a succubus
>>76945340
you'll never have to know its me
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>>76945306
You don't gotta give away all your shit, but this is what wagons, caravans and player housing are for.
The Wizard should not be a walking armory with a backpack full of literally everything he owns.

Enforcing encumbrance properly means the wizard has to pick and choose what he brings, while the fighter who built his character around being strong as fuck doesn't have to worry about not being able to carry everything because he actually can.

Its half about enforcing the detriments that are meant to be there for casters, because STR is not meant to be worthless. And half about letting STR based players reap the rewards of their choices.
Why the fuck would you ever pick STR if everyone else has unlimited carry weight?
So you can get higher damage numbers with STR weapons?
Literally just pick DEX and you get big damage numbers AND high AC and all the skills.
By not enforcing encumbrance you're breaking the balance of the game and pigeon holing people into hyper focusing on the same few stats that are objectively the most valuable because most people find enforcing rules for the others too much of a hassle.
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>Party casts Heat Metal on one guy and run back into the hallway
>Some guards persue the party, one left behind with the guy getting microwaved in his armor raises the alarm, more guards come from other directions including where the PCs just ran to
This conversation is stupid
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>>76945367
>if anything encumbrance being a thing makes the wizard more valuable because he can just use spells such as floating disk, phantom steed, instant summons... to handle loot.
>When you run variant encumbrance, it's dex based martials that really suffer.
Exactly, not only does it give these spells some value, but it removes some spell slots from the wizard because as a result of his dump stat STR he now needs to compensate for his noodle arms with magic.
By not making him do that you're giving him extra spell slots to explode everyone with using fireballs.
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>>76945370

everybody in DND is literally a walking armory with everything they own you fucking nonce

strength doesn't need you to sit there and fluff it under the fucking table to be worth it, the stat is fine on its own
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>>76945328
If Heat Metal's such a bad spell, I don't know why everyone's so intent on defending it. Every other time I've seen it mentioned in 5eg, people talk up how great it is for exactly that kind of reason. It's like we all actually know how easy it is to cheese it, but when it gets put on the chopping block it's suddenly time to pretend otherwise.
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>>76945313
>DM swears casters are OP
>makes the party do burner encounters to waste spell slots
>real session starts
>casters are severely underpowered
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>>76945395
It IS a good spell but the specific use of burning down one guy wearing armor is highly situational because
>You're not using any other 2nd level or higher concentration spell that might be better for the overall fight, unless your DM is making you fight literally one enemy at a time
>You're not always just fighting dudes in armor in the first place
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>>76945395

what the fuck are you smoking

we're not so much defending heat metal as we're trying to get you to realize that you're a retard

i don't know where you're talking about these other people in 5eg talking about how great and amazing the spell is but clearly they're retards too

the spell is okay. that's it.
>>
>>76945378
>the guards wouldn't raise the alarm if the party actually stuck around to fight
>at least now there's one dead guard and the party's gone again
Man, a single Druid could shake and bake the nearly the entirety of the city guard over the course of a few months. Thieves' guilds would get one shithead Bard just to help them merc the constabulary day after day.
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>>76945393
>everybody in DND is literally a walking armory with everything they own you fucking nonce
Maybe if your DM is a lazy cunt
Why would you ever build tower or a fortress or anything, why would you ever rent a room at an inn, why would you ever buy a caravan or anything for storing items when your players just have free magic backpacks

Literally why even have Bags of Holding in the game if your characters shirt pocket can already carry 3 swords, an axe, a few staves, an adventurers kit, an extra suit of heavy armour, a bunch of potions, some throwing knives, and two weeks of rations?
>>
My players will be fighting an Ogre with a headband of intellect who mastered martial arts before turning to banditry. What's his theme song?
>>
>>76945438
Judas Priest - Tyrant
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>>76945434

>why even have a bag of holding

to get around weight limits with what you can carry, no shit

>why ever stay in an inn

so you don't have to sleep outside on the fucking ground for once. if your players are the ultimate walking armory hobos and you're mad that they don't wanna go to an inn that's a group problem, not a problem with the system.

there doesn't need to be an in game reward for going to the inn.
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>>76945430
>>the guards wouldn't raise the alarm if the party actually stuck around to fight
Not if they're busy actually fighting the party. Maybe if they stuck around they could've stopped James McHugecoward at the back of the room from bolting and alerting everyone else
>and the party's gone again
Did you miss the party where their clever escape is cut off by more guards or what
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>>76945438
https://youtu.be/WZRnyJltTTY
>>
>>76945438
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPSNoUADGU
>>
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>>76945481
>Clutch
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>>76945438
Why did he turn to banditry? Did his master choose his fellow disciple as successor instead of him?
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>>76945370
>Enforcing encumbrance properly means the wizard has to pick and choose what he brings
All he needs is his robes, a wasterskin, a bedroll, his spellbook and focus. The fuck else does he need? Nobody needs a tent because he can cast Leomund's tiny hut. No one needs flint and steel because he can magic fire into existance.

>Why the fuck would you ever pick STR if everyone else has unlimited carry weight?
People don't have unlimited carry weight, though. Just saying that this benefits the arcane casters comparatively to other classes, overall.

>So you can get higher damage numbers with STR weapons?
Yes.
>Literally just pick DEX and you get big damage numbers AND high AC and all the skills.
The AC of strength and dex builds is the same, if somewhat higher on strength builds once they finally get full plate. As a matter of fact, for the highest ac on a dex build you only need 14 dex, which even a strength build can afford.
The damage is favored for strength on melee weapons, and for dex on ranged.
The skills are okay. Initiative and stealth are nice, sleight of hand and acrobatics though are not. Athletics is much more useful. Really, dex saves are the kicker here.

>By not enforcing encumbrance you're breaking the balance of the game and pigeon holing people into hyper focusing on the same few stats that are objectively the most valuable because most people find enforcing rules for the others too much of a hassle.
Or you reward strength in different ways. A strength character can push down that door, shove enemies into terrain while resisting being shoved themselves, manipulate their environment effortlessly by creating barricades, logging down trees... DM's and players just don't take into account the benefits of being super strong in tabletops in general, because strength is reduced to the 'carry weight stat', which is annoying and boring to track outside of just eyeballing it.
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>>76945438
Eyy that's the shit I've done before, it's the best.
>>
>>76945475
>sounding the alarm is impossible if the party is nearby
>it's somehow reasonable for a man roasting in his armor to go do that while everyone else runs off, but not for any one guard out of the group to do it even when everyone's still around
>the party didn't clear their ass first or this is a magical castle/dungeon/city/cyberpunk2077 where guards just spawn on rooftops behind you the moment you commit a crime
If you wanted to conjure up a scenario where casting Heat Metal and running isn't useful, as if it disproves every other great use of the spell, the correct answer was "the bad guys are doing something time-sensitive that needs to be stopped and doesn't rely on the activity of the one guy who's going to die to the spell".
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>>76945541

>as if it disproves every other great use of the spell

fucking L-O-L
>>
RIP Cast-off armor.
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>>76945564
what is the context to this
>>
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>Reading wheelchair rules
>Says 'restoration is expensive, so not everyone can have it!"
>Wheelchair costs 200gp
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>>76945562
Yes anon, the post you responded to just now also agrees with that statement.

>>76945568
Didn't make it to 5e.
>>
>>76945575
>Didn't make it to 5e.
Buddy...
>>
>>76945541
I'm not saying it's not useful you retard, you would LITERALLY get more mileage out of almost any 2nd level spell in a typical fight in a medium sized room where ranged attacks on the fleeing party somehow isn't possible that you forced as the scenario here in the first place. So nerfing the spell by making the niche use of cooking someone in their own platemail is fucking stupid.
I would love to know what carefully planned out encounter you had that somehow got ruined by Heat Metal of all things and left you this assblasted.
You would literally have to be playing any humanoid group of enemies like mindless zombies for this scenario of "Heat metal one guy, walk away" to be some flawless unbeatable plan.
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>>76945575
isn't it a common item in Xanathars
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>>76945571
where were the rules posted?
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>>76945581
>>76945588
These anons are acting like it doesn't exist, so we have to play along with them and pretend there's no counter to Heat Metal though.
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>>76945541
The guards are too preoccupied to sound the alarm when the party is there. But when the party attacks and runs away? Yeah, they have all the time in the world. You put them all on high alert just to pick off one guy- maybe his friends even cut off the straps off his armor to get him out of it in time.

Everything that wears armor is intelligent enough to counteract your plan when you give it enough time to consider it's options.
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>>76945562
I don't know if you're legitimately dumb enough to not understand how you can use Heat Metal to be a massive shithead or if you're just pretending, but it's stupid either way.

>>76945568
The Heat Metal argument, obviously. Cast-Off Armor can be doffed as an action.

>>76945575
Didn't it?
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>>76945575
>>76945606

it's hilarious to me because the one SUPER OP THIS SPELL NEEDS TO BE NERFED scenario you can come up with is already incredibly contrived

it's funny too because the damage is shitty and you could just use any other fucking spell. Like, Hold Person maybe? If you think that 2d8 from heat metal was rough just wait until the barbarian, fighter, or paladin walk up to him and crit all 2/3 of their attacks. And Hold Person is good on more than just some big dumbass in metal armor.
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>>76945606
every single enemy having a common magic item breaks my suspention of disbelief
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>>76945510
The master taught the Ogre just to see what would happen then left to see what he'd do
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>>76945604
>the reasonable solution to a spell being too easily abused is to give a ton of enemies armor that just explodes off them
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>>76945620

you seem like the kind of guy who can't believe that the world is round because everything around you looks flat so i can see how that's true.
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>>76945620
But it fills my wallet, so who am I to complain?
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>>76945620
You can absolutely write a setting such that it doesn't make it break your precious suspension of belief.
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>>76945614
Casting Heat Metal on an enemy and leaving is contrived?
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>>76945630
Then just don't allow Heat Metal.
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>>76945601
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ysDrH2vqKz6NSGkf3_0WX5tV-Ch_t_N_

Here is the creators dropbox link.
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>>76945657
That's how this whole argument got started. Someone nerfed it to not work on worn armor and others got upset.
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>>76945614
>a disabling spell that gives you the enemy a save every turn and requires someone in range to do the fatal damage is the same as a spell that is fatal on its own
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>>76945652

You'd probably do more damage not casting Heat Metal on the guy but continuing to cast cantrips every turn, but yeah it requires there to be nobody else who can do anything to the spell caster including the guy who has been hit with heat metal.

I just don't get how you think this is OP. It is literally an average of 9 damage a turn. That is so tiny. What the hell even happened to you? Did somebody heat metal a stick up your ass or something?
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>>76937940
Anon, only the mentally ill are playing this shit anyway.
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>>76945652
>Party will always roll higher on initiative
>Enemies will only ever come from one direction in front of the party
>DM can't start using chase rules where you can only dash for Con mod turns until the guards catch up with their crossbows/whatever if you're just gonna be running
>DM can't place anything in the party's path while they run away like pansies for the 20th time because the DM is too fucking stupid to counteract a boneheaded way to use a 2nd level spell
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>>76945652
Being able to leave with no repercussion from ranged attacks/any ability that slows enemies down, or having to later deal with reinforcement is contrived yes. If they wear armor they are likely intelligent enough creatures to make plans.

Like seriously, how do you have metal armor but no ranged weapons on you or on any of your buddies? How do you get consistently snuck up on despite being combat ready?
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>>76945670

It's fatal over how many fucking turns? Where as yeah if someone gets the Hold Person off and anyone walks into range of that that thing you don't need to concentrate on Hold Person anymore because it's going to fucking die.

And Hold Person is useable on ANY person!! It doesn't have to be a dude in armor!

Or I could use..like...WEB and disable a whole group of enemies! Either of those two spells will be infinitely more useful than doing 9 damage a turn to a guy in armor.

Not to mention it assumes nothing breaks the casters concentration ever.
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>>76945671
Stop posting until you figure out how you'd kill someone with this spell. It's just sad at this point.
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>>76945670
>as a spell that is fatal on its own
CR1 enemies, which would be pretty typical for a party that just got Heat Metal, pretty much all have like 20+ HP and would take on average 3 rounds to to die from Heat Metal and nothing else.
Only things like the standard ass CR1/2 Guard statblock would POSSIBLY die in one turn to Heat Metal since they only have 11 HP, in which case congratulations you literally could've killed the whole room full of them if you used Burning Hands instead.
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>>76945717

I can figure out how to kill someone with that spell but why would I when I could kill them or disable them so much more efficiently with my entire spell book? why would i waste time on heat metal
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>>76945716
Yeah, it's ironic when you consider that web trivializes encounters against armored enemies anyway, prevents them from running away and costs you less resources to beat the encounter (1 2nd level spell to kill everyone instead of just killing 1 after running away for lord knows how long).
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>>76945739
You're not casting Heat Metal on CR1 enemies. That's kind of the point.
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>>76945671
Why not cast heat metal and then cast cantrips every turn. Heat metal recurring damage is a bonus action.
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>>76945662
>Party gets kidnapped
>Bad guys ditch the wheel chair
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>>76945767
Why not just fucking assassinate the captain of the guard and not even give a shit about cantrips? Any named NPC in armor is chump change if you know Heat Metal.
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>>76945764
Okay so you either they're higher CR and take even longer to kill, or you wasted a 2nd level spell slot to kill one chump that'd die if your Barbarian sneezed on them
I fail to see any situation where mediocre, albeit reliable, damage on a single target is worth nerfing a situational use of a spell that's already not exactly versatile.
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>>76945789
I think the problem people are having is they just fight orcs in caves all day and the last time they were in a city was to buy +2 glaives and rapiers
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>>76945805
>>76945805
>>76945805
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>>76945571
thats fucking rich
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>>76945808
Unless you've got Subtle Spell you'd surely be seen or heard casting it, the range isn't that huge.
You might get away with killing the guy but everyone in the room would know exactly who did it.
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>>76945808
It doesn't matter if it takes a full minute to kill the creature if you don't have to fight them while it's happening.
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>>76945831
Meant for >>76945789
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>>76945831
You really think they're going to notice the guy on the busy street who's 60 feet behind them and immediately ducks into the alley after the spell goes off
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>>76945869
The target might not see it but someone could point the guards in the direction where the guy who was just waving a magic wand and mumbling to himself on the streetcorner just went
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>>76945764
So it's a spell that's only really effective against armored targets, except we can't really target CR appropriate enemies for it to be effective- we need to fight against armored opponents of higher CR- meaning they can't be goons. Honestly, taking heat metal is a really big risk on a bard who can't swap their preparations around.

And you still nerfed it, because of some strange scenario where the party can run away and a target might take 20d8 fire damage, instead of just.. having him cut himself free or take advantage of the turns left to him in a way that adds tension to the story?
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>>76945869
Yes, spells are really noticeable. Everyone knows you cast a spell.
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>>76945921
Subtle, so there was no waving or mumbling.
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>>76945947
Subtle Spell metamagic was involved here.
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>>76945950
Well I mentioned that >>76945831 already so congratulations on not reading
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>>76945950
It still has a material component- spells requiring a material component are still noticeable.
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>>76945921
>>76945947
I think the two of you are vastly overestimating how noticeable some guy just talking and wiggling his fingers is on the fucking street. We're not even talking about Subtle Spell shit here, since this is an Artificer/Bard/Druid spell. It doesn't take much to ready a spell in an alley, walk out, release it, and walk back into the alley. This is not going to be an event that sticks out in most people's minds. Most people are not watching every other random person on the street. Heat Metal doesn't even have a showy effect; it's just one guy suddenly screaming 60' over there, and nothing connecting him to the caster.
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>>76946009
Spells ARE noticeable unless stated otherwise (such as by using Subtle Spell) and in a setting with a lot of magic, people are gonna fucking know what someone casting a spell looks and sounds like.
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>>76946009
I think you're underestimating how noticeable magic is.

>It doesn't take much to ready a spell in an alley, walk out, release it,
You can't do this. If the trigger doesn't occur before the start of your next turn, the spell doesn't go off and is lost.

>. Heat Metal doesn't even have a showy effect; it's just one guy suddenly screaming 60' over there, and nothing connecting him to the caster.
What will connect him is your use of magic words and movements in clear view of everyone. It would even break stealth.

Even the subtle spell version is perceptible purely because you need to handle the material component.
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>>76946030
An action being noticeABLE does not necessitate that it will be noticeD. Stop being dense.
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>>76946038
>Even the subtle spell version is perceptible purely because you need to handle the material component.
I agree with you otherwise but in the case of subtle spell, it could just be having their hand on their focus in their pocket since they don't need to do any of the somatic components.

>>76946046
Popping around the corner of a crowded street as per this specific scenario means that someone is gonna be close to you. Might not be someone who wants to bother making a fuss about it afterwards when Grand Lord WearsPlatemailAllDay starts screaming on the other end of the street but that doesn't mean you weren't seen.
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>>76946038
You're wrong about readying spells, wrong about a crowd laser-focusing on someone wiggling fingers and talking, right about breaking stealth (which wasn't brought up), and spinning your wheels about subtle spell because this is not a conern outside of some kind of fucking Sorcerer multiclass.
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>>76946046
If you want to be that way.. the moment the caster declares that he uses heat metal, we roll initiative. Casting heat metal breaks stealth, if he was stealthed before. As he's not hidden, the enemy knows which square he's in.

You can make a ruling that the caster isn't noticed here, but he normally is. An archer that attacks a human in pitch black darkness is also spotted right away to his coordinates. It's how the game works.
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>>76946070
>doesn't mean you weren't seen
That's not in contention here. It's whether or not everyone on the fucking street is going to have their eyes snapped to a man within 60' the moment he utters even one magical intonation, be it the start or end of his spellcast. It's absurd.
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>>76946101
I'm with >>76946081 then. Roll initiative, time for a chase scene.
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>>76946070
>it could just be having their hand on their focus in their pocket since they don't need to do any of the somatic components.

Not so according to Xanathars (p85):

" To be perceptible, the casting of a spell must involve a verbal, somatic, or material component. The form of a material component doesn't matter for the purposes of perception, whether it's an object specified in the spell's description, a component pouch, or a spellcasting focus.

If the need for a spell's components has been removed by a special ability, such as the sorcerer's Subtle Spell feature or the Innate Spellcasting trait possessed by many creatures, the casting of the spell is imperceptible. If an imperceptible casting produces a perceptible effect, it's normally impossible to determine who cast the spell in the absence of other evidence."

You still need a material component, it is considered a noticeable component, and thus you're noticed. They even mention subtle spell being able to make a spell imperceptible if there are no components left.

>>76946075
>You're wrong about readying spells
Read the book
"When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration (explained in chapter 10). If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.
You have until the start of your next turn to use a readied action."

You can't walk while readying, so you're stuck there until your trigger occurs.
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>>76946128
You want to play target identification and positioning strictly by the combat rules, then jump to an abstract skill test for a chase scene? It'd be one thing if you just want to count movement squares, in which case the PC is almost assuredly going to win, but it'd be dumb to demand the more narrative solution to resolve an issue you didn't allow any narrative benefit to.
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>>76946101
It is absurd perhaps (I don't particularily think so, especially considering this also goes for PC's noticing enemy spellcasters..), but it is how the rules work.
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>>76946144
Why would you post rules that don't support what you're saying
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>>76946162
It's not a "more narrative solution", it's a set of rules like any other. Chase rules have their own mechanics, and are there to prevent exactly this grievance you had with the game.

Personally, I'd only go to them if the party decides to flee. Using chase rules when there is a chase just makes sense.
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>>76946209
The existence of rules doesn't mean all rules are narratively equal, come the fuck on.
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>>76946220
The fuck does that even mean
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>it is an unassailable fact that every spell cast is always perceptible by everyone close enough to perceive it in all circumstances so long as it has at least one component
Regardless of what the rules state, This is absolutely retarded
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>>76947748
Play Sorcerer or take the Metamagic feat if you don't like it



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