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How do you keep the gate anon? Who do you keep out?
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>>76044615
I vet all players, and I ban the races that couldn't reasonably interact with Ye Old Fantasy England. Also, I have strict controls on classes. Like, I remember one game where one PC wanted to run a Paladin/Ninja, and I immediately went "No fuck that, that shit's retarded".
There's just a level of bullshit I'm not willing to go for, I'm sorry.
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>>76044630
You sound unhealthy and uptight. I let my players run whatever character they want to build, a Paladin/Ninja sounds cool to me. I've tried playing Paladin/barbarian but that wasn't legal until 5th edition, sucks because I dont play Dungeon and Dragons™ ever since pathfinder.

How do you vet? Sit down in chairs and ask questions?
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>>76044615
I was more lax when I first started playing years ago but now if I don't know you or just don't like you then you simply will not be invited to my game.
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>>76044675
> How do you vet? Sit down in chairs and ask questions?
The classic way. I run a Session 0, where I outline what we're going to be playing, and ask them what kind of characters they're going to be making. Anyone who can't grasp it / doesn't get it I kick before the next week. It saves a lot of grief, and whittles the group down to a core who can actually play the game.
I mean, this is basic stuff. I'm pretty sure literally every DM does something like this.
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>>76044690
Have you ever run games in public? Try picking up games or at least checking them out at your FLGS, some of my best players are FLGS PUGS.
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>frogspam
You never played anything /tg/ related.
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>>76044705
You need core pro players for a game of imagination? Do you never play with new players? Unironically my best role players have been completely new players, they aren't Autistic from past DMs or D&D.
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>>76044728
> You need core pro players for a game of imagination?
Very much so. I have two 'main' gaming groups, and inviting new players comes on a trial basis. I'm very leery when I start a new group, because a lot of people never make the first session; They'll forget to submit a sheet, have no idea how to play, or have other appointments. It's a lot like dating, if you think about it.
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>>76044748
Makes sense. I almost feel an obligation to teach new players rather than expecting them to know or care about D&D™ regulations on how to "role" play.
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>>76044715
I ran at an FLGS once and only once years ago. It was 3.5. I rolled a warforged cleric after waiting 30m to be given the only PHB on hand so I could finish my sheet which then took me all of a few moments. We began the adventure and got into combat. The druid with some retarded animal companion combo would take no less than 30m for each turn and there were 6 people at the table. It literally took 2 hours to get around the table to me again where I simply walked my turn distance to pick something up. I did not get another turn that day.

So no thank you.
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>>76044615
I have a short interview with each player where I basically ask what they are hoping for from the game, what they want to play as and what their earlier experiences are with ttrpgs in general.
From those I choose the people that have come up with the best and most lore friendly character concepts.

I gatekeep people who bring real life politics or identity politics into the game and people who don’t give a shit about the lore of the game or who can’t be social with the other players.
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>>76044777
I might honestly be old and jaded, but I find it a lot harder to deal with complete newbies to the hobby, especially if it's going to be wasted effort. I try to be open-minded about it, but I've run games for people who were very much of the Critical Role school of thought: As in, they don't actually seem to grasp how D&D plays out, that there are tedious moments that involve bookkeeping, with random chance meaning that sometimes you just lose badly.
Those people don't last long when it comes to an actual game, which they find boring.
>>
I ban anyone who starts to autistically rant about realism or how other players shouldnt play nonhumans.
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>>76044805
I kind of find that all-human parties are more cohesive, because you can make nonhumans more mysterious. If no-one is an Elf, meeting Elves is going to be a really unique experience. But if one Elf PC is like "Yo my Elf homies, how's it hanging" it sort of deflates the tension.
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>>76044781
Unironically have you tried not playing D&D? That problem seems more related to new players using a dense combat system.
>>
FACT
frogposters have above average penis sizes
bless you based pepe op
>>
>>76044838
I disagree, but that is an absolutely based assessment that I might consider in an occasional game. I've run all human before on several occasions, but only because those settings had only humans.
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>>76044615
My session 0s are 1 on 1 bits of backstory building and character building with the players. People will throw red flags at me during these parts of the game and it lets me filter them out.
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>>76044615
use a system that isnt DnD
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>>76044849
At the time I was new to the hobby. Over a decade now. My first edition was 4e, but I was learning AD&D at the time of the above. After that I would branch out into Mutants and Masterminds and then Pathfinder. During college I ran AD&D games for friends. After college I ran a 40+ person Pathfinder West Marches discord server, in which I mapped and dynamic lit everything for three 3-hour sessions a week, a 4-6 hour session on saturdays and a 6-8 hour session on sundays. All while working a full time job IRL.

At some point the burden of mapping + needing to generate monsters so quickly became too much, mostly because the other server GMs couldn't not be assholes and wouldn't run any volume of game leaving it all on me. At this point I once again started reading other systems; Savage Worlds, Apocalypse World, FATE, Feng Shui and others. Was trying to find a system that would let me generate creatures extremely fast with interesting abilities without massive stat blocks.

Eventually I did find it; GURPS. It did everything I needed and it pulled me in with it's unique balance of crunch and open-ness. I pitched it to the server, most seemed fine with it since it would cut off HOURS of my prep time each week. When the time came I got nasty messages about how I ruined everything for them.

If they are reading this you know who you are, Kyle and friends.

Now I still play GURPS as my system of choice. I also play with friends only, or friends of friends only. I play Blades in the Dark, Masks and I even have my first 5e campaign coming up with a good friend. But I will never run with PUGs again.
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>>76044615
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>>76044869
Not that anon but taking the old mythological route makes campaigns much more fun. You just need to have this
>all human party
>low magic but when its done describe it as creepy as you can
>meeting fantastical creatures should be something very special
>>
I vet my players by being friends with them and knowing what they're like.
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>>76044615
Everyone. I keep everybody out. My group is people I have known for 20+ years only and anybody else can fuck off.
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Keep out frogposters.
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>>76044615
I play with a group of established friends so if they do something I'm uncomfortable with or I think is dumb I can actually just say "Can we adjust this thing?"

In my experience gatekeeping from public events, filtering some of the red-flag-raising individuals can help, but it is not substitute for allowing people to do their stupid shit and then establishing trust and boundaries. The line is if they are actually socially retarded and a turbo-autist - you cannot deal with people who are unable to talk to you like an adult, and once these people reveal themselves, you must remove them.
>>
I have a simple rule.

"If you would make your words your weapon, I shall make my weapon my words."

Ultima Ratio Regis.
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>>76045687
The banhammer is heavy to wield but an epic weapon of great justice.

It pwneth n00b and troll alike.

For I am the mod, the bearer of the banhammer, and my watch endeth only with the server's death.
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>>76044615
Frogposters.
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>>76045012
Is good for one game, not for all. Eventually people catch up to it. 20 years of "mysterious low magic" and you may want to mix things a bit.
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>>76044630
Paladin rouge is actually effective. Think of an assassin order of the church deal. Alexander Anderson from hellsing was basically that
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>>76044630
>>76044690
>>76044781
>>76044790
>>76044805
>>76044873
>>76045023
>>76045078
>>76045687
None of you are gatekeeping. You're just regulating your table. Unless you make the people you dislike never even try to touch a game again you haven't gatekeep.
The point of gatekeepong is taking people out of the hobby, not your table. If all this people just went and found another group to play with, you have failed at gate keeping.
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>>76045938
>weebshit

kys yourself
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>>76045961
Okay then think Spanish Inquisition you fucking faggot
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>>76045959
>None of you are gatekeeping. You're just regulating your table.
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>>76044803
take your meds grandpa
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>>76046019
Indeed. Every group that ever existed does this, because not all play styles mesh well. You may have a competent player, but he's way into character interaction and combat bores him, or a guy who is extremely fixated on optimization leaving the rest of the party on the dust. Those guys are fine but need groups that focus on the same things as them.
Also, if you're running a low magic game and tell someone "no" because they're looking for a high fantasy one, that's not gate keeping either, that's just been clear and managing expectations.
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>>76044615
Gate's open, I just ask that players go through the main entrance (Read the goddamn rulebook) rather than trying some bullshit where they enter through the sewer (youtube) and emerge from the bathrooms covered in shit.
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>>76044615
I gatekeep weebs who think anything with -boy or -girl at the end of the name is a good race idea. It's not hard to do, they tend to be haughty and unreasonable in most circumstances.

I managed to turn the party against the weeb tiefling uwu devil prettyboy last campaign to the point that the rest of the party cheered me on when my lizardfolk barbarian killed him, ate parts of him and used his spine and skull to make into a new club.
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>>76046249
Never happened.
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>>76044615
The simple act of wargaming at a club rather than a store filters out a lot of human refuse, a hell of a lot of /tg/ would be filtered by this. I also don't play much normshit at all, another barrier.
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>>76044630
>Like, I remember one game where one PC wanted to run a Paladin/Ninja, and I immediately went "No fuck that, that shit's retarded".
Agreed, there is absolutely no way to make a ninja paladin work at all.
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>>76046266
You better believe it
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>>76044630
>bans freakshit races
>doesn't ban freakshit classes
Anon…
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>>76045959
everyone's definition of "gatekeeping" is what table regulations would keep them from playing.

Hell you could even argue that safety tools are a form of gatekeeping against humans capable of normal interactions
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>>76044630
>I ban the races that couldn't reasonably interact with Ye Old Fantasy England.
I'm guessing you also banned any personality trait that could reasonably interact with Ye Old Reality Women too.
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>>76046538
That's a Monk/Paladin though, which makes significantly more sense as both are spiritually focused monastery-dwellers. The Ninja methodology is basically the antithesis to a Paladin's though.
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>>76046731
lern 2 reed
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>>76046854
>what is “fluff is mutable”
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>>76046790
People here are very defensive about kicking players, to the point of a thread about a GM kicking a player he didn't personally liked was full of anons saying he shouldn't have kick him. So because people here take very personally not being allowed on a table, they feel that's what "garekeeping" means.
Is not.
When you gatekeep you keep people out of the HOBBY, you make it clear this is not for them and they shouldn't even come close. You make them feel ashamed of even trying. You make it a chore to enter, if they want to play, they should suffer for it and either adapt to the rules of the gate keeper or give up alltogheter. You make it to the point that they will hate it and never attempt it again. They are OUT of the hobby, and will never bother you again. That's what gate keeping is.
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>>76046829
Adult women are malformed abominations and I kill them wherever I go.
The police will never catch me.
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>>76044615
By having friends with shared interests but also enough respect for each other that we can have differing opinions, that I also play a variety of games with.
You have friends right frogposter? You're not stuck dredging the bottom with randoms because you're also a shitter that other people have to gatekeep out right frogposter?
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>>76046879
*hits bong* yeah dude like everything is nothing dude like you gotta give up your preconceived ideas man like up is down, left is right man...... Just like open your mind, dude.......
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>>76044866
But that above average penis does not belong to them and is in their butts
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>>76046829
>No argument
>Proceeds to seethe
Heheheheh.
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>>76044615
"did you read the rule?"
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>>76044630
>I ban the races that couldn't reasonably interact with Ye Old Fantasy England.
Brit here, that's still a fair few of the races.
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>>76048267
>The wise man of the Norf
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>>76044705
>classic
>session zero
found the newfag
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>>76044615
i run "lgtbbq frindly" dnd for noobs on roll20. i actually run extremely RAW 1e, and make them track everything themselves. No chart for attack, they have to do the math. How long does your torch have left, you weren't tracking it? its out. I mock them mercilessly if they complain or are unable to understand something immediately. Those faggots never play again.
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>>76044615
Easy: I play with my close friends only.
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>>76044723
Post most recent OC fag
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>>76045959
Way to gatekeep gatekeeping, anon. You really took things to the next level.
>>
Anyone that refuses to look up rules on their own for a game they actively want to play and anyone who gets triggered.
I dont mind explaining rules but if you actively ask me to play something there's some responsibility on your end to learn the rules. As for the triggered bit, I don't put heavy themes into my game. The most I've done is have one particular race picked on because in the story, that race backed down when a major catastrophe happened so everyone hated them. I had one player who didn't like I was picking on the race. Her character wasn't that race, she just couldn't handle racism against fantasy characters. I told her to cut her shit or dont come back. She didn't come back and everyone at the table was happier for it.

One last thing, anyone who needs to smoke weed or drink excessively while playing a game can fuck right off.
>>
I don't play.

By not running games, I 100% guarantee that I don't let awful players into the hobby. It's the only way.
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>>76049105
>Why yes I do repeatedly join games tailored for new people and subtly ruin the experience for everyone else in an attempt to put them off of the hobby and foster doubt in the mind of the GM, how can you tell?
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>>76044630
You sound healthy and vigilant
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>>76048703
doing the work of the Lord
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>>76048703
>>76049377
That is not really gatekeeping that is just being a dick.
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>>76044615
I make my players do 20 pushups. It's like miracle, zero that guys can pull it off.
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>>76049105
>>76049183
I'm a dickhead, but you... you are something else entirely
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>>76046948
This. After I killed Princess Diana, I knew I could not be stopped.
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>>76044630
How the fuck can you even play a paladin/ninja? That makes no sense as a PC concept.
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>>76047191
you suck, faggot.
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>>76050275
not as much as your mother
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>>76045959
You can't gatekeep the entire hobby as a private enthusiast. You have to start at your table.
WotC has never gatekept anyone from buying their products, it's just a leftist buzzword feminists use for pity points.
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>>76050296
implying you'd know women
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>>76050341
Said the retarded using buzzwords
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>>76050398
i'm well aware your mother is a tranny
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>>76050341
We should take it as our own and make it a thing
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>>76046430
>a hell of a lot of /tg/ would be filtered by this

As it fucken should
Y’all are awful edgy fucken cunts
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>>76044630
How about just a ninja? If Marco Polo could schlepp all the way across Asia to hang out with Kublai Khan, I don't see why some Son Wukong looking motherfucker couldn't make the same journey in the opposite direction. Perhaps as part of some kind of...Journey to the West, or something.

No but seriously if your setting is supposed to essentially be Ye Olde England then I don't have any real problem with this. Just, y'know, be aware that it's not like nations were islands even then.

Well, England literally was, but you get what I mean.
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>>76044615
BS is a must, MS is preferred. Players have limited control during character creation, including no control over their species, ethnicity, starting wealth, sex, gender, and other circumstances of birth. Those two requirements alone wards off the unintelligent looking to be coddled.
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>>76044777
Checked and wholesomely based
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>>76049183
Now thats based
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>>76044615
I only play with people I've met IRL.
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>>76044615
We play at a pub.
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>>76049513
Brilliant.
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>>76050399
Ok explain to me, as a private citizen, how you will keep gays and brown people from buying WotC products and using them. Because if you can't, then claiming you can gatekeep a hobby is retarded.
>>
>Is this person going to harass women/minorities at the table? Not invited.
>Is this person so fragile that they need constant trigger warnings and might fly off the handle at anything not-pc that the villains or other pcs ever do? Not invited.
>Is this person going to beta orbit the female(s) at the table so hard that it makes them or others uncomfortable? Not invited.
>Is this female going to throw herself so hard at the resident highly attractive but socially dysfunctional nerd to the point where he stops showing up to avoid the awkward flirting? Not invited.
>Is this person going to try and powergame or possibly even cheat anytime the DM isn't looking over their shoulder? Not invited.
>Is this person's idea of fun ruining everyone else's fun? Not invited.
>Is this person going to show up drunk or high, get more drunk or high, and generally be a drag at the table? Not invited.
>Is this person going to stare at their phone the entire time that we are trying to play? Not invited.
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>>76051856
Claiming you can gatekeep this hobby IS retarded. You can't stop people buying tabletop games and playing with friends.
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>>76048657
The term is old enough to drive, the practice is at least as old as commercial internet access. I don't know where you draw the line for 'classic', but it's definitely been a thing for a while.
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>>76044615
There is a thought that stops thought. That is the only thought that ought to be stopped.
>>
Gakekeeping doesn't exist and never has, it's a false flag.
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>>76044615
I refuse to let white people into my group. The quality of my games has skyrocketed ever since.
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>>76052267
I'll take the bait. What specifically has improved significantly with the removal of white people?
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>>76044630
dangerously based
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>>76051556
>BS is a must, MS is preferred
Why are you selecting for dumbasses?
>>
>posting in a frog thread
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>>76052307
ability to jump
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>>76044615
I make potential players submit an application with their character sheet.
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>>76049767
What is the Queen doing on /tg/.
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>>76046156
That is what gatekeeping looks like you larper.
>>
Goddamnit guys, you need to understand that it's not enough to keep the enemy out of your table. You need to keep them out of your hobby period.
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>>76044630
> the races that couldn't reasonably interact with Ye Old Fantasy England.

Im struggling to understand what this means. Only humans? No races outside of traditional folklore? Popular fantasy tropes? If a race exists, no matter how freakshit, it can "interact" with the setting, do you mean fit in?
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>>76046946
Newfag
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>>76044615
>How do you keep the gate anon?
I inform the players they could play anything they want, class or race, and up to two free mutations or powers, along with a free faction related lore skill. Then I check what they created and instantly ban then for either meta-gamering or engaging in undesirablism. Although they "could" create anything, that doesn't mean they CAN play anything. Basically, I've created the most Meta technique for identifying and banning meta-gamers. . . Could I, for instances, keep creating and re-creating a list for every possible build out there? Yes, but undoubtedly they will find some ingenious build which I'm not aware of and break my game. . . Because I am not all knowing. . . BUT if they are given free reign, they will make the most powerful (and most obvious) build. You may not like it, but I've discovered the most meta way to out meta gamers.
>Who do you keep out?
Meta Gamers
Fuds (boomers)
Female Characters
Hillary Supporters (G. Leftists)
and generally characters that don't fit my settings; I'm not going to help someone who's clearly illiterate in a PEN-n-PAPER game, if they truly did read the setting and still submitted the shit that they did then their just too stupid to be corrected.
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>>76049029
Underrated
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>>76054295
>their just too stupid to be corrected.
How ironic.
Grammatical errors aside, why not just give your players a list of races/classes that they CAN play, instead of banning people without telling them why?
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>>76044630
Based
>>76044675
Cringe pedo
>>
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>>76054295
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>>76044615
I play with personal friends and have them all create characters together at session zero to make sure they fit the setting and have interesting dynamics. No randoms, no premade characters. Never once had a problem with D&Drones.
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>>76044838
This is a really good point
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>>76044993
>people who post Pepe are LITERALLY nazis
There is a website for people like you
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>>76047191
BASED. Fuck retarded faggots like that. You are my nigga
>>
>>76044838
Elves are some of the least mysterious and overdone creatures in fantasy.
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>>76054295
Chad
>>76054446
Virgin
>>
>>76054643
t. faglord the fag
>>
>>76044615
Everyone. I have a group I have DM'd for the past 15+ years, and the only people i ever let in from outside was my wife and my buddy's wife.
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>>76049812
>How the fuck can you even play a paladin/ninja? That makes no sense as a PC concept.
I have no idea how that would work.
On the other hand, I once made a former-pirate-turned-paladin once for a pick up game. He wore a breastplate, used a cutlass, and wore his old pirate flag for a cloak.
>>
>>76044615
>How do you keep the gate anon?
Session 0 happens at the local bar/ grill down the street.
We talk the game- what they want to play, what they hope to achieve, their previous game experience, so on and so forth, eat some burgers or whatever, and have a couple rounds.

If they don't drink because they're a pretentious faggot then the party is all full, sorry.
If they don't buy the next round like a bro, then the party is all full, sorry.
If there's something "offputting" about the person themselves- no hygiene, anime shirt, or if they behave in a way that I think will upset the other players, then the party is all full, sorry.
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>>76054425
It's due to the system that I use, and the general culture of the players; limits this extreme would see the games left empty as only 1 book and 2 series (of books) are considered bannable. Everything else has always been fair game, so limiting the game to ONLY the core rulebook will see my game flooded by newbies (a fate worse then death itself). . . But none of that even matters.

The game itself is built around equipment, so your inventory matters. Banning meta-builds is irrelevant if the basic-bitch human can just one punch anything after going on a scavenger hunt. Banning the builds is irrelevant, banning the mindset is my only avenue for relief.

The joy these people get from playing this game is breaking it, adding limits just makes it more challenging for them (i.e. more fun). But this can be taken advantage of though my meta technique; since I know what they considering, I also know they will take the shortest route the get this fun. The shortest route will always be the most optimal meta-build the game has to offer and hence why I go about this method of outing these undesirables.
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>>76054295
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>>76055116
You should use a pic of his butt with dick in it
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>>76049513
You are missing out on the great fat autismo pro role players
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>>76049513
I thought about doing this, but I myself can't do 20 pushups. At least not without pausing for a few seconds.
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>>76054999
why are you giving 3 reddit-spaced paragraphs of text instead of just saying what are you playing?
>Leftists
You don't even have a game do you?
>>
>>76053855
Only the English. Forruns need not apply.
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>>76055460
>muh leftist
>now it's writing advice and not >>76054999
>>
>>76055538
>bringing leftypol out of nowhere
>still not namedropping the game
no (you)
>>
>>76055538
>brings up leftypol out of nowhere
>calls other people election tourists
>>
>>76054295
>>76055538
>hates tr*mp supporters
>hates h*llary supporters
based Bernie Sanders enjoyer
>>
>>76044615
>>76044615
People who feel the need to screech about Jewish/SJW conspiracies with little to no provocation.
>>
>>76055719
you will never be a woman
>>
>>76055460
Don't you know?
No one on /tg/ plays ttg. No one on /v/ plays video games. No one on /tv/ watches movies. No one on /a/ watches anime. No one on /lit/ reads. No one on /co/ reads comics. Therefore I don't have to listen when any of them challenge my opinions on any of those topics.
This mindset is the gayest shit that's spread on 4chan in the last 5 years
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>>76055740
Thanks for the example, friend.
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This was a pretty decent thread for most of the day, then politics because we can't have anything good. Why can't we stay on topic in a thread that is relevant to the board? Fucking faggots.
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>>76055563
>still not namedropping the game
You're arguing with a ghost. Anyway, I'm open about my stances within' the community I play with. I'd just be doxxing myself, so that information stays with me.
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>>76055785
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>>76055740
You will never be a man
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>>76055788
I really don't want to come off too assholish because at this point you've honestly piqued my interest.So I'm guessing it's a very small community then?
>>
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>>76055785
This thread was never good and never was going to be good.
>>
>>76055755
And that's a good thing.
>>
>>76055785
>>76055824
everything is like this. you're either lucky and have a local/longstanding community which doesn't behave like this, or you're trapped in a perpetual ideological battlefield
>>
>>76055740
Ah, yes, and people who randomly bring trannies into everything. Thanks for the reminder.
>>
>>76044615

I keep you out, anon.
You just wouldn't make it in my group.
>>
>>76055785
>pls no tread derail heckerino
Where do you think you are? This is post 2016 /tg/ where in every board we must post on how leftists,niggers,women and jews are ruining the hobby by bringing politics into it.
>>
>>76056000
Confirmed by the digits
>>76056001
>board
freudian slip
>>
>>76056023
>>board
>freudian slip
lmao this fucking retard got 'board' and 'sub' mixed up
>>
>>76055376
You're allowed to pause in the rest position. That's even a thing in military tests and whoever is doing pushup tests for a tabletop game is going to love the military so you're all good
>>
I just don’t let my buds bring their girlfriends.
>>
>>76044615
I look at my players skin color
>>
>>76056095
nope the freudian slip was referred to how I wanted to write every "thread" but instead I wrote every "board" because I was thinking about how much has changed on every board in the span of 4 years so I accidentally wrote board. Dunno why the first thing that came to your mind is r*ddit... ah nevermind it's because you reside there and came here to copy our shit and repost it there so you can get le sick epic upboats
>>
>>76055848
Correct, the games quite old and some players have a decade of experience with it. Unfortunately, some have gone so far with it. . . that the only enjoyment left for them is power gaming. The opinions here are equal to the option they have of me and my process. I'm either the second coming, God made man, with people fighting for the honor of dying on my hill... or I'm literally Hitler, son of the anti-christ, who exists only to ruin this game. It wouldn't take much to find me, regrettably.
>>
>>76044615
Openly mock mainstream retards, shit on D&D, only share cool games with some friends who don't vapidly consume, retaliate against corporate culture, join in raids and hacks against bloated megacorps, await assassination by megacorp death squads
>>
>>76046858
The implication here is that he would have allowed a straight-class ninja, the 2nd weebist class possible. Lern yourself
>>
>>76044615
I look at their facebooks, if I see that they support extremist movements and the like I just tell them I decided to go in a different direction. Learned my lesson after a player said they couldn't make it to a session because they had to go "protest". Most of the time it is easy, a lot of them have that silly black profile picture.
>>
>>76056377
you will never be a woman
>>
>>76056384
Good I am glad, who the hell wants to be a woman?
>>
>>76044615
I only play with my friends so there is no need to gatekeep.
>>
>>76056377
Always remove the wingcuck

>>76056304
Based cyberpunk schizo
>>
>>76056402
You.
>>
>>76056503
Kay
>>
>hobby exists
>hobby primarily consists of 'based' individuals who supposedly want to keep their hobby clean of 'normie' taint'.
>hobby company begins to lose money because they are usually shit at marketing
>shit fan base doesn't help
>Eventually, particular hobby ends with a pathetic whimper as the company can no longer financially support it, and drogs either move on or make a 'SO WHAT WHEN WRONG?' thread on /tg/

So what will be the next 'What went wrong' thread?
>>
>>76056556
So, the solution is for based fans to go GANG GANG?
>>
>>76044615
Honestly, I don't.
There's no need, since D&D's always been shit and the more niche games tend to automatically filter anyone who doesn't actually care about tabletop RPGs.
What was the last time you had a shit group full of SJWs and normies play Lancer? Or Ops and Tactics? Or GURPS?
Let the normies take D&D. It's shit anyway, what're we missing out on? For as long as this hobby exists, indie devs will keep coming out with good, non-pozzed, systems for the real players to use.
>>
>>76044615
If a short haired girl wants to play a tiefling, I tell her to leave my table.
>>
>>76056556
>hobby
>the company
>a whole hobby
>THE company
stop internalising corporate language from annual reports
>>
>>76056749
Gimme some non-pozzed companies then? Like on par with GDW in the '80s.
>>
>>76046858
Paladin, ranger, barbarian, warlord, druid, monk, crusader, shaman, bard, ninja, assassin, sorcerer, witch, warlock, magus, psionicist, artificer, and gunslinger are all special snowflake bait.
>>
No frogposters allowed, they have literally never contributed anything of worth to anyone.
>>
>>76057144
Indie games or systems that encourage homebrew.
Games either made by small groups of people or with the expressed purpose of being modifed, such as Lancer, Maid, GURPS, FATE, and Genesys
>>
>>76053595

A shame they can't swim
>>
>>76056749
>>76057144
>>76057370
>I don't play tabletop, I just say stupid things in /tg/
>>
>>76057370
>Maid
>Fate
>to name a few
Those are the opposite, the creators are knee deep in the pozz. They're heretics, not friends
>>
>>76057503
>t. non-player

>>76057144
Classic Twilight 2000 (especially 2.2) is the shit, good stuff.
>>
>>76057525
t. faggot who is projecting
>>
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>>76046177
Some try to enter the backdoor and crawl up your ass
>>
>>76057144
>GDW in the '80s
The Mongoose's paw curls a finger
You get modernised versions of old GDW stuff that aren't particularly Current Year Politics, but they're completely lacking any proof-reading or playtesting
>>
>>76057144
There is no shame in using older systems, or even better creating your own system
>>76055824
This deserves some fuckin attention, I have monitored activity that stinks something like this on /tg/ i nmultiple occasions. It usually spawns on easiest to formulate threads liek filename stuff or simply posts like "what went wrong".
>>
>>76044748
i'd like to join a group, im a newbie, i might forget a class feature but if you yell at me ill fix it. oh and i wont make some garbage that doesnt fit a setting. like a good paliden when the entire party is evil or some bs like that. no meme races either, what edition?
>>
>>76057503
Running two games at the moment, both of them using a very heavily modified version of Genesys.
Participating in three games, one of which is a Savage Worlds game, another uses a completely custom system written by a couple of my friends, and the third also uses heavily modified Genesys. All of these games are totally free of liberal bullshit because I don't run games with degenerates and attention whores.
>>76057509
Who gives a shit about devs? Separate a work from its creator, retard. If some retarded SJW ended up painting a high-quality apolitical landscape, I wouldn't give a shit about who painted it as long as the painting itself stayed away from bullshit identity politics. All that matters is that the game itself is not corrupted with bad mechanics or overpriced content.
>>
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>>76046946
Literally this.
>>
>>76057629
Good job running two game with just yourself, retard
>>
>>76057629
The funny thing is the more devs try to import their headscratching points into their setting/systems, the more weirder they start to seem. Eclipse phase devs are a good example.
>>
>>76052267
Nice! I do the same with blacks. High five?
>>
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>>76048703
This is Gatekeeping. This is Feckless. Also based.
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>>76051856
You can gate keep a Community website for the hobby. You could even gate keep a local face to face Community. You can extend this Gatekeeping concept to fairly wide spread influence
>>
>>76058124
I remember eating lemons like that. I should do that, they are delicious like that.
>>
>>76058124
You could try that if you have no idea how the hobby works and have no brain.
>>
>>76057627
5E (1 group) and Pathfinder (the other).
There's been no interest in anything else.
>>
>>76044615
just put that your game supports inclusivity, no /tg/ retard will come and you can have a good time
>>
>>76049436
>t. gatekept
>>
>>76044615
I gatekeep a lot surprisingly, to me.

As for who I keep out:

SJW's and /pol/ shitters.

Anyone who uses freakshit unironically.

Retarded edgelords.

Contrarians who think making a character that who would be the first to go (an evil character in a good aligned party and vice versa) when a party schism probably comes up is a good thing.

Players who do un-honest shit like playing CN as CE because they don't want the social drawbacks of playing an evil character. This has made me respect players who play characters with evil alignments.
>>
>>76058484
t. retard who does not know you can't really gatekeep tabletop
>>
>>76058562
>t. gatekept and mad about it
>>
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Another garbage frog thread
>>
>>76057503
>I don't play tabletop, I just say stupid things in /tg/
>>
>>76058744
t. retarded and liking it.
>>
>>76058905
t. faggot who found himself
>>
>>76056377
Based
>>
>>76056948
This
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>>76054438
>Cringe pedo
>>
>>76058744
>>76058484
KEK, that guy got asskept.
>>
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>>76058552
>claims to gatekeep
>plays The Containment GameTM
newfag, we are trying to have some good convo about games here, please refrain from posting for another decade
>>
>>76059192
All the ass is you and you can keep it
>>
>>76058967
Plenty of people play indie games, they just don't play with you.
>>
>>76059668
>Plenty of people play indie games
Yes, and they are too busy playing to try to gatekeep the hobby. Something you would know if you played.
>>
>>76059936
Huh? Is this some galaxy brain "you can't come back at me if my post is completelyt incoherent" strategy?
>>
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OP here.
>>76045959
This.
>>76046156
Correct.
>>76046177
I have had the best new players when they don't read the book. The players who do have this Ignorant debate concept ingrained and idk where reading the book gives it.
>>76046249
All of the Pathfinder catboys and lizardgirls are named something off like tencko or some other worthless mouthful. Any fury bullshit is the same though. Also scaly fags catch the same rope.
>>76046266
Checked. No u.
>>76046430
This is a form of Gatekeeping. But having club is based, making a club list and bein an elite asshole makes you an, asshole. But clubs work, work like a Discord group in a way.
>>76047145
Absolutely based. I have personal experience where I kinda treat everyone that way, but I understand limiting yourself from doing such. Most folk are Feckless dishonest scum, I still love em.
>>76048703
Dangerously based. Too feckless.
>>76048799
Checked. I might suggest branching out for perspective of Different play styles.
>>76049183
Kek.
>>76049513
Based.
>>76051927
I like this format.
>>76052267
I refuse to let black men play. Black queens put out so they can stay.
>>76053647
Do you have a copy/reference for this resume?
>>76053794
>We don't just fight in the trenches
>We fight in their homes
> We fight their children
>Manipulate and abuse their minds for our perverted world
Gross.
>>76054295
I appreciate this meta trick. I had a fairly serious problem with power gamers. I ended up just encouraging them to break the Pathfinder system as much as their hearts were able. The Min Max players created absolute abominations, but I just "lvl adjusted" my monsters and bosses to be able of Producing a legitimate challenge. The RP fags got caught up with plots and story, and felt content about the power lvl Differences. Except one Meta RP fag who was a bitch at RP n Min Maxing.
>>
>>76044615
The "normies" are just a distraction every time. In the end, it's corporations and various groups that are at fault for scooping up the normans who mindlessly shill. Ignore the consumer-bots and target the evil companies responsible in the first place. That's how you gatekeep, attack those who make the problem happen, take something away from greedy megacorp hands and make it your's! Whether DIY revolution or some other means of revolution against the Suits.
>>
I don't play shit games.
>>
>>76060089

>normans

t. seething Anglo-Saxon
>>
>>76060111
The Anglo-Saxons didn't properly gatekeep against invasive companies, see where it got them?
>>
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>>76059125
This.
>>76054484
I myself love to have a contrasting party dynamic. Having Warlocks and Paladins act totally chill because looting shiny rocks from a dusty goblin hole is "priority" above Cosmic Holy Wars.
>>76054701
You should never ERP with another man's wife anon.
>>76054976
I was planning to talk shit, but after reading this entire post I've decided I can't disagree.
>>76054999
Checked.
>>76055719
You'd be surprised just how much provocation there is. I got a Nazi memorabilia collecting friend, and he has valid points whenever you hear him out. But I'm not some kinda Anti-semite being a Jewish half Jew myself.
>>76056000
Checked, Probably wouldn't want to be. Would also be your best player ever. Sucks for you, hopefully I never steal your group. I've stolen tranny groups from cunts before. I can roll for wack and have fun while doing it.
>>76056166
Color based Racism is Ignorant.
>>76056304
Based.
>>76056377
Checked and based.
>>76056463
A lot of people say this, but this is the most Gate Kept gate of all. You literally gate keep the entire world anon.
>>76056749
This is fairly accurate though is was a communist who showed me alternative systems to D&D. I assume some Trannies do play those niche games, at least sometimes. Every game filled with trannies that I played with didn't use D&D.
>>76056761
Explain. Emo "lesbians" ride better than most.
>>76057626
Using older systems is a lot of fun and brings understanding to the origins of the rules. Using a system you Built yourself is a Chad move.
>>76058274
Exactly, but also wrong.
>>76058347
/tg/ posters literally never play games so I don't understand the point of this gate?
>>
>>76060064
>making a club list and bein an elite asshole makes you an, asshole
Who said I did? The sort of autist that only ever plays ITC games at the store because it involves the least amount of human interaction to organise is immediately filtered by the club concept.
>>
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>>76060741
>>
>>76056948
You can still play games from bankrupt companies
>>
>>76044866
Yes but is has erectile disfunction/flaccidity problems
>>
>>76060834
You said you said. And I said such would work and is reasonable.
>>76060101
Well what games do you play? What Gate Keeping do you do?
>>
>>76060975
Did you wrongquote?
>>
>>76044615
>Who do you keep out?
Frogposters. GTFO.
>>
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>>76061578
>There are faggots who Gate Keep a frog with dedicated effort.
Rent free, and based Self Call out. It's important you are honest with your Gate Keeping, especially when everyone can clearly see it. Thankfully I can post whatever I want and enjoy whatever /tg/ topic I desire without any regard for the Opinion of Autistic Frog Hunting Gate Keepers.
>>
>>76061118
>You said you said. And I said such would work and is reasonable.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
>>
>>76060064
>I have had the best new players when they don't read the book. The players who do have this Ignorant debate concept ingrained and idk where reading the book gives it.
What does this mean? Do they try to rules lawyer with the other noobs?
>>
>>76044615
Everyone not worthy of me
>>
>>76061738
Yeah exactly.
>>76062024
That, and worse I've had noobs stop entire combats to rule lawyer against an experienced DM. The one particular cunt didn't know how to fucking read and would quote random shit that can't be found in the written text, because it isn't written in the rule book text.
>>76062042
What's the meaning of life though?
>>
>>76044615
I only run games for friends and acquaintances and I’ve only had two problem players ever, one of whom removed himself so no problem.
Gatekeeping is easy and unnecessary when you’re not a politics obsessive who can only play with people who agree on everything.
I’ve played with right wingers and left wingers, straight people and every one of L G B and T.
I’ll never understand why people apparently feel the need to bring political shit up at the table. Never happened to me at least.
>>
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this is epic bros
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>>76062446
Nice Pepe collection, I don't have all those. I don't know how to navigate reddit, could you go get those and post them for me? Unironically.
>>
>>76045961
Well you are clearly familiar with it too, weeb.
>>
I introduce women, homosexuals, and minorities to RPGs.
>>
>>76044615
I host my first session to time with Tucker Carlson's show and leave it playing quietly in the living room. (not the same room we game in but they have to walk through it to get there) I also have the occasional "right wing" (not full /pol/, just normie friendly stuff) piece of decor (ie there's a random MAGA hat sitting on a hat rack where it won't be missed, but I don't tryhard and actually wear it to the session), also people can see the Gadsden flag in my bedroom, and among the gaming magazines on the coffee table there's an NRA newsletter.

I never actually TALK about politics with the players, but generally the people who have a problem will either:
1) be made uncomfortable enough that they will just quietly not come back
2) complain and sperg out at which point I will let them know they are not invited back
>>
I tend to keep /pol/ degenerates out of my games, and that's mostly it.
>>
>>76044615
>Who do you keep out?
Alt-rite frogposters.
>>
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>>76062686
Unironically Same
>>
Most of you guys are massively autistic
>>
>>76044723
Cringe
>>
>>76044615
Most hobbies these days are impossible to gatekeep. The companies that make them generally don't want gatekeeping because they want to sell shit. The internet makes finding others to play with a lot easier on top of that. In the past, when game communities were smaller, based locally, and more insular, people could effectively gatekeep by coming to a consensus to keep certain people out, but not so much anymore.

The best you can do is ensure the quality of the people you play with personally. As for that, it just depends on the game.
>>
>>76055376
You ever consider you just have bad push-up technique?
>>
>>76044615
I play within a freeform community so just having dice at all is enough of a filter
>>
>>76055328
Lose weight
>>
>>76065743
>The companies that make them generally don't want gatekeeping because they want to sell shit.
We just spent the last 4 + years watching global Corporations blacklist large sect of population. Cancel Culture certainly Repercussive to anyone non-adherent to "Social Authority" (imposed by Corporations). Giga Corporations make more profit than they know what to do with, they don't even care about theft. "Our whole stack could be robbed and we'd still be within profit margins". Why wouldn't a Corporation manipulate Society to impact it's value regardless of blacklisted population.
>>
>>76044615
Women
>>
>>76070926
Lucky for you they don't want anything to do with you and your smells so they find someone with a group.
>>
>>76071164
Please don bully anon or being Transexual. They smell just as good or bad as anyone else, they shower too.
>>76070488
Checked. Imagine thinking Corporations wouldn't Gatekeep.
>>
>>76070488
Can you give an example of this specifically in the /tg/ realm? What I've noticed is that they put out vague statements about being pro whatever social justice cause of the day is in an effort to attract those types, but that they don't explicitly go after their core audience except to ignore them in favor of trying to win the new audience. Take the statement games workshop put out - they deleted it real fast.

To me, this is different from gatekeeping - it's more of a cynical attempt to latch onto some hip cause to increase their sales because they figure they've already got their original audience locked up and hooked. I've seen some people get canceled individually, but it's usually a sacrifice to the social justice mob. It's sorta the opposite of gatekeeping to me though because they think they're gaining or keeping a wider audience by getting rid of these people rather than keeping the normies out to make sure the core audience stays happy.
>>
>>76067703
My pushup technique is flawless. I just have no muscle mass and a weak heart.
>>
>>76071846
Include more cardio and eat meat with less feat. Don't forget your vegetables and dairy.
>>
>>76044615
literally impossible
>>
>>76075638
I just need to get off my skinny ass and actually do some exercise on a regular basis.
>>
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>>76044630
I can't believe I'm saying this but... have you tried just not playing D&D if you are going to do that anyway?
>>
>>76071754
Hypothetical, what if wotc could ban anyone who spoke against their product ™. That'd be spooky, would literally murder any Community. Corporation gate keeping, scary gross if true.
>>
>>76044866
Based and redpilled
>>
>>76044675
can't speak for him, but I usually demand my players a CV and three written references.
>>
>>76058280
hmm, i could learn pathfinder but i know 5e a bit.

depends on the screaming you want to do
>>
>>76044630
based. I am so sick of these fucking niggers who think they are allowed to play whatever they want in my campaigns. No, your shitty tengu is not allowed. No, your ratfolk is not allowed. No, your catfolk is not allowed. No, your tiefling is not allowed: that is a literal fucking demonspawn. Why the fuck would that be allowed in any campaign, let alone this one? No, you cannot play a drow. You will be shot on sight on the surface. Half these fuckers don't even read Drizz't so they have no excuse for wanting to play a drow, besides "lol it's different." Fuck different. Here's the thing: your race is the most boring fucking part of your character. Unless you do something interesting with it (which 90% of these stupid cunts don't do), then you are just weighing down the game. When you have a thri-keen, some homebrew furry shit, a tiefling and some fuck who wants to play kender, you know what? Fuck this. I made a setting that actually feels somewhat like the real world because it doesn't have 90 different races running around like it's motherfucking Mos Eisley cantina. It's not my fault that YOU are a bad roleplayer who can't be satisfied playing something out of the core book. Create an interesting character, and you can play as a human for the rest of your RPG career. I had groups that were entirely human yet they had personalities that seemed like real people. But no, no one wants to lump in 30 homebrew races plus 60 official wizards of the coast crapshit races they pump out like chocolate because they know it will keep people entertained and requires zero effort on their part. No DM worth shit wants to spend hours and hours putting that in his world. Play. A. Fucking. Human. You need to EARN the privilege of playing another race, by proving you can competently play a normal character first. You don't get the big boy toys until your prove you can be responsible for them.
>>76044675
cringe
>>
>>76050341
>You can't gatekeep the entire hobby as a private enthusiast.
Yes you can, it's called Lure and Cure.
>>
>>76078553
tl;dr I am nogame moron with bad B.O
>>
>>76044748
>I'm very leery when I start a new group, because a lot of people never make the first session
I've tried a few times to branch off from boardgames to pen and paper, but every group turns flakey within the first session or two. People in general seem more flakey these days. With board games too, but less so. Maybe folks are more willing to see those through since most of them last a weekend or two before they're over.
>>
>>76044615
Standards at my table, mostly.
>>
>>76078591
If an organized group infiltrate the moderation of a most every hobby public Community's moderation, they could maintain a fairly effective Gate and ensure it well kept.
>>
>>76044615
I mostly play with folks I've known for decades. Would PC with acquaintances or if a workmate wanted to run a short or something but not GM.

Main thing is folks who can stick to a schedule and actually show up on time every second week enough weeks in a row to finish at least one story arc, and don't act too disruptive at table. If you are a gig artist or some shit and bail 2 weeks in 3 we should do some other activity.

If was going to start a new group I would ask people I had played with before and liked their playstyle.

If a PC wanted their significant other to play also at group start, or some rando who they say is cool, would probably do a one off first or some story arc with an easy early exit strategy.
>>
>>76051673
underrated post. this actually is a good idea for filtering people who can't behave like civil adults
>>
>>76045959
I don't expect the people around me to be mentally weak enough to be driven from an entire hobby by my actions alone. I don't (consciously) gatekeep because the idea that I could is alien to me.
>>
>>76078769
I play in 2 groups and DM for a third

>>76078994
this too
>>
>>76079006
I had a group playing in an FLGS get kicked out. We played at a pub next door for two weeks before we got kicked out. We settled on running games at the DMs apartment. I found his dirty Fleshlight.
>>
>>76070488

>We just spent the last 4 + years watching global Corporations blacklist large sect of population

Name me one global corporation that refuses to sell goods to any particular individual because of their political affiliation.
Remember that only a subset of the population spends a lot of time on the Internet, and even then you only a miniscule proportion of those when you're on social media, and even *then* only the weirdest and loudest will stand out enough for you to see them more than once.
People you see being shouted at on Twitter aren't "a large sect of the population".
>>
>>76078553
>t.compulsive kobold/goblinfag recently told "no"
>>
>>76079305
Nice! Three games, no players.
>>
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>>76079341
>>>/pol/
I didn't bring my /pol/ sauce and won't. Keep it /tg/ faggot.
>>
>>76079518
All you had to do was provide one example. That doesn't turn the thread into /pol/ anymore than you already have. Is it really so hard to name one corporation that you have to go dig up sauce? You probably shouldn't regurgitate shit you're clueless about in the first place then.
>>
>>76079651
What kinda Autistic retard keeps folders of convenient /pol/ sauce? A /pol/yard that is who. You Autistic /pol/ bait tards need to fuck off back to >>>/pol/ where you can't sauce CNN and FOX all day.
>>
>>76079651
Just because your the one who doesn't know what is being talked about doesn't mean anyone but you is clueless. And any retard that needs /pol/ examples for his perspective is a dense Dumbass.
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>>76044615
My local library has this public D&D group, but we started having a bunch of college xers show up. We divided the xers and separated them into our groups. Each group individual with an organized effort on the DMs part would Subtle bully the players, firing them to commit character death setting them up for failure. They didn't leave though, so we had to double down by adding a new rule "anyone who has a character death must wait till next session" so we all killed off the xers early and just played without them. Some of them would still show up weekly to play but our games never ended. We once had to continue an ended Campaign so we could start a new one when the Xer wasn't there. We aren't bad people, we just set up others for failure by maintaining control of our community moderation.
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>>76079922
One online community I play on has that 'There's a queue, if you die you end up at the back of the queue'. It's very effective, because it means they're on the waiting list for MONTHS.
More, there are only so many queues you can be on. So basically it means undesirables won't actually get to play.
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>>76079811
Who the fuck said anything about having a folder or saucing news articles? If you can't provide one single example off the top of your head without having to look it up in your autistic sauce folder, it's not a topic you should be discussing as though it were fact. All it would have taken is a one sentence response, and that would've been the end of it. Or hell, ignoring me would've been the end of it. Now, instead, it's dragged on for several posts and turned into back and forth /pol/ flamebaiting which we're each equally responsible for shitting up the thread with. Stop spouting bullshit, or just don't respond. It's not hard. God damn.
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Enthusiastically ask them if they watch Critical Role, and if they say yes show them the fucking door.
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>>76078553
u seem upset
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>>76045959
the hobby ends at my table. none of you exist
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>>76044615
no one gets into my game unless they are directly a friend of mine, or a friend of a friend already in my game.

more distantly I request to see a twitter to get a vague idea of how they behave in public and if I see somehting like a pepe they can't participate.
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>>76080282
>Needs the Opinion of Twitter for Validation
Hmmm. Corporations certainly don't impact gate keeping on globally popular hobby.
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>>76080309
I mean it's not like I can gauge the person based on a single conversation and twitter is about as good as any.
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>>76044615
Keep out Nazis and racists. Everyone else is welcome.
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>>76080317
You would and will always be able to learn far more speaking face to face. Unless you host some disassociative or social handicap.
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>>76080384
I primarily host games over the internet.
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>>76080390
A social handicap. My point proven.
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>>76080480
okay boomer.
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>>76080483
I'm glad our wholesome conversation concluded in understanding. It's important you are self aware of your own disadvantages and act to adapt. How could you ever hope to have quality judgement if you can't even properly judge yourself.
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>>76080504
Excuse me, that was supposed to be a happy reaction no and upset one.
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>>76080384
>You would and will always be able to learn far more speaking face to face
Research shows that people make more accurate judgements about others when shown data without the face to face, compared to the data with the face to face.
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>>76080559
Research and math prove the earth is flat. Not argument, just saying.
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>>76080605
You're either genuinely retarded or the worst shitposter I've ever seen. Either way, I feel sorry for you.
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>>76080612
>List of insults
>Being a Faggot
No u
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>>76080650
It's not an insult anon, I really do feel sorry for you.
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>76080703
>I dont like you
Ok. Cool. do you tell your friends about it? I'm glad to hear your being a massive faggot keeps the gate.
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>>76044615
I ban people who make gatekeeping threads on Senegalese Cloud Watching forums
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I don't have a gate to keep but I do have a comfy RPG I made myself and only play with comfy frens that aren't neurotic or care about status culture and moral fagging. My group founded a smol city for themselves on the southern shores of the not!Mediterranean. I look forward to their adventures in Libya(ancient north africa).
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>>76044615
I keep out people who have serious political disagreements with me and usually want nothing to do with them. Most other problems can be worked around.
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>>76044615
Don't discuss 40k with people who only watch lore videos.
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>>76080960
Golly gee, that's me. Is love to play the game, but I'm a poor fag. The lore and setting are really good and I've intention to run some campaigns using 40k. Would discussing 40k with someone who has only played TtRPG be acceptable?
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>>76044615
I make sure they aren’t weird incels or other grimy internet types, make sure they won’t hassle my friends for some dumb reason, make sure they’re willing to learn the system well enough to play their PC, and make sure they don’t smell. Then they join my game.
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>>76081466
>I only play with people who
>Have sex
>Submit
>Read™
>Clean
Absolutely based.
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>>76080908
ngl that sounds comfy anon. Hope your game continues wonderfully
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>>76044615
When pugging I turn down game requests from people with unpainted armies, there are obvious exceptions and caveats to that.
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>>76082000
Checked. Gray fags can fuck off.
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>>76081576
Thanks anon, may you be blessed to have comfy games with comfy frens
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>>76048703
You sound like you are very LGBT friendly, considering how much of a faggot you are.
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I do it by never showering and screaching like an autistic retard outside of gamestores until the police are called. This also gatekeeps women from having sex with someone as based me.
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>>76082958
What’s with guys not having basic hygiene?
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>>76048703
Based



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